The Ringer NFL Show - Dream Offseason Moves | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: May 10, 2019

How to interpret the rumors and commentary of the NFL offseason (1:45), a brief look at Doug Baldwin’s career following his release in Seattle (13:15), and a list of dream offseason trades and acquisitions around the league (17:00). Hosts: Robert Mays and Kevin Clark Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you ever stopped at a railway crossing and the signals are flashing and you don't see the train or it looks like it's moving slow and you're thinking maybe you could get across the track before the train comes. Think about this. In 2018 alone, 270 people were killed at railroad crossings. 270. Stop. Trains can't. To the ring around a felt show. I'm Robert Mays. Joined as always by Kevin Clark. Kevin, how you doing, bud? I'm doing okay. Rattled by the news to Telvin Smith, the very good young Jaguars lineback not playing in 2019. Seems to be taking a year off to get his world in order, as he says.

Wish him all the best, but certainly shocking news in the NFL on May 9th. Yeah, it was very surprising. Not much going on on May 9th. This affects our show in part because we're going to do a bunch of moves, kind of dream moves that could be remaining for teams this offseason. Trades they should make kind of the last few remaining ways they can fill some holes on their rosters. And Telvis Smith was going to be one of your trades. So we've had to do a little bit.

bit of improvising on the move here. There were trade rumors that Jaguars had not signed to an extension yet. He was going, he was in line to make some money. He had sort of been off 2018, but, but I think I read a couple months ago that PFF had him as one of their breakout candidates for 2019. And I start to think that, you know, it reminds me a little bit of the Jason World situation four years ago. Jason World's never came back to football. But he was a guy who was in line for money and he's decided he needed to get his world in order to use Kelvin Smith's phrase and he never came back. So it's really interesting. We wish Ellis Smith the best and hope he's back in 2020. So we're going to get into some of those fake

trades. We're going to start though by kind of talking about the way to think about the offseason. You wrote about this a few years ago. I wrote about it in a slightly different way, which was using all of the rumors and kind of pumped up commentary about each individual player. fake. Everything is fake. If you've lived through five years of Ryan Tannahill is about to break out, it's all Ryan Tannahill. You know, it's not going to have Marcus Marriota. It's funny. It's very funny to me. The Ryan Tannahill and Marcus Marrota are on the same team because they get the same he's ready to break out articles written about them every single offseason. Yeah, you wrote about all of the rumors, not rumors necessarily, but all of the observations that. The tropes. The tropes. The tropes. But even specific.

to Ryan Tannahill, the observations his teammates made about his leadership. Leadership is ready to go. When I wrote the fake thing, I think it was for Grantland. It was years and years ago. It was all Ryan Tannahill. So Ryan Tannahill is always the guy. It's always based on Ryan Tannahill. Chris Ryan had the idea and unfortunately missed our window probably,

I'm sure you remember this, you were in the room when he pitched it, that we do a fake Ken Burns documentary on just all of the legendary stories of Ryan Tannahill's off-season leadership. His leadership ends on September 1st every year. So let's get into some of these. Where I felt was kind of appropriate to start is with something that happened very recently. And it's something we see every year. You saw that clip of Aaron Rogers talking about the new plays and the new offense.

And how Aaron Rogers is smart enough to understand this and everyone else should be too. When you're watching the teach tape of a new offense, all it is is the best plays. So when you're thinking about the Packers' new offense, it's that McVeigh, vays, Shanahan, outside zone play action system. So the plays you're going to be watching are like Julio Jones 80-yard touchdowns and strikes to Brandon Cooks from last year.

Like that's the stuff that you're going to be doing. So yeah, every offense looks beautiful when you're teaching it to people because it's all the times the plays worked. But nothing is ever as good as it seems. And I think that is the most important thing to remember. It's an offensive sizzle reel. That's exactly right.

I mean, it's the perfect way to do all of this stuff. They call them teach tapes. I mean, that's literally what they are. And it's every single ideal version of the plays. So like everything this time of year, nothing about that is ever as good as it seems. What are some of your other favorite tropes or conversations

or things to avoid in your mind? Let's go strictly with the tape, okay? Because I think that's a really funny off-season trope because I remember this happened to Matthew Stafford, where, oh, he's going on a vacation, but he's bringing his iPad. He brought his iPad on vacation. And one of the things that I think... It's just loaded with Netflix shows.

It's just loaded. Yeah, it's Ozark Season 2. And I just kind of think it's very funny to me when we get into the offseason. It's, oh, this person is doing this and they used to not do this. Because the other way to look at it is they went on vacation or their honeymoon or whatever and didn't bring film before, which is this is an extremely hard league to play. Extremely hard. You know, the story is about Peyton Manning. A lot of times, and Robert, I'm sure.

you've had this before, you hear a story you think makes the player you're profiling or talking about sounding a complete lunatic. And then you share it with somebody else and they can name five other players who did that. You know what I mean? I think Peyton Manning, those stories are legendary. Oh, he's looking at

film in the hot tub. Well, so was Philip Rivers. So was Carson Palmer. Carson Palmer's doing VR. Fine. So was probably Ryan Tano for God's sakes. I think James Winston does. And so I think that stories about work ethic in the offseason are always overrated, especially when it comes to tape.

