The Ringer NFL Show - Ep. 76: QB Day: Availability and Value

Episode Date: February 22, 2017

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Danny Kelly team up to evaluate this offseason's available quarterbacks, including Tony Romo (1:30), discuss whether Tyrod Taylor will be changing teams (8:00), rate Jimmy Garoppollo's value (20:30), and name a few veterans who may find new jobs (39:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, my name is Chris Ryan. My name's Andy Greenwald. And we are the co-host of The Watch, a pop culture podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. We are on Mondays and Thursdays. We mostly talk about TV, movies, music, pop culture, Jeremy Renner, house flipping, the papacy, Reese Weatherspoon dancing at wedding videos. We used to talk about Kanye West. He's in the, like, timeout corner right now.

Never ever talk about Christine Bransky. You can listen to The Watch on Mondays and Thursdays on SoundCloud, iTunes. Anywhere you get podcasts, subscribe now. And thanks for listening. It's a good hang. The Ringar-Rat-Fel show. My name is Robert Mays. I'm a writer at the winger.

Join me on the other line. Danny Kelly. How are you? I'm doing great, man. We're almost to free agency now, and it's kind of fun to talk about. Almost. It's still like three weeks away.

A couple weeks. I'm still kind of basking in the post-season, no-news thing for a few weeks. Trust me. I've been loving it. And I think that what we're doing today and what we had today on the ringers are kind of a product of that.

We did quarterback day. And we did quarterback day in the sense of the guys that may be available this off season, the quarterback carousel day, if you will. You know, the kind of the movements that may happen, the dudes that can be had for the right price. And I wrote about this even near the end of last season. It's a unique situation.

There aren't this many off seasons where you have this many guys that could be on the move, this many names that could be on the move. I think it's a combination of stuff. I kind of wrote it in my piece today. in order for the Cowboys to be moving on from Tony Romo right now, a ton of crazy shit had to happen.

Yeah, totally. He had to get hurt three times. They had to have such bad backup quarterbacks last year that they said, we can't do that again. They had to go get Dag Prescott. He had to get hurt again for Prescott to even play. And then Prescott had to be this good

for you to move on from a guy as good as Tony Romo. And that's just not a set of circumstances we often see. And I think that's happened in a lot of different places. You know, like Tyra Taylor, you wrote today, guys like Tyrod Taylor aren't just available in free agency most seasons. It just doesn't happen. So we'll get to all that stuff. But I think that the most important part is the why we're doing this is to establish that

this is a unique just set of parameters that we don't often see. Yeah. I mean, I think what you wrote today was, like, there's many ways to get a quarterback this offseason outside of the draft, which is really, really rare. I mean, you can get, there's several starter quality, starter caliber quarterbacks out there. you know, just randomly hitting the market, whether it's because of cap, you know, cap casualties like Jay Cutler,

I guess they're trying to trade him, but he'll probably get cut. And then, I'd like a pony and a million dollars, but that's not happening. That was the most maniacal laugh I've ever heard in my life. I loved that. But yeah,

no, so in like Tara Taylor, you know, obviously Tony Romo, there's just kind of a list of guys that could end up starting next year and being upgrades for their new team potentially. So I mean, yeah, it's just a really interesting offseason for that. And it's, you know, it was fun.

So let's just, I guess let's just go through the list and kind of break it out. Yeah, people should go check it out. You ranked these guys on The Ringer today. Just kind of a list of the guys that are available who you'd want first and foremost. And I think you started in the way, sorry, I think you started in the spot that most these conversations are going to start. And that's a Roma. I mean, he's a name.

He's been a star. you know, last time we saw him healthy, and he probably could have been the MVP of the league in 2014. I know it's been a while since then, but we've seen what he can do and what he can do is really damn impressive. So the situation with Romo becomes interesting because, like you said, he's not going to be on the Cowboys next year. You can't pay a back quarterback 14 million.

They're going to get some relief somehow. Whether that's with the trade or whether he's released, that becomes a different story. Yeah, and I think, I mean, I put, I did this basically on value. And so like you have to take into account how much is going to cost, you know, to acquire a guy. Do you have to, you know, take and give up a draft pick for him? How much does it cost? How many years are you getting?

How old are they? Things like that. So there's a lot of variables. But like for me, Tony Romo is head and shoulders, both of the rest like in any by any measure. Like whether you have to give up, you know, a pretty high pick for him, I think it's irrelevant because you just don't find guys like this on the open market very often. I mean, he was, he's like an all pro caliber passer when he's healthy. and we haven't seen someone hit the free agent market like that since really since Peyton Manning.

Yeah, Peyton Manning. So, I mean, how funny would it be if the freaking Broncos get him too? I know. And I keep coming back to it. And I think that if you're a team like Denver, why wouldn't you give up a third round pick for him? Seriously. Like, why wouldn't you do it? Because I think in a couple of ways, it helps you.

You ensure that he doesn't go to the table with anybody else. There's no, like, he gets into a meeting and somebody really wows him and I mean, I don't know if that would happen. but you take away all uncertainty when it comes to that. Right. And two, you have him for $14 million this year. That's the 22nd biggest cap hit because his cap hit is 24.7 with Dallas, but that's because his signing bonus and then you have that restructure bonus that's about 5.7.

