The Ringer NFL Show - Ep. 75: The Consistency Rankings

Episode Date: February 16, 2017

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Danny Kelly break down the stability of several NFL teams, including the New England Patriots (02:00), the Dallas Cowboys (07:00), the Miami Dolphins (21:00), the Denver Broncos (31:40), and the San Francisco 49ers (40:25). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the ringer NFL show is brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. If you enjoy our podcast, you may also enjoy The Masked Show, where every week professional wrestling journalist David Shoemaker hosts an all-star cast of comedians, writers, wrestlers, and more to discuss all things happening in and out of the squared circle. The Mass Man show can be found on the ringer's Channel 33 podcast. You can subscribe to this show on iTunes by going to iTunes.com slash the ringer or find us wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the Ringer. show. My name is Robert Mays. I'm writer at the ringer. Join me in the other line. It's Dana Kelly. Danny. How are you? I'm doing great, man. You sound like you sound like you've been eating cigarettes to borrow a line that you just said to me. I should have said, welcome to the ringer NFL show. My name is Robert Mays. I'm writer at the ringer. And this is what I sound like after seeing Japan drives twice and three nights. You sound like hell, man. Yeah, season is hard on you. It's really just my throat. Just a lot of singing, a lot of shouting from the mountain top. And it was very fun. But You know, we have things to talk about because football never sleeps. That's right.

We're coming to you guys. We're going to try to do, you know, I'm not going to make myself beholden to a schedule, but we're going to be back with some regularly scheduled programming here for a while. And, you know, we're going to do some different stuff. We're going to talk about some things we've written. We're going to do some things that are necessarily tied to the news cycle because there is no news cycle at this point. You know, if we want to do 45-minute podcast about Brandon Albert getting released, we could. But I'm not sure that's going to be useful.

So right today, we're going to talk about something. Danny wrote, recording this on Thursday. Danny wrote something that went up this morning just about kind of who are the most stable franchises in the league, you know, as we move from this year to next year and kind of tinged by what they've been for a long time. Obviously,

the ones that are stable from this year to next year are more stable if they've had a history of the same people in charge. So that's what we're going to chat about. We're going to talk about kind of the teams at the top, why they're there, why some teams are at the bottom. Some teams that in my mind are just in the exact wrong fucking place. and I'm going to yell at Danny about them.

But that's what we're going to do. I hope that sounds all right to you, bud. Well, I don't know. I mean, I'm interested to hear you just totally lay waste to my arguments. But yeah, let's definitely get into this because I'm ready for that too. It's been too long. You should. Here's a Barnwall told me this once.

He said, anytime you do 32 of something, it's a lot of something. Anytime you rank 32 things, it gets to be a lot. And it absolutely is. So it's like 3,000 words, man. So I was like, I prepped for it all the day before. And then I just started writing it. I'm like, man, it just keeps getting longer and longer. 32 something's a lot of something.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, obviously at the top, I think there's no other place to start. I mean, you, a team that has had the same quarterback and same head coach for a decade and a half when the Browns have had 17 of those in the last 15 years. So the New England Patriots are far and away, you know, the most stable franchise in this sport and in most sports. You know, the NBA, there's, you can get over the cap, there's bird rights, you can sign guys to bring them back. There are just incentives for guys to come back outside of their own, you know, monetary interests. In the NFL, there aren't really that many things in place to do that. You have the franchise tag, but there aren't a ton of reasons for teams to be able to do what the Patriots have done.

And, you know, that's why they're number one with the bullet. There's really no other team you can almost think about putting there. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was, the whole time I made this list, it was always the Patriots. and then what? Who else? Just because, I mean, obviously, the culture is so strong. The Patriot Way is like a term that we all use now.

We've been using for 15 years. Right. And I mean, obviously the relationship that Belichick and Brady have, I mean, it's like, even when you look at the coordinators, they're both going into their sixth straight season for some crazy reason. Like, no one's plucked them yet. So they just have so, like the language is just so locked. in the messaging is really locked in.

You know, the culture of the team and the identity of the team and all that. It's just so, I mean, stable, obviously. And I just think going from this year to next year, I mean, it's just a smooth transition. Especially for a Super Bowl team, like, I don't see this being like a crazy, difficult transition that you see with a lot of Super Bowl teams. The coordinator thing is the craziest part to me. And I think they got lucky in a way. And Patricia just became the defensive coordinator.

by name not that long ago. You know, Valachek, it essentially not giving him that title for whatever reason. So he just got there, as he had been doing it for a couple years. And the McDaniels, they kind of lucked into it in the sense that he had the Broncos job. It went horribly.

He came back. So he's not in a hurry to go do that again unless it's a situation that he feels completely comfortable in. So in that way, it's kind of this perfect confluence of circumstances that's allowed them to keep those guys. Because even think about the team we're going to talk about next, your team, when you have a really good defense and a really good team, the coordinators go.

