The Ringer NFL Show - Fantasy Football Divisives, "Thank Me Later" Players, and More | The Dantasy Football Podcast (Ep. 287)

Episode Date: August 24, 2018

The Ringer’s Danny Heifetz and Danny Kelly list their “thank me later” players to target in drafts (02:00) and explain why they’re intrigued by players like Sammy Watkins, Jeremy Hill, and a few others, plus why they're deterred by one Colts running back's fumblitis and a defending Super Bowl champion's old-man knees (16:00). Then the Dannies break down whether they're in or out on a few of fantasy football's most divisive players (33:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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the wins are as epic as the season is long. Yahoo Fantasy is also the only app where you can manage all your season-long and daily fantasy teams in one place. Create or join a league now at Yahoo.com the Ringer Fantasy Football. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the Dantasy Football Podcast,

part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Danny Kelly, and I'm joined, as always, by my esteemed colleague, Danny Hyfitz. D.H., how you doing, man? I'm great, man. How you doing? I'm hanging in there. We're on to preseason week three, which means we're getting closer and closer to the real thing.

It's getting real. Yeah, I mean, I'm super excited. This is kind of the dress rehearsal week, so you're actually going to see some starters and see something that resembles real football. And yeah, we're getting closer and closer to draft, too. I know it's like almost the NFL season when I can see Eli Manning just lumbering around like a newly born giraffe in the backfield escaping past rushers from his blinds. I'm just like, oh, yeah, it's the fall.

It's perfect. You love it. As usual, we're going to do a couple of segments. We're going to start out with the Thank Me Laders. And Danny, I'm going to start out with a second year tight end. His name is David Joku. He's a brown. and I think he's about to have a very good season.

We saw week one. He had two touchdowns. Oh yeah, I saw. It was against the Giants. That's right. That's already starting. How could I forget?

It's like already a painful memory for you. It seemed like a harbanger of things to come. I mean, obviously he's a really, really good athlete. They didn't use him a lot last year kind of surprisingly and inexplicably. I think he played in less than half of their athlete. snaps. And so far, per Adam Levitton, he's played on 94% of the first string snaps for the Browns this preseason. And so I think he's going to be an integral piece of their, of their offense. Now, obviously, the question is who's going to be the quarterback? I think right now,

the, you know, the odds on bet is Tyrod Taylor's going to be the starter. But either way, if it's Baker-Mainfield or Taylor, I think he is going to be a very, very, I think he's going to be a breakout tight end this year. What's your, what's your opinion of him so far? So my opinion of him so far first is, do you watch Hard Knocks? I watch bits and pieces of it. So here's the thing. I know some players like to hike up their jersey. David and Joku wears his jersey and his pads the highest I've ever seen. Like he's just wearing shoulder pads and like it's all skin. Like it's like Daisy Dukes. It's wild. I've never seen anyone quite hike up their jersey so much. It's like Ziziel Elliott style. Yeah, he looks sculpted. You know, it's way more than that. It's wild.

So, like, honestly, every time he's on the field, you kind of can't not look at him. Also, super concerning that they considered a punishment that he had to do 30 catches on the jugs machine when Antonio Brown does like 100 catches after practice every day because he's just, you know, for fun. No, I think you're totally right here, though, because, I mean, his snaps are going to go up. He's, I think he's on a similar-ish. We've talked about this before, but I think he almost reminds me of, in a way, Delaney Walker, of kind of guy that has a lot of tools, but it's a question of how

quickly can he put together the routes and the basic stuff, like, you know, catching the football. But I think that he's a fantastic value to be grabbing as you know, either Titan 12 or someone you're getting after the first 100 picks, if you're talking about who you can break into the top

five, I mean, I don't think anyone would be very surprised. Yeah, I mean, tight-end group in general is really, really shallow or heavy at the top, I guess. And I just look at what Tyrod Taylor did in Buffalo. Obviously Charles Clay was a big target for him all the time. I think he's just a veteran quarterback.

He's not going to take a ton of risk, so I think he likes to kind of utilize that checkdown slash, you know, security blanket over the middle. I think Joku's just going to have a big year. And to be fair, he's not just the checkdown thing. Like Charles Clay kind of, it's probably more the checkdown guy that Tyrod had in

Buf, Tarad, excuse me, that's a whole thing. Let's not get into that. But in Buffalo, but Joe's fast. He's fast. He's actually gotten much better as a route runner. So it'd be interesting after all this with like Jarvis and things that he actually, you know, we talk about Josh Gordon, but I mean, he's one of the better

deep threats on the team actually. Yeah. He can own that seam route, I think, and you know, challenge safety is up to seam. So yeah, I mean, I'm excited to watch him. I think in terms of breakout players, he's definitely got to watch. Who are you guys? Who do you want to talk about? So speaking of deep guys, I was kind of looking

at players that just love their value and there were a few different guys that really going at the tail end of drafts that I just love to grab every time. It's never the same guy, but there's always a handful of dudes that I'm just like, I can't believe they're still there. So this is more, this is a handful of recommendations. You don't have to go with any single one of them, but I think that if you end up with any of them in the 14th, 15th round right before you grab your defense or whenever you're picking,

I think it's fantastic. It's three dudes. Yeah. Michael Gallup on the Cowboys, which first of all, maybe the best name in the history of wide receivers. His name is literally Gallup. I'm a Cowboys. And he plays for the Cowboys. So that's Destiny, after a whole season of wondering who's going to be a receiver for them.

