The Ringer NFL Show - Ep. 74: Super Bowl Nitty-Gritty With Mike Lombardi and Danny Kelly

Episode Date: February 8, 2017

The Ringer's Robert Mays calls on Mike Lombardi to break down all the nitty-gritty details of the Super Bowl (1:20) and how the offseason will treat New England and Atlanta (13:25). Then Danny Kelly joins the show to discuss his favorite plays (28:45) and Steve Sarkisian replacing Kyle Shanahan (39:45). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, my name is Chris Ryan. My name's Andy Greenwald. And we are the co-host of The Watch, a pop culture podcast on the Ringer podcast network. We are on Mondays and Thursdays. We mostly talk about TV, movies, music, pop culture, Jeremy Renner, house flipping, the papacy, Reese Weatherspoon dancing at wedding videos. We used to talk about Kanye West. He's in the, like, timeout corner right now.

Never ever talk about Christine Bransky. You can listen to The Watch on Mondays and Thursdays on SoundCloud, iTunes. Anywhere you get podcasts, subscribe now. And thanks for listening. It's a good hang. To The Ringer NFL show. My name is Robert Mays. I'm a writer at the ringer. Joining me on the other line, it's Michael Bardi. Mike, how are you? I'm great. Thank you. How are you, Robert?

I am doing very well. This is going to be our last show before we kind of go into hibernation a little bit for the off season. We're going to chat Super Bowl, me and you for a little bit, kind of look forward for New England and Atlanta. And then Danny Kelly is going to welcome us a little bit later. And that's all we're going to have. But I'm excited to do this. I definitely wanted to get your take on things now that we've, been able to step back a little bit, hopefully be able to rewatch the game, although the coach's film is not on game pass, which makes no sense to me whatsoever. But even watching the broadcast angle again, I picked up some stuff I didn't the first time. Yeah, it's, you know,

the video guys, it tick a movie. I think if you play that scenario, nine minutes to go in the down 28 to 9, I think 9. And going back and watching it, are there a couple plays that maybe you didn't think had as much importance in the moment as you do now? Well, I think when you look back, the number one thing, the lack of the face match when Jake Matthews was holding on Sunu, when Jake Matthews was holding. I mean, that would have been offsetting, and I think that Kyle would have regained their senses and tried to run. I think when you break down the tape, I think the real Brady a little bit every time they were sitting on the interception return for bridge. It just went again. Yeah, I thought said the same thing. I mean, I'm sitting next to Kevin Clark during the game,

and I said, I did not envision this. I thought the New England could blow them out. I didn't think they would, but I didn't see a scenario where Atlanta could, because I just thought the Patriots would be able to move the ball consistently. No matter how they chose to do it, I thought they would. And Atlanta's defensive game plan was both fantastic and extremely well executed early. I mean, the speed

with which they were playing was pretty remarkable. Right, but the problem was with Atlanta, they play two coverages. They play what we call cover six, which is a weak side three deep zone, and they play that differently than they play their man to man. So if you ran a cover one beer, for example, a good job of mixing it up. If you

play a lot of man to man in the game, and they're cover six and they're basically man-to-man defenses only their, the middle of the field is closed. You get tired on defense. It would be like LeBron James playing 48 playing defense. What happens, the receivers substitute out. So it's a hockey line at receivers. And sometimes the receivers know it's a running game. They take the playoff.

The corners and the defensive backs, they've got to get a lot out. I mean, 93 plays on the play sheet, not counting the penalties, I think that you, you obviously, because they didn't milk the clock, because they didn't utilize the, it's no longer the Patriots, They gave New England that one opening. Well, let's talk about that a minute. The point about the man coverage is fascinating because it also plays into a couple of different things. One, you're totally right. And a lot of man-beaten, man-coverage beating routes and plays that you have to defend

when teams know you're going to play a man-sort of coverage, there's a lot of crossers, and there's a lot of plays where you're going to have to traverse a lot of ground. So on top of having to actually stick with people man-to-man, which is tiring, you're also just moving a lot. You're covering a lot of space while doing that. So you saw that left and right. Two, I think that with that ability to kind of confuse Brady at the line and not allow him to make instantaneous decisions, you saw Atlanta using a lot of twists. They were just getting guys in and out of gaps moving a ton.

And that tires defensive linemen out. When Grady Jarrett's got to go from the backside A gap to the playside C gap, that's a long way for a 300 pound man to go. And they were doing that a lot. And it was working in a way because they had that extra second. because Brady wasn't making those split decisions, but you're right. Eventually, when you do that over and over and over again, you're going to get tired. Right. It happens when you do that stunning.

I think what you saw was Shaq Mason didn't play very, really soft and ten of it in the offensive line for the Patriots. Nate Solor might have had one of his worst games. I mean, Dwight Freeney looked like he was reincarnated again, and he was beaten with the spin movement. When you move like they did, when they sacked him on the play action pass, Mason wasn't set. And, you know, Courtney Upshaw was able to just overback.

So there was talcon defensive line played far to play. They just ran out of gas. They did. And the Mac of the Mason thing was interesting. I thought that they got him on the move a lot and that was good. He got beat on, I think, another Jarrett sack where he also ended up as the outside guy in a play action scheme. So they got him on the outside more than Cannon in terms of taking advantage. And that makes sense because in pass protection, Cannon was fantastic.

Vic Beasley was absolutely erased in this game. Even when he was one and he did nothing. It does affect you. because what happens is you've got to pass it off. And a guy like Shaq Mason who plays off. And then, you know, they couldn't really run the football. And those third and ones come back to haunt you when you don't convert in it. I think they were 99.

You need help to win the game. And Atlanta gave them the help they needed. Yeah. When I was watching that drive over again, the play calls weren't as much a problem for me. I think not running on second down when you're on the 23 is a problem. I get why they didn't. They were struggling in short yardage. in my, the thing that it hurts the most for if you're a Atlanta fan watching that game over again

is the amount of time left on the play clock every single time they snapped it down the stretch. Well, they didn't realize their opponent was the Patriot. They didn't realize their opponent was the Clock. They thought it was still the Patriots. And at some point, when you're up 18, when you're up 16 points and two two point conversions, you've got to do it. And you just didn't realize that that's why game situations are so important. And what the Patriots were so fascinating that this is how well the Patriots are prepared.

