The Ringer NFL Show - Ep. 77: The QB-AP Carousel With Bill Simmons and Mike Lombardi

Episode Date: February 23, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons and Mike Lombardi discuss Adrian Peterson's future (6:00), under-the-radar teams for Romo (12:00), the next Dak Prescott (17:00), Jimmy Garoppolo trade destinations (21:00), and Patriots free agents (26:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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on Seekek.com. We are also brought to you by The Ringer NBA show. Oh yeah, there's a Ringer NFL show and a Ringer NBA show. The Ringer NBA show this week, we're just banging out the trade deadline and all that stuff. And I was actually on the Ringer NBA show this week talking about the Boogie Cousins trade because it was a massive trade. Very surprising. And it turns out the kings are bad at making basketball trades.

But we covered that. We covered some of the reasons why they did the things they did. And you can hear that on the Ringer MBA show. And obviously we were brought to you by the Ringer.com as well. That's where you can read my column. Every Friday, give or take a couple Fridays. Just about every Friday, you can read my column on the ringer.com and some other stuff, too. And we've had great stuff this week with the trade deadline.

Anyway, we taped, we wanted to tape something with Mike Lombardi because even though it's NBA trade deadline right now, there's a lot of sneaky football storylines coming up. So here's Mike right now. Right now, from The Ringer, one of our many NFL experts. And certainly the one that has my favorite pop culture references, Mr. Mike Lombardi. How are you? I'm great, Bill. Thank you.

How are you? We have a, there's a column coming up for the ringer that you wrote that has the best pop culture reference you ever pulled, and I'm not going to spoil it for the audience, but it's coming. Be prepared. Be on the edge of your seats for it. I want to do a quick run through just because, even though everybody is obsessed with the NBA trade deadline right now, and rightly so, I include myself. Me too, by the way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Philly's going to sit this one out until Brian Colangeloah comes out of his comb. So good luck to him. Good luck for the recovery. But this is a really kind of sneaky cool time right now for football because there's some storylines. They're under the radar. Everybody's focused on basketball and college basketball.

And yet there's a couple of big names that I feel like the dominoes are going to start to fall. So let's go through them one by one. Adrian Peterson, what happens? You know, he's got a roster bonus due on March the 11th for $6 million. Does anybody think he's the best? No way. Adrian Peterson's played 20 games the last three seasons.

I know he's been hurt. I feel the market because this is the hardest thing to do as a sports executive. You're not great anymore. Yeah. And you've got to go earn your salary. So I think this divorce is going to end kind of ugly for Adrian Peterson, unless the Vikings roll over and play dead and give him the money, which will never happen.

Oh, God. I think he's going to be a free agent. And then I think he's going to go down at Emmett, some remarkable things in terms of recovery from injury. But Mother Nature usually win. So let's go through this, the running back scale of when they change teams from a depressing standpoint. The depressing second team running back scale. Emmett on the Cardinals still hurts, and I'm not even a Cowboys fan.

It still hurts my feelings that it happened. Tomlinson on the Jets actually had a couple moments. Like that wasn't a bad signing. Where would you put Peterson between Tomlinson and Emmett? The problem with Peterson is if he was more effective in the passing game, Yeah. In his career, it would be dynamic. You could almost use him.

I mean, could you imagine this big guy coming out of the backfield and catching passes and making people miss? But that's not been as far. I think Ledanyan did exactly what most older veterans fade down the line. Yeah. And much gas left in a tank. And it would seem that if you have the pass catching ability, that is able to extend it a little bit too.

He could play a little third down and stuff like that. And he's not really that kind of a running back, you know. No. I don't know where he goes. and I don't know. I also, this is funny, but I think fans are smarter now too. I think it's harder to sell a splashy move like,

hey, we got Adrian Peterson to fans because fans are so educated now and following sports is a 24-7 thing and you have all these message boards and blogs and the internet and people would just be like, wait a second, what? We just signed that, what?

19 million for Adrian. What? Why? Why do we do this? I mean, the people that played a refinance, Anyway, you imagine they're not going to attend a press conference and say, oh, wow, we just signed them. This is great. And I think the Vikings, this is a hardest, you know, his better season in 2050. This is usually running backs.