It's fair to be a little worried about the Cowboys line now, which I'll talk about in a minute. But he's just, I mean, he's their third round pick and he just seems like he really might be the answer. You know, obviously, I mean, he's going late, so you're not investing a ton. He's a rookie. But it would be really interesting if behind Hearns and Beasley, I think he has a complimentary skill set. I don't think he's necessarily pulling from either of those guys. he's going ADP 140, wide receiver 53 on average per fantasy pros.

Next one, wide receiver 54, Kenny Goliday, so right behind him. Yeah. Kenny Goliday, this is always so weird to me. Every year there are kind of sleepers-dajor of rookie wide receivers, even though we kind of understand that wide receivers are really,

really difficult position to come out and play immediately in the NFL because it's not just the physical, people talk about the speed of the NFL, but it's also about timing. It's not just being at, oh, NFL game speed. You have to be on NFL game speed with Matthew Stafford, who's been the NFL for 10 years and knows what he's doing.

So that, like, it's not... There's precision involved. Yeah, and so there's a reason that rookie running backs come out and set the world on fire. Meanwhile, Juju Smith-Schuster had a better season than like the five or six receivers taken ahead of him in the real draft combined, right? So, Gallaud is a good example to me of someone that he was a sleeper, and then everyone's kind of forgotten about him a little bit. But meanwhile, the Lions...

Lions fans have not forgotten about it. Lions fans have not forgotten about them. I wrote about the top 10 receiver cores in the NFL like earlier this summer. And I didn't include the Lions because right now they basically, you know, it's Golden Tate and Marvin Jones. That's a really good duo. But they didn't have a tight end and they don't have a really well-proven third receiver. And so, but Lions fans were really pissed at me because, you know, they think Galladay is essentially, well, I don't, they're not saying. this, but it made it sound like he's the second coming of Megatron or something.

There is, you know, he has been lining up as a, quote, starter in the Lions two receiver sets so far this preseason. So that's kind of a big deal. Now, and that's in front of Golden Tate, so that's kind of interesting. But at the same time, the Lions are a three receiver set team. Like they ran, they've run more three receiver sets than any team in the last three years, I think, something like 85% or something like that. So, I mean, he's not necessarily in front of Golden Tate at this point,

but I think he's going to get a ton of play. And so he's also someone that if Marvin Jones gets hurt, he's one of those receivers that actually vaults, you know, usually targets are spread around when a receiver hurts. That's why, you know, it's difficult to handcuff receivers. I'd say not only is Ghaladay may be able to carve out a role in his own right. I mean, Golden Tate and Marvin Jones have both dealt with injuries in their career, and he's the guy that, I mean, Gullad has too.

But if Ghaladay actually leaps to number two on the depth chart for what either talent or injury, he's immediately like just vaults up the rankings. And he's also talented. He's also really good. His average catch was 17 yards last year as a rookie. So he's a really solid deep threat too. I like that one a lot. The last guy I got for you, John Brown of the Ravens. This was, I'll admit that when the Ravens signed him, I kind of like yawned.

Because, I mean, so he's, he was just kind of the real. kind of deep threat burner for the Cardinals and he was tortured. Like it's almost like Sisyphus rolling his rock. He's the deep threat entering the season on a team that had Carson Palmer who couldn't throw the ball deep really anymore. And then he leaves the Cardinals and now he's on the Ravens

where Joe Flacco's arm strength is much more probably talked about than it should be at this point because he actually is terrible depth of target. But every single report out of training camp says that Flacco has this fire lid under him from Lamar Jackson. and where there's fire, there's smoke

because I swear to God everyone on the team insists on calling John Brown smoke. It's wild. That was this. Like, it's just like, oh yeah, man, smoke. Like, they're just talking about, oh, yeah, yeah, smoke rent a great route. Like, that's his new name now. So he's right now going wide receiver is 63.

Obviously, he's going to be like a deep threat kind of guy, but if he actually is able to develop the kind of underneath routes and more timing-based things we haven't really seen from him, it's not really discussed, but it'd be pretty interesting if Joe Flacco was not good this year, but like average? No, I mean, even if the, if the Ravens' offense, if their passing offense is even marginally better,

their offense could take a big jump. Because we saw last year in the second half of the year, especially, their run game really took off under Greg Roman. You know, Alex Collins had like a huge second half. And so there's that kind of as the foundation. And you know, Flacco came into the year

fighting a back injury. He started out terribly. He got a little bit cleaner as a season went on, but like you said, his, I think his A-DOT, his average death of target was maybe the worst in the NFL, if not, it was like one of the worst three in the NFL. So he was just checked down the whole time. And then this year, it's kind of funny because he started changing like little things that are super basic. Like, beat reporters were like, yeah, he's working out with his receivers in the off-season now, which he's a better and quarterback. What have you been doing my dude?

I love that. Like, he's just like, so on one hand, you're like, how have you not been doing this for 10 years? And on the other, it's like, that's, uh, that's, uh, I'm not willing to bet Michael Crabtree at like 63rd overall that Joe Flackett will be good. I'm kind of intrigued about John Brown and like my final pick before I take a defense. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, look at, so Rodo World does a thing where they track loss of targets from last year in terms of like volume. The Ravens have 332 targets left.

