The Ringer NFL Show - Ep. 64: Wild-Card Wrap-up Featuring Shea Serrano

Episode Date: January 9, 2017

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Kevin Clark discuss how the Packers pulled away from the Giants (1:10), Pittsburgh's victory over Miami (12:29), and the Lions' loss to the Seahawks (20:22). Then, Shea Serrano joins the show to analyze the Texans' big win over the Raiders (26:15). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

No team goes into the season without a game plan, and Buffalo Wild Wings knows that football fans need a game plan that's built for game day glory. A game plan that should include 21 signature sauces and seasonings, a great lineup of beer taps, and an arsenal of wall-to-wall TVs. All those details make for a game day plan that can't be beat. So, win or lose, if you're a football fan, you still win at having the best game day atmosphere around. Buffalo Wild Wings, Wings, beer, sports. We do it for you because you're a football fan. To the Ring Round NFL show. My name is Robert Mays.

I'm a writer at the ringer. Joining me on the other line, it's Kevin Clark. Kevin, how are you? I'm ready to live in the world with Brock Osweilers in the second round of the playoffs. It's a wonderful, wonderful world. It's like, have you seen La La Land? I'm not. That's kind of how I feel.

Just every 20 minutes or so, I should just get into a soft shoe number with Emma Stone overlooking the Hollywood Hills. Like, that's how much beauty there is in the planet right now. It's a beautiful thing, Robert. Let's go in reverse order. How does that sound? Let's start with what was kind of the biggest game of the weekend last night in Green Bay, Wisconsin. I was there.

Is there anything else to say aside to the fact that Aaron Rogers is from another planet? Well, I'm on a boat right now with Tray Song's 11 Giants players. Beaver is here. For some reason, all the Raiders showed up now because they're available. I thought I was surprised. I was not surprised, first of all, that Aaron Rogers was amazing and looked as good as I've seen a quarterback look in the playoffs. That part we know, I was shocked at how bad the Giants were and how easily they fell apart.

Because I thought when they closed the gap in the third quarter, I thought we were going to see sort of a classic back-and-forth game. And they just stunk. It was terrible. As Trey Songs pointed out, noted football analyst Trey Songs, the defensive backs were not on the boat. And neither was Eli Manning. And that's something that should probably be mentioned here.

Can you imagine being on a boat with Eli Manning? I absolutely could not. I mean, yeah, it would be like a carnival cruise liner. It would be the cheesiest thing that's ever happened. A lion shirt, two size is too big. Yeah. All right, a couple of things I want to hit. Where do you get to Eli Manning and his just not great play yesterday?

And that being one of the reasons that the Giants struggled offensively all year. But the apparel on the boat, I understand that it was a yacht. And I understand that they're like guys from New York wearing their Tims. It's not proper yacht apparel. It's not proper boating apparel. You should not be wearing shoes and jeans on a boat. It's all I have to say. I don't know.

I lived in Miami. I went to college in Miami. There is no proper yacht attire in Miami. That's a good point. There's no proper tire anywhere in Miami. It's ludicrous city. You can just wear whatever you want anywhere. And then you just explain it away to say, I'm an artist, and then you're fine.

And also, I know a yacht isn't some skiff where you're walking around in sandals and that Hawaiian shirt. It's still just funny to see dudes on a boat wearing that. So that's all I have to say. But the Eli Manning thing is something we're talking about. He was not good again yesterday. And he's not been good all season. It's been a rough year for Eli. He had 6.7 yards per attempt.

It's lowest in a while. Even worse than that year he threw 20 or how many picks. I mean, 20-something interceptions a couple seasons ago. He was bad. He was bad again yesterday. And that team doesn't have the running game to overcome not having a quarterback playing well. Oh my God. What a take.

From the New York Daily News, giants led by Odell Beckham and the party boat waste another chance for Eli Manning to win the Super Bowl. That's incredible. That is just out of this world bad. Oh, my God, that's a good take. Oh, my God, that's awful. I'm jealous of the ability to see that game and craft that take. Odell's a drop on the first trip. Sorry.

