The Ringer NFL Show - For Real at .500, Shaq’s Big Splash, and Khalil Mack’s Revenge | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: October 3, 2019

Robert Mays and Kevin Clark take a look at .500 teams (02:00), Tampa Bay striking gold with Shaq Barrett (13:00), the biggest three games of Week 5 (22:00), and Khalil Mack’s return to Oakland (36:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, friends. Welcome to the trailer for The Road Taken with CT and Bayo. I'm Bayo, aka Chris Bayo. I've watched Chris bring his sunny positivity and shredding baselines to stages all around the world for the past 13 years in the band Vampire Weekend. And I'm CT, which is short for Chris Thompson. For the past 13 years, you've been my sneakily dark rhythm section partner. We've embarked on a massive world tour and are excited to experience all the thrills and boredom.

That entails. To help us process our own experiences along the way, we'll be having conversations with peers, idols, and maybe a rando or two. The Road Taken with CT&Bail, part of the Ringer podcast network, coming soon on all podcast platforms. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. Kevin, how you doing, buddy?

Redskins, Patriots Week. What's the spread on that? I actually haven't seen it. It's about two touchdowns. I got to tell you, I cannot. That's not enough. get enough of Belichick trying to hype up the Redskins. It's one of his greatest challenges of all time.

But in this particular instance, Jay Gruden is not playing along. Like, and sometimes, like, I remember one time the dolphins were one in 15, or was that one of 15 season season. And Belichick said Ronnie Brown is best played. It's, you know, a year. I remember one year the dolphins were terrible. And Belichick hyped up John Denny, the long snapper. So it's stuff like that where he picks it out.

So he kind of, he went off on how good the offense was. designed this week and then Jay Gruden did his press conference with the Patriots media and he was like, I don't know what our plan is a quarterback. And then he just like, he was just like, I don't know what I'm doing. He couldn't even let Belichick hype him up. So if we're kind of running down

the greatest kind of obstacles that Bill Belichick has ever had to face in his coaching hyping up the Redskins. Let's say number one is the Rams in the 2011 Super Bowl. Number two is probably the Bills in that Super Bowl because that Bill's office is really good. And number three is probably hyping up this Redskins team.

week, right? I actually put the Redskins at two. Really? Yeah. But the Rams are still good enough that that Marshall Fault team, he was the top spot. Yeah, the greatest show on turf is still really hard. But number, number, yeah, number two is definitely trying to figure out something nice to say. We've talked about the very bad teams in recent weeks.

We've talked about the very good teams as we do all the time. Today, we were going to start off the show by talking about the teams in the middle because it is a two and two league right now for the most part. There are entire divisions that are two and two. there are entire subsects of, you know, contenders in certain conferences that are two and two. So we're going to talk about that two and two group. Some of the teams we feel like are going to come out of it. Some of the teams we feel like are going to fall back.

So, Kevin, why don't we start off with the team you feel the best about among that two and two crowd moving forward this season? I think it'd probably still have to be at this point from what we've seen. I want to just take a step back here before I say the team name. When I think about this, there's two separate groups of two. and two teams that I feel good about. One are the teams that are okay and have been in two and two and two and weathered the storm and I expect better things of them. And then there's another team, there are other teams that have looked good while going two and two. And I would actually put the Ravens in the second group because I think they've obviously done some really nice things,

even though they're two and two. And I would put a team like the Eagles in the first group, which is they have not looked like the Eagles, but they're two and two and I expect better things going forward for them. So I would say those two are the teams I've circled. Ravens still, I understand they did not have the best week last week. Obviously, they lost the Chiefs, two very good losses, I would say. But they're still scoring on 53% of their drives, which is behind only the Chiefs, 3.19 points per drive, which I believe is tops in the NFL. And the Eagles still have a lot of roster talent. So I believe in those two teams, they're very different two and two teams. But I think that those, if I'm taking bets on which teams can still contend at two and two, it would be them, followed then,

of course, by the Browns, who I still really believe in as a playoff team. Yeah, I think that group, and then the other one I would throw in there for me is Carolina, because I've really started, I've maintained my belief in just the overall roster that they have. And I went back and watched that game that they played against the Texans earlier this week, and so many things just jump out to you about them on film. And Luke Keekely, it's unbelievable watching him just direct traffic. there was a play that I think really kind of encapsulates them. And I believe it was in the second quarter. And it ended with a Shaq Thompson sack.

And Shaq Thompson was out of his mind last week. He played awesome. So beyond the talent of guys like him and the way Brian Burns is playing everything else, you have Keekly just directing where everyone should go. And there was a play on that Shaq Thompson sack. He like threw the slot corner at the right receiver when like in the middle of the play. And then he dropped to the exact right spot to cut off. another route that was coming behind him.

It's so interesting because I feel like their defense is really able to sustain them. And they're even better than I thought they were going to be because in there, in years past when Steve Wilkes was there and when Rivera was kind of helping with that defense, they were really kind of passive. They didn't blitz very often. They were, uh, send four drop seven team. And they've really been able to kind of split the difference of sending people while still being sound on the back end because Kikley puts everybody in the right spot.