You know, in free agency or via release or whatever, obviously they signed Crabtree, Willie Sneed and John Brown. But we have really no idea how that chemistry and just in terms of how they're going to call plays and everything. We don't really know how the new workload is going to get split up or whatever. So I think, you know, it's a really smart gamble late. You know, I wouldn't be surprised, honestly, if his ADP went up a little bit before the season, if we see a couple good plays from him out of the preseason. But yeah, I think he really smart late round bet.

You can't really, I mean, you're betting on there's tons and tons of available volume. and I think that there's a chance that the Ravens' offense could be better this year and so, I mean, I'm not saying they're going to be good but they're going to be a little bit better. My most contrarian opinion this year is that Joe Flacko might be good. It'll be fine. It'll be fine.

I'm not going to... We can delve into that later. I'm not in full support of that, but... Who's your final? Thank me later, guy. All right, so I really am intrigued right now with Emmanuel Sanders from the Broncos. There's many reasons for this. Number one, I just think he's a really good player.

But number two, I think, and this is something that I've heard from a couple of people lately, that I think a lot of people kind of forget that he was hurt for half of last year. He had like a knee issue that was nagging him. And according to NextGen stats, he just wasn't really as fast as he normally was. Going back to 2016, you know, obviously he was dealing with a subpar quarterback situation in Denver. Now they've got Case Keenham, who, I don't know if he's necessarily like a good. quarterback but I think he's definitely an upgrade from what they had last year. All the reports out camp right now are that he's, he's, you know, on the same page with

Keenham. He's kind of turning into his favorite target or whatever. And obviously, you know, even a small uptick in their passing offense could be huge for them. Last year, I think I saw this, they were 31st in DVA last year in the passing game. So I think that there's a, There's a huge chance for a big improvement there with Sanders. And I think the other thing that's interesting is they're playing him in the slot a little bit more this year. I guess I saw this from, I can't remember where I saw this. Oh, Evan Silva said they've run about half their snaps. Sanders has run half of snaps from inside the slot.

And I just wrote about how NFL passing games more than ever are kind of happening over the middle field. they're more efficient. Passes are more efficient from two players lining up in the slot. It's just kind of an easier thing and then trying to pass to the outside, outside the numbers. And so I think there's a strong chance

that Sanders could have a big kind of, not breakout, but like a bounce back season this year. And the other thing about him moving to the slot, well, not moving to the slot because obviously he's worked there before in the past, but probably he'll spend more time there this year. And I think that's interesting

because we've seen how the slot can kind of rejuvenate, not rejuvenate, but like really can kind of inject some new life, like a PRP injection to like people's careers. Like, I mean, what happened with Larry Fitzgerald kind of since he went from outside and mainly in the slot, it's kind of wild. I mean, obviously it's not like a cure-all thing, but it's interesting how, you know, suddenly you're taking them against receivers or really cornerbacks with different skill sets,

and maybe you're getting them in positions where they don't have to fight off the line in the same bit. And it does seem to not really pause the aging process, but for guys who are coming back from injuries or, I mean, Sanders is actually 31 now, which makes me feel. kind of old. But it's interesting how guys on the other side of the 30s can move there and have interesting things happen. So yeah, absolutely. I mean, so he's a guy that I've definitely got, you know, I'm going to be targeting him a lot in drafts this year because I think he could

have a big bounce back. So right now he's ADP is around 78 in PPR, 33 wide receiver. I mean, the guys kind of read him, he's around Will Fuller. I mean, we've talked about Will Fuller. But like Will Fuller Territory, Markey's Goodwin, guys behind him are like Robert Woods, Devin Funchess. How do you feel about them? I mean, I kind of like all those guys, to be honest. I think that whole tier of players, I think, could be, you know, they could kind of outplay their ADP right now. Yeah, we know my thoughts on Will Fuller.

So on that note, we can transition to intrigue or deterred because my intrigue or deterred actually really stems from that because I noticed some other guys that are also playing more in the slot. And I actually wanted your thoughts on these guys. but basically other guys that are playing more on the slot that I saw this, and this is from a list from Graham Barfield who tweeted this out, which I really love from Fantasy Guru.

And he threw out there that Sammy Watkins, who's currently going around 74th overall, Watkins has done, I think, 12 of 23 of his snaps in the preseason so far, which is a small sample, obviously, but from the slot. That's really interesting. So he spent, I think, 70% of his time in Los Angeles

was from the outside. Watkins is a really interesting guy that if he could become more of a slot receiver because he's 25 and it kind of feels like we've all collectively almost given up on him a guy that was considered not the heir to Calvin Johnson but like kind of coming out of the draft like he was this physically gift

I mean it doesn't have the same size but like physically gifted he could do it all like route running and the meeting the ball at the point of the catch like he was special and obviously he's been robbed some foot injuries and things but it's kind of interesting that like you go down the list of looking at guys, you're like, oh yeah, and then this 25-year-old former like world beater is just sitting there in the 60s. And then I don't want to say I'm

ready to pick him because I've been burned by Sammy too many times, but I'm intrigued. Yeah, I mean, especially now that, you know, we're going to be watching an offense run by Patrick Mahomes. There's just a lot of, there's a lot of reasons to watch the chiefs this year. I think, you know, all those guys are very, very intriguing. But I mean, just, you know, the different, Going from, you know, Alex Smith, who obviously had a great season last year, but going from that offense to Patrick Mahomes, it could be, they could look completely different. So I'm definitely intrigued too. I don't really know what to expect. Like, I don't know if I'm necessarily high on walk-ins just because there's so much, I guess, unknown there. And he's also got to deal with, you know, fighting for targets with Tyree Kill and Travis Kelsey and all that. But they obviously gave him a lot of money. And so it seems like they want to make him a big part of their offense.

