The Ringer NFL Show - Ep. 70: Super Bowl Defenses, John Lynch's New Occupation, and Kyle Shanahan's Offensive Genius

Episode Date: January 30, 2017

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Kevin Clark discuss the falling prices of Super Bowl tickets (01:15), when the Falcons defense turned the corner (04:35), the Kyle Shanahan effect (22:30), the 49ers hiring John Lynch (26:55), and how this Patriots season will be remembered (32:55). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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To the ring around and fell show. My name's Robert Mays. I'm a writer at the ringer. Joining me on the other lines. Kevin Clark, Kevin, how are you? I just can't get over the Pro Bowl. What a Pro Bowl. I watched zero seconds of the Pro Bowl, and I'm very happy about it.

I have no clue what happened. It's partially because we're just strewn about the nation at this point. I'm recording from a very weird phone booth in our New York office, and you are at Football HQ, baby, Houston, Texas. How is it? I'm just on an incidental vacation to Houston this time. of year. I didn't know. Oh, yeah, that's good. I'm glad you're enjoying yourself. That makes me happy. I like when you get some relaxation side. In Texas. So, obviously, it's early in the week, but has

anything happened so far? Anything of note that you want to relay our way? No, I mean, you know, it's interesting. There's two things happening right now at the Super Bowl. Number one is I was down around downtown area, sort of walking around taking in the scenes yesterday and last night. I would say that the local crowd was a little more into it than maybe the past couple of Super Bowls. I didn't see a lot of excitement from the San Francisco community this time last year early in the week. They weren't milling about sort of the ban zone and stuff like that, as Houston was last night. Certainly New York didn't care everybody. But Houston was into it.

Now, on the other side, the national buzz is way down. I saw some stats this morning that Super Bowl ticket prices have dropped 60% since the Cowboys and Packers were eliminated. prices have basically been falling every day. I was just looking around at some of the metrics, fairly easy to come by. So I think this is going to be a Super Bowl where maybe Texas is really into it, but nationally fans want to keep spending thousands of dollars to come here.

And, you know, Falcons fans are passionate, but I just don't know, you know, if they have a huge band-based that remains to be seen. And so I'm interested, you know, it normally takes for a Super Bowl, to become insanely expensive or insanely popular or just fly off the handle during the weekend as far as excitement and buzz goes.

It usually takes one massive fan base that maybe hasn't won in a while. You know, Denver and Carolina, basically, you know, flooded the Bay Area come Saturday. So I'm intrigued to see whether or not Falcons fans sort of come together, see the ticket prices of dropping a little bit, and, you know, get over here.

And it's kind of what I wanted to talk about today, just how, where these teams sit in both the narratives of their franchises and the overall narrative of the league. And I feel like they're in fascinatingly disparate spots, both of them. The Patriots are just the establishment team more than any other that you can ever imagine. And the Falcons are just not. I was in Atlanta when they won that game. It was very cool. I think the fan base has gotten behind them, but you can just tell that this is kind of a new feeling and a new experience. And everyone associated with that team is in that boat. And the Patriots are the opposite of that. I mean, we were talking to Simmons.

he kind of shited us for not congratulating him. I win in the industry, his team on his team winning the title. And I was like, do you even care anymore? Do you even get excited about this anymore? And the answer is kind of no. Like, how could you, when you've done this so many times? If the Patriots don't win a Super Bowl, who cares? There's a list of, you know, when I got that text, I realized there's a list of things

I would congratulate people for before I get to texting Simmons for options. That's so true. I mean, that's so, so true. Him more than anybody else. but it is. I will like, I will congratulate you on checking into your hotel later in the week. And before I would text them and congratulations on the Patriots winning something.

To make a point and to make a good point, there's a worse chance I don't make it into my hotel than the Patriots lose that answer chance to give to the Steelers. I've screwed up easier things before. It's all up for grabs. The nation awaits. So I wanted to kind of, after, I wanted to touch base with you, but after that I wanted to kind of talk about each of these teams separately before we talk about them together. And I feel like kind of going back and saying, all right, how did we get here?