So they have to pay $10 million of it. So when you take away all that stuff, his cap hit in your world is $14 million, which that's Tom Brady's, which is all just a whole bit, another bit of bullshit. But that is really, really low for a very good. quarterback. So I think that if you can, and obviously next year and the year after it goes up, you may talk to him about restructuring. So he doesn't even play at that 14 million.

But either way, I think it's palatable to give up a pickle like that to get him on the deal you'd be getting him for. Yeah. And I mean, especially with the defense that they have, you know, like it's still one of the top defenses, if not the top defense in the NFL. And, you know, in that window where you have an elite defense, having a quarterback like Romo, I mean, literally they could be Super Bowl favorites again next year if they get Romo in my mind.

I'm worried about the other parts of the offense. I just think that their offensive line is so bad that I worry about Romo playing behind it. Right, yeah. And there's a chance that Romo can mitigate some of that, but I still think that there are other issues on their offense that make me, they give me a little bit more pause than that. I do think it makes them instantly a playoff team again, though.

Okay, maybe favorites is the wrong word. I think contenders for that again. I mean, they missed the playoffs this year, but I mean, yeah, they're just, that defense is just so good that I think. think if they get him it's I that was the section for Roma was like the missing piece like he's a missing piece for a couple teams I think that that take them from being like a middling playoff contender to like a potential Super Bowl team in my mind yeah and I think there are a lot

of reasons that he makes the most sense there and just that look at the cap room they have they're paying their two quarterbacks right now two point eight million dollars combined and that they have 32 million in space they can pay him yeah it's nuts I mean like that's what happens when you have a rookie and a guy you draft in the seven round, two guys on rookie deals. And then you look at, I mean, Houston's paying us to pay us about $18 million.

Like, it's hard to bring in a guy no matter what Roma is going to cost for that. And there's a chance that if you trade for him or if he gets cut and you sign him, you can give him a deal that is a little bit creative, not much money in the first year. You pay him more in the second year.

It's more cash for cash heavy than cap heavy. And that kind of stuff happens all the time. So if he wants to kind of play with that stuff, so it opens up more options for him, That's possible. It's not just a, oh, you have 15 million in space. Romo makes 14 million. That's not doable.

Right. Are there any long shot teams that you see Romo ending up with? Like, I've heard people talking about Chicago a little bit. It feels like this morning. It doesn't make sense to me. I just don't understand what you're doing if you, if that's your plan. Like, why? Do you think that you're going to win a soup bowl in the next two years?

Right. It doesn't make sense to me. I think that you get a guy in, you give him some experience. I, even, I mean, I would rather have Tara, Taylor. Like that's the type of stuff I'm thinking of. I'm more about, if we're looking at the timetable of it all, I would rather go with a younger guy than bring in 37 year old Tony Romo.

I just don't understand what the end game is there. Yeah. And that's, and that's like what goes into the whole value question. Like, what are you getting from this guy? Like if Romo goes to a team that, I mean, the bears have talent, but they're a few years away, right? So what is that by you? You know?

And so I agree with you. I think that I had Tyrod Taylor as my second rank guy on here just based on he's still young. You know, he's got some upside. I think he's still a guy that can improve as a passer. He brings a lot to the running game. Like there's a lot of things to like about this guy. And I just don't really understand why the bills don't want him. Well, it came out yesterday that they may be leaning more toward keeping and then they were a little bit ago.

And if that that's the new regime liking him or them kind of come into that same conclusion, it's like, why wouldn't we want this guy? You look at the teams as kind of trudging through the quarterback wilderness. Why wouldn't you want Tyraudel? You've seen what he is. He's not going to cost you that much if you restructure his deal, which it sounds like they're going to if they keep him. If you can get him in a reasonable price,

you know, something in that middle quarterback money range, I would do it in a heartbeat. Yeah. So like there's the, you know, the famous term like quarterback purgatory where, you know,

you have a quarterback who's good enough to like keep you going, but going to hold you back long. I don't really view Taylor as that. I think, I mean, maybe he's not like a top 10 pass or whatever, but I definitely don't think he was like the problem for the bills this year. I mean, like they had a top 10 offense and, you know, obviously the run game was amazing and, you know, they're efficient. I think he has a, you know, a good deep ball.

I just don't see him as that QB purgatory type of player. Like, there's no downside to keeping him. You know, they can still draft guys and develop down the line and they're not giving him like 100 million. in dollars probably in the restructure. So I don't know. I just, the whole Tyra Taylor and Buffalo thing is a little bit

perplexing to me. Yeah, I just think that he makes sense. I mean, he just makes sense in a lot of ways. And I don't, he's a flawed quarterback, but having a flawed quarterback is better than having no quarterback at all.

Right. Do they have a backup? No, I mean, I don't know what their other plan would be. Well, who would it be? It would be Cardale Jones, right? I mean, like, that's,

right now, that's what they're looking at. So, yeah, I just think that, you know, there are problems with Tyrod, but not enough problems for me to be scared off by him,

especially when you consider the price he will likely be available for if Buffalo does decide to release him. Yeah, so let's play the game like he gets released. You know, obviously you talked about the Bears being an option. Where else do you think he would fit? Like, I kind of thought it'd be interesting if he ended up in San Francisco, actually, in the Shanahan offense where, you know, he can do something from the bootleg game and everything.