You had two that went. It just doesn't happen where you have this sort of continuity with the coaching staff when the coaching staff is this good. Think about the Patriots the first time. Cronnell got a head coaching job. Weiss gets hired somewhere. I mean, these guys just go elsewhere because they're high profile names. Yeah.

There's so much turnover in the coaching ranks across the league. I mean, we saw it this year. I mean, some of the teams that we'll talk about later, literally created brand new staffs of like, you know, 10 or 15 people each. And so you're plucking people from different teams and, you know, guys are always looking to either have building block jobs, stepping stone jobs, or, you know, get a promotion or whatever, get more money. And obviously this year, I think it helped that the Patriots, you know, did the long run

through the playoffs. I think that probably made it harder to get, you know, McDaniels sort of, I guess teams weren't willing to risk waiting for them or whatever, you know, he interviewed with 49ers and then, you know, took his name out of the running and everything. But, yeah, so just the fact that they were able to keep both of their coordinators plus Belichick, it's like they just, there's no, I mean, there's no speed bump this off this off season other than free agency, which happens every offseason for every team. So I don't know.

I just think they're so set up for success again next year. It's crazy. And it's also kind of annoying and frustrating. Yeah, it really is. So let's move on to, you know, the other section, the Patriots, then there's the there's the field. I think the teams you have up there, it makes sense to me.

Seattle is a really good example. Just the relationship that Pete Carroll and John Schneider have. You have Russell Wilson going into, what is it, you're six now? Isn't that crazy? Something. Yeah.

I think that is it. Yeah. I mean, that's just kind of weird. But you've been, and the defense has been around for so long. The Saints, you have that pairing with Peyton and Breeze.

It's been going out for more than a decade. I think that they're a little high for me just based on the defense of turnover. They have both personnel-wise and with the staff. You know, the offensive staff is obviously just the beat goes on with them always. But the defensive staff, I think there's been a lot there to put them that high, but I understand why they are. The Packers, Ted Thompson's been the GM there for 30 years because Ron Wolf and Ted Thompson are the same person.

So, I mean, they've had the same GM. Maybe he has a different name, but they've had the same one. And the fact that Rogers and McCarthy have been there the whole time, that that's just crazy. So I think that makes a lot of sense. Dallas at five makes less sense to me. okay they just got a new quarterback and a new running back and their defensive coordinator still relatively

I think he's been there for three years their defensive their defense of personnel name me three players on the cowboys defense period oh man okay so well I mean if you look at the the Packers and the Saints

for me it was about their offense and those are that's the identity of both of those teams and I think he'd say the same about the Cowboys, that's their identity. And so when I was looking at it, I was, I kind of narrowed my focus because there's a lot of ways you can do this in terms of ranking. And like you said, in 32 teams, there's a lot of something. The way that I looked at it was how easy is the transition going to go from year,

from last year to this year? And I look at what they have, they have the rookie quarterback who's going to have an extra year under his belt, the rookie running back who is going to have another year learning the system and refining that. They return all five starters from the beginning of last year. Garrett's just, you know, solid rock there as the head coach. There's just continuity across the board in their identity. And so obviously, I mean, if you look at, you know, the, if you go back further in terms

of like longevity and all that, yeah, you could definitely make an argument that the Cowboys should be lower. But I'm just looking at it sort of a narrow focus of this year to next year. and how easy it's going to be the transition. I think the Cowboys can just hit the ground running again next year. That's fine. I'll give you that one. There are a couple more here that I will not give you.

Oh, God, the lines are coming up. So as we get further down to the top 10, Cincinnati makes total sense. Pittsburgh makes total sense. Keith Bowler is even a kind of a transition step, kind of an extension of Dick Lobo. I mean, you consider that plus how long Haley's been there. They've had the same kind of core group for a long time, ideologically, and the same faces. I feel like that's also something we should chat about when we get down to the Falcons and other teams talking about coordinator changes. Offensive coordinator continuity is one of the most underrated bits of any team success.

The amount of time you spent in a singular system matters so much. And I think Haley just kind of hanging around there with Rothersberger is part of the reason they've been able to do that. So anyway, I think those are fine. The Detroit Lions are eight. That is cat to be fucking insane. Okay. Jim Colwell is on the version of getting fired every single year. They just because he's the head coach there doesn't mean it's a good thing or that people want it.

Also, I said, name me three Dallas Cowboys defensive players. Name me two Detroit Lions defensive players. Ezekiel Anza, for one. That's one. And then Darius Slay.

You can't even say D'Andre Levy because he doesn't play. Yeah, you're right. Shit. Okay. Well, first of all. of all, let me just say, you made my argument for me right before this segment about talking about the Steelers.