You know, what took us to this point with each of them? And with Atlanta, the first thing I wanted to ask you, when did you think or just believe that Atlanta could either play in or win a Super Bowl? Because I feel like that's a good starting point of how to dig into their year overall. That's an interesting question because they were so good early in the year. They went out to Seattle and played them tough, but I think we saw that they could hang with these great teams. I think a lot of people were questioned.

when the fall was going to happen because they started so well last year, then they lost to Jim Tom Sulla of all people, and we knew that they were sort of done. If I had to market, I would really say that the, and this is maybe a weird answer. You know, obviously they beat the Packers in week eight, but then the next week they went out and just on Thursday night.

Yep. I think you were in Los Angeles for that. I was. And we watched a little bit of it together. I think that the biggest mark of a team that can win playoff games, just going out and handling your business. I 100% agree. But, I mean, just like that's the type of game.

We should have win against the pack. I think I picked the bucks in that game. I just, it seemed like the type of, you know, if the collapse is going to dismantle that bucks team. That's what I said about them to a couple different people. I just love that we talk about how good of a slate they played of defenses and the fact that their offense was so good in spite of that. And I have a lot of respect for that.

But I also love that anytime they played a bad team, they just beat them up. They absolutely whipped the teams they should have, except maybe for that Philly game. And I think that's kind of the outwire, right? Like, doesn't every team have one game every season that's a weird blip that doesn't make sense? And when I'm looking at this schedule for Atlanta, that's really the only one. I mean, you could easily lose in week one to a team that's played you before. They lost the Tampa, it wasn't like a blowout or anything. That Philly game is the only one that you look at it and say, and that just totally doesn't compute.

So for me, there were kind of these little ebbs and flows. of what the season was, but through the entire thing, especially, let's start with Denver. They beat Denver in that week five game. They beat them pretty well. They laid hand of them. They did a great job. It's a seven point game, but Atlanta looked like the better team throughout. And when they did that, I kind of thought, okay, these guys are here.

And then they lose very close game to Seattle the next week. And even in losing to San Diego, I didn't think, oh, what, now the Falcons are falling off. There was never a moment after that Denver game where I thought they were completely out of the conversation. But I would say the one where I really said, okay, this is a team that's dangerous, is when they destroyed Arizona at home a week after they're by. Because Arizona, even though they didn't have the season we thought they could, was not a bad football team this year. And they have a very good defense. And Atlanta did to them what they had done to everyone. So when they did that is when I said, okay, they're going to be in the playoffs. Like this team is going to stick around

the rest of the year. When the Seahawks lost to the 49, or excuse me, when the Seahawks lost to Arizona in week 16, and it looked as if Atlanta would get the second seed and a weird Cowboys game would get them home field throughout the NFC, that's when I was like, okay, they really have a shot to do this. Yep, yep. You know, for me, I think the biggest hesitation on my end was just the fact that it seems so honest. I mean, if you were to say, even after the, the, the Bucks game on Thursday night, that was

week nine, if you were to say, this team really is going to end up with what, the seventh most points in NFL history. I don't think anybody would believe it. I think that we thought there was going to be an inevitable dip in the offense and then what happens when there's not a good defense. And that was my, I was pretty sure they were going to win the NFC South for most of the season, but I didn't know they were going to be Super Bowl contenders until they proved, and maybe it was that night, that they weren't going away and they weren't going to dip.

There were a couple things that happened. You look at what happened, how the offense did sustain. And I wrote a big thing about Kyle Shanahan today. I talked to a lot of guys that have played for him at every stop and kind of what makes him the coach that he is. And a lot of it made sense, but I found a lot of it interesting. We could talk about that a little later, but I think there's a reason the offense did play as well as it did all season.

The thing that really helped them is that after the buy, that defense started playing much, much better. You look at what they gave up after that buy week. They gave up 19 against Arizona, 29 against Kansas City that included some turnover's deep in their own end, that 29 probably isn't indicative of it. 14 against LA, 13 against 49ers, 16 against Carolina, 32 against the Saints, but whatever, 20 against the Seahawks, 21 against the Packers. So over the course of the second half of the season, including the playoffs, they just haven't given up many points.