That's really interesting. He played out of the shotgun so much in Buffalo, though. I'm not sure how comfortable he'd be doing that. I can't. I'm not, he may be comfortable doing it, but I just never seen him do it. So that's just one of those things where I'm trying to piece it together in my head and I've never seen him make that movement before. So it's hard for me to imagine. Yeah, it might take a year or two to kind of like, you know, acclimate to that or whatever.

I like that. I mean, I think that he's an event. He's a guy that I think is an option for a lot of different teams because it's not like Romo where you're, if you're paying the guy $14 million, you need to win now. Like he's not 37 years old. old. He's a guy that you can kind of build around if you need to. So it brings those rebuilding teams into play where it doesn't with a guy like Romo. Yeah, absolutely.

Taranto is not that young, though. I mean, he's 27, I think. It'll be 28 to start the next season. Okay. So, I mean, he's, he's in that middle range, right? Like, he, you know, you start to worry about a guy when he's in his mid-30s or earlier. I don't know. Like, what is the time when you start worrying about other than elite quarterbacks when you

start worrying about like their arm and everything like that. I also worry about his just ability to move around. It's such a huge part of his value. Right. That it's not as like, oh, well, he'll play at 35 like every other quarterback. As soon as he gets athletically limited,

I'm not saying he's just a runner, but it is a huge part of what makes him valuable. So if that goes away, then you're looking at just not the same product. Right. And I mean, that's kind of what happened with Russell Wilson a little bit this year when he was injured. It's like,

it's just the dynamic part of his game is being able to move and escape and scramble and get outside the pocket. And so when that's diminished, it's a different conversation. But yeah, so one of the guys I actually think is super interesting. And I'm, you know, I don't know if you want to move on from Taylor yet, but I was going to talk about Cousins. Just because, I mean, the Cousins thing is interesting to me. I kind of, I am assuming the Redskins are going to tag him and he'll play in Washington regardless

because I mean most smart teams are not going to let a starter level player leave for, you know, without having some sort of backup plan. And well, first of all, I want to know what do you think of cousins? Like, what's his ceiling for you? He's been such a hard guy for me to pick down for a while now. I did something on him last year, I think after the Green Bay game when he, it seemed like his value was at the height, you know, that we had never been better than that, even in that offense.

And even when you're watching it, it's like, God, these guys are open, man. Like, it's one of those things where his receivers are so good. And I think that offense is really well designed. I just think that it's hard to gauge him outside of those circumstances. Yeah. And we shouldn't gauge him outside of those circumstances because that's what happens. Like, you are, you are what you are in the system that you're in.

So if he's running that well, we shouldn't ding him for that. But it also just, God, the open spaces he's able to throw the ball into. It's difficult for me. I think he's been good in that offense. very good, but I also think a lot of guys could be. And that's kind of what I wrote about in the fall. It's just because a lot of guys could be, does that mean you shouldn't pay for him to be? Because who knows if you're going to find one of those lot of guys?

There's no guarantee that you are. So that's the thing for me is the burden of hand. And I feel like that's what they're doing. They're trying to drag their feet as long as they possibly can. Oh, for sure. And that's kind of what I wrote about today is like, you know, they're paying a premium on him because he's not a, you know, elite level quarterback. my mind where you're going to give up 24 million against the cap to keep him around.

But they're paying that premium, whatever it is, like three or four or five million extra against the cap this year, basically just paying for time and flexibility. So like that's where that money is going. It's time and flexibility. And they can, you know, have 60 more games to evaluate whether they think he's going to be, you know, a franchise cornerstone type of guy. And then in the meantime, if he turns out not to be. And honestly, like, if Garcin and.

Deshawn Jackson are gone next year and say Jordan Reed is you know kind of injury part again like he could end up having a pretty like he could you know go you know go downhill pretty badly next year in theory and it maybe not even because he's getting worse it's just because the guys around him are you know not as talented or whatever and so I don't know they're I think that's just that's what they're doing that that that's the value he provides them is flexibility right now because they don't have to give him that $100 million contract extension yet yeah I mean that's the nature of the franchise tech If you're going to pay a quarterback 20 million, why not pay him 24 million?

That's just kind of the thing. It doesn't matter at that point. You know going in that you're going to have to pay it just out the nose for it. Like that's what you're going to have to do. So that's tough. You know, it's difficult for me to evaluate him. And I think that even like comparing him to other guys, like, would you rather have him or Tyrod Taylor in a vacuum, independent of me?

Like just you're starting a franchise. Honestly, I think I would go with Taylor. just because he's a little more dynamic and I just, I don't know, I just, it's the same kind of deal for me. Like, I can't, it's hard for me to evaluate him because for the most, for most of his career, I've thought he's not like a like a top level quarterback. But then there's moments where he looks like one and it kind of makes you like think, well, maybe I was wrong about him or whatever. But then he throws like a pick six or something. You're like, okay, never mind. I was right.

