The Ringer NFL Show - Giants HC Joe Judge on Coaching Under Belichick and Saban, Daniel Jones’s Potential, and Year 2 in New York | Flying Coach With Sean McVay and Peter Schrager

Episode Date: July 14, 2021

Sean and Peter are joined by the head coach of the New York Giants to talk about his rare experience under both Nick Saban in Alabama and Bill Belichick in New England, including his favorite player to coach on the Patriots, and Nick Saban’s unique interviewing process. Later, they get into what Year 3 could look like for Daniel Jones, what he has learned after his first year as a head coach, and how he is preparing for Year 2 (2:04). Finally, we answer some listener emails and voicemails (59:43). Follow 'Flying Coach' here on Spotify! Email Sean McVay and Peter Schrager your questions at [e-mail]. Or leave us a voicemail at (818)-253-1572‬ and it may be featured in our next episode! Hosts: Sean McVay and Peter Schrager Guest: Joe Judge Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's good, everybody? I'm John G. Stremski, host to New York, New York with JJ, the first podcast on the ringer in Spotify, dedicated to you, the New York sports fan. We've got episode three nights a week, plus bonus episodes whenever news breaks. So make sure you follow the show on Spotify. Welcome back to Flying Coach, the podcast where coaches talk freely, as we've learned, and we are having a blast with it. My name is Peter Schrager. I'm one of the co-hosts on Good Morning Football on the NFL Network, and I am joined by my co-host. the wonderful, the verbose when net is necessary, and the concise when necessary. And one of my great friends, Mr. Sean McVeigh, the head coach of the Los Angeles Rams, what's up, big guy? Wonderful, I will take that one, Peter. You know, you just always know how to make me feel good, buddy. Yeah. Look, the Kyle Shanahan episode was Gangbusters.

We got such a great conversation with Kyle. The Troy Aitman once before that did incredible traffic online and got such feedback. I'm really excited about this episode. I think it's a different type of episode where it's a coach that, candidly, I don't know, what was your relationship with our guest from this episode going into this one today? You know, it didn't know him at all. Other than over the last year, the natural conversations that inevitably come up,

you know, amongst head coaches. And, you know, we've had great interaction over this last year. But, you know, I knew of him. We had never had any prior interactions. But I think people get a good feel for, you know, the ownership that he has and all all three phases, the type of head coach, a commitment to a philosophy, being around some great guys like Coach Belichick and Coach Sabin, but also putting his own stamp on what the Giants brand of football will look like under his guidance and leadership.

And a lot of really good things to take away for sure, Peter. I think he's awesome. It's Joe Judge, the head coach or the New York Giants. It's Flying Coach, Episode 9. Enjoy. All right, Sean, our guest this week is none other than the head coach of the New York Giants. It's maybe I'm in the New York area.

It might be the topic of the summer. Everyone's excited about this team, and I couldn't be more excited for his second year as a head coach in the NFL. Let's welcome in the man from Big Blue, Mr. Joe Judge. Joe, welcome to flying coach. Hey, man, appreciate it, guys. Glad to be here. Appreciate you having you all.

No, it's great to have you, coach. I know during this time, this is probably one of the few times that we get a chance to unplug. You know, I've always, I've said over the last couple episodes and really, you know, just whenever I've talked, you know, I'm still struggling to find that balance, that true ability to truly unplug. You let yourself go and can you get away and detach or you have a tough time with that like I know I do too? So the biggest thing we've kind of found out, my wife's kind of one broke the code, is she's got to get me out of town. As long as I'm in town, I'm in the office, I'm staying connected, I'm doing something. She can pull me out of town and I'll

still kind of just set aside, sorry, look, I'll wake up every morning. I'll work from call it 630 to noon, you know, and then all of a sudden we'll go beach time. We'll go, you know, full family time down there. But, you know, look, unless they kind of get you out in the water on a boat or something where I don't have a connection to something, I kind of find a way of every day saying, no, I'm not doing much today. And then all of a sudden it's like, all right, you got to close that off and cut it out. But, you know how it is. You've got a thousand things going through your head. It's something you wake up in the middle of the night. You got three ideas. And it's like, all right, before I forget these, I want to make sure I get this down.

So we'll get back in training camp, we can hit these right away. You know, that's all fun. positive. But to me, it's, again, the biggest thing is vacation for my family kind of starts when we leave town. You know, it's when we kind of walk and pull away and unplug and just be a family. Yeah, I'm the same way. I've gotten better about it. I also know that if I have my cell phone with me, there's no chance I can truly unplug. I was pretty good about, we just got back my fiance and I from vacation. And the best ability for me to unplug was, was leaving the phone away. But, you know, I really, you know, we've gotten a chance to have some interaction more so over the last year. I've always talked about on this podcast. I'm a fan of coaches, and I probably am about the

thousandth person to ask you this, but I do know for both of us as younger coaches, being exposed to some great ones. You know, talk to me just real quickly about, you know, I've always talked about, you know, the mentorship from the Gruden family, from the Shanahan family. How fortunate. You know, you're a guy that, you know, too arguably of the best of all time, you know, and Coach Sabin and Coach Belichick. What was that experience like? as a young coach and how do you feel like that sets you up for the success that I really admired just watching the way you led your team in your first year with all the obstacles that we had to face as head coach. Talk to me a little bit about that. Yeah, the first of it was unbelievable.

You know, and I really valued every day I had with Coach Saving or Coach Belichick. I mean, every day I knew I was walking in and that something was going to happen that day that I had to learn from and carry it forward if I wanted to do this, you know, as head coach. So every day I want to learn a lesson. And, you know, that never failed me. I think the biggest things with those guys that I really took away, and I've said this before, but I worked for two guys who were, again, arguably two of the greatest to ever do this, and they really just reaffirmed everything I learned at a younger age. You can trace it back to the guys I played for in peewee, my high school coach, my early coach in college,

and just everything tied back to the basis. You know, I went through with those guys for, you know, really the better part over a decade. And I tell people all the time, they ask, you know, Sean's a little different with you because you're calling the plays in the game and you're so involved with the offensive side. I'm a little bit different more in terms of just, I'm really working to manage the game. And, you know, obviously the coordinators need to decide the ball. They call the plays.

And early on, someone asked me, how are you going to go through a game and not be the one to call them the plays? And all I can think backwards, well, the last two guys I worked for, Belcheck and saving, you know, I worked 11 years combined for the two of them, and they never called a single play.

And they were very instrumental in kind of how the game was played. And I really took a lot of notice into, you know, when they would chime over to your head set or ask you a question on the sideline or maybe have some input. It was never more like, hey, Joe, call this play. It was always, what do you think in here? And then it was always followed by both of them with why. And, you know, it's something I try to take as head coach is like, I'm going to let the guy's coach. I just want to know why. Like, what's the purpose? Before we go into the game, what are we thinking situation? What are we thinking in certain plays? You know, why do you want to use that course of attack?

And if that doesn't work, what are we going to do as a counter to be successful? I mean, I can remember, be on a headset here and saving coach tackling the entire game for having Velichick go over and talk to the offense line by pad level and all things you kind of just take up and notice and it's that's really the most important thing it's not like they're not

getting coached in the position coach and coordinators on the technique and scheme it's just get the fundamentals down you know I remember when I took the job when I was saving and me and him sat down and the interview stories okay they're holding on the stories themselves and you know kind of different

you kind of wonder what kind of psychological warfare you're going through in the interview to see I'm going to screw with it. But I remember when Coach Saving often did a job, the one thing he talked about was developing coaches. It was actually the first time in my life, I heard someone talk about that. He was saying, hey, listen, if you come here, really the money wasn't much anything,

but the opportunity is to come here and learn, work on the staff, and the better you do, the more responsibility it will give you. And he kept talking about developing coaches, developing coaches. And that was something that really interested me of. I'll go there and I'll work, but I know I'll come out and food.

And then when I worked in New England, you know, coach didn't talk about it as much. You know, he didn't go out of his way all the time and explain everything he was doing. But you could see, Bill was always putting us in positions to do new things and grow. And when you did something again, if you were successful, they gave you more on your plate. You just get working and working and working. But the development with the two of them was always something they're putting in successful. I mean, I can remember being there with my first spring, Sean. I've been in pro ball for like three weeks of this.

I joined right before OTAs. you know, I'm cramming every morning from like five to seven o'clock, going through the playbook just thinking, whatever we got going in today, I can't screw this up. I've got to have every detail, every answer, any player asked me question. They got to know I'm not going to get the wrong answer. And, you know, we're in the second week of OTAs and all of a sudden we're in a meeting and coaches like, all right, let's just go ahead and split the special teams up today and kind of almost have a scrimmage. Now, we're talking OTAs. We're talking there's no contact. You know, and you have to have a punt team and a punt return team.

