The Ringer NFL Show - Ep. 84: Brock to the Browns, Alshon Jeffery Is an Eagle, and the Insane Offensive Tackle Market

Episode Date: March 10, 2017

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Kevin Clark break down the Brock Osweiler trade (00:30), Jimmy Garoppolo's future (12:00), Alshon Jeffery going to Philadelphia (14:45), the New Orleans Saints' free-agency activity (22:50), the Russell Okung signing (27:25), and the return of Julius Peppers to the Carolina Panthers (35:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringer's gaming podcast, achievement-oriented, and our wrestling podcast, The Masked Man Show, are breaking off of Channel 33. You can now subscribe to each of them on iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud, or wherever you get your podcast. To The Ringer NFL show, my name is Robert Mays. I'm a writer at The Ringer. Joining me on the other lines. Kevin Clark, Kevin, how are you? I'm buried under news. I think we recorded an hour or too early yesterday.

That's going to be my stance on the whole thing. Wait till we could have gotten to everyone. Well, wait until we finish recording here and what happens after that, whatever it's going to be. So I think the reaction I had to the Matt Khalil trade has been something that people enjoyed over the last 24 hours. I don't know what would have happened if the Osweiler trade had gone on while we were live. And that was in front of a microphone. I think we would all be out of jobs. I didn't know what to say, really.

I didn't have, I thought it was, it was one of those things where I had to click on Adam Schaeffer's profile to make sure everything was real. Yeah, absolutely. No, I felt the same way. I was like, oh, this is definitely not real. And then I had to read it like seven times. It was, it was, I've had few fewer, fewer, more surreal experiences than that. So let's break it down.

I mean, you wrote about this yesterday right after it happened. I wrote about it today is kind of one of my five takeaways from the free agency opening because how could it not be? I mean, it's the most notable thing that happened yesterday and trade wise in a while. And this is slightly similar to what happened with DeMarco Murray last year. Teams giving up assets just to get rid of a guy. It's not, but not quite to this extent. Not with this big of a name. Not with this big of a failure. I feel like that's why it's even possible. Marco Murray was going to be a contributor and he was a contributor. Yes. The fact that they wanted

to get out of the Alspan deal so badly. I mean, I assume everyone listening to the show knows what happened. If you don't, I don't know why you listen to this show. But the Broward The Browns managed to trade. Could you imagine? Could you imagine just the person who just gets all their news from this show? It would be incredible. My mom. My mom listens to this show and has no idea what Brock Osweiler is.

That may be it. Yeah, my mother may be the one person and your mother, I guess. The two people in America who will find out about the Oslover trade from us. So the details are clear by now. The Texans give up a second round pick and Brock Osweiler and swap fourth round picks, correct? I have that right? Yes. And swap fourth round picks with the Browns.

Fourth and sixth, I thought. Excuse me. Fourth and sixth. For Brock Osweiler to get his contract off the books. For Houston, this makes all the sense in the world, right? I mean, you get his cap hit down from $18 million to $9 million. It frees up some space. It gives you a real chance to go after Romo.

And more importantly, it gets you out from under the black cloud that is Brock Osweiler. Yeah, once you have Brock Osweiler on your books, there's nothing you can do. We can make fun of the signing all we want. That's only going to accelerate when we look back on it. But it literally was a sign that was so bad and so devastating to a franchise that they essentially had to bring in NBA-style salary dumps. Normally, teams are able to get out of a contract every one year or to where it's not devastating to the cap.

But this was so horrendously bad that they had to get rid of a second round pick just to get rid of the salary. And so, yeah, for Houston, I guess you had to do it, but I also think that if you don't know for a fact that Tony Romo hasn't promised you basically that he's coming, I just don't know.

You're going to start Tom Savage for 16 games next year? Yes, absolutely. That's better than Osweil, in your opinion? It's not even that it's better than Osweiler. I just don't think you could trot him back out there for the PR elements of it. You also need to give yourself a shot for Romo. I feel like selling it as we have a chance

to go really chase Romo now and Osweil is gone. you pay that price. I understand that it's not value-wise the right choice necessarily, but I just think from every single optics angle and from the Romo angle, I would do this. Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, I don't know, I was just talking to Michael Lombardi and he was saying, you know, they really didn't like him as a person in Houston. Yeah. They really like, you know, he wasn't all that coachable, et cetera, et cetera. And so from a locker room standpoint, I guess they couldn't say,

by the way, he's our quarterback again. I understand that part of it. I just, I worry a little bit just in the sense that Houston is a ready-made playoff team. They made the playoffs last year with Brock Osweiler starting 14 games or whatever and starting a playoff game. I just worry that they're going to have a sort of a black hole at quarterback this year, and that's going to cost people with their jobs.

