The Ringer NFL Show - Five Things That Matter From Training Camp

Episode Date: August 2, 2021

Kevin and Nora discuss five news nuggets from training camp that matter (2:44). Hosts: Kevin Clark and Nora Princiotti Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, I'm Shea Serrano. And I'm Brandon Jinks Jenkins. We have a new show called No Skips with Jinks and Shea. In it, we discuss the most unskippable albums in hip-hop history. New episodes drop on Thursdays, only on Spotify. It is the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark. I'm in Cleveland.

I'm joined by Norrel Prince Yaddy. Who is at? Well, I'll just let you say it, Nora. I'm in Long Island. I'm at a bachelor at party. Your second ever wedding? So it won't, it'll be my, actually it's going to be my fifth ever wedding. Wow.

When it rains a fours, really, truly. It is my third, no, it is my fourth ever wedding related event. The count as it stands right now is one wedding, two bachelorette parties, and a bridal shower. What a summer. What a summer. And to think all I'm doing is visiting the Steelers, the Browns, Buffalo Bills, stuff like that. Nobody's getting married here. Cool flex.

Nobody's getting married here. I'm just sitting around talking with Brandon Bean about golf. That's nice. That's good. They play a lot of golf in Buffalo. Yeah. Yeah. They pull a lot of golf in Buffalo. Great. Great weather for it in the summer. Yeah. And Josh Allen told me he played with Jim Nance at Cyprus,

which is one of the best courses in the world. And then the Jim Nance gave him the tour of Cyprus. It was like he knows every single plot of land, basically. And he had a story. Jim Nance had some stories. I want to be so happy for you because that must have been an incredibly fun conversation for you to be a part of.

I do feel compelled to mention that we are now at my outer limit for golf talk. And if we continue going, I will spontaneously come back. Can I tell you one more thing? Yeah, sure. Jim Nance, and this is not specific to Josh Allen, he's done this with other NFL stars, and other people, Jim Nance is like big, One of his big things, one of his fun things he does when he plays golf with people is he records them. And then he does play by play in the Jim Nance voice and then sends it to them.

So if you play golf with, if you play golf with Jim Nance, chances are, and I've seen it from a handful of people, chances are that you have on your phone, like, here's, here's Prince Yadie at five, like from Jim Nance. And he, like, really hams it up and stuff. That's incredible. Oh, that's good. That was worth continuing the golf talk. That's where I was going with it. I wasn't just going to tell you a boring story about Josh Allen. Although we got plenty of those.

Got plenty of those. I think we have exciting stories about Josh Allen. Let's get to it. All right. The rest of this podcast was recorded on Sunday night before the big news that emerged. Carson Wentz is out five to 12 weeks, which is a window I've never heard of before for foot surgery. He's going to have the bone taken out of his fifth metatarsal. There's a lot to unpack here.

This has massive ramifications for not only the AFC South Race, which the culture is supposed to be a part of. but a bunch of other places as well. So first of all, Frank Reich comes out and says that Jacob Easton has the job right now, but he's got to earn it. It says he's in the driver's seat. But Nick Foles is basically openly lobbying for trade, which says, right, he's a third stringer in Chicago. He says he's going to dice up third stringers right now until there's news.

But says Frank Wright's one of the favorite people in the world. Obviously, they have a great relationship going back to the Super Bowl. that coaching job with Foles and Rike and John D. Filippo and Doug Peterson is one of the best of all time, basically pairing down that offense and figuring out what Nick wanted to run in January of 2018 and winning the Super Bowl because of it, more and more RPO's.

There's a lot there to like about the Foles and Rike partnership if it has to happen early in the season. Jimmy Garoppolo has been, you know, kind of thrown out as a Hail Mary candidate. I don't think it's going to happen, especially because it'd be extremely expensive. Marcus Marriota, obviously, would be a candidate. And then standing pat would be a candidate. For Wence, obviously, if he's out 12 weeks, that impacts what the Eagles get for a draft pick.

He has to play 75% of his snaps this year in order for the Eagles to get their first round pick. So this has ramifications there. And then, you know, Wents might be back in the season. We don't know. the foot injury is not something you want to rush back, but obviously if it's only 12 weeks, that gives them some time to come back, even if you're taking it as slow as possible. So Frank Reich said today that Wenz had an old foot injury dating back to perhaps high school, according to doctors, some of the beatwriters said this, and then over time, the broken bone

came loose and caused what we have now. So obviously worrying the Colts, you know, we've done the best GM show a couple weeks ago and we all thought that Chris Ballard was the top five GM, nor thought he was the best in the league. This is his time to shine. This is why you get the best GM. So we'll see what the moves are made. Obviously, this opens up the AFC South a little bit because it lowers the

cold ceiling, but they still have a good roster, still have a good GM, still have a good coaching staff. But obviously their plan A has been scrapped at least for the beginning of the season. So maybe if there's a blessing that's to happen early in training camp so they can make these plans and kind of see who become. comes expendable as a third quarterback on a roster somewhere. But there's a lot of options and it starts now. We're going to do just five things that matter from some training camp.