There's really all war. Pumpers, punt return when the offense defense are going. And you kind of look back after the fact and you're like, I had nothing to do with the players. He was trying to see like this new guy that I can pull the players. Can I organize the team? You know, was I going to sink or swim. And, you know, he was looking for the impression I was going to make early on in spring. Okay, here's this new guy.

Can he handle the responsibility we're looking to set him up for it down the line? So that was something you kind of start taking notice with coach the whole time. if he'd give you something and you just go ahead and run with it and develop you know one of the things he did for me early on was when I first became the special teams coordinator he put me over all the player development as well yeah the rookie players and leadership developing all and stuff and the first thought that goes across your head is you know I've got a thousand things on my plate the last thing I need to do is you know design a rookie program and go through this and you know new player orientation throughout the season and then you realize

that you really learn how to get more of a beat on the culture of a team and develop the team and you're spending more time doing everything but the X's and O's at the same time you're balancing that with doing the X and O's of being a coordinator on the side of the ball and that really helped just my development in terms of just being able to walk into different rooms and see the big pictures you go in that there is the football aspect but along with that it's all the program development that comes with it and I had the opportunity to do that for five seasons you know under him and that was just huge for my development I mean it was tremendous They would go through every part that came in the building.

I got to kind of be the first face they got to deal with. And, you know, look, you get rookies and they kind of sit in the seat and they're wide-eyed and a little bit scared by some of things you're telling me. You got vets are looking at you like you're half crazy. I think, what's this guy talking about? What's this guy talking about, you know, social media and, you know, how to handle certain things off the field? You know, you kind of go through the whole thing and you learn that, you know, managing different

personalities, young guys coming in, old vets coming from other teams, different position groups. and that really helped me along with coaching the special teams of learning like you walk in a room this time of year it's 90 guys eventually it's going to get down to 53 plus practice squad so you learn to walk in a room and it's like how do I touch everybody every day when I need to get something done how do we get that message across in as many ways possible but I'd really hear it the same way so here's a question for you you kind of touched on it a little bit Joe you know you're going through the interview process with nick Saban and you had to be you know if you were with he and

Bill for 11 years. I mean, you had to be, what, 31 years old when you were probably interviewing with Coach Say? I mean, this was, what, almost 10 years ago now, right? One thing I was 26, 27, yeah, 27 years old. So take me through what that interview looks like. How you got the interview? I want to know. I mean, that's, where does that come from?

Give me the best parts about that where you're thinking, oh, shit, here we go, man. I'm going with Nick Sabin. I'm going to win that job. Probably the same way you knock the Giants interview out. I got to hear it. Take me through that process. So the whole thing with that interview was, you know, a lot like these other jobs is I've actually never gotten a job I've applied for it. And I've applied for a thousand.

I've seen a phone call. I've bang on every door I can bang on it. And the funny thing it always comes back to is I've never gotten a job where I've initiated the contact. You know, but somehow, you know, when somebody knows who you are and you've done a good job and impressed it, impress them, that's open the door here there. So I'm coaching at Birmingham Southern. I GA for three years. I get done playing Mississippi Stadium. Time out.

Time out. Birmingham Southern? Go on. I don't know what that is. I'm not being disrespectful. I just don't know that program. That Division I, what is that?

It's a Division III. It's a small and large school in Birmingham, Alabama. It's a tremendous school. It was actually, I was there. It was the second year they ever had football. Eddie Garfinkel was the defensive coordinator. Eddie took over. I was in between GA and having to find a real job.

So I was kind of kicked out of the nest to the three years to GA. it's you know me my wife and our son and she's teaching in west point high school mississippi i'm trying to do anything i can to find a job uh i actually took a job very briefly at west point you know school district and you know it was short lived but i was coaching football and uh i was actually working the kindergarten PE class and uh you know one day my phone rang i had met eddie actually in passing i had flown out at birmingham to interview somewhere else for a job that i didn't get and the strength coach over there was a friend of my We actually been at Mississippi State prior to that,

I named Justin Schwinn. And I met Eddie while I was basically eating lunch, waiting for a flight when we got out of. My phone rang. I'm on a couch exhausted, and Eddie said, hey, you want this job? And I said, yes, I do. So I take the job.

Look, it was a great experience. It was really great experience. I had a year to run my room. And to be honest, you on that level, you wear a lot of hats. What was the job, Joe? What was it, the coordinator? What were you?

So I was the linebacker's coach, team's coordinator. I was the video coordinator, work with academics. You know, we did everything on equipment, line the fields, you know,

washed uniforms after games. Division three. Division three. You do everything. What a perspective. You know what I think, too, Peter, like to Joe's point,

and that's where sometimes I'm embarrassed about how lucky I was because of really the platform and kind of the path that my grandfather set out, making such a good impression on people in this league. But what I think sometimes

we get spoiled as as, as pro coaches. Some of the best coaches I've been around are my high school coaches, some of these college coaches because, you know, Joe always touches on being fundamentally, you know, sound and not beating yourself. And I think that's part of the influence, whether it's saving Belichick, him building his own philosophy. But, you know, you talk about having to really teach guys from square one. All right, hey, let's just get into the right stance. How are we taking a snap from underneath the center? All right, what type of, you know, depth are we aligned? And where are we stacking as a second level lineback? Or all the intricacies? Where do we want to

to start off off bump technique how do we want to play bump technique how do we want to play off man like all those things there's so many of these fundamental things that you take for granted as a coach and I would argue that some of these guys at the foundational levels are the ones that are forced to really understand and own everything that's all encompassing to build in the foundation the right way not to mention line in the field doing the video thing I mean hey the more you can do right coach judge I'll tell you part of that stuff that you really learned too by having to do everything it's amazing how many times you come across people at different levels. And all of a sudden you may have to go ask the video guy to do something.

They kind of look at you like, well, this can't be done. You can say, no, no, no. All you got to do is, you know, make this kind of copy, link this, put this wire here. And they stare at you and it's like, yeah, I've done that job. You know, when you start talking to something with the field, you say, like, listen, it's not that complicated. Just go get that chalk paint. We'll brush it off when we're done. Be going with it.

We're keeping everybody accountable with the New York football Giants, baby. Nothing's getting by these guys. So you kind of learn all that stuff a long way, but that was a great experience. And to be honest with you, I got for a year, I got to screw up everything. Yeah. And learn from it. And, you know, I was in such a small stage at the time. And they're a much better team now than we were then.

And the program's really doing a good thing in Vision 3. But I screwed up everything. And no one noticed. And it was probably the best thing for me. You know, that I went in there and, you know, got done GA, I thought I had every answer. And you go in there and it's like, man, the amount of stuff I screwed. up and I learned from my players of dealing with them throughout the course of a year in all aspects, you know, in the time management you had to learn by doing all those different tasks,

you know, it really helped me. And then randomly one day, I'm sitting there and the phone rings. And, you know, Alabama was looking for a young special team's guy to come and work with the special teams. And there was a guy who's there named Sal Cesar. He's actually back there now. And Sal was kind of put in charge of helping find this young guy. And he called a guy named Amish Jones, who's on our staff now, a G8 and play for him. Smith's State and Amos called me up and he said, hey, Alabama is looking for a young special teams guy. They're going to call you in the next 10 minutes to answer your phone. Talk to Sal. I was on the phone with Bobby Williams, who was doing the coordinator spot at that

point in Alabama. You know, hey, they set up an interview. I went on down there. And then the next day I interviewed with, you know, a large portion of staff saving for a while. And that was off for the job the next morning. But the interview itself, you know, you go in there and you're with half the coaches on the staff. And I remember they were going through the special teams cutups. And it was in, this is in March. So they just come out of recruiting.

They're getting ready to like self-scout for the previous year. They're doing the fourth quarter program at the time. And I'm sitting there with all the coaches. And he just, we're watching their punt return. I remember him. He just said, okay,

tell me what you look for in punt return when you're breaking down someone's apartment. I just kind of started going through. Well, it all starts with a long snapper. First thing I'm doing to see, you know, snap tempo,

keys, can you protect. You know, then I'm checking different spots and look at the operation of the process. So I was going through a whole checklist to what we look at. And he's listening. We're kind of going through it. And we talk for a while. And then finally, you know, he kind of looks at all the coaches. He goes, all right, once you guys go to the fourth quarter program, yeah, I got to talk to this guy.

And I'm like, damn, this guy, I thought we were better now. He's like, all right. So, you know, we get on the board and I sit there. And, you know, it's me and him, you know, like every special team's interview, what phase you talk about Sean, pun. No doubt. All the head coach cares about this. Each be punk. And he's right. You walk in there and he goes, all right, teach me pump protection. And I get on the grease board. And now, look, I'm dressed.

I'm wearing whatever my best slacks for the day what I have a sport coat on. I just bought a new tie. I'm a buttoned up. And, you know, I start drawing. He just goes, I'll be right back. And he walks out. And, you know, we're in the staff room down there. Sean, you've been a staff from in Alabama?