Yeah, definitely. The other guy that's also in the slot, I'm seeing a little more, is Trey Burton. I mean, we've talked about Trey Burton before, but again, he's working a lot from the slot. We kind of figured that might happen, but it's still nice to see confirming that there are going to be Travis Kelsey-esque roles for him. We've talked about how it's unfair to expect anything resembling a Travis Kelsey season from him, but it's nice to actually see him working from there like we'd hoped. I think there's more buzz right now on Burton than maybe any other tight end. You know, people are really, you know, I think there's really, really high hopes around him. You know, and like you said, if he could play that, Travis Kelsey role, that's huge. And he's definitely athletic enough. So, yeah, he, in a shallow tight end group, I think, you know, he's a really, really good target. Yeah. He's tied in 10 right now, he said?

Yeah, it's going tight end. I mean, depending where you look, but fantasy pros by ADP. Yeah. And then who are some of the guys you're intrigued by? Yeah, so I never thought I would really say this, but over the last couple of weeks, I've kind of become intrigued with Jeremy Hill on the Patriots. Obviously, you know, they've had some injury situations happening, you know, in their backfield. Sony-Michel had already had a knee issue.

And so in the Patriots backfield, there's a lot of question marks, but it sounds like Jeremy Hill has kind of looked really good. And so, you know, he's going to kind of have to like hold off some of the guys around him, Mike Gillisley or whoever. But he could end up being kind of that like goal line back that we saw. Remember last year when Gillisley scored three touchdowns in the early, I think in the first game and everyone expected a huge year from him. And then he kind of, I think he fumbled and they stopped using him at all. But if he could, if Jeremy Hill could emerge, you know, because right now it's like, Rex Burkhead, James White,

who are more sort of the dynamic pass catching style kind of guys. I think if they could use Hill as like that, you know, the hammer or whatever in their run game, kind of like Garrett Blunt was back in the day, then he could have sneaky upside, you know? And so it just sounds like, you know,

reports out of Patriots camp sounds like he's kind of looking really good, like more spry. I saw that from Doug Kiyadh. And so, yeah, he's kind of a guy I've got my eye on right now. The Patriots between Rex Burkhead and Corey Dillon, there's certainly quite the lineage of taking running backs from Cincinnati and having them work into England.

Yeah. Well, I mean, he's a, right now, Hill's ADP is 240. He's running back 70, so he's basically undrafted. And so, I mean, he's a late around guy. He's a late around fire. I'm definitely going to be taken in a few leagues. I love that.

I think that's fantastic. There's nothing wrong. I mean, nothing wrong with that. while you're talking about guys who look spry, I see the next person on your list is Frank Gore. Frank Gore is just that guy who never ages, right? He's just every year you think he's going to fall off that cliff and then he somehow manages to just keep chugging along.

And now, you know, he hasn't played in the preseason and I think they're kind of like just letting him kind of do his veteran thing. But it sounds like news out of Miami is that he could even be a, starter and split in split carries with Kenyon Drake. And so I think that there is some value to be had there. You know, he might not be kind of like a running back two or whatever. Like he has been a couple of like last couple of years. But, you know, for what he's what he's costing right now in terms of his ADP and everything, I think you could really, you know, get a lot of value for him. Right now he's ADP is 221, running back 65. You know, he's a late round guy. Sixty five years old. Yeah. He's 30.

No, I respect the hustle. I don't mean to impugn the great Frank Gore. Yeah. The great but not late Frank Gore. It's a crowded backfield there, but it feels like people are kind of forgetting about him a little bit. Well, he's, this is mean, but he's a little forgettable. I love him, though. Every year, though.

This is true. Last intrigued for you. I saw this one. This one rattled me a little bit, but I see where you're coming from. Are you talking about Mike Boone? Mike Boone. Yeah, I mean, he, obviously right now, he's behind some guys in the Minnesota backfield, but he looked really, really explosive last week when he run.

He broke off a nice cutback for like a huge gain, and it was actually, I mean, it was a good hole, but like it was actually a really good read. Yeah, I mean, he just, he looked infinitely better than Latvius Murray. And that, I don't know, they're not going to make a decision based on one game, but obviously Murray fumbled twice in that game. And Boone looked really, really good. So he's kind of like one guy out of file, you know, file in the back of your mind right for now. He's a really, really, really good athlete, and that showed up on the field.

I mean, if Murray continues to have, you know, ball security issues, then he could end up being the backup right there. The fumbles crushed me because I actually loved the idea of pairing Dalvin Cook with Latavius Murray because I know handcuffing's kind of gone like out of vogue, but like Latavius Murray is one of the few handcuffs that like, all right, if Dalvin Cook gets hurt again. like he's a clear like starting player. Yeah. And like it's no question. And it's painful to see him fumble the ball. Because it doesn't matter who you are if you're fumbling. You're kind of screwed, which is still why I don't really trust Sony Michelle.