So the offense sustaining with the defense getting better when it matters, that makes you a Super Bowl contender. I mean, that's as simple as it gets. Yep, especially this year. I mean, you know, we'll get to the Patriots in a second, but, you know, you look, I weighed all year. I think was 14th in past the rating, you know, the course the year. And they got torched by them, but they got better as the season went on. You know, and so I saw the steady improvement of the defense

and that sort of married itself with the steadiness of the offense. And I agree. It was a, it definitely won me over as a team and as a unit. Let's talk about the Patriots, because that quarterback rating stat is part of what made their season so interesting. There was never a point where I didn't think the Patriots, were the best team in the AFC, really. I mean, when I was looking at the real contenders

and the teams I thought were the most dangerous, it was always in the NFC. It was when Seattle had that moment. It was when Green Bay was starting to get on fire. It was when Dallas took over the year. I still thought that even with Oakland being fun, the Patriots probably always had that top spot. But even still, to this moment,

does it feel like the Patriots have beaten anybody? No, no. I mean, even the Steelers, So I thought there was going to be a little bit of a toad. I mean, the Steelers, apparently the Stewards were in total disarray. Big Ben wants to retire. Everybody apparently hates him. I'm shocked that more didn't come out about, you know, how much in disarray that team was.

And by the way, I'm now sort of reverse engineering the Steelers. I'm sort of shocked they ever beat the Chief, because I think the Chiefs are pretty good. But, yeah, no, I don't know. They played Brock Oswald and won a playoff game, and then a weird Stewards team without Levy on Bell for most of the game in the championship game. I don't know. I have no idea what to expect. The Patriots are the best team in the league. The Patriots should be favored.

I'm not trying to take away anything from the Patriots. Yeah, the definitely most balanced team by a wide market. Yes. But look at what happened with the Patriots this season. Okay, Brady's out for the first four games, which adds a really interesting wrinkle that, whatever, you know, that they play very well. Why are we shocked? But then you go forward and kind of the team that they were, this was the Patriots

by Concentrate season. Like just add water. You don't have Brady for the first four games. You go three and one. You moves Grog-half-up through the season. Your offense is just as good. The defense is not that great, but you somehow piece it together. You don't have any superstars over there.

You trade your best two players, and somehow that helps. Like, there's never been a more Belichickian Patriot season that I can remember. It's like a Tom Hanks movie that you don't think he'd be very good. And then just, you know, it's just classic Hanks. It's so true. Like, you're just like, well, that seems like maybe a thin premise for, a movie. I don't know. The whole the flight took two and a half minutes.

Why am I watching Sally? And then you watch Kelly. God damn. There was never, I never had those moments with the Patriots that I have with the Falcons because with the Patriots, you don't have to be convinced to believe. You know, you don't need those moments because it's there the entire time. Mine is something catastrophic

happening, which I guess you can label Gronk as that, but even still, they were so healthy outside of that. So the fact that they have all their players is enough to make them a contender. at every moment of life. Yeah. No, I mean, as long as they have Tom Brady for the stretch run, I know, look, we can sit here

all day and we can talk about, you know, what they did with Brissette and Garoppolo, but, I mean, Brady really is the key. I mean, there was a stat that was put up at Tony Con, the co-owner of the Jaguar, put this up on Instagram, and I thought it was amazing about the receiver distribution chart. Did you see this, Robert? No, I haven't seen it. I'll take a look at it for sure. That sounds great.

you should look at it's on Tony's Instagram, and he basically made the point that the distribution was the exact same for the one through five receivers. They were just different people. Yeah. So basically from 2015 to 2016, White LaFelle became Martellis Bennett, James White became Chris Hogan. Everybody switched around their roles, and that's Brady. That's the offense. That's the Patriot.

So, yeah, I mean, yes, Gronk is catastrophic. so much that really, you know, the understudies step up. It's a play. You know, it's Hamilton. I totally agree, and there's something I want to piggyback off there. But before we do, I want to hear from one of our sponsors. No team goes into the season without a game plan. If they did, Game Day highlights would be nothing more than a football Follies compilation.

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Buffalo Wild Wings, Wings, beer, sports. We do it for you because you're a football fan. The fact that you say that is so perfect because I totally agree. And this is a team that is built on exploiting matchups, getting the ball to everybody, making sure you use every resource at your disposal. And you know who else is like that? The Falcons. They're so, so similar. And that, to me, is what makes this game just this really, really interesting chess match and piecing together who these teams are and how they can exploit each other.

Because both of them do the same thing well. And watching which team can do it better and which team this or. week has a better way to throw that collection of pieces at the other one is really what's going to matter. But even though they're built in the same ways and kind of the same ethos as what's energizing them, the way we look at these two franchises couldn't be more different. Yeah, because we've just seen Brady and Belichick exist on, you know, nothing around them. We've seen them build something out of nothing so many times.

