The Ringer NFL Show - Eight Teams That Should Trade for Davante Adams

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

With Raiders star receiver Davante Adams requesting out of Las Vegas, it’s time for Sheil Kapadia and Nora Princiotti to rev up the hypothetical trade machine. It’s an exciting time for Sheil, and so he enthusiastically tells Nora his list of eight teams that should make a run at Adams, ranging from an urgency level of “let’s get the Raiders on the phone soon” to “drop whatever you’re doing and abandon all non-football responsibilities” (00:00). After that, Steven Ruiz recaps Week 4 by doling out his four weekly QB awards (45:20). Check out Ruiz's article "The Winners and Losers of Week 4" here. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Nora Princiotti, and Steven Ruiz Producer: Troy Farkas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A restaurant's best dishes tell stories. Their flavors embed themselves in our memory like song lyrics or lines from a movie. So much so that a little slice of a restaurant's story can become part of our own. I'm Danny Chow and this is ShiftMeal, a new video podcast from The Ringer where we're sharing a bite and chopping it up with chefs and restaurant people during their off hours. All episodes of Shift Meal are out now on Ringer food. Welcome to the Ringer NFL. show Shield Capadia here. You know, the content gods, sometimes they come through. And today, they came through. I'm joined by my friend Nora Princiotti. We were brainstorming some ideas

earlier today. And then we got a little breaking news, a little Instagram like, a little trade request involving Devante Adams and Nora. Now we have a very easy, fun topic, one of my favorite topics to talk about fake trades involving what will probably become a real trade at some point here. Yeah, five weeks with the deadline. Let's go. Devante Adams, come on down. That's right. So the origin of this was interesting, Nora, this, I don't know if you caught this story, but Antonio Pierce liked a Sports Illustrated post on Instagram that wondered whether Adams had played his last game with the team. Now, I don't know if you were a fan of Ballers like I was, the wonderful HBO series that about 25 of us watched. But this feels like this

could have filled a nice 30-minute time slot for them. So I have to confess that I was not into not a big ballers stand. Although, you know, there's still time. I could go back and check it out. I value your recommendations, Sheal. But I think 30 minutes, like, I think they could stretch a couple episodes out of this because this, to me, you can even kind of trace it back further, right? where, you know, you have the business decisions comment from Antonio Pierce. I think that led to some speculation that DeVante Adams was one of the players that he was sort of calling out for not giving their all. Then you have this sort of strange situation where Adams apparently gets hurt at the end of practice. He's then considered week to week.

his status feels very sort of like on-ice, tentative, kind of what you might expect for a player who's upset with his bosses, upset with the team, doesn't want to be there anymore, and who the team is going, okay, we've reached the end of the road here. Let's make sure he doesn't get really hurt

so that we can get as much as possible in a trade because one way or another he's on his way out. So this has been kind of, you know, And then you add the Instagram likes. You add Adams goes on Kay Adams's show and is like Antonio Pierce hasn't talked to me since that story broke. Like there's some real cinematic, cinematic stuff here. Show writers could go crazy with it.

Yeah. Nice job. I don't think that shows. I don't think Ballers is coming back. But you never know. Maybe a reboot in their future. And now they would have some material to work with. So I guess I should have, you know, gone over what we're going to do in the show.

But I got too excited. Fake trades. What's better than fake trade? It's a juicy story. Yeah, Nora's joining me for the first half of the show. I have come up with a list of eight teams, Nora, that I think should, could, maybe wildcard, some interested in Devante Adams.

I'm going to run through them with you. You're going to say thumbs up, thumbs down, move them to this category, move them out of this category, and we're going to try to identify the teams most likely to trade for Devante Adams and the teams that really should be in on acquiring Devante Adams. So we're going to do that. And then the second half of the show, Stephen Ruiz joins to talk some quarterbacks who he's spotlighted from week four going in to week five.

So all right, let's do it. Devante Adams. So you went over it, the hamstring injury, the Instagram like, the Kay Adams appearance, all those things. We've got a couple more details here before we get to the teams. One, Adam Schaeffner reporting that a second round pick is kind of the starting point in a Devante Adams trade. And I was doing some digging. I do a lot of this for the trade value column on the ringer.com. And that actually sounds right to me.

Usually the team floats the compensation where you're like, give me a break. They're not getting that. I actually think it too makes. Two first round picks. Yeah. And a ham sandwich. They're only considering it. If they get it.

That's the other like phrase is they're considering. No, please, he's gone. It's October 1st. And we got a guy with a trade request. He's not playing another game for the Raiders. But a second round pick. So I was looking at the Stefan Diggs trade in the off season where he was entering his age 31 season and the Texans traded a two for Stefan Diggs. Now they got back like a day three pick or whatever, some late round picks.

But I think Devante Adams is now entering his age. He is in his age 32 season. I think Adams is a more valuable better player at this point in his career than Stefan Dix. And so I think a two makes sense. I mean, you can even look at, all right, the Eagles traded for John. Han Dotson kind of the equivalent of like a fourth round pick. So it's got to be more than that. And so I actually think that the Raiders will end up getting a second and maybe say a fifth round pick for Devante Adams. What do you think? Does that sound right to you? Or is this a case

of them putting a price out there that might not get met just to see if anyone gives it to him? No, I think it sounds right. The question is going to be if the team that ultimately trades for Adams is able to do anything with his contract, and if that influences the compensation one way or another, because he's making $17.5 million this year, but then in the next two years, the base salary bumps up a lot. It's $35.5 million next year and then $36.5.

This season after that. So that's a significant investment. The twist sort of is that none of those two following years, those expensive years are guaranteed. So you can see why it would be in everybody's best interest to do a little bit of a restructure here. At the very least, you can get the cap numbers down. And I don't know if there's a good way to involve the Raiders in terms of, hey, maybe you take on a little money. You got a little bit more in terms of the trade compensation, draft pick compensation or player compensation.

So I wonder if the money could sort of shift it up or down. but a second and a fifth sounds just about right to me. Can I ask you a question just because you made me think of it, comping him to Diggs? I am with you that Adams is definitely a better player to me right now than Diggs was when that happened. I think he still, and you know, we've even seen it in spurts this season,

which has by no means been successful. He is capable of taking over a game in a way that I think still, you know, qualifies as elite and someone that a team would, you know, really think about being able to put them over the hump. I do, I'm trying to sort of position him in my mind in terms of how excited I think NFL teams would be about going and giving up draft capital and paying a lot of money to have Devonte Adams on their team.

Because in some ways it seems like it should be a no-brainer. oh my gosh, Devante Adams, like elite receiver in the NFL. He's been arguably, you know, the best in certain years. But if I, if I give you his yards per route run over the last five seasons and Seth Walder, who does a great job, put this out there, in 2020 and 2021, it's 3.3. In 2022, it's 2.6. In 2020, it's 2.2. And then this season, it's 1.9.

And so you're basically asking yourself the question, is that number going down because he went from MVP Aaron Rogers to the Raiders with their super chaotic quarterback situation and ineffective offense? Or is at least some of it. And I'm using yards per outrun as a proxy because there are a lot of numbers that you can use to show that, you know, he's he's been regressing a little bit or performing worse and worse over the course of each passing. season is a little bit of it because he is, you know, upwards of 30 and this is eventually what happens to players. So I think you have to, I'm curious for your take on, you know, who exactly is the player that these teams would be thinking that they're getting? Because to me, that's a little bit in flux. Yeah, no, it's a, it's a great point. I am the king of the do not give up too much for wide receivers or corners over 30 club. I mean, it's just,

There's too much evidence. You just gave the numbers. I have, you know, last five years, guys who are 32 or older wide receivers, there have been two examples of a 1,000-yard season. Julian Edelman did it in 2019, and Adam Thielen did it last year in what was a very weird season where he got 137 targets for a terrible Panthers team. But the point is, yes, I mean, we have mountains of evidence that wide receivers at age 32, they are declining players.

