The Ringer NFL Show - Dysfunction In Pittsburgh, Josh Gordon’s New Home, and Matchups to Watch in Week 3 | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 305)

Episode Date: September 20, 2018

The Ringer’s Robert Mays and Kevin Clark connect to cover the ongoing chemistry issues in Pittsburgh and Josh Gordon’s potential in New England before diving into this week's Take Shop (3:30). Then the guys break down the three biggest games of Week 3, geek out over coaching schemes, and offer their picks for 'Thursday Night Football' (25:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly. Here are a few things to check out in the Ringer universe before the end of the week. We've got an oral history on the movie Rounders 20 years later going up on Thursday. So read that and then check out the rewatchables episode that Bill and Sean did on the movie earlier this month. And don't forget about our extensive football coverage. We have a new pod going up every day of the week on the Ringer NFL show and more football content on the Bill Simmons podcast, dual threat, and against all odds. Subscribe to those and more on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. To the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark.

Kevin, how you doing, bud? I'm okay. I'm a little off focus today because you see the Jordan Matthews quote today? No, I did not see that. Okay, so Jordan Matthews said that he has a baby only because he's about to have a baby because he played in Buffalo and because there's nothing else to do there. Okay, interesting. And then Chris Harrison chimed in.

So the phrase that Jordan used was, I have a buffalo baby because just pure boredom, just created a baby. And Chris Harrison, who placed the Chargers, said, yeah, my youngest is a Buffalo baby too. I have so many questions. I have a lot of questions. The most pressing being,

what if Philip Rivers were drafted by the bills? You'd have 27 kids right now. So I don't, I'm not trying to be judgmental here. is Jordan Matthews married? Is this a baby he had with his wife? His wife is a professional soccer player who had to take the year off. Okay. So because Jordan Matthews was bored,

even if his wife didn't want to have a kid, she had to take a year off from soccer. So the quote is there's nothing to do there except each other. That's great. Are we ending the show? Is that it? What are they going to tell that kid when he sees that for the first time? I know.

You weren't an accident, Timmy, but you were the product of pure boredom. Just absolutely pure boredom. Shot across the bow at Wegmans in Buffalo, at Anchor Bar, at the weird casino that's there. True story. I have never been to Buffalo. I have. The only time I've been in that region, I guess I've driven through Buffalo because I've been to Niagara Falls. But I've never been to Buffalo.

Like, stayed there for more than maybe like a gas station. When I wrote about it. about Miles Garrett a couple weeks ago he was all in on Niagara Falls big time Niagara Falls guy I have nothing else

to say about it big time Miles Garrett is going to be the first ever free agent in four years or five years who is making his decisions based on the museums

and sites around the town I'm not sure that would bring you to Niagara Falls no he loves the water so go to Los Angeles well no it's not that I mean it's just like

it's nothing scientific here. Listen, man, take it up with Miles Garrett. So we do have, just so the listener knows, we do have a football show coming. We're going to do a football show. Now that we've gotten our obligatory buffalo digs in for the week, which

usually they come in the form of Nathan Peterman. We're not digging at Buffalo. It's them. It's the board. Now that we've touched on someone digging on Buffalo, let's get to the NFL stuff from the week. As always, we're going to start the Thursday show

with the headlines that have kind of trickled out over the past couple days. Let us start with some dysfunction in Pittsburgh. Is that what we're going to call it? Yeah, I mean, we were sort of marching toward this for a while with the Leveon Bell stuff, and now that has grown to include Antonio Brown. How much stock do you put in this Antonio Brown stuff? Do you feel like it's just a lot of noise or no? I mean, we're going to find out on Sunday if there's been any,

first of all, Monday, rather. They're playing the Bucks who are a pretty good deal. team. And if the Steelers... Let's take it easy. I mean, they're two-un-0. The Bucks have looked good over the first two games. They've had the best offense in football for two weeks, statistically.

That's fine. The Bucks have looked good over two weeks. That is what I'm willing to say. And the Steelers have looked bad. Yes. Well, the Steelers' offense looked pretty good against the Chiefs, but I think a lot of teams can look pretty good. It's a couple days. First of all, it speaks to the consistency of the Pittsburgh Steelers that they start out, oh, one,

and one, score 37 points in a loss, and then they just completely melt down. Like, there's like 20 franchises who'd be like, hell yeah. So I went back and I watched the Steelers Chiefs game earlier this week. Okay. And I'm watching the All-22 and I want to watch my homes. And I tweeted this yesterday, but I'm not super good at figuring out, like, what coverages are being played on certain plays.

That's like the gap in my football knowledge. Like, that's the thing I struggle with the most. So I'm watching these plays and I'm just like, what coverage is this? like, do I know even less than I thought about what teams do in, like, on specific plays? So a buddy of my who worked in the league for a little bit called me later in the day because I had tweeted something about like this route distribution that Chiefs used. And I was asking him about a couple of these specific plays. And I'm like, what are they doing on that play?

Like, it looks like they're playing cover two on this side, but like, what are those guys doing? Like, what could the safety possibly be doing? And he's like, yeah, I have no idea. They're just busting coverage. Like, you're not misunderstanding what's going on here. Sure. Oh, good. Good.

So for my own just satisfaction, that was a nice moment. But the Steelers were an absolute mess on defense. Combined that with the fact that their best player just didn't show up to work on Monday. And Levi-on-Bel is still not there. It seems like this is going in a pretty worrisome direction. So it's clear to me at this point that if you were to place a bet, you'd place the bet on Levi-on-bell not showing up until he absolutely has to, which is in 7th century.

weeks. Week 10, right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's not good. And now we're in a debate over whether Brown or Rothesberger is more valuable to the offense, which I didn't see happening. But here we are.

