The Ringer NFL Show - 'GM Street' — Revisiting the Best Rivalry in Football (Ep. 109)

Episode Date: May 31, 2017

The Ringer's Mike Lombardi and Tate Frazier examine the rivalry between the Steelers and the Ravens (01:30), Baltimore's young receiving corps (07:30), and their defense's identity without Terrell Suggs (10:00). Then they discuss Pittsburgh's plans going forward with an aging Ben Roethlisberger (13:00) and the Steelers' unsung hero (17:30) before reviewing recent news in the NFL (31:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The NBA Finals kickoff this Thursday and Theringer.com is your place to go. Make sure to check out all of our basketball coverage this week, including the Kyrie Irving feature we just published. Writer John Gonzalez takes a look into Kyrie Irving's off-the-court brand, his popular sneakers, and out-there theories on Alien Life in his latest piece. Kyrie Irvin, wow, the world is flat. Indeed, you can now read that on the ringer.com. Welcome to GM Street. I'm Tate Frazier.

And on the line, Mike Lombardi. Lombardi, how are you doing, man? I am good, Tate. How are you? Happy Memorial weekend. You all ready? Yeah, it's been a beautiful weekend. I went up to Napa Valley for the first time. Check that out. A little different than the NFL, I'd say. But I drank some wine. You ain't in North Carolina when you're in Napa. Yeah, I've seen a lot of farms in my life, but they were not that pretty. So it was good to see a different world of agriculture out there. It's a higher class, but it was a nice time.

Oh, that's awesome. You can't beat that. But we had training camp when I was at the Raiders. We were in the heart of Napa Valley, and we ate every day at the Marriott right there, and everybody else was having good meals. And no one could watch his practice. That was even the better thing. Wow. That sounds like a nice lifestyle. Maybe that's why Al Davis had figured it out.

He got his french fries. He got his wine. That's where he got the prize. No wine. No wine. Diet Pepsi. That's where we got the fries and the Diet Pepsi right there. We could have eaten anywhere.

I mean, the French laundry was literally like five miles away, but we were going to sit there and eat the Marriott food, which all worked out. It's all good. Yeah. That's a nice life. Today on the show, though, we're going to talk about not Al Davis, unfortunately for those that are really trying to tune in to hear more stories from Michael Lombardi. This week we're going to talk about one of the best rivalries,

probably the best modern rivalry since at least 2000, and that is the rivalry between the Baltimore Ravens and the Pittsburgh Steelers. It's obviously not the most storied rivalry because the Baltimore Ravens are a little bit of a new franchise coming in in 1999, but they won a Super Bowl early. You got Ray Lewis. You got Heinz Ward. When you think of this rivalry just in general,

Barty, is there something that really comes to mind and sticks out to you? You know, I think it's defense. I think certainly both teams have built their reputation on defense, and both teams play outdoors with bad weather. Defense has to win, and I think when you look at the two franchises, they find a way, they have found ways to win, make it to the playoffs. I mean, Ben Rathesburg, as a rookie quarterback, goes there. Tommy Maddox comes off the bench and plays well.

And then you look at Baltimore with Joe Flacco drafted and how they were able to win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer. So I think they've managed the quarterback position up until Big Ben became sensational, but yet the defense has always been the signature. And I think that's the story here with both these teams as they transition from being a dominant defense because neither of them are dominating on defense right now as they adapt to the modern time, which is you've got to be able to win on the road with offense most of the time. And I think that's really where the story lies.

And Baltimore has yet to get their offense straightened out. Pittsburgh has to a degree. but we might be going through a change of Pittsburgh if Big Ben decides he's going to quit next year. Well, before we get into the Big Ben storyline and what he's looking forward for the future, he's apparently only committed for just this season as what he's saying, but that's what a lot of guys say in the NFL.

Let's start with the Baltimore Ravens, and let's start with what the Ravens have been up to these days. Obviously, when you think of Baltimore, most people jump to the Super Bowl and the lights went out when it was the Harbaal Bowl when both the brothers went head-to-head and the Ravens came out. John Harbaal gets the Super Bowl. Ravens and Joe Flacco. Joe Facko finally decides that he is an elite quarterback after all.