And look, it's unfair because Matt Ryan has been incredible in Holy Julio Jones out of the lineup. But I think that we're, you know, we look at Matt Ryan, the same way we look to Peyton Manning in 2003, which is everything has to be perfect for him to, you know, for him to thrive. And I think that's a bad stereotype. I think it's just something we look at and we sort of assign when we see a high

scoring offense. But this Falcon's offense is really, really resilient. And they've found ways to be really good, even with key injuries. And I'm really excited to see what they come up with. Again, we've talked about it. couple of times once the Julio was taken out of the game, but he will not be getting 150-type Julio performance

because Bill Belichick has two weeks to make sure that that doesn't happen. That's his bread and butter. All he cares about is Julio Jones, stopping Julio Jones. So I can assure you that's going to be happening, and then it comes down to what happens to Taylor Gabriel, what happens at all your problems, what happens with most

Danube, and that's really, I mean, that's the chess match here, and that's where I'm so excited to watch as a football nerd. I totally agree. I feel like those guys are going to get theirs. I think the Falcons are going to be able to move the ball and put up points. I want to talk about Matt Ryan for a second, though, because you paired it in Manning-O-3, but the difference is Manning-O-3 was 27.

Matt Ryan's 31. We've seen Matt Ryan for almost a decade. And I can't remember something like this. The Flacco thing was not this. This wasn't a season-long dominant performance from Joe Flacco. It was a few hot games where his defense also played decent, and he tossed the ball down the field six or seven times. Matt Ryan systematically has destroyed the league for 18 games now.

When is the last time anything like this even almost remotely happened, where a guy a decade into his career became the MVP of the league, and we have no idea what's going to happen after it. Richard Gannon? Yeah, I mean, Gannon is an extremely good comparison. A guy named John Brody. Do you know Johnny Brody? No.

Oh, well, I'll tell you about John Brody. Tell me how about him. 1970. The team went 10-3-1. He exploded. He had his best ever season, and they gave him the MVP. And he was, you know, he was a Niners quarterback. And that's the most similar thing where he had this sort of explosion, took, you know, took the MVP out of nowhere.

But normally we don't see that. You know, normally, if you look at the history of MVP, with the exception of the Brian Seip, Bernie Kozar sort of run, it's pretty much great. of the game winning the MVP. And so you don't really see a guy ascending to MVP level after age 30. It's really, really rare. And that's why I'm so impressed when Matt Ryan's been able to do. I think that, you know, one of the things, you know, we talked about Peyton Manning, and obviously that was just a small comparison.

No one really compares him to Peyton Manning. You know, I think that Manning and Brady came up in a different era. I think there's all Matt Ryan came into the league with. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Matthew Stafford did this one time. I wouldn't be surprised. Obviously, Joe Flacco had his run, but as you said, it wasn't as good as this. But I think there's just, there's enough B plus A minus quarterbacks that came in around Matt Ryan's entry into the league to the point that we don't think enough about Matt Ryan. And that's why I think we didn't see this coming because there's too many Matt Ryan if that makes sense.

Yeah, and it's also just the confluence of factors. And the John Brody thing is fascinating because John Brady was the third overall pick of the draft, just like Matt Ryan. and played for the same franchise, which is that that's good. That's a good one. And that's the thing with Matt Ryan is that even unlike Rich Gannon, Rich Gannon was on team number four when he did that in Oakland. And he's a guy that bounced around the league and just caught fire at the right moment. Matt Ryan was supposed to be the savior of that franchise. And the fact that he was a decade in and they were ready to give him the boot. And now he's done this and taking this franchise to places it never has been before. And I know they've been to a Super Bowl. It wasn't like this. They snuck in against a team they shouldn't have beaten. No one in that game with the Falcons playing the Packers

that was a Falcons fan didn't think they could win or didn't think they should win. I mean, the Falcons were a better team. This is the first time they've been in that spot and this is the first time Matt Ryan's been in this spot. So the question for me is, is this a one-year thing? And especially with Kyle Shanahan leaving, do we have to worry about him kind of regressing just enough

where we're disappointed? I'm Brody's daughter married. Who? It's all connected, man. It's all connected. This is unbelievable. We've gotten to the bottom of this. This is like the Da Vinci Code.