That's why Zechio Elliott is playing. Because the life shelf of these backs are. And with all of that said, would you be shocked if Jerry Jones gave him a two-year deal for $12 million? Yeah, I would be because I think Jerry, I think somebody's keeping Jerry from going in the kitchen to cook late at night. Like, Jerry's not going to make the peanut butter and jelly sandwich at two in the morning anymore. think they've medicated him to where he can't do that. So the Vikings release Peterson, and a minute later, Jerry's son, Stephen, handcuffs Jerry Jones to the refrigerator, and he's not allowed to leave.

It's almost like a horror. It's like saw. He's just in the basement until Adrian Peterson signs. And then the next thing we'll see is an article that Peterson always wanted to be a cowboy since this time at Oklahoma. So then, you know, that'll be the sales pitch that follows through and try to generate some interest Where is he going to go visit? It would be dangerous.

Well, and also I think the running back position, as, you know, we have more and more seasons banked where you can just find any running back and throw them in and grab undrafted free agents and six-round picks. And there's a surplus. It reminds me of what the point guard position is like now in the NBA, where I don't understand why you would ever overpay a half-decent, mediocre or below-average point guard when there's always Yogi Farrell. is waiting to come up, you know? The Celtics had this guy, Demetrius Jackson, second rounder from Notre Dame, who's probably never going to play in the Celtics,

and at some point is going to be good on another team. They really like him. They don't have a spot for him. That's why I get confused. Like, I watched him be a player. He is. And then Yogi. I mean, I love Indiana basketball.

I watch every Indiana game. And I can't understand how Yogi wasn't, and I just felt like, you know, you just don't know me. But like, look, themselves, and they get a big time running back. Right. You know? Yeah.

All right. Romo. What's the leaders? Give me the leaderboard right now. I would say, you know, I think there's going to be some sneaky teams in the Romo thing. I think there's going to be a lot of back-channeling. Alex Smith is 32 years old. Alex Smith is 32 years old.

Would the Jets take them? I don't know. I think there's some teams that are sneaky around Romo that might not really, might be really interested. What's a good? I think Houston and Kansas City, to me, should be the teams that have the most interest. What is the perfect Alex Smith? team just out of curiosity.

Kansas City, Andy Reid's managed him and he can't win a playoff game with him. Is there an owner out there that is enamored with 15 play drives for 70 yards that end up in a field goal? Is that owner out there? No. You know, look, I think Alex Smith has

done a great job of taking some of the heat off his career, but he's really a dressed-up Andy Dalton. Oh, I don't know who that's more insulting to. I have to think about it. I'm going to mow it over a little bit more. I mean, that's really your dream scenario, right? It's like a three-teamer where Romo goes to KC,

Alex Smith goes to Cincinnati, and Andy Dalton goes to, like, San Francisco. Right. And then you just cross three teams off. Or Andy Dolk goes to the Jets, and the Jets think they've got things turned around. You know, because, look, remember, when you're the Jets and you've watched four really bad quarterbacks,

everybody looks good to you. Yeah. I got to be honest, you know, Romo got an incredible amount of media attention during the preseason and the, actual season. Way more than he should have gotten for somebody who, as soon as Dak Prescott reached week nine, Romo is not playing.

I actually don't think he's getting enough attention now. We just watch this playoffs where it's like if you don't have an elite quarterback, you're not winning the Super Bowl. There's a certain level you're not going to be able to get to. And I think Romo is as good as Ben Rothesberger, if he can stay in the field. Right. The problem with Rombo is the same problem with the. discussion we have with Peterson. I mean, he's sitting there. He's played 20 games in the last three

seasons. He looked great, though, in that one week 17 drive, that touchdown drive, I thought he was really, that meaningless game. He looked good at practice. I mean, I don't think there's any doubt. Now, the problem's going to be can he withstand a hit? Can he handle it? But I think I would take a, I would take a chance on Romo, knowing that he's trying to get himself in shape and he's done a better job, thinking that I'm going to get the same guy. I think Romo has a year left in him. I'm I'm sure Peterson does. I would. I think I agree with you, Bill.

I think when you look at the league and you see the – I mean, you put Romo on that field with Houston, and that's a better game against the Patriots. That's going to go down to the wire. I actually think we potentially could have lost that game with how bad the Pats played in the first half. If Houston had a real quarterback? Oh, my God.

There was throws. If you go back and really study that tape, there's throws that Romo would have made in there that were guys open. I mean, he would have brought in life to a bunch of other players. on the Houston's team. Yeah. And I just think to me, and that's why I say it's sneaky, because there's teams that see this.

