The Ringer NFL Show - Ep. 59: A Beautiful Mess of a Playoff Picture

Episode Date: December 19, 2016

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Kevin Clark discuss the Giants defense (1:25), the massive playoff implications from Sunday's games (9:55), their "spotlight guys" (29:49), and which NFL players would be best at dodgeball (39:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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To the Ringaround NFL show. My name is Robert Mays. I'm a writer at the ringer. Join me in the other line. It's Kevin Clark. Kevin, how are you? I'm better than Brock Osweiler. Yeah, man. I mean, it was about time, but it happened at the right time.

If Bill Bryant doesn't make that decision and the Titans end up winning that game, the Texans are a game black. Now they're in the driver's seat. They're still right there. And I think that you just have to ride with Savage now from now on. Yeah, we'll get into that as part of just a larger AFC playoff conversation, but I tend to agree. I wrote that this morning.

I'm just not sure how you can go back to Brock. And Bill O'Brien said the right thing yesterday. He said, we're not going to make decisions based on how much money somebody makes. And when Savage played the way he did after Oswald or threw another terrible two interceptions, it's an easy decision in my mind. Yeah, we'll get to that.

All right, buddy, what was your biggest takeaway of the day yesterday? Well, the biggest surprise for me was the New York Giants because I saw them losing yesterday. And they'd be nine and five. We'd start talking about whether or not they're actually for real after that Cowboys win last week. Instead, we got confirmation of what we maybe already thought about their defense, but I mean, I did not know they were that good. So obviously they shut down the Cowboys last week.

They win 10 to 7. I didn't know that was a repeatable performance. And they go against Matthew Stafford and Detroit Lions. They hold them to six points, 300 total yards of offense, 186 yards passing, crucially, against one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. Stafford is not, and the last two weeks has sort of struggled, but, you know, he's still Stafford. The idea that they could be an elite defense is not something I was what was considering even five or six weeks ago. All of a sudden, they're third in points against. They have not allowed 30 points all season.

Yeah, they haven't allowed more than 24 once. They've only allowed more than 24 once. To the Redskins. To the Redskins. To the Redskins. Outside of that, they've allowed 24 or two other times, and that's it. Yeah. That's incredible.

Yep. And four of their six best defensive performances, have come in the last five weeks. Everyone says, hey, who's getting hot? Who's getting hot at the right time? We see what the Seahawks every year. They start to warm up after Thanksgiving, and they win four in a row,

and then they get hot, and they win a playoff game, and then they get to the conference championship game, and then anything can happen, right? The Giants are that team this year, and I just did not see that coming because I didn't think that Eli Manning was capable of doing this again, but here we are. I totally agree.

I wrote about it this morning, and got my 11-cut items I do in my wrap-up. Biden. I said that their free agent class that they signed this season reminds me of what the Broncos did two years ago. Yes. So you have this group with the Denver had of DeMarcus Ware, Akit Thelib and T.J. Ward. And we just think of Denver as this defensive monolith. But in 2013, they were pretty middle of the road. I think they finished 15th in defensive DVO way. I know some people around that team and they just said that when all those guys got signed, they just sensed Jack Del Rio's mood perk up. Like he just became a different person.

and they went from a middle of the road defense to a top five defense. And what the Giants have done is even more impressive. They were a punchline last year. They were 30th in defensive DVOA, 30th in point out. Now they're third in points allowed and fourth in DVOA coming into yesterday. So when Denver went from middle of the road group to a top five defense, the Giants went from a joke to terrifying, which is, I don't even know how you describe that.

it's one of the best free agent halls in recent memory. Yep. No, I mean, there are so few teams, we joke about it, there are so few teams who win free agency and then actually win in the NFL. Okay, you win in March, you win in April, and then you don't win in September, October, November. This is the rare case of that. And I think that, you know, I think a lot of people sense desperation.

You know, Jerry Reese was on a second coach. Totally. You know what happens on a second coach is you normally don't get to hire. obviously he didn't hire Kaufflin, but you know, you wouldn't maybe get to hire another guy if Macken who doesn't work out. So they're throwing money at guys like Olivier Vernon, Janoris Jenkins. People were wondering, why didn't the Rams choose Janores Jenkins, why they choose Tremaine Johnson. And so I, there was a lot of skepticism around the NFL about this. A lot of people on the NFL said they're just throwing money at their problems.

It's not going to work. Landon Collins makes the leap. JPP is, this season has been really good. seven sacks, three forced fumbles. Romeo Aquara has been a revelation when JPP can't play. Jonathan Hankins has been good. Snacks Harrison has been good against the run. I mean, these pieces I did not expect to be so good this year.

Well, look at the guys that they signed. It was the type of players that occasionally are dangerous and free agency. You know, Snacks Harrison is a big run stuffer who was probably the third best player on his defensive line. Olivia Vernon was a half-season wonder. And then you have Genoise Jenkins, who may have been the second best corner on his own team last season after Tremaine Johnson. So you have these three archetypes that normally burn teams when they pay big for them.

And every single one of them has come up huge. There's been no fall off whatsoever. And I just never thought they could hit the trifecta like that and get some other breaks. You know, Rogers Comardi playing well. Leon and Collins taking a leap, as you said. Go ahead. Real quick on Genorice Jenkins. I just want to walk us through the most NFL injury update of all time last night.