The Patriots during the war. You go on the game typically in a game where just you have one two-point player, maybe two. The Patriots had two days stating about their practices. Some of those plays they ran in the game didn't look. And yet when at the end of the game, when they ran it, when they ran it a little differently, it won the game for them. It's really interesting because I had a conversation with Brandon Lafell last week. And we were talking just about Brady and practice and kind of how in tune he is with the scheme.

He was telling me a story about how when they played Green Bay a couple years ago, remember that game in Green Bay? Yeah, sure. So he caught what was kind of a back shoulder. throw a touchdown near the pile on. And apparently they had worked on it all week during practice. And it just looked like shit. And they were, they, uh, I think McDaniels asked him to work on it after practice ended.

And Brady was like, nah, like, you know, we got it. And Lafell's like, are you sure? Like, I don't think we got it. And in the game, it worked. And that's just such a, I think a lot of teams with plays that don't work in practice, they'll toss them out. But the fact that New England just has such a unique faith in the way they choose to do things and how much they work on them, that says,

something about them. I don't think a lot of teams would run a two-point play that didn't work all week in the most pivotal spot in the entire season. I think they would probably do something different if that situation presented itself. Well, yeah, and I think the fact that they took time out of during their week to practice two-point play says a lot about Belichick's preparation and how he visualized the first quarter what the plan is. And once he can figure, they come down to a two-point play because, look, let's face it, you're sitting there and you know Atlanta can score. And if you know if you hold Atlanta to under 30, it's probably a really good defensive effort, and you know you can score.

And so essentially, it's going to come down to who's going to make the two-point play, who's going to make it up? Do you anticipate missing field goals or extra points? No, but I think that their preparation was pretty remarkable when it came to that. The other play I thought that we didn't talk about was the Shay McKellen. I didn't understand that call because when I watched it again on the tape, he was not aligned over the center and he was not on the line of scrimmage. He timed it perfectly.

Yeah, I don't know why that was any different than other ones. I've seen. I don't, it wasn't caught. The one I would look back on, remember that, so first of all, I wanted to ask you this, when they did the trick play to Edelman and they threw that, the wide receiver pass, Belichick knows in that scenario, if McDaniels calls that, that he's going to go for on Fort Down, correct? That's not a, okay.

That was a decision already made. I mean, he said, you know, here's the conversation probably went like this. Look, Belichick said, let's run the trick play because we got fourth down to go for it. Yeah, that's what I figured. on the field. Nothing happens on the field coach who's not listening to the calls. We're not interjecting, challenging the call saying, I don't run that. He's like

he's suggesting things. He's watching the game. He's a true head coach. He's not just worried about the defense. He's worried about the entire game. Yeah, and that's because when you make that choice, I mean, I think that's kind of obvious. And the other thing, another third down throw that I look back on. So Brady missed a throw to Edelman on that

drive where they scored kick the field goal eventually. But then he hits Bennett on an absolutely beautiful throw down when Bennett kind of bends it back to the corner as they go toward the goal line. That was one of his best throws of the day. And I think when he hits that, that's really when he locked in. That was the first 50-50 ball they came down with the whole day. It's so true.

I mean, when you really break it down, Cogan had a chance early in that drive when they got the ball back with down eight. He throws a strike to Hogan. Hogan just doesn't adjust to the ball down the field. Yeah. James White on the first drive of the game where the second drive of the game has a chance to come down with the ball, can't come down with it. you see Bennett had a chance to come down with Mrs. Edelman on a wheel round.

There was a lot of plays on that tape when you watch it again. Absolutely. I want to kind of shift gears a little bit, though, because before we get out of here, I kind of want to look forward a tiny bit, because I think that both of these teams face very unique off-season. I want to start with New England because I think that you're in a particularly good spot to talk about it.

They have $65 million in Caprum, which is third in the league, the two worst teams in the league that have retained none of their players. in Cleveland and San Francisco. So it's not surprising at all. New England is surprising. Part of the reason that this is a reality is that they have 20 free agents. And I think that the two guys that are at the top of that conversation,

three guys probably, are Bennett, Hightower, and Butler. And I just wanted to ask you quickly what you think is the most likely scenario for all three of those guys. Well, I think you've got to put Alan Branch in there too, because I think Alan Branch played really well. I think maybe a reduced rate because he's kind of bound. He was put some money into Butler. They're going to have to get his.

him signed. And let me just start off by saying this. Cap room's a reflection of how many guys, how good your team is. What makes this so unique about New England is they have 65 million. They have a good basis, but a lot of their key players are free agents. That's why they have so much cap room. Yep. This design. I mean, you know, glass, we signed Jamie Collins. Do we sign Malcolm Butler? Do we sign Jabal Shearred? Do we sign Allen? You know, it was all those decisions. And they just get putting back off. Now, they re-signed Cannon, which keeps their offensive line intact for another a year, which is a good thing.

And then I think before this offseason, I think, was a big deal. Because I think if he's able to... Because a lot of right tackles out there. The Ryan, they're not great right tackles, but there's a lot of them out there. And you see what some of the guys have gotten. They felt like they needed to sign Cannon. He's starting to play to the level that they've always expected that he could play. Remember, Cannon was a guy that should have been maybe he had a slip to the fifth

round. He's finally playing to that level. So I really, they're going to weigh the market. Like, somebody's going to give Logan Ryan more money than the England's going to give them. And I think that's how they're going to balance it. Did they get somebody else to the market? It's going to be a challenge what they do. And then they've got the Garabu. You add to the $65 million because do they trade them? Do they utilize his picks? I think New England is going to be in a situation where Belichick is going

to recraft the team. And it might not be as good of a 2018 than it will be in 16. I wrote today about kind of the two biggest questions I thought were pressing against them. One was Garapo, obviously. Two, just what they did with the money. And my kind of quick summation of it that just made the most sense to me. You know, you don't know locker room politics necessarily. I thought that if they were to maybe franchise Martellus Bennett, give themselves some flexibility and wait until Grank hits that $11 million next year and they make a decision on that.