It may, but Brock Osweiler is a black hole. That's the thing that I don't worry about. don't think it's possible for Savage to be that much worse than Brock Osweiler. I really don't. Maybe those words will come back to bite me, but I just don't see a situation where he's so demonstrably worse that not paying, not getting the $9 million off the books that they did wasn't worth it. Yeah. No, I look, I generally agree with the move. I'm just saying you better have a plan. And the plan is probably to go try to get Romo. And I know it's going to be tougher now because you gave up an asset to get rid of Osweiler to trade for Romo. We'll see if the Cowboys eventually

blink. You know, that's the next big domino to fall is whether Dallas does eventually decide this isn't worth whatever peanuts we're going to get. Let's just cut them and move on. But it doesn't seem like they're doing that. Can someone explain me what's going on with Dallas? They're going to cut them. They're trying to get something out of it. I know, but they were going to cut them, but maybe they were going to trade him. Then it was, well, he was never going to get cut. What the hell? Just make up your mind, guys. This is fun that, you know, there was all that talk of. They're going to do right by Romo and everything else. I was like, no, you know what this business is?

Fuck everybody. I'm going to do what's right by me. They're going to trade him to the Browns to dump space. Yeah, I don't think they're trying to do right by anybody at this point. I mean, if they want to do right by them, they would have caught him four days ago. So they're trying to get something out of this. And it's hard to blame them. Maybe they're running a business, but all this talk about how much Jerry Jones loves Romo and everything else.

Like, okay. All right. This sounds good. Yeah, I'm sure that's going to end up mattering when these things actually start to fall. Well, not only that. Remember, the Cowboys launched their death. dynasty by basically ripping off a team for an aging veteran in the Hershal Walker, okay? That doesn't go away.

And so when you have an asset like that in your mind, I mean, when you have an asset like that, maybe someone will try to second round pick that turns out to be Michael Irvin. I don't know. I'm not sure. Second round pick still seems like a lot just because I feel like these teams are waiting. No, of course. I just, if you're Houston right now, obviously you just got rid of your second round pick to get rid of a horrendous quarterback.

but if you're Houston right now, aren't you going to panic? Aren't you like, we just made this move to get Tony Romo? We can guarantee ourselves Romo with a third round pick. You gave up your second round pick next year. I mean, you theoretically could trade your second round pick this year, which means you'd be trading two second round picks more or less for Tony Romo because you trade one to get the space to bring him in. You traded another to actually get him in the building.

If you're Houston, would you trade two second round picks for 37-year-old Tony Romo? I don't know. That seems like a lot. I would. I would have to think about it. I think you win the Super Bowl, man. I do too. I have said that.

We wrote this earlier this week. I think that they absolutely are the team that with Romo becomes real. That doesn't feel quite the same way to me with Denver. But we can talk about Romo when this actually starts to happen. Let's hit the Cleveland side of this Oswe, I would think. Yeah. So Barnwell did a good job writing about this yesterday. I understand a lot of the things he wrote, trying to figure out the actual value from the

picks that were moved. And more or less, it comes out to, say, the 64th pick in the draft when you consider the swap that took place. So at the end of the second round, is the end of the second round, a guy at that spot worth $16 million? The answer to that is no. But it also is something you have to take into account with the fact that the Browns have an endless amount of money.

I know it's not endless and I know the cap rolls over anything else. But at a certain point, isn't enough cap space enough? Well, yeah. Basically anyone can manufacture cap space now because everyone else has cap space so you can just dump contracts and other people. So I don't think there's any concern about cap space this year. That's what I mean. If you're the Browns, you've 102 million. They spend a bunch of it, certainly.

The money you don't spend rolls over where there's no salary floor to worry about. The salary for calculation starts this season and goes to the next three years. So that doesn't matter how much teams How much money teams spend this year? Also, who cares? Yeah, teams are going to hit the four. If in 20, but also if you don't, like in 2020, you're going to have to write a check.

Like, okay. To everybody else on your team. Yeah, it doesn't matter. There you go, guys. All that stuff is not worth considering. In my mind, it seems like a ton. And if Vosfather gets cut, he gets paid somewhere else. If he has offset language, then it becomes a little more palatable.

But even for the 16 in a vacuum on its face, it's like, eh, whatever. I don't mind it. I understand the thinking, and they're not going to spend all the money they have anyway. They're going to have cap space next year, a ton of it again. It's something that I understand the value doesn't necessarily line up one for one, but I don't hate it for either side. I agree with you. I agree with you. And I think that, you know, my question on this is now that we have this, now that we have this situation, now that we have this precedent, is this going to be a common thing moving forward.