But now we're in 2017. We're four years removed from that Super Bowl with the Ravens. And it's kind of in this position where what's Ozzie Newsom going to do with this team? Is John Harbaugh a part of the future? And is Joe Flacco really going to be a guy that continues to kind of teeter on I'm going to be a top-level quarterback or is he going to stay in the middle of the pack? And when you're looking at this team and the Ravens in General Lombardi, what's the really the big storyline for you this season that you really want to look into to see what they're going to do for the future? Well, I think let's start off with, since the Super Bowl, Tate, they're 32 and 34 counting playoff. Okay, so they're a below 500 team since then. Now, we don't think

of them that way. We think they're still an elite team, but clearly they're trending downward, and I think that when you look at their roster, their roster has been gone through a tremendous metamorphosis of change because they've lost some great players, whether it's Ed Reed, Ray Lewis. And I think what you're seeing is, is that as they transition from being a defensive team, they've yet to get their offense handled. I mean, how many coordinators, Cam Cameron, Mark Tressman, Marty Morningwig, and now you have Craig Roman, and I think this year, Roman would have been the coordinator, only that Joe Flacco put his foot down to John Harbaugh and said, hey, look, man, I really like Marty Morning League.

I want them on the staff. I want you to keep them. So now they've come up with the worst thing in football, which is co-coordinators. You know, one guy handles the wrong, one guy handles the past. That's never good. And so, you know, but they're trying to make Joe happy, and I think that's really what lies the fault. I think they've never been able to. They're after Joe Flacko, other than the one year with Gary Kubiak. They've really never been able to figure out what he does well and how he can man, how he can play well within the system.

He's not a franchise quarterback and just roll out there and play with everybody. But when you look at what he did with Kubiak and how he was effective with him, I think that's when they're at their bums in the last since Harbaal's been there. They're 10 and 8 versus Pittsburgh, and six of those losses have come when they fail to score more than 20 points. So when they can generate points, they usually can beat Pittsburgh. The problem is they have a hard time generating points. And what you need to generate points in the NFL nowadays is an ability to throw the ball and have a passing game. And when you look at the wide receiving core of the Ravens, it's hard to find a guy that's really a star and for someone to Joe Flack or to lean on.

You know, you got Bresod Paraman, Mike Wallace, Michael Caponiero. I mean, you know, I started throwing those names out, and you're really kind of, you're trying to find and salvage a guy that could be a fit for Joe Flacco. I mean, is there anything that they can do in this offseason and kind of upgrade that position and get him some weapons on the outside? Well, I think the number one thing they have to do is decide who they are. And I think when you look at their team, I think they're not, they have to be a play action past team.

That's where Flacco is at his best. And I think that's what Kubiak did for him. So really the burden is going to fall on, whether it's going to be Talaferro the back, or is it going to be Terrence West the back? We know Danny Woodhead's going to be the role player within the offense. But I think what you have to do when you have Flacko is you've got to be able to throw the ball down the field. The year he went to the Super Bowl, he averaged 7.2 yards per attempt down the field. Yards per attempt is a critical number.

Last year he was at 6'4. Okay, so whenever he's above 7, and he's only been above 7 three times in his career, they usually have great seasons. And I think partly that all becomes because they can't really run the ball. They have to be able to play action fake. Flacco is not a West Coast offense quarterback. He's just not a rhythm thrower. He is a drop-back, play action pass, separate the defense, throw the ball down the field.

And that's why they have to be able to run the football. And I think they realize the problem. Their offensive line has been in flux. I mean, last year, they started a bunch of rookies this year. Maybe they'll come back and play. The rookies will play better. Stanley and Lewis certainly have a chance to play better. I think this whole thing starts with their ability to run the football.

something they've not been able to do effectively when they put the burden on Flacco, that just isn't going to work. And the Ravens, you know, when you think about that team in general and that offensive line, there are some young guys that have shown some flashes. James Hurst is a name that comes of mind that is... Of course you bring up the North Carolina guy. You love those guys. Of course, but you know, you've got to talk about some of those young guys,

and it seems like that line could be groomed to do something that could help Joe Flacko out. I want to flip it back to the actual coaching side of it. We mentioned Harbaugh and that relationship and him trying to appease Joe Flacco a little bit. John Harbaugh has obviously been there for quite some time. He is, you know, I think a lot of people when they think of the Ravens, they think of John Harbaugh, would be one of the first people they think of.