Speaking of drops. I'm so upset. Speaking of dropping my mic stand over here. Odell's drop on the first drive. bad, right? That ball hits from the hands. That should be a touchdown. But the ball that Sterling Shepard had come back around on and wait on should have been a touchdown if Eli had thrown that properly. The ball that Odell dropped down the red side line that he had to go full extension for probably could have been a better throw to a wide open receiver. Like,

Eli Manning did not play well yesterday. No. And I think that we, look, you sometimes see the game too simplistically when you see something amazing happen. When Odell Beckham is able to take a slant and turn it into a 60-yard touchdown, you say, well, okay, I know it's Eli Manning, but this is repeatable, this is sustainable. All Eli Manning has to do is throw these slants and everything will be fine. I think that a couple of things happen. Number one, they fell a little bit too in love with the deep ball against a defensive back unit that is okay giving up the deep ball. I think they saw they could exploit them. But on the other hand, it's Eli Manning throwing deep balls. Just throw the slant over and over. They should have gone full.

Alex Smith yesterday. And that's what they did on the first drive. They had like three or four underneath throws. They moved the ball down the field with ease. And then they came away with field goals in the first two possessions. No, I know. But then they went deeper and they came away with nothing. Yes.

And then it changed because you start getting a little antsy. And that was the thing when they didn't score touchdowns in those first couple drives is that in the back of your mind you're thinking, Rogers is going to score. I mean, Rogers is going to get a couple touchdowns before this is over. Yeah. Don't go field goal. Don't try to trade field goals with the agreement backers.

because they will not be kicking field goals. The throw that Roger cited yesterday, he said he kind of got in rhythm in the second quarter, asked him which throw he felt like kind of he settled in with. And there was a ball he threw to Devante Adams down the right side line, that the angle I had in the press box was actually pretty fantastic for seeing it. The way it kind of like exploded off his hand and just couldn't have been better, that's the type of stuff when you see him live, it's like, oh, yeah, he's just not real.

It's absolutely unbelievable. Like there's certain, watching NFL games live is an interesting. experience. Not a ton of it translates, but throws he makes down the field are just something to behold when you get to watch it happen. Yeah. No, I mean, the only things that really stand, when you watch NFL game live, it's just great quarterback play and speed are the two things that really, really stand out. And, you know, the most sort of visually arresting thing in a live football game is when you see a guy come open before, you know, and you see what's going to happen.

Totally. What happened yesterday, I would imagine. was just a joy to watch just because, you know, it wasn't like guys were getting wide open. He was just fine. He was old Rogers, throwing guys open, finding the windows in man coverage. I thought it was great. Yeah.

The throw to Adams is probably my favorite. And then the one he had to him in the end zone for the touchdown, just the moving around everything else when he does that. It's really something else. Should we talk about the hell, Mary? I mean, I don't know what there is to talk about. I was on the phone with our dear leader, Mallory Rubin. and I saw, I was the end of the half, and I was on the phone and I said, hey, I guarantee Roger is going to get this.

And it happened. He said a bunch of interesting stuff about it after the game. He said that I asked him, I said, did you have to think about not throwing it out of the back of the end zone? Because from 50 yards, they were in the 50, or excuse me, the 42 yard line. He could easily chuck that thing out of the back of the end zone. I mean, the ones he's had in the past were from like 70. So if you feel like he has to consciously think about, I cannot throw this as far as I can,

because then it falls incomplete and it doesn't matter. So the fact that he could get the trajectory of the ball exactly right to put it in the very back half of the end zone without doing that, it's just ridiculous all the calibrations that have to go into it. Yeah, I agree with you, but I also think that there's something, and, you know, they talked about this a little bit yesterday. There's something schematically, you know, they practice it obviously.

The ability for Cobb to just be uncovered in the back of the end zone, that's also on just the ability of the receivers and the Titans to work in concert. Because there is so much misdirection involved. There's so much, you know, sort of illusions that have to go for DBs to let their guard down. So it was a, I know the throw is incredible and the arch is incredible, but it's also a total team play. Absolutely. And what he said afterwards is that the arc they put on the ball,

that's a little bit different than what most teams do. And they've gotten used to looking at that ball coming down and practice. He said they haven't practiced it since week four or five. So it's not something they do every week. But Cobb is used to looking at Hail Mary's from that angle. He said they practiced every Saturday. Is this another rift between McCarthy and Rogers? It might be because Roger said they hadn't practiced since week four or five.

Maybe they practiced it with Brett Huntley. Okay, he said he hadn't thrown at Hill Mary since week four or five. So maybe they've practiced the actual mechanics of it who moves where and what. Fake news, Robert. There you go. Hey, you know what? I'm just trying to report the facts, man. So, yeah, I mean, it's just amazing to watch that.

And the fact that they've done it three times in a year is just bonkers. But, yeah, man, I mean, I don't, what we said coming into that game, and we have all talked about it, the Giants defense was the best defense in the league by season's end, the best defense in the playoffs. And at a certain point, it just might not have mattered because of Aaron Rogers. Was the Giants, do you? Now I'm just questioning the entire NFL season.