Let's start with your number one, Nora. Well, okay. So can I ask you just before I do this to run our listeners down through where you've been? Who have you seen? Okay. So I've only, I'm in Cleveland now. And then I've seen Pittsburgh and Buffalo. I was going to go to Baltimore than when they had their,

their news. I rearranged that. So it's, it's early in camp. I'm doing Detroit after this, then Green Bay and the Minnesota and then a couple of other cities further down south. And so it's been amazing to just see live football and to talk about the one thing I've noticed, to be honest with you, is that last year sucked for everybody. Even if it was like some breakout season for somebody, it was just like everyone is just so happy. to be back to somewhat normal. And we have contact tracers in our pocket. And, you know, it's not,

there's still people to have some positive. We're going to get to that in a second. But it's, everybody's pretty relieved that the things are normal. So, yeah, that's where we are. That's great to hear. And I just, I wanted the right, I actually wasn't sure what your stops have been.

So I wanted the right context about which teams I can really about in person. So my number one thing so far, we just haven't talked about Aaron Rogers together on a podcast. So I wasn't going to let us not do it. one of the most incredible press conferences I've ever witnessed, hilarious and entertaining. But here's my observation. I guess it's an observation that begs a question, which is who lost because of Aaron Rogers getting up on a podium for 30 minutes and just answering questions honestly about what

happened and how he feels about it? Because I allege no one. Right. Because I know like the Packers took some strays over the course of that 30 minutes and there were great quotes and they turn it to memes and Aaron Rogers holds a grudge and all that. Like totally. Sure. In terms of content, absolutely get it. Putting all of that stuff out in the open, though, the only thing that I can think of is that it totally takes the teeth out of it. Like, you know what's not going to happen? I mean,

people are going to bring it up again, but it's not no longer a cloud that hangs over them because there are some real ways in which, like, okay, if he's considering that it's, pretty likely he could leave next off season. That's a huge deal for that organization. All the players are going to think about it. Everybody's going to think about it. But when you just address it, it all of a sudden seems so much less scandalous.

It just feels like less sort of tantalizing to talk about when everybody who's involved is just like, yeah, so here's what happened. So this observation is really my plea for less BS. but I found it incredibly refreshing, incredibly entertaining. But the important thing is that I just don't think that that is somehow additional drama for Green Bay. I think if anything, it actually makes it easier for them to deal with that story and situation going forward that he just kind of put it all out there. Do you think that there's logic to that? So Kyla Murray came out and said that he thought that that was great.

And I wonder, I don't think Aaron Rogers is a completely different quarterback. from anyone else in the league. And no one is going to be the next Aaron Rogers as far as, hey, I want out, I'm going to do this. Russell Wilson is not going to do this. If you think this is the new playbook for quarterbacks, I assure you it's not. Aaron Rogers is different.

But I kind of think the quarterbacks around the league who are unhappy with the situation. I'm not saying Kyler is, but I'm just saying he literally voiced his support. But I'm saying that they probably let out a little fist pump. And when you put it like that, I completely agree with you. I really don't think anybody lost

because we already knew the state of play. It was just spelled out now. And there's no room for interpretation. And this is what we were talking about. I mean, Schaefter said it. I've agreed with him a couple times that Aaron was going to have to get his hands dirty in order to actually get out

and actually to spell out what was going on. And this is the best of both worlds because I don't really think he got his hands dirty. He didn't really, he didn't murder anybody on live television with his words. He just kind of needleed people. And he said what it needed to be said. And I also think there's an implement.

implication there. And this is, this is an important part. There's an implication there that he's just going to keep doing this. And if he doesn't like what's going on, that we're going to have another press conference like this next week, two weeks from now, three weeks now. And that, I think, is the most important part in him exerting his influence that this might not be the end of something. This might not be the end of the summer for Aaron. This might be the beginning of something. It's going to be a season where he just does this all the time and says exactly what's on his mind. And, I mean, he already got one wide receiver out of it. By the way, I did see Jake Kumero in Buffalo yesterday.

I was going to ask. Yeah, he looked fine. Incredible. The biggest winner in all of this is Jake Kumero. Is Rodgers going to get him back now? I don't know. He's probably made Jake Kumero some money in the grand scheme of things at some point. Made him more famous, certainly.

But I also say that, you know, With regards to some of his, the guys he listed that were released that he implied he didn't agree with, you know, I, it's been, quarterbacks are going to have that problem going forward. I remember in 2014, I think, I wrote a story about how he, you know, the team got so young. And all, base golf, his friends were, were gone to the point that he, nobody saw the same movies as him. Nobody got the same references as him. And in this era of quarterbacks, we're just getting older and older and older, while teams by and large, get younger.