Oh, man. I also, so Matt Ryan's one of those kind of personalities, but there are others. I feel like there are, we talked about this a little bit in our talking football live segment, just that there isn't much at stake for a lot of the Patriots. You know, Belichick and Brady lose. They're still the best ever. But I feel like with some of the guys in this game, there is something at stake. Like Matt Patricia.

If Matt Patricia wins this game. If they shut down Atlanta, when do we start talking about Matt Patricia as one of those guys that deserves a head coaching job and is up there as a defensive mind? If Kyle Shanahan, I mean, go ahead. It's a little tough just because we know what a defensive mastermind Belichick is. I know. You know, I think one of the problems is a lot of times, you know, with Doug Peterson or whatever, it's like back on play calling. It's all the Doug show now. Everybody knows that Bella's stepping back from anything.

He's coaching the long snappers. sure but I feel like there's definitely some decision maker in the league that would say all right maybe it's time to give Matt Patricia his shot now even though all the job you're going to be filled by that time comes around you still have that kind of feeling about you even as you go into next season and you know maybe a job comes open we'll see what happens in indie stuff like that just the way that we talk about him I feel like may change for guys around the league so and also just Shanahan I think that the conversations I had with people last week even guys that were around him in Houston when he was 28.

They just said, I had never seen anybody approach offense like that. And when you look at it, I know that seems silly. And with hindsight, we're trying to anoint the guy that hasn't done a ton since until he got here. But look at it for real. His second year is the offensive coordinator in Houston. Matt Shaw threw for 4,700 yards and 29 touchdowns. He completed almost 70% of his passes under Kyle Shanahan. In 2012, Robert Griffin was the rookie of the year.

year over Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck in a Kyle Shanahan offense. Brian Hoyer was pretty damn good for the first six weeks of the 2014 Brown season until what I wrote about last week, Alex Matt got hurt and all went to shit. So it's all a matter of degree. If you're Matt Schaub, you can have a career year and go to the Pro Bowl. If you're Robert Griffin, you can be the rookie of the year. If you're Brian Hoyer, you can look like a pretty reasonable NFL quarterback. And if you're Matt Ryan, you can be the MVP of the league.

no matter who you are, Kyle Shanahan seems to elevate you as a quarterback. And I'm not sure what more you can say about an offensive coordinator. I mean, that would be the ultimate test, right? Made the Super Bowl before. I'm sure they're not because that would be my guess. My guess is that John Lynch is burning up the phone. This is a weird thing. It's kind of one of those anecdotal the way we watch football comments.

Colin Kaepernick's never moved in the way you do in a Kyle Shanahan offense. He's very mobile, like in a straight line way, and he's used a ton of play action. but a lot of that play action's been out of the shotgun. So I've never seen him do a lot of the stuff he would need to do in Kyle Shanahan's offense. The irony there is that the same thing could have been said about Matt Ryan because he had never done any of that stuff either. And he seems to be doing okay with it now.

He's the fastest quarterback in the league now. Matt Ryan? Do you see him? Yeah, he's just mobile. I put a clip in the Kyle Shannon thing I wrote today. I think he runs a 5-540 at this point, but he's scored it as a turn the past. He moves okay. And he had a throw to Sunoo that I've done.

putting the clip of it in. And it was an outside zone to the left and he came all the way back to the right and just ripped it on the run. And that's the type of stuff that I think unlocks you as a quarterback when a coach does two things. One, he puts you in positions to easily succeed. There are a lot of simple throws in the Atlanta offense for a quarterback. But I feel like Shanahan's also done a really good job of challenging Ryan in subtle ways,

asking him to do those things he's never done, putting him outside of his comfort zone. And when you do that, it inevitably is going to push people to do things. things they've never even thought about accomplishing. And you've seen that. Matt Ryan has done all of those things this year. And that's why he's the MVP. One thing I want to say very quickly, I wrote a story last week for The Ringer about just how football has really become basketball. What I mean by that is common than ever by it. Look at the numbers. The amount of five receiver versus five defensive back set up have

exploded even in the last 12 months. Look at John Lynch for that story. And John Lynch, talk for maybe 20 minutes. John Lynch brought the conversation back to how much he loves Kyle Shevon time. That's amazing. Like an uncomfortable amount of time. On Chanahan, again, we're talking about all four teams to run the conference championship. And now I can safely say it.