They might have a year. They might have two years left. It all obviously depends on the player. There are exceptions. But most of the time, even the great wide receivers are not like number one options at this stage of their career.

So I think it's good to reset the expectations a little bit. Now, maybe he is the exception because that game against the Ravens a couple weeks ago in the fourth quarter. He took over the game. I mean, they don't win that game. He had three explosive catches

in the fourth quarter. order against a defense that just shut down Josh Allen and the bills Sunday night. So it is kind of hard. I think situation's going to matter. Health is going to matter, all those things. But I think you're right. It would be the exception. If he goes on somewhere and has a monster season and looks like a true number one,

that is not what generally happens. That would be the exception for a guy his age. So there you go. And to me what that means is that as you give me these teams here, I've found myself in thinking about where it would make sense for him to go and what would be the most exciting landing spot, leaning a little bit more towards the teams where he could really do something for them this season. Because you're absolutely right to bring up that Ravens game. Like this is a player who's still, you know, especially when he's really, he's engaged, he's motivated, he's feeling it. He can take over a game against a good NFL defense.

I firmly believe Devante Adams is still right now capable of that. And so I lean towards the teams where, you know, they're a little Super Bowl or bust. They're really trying to get it done this year. Whereas building for the future, you know, at 35, 36 million, that's where I start to get a little bit like, talk me into it. Yeah. I'm glad you brought up the contract stuff because it is interesting. There will be owners and GMs and fan bases and reporter. Oh, we can't afford DeVant Adams.

First of all, it's really not true. But Jerry Jones special. Yeah, Jerry Jones is already texting every reporter he knows and telling them that the Cowboys can't afford Devante Adams. I think what you mentioned about the future years not being guaranteed, that's the key. And actually the salary you mentioned, we already get to chop off four weeks of that because the Raiders already paid that. So I was looking at Jason Fitzgerald, who does an awesome job on over the cap.com.

So whoever acquires Devante Adams, you owe him 13 and a half million for the rest of the season and you're not on the hook for anything else. Like those salaries for future years, I don't think any, excuse me, I don't think any team is paying those. So it's kind of like you can restructure and if you want to do something for a future year, you could do that.

But basically this is a should be viewed as a one year rental and then kind of figure it out after that season. So, you know, like I said, any team can make to figure that out. He doesn't have any trade control, right? Because you do wonder if he would, try to throw his weight around on the on the salary a little bit. Yeah, I don't think, I don't think, something like that fully guaranteed, but try to ensure something.

Yeah, I don't think so. But that, that certainly is a good question. And the other thing is, the other point you made is that a team could tell the Raiders, all right, we're only willing to meet this asking price, like you said, if you pick up this much of his salary. And there's always a number where that's going to make sense. I mean, if the Raider said, we'll pick up the whole. thing, except whatever the minimum is that you have to pay by the rules of the salary cap,

then who knows? Would someone say, all right, then we'll give up a two that turns into a one if he has this many yards? So there is a lot of flexibility. There really is no team where it's like, no, you can't do this under any circumstances. So don't buy that stuff at the owners and the GMs try to sell you. That's what I'm telling you. All right, let's get to the team. So I put these teams into three tiers. I came up with eight teams. Okay, we're going to go the first, The first tier is have a meeting, you know, you talk about it, you think about it, you see where you end up after the meeting. The second tier is really consider it. Like this isn't just, yeah, maybe it would be fun, but this is like we should probably make some type of an offer.

We might not go all in for it, but, you know, we need to consider this strongly. Have a meeting and nobody can be eating their lunch during the meeting. I think that's right. Coffee. You know? Yeah. Like sometimes there's a meeting where you can have the sweet green salad. It's casual.

Yeah. No. But then sometimes there's real business to be done. Okay. Yeah. Have a serious meeting. If you're eating the salad, if you're eating the wrap, if you're eating the sandwich, I mean, give me a break.

Nothing serious is getting done at that meeting. So I like how you put that. Yeah, this is the second tier, no one's bringing the salad into that meeting. That's like, you know, they might have a legal pad. Maybe someone brings a laptop. They're looking for, hey, give me my charge. We got stuff to work out here. There's stuff going on there.

And the final one is don't let them get off the phone. This is like emergency. Leave your kids soccer practice. Get in the office. We got to go. This has to happen for us right now. So that's the final one. Abandon your family.

So it goes, have a meeting. Incredibly cheery depiction, by the way, of NFL general managers as people regularly at their kids soccer records. That's right. All right. You can have the meeting, you can have with the salad, you can have the meeting with the laptop, or you abandon your family.

I like it. You just help me workshop those tears. Much more colorful, much better than what I initially came up with. All right, have a meeting, but bring the salads. Here's who I've got. Team number one, the Washington commanders. I feel like I'm sort of leading the commanders hype train among the ringer NFL staffers so far.

I can't hide what my eyes tell me. I know it's only four weeks. I know what happens to Cliff Kingsbury after Halloween. At the same time, I watched Jaydon Daniels, and he's screaming. Superstar to me. They're three and one. They've got Terry McLaren. They don't have a whole lot else.

I know Devante Adams isn't going to put him over the top, Nora. And I know it's not the most responsible move. Like if I was grading this in my nerdy way and was like, this is not a good, great allocation of resources. I understand that. But then if Fun Shield comes out, he doesn't come out often. But if Fun Shield comes out, he would say, your organization has had such bad vibes for so long.

And you know what? You're three and one. The NFC East is wide open. You've got a dynamic quarterback. You've got a good wide receiver at Terry McClure. Make the most of this season. Who cares about a second? Say, what's a second round pick going to be?

Get McLaren, Devante Adams. The fan base is going to be energized. Take a swing and see where this season leads you. So there you go. First contender, the Washington commanders. What do you think? Yeah. I mean, gosh, what a heat check that would be, right?

At this point in the season with the results they've had, but I got to tell, this to me is like, I kind of want to give them a legal pad meeting on this. Because why not? Like, why not? They have the money. They have the money right now. They have $25 million in cap space and they're flush next year if it comes to that. Let's remember that this is a team that flirted very hard with Brandon Ayyuk.

in a move that ultimately didn't work out. So we know that there was interest and, you know, they were thinking about making a splash with a veteran wide receiver. Not only are the vibes so good with the commanders, and they've shown something that seems, you know, with all the cliff caveats real,

they are serious contenders, as you've pointed out, in their division, which looks pretty, you know, faulty in all the other spots. And as you said, if you're a commander's fan, how good would an NFC East division title feel after everything that they've been through?

I mean, I just think it would be really fun. It would certainly be a heat check. But if you look at how their offense is built, you know, the combination with McLaurin is really exciting. And then you do start to look at that roster and go, ooh, man, like, relying a little bit too much on the Zach Ertz's and the Austin Ecklers of the world. Like, I don't know that I trust that. health situation through the course of an entire year. So getting someone in there who you feel

like can be a difference maker, I want the meeting to be serious. I don't want the salads in the meeting. Put the salads away. Put the food away. Get the legal pads. Get the pens. Get the computers out. We've got decisions to make here. All right. So we're bumping up the commanders. All right. Next, team and have a have a meeting. Bring the salads category. The Pittsburgh Steelers. So probably a no, but worth discussing. They're three and one. You just mentioned the IUC point. Great point.