The reasons we haven't seen it before is that teams are usually pretty cash strapped. There isn't this much space floating around for the most part. Teams don't have $102 million to work with. And by the way, you can usually get out of a deal pretty easily. And that's the other half of it. So that half is going to continue. The NFL is a place where you can get out of deals pretty quickly. There aren't that many awful contracts.

You look at what Jacksonville does every single two years. They sign deals. Some of them are bad. They get out from under them. We start over again. That's just the way the league works. That half will continue. The half where the cap space is going to be available.

is going to change. The space is going to be there in the next couple of years. So teams will maybe in a similar situation to what the Browns were in this year. So that half is going to be a reality of the league. But the other half is still going to be the thing that makes this stuff break down, is that you can get out from under without giving up assets and teams hoard these picks so much that it's not worth giving them up. I know people comparing it to Sam Hinky,

a second round pick in the NBA is not equivalent to a second round pick in the NFL. It was a two very different things. Yeah, no, I mean, exactly. And that's why I understand, but Hinky was getting first round picks. A lot of it, I mean, yes. Hinkke was getting lottery picks from the freaking Orlando Magic. That's fair. That is fair.

But team, I mean, draft picks in the NFL outside of the, draft picks in the NBA outside of the lottery and draft picks in the NFL in the first three rounds are viewed differently. I mean, they're just viewed as different quotes of assets. First three round picks in the NFL with the rookie wage scale, second round picks are so damn important. They're really important. They're very, very cheap. You can find stars in that round. You won't often find them. You're most likely going to find them in the first half of the first round, but you're more likely to find a star NFL player in the second round than a star NBA

player. I think that's pretty clear. Yeah, that's for damn sure. So the other side of this that I wrote about a little bit, other people were talking about if the Browns are gearing up for a Garoppolo trade, if they're trying to stockpile as much as they can to throw a monster offer at the Patriots, this is another second round pick. I tend to think that if they wanted to make that trade and if New England was willing to make that trade, they didn't need this. This isn't what's going to put them over the top for Garapolo, but it still is nice to have another two just in your back pocket.

Yeah, look, it's a win-win because either you have a second round pick or you have the ammo to get Garapolo. Adam Schefter said this morning, there's nothing the Browns can offer the Patriots that will get them, Jim and Garoppolo. Outside the number one pick, probably. Right, right. And even, I mean, I don't think. If you're in New England and you don't take the number one pick for Garoppolo, that's insane.

I don't know. I don't care how much you like him. Miles Garrett for Garoppolo. The only way you would do that, the only way you would pull a Patriots and say no to that is if you think Garoppolo will be as good as Tom Brady. And I don't see that happening. Yeah, that's a really bad bet. I've looked at Miles Garrett. I have stood 10 feet from him.

If you don't trade Garapolo for that guy, that's a mistake. I love Miles Garrett. I don't think that is actually a conversation. I mean, there's no possible way the Browns would do that. So I understand it. Because for five years of Miles Garrett under the rookie wage scale versus one year of Garapolo, you're going with Garrett. I mean, you absolutely are.

Yeah, of course. And then obviously, I mean, we should probably, it's obligatory to mention the weird Instagram situation with Garapolo today. Do we think it's just a buddy playing a prank? And if a friend of yours did that, would you be friends with that person anymore? I'd be furious. There's a couple things at play here. Number one is, I don't understand.

It's the same genre of person who creates fake people on Twitter. Fake people on Twitter. And I get them all the time. Like people are just adding me like, oh, I'm fake Ian Rappaport. I'm saying that, you know, Belichick's retiring. I don't really get that. they're trying to get attention and it's it's just kind of bums me out actually um i just i don't know i think danny kelly this week called them the worst kind of people i think i think they're

the nicest person in america i think there are worse people than the fake twitter people i think you meant the internet i mean i think you meant internet person but yes again worse people on the internet but uh yeah no no not not good people not great all right buddy i can't believe we found a group of people that dan and kelly doesn't like i know that's the incredible part of all of this. That's how much, that's, that's how bad these people are, just that Danny has a bad word to say about them. Wow. All right. Let's move on. A couple of signings that probably are at the top of everybody's list just in terms of the guys that were available. Alshan Jeffrey had not been signed by the time we recorded yesterday. He's going to

Philly on a one year deal. It's a $14 million, which, you know, no one should shrug at. But in my opinion, it's pretty good, pretty good value for Philly. So when you get, that's less than the franchise tag. And he's a guy that got franchised last year. He has that kind of talent. And for Philadelphia, in my mind, you get Tori Smith on what's essentially a one-year deal, only $500,000 of his $15 million is guaranteed, and you get Jeffrey on a one-year deal.