Younger. Because of the rookie pay scale. I mean, like, I've written about that. I mean, if you look, I think it's about NFL teams about four years younger than they used to be, because of, on average, because of the way that that's going. And so you're just going to have quarterbacks at the kids table all the time. And I think that the fact that he wants Randall Cobb back, the fact that he wants a more veteran-laden team is a really interesting move.

So I actually agree it was for Rogers, the perfect, the perfect move. Jake Cumerrell looking good. He looked great. It looked great. Yeah, the Packer should trade. All right. Well, what's your first? How about this?

How about Nick Chubb signing a three-year, $36 million extension with the Browns, $20 million dollars guaranteed? There's a lot to like about Nick Chub. I saw this stat the other day from ESPN from Jay Trotter. He averaged 10 yards per carry in the fourth quarter last year. Yeah. It's pretty unreal. I beg your pardon.

He averaged 5.6 yards per carry last year in total, according to 33rd team, despite facing an eight-man box 31% of the time. I have, this is not the Zeke Elliott contract that's going to haunt them for years. it's more, it's more, you know, teams are paying running backs. And there's an expectation now that we know what that looks like. We know that it's going to be decent guaranteed money. It's going to be shorter extension. ERAP reported that Chubb wanted to be able to reach free agency at 29 or do a new deal at 28,

which I think is important for the player because hopefully he's still having productive seasons by then, running back ages, you know, ages really quickly. And then, you know, this is, this is, I think, going to be fine. The tightest with Derek Henry. I'm to the point that, first of all, Nick Chubb is probably the best running back in the NFL. But I'm to the point that I'm no longer getting mad at running back extensions because I think that there's a, there's a culture building aspect to it, to be honest with you. And this is something I've talked to front office people about.

I think you have to pay them a certain amount of money just. because they are a really important part of your teams, especially last year with Chubb. But B, you can't just, I feel like, and I'm guilty, as guilty of this as anybody with the analytics thing. And it's like, okay, well, never pay a running back. Just find an undrafted for a seventh round pick. I mean, only have a quarterback on a rookie pay scale, whatever. And you lose, I think, the human element a little bit.

I do not value running backs as an individual position, league. wide, but I do see the value in paying a guy like Nick Chubb this amount of money, especially with the rising cap. I don't think this is a, you know, this is not a bad contract. I saw some people on Twitter saying that they were, you know, any, any extension like this is a bad move for running back. And I just think that the teams in this scenario know what they're doing, just the answer. Barry. It's just not that much money. That's the thing. 12.2 average. He'll rank Fifth at the position, guarantee, six, that the average per year.

And he's the best running back in the league. This is great. It's just, it's pretty cheap. I would even, I mean, I agree with everything that you said, but honestly, my reaction to it was like, that's kind of a steal. So here are the top paid running backs in the NFL. Christian McCaffrey at 16.

Zeke at 15. Camara 15. Cook 12. Henry 12, Chubb. Well, so the Cook Henry Chub class seems right. Joe Mixon is at 12 as well. So it seems to me McCaffrey's is different because I first of all. He's getting paid to basically be a receiver.

Yes. He's being paid to be an offensive weapon, as they like to say. And then Zique just won a negotiation with Jerry Jones. Congratulations to Zinclair. He deserves all of the money you can get from Jerry Jones. And then Kamara, who's with McCaffrey. And that's, again, different. So it looks to me like the $12 million market rate for an elite running back seems right.

And I think in the modern NFL, that that's fine to me. And I would pay $12 million to Nick Chub many times over. I, too, would give Nick Chub $12 million. Yeah. All right. Your number two? Zach Wilson and the Jets. This doesn't really matter.

Zach Wilson was the last first round working to sign. It missed a camp practice. They had a little kerfuffle over offset language, which is standard stuff. They put it in. Very few teams don't require it. It's fine. This isn't a big deal.

It probably doesn't matter at all. However, I just need the Jets as they're rebuilding with what I would say looks like a really solid infrastructure. Nucleus management to build around, build with, to run that organization. I just need them to not make me nervous. You know? Like, I need fewer things where my reaction is,

why is it always the Jets? I don't, do you think I'm ridiculously off base here? It's just because this is basically a non-event. It's just that every time I read about it, I went, God, why? Why? So there's a lot to unpack here. Number one is that they ended up not matter. You're correct.

and he only missed a couple of days, a couple reps. He flew from L.A. Mitchell Schwartz, the great offensive lineman, was actually in my mentions the other day because I made a joke about how if he could take the L.A. to New York Red Eye and still practice after that, which he did, that that's incredible. Because I've taken that L.A. to New York Red Eye and not ready to do anything, alone in NFL practice.