What the hell? I think they're pretty damn good, man. The Giants defense? Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree with you. I just have no idea what happened yesterday. I mean, maybe the cold affects them, but I mean, they're from,

they live in New York. I think there are a couple different things. One, they consciously chose not to really rush Rogers. Yeah. And that was actually working at the beginning, because I know when he's bouncing. sitting around back there, it looks really cool. But when he's not in rhythm and they're not making throws within this kind of timing of

the offense and the way it's supposed to work, they can get hung up. And that's what happened early in the game. So when they got to get away from that, I feel like is when they really lit a fire, like they started getting on fire. And one of the things that led to that was they started picking on Trevin Wade pretty consistently. Dominique Rogers Camardi getting hurt and Cobb and Adams moving into the slot and working against Wade became a huge part of their

gameplay. Yeah, I mean, the DRC injury was, as soon as I saw that, I thought it might be a tough day for the Giants, but I still thought they, you know, they still had the defensive line. I don't know. I was just, they still had, I mean, Janoris Jenkins made some pretty dumb mistakes.

Yeah, had a couple of past interference against Jordy at one point, got beaten the end zone, I think at one point as well. Yeah, I was just, that was an uncharacteristic display, and I can't believe they wasted another chance for Eli Manied, we're in a Super Bowl. I know. How dare they? Eli wasn't anywhere near that boat and everyone else that was should be ashamed.

The Jordy Nelson injury probably we're talking about. I mean, that is, that's probably going to come up. If he can't play next week, as much as Rogers has reached a point where it's like, oh, he can do anything, when you start running out of dues and it's your best receiver, that's probably something to pay attention to. Yeah, they looked pretty damn good without him. I don't want to say that Jordy Nelson's injury isn't going to be a massive blow because it is if he misses time. But I don't think that that greatly impacts their ability to win on Sunday. I don't really think it does either. Jordy's been good, the numbers especially this year.

But if you watch him, he's not the same guy. He just isn't fully back from that knee. And when you're in your 30s and your tear ACL, that's not surprising. No. He's really good at finding soft spots and zones, just doing subtle things that make. him work in concert with Rogers very well, but those plays down the field that used to be a trademark of the Jordy Nelson-era-R-Rogers connection are not there anymore. So that's not the element you're losing. You're more so just losing a guy who knows the ins and outs of your

quarterback as well, of your quarterback as well as anybody. Yeah. No, and that's that's a thing. And the ability when Rogers extends plays, like you said, the rhythm is so important that you need guys to sort of know how he's going to operate when he's outside the pocket. And that's that's the biggest thing. And I think you're going to lose a little bit of that. But like, Rogers will. Yeah. He clearly will based on what we've seen for the last two months. All right. The next one, yesterday's afternoon game, a game that I thought had way too big of a line, which is 10 points in Pittsburgh's favor. Turns out not the case. Steelers not much trouble in disposing of Miami. Vegas. Vegas knows.

The reason they got all those tall buildings is because they make a lot of money. What is there to say about this game? I think it went about as well as it could for the Steelers in the way you might have thought. It's like, Levyon Bell and Antonio Brown are better than you. Yeah, there was nothing. I mean, Antonio Brown is so damn good. Levyon Bell was so damn good.

I mean, I thought it was funny. I mean, it was almost like, you ever go to a concert and like they feature one band member every 20 minutes? You know, it's like, now here comes the drum. solo. Metallica does that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. That was sort of what the Steelers are doing.

It's like, here's Antonio Brown solo. And then it's like, and now here comes Levi-on-Bell. And then Bell does like a 20-minute drum solo. That's what the Steelers were. They were, you know, they're not the giants who had one guy, Oda Beckham, and if he wasn't able to do anything,

it was over. It was just a bunch of guys who were like, yeah, great. I mean, even Ben Rothesburg. I mean, they are so deep. They have a offensive line. I mean, their defense is holding up. I mean, Matt Moore made some terrible mistakes and some terrible fumbles. But on the other hand, the pass rush is what caused those. So I don't know if they're playing a more competent quarterback if they have a rougher time. But, you know, look, those were not exactly unforced errors that Moore was making,

even though they looked incredibly stupid. I totally agree. I really like what I saw from that defense yesterday. I feel like Bud Tupree is somebody we talked about a few weeks. go when he came back, but he's making his presence felt. And I'm not just talking about rattling Matt Moore's teeth around in his head. Matt Moore literally said after the game, Matt Moore was asked about the hit and he said, I was looking for my teeth, but I was okay. I don't understand how he comes back in the game one play later. That is just a breakdown in the system at every single level.