It's like it's easy to say you're not interested in Romo because you have a guy, but deep down, you know you are. Like, they had an opening. But Jim Harbaugh was rumored to be interested. Remember, he flew out to see Peyton and spent time with them and all that? You know, and they were coming off a time where they didn't pretend. I think that he has one really good year left in him. And I'll tell you, if I was Romo,

I would be flying to Brooklyn, Massachusetts, and spending 24 hours with Tom Brady and finding out everything he's doing. And just be like, what should... So you're telling me, just pliometrics, I should go to bed at 8.30 at night. Tell me your diet. I'll do...

Like, just emulate every single thing he's doing because as these guys get older, it's the recovery time becomes harder and harder. And here's Brady going, yeah, I just played the Super Bowl. I got hit 28 times. I felt great on Monday. I would want to be emulating that guy.

Yeah. So play two more years. You know, Romo doesn't want to go out playing five games in the last two seasons. I don't think that's the way he sees his career. And I think he could certainly come back and play one year and really give a team a spark. I mean, look, you put a good quarterback on most of some of these teams. You know, even you put a good, what happened there. Wow.

I mean, what a world that would be? Yeah. You might as well just have asked me what would be like with a different president. My head's spinning. I can't even think of it. Are we sure JJ Watts? on the Texans this season? Well, I think JJ Watts, another guy that's going to have to come over,

overcome some injuries, get his body back. There's a lot of things that JJ White has to do, but they were playing good defense without JJ. I know. I know. Played really well. Yeah. This is a team that if they could fix their offensive line and fix their to sign the

cornerback, but they're good on defense. They have continuity on defense. I think they're a good team that just is one quarterback away from really taking them to the other level, or else they're going to be eight and eight again, no matter if they play the heist, because they'll have good, weeks and bad weeks. When you're one quarterback away, you're not in the conversation. You just, you're just not.

I mean, we can just make the list. But, like, here are the teams that can win the Super Bowl this year, and all of them are going to have a good quarterback. I wonder, you know, looking at Pittsburgh and the way Rothesberger played the last couple months, if he's on that list anymore. I didn't like the way he played in November and December, and I didn't think he was good in the playoffs. I didn't think he had a great game against the pants.

And it didn't play well on the road all year. And it's kind of like, that's the hard. thing to see in an NFL player is they, but when you break Ben down, like, I kept Bell in the backfield, Angela Williams play well for him, I don't know, I think Ben's taking a lot of punches, I don't know how much he's got left in terms of taking those punches. I'll go further. He had the best running back in the league and he had the best wide receiver in the league. Like, those are facts.

It just wasn't the same Ben Rafflesberger year that you're, you know, I mean, you just think about it. They just didn't play well on the road. And he gets hurt again. You know, he's missing. Lowest yards per a team. He's gone way to, you know, that's significant, especially when you have guys that you believe can play, you know,

can make plays down the field. Kaepernick, is he starting for a team this season? You know, this is the biggest joke to me in the league right now. It's Kaepernick wants to meeting with the 49ers. I'll tell you what's going to happen with Kaepernick. He's going to be begging for a job in another couple weeks. Who's going to sign Kaepernick? Who's paying Kaepernick anywhere to watch

to watch Colin Kaepernick play that tells me, oh my God, he's really good. I mean, at least RG3, there was a... Pappernick's moment was with Harba. I mean, that became the story. When the story is, he's... Forget all that stuff. The player isn't playing very well.

Is there a way that he could play Dom Kaper's defenses every week for 16 weeks? I think that's the only way he's a starting quarterback at this point. It's curly in the boat. If he could find that, it's perfect for him. But even when he has those opportunities, I mean, poor Chip Kelly, one year, he's out of football. He bought into it. I know this for a fact. I mean, there's people in the 49er organization that thought

Christian Ponder was the best quarterback on their team. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's true. You've studied this draft and you're checking it out and you're doing all your due diligence on it. Is there a quarterback in this draft that could be the Dak Prescott? I can't believe this guy's starting and playing well guy in 2017. It doesn't seem like it, right?

No, it doesn't. You know, and I think that, you know, the thing that bothers me about this draft is two coaches who I respect. Dab, Stabbo Sweeney, and Nick Saban. Sean Watson's one of the best players he's ever played against in his career. Yeah. And I think the Sean Watson, his accuracy is not what it needs to be. It's a little Cam Newtonish.