But I mean, overall, like his stats are pretty good the last two years. And it's kind of hard to argue against that, but I still think I would rather have Taylor. I can't put a finger on exactly why. I just think the dynamic ability that he adds to the run game, you know, he's good to taking care of the football. Like those are the things I find more attractive about Taylor than I think I would with Cousins. Yeah, I don't blame you at all. I think that I probably lean that way as well. Also, Cousins is going to be 29.

He's not a spring chicken. No, these guys are not that young. I mean, like, he's like exactly a year younger than me. It's like, I don't think that I'm like some promising thing. I got, you know, it's pretty sure we, you know, we're getting to where we're going. It's, I don't have that much love in the tank. I'm not sure Kurt Gutt does either. So it's like, it's like in wedding crashes where they're sitting on the front.

He's like, couple of young kids running around. He's like, we're not that young. Yeah. So I don't know. Oh, God. Yeah, and that's the thing. I mean, it's, you're not, you're paying. for a guy who is probably is, he is what he is and he, you've never, you're not going to see him in

any of these situations. He's not going to be in as good of a situation as he was in Washington. Like say he does hit the market. Say he comes to Chicago or say he goes to San Francisco, like people have been saying that, you know, Shanahan wants him. That's, you're starting over in San Francisco. There's literally nothing to work with in San Francisco. Right. You have Tori Smith and I don't know who else, Quentin Patton, you know what? I, I just like, DeAndre, what's that guy? his name, Smelter. I can't, I can never remember his name. I don't think he's played yet.

I know it's Smelter. I think it's Yonre Smelter. DeAndre Smelter, yeah. DeAndre Smelter, good for me. So, yeah, like, that's what you're dealing with. It's, you're not dealing with Deshawn Jackson, Pierre Garsohn, Jordan Reed, and, and then even a guy like Jameson Crowder.

I mean, he has four receivers that are probably going to be better than the best receiver on some of these teams he can go to. Like, I think about the Bears. I don't, if Alshon Jeffrey leaves, what's happening? It was Cameron, Meredith and I guess Kevin White's like it's, we're so close to the time where it was Alshan Jeffrey and Brandon Marshall. It's so recent in my mind. And it's just gone so far the other way. So it's not as if you have a guy that's like, oh, he's going to be fine.

We can build around him no matter why. You've seen him succeed in the best possible scenario. And now he's probably going to go to a scenario that if it's not the worst possible one, it's definitely a downgrade from where he is now. yeah and i'm sure i mean i'm sure that's how washington's looking at this like you know it's not they would have locked him up i think by now if they were sold on him as as a franchise player and so i think i mean it's clear that they're just not really sure but what to think of him yet yeah the whole the funny i keep thinking of like the how do you like me now thing that he did to scott mcclwin during the season you remember that yes i loved it so much i just keep

keep thinking like he's like that probably about the same like that's like I was thinking like I mean it is that hasn't really changed honestly so um I don't know it'll be really interesting to see what happens with him but I think it's kind of a foregone conclusion that he'll be with the with the resins this year and then from there who knows but I think he's valuable just because he gives Washington a lot of flexibility flexibility flexibility and stability I think those are two things means he allows them to move on and after this season if it doesn't work out but he also you keep continuity you have a guy that has been in that offense he knows it he succeeded in it so that's what you're paying for and i don't blame them for doing it i just think that it's a tough spot

i mean it's tough spot for him too i know it's nice to make 24 million but if he gets hurt it doesn't matter that's that's your 24 million and that's all so it's a tough thing i mean two years a row in the franchise tag you get paid a lot of money but you also there's not much security beyond that at all absolutely not I mean, yeah. And so, I mean, honestly, though, there's not a ton of stability in many contracts. So I don't know. That's true. That's very true.

I mean, that's a good point. It's like you're getting maybe one or two years less guaranteed than you would have otherwise. But it's still just knowing that this is it. I can't imagine that's easy. Although it's probably easier when you're making the $24 million, like I said. But all right. So let's move on. Just kind of the guy that is a little bit younger, is the guy that he could be there for a while

that you could really build from scratch with. And that's Carapol. and it's so you know we're talking about value here and what teams we want to give up and it sounds like the Patriots want what the Bradford package was or like that's the starting point we want a first and maybe something else to kind of sweeten it a little bit and that's a lot that's a lot to give up and I think that when you're looking at what Minnesota did Minnesota made a move it was a desperation move I mean when you're making that deal in August it's much different than making it in March and that's the thing that's why you have to give up a first thing that's why you have to give up a

and afford for Bradford in that moment because you're you're acting you're operating from a point of total disadvantage if you're the Vikings in that scenario. I mean, it was like a week before the season. Yes. And right now, if you're Chicago or if you're San Francisco, you don't have to do that. You can go draft the quarterback. You can wait. If you're in Cleveland, it's like, oh, well, who cares?

We'll be bad again this year. You don't have to make a move just to make a move. And I think that's why saying, well, Bradford got a first. and a fourth just doesn't make sense because it's not the same situation. Yeah. The Grafellow thing is really sort of

it's confusing. Well, it's just like there's so many variables right now that kind of like make it. Like obviously he's low, he has all the look of like a franchise quarterback. He's got so handsome. Well,

obviously there's that too. And so I think it's like you have to weigh the the variables really carefully because one, you know, that's a lot to give up for a guy. Plus, he's going into the last, you know, year of his contracts. You don't have like two or three years to kind of figure out what he's going to give you.