And the pairing those two guys together, with Sproles, with Ertz, with Ryan Matthews, an offensive line that I think is pretty dang good. They sign Chance Warmac either for depth or to push one of those guys on the inside this year. You look at that offense as a whole. If Wence takes a big, step forward and that defense can be what I think it can be, a team becomes pretty real in a

hurry. I just want to say, just as a broad team building thing, these one-year prove-it deals that a lot of these guys are taking are an incredible value for the team. 100%. Don Tari Poe, I don't know if you saw this, essentially is looking at a one-year deal to try to be a monster, go to a place where he'll be able to rush the passer a little bit more, get a couple of sacks and then maybe sign a mega contract next year. So the rumor this morning was that he was going to go to Atlanta. If you're Atlanta, hell yeah, I'll take on Terry Poe for what, 13, 14 million. Yeah, that's a great way. Way less. Way less. He gets single digits if he's doing that one year deal. I promise you that. That's because his market so depressed. He's not worth double digits.

I wouldn't do that if I were Atlanta. I would give him eight and a half million dollars for this season. And I would draw a line in the sand because I would say, you're clearly, you're clearly, not getting it from anybody else, buddy. I would just, the wiggle room there would not be very much. But if you're, if you were a team, here's the thing, though, if you were a, if I were a team, I would sign Don Terry Poe to $8 million over three, for three years. I signed to a $24 million contract over three years. I'd be fine with that.

He's not going to do that, though. That's the whole point. What? Because he wants 12 or 13 down the line. He got 12 or 13 down the line. I know, but if you did $8 million for one year. But if you say to him, here's $24 million, I think he might take that. I disagree.

Okay. Because that 24 million, how much is that guaranteed? 16 million? If he thinks he can get 12 million a year with a contract next year, he's not taking 16 million guaranteed over the next two years. Yeah, but there's no, if his market is as bad as you're saying, and Atlanta's really saying,

we're only going to give you $8 million, $9 million, then... But think about what you're saying with a $13 million. That's like the K-1 short franchise tag. Tontori Poe is not that kind of player. He doesn't give you that sort of value. He's not in the same stratosphere. As the shorts, the Cox is the sues.

But Kaywan, sure, when he comes available, is he going to get like $90 million. I think he'll get a contract, maybe a little step down from the Fletcher Cox deals. But those guys are making in the $17 million range, and they're an entirely different version of player. In my mind, there is no... Damon Harrison made $9.5 million on average

per season with his deal last year. Damon Harrison is 135% of the player that's Entiree Poh's. Probably true. But Damon Harrison's also just an incredible deal. Oh, I don't think it's an incredible deal. I think they paid the market. They paid the sticker price for a non-pass rushing defensive tackle. He's one of the best run stuffers in the league, if not the best.

Number one. Yeah. So just for comparison's sake, Brandon Williams is making a little bit less than $11 million a year in his extension from Baltimore. 27.5 million guaranteed. It puts him a little bit higher than Harrison. I think Harrison's a better player. I think Brandon Williams is a step down from Damon Harrison. and I think he's better than Dantari Po.

So I think that's... He's making $3 million more than my proposed three-year deal. Yeah, but if you're done Tari Po, I don't think you're taking that three-year deal. I think you believe you deserve a deal like this, but clearly he's not getting one. Maybe, yeah. I mean, I just, I'm saying if I were a GM...

By the way, I mean, how much cap money do the Falcons even have? Not a ton. No. I mean, so they may be even less than we're talking about for one. one year if he actually signs with the Falcons. If I were a G, all I'm saying is if I were a GM, I would find some value with all of the crazy contracts going around. I'd find some value to get Dantari Bo, Poe in my building for a deal that would be team friendly.

I think he would take it. Atlanta has $14 million in cap space according to over the cap. They need some flexibility, obviously. Yes. I mean, you will see. They don't have many obvious cuts. They're apparently negotiating a true font extension. so they don't have a ton of money to work with.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, this is the great Don Tarry Poe debate of 2017, just riveting. This is where we are, though. This is the second wave of a free agency. These are the conversations we have to have. Hopefully there will be a couple more newsy bits today. You know, I think Lombardi also tweeted today that Brandon Cooks, they want to make a decision today, what they're going to do with him.

I'm still curious all what's going to happen with that. I still think the Titans are the best move there. Taking the 18, I think if the tightens, You give up the 18. And I like a lot of the stuff that 10. All right. Let me be clear. I don't like a lot of the stuff on a value basis that Tennessee has been doing.