What do you think the answer to that is? I don't think there is a clear answer. Because I just... Usually with a quarterback, it would be obvious. Be clear cut. Sure. And so there's a couple of things. Number one, in 2015 when he caught, what, 18?

100 yards from three different quarterbacks, Rathesberger, Vic, and Jones, we sort of saw that Brown struggled a little bit when Rathsberger wasn't in. Having said that, this is an Evan Silva tweet from two years ago. There was a 16-game span

before that, 2015, going into 2014, where over the 16 games, so a regular season, sample size, Brown had 152 catches and 2,039 receiving yards when he was playing with Ben Rathesberger.

So I don't think it matters if it's a chicken and egg thing. I don't think, you know, I remember getting into this last year and I wrote the 07 Patriot story. I'd go on the radio in Boston and they'd say, what was the key? Was it Moss? Was it Welker? Was it Brady? I don't know how much that any of that matters.

What matters is when these guys get together and play, it's really special. If you had to pick, if you were the Steelers, if you were Kevin Colbert right now, you have to pick one of those guys for the next three years who is. it. So, because Ben Rothesberger is old, I would pick Antonio Brown. So would I. But if Ben Rothersberger were Ben Rothesberger at age 31, it's a different scenario. That's not where we are, though. I understand that. But they also, but also in this, this hypothetical is not going to come to pass. They're not going to have to choose, but it's not going to be a Kobe Shack thing. Oh, this is a, this is an exercise based on some of the, just stuff that's happened.

He's 36 years old. He's not, you know, he's not on the TB12. method as far as as far as fitness. He's not, there's no avocado ice cream going here. I remember when like before the season, whenever I was just like, oh yeah, Ben Rathesberger's in better shape. I was like, what does that mean?

Yeah. It's always a strange thing. I mean, the flaco, flacco narrative is like that too. It's like, Joe, would you say you worked hard once Lamar Jackson was drafted and he's kind of like, I can't really say that because that implies I just mailed in the past three years. He was like, oh, been working hard.

It's one of those guys where you see him for the first time. It's like, man, good for you. It's crushing it. It's a great career to be looking like that. I mean, it's odd because Ben Ralsberger is a physical player. He's not Damarino back there where he can be big and just sort of take two steps back and chuck the ball 50 yards downfield. He does move.

In terms of, I guess that Peyton Manning will always have the crown for dudes who are not physically impressive but somehow became like... He had four neck surgeries and he was the best player in football. They didn't move back there. He came out of Tennessee. He didn't move.

It was amazing. Yeah, they're very different players. But in terms of like the overall title for like the dude where you see him for the first time in person

without a shirt office is like that guy? I mean, Peyton Manning will always have that belt. Okay. Have you ever seen Wyatt Tittle? No. I've never been around Wyatt Tittle.

No, no, no, no. I don't mean physical. I mean, he was extremely balding. He looked like he was 50 when he was like 25. That's a good one. I have seen pictures of Wyatt. Yeah, no, no, it's just, it's mostly the hair.

It's a type of hair that would just not happen now. All right. Before we move on, let's just very briefly, are you worried about the Steelers? Do you feel like this is actual cause for concern? Yeah, I'm worried if they lose Monday night. I mean, I'm worried about the Steelers because,

okay, okay, I'm worried about the Steelers because we have talked a lot about how unprecedented to the golden age of quarterbacks is, that sort of upper age limit there. And at some point, some of these 36, 37, 38-year-old guys are going to start to fail. And it's entirely possible that Rathsberger just doesn't have the ability to save

a season like you did a couple years ago. The only reason where I think that we should pump the brakes on any Steelers' concern is that the AFC is still so weak. Yep. I mean, and the AFC North is... Yes, yes. Did you see the Ravens?

got fined again for breaking some they are the all-time cheaters. It's amazing. They've done like 10 different things. It's a communication thing now. Shouldn't you be, if you're cheating constantly, shouldn't you be better? Yes, the equipment managers apparently didn't know that you could have more than one guy with the

mic and the coaching staff didn't know there was more than one player with a microphone. They also have OTA violations like every time they host an OTA. Yes. Yes. every, they have, no team has committed practice violations more. It's unbelievable. I can think of one team that's had more violations. You think the Patriots have cheated more often?

I guess the Patriots have not gotten caught as often. I don't know. I'm definitely not getting into that situation. I'm just saying, the Ravens seem to be getting fined a lot. While we're on the Patriots, let's chat about Josh Gordon very briefly. I mean, obviously it's huge news. He gets traded to New England for a conditional fifth round pick. How do you think this is going to go?

I think it doesn't necessarily worry me in the same way we were on a podcast yesterday with Bill Simmons and Ryan Rissilo. Bill is very worried about this. I think that it's a kind of a no-lose situation because there's a couple things. Number one here is that this team made the Super Bowl in a year where they signed Ocho Sinko, Albert Haynesworth, those guys. They've had a lot of reclamation projects and they ran sort of the gamut as far as working and not working. The spectrum was very wide. But no sort of locker room cancer or a player with the possibility to be a locker room cancer has ever sunk this season for the Patriots. There are some locker rooms where a guy can come in and just ruin the culture.

It's just not going to happen in New England. Belichick is, I know that there's a lot of different ways to look about Belichick, but one thing he actually is, is he's fairly humble in his decision making. if he made a mistake, he will move on very, very quickly. Think about how many... That's where I'm sitting with this. So, like, if it doesn't work, he's just going to move on. He does it all the time. If it literally, if Josh Gordon doesn't look good on Sunday,

and he's like, I don't know, he's kind of a dick. Like, Belichick could come him next week. I don't know. I mean, he does that sort of thing all the time. Josh Gordon isn't really a bad guy, though, is he? He's just someone who doesn't show up. I mean, like, and if that's the case, they don't think he's a bad guy.

