The Ringer NFL Show - ‘GM Street’ — Blue Chips: Coach and Coordinator Position Rankings (Ep. 132)

Episode Date: August 31, 2017

The Ringer's Mike Lombardi and Tate Frazier conclude Lombardi's blue-chip countdown on the sidelines by discussing Al Davis's view of coaching (02:00), the top offensive generals in the NFL (08:00), the best defensive play callers (27:30), and the elite special-teams coaches (39:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Good news, NFL fans. Direct TV has expanded NFL Sunday ticket this season. If you live in an apartment or are an enrolled college student, now you can get NFL Sunday ticket without a satellite to see if you are eligible. Go online right now to NFL sundayticket.tv and use promo code Ringer, R-N-G-R-N-G-R-N-G-R-E-R-N-Teckel to save 15%. GM Street, I am Tate Frazier, and sitting across from me, Mr. Mike Lombardi, how you doing? I am great, great.

Another tape and show here. It's pretty good. In the studio? Yeah, we've got the studio lights around us. I know it's not going to be on video, but it's pretty nice. It's nice to do it. I feel like a little bit like we're in the Larry King atmosphere. You're too young for Larry King? Oh, of course. I remember Larry King. Well, if you don't remember him, you can always just go over to that Dayton Al's Deli and see him every day in there if you want.

Oh, really? He's around? Every day eating breakfast in there. Not that I go there, but I mean, I've seen him every time I've been there. Yeah, I saw Larry King one time in Los Angeles, and my uncle was out here at the time when it happened and he freaked out. It was like the biggest celebrity he'd ever seen. Larry King, since this is going to be a little bit of an Al Davis story, Larry King and Al Davis were best friends, right? Wow, I did not know that. They go back to Brooklyn together, best friends.

And Larry King's wife had a brother who was a football player at BYU. Okay. So there's a big gap. And we had to carry that player on our practice squad. Can we not say his name? I'm not going to say. And I don't want to, but he wasn't really an NFL quality player. But the power of Larry and Al together, we carried him for two years.

on practice. Drove Gruden crazy. Drove him absolutely insane. He was a scout team quarterback. And he wasn't even very good at that. But it just shows you how close to relationships are. You got to know somebody. It's like Hollywood.

You got to know somebody getting into business. And it's a dream job to be a backup quarterback. Or like a scout team quarterback. You walk around town. You tell everybody, hey, I'm, you know. And you're like an actor. You're like, I'm playing Cam Newton. That's very cool.

And speaking about Davis, we're going to jump in this week. We're going to do blue chip coaches. This has been something that's promised by you, Lombardi. This is what all the people have been waiting for. we just want to go and give a little background to how this whole process came about, and it all started with your man, Al Davis. Right. So, you know, and I'm working for the Raiders, and Al has historically loved players.

And you don't have to be asked 1,000 people around the NFL. Al was never really didn't want to pay a lot of coaches. He thought coaching was he could handle a lot of it. Yeah. And so. Managing of egos. Right. And so what happened to Al is I think you have to really kind of understand.

It's a little bit like since we're in Hollywood, we can explain it. Paramount's down the street. So there was a period in Hollywood where Robert Evans, you ever see that Robert Evans character? He's an entourage. They based that studio producer on Robert Evans' character. Kind of an eccentric guy lives in this big house. Okay. When he ran Paramount, he thought, since he couldn't afford actors, he thought the best thing he could do was buy books and then turn books into movies, which he did. He bought Love Story. He bought The Godfather. And all of a sudden, he took Paramount and made it much better. The point of the story, is he bought writers and let the actors go. When Al was first doing his thing in the NFL, the players

mattered the most. Coaches didn't. It was one scheme. It was, you know, man to man. It was two backs to the backfield. The quarterback called the plays at the line of scrimmage, the defense of the the mic linebacker called the defenses. The game was really simple. But when video came into play and we went from 16 millimeter tape to video, everything started to change. Game became very more complicated. Yeah. Okay. And Al wasn't going to go into that complication.

He wanted a game to be as simple as it possibly could. He's so, he was unlike Bob Evans, he wasn't going to go down that road. He wasn't going to go there. So my theory was that I thought if you, if you looked at the coaching pool in the NFL, there was teams that had similar talent, but for some reason they were winning all the time. So I went over to Cal and I spent the day with this Cal professor in statistics. And he said, look, if you take the top five coaches of the positions that you think

matter. Okay, head coach, offensive coordinator, defense coordinator, special teams, O-line and D-line. You take those positions and you rank the coaches. You can't rank them one to 32. You rank them in clusters of five or six and then give a point system. So you add up your point totals for your coaches. So for example, when I was at the Raiders, we had maybe perhaps one time we didn't have a very good head coach, say his staff point total was 100. Was it Lane Kiffin? But he could have been, okay, it could have been him. Sorry, Lane.

It could have been Art Shell. It could have been, all right. Anyway, so I say our point total was 100. All right, and then we're getting ready to go play New England in a game. And New England's point total for their staff is 30. Yep. The difference between the player pool couldn't make up the 70 points of difference. Do you follow me now?

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so the gap between the coaches was so wide that the talent couldn't make up for it. When Al was watching players and he was doing his thing in the 60s and the 70s and those great Raider teams, there wasn't that differentiation. Everybody was running basic schemes. Everybody was doing. So the coaching pool didn't really matter. Yeah, you might have Vince Lombardi, you might have Tom Landry, you might have John Madden.

But the coaching pool really didn't separate himself like it did now. And that's how I came up with the project. So basically John Madden made all of his money off these guys. He didn't do much. He just sat around. Well, you know, the game with, no. I'm kidding. Matt and family.

Please don't take me out. I think what, you know, John knew football. He was a linebacker coach. He motivated the team. He did his role for the time, and he did it really well. I'm not minimizing anything that the coaches did back there, because obviously we named the Lombardi trophy after Vince Lombardi. But when you break the game down today to what it was a year's ago, way more complicated,

way more complicated. Just like when Johnny and I just came to line of scrimmage back in the 60s, he saw one coverage. Okay, when... He pointed out the mic and knew what he was going to do. He didn't have to point out the mic. The protection didn't matter, okay? The offensive line

they couldn't extend their arms out. They couldn't ever do this. So, you know, do you realize Bart Star got sacked like nine times in the ice bowl? You're way too young for this. So he's sack. Could you imagine what talk radio would have done to Vince Lombardi after Bart Starr got sacked nine times in the ice bowl? Oh, my God.