Everybody's looking at tape, dude. Everybody, this is a hard league. You're not in the NFL unless you're looking at tape. And so I think that the so-and-so is looking at tape trope is extremely overrated, especially this time of year. Especially for quarterbacks, too. That's the positional norm. There's some guys who go above and beyond.

I remember Eric Weddell told me a story once about Rivers, where just on the team playing on the way home, he's already just queuing up the next week's games. But that's everybody. Yeah. I mean, like, that's every, that is the eighth paragraph in every single story about a quarterback. It's, oh, man, I'm looking at third downs.

I'm looking at third downs right now. I mean, I heard the story. I remember this blew my mind that Peyton Manning was looking at the 0-1 Kurt Warner Super Bowl, the Kurt Warner Patriot Super Bowl, before the AFC championship came against Patriots because he was worried that they were going to do some of those same pressures, stuff like that. And then the more you're around, the more you realize this always happens.

A lot of quarterbacks do this. There are 32 of these jobs. Ten of these guys are good. There's a reason that they have separated themselves. And a lot of times if someone is, and this goes for being in the best shape of your life, too. If the story now is you're doing something, it was really bad that you weren't doing it before. Yes. So, okay, a few of the things that you should pay attention to, though, which I think is important to know.

I think that you wrote about this when you did, the reps, matter. If a guy is working out with a guy is working out with the first team. If he's taking reps with the first team, that stuff matters. It's because those reps are very important and there aren't a lot of them to go around. I also think that one thing to do is follow the resources. You know, Steve Kime came out the other day and said we didn't

draft Kyle or Murray number one. I want to touch on that. I want to touch on that because I'm so happy they didn't do the fake starter. I'm so happy. Because 99% of these first round picks over the past 10 years, there's been a McCown or something or a McCown-esque player who's been signed to be the starter. And then they're gone by or Matt Castle sometimes. And then they're gone, you know, they're completely out of the picture by October 10th. So when a guy gets paid in a free agency, he's going to play. He's going to play. Those guys, it's so your draft position and your contract matter in as much as you get more chances to fail. And that matters when it

comes to figuring out how reps are going to get split up and who's going to win roster battles. Right. And it comes back to, I don't know if I mentioned this in the piece that were three years ago, but the first team I ever covered was about 10 years ago, and I was in college, as the Dolphins. And there was this guy, Carrie Reed, who was just crushing it in training camp. And I thought he was going to make the team. And he had great chemistry with John Beck, who was incredibly hyped up at that point. And two things happened. Number one, it turns out that,

Both those players sucked, and so their chemistry didn't matter. But also, I mean, the Kerry Reid was caught in, first of all, I think he caught on with the CFL eventually, but he got caught in the numbers game, and you're not going to win a numbers game against Ted Gin, who was a first round pick. You're not going to win a numbers game against guys like Marty Booker who still have money on their contract and eventually got money, got value in a trade. There's just so many things you're up against when you're undrafted for agent. and that's why I'm sort of, and this is another thing I want to bring up, I'm sort of against all undrafted free agent hype. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, I understand how many undrafted free agents have made it,

but what I'm saying is they face such an uphill battle that I'll believe it when I see it. Remember that Jeff Janice Hive a couple years ago? He was a seven-throw-tick. Well, at least he made a team. I mean, that's true. The one that sticks out to me actually is Devon Bess, who when he signed, everybody was like, this guy's really good. and I kind of shorted it

and I was like, I don't think this is an undrafted for agent. He ended up having at least a few decent ears. Yeah, he played. I think that 95% of the time there's a reason these guys went undrafted. And I understand,

you start to understand it in training camp. And again, they are up against it. They're going up against draft picks. GMs don't know what to admit they're wrong. They're going up against guys who have money left on their contract. Undrafted for Agent hype

is some of the biggest fool's gold you can possibly find the NFL. That's like the Bears signed Emmanuel Hall, who everyone thought was going to like a fourth round pick and fell for personal reason or the personality reasons. And he's in a room with Riley Reed, Taylor Gabriel, Alan Robinson. You know, there's so many guys, Anthony Miller, that were high draft picks or free agents. It doesn't matter what we thought of that guy.

There's a good chance he doesn't even make the team, let alone have any sort of impact down the road. Again, where you're drafted and how much you get paid absolutely matters. Where you're drafted, I mean, I don't even think we talk enough about that. You know, when I was doing some of the draft analysis and talk to some of the analytic guys, both in the league and outside the league. This is something we already knew, but part of quantifying

how successful draft picks are, the problem with it is that first round picks get so many freaking opportunities. Everybody doesn't want to admit they're wrong, and so they will get more chances to succeed, and so it's almost impossible to even compare a first round pick with a fifth round pick

because of how many opportunities the first round pick will get to prove themselves over the five years of their deal. I remember when Michael Bennett signed that really tiny deal with the Seahawks. It was like a, I can't remember what the deal was. It was like two years, 10 minutes or something. Him and April on the same day, right? The same day.

One year, 4.8. Yeah. And it was crazy. It was on the same day. And I remember talking. Pretty good day. That season. I remember where I was when I saw that, which is crazy.