Like, you have to kind of start. You either have to trade for him and then, you know, give him a new contract or, or start thinking about it pretty quickly in this season. Obviously, I guess you could franchise tag him, kind of do the Kirk Cousins thing too, and that's fine. But, you know, he's just one. He, he don't have a lot of club control over him. So that's a major fact.

The other thing is he is just so unproven. Obviously, you look at what he's done in the small sample size, and that's great, but can he do that over a whole season? You don't really know. Now, on the other hand, I actually kind of maybe like the option of Garoppolo

more than like signing a guy to a contract when he's unproven just in free agency, because if you walk away from this, it doesn't totally fuck up your cap. like what Osweiler's doing in Houston. You know, like he limits their ability to basically do a lot of stuff because,

you know, his contract is guaranteed through all the way through this year. And then, you know, they're still going to be taking a cap bit if they release him after next year. So I mean, I don't know.

If they walk away from, if you walk away from Grappalo and he's a total flop, like you can basically just look at it like, well, that was a flop on our first round pick and move on. Now, obviously that's not ideal. But it doesn't, fuck up your cap.

So there's kind of just a lot of... I imagine, though, that any team that trades for him will sign him to an extension. Like immediately? That would, I would not be surprised if that happened. Yes. No,

I wouldn't be surprised either. Yeah. You're not going to give up a first round pick for a guy that's a one year rental. If you give up a first round pick, you think he's going to be around for a while. Like, that's what you're doing. I can't imagine a team would just trade for him and say,

well, if this doesn't work out, then we'll move on. I would imagine that a team will sign him when they, when they trade for him. That's just, that's how I see it. it's probably true.

It's probably true, but like, I don't know how I would do it. Because if you don't, if he's great and then he can just walk away, that's the thing. You're not going to risk that. So if you think he's the guy, you're going to sign him.

So I think he is going to get that Osweiler contract. I really do. If he gets traded, I think he's going to get it. And that's, but that's where we're at. Like, why,

explain to me why he wouldn't get that much, just like, if a team is signing him right now, if a team is going to extend him as soon as they trade for him, why would he get a cent less than, Oswald I got last year. If he had a bad agent, maybe. But yeah, no, he, I mean, there's no way.

That's exactly where the conversation starts. And so, I mean, you probably would. God, if he does, I mean, that just makes it so, so risky. I mean, I know that you have to kind of shoot your shot when it comes to quarterbacks in the NFL. And, you know, teams are made or broke by, you know, basically what happens with the quarterback situation, especially young and new, you know, regimes or whatever. Like, what happens that quarterback is the most important thing. you have to shoot your shot.

But God, that's putting a lot of eggs in one basket for a guy who, what is it, like 94 total snaps or something like that. Yeah, 63 pass attempts last year. If you told me right now, the Bears will trade their second round pick this year, the 36 pick, their second round pick next year, and they will give Garoppolo the Osvala contract. Would you do it? Yes.

Okay. I would have a first round. That's the third overall? No. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. Fair. That's, that's, and here's what I wrote today.

The second round pick is mild. That 36 pick in last year's draft was Miles Jack. The third pick was Joey Bosa. That's like, those are the players you're giving up with a third overall pick. You don't do that. Even if you're finding a quarterback, you don't do that. Because it's another, the other thing is that it's not just saying, oh, well, you know, Jimmy Garoppolo would just be our first round pick.

That's how we'd have to look at it. You're paying Jimmy Garoppolo $18 million next year if you give him the Osweiler deal. You're paying your first round pick that's third overall, what? Two? I mean, you get five years of a rookie deal. It's not the same. It's not a one-for-one trade-off. So you have to take that into account.

That's also why I think it's easier to do it as a second round pick because you don't have that fifth year. I mean, it's little things that you have to do to convince yourself to do big moves like this. But those are the tiny like bits of convincing that I've done over time. It's like, you know, yeah, I've been willing to do that because you need to find a guy. And I do legitimately think he's good. I think he is going to be a good starting quarterback

and I think that if you also believe that you have to give up that much for him. Yeah, and I mean, I think when you're talking about the one-to-one thing, like I don't think this is a one-to-one comparison with Osweiler because Garapolos looked significantly better than Osweiler ever did for the Broncos. And so, I mean, it's definitely not the same thing. I mean, it's kind of, I think the Osweiler thing is the most recent kind of just

swinging a miss when it comes to you know like a team just taking a big risk on a guy but i mean grew up those looked significantly better than than osweiler ever did and so it's it was really not surprising that oswald of struggle i mean it was like he basically looked the same in in denver so it's it's a different it's not the same thing obviously so i mean i agree with you i think if you get the the two seconds is definitely a lot more palatable um than you know a first and something else so i mean he's Hey, I think it'll probably, do you think, what do you think the odds are that it will happen, like, with any team?