Yep. And I feel like that's made. them really dangerous. They're hard to predict, but they're still really sound and teams that that balance is difficult to find. And with the talent they have, I just think their defense is a chance to be even better than I thought it was going to be. So with them, with that in mind with them and Philly, I just think that Carson Wentz is playing awesome right now and he doesn't have anybody to throw this ball to. Yep. And there are a couple drops away from being a lot better than two and two. I want to unpack the Panthers for a second. So I went down to Carolina during

training camp. I talked to Ron Rivera a lot and we talked a lot about Shaq Thompson. And just by sort of coincidence, I had long discussions with Steve Wilkes and then the Buffalo guys as well. And they both mentioned Shaq Thompson as someone who is a path forward for the way defenses should be played. If there were 11 Shaq Thompson's on the field, defenses would not be in the predicament they are league-wide, where five teams are averaging over 30 points a game, which is more than any season in history, right? The problem is there's just not a lot of Shaq Thompson's in this world. And if there are, they're playing offense or they're playing a different sport or whatever, like Shaq Thompson is a unicorn in that regard.

I'm so happy to see him breaking out. It's interesting to me, when I talked to Ron Rivera, he was talking about how essentially Shaq Thompson gives you the matchup you want with almost everybody, whether that's a receiver, whether that's a back or whether that's a tight end, whether that's in a run game or where that's a mobile quarterback. And Bill Belichich, excuse me, Rivera talked about how much he's been influenced by Bill Belichick specifically the defense Belichick built last year he was talking about

just as far as their ability to match up with anyone with the athletes they have on the field. And obviously Shaq has been in the program for four years now, but I think that he helps them so much. And Rivera was talking about how Thomas Davis was originally kind of the free linebacker and they

drafted, this is where Rivera said, I'm sure it's true, that they drafted Thomas Davis and Carolina before he got there because of Michael Vic, because they needed someone to track down Michael Vic. And now Shaq Thompson, who obviously replaces a void left by Thomas Davis, who's now in Los Angeles, because of his athleticism,

he gets to fill that sort of role, which is match up with everybody. Shaq Thompson, in a weird way, is both the future of offense and a completely rare unicorn who can't be replicated. If he could be replicated, every defense would want one. There's not a lot of guys like that.

It was so impressive to see how many different ways he affected the game last Sunday. There was that sack. He had another hit, I believe, on the quarterback. There was a play later in the game where they tried to run Duke Johnson on a wheel like 20 yards down the field. And Shaq Thompson just ran with him step for step. Like it wasn't even a thing. I feel like their scheme change has been really helpful for him because, again, it allows them to be a little bit more unpredictable up front.

So there's a lot more guys standing up. There's a lot more guys that could be coming. They just have such this chaotic but controlled chaotic feel to themselves defensively right now that I think they're going to be really good all year and really difficult to deal with. Do you think there's a two-and-two team that would win the Super Bowl? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think Philly is definitely in that group. I agree. If they get right, I feel like the biggest thing for them is they're going to have a win this week against the Jets.

I would almost guarantee it to you. And then Deshaun Jackson's probably going to come back. I feel like that's been the biggest thing with our defense is that not even the throws that guys have dropped or things like that. It's just the way the shape of their offense has to change when Deshaun's not in there. And what I really liked about how they played against the Packers last week, we've talked about this all the time. It's about how many answers you have to different questions. And they were able to just lean on their running game and lean on their offensive line and just say, we're going to beat these guys up because we have a varied smart running plan with a ton of talent up front. Brandon Brooks is playing awesome back from that Achilles.

Jason Kelsey is still the best center in the NFL. I mean, they just have so much ability. And if they can get healthy in the right spots and they're not obviously like having everybody back, Malie Jackson's not back. Their secondary is a disaster. but I just feel like they have enough, even with those concerns, to still push the teams in the NFC, because right now,

who's the best team in the NFC? It's probably between them and Dallas in my mind. I feel much better about the Eagles than I do about the Rams. I would say that there's a group there once New Orleans gets healthy. I think that they're right back up there. I want to see more from San Francisco, but I'm not ruling them out from being a really good NFC team. Can I throw out a,

two and two team that it's bordering on take shop to say that they might really improve, but I really want to talk about them for a second. Sure. Let's get aboard the New York Giants? No, the Tennessee Titans. The Tennessee Titans. This would be a Danny Dimes thing. Oh my God.