Like that's how, yeah, I was, it's a silly thing. I was just in my car dry. I was like, just like, ready to leave the gym. You had to pull over? I was like, I was like, shocked. I was like, I can't believe that just happened. But I talked to him about it that season when he was crushing it, not surprisingly, because I loved watching him in Tampa. He was a guy that flew off the screen.

And Tampa hadn't had a pass rusher in forever. So I'm like, what the fuck are these guys doing? And his theory, and he had a shoulder issue, but his main theory is I was undrafted. And that follows you for your entire career. Yeah. You know how many first round flame out offensive linemen have gotten second and third chances because they were first round picks? It's crazy. Eric Flowers.

Yes. If you're a top 10 pick, you're going to get a lot of chances to fail. Isn't his contract up to $4.5 million this year? Something like that. I mean, I know that he won't make that much, but it's just, it's unbelievable. It's one year, 3.25. And I think there are escalators in it they can bring it up. Escalators, if he ever appears for a snap.

If he touches someone on his way to the quarterback, he gets $500,000. Well, then it might be a valuable player. That's true, but it's just for one play. Every play he does it, he gets $500,000. He gets a million dollars every time he blocks somebody. All right. Let's get into our fake trades here. They'll make $2 million this year.

I think the reason we wanted to do this is because... Fake trades or fake signings? Fake trades or fake signings. Fake moves. It doesn't matter. Whatever the moves are, these are some dream moves that can continue to happen. Sure. And while this is fun, and that is the number one purpose of this exercise,

the second purpose is, I think the most important thing to remember about what happens from May to September is that you can still make your team better. You don't have to be done building your roster in April at the draft. We've seen this so many times with smart teams where when training camp is happening, you get into August and they're looking at who they have and like, man, how can we incrementally improve this roster? And the best teams do that. I need to interrupt you because we need to talk about something for the next 10 minutes. Seattle Ciax have released Doug Baldwin. Wow. Okay, so this is a health thing, right? That's what you would assume?

So, so this is Mike Garifalo saying Baldwin is leaning towards retirement. A release allows him to keep a signing bonus and possibly future injury protection money. I need to talk about Doug Baldwin because I'm getting angry already that we're going to underappreciate Doug Baldwin. He was so good. I mean, if this is it, he was incredible to watch. He was so much fun. And again, a guy who really built his career, you know, a guy not high draft pick, somebody that wasn't valued early in his career, really had to fight for every opportunity and just turned himself into an unbelievably effective player. I mean, no, on-drafted, I'm sorry. I thought he was a seventh round pick. But again, just so, so fun, a huge part of those teams. I mean, just the chemistry he had with Russell Wilson, that in that run where they were just clicking, it was so awesome to watch.

They were perfect pairing for each other at a certain stretch of their career when the offense really catered to it. In 2015, he led the NFL with 14 receiving touchdown. Russell Wilson looked like the best quarterback in the NFL in the second half of that season. That's what... The name was crushing it. That's what propelled him that offseason for me to call him the best quarterback in the NFL. And I just think that every part of that Seahawks team, with the exception of the offensive line, just worked. And Baldwin is a part of that.

And I think that I really hope that in 10 years when we're looking back on that team, we think about Doug Baldwin with the other parts, especially that offense. Yeah, because the numbers were. weren't huge when they were winning the Super Bowl, but that offense was not catered to do that. It was a very different type of offense. He also started only half the games that season that receiving court. I think Sidney Rice was on the team to start that year. I mean, they really had guys come out of nowhere. But that's kind of the story of those Seahawks teams, right?

They trained for Percy Harvin. Yeah, they traded for Percy Harvin that year. I mean, they had, yeah, Doug Baldwin was, every time Doug Baldwin seemed like he should be getting more opportunities, the Seahawks tried to give him less, which again, the nature of being somebody that goes that late in the draft or goes undrafted. But I just think, though, that he is so indicative of why they were great and why they've been such a really strong franchise because they got more out of players. They got a lot out of players that you don't typically get a lot out of.

Mid-round picks, undrafted guys. They were, they had a run that was unbelievable. It was Michael Lopez, who was one of the, it was the one of the, one of the other guys in league office, had a graph that I put in a story a couple weeks ago. And I don't know if you saw it, Robert. Basically, the only two people who have drafted better than average are the Seahawks and the Ted Thompson Packers. Yep, I saw that. And that matters.

And there's 30 teams who didn't do that. And for, you know, there's a lot of teams who manage their team better. I mean, I think the Patriots sort of from a big picture perspective handle things better and roster management. But for a while there, nobody was better of finding players than John Schneider. And I really, what they've done this offseason and just, again, If you're going to sign Russell Wilson in that contract, which we both agree you should, then you need to find creative ways to help build the rest of your roster. Trading down, just incessantly getting all of that draft capital for Frank Clark. And the Ziggyanta signing, I really like.

I think that was just a smart way to take a flyer on a guy who has a really high ceiling. They're a very smartly run team. And I think that they've done a good job kind of in this second wave after that team has fallen apart a little bit. to figure out what their next phase is. And with Baldwin leaving, this really is the next phase. I mean, we're out of Seahawks from those Super Bowl teams. That was it. Doug Baldwin was really the last guy outside of Russell Wilson that was on that roster.