Lombardi doesn't know protections. He can't protect poor Bart Starr. The offensive line, they had Fires Greg who's in the Hall of Fame. They had Jerry Kramer who potentially could be in the Hall of Fame. And they got sacked nine times because the rules didn't let you. Yeah. And the other thing, too, is the age of video. The video changed the game because now we could study the tape.

When I first started in the league, and I was your age tape, practice ended at the 49ers. And Walt Poreup, the video director, would get out of the tower. He would get in his car and he would drive from Redwood City to Berkeley, California. And he would process that tape. And then little Roy Gilbert, who's been on the cover of Sports Illustrated a couple times carrying Bill Walshoff. Nobody knows who Roy is, right? Roy would drive to Berkeley, pick up the tape and bring it back.

Now, you know, this whole process, we didn't get the tape back until 11 o'clock at night. So the coaches went home and they came in the morning and started watching. So the chances of you developing players in talent or schemes, really hard to do during the season and even in the off season. And speaking of the schematics, we're going to talk about. Let's go. Yeah. So I set that up, all right? That was a long set up.

No, no, I loved it. It got me all locked in now. I feel like I want to talk about a history lesson. Yeah, it was good. I learned a lot. I hope the listeners have learned a lot. And if you're ready for this Lombardi, running me into. I am really ready for it.

We're going to some of these head coaches that really matter, right? Well, I think they do matter. I think they matter tremendously. And I think this. I think what we've seen in the NFL is we've seen too many coaches that are just in charge of the assistance and they're not truly head coach. And to be a head coach, to be a blue chip head coach, you've got to run the team. Absolutely. And a man that runs his team really well.

And it's probably, I'm going to, spoiler alert, I'm probably going to say he's at the top of your list. A man by the name of Bill Belichick. Without a doubt. I mean, Bill with the pageers since 2000. Nobody's going to argue about it. that. I'm not going to get any negative teets. How could you have a little bit of Belichick on the list? We just didn't know if the cheating, you know, you never know. Oh, we'll stop. Will you stop?

We stop. Such a millennial. I love it. Anyway, here's the, to me, the top five coaches are Belichick, Pete Carroll, yep, Andy Reed, Mike McCarthy, and Mike Tomlin. I think the unsung hero here is really Mike McCarthy. And you really break down these Packer teams. And I give McCarthy crap about his offense, not being very scheme-oriented, not being very explosive in terms of creativity. But I think McCarthy does a great job in this sense. First of all, of all the guys who have been to Super Bowl, he has more wins than any of them. He has 114 wins. All right.

The next guy is Mike Tomlin at 103. McCarthy does a great job. He keeps his mouth shut. He's really loyal to the Packer program. He never bitches about players not playing or he doesn't have depth. I mean, look, he puts Thai Montgomery in the backfield. Next thing you know, he's developed the running back. Yep.

So I think he doesn't get. enough credit. Do I think he's a great strategist on game day? Perhaps not, but I think he's truly a great head coach and that's why I have him as a blue chip. And I think a lot of the time with McCarthy, right, he gets the well, he had far than he had Rogers. Right. There are great coaches that had Joe Montana

that didn't make eight straight playoffs. Right. I mean, he goes to playoffs every year. The guy's got 114 wins. He's won a Super Bowl. I mean, he went into Dallas. He beat Dallas last year. You got to give him, look, you got to give him something for that. You know, people are giving me crap about the video about Jason Garrett using Bruce Springsteen. Hey, at

Jason Garrett has to prove he can beat somebody. I mean, at some point he's going to have to prove he can win a couple games where he shows that he's the head coach, not just standing there clapping. Yeah, and then we're talking about another guy that's in the top five that a lot of people probably will get ruffled a little bit, and that's Andy Reid. Yeah. He's a guy that we all don't know about his time management. He gets made fun of all the time.

But Andy Reid's 173 wins. I mean, the guy's over 600 winning percentage in his career. I mean, he's almost like the new Marty Schadenheimer in a certain sense where he is a guy that wins, but in the playoffs, it just seems that it. It doesn't work out for whatever reason. You know, and I mean, he does a tremendous job coaching the team. His teams are always ready to play. They get better as the season goes on.

I think you could see that with his Kansas City teams. I think he's creative offensively. He's taking bad quarterbacks like Alex Smith. He's made him into good players. I think, you know, he's got 173 wins. I think once Andy, he's been to a Super Bowl, he hasn't won a Super Bowl, but he's been to a lot of conference championship games. He's, to me, a blue, if there ever it was a blue chip coach,

he's truly a head coach. He runs his team, his team respects them. you can't not really think he I mean look I make fun of him I think he should outsource his game management to India I think there's no doubt about that he should have somebody call that you know do that 1 800 number thing but I think Andy reads a hell of a coach and let's talk about some of the coaches that have won Super Bowes that aren't quite in that class and one of those guys is John Harbaugh just got an extension yep and I think it's important for fans to know the extension for John Harbaal so every fan understands us most coaching contracts now Kyle Shanahan this year was an exception but the way the NFL is does their coaching contracts because you really don't have much leverage. Perhaps Belichick and Pete Carrolls isn't like this. But for the most part, there's offset language in the contract. So if they get rid of you, if they fire you

and you go to say you have a five-year contract with the Baltimore Ravens and you get fired and you have four years left on the deal and you go take the job at Notre Dame, okay? Then whatever Notre Dame pays you is offset from your Baltimore salary. That's called offset language. So John got the extension for 2019. I think the key component here is does he have offset language

in it? Because if he does, I don't think really the owner of the Ravens did anything major because John Harbaal's going to work. I mean, John Harbaugh, if he lost his job in Baltimore, he'd replace it within an hour. Yep. So it's really, to me, it's kind of a PR move, not really a true extension. Yeah, and Ozzy Newsom

knows that I think it's more one of the, just to send the signal that Harbaal is still our guys. I think he wanted to give him clout in front of the team. Look, the guy's got 100 and, what's he got, he's got 85 wins. He's won a Super Bowl. I think the last three years of 31 and 33. I think that's the concern. But he's close to making the list. I think if John could ever get his offense right, if he had the right coordinator offensively, I think he would be a blue chip coach. Another guy that's close, he took a team in his sophomore

season to the Super Bowl. A lot of people give him credit for that Seahawks defense, Dan Quinn. Is he one of those guys that has snuck up in that red chip group? Or is he, or is it a wait and see approach? I think there's a bunch of guys that are more wait and see. I think, you know, Sean Payton is a guy that I thought would have easily put him in a blue chip category. But I think he, the couple years defensively, he hasn't been able to get it straight. I think Dan Quinn's got to prove, and I think he could prove it very easily, but can he overcome the offset the loss of Kyle Shanahan? I think this is going to be a true test for Atlanta.