No, no. That would be incredible. Awesome. That would be awesome. I would have really appreciated that from you. No, I actually should have done that. I regret my convictions here that the Titans might be good. So, Mario, the only starter in the league who hasn't turned the ball over, who's played,

who started every game. incredible against the Blitz last week. I know it was the Falcon installed app, but I think he had a, this season he has a six touchdown zero interception ratio when he's being Blitz this season, 128 pass a rating. I understand that, you know,

that's not necessarily sticky, but it still is good. You'd rather be good against the Blitz than not good against the Blitz. I saw an incredible stat from a kind of Malin Bell last week that I wrote down that Mario has 22 games in his career in which he has zero touch.

touchdowns, which is the most since he entered the football by any quarterback. So he basically just has games where he's just like, this is not, this is not for me. I'm just not going to throw a touchdown. That's my problem with them is that I have no idea how good they are. I have zero idea. And I don't, I don't, I've never seen a good explanation for it. I mean, I think maybe some of it obviously is health, getting banged up. Maybe it's the low line in certain situations.

I don't know an explanation for why there are these eggs that happen with Tennessee where some weeks they look awesome and sometimes they just look incredibly mediocre. They are a confounding franchise. But I kind of want to fire up the old Marcus Mara out of bandwagon here. I don't know. I think they look good against Atlanta. I honestly have not gone back and rewatched a lot of the games they've had

because there's been other stuff to do. And my eyes glaze over whenever I talk or think about them. And I know it's a blind spot. I mean, they obviously pasted the Browns. They lost by two points to the Colts. They lost a weird game. They lost that Thursday night game to the Jaguars. And listen, that Thursday Night Jaguars Titans game.

I mean, you got to throw the records out when those two teams get together. But that's the thing. It's just they have these moments where they look so good and these moments where they look so bad. And it's just, I think that sometimes it looks weird when they're not playing on Thursday night. I think that's the problem. When you see them on Sunday, it's like, how did you get here? One more two and two team I want to discuss that we're not going to get to later in the show, not the New York Giants. What do we think about the Chargers?

They've had such a nondescript, nondescript kind of in the weeds start. to this season. I usually pay more attention to them than I have, but I just feel like, I don't know. I'm not sure they're going anywhere fast. Their offense has been so good. And Keenan Allen has been so good, but their defenses looks like kind of a disaster.

And Derwin's not going to be back for a while. They're banged up in certain areas there. I just don't know how much better that gets, even with Rivers and Allen and everyone on that offense playing so well. Yeah, I have almost no thoughts in the Chargers. Yeah, they're a hard team getting excited about right now. Health issues.

I just, yeah, two and two is right for them in every respect. And I'm not ruling out them getting much better. We've talked a lot about how good their roster is, but I'm going to wait and see on that. I'd rather just inexplicably hype the Titans than do a charger discussion. That's totally fine. All right.

Let's get to take shop. I want to talk about a player on another two and two team that I've just been blown away by so far this year. I think that Shaq Barrett, based on his salary and the production he's had so far this season, has had the best first month of any free agent I've ever seen. So let's talk about the best free agents in history. But this is a different conversation. Drew Brie's being one of them.

Okay. We could do that. So you had a argument against that. Go ahead. Shack Barrett for his first month has been better than Drew Breeze was in his first month as the Saints quarterback. In four games,

he had two games re-through for 170 yards, 191 yards, two games with 350 and a couple scores. Excellent. But Shaq Barrett has legitimately been the best player on the field for four straight games for the bucks. Drew Breeze is the greatest free agent signing of all time.

That's not up for debate. This is the first month. I think that Drew Breeze is a better free agent signing. No, no, I agree. I'm just, I'm just throwing out more. I mean, first of all, I think what about Peyton Manning? That's right. He was, he was, yeah, I can't, I listen. Trader Freighton Signing. Dion Sanders. I think Drew Brie's, I think Drew Brie's, is a better free agent signing than Peyton Manning. Well, here, here, in this regard, in that Drew Breeze has been there for 13, 14 years. That's exactly right. He's going to be there for

more years. It's, it's a franchise altering thing, especially when you consider what that franchise is going through when he, in the early days there. No, in, in, in No more. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Totally. I mean, like, there's a, he, he was a franchise changing figure.

He was a transformative figure. Peyton Manning was not that. He came, won some Super Bowls, won a Super Bowl, sets of some records. It was great. No one regrets the Peyton Manning signing. He's probably in the top three of best free agent signings ever. I'm just, I am with you. The Drew Brees was, was a better signing than Peyton Manning.

The Peyton Manning start in Denver. He didn't have like this super hot start. with the Broncos. They were two and two. He averaged less than seven yards per attempt in two of those games in 2012. In 2013, obviously, comes out gangbusters. It's ridiculous the whole year. But Shaq Barrett, I went back and watched all of his sacks this morning because sometimes

sack numbers can be a little bit misleading. You know, they're cheap. They come late in downs, all this stuff. There is nothing cheap about how good he's been so far this year. He has more sacks than 10 teams. In that game against the Rams last week, he legitimately created three turnovers. He had a hit that led to an interception.

He forced a fumble that the Nama Kinsu returned for a touchdown. And he had his own pick. The week before against the Giants, he caused two fumbles that were recovered. And he had a third one that was an inch away from being a fumble that they overturned. It's hard to affect a game more than this guy has over the first month of the season. He pretty much won that game for the Bucks against Carolina by destroying Daryl Williams for the entire game. I mean, he's the fastest player to his sack total in the history of football, and they are not cheap sacks. The guy has been absolutely incredible.