I love Mike Florio, but he said he was on football night in America and he said, Janoris Jenkins, the back is fine. There was concern over the back. The back is fine. The issue is potential damage to his internal organs. He'll be fine to play on Thursday. Did you see Janice Jenkins on the bench after that happened? He was just like leaning back in a very prone position.

I was like, is he okay? No. And the answer is, I don't think so, but still make. He's NFL okay, which means he'll be able to play in the weird Thursday game they're going to play. And so, you know, his internal organs only get four days of rest. Snacks Harrison. I was going to write about him for today. And then as I thought more about it, I made that connection with the Detroit team.

He made a couple awesome run stuff yesterday. He had a very pivotal sack in the red zone. Probably could have gotten called for hitting Stafford in the head. But he got there. So, you know, he's going to get the benefit of the doubt sometimes. I've been so impressed with all those guys. There's really nothing more to say about them. Yeah.

No, I mean, I think they are as dangerous as any team in the NFL right now. I totally agree. I can't even figure out what's going on with the Cowboys right now. You know, Tony Dungey said after the game, I'm just going to quote everyone from NBC, by the way, in this podcast. Worst for me. Welcome back to the Ringar NFL NBC podcast. Tony Dungey basically said, and I agree with him, that after the last two weeks, and now the Bucks playing the Cowboys close in Dallas, no one's going to be scared of going to Dallas.

after seeing last night and seeing it. I'd still be scared. I don't know. I watched what Zeke did again yesterday. I'd still be scared. I think it's, Dungy's point, and I agree with this,

is that they played as well as they could play and Tampa Bay had the ball with the chance to win the game. And they could have, you know, even earlier. They missed a couple field goals. Yeah, even earlier, you had the Mike Evans sort of,

you know, beat the double coverage and James just overthrew him about three yards. if they connect on that, it's a totally different game late. The Bucks could have easily won that game. They could have, but the Cowboys had a couple dumb penalties in the red zone that pushed them back,

and out to the outskirts of field goal range. They come up empty from a couple of those drives. I think that that game was easier, it was easier for Dallas to move the ball than it probably looks in the final stash. Yeah, no, that's true. I mean, it's just, for me, we're nitpicking here. The Cowboys are really, really good.

But, you know, the last four games they've played have been within one possession. and that wasn't the case prior to that, you know. No, you're right. You're right. I think three of the four before that were double digit wins. And so I just think I'm just talking about peeking at the right time. And right now it looks like the Giants are getting hotter than the Cowboys.

But it's all relative because the Cowboys are in some a better team. So, I mean, it gets into momentum and weird. And who the hell knows about momentum in sports in general? Well, let's get into just the playoff scenarios in general. who's hot, who's not, what's happening. My takeaway from yesterday is that that was a beautiful fucking mess, and I loved it. I think Brian Burke tweeted the win probability charts for all the early games, and it looked like an EKG of somebody just having a minor episode.

They were incredible, just how up and down everything was. If you look at the last few minutes of those games, Bears Packers, what happened in Kansas City, everything going on with Houston and Jacksonville, which, by the way, I made a joke yesterday that if a Jaguars' Titans game falls in a forest and no one is there to hear it, did it make a sound? But the Jaguars and Texans

or Titans weren't playing yesterday, which I feel like is the only point needed about the joke I was trying to make. The peak Jaguars joke is to just, oh yeah, yeah, that no one's really paying attention to that game and the game doesn't exist and no one really calls you on it. Yeah, but somebody did, but I think people understood that was my point.

You know, that the only further solidified my point. But anyway, Every single one of those games is not only entertaining, but massive playoff implications. I mean, I wrote about this today, just kind of every single beautiful mind weirdness thing that could go on right now. But Tennessee winning, Houston winning, I feel like is a good place to start because that allows both of them to keep pace in the AFC South. And right now, it seems like we are cruising for those teams to play each other in week 17 for the division. Yeah. I mean, I don't, if you were to look at all of these mediocre teams, and would you call the mediocre at this point?

Yeah, I'd still call them mediocre, although I feel like Tennessee has really impressed me lately. Yeah. I know it was negative one in Kansas City yesterday, and there aren't going to be a ton of points in some of those games. But we're still talking about a KC offense that's been able to put up some points as of late. They found some playmakers. Tyree Kill made another huge play yesterday. and Tennessee really limited them. Did you enjoy the Ryan suck up revenge game?