I don't think people really understand the difference between Kyle Shanahan and Steve Sarkisian. I know PR-wise that Sark is more media-friendly and more popular than Kyle Shanahan was, but in terms of football coaching and strategist, I don't think that's a close one. I really don't. And talking about long-tenured head coaches in the NFL, we don't see a lot of guys like Belichick that have been the entire 21st century he's been with the New England Patriots, which is crazy to say.

But Marvin Lewis has been with the Cincinnati Bengals, since 2003. It feels like every off season, a lot of people rumble around. Are we going to let this guy go? Or is he going to keep riding this thing out with the Bengals? Is he one of those guys that he's just been there so long that he gets up in a different class of coaches? I know, I think if Marvin could win a playoff game, he's got 118 wins. And I think what Marvin doesn't get enough credit for it. Right now, I was just telling this to a coach I just talked to on the phone before we started this.

The Bengals, when I first started in the league, they were probably the most dysfunctional franchise in football because of how they ran it old school, right? They were like an old school franchise, the mom and pop operation. And today, as I was telling this coach, they're normal now. There's a lot more abnormal teams. And I think that's really, when you look at them, we had a saying, and Bill Walsh used to tell me this all the time, you have to be one of the eight. Really, there's only eight teams competing for a Super Bowl. The Patriots, Seattle, Kansas City, the Giants, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Minnesota. Maybe Arizona would sneak in there.

Those are the eight or nine teams. But to me, the most important thing is to compete every year. And when you look at it, I think the Bengals have come as a normal team. I know that sounds strange to people, but they're really normal because they don't have to fight the rookie pool. They used to have guys hold out all the time, right? They don't have to fight that anymore. And they have a reputation for being cheap and they don't pay all the way to the

minimum, but they have a really good team. And you start looking at those guys that have hung around that Bingles team. They have a pillar with AJ Green. They had Whitworth there. They had all these guys that just seemed to keep everything on the same path, regardless of if it's Hugh Jackson or whatever coordinator is coming in. You're right. No, nothing bothers him because I think Mike Brown is a pillar. When he wants to trade a player, he trades a player, when he doesn't want to sign him. He doesn't let outside forces influence him, unlike the owner of North of there and Jimmy Haslam, who's always letting outside forces influence him. I just want to do a little thought experiment. So Sean Payton

and Mike McCarthy both take over 2006. If you look at both them and you ask one a man on the street, everyone I feel like would say Sean Payton is the better coach. But looking at this, you know, we have McCarthy as a blue chip guy, Sean Payton as a red chip guy. That difference between those guys, I mean, why is the

perception so different than the reality? Why does McCarthy not get as much credit? Is it that quarterback? Yeah, because he's got the quarterback. But I mean, Sean's had Drew Brees, but McCarthy's teams are tough. I think where Sean has lost a little bit is a little bit of the toughness. They haven't been able to fix their defense since, really since the bounty gate and the toughness of the team. And I think this year they're going to be much improved.

And I think in terms of you wanted a play caller, which kind of segues into this, some of these teams like New Orleans, the offensive coordinator is really Sean Payton. I mean, he runs the direction of the team. Pete Carmichael is not going to be calling all those shots every game. But to me, when you look at the Saints, so you have really, you have a redhead coach, but you have a blue offensive coordinator because even though Carmichael is setting it up, Sean Peyton's running it. I got you.

And just one more guy on that list that could be a blue chip coach, Mike Zimmer, who was a former defensive coordinator with the Bengals, done great stuff with the Vikings. Could he be one of those guys? I think he has a year. I mean, we saw the Vikings last year start out so hot, and then they kind of, you know, pethered off the team. He's 26 and 21 right now, but I think if you look at him,

I think he's got a chance to improve and move up. And I think certainly he would be when we talk about defense coordinators. His defense is going to be in the top five there. Absolutely. And let's pivot to talking about the office. offensive coordinators and some of those top guys. Obviously, everyone remembers Kyle Shanahan from last year. He just kept gunning in the Super Bowl. But people forget how amazing of a season he had with the Falcons. Just looking at the offensive coordinator position, who are your guys

there? I think this. I think there's a couple more head coaches. But I think when you break it down, Kyle Shanahan to me is close to being the best offense coordinator football. I think he does things that are very hard to defend. I think he's creative and talented. I think Josh McDaniels is really creative and talented. Whether he becomes a head coach or not, that's up to him. Scott Lanham at the Dallas Cowboys. I think he does a really good job. He's creative. I think they've really run the right scheme. I think Adam Gase is another up-and-coming coach.

I think Adam Gase is a coordinator on this list really would be up-and-coming because he does a really good job of scheming things. And then I put Sean Peyton and Andy Reid kind of like they're the head, the coordinators of their team. They're not listed as titles, but they really run their offense. And they call their place. One of the guys that you did mention that I wanted to say that was a head coach last year, but now it's back to be a coordinator.

It's Mike McCoy. We remember McCoy with the Super Bowl winning team with the Broncos, goes to the Chargers, comes back to the Chargers, has a much larger task without Peyton Manning being there. But I feel like he's one of those guys that could class up in that blue chip category. I think Mike is a good coach. I think he's in the right role. I think leadership and being demanding and I think being the head of being the head coach, not just in charge of the assistance. I think that's a challenge for Mike. I think he's in the right role.

I think this will help him. It's going to be a challenge in Denver with Trevor Simeon. And he's going to have to kind of find an offense that's going to super. suit what they can do with their skill set. I think Denver is offensively going to be very challenged. Talking just about the west side of the country in general, what about Daryl Beville with the Seahawks? I mean, he kind of had to figure out a scheme,

not to say that Russell Wilson needs, you know, to have a scheme built for him or anything. He's a great quarterback on his own right, but being able to figure out a way to maximize Russell Wilson's skills. Yeah, no, I think, you know, and he's a West Coast guy. He runs a very basic West Coast thing. I think he gets a lot of help from Tom Cable as the offensive line coach who I have cable in this kind of

Coach, 8-8-500. You know, look, can you get 800 at the Raiders? I know. That was a great season. A lot of people underrate Tom Cable. Every time I see him on the sideline, I'm very happy for him. You go eight and eight at the Raiders. You've achieved something without, without, down your throat.