But another guy that I found intriguing D.K. Is John Kelly, Chief of Staff of the United States. No, John Kelly, Rams running back, who has got a lot of Alvin Kumar comparisons because he also went to Tennessee, which just seems unfair to the guy. but it seems like they're not they're not it's just kind of all right they won to Tennessee but he very much

looks like he's usurping Malcolm Brown for the backup job you know he's probably not going to rise above him on the depth chart right now but if Todd Gurley were to go down everyone's it seems like very likely that John Kelly does have the stuff

to actually do more on the offense than Malcolm Brown does Malcolm Brown solid guy but you know sometimes difficult breaking away in quite the way Gurley does and with Gurley's a guy actually, I would handcuff and I would grab John Kelly. Right. Very intrigued.

Think about the upside of just late round, last round, grabbing Gurley's backup. Like, imagine if he went down the volume. Like, that could be a league winner right there. No, yeah, it really could. Look, it's get insurance. Whether it's a U-Haul or your number one or we'll pick, like, you know, to get the $1. I love the pick. I love John Kelly.

I want to say maybe talked about him on a previous podcast, too. Like, he was the guy who when I wrote the scout speak article during the draft halftime that he was the rolling ball of butcher knives. You know, he just runs really, really hard, you know, bounces off tackles. He's just really hard to tackle. So he's a lot of fun to watch. I don't, he's, he's not as explained. He's not, he's not even like in the same stratosphere in terms of style as Alvin Kamara.

But he is, he is elusive, I'll put it that way. He's just not as explosive. And then moving on to deterred. Detered. Detered. Do you call him the deterreds? Yeah, this is, that's kind of mean. That came out weird. but it actually kind of fits

my first guy right now the Colts backfield man it's so hard to figure out rough couple weeks you know they got like Kristen Michael Jordan Wilkins Robert Turbin is suspended for the first four games I want to say and then

Naheem Himes Heinz he got he got quite a bit of I think hype you know over the first couple months after the draft and he just hasn't really taken advantage and kind of figured out a way to secure

a role on the team. He's fumbled, I want to say, like, three or four times in the preseason. So that could really limit his ability to kind of like find a place on the team because Marlon Mack, I think, is kind of the same style of running back for them. And so if he keeps fumbling, you know, he's the kind of guy that could just end up not, you know, he could just ride the pine all year. And so I'm kind of, I'm kind of down on him right now. I just, I don't know if I can trust him at this point. Yeah, I, look, they brought, the Colts brought in, uh, Christine Michael, who I think is in the long list of running backs

who have like how I met your mother is the crazy hot scale running backs kind of have like the elite talent to like actual production I've never heard more hype about someone

to like see less from them than Christine Michael in my entire life I was a part of that problem I'm sure so which I understand but that's kind of when you know oh my God

maybe this is just to stay away like every year there's a couple back fields just stay away the cults feel like maybe that's it this year next guy for you you're a little deterred by Jhajai

So right now, I'm not out. I'm not out on Ajaii, but it sounds like they're already managing his reps and kind of like worrying a little bit worried about his knee, which to me is just a little bit scary. You know, if you're going to take him, if you're going to take him high, like I just don't think, to me it's like a risk I don't really want to take at this point. You know, that might change. If he falls in the draft really far, then fine. Like that's fine taking him.

But I'm just a little bit, you know, like you said, I'm deterred about it because I, I just worry about the long-term, you know, the health of his knee. Yeah, it's always difficult with guys like that, especially when managing their carries. Yeah. Well, and they have such a, they have a talented backfield there. Corey Clement could kind of like eat into his reps anyway. And so, I don't know. I was really interested by Riley's research we talked about last week where he said Adjad is one of the fastest, or the top rising running backs.

if you switch from PPR scoring to points per first down. That really kind of matched the eye test because when you're watching, like, especially the Eagles, he is like the number one guy to me that I think of he's better in real life than in fantasy football. Like, he's really great at banging out like eight-yard runs on second and eight,

but like it never really translates. But yeah, and then the last one for me that I'm deterred by, Ezekiel Elliott, actually. I mean, look, I'm not changing where I would draft him or anything. I'm not saying, but I'm deterred by the recent news. Dallas's offensive line is just in the overall scope of the Cowboys, anytime you talk about them or their offense,

it's always the first thing you brought up. Well, like, oh, well, they have the O line. They're not just elite and grayed in all pros, but they're signed for like the next like five years, basically. They're all locked in. And then this week, like the floodgates open. It's been trickling in for like a full year. But Travis Frederick, and a scary thing,

is diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. And there's no real timeline for him to come back. And that's obviously very, very serious situation. So I'm sure football is not the first thing on his mind right now. So yeah, so hopefully he gets healthy. And then looking elsewhere on the line,

Zach Martin had a scary knee injury last week that he ended up being not as bad as they thought, but that's still just not what you want from your other all pro guard going into the season. And then La Jolla Collins was limping. I practiced that he his ankle taped. Tyrone Smith's already sitting out because, you know, he obviously got hurt last year,

and then the game that he set out was when they gave up six sacks from the left tackle onto Dak Prescott. So you're kind of looking at everyone in their mind, just like, oh, yeah, the Cowboys are the best O'Line of football. They're right now, they're so battered for a team that's in late August that you're looking in and, like, there's just some very base assumptions we have about, oh, well, Zique is fine because, you know, not only he's amazing, he's got the line. But really, I think of it in terms of Zeeke and also Dak Prescott.