I haven't. I haven't been in that staff room. It's a decent size, Rick County over the room. He's got a door to his office on the far end. And I'm standing there. And I'm sitting there holding this expo. And I'm thinking, all right, when's he coming back in? Five minutes goes by, he's not bad.

Ten minutes goes by, he's not back. And finally, I'm sitting there. I'm like, oh, here's a deal. I'm not sitting down. There's no way this guy's walking back. I'm not ready to go. So I'm just standing next to me. I love that.

So like 25 minutes goes by. My palms are sweaty. I'm sitting out with the guy's gone. And he walks back in. Now, he walks in with some guy, all right, who I've never seen before and haven't seen since. So I don't know who the guy is. he walks in and it's like the Muppet hecklers.

Yeah. And this guy and Savin just sit there and basically are making fun of how I'm dressed. Oh, my. I'm sitting there all the time, but I'm just looking, I'm going like, you know, I've been, I've cut up enough in, you know, schoolyards. Like, I know what you're doing. You want to see if I'm going to blink as you bust my balls. Like, I am doing that.

Stadler and Waldorf. Here we go. Yeah. So I'm like, all right. So I'm just smiling on through it. That don't bother me. And then at the end of it, we just had to talk ball. Talking ball to me, I mean,

I never get nervous talking ball. It's just doing something to love. It's, you know, it's like telling someone your phone number, right? I mean, you can know it. So, you know, I get on the board. We draw on through it. We go through it. He's, I guess, I don't screw it up that badly.

So we sit back down and we go through it. And Nick, I love the death. But, you know, he sits there and he's like, you know, all right. So we get through. He kicks the other guy out and he goes, so what do you want to do? Yeah. And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, what do you want to do?

And I'm like, well, I'd like to sit in your chair. you know, I know the head, like, but what do you want to do? You know, I'm like, well, I want to the best damn special teams coach that you've ever having your staff. And he's like, okay, well, how do you plan on doing that? I'm like, my shut my mouth and learning and figuring it out and, you know, coach now you want to coach. And he's like, okay. And then we went up to the fourth quarter program and I watched those guys run around and, you know, move around and was very impressed with just how it was a giant machine. Everyone knew where to go, how to operate. It was very, you know, it was a

thousand things going on, but it's efficient. Everyone's moving. Everyone's getting coached. Everyone's working. And there's no time to slow down and talk through things. They'll talk later in the meetings. Everyone's going. And we're walking out and talking to the strength coach, Scott Cochner's in Georgia now. Scott was kind of, you know,

just checking me out a little bit for the head man and you're sure you want to do this is where you want to be. And I'm looking around thinking, I've got to learn this. Like, this is how I want to do things. I don't know. I want to learn how to do the system of all these multiples operating. so efficient. This is what I have to learn to do. And the next morning, I was driving on my children

to daycare actually on the way to work. It was a Friday morning. And they're screaming in the back and the phone rings and it always comes up as, you know, you know, blocked call or private call, whatever it is. Yeah. So I think it's got to be someone important. So I answer and it's him and my kids are screaming so loud in the background. I pull over the side of the road and I get out and I'm standing on, you know, you know, the side of the highway, actually, and I'm sitting there and he's off on the job and we're talking on through it. But he kept talking over. we don't know about developing coaches, developing coaches. So that was it.

You know, and working for him was a great education. One thing he was great on was he explained all the why the entire time he got. Yeah. Every staff meeting and he sat and you'd go through a number of different things, but ultimately you knew what you were doing, but why you were doing. And he was very clear on like, it has to be done this way because this is the purpose. And, you know, that's something I kind of carry over to talk about and talk to the players. It's going to be hard, but if you explain them why, everyone's easy to go through with it.

And they understand. They understand. It's a purpose. You're not just doing that because I said so. All right. So you're a Division III coach. You get hired by Sabin. You have this amazing success with him.

How does the Belichick leap happen? How do you get from Alabama to then go to the NFL's crown franchise or crown jewel franchise of this generation? So there's a guy named Scott O'Brien, who was coached. special teams at time and scottio was very close who's saving and anytime we really had questions on special teams i'd handle something you know he'd always say want you to give scotia call and kind of see what it is so we had a rapport and at least you know we're able to talk all with each and you know they were looking for a coach looking for an assistant and they called down and said hey with that joe judge guy would he be interested in special teams coach we hired so this was 2011 no so

going into the 11th season. So it's spring. And that was a year to lockout. Yeah, I'm really excited. I go up there, let's go interview for it. And I kind of got squashed because it was a lockout and no one was hiring anybody. It wasn't going to happen. We went through the season on 11 and I win the national title.

And in December that year, I got a phone call from Ellis Johnson. And Ellis, I played for Ellis and GA for him at Mississippi State. And very good relationship. He's a great friend of mine. And he called Mips and said, hey, I'm going to interview for this job at Southernness. Would you just be coming down as being the coordinator? And I'm like, you know what?

It's about that time. You know, and I don't really want to leave Tuscaloosa. However, this is a great opportunity, working for a great friend, it's a great place. Yeah, let's go ahead and take this. I take the job. And down there, we get through recruiting. Actually, we win the national title on, I want to say, January 11th. And on January 12th, I'm in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.

I drive right from New Orleans. Great to Hattiesburg. Start working. we go through recruiting, we do the whole thing. They play the Super Bowl, Giants beat the Patriots. The next morning, I'm in my office. Excuse me, it's like, no, 7.30 in the morning.

The morning after the Super Bowl. Morning after the Super Bowl. My phone rings. Scott O'Brien. Hey, would you be interested in this job of him? And I was like, you know what? The answer is yes, I would. However, I just took this job with Ellis.

He gave me an opportunity. I really don't want to leave him. So he said, okay, well, let me see what's going on. calls me back like two days later. He says, hey, listen, we're probably not going to hire someone this year. We'll hire someone after the season. So why don't you just hang court and, you know, work and we'll know where to find you. Great.

We go through Springball and it's now, it's actually the week of the draft or the week before the draft. Phone rings. It's Ellis Johnson. And he says, hey, have you talked to Belichick? And I said, well, they called me back and, you know, at the Super Bowl about this job. I told them thanks to no thanks that I was here and I was working. He goes, well, I told them you'll be up to interview on Monday. And I was like, interview on Monday.

And I said, yeah, he goes, look, if I think it's a great opportunity. He goes, I'm not trying to push you out of here. He goes, you need to go meet some people. And he goes, I might only do this career for another seven or eight more years. He said, you've got to go meet some other people. He said, go up there, interview if you like it, great. You want to take it. Take it.

If not, you should met someone. Unless Johnson, what a dude. No question. And that's honestly, I've taken that approach with everybody on my staff when something comes their way. And I always think it's not fair for me to limit their opportunities when someone did the opposite for me. I went up there, I interviewed. I actually spent about 12 and 13 hours in a room just me and Scott O'Brien one day. We got there, you know, with Scotty, it's kind of like things start early.

So it's like I'll pick up at the hotel at 5 a.m. You know, at 5.30, me and him, we're drinking coffee. and we're on the board and we talked all day. And then I went in and met with Bill. And that was kind of another deal. It was kind of very similar to the next story, but the complete option on the spectrum, you know,

I go in there and I'm talking to him. And as I'm talking to Bill in the middle of conversation, he stands up and takes a shirt off. And I was looking at him like, what's this guy doing? I'm thinking, is this more of those head games right there? Is he just trying to and we're full engaged in the interview,

talking about personnel reviews, and scouting, all stuff and stuff. He'd take his shirt off and he was like, all right, yeah, and they walked behind, like, the corner. And he comes out, he's got different pants on as we're talking on. I'm like, what is going on here? And at the time, I'm thinking, this guy's just playing head game, same thing, trying to see if I'm going to blink.