Yeah, not good. It was interesting to me how many plays that hit affected, because you also, had the holding penalty a couple plays later where Dupree basically looked like he was going to kill him more again and the offensive line was Albert somebody like that just said

it was Juan James excuse me John James just said okay I'm gonna I'm gonna just get a holding penalty so my quarterback doesn't get killed and that killed a drive that was kind of decent at that point well it's also first of 25 because the Jai you got dinged for the personal file I thought that was a little bit ridiculous

that was dumb I mean that's unbleau that you're going to throw that flag after your quarterback nearly gets decapitated. I mean, I hated that, but what are you going to do? Ref's going to ref at this point in this season. I really, really liked what I saw from the Pittsburgh defense. I think that you preplayed great. I thought that to it being back made a difference. He's just a good player.

Shazir showed up. Lawrence Timmons with two sacks. It just felt like everybody got it on the act. And they have enough talent in the front seven to give teams problems, even if you're slightly worried about a young secondary. Yeah. No, I think Kansas City have been an interesting test. So much speed on that offense with Terry Kill, obviously. I, you know, at this point, who would you go with? I'm going to go with Pittsburgh because I think they're a bad matchup for Kansas City.

I like what the speed that Pittsburgh has was Shazir and the linebacker play they're getting. And then on the other side of the ball, it's interesting to see this transition for the Steelers' offense. Last year, they were this burn it down, we'll beat you over the top, slinging around the yard sort of group, and that was even with Levi-on-Bell. Now they're winning playoff games with Ben Rathesburg are thrown 18 passes.

They really seem like they're trying to take him out of the game because, like what Danny Kelly wrote last week, he's kind of all over the place. So if you feel like you have enough talent that you want to mitigate your quarterback's impact because you don't know which quarterback you're going to get, they have the talent to do that and the personnel to do it, And Kansas City is the right team to do it against because their run defense is kind of hot garbage right now.

Yeah. I'm intrigued to see the standouts. You know, we talk about the chiefs having great playmakers on defense, but not necessarily being a great defense statistically. They give up a lot of yards, but they just create turnovers better than anybody. Yep. I'm intrigued to see how those superstars on the Kansas City defense, whether that's Eric Barry, Marcus Peters, some of the D-Linman. I'm intrigued to see how they operate against the Steelers because I could see them

I don't know I mean I think being a defense gives up a lot of yards is not necessarily great against a team that can do about five things to hurt you but that's the thing though I think they're running out of things to hurt you since Sammy Coates I wrote a today went into witness protection

they have had nothing down the field they've really struggled and that's a combination of not having a threat and Rathustberger being a little bit off Rothera burger's in a walking boot, by the way. No one seems to care about that. I can't even believe I haven't mentioned that. But at this point, is there anybody that could be in a walking boot and have it matter less?

He's going to be in a walking boot on the field. Yeah, and no, it's going to even mention it. It's like, oh, we forgot. In like two years, Rathusberger is just going to be sitting down for an entire game. Still throw up for like 260? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Three touchdowns. I really, it's an interesting transition that they've gone through,

but I still feel like they have a ton of potency. even while limited, and that speaks to just the transcendent talent of the players that have the ball in their hands. Yeah. No, it's just, it's as simple as that. They're just great with the ball. One other thing that's notable about this group and also all of the offenses that are kind of remaining in the NFL in the league right now, all the good ones, these teams are remarkably

healthy. Like, Rob Gronkowski is hurt and Tony Romo is hurt. Outside of those two guys, when we're looking at the. very good offenses that remain, pretty much everyone is still around. You know, the Steelers have their entire line, Brown Bell and Ruffisberger for the first time, which is absurd. The Packers just lost Jordy, but outside of that, they have everybody on that offense. The running back doesn't really bother me.

Like, Ty Montgomery is no worse than Eddie Lacey. They're not getting anything less from the running game. Is there an injury on Green Bay's offense, obviously non-Rogers division that would worry you? Would it be one of the, like, a, like, a, It would be Bakhtiari because the way he's able to kind of understand Rogers' flight path during some of those plays and Stonewall guys not only coming off the edge with speed, but knowing what he has to do after that bouncing act starts, I feel like it's an underrated learned skill. Yep. No, I agree. You just have to be around him for a couple of years to figure out where he's going with things.