I just think, I think he's a bad guy. I just think that it's a, when I say locker room cancer, I don't mean he's just going to start like, you know, screwing up the chemistry by getting in fights or whatever. He's not Percy Harvin. But what I mean is that like if he's not getting with the program in some locker rooms that can hurt morale and in New England you'll just get cut.

I think the ceiling is very, very high. I think Josh Gordon still has a lot of athleticism. I think he has the capability to in the right system be a very good player. Do I think that's going to happen? Not necessarily. But I do know this is very low risk, so I'm certainly not freaking out about it. It's a fifth round pick.

He's making $697,000 for the rest of the season. You do this 100 times out of 100. Who cares if it goes bad? You cut him the next day and you move on. I mean, this is a team that has cycled through Kenny Britt and Eric Decker. I mean, for the last time ever long. They signed Corey Coleman. I mean, how much is Corey Coleman making this year?

I guarantee you was about as much as I guarantee you that Corey Coleman was pretty much the same price tag as Josh Gordon. Who cares? It literally does not matter. You bring in a guy with that sort of talent, especially when you're hurting for a vertical option in your office. Coleman, $630,000 this year. So $790,000 for Gordon. It's the same price. I mean, you do this.

I don't know how it's going to go, but you do this. I'm excited to watch it. I mean, I feel like it could be awesome. it could be an instant hit, I also think that it could just never go anywhere. But the possibility for the former is worth the risk every single time. I agree.

I just think there's not really a huge downside here. I totally agree with you. All right, let's move on. Let's get to this week's take shop. These are the takes that we're still working on a little bit. They're not fully formed. We're still tinkering a tiny bit. Kevin, why don't you start?

Okay. I'm delivering this take shop to be workshopped by the masses. Are we sure Carson Wen should start this weekend? And this seemed to be a concern in the ringer slack last week when the Eagles lost and it felt like he was going to get put back on the field this week. I don't know if I'm not worried. Okay.

Why do you think he shouldn't? If he's medically clear, the guy's been practicing. Yeah, he's medically clear for contact on Monday. Is that right? Yes, Monday. He'll play on Sunday. I think the prevailing theory here is that if Nick Foles had, looked better the first two weeks,

then maybe they wouldn't have put him out there the same week that he was cleared. You would let him practice for a week. Yeah, you let him practice. You'd get acclimated to it. The speed of the game is a big thing. I mean, I've talked a million times about, you know, ACL, there's just little thing,

stepping up in the pocket, being comfortable, not bailing. I mean, I'm not, you got, look at a guy like Derek Carr. That's not an ACL, that was a broken leg. But Derek Carr is getting rid of the ball in 2.1 seconds, okay? if he never has a leg injury, never has a traumatic injury like that in 2016, does he hang in there a little bit more? Nah, that's always been his MO. Okay, I'm not 2.1 seconds, though.

That has always been his thing. The previous staff at Oakland was always frustrated with the fact that he just would refuse to push the ball. I mean, he really does not let plays develop. He takes stuff that's there very quickly. Maybe this is an exaggerated version, but he's always had that inclination. 2.1 seconds is if he does it over a full season done over the last two weeks would be the fastest any quarterback has ever gotten rid of the ball in a history of... I understand that, but that's not in Wenz's DNA.

Okay, but no, of course not. And we were on a podcast yesterday, the same one I referenced earlier, and they said, who's going to be the best quarterback in three years? And I said Carson Wenz. I think you look at the passing charts and you look at, you know, PFF did a breakdown of the routes and how much better he was at every single route than, the rest of the league. And the answer is he can throw any route at an elite level. Doesn't matter. Post, in, out.

He's, some receivers and some quarterbacks excel at, you know, a handful of things. He's really good at everything. I think Carson Wentz is going to return to being an elite quarterback at the very latest, the week one of 2019. This might be a weird year for him. I just, I worry a little bit about just, you know, a six-day turnaround. Again, this is a take shop. I'm not even 100% convinced I'm right.

I'm just throwing it out there. I just, I would love to have seen maybe one more, two more full starts. I can understand that. I also think that if he's physically ready, they've been watching him practice for a while. Yeah, of course. And I feel like they have a good handle on where is he, where he's at physically, how comfortable he looks, all that stuff. Also, this start looked a lot less scary a week ago.

I mean, the Colts defense played very well against Washington. I mean, Darius Leonard looks awesome. And their interior of the defensive line, I was very impressed by them. I mean, Brandon Shurf got hurt for a little bit in that game, but I thought that the Colts were just surprising. So, I mean, this is a defense that actually might have a couple of guys on it. It's not going to be a walkover in the way you would have thought. So I can understand where you're coming from.

I also just feel like if he's ready, if he's medically ready to play, he should just play. I mean, they are, they've been waiting for so long. It does feel like they've been in a holding pattern in the first couple weeks. I know Nick Foles is a hero,

but it just, I don't know, you get the sense that they were just ready for this to happen and they needed it. Yeah, I get that. I just, I don't know. I think Carson Wentz,

again, is going to be the best quarterback in football very, very soon. If he wasn't last year, I mean, I think until December 1st last year, he was the best quarterback. quarterback in football. He can return to that very quickly. I just don't want to see any long-term

damage. I mean, I can't even tell, I can't separate the Deshaun Watson thing right now. Is some of his play sort of him still recovering and just the mental rehabilitation, which a lot of times takes longer than the physical just because you don't necessarily trust your leg and all that stuff? Or is it just he has a crappy offensive line? And that's that. I can't. I think he's seeing ghosts right now. I agree. I mean, that's where I lean, but I can, I understand. When you say seeing ghost, is that because he gets hit on every other dropback or because he tore his ACL last year? That's what I mean. You don't think the ACL has anything to do with it?