We were going to a completely new era now. Well, can we segue from the Seattle Seahawks and what they're doing to my first fake transaction? We absolutely can. One more thing. Doug Baldwin was, in my opinion, the second best route runner in the NFL after Antonio Brown for several years. I just wanted to put that out there. Okay. Can we get Indamican Sioux on the Seahawks?

That works for me. You think even with the Zygianza thing, you still want Sue and the Seahawks? Well, they're very close. That's, they play together. Yeah. Those two guys are close, as evidence by the time that I went to Sue's house and Anso was playing FIFA on the couch. And we didn't speak that we were like 10 feet away from each other.

We never spoke the whole time. He didn't really acknowledge that I was there. Probably their shared interest. He didn't acknowledge that I was there. So I think that first of all We're not looking at big money for Sue. There's a reason. So just so anybody knows if they missed it,

the second wave of free agency has begun because now these guys don't count toward the comp pick formula. And there's a reason that these guys are available. So you're not looking at big money for Sue. You're certainly not looking at big money for ANSA, a couple of these other guys that we're going to get to. And so I think on a flyer,

I'm totally fine with Sue to the Seahawks. He's from Portland. He has a lot of business interests in the area. I don't think the Rams either they don't want him back or they don't have the money for it. They don't have any cap space. So I saw Albert Breer floated the idea that he could return to Los Angeles. I think that maybe a new, a change of pace, maybe fits him better. Yeah, I predicted that he would be in Seattle with the start of free agency.

I thought that fit just made a lot of sense. So wouldn't surprise me at all. I can understand why they would want to do it. They probably have a little bit more money freed up now with Baldwin gone. So it makes sense to me. Realistic are all of yours because mine are like semi realistic because I did them is dream. Mine might happen. Well, I'm not going to put like Patrick Mahomes on the Jaguars.

Oh, no, no. That's not. It's not that kind of dream move. Here's my first example. I will lead with this one. Okay. It's not that realistic, but I think that it'd be awesome and actually makes some sense when you think about

need team trajectory and overall just, yeah, where these guys are going. What if the Saints traded for AJ Green? So let's back up because the Saints have spent the past 10 years operating as if this is the last season. That's exactly right. This would be the type of move that lends itself to that. AJ Green has been sort of in the, there hasn't been a full-fledged AJ Green is on the block rumor, but anytime you sort of hear that, oh, who could be next, especially after the O'D, Beckham trade and Antonio

Brown trade. It was who could be next. You sort of hear AJ Green's name floating around there. I think that would be amazing. Last year of AJ Green's contract, I'd say probably more likely than not, the last year of Andy Dalton's tenure is the starter in Cincinnati. If you're going to do a full-scale rebuild,

wouldn't the picks for AJ Green be a significant part of that? You could also argue that if you're going to draft a quarterback, you'd want to put that guy in an offense with AJ Green. But do they want to give 31 one-year-old AJ Green, a huge contract after the season ends? I don't think it's that nuts. The Saints currently have $8.8 million in cap space.

AJ Green has a base salary of about $11 million. That's child's play for the Saints. They find $3 million in cap space in the couch every single day. So don't worry about that. The money is not a problem whatsoever. It's all about motivation and do you want to give up what you need to give up to put him in your offense? Because they have a need at outside receiver.

I mean, that is a spot where they were trying to find, they were trying to find receivers in free agency. It didn't end up working out. If you put him on the outside with Michael Thomas on the inside, ooh boy. Ooh, boy, is that fun. So that's my first one. I would really like to see that happen.

Okay. Here's mine. Well, Sean McCoy to the Chiefs. That's really fun too. I like that a lot. I don't know. So, so it's been, I guess they're going to trade him or they might trade him. That's been the rumor.

he spoiled endgame for everybody. That's a fireable offense. So he's got off off the field concerns because he spoils movies. I wrote a story a couple years ago about how players were fighting in a locker room over game of throne spoilers. So you don't want to cross that bridge.

It is a touchy thing, man. It is a touchy thing. So I just think that would be incredibly fun. It would fill a need. I don't think LaShawn McCoy is the best running back in the NFL in 2019. I was going to ask you how much he thought he had left in the tank. I don't think he has a whole.

whole lot left, but I think he can still be elusive and explosive, especially in that offense where there's going to be a lot of space to operate. He's worked under Andy Reid before. I am pro more dynamic players than the Kansas City offense. I'm worried about how dynamic he still is. I think that he would see a lot more from him in the Chiefs offense than we did in the Bill's offense, obviously. I think that the bills have added players at that position, so it would not be out of the question, but the Chiefs have also added players of that position. They went out and got Carlos Hyde. I wonder if they still feel like they could bring in more guys there or they would need to. That would be one of my questions, but I'm in favor of it.

All right. Here's your next guy. Chris Harris to the Colts. Yeah. Or to the 49ers. I had him to the Colts because we talked about Chris Harris yesterday. He was on my list. He was on your list.

I think that he'd be a great fit for the Colts. I don't know what the 49ers are doing. I don't know what the 49ers are doing either. I'm officially worried. I went from being totally sold on the 49ers in 2019, 2020, 2020, 2021, too. I like to see a better plan. John Lynch and Kyle Shannon are both way smarter than I am, so I'll defer to them.

But I will say, if we're drawing up plans right now, the Colts looks a lot better than the 49ers. I've gotten a little bit more concerned as well. My attitude has shifted. So I think that the 49ers, I think John Lynch said on the radio the other day, we need to win now. And this is the type of move that is indicative of that.