He was talking about yesterday. He said that he doesn't look at the rush. He just kind of feels where the spots are. and it only, it has to be a matter of experience and time for the linemen to get how that actually works, which is really just like a fascinating element that no other quarterback in the league really does. Wilson's going to move around, but it's usually outside of the pocket, and Brady's pocket manipulation is much quicker and much subtler. So it's just something that as an offensive lineman,

you never would have had to deal with before you played with him. I have a question. How close were you last night being there to the, O'Dell Beckham hole in the wall. I was not near that part of the underbelly of Lambeau Field. You know, like when you walk down the stairs, you can go right to go to the Packers and you go down the other way to go to the visitors locker room. I did not go that way.

So I missed it. All right, let's get to the late Saturday game. The Seahawks and the Lions, yeah, oh, boy, is the only way to say this. Another game that just went about how you expected it to go. I mean, a couple slight wrinkles in the sense that Paul Richardson is now Randy Moss. and Thomas Rawls is now Marchion Lynch. So that was kind of a nice surprise

for Seahawks fans. But I also think that they're playing against the Lions. For the most part, that game went how I figured it might. Yeah, I mean, there wasn't anything surprising. Stafford is still not the Stafford we saw

in September and October. Paul Richardson obviously emerged as, I don't know, playoff X factor. If I'm a Seahs fan, I'm feeling pretty good. Those are the guys you need, right? Yeah.

Those are the guys that show up the playoffs and when you're an offense that's been struggling, you especially need guys like that. Yeah, no, right, exactly. And so, I mean, I don't know how much you can glean from the defense from the Seattle defense. And that's the big question at this point. I mean, now they're going into Atlanta. I think, I don't know. I mean, they went down 31-0 last year to the Panthers. And so it's not like we haven't seen them be blown out before. I don't think it's going to be that close this weekend. I don't think it's going to be, I think I think I could see, like, I don't know, you know, 28, 14 type thing.

Yeah, yeah, not a monstrous blowout where they blow up the scoreboard, but the game never feels in doubt. Yeah, that's the type of thing I could see as well. There are a few things watching that that make me think, okay, this would work against Atlanta and a few things that make me think, eh, I'm a little dubious of this. One, the running game, if it's working, should work against the Falcons, because that team cannot stop the run for anything.

So you'd hope that this isn't just something. blip and that Rawls can actually give them something. The other thing I watched on Saturday, though, that made me worry is that Ziggi onset had two sacks this year and he had two more against George Fant. Vic Beasley had 15 and a half. And I feel like he's going to be a little bit more of a factor in that game. So there's the, the Atlanta has the personnel that you feel like they can, to see how to be able to run the ball, but I also think their past rush is going to show up

a little bit more. So that's the concern. Yeah. No, I agree. I mean, I think the biggest thing is Vic Beasley against the Seahawks offensive line. I mean, that could get kind of ugly, right? Yes, I absolutely think it can, and I think it probably will. So that's an issue.

And then, you know, we'll see. I think that the Falcons are just a completely different animal when it comes to stopping an offense. There was some analysts last night who were talking about how, as a unit, the Falcons are not that athletic on defense. But I think that Vic Beasley, Dion Jones, Keanu Neal, those three guys are athletic enough down the middle to be game wreckers. Vic Beasley is a strip sack waiting to happen. And so I think all it takes is one of those plays. The Falcons are already going to score a ton of points. And that's where I see this game turning.

And that's why I see it as a two touchdown, two and a half touchdown game, because I think that they're already going to score 28 to 30 points. And then the Seahawks are going to lose a couple of possessions just because of the. of defensive plays made by those guys. I totally agree. I think that overall, it is a unit that lacks athleticism, especially off the edge outside of Beasley. There isn't much. You know, Adrian Claiborne's Brooks Reed, Courtney Upshaw, these aren't twitchy guys. But Beasley Jones and Neil give you something, and they have all season.

And I think that's what separates this Falcons defense from the other bad defenses that remain in the playoffs is that they just have more pop with these young guys that can really make a play here and there. and with that offense, that's all you need. Yeah. And that's it. And that's what's going to come down to. I don't really, if you put a percentage on the Seahawks winning this game, what would you say?

Oh, I would say it's not that low. I mean, maybe like 30%. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. Yeah, I mean, there's still the Seahawks. They still have Bobby Wagner playing out of his mind and Camp Chancellor, Michael Bennett, and Cliff Averill. Like, there are dudes on that team that can win you a playoff football game even against a good team. It wouldn't surprise me in the least. I feel like Atlanta is a bad matchup for them in a way that Detroit is not on any single level,

but I still could see the Seahawks winning this game. Seahawks still have some game wreckers. Yeah, they've got a couple. If you told me you had Bobby Wagner in the top three or four for your defensive player of the year award ballot, I wouldn't blink. Yeah, I didn't have a defensive player of the year ballot. No, I mean, neither did I. Yeah, I just did.