I loved it. How much, how long do we want to spend on Andy icing a kicker when it was negative one degrees outside? Literal ice. But it's not even that. I know that's the joke, but if it's negative nine with the wind chill,

do you really want to give the guy two shots? Yeah. No, I don't understand that. I get it. So here's what I think. I think the Tennessee defense, you know, they had five straight weeks where they decreased the point.

points they allowed, they went up a little bit, but they still obviously played an amazing game on Sunday. Marcus Marriota, no touchdowns, one interception, at 280 yards, something like that. I mean, this team has a lot of roster talent. I mean, and this team is deep. John Robinson has done a great job. Mike Malarkey has done a great job. I mean, at this point, knowing that the Colts are so inconsistent, knowing that the Houston Texans are the Houston Texans, I would have to assume that the Tennessee Titans are going to win this division. I would put my money on the Titans as well. And if that does happen, you know, it's kind of fun, is that Kansas City or Oakland is probably

going to win that second wild car. You know, now Oakland obviously has the inside track with the win yesterday. But if they do win the division, that means they might get Kansas City again in round one. Yeah. I think if you play this game 10 times, the chiefs probably win. you know, nine of them. That's probably true, but they get them at home if they were to play. I mean, I know it's that weird ugly coldness may favor Kansas City, or I'm excuse,

may favor Tennessee weirdly. So playing on the road there could have been a slight advantage. But I wouldn't mind seeing those two teams play again. Let me ask you a question. And this is probably important to just the general philosophy and identity of the Titans. Do you think that the Titans need more from Marriota or do you like this sort of ground and pound rely on defense type thing? because at this point, Marriota, his past rating yesterday was 67.

The week before that was 45. The last time he had a touchdown pass was two weeks ago, three weeks ago against the Bears. So it's been even longer since he's thrown a touchdown against an NFL team. And so at this point, they're going to rely on everybody but Marriota. Do you think Marriott needs to take a leap for them to make a playoff game, or win a playoff game? Excuse me. I don't know if necessarily he needs to make a leap. I feel like the way they've constructed this team, they don't have many pass catchers.

I mean, it's Delaney Walker and Richard Matthews. Yep. That's not the track to a really good passing offense. They built this team to run the ball. You're using the backs a little bit now, too, which I kind of liked. I mean, I feel like it's not necessarily that he has to be better. It's that this offense isn't built for him to be that much better. So I'm not sure what they're going to do against a real defense,

which Kansas City and Denver undoubtedly are against the pass. Yeah. No, I mean, look, I kind of like, you know, DeMarcombe had five receptions of 52 yards. I thought that was pretty good. yesterday. But yeah, I agree with you. This offense, and I talked to Mike Markey about in the preseason, was built for this. They were built for December football and for Marcus Marriota winning a game with no touchdowns and one interception and only taking one sack. This is this is going to be a

max protect type team and it's working. My question is, did you see it coming when they went for two? No. Because that was the first time in 20 years, a team has gone for two that early in a game when trying to win the game. I mean, did you disagree? I kind of loved it. I kind of loved it and they won the game, but it was just, I thought, no one does that,

and I was so excited about the fact they were going for it. Yeah, and those conditions on the road against a team that's better than you, I feel like that's probably the move. Yeah. No, and the agreed, disagree thing is a red hand. You know, it's one of those things, and we still have this old world mentality in football where if he makes it, he's a genius,

and if he doesn't make it, he's an idiot, okay? And if they hadn't made if Ryan Suckup hadn't made a long field goal to win the game, people are saying, Mike Malarkey, that's a bonehead of the week type thing. And so, you know,

I like the boldness, but I do understand that there's still going to be a lot of criticism because there's still a lot of sort of old world media out there. I mean, yeah, I think that's always going to happen. You know, Jim Caldwell punted yesterday with five minutes left while he was down by two scores. He was on his own 12-yard line, but you're not getting the ball back twice.

with five minutes left. That's just not going to happen. So, I mean, I don't, I never am for the conservative choice in those moments, no matter how badly it seems in the moment. Yeah. I mean, the play call was not good. The play execution, everything was not good. Yes. So, I mean, yeah, that we could probably criticize. But, all right, let's get into some of the other just playoff implication games from this weekend. As hard as it is to understand, it looks like Miami is going to do this. Yeah. I mean, they really have to fall off. So, even if they lose to New England in week 16, it still seems like they're probably going to get in at 10 and 6.

Plus they haven't had their weird Patriots win yet. Yes. And they're due. If Oakland somehow loses to 10, loses to Indylat next week, which doesn't seem like it'll happen, but who the hell knows, then you're looking at a Patriots theme

that probably doesn't need to win in week 17. So if I'm the Dolphins, I'm rooting pretty hard for the Colts next week. Yeah, no. And at this point, I don't think Denver's going to rebound. The pads they have to get there are slim. There are a lot of being cut. There's a lot of them being cut off at the pass in different scenarios here.

Yeah. No, I mean, they have the Chiefs and the Raiders in the last two each of the season. Those are two teams who are A, better than them, and B, need to win. And so that's the win out, yes. Yeah, both of those teams, excuse me. But both of those teams, the Chiefs and the Raiders are both better than them, and they both are going to be desperate for a win because they're doing playoff positioning right now. And so the Broncos, I mean, maybe they split those two games, maybe.

And then they're nine and seven. And they're not getting in at nine and seven. I mean, it's possible still, but there's not a lot of scenarios where that can happen. Here's the question about the Broncos. If they go nine and seven, Trevor Simeon is decent. How would you gauge this season? Because I think in August, if you were to slip a Broncos fan, a piece of paper that says nine and seven, Trevor Simeon looks good in the defense as good as ever,

maybe they're going to be good in 2017, they may have taken it. But having seen the way this season unfolded, I think it's a massive disappointment. Yeah, I would tend to agree. I mean, their offense has been very bad. I thought that this might happen. You know, they needed their defense to be just as good as it was last year, and there was almost no way where that was going to be possible. Yeah.