Is it coming to its head there in Baltimore with Harbaugh? Do you think he's finally going to fill the hot seat this season? Or is it one of those things where he has a good, you know, 10-11 one year and everyone gets back on the bandwagon and jumps on board with Harbaal? I think that, you know, the expectations are going to be huge for them. And I think really, you know, when you're 32 and 34 over the last 144 games since the Super Bowl, you know, teams are expecting to win. And I think his best team that he had was a team that lost to us in New England 35, 31,

in the trick play game. I think that team might have the next week would have clearly beaten Indianapolis's team. Since then, I think this year the pressures on John. I think he knows the pressures on them because the feeling around the building is is they have this expectations that they should compete for Super Bowl. Bowls, but they've only had, you know, they've had two playoff games since they went to the Super Bowl. They've won one and lost one. And I think that's really where the pressure is going to be on John. And the pressure more than anything is on, can John fix the offense? Can he fix

can the changes he's made with the offensive line coach? Can the changes he's made with hiring Greg Roman? Can those changes affect and the changes he's made on his staff? Be able to run the ball. If Kenneth Dixon can run, if Califero can run, if West can be the running back, can Ben Watson come back and play? Remember last year, they had no tight end. to really play with. I mean, last year they struggled. Their tight ends got hurt. Max Williams was on IR. Ben Watson was on IR. So they had a lot of guys that were hurt. The key's going to be, can they get this thing turned around offensively? Because defensively, they're going through a change. I mean, they're still going to have T-sugs, but he's not the same

T-sugs. They've got to get the corner situation. They draft Latimore. I think this is a team really in transition. And when you're a team in transition, it's tough to have Super Bowl expectations. And when you're talking about that transition from Suggs to some of those other guys defense. There's not really a face beyond Suggs. I mean, obviously there was Dumerville there last year. Eric Weddell that came over in free agency, but those aren't guys that are really being built in because when you think of the Ravens, you kind of got to a point where they're drafting these guys bringing them in and they're becoming staples, you know, in their own right. When you look at a guy like a CJ Mosley, who's been, you know, a linebacker there that's

sort of trying to grow, you know, he's only 24 years old going on 25. But I mean, is that someone that can be a face of that defense for the Ravens where they can sort of at least get some sort of identity on that side of the ball beyond Suggs? I think they've had a hard time passing the baton. You know, good teams typically can pass the baton from Ray Lewis to another generation. When I was at the 49ers, we had guys that came in in a draft class, Ronnie Lott, Eric Wright. They came in the same draft class, and they took the baton over from Jack Reynolds and built the – executed the plan.

I don't see that with Baltimore. Baltimore has struggled really to fill some of the voids of. their team. I mean, they're kind of like in between. They've tried to hit, look, they signed two guys for the secondary, Eric Weddell and Tony Jefferson. I mean, they haven't drafted to the level that everybody thinks they have. And I think that's been to have

these great drafts. And last year, you know, they had a couple guys that Stanley played looks like he could be a good player. Tavon Young played. He could be a good player. And maybe this year when they add the players they've added, they can be. But I think it's been hard to pass the time because they haven't been as good as they needed to be on defense. They haven't been able to find

that other rusher to go with sucks. They signed Dumerville. Who's it going to be now? Is it going to be Tim Williams? Maybe. I think Tim Williams could be if he can stay, if he can stay in not healthy, but if he can stay out of trouble off the field, Tim Williams could be the guy. They pay Brandon monies a lot, Brandon Williams, a lot of money. The other thing about the Ravens, it's interesting. They're 30th in the league right now and how much money they've spent on their players. So that tells you how good they think their team is they have $8, $2 million worth of cap. And I think when you move forward, I'd fall on John Harbaugh. Can he get this team turned around?