We've never really seen DAC without the luxury of like this incredible line. And so it's not so much I'm deterred about the fantasy performances right now as much as I think that we might have a fundamental change. Now we look at Dallas very quickly into the season. Yeah, I wonder if it, because right now he's like a top three pick. And Connor Williams, who they drafted out of Texas, I mean, he was a better prospect almost in 2016 than he kind of declined as in scout size in 2017. and I mean look it's it's difficult to transition but he was kind of a guard tackle tweener in a way and that it does seem like he's having trouble

I mean yeah it maybe it takes a little bit of wind out of your sales and how you're feeling about Elliot this year I think he's still probably he's still probably a top five pick for for most people though when you think just because just based on volume he's going to be the focal point of that offense still just maybe not going to be quite as efficient yeah it's definitely kind of an interesting situation

Are you going to be like taking David Johnson over him now? Is that something that you consider? Because I know that you had your reservations about that too. I'm probably sticking with Zika over David Johnson. But it's on my mind. But before we move on, let's take a quick break. For over 20 years, DirecTV has been the exclusive home to NFL Sunday ticket, the only way to get every live game every Sunday.

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That's M-Y-B-O-O-K-I-E. And don't forget to use the promo code Ringer NFL when creating your account to claim the bonus. You play, you win, you get paid. All right, D-H, for this final segment, we wanted to talk a little bit about some guys that are divisive, the divisives in fantasy football. Who's your first guy?

because I know, you know, going into the season, there's some conflicting opinions about this guy. Yeah, so, I mean, every year there's just always a handful of dudes that just people just have absolutely opposite stuff on. And one of the dudes I'm seeing right now, actually, Christian McCaffrey, I feel like, is just become one of those dudes. People love him, people hate him.

He's going eighth overall, right? I mean, went eighth overall in the real NFL draft last year. Right now he's going 16th overall and PPR, 15th overall in standard, which is kind of interesting. I think there'd be a bigger gap there. But I'm interested in him, because it really comes down to the believers, so to speak,

they kind of think that he's going to get way more volume last year. So Jonathan Stewart left in Free Agency, and then he had 13 carries, almost 14 carries, a game last year, and then basically what happens to those carries and how much of them are going to go to McCaffrey? Right. There's this quote going around that, like, oh, yeah, Norve Turner said 25 to 30 touches a game for McCaffrey.

I looked into, like, the actual circumstance. That's not even what he said. He said, like, quote, quoting him. He said, quote, I read that Coach Rivera said 20 to 25 touches per game. So that's probably realistic. I think every game comes up different. And it goes on who goes on and says, some days, guys are going to get more than others. Christian will get a share.

So there's like a whole narrative based on McCaffrey getting a ton of touches from Norv Turner being asked about Ron Rivera just throwing out 20 to 25 or 25 to 30. There's actually competing stuff. So I actually Stuff about getting 25 carries a game is ridiculous But on the other side I actually see it's interesting because Even if he just gets half of those I see the case for him to become maybe

Like a top six back if he actually gets those carries and is productive But the thing that's interesting to me is that they have a new coordinator And we love to discuss new coordinators and how things change But it's not actually really new for Cam Newton this year Because North Turner it's really just a continuation of a system that he really almost an assistant if he's implemented like five years earlier. So, yeah, I'm,

I see how there's an argument. It's not really a big system change. They're going to do similar stuff. On the flip side, one, their O line is a mess. Andrew Norwell left. He's, you know, all pro-guard. He left, and then the backup that he was going to replace him towards meniscus, there's no timetable for his return currently.

And then he's being, so now they have an undrafted rookie at a Penn State playing at left guard. and their left tackle, Matt Khalil, he's hurt, and he's week to week, and he'll be back for season one. But I don't know if you remember in the playoffs, Cam Jordan, who's the defensive end for the Saints, got through him so many times. After the game, he called Matt Khalil Speedbump McGee. He's like, oh, yeah, like Speed Bump McGee. So, like, that's Speed Bump McGee now has a bum knee. Yeah.

So. He wasn't good before that. I buy the argument that it's, it's, I see both sides here, but I am kind of conducive to the, I mean, he's definitely going to get. more carries. So, yeah, I mean, the question is, do you believe in McCaffrey as like a between the tackles runner? Like, bottom line. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. I think that the questions about that, I, yes, I do. Yeah. I mean, he's looked really, really good so far in the preseason. I think it's clear that he's a top level, you know, pass catcher as a running back. But I think there's still our questions. Obviously, his yards per carry wasn't that high last year.

He struggled a little bit in between the tackles. And so, you know, how much does C.J. Anderson kind of eat into all that? And that's the thing really is, is he getting goal line carries? Like, basically, is Norve Turner, it's second and one or third in one? Who's on the field? Is it McCaffrey or is it going to be C.J. Anderson? Right. I believe McCaffrey is good enough that he can just, you know, run it right in the A gap and just, you know, leap over or just actually power through, make those reads.

But I also think that it's kind of interesting that you could motion him out and put him the slot if you want. And again, he's someone who can be on the field with C.J. Anderson at the same time. And, you know, I just love that. I love the guys that, you know, it doesn't have to be a pick. So at the same time, I see the argument that C.J. Anderson's very talented, maybe better than Jonathan Stewart was. And maybe this is just a bunch of hogwash about this carry stuff.