I just made one out of thin air. He's number three on mine. I don't know who the other guys are. Yeah, no, Bobby Wagner is incredible. It's just I think we're still seeing more and more each week have valuable automuses. Yeah, it never ceases to show up. It wasn't going to against Detroit. Guess what, guys, it's going to against Julio Jones and Tara Gabriel.

So that should be pretty fun. Oh, my God. All, Kevin, we got one more game to talk about, obviously, and we were going to do that with Texan Superfan and ringer colleague Shea Serrano. But before we get to the Texans Raiders game, let's hear from one of our sponsors. No team goes into the season. without a game plan. If they did, Game Day highlights would be nothing more than a football

Follies compilation. And while Follies are hilarious, Buffalo Wild Wings knows, fans prefer the taste of glory on game day. The kind of glory that comes with having 21 signature sauces and seasonings to choose from, or a great lineup of cold and refreshing beers on tap, or a collection of wall-to-wall flat

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We are now welcomed by the Ringer's resident Houston Texans fan, the Ringer's Jack of All Trades and just general superhuman. Shea Serrano, Shea, thank you for doing this. What up, homie? I really wanted to have you on because I can't picture anyone that would be better at kind of trying to walk me through the emotions of seeing Brock Osweiler have a little bit of competency and make some throws that I don't think anyone on Earth thought he could make on Saturday. Just to be clear, Shea and Brock Osweiler's family were the only two groups of people that believed in Brock Osweiler still.

It's so true. It's so, so true. Shea, what was it like for you? I just want to know. It was incredibly fulfilling is what it was to watch him throw the ball and somebody on the other end catch it. I don't know. It felt good. It felt just perfect, is what it felt. like. What was the reason that you had kept holding out hope? Is it because you didn't have any other chance? Was like a Stockholm syndrome sort of scenario? No, I just saw it. I looked in his eyes through the TV when they announced that they were picking him or I'd traded for him. I signed them. And I just knew that greatness was ahead. I mean, he is very tall and he is very handsome. I mean,

there's a lot to like about what he physically looks like as a quarterback. But I would say over the last four months, most of that goodwill had fallen away for me, and I assume most of the people of Houston. Yes, everybody here hates him. That's very obvious. How do they feel now? They feel, they hate him less. They hate him 40% now.

They're still like wondering, is Tom Savage going to start next week? That's where we are. So, based on what happened on Saturday with Brock making those couple throws, this one down the sidelines at Deandra Hopkins is the one that comes to mind. Like, that's just a ball that was not there at any other points in the season. Like him competing, or completing crossing routes to C.J. Fedorowitz and Ryan Griffin, it's like, okay, that's fine. I've seen that a little bit before.

But that heaved on the sideline was new. Does any of this, with him doing that, with Clowny just turning into whatever he is right now, give you the slightest semblance of hope that the Texans can beat New England next week? 100% yes. that pass that he threw that you're talking about. He had been trying to make that pass off the season for the first, what, 14 games or something like that. And every time he threw it like

fucking 12 yards out of bounds or something. It's so true. And he finally didn't throw it out of bounds and DeAndre caught it. I think he just figured out that DeAndre Hopkins is on his team. When that happened, he was like, wait a second. They met. They met about two hours for game time.

They were in the same restaurant. and they were like, where do you play? Oh, wow, okay. You look tall. What do you do for a living? So that throw him and Fador like we're just in a group. This is what's going to happen. There are three, I think there are three strings of reality that we're going to walk down right now.

I think we're either looking at 2000, the Super Bowl from 2000 when the Ravens won, and Trent Dilfer was their quarterback. Like that's really all we need for Brock, just to be Trent Dilfer, a month. You can do that. You should be able to do that. But that's one of them, I think. That's the third place scenario. Second place scenario. We're looking at the 2012

Super Bowl when Joe Flacco just was, he just didn't screw up and he was great in the playoffs and they won that Super Bowl. Or, or the number one scenario that I think we're looking at. I think he's tall Tom Brady. I think this is 2002. He just came in.

He's tall Tom Brady. Each one of these, in that case, Tom Brady came in for Drew Bloods, though. Brock had to lose his spot to Tom so that he could come in behind Tom and take his spot back. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's all there. It's all, it's just, it's in your face.