The Steelers, we also know we're very interested in IUC. Now, IUC is in his mid-20s, Devante Adams, as we just outlined. This is probably a rental situation. Do you really think you have a chance to win big this year? You've got O-line injuries. You've got some limitations in the passing game. Then again, got a great defense. You've got Mike Tonlin.

You're three-in-one. Fields and Pickens have a nice chemistry. you had one other player on the outside there, does it start to get interesting? So Pittsburgh Steelers, what do you think? Have a meeting. Why not? Everybody should have meetings.

But to me, you know, maybe it's the salads. Maybe it's the Primanti brothers. Like, this is not a team despite their early successes. That is, to me, enough of a contender this season to be sacrificing resources down the road. And I don't think that even in the version of this offense that's, worked well so far, you know, they are they are built to emphasize that run game. They are built to, I mean, for goodness sakes, all of the hair pulling that we've done over the years about Arthur Smith, not really giving a shit about like maximizing the superstar

receiver, the superstar receiving talent on his team. Like, it's not really how they're built. And if I were the Steelers, I would not consider it ultimately prudent. to be shelling out draft picks right now. They're the most likely on this list. If they did the trade, he would average like three catches for 20 yards in the first month and everyone would be losing their mind.

So I agree with you. I don't think it would make sense for the Pittsburgh Steelers. All right. Last one in this category, have a meeting, have the salads, the Detroit Lions. Now, probably a no. You have enough.

But are you tempted, a little bit, Brad Holmes. A picture, 11 personnel at home, NFC championship game, and you're trotting out, Devante Adams, James, James, and Amon Rae St. Brown. The defense doesn't know what to do. You've got Sam Laporta at tight end. You've got Jamir Gibbs or David Montgomery at running back. You've got the best offensive line in the NFL. You've got a quarterback who just played on Monday night football and did not throw an incompletion. You are making defensive coordinators sweat when they game plan for your football team. They have no idea what to do.

Now, do they need him? No, it's probably like a little bit of a luxury ad at the same time. You're trying to win a Super Bowl. Right now, you've been patient. Is this the one time where you say, let's not be patient anymore? let's go, let's shock the NFL, and let's go get Devante Adams. So the Detroit Lions, Nora, what do you think as a possible Devante Adams destination? Okay.

Again, maybe I'm just really bullish on, I love trades. I want teams to make trades. I want teams to be making moves. So I'm just trying to talk you into all these. Again, I'm kicking the lunches out of the room. Like, let's get our laptops in here. Because as you said, you got a kind of salad. at that 11 personnel lineup,

not just because of the names, right? But, you know, there's the old adage about you want to build your receiver room like a basketball team. And the way that Devante Adams could fit in

on the outside there in particular, he's not a Williams. He's not Amon Ra. Like, I can see him really adding a dimension to that offense, which I think could be pretty exciting. And,

you know, they are a contender. And I think it would be completely a prudent use of their $40 million in cab space, first of all, like they can do it. A completely prudent use of resources to go all in a little bit. So I'm a little, yeah,

I'm bumping them up. I like your point about the fit there because he does something that's different than everyone else they have. You know, Amon Ross St. Brown is better at working in the slot. Jameson Williams gives you that explosive element. we saw on Monday night with the 70-yard touchdown. And then Devante Adams is like just line up on the outside and go get a bucket.

He's going to separate. Jared Golf is an accurate quarterback. It would be a very interesting fit if the Detroit Lions surprised and made that move. All right. So we're moving up the Lions. We're moving up the commanders. We're leaving the Steelers where they are. We're going to take a break.

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We rented out the conference room. Everyone, bring your laptops. There's coffee in the back, but be quick. We don't have a lot of time to waste here. We got to be efficient. Who knows what other teams are already making calls. We are in Buffalo, Noropr, with the Buffalo Bills, and we're having this meeting because we're three and one.

We look good. This was supposed to be a reset year, but now we're playing well. And Josh Allen looks like an MVP candidate, and we're Super Bowl contenders. And yeah, we like our group. We like Khalil Shakir. We like Dalton Kincaid. We like Kean Coleman. We like James Cook.

But we, you know, we're having visions of a playoff game where, you know, it's third and seven. Where are we going with the football? who can get us a catch right now. And so we're thinking about Devante Adams. It's a one-year commitment. We like that. We don't have to spend big money and sign a young guy to one of these monster contracts

where we're guaranteed for the next two or three years is just rest of the regular season in the playoffs. AFC's wide open. We bring him in. He's played in cold weather before in Green Bay. He played with a great quarterback before in Aaron Rogers. We're going to pass the football a lot. We know that.

We like to be kind of balanced, but we're going to pass the football a lot. We can make the sell for him. Hey, come to Buffalo. You're going to get a lot of opportunities here. You're going to be the highlight of our offense. And we're going to become harder to defend. And maybe in this year, but we didn't really have those huge expectations, we shocked the NFL and we finally get to the Super Bowl. And Devante Adams is the piece that puts us over the top.

What do you think? How many don't let them off the football? phone teams do you have? I have three don't let them off the phone teams. Huh. We're moving the bills up. Four? I have maybe one team that I feel more strongly in the don't let them off the phone camp about than the Buffalo Bills. Oh. I felt that the experience of watching that Sunday night game was just so palpable of Josh Allen

getting in third and long situations against a good defense and just reverting into the do-it-all himself mode and not knowing where to go with the ball and just not really having a lot of good options. And it's the tight, you know, it makes you start to think, okay, like if this is a team

that maybe we thought they were in a little bit of a rebuilding pivot kind of year, but this is still, this is the bills. This is Josh Allen. Like they have Super Bowl aspirations. Khalil Shakir probably shouldn't be the number one receiver on a team like that, right? And we know Keon Coleman is still getting adjusted to the NFL. They've tried to build through the tight ends. But again, when it is those like obvious passing situations, there's sort of only so much

your tight ends can do for you. They also have two second round picks. next year. Great point. Just like call the Raiders. Don't let them off the phone. Give one of your second round picks up and put Devante Adams on this roster. Like the type of reliable just quarterback's best friend pass catcher that Josh Allen hasn't really worked with all that much.

You know, like obviously Diggs in his prime was the type of player that any quarterback would drew of, but there was always drama, like there was just always something going on. And I guess some of that follows Adams around too. But I just, he just seems like the easy buckets guy. And the idea of putting that on the Buffalo bills seems

immensely valuable to me. So, yeah, I think they should be making as many calls as they can possibly make. I love the point. It's like, maybe on Friday, they got wind of this. And they're like, no, you know, we're three and we're good.

It's one of those sort of fantasy football trades. We don't need to do it. Then Sunday night happens. And before they even, that game was in Baltimore, right? Yeah, on the plane ride back. You know, I don't know. Do they drink like bourbons on the plane? I'm getting into fanfic with all these football teams.