And I'm looking at Cooter going into his third season as offensive coordinator in that relationship with Matt Stafford and how important that is and how big of a deal that is. I mean, if you look at the difference between year one Matt Stafford or sorry, year one, Matt Ryan and Kyle Shanahan versus year two, Matt Ryan and Kyle Shanahan, it was night and day. and I like Jim Cooter as a play caller. I think his offense, he really gets the most for Matt Stafford. I think that he understands the position

and understands what Stafford can do and asks him to do the things that he can do. Clearly, the Lions defense is a liability. And, you know, having Terrell Austin there for what, his third straight year, four straight year, third straight year, no, four straight year. Yeah, and he's a good coordinator.

I think he's a good coach, but I also just think that they've got a new slew of bodies rolling in there every single year. I mean, it's crazy how just they do not have a ton of guys in their mainstays of that unit. They really don't. I mean, Glover Quinn's been a solid player for them. They just signed him a couple years ago. On the front, you know, they lose fairly. They lose Sue. You know, not as there, but who knows for how long.

You know, the guy, that spot opposite Zigianza has been a rotating cast of whoever's for a long time. The best player on their freaking defense last year, aside from Darius Slay was Carrie Hider, who's number 61, because they signed him from nowhere. You got the last number available. Exactly. I mean, again, to me, yeah,

and I get where you're coming from, believe me, and you also just casually mention, oh, they have to replace the right side of their offensive line. Well, I mean, they can use a, they can use a franchise tag if they have to, and then keep at least one of them. You know, who knows.

But so the thing is, I just see them building that identity. It's the third year of that offense. And I think they really, excuse me, came into it. And we saw, we've seen kind of the beginning of what could be like a really, really solid offense. So that's where they go in. And then if you look at the teams below them, I mean, they all, you all could, you could make the same arguments that I, that you're making by the lions below them. Like, I mean, should we just go on or do you want to, do you want to linger on

my terrible lion's choice right now at eight. I mean, it's a terrible choice, but that's fine. We don't have to linger out anymore. I just want to tell you that the lion's finished dead last in defensive DBOA last year. Like that sounds like great continuity. I would love to keep that going. The two teams that I feel like absolutely should be higher than them,

one, the fact that Baltimore is below Detroit makes zero sense to me. Like, John Hervon. What is their offense? What is their offensive identity? I guess you could say the exact same thing about what's the defense, what's the Lions defense. I think the Ravens are like one of the worst offenses in the NFL. I agree with you there.

But I also think there are. For me, it's like a total flip-flop thing. Like you're saying the Lions defense sucks, blah, blah, blah. The Ravens have no identity on offense at all. That's a solid point. But I think having the same quarterback there for a long time gives you more continuity on that offense than Detroit's had on their defense. Identity aside.

That's fair. That's still one of the facts you've had there for a long time. Marshall, like Marshall Yon has been there for 17 years too. Like they have players that have been around. And then when you go to the defensive side, Dean Pease has been there for a while. I know it seems like we have this rotating cast of characters as the Ravens defensive coordinator. Peas has been there for a while. Harba's been there for a long time. Ozzie Newsom, I know we're not talking about front offices here.

But just from where they're going, I mean, they just got a new, they just got a new GM in Detroit. Like this Baltimore team is much more stable than this Detroit team. I don't even think it's close. Jesus, did you take debate in high school or something? I did not. I just yell at people a lot. You make some very good points about identity and culture and things like that. Again, I mean, it's, to me, it's splitting hairs because I try to focus this year to next year.

Totally. And you make very valid points in terms of, like, in the building messaging and culture and just the way that, like, I guess there's no such thing as the Ravens way. but the Ravens definitely have. We just don't say it because the Ravens aren't... The Ravens aren't like that hoity-toity about it. They're like they're not quite like the Patriots. They don't trademark things. They trademarked something terrible about the Sixth Super Bowl this week.

I can't remember what it was. It was like something for Six that was awful. It's like, God, the Patriots love that shit. Okay, continue. Image is everything. Oh, God. Yeah. So, I don't know.

I definitely, you could definitely make an argument for that. And I mean, I'm not like going to die on the Lions Hill or anything like that. Maybe they were a little too high. The other I would say that I would be a little bit higher in that top group for me. Carolina would have been, but the McDermott thing matters in my mind. I think that Rivera has enough of a hand on that defense that it makes sense for them to be a little bit higher. But I do think McDermott leaving is a thing. The one that I would say I would put higher is Kansas City because Dorsey's been there for a while.

and Reed really has such a hand in all of the things that happen. The fact that Bob Sutton's been there from day one with them, I just think that a lot of the elements of that team are really intact. And whether Alex Smith's going to be the quarterback there for much longer is a whole different issue. But for the most part, I think that that's a team that's just bang, bang, bang, every year. Derek Johnson. Yeah. Tom Ali, Justin Houston, same defensive coordinator.

We'll see what happens with Eric Barry. But I think for the most part, that team is just as rock solid as you can get in ways both good and bad. Right. I mean, it's like the same every year. It's like the seven to nine bullshit, but like a little bit better. Yeah, a little bit better. It's a 10 and 6 losing the playoffs bullshit.