Just look at it. Just open your eyes, guys. Come on. Hey, Shay, what do you think of all the JJ Watt sideline shots after every time Whitney Merciless or Jadavenian Connie does something? It was going to be my next question. I was been very curious. Yeah, that's, uh, that's great.

It's great for JJ that he's still affecting the game on the sideline. Like when they, when they, when DeVion intercepted that ball, you were like, that was great play. JJ Watch just helped me. Without JJ on the sideline, DeVion never makes that play, is what it feels like.

Okay. So that was, that was great. As the resident, JJ Watch defender, I feel like I have to speak up here as he's been slandered nonstop for the past four days.

Isn't it somewhat of ESPN's fault? The fact that at every single turn they're going to show him, it wasn't as if you were sprinting before the game on the field. I mean, I know he bleak. He leads to this and he lends to this happening.

But it just feels like it's coming from like 10 different directions to make it worse. He was out in the middle of the field between plays like hollering instructions and Dave and Clowny. They have like defensive linemen have like five different coaches. They don't need another one in a fleece. He's the new Captain America. So he's tried. I think he wants to be like the football version of the rock. And he's eventually going to just go down that path.

So he's got to be out there You know what I'm saying? But that said, DeVion, I'm excited. I'm excited for the Javion. It's all falling into play. We're going to win the Super Bowl.

Y'all are going to really, we're going to have this same conversation in a month, and I'll be like, I told you all. And you guys are going to be like, yeah, you did. That's going to happen. I also feel like it's important that a Tom came in for Brock,

and that's who he had to take the job back from. It feels like it's all coming full circle of scenario number three is going to play out. Exactly. That's exactly what it is. All of the pieces, it's really remarkable. Like, even if we're talking about Jadion as the new JJ Watt. Like, all of this stuff that happened in the – this was his first playoff game.

J.J. Watts' first playoff game, he had that same interception where he ran back on touchdown. That really, like, shot him in a startup. They're both 23 when it happened. I believe J.J.O. 23. I know it was his first playoff game. It was both in the first half that both led to victory. Like, it's, dude, this is the universe tying up all these loose ends to make this perfect. for the Houston, Texas.

I love it. All right, buddy. Thank you very much for doing this. Best of luck for just Brock's coronation over the next month or so. And hopefully we will see you at the Super Bowl in Texas when the Texans are beating whoever that very unlucky NFC team is that has to come play, though. The all Texas Super Bowl held in Texas, Texans Cowboys.

Texas wins 30 to 15. All right, but thanks, thanks for doing this. All right, all right. that was Shea Serrano who we couldn't have had this podcast without getting some of his input. It was very important. But Kevin, let's hit a few more just quick notes you had on that game, thoughts you had on it before we get out of here. Outside of the brockoning and Jadivian Clowny doing whatever he is and JJ Watt ruining everyone's time, was there anything else that stuck out to you? Very few things, you know, I talk about watching the game unemotionally a lot.

Very few things actively bummed me out. The Oakland Raiders bummed me out because you think of the alternate path where even, you know, If Derek Carr is healthy, even Matt McGloin, I mean, I think they had a chance to score, I don't know, 18 to 20 points with Matt McGuyn. I'm not a healthy Matt McGuyn. I'm not totally sure. But, you know, you just look at what that team looked like with Derek Carr, the most fun team in the NFL probably, the ability to come from behind. I mean, think about, you know, when they were down, you know, two scores in a hypothetical world, I would love to see Derek Carr come from behind on that Texans team. I mean, it just, I know everything else would have changed, but it just,

Every time I saw the Raiders do something depressing, which, by the way, was every minute for 60 minutes, I was saying, why is this happening? There are just so many of those kind of flashpoints over the last two weeks. First of all, Donald Penn, being an undrafted free agent and now is like 13th season and missing his only playoff game. Yeah. Is that like, that fucking sucks. And then Rodney Hudson, who's their other best offensive player, riding in pain on the ground. And when I was there a couple weeks ago, I think you could just kind of tell that the air had been let out of the building a little bit. And why would you blame them?

And we've talked about it. You've said it. It may be the most devastating single injury in the history of the NFL for a team's playoff chances. Just when it came and with Oakland possibly moving all these different factors. It really is just a confluence of factors that when you thought about it a month ago seemed inconceivable. Yeah, and that's what I wrote today. You know, you look at the history of major quarterback injury. Most of them happened early in the year. Brady and 08, Peyton Manning missed all of 2011.