It may be a compounding factor, but I would definitely attribute it much more to what's going out with that offensive line. I agree. I mean, we need to save Deshaun. We've already talked about it. All right, I've got two very quick ones. The first one I want to throw out there. I know it's only two weeks. I feel like Derwin James is going to be like an all-time draft missed by certain teams.

Okay. To let that guy fall out to 17 is just mind-boggling. I went back and I watched that game again and just looked at all of his plays. The amount of stuff he does, I can't even comprehend it. I mean, all right, so let's look at these numbers. He played 53 snaps. All right, so so far this season, he's played 53 snaps at free safety, 37 in the box, 13 is a slot corner, and 11 lined up on the line.

He has six pressures as a pass rush. shirt. That's twice as much as any other safety in the league. And he's had, excuse me, he's had multiple past breakups already. 12 safeties in the league have done that. This is all from PFF. This is the second game. He's two games in his career. Every once in a while, there's a guy that comes along. You watch him in college and it's just like, that dude's good. Like, I don't know where he's going to play. I don't know what the answer is. That dude is good. Just play him everywhere. And I'm so glad the Chargers have embraced that. They've essentially said we know exactly what this guy's skill set is.

It is wide ranging. He does a ton of stuff well and we're going to let him do all of that. I mean, he had a sack, a tackle for loss, and then he ran 25 yards down the field with Charles Clay up to see him and just knocked the pass away. How many guys in the NFL can do all of that in a game? What's strange is that he's exactly what we thought he was going to be. Yes. It wasn't like, oh, wow.

We just had no clue that this was going to happen. No, no, no, no, we knew. And he just dropped for no reason. You watch the Bucks defense. And you watch Chris Conti run around back there. It's like, I cannot believe this team does not have Thurgo and James. Yeah. Well, they have a run-stopping defensive tackle.

Is that right? Awesome. Who hasn't played? Great stuff. Vita Via has not played. I was wondering if he had or and I hadn't seen him. But, you know, there's only one player on the Bucks. And his name is Ryan Fitzpatrick.

That's true. So it doesn't really matter. All right, I had one more very quick one. You mentioned this briefly on the pod we did with Rissau and Bill yesterday, but I wanted to dig into it a little bit more. Is Leonard Furnett good for the Jigs? Is he a positive influence on the Jaguars? So the theory being, and we've practiced on two pods now,

is that they go into a conservative shell when they have... A predictable conservative shell. Yeah, when they have Leonard Fournet, and when they don't have Leonard Fournet, stay aggressive and they act like a functioning offense. I'm not saying I don't think Leonard Fernand is good. I think he's immensely

talented. I actually think used in the right ways he could be awesome. But they just do such boring stuff with him. They line up, they pound the ball. It's just stuff that you see coming from a mile away. And I just, I watch that

offense without him and there's throwing it around, they're spreading it out. It's like, is this the best version of the Jaguars? Did they do this backwards? Queen Monday morning quarterback, the 2017 draft. Sure. Mahomes and Deshawn Watson go after. Jamal Adams goes after.

Marshawn Lattimore goes after. A lot of picks. Could have helped the old Jaguars there. I mean, shit. There's no way they would pick the quarterback, though. Let me ask you a question. Is Christian McCaffrey a better fit for the Jaguars in Leonard Fournett? It's hard for me to say that. I don't think Leonard Fernette, in terms of his skills, is a

bad fit. I think what Leonard Furnett does to Nathaniel Hackett and that offense is bad. I feel like Leonard Furnett could be a very decent pass catcher. I think they could absolutely use him in smart ways and give him the ball in the open field and just let him truck corners left and right. I don't think this is Leonard Furnett's fault. I just feel like what he motivates the Jaguars to be is a negative thing. I agree. All right, let's move on. I've been floating that. That's my, that for me for the last two weeks has been one step beyond a take shop. I don't know what that is. Oh, you're there. It's not quite a take, but I'm not

in the take shop with it. I'm driving it out of the take shop. It's painted and ready to go. Here's why I'm still there, and here's why I'm just still tinkering. Bortles is Bortles, and I don't know if last week is just like something that will never happen for the rest of the season. And I also feel like Ferdat is

so talented that there is a way for them to positively use him and find the right role for him that still unlocks the rest of their offense. I have faith in his skills and just his overall talent and potential. So that's why I'm still, you know, working on it a little bit. Perfect. Before we move on, let's take a quick break. Today's episode is brought to you by MyBooky. People always ask me for advice. Usually it's what team to bet on this week. The truth is, I don't know who's going to win. But if you think you

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All right, let's get to the three biggest games of the week. Let us start with the king at this point. Patrick Mahomes. The Kansas City Chiefs against the San Francisco 49ers, this is a fun one. I feel like there is going to be, as there was last week, a lot of scoring. Yeah, so Roto World had a good stat. Kansas City Chiefs are allowing 46.9 yards per possession to opposing offenses. That is the most in the National Football League.

That should go without saying. Jimmy Garoppolo not asked to do a lot last week kind of a weird game very strange game a week ago I think we're going to learn a lot about Jimmy Garoppolo on Sunday not just because he's kind of battling

the new him the new hype machine but because this Kansas defense especially their secondary is not very good and if you can't take advantage of that then I'm trending towards worrying about Jimmy Groplo

If you are playing fantasy football I would buy a low on George Kittle right now, right at this exact moment. He's seeing a ton of targets. He was getting held left and right against Detroit. I feel like that connection is going to be huge, and I feel like it's going to show up in a big way on Sunday.