And Mitchell actually said he should have been in the area and that it was probably a negotiating tactic to have him in L.A. and, you know, I'm not, I'm not ready to be there, but he probably should have been there just to have, to get some extra time in. Anyway, um, I, I think, which, hold on. It's not important, but it's not nothing.

Just, just to be clear here, like, training camp practices are not like, DefCon one for a rookie quarterback. It's not an, it's not an absolute nothing to skip a few of that. Right. Um, and so I, I'm not, I don't think it's a top. sort of big deal. I think Zach Wilson is going to be a really good quarterback.

And I think that this is something that I've talked about. I was on a Jets podcast a couple weeks and I mentioned it on this podcast. But the measurement of Wilson, because that team has so much work to do, it's not going to be obvious. It's not going to be stats. It's going to be, you know, Robert Sala building a culture, that young core taking a step forward. And so I think that I agree all the help you can get for, for Zach Wilson is important.

I'm not too bothered. I mean, it's not even August. This is not a boza situation. This is not a, I remember the first time I ever covered, Ted Ginn was holding out, and he showed up like halfway through training camp. This is not one of those situations.

I'm, I was rolling my eyes at the Jets, but I think it's okay. All right. Thank you for quelling my Jets anxiety. I just don't want, I just don't think, I think if you're a Jets fan,

you're fine that he's in, he's in camp. I mean, just imagine if you got picked up a turf toe and missed a couple of things. It's the same thing. It's fine. Speaking of missing practices, it's a big deal that Kirk Cousins,

it's a big deal that Kirk Cousins is a close contact of Kellyn Monde and the Lamar Jackson is out for a number of practices. So there are different situations. Lamar Jackson tested positive. Kirk Cousins is just a close contact. He's not going to be back till next week. The Vikings had one quarterback at their Saturday night practice. and that's important.

You know, I'm going around the league, and one of the things I'm talking about with guys is how, how, disastrous is the wrong word because they may, they may do, but how screwed up last year was. And how many different situations that they got in where they were like, man, this is just not, this is just not real football.

And the more you can make 2021 completely different from 2020, the better off you'll be. And I just think this is, uh, from, from a, you know, Mike Zimmer ripped Kirk Cousins a lot without saying his name. He just said it was really disappointed. The people weren't vaccinated, all that stuff. And by the way, just so everyone knows, if you're vaccinated, you don't have to do the close contact five days thing. Right.

And so he would not have had to do that. He wouldn't, I don't even think I was reading the rules last night. He wouldn't even have to get tested if he was vaccinated, let alone have to sit out for multiple practices. And I just think there's. When I'm talking to guys about Zoom last year, I mean, first of all, the hoops that the coaches and players had to go through just to get to feel normal when you're not in practice. Like I was talking to a coach who was saying that he was, they would, you know, he would have his quarterback call their receivers on speaker phone when they were on Zoom so that then they could do, they could patch in different people and pretend like they're doing audibles. And just he was like, it's not, it's not anything. It was just shots in the dark.

And I think that the fact that you can get back to normal and that there are people who are not taking advantage of that in a football sense, I think it's disappointing Mike Zimmer. And it's, you know, I mean, listen, there's a whole, just a human part of it, it's extra that's not going to be on my top five training camp important things here. But I just, I just think that there's a reason that Mike Zimmer is pretty upset from a football standpoint. point. And that's it. It's night and day between vaccinated and unvaccinated at training camp. The NFL is forcing without forcing. And there's a good reason to do that. And I just think we're going to see more of this where unvaccinated players, and I felt coach is extremely mad at their unvaccinated players. I see that coming to a head. Yeah, I think, I mean, Ron Rivera is another coach who was vocally pretty upset with the vaccination.

rates on his team. I'll move to, I'll flip the, these aren't in ranked order, unless yours are, mine aren't, but I'll flip the order that I was going to do these in because one of mine is just that, so on Friday, according to the New York Times, 80.5% of NFL players had received at least one dose of a vaccine, which obviously not all of this is, this is not a story that is going away anytime soon, right? Like, we're going to hear about it all through training camp. We're hearing about it now. a lot of teams are having issues isolated or not. Coaches are speaking about their displeasure with players or fellow coaches who, if they're not vaccinated, are having to jump through all these hoops that are causing competitive disadvantages.

But we should also recognize the big picture here. 88.5% is a number that the U.S. government would give its left arm for, probably some other limbs as well. It's a fascinating case study, if nothing else, right? Because, again, this is not over. This story is not going away. But the NFL has kind of remarkably effectively, in my view, made it so that the incentives are so high that teams are all just kind of doing it.

the vast majority of players are just doing it. Coaches basically cannot do their jobs if they don't get vaccinated. Obviously, people have a lot of strong opinions about that. But the extent to which it's happening, I mean, again, they've surpassed the goals that we've set for ourselves as a country. So it's just fascinating to see, you know, a private business in act to that. And I guess it's something that will help teams. have their people available to them, right?