Marino had a famous one in 93. That was week six, I think. Johnny Nitis was early in the season. There's never been, you know, Andy Dalton is the closest thing to a team that looked like you could go to the Super Bowl all of a sudden getting a massive quarterback injury and then just totally nosed diving. Obviously teams have recovered from that, you know, Jeff Hostel were, you know, making a run and all that. But I cannot think of anything where the air came out of the room quite like this so late in the season is with Carr. Yeah, it was brutal. Let's talk about the Texans just a little bit. I really was so impressed with some of the things that they did. Obviously, Clowny first and foremost, he has turned into an absolute monster.

And the type of stuff he's doing, it's not just that hit against Michigan, where it's these otherworldly acts of athleticism and power. I mean, that pick he had, it wasn't just the ball was thrown to him. He read that screen. He backed up into it. He played it perfectly. He just feels like he's really settling in to being a guy that can dominate games in like 17 different ways. I actually think John Gruden had the best phrase for it.

He's a game ruiner. He can do so many different things. Matt can do that. Vaughn Miller can do that. I mean, it takes a special type of player to be able to interfere with every play. can basically do whatever you ask him to do. He's such a good athlete. I thought it was hilarious.

Do you see that shot of Clowny getting interviewed by the ESPN crew after the game? No, I don't think so. He looked like he made all Charles Woods and Doe for all of those guys with like children. That's how large he is. He's so big. It looked like a camera trick to make him look bigger, like a house of mirrors or something. He is so massive of a human being. And him plus Mercilus, the way Mercilus played on Saturday,

not only as a pass rusher, but just the weird shit they were doing with him, like putting him a middle linebacker and just letting him chase stuff down, he has had a super impressive season. And I feel like it speaks to the just intelligence of voters for the AP poll that he was second team all pro despite only having seven and a half sacks. Like watching him all year, he deserves something like that. And Saturday was proof. I mean, that guy is going to show up in a bunch of different ways for you.

I think the biggest game, just as far as attention and all that, I think JJ Watt had a big game. He really did. It really did play well. I will say, despite all of the bullshit surrounding him the last couple weeks, the idea of him merciless and clownie playing together is very exciting to me.

Like when they get to do that next season, that's going to be great. Whether or not they can bring guys like Bouye back because he's a free agent, obviously he's playing fantastic. So if they can manage that and keep this defense together, oh boy, they're going to be real good. Well, I'm also confused as to what's going to happen

of this Bill O'Brien thing because Jay Glazer reported two weeks ago he sees them maybe mutually parting ways. Now what? He's just going to come back and we're going to pretend that never happened? Because they beat Cotter Cook? I'm not sure that's the reason to make a decision. Like Bob McNair was in the locker room or something last night or Saturday night. He would say, oh, well, I was never going to fire him.

Well, that wasn't the thing. It was that maybe O'Brien wanted to leave. That's sort of implied in a mutual parting of ways. And so now we have an unhappy O'Brien or apparently unhappy O'Brien coming back for I don't know. I don't know about that. Yeah, I mean, that situation seems a little fra. But the players they have on that team, I like, you know,

I feel like they've done a good job of building that, especially on the defensive side of the ball. And the other guy who stood out to me on Sunday, Dwayne Brown is a forgotten man. Like, there was a period two or three years ago where he was the best left tackle in the league. And it feels like injuries have started to rob that from him. But he did really well against Khalil Mack.

I mean, there were plenty of plays where they gave him some help. help, some chips, whatever. But I saw, I mean, several occasions where he was on an island against the best defensive player in the league and just did not flinch. And that's fun. As a line nerd who really enjoyed him as the best guy at his position at one point, watching him kind of overcome all the shit he's had to deal with is pretty cool. Yeah.

No, I agree. I think this Texans team is going to get shillacked by the Patriots. I totally agree. I'm happy for a lot of those guys that they want to play off game. Yeah, they deserve it. And they played well enough. Despite it being Connor Cook, whatever, I think they deserve to win that game. I made the analogy of some of these games being like a play-in game in the end of the tournament where they get a win and they're happy and all that.

But it's just two teams that don't belong anywhere. That's sort of what this was. But a win in the playoffs is a win. Congratulations, everybody. Yeah, good job, Houston Texans. Ready go, guys. Brock Oswald, a playoff winner. And there's no better note on which to end this show than that.

That is all we have for this week. Danny and I will be back on Friday. hopefully with a couple of guests maybe we'll figure that out as the week goes on but as always we really appreciate you guys's time and thanks for joining us