I love Dante Pettis. I think he's going to be so fun in that offense. I really think this group is going to come around. I feel like that the Detroit game was not quite there. They ran the ball extremely well. So the passing game didn't necessarily, it wasn't

clicking on all cylinders the way I felt it was going to, Matt Brita looks great. This really makes the Georg McKinnon signing kind of look silly. I mean, watching what Matt Brita is doing right now,

it's like, this is the argument against paying $7.5 million a year for a running back. He was fantastic. Ever notice how interesting it is that everything that a running back does

makes investing a lot in a running back seem silly? Yes. We just had the Fournette discussion. We'll have the Sequin Barclay discussion, pretty much every other pod for the next 15 weeks.

I don't know. Maybe a trend is emerging, Robert. Who knows? Maybe it is. I still have a lot of faith. Gropolo has not played well, but I think that this offense is, will find its stride.

A couple of guys on the defense that I've been impressed by. I mean, for the most part, I guess it's just one. I really like Fred Warner. I, hey, he's just, my number one draft crush. Came in, is played well.

You know, I just flying around. I mean, I think that's a great fit. When they get Foster back, yeah, I feel like that parry. Exactly. they activated him today. So he'll be, he's playing this week. So I feel like that pairing in the middle is going to be really fun.

Weather Spoon has struggled. I was excited for him coming in. I felt like he was a guy that if he took a leap, it could be very important for their defense. He's had a rough go of it so far. So we'll see. I mean, this defense is going to have an issue against Kansas City, but I think all teams are.

So Rivers McCown at a football outsider's good thing for ESPN today, I think. where he did the most unbalanced teams in the NFL. And it should not surprise you that the chiefs are the most unbalanced. In the sense, they had the fourth best offense and the 31st best defense, the 27 place gap being by far the biggest in the NFL. And I think we're just going to get into these weekly things, especially when you play a good offense like San Francisco,

just how many points can the Chiefs offense put up? What is the upper limit? I think the answer at this point is enough. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I don't have enough faith in San Francisco's defense to say that the chiefs aren't going to put a 35 again. Yeah. They put up 42. Yeah.

I mean, this is, I believe what's happening right now. I'm writing about this on Thursday. Just about how is the Fitzpatrick thing sustainable? Is it not? What are they doing that's different? And I feel like when you look at Tampa Bay and then you look at the Chiefs, with the Bucks, like, we've seen Ryan Fitzpatrick. We have a decade of Ryan Fitzpatrick. We know what he is.

we don't know what Mahomes is. Who knows? I mean, he's not going to throw 80 touchdown passes, but could he throw 38? Probably. Why not? That group of weapons and the way they're playing right now, I just have every reason to believe

that this is going to be one of the best offices to league the entire year, even if it's not what they're doing right now. Yeah, without a doubt. Let's get to the next one, the Battle of Los Angeles, Rams Chargers. Man, they are banging on pots and pans in the street here.

I cannot even imagine. I'm sure it's pandemonium. Anybody talking about Rams Chargers? This is a really fun game. I mean, obviously the Rams are just rolling right now. I mean, this is an offense that is completely stacked. I mean, the defense has been phenomenal. I mean, I don't know.

Watching the Rams over the last couple weeks and watching the Chargers, it just feels like the Chargers are really going to struggle to move the ball. I mean, I am really disappointed just in general. about the way the Chargers running game has looked. I mean, even against the bills, they were really not getting a lot going. So if they can't run the ball and they have to sling it around against this secondary,

I don't know how they're going to move it. So Joy Boas is out again. That's official. Yep. On defense, Philip Rivers, high-octane offense, Marcus Peters and Akib Taleb have allowed 37 yards combined

through two weeks. That's from Mike. I mean, obviously they played against Derek Carr, who didn't know where he was and Sam Bradford. But that's still ridiculous. I mean, I, yeah. I mean, as Mike Runner points out,

85 different cornerbacks have allowed more than that on their own. They're stacked. They are exactly, they're the Derwin James of teams. We knew exactly what we were going to get from them and they're doing it. And I think... It's a decent plan.

I think the Rams are going to win this game quite easily. What do we think? Are the Chargers going to be the first team that visit the Coliseum that don't have a large group of visiting fans even though they play in the city? Oh, yeah. That's a bummer.

How many Chargers fans will be there? 12? Hey, what would happen if the Rams played at Stubbub. I don't know. There are actual Rams fans. No, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying would the Rams invade Stubhub. Yeah, probably.

Wow. Why wouldn't they? I don't know. Because the Rams aren't that popular. If you're the Chargers in this game, how do you go about attacking that defense. I just feel like we're going to see

so many Melvin Gordon receptions in this game. I mean, I feel like the only way to kind of go at them in a smart manner is just to attack those linebackers. The charges have thrown the ball extremely well, but I just don't know how it's going to happen. I have no idea how they're going to actually get something going

if it's not Gordon in the passing game. Yeah, I don't think the charges are going to win this game. I feel like the charges are a decent matcher for this team just in the sense that, you know, they run so much a letter. you pretty much have to stay in nickel the entire game. And the Chargers have the corners to just match up with those guys. But, man, they look so good.

Cooks was awesome last week. I mean, just throwing him into that group. It's almost not even fair. All right. Third game. Let's get to the NFC-South matchup of the week, the Falcons, and the Saints. I've got an interesting staff for you here. Okay.

