The Ringer NFL Show - 'GM Street’ — Bill Simmons and the Trade Deadline (Ep. 173)

Episode Date: October 31, 2017

The Ringer's Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier join up with Bill Simmons to break down the Patriots parting ways with Jimmy Garoppolo (02:00), whether the Buffalo Bills are the best in the AFC East (23:15), the problems in Carolina (37:00), the Texans shipping out Duane Brown (42:00), how the 49ers landed Jerry Rice (45:00), the mess in Miami (49:30), and the success of the Eagles (59:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Tate Frazier and sitting across from me in the office of the great Bill Simmons. I have Michael Lombardian, Bill Simmons himself. What's going on, everybody. What an honor. It's a great day. I mean, GM Street gets its first guest. Take Frazier. I mean, it's awesome.

It took a while. It took like six months. It took a dramatic Patriots trade for me to go. It's a lot of you doing an pot today. I won't it. I thought we're going to have to do one last thing. If I was in no condition after I was like, oh my God. Yeah, you've been keeping it back.

So for people that don't know, obviously a lot of people do know now. Jimmy Garoppolo was traded to the 49ers for a second round pick. But it was so much big. than that because this is like the succession plan of the next 12 years of the Patriots has been basically tossed aside and they're saying now we think Tom Brady can play till he's 45 there's no other way to look at this that's the only way to look at it and then the the layer that has to be added to this is how much longer is belchick on a coach because there's always been an instinct and this isn't coming from him this is my instinct that he would never want to

leave the organization without a quarterback he's always had sustainable values to him. And a handsome quarterback at that. That's the thing with Garoppel. Who's delivered. Who's delivered? Who's a really good quarterback? I think part of this whole thing for me is I've watched Garoppel.

And I really like Garapolo. And so Belichick, for me, it was like Belichick leaves the organization in good hands when he goes. Like they could have just transitioned Brett Farr of Aaron Rogers and moved on. And now there's no succession plan whatsoever. I mean, Brian Hoer probably get signed later today or tomorrow, but that ain't it. All right, here's my theory. And I'm glad you guys didn't do an emergency pod because I wanted to read the stories. You got to wait for stuff to trickle out.

You knew emergency pod after a game, but I think something like this, you really kind of get a feel for it. So now it's been, what, 18 hours? How long has it been? About almost 18 hours, yeah. So I think they kept Garoppolo. What do we think the best offer was for Garapolo in the spring? We don't think Cleveland put number 12 on the table, right? No, Cleveland never.

Cleveland's always tried to buy on 30 cents on a dollar. You know the analytical people. They're trying to buy 30 cents on a dollar. They never were in this ever. And they were never going to trade him to Houston because Houston's actually good. He's smart enough not to go in conference. And I think Brady's turning 40 took a big beating in the Super Bowl last year. There's no history of a guy playing into his 40s like that, even though Brady, you know, was the most logical candidate.

And I think they hedged their bets each way. And it's like, well, keep Jimmy. Ride it out. Let's see what we get from Brady this year. Let's make sure he doesn't tail off. And if he doesn't, you can't pay 12, 13 million for a quarterback who's not even going to play, one. And then two, it's not fair to Jimmy.

And what have we learned from Belichick over the last few years? If he feels like somebody's not all in on the team, he gets rid of them. Not that Jimmy's a bad guy. Right. But Jimmy's a guy who can make $20 million a year as the Niners quarterback versus 10 million to play as a Patriots quarterback. He's not going to be happy. and I think they hedge their bets

and then they realize, all right, Brady's the QB, we got to cut the ties here. Is that realistic or am I being too diplomatic? I think he closed the last window was this window. But for me, he traded him to San Francisco, a place he likes Kyle Shanahan a lot. Now, Kyle Shanahan runs the organization.

Let's get it clear. I mean, John Lynch has the title, but everybody works for Kyle. That's A. B, he really likes Mike Shatahan. They have a good relationship. So part of him is... They're cut from the same cloth. Exactly. So he, Belichick is pro-Shanahan family. Pro-Sadahan family, close to him. You like the Shanahan's. I love the Shanahan's. I thought they'd be a sleeper. So you're Shanahan over Schottenheimer. Yes. Yes. Okay. However, that being said, I, and trading him to

San Francisco, it really embellishes that this kid will do well in that system. So now it even makes the the Patriots looked like they knew they had a good thing and they traded him. It isn't like he's going to go there like like Garrett Blunt went to Pittsburgh or Matt Castle went to Kansas City. This guy's going to succeed. I think he did him a favor, trading him there. But he also put him in the NFC where he was that the deal on him. And he put him in the NFC, which really helped.

So he could make, I think this trade came down to he was dealing with a decision maker on one end of the phone that if Kyle wanted to make the deal, the deal could go through. And it also was out of conference. But for me, part of me is like that succession plan was in place. I mean, it was so in place. But you know who it wasn't in place for? Tate? Yeah.

And guesses? Tom Brady. No, it wasn't. You know who was like, you know what? I don't really like the succession plan. The guy who wanted to play for five more years, he didn't want this young guy breathing down his neck. And my guess, I don't think he's sabotaged or anything.

But I think Brady looked at this as this is a competition. They have my replacement. Everybody thinks I've won five Super Bowls. Now it's time for me to ride off into the sunset. And he, like, feels the opposite. it. He's like, put out this giant book this year about here are all the reasons I'm going to play until I'm 45 basically. And he, and he's been pretty good. He's been really good. He's been 90% of what he's normally is anyway. I think you were right about the trial period too. So you let

him go out for eight weeks. He's not, yeah, he's winning all the games. Everything is fine. It looks like the same Tom. It's like, we're content here. And who's to say Jimmy's going to do the Tom Brady thing, which is I'm going to take less money for the good of the team? He might not be that guy. That's a special Brady thing. Well, first of all, he can't because... Because he's never made any money. Well, the other layer in this that adds intrigue, I know the JFK files got released, but this could be another intrigue. Don Yee represents Tom Brady. Yeah. And he represents Jimmy Garapolo. So there's no way Don Yee is going to agree to a contract.

Because he's trying to get paid by somebody. Right. But here's the other piece of that, though. If he tries to bone over Jimmy Garaplo in a contract to help Brady and the Patriots, what does Jimmy Garoppel do? He fires Don and you get a different agent. So Donnie's got to do right by Jimmy Grappo the whole time. And at some point he looks at Belichick. He's like, what are we going to do here? Brady's going to play until he's 45.

You know what I know it. He's going to kill himself trying. Jimmy's not going to wait until he's 32 to be the quarterback. Right. There's 12 teams that need a quarterback. Like he's worth 20 million a year. Short of franchise and Jimmy, the Patriots had no way to keep this going. But also, like, how dumb would it have been the franchise of backup quarterback?

Yeah, well. You can't do that in the mind. It's $23 million. I mean, I'm sure the Redskins probably could have figured it out. But nonetheless, but, you know, they couldn't franchise them. And Yee, no matter what they offered him, he was going to say no. Yee was never going to do a deal where we'll give you $10 million a sign. It'll be $1 million, $1 million.

And then $15 million. You know, like one of those deals. And how does he explain that to Brady? He can't. He could never do that deal. He could never do a deal. Brady's like, what? So you made a deal for my successor?

You have a timeline for when I'm done. Yeah. Tate, Lombardi and I are too close to this. You have no stake at all other than the fact that Steph Curry tweeted at you read before we. So have a podcast. Rattled. We had to change your outfit. Like you were just, now you're, now you're, now you're getting a PR firm.

Yeah, it's really tough. Take it's going to be gone. My agent on the line is Jimmy Garoppel. Tate's leaving the ringer. Tate's the new succession plan. But you have no skin in this game. You heard they were trading Jim McGroplo. What was your reaction?

I thought that they were going to trade for a defensive player. I don't flip the pick for her. I'm fine with the second ground pick. I think that's better. I think we heard third round right in the spring. It was like a third round and a pick. I just don't know why you don't say, thanks for the second rounder.

Can I also get Ray Ray McDonald? Like why can't they get someone on defense? Like a pass thrusher? Like what about a pick swap down the road where you go? All right, second rounder. But if you win 10 games with Jimmy in the next two years, we get the right to swap second round for a third or something. Like it sounds like they could have got a little more.

That was my reaction was to get him for a second round pick. Straight up. Straight up. But we should say a great. second round pick. Correct. This is somewhere 33, 34, 35. But if you're the Niners and you look at it from their advantage point,

they give up a second round pick, they're now going to have a top five pick. Yeah. That they don't need to pick a quarterback for. Right. So now they could trade that top five pick and start going all the way down and pick the guy they want and recoup that and basically end up trading. They can't know with the 16th pick and the 36 pick and it's basically the same thing.

And basically the same thing, get the same players. So to me it put them in perfect position. It could be like the Tennessee Titans a little bit when they, didn't need a quarterback and they traded golf to the Rams or was it or when would you see so they moved from two to three right yeah they picked up an extra thing which then they flipped to Jimmy so basically what they get from going from two to three they got Ruben Foster and Jimmy basically right they got Ruben no well they traded their original one so they still have the bears too that's right so that yeah they still have the bears too however it works they did a nice job they did a nice job and

I'm a Jimmy believer I don't think he's I don't think he'll be a top five quarterback but I think he's certainly at that next level. All right. So if you were drafting players, Matt Schaub, Matt Ryan, Jimmy Garoppolo, all played for Kyle Shanahan and played well. So you put, just think Jimmy in that offense, what Matt Schaub did, or what Matt Ryan did last year. We see the decline in Matt Ryan.