Yeah, and, you know, Paxton Lynch had to start two games and, you know, he's not very good. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter. Their quarterback play was just not very good, period, and their offense just wasn't very good period. It's not as if Trevor Simeon was some dumpster fire of a quarterback. They didn't have an offensive line. They didn't have a running game. Yeah, he was fine.

He was fine. Yes. They need a running game. They did not have the ancillary parts of an offense to carry a mediocre quarterback. That's what ended up happening. Yeah. No, exactly.

They need to go out and find a running back in the first round next year. Is that weird? I mean, I don't know if that's necessarily true. A game changing running back would do them. wonders. Yeah, I guess so. I think finding a right tackle can actually play would be a step in the right direction as well. Hey, did you see that report this morning about Russell Okun and Akeep Taleb? No. Okay, so the Broncos had it out in the locker room last night, as they should have. Oh, good. Yeah, shocking. But the crux of it was that Russell O'Coh, so Gary Kubiak says, does anybody want to

speak, you know, sort of a leader, leadership, you know, seating the floor. And O'Koon starts talking. and Akeeb Taleb was so offended that a member of the offensive line started talking when the offensive line was so bad that he just rejected it. He just said, nope, you're not talking. That's tough. That's tough.

And then they had it out, and Gary Kubiak had to defuse it. I think that was a Michael Silver report from the NFL network. That sounds healthy. Yeah, that's really good. I'm clearly thinking they can win out and steal one of those spots for sure.

Poor Russell O'Coon. As if right now, It seems like the AFC is not set, but I feel that we have a pretty good handle on who's going to make it and who's not. You know, right now, I would say New England, Oakland, Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Miami, and whoever the AFC South winner ends up being. Though that's the most likely scenario. Matt Moore in the playoffs. In the NFC, things aren't nearly that cut and dry. You know, we have Dallas really getting a stranglehold back on the conference yesterday.

Seattle winning gives them a very good shot of going home with the number two seed. But things get a little murkier. What happens after that is anybody's guess. But it looks like right now, Green Bay and Atlanta are both in pretty good position to win their divisions and come home with the three and the six seat. I agree. Excuse me, the three and the four seat. Yeah, yeah. I can't tell if Detroit is about to flop or not.

Because, again, it gets into, are the Giants that good or is Detroit just, you know, getting ready. They could have easily lost last week. They did lose this week. Are they ready for a swoon at this point? It almost doesn't matter if Detroit's ready to flop or not, because if Detroit loses the Dallas at Dallas, which is very possible,

with Minnesota's loss yesterday, the Packers could theoretically lose to the Vikings next week and then still beat the Lions and get into the playoffs in week 17. Right. Well, it all comes down to week 17. Yes. But now it's like the Lions have given themselves absolutely no wiggle room. They have to beat the Packers to go to the playoffs.

And right now, do you think they can beat Green Bay with everything on the line? I don't know. I mean, Green Bay came very close to losing yesterday. Sure. I mean, yeah, they did, but I still would pick the Packers in those games. I would too. I mean, if I were to guess right now, I would say the Packers are going to make the playoffs. Absolutely.

I think so, too. And I think that right now, Tampa is in a really tough spot. They essentially have to win out to get there. They're 8 and 6. They've got two decently tough games from here on now to do it because Atlanta, you has pole position in that division right now. If they tie Tampa goes, which is really the only thing they have. So they need to win their last two and Atlanta needs to lose one.

So we'll see. Atlanta looks pretty damn good right now. I know it was San Francisco, but when you score essentially 35 points and a half and put up like Texas tech levels of yardage, I don't care who's playing on the other side of the ball. Yeah, on the other hand, San Francisco should not be in the NFL anymore. That's fine. But when you're on pace for 700 yards of offense, It's ridiculous.

The Falcons are doing, and they did it without Julio Jones. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree with it. The Falcons are rolling. The Falcons are rolling. Yeah. I mean, I think they're really, really good.

However, one thing I do want to say, I think the Packers, I think we're going, I think the Packers are going to win the division. I think they're going to win out. I think Aaron Rogers is going to get to have a great proclamation and we're going to run the table from a couple weeks ago, and I think they were four and six. But I do think we're starting to. actually overrate the Packers. I think so, too.

I think we've swung so far the other way where it went from the Packers are bad. When they're 4 and 6, they lost the Titans by, what, 22 points? And then last week it swung so far to the Packers are the best team in the NFC. They're actually people saying that and making that point. And now we just need to realize they're a pretty good NFC team along with the Bucks, along with maybe even the Giants or the Redskins. So two things are simultaneously true. The Packers are going to make the playoffs, but they're not the threat that maybe everyone thinks they are.

I'm going the other way. It's what you just said at the beginning about how no one should be scared of going into Dallas. I don't think the Packers are clearly the best team in the NFC, but why couldn't the Packers beat anyone? Yeah, no, that's true, but they could also lose to the Bucks. Yes. They could also lose to the Giants. They could also, I mean, I don't think, I think if they went into Seattle again, when Seattle's remembered how to play football post-Darral Thomas, I would guess that Seattle wins that game.