How is this list going to look for 2020 when Elon Manning joins the Bears? I mean, he's going to get there much quicker. I mean, it's not even going to be close. We're going to forget Shaq Barrett ever existed. Take Shop. I've been thinking about this one for a while. I had a Jay Gruden idea and then an Andy Dalton idea. And now I just decided to make them the same idea.

Let's reunite Jay Gruden and Andy Dalton. Let's do it. Let's recapture the magic of 2015. By the way, it was 2013. 2013. I know that because inexplicably, Jay Gruden has been the coach of the Redskins for six years. Yes. What?

You forget that sometimes. Yeah. When I was going back, so I'm writing about Andy Dalton for tomorrow for On The Ringer.com. So I've been doing a lot of deep Andy Dalton dives over the last 24 hours. And I also forgot which years, which offensive coordinators were there. And it's shocking to me that it was six years ago that Jay Gruden was the offensive coordinator for the Bengals. It's nuts.

It is honestly a football miracle that Jay Gruden made it six years. Like I cannot, I feel like he's been there two years. Andy Dalton got two of his offensive coordinators head coaching jobs in a span of three seasons. It's amazing. And I also think that it's also equally amazing that Jay Gruden took over from Mike Shanahan. The Mike Shanahan era in Washington feels like it was 50 years ago.

Also the most, I mean, some people have written about this. Greg Bishop did a good story about it. That was the best staff ever. This summer, the fact that Matt Lefleur, Sean McVeigh and Kyle Shanahan were on the same staff with Mike Shanahan in 2012. with the Redskins. I don't think in 2025 people were going to write the same story

but this current Washington staff. You don't think so? No. Greg Minoski. Let's get it back. So the last time they were together, they were sixth in the NFL and points, 2013. There's obviously some magic there.

But most importantly, Jay Gruden, 33 touchdowns. Jay Gruden is well on his way to getting fired. And Andy Dalton, maybe there needs to be a change there. I don't actually know what's going on with the Bengals right now. Are they going to tank?

Are they tanking? Are they taking? Are they going to tank? Are they accidentally tanking? I think they're accidentally tanking. They're going to get a second. So let's, if you're a crappy team, let's just reunite these guys, offensive coordinator or quarterback's coach. Is Jay Gruden becoming such a bad coach, head coach that he has to do that I'm going

to be a position coach thing for a year? You know, that happens sometimes. I don't think so. I think Jay Gruden absolutely should get an offensive coordinator job. But he shouldn't go to Oakland because then he doesn't go to Oakland because He can't, because his brother is obviously the shot collar there. Yeah. Where are we putting, where are we putting Jay Gurdon and then we're putting Andy Dalton with him?

It's hard to predict who's going to get fired this offseason, but I don't know. I'm looking through the teams right now and I'm trying to think about who it might be. So obviously you wouldn't want him back in Cincinnati because Zach Taylor, that's just not a fit. So when Zach Taylor calls plays and comes from McVaytree. Well, let's just, I don't care. XFL, I don't give a shit. Let's just reunite them. It's difficult because all the teams that are bad or that I think could fire their coaches.

They're not, the problem is that they're not an Andy Dalton away. Those teams are not an Andy Dalton away. Andy Dalton needs to go play for the Bears or something. We've talked about this. That'd be fine with me, but Matt Nagy is going to be the play caller for the Bears next season. I'm aware of that. Well, you never know. So that's, I feel pretty good about that being.

That was a joke. That was just a dig. I was a dig at you. I know. All right. Let's bring it back. Jay Groot and Andy Dalton, 2020. Let's ride. We'll find a way to make it happen.

Somehow we can find a way to make it happen. And now it's time for the State Farm safe bed of the week, the offense you can count on. When you need a game plan for protection, state farm agents are fewer to help. With personalized service, agents are available to talk in person, over text, or through the State Farm app. So go with the one with coverage and agents you can count on.

Find an agent in your neighborhood today. Maze, I think we want to focus on the Texans Falcons game this weekend. Yeah, I think the Falcons defense could use some protection after what they've looked like over the course of this season so far. Marcus Marietta just throwing bombs and touchdowns left and right. Kurt Cousins actually looked good against his Falcons team. And that's why I think the safe bet of the week and a team and an offense you can count on is the Houston Texans offense. Because while they've struggled in spurts this year, I think that DeAndre Hopkins, Will Fuller, Deshaun Watson, these are all guys that can get going against a Falcons defense that just, can't seem to stop anybody right now.

Yeah, if they're going to get going, it's going to be this weekend. The Falcons are 30th and points per drive allowed, 28th and plays per drive allowed. I mean, this is a defense that just makes offenses better. So if there's any improvement from the Texans offense, if Deshaun Watson is going to look like an MVP, it's going to happen this weekend. I also think that DeAndre Hopkins has been much quieter than DeAndre Hopkins' talent with dictate. And if he's going to have a monster breakout game,

I feel like this is going to be the one. We saw what AJ Brown did to the Falcons last week. I think AJ Brown is going to be pretty good. I don't think he's DeAndre Hawkins. So I feel like this is definitely the game where the Texans get off the Schneider a little bit. Okay, that's our State Farm safe bet of the week. State Farm, talk to an agent today. All right, Kevin, let's get to the three biggest games of the week.