Are they going to be able to do it where they can, you know, starts to get rocky? And we've seen this with Baltimore. How many times have they fired an offensive coordinator midseason? Cameron, and then they fired last year. They fired Mark Trestman. So, you know, they start out in Cincinnati. They play Cleveland. They got Pittsburgh.

The first month of the season, they should be no worse than two and two. They should be three and one. And that can give them some momentum as they go forward. And we should mention that John Harbaugh did come out and say that he supported the celebrations. in the end zone. So hopefully John Harbaal is trying to have some fun this year and maybe that'll rub off on his players and the Ravens will be back where they want to be

at the top of that division. The other team that's going to be battling for that spot that's always in the conversation it seems like is Mike Tomlin Steelers. When you look at the steel curtain and what they are in a modern sense, we talked about the defense being obviously the identity of these two franchises,

but the Steelers really have embraced the offensive side having, you know, Antonio Brown, having LeBeyon Bell, and obviously having Big Ben back there and making plays, Martavis, Brian. There's just so many guys when you go down the list. When you look at the Steelers, what's sort of the expectation for their season? And if this is Big Ben's last year, you know, the Steelers really need to go all in with Labion and those guys.

I think there are three guys to Pittsburgh this year, quarterbacks. They brought in Patrick Mahomes. They brought in Davis Webb, and they brought in Joshua Dobbs. They spent time with those three guys in private workouts and visits. So they kind of know Big Ben, even though he's due to make $17 million next year, he could opt out of his deal. They kind of have a sense that they're trying to get in a transition. And I think the quote that Mike Tomlin used, he said, Kevin Colbert and I spent special attention to the position over the last several years,

if nothing else from a dry run perspective, to gain knowledge and the information necessary to make a good decision when we come to that fork in the road. and who's to say that we aren't there right now. To me, that to me, Mike Tomlin knows that Ben, whether it's health reasons, whether it's interest, whether it's love of the – whatever it is, he knows the leash is short, and his defense has declined over the years because they've yet to find – James Harrison's still your best rusher, and he was their best rusher last year. Jarvis Jones didn't pan out. Now, maybe T.J. Watt can pan out for them, but they've got to find a guy that can rush the passer around the corner.

And at times last year, Bud Landry looked like he could be the guy. But Pittsburgh has to find that complementary pass rusher, because they're going to score points offensively. They just have a hard time slowing people down without a great pass rush. If it's Harrison, that it tells you it's not a great pass rush. It feels like James Harrison has been playing football for, you know. A hundred years. Yeah, exactly.

Since you were in diapers. Since you were in diapers. Exactly. I mean, it's unbelievable. And he shows these videos online about him clean and jerking way. it's remarkable. But I think what Pittsburgh has done better than Baltimore is Pittsburgh's been able to figure out the offensive scheme.

And Pittsburgh, over the same time with Baltimore, they're 43 and 27. And they've had six playoff games in that time. I mean, so, and they've got more Caprum. They're 14th of the League in Caprum. Now, you take Ruffisburg away from them, and, you know, they're going to pick up 17, whatever, they're going to pick up even more cap room. I think Pittsburgh has yet to figure out defensively.

I think that's been their complications, because Tomlin wants to run a certain style of defense that he's familiar with. They got rid of the Dick LeBose scheme, and they're trying to replace it, and I think their transition has been better than Baltimore. And I think that's the tale of both teams here. I think one team's transition's been better. I think Baltimore's been lagging behind because Baltimore, for everybody thinking they've drafted great, they really have not been able to figure out what pieces around Joe Flacco,

offensively scheme-wise, and player-wise, most benefits them. The Steelers, they know. They know exactly what Big Ben needs. He needs big outside receivers. He needs vertical guys to stretch. And they got two of the best skill players in football, Levyon Bell and Antonio Brown. And when you look at Big Ben,

so we just mentioned that he basically has come out and said, I never commit to anyone more than anyone more than within one year in a season, basically. You know, I'm playing for 2017. I don't know what the future holds. But he's still, he signed a five-year contract in 2015. He still has $46 million outstanding that the Steelers will owe him. So when you have all that in the back of your mind as a Steelers as a franchise, I mean, is there a little bit of concern of like this is our one shot to get it with Big Ben

and then we have a lot to figure out in the future? Or is it one of those things where we're just going to let this thing ride out and sort of see what happens and see how it plays out? Look, I think we spend time with Mahomes, you spend time with Davis Webb, you spent time with Joshua Dobbs. They know the end is coming near. And I know he's owed money. But I think if you look at Ben, Ben had a huge decline from 15 to 16. A lot of it could be receivers.