That's the biggest thing for me is that Seattle is likely going to get that game at home. If when Green Bay goes there, if Green Bay goes there for the divisional game, it's going to be in Seattle. And that is a huge advantage for the Seahawks. Yeah. No, that's true. But wouldn't they, they would host, they may host the Bucks. Is that correct? And if they win the division in the first round?

Green Bay. Yes. Yeah, the wild card round, I'm saying. But if they'd have to, if they won a game, they would go to Seattle. Are you even sure they're going to beat the Bucks in the first round? I'm not sure they're going to. going to beat the bucks in the first round. But if Green Bay got Tampa Bay at home in Lambo, I would pick Green Bay. And that's kind of why Atlanta, even if they can get the sixth seed with a 10 and

six record, if Tampa Bay also wins out, the Falcons would really love to win the division, because instead of going to Lambo in week one, then you have somebody coming to you. It could be the Giants, though. It could be the Giants. That's a heck of a game. That is an offense, defense, matchup that I would love to watch. But it probably seems like the Giants are going to get the five seed. Which at that point would send them to Green Bay. Yes. That's what it means.

Yes. Yeah. Got it. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. We're on the same page here. One thing I want to say real quick is that when we called out for questions this week. And a lot of people have been saying to me, are you ready for your apology pod?

And what people mean by that is that I said that Aaron Rogers was the sixth best quarterback in NFL. I ranked him famously behind Andy Dalton. And I said, if he wins the MVP or the Packers win the Super Bowl, I will do a pod. Apologize. And people keep asking me when I'm going to do it, or if I'm getting ready for it, as if I don't want to do it. There's nothing I want to do more than have the apology pod. It would be the greatest pod of all time. I would have my trolls on. I would have legitimately interview my own trolls and they could just yell at me for 10 minutes. And it would be the greatest podcast in our NFL history. And you, you're the number one troll on that topic, Robert Mays.

Oh, I will definitely call in. I won't be a co-host on the show. I will be among the callers. No, it'll be me, and it will cycle through the people who have trolled me most. And don't try to people, don't try to get in late on the troll thing. These are people who have been trolling me reliably for the past six months. Even in the back, when Aaron Rogers was four and six, and everybody who's writing Aaron Rogers has done articles. And I was taking the high road at that point.

people were still trolling me those are the trolls who get on the apology pod if he wins a super bowl or gets an MVP award true true trolls that's what he has to do you said he was the sixth best quarterback in the league but he has to win the super bowl for you to have an apology podcast that was that was the that was the um i mean i will say i was wrong if he's if if at the end of the year it seems it's wrong but i i the parameters of the apology podcast so you're not willing to admit now that it's wrong i'm certainly willing to admit that i was wrong that and that and Andy Dalton was going to have a better 2016 than Aaron Rogers. That was a bad guess.

So are there five quarterbacks right now for the rest of this season that you would take over Aaron Rogers? We have to look at it in the whole. I mean, is he a top five quarterback? Yeah, probably at this point. But he also, over the entire 2016 season, that's a tough call because he did not have a great start to the season. I mean, you would put, if you did it, you know, if you go back to that podcast, you know, conventional wisdom has changed. so much. We had Cam Newton. We both had Cam Newton in the top five. Sure. We both had Carson Palmer in the top five, if I'm not mistaken. I would not have him there anymore. Yeah, I would not. I don't

have him in the league anymore. And so you would have to change everything. I mean, Matt Ryan, I don't think was top ten for either of us, was he? No. No. And so I think Matt Ryan's top five this year. And so Rogers is certainly top five. I was, not only was I wrong on that, I think everyone was wrong on a lot of quarterback stuff. I'm willing, certainly willing to admit I was wrong about Dalton and Rogers. And that's the only an idiot would stick to his guns on that. But so, yeah, if you were to re-rank, and maybe that's a good thing for us to do before the playoffs. It's just re-rank the top five.

I would say that Aaron Rogers is 65% completions, 32 touchdowns, seven interceptions, puts him among the top five quarterbacks, no matter how bad the start of his season. No, I would probably agree with you. I just have to look at it. I know Matt Ryan would be up there. I mean, at one point, we were talking about whether or not Carson Wentz was a top 10 quarterback in week three or whatever. I certainly was not. So I was not a part of that conversation. There was a Sam Bradford for MVP week in the media.

Someone, I was searching for something the other day and someone was tweeting out all the people who mentioned that Sam Bradford should win MVP. We've had a lot of peaks and valleys here in the 2016 NFL season. My Aaron Rogers Valley was never that low and my Carson Wentz peak was never that high. So I feel okay about those two. I have Carson Wentz and Andy Dalton in a similar stratosphere right now, and it's not very high. The last thing I do want to say on that is I wrote a thing about Andy Dalton a couple of weeks ago and all of the comments were people thinking that I ranked Andy Dalton number one.

That is how, there's a lot of people who think that that's, Yeah, they're like, didn't you have him as the best quarterback in the NFL? And I would like that. I would have loved to have been that bold. All right, but before we get to our spotlight, guys, let's hear from a couple of our sponsors. No team goes into the season without a game plan. If they did, game day highlights would be nothing more than a football folly's compilation.