Nobody really understands what that like. You know, like all these people that, you know, make funny you on Twitter or try to try to antagonize you. You know, you answer the phone call from Mount Davis every morning. That's like sets the bar. Like everything else to that. It's like easy, right? So, anyway, I think that Bevel does a good job. I think Bevels needs to come back a little bit to what they were.

We talked about this before on the podcast. They need to be an outside zone team. That fits in a cable. I think he'll be that this year. I think Russell will have his best season. I'm on board the Russell Wilson trade and the comeback train. Just one more name. I just have to put it out there.

Best name in football. Jim Bob Cooter, the Detroit Lions offensive coordinator. He made Matt Stafford, the richest man in football. Matt Stafford, to me, he's got a great PR machine because really, Bill Simmons and I talked about this. I mean, if you look at Matt Stafford's numbers to Andy Dalton numbers, they're really Andy Dalton, and people say, well, you can't compare win-loss records for quarterbacks.

It's really not a way to do it. Stop. Yeah, it is. Like, why are they the highest paid players on the team? If you put Brett Farr in his prime on some bad team, you don't think that bad team would win? They would win, right? So this whole notion that you can't put the quarterback's record up there,

it blows me away. That's why they're paid the most. They make the team better. They make everybody else better. Peyton Manning's putting people in the Hall of Fame, okay? Looking at you, Jeff, Saturday. He's putting people in the Hall of Fame, right? Absolutely.

And so, like, that's because he's a great quarterback. So don't tell me don't put their one loss. Oh, okay? If you do that, then Bill Pollyan was one and 15 without him. Okay? So don't tell me that the quarterback's one loss record doesn't matter. And let's talk about just a couple other new guys. Rick Denison goes to the bills.

I like Denison is a really good line coach. I think he's a really good. I think he's in the top five line coaches in the league. can run the football effectively. It's going to be interesting how they throw the football in Buffalo because Denison's an offensive line. He's a linebacker by trade,

who became an offensive line coach. He's an outside zone run guy. I think he's a really good coach. I don't know how he's going to call the game. And the peak period of Denison for people that don't know, he was with the Texans with Aaron Foster and some of those great years, like 2010, 2012, that whole area.

Who was the quarterback coach at that time? Kyle Shanahan. Yep. And that was a great time. I'm sorry to bring that up for all those Houston fans out there. And speaking of Houston, We want to say that we are thinking about Houston this. I've got to say this.

I've never seen more, I've never seen devastation like I've seen in Houston. It's remarkable. I mean, they had a picture of the freeway, and I thought it was the Atlantic Ocean. I mean, our hearts go out to them and. And JJ Watt, raising the goal for $10 million. Look, the best thing had happened was once Houston found out that they could get home from Dallas, they were going to go home and come back and just to be with their families. And I think the league did the smart thing, letting them, why play this meaningless game?

That was great. It was great. Thank you, Houston. Any more offensive coordinators that are on your mind right now that are in this group? Like I think Scott Lanahan was maybe not a great head coach, but I think he's a great coordinator. I think sometimes these guys get in the right jobs and they really shine. All right, sticking on the offensive side of the football. Let's go to the big boys up front.

Let's talk about the offensive line. What are some of the coaches? I have to say off the top, Tony Sparano, still my favorite offensive line coach. Yeah, where's the shades all the time. He's amazing. He's got an eye problem. I think Tony's a good coach. He's in a red in my group.

these guys here, to me, should be the highest-paid coaches in football. They coach five players, right? So all five players are the most important players. And if they can take a young player, say they take a fourth or fifth or sixth round pick and turn them into a four-year start. Like, okay, Dante Scarnacki, Blue Chip offensive line coach, takes Shaq Mason a fourth round pick from Georgia Tech and turns them into a really good starter.

Yep. Okay? That's an unbelievable contract for the Patriots to have for four years. like the value of these coaches, these O-Line coaches, should be in the $2 to $3 million a year range. They're really that good. The best one to me is Bill Callahan. I saw him as a head coach.

I think he was a really good coach. I think he did a great job as the Raider head coach. He got a raw deal towards in the second season. But I think he's really what makes the Redskins offense go. Everybody wants to talk about Sean McBay and all the things he did to me. Without Bill Callahan there, the Redskins don't operate. And when you watch that Redskins team, I mean, Kirk Cous, like, you can see. see it. They're very similar.

When you watch Cowboys, it's almost the same thing. It just looks like a different class of blocking. It just looks a lot cleaner. They play with great pad level. He gets a lot out of his players. He knows how to run the football. I think he's really good. I think the other guy who's outstanding. And he's really, this has been the most critical hire that the Pittsburgh Steelers

have had in a few years is Mike Munchek. Loses his job as a Tennessee head coach. Great offensive linemen for the Titans before. Great offensive linemen for the Oilers, goes back to the Oilers in Houston. But this guy here has turned the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the Pittsburgh offensive line into really a bunch of scrap parts into a really good offensive line. I think he's one of the coaches of the year.

Chris Forrester at Miami. So here's Miami. You want to why Miami's good on offense? They got a really good head coach, a young head coach who's maybe not Blue Chip. They got a really good coordinator. And then they got a really good line coach. Chris Forrester, that's why they run the football. So effectively, oh, by the way, he was in Washington with the Shattahans when they could run

the football. I think he's really good. I think Russ Grims, kind of a crusty old coach at Tennessee. he's going to have to prove he's a blue chip coach and I think we talked about Cables my fifth guy I think he's going to have to prove it who do you have? I have Mike Solari with the Giants

I like Mike. Mike goes back a long way I think Mike's got his hands full this year I think Mike is not in this blue chip category I think Mike's going to have to prove it especially coaching Eric Flowers and Bobby Hart and seeing if he can get something out of both those guys

It's always tough to coach number one pick I mean just It's tough to coach Eric Flowers Yeah I don't want to put that all in all the number one picks out there. Another guy, Frank Pollock, just for the Cowboys, just to give him the credit. I think Pollock's a really a rising star.

I think he's a red player, and I think that's another reason why Dallas is good, because they have a really good coordinator and a really good line coach. And they have really good talent in their offense line. But, you know, it's one thing to have talent. But these line coaches develop the talent. You know, it's one thing to get a really good player. It's nothing to develop them. And I think that's where it really matters.