Everybody I talked to kind of had the same tone. It was just that, you know, when you're doing reporting and you don't necessarily have a ton of knowledge about how new the thing is that you think is new. So you want to confirm that it is? I always ask, like, well, is that different? You know, is every coach do that? Am I overrating it? And with every guy I talked to about Shannon, I was like, no. Like, no, people don't see it that way.

People don't do it that way. Andrew Hawkins told me he'd been a wide receiver for 20 years, and no one had ever taught him out to play a wide receiver like Kyle Shanahan. I mean, that's just the type of stuff. He just, he really is that good. And to see him become this is pretty fun. I mean, he plays a fun version of football. I'm glad he's going to get to be a head coach.

I mean, it's interesting, man. I don't know, what are we supposed to think about it? How am I supposed to judge it? I mean, you had a- I like it. I mean, you had a long conversation with him last week. That's better than anything I have to go on. Yeah, no.

So, I mean, I like it. I think he's really insightful. I think he thinks about the game in a different way. He almost reminds me a little bit of him. But just about five or six years ago, I did a brief stint on hockey, just because we needed folks. And mine has ended up talking to Steve Eisenman for a while. And Eisenman, and what Lynch and Eisenman have in common is that you can ask them a question,

and they will answer it. thinking about whatever you're asking for a long time. And it's not necessary. I ask questions typically that they're not necessarily, you know, how they're going to win this game, how, you know, are they going to be focused, right? It's usually sort of deeper sort of philosophical questions. And both Eisenman and Lynch are thinking about it. And thinking about it in a way you would have never got about Lynch.

He definitely thinks outside the box. He spends a ton of time thinking about football. And I understand I've talked to these ex-players. You've talked to them, Robert. they get to a point, especially in media, where if you're thinking about football, if you're watching the film, if you're meeting with these coaches on Friday, and you're realizing that you're not using it to compete, you compete. They want to compete.

And so at some point, when you're in your mid-40s with John Lynch is, you're saying, why am I not putting this to better use? I don't want to just play golf all day. And that's what I really admire about Lynch. And who knows if he's going to be great? I mean, a lot of GMs, a lot of it just comes down to organizational skills and a lot. I think it's as good a choice as any. You don't even know what he's responsible for.

That's what I'm saying. It's just that why is he a worse choice than the director of player personnel and so-and-so? John Elway is doing okay. I mean, Steve Kerr is doing just fine in Golden State. I feel like it's the way that you, it's the people you surround yourself with. And in a way, it's the people you've been around. John Lynch has been around some pretty decent football people in his life. He's played for some successful franchises.

I'm sure he's learned a thing or two. So I don't necessarily hate it. I just think that it's an outside-the-box thought, and sometimes that's a good thing. You know, I think Peter Kaye made this point that Lynch knows his limitation. And I think that's really an important thing. It's not just, oh, he knows football, whatever. He knows he's not a scout. He knows he hasn't traveled Texas trying to find, you know, so many of these GMs started as college scouts

and are all about, you know, hit placement and all that stuff. And that's extremely valuable. But also valuable is knowing you don't understand that. Lynch is going to become from that perspective. That means trust your regional guy says on a certain prospect. And I think that's the key as much as anything is empowering other people to help you make decisions. And I think at this point, it's about crushing your coaching staff as well. Kyle Shanahan has had a hand in some of those choices they've made in Atlanta,

to Alex and Taylor Gabriel's. He's definitely been a part of those just because the entire coaching staff in Atlanta is. And Chris Sims, who's really good friends with Kyle Shanan, and they went to Texas together, he told me, he said, think about Kyle's life. He's thought about how to construct the football team since he was seven years old. I mean, that's just been who he is. And I think that that's going to be a huge part. And to hear that John Lynch respects him as much as he does, that's good.

Because I think that Kyle Shannon should have a hand in who gets to pick the players in San Francisco, even if he isn't the de facto GM. You know, that's fascinating because Tom Dimitrov, I spoke to him a couple years ago. When the Harbaugh has made the Super Bowl against each other, I had Tom Dimitrov about the concept of nepotism in football. And obviously there's a ton of the guys wouldn't get, you know, wouldn't be often coordinators in their 20s without who their parents are. There's no getting around that.

But, you know, I sort of made the case and Dimitrov agreed with me. These guys, Dimitrov's father was a scout. And Dimitrov says he was looking at movement of players. obsessed with, you know, how legs moved and hip moves and footwork when he was four years old. And that's what you're talking about with Shanahan. Is you just, you just, well, football is a trade, not an art, I think. And I think the more you'll be, the more situations you understand, the more you'll be able to, you know, so much of scouting and identifying talent is, you know, being able to recall, oh, I remember this guy could do that.