I mean, Shanahan's a really, really good quarterback coach. And I think this is where Garapolo gets the benefit. Belichick did him a huge favor. Could you imagine if he traded him to Cleveland? that mess or traded him somewhere where it didn't have a quarterback. He gets him to a guy who can really coach a quarterback. Do you think is there a possibility that in April they were like, can you trade Jimmy? He's ready to run a team. And Belichick said, hold on. Let's make sure Tom is the same time. I believe in Jimmy. Can we at least give this, can we at least go in October?

And if Tom is still Tom, and I feel like I can get a couple more years at him, I promise you, I'll trade him. I think that I think that Belichick got to the last window. I think it was hard for him. I don't, you listen to that press conference today. That didn't seem like a man. He seemed dejected by the whole situation. I don't think he really,

I don't think this is something that he didn't really want. So what do you think of the conspiracy theory that Kraft made him do the trade? Well, Kraft, you know, Kraft and Brady, to me, it looks to me on the surface.

When you look at this thing is that whatever plans they had, there were detours at every end, whether it was Kraft, whatever. Brady's play this year closed the window. And Don Yee, not being able to do an extension, close that other window. You know it was a bad idea having the exact same agent as the guy who has the job you want.

Come of this. Get another agent. Yeah. Well, it was happenstance, right? So she has Jimmy Garoppolo. I'm in Cleveland. He has them. I get fired.

Go to the Patriots. He still has them. But at some point, you would have thought when Jimmy was there, this is the kind of kid Jimmy is, right? Jimmy said, I can't have the same agent as Tom Brady. I got to fire you and get somebody else. He's stuck with him the whole time. And that's the thing. Everybody loves Jimmy.

My question is, the couple of people I talk to who know things, they're watching Jimmy day in and day out. And you don't make this trade and leave yourself without a backup quarterback for this season because you have a chance to win the Super Bowl unless you think if Brady gets hurt, if I put Jimmy in, we can't win the Super Bowl. Yeah, right? I've heard that before. I don't buy that.

You don't buy that one? I don't buy that one because I think Jimmy could, because I think. Jimmy on this Patriots team with how bad the front seven is. is with no Edelman. Yeah, but Jim, something, I think what you would see if Jimmy were the quarterback. Now, Brady's thrown the deep ball really well,

but I think you would see more out of Brandon Cooks if Jimmy were the player. I feel like Lombardi's in a little bit of pain right now. I love Jimmy. I think he's shot by this trade. I think he was. I think you were excited for the succession plan. I mean,

my whole makeup is a builder of teams, and this is like a pillar comes down. Yeah. This is like you want to be able to do what Ted Thompson did, from Brett Farr to Aaron Rogers. And this is like that high second level. So you think he's potentially Aaron Rogers? I mean, not as good as Aaron Rogers, but like in that level.

And that's why I quoted the three quarterbacks that have played for this guy. I mean, he's made, look, we see it this year. Steve Sarkeesian has taken Matt Ryan back to who Matt Ryan really is. Last year, Matt Ryan was the MVP of the league, average it over nine yards. This guy is a really good quarterback coach. He'll run a really good offense. My question to you, was there ever, when they win the Super Bowl, the Patriots win the Super Bowl, Did Bill Belichick and Kraft ever sit down and say,

we should have the talk with Tom, like what they have with Fav and say, we appreciate everything you've done for us. We think we're going to go with Jimmy and we're going to move forward in a different. Could that ever cross their mind? Here's the difference. Because nobody remembers this now, but Favreve was really bad when they made that move. Farrf had a bad season. They went four and 12.

Brady won the Super Bowl. Yeah. Brady won the Super Bowl and then comes in this year. and considering like having Edelman taken away right before the season started, having these new receivers, Gronk, you don't know whether you can rely on him game to game. The O-line hasn't been that good.

They've had to keep the ball a lot, to keep the defense off the field. They've had to change the way they play. He's actually been really good this season. If you look at Rathlisberger, if you look at Rivers, if you look at Eli, and you look at their statistical numbers,

the last, they're all trending down. Brady's numbers this year, the last year, exactly the same. Yeah. And even though... In different circumstances. Right. The difference is he's not as effective on third down in the red zone, which could be partly

Edelman's fault. It could be the all-line. I mean, he's not making plays on third down in the red zone. So there's no... You can't go in there. If you said, look, we should just keep Jimmy and get rid of Brady. You really don't have a case to make. I mean, you're a lawyer with no real evidence to support other than the fact you say, well,

he's 40 years old. He's going to eventually go. That's your only case. I heard Coward today talking about how this is the most loaded offense, Tom Brady's ever had. And I'm like, we don't have a third down receiver. Right. If it's third and five.

Do you think you watch 2007 or we just forgot about it? I don't know if he's watched the Patriots this year because, you know, Rex Burke had, even the limited possessions he had in this last game, at least when he's in there, you know we can run and throw. Right. Right. But they still don't have the third and five Brady's just locked in telepathically with one guy like, all right.

Yeah, run over the middle and not all hate. We don't have that. So I would, I would say. This is one of the worst offenses he's had. It might be from a fantasy football talent standpoint, a good offense, but I think he's really struggled trying to figure out how it fits him. So my question about what the Patriots are now is we thought they were going to make a, we talked about Landry being a potential guy.

We talked about maybe even T.Y. Hilton. We thought they were going to address something offensive. Or second tight end I actually thought was the most realistic. Yeah, or like Eric E. Bron, he was apparently out there being shop, you know, maybe make that move. So they don't do any of that. They basically stay where they are, which means. I don't think he thinks this is a Super Bowl team. I think he feels.

I mean, he's seen sad. I think he feels like this is a team. I think if they could have gotten a defensive tackle, I think they would have done that. I think if they could have got a defensive end, they could have done that. The receiver, whether Hogan's out a week, two weeks, I mean, eventually they'll get him back. You know, Mitchell could come back. Offensibly, they have to get better. Everybody has to get better.

But defensively, I think the other thing we didn't talk about, when they traded Berset this summer, you could not have possibly thought you were going to trade the Garoppolo in October. Yeah, so that's... You went from three really... There's a disconnect. The room was filled. Berset probably wasn't going to make the team

because you felt like you know, you had two quarterbacks. It would take two injuries to get to them. Now all of a sudden, you've traded Berset, and now you've traded Garapolo, and you went from a really good room to one guy in the room. That, to me... And he mentioned that in the press conference.

today. Yeah. He said we, we had an unbelievable quarterback situation and he acknowledged it. I mean, but I, but but but the not to be you know, not to be Oliver Stone here and start a conspiracy theory, but the reality here is I think he saw his team and that team when he traded Berset this summer he thought was really good. I mean, are they nine point favorite against nine and a half point favorite against the chiefs on opening day. I think everybody thought they were really good, right? They see this team and all of a sudden they got a lot of, we got a lot of holes. Wait a minute. We got a lot of problems. I think it's the worst Patriots team since the 09 team.

I would agree with that. Maybe since Brady... Doesn't mean they can't win the Super Bowl. No, because in 13, they played in the conference championship game, and I didn't think that team was very good either. Right. You know, but that team was pretty banged up. Yeah, they were hurt.

Everybody was hurt. But this team, I think the other factor in this is we got way more holes than I ever thought possible. And how do we fix them if we don't start getting some draft picks? And to carry a backup quarterback... Speaking of that, don't forget about the first round pick they did get from the stupid deflake gate thing right which would have which would have been you know a defensive lineman which then they trade the the first rounder this year for brandon cooks and you're starting to

feel the effects and this is what happened in o nine in 2010 they missed a couple drafts they just had a bad drafts right and it always feels like when you miss those drafts like three years later that's when you really start to feel it with your team when you trade for a receiver and you give up a one you're telling yourself at least from the bell of checky in school your team's really good right we don't really have anything yeah you're saying this is the missing piece this is the missing piece this is the missing piece you know and i think i think for all to talk about what a great offseason they had i think they're off season as we look back on it wasn't as good as they think it was and i think that's the big big issue dwayne allen has been disappointing right he's been horrible i thought dway now

would be a much better player for yeah but he's been a disappointment burke had got hurt gilmore Gamewater's been a catastrophe. They played better with Batamose. Not a pop your name in my dad's house right now. Absolutely not. The Bill has won that one. They've played better with Johnson Batamosea Corner than they have with... Who I didn't know who that was three weeks ago.

Right. Exactly. I mean, he was an elite special teams player. Play was with me at the Browns, an elite special teams guy, great gunner, kickoff, played at Stanford. Nobody would ever give this kid a chance to play any corner. He came finally, he got a little bit of a chance. He couldn't play in Detroit, a corner.

They would never play him. Came there and he's played well. because he tackles and they'll do what they ask him to do. Akeem Hicks hurt too. Oh, yeah. That's the killer. They cut ties with a couple guys that have hurt. So go back three years.