But it's also just an interesting little case study. Yeah, totally. And, you know, I've been going through this, you know, driven from Newark to Cleveland over the past couple of days. And the NFL facilities are incredible with this stuff. We have contact tracers. We have, if you're indoors, you're incredibly socially distanced. You have to wear a mask when you're indoors.

I did it yesterday in Buffalo. I didn't, I actually forgot my mask. And your buddy, Catherine Fitzgerald gave me a mask. KF. Yeah, yeah. She gave me a mask. Because I didn't know we were going inside. I didn't know we were going inside.

Then the bills were done. She gave me a mask. Anyway, long story. So I just think that, yeah, I think that as obviously numbers are going up in the country and I think that you're going to see, I agree with you as far as the case study goes, it's good that they've reached that vaccination. Listen, there were players, I'm not going to certainly not going to say anything about names here.

But there were players who were big, big deal players that I heard in mid July were not vaccinated. And by the time training camp came around, they were. And I don't know what that is. I don't know if that's, I don't know if that's the NFL putting out those new protocols. I don't know if that's just them changing their mind. Whatever it is, anecdotally, even though there are stars who haven't been vaccinated. anecdotally, there were a lot of stars who obviously changed their mind. And I don't know.

I don't know what that is. All right, Zavian Howard's trade request. This is a big deal. This is a big, big deal. So Zavian Howard is crucially important to everything we've talked about with the dolphins for the past couple of years. He's a homegrown superstar. When that contract was signed, five years, $72 million.

He is the number five paid quarterback in the NFL. was at one point number one. Cap hits after this year of 2 million and 1 million. Yearly cash is 12, 12 and 12 going through 2024. You know, this is for a guy who's a second round pick who showed out, they obviously signed Byron Jones opposite him last year to sort of accentuate the rebuild there. I think that I think the dolphins need to do everything they can to keep them. because this would reset the timetable.

I understand, by the way, Byron Jones making $14 million this year. Right. But I understand the need to, they will get offers. They will get legitimate offers, especially even if they have to, the team that gets them has to renegotiate,

you still want one of the best cornerbacks in football. Yeah. But I feel like the dolphins, I know this is going to sound crazy because we're all with a long game here in the NFL show. I don't think you can get, You're not going to get fair value.

You're going to get the two first round picks thing that everybody else gets for superstars in this league or one first round pick and a bunch of twos or whatever. But the dolphins, I expect a lot out of the dolphins this year. And Zavian Howard needs to be a part of that. And I don't, I understand, like, you know, if we're going by the Belichick value thing here, he wouldn't deal Zavian Howard yet.

He would deal Zavian Howard two years from now. And so I would do everything I can to, put a band-aid on this and just get Xavier and Howard to not have a trade request and just get him happy. Yeah, I mean, so Zaving Howard is more at the pinnacle of his career at this point than Stefan Gilmore is. But in two similar defenses, there's a slightly similar situation going on. And one thing that I found myself thinking about is, okay, yes, Bill Belichick, for example, and that's someone who Brian Flores learned from to a degree

doesn't like to sort of capitulate to antics, what have you. Not saying that that's what David Howard's actions amount to, also not saying that that's what Stefan Gilmore's actions amount to. It's a fallacy that that's not sort of,

that that's just a blanket application. Even in these very sort of results oriented, no nonsense locker rooms, it matters who you are. It matters the star power of the player. And particularly it matters how much the team can sort of compensate for your absence. Right. So in that defense particularly, a shutdown like Incredible Man corner basically unlocks what the rest of the defense is trying to do.

It's really, really, really hard to do that if you're not getting high level play there. in a way that in that system, they can scheme pressure. They don't need, you know, world beater defense events. They can figure that out. It's not that they wouldn't like to have them, but they can figure that stuff out. Right now, the way that those defenses are playing is predicated on really, really good secondary play

and particularly having one of the better cornerbacks in football, at least one. So I see a little bit of a correlation where, yes, obviously, neither one of those teams is in the business of doing stupid stuff. But you do have to recognize who the player is, not just in terms of where they fall as best in their position, top five, whatever, but what that role means to the defense in the team as a whole. And I think that gives both of those players, you know, just a little extra shot of leverage because things would look really,

really different without them. It's funny because it's both those things. because in some in some teams, oh, we really needed an athletic linebacker they can, you know, unlock when we're in nickel, right? But it's pretty obvious

that all 32 teams would want Xavier and Howard. 10 interceptions last year, first players in San Antonio Carmardi to do that. This is from next gen stats. Since 2017, he's number one passer rating allowed 50, 55, 55, he turns every quarterback into Nathan Peterman.