I don't know what's going on. Let's assume they drink a little bourbon on the plane. And Brandon Beetz drink a little bourbon. He's like, I got to, we got to call them. We got to reconsider this, you know, because that offense we put out there look different. And he's imagining, he's seeing it in his mind's eye. like, you know, some of those plays where Alan's getting flushed out of the pocket and he's pump faking, God knows how many times, maybe you start to think, you know, a couple of those,

if you had a guy like Adams in there, maybe a couple of those after the second or third pump fake, he's gotten himself open. Josh Allen knows where to go with the ball. He's got the reliable hands. He comes down with it. And it makes a difference. Maybe it keeps some of your momentum. I just, I would really strongly think about it if I were the Buffalo Bills. All right. We're bumping up the bills. Yeah, you're right. Adams has played with a second reaction type quarterback before.

He knows how to get open when the initial play is not called and just find green grass and go make a play. Did that with Aaron Rogers. It'd be pretty fun. Devante Atman. Talk about the teams where the outlook, even though they could win the Super Bowl now, but that would be pretty exciting if he were on the Buffalo Bills. and maybe this next team will excite the listeners as well because it's the other team that played on Sunday night,

Nora Brinciotti. The two and two Baltimore Ravens, I put them in a similar category to the bills. It's win now mode. You've got the quarterback. Now the offense is working. No one would say otherwise, but you don't want to get stuck.

You know, the Ravens have just had these seasons, these moments where it just feels like that little something is missing. And right now, Isaiah likely is their leading receiver. Zay Flowers is their leading wide receiver. The Ravens have been an aggressive organization. This is the type of opportunity that I could just see them pouncing on. You know, you get Devante Adams to add to flowers, to add to likely. Maybe Mark Andrews gets healthy.

Now Bateman and Agalore, they're more depth pieces. You just give yourself more options, more ways to win, more opportunities to withstand injuries while Lamar Jackson is in his prime. Your defense looked great less. year. You've been trying to get over that hump. And I would be a little worried that like that transition, like that's another one, kind of like the Steelers. I could see they make the trade. And then we're like, Devante Adams only had four targets this week. But it could also work. It could also, he and Lamar Jackson could just be a beautiful fit together where he looks like

he's got one more elite season in him. So are we, is Eric DeCosta calling everybody's everybody and saying, get back in the office. We're moving this up, or are they still in the, all right, just, you know, we're having a serious meeting, but it might not happen type mode. Serious meeting makes sense to me. And, you know, it never hurts when a player who your team might or might not go after has recently had a great game against your squad. So you're right to call out that 110-yard performance.

And is that week two? Yeah, it was week two. Two, yes. So I think this is the right. This is right. Serious meeting. Okay. Ravens are in serious meeting mode.

All right. We get to the abandon everything. Turn off. I don't know. What are NFL GMs watching on Netflix nowadays? I have no idea. Mr. McMahon will be company people here. Turn off the Mr. McMahon, doc.

Get back into the office. Leave the soccer games. Tell your wife you can't help with anything around the house. house like you help with anything around the house anyway. And get back in there because you got to make this happen before another team does it. I've got three teams in here, Nora moved up the Buffalo Bills. Let's start with. Can I say, Shil, that I can tell that your list is crazy?

Just make some of the teams that we haven't talked about yet. I know that this is just like unhinged by you. I cannot believe where you were about to go with this. I thought you were going to say like, Shil, you are enjoying this way to watch. This is like as excited as you've been. This is why I told you, I like the off season more than the end season. This is much more fun than talking about some weird past concept on third down. Give me a break.

All right. I'm just laying on me. All right. I just can't wait to hear this. The Dallas Cowboys are the first team where they've just got, I mean, how do you, you're going to make an all in common in the off season. Then you don't do anything. Then you give us all this nonsense drama with your play.

players and are we signing them. Now you sign them. Yeah, look at your offense. You're 18th in DVOA. Your 20th in passing DVOA. Watch the Cowboys games. Have they had a wide receiver opened all season long? I mean, every pass that Dak Prescott throws,

it's like a contested catch where it's got to have pinpoint accuracy. 27.5% of his passes are into tight windows, according to next gen stats. That's by far the highest percentage of any quarterback in the NFL. They've got C.D. Lam, LAM and they've got nothing else. You add Devante Adams. Now you got CD Lamb and Devante Adams,

two guys who can separate, who can get open, who require defenses to game plan against them. Mike McCarthy and Adams, they know each other from their time in Green Bay, so he knows the offense. It should be a relatively seamless transition. Cowboys are two and two.

They're not a great team, but the NFC's wide open. Maybe this is a one-year rental, but then after the season, you say, hey, hang around for another year. We need you. He likes it there. And he sticks with the Dallas Cowboys.

What do you think? I mean, sure, have the meeting. Don't get them off the phone. The contested catch rate for Dag Prescott, the throwing into tight windows stat, that is going to be true as long as Mike McCarthy is the coach there. That has always been true of the offenses that he runs. It will not matter.

Add Devont-Dade Adams to this offense and see. They will find a way to make it difficult on their quarterback. It's not that I don't like the idea. The true sense of urgency here is missing to me. But perhaps that's just because, like, I just don't believe that they will do it. Because Jerry Jones's favorite thing is to say that he doesn't have any money and that he can't go. Oh, yeah. I mean, geez.

You know, make exciting acquisitions. They signed Devante Adams. Yeah. Poor guy. So I just have a, you know, I do also wonder a little bit, I mean, if it works out really well and you win more games,

players get on board. I have a little bit of a worry about just what it signals to the locker room that, you know, let's say he does perform well and they want to keep him around next season. Okay, you did the two big contracts this offseason, but you've still got Parsons coming.

You are pretty, you know, not to justify Jerry. but you are pretty tight in the cap. I wonder if it becomes a little controversial that they go out and do this. But, you know, making a splash is what we've criticized them for not doing after saying they were going all in. So I'll give you a serious meeting for the Cowboys.

But why this team, that I also just sort of feel in my bones would screw this up somehow, like why they should have more urgency for this than a team like the Bills or the Ravens or even the Lions. who just seem more trustworthy overall to me. I'd like to be having what you're having, Sheel, but it's not the Cowboys for me.

All right. Go back to the soccer games. Go home. Turn on Mr. McMahon. Have a nice night. In Dallas, you're not trading for Devante Adams. You get bumped down. The bills get bumped up.

All right. Two more on the list. This is an obvious one. The New York Jets. I mean, if you're Joe Douglas, If you don't win this year, you're getting fired. What do you care about a second round pick next year? Burn the resources.

You need it. Garrett Wilson is getting all kinds of attention from opposing defenses. Alan Lazard is your leading receiver. From a chemistry perspective, this is so easy. Aaron Rogers has played with him. Nathaniel Hackett. We know you can have Garrett Wilson and Devante Adams. You're already all in for this year.

You've got the experience together. And like I said, who cares? If it doesn't work out, oh, no, the future GM doesn't get a second round pick. Just go make the trade right now. How can you not do this if you're the New York Jets? Look, the one part of that that I get is if you're the GM and you're getting fired, like, what's it to you? Whatever, draft picks are free.

They're not going to be yours to select anyway. So in that sense, sure. In basically every other sense, I think this is patently insane. Aaron Rogers. Aaron Rogers could have Devante Adams once he tries throwing the ball more than like seven yards down the field. I mean, I don't know what it is about this offense so far this year that has said to anyone that they would be able to take advantage of someone like Devante Adams. I know they played together. I know they really like each other.

But you know what? Aaron Rogers also really likes Nathaniel Hackett. Yeah. Everything does seem so hard for them. They are averaging 4.8 yards per play right now. and Garrett Wilson, who's supposed to be, you know, your deep threat, he's supposed to stretch the field for you. His yards per catch average is 9.6.