I think it's good because I feel like the Patriots are just, it's bullshit what they're saying right now, what they're trying to put out there. You're not going to let that guy walk away for nothing if you can get a second round pick for him or two. Like this idea, like, oh, we'll hold on to him. No, you won't because you have to pay him next year. You're going to pay him, but do you have that much of a hold on players in New England that you can say, oh, come back for backup money, Jimmy,

even though you'll get the Osloid if you walk away. Like that isn't Julian Edelman taking a couple million dollars less to come back to New England. Right. That is a different like stratosphere of contract. So I just can't imagine that they're going to hold on to him this year and just let him walk away for nothing next year when you can get a lot for him in a trade right now. That just doesn't make sense to me. No, they're just playing hardball right now. I mean, that's like this is like, you know, the, this is how it works.

Like you say, oh, no, we really want him. we can't we can't stand to leave with them unless we get something huge and then you know see what happens but I think it'll get traded to I think you'll get traded too I can't wait to find out where it goes man because that's I think that's going to be one of the most interesting offseason sort of storylines is like is this guy the next you know sort of franchise quarterback

and is he going to take someone his new team like over the top and the bears get to get Carapolo the defense gets healthy they draft a corner you know like a mid tier wide receiver You're like, let's, let's go, man. I don't like that. This team, this team could win like eight games.

Like, let's do this. I love it. My standards have just gotten very, very low. I know I was expecting you to say something not like the playoffs. You're like, this team could win eight games. Let's get to somebody that I can't imagine. I can't. It's shocking to me the fact that his name is brought up in this.

way and you wrote about him in the same way a lot of other people have like do we really think a j mccaren is like somebody people should want and maybe i just totally misconstrued my couple games of a j mccarrant last season or two seasons ago personally i'm not high on him as like i wouldn't want i'll put this way i wouldn't want my team if they were out a quarterback to give up a lot of money to get him or a lot of picks to get him but i think in terms of i mean again it's the value question like if you can get him for a couple of mid-round picks or just a player swap, someone like kind of towards the end of their contract

or something like that where it's not like you're giving up a first round or second-round pick. Then maybe I'd pull the trigger and kind of see what happens. But, I mean, I'm not like so on the farm for him. I think he's probably a guy who has an upside as a solid mid-level starter

and that's what you're hoping for. See, here's my problem with that though. This is that quarterback purgatory thing. I mean, you said the teams, like, but they like his value more than Garoppel. You can get him for cheaper. Like, you shouldn't buy a $60 couch. You know, like, there are some things that you should actually spend a little bit on. Like, it's, I understand, like, finding value and trying to spend less money on things.

But there are some things that you should just pay for. Like, and a quarterback is one of those things. Is that an ancient proverb? You shouldn't buy a $60 couch. It's like that third, the 30-rock thing where Jack has no idea how much things cost. Like, say, say your grocery concierge goes to the grocery store and buys a bag of potatoes for, I don't know, $500. Oh, God. You shouldn't buy a $60 couch.

That's just, that's wisdom to live by. And I think that you shouldn't say we can only give up a seventh round pick for this quarterback. So let's get him instead. I mean, yeah, I'm not going to, I'm not like on the McCarran train necessarily. It was actually, it's just, I think it was interesting because, um, Daniel Jeremiah from the NFL network wrote about how, you know, you talked to a couple executives. And I think the Karen's name came up a couple times just based on the value.

He's going to be less than Garoppolo. And maybe it's a comparable somewhere in the same region of, of like what you're getting. I don't think that's necessarily true. But I guess there might be their sort of prevailing thought around the league that that's what's happening. So I personally don't. There's going to be some GM, man.

There'll be some GM that just sitting there rubbing his hands together, being like, I fleeced him. I got six-round pick for AJ McCarron. We did it. And his team is going to win seven games. The Bears are going to be one game better next year. I just think Mike Brown,

that's the owner of the Bengals, Mike Brown, right? Yeah. I think he's probably going to be like a bastard about it and would only want like a first round pick. So I don't think McCarran's going to get traded. So, I mean,

it's probably a moot point. But I did find an interesting kind of just in researching some of the, quarterbacks that are sort of being floated as trade candidates and mccarran was sort of high on that list and i don't know i hit you know his play in the fourth quarter of that playoff game and then just those overall sort of um efficiency in his other games in 2015 when he took over for dalton late in the year i guess it probably raised a few eyebrows and like maybe this guy's not as bad as everyone thought but i still i i personally wouldn't like endorse my team going out doing

that if they needed a quarterback. Go nuts with the eyebrows, guys. Because if we're looking at AJ McCarion, it's a similar situation to what we're talking about Cousins. That 2015 Bengals team was stacked. Oh, yeah. I mean, the Mohammed Sunu, you have Marvin Jones,

you have AJ Green healthy, you have Tyler Eifford, who was there for almost the entire season, get a line playing fantastic. Droughton was a top five, top four MVP candidate until he broke his thumb. That team was rolling. They were number one in passing DVOA.

And they had two good runs. running backs too. Yes. So, AJ McCarron are looking okay in that scenario? Yeah. Go ahead. You live your life with AJ McCarron.

I do not understand that whatsoever. No, that's exactly. That's exactly right. Like, he was in the perfect scenario in terms of the complete, you know,

infrastructure around him to succeed. Like, it was like one of the most talented offensive skill position groups in the NFL. Great line. Like they gave up the few of sacks, I think, in the NFL that year, right?