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Credit Wise is offered by Capital One Bank, USA and A. All right, bud. Who's your first Spotlight Guy of the week? Well, it's Bruce Irvin. Yep. Because Kalil Mack is a monster. Colal Mack is in the running for defensive player of the year. Bruce Ervin is not.

But to have a force emerging on the other side of Mack is so valuable. And that's what's happening right now. Two sacks yesterday against San Diego, including some just really crucial pressures in the fourth quarter. Mack, by the way, I was in Oakland last week and just I love that team and I love that vibe. but Max pressures in the fourth quarter kind of a classic not going on the stat sheet but really I mean he almost had a strip sack on Rivers

on the final drive he almost had an interception actually which is more what what he's going for these days and he's just that defensive line is so good and now to have Irvin two sacks yesterday in his last five games

he has five sacks I mean he's just to have that guy emerge at this point in the season is such a game changer for the AFC West. Yeah. Secondary pass rushers are just so important. Because that's what you see. When you have a team with one guy, it's so easy to scheme against him.

You can slide protection. You can chip them. I mean, even last night when David Irving was somehow taking over a game, I was like, why the hell aren't they chipping that guy? It's not as if the Cowboys have some terrifying second pressure guy. DeMarcus Lawrence is standing in weird glasses on the bench. Yep. it made zero sense.

So that's why having a guy like Bruce Irvin is so damn important. Yeah, no, and it's not like they weren't adjusting to it. It's not like he had free reign, a free path to the quarterback. I mean, he has some good moves. And I think that, you know, I do think there were some questions when he went to Oakland. Maybe they're overpaying him. Maybe he's not the guy. But, you know, look, he brought a lot of a Seattle mentality.

What's interesting to me is that Ken Norton is obviously a defensive coordinator in Oakland. when he came from Seattle. Yep. But when I spoke to the players last week about, there's a couple stories that are coming up on the ringer.com about the Oakland Raiders. But one of the things that probably won't get in the stories was just that Irvin took a lot of the Seattle attitude

and gave it to players. You can have a coach who preaches this and preaches that and has this system and says this about passing. But when you have Bruce Irvin coming in and working with the guys every single day, you know, knows how to connect with the guys. He's only 29 years old, but he is a savvy veteran in a lot of ways. He was teaching them ways to rush the past.

He was teaching them new moves. And so he has been a underrated, great-for-agent signing. It's really weird that we're in a world where Bruce Irvin is some elder statesman for a team. I swear to God, I was talking to Dan Williams about some of the stuff. And he was like, no, like, you have to, Bruce Irvin has, like, had a huge impact on the defense. It's not even that. I'm not saying Bruce Irvin can't. I'm just talking about age-wise.

that Bruce Irvin's an old guy. Well, he was 20, wasn't he 25 when he was a rookie? Something. I mean, maybe. I don't know. But he, when you look at, I mean, Dan Williams is an older dude too. So I think about Dan Williams. But that's just really interesting to me. Are you worried about their offense at all? Yeah.

I mean, first of all, they're going, did you see the shotgun kneel down? So that was the thing I was going to mention. And I was going to write about this today, but I just didn't. There was too much other stuff going on in and have time to do it. When they didn't get that short touchdown, had to kick the field goal late and they had to do a one-yard plunge from the pistol, that's the type of stuff that can just totally ruin you when games get close and when it starts to really matter. That's what I'm starting to worry about. Yeah, and they were worried a little bit

about the pistol formation too. That's a work in progress. I mean, yes, I'm worried about their ability to have their offense change so dramatically because of Derek Carr's finger. And by the way, I'm not even sure that his finger is all the way back. I mean, if he was fully healthy, So you're not shot the footer-seller? No, I just on throws, I mean. I mean, just on throws. Obviously, if he's taking a kneel down and shotgun, his finger is not healthy, I'm just talking about his throws because you don't see that same accuracy.

They should have torched the chargers yesterday. Absolutely torch them. Yeah, I'm a little bit worried. It's starting to creep in where they just don't look the same. And what I really loved about them is their ability to be so versatile and just be so malleable, like running the ball and just pounding teams the way they couldn't last year. And if you can't be under center, I think that gets a little bit tougher. By the way, Dan Williams, old guy, a couple months younger than me.

God, that's terrifying. And we're like the same age. So that makes me very sad. Very good. You call him an old guy. My first guy is part of an all offensive line segment from me. Oh, my God. And it is left tackle David Bakhtiari.

All right. I'm going to leave the room. You can do this offensive line. That's fine. I'm totally set. So this is a guy who was a fourth round pick, kind of was thrown to the fire as a rookie. He started from day one at left tackle for Aaron Rogers. It has been good.

You know, he's never been a concern. Ups and downs over the last couple years. I feel like his mass was a problem early on. He could get overpowered by bull rushers. He's having the best season of his career. And with Josh Sit and gone has really elevated his play and become the best pass protector on maybe the best pass blocking line in the league. And it just, it's so impressive.

He was so casual yesterday. And he just looks so calm playing. He's just become one of those left tackles in the Tyron Smith, Joe Thomas, kind of vein, where I really enjoy watching them play because it looks the right way. I agree. You know, Batyari, first of all, he's one of the best glue guys in the NFL. Yep. Really good dude.