So, you know, last year, essentially Alvin Kamara, no one in the league faced eight or more man boxes less often. 16.67% of his carries, second in the NFL behind Gio Bernard. What do you think that number is this year? I actually don't know. 57.1. Hmm. He's second in the league again, except it's the opposite.

Hmm. Only Royce Freeman has run into eight or more man boxes more often this year than Alvin Kamara. Wait, why is everyone stacking the box against Royce Freeman? I mean, I think that's just a personnel thing. I mean, I assume that, like, that's what you know. Royce human's got a lot of his carries near the goal wine. That's a big part of it as well. So I was curious about this.

I was like, man, that is surprising. So I went back and I watched the game against Cleveland again. He had 13 carries. Three of those. Only three came out of 11 personnel or later. And two of those 11 personnel carries came with Austin Carr and Michael Thomas directly next to the line of scrimmage. Almost like they were tight ends.

So only one of his plays was an actual spread out formation where they ran the ball. That seems weird. I just don't understand how you're approaching your running game that way. I have no idea. I quietly don't know what's going on in New Orleans. They should have lost to the Browns. Maybe there's a rhyme or reason behind that, but it was just odd to watch. I mean, when you had so much success doing the opposite last year, why would you pack it in and run the ball?

I mean, maybe it's just a lack of faith in Cam Meredith's health and Trequan Smith and you feel like you need two tight ends on the field. But I was really surprised going back and watching that. It just did not look like the Saints offense we know. Yeah, I mean, I still believe Sean Payton is one of the best offensive minds in football. So I guess, I don't know. Give a time. But, I mean, last week was extremely weird and week one was extremely weird.

I mean, the Mark Ingram suspension is not that big of a deal. No, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. I thought it was going to have. I thought that Mark Ingram was suspension was going to be like Leonard-Fornette. injury. Just like, this is actually quietly good. Oh, I never thought that. I feel like they switch off so well. And I feel like that offense is such a

No, I just meant like clear the way. I don't think that Ingram was a subtraction, but I just mean like clear the way for Kamar to become a, you know, transcendent player. You know what I'm saying? That's fine. But I also feel like him being the lead back actually might be part of the reason behind this. He's not like the change of peace guy anymore that comes in in these weird

scenarios. So, I mean, I I don't understand why you would say, okay, we're going to use Alvin Kamara as this like bang into the line running back because we don't have Mark Engram anymore. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know. We'll see what happens. I have no theories on this.

I feel like Kamara could catch 20 passes this weekend. Yeah, because they've lost the entire spine of their defense. If they can, I mean, this is like the Jimmy Kropola versus Kansas City thing. If the Saints can't take advantage of what has happened to Atlanta the last couple weeks, that's on them. Yeah, I totally agree. Another thing to, I mean, I feel like Atlanta's offense looks really good last week. Tevin Coleman, Tevin Coleman's good, man. What do you think Tevin Coleman is going to warn in a free agency this offseason?

He's number one in the NFL and breakaway percentage. And I saw this. So he's a free agent in the off season. The Falcons have $26 million in room. There's no way they can bring him back. Right. Jerry McKinnon made $7.5 million in free agency this year. Tevin Coleman probably deserves more money than Jerich McKinnon, right?

Yeah, probably. I mean, that McKinnon deal was a little bit above what McKinnon was probably owed. Sure, but that's now the market. I mean, that sets the bar. If you're Tevin Coleman's agent, you're walking into free agency. Aren't you starting with that number? Yeah, Freeman was making, what, 80 year? So it's eight and a half, I believe.

So if they paid both of them, obviously, they'd be paying $16 million to their running back room. No team in the NFL pays that much. the bills are number one. I think that's a 12.72 million total cap hit to that group this year with Lashon McCoy. Obviously, the Cowboys are up there, the Jags are up there. My advice is to not build the way the bills built. Or with like the old school Panthers where you paid two running backs like the sticker

price. What the hell was that? He was guaranteed to hit the market. What was that? It's a great question. Good for you, Marty, Herney. And then he got his job back. Yes.

it's amazing. Yeah, it makes absolutely no sense. So you have Tavent Coleman. I mean, I always loved how much they were getting the ball on the perimeter to him last week, a lot of pitches. I mean, he's just so good if he can get that edge.

I mean, you're looking at a guy as he hits for agency with 386 career carries. Yeah. That guy's going to get paid. Yeah, it's funny. I talked to Dimitchoff about this, but the running back aging curve

and whether or not it's changing just with the, I guess, the limits on carries a lot of teams have. You know, we talk about the rule of 370. I think that, you know... Well, that's not even... No one's going to get there anymore.

Never. I mean, Todd Gurley has not carried the ball 300 times in a season in his career, and he never will. Coleman has 386 carries in his career. Right. And so what I'm saying, you know, it's interesting, but I think Dimitrov wants a second guy like that, but I just don't think he can bring a guy.

I don't... I think the Tevin Coleman price tag is going to get a little too rich for them. Absolutely. Grady Jarrett's a free agent. I mean, you have to re-sign Grady Jared if you're going to re-sign one of those guys. So, I mean, there's just no way financially they can do it. They're spending way too much on their offense. Also, Andy Livitre out for the season.

That's worth mentioning. Again, this team was immensely healthy last season. Such great injury luck. And it's already come back. It's already come back on them. We see this all the time. I mean, Andy Lovitre is maybe the least important player on their offense. except for Brandon Fusco

but it's still I mean you have to shift guys around when you start the musical chairs it's never a good thing yeah I mean the injury luck I mean it's been a little bit ridiculous through two weeks I mean I just I do think that the Dion Jones

and Ken O'Neal injuries set them back to the point where I don't necessarily expect a playoff spot from them and then Lovitre I mean it just gets worse it's not like Matt Ryan has lit it up to the point where I think that their skill players are going to overcome all here.