You know, grim I don't have in this category. I have cable. But, you know, when you Chance Warmac didn't really develop. You know, the guy that I think the bearer, line coach. Jim Washburn's son, Jeremiah Washburn, I think he's really one of the really good young line coach. He lost his job in Detroit, got

fired. Now he's in Chicago. I think he's a rising star in the league, and I think he'll make the Bears' offensive line much better this year. Good for you, Mitchell Trubisky. One of the name I had on there was Jeff Stalland, too, with the Eagles. I think he does a good job. It's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. Now, I didn't mention Doug Peterson as the top, well, that's a whole

other story. Watch the video. Did you see the video? Did you even know who Roy Rubin is? No. Okay, you need to watch the video. I'll watch the video. I'll get locked in. Should we switch to the other side of the ball? Or should we, is there any lasting thoughts for the,

just hiring an offensive coordinator and offensive line coach? Is there something that you're looking for from those guys? I mean, like a Munchek, a former offensive lineman. I think, you know, when I was in, before I got fired in Cleveland, we were talking about hiring Mike Munchek as the offensive

line coach. If we would have been able to do that, we didn't have a head coach at the time, talk to Mike a lot. I think that's one of the most important hires you're going to make. I think he can turn your team around. When I was in Cleveland with Belichick, we had a line coach that we inherit

that Bill inherited from the prior staff. And, you know, it was an older kind of coach, good man, just wasn't what he wanted. When we brought Kirk Forenson to be the line coach, I became a better line scout, and the team became better. I think these guys, you don't realize the development that these guys give you. Now, sometimes they kind of go off on the deep end where they try to develop these guys that have no chance of playing, and you've got to reel them back in. But for the most part, they make the biggest difference.

The coordinator of the offensive and the defense line, huge, huge to whether you're going to be successful or not. Mike Munchek and Joe Thomas would have been something serious. It would have been good. That would have been like to me, that's one of those times where no matter who your head coaches, if you could hire Mike Munchek, you just hire. Absolutely. Well, that's a good life lesson in Mike Munchek now as a job and it seems like people are listening to you, Lombardi.

Before we get to the defensive side of the football, I want to take a quick break to let you know about NFL game pass. Every throw, every catch, every two-minute drill, every fourth and inches. If it's NFL football and it happened, NFL Game Pass has got it. My favorite game of the last season I've been telling you guys does for the past few weeks was when the Panthers played the Falcons in week three last year. I can replay the game from every angle with NFL Game Pass, even though I probably did not want to. But whatever your favorite game is, NFL Game Pass has got it.

Better yet, they've got you covered for this year's action too. All the live out-of-market preseason games got it. Full game replays? Yeah. Condense games with all the action packed into 45 minutes? Absolutely. exclusive coaches film from the all 22 that's for sure like I said if it's NFL football and it happened NFL game pass has got it best of all you can kick off the 2017 NFL season with a free NFL game pass trial sign up now at NFL dot com slash the ringer that's NFL dot com slash the ringer back to the podcast let's flip to the other side of the ball and let's talk about the defense and the defensive coordinators that are in your blue chip group who are those guys guys. Well, I think Wade definitely is. And I think Wade

Phillips has done a great job of reinventing himself a little bit. There was a time where Wade was a little bit generic and a little bland. And I think over, when we played him in six... With the Dallas Cowboys. With the Dallas Cowboys. I mean, Wade's not a head coach. He's a really good coordinator. And I think the players play really hard for him. And I think he's done a really good job of

matching up and making the offense play left-handed. I can remember a time when Jim Schaffner became the head coach of the Cleveland Browns right before Belichick. He was the interim coach. And he would always say about Bill Belichick, he makes you play left-handed. And I think good defensive coordinators make you play

left-handed. And Wade is one of those kind of guys. He makes you play left-day. He takes away what you want to do, what your offense is, and then he makes you execute it in a different way. And he's done it with more diversity this year, with more scheme. In the last couple years, he's done it with more creativity, and his

players respond. And if people want to reference for that, just watch the Super Bowl 50 with Cam Newton, where they took away the run game with Jonathan Stewart early on, and they were like, Cam, it's in your hands. Derek Wolf and Vaugh Miller basically decided it's in his hands. And they took it away by scheme and their ability to run blitz formations. They did it and not just by lining up player versus player. And they did it against us. Look, when we played them in 16 when I was at the Patriots, we lined up in

a spread formation and he refused to get anything out here. He would go, whether we were in two tight ends or three receivers, he stayed in his nickel because he dared us to run the ball and he knew we couldn't because he had ways to stop the run out of our base offense against his nickel. To me, I might. My hats off to them. And my next guy is Romeo Cronnell. You talk about one of the best third down call play callers in football. The other thing, too, tape, these defensive coordinators, they get no recognition for being a great play caller.

Like all we talk about all the time is, oh, the offense coordinator, what a great play call. What a great play call. Well, at some point, the defense coordinator calls plays too, right? Yeah. Like, Rack is a really good third. That's why they're so good on third down with the red zone, third down, third down past defense. Because he's a good play caller. Wade Phillips is a good play caller.

Those guys make the right call at the right time. And when the quarterback throws the ball out of bounds, they just say, oh, the punt team comes on the field, right? That's a huge great play call by the defense. It doesn't get enough recognition. Third guy, I think Mike Smith, he's very bland, very basic, but they play really good. The name Mike Smith is perfect for the man, Mike Smith. Yeah, they're bland, they're basic, but he plays really good. I think their defense is the best third down defense in football last year.

They're fast, they fly to the ball. They play smart and they play fast because they don't have much to think about. He's great on hard knocks, too, for people that haven't been watching. Again, I haven't watched, but I'm sure he is. It may not be a head coach, but I think he's a really good good. Rob Marnelly's another guy. Very simple scheme, players play hard for him. I think he's really good.

And then my fifth guy is Steve Spagnola. I think Steve Spagnola, even though two years ago I would have never had Steve on the list, I thought he was way too over the top with a scheme. But in the last two years, with the Giants improved the personnel, I think he's improved his game too. One guy that you didn't have on your list said, I just want to ask you about Vic Fangio with the Bears. He kind of inherited a weird group,

actually the 49ers with Kyle Shanahan tried to bring him back to San Francisco. And he blocked it to stay with Chicago. He's got a new kind of defense. He really likes Leonard Floyd. I think Fangio is one of those guys that could class up into that group. I think he, Matt Patricia, I think Bob Sutton of Kansas City. I think all those guys belong in the next category. And of course, you know, when you're talking about like, here's Mike Zimmer.