Like, to have that guy under 10 yards is just indicative of how, like, dink and dunk sad this offense has turned out to be. And I'm just not sure that you're going to, you know, regardless of the two players' history together, I'm not sure that you're going to be able to maximize someone like Adams in that, offense. It's basically just like he and Aaron did so well together in the past and that counts for something. But I just don't know what they've done to indicate that they could actually maximize his skill set the way they are right now. Yeah, that was ugly on Sunday against the Broncos. It is a little boring. Everything seems so hard. Talk about not scheming

anything up. Nothing is schemed up. It's either Rogers makes an incredible throw down the sideline or he tries to escape or something bad happens. That has been their offense. But maybe that's why Devante Adams could help. All right. My last one. I think you're going to like this one. I am serious about this. This fan, if they don't, if they are not serious contenders and try to do this, their fan base should be irate. And I am not joking about that. I think this is true. The team is the Kansas City Chiefs. 100%. This is the team.

This should have been done yesterday for them. Rishi Rice goes down. We don't know the extent of that injury, but it could be season ending. They need someone. They are 13th in passing DVOA. That is unacceptable when Patrick Mahomes is your quarterback. They are going for a three-peat. They are in win-now mode.

Who cares about a second-round pick? If you need to give more than that, give more than that. I will not say it is a misallocation of resources. You have Mahomes. You have Andy Reid. You should be able to integrate a player like Devante Adams into your scheme. Everything else is going to get so much easier with Devante Adams. If it works out, I mean, if you're Adams, this makes all kinds of sense because you're going

to put up numbers. There are going to be a lot of opportunities. You go play with Mahomes. Even if it's a one-year rental, now whatever contract you get next off-season from a team, your numbers are going to look better. And this might be a great way to finish your career. You've had a Hall of Fame career. Go play with Mahomes and be his leading pass catcher on a team that if they get him,

very well could win the Super Bowl. Now, before someone you listening are saying, the Raiders would never trade him to the cheese. I think that is so overblown the stuff about don't trade within your division. Like, if you're the Raiders, you've already lost. You're not even playing the same sport as the Chiefs. Like, what do you care that they're in your division? you take the compensation, you take the best deal you can possibly get. So yes, make the chiefs make the best deal. But if they do, go ahead and take it. You've been, you've had an, you'd be an unsurious organization if you took less compensation because you're like, oh, we didn't want to help the cheese.

The cheese are going to win Super Bowls, you know, anyway, in the years ahead before you even like snip the playoffs. So don't worry about that. The Kansas City Chiefs, again, they should be on the phone making an aggressive move to acquire Devante Adams. If they don't, and if their offense continues to look like this and they don't win the Super Bowl, I will be ripping them for not doing it from now until whenever their season's over. Offer the first rounder. It's going to be in the 30s. Ask the Raiders to take some money off the contract for this year because that's actually valuable to Kansas City, right?

Whether it's this year, whether it ends up rolling over and helping them next year, and they get to add some, you know, veteran player on an $8 million one-year contract who can add depth to a position where they need it, whatever. That's the type of move that a Super Bowl team makes and actually is able to make help them. Be aggressive. You know, the biggest problem for Kansas City is that if it is supposed to be a second rounder, if theirs is like 60 plus, I think you're going to have to figure out something to do there because that's, not going to be super compelling to Las Vegas. And you know, I think you probably need a little sweetener because of the division thing.

But I'm so with you. And I say this to say that they should be aggressive because I don't know what the heck you're doing. Like we're all sitting here week in and week out calling Patrick Mahomes's offense boring. And it's true. Yeah. I'm not saying we shouldn't be saying it. It's true. It's, you know, it's right before our eyes.

But that's just, that is against the laws of man and nature. stop making me watch this. Go do this. There you go. All right. So we, listen, we had some bumps in the road. We got to the same spot. I think the Kansas City Chiefs are a good meeting of would be fun, should do it, compensation, all the different factors that go into this. I'm with you. Do a conditional thing. You know, maybe it's a second. Hey, if he has X amount of yards, it turns into a one or a second. And if he has X amount of yards, we throw in a fourth that turns into a third. something like that, get this done. Do not just think you can figure it out the rest of the way with the group you have.

All right. That was fun. Can we get someone to do a trade request every Tuesday for the rest of the season? Please. I mean, I can't get enough of it. At least till the deadline. I know there is like there's a real light behind your eyes, Shil. It's awesome to see you.

I feel so energized. I haven't been outside in like three days. I mean, it's just like this just, this just put a little pep at my step. Now I'm going to sleep well. And then tomorrow, start of a new week. All right, here we go. Thank you, Nora Princiotti, for joining me. That was a lot of fun.

We'll take a break. We'll come back. We'll talk to Stephen Ruiz. All right, welcome back to the Ringer NFL show. Shield Capade here, now joined by Stephen Ruiz. We're doing quarterbacks every week. Ruiz, remind the people. You came out with a nice format last week, which I, of course, already forgot.

But I did remember that I liked it. But remind the people of what we're going to be doing for this segment. All right. We're going to be talking about four quarterbacks. The first quarterback we're going to talk about. was better on film than the live viewing would have suggested or the box score would have suggested. Second quarterback was a little worse on film than the numbers implied. And then we're going to give out the performance of the week.

And then we're going to give out our badge of honor, the most honorable quarterback performance. This quarterback doesn't have to win to get this honor, but the quarterback who gets it this week did happen to win. Okay, there you go. I love it. And it's funny because Ruiz sends me the quarterbacks, but he doesn't tell me who's in what category. So I just have to make my guess this. It's like, how well do I know my fellow podcaster here? All right.

So are we starting with the one where the film was better than the box score? Is that what we're starting with this week? We are. We are. We're going to start with Patrick Mahomes. Okay. The guy in Kansas City. Yeah, I like most of the people, I saw that interception he threw early on in the game.

And I was like, well, I mean, I think that was his fifth interception of the season. He's had a couple of ugly interceptions, just the ones where he watched the tape. And you're like, I don't even know what he was going for there. That was just a bad decision. So when I turned on the All-22, week. I expected to see a bad performance out of him. But I mean, it was one of the better performances I've seen over the past couple years. A lot of, I would say pressure management, a lot of completions under pressure. And I think like what the Chief's offense has devolved into is,

hey, we're just going to have to get six yards on these first two downs. And then third and four, third and five, we have the best quarterback in the world and he'll bail us out. And most of the time in this game, he found a way to bail him out. It was when they got set back on first and second down where he couldn't possibly dig him out of that hole. That's not on him. I don't think any quarterback would be able to do that. But, no, I was very impressed by what I saw at him, Mahomes.

And I think it's just continued maturation outside of, within structure, but also outside of structure. He's not making these mistakes in the structure of the offense. I think you're seeing these mistakes because he's pressing to make plays downfield. Because this offense just doesn't have the juice to do it anymore. They are clearly missing something from where they were, I would say, three years ago, I would say 2020, 2021 is around where the offense started to fall off a little bit. And it kind of cratered last year.

And then this year, if they don't trade for a wide receiver and fill in those gaps, I don't know if it's going to be a Super Bowl worthy offense by the time January rolls around. Yeah, it feels, I mean, it does feel a lot like it felt last year. And they found a way. They won the Super Bowl. We know that. But it didn't look how it's normally looked with Patrick Mahomes. And maybe this year will be a little bit different.