I'm kind of like, look, I've already lived through that, buddy. I'm all right on this. But if you know Bill, it's like, no, he's just a thousand things going on. He had to go to some dinner that night. He's like, I got to get ready while I'm talking to this guy. I already know I'm all for the job. You know, I've got to get some things done. So we end up talking.

on through it. He kind of just left it as, hey, listen, we get the draft this week. I'll give you a call, you know, on Wednesday. He actually called me back on Sunday after the draft. Yeah. Long story short, it was a deal where, you know, he offered a job and we went up there. And it couldn't have been more appreciative for the opportunity. And I couldn't have been more appreciate Ellis Johnson for, you know, having that perspective of saying, look, go take the interview. If you don't like it, don't take it. But this is a good opportunity for you. I was always very, you know, appreciate it. of that and I try to go ahead and pay that forward when I came. It's funny, Peter, listening to Joe talk about it. This is eerily similar to the opportunity that I got in Washington because you hear Joe talk about his foundational philosophy, special teams-wise, when he's, you know, he probably already had a core beliefs. And then when you go to Alabama, there's a similar foundational philosophy that they

operate with that is a little bit different than the standard, you know, operating procedures or some of the things that you see reflected around the league. and that was probably really instrumental in the continuity that you had with Scottio being able to talk to him, Joe, and then being able to, with Bill, with the continuity they've had, where you're speaking the same language, very similar to both me and Kyle Shanahan working under John Gruden, and then we're talking the same, you know, kind of language, and it was a really seamless transition. How much do you think that played into just how seamless that was in the confidence

that, hey, if Nick signs off on this guy, I know they're doing the things the right way. I can see the tape shows up and then let's see if he can articulate and echo what I'm seeing on the film. I mean, that had to be pretty seamless for you transition-wise just in terms of the schematic approach in and of itself. One thing I really take from that, which I know happened behind the scenes because I know that, you know, saved and said, you know, or at least when he was called, said, this is a guy that can do it for you, and give him an opportunity without ever telling me that I knew he did that. And one thing I've taken with hiring my own staff, to be honest, is I think it's the same kind of principle. I want people that speak my language and that's, you know, any actual verbiage,

but then also in terms of how we see it philosophical. Look, our culture and our building is not the same as everywhere else. That's fine. We do do things differently. I understand it's not the easiest way. It's not meant to be an easy program. But if you love ball, if you see it the way we see it in terms of, you know, put the hours in and truly grind through it and race and enjoy the work part of it, then you'll do fine. So getting those guys in that fit that mold really helps me. when you were there in New England, I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, it's Matt Patricia, it's Josh McDaniels, it's Brian Flores, Brian Dayball, you list the guys. How do you stand out? How do you, because, I mean, I know what Bill does.

It's, look, as great as Gerard Mayo or Steve Belichick might be, Bill's not wax and poetic about them publicly by any means. So how do you guys stand out internally and make a name for yourself in front of Belichick that ultimately sets you up for that next level? I think you just do everything he gives you to a high level. And I never saw this competing against Josh or Matt or Flo or, you know, Dante Scarnack and there was great coaches that were in there. To me, it was just do whatever he asks you at the highest level. You know, that building very much like Tuscaloosa. I think the thing you were trying to do is not standout. You don't want to be the weak link.

You know, you're going to be someone who could just, when he said to get something done, he never had to look your way again. No one had to worry is your unit going to be coached the right way? You didn't want the rest of the coaching staff thinking like, oh, no, what's Joe doing? you know, I never want to be the weak link. So I think you're kind of motivated, you know, by your greatest fear and our fear is failure. So, you know, none of us wanted to fail. We helped each other. We pushed each other.

But at the end of the day, you didn't want to be the one who stood out, you know. Winning is always fun, but, you know, from the outside and it sounds so naive of me. Is it a fun place to coach? I mean, I know he's tough and it's disciplined and the Patriot way. Is it a fun experience being up there? Because I feel like you've got Clint. in Arizona is a little Lucy Goose. You got some other places where it seems

New England doesn't seem like it's all jollies. All right, so I'll tell a real quick story. And I know a lot of stuff, you know, doesn't always get out. You know, we went through the whole thing coming out of like 2017. There's a lot of noise in the offseason about, you know, there's a fun here.

It's tough. It's this, it's that. And you followed it up by ruin in my life by beating me in the Super Bowl. Thanks a lot. Go ahead, coach. Sorry to interrupt you. No, one of my all-time favorite

people in the world and all-time favorite players all that will be around is his element and jules made you a better coach because every day he challenged every day like when you'd walk into coaching it was it was like you were walking into a fight every day and you knew he was going to check you somehow and made you a better coach you know he was runancy competitive but he wanted you to know that he was an expert in his field and he wanted to make sure you work too but when we came out of that whole deal in 17 with kind of like you know the outside it's not fun it's it's it's at. I remember Julian, he had a four-game suspension, if you remember, in 18.

I remember he walked in from the suspension. We had this white grease for it. And, you know, his monitors all over the building, so you don't have to write anything, but there was a white grease ford on the wall and it was blank. And everyone knew who wrote it. He walked in, he wrote, in the middle of the board, winning is fun. And it was something I think everyone read as they walked in every day, knowing who it came from, the guy who outworks everybody,

the guy who does everything he can to compete and win. and, you know, how much this guy loved the game. And he just kind of spread the message the entire team of kind of like, hey, guys, you want to have fun? Like, winning's fun. We do everything we can to win here. But I'm be honest with me. I had more fun in those eight years than I've ever had with the game ever. It doesn't mean it's not tough.

It doesn't mean it's not demanding. But the team culture in those locker rooms, the enjoyment you genuinely had seen somewhere else succeed, the smiles, the hugs. But, you know, you would think, like, what's, what's the fun of coaching? The fun for me is being able to help somebody else go out and execute something that they can have success. And, you know, those players do everything their coach to do. They understand, like, that's their job. You know, coaches, coach, and players play. And they're fun. And they're good dudes. And the culture is good. And I know on the outside, it's, hey, it's doom or doom, right? That's not the reality inside. It's not. And those guys were tons of fun to coach. Now, look, it's going to be

very, very demanding. And it's going to be tough. And you're going to be held accountable. Okay. I can remember sitting and stay in squad meetings and having my job threatened from the entire team. But you know what the cool thing about those guys were? When your back was against the ropes, they all responded to me. They all came to town. And look, we played the chiefs in 2018. We didn't cover kicks that effectively. Okay. That's me. That's my view. I look. I look. team down. We didn't do the job because I didn't prepare the well-off. That's reality. If my guys don't play well enough, I don't coach one-law.

And I can remember going in after that game, and he was just told very, very clearly. If we don't do this better, there's going to be changes. And I can remember going through that week. And, you know, you have a lot of guys in that locker we know each other's backs, players, coaches, everyone have them band together, and we actually ended up going

to Chicago on the road the next week. And they play the heck of a game. We scored two touchdowns in the kick of the hand. I remember. I remember. Remember. Yeah, CP had it. We blocked a punt for a touchdown. We did some other things. They were a real good team.

They were a tough team. And it took the entire team all three phases. But it was one of those deals were after the game, those core guys, the entire team rallied around those guys. You can see them in the locker and the joys and the excitement with those guys. So again, is it demanding? It's absolutely demanding. Is it stressful?

Yeah, it's supposed to be stressful. If we get paid very, very well to do something at the highest level. So it should be done at the highest level. I mean, look, we went to Cirque to Soleil and all falling off the trapeze. Like, that's not going to be much fun for the fans of life, right? That wouldn't be Cirque Day Saleh, would it? Yeah. So it's, you know, it's supposed to have an expectation and they're supposed to be demanding.

But, you know, to go back to the original part of it, did I have fun in New England? Absolutely. And you know what? I'm having fun every day with our guys in New York. I really am. And they love ball. They come to work. They're fun to be around.

You know, I had as much fun as you can imagine last year. as ridiculous of sounds and showing you on the other side of it. And we started off, we were 0 and 5 and then 1 in 7. And we were outside in torrential downpours and practices in cold rain. You know, it was miserable. And while everything on the outside might have seemed like, oh, this is going to be terrible for this team, when are they going to split or fracture and break apart? Those guys came to work every day.

They did everything we asked them. They smiled. They responded. They competed. They supported each other. They took coaching. And they could see the improvement. as a season like. Yeah. I think it showed too, Peter, one of the things that, you know,

just watching from afar, and I've referenced this a lot on this, this podcast, and Joe, I don't know if you've heard or not, but, you know, there's a commitment to a philosophy, but when you talk about watching the way guys handle the ebbs and flows of a season, the thing to me that says as much about your leadership that I was so impressed with from afar is you talk about starting off slow. And then I remember watching this Monday night game against, you know, the Super Bowl champs and you guys take them wire to wire and you can really see there's a lot of good stuff going on and I don't care what the record says. I see, you know, I'm watching the tape. I'm watching the way guys are competing. I'm watching the way guys are communicating together.

They're doing sound things in all three phases. You finish watching that game and you say, I don't care what the record says. The Giants are coming. They're going to compete. They're going to be situationally aware. They're going to know exactly how to play fundamentally sound. And these guys are relentless in the way that they compete. And I've heard you talk about it. Then you reel all four straight wins. You get yourself in the division race just because of the ebbs and flows of the way that it went. And then you have a tough stretch. But to finish the way you did winning that last game against the Cowboys, I just thought I saw a team get better. And I've always watched from afar. I think the teams that are the best coach are the ones that show improvement. And that might not always be

reflected in what the record actually shows. But hey, what do you see in snapping and snap out that's reflective of when I put the tape on, that's our resume. And I thought, you know, kudos to you for that. And, you know, I just have an appreciation for the commitment to a philosophy that I remember hearing you talk about in your opening press conference. You see the consistency throughout the year, especially navigating through the things that we had to with just COVID as a first year, head coach. And I was really impressed by that. So kudos to you on that, man. I appreciate it. You know, it's our players last year did a great job, you know, committing through all the stuff last season.