But Tennessee is getting better. They have gotten better in the last two days based on the signings they've made on defense. You're going to overpay in free agency. It's that's clear. But Jonathan Siprian and Logan Ryan are both pretty darn good players that are going to get overpaid, but they're going to make you better in those short term. Yeah. No, I, I agree with you.

I just, I think we need to recalibrate everything we think about free agency and value and all that. Because I talked to Les Need last week and he made a very funny point is that the market, we always say, oh, this player sets the market here. The market is now not a year-to-year structure. It's a deal-to-deal structure. And so I think that we have to, I think we look too much and we just sort of grade these things. in a vacuum compared to this player, this player, oh, you know. I totally agree. And I think we need to realize that the cap's going to be rising $10 million every year.

And it's basically, we're going to have to give a little distance before we start judging these. You know, obviously the Killil deal is so ridiculous we can make fun of it now. But there are some deals that we're going to look back and say, that wasn't so bad. I mean, the idea of Logan Ryan making $10 million a year, which again, I don't know the exact guarantees on that yet. I'm not sure they even come out. I like Logan Ryan. But it's $10 million a year.

I think he's a really valuable piece. And it's not $15 million. When you pay a guy that's not the best, best money, that's when I get a little bit worried. If you gave Logan Ryan a $3 million contract and you're giving him stuff on Gilmore money because you said we need a cornerback, I'm paying whatever it takes to get a cornerback. That's when I start to get worried. But there's no way that more than 50% of that Logan Ryan deal is guaranteed. Right.

I also think the Titans are going to be good this year, FYI. That's kind of what I'm saying is that their offense, let's play hypotheticals. Let's say the Titans, and they've been rumored that to be in play for Dante High Tower as well, let's say the Titans at Dante High Tower, Logan Ryan, and Jonathan Sipri under their defense. Let's say they make the Brandon Cook's trade, which is possible money-wise when you spend all that money on defense because Brandon Cooks is really cheap for the next two years. Yep.

Brandon Cook's on that offense, plus all the guys they would have, on defense, that team is, and especially if the Texas don't figure out the quarterback situation, that's the best team in the AFC South pretty definitively. Yeah, look, if Houston doesn't get Tony Romo, Tennessee is my odds on favorite. I like it. I mean, the Cook's trade just for me makes sense to them. I love the roster in Jacksonville, but you just, if Blake Bordle is their quarterback, I'm going to pass on that.

Thanks. So sticking with Cooks a little bit, the. Saints have made a bunch of moves in the last two days, some higher profile than others. They gave Larry Warford about the kind of deal I assumed he would get in the $8.5 million range, you know, near top of the market guard money, but not extreme. Lombardy loves that signing. I think it's really good. I think if you can get him at that price, it makes a lot of sense.

And let's talk about the Saints' offensive line for a second. You have left to right, Toronto Arnsted, Andrews Pete, Max Unger, Larry Werford, Zach Streif. Pretty good. I'm good to go with that, man. You got a running game to kind of take a little bit off a breeze as he gets older. Even if you get rid of cooks, I still like the passing options that they have. I think that Michael Thomas is a really nice player.

So, and they add Ted Ginnis that speed option. He's not as good as cooks, obviously, but it's just something you can pencil in. You're not losing and take the top off guy. So I enjoy it. I think that the teams bolster in their offensive lines. I wrote that this week. I think it's a safe way to spend in free agency. I think it's the best way to spend.

And what the Browns have done, what the Saints just did, I have no problem with that. How many years do we have to go where Ted Ginn is a viable option? Until he gets slow. Which is when? I don't know. I have absolutely no idea. He's been in a league for a decade now. He could never catch.

So that's not a concern. It's just when he gets slow. So history is not smiled upon the great should the dolphins, Ted Ginner Brady Quinn debate. Were you covering the team at that point? No. So I was a junior in college and I started covering them, but that was the training camp. So I missed the draft.

I was there for Ginn's rookie year. I was there for Trent Green. I was there for Ronnie Brown being great for eight weeks than tearing his ACL. God, that was my freshman year of college. That's crazy. Yeah. No, I was a sophomore and it was great. What a team.

the one in 15 dolphins. What a team to come up in to make a reporter as cynical as possible. Simple at times. Oh, that's how you died. That's how your entire soul was sucked out of your body. Was covering the one and 15 dolphins. Cameron, Warren,

and Randy Moss in one-on-one coverage was the moment I stopped. That was the last football play I watched. Oh, that makes total sense now. I would love to see a Kevin Clark just superhero Genesis story, like how you got to this point. And that would be the pivot point.