They still have $35 million in cap space. You know, the Colts still have an ocean of cap space because they didn't spend any of it. This is the reason you have it. I think the Colts are so patient right now. This wouldn't necessarily fit their MO. They are really moving at their own pace, which I respect. I'm really impressed by the fact that they haven't felt compelled to do anything panicky.

And I don't think this would be panicky, but I think it doesn't necessarily fit the moves they've made in the past. But I think both of those teams could drastically use a guy like Chris Harris again. And the last year of his contract has said that he doesn't, he's frustrated with the lack of movement on a new deal. So he's somebody that it makes sense for him to be on the move. And those are the two teams, I think they could use him most. Also, if you're the Broncos,

what are you doing in 2019 anyway? They're just so adrift. You might as well get some picks. I see, I don't think they feel like they're a trip. No, no, no. Of course they don't. They also feel like Joe Flack was a starting quarterback. That's, hey, that matters.

How you feel about your own team matters when it comes to moves like this. But yeah, the Colts do need a guy. I mean, like, they re-signed Pierre de Sear, they have Quincy Wilson, but they could absolutely use another corner. I don't know what they think about Kenny Moore long term, but that's not the type of guy that should block you from going to get Chris Harris. The team that could actually use Chris Harris the most, but would never ever get him is the Chiefs. They would never trade him within the division. But I was also, I was also just thinking, I mean, just Capua. I mean, they do have a resources limit at some point if you're going to assign Chris Harris to the extension he wants.

Yeah, that's probably true. Yeah, they make less sense to me than the 49ers of the Colts, but just from a personnel standpoint, a team needs standpoint, I think they could probably use him more. They're hurting for talent in the secondary more than even the cults of the Niners are. Well, arguably the Niners. Yeah.

I want Eric Barry to get a job. I have him on my list as well. Where did you put him? So I'm putting him in Cleveland. Oh, man. That makes sense. The John Dorsey connection, I understand that. I put him in Dallas.

Oh, okay. But Cleveland is a good one. I mean, I'm not even sure he has a ton left in the tank. I mean, the fact that he's still available is slightly worrying. I just like him as a player, and I want him to be happy. This is my standard for these things. Where's Eric Berry from? Is he from Tennessee?

He's from Georgia. Oh, that's right. I mean, do you want to put him on the Falcons? No, I was wondering if he was another one of those guys that loved the Cowboys as a kid. I mean, everybody our age loved the Cowboys as a kid. That's true. That's true. Have I told you the story?

If I told you the story about the time that I went up to Morgan Burnett, and we talked about Atlanta high school football? No. Okay, so I went up to Morgan Burnett and the locker room with the Packers, and sometimes when there's like 10 minutes left and in a locker room, whatever, I'll just go up to a guy and be like, tell me a funny story. So Burnett was Cam Newton's middle school quarterback. Okay.

Cam Newton was the running back. And I was like, so what happened? He said, well, we had to go to different high school so that we could both play quarterback. And I said, well, who, so you guys were like the top high school quarterbacks? And he was like, no, no, no, no. I wasn't number two. Eric Barry was number two. Eric Barry was an incredible high school player.

But it's like, could you imagine being in Atlanta? Unfortunately, they never played each other. But could you imagine being in Atlanta and watching either Cam Newton or Eric Barry every other week? Like, it's just like, that's what's cool about, I'm from Florida. And you had that a little bit in Florida where it's just like you can go to a random high school game and see three future NFL players. but I mean, I definitely Eric Berry and Kim Newton in Atlanta at the high school at the same time is a moment. All right.

Let's stay with chiefs centric moves or moves somewhat related to the chiefs. Is this episode just building the chiefs? No, I mean, like these are the teams motivated to make moves. No, no, I know. You know what I'm saying? The Saints and the Chiefs. So why wouldn't the Chiefs just trade for Trey Wains? They need a corner.

The Vikings clearly aren't that in love with him and probably could move him without even thinking about it again without a second thought just based on the fact he's in the last year of his deal he's had some issues there but again that's just the type of guy former first round pick

the chiefs have a needed corner that's the type Chris Harris may not be realistic but Trey Wayne seems like he could be I agree I mean I think that there's it's really interesting to me this is not

this is not for that sort of level of trade but I do want to talk about who could become available on the cornerback market because you start to think, let's talk about Dallas for a second. So Stephen Jones says they're often running

on a contract talks with Dak and Amari, okay? But then he talks about Byron Jones, Lail Collins, and Jalen Smith. At some point, one or two of those guys becomes too expensive. It's not going to be Dak Prescott, it's not going to be Marry Cooper, just because of the order of contract they are.

So is someone like Byron Jones available for a really good package? I think the Lyle Collins is the guy I agree I agree I just wanted to throw that out there I think Lyle Collins is too What about I mean I don't

I don't know even how you approach The Jalen Smith thing In what sense I mean I just I don't know I think he's a good player I don't know what you look at As far as a four year deal

for someone like Jalen Smith Just with an injury history Okay yeah I think it's a fluke injury I don't know if there's an injury No I know And what he's been able to do has been incredible.