But they did everything we asked them to. And, you know, when they practiced hard this spring we had them, you know, I'm anxious right now to get back in a training camp. You're going with them. I really am really excited about this group. They're fun to coach. Joe, I can't go out in New York City or New York proper New Jersey without someone coming up to me and saying, Giants, Giants look pretty good.

Giants. This is a moment for a Giants fan who has been waiting years for this type of offseason where there's expectations of, hey, we brought. Roden Ghaladay, we got this great draft pick. I like the second round pick out of Georgia. Like, everyone is stopping me to talk about it. I can only imagine what you're getting where you live. And yet, I think it all comes down to the quarterback

without getting too much into the typical. Daniel Jones, like, I think this kid, and Sean, you tell me what you've watched, when healthy is tough, smart, and can throw the ball a mile. Is it okay to be excited about Daniel Jones as he goes into this season? And knowing what you know now, being with him for more than 12 months, Do you feel good about the quarterback heading into 2021? Yeah, I'm always excited about working with Daniel. I really am.

And this guy's, he's had a really good all-season for us. But I thought Daniel grew a lot last year. And there's no excuses for anything. Everyone had the same obstacles. But, you know, I thought Daniel going into a new offense last year without a spring, without really a training camp, without preseason games, there were some things that he had to adjust to within the season. And as a team improved, he was a huge part of it.

One thing about this guy that, you know, I can't say enough is how everyone responds to him. Good. You know, this is a guy that I didn't know before I took the job. I didn't, which is why I was so reserved and making comments about him. It wasn't to be fair to him. And the more I've got to know him, and really you get to know him to watch him work. But this guy is a leader. And this is a guy that when he steps in the heart of the guys respond to, you know,

offensively and defensively, these guys all respond to him. He is tough. You know, there's no hide mat. The team knows when he's got to play through some bad. Andrews and this guy's, he's a tough dude and he works relentancy. And I think you talk about leadership. It's, you know, one, you've got to do your job effectively. No one's going to follow someone who can't do their job effectively.

Number two, you got to put the team first, man. He shows really how he works inside the building and on the field, stuff with the team away from the facility that he's putting a team first and everything he's doing. I'm very pleased with the leadership he's, you know, taken on this year. You know, it's really growing, you know, as a player, as professional. but you know, this guy's a lot of fun to be around. And one of my favorite things to do, honestly, is sit down there with him on, you know,

Monday afternoons or Tuesday afternoons when he was breaking up the next opponent and just asking him, what do you see him? You know, I want to see through that quarterback's lens. What's he seeing? Or does he see as something he thinks he can make a play on? You know, what does he think about the opponent's debuts? You know, what's he thinks about our matchups? It says a lot.

You don't know what this player was thinking. But, you know, he was the first player that came and knocked on my door when I took the job. I saw some guys the day. I was kind of walking up a facility for the first day. Guys were in locking and waiting and stuff. You know, that second day I walked in there, and there is, you know, sitting outside of my office waiting to come and have a conversation

and talk. That's what you want. Yeah. I think what says as much about him as anything is, you know, those who know, know, and there's nobody that's better in tune with it than the players that are in the building, the coaches day in and day out. And when you hear the support from the people that are around him, that's what gives you confidence.

You know, you touched on it a little bit there, Joe. I'd be interested, you know, as a, you know, kind of a, head coach that's overseeing. You're involved in all three phases. You're overseeing it without, you know, give me a little insight into what your weekly rhythm looks like. You know, you talked about being able to spend some time with Daniel as he's getting into the early phases of his prep. Sounds similar to kind of probably what Bill and Tom did. But how did you take, you know, being around Nick, being around Bill and then, you know, putting your own spin on it, but then, you know, having that weekly rhythm that's in alignment with your process and your preparation.

You look, for me, it's important to always work ahead. And that's something, you know, you got to do in the kicking game. You're always at least a week ahead. You know, the way I approach it is, you know, I'm on the next opponent, you know, come Thursday night, Friday morning, at least going through some cutups and some early introductions that when we get to that next week, you know, and we get through, you know, Monday night and Tuesday, all the coach are game playing around, you know, midday Tuesday, I want to really have a mastery on the opponent.

So when I sit down with the coordinators and say, okay, what are your thoughts on playing this game? how do you see this game? You know, not just what play you want to call, but what's the flow? Tempo, you know, personnel groups, players, features, how you want to go and handle this. I want to make sure as they're talking, I've seen what they're seeing. You know, so to me it's a lot of work in the head, you know, starting out with, you know, the kicking game guy. I was trying to knock out their kicking game, you know, Thursday the week before. And then, you know, between Friday and Saturday, watch their offense and defensive cutoffs.

Now, you can't watch everything. Right. you can watch enough to know, like, what do they do well? You know, how are they making their plays? You know, we're watching the Rams offense. You know, where their explosive plays come from. You know, how are they scoring touchdowns? You know, what are they doing that give opponents problems?

Right. Let's get a figure on that. How can we approach that? You know, defensively. Okay, who's making the plays? How are they making them? So at least giving a flow and an idea of going to help the coordinators of like, okay, you're playing Denver.

I mean, you're open Denver. It's no secret. I'm not going to shadow the earthy. But, all right. How are blocking Vaughn mode? you know how we account for that pretty good like how we're going to start off before we talk about the plays like let's talk about the player like how do we account for that we have a plan for that are we just saying let's line up and just go ahead and go like how do you see this here to me the best

thing i can do stay ahead that i'm not playing catch up on what the opponents are doing yeah it makes sense i mean peter if you listen to any of joe's press conferences leading up to the game you know and i felt this way when i when we played against the patriots too and joe you talk about an ownership the opponent, whether it's the history of the game, knowing what's going on in all three phases, you know, that's reflected when you, you know, whether it was us getting ready for one another or when I'm just watching because I'm a fan of coaching. And, you know, I think you can feel, the players have to feel the command and the capacity. You can certainly feel it if you know what you're really looking for and you can see and you can feel. I've always told Peter,

I respect the guys that put the work in and you can feel that they're putting the work in based on the tangible amount of information, you know, that they're able to just seamlessly communicate similar to what you talked about coach where, hey, never really got nervous talking about ball. This is what we do. You're putting in the time. You got a confidence based on that time spending the people that you've been around. You know, the one thing that I'd be interested to ask as well for you is now going into year two, okay, because it was, you know, this was my first opportunity in L.A.

I had never been a head coach. You know, this was your first head coaching job. You know, you always prepare and be yourself, you know, taking all those types of things. if you said what's the one thing that until you really get in this seat now I'm going to use what I learned in year one and I'm going to apply that that I just wouldn't have known otherwise is there anything that stands out to you? Yeah, I think you talk to your situations all the time. You talk to the time management part of it. That to me is the biggest contribution I can make in a game because I'm not going to call the offense, defense or the specialist of these plays. So to me, control the flow of the game and situations make sure imagine the right way.

That to me was the biggest in-game curve. you know, I know sometimes, you know, quarters get stuck sometimes in just the specifics of what they're calling. You know, I'm trying to always bring them back to the bigger picture. You know, what's the tempo of the game? What's the tone? How's the other side of the ball playing?

You know, is the defense struggling a offense? They have to go ahead to adjust how we're playing the game to help the defense. Make sure we communicate that part of it. They're not always seeing the other side of the ball. But to me, when you get in the moment and the way the molecules fly up, it's kind of a, you've done a flight simulator,

but now you get to get it. Yeah. So that to me was something that, you know, I know I improved on as a year to win. You know, you get more and more situations come up as a season goes on and you can handle them better. You know, to me it's all about keeping the players and rid of them and sync to go ahead and hit those things full speed. But, you know, that's something we have to do is a good situation on football team.

That starts with being made sure on the same page. What's, what's, give me one example of when he said, all right, man, I did a hell of a job here and then one when you say, what was I thinking in that moment? and I got to be better for our guys. You know what? I got aggressive. I never really apologize for being, you know, too aggressive.

There was a fourth down against the San Francisco 49ers and being, you know, early in game three. You watched it great in your game. You probably, how's this guy doing? And we weren't playing with it. And I kind of came out of halftime. We kind of told the team, like, we're going out there swinging.