Chandler Jones, I'm not talking about Jamie Collins, but that's a great conversation because if you go back, so they have Akeem Hicks, got Jamie Collins, you got Chandler Jones, you got Dante High Tower. Who's the big nose tackle, Alan Branch? You got Alan Branch. You got all these guys, you've got to resign and you only have so many, so much money to do it with. Trade Chandler Jones, good trade. The only time they've shown that they're willing to really give out the big money is Seymour, right?

Richard Seymour was the only one that I can remember getting a big deal. Yeah, Gilmore got a huge deal. But yeah, the Gilmore, I thought the Gilmore signing was perplexing when it happened because I thought it meant they were in trade Butler. And then they didn't trade him. And it was very anti-Belichick because normally he thinks about- And it's hurt Butler's value this season. He thinks about the ramifications on the player.

And in this case, it's like, we're not paying, not only are we not paying you, but now we're going to pay this guy. instead and you're probably, you might be better than this guy and he's going to make a lot more money than you. You're going to have to earn his contract. And I think it really hurt Butler. He's admitted it. It was like that kid that they signed from the Ravens, the outside linebacker, remember years

ago? Oh, Adelius Thomas. But the other thing is so they had these guys and the one guy they chose the sign. And if you would have put me under a lie detector and said, who were they going to keep? Chandler Jones. Jamie Collins. Jamie. I would, the last guy I would have said would have been High Tower.

Only because not because not Hightower is not a good player. Injury. Injuries, durability. And they went ahead and paid Hightower. And then they paid Gilmore, who also has durability issues. Right. So now they paid Hightower and he's got durability. It's a two-year contract. They can get out of it next year.

But that would, if you just said Chandler Jones or Hightower, I'm taking Chandler Jones. You just said, High Tower or Collins. Collins is a little bit of a, that was a whole other set of issues. Yeah, that's a chemistry thing. You know, but to me, that's where I think. And then the key, Akeem Hicks, Alan Branch. Keem Hicks is a disaster because that guy, the Bears fans love him. He is a great player.

You bring him up to Robert Mays and he starts like hyperventilate and he gets so excited. I thought he was jumping. They missed on Connie, Connie Eli. Yeah. Yeah. Because they'd bid that little trade and I think they thought he was going to be their star in pass rush. Well, they flopped it. They moved down about 11 spots for Ely, which ended up being, you know, and he's played good

for the Jets. I mean, make no, you know. And so that I, but again, the landscape when they traded Brissette to where the landscape is now, they thought this. this team was a lot better than I think it is right now. I still feel like Lombardi deep down feels like Kraft made Belichick do this. Yeah, this was definitely something. It's hurting him as he speaks.

It breaks my heart. It does. If we put Lombardi to a lie detector test, do you think, what do you think he would say? Yeah, absolutely. I think we're all feeling it, Mike. I don't know if I could. Michael Lombardy, you are not the father. I would have to get, I would have to get somebody to come in and people for me.

I mean, I love Tom Brady. I don't want to be proceedings. I love Tom Brady. I feel like you guys are slighting him right now. Nope. He's going to do the Jordan thing. He's going to put a little bulletin board in the room by himself sitting in the dark, just watching tape. He's got no friends now.

It's going to be great. No, I will say this. He is better athletically and he throws the deep ball better than he did five years ago. And it makes no sense. But all I know is what I'm watching. I think he has figured out this pliability and this dieting and this sleeping and all this stuff. He figured out how to reshape his body and his brain and everything. to be more competent.

And it makes no sense. And especially after like, you know, all the PD stuff we've had over the last three decades, obviously I'm a little nervous about it because we've learned over the years not to trust. Right. At least in their late 30s early who. But then you see the reasoning. I read his whole book. It's like, yeah, this makes sense.

I could probably do this if I was a complete maniac who played professional athlete. Or he's a replicant. Or he's an alien. Yeah, we don't. I mean, it's one or the other, but regardless, he's still playing and he's still good. The thing I want to talk to you guys about is the tipping of the scales in the AFCEs. When they started the season, it was surefire. The Patriots are going to win the AFC East.

They always do. People are talking about going undefeated. The Buffalo Bills are a team now with McDermott, Bean. They're making a bunch of moves. They look like they're a contender. Tyrod Taylor looks like a suitable quarterback that can take them deep in the playoffs right now. They trade for Kelvin Benjamin. a third round pick, a seventh run pick.

Can I debunk this in 30 seconds? Yeah, please too. Let's just go through their schedule. Okay. I know you love the bill. Slombardi, on this podcast. I think McDermott is scary. He was saying that.

He changed the culture, all that stuff. But they're five and two. Just going to go through these. I think they lose to the Jets. Go Mickey. Jets Thursday night. That's a weird game. That's a weird game.

Could be five and three, right? Look, the Jets have had two 14-point leads in the four. I mean, they've been really close. They linger. They're the classic 55-minute team. The classic. Home for the Saints next week. I think they win one and lose one, right?

One-on-one? I think so. They'll always beat a margin. Like the Saints defense is good. It isn't great. Okay. At Chargers, at KC, home for the Pats. They can go two out of three there.

They would be lucky. So at least three losses of those five. Right. So now we're at... Seven and four? No, they'd have five losses at that point. Then they're home for Indy, home for Miami, at New England at Miami. I don't think they get to 10 wins.

When did they? I just don't think they get to 10 wins. They'll beat New England. It'll be a hard game. When is that New England game in Buffalo? Because that game is going to get flexed. I mean, we're going to have Al Michaels in Buffalo. That is the home game.

So that's week 13. I don't think they can flex that one. Oh, okay, because that's going to be a good game. That'll be a four o'clock start. I don't think we see second half of the year. One team goes up and like three teams go down. I think as much as I like the bills, I think they go down. They've been resilient.

They traded Marcel Darius. They've been resilient with everything they've done. This is a great one for you, like Lombardi loves culture, which is why the Deshaun Watson case, which beyond you were making it all last spring. It wasn't just the talent thing. Like, if the Browns bring this guy in, this guy will change the culture in Cleveland. They have a horrible culture.

This guy will change that. Buffalo, it seems like a lot of the moves they made were all about who wants to be here, who's going to play hard, who actually wants to earn minutes on the field. Every move they've made has gone that way, which is, Tate, why would they trade for Calvin Benjamin? I think they're just... Your least favorite panther. They're the Panthers of the North. I mean, McDermott and Bean have basically just poached everyone they liked in Carolina. They brought a bunch of guys up there.

They got everyone in Buffalo. to buy in. Oh, I forgot it. So, that's right, they have parallel ties with them. Or they have a bunch of... I mean, they have all these guys

that they liked his locker room guys. They really, they thought made everyone buy in and galvanized each other. Well, Sean McCoy, they loved. I mean, he said that from the start. He's like, like this guy's a leader of our team.

Tyrod's a great leader of the team. We always like Tyrod. We always talk to me as a sleeper. Could you imagine if Tyrod was on Denver? Could you imagine if Dyride was on Denver, like what they could do, moving them around and doing all that stuff? Simmon's got to be hurt, though,

right? He's terrible. Well, I mean, I hope he's hurt. Heard or bad would be a good. We said a good segment for this back. I was like, I hope he's hurt. Simeon's an eight-game quarterback. That's about all he is.

But I think that the Chip Kelly deserves a ton of credit for the bills. Because Chip Kelly traded. He gets the Super Bowl rig. Chip Kelly traded with Sean McCoy because he didn't fit the culture in there. Yeah. What culture is that? And so he went to Buffalo. And really, LaShaugh McCoy changed who he was.

LeShaw McGoy was embarrassed. He did this. They got a new, like he's become like a leader. If you would have said three years ago that LaShawn McCoy is a leader in the, no way. Like this guy leaves no tip on money, was all about himself. I want a new contract. He's become the spokesman for the bills. Like if you guys don't want to be here, get out.

Like you never have seen a bill player complain about trading Darius or trading Parker. Sammy Watkins. None of that. None of it. They've all bought in. And now they take Benjamin. And I think they have a locker room. They feel like they can handle Benjamin.

It's interesting because in the AFC 9 and 7 might get that second wildcard. because if you go through all the divisions, the AFC West is self-combusting. AFC South is just a nine and seven morass. There's no second good AFC North team. Denver has their last stand in Philly this week. This is it. If Denver can't beat Philly in there,

because then they have the Patriots coming off the bond. Denver should have lost by 40 points yesterday. If Andy doesn't run that trip play, that tiring. I mean, they kept saying it was a great play by the safety. The ball was like, instead of hitting a three-hour, and he should have hit, instead of hitting a six iron,

the guy should have hit a three-yard. It was like four yards short. Wasn't a great play. I could have caught that. It was horrible. It's really bad. I think it's going to be the bills or like the Raiders. Raiders are done.