But if there's a way to got to make a play, he's the one guy. He's played a lot of football. And I think he's going to be the intriguing guy in this draft. Who would you compare him to? Cam. I think he's like Cam. Yeah, but Cam was the first pick in the draft. It would have to be somebody that was, you know, more of a...

sleeper who got downgraded for some reason. When you talk about, I think Dak Prescott got downgraded because of some things he had a DUI in the spring last year, but he's higher profile than Dak would be. But to me, it's a little bit like, this guy's got too

much skill, and I look, I want quarterbacks who can throw the ball through the keyhole. I don't want quarterbacks who are just going to be able to get it through the door. But he can do some things that are unique in terms of his foot. So you're thinking Kyle Shanahan, he's got the second pick and the 30 third or 34th pick, 34th, I think. I'm thinking maybe he could be there.

If they thought he had the intangibles to go with it, which RG3 was really never good on those, that stuff, that I think they think maybe they think they could make him a player. I mean, we're reading now where Tyrod Taylor and his time in Buffalo isn't coming to an end. Well, yeah, you know why? Buffalo's looked at the market and said, you know what? Taylor's not perfect. Yeah, I think Taylor, I think he's worth another year.

I was always kind of afraid of him with the Pats. And, you know, he had bad luck because Sammy Watkins could never stay in the field. He had a different coach almost every year he was there. You know, he had, I don't know, he's cold weather. You could make a case for me with Tyrod. I'm not against him. Tate, do you like Watson? Tate likes Watson, Lombardi.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of people that like Watson. I think Watson's the kind of guy that the more you watch he grows on you. And instead, it's a piece of scouting. You know, you have four kind of scouts. You have the first scout. He's a poor scout. The second scout is a production scout. The third scout is the picker, the guy who picks on one thing.

And the fourth scout is the projection scout. And I think where Watson gets confused a little bit here is a lot of people are picking on some things, me included on his accuracy, and they don't use. Well, you know how I feel about the QB position. I've said it a million times. I think it's 80% charisma and intangibles and guts and just being able to lead men. and we saw him do it, you know, and he does have athletic ability. And he did it.

And I think you have to, and I say this all the time, you have to have, you design your team around his strengths. Yeah. So if you draft Watson, then you know, you don't, and have a deep feel to the right side. You've got to decide. Well, that leads us to our last guy we had, talked about Jimmy Garoppolo, whose people are writing about all the time. Had a bunch of pieces, even on the ringer. Roger Sherman, are we sure he's good? He's only throwing 94 passes.

very fair question to ask you know he he he kind of had the two really impressive starts and then got hurt and it was almost like dropping the mic you know what if he had gotten annihilated in week four against Buffalo um he don't know to get annihilated well I'm just saying what if what if you'd had a bad game too good of a like I've watched this guy practice and play for too many practices this guy's a good player yeah and I'm not shilling for Belichick, I'm not trying to get them more of a draft pick because, look, I know this player. This player is really good. This player could, if he played in San Francisco or if he went to Houston, if Houston, now,

we were in the draft room, and we thought Houston was going to pick him with their high pick in the second round. Instead of they picked that guard from UCLA. But if Houston turns in Garapolo's name instead of the guard from UCLA, it's a whole different ball game. I'm telling it. You know, I mean, people could say, oh, don't, I'm telling it, he's worth, I was in New day. There's no way we can trade them. I know you got Brady. But Brady's 40 years old. We don't

know where that's going. There's going to be great. Just like it's going to be the second coming of, I mean, do you realize Bill Belichick at 31 was coaching linebackers at the Giants? I feel bad. If you realize, Frank Popovich at 31 was the assistant coach at Pomona Pitzer? I mean, what's the history behind it? That's the point about Brady. There's no history behind 40-year-old quarterbacks. Now you're bumming out. Tate. Tate felt like he was doing really good. Tate's only 24. 31,

seven years from now. Tate thought he was going to be a star in seven years. Now he's like, now he's kicking himself. I think, here's what I would say about Garapolo and I'm a gigantic Homer.

I was so impressed by how, not only how he played in those games, but how his teammates responded, reacted, pulled for him. Everything they said on and off the field, everything they've said for the last five months, just seemed 100% genuine to me.

to a man, everyone around this guy thinks that he's a really good quarterback. And I don't know, I don't think you can fake that after a while. It's just, it's been too prevalent, too prevalent the last five months. You walk off the practice field in New England and people are shaking their heads like, man, that guy's good. Ask any player who leaves New England. You can just randomly call a guy.