We're not going out there and, you know, trying to just go ahead and lay on the ropes and get through this thing. And, you know, it was a fourth down. And I made a decision to go forward. backed up foreign-owned territory. We got stopped and then you get it. And I look back at that in hindsight,

okay, like sometimes the emotion gets you a little bit there. And I got to go ahead and stay clear-headed and make sure I put a team in the right situation to go forward with it. And that wasn't the right decision at the time. Now, I got no problem going from a fort down. I got no problem, you know, going for doing the situation,

aggressive stuff. But, you know, making sure you make the right decision at the right time for the team. Yeah, it couldn't have been nearly as bad as my quick count in the tight red area where we left a defensive tackle free for an unabated sack to golf. So you had me beat on that one. But now that's it is, it's interesting though, Peter, because I can tell you, you know,

when you just watch and you're seeing guys from on the opposing sideline, the command and hey, giving Jason a heads up, hey, this is a four down situation. There's so many intricacies going on. And in a lot of instances to what Joe's talking about when you are involved in the play calling element, yeah, as a head coach, you're ultimately irresponsible. but the way that I'm allocating my resources on game day is you've got somebody up top that's kind of helping you with the clock management as far as the timeouts and more confirming. Now, in a lot of instances, you know, offensively, specific to those situations that occur at the

end of the half and the end of the game, you know, you got to prepare both sides of the football and you got to have your special teams ready for the different scenarios that can come up. But a lot of those situations are, you know, inevitably kind of dictated by the offense. and then you're being ready defensively or you've got to anticipate possible decisions. And so it does have a flow, but it's amazing the amount of things that, you know, you got to oversee. And, you know, it's, I'm excited about, you know, moving forward because, like I said, I just got a lot of respect for the consistent commitment to a philosophy and approach. And you can see the stuff he talks about shows up on their film.

And that's a big compliment as you can give to another coach. That's cool. Joe, I got some quick hitters before we wrap with you because I want to hit a couple things that are just fun. Tom Brady. You were with him for, what, 11 years? Just give me a good Brady story. Eight years? Yeah, eight years. I got a million time stories. I'll tell you what now. Like, I can remember my first spring being there. And the guy had visited some other teams in the league. I'm not going to go out and talk about teams or players. But, you know, you watch these guys that are starting NFL quarterbacks to throw the ball. They're doing seven on seven, a team where it is and the balls on the ground or balls will come out clean or whatever it may be.

I remember the first time watching Tom throw the ball in spring. OTA1 were doing, you know, seven on seven. Every ball he threw was perfect. And I remember when he was done the period, I remember sitting there and I'm like, you know, like, all right, this guy, like I obviously understand, you know, why he's a great player. He goes over on the field by himself and he's sitting there

and he's working all this hit movement and foot movement and he's over like just breaking down one in-cutting through. that was like, you know, top of the guy's helmet instead of being, you know, right there, you know, on his chin. And he's going over and over and over through it. And it's, I'm sitting there and I'm just listening to him talking to Josh and going through it. And I remember watching him throw about another 12 to 15 in cuts while he was waiting for the next period to get done. Yeah. And I remember sitting there watching him going like, okay, that's the difference.

I watched these other guys who just looked like pedestrian. And, you know, for my first time seeing it, I'm thinking. thinking, no, this is perfect. And he's watching, you know, himself going, nope, screwed that one play. I'm going to go ahead and as many as I can until the next period goes to correct that one play. And I thought that it was carried over in the way he played. And, like, I had a tremendous amount of respect to Tom and everything he does on the field. I think the thing that sometimes P, I don't know that's going to go ahead and speak with Tom or talk to Tom too much, but the thing that people don't understand, and I don't care how many books you need about him or you hear him talk

about, you know, the whole process is, when you watch what he actually has to put his body through to get ready for practice and get ready for games and to recover and stay healthy, like the commitment he has to keeping his body able to play, like, it's amazing. It really is. I mean, it's amazing.

Watching him get his body worked on and his legs worked on and how he recovers and it's, it really is. And then in between periods, you know, look, you're in a playoff since January, And it's in between periods and the defense is out there. And he's on the field next to it with the strength coach, with Dan's around his waist, you know, run and pull the strength coach, working on get all the starts and balance and all that stuff.

And it's a whole process he goes through. So, you know, to me, just the level of respect is I can talk over and over and over about, you know, the big wins and the performances and all that stuff. But ultimately, I always think about the results, but they're all the resultable things you don't see and how this guy works on a daily basis and the things he has to do to physically be right. And that's the thing I don't think a lot of these young players are truly a whole thing is how much work it takes just to be available on the field.

Yep. You know, it's different than college. You just don't show up either cheeseburger with your ankles tape and go practice. It's a whole process of taking care of your body. Yeah. I can remember, Joe, when we practiced when I was in Washington and we practiced against each other before the 2014 season. And Peter, this is something that whether it's watching Tom,

but really just the entire operation. You talk about every single minute being accounted for, not wasting anything, the efficiency of the operation. You can really see, whether it's Tom's process, but really the Patriots overall operation in and of itself. It was pretty unique for me as a young coach because that was my first year as a coordinator in Washington when Jay Gruden was the first year as his head as the head coach there.

And I was a coordinator there for three years. And that preceded my first year as an offensive coordinator. And you're just watching the efficiency of the operation. in between periods. The way they transition, you get into the move-the-ball settings, they got the communication set up. You watch the way that Joe's practicing

with the special teams period. You watch the way that guys are saying, all right, if it's not an offensive period or if there's a little bit of a lull, I can promise you what's going on. Tom's doing stuff with the bands or working those throws or they're doing a blitz pickup drill. That was the one thing to me that stood out

where you're saying, you know, when you watch the way that they're preparing, when you get an inside look at it, that's different. And I think that's the consistent. of anybody that's great at what they do, whether it's coaching or playing. There's a consistency. There's a commitment to a process.

And all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes is just a byproduct of what you see these guys having all that success that Joe and Tom have shared in New England. And then you obviously see Tom and doing a great job. And it's impressive. It really is. And I guess on behalf of Giants fans who are going to want to know, what was your reaction, Week 17? And you could just say, I got no.

comment on this. The Eagles are up. If they win this game, who knows what happens, maybe the Giants are going to, and then we see a quarterback substitution and it doesn't go that way. What was your reaction watching at home? That point was out of our hands. We could have handled it, you know, in the first 17 weeks by, you know, winning games. That was it. Okay. Sean, what was your reaction? Same? You know, what you respect about Joe is, you know, he's going to take full accountability. it's not about what we can. And again, you know, there's a lot of things that go on. That's not for the Rams or for the Giants.

We just can handle and control what we can control. Hey, I'll say this. When he's talking about the Buccaneers Monday Night Game, you better believe that was a pass interference call that was blown. I mean, I'm sorry, Joe, I grew up in New Jersey. This is just fair stuff I'm saying here. I could complain. You don't have to.

I could say it if I want to. I appreciate it. That's good. I guess, I mean, as far as anything else, Sean, I just love talking to Joe. I think he's the man. I think Giants fans are in such good hands. And from one coach to another,

do you have any final questions for our guest on this week of Flying Coach? Well, yes, I got one final question. Peters asked this to all of our guests, Joe. If you were saying, you know, hey, one word of advice you say to coaches, you know, they're getting into the business, you know, through your journey that's got you to this level. And what I love, you talk about, hey, this is an opportunity. This isn't the end goal.

Now it's about earning the right to continue to do. this at a high level to lead to make guys want to follow you and continue to build those relationships. What is your advice to coaches if you were to say, all right, if you're going to take away one thing, this is the one piece of advice in my coaching journey that I would want you to take away. I think in the journey, you know, there's so many things that are to come up and you've got to really be grateful for the opportunities that come your way. I said earlier, I've applied for thousands of jobs. I didn't get called back, called back. To me, it's doing a good job wherever you are.

You know, wherever you are, if you do a good job, ultimately it's not who knows who knows you. Someone will take notes. And enjoy the work, enjoy the coaching. Understand the value of what you're doing. If you're getting into this to make money and look, we've been very, very fortunate by the opportunities we've had and you know, make good money.

But look, I spent a lot of years, bro. And my wife supported me through this for a long time, you know, teaching and, you know, taking out loans and whatever we had to do to kind of survive and get by. But you always have to enjoy the work. work because the hours are going to be long. You're doing it right, the hours are going to be long. Don't complain about the hours.

Enjoy the work and wherever you're at. Coach your butt off. Like this most important thing, too, because it should be. You know, I've learned a lot of lessons coaching at Birmingham Southern for guys that, you know, look, they weren't as good as players I'm coaching right now. That's not an insult. That's just a fact.

That's a reality. But you know what? They played hard for me. You know, I would remember going to come in there prepared and help them be a better player. And I still keep in touch to those guys. all the time and I value anything good for me. I'll probably learn more from those guys

than I have a lot of the better players, you know, of how I can reach someone trying to help somebody maximize what they're doing. But if you think you're getting into coaching because it's going to be a quick avenue with something that's glamorous, like, you're looking at the wrong part. You know, most of the stuff we do,

you never see. It's long hours. You know, I walk around bagging in my eyes all time. They'll never, you know, do rid of those things. But just the way it is, you know, you got to enjoy not sleeping, and enjoy breaking out a ton of tape and enjoy, you know, working hours for one little nugget to give a player to help them.