But yeah, we just talked about this, Ruiz. And so I did a little exercise with Nora in the first part of the show going over Devante Adams' potential landing spots. And I kind of did him in tears. And I came to the conclusion and I actually don't know what you think. So I want to hear what you think. I said that Chiefs fans should be irate if they're just not on the first team on the phone, making the most aggressive offer for Devante Adams.

Am I going overboard or do you agree with that sentence? No, I think you're on the right track here. So what I did was I went through the routes Mahomes was throwing by year. And I was trying to figure out, like, where he used to throw a bunch of routes, that he doesn't throw those routes anymore. And it was on the vertical routes, not surprisingly, but it's not go balls. Like, he's throwing go balls at the same rate he was throwing them in, like, 2019, 2020. What it is, it's the post routes.

It's the deep crossing routes. It's the corner routes. It's kind of those like in breakers and outbreakers, but still vertical routes. And if you look up the receivers that have done the most damage on those routes, the number one guy, unsurprisingly, is Tyree Kill. The number two guy, which could be surprising because of who he's played with the last couple years, is Devante Adams. He's caught 81 of those passes over the last two seasons, not including this year,

2022, 2023. So since he left Green Bay, he's been one of the more productive players on those deeper routes. So I feel like he would perfectly fill that void that's been in the Chief's offense for the last couple of years. Now, the question is, will the Raiders actually trade him to a divisional rival? See, I said that, I said that that should be, now I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I'm like, they would be so stupid to even be worrying about that. The Chiefs aren't even playing the same sport as them. I mean, the Chiefs are winning suit. Like, you're not doing anything to the Chiefs. They just won two Super Bowls. They're going to win more. What point are you possibly making?

Now, make them give you the best deal, take the best deal. If it's not the Chiefs, obviously, you don't trade them to the Chiefs, but if the Chiefs give you the best deal, like, what do you care? You're trying to build your own team. So if that comes out, I'm going to need like an emergency of Ringar, NFL show to be like,

this is an unsurious franchise. This is absolutely nonsense. Teams that operate like this are ridiculous. No, it would be bad for the League too. Let's think about the League and the entertainment of why. I want to watch the Chiefs have an entertaining offense. What should happen is the League should make teams submit trade packages anonymously.

And the Raiders just have to, and the Raiders have to pick it blind. You know Antonio Pierce is not going to trade them to the cheese. But how much say, I don't know. The thing with the Raiders is we don't know who's making this trade. Tom Telesco, Antonio Pierce, ownership. It's just like, I mean, they're a mess. They're on Instagram. Who knows what's going on?

They've got to make business. Make a business decision. Antonio. It's not personally. Make a business decision. Take the best offer. It's not. But I do have some backup options.

If Devante Adams is not realistic. These are, this is a high hope. And that's D.K. Metcalfe. He can obviously help you out on those things. He's run a lot of post route. He's caught a lot of passes on those vertical routes that I was talking about. Why would the Seahawks do that? Why would the Seahawks even consider that? I don't think they would. You would have to see them kind of fall off over the next couple of weeks. But I think there's, I mean, D.K. Metcalf's name has been included in trade talks for as long as I can remember. And I'm sure if the price is right, they'll think about it. This is a team that still, it's in the first year of Mike McDonald's tenure. I still think there's a chance that they end up re- building, like a soft rebuild. It's not going to be like something where they blow up the roster. But I could see Mike McDonald wanting his guys in there and not the guys from the last regime. But some more realistic options than even that, because I think, like you said, D.K. MacKap probably not getting traded.

Adam Thielen. How about Adam Thieland? From 2022 to 2023, he caught 38 of these routes that I'm talking about, these deep vertical routes last year with Bryce Young as his quarterback. In 2022, he caught 33 of them. That's when we were thinking he was washed. And that Vikings offense, that wasn't a great Vikings passing game back then. If he could still get that done, I think he's the type of receiver who can strike up a rapport with Patrick Mahomes, almost not on the level of what he has with Travis Kelsey.

But I think they think about the game in similar ways. And I think they could strike up a good connection right away. And then my last one would be call up the Jaguars. Ask about Gabe Davis, who is a very flawed receiver, but one thing he can do is produce explosive plays. as the Chiefs found out in that classic shootout with Mahomes and Allen in the playoffs. And then the other guy is Christian Kirk. Christian Kirk is perfectly designed to frustrate a guy like me who watches Trevor Lawrence throw these beautiful downfield balls and he doesn't quite compete for those passes.

And I think he would bring the same thing to Kansas City. All the film guys would be mad at him for not hauling in 50-50 balls from Mahomes. But I do think he provides that deep to intermediate area production that the Chiefs have lacked. The other thing, like, I noticed when looking up these routes was Travis Kelsey was good for about a dozen of these catches per year up until 2022. He hasn't caught one since 2023. So if you're looking for an area where he's kind of falling off, it's in that mid-range to deep area, especially the middle of the field. Yeah, right now, just Patrick Mahomes, to your point, just 3.4% of his throws are going downfield. That's per next gen sense.

It's three point four. Oh, no, that's sorry. That was this week on the season is 4.1 percent, the lowest number of downfield throws in the NFL. His average throw is going 5.1 yards, which is last in the entire NFL. You remember what you said about Andy Reid, about how he used to, I forget when you said this. It might have been on the Friday pod, but he said he used to send Deshaun Jackson down the field and just throw it to him no matter what. The first play of this game, they sent Xavier Worthy on a go-round. And you could see Mahomes. It was kind of like on the backside. I don't know if it was the primary read.

You could see Mahomes think about it and cock the ball. And then right before he throws a checkdown. And I was like, oh, come on, man. Ruined him. Come on, just let it rip. Randy's trying to help you on that one. He listens to the show. All right, I like it.

Patrick Mahomes is our first one. All right. Next one, the one most likely to get the fan. We should title this, yeah, most likely to get fan base mad every week. This is the one where Ruiz is saying, pump the brakes. Okay.

The film is not as good as, the praise that this quarterback is getting this week or that the box score looked or that watching live, it appeared. Who do you got for this one? I'm going with Sam Darnel, who continues to lead the NFL and touchdown passes. He moved the Vikings to 4 and O with another good performance. You know, here's the problem with the Sam Darnold evaluation this year. They haven't lost, right?

And when you're watching highlights of a game where a team won, they never show the negative plays. You don't see the bad interceptions. You don't see the throws into coverage. You don't see the sack fumbles. You don't see it. He's gotten a good edit. That's what you would say. Like on a reality TV show, a contestant might get a good edit and one might get a bad edit. He's getting a very good edit, a very favorable edit right now. And I think once they start to lose games, they're not going 17 to now. I'm not hating on the Vikings right now by suggesting they're going to lose games eventually. But once they start to lose games, I think his flaws will come more into focus. But it's not just me right now. It's not just me.

right now. According to Sports Info, Solutions Points, Earned Metric, which is, it's similar to the PFF grading system, but it's based on like an EPA scale. He ranks 18th, which is solid, which is, you know, what you would expect of a, I would say a mediocre quarterback in an ideal situation, which we could say about Darnold in Minnesota. And then PFF, their grading, has him more in line with Dishon Watson. And we've talked plenty about Dishon Watson on this feed, how poorly he's played. So it's not just me. There's something in the numbers that, doesn't feel sustainable. And then you turn on the tape of this Packers game.

I mean, he made a couple of great throws. Like the throw to Justin Jefferson down the sideline, perfect throw. It required a very good catch. And I wonder if Justin Jefferson isn't able to haul in that ricochade pass, the double ricocheted pass, is it a highlight? Do we consider it a highlight? I don't know. But I'm giving him credit for that.