Yeah, no, that's definitely fair. I feel like when I was making my rankings, I moved the chiefs up and down like three or four times because I kept fiddling with how important that Barry and Poe are both free agents right now. and they only have one franchise tag. And what's the impact if they lose one of those guys? I guess that was kind of like where I landed on in like terms of why they fell down a little bit.

I think that's typically too much though. I mean, I think that's one of those two guys saying that they're going to lose one of those two guys is not enough for me to knock them that far down because of how much stability there is in the highest levels of the franchise. Yeah, totally. And that, I mean, now that I'm kind of like looking at it, they do feel a little bit low. especially since they only have two free agents on offense right now,

which is kind of crazy. I mean, just in terms of staggering, like, contracts and everything, that's pretty smart by the Chiefs. Obviously, the question is what's going to happen with Jamal Charles? That's another kind of up in the air thing,

not that they necessarily, I feel bad saying not that they need him because he's such a great player, but they prove that, you know, they have other things that they can do on offense this year. So, yeah,

I mean, they're all, and again, It's like if you look at these teams, like Bengals, Steelers, Lions, Ravens, Cardinals, chiefs, they're all, it's splitting hairs in terms of, I made, I have, like, a spreadsheet of different, like, variables and, like, almost all the variables on all these teams. I don't even know how to use a spreadsheet. I mean, it's like they all have the exact same variables. It's like head coach, offense coordinator, or defense quarter, all same. Scheme, philosophy, identity, nothing changes.

The quarterback is the same. there's approximately the same continuity and their coordinators. Obviously, like they had kind of a change in offensive coordinator with children becoming a assistant head coach. I don't really know what's going on there.

You know, and then Nagy is now the official offense coordinator. It doesn't matter because Reed's calling plays anyway. Yeah, that's kind of the thing is that he's the offensive coordinator. Like losing Doug Peterson to me doesn't shake it up. What's that? I said losing Doug Peterson to me doesn't shake it up.

You know, I'm not really worried about that. Yeah. So, I don't know. I mean, that's definitely, I think the chiefs are solid, solid team. I think all these teams are solid. And so, like, putting them, you know, whether it's 10, 11, 9, 10, 11, 8, 10, 11, whatever. Like, they're all very, very ready to just hit the ground running next year in my mind.

Yeah, that's, I totally agree. And it is splitting hairs. I think that that rejiggering is just something I wanted to chat about because I feel like some of it was a tiny bit off. You have the middle group. You have every right to do that. Thanks, buddy. We wouldn't be doing this if I didn't. I think the middle class here is fascinating in a lot of ways.

I don't know if there's really, these are longer conversations. Like to me, the 15, 16, 17, 18 stretch of Philly, Tennessee, Tampa, Indy, Miami, even at 19, that stretch is really interesting to me. Because I think that a lot of those teams could go in pretty drastic directions next year. Like, I think that the Eagles have a lot of talent. on defense. I think the Titans have a lot of talent on offense. And I think that Miami is in that same boat.

Like if Miami had the best offense in football next year, would it shock you? Not terribly. Yeah. I mean, it's like one of those things. I actually, so I wrote about this, we were recording this on Thursday again. I wrote for tomorrow about the unit that could be the Falcons, the Falcons offense

for next season. Like a group that the Falcons offense finished 22nd DVOA in 2015. And they, and they became one of the, yes. And they'd be. became one of the best offices we've ever seen. And it's a matter of a couple different factors. It's you have another year in the system with the quarterback.

You have a really good coordinator. You have a couple pieces that you added, both big money and getting lucky. You know, if Taylor Gabriel doesn't get released by the Browns week before the season, it doesn't matter how savvy the Falcons are as his personnel team. But getting Alex Mack was smart. So I actually,

these teams kind of in this tier, they all had units that I mentioned. I said the Eagles defense, if they go out and get a corner or two, the Titans offense, because the Titans offense is close, man. I think they could actually be really close. If they go get the guy that I brought up, which just think about this for a second, maybe just Sean Jackson in a Titans uniform. Ooh, right?

That's interesting. Right? That was really fun. I was very proud of that. That could be awesome. They love to take shots. They desperately need another receiver. Outside of that, they have all those dudes coming back.

they'll have to figure out what they do at their right guard spot. But again, we're nitpicking and we're talking about who the right guard is going to be as this downgrade on continuity. Right. So they got a lot of stuff I like. And I said the Dolphins offense because I just think that what happens on the offensive line is the number one question. Then I think they need to bring back any stills. I would re-sign him. After they cut Albert today, they have 37 million in cap space.

They can afford to bring back stills. And then if you move tons little left tackle, you have two guard spots that are open. So if you use maybe a second round pick on one of those and go get one of the guys in free agency, the Ronald Leary's of the world, the Larry Warfords of the world, go get one of those dudes. That offense gets real interesting in a hurry, man. I think Tannaniel was pretty damn solid in year one under Gase. If he can come back with that knee injury wasn't as bad as other ACL stuff that we've talked about. If he can come back and kind of pick up where he left off, it's kind of a similar thing.