21 interceptions first, obviously. and they have something called ball hawk percentage, which I've never heard of, but it sounds cool. And he's first in that. I don't know what ball hawk percentage is, but I have a pretty good idea. And Xavier Howard is number one. So that's it. What's your next one? Well, actually, so I had Xavier Howard on my list as well.

So we can just, we can skip to my last one. Skip it. Bill Belichick, Cam Newton is our starting quarterback. that that is that is both a quote issued all right well so here's the timeline this is this that's what i was going to ask you is does this seem fake so here are your relevant events uh mac jones is drafted in the first round after that night of the draft bill bellichick says cams are starter okay cams the starter we go through the spring the summer first practice the training camp right when training camp is opening in new england uh someone i follow and trust is phil perry from nbcccc

sports Boston. To his eye, the first day of camp, Mack Jones was the better quarterback. Bill in his opening press conference said something about every role is up for grabs. Everybody has to work for their position, their status, their snaps, whatever. And that seems to indicate some kind of shift from the previous statement of cams are starter. Cam was the starter. Now everything's up for grabs. Now everything's an open competition. Let's go. then the second practice on Thursday, Cam has a better day, and Bill again says Cam Newton is our starting quarterback.

So my question to you, Kevin, all seems fake, shouldn't be reading into this? Because I think, I felt like that was a significant-ish statement. So first of all, Cam Newton says that he was surprised at Mack Jones' hip-hop knowledge, which I think is an overlooked story of the first week. Yeah. It's hard for me to, and this is something that I wish I didn't do, but we all do it because we're football fans.

To read everybody's tweets, B-Writers, fans, whatever, and parse what Mac Jones looks like, because that's what we're going off of right now. Jeff Hally the other day said he had some perfect throws, Mac Jones. And I wonder, we don't know Bill Belichick's young quarterback philosophy because we never seen it. because even though he championed Tom Brady, I just read a book called The Dynasty by Jeff Benedict, and he obviously knew what he had in Brady pretty early on to the fact. Everyone thought that Heward was going to be the backup in the event Bledsoe went down, and that obviously wasn't the case.

But it's not like we have a long history of Bill Belichick with young quarterbacks. So it's possible that for a guy who values veterans who know exactly, what they're doing to kind of do your job mentality. It's possible he doesn't want a young quarterback, a rookie quarterback out there. That is possible. But I'll also say that I think that right now, any proclamations are fake.

So I was talking to one of the coaches at one of the spots I was at. And we were off the record, a tape recorder in the pocket, not recording anything. And I just said, is there anybody you've seen so far that you need to look,

I need to be looking out for. And he was like, until there's pads, we have no idea. And you're just, you're basically a preseason magazine if you're saying, hey, look out for this guy because it's all based on last year. And it's all based on name or whatever because even in OTAs, they don't know. And they think they have ideas on guys, but they actually don't know. And NFL coaches are pretty hesitant to identify anybody who's good, anybody who's bad. because it's such a, I know this is a cliche, but it really is a year-to-year league.

And some guy may have, lost of Stapri, may have gained 10 pounds and it didn't work for him, or he tried to lose 10 pounds and it didn't work for him. And so I think that any proclamations made on July 31st, August 1st, which is today, any proclamations like that are early, and that includes Bill Belichick's. I think that's fair. I just think that they the time exists for a reason. Like I've heard that spiel

from a bunch of coaches. But it's true. It's true. You've heard it. You know what? I don't know that it's totally true. Like, okay. Then why do they have the practices?

This is not install time in the same way that Minning Camp is installed time. But no, but they don't even have, in most places they don't even have pads on yet. They don't have a sample. They have Mac Jones throwing to, on air right now. You know, they've got Mac Jones throwing to Hunter Henry on a nice New England Saturday.

But I think that any proclamations about anything are to work. I think prok, but what is a proclamation, right? Like, yes, making a definitive statement. I don't think, I don't think Cam Newton is anything other than written in pencil was a starter. Okay. And you don't think that either one of those players could have made any sort of meaning. full progress at this point. I think, okay, I remember Brian Billick saying this,

and I think about it all the time. He said, you don't know if a rookie can play on the first day of training camp, second day of training camp, but you know if he can't. And so I actually think Mack Jones could have lost. I know this is, this is like sounding like, you can't win a baseball pennant in April, but you sure can't lose it.