I actually want to stick with a team we've already talked a little bit about, and that's the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, going to New Orleans to play the Saints. One of the biggest surprises for me this entire season, and there haven't been that many. I think that some teams have kind of come back a little bit, like Carolina and Philly and the Browns are going to. I think that most of these teams are kind of what we thought they were before the season started. One of the units, though, that's really surprised me over the first four games is the Buccaneers defense. Because for the last two years, they were by far the worst defense in the NFL.

I mean, 32nd in DVOA, bottom of the barrel, terrible, and just did not seem to know what they were doing. And I thought that bringing in Todd Bowles and having an actual adult in charge there could meet a big jump for them. But I didn't think they'd do this. I didn't think they'd go from 32nd to top 10. And some of that is easy to kind of understand. Vida Valleha has been awesome for them

in the middle of that defense. Domok and Sue, they're the best run defense in the NFL right now. They had the bodies to do that. I actually said I thought they were going to be really good on run defense in the power rankings I did before the season. I did not expect them to go from 30 seconds.

to 15th and look strikingly competent in the past game this fast under Todd Bowles. But they have. Yeah. So I'm with you. I think that it's almost like Bowles is higher there. It's almost like some of the stuff we've seen on offense in the past couple of years, which is. Yeah.

It's a good comparison. Sometimes you just see the value of a good coach and go, oh, wait, this guy's really good at coaching. And maybe he wasn't a great head coach with the Jets. By the way, it seems like he might be better head coach than Adam Gase, but let's leave that aside for a second. I'm not saying he was a good head coach. I'm just saying he might have been better than Adam Gase.

Now, when I think about the Bucks, first of all, they are one of the five teams that average over 30 points a game. I can't praise the Bucks defense too much last week because remember, they did give up 500 yards, Jared Gough, even though they created those turnovers and they ultimately won the game. I think they are a really, really intriguing team.

I think that I had a lot of skepticism. I think you did too, but how quickly this could all come together. I know you went down there, spent some time there. you were a little higher on it than me. But I think this is a team that could legitimately compete for double-digit wins. And I'm blown away. I'm thinking that this early. Yeah, I thought the offense would be really good.

I thought the offense would be really good right away because they were so good last year. With Ariens coming in, it just seemed like they could be really good quickly. I mean, their personnel is there. They have Godwin. They have Mike Evans. They have O.J. Howard. Their offensive line isn't good, but it's not a disaster. We've already seen what they can be.

And I feel like the combination between Ariens and Byron Left, which was just as good at whatever they had as whatever they had over the last couple seasons. And it was a slow start. Obviously, they looked terrible against San Francisco, whose defense is better than we thought. But they've been really good over the last few weeks. And we had this conversation about James Winston on Sunday's show. Going back and watching that game against the Rams, I feel like I'm even more entrenched into my position. You want to give them 30? You want to give them the golf contract? they look when he's he's going to make one throw a game that just makes you scratch your head and say what just happened and it's just baffling but when he's on time he's actually a really good anticipatory thrower he's good at putting the ball in windows and really getting rid of the ball quickly that he's actually the best play action passer in the NFL right now in a yards per attempt basis when they create big throwing windows he rips it in there and godwin has just been incredible so there are

offense is finally starting to hit that stride, I thought they would. And again, the defense is so much better than I figured they would be coming into the season. So I agree with you. I mean, there is no reason to me if Breeze misses the next month of the season, like people think he might. And let's say the Bucks beat the Saints this week, which I know the Saints defense looked good, but Tampa Bay is a good team right now. And I feel like the Saints offense is struggling. I mean, they just are not moving the ball well through the air. And the Bucs have the best run defense in the NFL right now. I 100% think Tampa Bay could win this game this weekend.

I'm with you. I saw a quote, good quote from Sean Payton, said that Shaq Barrett's start, which obviously you lauded earlier in the show, nine sacks and four games is like hitting 500 in baseball, which it is. He's like one of these guys that like, it's always like the guy in like May 3rd

who's hitting like 490 in baseball and everybody's like, those guys are going to win the MVP. Yeah, it's, it's, I really do think that there's, there's some real ingredients here. Maybe the bucks are a year away, whatever, but I've been really impressed with Bruce Ariens through four games. Pleasantly surprised. Nerd factor, the, uh, Shaq Barrett going against Tehran Armstead and Ryan Ramchak is just awesome. That is must-see television for me.

Barrett's, what he's done really well this season has just had excellent plans as a pass rusher, spin moves, you know, inside, just really knowing exactly what he wants to do on every play. And those two guys are as good as anybody at shutting that stuff down. So that's going to be really fun to watch this weekend. All right, next. All right. Let's get to Packers, Cowboys. Just classic stuff.