Pretend you work for Sports Illustrate. You want to do an interview. That's what I used to always do. He had somebody pretend. Yeah, he did. He would always have somebody to drill him on the player, you know? Wow. Like, what do you think about this guy?

What do you think about that? It's a great idea, right? Call up any Patriot guy. Pretend you're working for a USA today. You want to scoop. You know, you're the new Rudy Martsky. You need a scoop. So then you ask him, what's Carapua?

I'll tell you's great. Yeah. Listen, I think he's worth at least a 12th pick. Because there's a body of evidence, and if you do your homework, you'll know, like, you know, there are real reasons why this guy should succeed. Now, you could put him on the wrong team with the wrong coach and no skill position players and no offensive line and he's going to suck like anyone else would suck in that situation. But, you know, I think if he goes on the right team, the team that I think should trade for him is Houston. And I actually don't think Belichick, I don't think he would trade him to Houston because I think he knows Garapolo's good.

I don't think he wants to put Jimmy in a situation where he could potentially beat the Patriots in a playoff game, you know? No, Donnie Walsh told know exactly what he is. I think Bill knows exactly who Jimmy is, and I think that's why he wouldn't trade him in Houston. Right. He knew exactly who Matt Castle was, and that's why he let him go to Kansas City. Bledsoe's a better example.

Right. He traded Bledso in his division. He's like, screw it. Go ahead. I'll play you twice here. I'll be fine. And he did it. I laugh at these people.

I think, Rob, oh, you know, No, no, watch the – ask anybody. Yeah. The guy's a really good player. And if you went to the lunchoff, take lunch hall after practice, Cropolo will be sitting with all the offensive linemen having lunch. Let's say Cleveland – yeah, that is true. The O. lineman loved him.

If Cleveland gives him the 12, how many times does Belichick go backwards with 12? Three? See, and you're asking me about a trade. Trades only mean something when you can put a name of a player off. that's Miles Jarrett, okay? Then you could put a name. Would you trade Garoppolo for Miles Jarrett? What, 12, what would you trade them for?

If you're saying 12 and moved down, you're saying a bunch of players, you just don't know who those players are. That's where, you know, Jerry Wells, Jerry West talks about it all the time. Draft picks are fools gold. They have to turn into something. Yep. But Belichick has the best track record of anyone of parlaying one pick into five picks and then hitting a gold mine with a couple of them. Gropolo isn't worth the 12th pick. He's worth a multitude of picks,

which would be take the 12 and move it down. Right. Because the player you pick at 12, I don't think is going to be better than Jimmy Groplo. That's my point. Well, one of the trades Belichick loves to do, and I haven't seen this one thrown out there. And when I wrote about this, I didn't put it.

But he loves to do your second rounder this year and your first next year, and we'll give you this, and then we'll give you a third rounder next year, or something like that. He loves to get that future first rounder. And I wonder if maybe that's how the San Francisco thing plays out. That's called, how am I going to look in the year 2017 and 18? Most teams in the NFL, which means what's the best thing we can do right now?

Yeah. And that's where he takes advantage of the marketplace. He's one of the few traders in the market whose situational values and every, who's... Last two questions, then we have to go. Is Jimmy Garoppolo on the Patriots a month from now? Yes. Wow.

Okay. Is he on the Patriots three months from now? So you're saying no Garoppolo trade. I don't. Oh. I'm not saying this because I've talked to him about it. I know the feeling of it. Okay.

But I could be wrong. Wow. Surprised. All right. If he's not on the Patriots, what team do you think he would end up on? He would end up on would be San Francisco. Because I know for a fact. And then I left and went to New England, Kyle Shanahan, whom we hired.

All right. So I'm just going to make that work at huge money. And by the way, there's no offset clause in your contract. He gets all his money and can double dip, which is unheard of in the NFL. You mazzell, you might as well for the long play. All right. Mike Lombardi, your free agency comm is going up on the ringer.com later this week, and we have a whole bunch of other fun stuff playing for you over the next couple weeks.

I look forward to it. Yeah, talk to you soon. Thanks, Bill. Bye, Tay. All right, that's it for this special edition. of the Ringer NFL show. Thanks to Kevin Clark, Danny Kelly, and Robert Maze for letting me sneak on to their feed.

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