I think Matt Ryan's a better quarterback than Ryan Tanahill. But if you take a step forward in year two, you have really good offensive coach. there's a lot there. Yeah, there's a lot of parallels there, honestly, because, I mean, Gase has made his career for being kind of like this savvy, cerebral play caller, you know, a QB whisperer or whatever. And Shannon has the same style and it like took a minute to get going. And we saw in the second half of the year, like that Miami offense started to be pretty

potent. It had moments. I mean, to finish 14th with how much of a shit show their offensive line was, but you don't release Brandon Albert. unless he was that bad. And he was that bad. You lose Pouncey for 11 games. It's just they didn't have any stability there.

And to be able to sustain as a reasonable offense without that, that's really hard to do. And I think it speaks to Gase and everything else. What's that? I think it speaks to Gase and everything else. And just the, like the ridiculous collection of skill players that they have. Yeah.

And that's what I was just going to say is like they have these guys too that are sort of on the verge of breaking out, you know, you know, Devante Parker is the guy that I'm thinking. of like he he definitely flashed moments of like brilliant like he had a couple like really crazy awesome catches like towards a sideline and they haven't really begun to tap him in terms of his potential and so i think they're concerned is that he hasn't been able to tap his

potential that that's the problem there is that that may just be a we we never get to see what devante parker is because devonte parker never lets us yeah the other the other thing about miami is i mean their running back group was really really young last year but it's kind have an exciting group like Damian Williams, Kenyon Drink. They had some interesting, I guess, options in that. And that is somewhat similar to the Patriots and how you have like different style guys. Sure. Like you got J.J.I. is like the hammer.

And then, you know, you have the other two guys who are a little bit more spacebacks. And it's an interesting mix. I like their, I like, yeah, like you said, I like their skill position players. It's, you know, that when you asked me who the Atlanta for next year was going to be, I thought, The dolphins kind of flashed in my mind, but that was the first ones I thought about. The Phillies defense was up there for me, too, just because I think that they finished third in defensive DBOA. I mean, it's not even like fair to kind of mention them because they were really good. The only problem they had was they gave up 57 passes of 20 yards or more, and almost all of those came outside the numbers.

Like, they just have no corners. Trading error for nothing doesn't help, but they had no corners. So I just think that that team's like one or two moves away from being really scary. And I think the dolphins are the same way with that line. I mean, if Tano can come back healthy, I think they could be reasonably good next year. Yeah, no doubt. I like that, I like that choice. Do you want to hear mine?

I have a couple. Go for it, buddy. So when you ask me, I kind of, I was thinking about this, there's two teams that kind of came to mind, and they're not in the same vein as Miami in terms of sort of like a young group on the cusp of breaking out. I thought of the Cardinals. That's not even fair, though. I mean, they were the best offense in league two years ago.

I know, but like, they, were pretty bad last year. And we were talking about, like, is Carson Palmer basically done? And then he had a really, really strong second half. So he was, he was, that was one team I thought of. And the other team I thought of, which is we talked about in the, in the live show a couple of weeks ago was the Chargers. And I'm just kind of interested to see what Anthony Lynn's run game looks like in

combination with Philip Rivers. Now, there's obviously going to be that learning curve that we've been talking about this whole episode and maybe it doesn't happen in one year or ever. But I kind of just like the marriage of that the bills run offense from last year with Phillip Rivers and getting him, you know, his guys back next year, get some healthy guys back. And they've got a really deep receiver group because they got a lot of experience last year with the losses that they had.

Keenan Allen missed most of the year. I think he was out in the first week. So that was another team. I thought of that could go from kind of middling, you're not really paying much attention to them this year to, like one of the best offenses next year. I, they came to mind too. My concern with them is the line because they were bad this year up front.

And I don't know what recourse they have to get better quickly. I could see King Dunlap being released because he had a pretty big contract. The problem is it's not as if it's like, oh, one guy needs to get fixed. And then maybe we'll sign one other dude like Miami. It's no one's really good. We have a lot of guys that we signed to come back. sizable contracts and no one's playing well. Did Orlando Franklin not do well this year?

He didn't have a very good year. And like, you know, the, what's his name? Fluker's never been what they wanted him to be. Bark still had a bad year. I mean, it just wasn't a very good group overall. So you just have all these guys that you've signed and kind of invested in. It's not like, oh, we missed on a third round pick.

We'll pick another one. You know, that that's not really what's going on with the Chargers' offensive line. So that's the concern to me. I think that what Lynn does on offense can make alignment look better. I would think that definitely was the case. in Buffalo, but I'm not sure even he can do enough to really put those guys over the top. No.