If they re-sign high tower, which they've shown a willingness to do with linebackers who hold that kind of standing on the roster, they did it with Mayo. And then they signed Butler because he's restricted and it's probably going to depress his value a little bit. Those are the quick thoughts that I had and then Branch and Blunt, I just said we'll be back on cheaper deals and they would get anywhere else. I just assume both of those guys would be back.

Well, I thought that, you know, last year when we had Akeem Hicks out there, we thought we could get him for a decent deal. And it ended up being Chicago paid him and it came down to the, well, we were trying to sign a Keem Hicks back. And Chicago came down and just paid them more than what the value was. I mean, if you put a key in the branch

and they really could use a component, now you got to, there's some risk involved with signing that and giving them a lot of money. But they sign them to a two-year deal after we signed him in 14. I think he's a key signing. I think what you do with Hightower is going to be the most fascinating because Hightower is a very good player and especially when the games are big. You look at his Denver Conference Championship game two years ago. He was one of the best players on the field. You look at the Super Bowl when he set the edge on the outside and he rushed the passer, he was one of the best players on the field. I think the role for Hightower is at the end

of the line. He's a Sam and space and playing in a stack. And I think that that's where they value. The question comes is durability, is he's always going to miss certain amount of time of games and how much you're willing to pay for that. I think Butler will be one, and I think the other ones will be based on the market value. And the Hightower thing is interesting because, like I said, they resigned Mayo to kind of a market setting deal because of what he gave them overall, the same way Hightower does, but they kind of got bit with the Mayo contract. I mean, he wasn't on the field a lot. So you give him that huge amount of money and he's hurt all the time. Right. I mean, the Mayo deal ended up.

really being a bad deal for New England, and then he lost his effectiveness on passing downs, which then kept him off the field. Whereas Hightower can be ineffective at the end of the line. He's more of a Sambacker. He can play in the stack, but I think what you saw is the season went on, Banoy played better. I think that's the way it would go out of that Mayo category. That's a really good point.

And then with Graspo, is there any way they don't trade him? It seems like it would kind of be irresponsible not to, if you assume Brady's going to be around. Well, look, I mean, I think that you have to make it. based on the deal. And I think that, look, I think when time is on your side, you don't trade them. My sense of it would be is, look, unless somebody came in with a really good offer, why would we get rid of them?

Because we do have them for next year, and you're dealing with a guy who's 40 years old, and no one can predict the future on a 40-year-old quarterback. I know Brady's remarkable, and he scrambled for one of the longest games in the Super Bowl, and he's done an incredible job. But we've all seen these guys

that get to the end of the cliff, that there's no gradual descend. There's just a drop. And I think you have to protect yourself. Now, if the right deal comes along, you go ahead and make the right deal. But I don't get the sense that they're going to be out there saying like they were with Matt Castle. Somebody take them. Will somebody take them, please? Do you want them? Do you want them? Do you want them?

I think this is more of going to be a reflection of, is this the right deal? What's the value? And then you never do, people don't do this. They say, well, you can trade them for this. When you trade them for a draft pick, you have to put a name of a player or a potential player that you're going to get for them. Because the draft picks turn into players. So if you trade Garapolo for the 12-picks, over all in the draft, then you have to look and see,

okay, this is the type of player we would be getting. We traded them for the top of the second round. This is the type of player we would be getting when we do it for that. And I think that's how you have to value his trade because he is, and people say, well, no, I like Garoppolo when I was in Cleveland. I think Garoppolo, and when I went to New England, Garapolo became a guy that we got interested in in New England. Garopolo will be a very good starting quarterback in the National Football League

that can lead a team to a playoff game. There's no doubt in my mind about that. If I was a GM in the league, I would trade for Gropolo. The 12th pick overall in this draft would be well worth trading for Gropolo because you're not going to – the name you're putting in at 12, Garoppolo is going to be better than him. You take one of those other quarterbacks. Now, I think Deshaun Watson's a fabulous player.

His accuracy bothers me. But you put him in, or Gropolo or the start of one season, Garoplo, you put enough tape together on Gropolo. It's impressive. I'll give you one name. Mike Lennon is going to get huge interest from a lot of teams in this free agent market because Mike Lennon has some tape of him playing well in a preseason. And some teams are going to think Mike Lennon can lead him to there.

And Garoppolo is better than Glennon. And that's the thing about Garoppos is that you've seen the tape, first of all. He's only 25. And what is interesting to me about him is that the contract in a way opens up even more of a market for him. Because if you're a team like Chicago or if you're a team like Cleveland, you can afford to sign him because you have the room to do it. It's not prohibitive.

You can sign him to an extension if you want to. But if you're a team like Houston or you're a team that's a little bit more strapped, you do have the option to wait because he's only making that $1.1 million this year. So that contract is almost the most valuable part of it all because he can be whatever you want him to be as a piece, as a financial piece. And with the way he's played and with the dirt of quarterbacks around, I think that opens up 10 or 12 teams to say, okay, maybe he is our guy. Yeah, I mean, I have basically 11 teams that could use a quarterback.

And, you know, I have Kansas City and Arizona. They have started quarterbacks. Denver has a couple guys. But, I mean, when you boil the roster down, but then you have the group of seven that really need quarterbacks. Now, Jackson and Los Angeles won't admit they need quarterbacks, but they do. Fairly substantial market.

That's 11 teams that you just lump in there. And that's not counting some other. teams, and that's not counting what Washington does with Kirk Cousins, and the effect of all that has come forward. So it's not great, the demand is. And I think that's what makes Garapolo so attractive. And the fact that he plays well, and he's a great kid, adds into it. This isn't a kid who's going to buck that. If he was in San Francisco with Kyle Shanahan's offense, it would be dynamic. I love it. Trust me, I'm wanting something like that. If he doesn't come to Chicago, I wouldn't mind him out of San Francisco. Hey, and he's, there's no doubt he's a good kid. He's from the

Mid-Suburban League, man. That's where he plays high school. Well, we're the best kids. All right, let's do Atlanta very quickly. There's not as much to talk about it, I don't think, because for me, the number one factor with them is Shanahan. I just don't think you can say, oh, the personnel is coming back, the offense is going to be really good again. Do I think the offense can be good with Sharkeeson because he has been a play caller before

he runs a West Coast system that has some of the same elements? Yes, two things, though. One, I think Shanahan is special. You and I have talked about this. I think he's special. I really do. And two, continuity with an offensive coordinator, play caller and quarterback really matters.