But the other throws, like, I guess people are going to get tired of hearing me say this, but Kevin O'Connell is doing the heavy lifting here. like the way he designs plays you could see every intention like the way he sets up the protection the way he uses motion where he deploys the receivers where he deploys uh justin jefferson in particular to kind of give sam darnot tells it's it's fun to watch and i think it's reduced the thinking that sam darnell has to do especially on early downs but when a team forces him to think sam darnald still shows that he is liable to make a just a head scratching mistake and he made a couple of them in this game

and nearly let the Packers back into the game. I like that I don't have to be the person. You know, going into the season, I was like, just stop with all this Sam Darrell hype. It's not happening. I'll say this. I did not think even what we've seen so far in four games. I did not think that was happening with this Vikings team.

So he has exceeded my expectations. If you're a Vikings fan, he's exceeded your expectation. So I think there's like a, you know, there are different sort of groups here. Ruiz is not saying he's playing like one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL. He's just saying that the scheme is doing a lot of work. And if you just isolate his performance, like, he's not performing like a top, well, top five, top 10. He's probably

in like that middle range of guys who can, you know, maybe they look good. If things are working around them, if things aren't working around them, they might crumble. I think that's fair. I don't think, I still think that means he's massively exceeded expectations. Yet, you don't have to go overboard just by the counting stats here with how he's playing. Now, I will say this in his defense. So if you want, you know, like the statistical case for Sam Darnold. You know, if you look at the turnover worthy plays from pro football focus, he's a little worse than average,

but he's not like near the bottom of the group. If you look at success rate, he's fifth. If you look at EPA per pass play, he's 10th. Now, I agree with you. You watch it, like on the season, he's got the seventh lowest percentage of tight window throws. That matches sort of what I'm watching when I watch the Vikings. Not to say he's not making any top throws,

but not a high percentage of them. And he's taking 3.07 seconds to throw the ball. So like their protection, I had questions about the interior of their offensive line, whether stuff they're doing schematically or whatever. He has time to make some of those plays back there that maybe other quarterbacks do not. So I don't think you're being unfair. If you're a Vikings fan and you're upset about it, that's fine. That's normal about fandom.

But I think there will be some of these this year where Ruiz will say them, and I feel like I keep teasing them, and we haven't gotten to one yet. where I'll be like, oh, give me a break. You know, he's playing awesome. But I don't just, anyone who's listened to this feed since the offseason knows that I'm probably going to be on board with what Ruiz is saying about Sam Darnell. And I'm complimenting the other players on the team and the coaching stuff. Like, I'm complimenting the team overall.

I'm just saying, let's put this quarterback's performance into context. The good news is I don't think they have a tough defensive schedule. So I don't think he's going to get exposed by any means. I think he's going to be able to keep this up. And this is going to be a top 10 offense all year. I think the Vikings are going to be a very good team this year. I'm more worried about in the playoffs, that's typically when you see these issues come to light. I mean, I think it's going to happen before that.

I'm not trying to be a hater. But I don't know. I haven't seen him go 17 games playing like this before. So until I see it, I'm just going to say regression's coming, regression's coming. Maybe it won't. You know, weird stuff happens in the NFL. That's why we watch. They surprise us this weekend, not that the Jets are a juggernaut, but they go to London.

They take on the Jets. Those are good corners. We'll see how he looks in that football game. All right. Next one is best performance, right? Best performance of the week. Who do you got? I mean, I wanted to give this to Jared Gough.

I did give it to Jared Gough, the helmet sticker in my quarterback rankings, but it was just like a high-level Jared golf game. I didn't think we like, it was very interesting. Like, you know, so I wanted to talk about Lamar Jackson, who I thought was very good on Sunday night in the Bills win. But I wanted to talk about this evolution we've seen out of him. like on the whole. And I'm working on a story about the art of the checkdown,

like when's the best time to throw a checkdown, what down, how much time into a snap. And one thing I got my hands on data going back to 2018. And the best quarterback on checkdowns is Lamar Jackson since then, which isn't something you think of with Lamar Jackson. You think of like the playmaking, the explosive plays. But not only is he number one since 2019, 2018, it's by a wide margin.

And he's the only quarterback that's consistent. consistently good at it every year by EPA. He's like one of the leaders in checkdown EPA. And the one thing that I think he's mastered is when to throw him. It's very clear which checkdowns are good and what checkdowns are bad. First down checkdowns are good. Positive EPA, positive success rate. That's the best time to throw it. Third down checkdowns, bad. I'd like players like, like Joe Burrow last year was throwing a lot of third down checkdowns. And I think that was the result of him being injured and being hobbled. Ben Rothesberger at the end of his career was a third down checkdown lover. If you look at the list, it's most of the quarterbacks you would call

a checkdown machine. But Lamar Jackson is good at it because he doesn't throw him on third down. He throws him on first and second down. And the timing in which he does it, I think, impacts the play. But look at his other areas where he's, you know, managing risk. His sack rate this year, 3.6. The NFL average is 7.4. His interception slash fumble rate is 2%. The NFL average is 3.5. He's only been charged with two pressures according to PFF. They chart when a quarterback is responsible for creating their own pressure. Only two. That's tied for the best in the league with like around five quarterbacks. There are guys that are up in the double digits. Like I think Brock Purdy's at 13. Justin Fields is up there. he's usually up there.

A couple of guys, guys that are known as runaround guys, guys that like to get out of structure and create. So Lamar Jackson has this like elite combination of risk management and playmaking out of structure that like Patrick Mahomes is that type of quarterback. We've seen Josh Allen develop into that type of quarterback, especially this year. And then there's Lamar Jackson who never really gets credit for it. And I think it's time that we give him credit for avoiding these negative plays and creating so many explosive plays at the same time.

very hard to do. Yeah, he's sixth lowest turnover worthy play percentage, like you mentioned, the pressure stuff, sixth in pressure to sacrate. I was surprised. I didn't realize this until today. The Ravens are first in offensive DVOA, first in passing and first in rushing. I mean, with the offensive line turnover, they've had with getting nothing from Mark Andrews really this year, you know, their leading receivers are what, Zay Flowers and Isaiah likely.

it's kind of another reminder that it's a small group of quarterbacks where it's just like if they're healthy and out there, the offense is going to be good. And yeah, what they did on Sunday night, I feel like every time we talk about, it's either like, wow, Lamar Jackson was Superman and that's fun.

But then I do like seeing those nights like Sunday where it felt more like, all right, this feels actually more sustainable than when he just has to put the cape on. And he still manages to look like Superman at times in those games. Yes, in some ways he does it. He did it as a thrower, in my opinion, on Sunday night. Like, some of those touch throws he made, like, over the second level of the defense and then

before the third level of the defense. And then there was that, like, that third down sideline throw to Zay Flowers where flowers actually dropped the ball. But it was like, how the hell did Lamar, like, dropping right into that. That might have been his best throw at night. Yeah. Yeah. He's just developed into an amazing thrower of the football.

And that's something, that's another thing that he's never really gotten credit for. He's been questioned about his ability to throw football. But I'm not sure there are more. talented arms out there right now in the NFL. Like he does the Matthew Stafford's sidearm arm angle thing. He could throw with touch. I do think, you know, his deep accuracy isn't the best, especially when he's throwing like vertical lead throws.