No, I totally agree. They looked pretty good last week. I was impressed. So, I mean, we'll see if they can keep that going. But I love the Calvin Ridley play, the third down calling with the red zone. That was excellent. So I like, I feel like those guys are good enough. They're going to be all right.

One of the thing I wanted to mention, watching the Brown Saints game again from last week, Toronto Armstead is incredible. Watching him go against Miles Garrett is amazing. This is kind of a, I'm doing two geek out things. this is my first one, I guess. The difference he does with his past sets where he'll, like, fake certain types of sets to kind of coax defensive ends

into doing a certain thing, and then he'll react to that is unbelievable. I mean, that is like, I have a PhD in offensive line play stuff. He is a fantastic player. I mean, it's right now, I'm not sure it went healthy. Maybe Tyron Smith.

I mean, David Boktiari is an incredible pass blocker as well. but I mean, our stead is right up there. That hasn't really been on my radar. Yeah, I'm shocked about that. All right, let's move on to my actual Mays Geeks out segment of the week. I want to talk a little bit about the play calling to watch in the Chiefs 49ers game. And specifically just what a couple, what these teams do very well. One of the plays, we talked about this very briefly on the Rosillo Bill Pod yesterday,

but I didn't get into it. on the first Kelsey touchdown against the Steelers. They lined up in shotgun, and they brought, I believe, Tyree Kill across in motion to the right. And that's where Kelsey was in the slot. I tweeted a giff of this, but you'll see Mahomes scoot hunt over to his right. They run four verticals out of that set.

When a lot of teams run four verticals, they'll run like a little burst route with a running back to kind of keep the middle of the field occupied. Instead of that, they ran a swing with Kareem, hunt. And what that did is it pulled the flat defender up. So what essentially that leaves you is against cover two, you have a hill riding or running wide open down the right side line. And you have Kelsey sprinting up the scene. And you have to have that deep half safety decide between them. And he didn't decide either. Both of them were wide open. And that's like

the little tweaks when you watch the chiefs. And it's like, holy shit, they're good at this. like that is a perfect distribution of those three routes to put the most stress possible on a defense. So when you're watching this week, and it's going to have to rely on replays because you can't really see this stuff on the broadcast angle necessarily, but just watch the distribution of where those guys are

and the spacing of those routes. They do such an incredible job of making defenders wrong just by how these plays are designed. So I just want to talk big picture for a second. Andy Reid loses Doug Peterson, replaced him with Matt Nagy, loses Matt Nagy,

replaces him with the running backs coach. And they're getting better on offense. Every single time, they're getting better on offense. So Nagy told me this before the season. I thought it was super interesting. He was an assistant in Philadelphia. Yeah.

I mean, that's where he got his start. And in Philly, Marty Morningwick essentially ran the offense. You know, he obviously called the plays, but he ran the meetings. He did the installs. You know, Marty Morningwick was in charge. of the offense.

And when they got there to Kansas City, in the first meeting they had, Reed comes in, and he essentially on the table puts the entire two-minute hurry up they're going to run that season. He's like, I came up with this. And now he does the install.

He's in charge. That is Andy Reid's offense. Yep. Which I think you're seeing the rewards of that. He's a really damn good coach. Yeah. It's amazing. I mean, the fact that he kind of was reinvigorated when he got to KC and because there wasn't this long-term, you know, stable program in place, he's like, all right,

I got to take the reins again. Do you know what his winning percentage is in Kansas City? 67%. It's amazing. It was 58% in Philadelphia when he almost made the playoffs space clear every year. It's an incredible, I mean, he is such an incredible coach. He's at a winning season every single year, who went 9 and 7 one year in Kansas City. He's a really good coach, gang. The designs of that offense are so great. I mean, I think Mahomes is really good,

and I think that he's playing fantastic, but I also think that he's gotten so much of a leg up just by what that offense looks like on paper. And then we know how I feel about Shanahan. I mean, just watch some of the play action stuff that happens. Just watch how they manipulate the middle of the field by moving linebackers, everything else, by, you know, sending tight ends and kind of weird, like weird routes,

weird kind of just like bursts off the line out of play action coming across the formation. I mean, the guy schemes people open in a way that very few coaches in the NFL do. And you can say the same for Reid. I mean, these are two of the best going at it. And that's what I'm most excited to watch on Sunday. Okay. Time for the, time for the truth. Truth bomb.

What do we call in the segment? Sneaky truth? Sneaky truth. Kevin's dirty secret. Something like that. We're going to have the take shop. The name is for that. Yeah, that sounds good.

We're going to change it in week four. Okay. So let's talk with Seahawks. a second. Just saw us on PFF. Earl Thomas, best safety in the NFL so far this season. Exactly what we thought he was going to be. I think the defense is pretty good. It's struggling. It's struggling without Wagner and with the back of the points. I think they have, I think that they have for what they have right now, they're playing as well as they can play. Fair. That's my viewpoint on this. That offense is what it is. And that's the truth here.

that offense is not going to get better because, and I saw a writer say this, I'm not sure, they chose philosophy over the person. They chose to go the Brian Schottenheimer route because they wanted to run a Brian Schottenheimer type offense. Who wants to do that? I can tell you who, the Seattle Seahawks. Everyone knew that Brian Schottenheimer was going to be a disaster as an offensive. coordinator. I like Brian Schottenheimer personally. But as an offensive coordinator, we knew exactly what we were going to get and we got it. The Brian Schottenheimer hire is the Kalil