A lot of luck. That would be the radioactive spider. A lot of luck. and a lot of Jesse Chapman interviews. Cleo Lemon. That is the name I did not think I would hear today. I'll be honest with you. One more deal of the Saints did that I like.

Nick Fairley, four years, 30 million. I think Nick Fairley can play. Obviously, there's been some... He almost got in a fight at Marty Grow. I don't know if you saw that.

We've all almost gotten a fight in Marty Grau. I mean, that's just a thing that happens. I'm looking at the headline right now. He almost fought R&B group Jagged Edge during Mardi Gras. I have no idea what that is.

Am I supposed to know what that is? No, I don't know. I'll let the listener decide if we should know who that is. Four years, 30 million for Fairley, you know, that's mid-tier defensive tackle money,

especially when guys like Andre Branch are getting $9 million a year to be a pretty mediocre defensive end. It's always been a concern about what Fairley would do if the team gave him big money. That's why no one has. But he's a good player. He's a good player when he's most,

motivated and the question is whether he's going to be. Yeah, look, I think that the defensive tackle market is tricky. We just talked about it with Don Tari Po. Fairly is a fine signing. What I find funny, just about the Saints in general, I just want to say this, is that the Saints were capped out for the last 10 years, and then they got $20 million in cap room. Now they're just going to spend it in like three days.

Yeah, that's exactly what's happened. They've signed like seven guys. That's great. All right, before we hit some of the lower profile signings that have happened in the last day or so, I want to talk to you guys about podcasts. All this month, we're asking you to tell a friend about a podcast that they'll love. Right now, think of a friend, your mom, anyone you care about. What podcasts would they really love? Got it?

Now, go do it. Tell them about it in real life or on social media. And if they don't know about podcasts, show them how to use them. Tell us what you recommend with the hashtag tripod, T-R-Y-P-O-D. Thanks for spreading the word. All right. Let's get to, again, tangentially related, not even tangentially, very related to the best moment of yesterday's podcast. The tackle market has lost its fucking mind. And that continues. Classic tackle market.

That continues with Russell Okung making about $11 million a year plus $23 million guaranteed, which is still less than Matt Khalil got from the Panthers. Let us remember this. Teams just need these players, I guess, huh? I left. tackles, there's no better thing to be right now than a left tackle hitting free agency. Well, we talked about it yesterday. There's no good tackle in the draft. I guess you could say this Garrett Bulls kid is good or whatever. But like, there's not an athletic great surefire option in the first round or even second round.

And so teams are panicking. But I just don't understand if you're the Panthers, how you think you can't get a better option than Khalil with $25 million guaranteed. You can be closely to get traded to the Browns next year for with a first round pick. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. Like, it's a really bad deal. Yeah, it's awful.

And I think that the thing that sticks out to me is just, I don't understand why left tackles get paid that and right tackles don't anymore. I just don't understand why that market is so far apart. The idea that Russell and Matt Coil can get $11 million a year in 20, million guaranteed. And Rick Wagner, which we have another Mitchell-Tribisky situation in our hands, by the way. No more Ricky Wagner. Don't call him Ricky. He's Rick Wagner. How does that guy make- I mention Rick Wagner so much. This is a very pivotal point in my life. I know you, you're the only guy who likes Rick Wagner more than me. So I know this was important to point out to you. I think that guy can make about $9 million a year and we're giving a, and he's Rick,

Reagan, Rick Wagner can play. He did have a good year last year. He was very, very, good two years ago. We haven't seen that from Matt Khalil or Russell Okun in much longer than two years. So that just doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah, so I have a question. What are the Baltimore Ravens doing? In what sense? I mean, just letting Rick Wagner go.

I don't know. I feel like you could have kept him around. They probably could have, but they don't have a ton of money to work with. I know. They're near the bottom of, and they wanted Brand new latest back, apparently. I know. That defense in Baltimore has a chance to be pretty darn good next year. Yeah, I agree with that.

We talked about yesterday. I like the Tony Jefferson signing. Laderius Webb has been jettison, which is fine. What do you think Webb's market's going to be? I think someone should take a flyer on him because he was pretty solid as a safety last year. You know, Laderius Webb has that flexibility where he can cover and play safety. I know that they would never do it, but I feel like maybe he'd be a replacement for like a Micah Hyde who's played safety and can do whatever. Spoiler alert, a lot of guys can't cover in the NFL.

I think if you can do one thing well, you can fit on a team. I think Webb can cover. And, you know, he's, last year was his first year at safety, really. He made the move. Obviously, the thing with Lel Darius Webb is health. He's never been a guy that's been able to stay on the field. But it's like Laderius Webb's 35. Well, Darius Webb is 31.