But that's more of a timing thing. I don't think it's like an arm capability thing. I think once he figures out how to do that, he'll be better at it. But yeah, he's just the ideal modern quarterback. You can take away his rushing threat and I still think he'd be a top 10 quarterback, which is crazy to say, considering. how big that threat is. Yeah, he's got answers to a lot of problems,

and we saw that on Sunday night. All right, most honorable quarterback. This is, could be a win, could be a loss, just played the game the right way, as Larry Brown used to say. That's right, no play action, no RPO, no screen passes, no yak. This is just pure quarterbacking. Okay. What do we go?

I'm going with CJ Stroud against the Jacksonville Jaguars. And I think we would have celebrated this performance more, if not for the addiction of this Texans' offensive line to pre-snap penalties. Laramby Tonsu has 11 pre-snap penalties this season. 11? Four games. I mean, I don't know the record for pre-snap penalties, but yeah, he has 11 of them. Every single offensive lineman had a penalty in the game against Jacksonville, all five of them.

And then it's like third and 15, and then C.J. Straub's running for his life and throws a dime on the run and like converts the first down. Like, that's how it's been all season, too. But I wanted to talk about him because I'm ready. I've seen enough. He's an elite quarterback. What's your reaction to that take? Like I, it's, it's Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and then for me, it's still Justin Herbert, even though it doesn't look like in this hell hell hell that he's playing, this hellhole of an offense he's playing it. But then it's CJ Stroud.

Those are the five best quarterbacks in the league to me. And I would listen to any argument for putting Stroud over Herbert at this point. I just think, I think Stroud's in an offense that allows him that provides a plan. to see the best of him. Whereas Herbert doesn't have that. With Herbert, all you're looking at right now is risk management and risk, like, negative play aversion. But with Stroud, like, I think the thing you're seeing this season, last year, he did,

like the system quarterback thing. He looked like a polished quarterback. We were surprised how polished he was for a rookie. This year, you're starting to see the artists come out in him. I think you're starting to see more that Matthew Stafford, like, creating throws, no-look passes. he had a no look pass in this game where you wouldn't have been able to tell it was a no look pass with how strong he threw the ball. Usually when a quarterback throws a no look pass, they'll kind of float it just to give themselves a margin for error. No, he just drilled this one and it hit the receiver right in the hands. And I think he's making more throws on the run. He had one fade away throw that ended up being incomplete. But he was about 15 yards beyond the line of scrimmage and fading away with like three pass rushers in his face. And he somehow gets a ball out to the perimeter and puts it on Stefan Digg's hand. and digs can't make the catch.

It would have been a tough catch. But to be able to save that play and give the receiver an opportunity, it was just amazing to watch. And when you watch him every week, it's just down to down. He never makes the wrong decision. He rarely misses throws. He creates out of structure. He can extend plays.

He can get the ball out on time. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about watching the play. He's one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL right now. No, yeah, I don't have any pushback on that. I thought coming into the season, he was going to get there. I think I had him top five coming into the season. I think I had him top five on my trade value rankings. I did.

The artistry thing is an interesting point you made because there have been points this year where I go like, can't we like the receivers are good, but I was like schematically, I feel like they could be doing a little bit more where he did. I felt like he was going to that, like there was that bear's game. But man, that was a Sunday nighter. And I was like, man, they're kind of asking him to just, he's creating a lot, which I like that he can create, but I feel like he shouldn't have to do it this much. So it's nice to see that he has that in his game because you're right.

Last year, you know, you had the game against Georgia and then he gets drafted and then he's playing last year. But last year, it just felt like, man, this guy can just operate in the pocket. He's old school. He's just like going to carve you on. And now you see a little bit more. But yeah, I love Stroud. I can't wait to watch him in big games.

And he also seems like the most likable quarterback, the most normal, the most authentic in the NFL so far. It'll probably get beaten out of him and it'll be ruined because that's what the NFL does to people. But any clip I see offseason interviews, that interaction he had with Jalen Johnson a couple of weeks ago, I'm just like, man, this seems like the most, you know, the most, the guy you would want to hang out with the most among NFL quarter. And you can tell he just loves the game. Like, he just loves ball. And he, like, he was raving about Matthew Stafford before the season. I think, like, Matthew Stafford is like the quarterback's quarterback.

And if you appreciate him, like, it's kind of a ball-nower test. But the one thing I'm worried about. is that we're going to see the stats continue to be what they were. He's 12th and QBR 14th in EPA and 21st in yards per dropback. Like the stats don't match the production because of the issues with the Texans' offense, the penalty issues with the offensive line. And then the running game still stinks. Bobby Slovak has not figured out the running game at all.

And they're still wasting too many early down. Outside zone. Every first down for two yards. Yeah. Yeah. It just sets them back. It makes it easier for a guy like me to appreciate his film because we're seeing him put into these drastic situations that he fights his way out of.

I go, oh, wow. Like if he was in the system that he was, I think they did a better job of protecting them from those situations last year just because the penalties weren't happening. And I don't think you got to appreciate the full breadth of his talent, of his physical talent and creativity. But we're seeing it more. I just hope that we don't have a discussion be like, oh, second year slump for C.J. Stroud because people aren't watching and just looking at the box.

No, no, no, no. Yeah, we're shutting that down right. We already know who we're blaming if the Texans. Yeah, that's right. underperform. I'll give a little honorable mention to because I know you didn't want to do them twice in a row, but I caught up on that Bears Rams game yesterday. The Rams were going up and down the field in that game with nobody. And now it might not fit the honorable thing because they were doing play action. They were pulling out any junk they could find to pick up yards. But I just love

McVeigh and Stafford. I mean, they were fifth in success rate among every NFL team on the road in Chicago, down offensive linemen, down Pooka Nekua, down Cooper Cup. Now, they're They couldn't convert in the red zone. They had a fumble and then they had the interception at the end. But if you watch that game, like, I'm watching it going, how do they lose this game? They're doing whatever they want. And so I just wanted to give them a shout out because all these teams now, and you'll hear coaches make excuses, this guy's down.

Oh, well, it's hard. Our right tackle. It's like, look what they're doing right now with so many guys down. It speaks to if you have the coach and the quarterback who can work together and figure it out, it almost, I don't want to say you could put any other 10 guys out there, but like you can really make up for a lot. And they're doing that right now, even though the record's not showing it. No, that was a fun game to watch because of both quarterbacks, but especially Matthew

Stafford. And I think you saw the problems in the red zone. They weren't Matthew Stafford problems. That's when the space gets condensed. And you need some guys that can win and they don't have any guys that can win and they can't run the football. There's nothing you can do. But I think a testament to that offense is they are moving the ball between the 20s.

Yeah, no, no doubt about it. We'll see where their season goes. It might fall apart one week. But, man, they are honorable so far through. four weeks. All right, that was fun. Those are the categories with Stephen Ruiz. You can, of course, read his QB rankings every week on the ringer.com. Now that this is in my head, we've done a couple weeks. Now when I watch on Sundays, I'm going to be like, I'm going to start making some predictions. Maybe I'll come in blind and I'll be like, all right, here's who I think you have for this.

I like you. Yeah, we'll evolve this segment as the season goes on. All right. Thank you to Ruiz. Thank you to Nora Preciati. And thank you to Troy Farkas for producing this episode. We will be back later in the week with the preview episode. The cycle goes on looking ahead to the big games in week five. Until then, I'm Sheila Kapadia. Thanks for listening to the Ringer NFL show. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Helf.com. Call 1-88-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland.

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