Yeah. And that's that's definitely a big variable. And I mean, when I think about it, it's, it's hard to imagine them like just hitting the ground running, which is kind of the theme of this whole podcast, really. So I don't know. There's a lot of changes happening there. So, but, but just in terms of like a new head coach, new DC, you know, like landing in a place with like a top level quarterback, it is kind of interesting.

Yeah, I totally agree. I think there's enough talent there where it wouldn't surprise me, but I was less bullish on them than I was on some of these other teams. So 20 and 21 to me are very fascinating. 20 is Atlanta, which it is crazy to think that a team that was in the Super Bowl, was historically good on offense, looked pretty damn good on defense by the end of the season. Is it 20? But I get it.

Right. I mean, the Shanahan thing is that important. I feel like 20 is still a little bit low because even Joe Shanahan leaves the entire offensive personnel grouping comes back. Now, Gabriel's a restricted free agent, I believe, something like that. But for the most part, you're getting those guys. And defensively, it's the same kind of deal. And I think that losing their defense coordinator is overstated.

You know, we've talked about this a little bit. Dan Quinn's defensive coordinator of the Falcons. Like, so I think that for the most part, you're really just talking about Shanahan. And that's the thing is I think he's enough to put them pretty far down the list. Well, yeah, and I mean, you said it earlier. Like the Falcons were 22nd in DVOA, the first year of Shanahan's, you know, thing. And so, like, how, and the other thing that I took into account here is, like, we know nothing about Sark as, like, an NFL play caller. Nope.

You know what I mean? So, like, I don't know. Like, so I was thinking about, you know, there's, I think there's kind of a tendency for people to be like, oh, he did this in so and so. and so therefore plug it into this program and it automatically works. But there's things like personal relationships, you know, just communication, all these things like, you know, and it's also a different sport. Like, I mean, the NFL game is a different game. Right.

It's vastly different. It doesn't matter what he did in so-and-so place. We'll just kind of figure out which pieces he's going to put together to be this guy at this level. He's never been an NFL coordinator before. Right. Right. So to me, that's like a huge deal. I mean, it's not like they went and got some retread who has like 10 years of experience con plays in the NFL. It's like a real unknown to replace like the best play caller in the NFL this year and to basically take over the best offense in the NFL. Do you imagine? I mean, like obviously it's one of those situations you can't pass up. It's like he has a pretty lose lose situation here. Like they're almost surely going to be worse next year. And then like everyone's going to blame him. but just by mere luck they would be worse next year. Right.

That's the thing. So it's the one of, it's the situation I'm most interested in watching from a just not a new head coach, just a new piece of a staff. This is the one I'm most interested in watching. What the hell is this going to look like and how good can they be with this group? It's the number one question I will ask coming into the season about a coordinator. Yeah, definitely.

And here's the other thing that I kind of, this isn't like one of the top things I thought about. but like I just was trying to picture how much turmoil will be in each building during the off season, you know, just how different is it? Like when you have, you have some of these teams that bring in a whole new, like, coaching staff, it's like everyone's trying to like introduce each other, you know, themselves or each other. Like, it's this whole new crazy, like thing. And then there's a lot of upheaval. I'm thinking like the Falcons offseason. If I, you know, like after they blew a 25 point lead in the Super Bowl, like, shit's going to be, there's going to be some drama in that, in that blocker room.

in the off season. And so just in terms of like smooth transition from one year to the next, like after watching what the Seahawks did after they blew the Super Bowl two years ago, like they're still talking about it. And it's still like a point of contention with, you know, all that. Luckily I get, or I don't know if it's luckily, but obviously it's not luckily, but like Shanahan won't be there. So that kind of takes away from it.

But I mean, it's still like, it's still going to be one of those things that they're going to, it's going to be hard to get over that loss. Yeah. And I agree. It's a lot. Yeah, I agree. And especially when you are bringing new people on top of that. All right, let's move on.

I want to just talk very briefly about the Vikings at 21. I think they're too low at 21. Because your argument just about how there's a lot of guys coming in and out, whatever, the guys that are going to be gone and were there last year, for the most part, weren't there anyway. Matt Khalil was bad or hurt. Adrian Peterson didn't play the entire season. You know, all the guys that they're going to maybe lose in free agency are guys that

they pretty much had to live without last year anyway. And that includes Teddy Bridgewater. You know, they're not losing your refrigerator, obviously, but he didn't play last year. So they're bringing back the same guys for the most part. And the guys that are not bringing back are guys they wouldn't want to bring back. Right.

Well, the way that I looked at it is, it felt to me like they changed their entire identity on the fly last year. And I still don't really know what it is. And I mean, maybe from the inside. Yeah, an offense. And if you're looking at it from the outside in, I mean, we obviously just don't have,

we're not privy to those conversations and like what they're planning. But like my look at it right now is like I don't know who they're planning on leaning on. I assume it's Sam Bradford since I think that Bridgewater is still, you know, probably at least halfway through the year to come back. But it's like how are they planning on like what's their offensive design? and what are they planning on doing? And so I just looked at it like, I mean, it feels like they're still scrambling to figure out,

like what their identity is. And so that's kind of like why they're so low to me. Here's my argument. I think that they have pieces on offense, including the fact that Bradford played pretty damn well last year. Their biggest issue is that they couldn't block anybody. And that's what they have to figure out. And I don't know how they're going to be able to figure it out.