I'm like, C. Anderson is good. He's, like, elusive. He breaks tackles. But I feel like I'm on the McCaffrey train or whatever because I think that he, I he just does he just offers more to an offense he's he's just faster he's more explosive laterally i i just think yeah i'm all about mcalfrey i think he's gonna have a good season i think he's gonna show improvement on running between the tackles which i think a lot of people

still doubt and i mean we know that he's a really good pass catcher too i mean there was i can't remember i saw it on twitter i think maybe it was from their preseason game he ran like a two-eight go over the middle and just eviscerated the linebacker that was trying to guard him and that's the kind of thing that he brings to the offense on every snap and so yeah I think you know you can go into the season and feel pretty good about having him in your offense

regardless of what's happening on their offensive line I still think he's going to have a huge year yeah I think the volume's going to uptick like I definitely personally I stopped getting him around Dalvin Cook but I'd still rather probably have Dalvin Cook and Cream Hunt ahead of him but I think that he's just there's certainly a chance that he's incredible

he was amazing at Stanford he was like a legit like game changer he's also one of those dudes who really is exciting to watch and I think that can kind of be lost in this he's a gamebreaker and look that that play that went viral where he had like that 70 yard touchdown and like he accelerated but like that was a wide open hole

like I was torn because I was like on one hand I was like oh this is cool but on the other I was like geez like a lot of it was huge hole against Dolphins like terrible run defense that lost sue so I'm I am in on McCaffrey this year

but I'm I'm totally see where people are coming from. Yeah. D.K., your next guy is Mark Ingram as a divisive. Yeah, I mean, obviously the big question right now is, you know, number one, how much does he fall because he's suspended for the first four weeks of the season? And then number two, like, how much does Alvin Kamara kind of take over as the lead guy there? And I personally think the, right now I think he's being undervalued.

I think people are kind of looking at that suspension and thinking, is going to completely take over on that offense. I still think they want to do a balance. I think, I don't know if the Saints have any reason to change up the way that they kind of share, you know, like split the reps or whatever. I think obviously, Kamara brings something that Ingram does not bring in terms of explosiveness and as a pass catcher. But Ingram is really good.

He's super underrated. I wrote about him last year. You know, he's still very elusive. He's a tackle breaker in between the tackles. I think he gives them kind of the physicality that they want to have on offense because, you know, I think ultimately that that offense last year was a pretty smash-mouth offense. I mean, they were running downhill stuff. And I think he brings that element to their offense.

And so right now, I mean, he's going RB 24. You know, last year he finished running back six. And on a per game basis, he was running back eight. So, I mean, he's going to have value when he gets back. And it could even actually be a good thing to have the first four weeks off. I think honestly he's being under, he's being undervalued right now. And I think, you know,

he could be a kind of guy that you target in the middle rounds because, or the early middle rounds, I guess, because he's going to come in and have fresh legs after week four. Yeah, I mean, look, the interesting thing to me is that people are doubting not just whether he's worth it, but what his role will be when he comes back. That's the fascinating part to me. And part of what's built in here is how you feel about Alvin Kamara,

because Kamara, I mean, last year, the whole deal with taking Alvin Kama, Kamara top four is kind of you know he had 6.1 yards per carry and like 13 touchdowns and on like very few snaps and no one is arguing that those will sustain like you know like bill barnwell at ESPN had a great stat that was like people who've done 6.1 yards per carry are like OJ Simpson, Barry Sanders, Jamal Charles, Adrian Peterson like two other guys. None of them ever replicated it. It's completely unsustainable. But his volume will uptick even after Ingram comes back, which I see.

But I'm also like, there are like, there are people who think Jonathan Williams might be able to steal his role. But I think Ingram is still like a pretty integral part of what they do. And I'm confused how he's falling closer to, love to Latavus Murray. But I'm confused how he's closer to Latavius Murray now than actually Kamara. Yeah. I mean, I'm on, I like Ingram a lot. I think he's going to maintain his kind of role when he gets back.

This is all projection, right? We're kind of just guessing. But that's my gut. and I'm I'm on board with Ingram this year I think he's going to still have a good season I mean the the Saints offense you're betting part of it is you're betting on the Saints offense and I feel comfortable doing that because they have

probably the most complete offense in the NFL you know with the way that they can run with Drew Brees under center I just think if you if you're discounting Ingram based on his suspension and then obviously Kamar I just think you're going to miss out on some value there so I like him there's so much time spent trying to find guys who were like oh maybe by like week four it'll be amazing and like won't ingram it's right there yeah just stash him on yeah whatever just stash him for four weeks but um all right so who you got next who's next guy in your mind so i think he's the most divisive of all jarvis landry yeah who is the human galaxy brain meme uh because you have

he really is because there's like the caveman brain was like he got 400 catches in four seasons it's an nfl record and like, he led the NFL with 112 catches and, like, also 9-187 yards, nine touchdowns, best slot receiver in football, like going to the NFL 100 they do in 2017, had him as like the seventh best receiver. And it's like, you know, it's like a cave membrane, like he's elite.