It just switching dudes in and out every two years. Why do you think Pittsburgh is so good? Why do you think even though I don't like McCarthy, Rogers has been able to do what he's been able to do? Same with McDaniels and Brady. It really helps to hear that same voice in your ear over and over again. And bringing in a new one, no matter how much continuity you have,

no matter how much faith you have in him, there's going to inevitably be a drop off. Yeah, I think what Kyle has always done historically in his career, and him playing with bad offensive lines and still being able to move the football. And we talked about this last week on the pro football focus as Atlanta's offensive line is the sixth best of football in a game to a team that really wasn't always the greatest housebrough. Right.

So I think the challenge is going to be for Steve Sarkozy and is how does he manage this offensive line, the way that Jake Matthews, even though he's a first round pick, hasn't played to that level. Ryan Schrader's the free agent at right tackle. You know, you're going to need a right, they don't have depth in the offensive line. Alex Mac is a great player. The two guards weren't. And I think that even though you say we're running the West Coast offense, and that can help.

I think Kyle's ability to hide and mask the offensive line was an untold story all season for the Atlanta Falcons success on offense. And I'm not sure Steve can do that. I think Steve's in a challenging role. I mean, he's day one of his game plans being as creative drop off. Now, there will be a slight drop off because that offensive line will keep getting exposed unless they fix it. And they signed Trader. They gave him a kind of a new deal.

so he's going to be there. So they have him and Mac locked up for a little bit. And then Matthews is coming to the end of his rookie deal. And those guards aren't exactly pieces you'd want to keep anyway. I mean, when you're looking at areas, they could improve. Both of those spots, you could get somebody that would be an upgrade there. I mean, Chris Chester's not getting any younger. And everybody says that, Robert, everybody says that it's hard to find guards.

It's hard to find, it's hard to find really good guards. You look at some of these teams guards and you say you can't, you know, and the way Kyle and that zone, outside zone scheme works, level. not the first level. Yeah. And when you have to find light the way he plays, that's why Lovitri is light in the way he plays, because it's always a guy to find guards.

And I think that it's going to be a challenge this offseason for them to do that. And then they need more depth on defense. I mean, look, this defense is really needed. And they just got to keep improving their defense, especially their defensive front. And I think they're going to need more defensive linemen. The nice part is that they get two back. And the guys that they're going to back from injury

that are essentially just found money compared to the defense we saw on Sunday are true file, is the biggest piece, obviously. And then Derek Shelby, who they signed this offseason and Adrian Claiborne, which those guys aren't stars by any stretch. They're not paid like it. But they would have been nice as part of that defensive rotation

in this game. Those are the types of players they missed on some way. Claybourne would have been more effective for them in there. I think there's no doubt. He would have given Grady Jarrett some rest. He would have given Babineau some rest. I mean, I think there's no come on as Higman. Higman played better in that game. And if he keeps playing, he's always

been a little bit of an underachiever, but the level of play that he played in that game was, it'll be really helpful. Are you surprised that they got rid of the defensive coordinator? Or does that just seem like not that big of a deal considering it's Quinn's defense? No, because if you noticed, Quinn started calling the plays midway through the season. I mean, this was going to happen whether they won the Super Bowl and not with their defense. And Quinn took over the defensive play calling. He took over the defense midseason.

And I think that this move, and I think he definitely, if you're running the Seattle scheme, that's how you play cover six and how you play man to man and how they look the same, but how they play differently and how you pass the Smith who never really been in the Dan Quinn to the players. So I think this was a move that was going to have. All right, Mike, that's all the time we got. This has been really fun. I can't wait to keep doing this. Let's take a break, get some rest, and I'll talk to you soon. Thanks, Robert. Talk to you soon. Bye-bye. See you. And we're now welcome by Danny Kelly. Hey, buddy. Hey, how's it going, man? I'm good, man. I wanted to chat with you about this game before we went away for a while because you and I haven't talked about it. I know

none of your feelings. I know, man. And it's kind of funny just because, like, it was such a roller coaster of emotions on Sunday. And, you know, obviously, I'm guessing you guys, you and Kevin, who are at the game, probably were already kind of starting in on your articles. You know, third quarter when it was 25 to 3 or, or I should say 28 to 3. And then pretty much everything got scrapped as the fourth quarter got going.

And so it was just, man, what a freaking crazy game. I, you know, I was pretty speechless when it ended. and we're obviously paid to kind of react to stuff like this, but I just like had, I didn't know how to react it. It was just like the craziest game I've ever seen. Yeah, and there was an element of that,

you know, as it was going, it was like, oh, well, you know, I'll write about the Falcons and kind of how they were built. And it's interesting to me.

They all kind of, they all contributed in some way. In fact, like Dwight Freeney's making things happen. And, you know, that combined with Gabriel and the actual pillars. And I didn't start writing it because I usually don't because I like to actually watch the game.

Because if something like that happens, I want. to know. And then as it was ending, I was like, well, what am I going to do now? Kevin was already going to write about Brady. So I'm sending there scrambling. I guess I'll just go down and see how fucking depressing it is down there. That always has interested me more than the flip side of it. When the Seahawks came back to Beat Green Bay a couple years ago, I didn't think, I wasn't going to write about the Seahawks because that wasn't interesting to me. The idea of blowing a 25, 7 million people were going to write about how Great Brady was.

after that game. In my mind, it was much more interesting to see what it was like to blow a 25-point lead. And that's what I tried to go down and do. And I don't know. I mean, it's hard to do it justice in that moment, especially when you're pivoting to it in that exact instance. But that was my thought process. Yeah. It was, it's kind of funny because I'm in Seattle, you know, Seahawks fan.