Mike Zimmer's in this category, too. Minnesota would be in the top five of defense coordinators on the grading system because Zimmer's really helping call the defense as well. So when you have that combination, he's high ranked up there too. But I think Fangio's a really good coach. I think Fangio would have been a really good, they wanted to keep him in San Francisco before he left to go to Chicago, and they couldn't do it.

And I think that became a problem. Absolutely. And just talking about some of these old defensive coordinators, like the staple names, and when someone brings up a defensive coordinator, they go, oh, you mean Dom Capers, you mean Dick Lebo. Those guys are still around. I mean, have they just kind of fallen by the way?

a little bit and kind of falling off? I think capers and LeBoe are still really good coaches. I think they're in the next category. I think that LeBoe's scheme, people have caught onto it a little bit. I think it's become a little bit more difficult. I would never underestimate Dick Lebeau. I think he's a really good coach, but I think his schemes tend to be a little bit outdated. He's trying to cover up some, you know, the Curly and the Boat Theory, you know,

where Curley sees a hole in the boat, so he makes another hole in the boat to let the water from the first hole out. That's a little bit about Pittsburgh. I try to kind of blend it together. Mike Tomlin, I didn't put him on this list as a top five, even though I have him as a blue chip head coach, but defensively I think they got a lot to prove yet. And I think that Keith Butler is doing a better job, but they have a lot

to prove defensively yet. And that Titans team with LeBoe, I mean, he gets those guys all together kind of a buy-in last year. It was a better defense. Did well against the run. Could he, I mean, could there be some sort of resurgence? I'm not saying that he... Well, they're always going to do good against the run because they're going to be committed to playing an eight-man front.

They're going to run blitching, and they're going to do a lot of things to stop you, and they're going to force the ball. But the key is going to be, can he create, the key to the Pittsburgh defense under the Lebeau, that style of defense is creating turnovers. And to create turnovers, you've got to be able to put pressure on the quarterback, and you have to have corners that can read the quarterback. Now, Adori Jackson might be that guy. But Logan Ryan, if it's outside on the corner and he's playing outside the corner,

people are going to go after him because they're worried about whether he can run or not. So I think he's got his work cut out for him. Yeah. Just looking at other guys. What about Chris Richard with the Seahawks? Does he get credit for that, or is it one of those things? I think Chris Richard has basically taken the menu from Pete, Carol who took it from Dan Quinn

passed it just down from one coordinated to the next. First it was Gus Bradley, that it was Dan Quinn, and now it's Keith. So to me it's Pete's defense, and Pete's defense hasn't changed since 1985. Sort of like Monty Kiffin. That was my Hall of Fame could be in this class

no matter what. He's always around Monty Kiffin's defense is really what they do in Seattle. That's Monty's original defense. Then when he went to Tampa, he changed it, and Tampa 2 is really a cover three. People don't understand this, but Tampa 2 is a cover three defense because the Mike

linebacker's in the middle of the field. It's just cloud. It's three cloud as opposed to Tampa 2, but that's a whole other conversation. I'm just glad we mentioned Monty Kiffin. I think he deserved it. I think Monty does too. He's earned it. We mentioned Lane and Monty. This is a family thing. Yeah, it's basically a Kiffin podcast at this point.

I'll be sure to host those two. That'll be fun. Should we move on to the defensive line coaches? Those guys are probably even more important than coordinators at times just because they have to deal with pass rush, you know, being able to get in the trenches and make some damage. When you look at those guys, who are your guys at the top of the list? So when you're a D-Lion coach in the NFL, basically you're a lion tamer.

Because defense alignment are not really, you know, they're hard to coach. I mean, they're wired. They kind of, they want to go out. They want to play. You got to get them in, you got to get, you need a top hat. You need to be able to control them. They're going to play. And if you can do it where you're not doing it where you're just kissing their ass and you can

demand from them, like Jim Washburn was a really good dealin coach, I think Andre Patterson up at the Minnesota. I think this is a lot from Zimmer. But Cincinnati and Minnesota, when Zimmer's been the head coach, has always taken these third, fourth round, underachiever guys, like Danielle Hunter, third round pick from Minnesota out of LSU, really a talented player.

They've gotten him to be a blue chip. I mean, Daniel Hunter's a really good player. Patterson deserves a lot of credit for what they've done there, Linville Joseph. They've done a good job with the defensive line there. I think Thomas Sulo now in Washington, I think he was a really, that's what he was. He's a D-Line coach.

That's what he can do. You know, Mike Turgovic and Green Bay, I think he's a really good. I think Washington's a really good defensive line coach. You know, I think Joe Cullen and Baltimore, it's a different style of run. It's a different style than what they're used to, but I also think he's a good D-line coach. But these guys here, when you see the D-line, they've got to play at a high level, and they've got to play consistently. And these players sometimes aren't the easiest guys to motivate or to get them to play consistently.

Yeah, even Brian Cox came out and said he thought Eric Washington was probably the best. I think he's a blue-ship player. Yeah, I think he really is. Absolutely. And another guy, Bill Collar with the Broncos. It'll be interesting what Caller, what Bill can do. Bill's always had a good reputation around the league. I think a lot of it is, you know, sometimes it's hard to always be a jerk. And the D-line coach is got to be a jerk. I mean, you've got to really, it's hard to get those guys to go. That's why Marinelli was so good. Again, Dallas is good here because Marinelli helps be the D-Line coach as well. That's what he does. Even when he was the head coach of Detroit Lions, Marinelli sat in the defensive line meeting rooms.

so that's why their defensive line plays and gets better as a year goes on. Yeah, I was trying to give like an example of what you're dealing with a defensive line coach. And the best person that came to my mind was Chris Jenkins. He could be this absolute just dominate any defensive. Like, you know, if you put him on a set, Chris Jenkins is going to absolute dominate. But sometimes if his practice, he might just be like, from Hard Knocks from 2010 when he's on the jets, he was just like, yeah, I'm just not going to be out there today. That's the way it wasn't Maryland.

Yeah. I mean, Maryland, I mean, he should have been. The Panthers. He's just always been like that. He should have been a first round pick. I mean, the guy had incredible. But when you got it all the time, I don't know. Grady Jackson was a great player at the Raiders.