And so I, I mean, yeah, he was perfectly set up for success there. And I think if you're going to ask him to carry an offense somewhere else, it's going to be completely different, different look. So yeah, I'm with you on that one. And then your next tier there, we'll talk about this a lot over the next couple months,

just the idea of a rookie, you know, a guy you'll draft in the top five or so. And what that is. And there's a couple things that are nice about that. One is cost. And there are a couple things that are nice about that, the opportunity cost of using a top three pick on a guy that could be Jonathan Allen or Miles Garrett and that kind of thing.

That's difficult to do. So I think that you're, there's two things, the ways to think about it. It's one that we need a quarterback. This is a relatively cheap way in terms of money to get one. And two, we shouldn't be over anxious. You know, like the Browns last year, they traded down a bunch. The 49ers did not go get a quarterback. I think these teams said, we know we're not close enough.

Let's not make that swing when we know there are other assets to get with these picks. So that's the decision a team is going to have to make. This, I mean, just in like the big picture, team building is so fascinating to me because like, do you prefer a situation where you're going to build a really, really strong roster and then add in a young quarterback to and basically have the, you know, just the players around him that makes his life as easy as humanly possible for a quarterback in the NFL. obviously quarterback is like one of the hardest positions in any of sport in any sports but I think I mean I just think of like the the Cowboys last year with that guy like he was put into an amazing situation he had an amazing season but that kind of shit doesn't happen every year because a lot of the time you're taking a quarterback early on it's because your team around you sucks and so you're asking him to carry the offense and it's a totally different you know just just a

totally different landscape so I don't know I it depends on how how people see it. Obviously, at some point, you have to get a quarterback, and so you can't necessarily, you know, wait for next year all the time. But I personally like the idea of, I mean, if you're going to just have a philosophy of like building up the team around you before you go out and get that guy and potentially ruin his confidence. You know what I mean?

Like, I just, that makes more sense to me. If you look at what has happened in the last couple of years, we've seen more non-first round quarterback succeed in the last five years. than we ever had like previously combined. I mean, look at Derek Carr, look at what Dak Prescott did, Russell Wilson. There are more and more guys that are doing this.

And I don't know what the reason is. I kind of want to find out. But it's, I don't know what the reason is, but it is happening. So I think it's much more palatable to say, fuck it. Let's take a guy in the third round.

Because it's not, if it doesn't work, it's easier to live with it than it is drafting guy in the first round. And it doesn't seem like, and this is probably, wrong. This is short-term thinking. It's recent he biased, the idea that, well, there's an

even chance the third round guy will hit, so why not take him the third round? That's not true. Like, there's a reason the guys that top still work out, but I do think that we've reached a point where it's not like you have to go get one of the guys anymore. I think that is changing. Even if it's slow, even if we are

a little bit clouded because of what's happened just right now, I think that it's not the same thing anymore. You don't have to go get a guy in the top three. Yeah, I think it's just a really, really fascinating just overall discussion of like how the sport is going. Yeah. I mean,

yeah, I'm completely with you. I just think it's, it's a, it's a big picture philosophy thing is like, do you, do you build, like you said,

I mean, do you grab a guy early on? That'll be like a Joey Bosa and be like a cornerstone defensive player for you superstar. And then hope to, you know, hope that you find some other guy in the second round or third round. I mean,

it's kind of an age old question, but like with the success. that they've had lately. I think before Russell Wilson, there was like only Drew Brees was the only guy that had ever had success outside the first round. Like, I mean,

that's not true, but like something like, it's really, it was really, really, really, really rare to find anybody, I mean,

other than like Tom Brady outside of the first round. And now there's, it's just they're popping up everywhere. It seems like it, though. And I think it only seems like it because we never had any before. So I think that's why like, I have to even tell myself,

like pump the brakes a little bit, maybe. like this is not what you think it is. So that's the thing. But I do, there are, you're right. And that list is like Drew Brie's end of list.

You know, Dalton has had a nice career and like Kaepernick had his moment. But for the most part, you just don't find guys like that. And we are finding more of them. So it is interesting. All right. But we're going to talk about that stuff,

again, ad nausea for the next couple months. Just the idea of rookies and this class and finding value and all that kind of stuff. That's going to be the conversation as we give to the draft. So for now, let's get into maybe something that's not as, exciting, but something that's a little bit more relevant as we currently stand. And that's kind of these veterans that may find a spot and a job depending on, you know,

who wants them. And that list as it currently stands and it's the way you rank them. You have Matt Moore first, Brian Hoyer, Jay Cutler, Colin Kaepernick, Mike Lennon, and that's about it. So, all right, walk me through this. Like, tell me about Matt Moore. Why Matt Moore? again it's a it's a hey look this isn't me saying these guys are amazing i'm talking about value um and as a bridge guy he's not even cuby purgatory uh you like area like he would be a bridge guy only um for you know it like say this is a team that you that's going to draft guy in the first round they probably need someone to play for a year or two because a lot of these guys are

very raw prospects and so he is i mean like he played honestly he played pretty well in relief of Brian Tannehill last year. He's been around the league. He's a smart guy. I don't know. It's not like I'm like banging the table for Matt Moore or anything like that.