And this game was definitely giving me some PTSD of just kind of like the ending of the Super Bowl 49 when obviously the Patriots had them miraculous interception, the goal line and won the game, and everyone thought the Seahks were going to win, blah, blah, blah. And it's funny because in a way, it's like now the Falcons fans kind of like take on Seacx fans like burden of being like the worst Super Bowl loss ever. It's, I mean, I just feel so bad for Falcons fans right now because I've kind of like, you know, lived that, that just crushing defeat, you know, as a fan. And so I don't know.

It was exciting on one hand. And like just for as a football fan, it was like, holy crap. Like this is unprecedented or whatever. And but at the same time, I was like, man, it's going to suck to be a Falcons fan this summer. Because just, I mean, the Seahawks are still talking about their loss. Like they had several blowups this year where they're still talking about a game from two years ago, you know. So. We'll chat about that.

I want to talk about the Falcons and that kind of idea a little bit later. Because I do feel like that's important to address as we think about their office. season. Lombardi and I kind of chatted more about the nuts and bolts of it all personnel-wise, but that matters. First of all, I want to get into the game a little bit just from your perspective. I, we didn't get to watch the end zone tape because it's not up there. So I just watched the broadcast again, I assume you did as well. Were there a couple of things that stuck out to you watching it again that you didn't pick up on the first time?

I don't think I, the first game, I mean, I know they talked about it a little bit, but I didn't realize quite as quite so much how much man. Atlanta was running early on. Yeah. And it was kind of like I saw an interview with Bill Belichick afterwards. That was really great where they were talking to, you know, the broadcast team. And it was, he was basically saying, you know, early on they declared that they were going to do cover one, you know, man coverage. And that was the game.

That was what it was going to be. So I was really watching for that and kind of like what the Patriots did to sort of beat that. They were doing a lot of sort of the man beater stuff, you know, trips, you know, formations, moving guys. around um stacking crossers exactly yeah i can get guys caught up in the traffic you know the defenders caught up in the traffic as you kind of go across the field or whatever um you know they had a couple plays where in the second half they they did that like they they had trips on one side and then they just had malcolm mitchell line up on the outside and they just ran comebacks to him a couple of times yep the way they were going they were going at them because without that help you know that the corner's

got to play off a little bit and you're going to have that one step where you can if you time it well you're going to get it. Exactly. And I was watching the pick six play. I don't know if you got you and, you and, uh, we talked about a little bit. Yeah. Okay, because I was thinking that one was an interesting play. Um, just based on the fact that. They planned that. I was, uh, Ricardo Allen was talking about a little bit afterward. And they, they were trying to do this thing where they were trapping Edelman where they were going to do that at one at least some point. They were going to come off him at one point and do that. They didn't know when it was going to happen. But that was something they were planning on over the course of the half. They had talked.

about it all week where they were going to trap him a little bit when they would go to stuff like that against man. So that was just the choice that Robert offered me. Yeah, it was interesting. I mean, like, there would have been a lot of really cool conversations to be had about the Falcon's defensive game plan if the game had gone a certain different way. I know. I know.

And it's crazy because as I was watching the game over, I mean, it was just, there were so many cool like X's and O's things that we could have talked about with Shanahan. Obviously, now the narrative is, is what happened in the second half and kind of how things fell apart, but... Which, I keep, let's keep talking about that. That's really fun. Like, oh yeah, this guy's a bum now. Like, just fuck this guy.

The 49ers are screwed. There's no way they want him anymore. Yeah, and I definitely don't feel that way. I mean, the, what he, what happened in the second half doesn't, doesn't over, you know, doesn't trump anything that happened. 19 other games. Right. The other, the other play that I just made a note of for the Falcons that I thought was really cool

was the top. the touchdown to pass at Kevin Coleman where he lined up basically they were on like the six or seven yard line I can't remember and they lined him up on the left side in shotgun right next to Matt Ryan and they had trips on the right

trips formation three guys three receivers on the right those three receivers basically all ran kind of like forward routes I don't know exactly what their routes were they were all clearing out pretty much I mean they essentially just flooded the left side of the field from the right exactly and and so what that did was create a whole bunch of traffic for Ninkovich and Coleman came out from from started on the left

basically just ran a route towards a sign line to the right and Ninkovic just you know couldn't get through the traffic he had no chance I mean even if there wasn't any traffic you probably would have had no chance honestly probably yeah because Coleman is just so fast but I really thought that play was great and I mean there I love the Freeman touchdown it was kind of a similar scenario where they are on the six or seven yard line they motion Julio down tight

and then they Julio sprints across and it looks like a play action pass that they're going to come back with and Ryan sold it on the fake so he comes out with it and that's the type of stuff they love to do. They love sending I guess loved I mean I guess it's past tense now.

Damn it. They really enjoyed sending all the action one way and coming back with it. Usually it was with a play action pass but this time they use the run as the as the counteraction which is like Jesus Christ, man. Like, that is awesome.

And the other thing, the last bit of Falcons offense nerdery, because it's dead now, so we have to milk this as much as we can. When they were using Coleman and, I said this before the game, I thought they were going to use Coleman and Freeman together more in interesting ways. And can you remember the last time you saw them wind up and shotgun on either side of each other? No, that was awesome. They never do that. And they use it three or four times and it was different every single time.

which is just not surprising, but was very interesting. And it worked. Oh, absolutely. There was, I can't remember what the play was, but they basically, I mean, they would have Coleman acting as a de facto fullback at a few different cases. Yeah.

And I mean, I just think, yeah, we talked about it before the game. I think it's such a cool wrinkle to see them both on the field at the same time. I'd curious to see how many snaps they did do that because it was quite a few. It was probably more than 10. It was right around there, I would say. They used that two back shot. shotgun formation three times, I want to say. Okay.

Okay, cool. But then they had Coleman line up as a receiver a bunch. So it might have gotten up toward 10. Yeah. Well, it might have been less than 10 because they didn't play that many plays. That's what I'm going to say. Now that I'm thinking about is like they played,

I don't even, they had like 43 total plays all game, which is just crazy. I mean, did you guys talk about the disparity of plays? We didn't really on that. Kevin and I did. Mike and I,

we kind of just chat about why they got so tired. Just because they're, not only they're on the field a lot, but playing man coverage, he was a good comparison. It's essentially like full court pressing in basketball the entire game. Right, totally. And they just ran out of gas. Yeah. The Patriots, and that was another thing that I kind of thought about as I was rewatching the game.