But that's the thing, the guys that they're losing are the dudes that made them bad. So if they can try to replace those people with even replacement level players, I think they have a chance to be pretty solid on offense next year. Maybe I'm just being delusional, but I mean, Adam Thielen can play a little bit. And Stefan Diggs definitely can't. Kyle Rudolph had a nice season. I just think that if they get a couple of linemen in there,

they have a chance to be at least serviceable on offense. And with that defense, I think it has the makings of a decent team. here's the thing. I think this is where bias and maybe just opinions can come in. I don't think Sam Bradford is good. I think that's kind of like where it started. The other thing that was big and I, you know, this is like, we haven't really talked about a ton yet because we're still not into that section,

but like quarterback is a huge thing in stability for me. And I just am not sold on Sam Bradford. I mean, I watched him in the NFC West for years. He didn't do anything in film. I mean I don't know what's wrong with me I watched him last year I was like man he looks okay

maybe I'm just there's something wrong with me I really think there's something wrong with my wiring I mean he did make he made a couple good throws like early on in the year but then I feel like we didn't see a whole lot

from him after that he was getting the shit kicked out of him well sure yeah that's true that's kind of been the story of his whole career honestly but still I mean I just I guess it comes down to like the stability at the quarterback position is crappy for the Vikings in my mind.

All right. So the team's a little bit further down in this list. You have the Texans at 22. You have the Bears at 23, the Washington, even at 25. These are all teams, I feel like, are this low because of what's going to happen with their quarterback situation. You know, there is some stability at other parts of these organizations. John Fox has been there for longer than I think I care to admit.

But the other issue, the real issue is who's going to play quarterback for them. So these teams, whether it's Houston, Chicago, who, whoever. If one of them, which of these guys, which of these teams, if they were to get one of the cousins Jimmy G. Romo group, do you think would kind of shoot up this list the furthest for you? Which team would be most helped out by quarterback stability? I guess that is the very simple version of my convoluted question.

I think the Texans, because I agree with you. Yeah, I like that. Well, obviously they have a very good defense. They're presumably getting J.J. Watt back. J. David Clowny kind of had a breakout year. And I don't, I mean, the Vrabel thing, becoming the defensive coordinator,

I don't think that's going to be like a huge scheme or language change. I mean, they're probably, he already knows the language, you know. And that's like a big part of like scheme changes and coaching changes is like guys that change the language of the calls and it just doesn't have. It's not like, you know, you can just snap your finger and you know exactly where you need to be. I don't think it really affects it that much.

Maybe the play calling will be a little bit different. but overall, I think Texans with their defense are set up, if they just got a quarterback, and that's why they took that big risk on Osweiler, and it just, you know, did not work. But like, if they got a quarterback, then they're like, you know, I think you're talking about them as like a top 10 team. So, yeah, I would say,

I'd say the Texans just based on the defense they have. I think Brian, you know, is a pretty good offensive coach. You know, I don't know how much I have faith in him, but I think with that, you know, that group of players that they have, that, especially in that division, they could be really good. Yeah, I agree with you. I think that that would be my answer as well. I feel like they just have enough pieces elsewhere on offense.

You know, like Hopkins is what he is. I think Lamarillo is a solid player. The line worries me a little bit. Dwayne Brown was playing very well by the end of the season, which was nice to see. But I have questions at most of those other spots. So that's something to take a look at, you know, it's not just a quarterback away necessarily.

You know, we're kind of at that conversation about the Rams last year. Like, no, no, the Rams have no, linemen. Like, I know Todd Gurley is good, but it's not just a quarterback. a lot of other problems. I think the Texans are more in that vote than people talk about, but I do tend to agree with you that they would be my answer there. Yeah. All right, man, one other guy,

it seemed that I just was shocked to see them this far down the list, but I can't necessarily argue. Denver's 27 on your list. Yeah. Jesus. Think about how many, and I totally understand it. I mean, since 2011,

they've had three different starting quarterbacks. and three different head coaches. Yeah. I mean, it really is remarkable that it's been that much turnover. And because of how successful they've been, usually when you have teams shuffling guys

and not like that, they're garbage. You know, like I don't want to say the Browns because it's mean, but the Browns. And you've had so much turnover in Denver so often, I guess just aside from Elway that,

who's that coach for the Broncos? I like, and also who the hell is Joe Woods? there is actually on a lot of these when I was putting all of my list together I was like who the hell is this guy had to like Google a bunch of guys because it's just like I mean obviously if they're like sort of in the lower ranks on a team we're not talking about them a whole lot but um I don't know who that is and I don't know what you know Vance Joseph brings to the table I just don't know enough about I don't think his defense was especially amazing last year um you know

people ask me when the Broncos hired him like what does that bring to the team i'm like i don't i don't know like that's to me why this is such a big mystery and like why they're so low i'm not saying this isn't a ranking of like how good they're going to be this is to me is like yep there's a lot of turmoil happening totally in that team and we don't know who their quarterback is really i mean simian showed some stuff i think there's i think i think i saw a couple reports that they want lynch to be the guy still. It's like, I mean, I just don't really know like what's happening on at the quarterback position either.