And this guy can, you know, now that I see this guy, he looks like that. bigger your library is on that, the bigger is important. And so I really do think that in this situation, Kyle Shanahan is not a typical 30-something coach. He's somebody who got a very early head start. He's been the offensive coordinator of four different teams. I mean, it's not as if Kyle Shanahan just got there. He's not Sean McVeigh, okay? Kyle Shanahan's been around. I mean, this is somebody with, if we're talking about a reservoir of knowledge, he's certainly got one. So I don't, I'm not worried at all that he hasn't seen enough. I mean, if that's your concern, and then you're looking in the wrong spots

if you're worried about him getting hired in San Francisco. Sean McVeigh, by the way. All right, before we get out, we haven't talked about the Patriots enough. I want to ask you one thing about them before we leave. Yeah. If they win the Super Bowl, independent of what happens in this game,

how will you remember this Patriot season? Look, you know, he ever flipped through the old history books of the NFL and you see teams that just stand out and you say, how did this team win the Super Bowl? How did this quarterback win MVP? This will not be. one of those cases. A, it's obviously Belichick and Brady, but B, you know, these are the top

two teams in there, the number one scoring defense in the NFL. The vintage Brady season, his lowest interception percentage ever, zero point five, excuse me, second best. This team maybe will, in our mind, but I think that in the, you know, historical narrative, this will be considered sort of, you know, this will not be considered the worst team. I agree with that. And there are a couple things that I've thought about, especially in the last couple weeks, as I've really dug back through some more rewatching of games. Because during the season, it was just hard to be interested in the Patriots.

Just because they were the Patriots, they were going through this merciless march through the AFC again. Going back and watching some of those games this year, I was just absolutely stunned at how Brady played. Just the mastery he still has, the way he's throwing the ball, how he's moving the ball around to different people. it's just as stunning the way he's still playing the position at this age. And I didn't think we'd be here. I honestly never thought he'd be this good this late. Did I feel like he could play to 41 and 42? Sure.

But he'd be a diminished version of himself. And the fact that outside of the way he really pushes the ball downfield compared to how he did when he was younger, we don't see that much difference in Tom Brady. And that's just absolutely shocking. And on the other side, I do think this is one of Belichick's best jobs. That's why I said he should be coached the year. I know it's boring, but to go 14 and 2 without Brady for four games, trading your best player, not having Gronk for a huge chunk of the season.

Who's the best player on the Patriots defense? Malcolm Butler. Probably, and I'd say Devin McCordy's second outside of that. I mean, them in High Tower, and after that. To High Tower, yeah. I mean, from there, where does it go? I mean, who's four through 12? They're fine.

I mean, they're not bad players, but they're not stars. And he turned them into the number one scoring defense in the league. And if you watch them shut down the best offense that we've seen this season, one of the highest scoring offense in NFL history, would you be surprised? No, not at all. It's just, it's amazing. And it's kind of, I almost feel like I take it for granted. I'm more than willing to admit it just because of what it is by this point.

But then when you really dig into it as somebody who likes the game, the nuances of it are such that it's hard not to appreciate. because even though it feels the same, every year it's a little bit different to the point where you can gain a better appreciation of it. Album, what would it be? Oh, it's a really, really good question. I think it'd be load, honestly.

Just because you don't think about it having its moments because, I don't know, that's hard to say. Maybe, maybe, and justice for all, actually. I have no thoughts on this question. It's too tough because the Belichick-Bradier hasn't had as many, the Belichick Brady span hasn't had as many errors in pockets as a metallic ass. So that's tough.

There's no one good comparison. I just felt like that was maybe an apt analogy that was right up your alley. That's a good question, man. I wish I had a better answer for you. All right, bud. That's all we got. I will see you in Houston very soon. I'm very excited to get down there and be a part of the festivities.

Guys, thank you very much for listening, as always. Me, Danny, and Mike Lombardi will be back on Wednesday. We are very excited to welcome Mike to the team. I cannot wait to chat football with him and with Danny Kelly as we really dig into our Super Bowl preview later in the week. As always, we really appreciate guys listening and let's go. Here we go. Super Bowl week.