It was like in the first quarter, in the first quarter, first quarter, the second quarter, they were running. The Patriots did a lot of those like sort of, you know, where Brady would sort of try and lofted up over man coverage on like a, on either a wheel route or, a seam route up the, you know, up the numbers. And on, I think, two or at least three occasions, the Falcons kind of very, very late, got their hand up in the passing lane and knocked the ball out as the ball was arriving. And, you know, that's just kind of, that's Brady trying to pick on man coverage. You throw to the guy, if you can see the defender's numbers and his name, you know, that's a good throw for him. And early in the game, the Falcons were making plays on those. late in the game, I remember

there was a pass down the seam to Martell's Bennett that set them up inside the 10-yard line. And it was... We talked about that throw. Yeah, man. And so, like, there were just... Plays that weren't working in the first half

definitely worked in the second half, you know what I mean? And it was just because I think they just ran out of gas and they started getting tired and they didn't really change up a whole lot of stuff. I mean, they played a lot of zone in the red zone. And New England and kind of went to their zone beating stuff in the red zone, I think. And they were playing a little bit more off with their coverage and everything like that.

And so things changed in the red zone. But it was a lot of man-man coverage beaters from 20 to 20. So those are some of the things I noticed rewatching the game. Yeah, I totally agree. All right, let's chat about the demise of Kyle Shanahan's time in Atlanta, mostly in so we could talk about Steve Kurt, Sarkesian, who you have at least some knowledge of. More dollars than I do because he was the head coach in Washington for a while.

You live in Seattle. I don't, schematically, what are your thoughts? How much do you know about his offense and what do you think? How do you think it's going to fit with this group of players? Well, I'm not, I don't know. I mean, obviously with our job, we're very focused on the NFL and so like that. So, like, I don't know his offense intimately or anything like that. I know that he runs a West Coast offense style.

You know, when he was with Woffice, He did a good job of sort of building offenses that catered to his quarterback's strengths. Like he made Keith Price look pretty damn good for a couple of years there in Washington. And so Jake Locker was the eighth overall pick in the draft. Exactly. I mean, that's, you know, he did a good job of catering and sort of custom tailoring the offense to what the strengths of his quarterback was. So I think in that sense, there's definitely some optimism. But, I mean, I don't know.

I don't remember there wasn't a time. of talk, at least in Seattle, that I remember where it was like he was this offensive genius necessarily. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I think he was a good, competent offensive coach. But, I mean, there was, you know, there was all these sort of the narrative that he, he didn't do quite enough to make them, you know, like a top 10 team or even a top 25 team when the time he was here. I think they went to, they went to a couple of bowl games when he was here and everything like that and kind of put Washington back on the map a little bit. It was still, I mean, he wasn't like, you know, changing the world over here.

And so, you know, it was a thing, though, that's a different conversation with college coaches. And it's why when I asked about Sarkesian's offense, people are recruiting. Well, it's like, you know, he's a drunk and he didn't would do a lot. It's like, well, I don't give a fuck about either of those things. I care about what the offense looks like because he doesn't have to get the players now. He's literally the offensive coach. He's going to call the plays. I am curious how good he is at the calling of the plays.

It's all I want to know about. And they just throw me a bone here, people. So, I mean, and that's what I'm interested. I mean, it is, and one of the things I wrote about today that I thought was interesting, and it gives a little bit of a different spin because say they bring on the floor, who is the quarterback's coach, and they say, all right, you be the coordinator now because we want to keep this offense. And you see that sometimes.

When a coordinator get hired away, they just promote from within, with, they promote from within in order to maintain the offense. Right. That works in some ways. it also doesn't work in other ways because play calling as we've kind of fine with Kyle Shanahan is an art unto itself and if you've never done it before it's not a guarantee that you'll be able to do it just because you know the offense right with Scarce with sarkesian you have a guy who knows how to play he's a play caller he knows how to do that

now it's just a matter of whether or not the offense can fit with the personnel and that is going to take time inevitably when you change coordinators there is going to be a drop-off just because when you hear a different person's voice, it matters. And so if we're looking at this offense being the same this year, next year as it was this year, this ain't going to happen. I mean, it goes to, I mean, the clip that we have referenced several times you wrote about in your article where Matt Ryan is talking to Shanahan, he's like, man, I can't wait until I know this offense inside and out because we're going to kill people with it.

And I mean, Sarkeesian can come in and run similar language and run a, and run a very similar like style of offense, but it's going to be his offense because he's not going to just all of a sudden adopt, you know, the quote, Shanahan offense. He's going to be running some of the same plays and everything, but it's just going to be different. And there's so many intricacies in any offense just based on option routes. You know, the language necessarily it might change a little bit, you know, just how the line blocks, how receivers run, how they block, you know, everything. It's just, there's so many things to learn that.

I agree. It's like you can't expect it. I mean, no one's going to expect it to be as good as it was this year. And the thing is, if Shanahan had come back, you probably wouldn't expect it to be as good. Because when you have offenses like this, you need a little bit of luck to have a team that averages 6.9 yards per play, 9.3 yards per attempt.

That happens because you get some breaks. And one of those breaks is all five of their line have been played 16 games this year. All five. Like, you need that. kind of stuff. That doesn't happen two years in row for the most part. So it was unlikely that they were going to have as cushy on an environment for Ryan to play in next year anyway. Taylor Gabriel's restricted free agent, shit like that. And then now you add a completely new wrinkle to it. So the question for Atlanta is, can the defense with the young

players that have developed over the second half this season with Claiborne, Truffin, and guys like Derek Shelby coming back and however you draft, will their improvement be enough for this team to say on the same level it was a year ago. I don't buy the Super Bowl hangover, really. I think that for the most part, teams get bad for certain reasons. It's not because they lost in the Super Bowl. The Seahawks were fine. Losing in the Super Bowl did not kill the Seahawks.

They brought back all their players and they were fine. So I think that's one of the elements is that you lose your coordinator, that's one wrinkle. Two, who's going, who's leaving? The Panthers started like six new corners last year. They brought, but their entire offensive. line, who was healthy the year before, got hurt. That stuff is the reason you lose.