Raiders are done. Chargers, probably Chargers bills are going to be in this. They're going to flip it around the Chargers. That AFC wildcar spot will be fun. That could actually be a good game when they go out West. Can I just one last to wrap up the Patriots thing and then you can run an ad for one of our great sponsors? Is it just possible? There is no conspiracy that.

it's just like in April Don Ye was saying like what we discussed before Doni is like hey man can you trade Jimmy it's time for a run of a team and Belichick said give me six months I just want to make sure Tom can really play until

age 43 and if he can I promise you I'll trade him before the deadline and then we got to like week seven and Donnie was like hey man you promise me like we've been good soldiers here come on and then he just goes to Shanai and my question is why not call the Browns and try to get one of those first

Ranners. Well, he didn't want to deal with the Browns. I mean, first of all, he didn't want to leak out. Well, A, the Browns would, you get the Browns on the phone. They have to check with this person, check with that. There's no way they were going to make a deal with. They got to check with Billy Bean. Well, you know the Haslam's at the ring. No matter what. Yes, that's right. It's, it's great that that's, it's great that Tate Fraser brought this up because Hugh Jackson has come out twice now and said the Haslam has had his back. And yet the Haslums haven't been quoted in either of the times, which means they don't have his back, right? But nobody's figured that out. I love that that's a sign that you're the people that you're the boss of don't trust you

when they're saying publicly how they're like if if people that work for the ring are like Bill Simmons has my back. I'm like, why the fuck are you saying that? Exactly. What do you're like I'm a crazy person? That's exactly the way. What are you doing? So, but I think that I don't think there's a conspiracy theory. I just think to me it's shocking knowing how organized and and future-oriented the franchise is that they would make the deal. But look, I think he made the deal, put the kid in the greatest spot. If he were going to pick a spot to put a quarterback in, San Francisco. He took care of him.

He took really good care of him. I want to believe in a world where Bill Belichick is a nice guy who took care of a guy who waited a long time for his job. I think he took care of him. I think there's no doubt he took care of him. I'm going to root for Jimmy Garoppel on San Francisco, Tate. Yeah. Tate doesn't care.

Tate's going to go work for Steph Curry and Under Armour. He's already out. He's at the door. I just feel bad for Kirk Cousins. I just, I wanted Kirk Cousins to have a new home. How can you feel bad for him? He's going to make a billion dollars next year. He's going to own the Redskins by the end of it.

Yeah, where does he go now? I don't know. He could go to Pittsburgh. Yeah, he'd go to Denver. Pitchard? Why not? Where's Rothusburg going to be? He's talked about retiring already.

Have you watched Rothusburg? I mean, Rothusberger is like the NBA guy who used to be able to dunk and can't dunk anymore. Like when you watch him throw. Exactly. Too soon. Oh, yeah. I mean, when you watch him, like God, that was a bad throw. And then he makes a couple.

He like his lower body. He has no strength in his lower body. Amari Stademeyer. Exactly. Maris Stademeyer, that's a good one. I mean, just keep the Blake fans from going out. And he can play on instincts, right?

Yeah. But Ben, who have the throws that make you always back. Yeah, one or two, right? I had that in the KC game. He had a couple of, yeah, like, he's back. I'm like, oh, Ben, here he comes.

But then he's not, then he disappears for a while. Look, the Giants, I mean, there were 14 teams before the trade. We talked about it that would be needed quarterbacks. And that, we were counting the Bengals is one of them. And look, so the market for Kirk Cousins is going to be as robust as ever.

I can't believe the brands traded down from the 12th. The Wince trade is defensible to me. They didn't totally believe in them. They got a shitload for him. But they just could have taken Watson. They could have Miles Garrett and Deshawn Watson. Like, here's our team. I don't think they got confused.

I think they think they thought they picked the right to Sean, but they picked the wrong to Sean. I mean, you think they had their, I just think they had a mixed up. They were just like, dis show, oh, right there. I talked with Sal about this

on Monday. Kaiser can't throw a 12-yard straight pass. He could, but to, you said you didn't watch them in college. The TV right there, I don't know if he could hit it. And you gave yourself it out saying,

look, I don't watch college football. And as you were saying that, I'm saying to myself, I do watch college football and he couldn't do it at Notre Dame. Right. That was the problem.

It was like, clearly he was inaccurate. And yeah, and with Watson, I watched him once, and I'm like, oh, that guy's a star. Yeah, like, but I felt that way above,

Vince Young. I think Vince Young had had personal issues that prevented him from making it. This Watsoncade clearly has no issues at all and is special. Right. And he's, and he makes everybody else around them better. I mean, who's happier than DeAndre Hopkins on the planet? Oh, my God. Bill O'Brien. Well, Bill O'Brien who started to have a genius. Tom Savage over. Had it's not ready yet. I have a feel that Tom Savage can lead us to 20 points. The game manager. Tom Savage deserves a contract after that. Whoever his agent has, he really figured that one out. That was good. Tate, do you think when you work with Steph Curry, you'll host this podcast?

Yeah. It'll be like an interrupted type thing. I said this when I started doing media. My goal was to be the Ahmad Rashad to Stefan Curry. I just didn't play football or anything. You're getting close, man. You just tweeted at you. I'm starting it right now.

That's my campaign just to be Amad Rashad. You've had his back to the bitter end. And this is much like Belichick with Tom Brady. Yeah, no doubt. But I will say, as a Pats fan, I was worried. forever that this was going to end the way it started with Bledso and Brady and Belchuk just shanking Bledso because

he wants to win and that's all he cares about. I think the circle of life was going to end it with Brady. That's why I think Brady deserved to get the bloodso treatment. Like, you know, he did it to the old guy before. He didn't do anything. What did he do? The guy got hurt.

He's already done this. I think two things have racked their decision. I think Hightower making those two plays in the Super Bowl. I think that gave a sense of the, you know, there was a sense of, of there there is a heart that beats in new england yeah and brady's five super bowls clearly it was like this is not the best business decision you can make for the long term it's the best decision you can make for the short term this is the death of the patriots potentially you know

that's why i would think most people would be rejoined most anti-patriot people would be saying we're we're in three years we could be doomed we could be picking in the top five because we don't have a quote that's what i'm saying about the bills i think that they are they are saying that we're We're the new team. We're going to be the class of the AFC East in two years. A lot of teams have said that day. Get in line. You know, the time to draft a quarterback is when you don't need one.

And that's when we pick Garoppelow. And now they need a backup quarterback. And they don't have, they don't have. He's crestfallen. They don't have a team. He had the whole succession plan in his head. They don't have a team. They don't have a team that can allocate an asset to a backup quarterback

because they have so many holes. somewhere else. Could they bring Brissette back? Does your dad realize this now? Does he realize that? I said yesterday, I called my, I FaceTime my dad, and he answered and he said, we don't have a backup quarterback. A quarterback's 40. We don't have a backup quarterback. He was just so flustered. But I think they should bring Mark Brunel back to be the backup, just so they have the oldest quarterback room in history. That'd be fun. We're just making it happen. Well, we're getting Hoyer, right? You are getting Hoyer. But see, they had to cut Hoyer. Hoyer has so many guarantees in his contract. It's complicated. So by the 49ers,

releasing him. They'll pay him the remaining guarantee and then they can get them on the, if they put them in the trade, then the Patriots have to redo the contract. It becomes too messy. Well, we're going to take a quick break. I want to come back and talk about more trades and some people that need to get insulted by Mr. Michael. Lamar. Quick break to get a word from our sponsor, Wish, want to say big, then you need Wish. The mobile mall app that connects you to thousands of merchants. Wish makes it easy to shop fashion, shoes, electronics, kitchen gadgets, and more directly from. the makers. That way you pay

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Obviously, today was a trade deadline, ended at four. A fun trade deadline, finally. Yeah, 4 p.m. It felt like for the first time I could remember I was actually monitoring my phone and my Twitter. I think there's less than it was. I know that there were a few teams that were trying, like Philadelphia was trying to get a tackle late. They didn't make a deal on it. They turned down a couple things.

Mistake. Yeah. Because they're too close. New England was looking for some help. I think Indianapolis was willing to get rid of pretty much most of their roster for whatever anybody wanted to pay nobody wanted to pay it i actually surprised that after the the deal today that the benjamin deal was the only one that really came through after the ajai deal i thought the benjamin i thought there be more i wanted to ask you about so marty hurdy

makes a deal we talked about the kelvin benjamin trade third and seventh rounder and he's the interim gm people that don't know herney was there from 2003 to 2011 i mean you can scratch the he's not relieving he's that i mean he got why does he haunt me lombardie why does he want to do this to me He and the owner are tight. I mean, the owner wants to make sure the players get paid. Marty will take care of them. He's the only guy in the history of the NFL. They doubled down on two running backs and gave him multiple million dollars.

Well, not only that, he gave Jake Delholm $20 million with no offset clause in his contract so he could double dip with the bra. Most teams of you had done that, they would take you like, he would be in Elba. You know where Elba is? That's where they sent Napoleon after they threw him out of France. That's where he would be in most organizations. It's time to go on land, basically. Exactly.

Time to go. Bring your toothbrush. Well, was he the guy who picked Christian McCaffrey 8th? No. No, that was Gettelman. That was Gettlement. Tate and I talked about this before my podcast. I thought McCaffrey was going to be awesome.

I paid $20 from my fantasy league. He's not awesome. And if you're taking a running back in the top 10, that guy has to be Leonard Fournett. It's got to be like the all-time short thing. It's got to be Zeke Elliott. This guy, I'm not sure what he is. Is he Rex Burk?

I like McCaffrey, but I've made this mistake. We drafted Eric McCalf. And so what I learned from the Eric Metcalf thing, and Tate and I talk about this all the time is you end up running plays for McCafferty. We call it Percy Harvonitis. Exactly. And so this is what the- McAfree is going to be better than Percy Harvard and Eric McAff.