Just classic. Bill said on this podcast on Monday or on Sunday night that it's just a great uniform matchup, which I totally agree with. Great uniform matchup, great television matchup. This game should be played once a month. So I feel like with the way these teams played last week and with the Packers really struggling with the run defense, with the Cowboys not throwing the ball very well, and kind of leaning more on the run than they did, less play action, everything else, I'll be curious what the game plan looks like from Dallas. Because after what we've seen with the Packers for the first four games of the season, their past defense looks really good. They've been able to get after quarterbacks. Their run defense has been absolutely horrible. So does Dallas just say we're going to run it down your three?

throat or do they come out and try to hit some shots with that play action game in the same way they did early in the season? Because the Cowboys went away from play action throws against New Orleans. It was a huge downgrade in their percentage. But they were also getting to more third downs. It's hard to throw on play action throws on third down. So do they try to just say no third downs in general and just have those big play action shots early in series? So I'll be curious to see what the distribution is like for them after they struggled last week against the Saints. Yeah, Tyrant Smith being out is really interesting to me. It's huge. I don't know. I'm intrigued to see sort of where they go with that. I think that- Al Collins is banked up too, so you could have two guys. Yeah, and listen, that Packers Pass rush can get after you.

So that's a little bit of something to watch there. I agree with you. We talked about on Sunday night about how Kellyn Moore has kind of gotten away from the things that they were doing so, so well in weeks one and two. So I think that there's just, there's a little bit of room for proof with the play calling. I'm just excited about this game. I don't actually, I have, I have no idea how this one is going to play out. Because we've seen both of these teams just play really, really brilliant, brilliantly this year.

And I would, I guess I'd go with Dallas because they're the home team coming off a loss. But I don't know. It's going to be really close. It's been an awesome game. It is the quintessential late Fox game. And I'm so happy. I'm so happy it's a late Fox game. It really is.

I also feel like just crank up the NFL and Fox theme. The Cowboys getting Michael Gallup back is huge for them too. He was so good for those first couple games. Then he got hurt. I think having him with Cooper gives them a threat they desperately missed when they were playing the Saints. I have a hard time getting a hold or getting a sense

of what the other side of the ball is going to look like, how Green Bay's offense is going to look like against this Cowboys defense. Devante Adams has hurt obviously. It seems like he was such a huge part of their game plan against Philadelphia. Cowboys defense has been pretty strong. solid hasn't been quite to the level they were last

season, but still a lot of talent over there. And I still think the Packers are finding their footing over there. So we'll see what happens with that. I think that's harder for me to envision than whatever's going to happen on the other side of the ball. 49ers Browns, baby. I wanted to talk about this one because we just haven't talked about the 49ers that much. Hey, do you remember when the Niners almost traded Jim Harbaugh of the Browns?

I do remember that. That was weird. It was like a one-day story. When was that? Is that during the combine that that was a rumor? Owners meaning, I thought. It was when I was around a lot of other NFL reporters. Because it was one of those things where the news just kind of traveled through the sea of people very slowly.

I don't remember when it was. I just remember saying, that's weird. Think about all the iterations of Jim Harbaugh, the Browns, and the 49ers we've had in the time since. I would have liked to see Jim Harbaugh in Cleveland. I think that'd be very interesting to me. Should Jim Harbaugh come back? It was February 21st, 2014. Should Jim Harbaugh come back to the NFL?

He's clearly one of these guys who burns through places pretty quickly. And maybe the book on him in Saraniscoe was that, you know, there was kind of a five-year cap where he would kind of run his course. Well, now he's in Michigan. Maybe he should just come back to the NFL for another five years. Would an NFL team have Jim Harbaugh right now based on the way it went in Michigan? So, bro, have you seen the Jets lately? That's a good point.

Jesus, they'll take Pat Fitzgerald, who's just busy yelling about cell phones once a week. The 49ers definitely don't need a head coach right now because they're playing extremely well. Yeah. And I, the offense looks about how I figured the offense would look in the sense that it's a lot of play action shots. I think Groppalo is averaging 40% of his dropbacks for play action, which Shannon Hans really testing the limits here. and they have a couple shot plays of game that are schemed in. They've done a great job of taking advantage of undisciplined defenses. Their running game, I feel like, is much different than what we've seen from them in the past.