Loves recommending movies to teammates, obviously. I believe he started the Settlers of Katan thing in a locker room, which is as as valuable a service. I don't play Katan, but I know that it has helped the Packers win. all these games these last few years. Yeah, I mean, just, I mean, is the, where would you rank this Packers' offensive line, Robert, in the last couple of years of Packers' offensive lines?

I would say it's not quite as good as like the 2014 group. Yeah. When I went up there and wrote about them and that the group had Sitten, even though, here's the thing, personnel-wise guy for guy, it's not as good without Sitton, but I think Bactiari and Boolaga are playing better. So it's probably pretty close. Yeah.

As a run blocking, sorry, as a run blocking group, I don't think they're where they were in that season. Did you just knock down your microphone? Yes, I did. So excited about offensive line talk? Yes, I absolutely did. That's 100% what happened. Okay. Just making sure whatever the listener heard that.

All right. I'm just going to roll right into my next group because it's related. Okay. The Falcons offensive line was just monstrous yesterday. And I know they're playing San Francisco, but that unit and that scheme, I just love watching them run block. Because the way that Shanahan builds in space is. so smart. They did a lot of plays yesterday where their entire group would block down and then Hooper would come across. And just the lanes it creates for Devante Freeman, it allows

him to destroy people. And I love watching them right now. Alex Mack has made a bigger difference for a unit than maybe any other single free agent signing in the entire league. That's a good argument. Yeah, I don't know anybody else who's changed a unit so dramatically. If you look at what they have outside of the edition of Taylor Gabriel, the return of Tevin Coleman, It's more or less the same group they had offensively as last year. I will say this. Brock Osweiler sank the Texans quarterback. That's a good one.

It goes the other way. Yeah. He really screwed that out. All right. Who's your second one? Well, funny we bring up Brock Osweiler because my second one is Mr. Tom Savage. Tom Savage. Yes.

260 yards in relief of Brock. 85 quarterback rating completed 63% of his passes. Now, what I want to talk about is why do you think Brock kept his helmet on the entire time? Was it now, there's two ways to go about this. Number one is that he was upset and he didn't want him to see that he was angry. The other one is, and I've seen this a lot, is you keep your helmet on to indicate to the coach that you're ready to go back in. Maybe that was it?

I don't know. I would say it's a little bit of both would be my guess. Keeping the quarterback, keeping the helmet on for a backup quarterback is a very aggressive move. Do you have anything else you want to say about Savage? I mean, I just feel like he looked competent. and he knows who to throw the ball to. DeAndre Hopkins had 17 targets. He's one of these guys.

There was so much, he was a weird pre-draft hype guy. Do you remember this? A lot of tools. Yeah, a month before. It's like, well, you know, it's a 2014 draft. A lot of people talking about Johnny Mansell or, you know, it was a weird quarterback draft, by the way. But I like the scout community had a late run on Tom Savage.

I like this savage guy. Went to three colleges, which is interesting. I went to three colleges, but, you know, that was because no one was. would start me a quarterback. And just like Savage, we have a lot in common. And so, yeah, I just, I think that he's competent. And I think he can get the ball to the playmakers.

And I think Lamar Miller can do stuff. By the way, Lamar Miller had to calm the crowd down when they were freaking out so much about Brock getting benched. They were excited and Lamar had to say, please stop clapping. Oh, God, that's awful. I feel bad for the guy at this point. It was an amazing few moments. I mean, Brock can dry his tears.

There's $18 million cash, but I still feel kind of bad for the guy right now. The dude got clowned, though. Yeah, that's really bad. You can't take an L in exchange for $18 million. That's not a fair trade. You can't put a price tag on an L like that, Mays. That's probably fair. All right, buddy, now it's time for our fan question of the week, brought to you by Miller

Light. The light beer with more tastes, less calories, and half the carbs, so that on any given Sunday, you don't have to settle for any given light beer. This question is just what I love. from Allen Corridor on Twitter. Dodgeball was added to the Pro Bowl, which players would you want on your team? Very straightforward, but a lot to unpack here.

Okay, so first of all, one bit of news here is that Antonio Brown told NBC last week that one player he'd want to hit is Vontes Perfect, which I think is also an interesting question who would want to hit. So you'd want a guy, first of all, just give me your parameters for the perfect dodgeball player

before we get into this. So this is what I wanted to talk about. Who are you looking for? Because I feel like the guy that was good in Dodgeball at high school was that competitive prick that took it way too seriously. Which means that like Watt and Steve Smith

would probably be my number one and two selections. Yeah, and also let's not overrate the arm strength here because everybody played quarterback in high school. Exactly. All these guys can throw. All these guys can throw.

So maybe, you know, a mixture of explosion and speed. You know, you don't want to get hit. Maybe a Darren Sproles, you know, because he'd be fast enough, but he also would be small enough. You don't want, like, Kululalak, he's massive. You know, you could hit his ankle or something. Sprouls is a good one. I still think the guy you mentioned at the top of this, based on the question he was asked,

Antonio Brown has to be an amazing dodgeball player. Yeah. I'm looking at, like, really good route runners. Like, I feel like Beckham would be an incredible dodgeball player. Like, he would just catch everything thrown at him. That's something else you have to take into account. Some of these receivers could just pick shit. Becca might be number one.