But right now, if I'm them, if I'm the Carolina Panthers and I just traded Benjamin, I go in and tell McCaffrey, you're a wide receiver. You're a wide receiver. Because the problem with him in running back is he gets tackled by the first guy that hits him. He just goes down. And they also know that they're not going to run the ball. Right. You watch the defense.

They make adjustments when they see McAfrey come in. They're like, okay, little screen. It's the same thing that happens in Philadelphia with all their backs. They know they can't pass protect. So they attack the pocket. It's the same thing. McAfri can't win a matchup. So I think this trade, the Benjamin deal today.

You make McCaffrey or wide receiver? Yes. I think it was a way to clear it up and give Samuels a chance because they have these two young players that draft the first and second. They like both players. They got to give them a chance to play. So who do I pick up in fantasy then? Samuel. I would pick up Samuels, yeah.

He's probably out there. Nobody has them. Yeah, he's the Ohio State kid. I mean, he's basically the better version of Christian McCaffrey, but he doesn't get the play calls right now because Shula loves McCaffrey. If Tate was in charge, they would have drafted a tackle at eight. And they would have drafted Thricne Cullen with like the last pick of the third. I heard him say that on the pot. He's right. They needed a tackle. And then Steph Curry would have called in a favor and then Tate and Seth would run the Panthers. I think he could break more tackles than Christian McCaffrey from what I've seen.

Well, are James White or Christian McCaffrey? Who are you going with? James White. Well, that's same problem. No. Right now, yes. Same problem with both guys. When they're in the game, you know we're probably passing. Exactly. Right.

And it didn't matter in the Super Bowl because we had to pass every now. You had to pass every place. That's why Birkhead, at least when Burkhead's in, it's like, oh, we might run the ball. And the same thing with Dionne Lewis. I mean, he's the best inside runner they have on their team. I mean, so those two players, that's why they got better when White's role went back to what it was last year. So the Benjamin trade, you were never totally happy with Benjamin as a Panther fan.

As the number one. I don't think he's the number one. I think it was like a number two or number two and a half. Yeah, exactly. And then you needed to get a number. Basically, they didn't need to be content with, hey, we have funches and Benjamin. We have our one, too. Because Benjamin is basically a tight end.

I never knew whether to blame Benjamin or Cam, but there was a lot of third and nine. Benjamin's open, but the pass is kind of over his head and he never totally catches it. How do you overthrow Benjamin? He's six foot six. Well, that's the Cam Newton thing. We just say they were never on the same page ever. And I think losing Steve Smith made Benjamin have to become the one and he's not. I think what they'll do with him in.

Buffalo. They'll play them on the outside. They got Jordan Matthews on the inside. But I think it's a good trait for Buffalo because Tyrod Taylor is not the most. They need receivers with long wingspan, the catch radius. And I think Benjamin gives them that. Yeah, well, Lombardy has a good theory on that when you take the number two receiver and make them the number one. What's your theory in that? Well, like most that that was, you had one of those Lombardy theories. Most teams want to double the number one receiver with their, with their corner, with their best corner. I say you take the number one receiver and you put your second corner on them and double them.

and you put your best corner on the number two guy. So that's kind of what it is. So if we're in Cincinnati two years ago, that would be like what they did with AJ Green and Sunoo. Like a lot of teams put their two on green, tried to double them up and then they put their one on. And then put your best player on Sunoo. No, they had another one.

It was like a restaurant movie analogy for when somebody gets bumped up. Maybe it was Frato running the club. Let's be honest. We know it's good fellas for me. Yeah, I was going to say. Exactly. Right out of the Barney movies. Let's see.

And about five of them. That's all there are. I go home and watch one of them tonight and see what I come up with. You know, you can always get an interesting take on it. I mean, I thought we were going to see the heist last night, speaking of movies. We're going to see him next week. I think we are going to see him in Philadelphia. Oh, my God.

He looked so nervous when they showed him. My wallet can't wait. He's like, I don't want to get out there. Did you imagine going into Philly with the heist? Oh, my God. He's so close to LaGuardia, too. I don't, I will parlay them with every other team in the league. The heist in Philly.

Oh, my Lord. I can't wait. That is really bad. So the Dwayne Bras. trade I thought it was interesting because that reminded me of an NBA trade. Yeah, that's a Jeremy. The NFL trades are never like NBA trades where there's just multiple players and picks and different needs happening.

And it was the needs of both teams. It was cool. They're like, we need to sit someone in our secondary to help. Okay, we'll take Lane. That's the one guy in your Legion of Boom that you're willing to get rid of. And then you can have the Wayne Brown. We haven't had him all season anyway. You know, we're competing without him.

Here you go, fair trade. And it helps the Seahawks offensive line. Finally. Great for the Seahawks. Great for the Seahawks. For Houston, is it fair to say they don't think they can. can win the Super Bowl this year. They already won this year because Watson's great.

Their fans are super excited. They're super fun. They're not winning anything major. They're going to sell a lot of Watson jerseys. There's no doubt. But I think there are other theory is, look, the way we're going to play offense is we really don't need a traditional, a traditional left tackle because we're running so much play action that, and this guy's going to get, we're going to move them around the pocket.

So like, let's get, let's get something for them. We know if we have to drop back and pass in this game, Watson's really maybe not the guy we want and the way we're going to run out we're going to run a college offense with all the veer out and we probably get by with a with a lesser left tackle that's my thought i like it i like he was kind of overqualified for the job yeah yeah well they you know they they average 39 points since he became the starter they average 10 when savage i don't understand how they got to that there's somewhat the hopkins fuller combo i mean fuller let's see if he could play six games in a row 11 catches he's got seven touchdowns i mean he's unbelievable he's he's like randy moss light as far as just

being able to burn people. I mean, it's hard to find that. There's a new generation of guys like that, right? Like the sons of Deshaun Jackson basically? Yes. Yes. Because like Aguilar's like that. But there's these deep threat dudes that you don't hear from them unless Paul Richardson's another one. Paul Richardson was playing lights out. He was, he's fantastic. He's unbelievable. I mean, that, I mean, first of all, Hopkins was unbelievable because Hopkins is just he's amazing how he's always covered, but he always comes down with him. Who would you rather have him or Jones? Julio? Yeah. I would probably rather have Hulli. but I know Hopkins would play the whole game and be, you know,

Hopkins is always covered for me, but yet he makes so many great plays. His hands are unbelievable. I saw Jerry Rice talk about Hopkins because he was like, I used to watch Jerry Rice tape all the time because that's like how I learned how to run routes. And Jerry Rice was watching me. He was like,

yeah, you can see this. Like he knows how to put his arm, his elbow into someone to give himself that much more space. Like you saw Steve Smith used to do that all the time. Like these little subtle things. That's what Hopkins does. He's like the guy leads the NBA. You know,

when Barclay led the NBA at 6, six and a half in rebounding. Like that debt should never have. Right. And that's the way Hopkins. He gets the position on the, he's got great balance. Tate, you know that Jerry Rice is by far the best receiver of all time. Yeah. Because he was before your generation.

Yeah, but I've always been like, it's like the Jordan thing. It's like I, you have to be able to appreciate it and go back and watch. Like that's respect. It's like Joe Montana. Like I didn't grow up with Joe Montana, but I've watched enough Joe Montana to be like, he's one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest of all time. It's funny though. I was the room and it's in the book that I'm right.

We were going to pick Eddie Brown. This is a true story. We are going to pick Eddie Brown. And Bill Walsh was on the phone with Paul Brown, Sr. trying to trade up to their pick to get Eddie Brown. And Paul Brown Sr. said, no, we're going to keep the pick. We're going to draft Eddie Brown. They picked Eddie Brown.

And who did they trade to get the JRS pick? Who was dumb enough to trade with them? Take a guest, Trey Frazier. The Cleveland Browns? No. The New England Patriots. The New England Patriots who in the 20th century were the, the Cleveland Browns. We did a Lawrence Welk trade. We traded a one, a two, and a three for their

one and three. Yeah. And my dumb ass team's like, oh, okay. Here's Jerry Rice. And Tate Fraser, we did it before they were even on the clock. We did it like the morning of the draft. And then we only had to wait for the chiefs to make a pick. And the chiefs pick Ethan Horton. And then we got Jerry Rice. Yeah. And the rest is history. The Patriots were freaking horrible for until I was like 32 years old. That's what we did over and over time. And you get Jerry Rice or you get what you have now, which is Tom Brady dynasty. You deserve a little bit. I mean, as a Sixer fan, I've had to live this existence my whole wife of have it.

Should have picked the guy that we didn't pick like this year again. So I think that, you know, sometimes. The funniest thing with the Pats is we got the first pick three times in like 10 years. And each time it was in the draft you didn't want it. It was like Ken Sims, Irving Friar and then Russell Maryland. Yeah. Those were the three times. It was like we never.

That's like the Eric Fisher. And then we finally bled so. And it was like, oh my God. God, we get Bledso. I was going to save the franchise. And they had to make sure you pick that because there was Bledso and Rick Meyer. And we almost took Rick Meyer. I'm amazed we didn't take Rick Meyer.

Exactly. A lot of North Dakota people. A lot of Catholics in Boston won at Rick Meyer. I can tell you that. What were the other trades? The other trade is we got the Marcel Darius trade for the bills of the Jaguars. Chemistry trade. Now that's a true NBA trade.