Not to mention they basically replace the entire staff. Yeah. I mean, it, they start over. And that really is. I mean, like you think about how good they've been. Their two years removed for a Super Bowl was starting over again. And the offense, you know, a lot of those guys, they have no free agents that are starters in their offense.

But you assume that Elkhung might get cut. You also assume that their offensive line was a absolute disaster last year. So there's probably going to be some. turn over there, even if there isn't going to be on the surface. Defensively, most of those guys are back, but Joe Woods has been a lifetime secondary coach is the answer to your question. He was the defensive backs coach in Denver for the last two seasons. And he was in Minnesota for eight years a little bit before that, including a one-year

stint in Oakland. So there is your answer to that question. He's 46 years old. He's been in the league for a long time. Okay. Anyway, that's Joe Woods. And I think that proves our points. I want to, before we get out.

out of here. One other team I wanted to chat about, you know, the other kind of the usual suspects near the bottom here. Jets, Jaguars, you know, like, we know, you're Sean McVeigh and his, you know, Sean McVanis in, in L.A. now. I mean, there's a lot of teams that we're used to being in on this list, you know, I guess Doug Marone is some sort of continuity because he was there last year in Jacksonville. But at the bottom here, I don't think there's any conversation.

I mean, it is the San Francisco 49ers. Like, at least the Browns have had the same GM for a year now. or in the same coach. The 49ers are starting over in every way possible, minus the Jed York elements, which may be the only one that matters, but in every other way, this is going to be a brand new franchise.

And in a lot of capacities, it's like I'm an expansion team. Like, Kyle Shannon can do pretty much whatever he wants here. And it's going to be fascinating to see how it all works. Yeah, totally. I mean, and that's actually, I mean,

I'm not even necessarily, like, down on what they've done so far. Yeah. I'm not either. I think how Shana is a good coach. Yeah, me too. And I, you know, I'm holding out, I'm withholding any sort of judgment on, on Lynch. You know, maybe he'll end up being like a very savvy, you know, just he knows how to evaluate guys.

Who knows? But to me, it's just like, what the, we have no freaking clue, like what this is going to do because Lynch doesn't have any experience as a scouter in the front office. You know, Shanahan's never been a head coach. their defensive coordinator is, I think, a first-time defensive coordinator as well. Like, there's just so many unknowns. Plus, they don't know what's going on with the quarterback. You know, is Kaepernick going to be there? Gabbard and Ponter are both free agents.

Like, there's just like it. And I wrote about this a couple of weeks ago when they officially announced the Shanahan signing. It's like, if they don't give him time to like establish his system, his program, like, the 49ers are just just doing it wrong. They need to give that this time to happen. And, I mean, you said it like, he can basically do anything because there's no expectation or there shouldn't be any expectation for success, the year one. I said that watching Sarkeesian is the most, the coordinator, most interested in seeing. The 49 is the team.

I'm most interested in watching. I mean, there are so many dominoes that can fall with this team. You know, they're having number two pick what they're going to do with that, what they're going to do a quarterback. There's so much kind of terrifying power that they wield this offseason and like how it affects other things. The one thing I read today that I thought was kind of fascinating in Albert Brewer's playbook, which on the MMQB, which I would suggest to anybody, I think it's very valuable reading every week. Lynch was in like draft meetings with the Broncos for a couple years with

L.A. They're very close. So they were, he sat in and like is, has more familiarity with that kind of process that I think people understood, which I did not know. And I think is kind of interesting. That doesn't make you qualify to be a GM necessarily on its own. But I do think it's something to keep in mind as we entered this part of the season where the combine's about happen, free agency is about to happen. He has been around this in more of a capacity than we thought just with him being a broadcaster. So it's going to be fascinating. I mean, like how they spend money, which they have a lot of, boy. I mean, they really, they could go in any single direction. And it's why they're 32 here because it's from scratch. You know, like, they are literally starting from

the ground up. And there really wasn't any other way to endless list. And there's really no other way to end this podcast. That's all we got, man. Absolutely. I mean, yeah, this to me was a fun article to write and a fun pod to do just because it's kind of setting up next year. And it makes me really look forward to it already. Totally. The season just ended up, but man, there's going to be some interesting stuff happening next season.

Totally. I'm looking forward to it. And we're right back at it. Here we go. We'll be back next week. As always, appreciate you guys listening. And we'll talk to you soon.