Because he can also throw. He probably is the number one pick, right? He can throw like 90 yards or something. Yeah. I think he's got to be the number one pick. Yeah. He can't throw 90 yards. He can throw like 40 yards. Small receivers, I feel like got to be pretty good.

I think Rogers would be pretty high up there for me. I mean, watch him dance around and chuck the ball. I mean, he has to be in the conversation. Yeah, no, look, anybody, I don't know. I mean, would you won Von Miller on your time? team bending Mr. Rubber Bandman? Yeah, the rubber band man has to be in this conversation. She got some flexibility down there.

I feel like Larry Fitzgerald would be a really good dodgeball player again. Just like, it doesn't matter where you throw it. He's going to pick it off the ground with one hand. Awareness. Yep. Brock Osau would be the worst. He honestly would be. Six foot eight.

Six foot eight is what really doesn't mean. Can't move. And also he just like, he looks like the type of person that all of the other players would want to throw out immediately. Who's number one on that list? Who is the guy that everyone would want to peg in the face from the moment the game starts? Well, on the Broncos, Akib Taleb is just going to nail Russell Okun

immediately. Over and over again. Just immediately, yes. As he's walking off, he has hit some five more times. Yes, exactly. Oh, God. Who is number one? Maybe the listeners can also chime in on this.

Yeah, we would like to hear from you guys. Beckham is probably my number one. Oh, I'm sorry. I was asking a different question. I was asking who would be the first hit if it were a lead. Oh, yeah. I want to know that as well. If it were a league-wide game, who would the most players say, I'm going to hit this guy? By the way, I know what the answer to this question is.

Tell me. It's Jay Cutler. Oh, yeah. Would Cutler not be off to the sideline of the dodgeball game, just looking sort of down in a jacket? Yeah, he would just get out on purpose right away and go smoke a cigarette as if you're standing on the side of the court. Yeah. So I don't know. I think he would want to, I don't know if they would want to give him the same.

satisfaction of getting out immediately. One guy who would be an excellent dodgeball player is the bear's starting quarterback of the future Matt Barkley. Matt Barkley is going to have, would you, what would you do? Would you do the bridge deal for $60 million over three years at this point? You made this joke on Twitter yesterday. He's going to run it back. Yeah.

So, we've had another game where he's looked decent. For 30 seconds, let's do my Matt Barkley's psyche. Do you have a Berkeley jersey yet? No, I have a Barclay Journal. I mean, it's scrawled of blood at this point. I, over the course of that game, I just had so many emotions. There was a point where I kind of resigned myself to the fact that it was going to happen. And then he's going to start game one of 2017.

Yeah. Can we get Osweiler in that quarterback competition? I hate you so much. Why are you doing this to me? Can you not see it? How can you not see the press conference where Rick Smith's like, we made a huge mistake. It's 25,000 dollar cap hit, but it's not good. for our room. We're going to let him go. And then he signs with Chicago for $8 million.

I would hitchhike out of town. I'm not even joking. I would leave. A little quarterback competition. I would leave. If there is one thing that could instantly bring me back to Los Angeles, it would be that. Who's the third man in on that competition besides Barkley and Osweiler? Is it Scott Tolzee? Is he available? I feel like that would really put the trifecta together for me. He's a local guy. Local guy. Yeah. You know what the actual answer is? It's probably Jimmy G. Who's also a local guy? Oh, my God. No, well, Jimmy G.

If it was, are they going to trade for Jimmy G? Who knows? But then that would change everything because then they couldn't bring in Brock or even, they wouldn't even re-sign Barclay at that rate. Barclay's a restricted free agent, which means someone's going to make a, they're not, look, someone

sent me a message yesterday asking if he was going to make like $10 million. No, he's not, he did not look good enough. He doesn't even beat a good team. Like, he almost beat the Packers and then threw two bad interceptions. He's going to make like $4 million. He threw two bad interceptions in a ice

he threw two bad interceptions on Hoth and they were just high throws. It's not as if they were terrible decisions or whatever. Oh, so it's, okay. I feel like he looked good throwing the ball yesterday. Okay, so it settled. You wanted to be the started next year. Great. I was impressed by him again yesterday. Okay. Wow. This is a big turn for you.

I mean, I'm not an idiot. The guy played decent. I just feel like we have a very limited track record of 26-year-old quarterbacks with five starts that end up being productive NFL starters. Yeah, what about Brock Osweiler? Exactly. If we need a cautionary tale, there it is.

All right, bud. Is that all we got this week? That's all we got. I could talk about Brock Osweil for another hour. I know you could talk about Matt Barkley for another hour, and I'm sure we will next week. Danny and I will be back with our normal Friday show this week. As always, really appreciate you guys listening and hope we can enjoy

all the craziness together these next few weeks. I'll see you. Thanks again to Capital One's Credit Wise app for sponsoring us today. Capital One created the Credit Wise app so you can check your credit score anytime you want right in the app. It's free to everyone, so download Credit Wise today. Availability depends on presence of credit history from TransUnion. CreditWise is offered by Capital One Bank, USANA.