That's a salary dump. They just dumped them. Morone knows the kid. And, you know, him playing in that front with Calleus Campbell. less of Darius could mean more from him. They could really, with him, and Malik Jackson and Campbell, and those three of those guys inside,

that's a load. I believe you create a strength and then build on a strength. And that's what Jacksonville did. Their strength is their D-line. They added a strength to it, assuming they didn't get the kid to play well. Should Jacksonville have traded their first round pick

for Jimmy Garopla? They should have traded everything they possibly could for Jim. Because the reason they're winning is because every week they go into the game, they remind themselves that Blake Bortles is on the opponent's team. so they know they have to stop Blake Bordels from beating them. He's just like hand it off to Leonard Fortinand as much of them. We're not going to let Blake beat us today.

Blake's wearing their jersey. He's such, you know, we're not going to. I put the stats on my column on Friday. His first seven games and Daufer's last seven games in 2000 are identical. It's amazing, right? Yeah. They're truly going to be the, you got to give them credit. And it's working.

I mean, I didn't think, I don't think in this era of football it could work, but it is working. If Blake Bortles is running, running a QB elite camp on ESP, in 15 years, I will be so happy. You and Steph Curry. You and Steph Curry's camps. And then Blake Bordell's football camp. The thing that's fascinating is, is that Fournette's better than Jamal Lewis. So just take that team and think about it.

You know, and they have all the dynamics. It's ridiculous. It really is. It's too bad McCaffrey wasn't good because that would have been one of the best. I'm not going to rule out McCaffrey, but that really could have been one of the great running back drafts ever. Because Mixing's really good. Mixing's really good.

I mean, look at, look at the, you need to take a shower after you say it, but yeah. Yeah. And then he comes out and he's bad mouth in the offense. Yeah, I mean, he's, yeah, just shut up at that point. He'll reveal his ways. I'm about my man Ray Malaglia. He's upset that they traded. I mean, you've been there three weeks.

You really have an apartment in Miami and now you're worried about the trades. Are you kidding me? Lombini, why is Miami such a shit show? Because I think you have to be. I thought we like Gase. Gase is a good coach, but I think this is a situation where you have to be, fans don't, Miami, Miami, Florida, you're on, there is a lot of stuff going on down there.

And if your locker room isn't perfect and you don't have a lot of good people in your locker room, things can go pretty bad in a hurry. So too much parting. There's a lot of part. It's like New Orleans. New Orleans is you got to be careful the city, not because they're bad people in the city,

just that there's a lot of stuff to do. A lot of stuff to do. We see it in New York and basketball. Right. You got to be able to get lost. You got to have the right locker room. The one thing I think it's fascinating is that they're so worried about their lot.

Like Jarvis Landry, I reported, we reported on GM Street that he was available. Of course, they denied it, issued it. Today they report he's available again, right? And then they go and say they tell the land. Yeah, the Miami Herald came out and said that he was available. Right. He's been available.

It's been available. It's the worst kept secret in the league. Everybody knows that they just try to protect it because their locker room is so sensitive that they have to do it. And I think that's a big issue at Miami. Is it true people trying to trade for Larry Fitzgerald? You know, I don't know how you could do it cap-wise. Like everybody said, I saw him in the Boston Airport.

Yeah, I got a bunch of people that were hitting me up saying that he was in Boston at Logan International and that everyone was speculating that he was the big deal because everyone, you know, thought that the boogeyman was coming, the Patriots, you know, they lost Caropolo, so there was some big deal coming on the back end of that. And all that was smoking. All Arizona was trying to, they were trying to, they would have traded any safety today, safety, honey badger, any of those guys that play safety for him, they would have traded except for Bubba Buddha, the kid that they drafted in the first round and the second round. But that was the only position they were willing to trade. Arizona should be trading everybody. Arizona should have a have a for sale sign in front of their Yeah.

I mean like what are they trying to do? I have no idea. They should tear it down. That's the cousins team, right? If they just waited out and keep the skill position players They lost my homes. They wanted to get my homes.

They tried to get there. Yeah, but Mike, how could they have known they needed a quarterback? I don't know. It's so hard to. Why would they have? Come on. I don't know.

How could Cleveland have known that Deshaal Watson was going to be this good? He only started as a freshman in high school and in college. He only won a national championship. I mean, how would they have known? He's the only guy they let wear number four at Clemson.

How would they, how could you possibly know? Nick Saban comes out and says this is the best player I've played against. Davo Sweetie calls him Michael Jordan. How could you have known? I mean, you can read between the lines with college coach bullshit. When the coach is saying like, this guy's going to change the cult, when they start sounding like a Scientologist talking about the quarterback, Bill, if you want to... That's when you know, it's like, should probably take this guy.

The coach is about to pull his pants down and start masturbating. If you walked on the, if you would have just gone to Clemson, South Carolina and walked around the campus and just walked through their football, he was everything. Yeah. And you would have said, he's going to give us this. Oh, and he won. And he won. And the thing is, Todd Boyd was there right before him, a guy that was everything before. And they completely forgot about him.

They're like, I don't know who he is. And they told you, Todd Boyd. I mean, they're like, great kid. We love him. Yeah, we love to death, but we got the future. Yeah, nobody said that about Kelly Bryant when Deshawn was there. Is it possible that people are just down on this? QB draft?

Yeah, I think that's the other layer to the Garoppolo deal. It seems like that's Josh Cohen. Too much hype early and now it's flipped the other way and everybody's too far down. Donald's not coming out. Lamar Jackson's not coming out. Lamar Jackson's not going to come out. Donald's not going to come out. Rosen will come out.

There's a lot of, you know, I mean, watch him play. You know, the Memphis quarterback. We watch the Oklahoma State Mason Rudolph. I mean, I don't think it's a very good draft. Which weirds me out because that would mean Garopolo's value should have gone up. And I feel like. preaching to the choir thing is like i'm confused yeah but not to bring up jimmy i'm just going to keep bringing them up they couldn't have traded them in february though right no that's the thing this is the

last window this is the last window it was like amazon well wait we're gonna ask lombardi did you ever have a story about five minutes before the trade yeah because we were just we were just talking about how the trades like because what are the odds but the browns had a trade that they screwed up and you had one you had trit rich was in 2013 that was a big that was probably the biggest of 2013 but we had been working on that the i was in los Angeles at the time when we made that deal. We had been working on that deal the day before, and it wasn't until Grigson finally agreed. It's unbelievable. I'm at USC. Grigson finally agrees to the deal. And so now I got to get back to my car, get back to the hotel. I'm trying to

call Trent Richardson, and I'm at SC Scout, and I can't find my car. So I get in the car with the lady, the parking lot security at USC's campus. And I'm on the phone. I'm calling Trent Richardson. And I tell the lady, I said, you know anything about football? I love football. I said, well, here's $20. You can't say a word of this to anybody about what you're going to hear. And I walked her out. I told Trent Richardson, made the trade, and my life went on.

Wow. And I found my call. What did you say when you called him? Was he excited? Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh?

Yeah, we traded you. And now Trent's right here. Trent, come on in. He was real excited because Jim Ursay, who sent a private plane to pick him up. Oh, that's nice. Oh, wow. And then my son was at the 49ers at the time. and they all came into my son's room and they're like,

oh, your dad's an idiot. He just traded Trent Richardson to the 49ers, to the Colts. We're going to get killed this week. You know, Trent Richardson and Trent Richardson had a one-yard touchdown running the game. And then, of course, actually, the rest is history.

I got fired. I'm not bitter at all. I'm not bitter at all. You know, when Lombardi ran the Browns, we actually kept a distance from each other. Yeah. Because you had to. You had a big thing.

But I wrote a Richardson piece, and Lombardi was saying nothing. I knew he was like a pig. and shit that you got a first round pick and then finally you called me and you're like like we're so good that was your he highest that was your version well he was like I got fired for it though

he was like and Gricks had an extension but he was like we got a first round for this guy he runs like an offensive lineman we can hand off to a guard he would go just as mad he was like Eddie Lacey yeah he was Fat Eddie before Fat Eddie he was fat Eddie before Fat Eddie Oh man that's really tough

another one I want to talk about Jay Adjai going to the Eagles your favorite team. Doug Peterson. That seemed like another chemistry thing. Yeah, no doubt. And his knee's bad. And so guy was picked in a fifth round.

Oh, no. So let look at the landscape. Hold that. Just remember everything you're about to say is about to go in every Philadelphia sports club. I'm fine. I'm sure you. They hate us.

No, you bailed on me, Tay Fraser. You bailed on me. You're Steph Curry now. You're fine. Anyway, so that, look, they've shopped the Jada. Every team, the Cowboys had no one. Everybody's worried about the knee. Whether his knee's going to be good enough,

the Eagles will find that. So that's why the asset goes down. That's why the asset went way down. And if you watch him play, there's times where you see him burst. He looks the same. But there's also times he doesn't look, he'd look like the same J. Ajai. And they've got a problem in the locker room. If you're running for the, if you're giving up your first round pick or fourth round pick for a running back, would you rather have J. J. J. J.I. or D.N. Lewis. I'd rather have D.on Lewis. But they wanted a bigger back. But the Patriots that finally came to the conclude, we couldn't trade D.L. Lewis. Really? Yeah. Because. Four running backs. Well, but I think Gillespie was the one.