They're trying to get the ball on the perimeter pretty consistently. I mean, right now they're seventh in rushing DVOA, and they were terrible running the ball last year. And their offensive line isn't full of these road grading guys. So it seems like Kyle Shanahan has really started to understand that one of the ways to combat, these defenses that are designed to shut down these outside zone schemes like teams have done against the Rams is to get the ball on the perimeter as fast as possible. So you've seen a lot of pitches, a lot of those kind of runs, and they've been working. You mix that in with the shots that they have consistently because of all that play action and there's a recipe for them that's working

on offense. That I thought could happen. The way they've played on defense is much more surprising to me. Yes, I'm with you. I'm intrigued on the brown side to see what version shows up because that win against Baltimore was a really, really good win. That was a complete win. Obviously, Oda Beckham gets shut out, but, you know, Beckham almost had a touchdown pass. That was almost awesome. I'm expecting a little bit more from him, obviously, this week. I just think the Browns have been inconsistent through a month. It's exactly what I predicted coming into the season, that they would start slow. I'm just wondering if this is the week where they don't sort of start the climb up building

on last week and don't stop until like December. I was most impressed. I know the offense played well against the Ravens, but the Browns defense played really well against Baltimore. And they were without Grady Williams, no Denzo Ward. Hopefully both of those guys are back this week. You have Miles Garrett going against a backup left tackle because Joe Staley is out. That's not going to go well. No. So the Browns may absolutely keep rolling here. Offensively, I really liked the way they kind of simplified things, tried to get the ball out of Baker's hands quicker, a lot more too tight end stuff and play action off of that, which they did a ton of last season and kind of gone away from early in the season. So I think that they've kind of

not figured things out, but I do think they addressed some of the problems they've been having. And that's really all you want to see from our first year head coach. If you're not playing the way you want to, find a way to get back to the team you were when it was working. And I think that they did that last week. And I'm encouraged to see them do it again. Pick? I think the Browns win, honestly. I kind of do too. I like the San Francisco. team, but I think that the Browns have found their footing a little bit. Good Monday night game. It's good Monday night game.

I'm excited to watch it. Good slate this week. What's the Sunday night game this week? It's not that good, right? Isn't it Colts? It's Colts Chiefs. Well, I mean, listen, you can't predict the retirement of Andrew Love. No, of course not.

I mean, the Sunday night's slate, for the most part, all season is full of awesome game. A little Chris Bauer Bowl here. Yeah, and Justin Houston Revenge Game, possibly? You know, there's another big revenge game coming up. We'll talk about it after this break. When it's game day, you can't be fumbling your wallet to pay for the food order or worrying about online security when paying for tickets to the next game. Privacy.com is the best way to pay for anything online

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And it is all about Mr. Khalil Mack. Yeah, baby. Because this game, this game involves two of my favorite things in the world. And it's Khalil Mack and revenge. I'm a big revenge movie guy. You know, I think everyone loves the John Wick movies, but that genre of movie is very important to me. And it seems like what Khalil Mack is going to do on Sunday

could be its own action movie. reading the quotes of his during this week have been so fun. I think a reporter asked him in the locker room on like Tuesday. And he said, is there a little vindictiveness? And Cleomack responded, ooh, vindictiveness. I like that. He does not do that stuff. No, he does not.

He's for the most part, very reserved. And I think it's been back and forth and some of it might be a little bit blown out of proportion. But the fact that he said, he said, you don't want to get too emotional in this game. And that's usually his approach. But he said on the other side, you kind of want to make him pay for it. it. And I'm looking forward to this. And I'm looking forward to it in part because of that, but also because he's just been so fun to watch this year. Jack Barrett has been the best defensive player in the league through four games, but Mac has been right on his heels. And

you've just seen all the ways that he can affect the game. The Strip Sachs is one thing. He's had nine of them in 18 games as a bear starter in the regular season. That's nuts. I mean, that is just unbelievable in terms of impacting games consistently. It feels like he has won a game at this point. He changes the complexion of a game by his ability to take the ball away. Turnovers are random, and they always will be, but it does feel like he's really locked in to a way of knowing exactly when to get his hands up, exactly when to go for the ball, and it's working. The one he had last week, it was so interesting because typically he's such a powerful

player. And Riley Reef probably in his mind is replaying that long arm that just knocked him over on Sunday night last season. So instead of going with that, Max steps towards him and that is this little ghost move where he goes underneath him. And instantly, wall off balance just explodes to the quarterback and knocks the ball away. And that's what makes him so fun to watch and such a fun study when you really appreciate line play because it's not just this athletic ability that makes him great. He has such varied plans and he can do it so many different ways. It's not just strength.

It's not just speed. There's a savvy combined with it that makes him almost impossible to handle one-on-one. And I feel like it's going to happen again this week. I don't, I don't, it doesn't seem to me like Trent Brown or Colton Miller is going to be ready to take him in no matter how well Trent Brown has played over the last couple of years. Yeah, I was surprised to see his comments on the revenge thing. I've obviously did quite a long profile of him a couple years ago. He is, uh, not the type of guy to normally do that.

So I'm excited to see this version of Colomac. I'm so excited. I remember his dad actually told me that he, his dad, had a, he had to step up on a guy at a car wash who once said that Jadavian clown, it was a better pick than Kalil Mack. Like that's, that's his dad and like kind of defending his son, Kalil, is just not like that at all. So, yeah, so that's, that's, uh, to see that side of Kalil means we're going to see some, some fireworks on Sunday. I'm really excited to see. I certainly hope so. I'm also excited to see, um, John Gruden's post-game.

comments. Just like, just like does he do like the well, still don't have a pass rush kind of thing. I'll be very upset if Cleo Mac just gets blanked during this game, which I know that's going to happen now. It's just inevitable. Let's ride.