He was solid last season. If you're a team that needs safety help, I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on him for not a lot of money whatsoever. What are the Packers going to do with safety? Without Mike to hide? Well, he was more of a flexible. piece anyway. They still have Burnett. They still have Clinton Dix. Yeah, Clinton Dix is there. They lose flexibility by losing high. That's what you lose. He's a slot corner in situations. He's able to

play safety in a pinch. He's a guy that makes your defense much more flexible, gives you options. Same reason that the Patriots would bring back a guy like Theron Harmon. Just a guy that allows you to do a ton of different things. The Packers are doing Packers stuff, man. They'd re-signed Nick Perry for a below market deal. They're probably going to let T.J. Lang walk. So, They're going to, you know, not overpay for guys. They're going to bring back guys that are their own, and they're not going to sign anybody outside of the building. Welcome to Ted Thompson's world.

Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. It's really strange to me that we go through this every year. And I think if you look at some of the Packer writers, it's the funny trope of all these fans saying, why isn't Ted Thompson going to do something? Meanwhile, they've made the playoffs like eight straight years. See, I'm not on that train. Aaron Rogers is their quarterback.

I know. Aaron Rogers. Wait, I'm not sure where you're going with this. Are you saying that they make the playoffs because Aaron Rogers is a quarterback? I'm saying if you don't make the playoffs with Aaron Rogers as your quarterback, you're fucking up. Well, that almost happened last year. I think Ted Thompson has done a remarkable job in many ways. The drafting he has done at some of those spots is absurd.

What they've been able to pick on the offensive line from fourth rounders, even the deal they gave Bakhtiari. and how insanely good. I know we talk about how the market changes from year to year. That's fine. But the deal they gave Bakhtiari now to have him for the next four years, the price tag they do, is ridiculous. They do that stuff. And the same thing goes through Balaga, by the way.

Their bookend tackles make like $7.5 million a year each. Yep. And they're good. So they do that kind of stuff. He's very good at certain things. But I do think that seeing free agency as this, avoid at all costs evil is outdated thinking. I just do.

The Patriots spent $15 million a year on Stefan Gilmore. Are the Patriots worse at this than the Peckers? Yeah, but the Patriots have done this before. They went out and got Adelius Thomas. You know, it's not like the Patriots had a strict, like, we're not going to do this rule. They've been doing it for over a decade. I don't know.

I think that's overstating you. They haven't signed many big name guys outside of their building. The Adelius Thomas thing was over 10 years ago. I know, I understand that, but even Chris Hogan last year at five per. I mean, five per is for, no, I understand that, but I mean, it's Ted Tom, who's Ted Thompson going out and getting for five per? It was Jared Cook for a year. Right, and he's gone now. Yeah.

They have Hogan for four years. It is kind of strange. And I, you kind of sensed it that there was some frustration on Rogers' part and why wouldn't there be? I mean, you see teams going out and doing everything they can to improve. And the Packers just don't do that. They're good. The way they do things is good. It works for them.

They have a fantastic team building strategy. That's a $33 million in Cap room and aren't using it. Yeah. So I don't know. That's what I'm saying. Look, Aaron Rod has made the comment, oh, we need to go all in and stuff like that. I think there's a happy medium from what they do. I mean, I think the Casey Hayward thing in retrospect was maybe not the guy to let go since he intercepted.

every pass in San Diego last year. And I think maybe Micah Hyde is the type of depth that they need around. But I'm going to err on the side of they can draft and develop these guys. I totally agree. But I still understand the frustration on Packers fans part, especially in a market where there's so much money. And you can go make one or two moves. And people are going to want to play with Rogers, by the way.

Yeah. FYI. I don't know. I mean, you can bring back your own guys for less. Is there a chance that you can go get somebody else or less dance? Or maybe no? I'm sure they make these phone calls. They're not incompetent.

But it still seems like there just is more to be had in the free agent market for them than they typically come away with. Yeah. Especially, I mean, look, I think that the free agent market has changed a little bit and that we've seen a number of teams go out and spend huge amounts of money and it actually works. Yeah. Whether that's Denver, whether that's even the Giants last year. I think that free agency has evolved to the point that it's not just other team's mistakes that are hitting the open market. So I think that I think there's a little bit of wiggle room.

But again, I'm okay going the Ted Thompson route as well. Yeah, no, you're right. And, you know, just it's little things. You know, the fact that Julius Peppers is gone now. You know, they just, they seem to lose this kind of depth and rely on their ability to draft it in order to overcome it. And they usually do. But it's just, it's something we see all. the time. And the fact that Peppers is going back to Carolina, by the way, I love that so much.