The fact that he's all the way back, I think that he may take that into account, but if they feel comfortable that that injury is in the past, as much as it's going to be, that he's really kind of strengthened that knee back up, I can understand him getting a pretty huge deal. I think Collins is somebody that could be on the move solely because they've drafted other guys at that spot,

they drafted another offensive lineman this year. And I think that there is a market for guy like Lyle Collins. He's one of my trades. I think that a team like the Chargers would be very smart to consider somebody like, that. They still need help on the offensive line. They drafted a guy late in the draft, but I mean, that's not somebody you can just pencil in as a starter at right tackle. They could use help at guard. They could use physicality at guard. You know, Lyle Collins is not a perfect

player, but I think he could help some teams. And typically I would say the Texans, but the Texans added so much draft capital at those spots. And they gave Matt Khalil that one year deal that I still probably don't understand. So I think a team like the Chargers could use him a little bit more than Houston right now. So that's, that was one on my list. I think Byron Jones is amazing. I think he's an amazing player. Byron Jones is just one of those guys you love so much before the draft.

Top 10 favorite player in the NFL just because how high you can jump. He's a good quarterback. He's exactly what I talk about with athleticism. Matheson doesn't guarantee anything, but it guarantees there's something to mold into a good player. Dallas was really good at developing

Byron Jones and now it has to pay off. Now it's going to pay off. It is paying off. It's a perfect situation for him in that defense. He and I talked about it during the playoffs this year. When Chris Richard came in there and taught him how to play that version of press man coverage, it's exactly who he is as a player. There couldn't be a more ideal fit.

And I think that that's really unlocked him. So I think throwing that away is a little bit silly. I think Collins would make more sense to me. I didn't, I don't think they're going to trade him at all. I just think that the one of those guys becomes expendable when everybody's getting big contracts. So Lyle Collins of the Chargers was one of mine. another one on my list is

we're just shipping off Vikings players here about Kyle Rudolph to the Jaguars Yeah The Kyle Rudolph is on my list Where'd you have him going though I mean there's a lot of places That could use Kyle Rudolph

I mean the Jaguars are interesting I don't know let me ask you a question about the Jaguars How good do you think the Jaguars think They're going to be in 2019 That's a wonderful question I think they believe They're like a Super Bowl contender

Yeah I'm not so sure about that one that they don't believe that or that they are? No, no, that they are. I mean, they assign Nick Foles to that much money you think Nick Foles and get you to the Super Bowl. That's what that contract says. Correct. That's what the weird thing, if we have to get,

we're bidding against no one, but we're going to give Nick Folles that much money so it commands respect in the locker room. That means you think Nick Foles is the elite of the elite. I don't think he is. I think Nick Foles, with one of the best offensive infrastructures in the last five years,

going into the playoffs, is elite. But that's very, very circumstantial. I don't think he is in the Jaguars. I don't think he is either. And in order to kind of get him to be the player you want him to be, helping build up that infrastructure is a good idea. And I think that's what trading for a guy like Kyle Rudolph would do.

They don't have that many. I mean, their past catching group is not that impressive. I mean, you're looking at a wide receiver core that's D.D. Westbrook, DJ Shark, who was a second round pick last year, by the way. Marquise Lee, Chris Conley, and Keel and Cole. That's what we got. The tight-ed option right now is Jeff Swain. They drafted Josh Oliver in the third round.

So it feels like they can absolutely use an upgrade there. And there's also a DiFilippo connection. He got 64 passes last year in Minnesota for John D. Filippo is the offensive coordinator. So he understands him as a player. I just think that he fits with what Nick Foles does well. I mean, middle of the field throws. Nick Foles was so good with Zach Ertz.

I know Zachertz is a better receiver, but I just think that's a way to help build your offense in the way they'd be conducive to helping your quarterback. So those are the moves you should make. I want to throw out a Kyle Rudolph possibility for you. New England Patriots. Oh, man. They signed Ben Watson today.

That doesn't matter. That does not matter. They want like four tight-ons. Also, Ben Watson is just a good guy in the locker room, but he's not going to get a thousand yards for you. He's not the Grunk replacement. No one is. No one is.

Except maybe Chase Vinovich, apparently. but that's that's that's that's a different category it's a whole other conversation uh Kyle Rudolph is sitting making seven million dollars this year I'm just saying so what is it take with your Minnesota what do you give up Kyle Rudolph for that's part of this conversation though because Kyle Rudolph is such a staple of that organization yep and that community been there since 2000 been there since 2011 best season 840 yards and seven touchdowns But he's been so consistent.

I mean, he's just been such a consistent part of that offense. And that's the type of organization that I don't think is just going to ship a guy off without thinking about the ramifications. Also, also, they're good. The Vikings are good. It's not like they're going to help the Patriots out of the kindness of their heart. The Vikings are a team that probably should hope they can win the Super Bowl because they've got a lot of talent still. We forget because we saw their disaster season last year. the Vikings are really good.

The Vikings are maxed out. If they don't think they're a Super Bowl contender, then they kind of screwed up this long-term plan here. I absolutely feel like they believe that. So, yeah, they don't have that much motivation to kind of ship off guys for pieces as they try to rebuild. And I also think that they're probably not that motivated to trade for them.