But that actually is how coaches view it. You cannot prove yourself in July, without pads, but you certainly can unprove yourself, if that makes sense. And Mack Jones has acquitted himself quite nicely, it appears. But I'm just not sure that that binary, like, actually exists where if you're not proving yourself, you're doing nothing. I think you can take meaningful steps forward through practice time where the whole team's there for the first time, like, actually working together in several months. I think it's, I think that's true, but I think it's negligible. I don't, I don't think you can make that much of a leap in the first few days of

training camp. I do not. This is my take. All right. Well, then we're quibbling over the degree of like what would be a significant leap. I just, this is like, I think every year there's all this stuff about like training camp doesn't matter, training camp doesn't matter. And there are a zillion examples of people who, you know, undrafted rookies who look really good in camp are identified as looking really good in camp. We do six rounds of, oh, this doesn't matter. This doesn't matter. And then those are the undrafted rookies who make the team. Like, it's not people use their eyes to evaluate these things just as the coaches do. The coaches are better at it.

But everybody's looking at the same thing. It's not like there's a force field where nobody can figure out what's going on just because it's training camp. I think this gets overstated every year. All right. Let me tell you about a little training camp because I've seen teams with pads because I was in Pittsburgh and they started practice early. So they were in pads because they're playing in the Hall of Fame game. It's not because they just love football. And it couldn't wait to get out there.

I'm choosing to believe the alternative. Bill Belichick hates football. That's why they're on pads. It's not the CBA. Yep. People are really excited in Pittsburgh about Pat Friarmouth. That's going to be a great chant because they're just going to say Mooth. I think they're probably just going to say Heath.

I think they're probably just going to say Heath. So first of all, he's from Massachusetts. Do you know him? Yeah, we're best friends. He's from North Andover, Massachusetts. into a school called the Brook School, which sounds expensive. I actually can confirm. And anything that just says anything with the school afterwards is expensive, in my opinion.

But when I was talking to people there, that was the one thing that jumped out because I don't know. It's funny because I saw a bunch of fantasy people ask me about him after I was there. And with Ben, I just, I don't know. I'm you know we have a whole fantasy football podcast it can help you a little bit more but with Ben first of all Ben is not working a whole lot um he had some off days he's doing load management you know I was talking to someone there um we were just BSing but Ben Rothsberger is about to have the longest season in the history of football because he's playing in the hall

his team is playing in the hall fam game he's not going to play in the hallfame game um so the training camp starts early and then they're going to play 17 games um they haven't committed to load management of ben rothisberger but certainly in training camp, you're not going to give him a lot of reps. So I didn't see, Haskins was getting a lot of work on the first day I was there. Obviously, Mason Rudolph was getting work on the first day I was there. And so I don't know what that's going to look like as far as numbers go,

but I think he's going to be open a lot. I think he's going to be open a lot. I think he's going to be open all the time. And I think he is just, again, from the fact that I saw only one team of pads so far because of the way the CBA is. I'll have much more pad reports. And because Pittsburgh loves football. Yeah, I'll have many more pad reports

this time next week. He was a guy that jumped out to me. I would say, you know, I don't think there's any, in Pittsburgh in general, I don't think there's any illusions but the situation, which is a, and I know this sounds like the most basic kind of, you know, Athlon Sports 1993 cover of all time,

But it's like they'll go as their quarterback goes because this is probably probably Ben's last year. They're going to have a ton of cap space next year. And I think that they have a lot of questions that they have to answer. Obviously, they're going to get T.J. Watt done at some point. They have roster talent. But this is going to be the arm of a 39-year-old Ben Rathesberger and whether or not what part of last year was real. I don't, you don't think they're going to be very good. I tend to agree with you. But I think that whenever I asked anybody in Pittsburgh what was going on, the answer was

some form of fashion of Ben. Ben's going on. And either, either he's up for it or he's not. Sure. I mean, that's fair. I maintain, I don't think that they're going to be very good, but they've been really good for a long time. No, I don't think they're going to be very good. I'm just saying the only path forward to them being very good is Ben being decent. That's it. Anything, any concern about the, the DAC shoulder? Yeah. I think any time you have a,

you have a player with a fairly significant injury history and stuff keeps piling up, like, that's not just a thing to say. That's something that, you know, if you talk to trainers, you talk to NFL medical staff, the best way to predict future injuries or lack thereof is what a person's injury history is up to that point. Like, it's a little bit hard to pin down exactly why, but players who get hurt a lot get hurt a lot.

So I would not say that it's unconcerning, but doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Yes. All right. So my last thing is Carson Wentz, which may end up being the biggest, the biggest part of it. So Matt Eberfluse is talking for the, for Frank Reich now, because Reich is obviously out with COVID. He didn't have a timetable. He didn't have any new information. So Mike Silver reported that Wentz felt a pop.

This might involve, it's one of those injuries that you just read the tea leaves on it and you get more worried that, you know, By the way, involves a ligament and bone? Yes. Can I interrupt and just ask you if heard a pop is like the number one power ranked phrasing for that anxiety spiral of the more you hear, the more worries you get about it? Have you ever heard a pop? No, I have actually a very clean injury history. but the phrase he heard a pop just like really makes me nervous. I, huh.