All right. What's your sneaky truth? Dolphins might not get the first overall pick, dude. Wow. The failed tank. All right. So is Washington the number one candidate to supplant them? So here,

here's one of the problems. is that the dolphins and the Redskins play each other. That's the next... The dolphins have the buy, and then they play each other next Sunday. I can't believe that's the 1pm game. I can't believe it hasn't been flexed yet. They play...

I do believe they'll beat the Steelers. They play the Bengals on December 22nd. This is no cakewalk to Owen 16. Do you think Washington's going to beat the Steelers? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The Steelers... I'm looking at kind of disaster zone games that they play. So here's the schedule.

Redskins, bills, Redskins, they could, the Dolphins could beat. And they play the Steelers. That's probably a Steelers win. Then they play the Jets. Okay? They play the Jets twice. They still have two games. Two games ran against the Jets.

And then they have the December 22nd game against the Bengals, which might be for the first-over-roll pick. Now, listen. Josh Rosen is not on board with the tank. Okay? Listen, I'm going to land no magic thing. Okay. You identify pretty quickly who's on the first.

board with a tank and who's not. Okay. There was a video. I actually wish I saved it on my phone of Bismack Biombo. Have you ever seen this video? I don't think so. So Bisnac Beyondbo caught a pass right under the basket and then he had a clear layup and he just kept pivoting until he was somehow five feet away from the basket. Like a video game glitch. And then just did like a fade away jumper when he could have just done a layup to begin with and then he just missed the shot. It was awesome. Bismac Bionbo was on board with the tank. When you get into the dolphins and you get

into unguaranteed contrast, I think part of this is that Bismac Bionbo was making a lot of money, making $15 million a year and he didn't care. I think part of this is, you know, Josh Rosen's playing for his career. If he doesn't play well, he's going to be out of the league after next year. He'll get like, you know,

if they go 0-N-16 and he's the quarterback, he'll get one more backup job next year and then who's going to take a chance on Josh Rosen after his rookie contract is up in two years. So from my perspective, they've got probably some motivated people. They still have some talent there. I don't know.

I don't know. There are some winnable games in that schedule and that should worry you. So if the Giants had stuck with Eli all season, you probably could have rationalized the Redskins beating the Giants in one of those games. Now they're already 0 and won

and the Giants look much, much better with Daniel Jones. So there is a real chance that Daniel Jones ruins this for Washington, or for that Daniel Jones ruins this for the dolphins. The Daniel Jones is the reason that the dolphins tank will not work. That would be so sad. It'd be really depressing for the dolphins. And they're fans.

They're fans. Like, that's, that's sad. That's sad. I have to sit through this. I cannot believe that would happen. To sit through this and get like the third pick because they accidentally beat the Bengals. Yeah, it would be so great. My computer ran out of battery, so I'm no more.

so I'm just going full hot takes from here on out. We're fine. I'm just going to make stuff up from now on. We don't have much else to do. Let's get to the Thursday night pick. Ram Seahawks, this is a good one, man. I love this game. This is great.

It's in Seattle. Is that correct? Yes. I heard they're wearing their neon greens. Is that right? I can't check because my computer is broken. They are wearing their neon greens. I have seen that that is true.

Let's not do that from now on. Like, can we? The neon greens? Yeah. I have no interest. the neon greens ever again. We got to stop this. Can we,

do Seahawks fans, I don't know the answer to this. The Seahawks fans like their current uniform scheme because it's, you know, it's kind of clean. It's, it's,

they won the Super Bowl in it. I understand it, but their general scheme. Are Seahawks fans ain't on a reboot of those jerseys? If we went full 80s, would they support that? They,

we should. Those were awesome. Those were awesome. The Seahawks jerseys are fine, I guess. I don't know. Fan bases are weird about the jersey. Yeah.

I certainly have takes on my own team's jersey. that maybe don't dovetail with the mainstream. So I don't know if Seahawks fans like the Jersey scheme. I'm just suggesting that maybe we shake it up a little bit. But the answer, by the way, is not the Neon Greens. It's never the Young Greens. It's never the answer to anything. All right, who wins this game?

Hmm. Hmm. Seattle. I think they do too. I think that Seattle's front is good enough to take advantage of a Rams offensive line that has been struggling mightily so far this year. And I just think that Russell Wilson is playing so well. Some of the throws he's consistently hitting this season are so impressive.

And we just saw how much the Rams struggled with Tampa Bay's passing game. It's not the same, obviously. But if Chris Godman can have that sort of day, why can't Taylor Lockett have a pretty big day as well? Right now, I think that Mahomes is playing the best of any quarterback in the NFL. But to me, Russell Wilson and guys like Wentz are right there with him. And watching Russell Wilson is a joy when he's playing well. And he's locked in right now. All right, bud, that's all we got.

As always, guys, thank you so much for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. We'll be back on Sunday night. Until then, enjoy the games. Thanks, guys.