I just think these are calls these teams should make, not necessarily a moves that seem that likely. I agree. What was your next one? Do you have another one? Oh, no, that was it. We covered all of them. whether we either of mine,

we either overlapped or I threw it in the conversation. I did my five. Another one I had, I had more than five. So that's what I just throw it out these ideas. Were you setting me up to just brag that you came up with more than the allotted, than the allotted five? I love fake traits.

I absolutely love them. It must drive me crazy to be in, in the league where they don't really trade. I know. It's such a bummer. You need to be. You need to be. May I recommend,

for instance, baseball or European soccer, where everyone's constantly on the move. Listen, the NFL has definitely started to align with my tastes a little bit more in recent years, and it's been one of my favorite things. We're getting player for player trades. We're getting trades late in the off season. We're getting shocking trades of superstars.

I mean, it's been a pretty good couple years. Remember, like, the decade where all of the, all of the player for player trades was terrible. They were all Jonathan Baldwin for AJ Jenkins. Oh, it's, so I was watching, I was watching old 30-rack reruns as I want to do. And the live episode of 30 Rock that they did, the West Coast one in order to make sure people knew it was live,

they were reading off NFL draft results. And the one they read off was AJ Jenkins going to the 49ers. She's like, what a moment. What an all-time great moment in national football league history. Just such an important thing. Before the Super Bowl, when I was with the Wall Street Journal, AJ Jenkins was talking to me. And then a TV camera walked up and he just,

in mid-sentence left. and then did the TV interview and he was like, sorry, man, I got to go to the cameras. His storyed NFL careers. He just did not, he just wanted to be on TV instead of giving me 30 more seconds.

It was quite a moment. I've never had that before. Yeah, that one was terrible, but I mean, we can always look back with great affection for the Clinton Portis for Champ Bailey trade, which is still the greatest player

for NFL trade, I think, ever. It's so good. So, so good. Incredible. Both guys just fit incredibly well in their new teams. I mean, that's still the gold standard. So the last one I had here on my list was Jerry Hughes going to the Ravens,

which is not as exciting. But he's another guy. Last year of his deal, the Ravens need edge rushing help. The bills, sorry, let me do that again. The bills are another one of those teams.

I'm really curious how good the bills think they are. Their offseason has been impressive in my mind. I think they think they're getting there. They're not going to be good in 2019. Let's call that an educated answer. That's probably right. I think that, yeah, they probably feel like they are getting there. I think that they've done a lot of really good things.

I liked the moves they made this offseason. They dabbled in free agency and the way that you want to dabble in a free agency. Contracts that are not going to cripple you long term, guys that have a chance to play up to the money, deals that could actually, you could extra create some value from them. Those are very rare. So I'm enjoying their direction. I wish their quarterback was better,

but it just seems like Jerry Hughes might be a guy that doesn't fit into their long-term plans. I think the Ravens probably feel like they're in win-now mode after making the playoffs. So that would make sense to me. I like that. I mean, I wouldn't,

I don't think, shake up the AFC by any means, but I think that there's... No, it's a smaller one. It's not AJ Green to the Saints, but of the kind of... I mean, in order to do this,

you look at the remaining holes that teams have. Is there a glaring team need that you're still really, really worried about, that you feel like for a contender is something that could sink them. I don't know, man. Who's catching balls for the Patriots? That is fine with me. I mean, I guess it's Nikiel Harry, but if you don't feel good about that one, I don't blame you.

No, I mean, I think he's good, but I just, I just feel like they're, I don't know, without Josh Gordon, they wouldn't have made, they wouldn't have been the team they were last year. I don't know. I mean, I just, they still have Philip Dorset starting. I'm just looking at the depth chart right now. They still have Philip Dorset starting. That's a big red flag. That's one for me.

I think that as we talked about many times on this show today, the chief secondary still worries me. Even going out and getting some past rushers, we've seen how much importance you have to put on the coverage, even with a pass rush these days. And even with Tyra Matthew, who I love, it just seems like they don't have enough talent in the secondary to feel good about where they are.

Yeah, I think that's probably true. trying to think of the rest of the contenders. I mean, it just depends. What about your Chicago Bears? Are they all set? I think depth up front. I mean, they're a team that if they wanted to trade for the guy like Jerry Hughes, I wouldn't be upset. If they wanted to sign Derek Morgan, who is still a free agent right now, I wouldn't be upset.

They need some depth both in the interior of the offensive line and on the edge. They also could probably use a safety. I mean, Trey Boston's out there. I mean, there are still players that can make you a lot better right now. And I think that that's why the second wave of free agency is always so important. One-year deals, that shit comes back to really help you in the latter parts of the season especially. When guys get hurt and you just need that guy off the bench that's competent, it's a huge thing. Can we give the Packers one more pass catcher?

Yeah, who would that be, though? I mean, that's the question. I saw a thing in the day that maybe Michael Crabtree would fit there, but I'm sort of done with Michael Crabtree. I've moved on. I'm also done with Aaron Rogers throwing a guys who absolutely cannot get separation. Aaron Rogers had me to put the ball on the money every single time because these guys can't separate is an ongoing problem. I think they're going to run a lot of two tight-end sets with Sternberger and Jimmy Graham.