He was a sixth round pick. He had incredible talent. He could have been as good as any defensive alignment I've ever been around. He just didn't give it to you all the time. Yeah, Albert Hainsworth. Yeah, I mean, there's another perfect example. Once Hayworth got paid, it was over. Yeah, when he left the Titans and bringing back up Washington, of course.

Just from a defensive line standpoint and just how these coaches are able to impact them, is there something that you looked at when you were a GM? Like hiring those guys? Did you want someone that played defensive line or did you just want someone that had a voice? I think you need a jerk. I think you really need a lion tamar. That's what it seems like. You need somebody who's going to go in there demand from the players, somebody who's a Marine.

I think you need a Marine type guy who's going to go in there and lead the troops because if your D-line plays at a high level and he can develop players. Again, this position, these two, the O-line D-line, they're coaching four or five players that impact the game on a consistent basis. They should be the highest-paid coaches along with the coordinators. Absolutely. And I want to bring this up. Jim Topsula does not have a must.

I haven't seen the picture of that. No, yeah. He shaved it. He looks like a different guy. As we're sitting in here, we have the Ron Jeremy book over there. Thomas Sulla with the mustache looked like a bad 70s porn star. Yeah, he did it well, but it's all gone.

He's cleaned himself up in Washington, D.C. He's in the nation's capital, so he had to clean it up. I'm sure. All right, Lombardi, before we move on, I want to point out that for over 20 years, DirecTV has been the exclusive home to NFL Sunday ticket, the only way to get every live game every Sunday.

And that's good news for you, NFL fans. Direct TV has expanded the service. If you live in an apartment or are an enrolled college student, now you can get NFL Sunday ticket without a satellite. To see if you were eligible, go online today to NFL sundayticket.tv and stream every NFL Sunday ticket game this season to follow your favorite team no matter where you live. Use promo code ringer at checkout to save 15%. Again, that's NFL Sundayticket.tv promo code ringer.

And while we're here, it's not just watching at home, people. I gotta go to the game sometimes, and buying tickets to sports and concerts can be complicated and confusing, but there is a better and simpler way to buy with Seekek. With the seamless mobile experience you can buy and sell tickets in just two taps, there's nothing quite like seeing your favorite team or musician in person, and Seek will get you closer to the action for a great value. Seek saves you time and money by searching multiple ticket sites to compare prices and find amazing deals for you. Seekeek also has plenty of concert, comedy, and theater tickets available also. Best of all, my listeners, yes, that's you. Get $20 rebate off their first Seekek purchase. To get your $20 rebate on tickets, download the Seekek app today.

Go to the settings tab and click add a promo code. Enter promo code Ringer NFL. Seek will send you $20 after you've made your first ticket purchase. Download the Seek app and enter promo code Ringer NFL today. Okay. to the podcast. And we're going to go to the third phase of the game. One of my favorite phases, of course, special teams. And I wanted to say this is the Mike Westoff Award. He's probably the most famous special teams coach that people can think of just from, you know, some of the speeches

he gave Owen Hard Knocks. And one of my favorite lines from Mike, I just want to give him the credit was discouragement is the devil's best weapon, which I feel like is a good thing to say in football. Special teams coaches. The last special teams coach to get hired in the last decade was John Harbaugh. We haven't seen a lot of those guys make the jump from special teams to head coach. But what is that group for you? To me, it sets the culture of the organization. I think your special teams coach has to, and I wrote this in my book, Special Teams coach has to be your best player pro-personnel director.

He's got to be able to see talent, identify talent, and develop talent. Really important. Okay. And then he's also got to be able to adhere to the culture because you get your toughness from your special teams as a full team. You cover kicks, you cover punts. Your toughness comes. And if you have a tough demanding special teams coach,

like I'll give you the, per example, like Dave Fipp, He was hired by Chip Kelly. They were really good in the kicking game in Philadelphia because Chip Kelly wanted to develop the culture of the Eagles through the kicking game. Okay? And FIP did a marvelous job. Now since Hallie Roseman's taken over and Doug Peterson's taken over, they don't see the kick a game has given them culture.

They don't even see culture, period. They don't really care about culture. And you lose a little bit. That doesn't make FIPA less coach, but they'll start to get rid of these special teams guys and it'll affect their team. But I think FIP's really good. I think Brian Schneider and Seattle's really good. I think Joe Judge at New England, because New England stresses the culture there.

I think he's really good. I think Brad Sealy, a former coach of the Raiders at the Raiders of the Patriots, he's really good. And Dave Tobb is really good too. Is it Tobe or Todd? Dave Tobe, yeah, with the Chiefs. And Tobes interviewed for head coaching jobs. Now, whether we can get one or not, I don't know. But to me, those guys, they set the culture of your organization.

If you get a really good one there, one that can evaluate. Because what fans don't understand is they, they have to evaluate the players coming in, but they also evaluate the matchups on each team. So can you put your, can this left tackle block that guy, can this right tackle block this person, or can this gunner do this? And they've got to be able to see talent and develop talent,

really challenging job. And it's really important to the overall culture of the team. It creates a culture that can transcend itself to the other part of the team. It can also just give people a chance. We told that Terrell Davis story a couple times, just about him coming on special teams. And you've seen it, you know,

A lot of those guys will, special teams coaches will watch the defense or watch the offense and see receivers that are left to the side or defensive backs left to the side and they'll pull them over and almost re-energize them. It's like, well, you're going to be my best player. You're going to be my gunner on special teams and you have a new position and people buy in and it changes how everyone feels about it. And I think the way to do it though, Tate, is you can't, you can't make special teams non-execkels. Like the Raiders, Al Davis wouldn't let certain players on special teams. You didn't want to play them. You see it in Philadelphia now. They don't want certain guys playing special teams wrong.

to wait, if you want your team to be all in, then everybody's going to be all in. They should play some form of the kicking game to help your team. That develops the all-in mentality. And when you have a coach, a special team's coach who's demanding it, then I think it really helps your team. And you build your culture that way. And just one of the name I had on my list was Joe Marchiano with the Lions.

Yeah. And Joe's been around a long time. You know, and I think Joe's done a good job. And a lot of these guys have done a good job. You know, it's just a question of how the organization sees it. Sometimes the special teams coach is limited. You know, like most of the West Coast coaches, they just want

clean exchanges for special teams. Whereas in New England, there's a lot of practice. You'd be shocked how much practice time's going on. You'd been shocked if Chip Kelly how much practice time he was doing. That's why they were so good and that's why he was trying to change the culture in Philadelphia, but they didn't let him do it. And people don't understand that scheme plays a role

on special teams. Yeah. I mean, there's audibles in special teams. There's checks. How you cover the punter, the direction he's going to punt the ball into all those things factor. And if you can control field position, I mean, it's huge. I mean, it's really huge being able to control field position. And it's not just the punter and the kicker that makes special teams.