And then there's like the next level where it's like he catches all his balls near the line of scrimmage. And he's basically Brian Hartline, or like Devone Bess. And he had like 8.8 yards per catch or something, like third most targets. He was saved because he had the third most targets

in Gold to go and got nine touchdowns, but, like, has never been near that. But, I mean, he's a, he's a strangely used situational player. Scott Cashmer at Football Outsiders did a study entering last season. And they found that, like, of, like, the 28 players they measured over the, like, the previous four seasons. They found Landry was one of two players with negative correlation between his receptions and his team's passing DVOA. And the Dolphins have actually performed much better when he was not a focal point in the offense. That's interesting.

That was one of two. So he's like he's like the embodiment of the argument against PPR and why receptions should have value in their own right because his receptions don't create value. And then there's the next level entering this season where that's kind of the book on him so far. And then there's entering this season where people are like,

he's going to play outside more. Maybe that was just the result of the dolphins like baffling scheme and usage of him and he's actually skilled. And then the other thing against him this year, people kind of say like the level these weapons, but like, there's kind of like, you know, Cleveland has like two quarterbacks. They have like three qualified running backs, but they don't actually have a ton of

pass-catching competition against Landry. Like, we'll see if they bring in deads or not. But like right now, you're talking about Josh Gordon, who could not be more of a question mark. And then like Antonio Calloway, Richard Higgins, Jeff Janice, dudes that you kind of look at it. You're like, wait, like, you know, he's not going to get 160 targets last year, but like, he did, you know, last year. But he could get a lot of targets.

Yeah, he could get. Yeah. The back and forth between football people who really see that, like, he's the most overrated player. And then to the point where now he's, like, almost underrated, has been just kind of funny. So where do you land? I've actually fallen all the way down. I actually think he's kind of a good value right now. He's going 40 second overall on standard, 38 in PPR, which doesn't make sense.

But in PPR leagues, I wouldn't touch him in standard for where he's going. But PPR, I actually think he is undervalued now. I think that just because he doesn't actually, he's overrated in real football. In fantasy, he's actually being underrated right now. These, like,

wild swings in the narrative. I think it's funny how that has some, like, interplay with what happens in fantasy football because, you know, just kind of affects what people think. Because right now,

like, you're right. People see him as sort of a glorified checkdown guy, you know, their, his, his, you know,

critics or whatever. If it's third and 10, he's the best receiver in league history to get you five yards. And that's like the book on him But I mean I do think he's talented And he is really good after the catch I think he could be this team

He could be a red zone target for this team So I don't know I kind of like Landry I mean at that you know where he is now It doesn't seem that off to me I was so inspired by the speech He gave the receiver from hard knocks I just wanted to run through a war for the guy

So let's say bless him Bless him beat de Gauss him We gotta bless him No please don't do that You know? No it's not cool fucking lame. The new child, please.

It's just fucking annoying. Jim, that it bothers Jim, actually just makes me love it so much more. The next guy, Amory Cooper in Oakland. I don't know what the hell is think of Cooper, because I had him last year, and he was probably the most frustrating fantasy player, you know, in the NFL maybe.

Obviously, he had one game where he just went off and you kind of see his potential there and think that's kind of what he can do, you know? He's that talented. he was the fourth overall pick for a reason. He's a really good route runner and all that. But then he also was third, I think, in the NFL and drops. He had nine drops for football outsiders.

You know, he's just all over the map. The Raiders are all over the map. What the hell are we going to expect from John Gruden? You know, what's their offense going to look like? What's Jordy Nelson going to look like? We talked last week about how it seemed that John Gruden brought, and this is part of the Graziano report that you're mentioning, that Gruden seems like he brought in Jordy Nelson to be like a professional influence,

almost on Cooper because he just did not have a good year. And I'm torn because the reports really do seem to indicate that Cooper is going to be the focal point of the offense and he's going to be one of those. Of all the guys that you're going to look back on entering 2019, you're like, oh, I can't believe I didn't see that coming. And it's like a guy of Omar Cooper's

pedigree from Alabama, and you're like, oh, of course he was going to be good. How did we judge him so quickly? The other side is he was abysmal and he's kind of being drafted without enough of that quite baked in. You know what in. Like his ADP right now is 35, which is still super, I'm not, like in 2017 he was 101. Like he finished 101. Like he was wide receiver 36. Right now he's being drafted around

wide receiver 16. So it's not like last year is being baked into his thing. Like Sandy Watkins is, it is a little bit more. Like obviously there's still potential there. But with Amory Cooper, I don't feel like I'm getting enough value for a crappy he was last year to feel comfortable risking like a third or fourth round pick on the guy. It's like, how do you feel about Derek Carr, too? I mean, it's just like there's so many variables with Cooper. I ultimately, I think he's still worth taking because I think he's just going to get so much volume. I think he's, I think that Graziano is right.

Like, he's going to be, they're going to force feed him the football this year. And even if he has drops, I still think, you know, he doesn't have to compete with Michael Crabtree anymore. Obviously, Jordy Nelson's a factor. but I just think that I just think he's going to have so much volume that even if he's not that good like if he still struggles this year I think he could still have a big year.

You know who has a lot of volume? Derek Carr from John Gruden screaming in his ear all day. A real version of Gruden's quarterback camp as Robert Mays wrote on the ringer.com, which is a great website and I think that's all we got for today, D.K., right?

Yeah, why don't you take us out? Yeah, thank you guys so much. We appreciate it. And we'll be back next week. Thank you.