They played the toughest schedule in the league. It's not because they lost in the Super Bowl. So if is Atlanta, when you have just these absent flows of your units, if we already concede Atlanta's office is going to be worse, the question is, do they go from first to 14th, or do they go from first to sixth, and does their defense go from 27th to 17th? Because if you do that, then you can win 11 games again. Oh yeah, absolutely. And I mean, yeah, it's like, I don't know.

It's, I'm with you on the Super Bowl hangover thing. I think there's a slight psychological thing to overcome and everything and whatever. But like most of it is like very variables. Like you're getting your players are leaving because they're Super Bowl champions now. Or they're they played in the Super Bowl or they got team C more though. Yes. Exactly. And I mean, it's just it's a nature of the beast.

There's just, I mean, there's so much parity in the first place. Like, even, I mean, you see so much disparity in how teams are year to year in the first place. And when you have to overcome losing people in free agency and all that, you know, you're furthered back in the draft order. So you're not getting his prime of draft choices. All that, like, adds up. So whatever. But, I mean, yeah, with the, with the Falcons, so now they're losing both of their coordinators, actually. I mean, because Mike Smith was let go today.

Richard Smith. Shit, sorry. It doesn't matter. Mike Smith used to be their head coach. He's reasonable that that would happen. The most general name ever, Mike Smith. And Dick Smith isn't much better. My bad.

Well, yeah, so maybe that actually is kind of indicative, though, because I don't think he was actually running the defense at this point. He wasn't. Lombardi said the last half of season Quinn was calling the place. That's Quinn's defense. Like, I don't, I'm not too worried about that. This is like whoever the offensive coordinator is, I'm trying to think of one that

in, like, in New Orleans. Like, who's the office coordinator in New Orleans? The answer is, who cares? I genuinely don't know. Exactly. So, yeah, anyways. But, I mean, so they have to overcome stuff like that. But I do think, I mean, like, if you look at how well their defense player

was like half a year, I think there's a lot of reason to believe that they're going to be a lot better next year. I mean, your Dion Jones MVP pick was looking pretty good through like first two quarters. I've become really good at this. I don't know why. It's the one talent I have. I can pick the super long shot that I feel like will affect the game in some way.

And he will for two and a half quarters and then it won't matter. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know. I think that their defense is set up to improve quite a bit. I totally agree. There's a lot of talent there. So, I mean, for me, it's, you know, obviously you have to overcome sort of this devastating loss.

But I think that there's a lot of reason to be positive still in Atlanta. I mean, I still think their offense is going to be. good. I agree. I think it's going to be good. It's just will their defense be improved enough to make up for the gap in being a world changing offense to a very good offense? That's the thing. Those are the kind of small shifts that do

end up mattering. I think the offensive personnel stay most of the same. You know, those guys are all locked up for the most part. I think they can give themselves some wiggle room by retooling Ryan's contract. He's making 23.8 this year, which is a shitload of money. So if they think they're going to keep them around anyway, it may make

sense to give yourself a little bit of cap relief by extending him. So if you do that, then maybe you try to go out and get a defensive piece. You know, I don't, guy like Melvin Ingram, somebody that will be expensive but could really add an element to your team as a pass rusher. I think that those are the spots they need. And we'll see. I'm excited for this team moving forward. I know that losing Shanahan is a big deal.

But I think lost in how good of a coach Shanahan is, is how brilliant Dan Quinn was over the second half of the season. That game plan that they trotted out there against the wing one was fucking great. I mean, yeah. And it was working really, really well. I mean, we can get into how it all fell apart. And I think that some of it just comes down to the offense, not executing, you know, what they should have executed. But because the defense was just on the field for way too many plays.

Like, you can't expect any defense to play well when they're 99 plays. Like, that is absurd. Totally. And I talked to Lombardi about this. The running the ball choices probably could have been different. But there was only probably one play where I thought, ah, they should have run it there instead of thrown it. The issue to me more so was they're snapping the ball with 15 seconds off the play.

And they did that a lot. And that's just the type of thing where when you have a lot of conference in your offense and you just get rolling, it's like, oh, we're just going to play. And I understand that. And I don't begrudge a team for that. To me, being conservative when you shouldn't is still much greater of a sin. But it still is just tough to watch over again.

It's like, man, I just, you snap the ball 10 seconds later on two of these plays. This may go completely different. For me, it's just situational football, like 101. Like, I mean, you have, okay, here's what I, like, because I was trying to frame my sort of opinion on this game and, like, whose fault it was and all that. I think that you're right. Like, there's like 16 or 20 plays that go differently in this game and it's, it's a different, like, the Falcons win. Like, the Patriots needed, like, a succession of, like, literally almost 20 plays to get this, to get the win. And so, you know, there's not one thing.

But when you have a 25 point lead with, what is it, like a couple minutes left in the third quarter, there's a reason the win probability algorithm or whatever says you have a 99.7% chance of winning. It's because most of the time, teams are not going to have enough possessions to get to overcome that, you know, the grade of a lead. It's just not enough time. And the way that the way that the Falcons were sort of just, it almost felt like they were like, in hurry up, you know? To me, that was like the biggest deal. It's like there was a few plays that they should have run the ball, but they weren't using the clock.

And New England ended the game. They had a 25 point. They came back from 25 points in the third quarter. And they had two timeouts left when the game was, when regulation ended. I saw you point that out. It is absurd. Like, you didn't make them use their timeouts.

Like, to me, that's the biggest sin is like, it was so bad of, of, of, of, of, of, of just game management that they didn't use those they only use one timeout in the whole second half 25 point lead

I know I know there's so many things like that the Freeman or excuse me the High Tower strip sack right so Dante High Tower said after the game that they had run that a couple different times

that exact kind of protection scheme and when they did those other times Freeman just blocked him and on that play he just didn't he just, he was right there and he chose not to hit him because he was releasing whatever. And, and Shannon said after, that was his guy. And I'm sitting here watching a gift of it right now. The Barlow just tweeted, they have a guy wide open down the middle of the field.