Mac trade of hires. We all, we all, it's indefensible. At least the clue Mac trade is defensible in some way. I think they're both pretty bad, dude. What I'm saying is that we looked at it and we were like, wow, this is a bad idea. You probably shouldn't do this. and then it turned out that was the 100% correct take. These are two of the rare instances where conventional wisdom is 100% correct. The run game thing is bizarre. I think they can't make up their mind on how they want to approach the run game in Seattle right now. I think that the offensive line has created a situation where Russell Wilson cannot be Russell Wilson,

and then everything flows through that. I think the offense is too conservative and I don't see any reason to believe that this offense is going to get any better. Did you see that stretch where Wilson went to the line against the Bears? Wilson went to the line, he checked. They ran the play, went back to the huddle,

came back to the line again, they checked again, and they called time out with 17 seconds left on the playcock. Yeah. So Carol tried to explain this away by saying they were trying to get in the right play, which that's an interesting thing to do when there's 17 seconds left on the play clock. It just, and Wilson was clearly frustrated.

And it just doesn't look like he has any faith in what they're sending into the game right now. Maybe, why would you? Maybe Russell Wilson is frustrated because he's 29 years old. That's an age where I think 29 through about 32 or your peak years of quarterback because you still have the physical tools

and you're smart enough to process things you know a lot about football, okay? That's why typically, you know, that the early 30s is where you peak. And maybe he's looking around. Doug Baldwin is nursing an injury that is going to hamper him all season, even if he plays the majority of these games.

He's so important to what they do. When we have no idea what his outlook is his season, but he has basically said that it's going to hamper him all season. So maybe the frustration on Russell Wilson's side is that he knows his peak years might be wasted. The offensive line has no path to getting better. Pete Carroll has hired Brian Schottenheimer, even though he should have gone out and gotten a guy

who's going to maybe accentuate Russell Wilson's strengths. If you're Russell Wilson right now, how are you feeling long term? I saw a thing the other day, Jason Lock and Forre said at first, that they haven't talked extension. Russell Wilson and the Seahawks have not talked to extension. Now, it's not entirely, you know, it's not urgent for them.

He signed the four-year deal in 2015. But if you're Russell Wilson, who, by the way, hired his baseball agent, came from a baseball background. He tried to change the game a little bit with that contract. Didn't really work. But he signed a four-year, $87 million deal, $61 guaranteed. He's an undrified for 2019. If you're Russell Wilson, are you not looking at it and saying I can be the rich man's Kirk Cousins? I can reach free agency somehow, have a bidding war and make an ungodly sum of money on a team that I can basically, that will build around me instead of actively trying to harm me?

I give you 20 to one odds that Russell Wilson is not on the Seahawks at the start of next season. Would you take that? 2019? I think he's there in 2019. I think he's there. What do you think they could get for him? So wait, wait. So Pete Carroll is also 67 years old. So is Pete Carroll going to want to stick around for another rebuild?

That's a good point. If you could get three first round picks for Russell Wilson, would you do it? Yes. If I'm the Seahawks? Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't see a clear path to winning the Super Bowl with him. I just think there's too many holes on the team.

I think you just maybe you blow it. up a little bit. I think Russell Wilson, in my infamous quarterback rankings of 2016, I ranked him as the best quarterback in football. And I still think he is at the upper echelon. I just think the infrastructure is not there for him. I get upset about it, just as a football fan. I think Russell Wilson should be in the peak years of his career. And I don't like it. Do I think that he has a chance to play the rest of his career with Seattle? Absolutely. He's Mr. Gohawks and all that stuff. But I'm just starting to think when I look at the Seahawks team and what they've built around him

that maybe this is not the place for him. Would you trade three first round picks for Russell Wilson if you were another team? So who has an excess of first round picks? The Oakland Raiders. Wouldn't do it from them. Too many holes.

Would you do it if you're... I mean, I don't know who's a quarterback way. Wait if you're the Jaguars. The Jags are 11 million over the happened 2019 already. I mean, that's, there's your problem.

That is the team I was thinking of, but there's just no way they can make that work. There's not many candidates. That's the problem. So many teams have quarterback plans that they're committed to that it just doesn't feel like

the market would be there. I mean, the Vikings, obviously, there's a reason they did the Kirk Cousin saying the Jets are now out of it with Darnold for the foreseeable future. Cardinals are spoken for. I think the fact there were five first round

quarterbacks this year. It changes the conversation for sure. It changes the conversation a little bit. You know, I have an idea if so I don't really know I mean how long do we think someone like Philip Rivers is going to play how long do we think that's a good point like Drew Breeze is going to play and and obviously yeah but I don't think those teams are willing to give up that much with those guys still there obviously obviously and then you know the

the Steelers are another good example they're not going to give up three first round picks but you know I don't I think one of those guys have to retire first they're not going to I think I agree it's not going to be a Teddy Bridgewater situation where they give up a second round pick while the guy's still there. I mean, if you're going to trade two or three first round picks, the guy has to play immediately. That's not a future building thing. I totally agree. All right, before we get out of here, let's talk about one of those first round quarterbacks very briefly. Sam Darnold and the Jets playing against the Browns tonight. What do you think? What are you looking for? I don't care. I'm kidding. Jets win, but the Browns give it a go. Yeah.

I will see what happens. The Browns have been very disappointed to me so far. I got to tell you. So you know how I keep saying that I'm not picking anybody except the Patriots to win the AFC? Like you just can't do it. Even if the Chiefs are up 14 points

going into the fourth quarter of the AFC championship game, I'm just going to be like, until the clock strike zero, I'm picking the Patriots, right? That is exactly how I feel about the Browns winning a game. I'm not going to pick the Browns

to win a game until they win a game. All right, on that note, that's all we got for this week, guys. As always, really appreciate you listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network.