But like if you can get him for like a mid round pick somewhere like that, like if they're willing to part with him for that, I mean, you could do a lot worse, honestly, just in terms of if you think about some of the freaking quarterbacks that started last year, like Blaine Gabbard, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Osweiler.

I mean, like, I think you could do a lot worse than Matt Moore. honestly at this point. So that was kind of like what I was looking at in terms of he's not going to cost you a whole lot. He's he's got some experience. He played pretty well last year. And I mean, he's a, he's a Brit. He can get you to someone, someone else. He can buy you a little with time. That's it. All right. Here's my argument. Matt Moore sucks. See, now, here's the thing. And this, this makes my point even more than it would have otherwise. Looking for Matt Moore's contract, the Matt Moore on the Giants comes up first. So I click the

wrong thing. Yeah, there's a baseball player. So Matt Moore, Matt Moore makes 2.1, he's going to make 2.2 million next year. That's doable. That's like, all right,

that's fine. I was going to say, if you're going to spend a third or fourth round pick on Matt Moore, just use a third or fourth round pick on a quarterback. Like, like pay the guys 600 grand and have. Are they going to come in immediately and be able to play for you? It doesn't matter to me.

I would rather just use that out of quarterback and say, maybe this will work, like rather than one year of Matt Moore for that third or fourth. I just wouldn't do that. But I think that if I'm looking at guys like that, if the Bears were to say, we're not going to go get a guy. We don't like any of these guys enough to pay for them.

We need just somebody to tide us over. I would do a lawyer for nothing for two years in a heartbeat. Yeah. Yeah. Just like, because he was fine last year. He was absolutely fine. And I wouldn't mind that at all. That is a fate I'd be more than willing to deal with.

The fate that I would not be willing to deal with. And again, this is out of play for the Bears. But what a team it thinks they might have to pay for Cutler. color will play again. He absolutely will start for somebody at some point. I just don't, it would not be my team. You've lived that. I just don't know who you,

I mean, there is, I'm just looking at it's like, oh man, just the Jets are calling. I mean, it's like, it's the idea that Jets just handing him like a reasonable

contracts come start for them. It'd be the most Jetsy thing. Oh, for sure. I would love it. Some team is going to do that. And I just wouldn't want to. I would,

rather go out and I'd rather have Kaepernick honestly. Just because there's a chance. Like why not take a risk on Colin Kaepernick rather than going and giving Jay Kuller probably more money than you'd have to give Kaepernick to be exactly what you think he's going to be? This is the way that I looked at it because I was trying to figure out why someone would want Cutler at this point. And the only thing I could come up with other than the fact that he's experienced is that

you might find some offensive coordinator who wants to be aggressive and who's very tired of playing a dink and duck play where he has to eliminate like half or more of his play sheet because this guy is too meek or unable to make throws down the field like we've seen that jay certainly isn't meek and that's like basically what i came up with in terms of like why someone want cutlers because he i mean he he he will play in an aggressive style of offense and i guess that's you know i mean you're have to live with all the other shit that comes with him like terrible turnovers and like just you know head scratching throws but like at least in this i mean i'm not like pushing for color or whatever but at least he's willing to like make those throws down the field and i think

some some coordinator is going to like that and think that he can kind of like rain him in in terms of other stuff so that's what i'm that's like and this is this section's called someone's going to talk themselves into it and that's exactly what it is like someone's one's going to say, oh, we can, like, we can work with his, with his, you know, black marks or whatever. We can work with those problems. And I feel like the exact same scenario is going on with Mike Glennon. The idea that some team is going to do it.

Some team is going to do it. Some team is going to say, this is our guy. I don't know. You know, he got beat out by Josh McCown a couple years ago, but this is our guy. I forgot about Glennon. I completely forgotten about him. I forgot he was a person until we started having this conversation again. Yeah.

Because that's the thing. Like some, I forgot he was a person, but some team will say, well, we got no better option, so let's go for it. Is he really going to be a starter this year?

That would be crazy. I'm trying to figure out who he would play for. I mean, I can see him as a backup, but I mean, you're right. I think someone is going to, you know,

take a risk on it because there's just so few guys, but, God, it's just hard to imagine. And that's the point where we've reached. I'm sure someone well, but it's just so hard to imagine. The quarterback story in 2017. All right,

I think that's all we got. But this is fun. Right now, this is the biggest conversation. Like, this is what is dominating at the moment because these are the players that people need and these are the names that are the most important in this off season.

There are certain bigger name free agents that are going to get a lot of money, but none of them matter more than the moves teams are going to have to make for these guys. So I think this was a good place to start. I mean, it's got yeah it's like quarterback is kind of defining position and and then you go from there so again it's kind of like doing these articles is really getting me excited about next year i mean it's

kind of like you take a few few weeks off to like decompress but it's like now you're starting thinking like just the the crazy shit that's going to happen again next year it's it's a lot of fun so yeah a few weeks off the super bowl was 17 days ago oh man and now the combine's coming up so No rest of the weird. I'll see you next week. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, definitely, man. All right, buddy.

That's all we got. Everybody, thanks for listening. We'll be back next week. As always, really appreciate it. Talk to you soon.