It's a fucking touchdown. Like, if he blocks him, that is the, it is a touchdown with a decent throw. And that's why it's hard to go against who they are as an offense and just say, well, you should have run the ball. If that, if Devonte Freeman blocks a dude, who cares? The game is over. we laud Kyle Shanahan for just stepping on their throats. I don't know. It's tough for me because it's a matter of execution on every level.

It's not just a matter of who's calling the play. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, yeah. And it's like I said, you can't blame one thing. I mean, it's, I don't know. It's just tough, though, because it, well, I mean, clearly it was like a complete collapse on every level, like the defense collapsed.

So, you know, I don't know. It's tough. It's just really, really tough. It's, you could point to any number of different things. And that's like, oh, that would have been the difference in the game there. It's over if they do this one thing differently, you know? High Tower is the guy that's going to be the hero in some ways, just the place he made. The other guy that just was fantastic on the stretch was Trey Flowers.

And he made like seven. And over the course the whole game, not even down the stretch, his sack on Ryan early on was thwarted a drive in the first quarter. That was a big play. And he made a tap. He made a play on the one where Matthews got the holding call on second and one that pushed them back to second 11. Go back and watch what Trey Flowers does the Andy Lovitre on that play. It should be illegal.

I mean, it's just unbelievable just control and hand usage, pinpoint defensive line play. And that was the thing is even over the course of that stretch, they believe they can win. They knew at every single point that they could still win. And that matters. and the way that those guys were playing, it was little tiny things that allowed them to make those plays. I don't even think you make those if you feel like the game is over. Right.

Yeah, I mean, they all had to believe and keep playing their asses off. You see a lot of teams give up when they're down by 25, you know. So, I mean, definitely credit to the Patriots for that. I think flower, I like flowers a lot. He plays with really good leverage. I think when I just think of him, he's just all about leverage. It's almost like I'm not comparing him to Aaron Donald at all. believe me, but like he has the same sort of ability to leverage his size and length and everything

really, really well. He's going to be a really good player. I think that he's going to be a nice piece for them moving forward. He's a kid. How old is straightfathers? He's 23. Like, he's going to be fine. Crazy.

Yeah. I mean, the defense definitely, how many times they sack him like five times or something like that? Yes, more than any other, more than any other game in the season, five times. I mean, that mattered. He had never, he hadn't been sack five times all year. Yeah, that was huge. And I mean, I think you're right.

Like it probably killed like, I mean, it probably killed all five of the drives there on. I can't remember if they scored on any of the ones that he got sacked on, but at least three or four of them. And something, that's huge against a team who scored more points per drive than any team in the NFL this year and in many years. And then who were scoring even more points per drive in the playoffs. So, I mean, it was like, if you kill a few there drives, like it's a different game.

By the way, the coach's tape is up now. Of course it is, right? Awesome. I should have a bit. I think, and it was not still up. So, yeah, awesome. I also, the one thing I wanted to talk about before we get out of here, LaBardi and I talked about the free agents a little bit,

New England-wise, so we can skip that. I just wanted to ask you where you want Garapolo to end up. Where do I want him to end up? That's a great question. I mean, it makes sense one of these teams that desperately, like San Francisco would be fun. But I would love to see him there. I just don't know if that'd be a good.

enough. I don't know if the situation there is good enough to warrant me wanting him there. I feel like that's just me being mean to Jimmy Garapolo. Put him in the shittiest situation. What about Chicago? I would take him. I'd take him in a heartbeat, man. That's fine with me. If you want to deal a second round pick for Jimmy Garoplo, if that's enough to get him, I'm in. Let's do this. What about if it's a first round pick? Well, we have the third overall pick, so I'll pass on that. Okay, that makes sense. Maybe a tradeback or something like that. That's fine.

That's fine. The third overall pick is a little too rich for my blood. Yeah, I feel you. I feel you. I would agree. I mean, there's just,

I wonder if the whole Brock Osweiler experiment failure this year is going to make it harder for the Patriots to trade him or if it's just, there's just too much demand for quarterbacks of this. I think there's too much demand for quarterbacks. Yeah. I mean, that to me is going to be one of the interesting free agency storylines is just, I mean, the Brock Oswald player thing was such a disaster for Houston that, I don't know, does it make people gun shy? But I agree with you.

I probably, it's just there's so many teams right now that need quarterbacks that might not matter. Yeah, I don't think it will matter. I think somebody will deal for him and I think the New England should do it. I mean, just if you can get a first round pick of any kind for a guy that probably is going to be your backup that you would need to resign and he maybe be sitting on the bench for a chunk of that contract, it just, I think you got to do it. Yeah. All right, man. I think that's all we got. I, uh,

this is it. This is fun, man. Good season. Season's over. I can't believe your one is in the books. It feels like just yesterday, uh,

we launched the site and it's been seven full months, eight full months. And that's it. I mean, that's the end of the season. And before we know, we'd be back. But for now,

I don't know what you're going to do. I'm going to go sit in the movie theater for like six straight days. I know. I need to like turn off my brain. I kept telling Ryan, my editor like, you know, like we go through and edit articles and kind of like shoot ideas off of each other.

And like I told him so many times in last like two weeks, my brain isn't working. Like it's just like I got nothing left. It was like the end of the marathon. You just kind of hit the wall. So I'm definitely ready for a little bit of a break. But we don't have a lot of time because the combine's coming up. Combines coming up. This is going to be our last show until the Combine.

I am making that executive editorial decision right now. Fair enough. Fair enough. So we'll be back with shows from Indy when the Combines. It heats up again. We'll all be there. There'll be a bunch of other people there. So we'll definitely get some voices on the show when that rolls around at the end of February. But until then, I just want to say thank you to everyone for listening all season. This has been a blast. I feel like me, Danny and Kevin, I think we can speak for him. I've been really proud to work together and to kind of bring this stuff to you. I feel like it's going to be fun moving forward. We're excited to have Mike on board. And all I believe is that year two will be better than year one. And it's going to be nice to get a couple days. But I'm very. excited to get back to it when we do. Same here, man. It was an honor working with you. And yeah, I'm really proud of what we did.

And I'm already looking forward to next year. I think we're going to just bigger and better. I totally agree. All right, bud. Thanks to everybody for listening. And have a good offseason, whatever that means.