You know, so that would be my thing right there. Just, you know, raise where you're at, coach your butt off and enjoy the work. Joe, did-standing? When you are a kindergarten teacher, teaching PE and you're three years after, did you ever think about quitting? Did you ever think about saying,

I can't live this way? I can't afford to live this way. I need to provide. And I know a lot of coaches that email Sean and I on the show they're like, hey, I've been doing this for six or seven years at the high school level. And it's a passion, but at some point, did you ever have those doubts? I think it's naturally you have to have at some point,

have that conversation with yourself when, you know, I'm married. I have, you know, two, three children, depending on what time in my career, I'm starting out of four. And you're kind of going through, all right, look, I'm calling these people. I can't even get them to pick a phone up. When's my opportunity going to happen? Actually, there was a time I was at Alabama. I had talked to Bobby April, who at the time of the special team's coordinator,

for Philadelphia Eagles, and they had a job open. And I talked to Bobby down in the senior bowl. Someone recommended me, went through the whole thing, talking. I remember it went to somebody else, he was a damn good coach, and I didn't get the job. And you're kind of sitting there going through like, you know, I can't catch a break. I don't understand what's going on. I'm in a great spot. I'm in Alabama.

I'm not on great for him learning great things. But you're sitting there thinking like, okay, at some point, I've got to catch a break. And I remember the phone rang just ran me one day, Bobby Aver. And it was one of those days you're sitting there like, I'm going to go home, you know, probably to have a conversation with my wife and see, you know, where we are with everything. And Thorn Raines is Bobby April. Hey, just want to let you know the job went to somebody else. But you need to stick with this.

You do a great job. And I've always been very, very grateful. And sometimes, you know, it's a you got to take the time as an old coach to turn around and point out to a younger guy when they're doing a good job because it's early in a career. It's very, very thankful us. You're working a lot of long hours and a lot of hard work. and sometimes it takes on pointing out that they notice you're making progress. So I was very, very grateful enough ever told Bobby about that,

but that's something that, you know, really left an imprint with me. I'm very grateful for him taking 30 seconds out of his day, you know, one random one to call me up and just say, hey, think you do a good job. That's really cool. I'll end with this. Having done both, who should get paid more, a kindergarten PE teacher and NFL head coach?

Great question. But kindergarten PE teacher is definitely going to come home more tired at the end of the night. So we're going based on the end of your level on the hours. I go to kindergarten PE. It's good stuff, Joe. You're the man. We really appreciate it, dude. This was so great.

And I hope you enjoyed it too. And I know you're a busy man and you're wired like Sean. You're always thinking football. But for you to take an hour out of your night and chat with us, it means the world to us. So just thank you for being on flying coach. It was really cool for us. guys i really enjoyed i really appreciate it uh peter man i'll talk to you soon and yeah shone good luck this season and uh we'll see each other pretty soon yeah sounds great good luck to

you except for when we play each other yeah yeah i thought joj judge was great that was fantastic it was good you know a lot of stories uh a lot of insight into kind of what makes him tick what he's learned from the guys that that he's been around but you know how that all of his experiences have led to, you know, kind of the coach he is, the types of people that he wants to surround himself with and what he's looking for in players and definitely learned a lot. I think that's always the thing. You know, anytime you want to really be able to be around some special people, you want to listen to learn. And I think both of us got an opportunity to do that today. Yeah, and we're going to bring in our producer, the great Craig Horlebeck.

Craig, what was your take on Joe Judge? A guy who doesn't do a ton of media and certainly isn't as animated as he was for the last, you know, hour that we had him on. He's a real straight shooter. I thought he was awesome. I think he really embodies the Giants, and I think he'll do a great job next year, this year. Yeah, and I think if you're a Giants fan listening, you can't help but feel maybe not, oh, Super Bowl, whatever,

but you're thinking, we're in good hands. It felt like that guy is, it's discipline, it's stability, it's accountability, and I'd be shocked if the Giants are one of these goofy teams with a ton of penalties making mistakes next season. And the way he spoke about Daniel Jones, the old Giants fan in me that grew up wearing a Phil Sims jersey. I can't help but say I'm a little excited to see if the Big Blue is relevant through the season.

Just not week six, Sean. I was going to say, who are you going to root for week six, Peter? Are you pulling for the Rams or are you going back to your old roots? I'm rooting for you as long as you my co-host. We're rooting for the Rams. Rams are going 17 and O and probably going to win the Super Bowl. Never mind. We're just trying to get ready for training camp, Peter.

That'll be the next headline, you know, something like that. Let's just be present. Let's just be still right now, baby. They say what, one game at a time? How about one podcast at a time? We'll stick with that. Craig, we do something called the emails and the voicemails every week. I have gotten a ton of suggestions on Twitter,

especially since the Kyle Shanahan went gangbusters. We've got a million tweets. I think I know what it is. Best one, what is it? What do you got? I think it's air mail. I like it. I had a couple of buddies.

You know, I was just this past. weekend spent some time in Atlanta. I have a couple of my buddies, loyal high school teammates, friends. One of my friends actually suggested that who is a weekly listener to the pod. Bud Crawford said airmail. So I don't mind that. Yeah, my dad texted me being like after the Shannon episode. He's like, what about air mail? And I was like, oh. So air mail is the one, huh? You got a million suggestions. Why don't you throw out your shitty ones? No, they're too shitty. Not as good as airmail. One of them was. like first class mail. I don't know. Whatever. Okay, air mail works. I think, I think overnight

deliveries. No, it doesn't even make sense. All right. Craig, let's get to the emails and the voice. Yeah, my buddy Eric Ziff gave me one. I'm going to go through my text because I thought it was really good. I just got to find it. But in the meantime, Craig, get to the emails and the voicemails. All right. This is from Matt. He asks a question to both of you. He'll start with Sean. He says, Sean, how do you find ways to adjust your looks on offense each year and stay creative in this game? because it amazes me the amount of new concepts guys like you bring into the league. Yeah, well, you know, I've referenced this before, Craig. You know, some of the best coaches are also the best thieves.

There's really a lot of inventory at our disposal. You know, I think at the end of the day, a lot of the same things will show themselves up weekend and week out year in and year out. The, you know, the illustration of what it is right before the snap just might look a little bit different. But as the snap unfolds, usually it ends up being kind of a, similar way to distribute all five eligibles or, you know, block certain front structures in the run game. And so I think there's, there's things that we try to do. You know, you're always trying to put pressure on people with your tempo, your formations, your motions to really apply pressure

to the defense. I want to try to use personnel groupings as well. But I would say, you know, find and sound ways to attack the defense, but also make sure that you're having the illusion of complexity. So we might be running the same play, but the presentation of it looks. different based on how we motion to it, how we create the final formation, what personnel grouping we're doing out of. But it's that illusion of complexity that I think you see a lot of the best offenses do year in and year out. And that's one of the things that we try to stay true to as well. Peter, he's got a question for you. He asks, I love watching you on Good Morning Football, especially when you go on Mac if you show. For a new journalist, what kind of tips would you give

me in regards to perfecting a craft in a media game? I am soon taking on an internship where I will have high school football coverage near my college's campus. Great. That's great. That's the first step doing it. Create content. There's no excuse anymore. And Craig, as someone who's in the media game and is young yourself, I would say if you're not on YouTube, Twitter, doing a blog and just like for me, there were so many barriers of entry and I can make excuses for why it took me so long to get into, you know, where I'm at now. But I was working my ass off. I've mentioned this before that I wrote for the free subway paper in New York, the metro. Like I wrote for them and I made $15 in an article.

And I would do any radio interview I could. I was writing for a million freelance blogs. And then once you're there and you're doing it, the people that you meet, the community that you're building, those are the people that 15 years down the line are going to also be doing things at a higher level. And you start building and growing. You know, Nate Burleson was a player when I was first coming up,

but I made sure that this guy's a big personality. I'm going to make a relationship with him that now we're co-hosts with each other's great. But Kyle Brandt, my other co-host, was the producer on the Jim Rome show picking up phone calls. And I was one of the guests, and we became friendly through that. So it's like my guidance, no matter where you are, there's no excuse anymore if you're not to be producing content. It's not enough to just take classes and to say you want to do it. Go do it on YouTube. Do it on Twitter.

Do it on Instagram. Do it on TikTok. Figure out your own platform. and eventually things will work out for yourself. But that and then I always say this, don't be an asshole, don't be a bad person, because it's such a small world. And it's not like you should ever be an asshole or not. But like, treat everyone that you come across well from people that are starting out

or people that you've grown up idolizing. Because as I've said before, some of the nicest guys to me when I was growing up in this industry were Troy Aikman, Phil Sims, Jim Nance, and Peter King. And like those are four just like absolute titans of our industry. And those guys were nicer to me than some of the guys who, you know, were a little lower on the on the chain. So be good to people. Don't be an asshole and just work your ass off. And if you really love it, like coaching.