It's who you have covering down the kicks. And some of these coaches, like if you were to ask some of these head coaches who the L4 and the L5 on the opponent's kickoff coverage team, they can't tell you, then that means they don't emphasize special teams. But nobody asks them. Like Jason Garrett, who's the L4 and the L5 on the Giants kickoff team? If he knows, God bless him. I don't think he does.

I think it's four claps would be his response. There you go. way to end this. We didn't even mention Jason Garrett, really, when we're talking about head coaches, unfortunately. Well, I mean, Jason's, you know, he's, I saw it today. I posted a picture up. He was around a bunch of cowboy cheerleader, so now I found out what he does. Oh, yeah, it just hangs out.

So basically. I'll tell the other guy, I think we missed on this whole conversation, Bruce Ariens. Yeah. I think Bruce Ariens. He was in my Redship class. He is a Red Ship. I think he's a Red Ship as a coordinator, and I think he's a Red Ship as a Head Coach. He's 41 and 22.

I think he was, I think he's really undervalued. and I think this will be a huge year because he can get something out of quarterbacks. Another guy I had on my list that I didn't mention from a head coach was Ron Rivera as well. Yeah, Ron does it. Ron has done a really good job.

I think Mike Shula has done a good job being his coordinator. I think Sean McDermott did a great job. I think some of those young coaches that are now becoming the now are head coach. I think Kyle Shanahan can be very quickly could become a blue coach. Even Adam Gase, so we mentioned his all from the corner of him.

We're talking about Adam Gase. And we'll see with Vance Joseph, Anthony Lynn. I think Anthony Lynn has to make to be a good coach. It's going to be interesting to see what happens. Todd Bowles. I really think Todd Bowles is a really good coach. I think right now poor Todd Bowles is in a situation and have a quarterback. And just some storylines.

There's a little, a couple word on the streets before we get out of here. That was a good time, Lombardi. I just want to bring up. We have some news coming out of here. The Steelersland, quarterback Joe Hayden, they get him on three-year, 27 million deal. Is that, is it hard for a player? Actually, had someone that tweeted this to ask this question to you. Is it hard for a player to be in a camp with the Browns get released,

then come to another team that he hasn't been there for anything and be able to play right away. Yeah, no, he's going to play right away, and he's going to play, and he's going to play, I think they open up against the Browns. So one thing you know, he knows the receivers of the opponents pretty well. He's watched, he's practiced the offense pretty good. If New England would have done this, they'd have been screaming that they cheated. But look, I think Joe's a really good player. He's long-armed. He doesn't run as well as he did in the past, but his arm length makes up for it. And in Pittsburgh scheme, I think Tomlin will get the most out of him. I think, you know, is he worth the 27 million over three? No. I think that's kind of like you have to look at the

contract to really see. I think Joe Hayden was happy to get out of Cleveland. I think he knew he was going to get a good deal. I think there's a lot of teams interested in him. And just one trade to be looking at over the weekend. A lot of people were saying that T.J. Ward could be a name that's right out there. Another name that we're seeing, uh, Jermaine Curse. They're obviously shopping him to see if there's some market farm. I think there's no doubt they're shopping Jermaine curse. I think Seattle feels like this is the best group of receivers they've had in a long time. I think they're definitely doing that. Lockett, Richardson Williams. We talked about Matt. We talked about Dorset at, at Baltimore at, at, uh, Indianapolis. I think they're definitely shopping him. He

he could land somewhere else. I think this is going to be a pretty busy weekend, Tate, in terms of teams trying to handle that. But Curse, he's over $2 million. Do they still get them? And I think they feel like they've got to get a better player, Jermaine Gurley at the San Francisco 49th. They just redid his deal.

Do they trade him? I know there's been a lot of teams talking about him. So it'll be interesting to see how that goes. And one more thing, one last story. You praised Al Davis at the start of this podcast. We're going to end it on Al Davis too. Cameron Irving gets signed by the Chiefs. You kind of gave a hat tip to Al Davis.

It's all out there. Al Davis believed in pedigree, more than anything of all. He believed in the pedigree of the player. That's why he signed Jim Plunkett. That's why he would always bring in guys that were... Morinovich. That was his pedigree. He made him his pedigree.

That's where we kind of lost it. And I wasn't there for that. But I think that's really what he's always marveled his game after. He's trying to find a way to connect to the player. And the player had talent to be this high of a pick. We have to find it. Now, to me, I think we're Cam's problem is this. He's not a left tackle.

He's not a center. He's not a right tackle. He has to play left guard. That's where he's got to play. Whether they can get it out of him, I don't know. I think it's, you know, for Cleveland to give up on an offensive lineman, they have a pretty good line, so maybe they just didn't feel like carrying the salary. Cleveland's collecting picks, but at some point you've got to put a good team on the field.

Yeah. Cleveland is trusting the process. As they say, you know that with your Philliesports fans. Yeah, and we didn't even talk about it. You know, I took a lot of crap this week for the Jarvis Landry thing, Tate. A lot of crap. I saw that. People were coming at you.

You said Jarvis Landry's on the trading block. They try, they're trying to squish it. And I think I'm pretty confident over time. I'll be proven right on that. I think by opening of the weekend, I think there'll be some news that comes out that I'll be proven correct on. Wow.

That's a little drop, a little nugget of knowledge from Mike Lombardy to end this podcast. This has been GM Street. This has been the Blue Chip GM Street. We've done them all. Offense, defenses, head coaches, offensive coordinators,

anything you can think of, we ranked it. What are your final thoughts for the Blue Chippers out there? I'm looking forward to the season. Tate, happy Labor Day. Absolutely. Happy Labor Day. Enjoy it.

This has been GM Street of the Ringer Podcast Network and we'll be back soon. Thanks again to get to NFL game pass. throw every catch every fourth and inches. Whatever your favorite game is, NFL Game Pass has got it covered. Better yet, they've got you covered for this year's action, too. That includes live out-of-market

preseason games, full game replays, and condensed games with all the action packed into 45 minutes. This podcast was longer than that. If it's NFL football and it happened, NFL Game Pass has got it. So kick off the 2017 NFL season with a free NFL game pass trial.

Sign up now at NFL.com slash the ringer.