Okay, so I've broken all of my limbs at one point or another, but I've never heard a pop. It's bad. This seems bad for Carson once. Yeah. You've broken all of your limbs at one, but I, I fractured my wrist. It's called living. It's called living. I fractured my wrist in seventh grade.

That's my most significant injury. It's called, if you haven't broken all of your limbs, I question how much you've done with your life. Kevin, that's an incredibly weird thing to say. Whether or not you dropped in on a half-pipe skateboarding when you weren't ready for it, whether or not you fall on in Central Park while running, all sorts of things. I have fallen in Central Park while running, but I didn't think anything. So I was in the street right south of Central Park, and then I tripped on the curb. I won't get into particulars of it.

And I fell, but it was like 5 p.m. on like a Friday. So, like, everybody was on the curb. And so I just ran into Central Park at a pure, I did like a roll and they got back up. And then I just kept running into Central Park at a pure embarrassment. And then when I got around the reservoir, I realized I couldn't move my arm. And I was like, that can't be good. Yeah. Yeah.

I knew it hurt. But then I was like, well, I'm fine. I'm just going to keep running. So people who saw me fall cannot identify me as the guy who fell. Anyway, tough one. All right. This is a big deal. So I saw some Eagles fans of anxiety.

first of all at the front end, he's unvaccinated. We didn't know who's going to miss time or whatever. And then maybe that would lead to not having a first round pick. Now you have, now you have the injury. So from that part of it, obviously there's some discussion. But from the Colts part of it, this is a much bigger deal. I mean, I don't, I'm not going to make the health question entirely about whether or not the Eagles get value for their quarterback trade.

this is this is some this is the colts x factor this is all i mean this is this is a different version of ben rathesberger either they have a good quarterback or they don't um the team signed brett hunley obviously they have jacob jacob esin in colts camp um they have a couple of rookies there i just don't for a team that is prepared for a team that it has one of the best jams of football something we've done this is what we were talking about when i was saying when we're handicapped in the Colts, that you don't want your question mark to be quarterback. And Carson Wentz gets hurt a lot.

He has been unhealthy for large parts of his career. And so they knew that. That was part of the reason that he had his downfall in Philadelphia. And so I just hope for everybody that Wents can get back healthy. Yep. I know that's right. Also, I mean, just foot injuries. Foot injuries in general.

We've seen this with quarterbacks. it's a big deal. It's okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to sound like an idiot here, but the inability to push off. Lower body is so important. I don't want to sound like Trent Dofer here,

but lower body is so important. And if you have an injured foot, that's the kind of thing that's going to affect you all year. And it's the kind of thing, frankly, when he throws three interceptions in November that we find out in February, while he was battling that foot the whole time,

battling that foot. You do not want a foot injury. So this is a big deal. You don't want a foot injury because of the parts of mechanics and the parts of quarterback play that it gets in the way of. You also don't want a foot injury because I don't know if this is going to be breaking news to anybody. You use your feet a lot and you actually put a lot of weight on them. They have tricky recovery processes for all sorts of athletes. But in terms of quarterbacks, you're not just managing pain and discomfort.

That stuff bleeds into fundamental base skills incredibly quickly. So it's not great. The only quarterback injury you want is a torn MCL like Tom Brady. You actually want it. You're rooting for that torn MCL. It's part of the narrative. My favorite thing about Tom Brady is that they were questioning him why he was, why he skipped, why he didn't put the MCL thing on the injury report.

And he was like, well, I thought everybody knew. What a guy. What a guy. All right. Anything else? That's all I got, Kev. We're going to be back with more nuggets later in the week. love nugs.

I'll have hopefully more paddy practices, hopefully more insights, hopefully more interviews. I'm going to have the Josh Allen piece will be up on Monday. A couple other things coming at you in the next few days, good interviews that I've gotten,

whether that's in person or on the phone. Nora, what do you have this week, bud? I've got a story about kind of the off season, how it came to be in the first place in some ways and ways in ways. which people are rethinking it a little bit, trying to learn some lessons of the last year plus from that. That's coming up.

Got a couple other things in the works that I will tease at a later date, but are exciting and should be cool. That's a pre-tease. That's a pre-tease. Can't tease them yet. Can't tease until you've done the pre-tees. And then I will let everybody know that next Saturday I will be attending my second wedding.

What a summer. It's, yeah. What a summer? Love. Love is in the air. All right. I'm just going to go talk to Andrew Barry instead. All right. Well, I got to be a bridesmaid. Well, okay. Tell him hi for me.

Oh, okay. This has been the Ringer NFL show and the Ringer Podcast Network. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely for producing an additional production help by Arjuna Ramkipple.