If somebody wanted him, I'm sure they could have had him. So we're out on, should we send him on the canoe? No, I think he's, there, everybody's going to have a role. Should I start San Hill Marys for him? No, I think everybody's going to, I think the one thing the Patriots will do this week, now that they've had eight games of the, they're going to define the roles of the players much better. Gellously fumbled. We don't forget fumbles in the Patriots.

He had a good start to the year. He had a couple touchdowns and then it was over. Yeah. I miss L Garrett. The thing about Ligartart, he was, The Garrett might be coming back. He might be coming back here. Don't rule it out.

I mean, he, don't rule it out because every time Lagerick goes, he comes back. He's like, he's like Michael Corleone. He comes back. He's like Michael Quirleone. Every time he thinks he's out of the Patriots, he comes roaring back. He's never out of the game. He loves being a patriot the most out of anyone. And he knows it too.

He's got a million five of incentives. He's going to be miserable to live with in Philadelphia. Oh, my God. He's going to be so mean. Yeah, that's true. Maybe we should get LaGarrett's condo and stone him ready. He'd be ready to go. He'll come back.

I'm excited. I hope he comes back. Can I talk about two guys that a lot of people wanted to come back but didn't? And that's Josh Gordon and Megatron, Calvin Johnson. There's a lot of rumors swirling about that. I don't get that. The Megatron thing was idiotic.

I have a conspiracy about that. I think that was all like fodder to get people talking about the NFL trade deadline. Like what could happen? Because those guys are just so likable. But there's no way that Josh Gordon was getting reinstated two hours. I don't know. You don't think it's because the lions were holding a sale on his jersey because they had too many of them in stock.

They wanted to reduce the price of them. Well, maybe when they had that. Barry Sanders night and everyone came back. Everyone was buying Neton jersey. How about Al Michaels and Barry Sanders? Did you see the interview with Big Al? How was that? I think all the producers should have been fired.

They're like, hey, Barry Sandin, we have a chance to get Barry Sanders for the booth. And people are like, oh, great idea. He's so dynamic. Al promoted it before. Hey, we're going to have Barry Sanders. He's the most boring interview of the history of sports. Coming up next. But the thing is, they had like Dre Bly.

But there was a bunch of guys that were in the building. They probably would have been better interviews. Of course, Dre Bly from North Carolina. He loves it. Oh, my God. It could have been good. Yeah, the Josh Gordon thing, my thing is like, if you haven't played a sport for two years, I don't want to read about you. Yeah.

Catch one catch before we talk about you again. So the Browns get reinstated. Who cares? Who's going to take? First of all, any player like that who's, you got to try them out. You got to work them out to see if he's got a juice left in them. That's what I mean. All these people are talking about the Eagles are trying to trade for Calvin Johnson.

It's like, how do you know if he's in shape? How do you know where he is? They're having a parade in Philly because they got a Jai. The mommers are out today for Halloween with a Jai in Philadelphia. They're happy as hell. Was there one trade that didn't happen that you thought? We talked about Joe Staley being an available left tackle out there. I think the Eagles hurt themselves out of Joe Staley.

I think Fletcher Cox hit him broke his oritable or whatever that happened with them. And I think that really created a problem. And they couldn't trade them at that point. So because Doug Peterson was on the radio talking about just at his press conference. So I think that was one of those things that didn't happen. All right. We're going to wrap this thing up. No, no, no.

We're not having something. No, we got to talk about Doug Peterson quickly. Okay. Let's have the conversation. We could have it all we want. Listen, you were a thousand million percent right under Sean Watson. Yeah. The Eagles are seven and one.

You said Doug Peterson was going to be a head coach. would it be a competent head coach I don't know if he's a competent head coach I heard you say that too well I don't know it's hard to you know look Is he related to John Ham But you can you have them

We're giving you a half season mulligan You could be like you know what Doug Peterson is coaching better than I expected I don't know if I think Carson Wentz is playing way better than I expected Now if you want to give Doug Peterson the credit for that Go ahead I think their defense under Jim Schwartz is really well

I love Jim Schwartz job. I'm not ready to go that. I'm not being stubborn about this. I just don't see it with Italians are stubborn. I'm half a time. If you want me to be stubborn for you, I will. I'll go out there for you. No, no, I'm okay. I'm okay with it. Look, are they better than I expected? There's no doubt. But look, last year, McAdoo, how many wins that Macadoo have last year? Ten? That's a good. That's a good It's just, look, can we, can I, I'll admit it at the end of the year when the playoffs are over. That's very fair. I'll, if I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but I'm going to stay where I am right now.

When you watch the tape, let's, let's rank it from one to five, the coaching staffs that just look like they're on it, all the way down, that's a five, two, all the way down to Hugh Jackson is a one. Where has the Eagles coaching performance ranked this year? Well, look, I think off defensively, I think it's a five. I think offense, I think they've been great defensively. And offensively, their protection schemes are not sound. That's why Wynes gets hit so much. Because Wincey, he wasn't great in the Niners game. They get hit a lot.

Yeah. He's taken a beating. And their protection schemes like the Giants protection schemes are not sound protection schemes. And good people can attack them. So, you know, but I. So you think as the season goes along, the teams are going to, and start attacking the egos certain ways that we're not totally saying that. Especially the left side of the line, right?

Without Peters? I mean, that's- The good coordinators will. This week against Denver, they will have a hard time against them. I think the one thing to watch with Peterson, that's bad. I know everyone talks about how good it was the first possession against the Redskins in that game. They had all those holding penalties.

They went back from the 40-yard line to the two-yard line. Just every single time having a holding penalty or something go wrong. And that was the first time I was like, wow, this looks like an undisciplined team. Right. And then it all got righted and all got figured out and they won the game, obviously. But that was the first time. Because for whatever reason, Kirk Cousins, I mean, for whatever reason, my man, Jay Gruden decides on third and one to go empty twice. And he's playing against a really good offense.

Yeah. You know, I mean, I think if you're Greg Mniewski, two times you've played the Eagles, you've played them pretty well, your offense lets you down. So like Jack Del Rio, I think has done a really bad job. I think he's easy. And I think it goes back to last year. Last year, I was like, oh, maybe I was. I was wrong about Jack because I never thought he was a good coach. And then, you know, they go for two in that early in the season and it gave them a little

swagger, they easy schedule. But when they went to that playoff game and Carr got hurt and they had the backup and the team was so unprepared and had no idea how to play for the backup, you could tell they didn't have confidence in them. Right. And I was like, oh, he's a bad coach. And then that's been borne out this year. I don't have an opinion in on Peterson.

I just haven't watched the Eagles enough. But they do seem undisciplined to me. Well, I think that when you look at them, look, they have had, they were third in the National Football League and third or 10 or more. That's a lot of third. I mean, that's bad offense. But Wence has made place. But Wence throws it down the field. He makes plays. He scrambles out. He looks like Young Ben Robertsboro. Wens has been able to overcome it. But if I'm wrong at the end of the year, I'll be happy. But Wence has been, we think Wence is. 100% blue chip or legit. He's the top five. I think he should be the MVP of the league. I think he's covering up a lot of

sense. Can we go through the last games here? Of course. They don't have the third easiest schedule in the league. They're 7-1. Home for Denver. Denver is basically make or break. This is it. Denver has to win this game, but they might have the heist, so they might be 8-1 after this game. By week, at Dallas.

No Zeke, potentially. They might have lucked out with that. Home for Chicago. There's a win. At Seattle, at the Rams. That's a tough gamble. Those are two hard games. Yeah, that's a one-in-one.

That could even be the old two. At the Giants, who might be tanking. I think the one thing you have to look at when you see the Eagles is like next to the team, Wade Phillips, you know, Pete Carroll, the defensive coordinator that understands how to attack what they're doing offensively is critical. So we need to watch for the game when the right team says, here's how you attack the Eagles.

Right. It could be Denver this week. Well, definitely will be Denver. Denver will play man to man on and will stop the running game and they'll pressure him inside and they'll put Von Miller over on their left tackle who won't be able to handle it. But getting this guy on the ground is a lot harder than people think. at Giants Week 15, home for Oakland, home for Dallas last week of the season.

Yeah. I mean, the second half of the schedule is more difficult. Other than a Chicago game, they've got some fairly tough games. No left tackle. No left tackle. Jordan Hicks, nobody talks to, every talking about the, Jordan Hicks injury on defense really hurts them. Because if their defense, their defense wins with their front.

Everybody said, well, they're getting away with these corners. No, they're getting away because the corners don't have to cover. It's like Houston. Houston's secondary was bad last year with Kevin Johnson, Kareem. Those guys have... Kevin Johnson's a great kid, but he can be a lot. They haven't covered anybody, but they have J.J. Watt, Mercellus. They have all these guys rushing.

They don't have to cover for law. Same thing in Philadelphia. Dude, can we do insulted you a little bit? I was really excited for that. Yeah, not for nothing. Do you have anyone that's on the docket this week? I want to insult... Other than Doug Peterson?