And as Joe Judge and Sean will tell you, usually things seem to work out. I love that answer, Peter, because we've talked about it before, you know, repetition is the mother of learning, accumulate and experiences. You know, I loved what Coach Judge talked about some of his previous stops where, hey, you know, you're at some of these schools that might not have the financial to be able to kind of allocate everybody to different departments and you're lying in the field, you're the video coordinator, your coach and ball, you know, the more you can do and being not afraid to shoot your shot, you know, that's the other thing. You know, so often these day and age,

you know, people are afraid to put themselves out there. It's like, don't be afraid to fail. Get that experience, learn from that experience, whether it be good or bad. And really, don't be afraid to shoot your shot is a lot of the things that you're saying. And I love that. Great answer. And I'll be honest, a lot of the, best stuff that you read. It sounds crazy is from the beat reporters, obviously. But some of the fan blogs of these teams and some of these videos that they put together, the breakdowns, they're so much more passionate about it than some of the writers who are being paid to do it. And these guys are doing it as a hobby and I notice it. And I think if you really put your head and your heart into

it, I feel like there's going to be an audience, especially now where everyone can access everything. And trust me, whether the media guys want to tell you or not, they're checking their mentions. So don't feel a shame to send an article or send a video that you've put together via Twitter or social media or something to someone that you really look up to or just someone that you want their eyes on it. Okay. Next question. This is from Mark in Virginia. He wants, question for both you. Just which coaching moves this past off season, not including, doesn't have to just be head coach changes. Can you see having a big impact in improving a team's offense or defense from the previous season? Yeah, I'll go first. I think Dan Quinn and Dallas is an

interesting hire. This is a guy who I think every head coach in the NFL really respects for what he did in Atlanta and got them to the Super Bowl and of course had some playoff victories other years as well. And I think for DQ to now be a defensive coordinator of a team that's so loaded on offense and so raw on defense, I have no problem saying that with such youth and had such an abysmal season last year. I'm fascinating to see how DQ slides into that role there. And then on the offensive side of the ball, you know, a lot of these coaches and Sean, you know it, are offensive-minded head coaches. But I look at what they've got in Miami with Brian Flores' defensive coordinator,

but George Godsey and what's the running backs coach? I'm going blank right now. Eric Stoodsville. Stoidsville, the two of them together being co-coordinators with Chan Galey moving on. I think that's a fascinating dynamic for a team that there's a lot of expectations. Godsey, of course, came up through various different coaching trees. But I remember him as a Patriots guy. and then with some other teams,

but then Stoosville, who everyone raves about, those guys are co-coordinators in Miami to go with Flo, who's obviously the head coach and has those guys dialed in. So those are my two. Dan Quinn and then the co-offensive coordinators in Miami. I'm fascinated to see how that works out. I would say this is a little bit of a homer answer for me,

but when you look at a couple of the head coaches, I think Brandon Staley's going to do a great job with the Chargers. This is a guy that's got great command and capacity in all three phases, spending a year with him when you understand the intricate knowledge of the game, the details, the way he's able to see the game through the lens of his background as a quarterback, understanding and being around some really good coaches to where you're saying,

all right, I know what I want it to look like when I'm leading. I'm surrounding myself with great coaches that are leading on all three phases, while also having an ownership ability to develop a relationship with Herbert. I think Brandon will do a really nice job. And then some of the pieces, I'm excited to see how he activates the Derwin James of the world, the Joey Boses, the guys that, you know, Kenneth Murray, there's some exciting pieces to work with very similar to what was so enticing about

him talking about Aaron Donald, Jalen Ramsey, you know, when John Johnson was with us and now he's gone on to sign a big deal with the Browns that I think he'll do an outstanding job. I'm really excited for Brandon. And then a couple other guys that have gotten coordinator jobs from our staff. You know, Joe Barry's going to do a great job in Green Bay working with Matt LaFleur.

I think Shane Waldron is going to have a really good impact on the Seahawks offense other than hopefully twice a year when we play them. And, you know, and then Aubrey Pleasant, you know, another rising star in this profession. Talk up Aubrey. I think he needs it. He doesn't need it because he's a great coach and anybody that spent any time with him will feel the charisma, the presence, capacity for the game, great energy, but also ability to develop relationships. Those are some guys that I've had a chance to see up close and personal that I can tell you those are going to be great additions to

those staffs in Green Bay, Seattle and a guy leading the way with the Chargers. I'm excited for those guys. Okay, great. Let's get to the voicemail portion of air mail, as we're now calling it. Here we go. Hey, guys. This is Joey from North Dakota. Sean, my question for you is, what's your favorite big brain play that you might have called that worked out really well for you guys in your career? And, Peter, what's your favorite non-football question to ask anybody you might be interviewing? I'll So what's up, Craig? And I don't know if this has been pitched yet, but why not calling this segment airmail? I don't know.

Just came to me. Thanks, guys. Nice. There you go. Well, hey, you got a name of the segment. And then, you know, I'll keep it simple. You know, there's, I don't know that I've ever had really a big, I don't know. Big brain play.

I don't know that I've had a big brain play, but a good copy play. It might have been the two-point play that we scored against the Packers. you know, where we ended up kind of throwing a little perimeter screen out to Van Jefferson and then he flipped it to Cam Acres coming out of the backfield. But greatest coach's greatest thieves stole that one from the Miami Dolphins via Shane Waldron finding it. So look out for that on the Seattle Seahawks film next year. Yeah, I remember that play. It was a two-point conversion for the Dolphins. Salvin Ahmed made the little pitch and then they took it in. I recall it. And then I saw you guys pulled out in the playoffs. Airmail seems to be the unanimous pick where one episode left,

have it. My friend Eric Ziff, I finally got a hold of him. His was pick six and we do three and three, but I guess airmail might take a better. You know, if you give a little, if you, if you explain the background, you know, that's a good, good suggestion by Eric, but, uh, hey, you know, let's go ahead and vote. Pick six or airmail, Craig. What do you think? Well, I don't want to be constricted to the parameters of six questions every time. So I like airmail. That's fair. That's fair. Okay. Hey, airmail is. There you go. There you go. go. What was your friend, Sean? Rusty? What was his name? Bubba? His name was Bud. That's his name. His first name is John. Rusty, Bubba. You're really good listener. Let me tell you.

I don't even remember my question. What a question do I ask people? Non-football question. Yeah, non-football. You know what's always good? If you ask like a guy, like when you were a kid, what poster did you have in your room? And Sean, I think I've asked you that. an interview before too, because I think every guy or gal who ends up doing anything in athletics grew up loving the sport. So, like, I had a Don Mattingly hitman poster in my room, but I also had want to say a Warren Moon poster and then a Bernard King poster. And it was when Bernard King was randomly with the Bullets for a while. And I wasn't even a Bullets fan. It was one of those cool, like, Castikos Brothers posters. And it said like capital punishment or something like that.

Sean, what poster, like sports poster did you have in your bedroom as a kid? Yeah, I mean, I was, I still am. Michael Jordan, man. I had him crossing up, Russell, with the game winning shot against the Jazz in game six to cap off the second three Pete. I have Jerry Rice going in with his hands up after he's probably taking a slant 80 yards. Dion, after he took a pick six back against the Falcons when he was playing for the Niners, his one season, Super Bowl, defensive player of the year. You know, those are the ones, but there was always a steady Michael Jordan poster somewhere.

He's the man. I never was like a Farah Fawcett, Pamela Anderson poster, Britney Spears. But like, I feel like that's a lot of the answers I get from the athletes. And it'll be like, I had Beyonce up in my room. I'm like, okay, interesting. Craig, what about you? Who'd you have up poster-wise as a kid in your bedroom? Well, this is going to expose my age, but it was Ben Rathesburg.

Nice. That's fine. Yeah, I mean. Miami of Ohio has a lot of love on this podcast. Don't get me wrong. My mom's side's from Pittsburgh, so I grew up rooting for Steelers. And yeah, Ben was drafted, I think, when I was 10. Wow.

Okay. So, well, so if you did have a picture of a babe when you were growing up, Peter, who would you have put a poster up of if you could pick? You could call. Denise Richards was a big fan. Yasmin Bleath, I was a big fan. You must have been a Baywatch fan, huh? You probably were watching it.

Donna D. Eriko, there were moments. Yeah, Baywatch, yeah, Sean, Baywatch. You? Can you answer? How about you? How about you? Craig? Hold on, hold on. I had one of my wife growing up. Let me just make sure I, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Craig, what about you? Depending on when it came out, Megan Fox, Transformers was a big one. Solid.

I mean, sometimes you just got to play the hits, you know? Yeah, yeah. That's it. Sean, can you answer, or is this? The question, you know, the question was mine. not to be answered. Great, I'm going to cut my answer. It's a good place to end it, guys. I love this podcast. I love you guys. We got one more to go. It's going to be up next week. And it's going to be a doozy. We can't wait. But thank you for Joe Judge. Thank you to both of you guys. And of course, thank you to the listeners who I've been sending it in. Craig, one last time. Give us the email

address if someone wants to send an email for next week's podcast. Sure. Flyingcoach podcast at gmail.com. And I'd be remiss if I didn't thank the great Yasmin Bleeth as we wrap this one, Flying Coach. Guys, this has been awesome. We got one more left. Let's finish up strong. Great job, guys.