I think we're going to see a lot of that. They're going to be creative because in that offense, you're going to see a lot of bigger personnel packages. So on the field, it would be Adams, a couple of those young receivers. I think that they probably think they're in good shape there. I'm trying to think of some other ones here. Oh, the Brown's offensive line. Oh, yeah.

I still have questions about the Browns offensive line. I think that that's an area that, again, could come back and bite them. They're so good in so many places. And, you know, you have pencilled starters. You have starters penciled in pretty much all of those spots. But after losing Zitler, you know, you're relying on Austin Corbett, who's a second round pick. It just seems like there are still question marks for them there.

There's not that many offensive linemen on the trade market, though. There's a shortage of them, period. So it's not like a lot of teams have extra starters just sitting around. Eagles. What can we do with the Eagles? Let's fix the Eagles for a second. I don't know, man. I think the Eagles is pretty good. I know. I love the Eagles. I mean, the Eagles going and signing Zach Brown for pennies is like the exact deal the Eagles make every single year. The Eagles offseason is freaking ridiculous. They traded for Deshawn Jackson. They just have Deshawn Jackson now, which that's pretty fun. They draft a Jason Peters replacement who of Jason Peters gets hurt, which seems just reasonable because he's old and injury prone.

they have a first round left tackle to just pop in there now. Sydney Jones is healthy. It's, yeah, their corner situation, I think, you know, last year, obviously was just decimated by injury. But I also think that those players did not develop in the way they necessarily wanted. You know, Rasul Douglas, Sydney Jones. They bring back Ronald Darby who's had some issues at times. Jaywin Mills is the same way. Von Tomatics is back there.

Yeah, I mean, they have more depth. I think signing Andrew Sendejo is a really smart choice. Again, just part of an excellent offseason by them to. bring him in in case you have an injury there like they did with McLeod last year. So I don't know. I think this roster is pretty damn good

because it's been pretty damn good for the last couple of years. They do an excellent job of the Malik Jackson thing rules. The Malik Jackson thing is absurd. I mean, it's just every year it just seems like there's two more guys in the Eagles

that shouldn't be there. It is so impressive what they're able to do every season. Are the Eagles going to the Super Bowl again? I think they might. They're going to be really good. I think they might, dude. They're going to be so good.

I mean, it's just a matter of injuries. I mean, same thing that happened last year. They were so hurt on defense that it became a problem. I mean, it's crazy to say, but I think the most important question about the Eagles ceiling in 2019 is Carson Wentz. I was going to say that.

I was going to wait for this whole discussion to end and then drop the bomb that they have a whole quarterback. And then end the show, and then end the show and get everybody mad at me. Man, it's how quickly things change. No, in all seriousness, I think Carson won't. Once is still very, very good.

I think Carson Wentz is still a good quarterback, but I think that there are more questions and more uncertain. There are more questions and there is more uncertainty at that spot than there has been in quite some time. Goff taking the belt from Carson Wentz is the top five unexpected moment in the last five years for me. I mean, are we sure you want to be so quick to do that? No, they're going to wrestle over for the next, I don't know, three years, but I'm just saying right now. Which belt is that just the 2016 draft belt? Yeah.

Okay. That's fair. That's a belt. Yeah, that's a belt. We can give that belt status. You ever looked into boxing? There's like 100 belts. This is the WBO regular title.

Okay? I'm fine with that. And so, yeah, there's a belt. And right now Jared Goff has it because Carson Wentz has been to zero Super Bowles and Jared Goff just went to one where he scored three points. They scored three points?

Yeah, 13 and 3, right? Yeah, they did score. There were points on the board. Good for him. Anyway, at the moment, I believe that when their careers are over, Carson Wentz will have the belt. That's, I agree with you.

That's where we are together. I'm just saying right now, I think Jared Gough has it, though. I'm looking at it right now. I think the Eagles had a perfect off season. Like, I think legitimately it was perfect. What else would you have wanted? With the resources they had,

how could they be better than they are right now? Well, they got 500 comp picks. Yes. Because Howie is a comp pick god. It's kind of funny to me. It's kind of funny to me. Like, I'm like Jackson. But,

It's kind of funny to me. But he was cut. He was cut. It doesn't matter. He doesn't play into it. It's the same thing for trading for Deshawn Jackson, waiting until two days ago to sign Zach Brown. It's nuts.

It doesn't affect anything. They're like 10 steps ahead of all but three teams. The natural conclusion of everything, every trend in the NFL is that the smart teams figure it out, and then the bad teams follow suit and do it worse. And you look at the comp pick stuff, and it's the Patriots, the Eagles, and the Ravens who have just cornered the market on compics.

And now for the next like three years, every team's going to try to do it, and it's going to be a much worse version. And in some way, the pages will just stop trying to collect compics and go the other way and just sign a bunch of guys for pennies in the dollar and win that way. Yeah, everybody's trying to catch up.

And now that you can trade them, they're so much more valuable, which has made teams even more ravenous to get more of them. So, yeah, the Eagles continue to crush it. I mean, looking at this roster is just like, God damn. Howie Roseman value God.

All right. I think that's all we got, buddy. As always, guys, thanks so much for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. We will let you know when we'll be back. Maybe next week, it may not be. We will be coming to you intermittently throughout the offseason. So don't worry, we're not going away for any extended period of time. But thank you guys for listening and we'll talk soon.

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