I didn't insult him today. I want to insult... Bill, you've watched a lot of football. I do. Okay. The Houston Texans are playing the Seattle Seahawks. Yeah, that was rough. The seven-second...

they run two running plays in only seven seconds. It was like the magic bullet in JFK. Why am I the only one screaming about that? Like I want to insult the clock operator. Why are you running the body? Deshawn Watson. They can't stop them. Well,

just roll them out either side and he's going to find somebody or run the bar. That comes back to Bill O'Brien. That's what makes me so frustrated about him. He's getting all the credit for Deshawn Watson. It's like he still doesn't trust Deshaun Watson in pivotal situations. They blew the Seattle game. And by the way, they blew week one because they started Tom Savage. No doubt.

Against Jacksonville. Those are two wins I should have. But even forgetting all that, like, how can somebody not be complaining about two running plays only taking seven seconds? Like, that to me is remarkable. And nobody's written about it. Nobody said a word about it other than Take Frazier and I. I'm going to insult. I did it for you.

I'm going to insult somebody a little bit. Who? I've been getting emails from the Vikings fans that I'm discounting that this team's pretty good. And why aren't I mentioned? Because we mentioned all the potential Super Bowl teams. And I kind of poo-pooed Minnesota. So this is you talking to the Case Keenom burner account right now. Yeah.

So you're not doing anything in the playoffs with Case Keenom. I just want to, I really like the Vikings fans. I really do. The best man in my wedding, Jeff Gallo, my best friend in the world, Vikings fan. Yeah. I've watched some Vikings losses with him. I know the pain I get it. I'm trying to save you people from getting hurt.

Case Keenom's not winning three playoff games or two, whatever it takes to get to the Super Bowl. it's not happening. He's Case Keenham. Don't let don't get sucked in because you look good against the Browns in London. And he has careful. He has played good for him. I grant you that. I'm a bigger Case Keenum fan than you are. I agree with what you're saying. He's case Keenum. Can he be Rex Grossman? No. No, he's not going to be. Stop. But their offense is not going to be, you know, look, I like Zimmer's job he's done in Minnesota. I like Minnesota to because of the Rogers injury. Look, Detroit, I think, has always been a paper tiger for me. Well, how about Detroit last week. How do they not beat the Steelers? They're inside the 10-yard line twice. I got zero points.

They got no points. But, you know, I like Minnesota because they're good in the kicking game. They're good on defense. And if Case Keenham doesn't stub his toe, I think they're really good. I'm going to insult somebody else a little bit. We're going to go to basketball for a second. I hope I know. I hope he's going where I hope he's going. You can't trade up for Markle Faults unless you know for sure that he's a sure thing. You can if you're not. You can if you're name's Brian Clanchel. I don't think I'm going to go to Philadelphia for like 15 years. The deal leaks out.

They gave him a physical. They meet him for five minutes. And then they just basically rushed to trade through because their fans are excited. How about this? Spend like two days with them. Work them out. Do some stuff. The Southwink spent two days with them and then immediately traded the pick.

Hey, how about this? Watch him play basketball. That was the program. Tate Fraser from the first time I met Tate Frazier has not been a Foltz fan. in the beginning. And I thought, well, he just, you know, he's right. I got sucked in by all the YouTube clips. I was like, this guy's a sure thing.

I'll fully admit. And then the more research I did and the more people I talked to, they were like, this draft's great. You don't, you're, any of the top nine guys could be the best guy. Like, Frank Middle Lincoln might be the best guy in the draft. What does he bring to the table that you say, oh, my God, we got to have them and trade an asset? You know, I think it's, it's, he's a flatline B. Like, and that's not the number one pick.

I mean, like, there's no skill set. He doesn't have the long arm. It doesn't have something that distinguishes himself to make him great. Because the thing was like even if you're just taking Darren Fox. Right. Just do that. Just have just this guy's good. He can play guard.

He gives us flexibility. We'll keep the pick. Like think of their future right now. Right. Like I don't even get the fact that like Fultz is actually good with the ball on his hands. If you said to me, what does he do really well? Like I've watched him. He dribbles.

He penetrates. He's got a nice spin move. Yeah. Nice little fade away. It gets every shot blocked. Don't give you wrong. He gets a lot of shots. He's got every shot he takes and then there he's gotten blocked.

But like you're telling me he was better off the ball. That's why we like, why wouldn't we just take ball? And by the way, yeah, if you're taking somebody that you want off the ball, that's actually what Lonzo is perfect at. Lanzo doesn't like having the ball. Lonzo likes having the ball for two seconds and getting rid of it. I think to be perfect. Or even Josh Jackson.

Could you imagine if they would have a ball? Well, that would have been tough. Could you imagine if they would have had ball and Simmons? Like I think Simmons is great. Well, you have to be out of your mind. with Simmons. I mean, I'm completely delighted with Simmons. I was saying to Chris Ryan today, Simmons is my biggest revelation in this season. And I watched a lot of him in college because I thought the Celtics had a chance for that pick. And he's, he's better as a as at this age than I

thought he was going to be. Like he's he's, he's 29 and eight like every night or it's an accident. If he doesn't get that with no jump shot. He's with no jump shot. With no jumper. And that's only going to grow. He's, I mean, if he learns like an 18 footer, he's going to be unstoppable. He hit one last night. I mean, I was flipping between the football game and the rocket game. Like, the guy's great. Like, I'm really delighted with him. I'm not giving up on faults. I just think like it's just crazy that they trade it up. Fultz is going to be an accessory. I mean, the best thing Calangelo can hope for is to turn Fultz into something better. But that's the problem with the Sixers when what they've done with this whole process. They've

devalued so many guys, whether Nirlens-N-Wel or Jolil Oka-Four and what they're doing with Foltz now, it's like Carter Williams. I think it's smart for them to say that it, that it is a shoulder injury and try to frame it that way so it doesn't come across that he's a bust but they can't do what they did to okifor. Okifor has no value he's just sitting on the bench I mean I feel bad for the guy and he went to do not only is he sitting on the bench Amir Johnson's playing in front of him yeah that's got to be demoralizing it's got it's demoralizing for me to watch I don't understand that at all I don't I don't understand like I understand the process and what the whole angle is but I don't understand why you want to deep you should be trying to pump these people up as much as you can't get a little

post and score I guarantee he plays no defense and all that but look there are plenty of guys that don't play defense. I'll have to say this, though. We were texting two weeks ago and you were talking about the parallels between the Browns and the Sixers. And the NBA, it works because if you hit rock bottom, you have a chance to get Ben Simmons.

Yep. If you hit rock bottom in football, you might not have a chance to get anybody. And on top of it, you have all these young players who are just getting their asses kicked who don't, it's not basketball. It makes them hate the game. Jilil looks like he hates playing basketball.

They really, I'm sure he does. And that guy used to, I mean, you go watching, you go back and watch him at Duke. No, you've never liked Jolie Okof. Him passed out of the post. I know he was ever for his entire career. I'm just saying, you can't devalue your players like that. I just, I don't know why they just like it. I don't know what they think they're going to get for him.

I mean, they just sit them there. The Knicks did it with Carmelow. Yes. Where, and they almost did it with Porzingis where this, there was a moment where the Southwix almost got Porzengis. Oh my God. Which is like, you have to bring that up. We've seen.

He was almost available. We picked Ogifer over Porzingis. Yeah, that, I mean, there was like, who was the guy right in front of O'Kaffer in that draft? Well, DeAngelo. But there was Towns Okafer for a while and then Towns kind of climbed over. Well, everyone thought Okafer was going to be the one because he's the one that took Duke all the way. He was the best one and done. No, that season.

I still believe. I mean, I told you I would trade for him. If I, like, I feel like the Spurs are just going to steal him in some point. And I bet you they do. That's the rumor. Because, I mean, to me, it's ridiculous. I don't feel like Lombardi insulted enough people this week, but that's all right. I know we have to go.

go. You have some, is there anything else that's set out to you? I'm good today. I'm good. This was awesome. I want to insult Marty Herney for trying to ruin the Carolina Panthers. Keep going to. It's unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it. I want to insult Steph Curry. How dare you, how dare you, how dare you better up, Tate Frasier? What if he tries to start like a LeBron James Media Company? Who's his first hire going to be? Tate Frazier. It might be called it. It might be called interrupted. Every time he starts talking, I just start talking over him. That'll be good. All right, Tate Fraser. Wow, that was awesome. Thanks for having me, guys. It was so much.

First guess. It was a beautiful time. All right. This has been another edition of GM Street, part of the Ringer podcast network. We will be back Saturday with Mr. Michael Lombardi's picks. Four for five. Mike Lombardi's Saturday, 15-minute picks are... Mr. Fourfiss.

Absolutely, 100% essential. I'm actually... I don't even bet, but I'm like going to... You don't even think of it like a gambor. You just look at the matchup and you go, wow, that team's going to beat this team. Yeah. But people should listen to that. Just the football guy making football picks.

My best story of that, when I was at NFL Network, this guy was living in Connecticut. it. And every week on Wednesday on the show, the producer would always make me pick an upset special of the week. Yeah. And so I got on a role that year. And I ended up being like, I was like 13 and 1. At last week of the season, I had to pick between Pittsburgh and Cleveland. I basically, the guy was betting on me every week. He bought his wife's engagement ring from betting on the thing. Was his name Haralabom? No. I love it. Anyway, I got a good thing going. I'm happy. I like your picks. That's a good podcast. You guys are doing a great job. I'm really proud of you. Thanks, Bill. Boom.

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