Oh, hell yeah. I love that so, so much. The idea of Julius Peppers ending his career in that uniform as a guy who can help that team in a way they need it. I mean, there's just another competent pass rusher who can play inside. The, him, Kwan Short, Charles Johnson, and Mario Edison, it's not bad. I mean, you can play with that with Litu, that's in past rush situations. Obviously, the Litu Lai is there. But that's a group of guys that can get after. the quarterback a little bit in cheap ways. They didn't go out and spend big on a pass rusher. They brought Addison back on a modest deal.

I mean, I like the way they spent their money on that side of the ball. I just wish I liked the way they spent it on the other side of the ball. Maybe Pepper's can play the offensive tackle as well. Just a couple more kind of house cleaning things here. The secondary pass rush market is kind of what's going right now. William Hayes got traded the dolphins yesterday for really nothing. I mean, he's a competent player. So I like Miami getting a little bit of depth there with him.

It kind of overcomes that weird deal they gave Andre Branch that I will never understand. But and then the Colts signed John Simon. And that doesn't seem like a, we have to talk about this kind of signing. The Colts needed a pass rusher so desperately bad that it actually does matter. They really did need to go get a guy like this. Kind of the same way that the Bears really needed to sign Pritz and Mukamura for a year. I like that a Mukamara deal. I really like it.

And after you missed out on every single other, it's not as if, this I love this, this notion that the bears are trying to like find bargains and that's where you get a Mukamora, the bears were all in on A.J. A.J. Boyer and Stefan Gilmore yesterday. Maybe they weren't like as, you know, 15 million in,

but they were in conversations with both of these guys that apparently were real. It's not as if the bears were like digging through the clearance rack. They missed out on guys and needed to do something else. Yeah, they were trying to load up. I mean, we talked about yesterday, but I mean, like, they're trying to save their jobs there. And those expensive veterans are how you get to seven wins. And I wrote this when I said what unit could be next year's Falcons out of nowhere to be really good.

And I said, the bear's defense in the sense that their front seven is going to be good if they're healthy. Just full stop. There's enough talent there that back group is going to be really. really formidable. The secondary is a mess. And if they could have gotten some quick fix options in free agency, I think that's a group that could have gotten very good, very fast. But when you miss out on those guys, it's a completely different story. Hey, Robert Griffin the third was just released. What was your greatest moment for him on the Browns? It was either. Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm going to break into this long thing about the opener against the Saints. Don't care. Don't care. I'm

Browns only. He had that really long touchdown around that one game. down the sideline. I think we get some Vikings. Don't care. The Robert Griffin Browns years were like, you know, for you, maybe like, you know, Jason Newstead's just terrible post-metallica bands, floats them and jetsam. Flotsam and Jetsam and Voivod. That was the other one. I saw Voivod live once. Are you joking? No. It's just one of those things where you stumble into a metal show that somebody asked you to go to and Jason Newsstead's band is there. You didn't know they were going to

happen. You sought out the Jason Neustead Post-Matelica band. I guarantee. who very much defends Jason News said, that was not the case. I don't believe this. I am challenging your official story. You knew that Vovoid was coming to town. Voivod was coming to town and you were all in. This is excellent, by the way, as I sit on Flotsman and Jetsam's Wikipedia page. Flotsam and Jetsam was once known as Paradox, Dreadlocks with an X, and Dogs with a Z.

Those are their three other names. Echo Brain? Echo Brain was another thing, yes. This is just really good Wikipedia page. All right. I think that we've gotten to the Jason Newsstead portion of the program. That's all I really have to say. I'm sorry.

I didn't scroll down all the way. The Panthers signed Jason Neustead to a $25 million contract. Even without those neck problems. It's not shocking at all. Oh, man. He was in Flossam-Jutson before he was in Metallica, though. That's the thing. That was his old band.

And then he was in Voivod later. And then also Echo Brain. We stopped recording like 30 minutes ago, Mays. Am I getting this wrong? I don't care. Maybe I got this wrong. I know I saw one of the Jason News stead bands. I can't remember which one it was, which even is more proof that I did not see them on purpose.

All right. That's all I got, man. Yeah, I can tell. We'll be back next week on Tuesday, I believe. We're going to hit whatever big news comes out. We'll talk about it off the top. But we're going to get into our draft. coverage. I mean, it's going to sneak up before you know it. So we're going to start digging into some

the individual positions. But if something big happens, we will definitely be around to talk about it. So as always, really appreciate you guys listening and talk to you later.