You know, Ben averaged 8-4 per yards per attempt. And this is important for Ben, because Ben's one of the best, move around the pocket, throw the ball down the field guys in the NFL. He doesn't run with it, and he takes a lot of hits. I mean, let's face it, he hasn't played 16 games in three years. He's not been able to stay on the field since 14 for all 16 games. So we know he gets hurt quite a bit. We know he takes a lot of punishment.

Even though his offensive line, I think the unsung hero of Pittsburgh has been Mike Muncheck. I think Mike Muncheck, their offensive line coach, does a marvelous job, and he's been able to develop a left tackle. He's been able to develop some offensive line, and they've done a better job of building, plus the way they run the football. You know, everybody thinks Leveon Bell just stops in the hole. But when you watch the tape, they coach them on how to do that.

I mean, they double-team the point to where Leveon can stop without penetration and then make the read. It's not just, oh, he does it on his own. It's the way they coach it. It's the way they play it, and it's really a well-done. And I think Pittsburgh knows offensively that that's how they've got. to win games because Pittsburgh's defense yet has not been able to turn it around. And you look, a lot of it is because they haven't been able to fix the draft.

Last year they drafted all those corners. They drafted outside Russia because they lost up. They lost Darbush-Jones, and they still don't have it outside rush. So I think it's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out with their defense. One guy I really do like on the defensive line that I think can develop is Anthony Chikolo, who was out of Miami, Florida. And when he was coming out of college, I'm sure you remember this when he was coming out of high school or trying to pick his college.

It was down the number one defensive in the country was Jadavian Clowny and Chicholo was number two, and everybody was fighting over those two guys. And I think Chantrell Henderson and Chikolo both went to Miami. And so he's one guy that I always see when he lines up on the Steelers where I'm like maybe he's still a young guy. I think he's like 24, 25 years old. He is young guy.

But see, the problem is with him is he can't go backwards. So he's a 34 linebacker that has to go forward, much like all the Pittsburgh linebackers. And I think that's where people, because of the way teams play and because of the adjustments that you have to make within your secondary, you need some guys that can go forward and backwards. And I think Chickaulow gets on the field, he gets put in some liabilities. They've got to generate a pass rush, and I think they've done a better job.

I think Jason Hargrove is one of the better defensive linemen on their team. I think with him with Cam Hayward, and I think Stefan Truitt really took a giant step. I think they took a giant step forward last year defensively. Their secondary just didn't play well. Artie Burr Burns didn't come through. Russ Cockrell didn't really come through for them. They need those guys to come through. get Sequez Golson back from IR.

He was her chance to get this defense turn around. The key's going to be, can it keep Big Ben healthy? Can they keep Levy on Bell healthy? And can they keep those receiving core healthy? Because those guys, when they lost Sammy Bennett, when they lost those guys, all of a sudden the burden, start a fall on some other guys who weren't able to do it as

much. But I like Pittsburgh to me, if there's a team challenge the paper tiger right now, which are the New England Patriots, because everybody's a paper tiger, Tate. Right now, everybody's, you know, they're all paper tigers. All paper, it looks like New England has the best team. I think Pittsburgh has a chance to be the second best team. I think Oakland's got to prove they're better on defense. I think Kansas City's got

question marks. I don't know where Denver could go. I think Pittsburgh has the best chance. And I just will point this out for a lot of people. Like Todd Haley, do you think he's getting enough credit for what he's been able to do as far as developing this receiving core and this offense in general under Big Ben? I mean, it feels like every single year, like last year was Eli Rogers. And then Martavis, Brian, before that, Sammy Coates is another thing that pops up. It just feels like every single year the Pittsburgh Steelers keep turning out these guys and turning them into big-time receivers that make plays in the slot or wherever it may be. I mean, does Todd Haley deserve some credit for what he's been able to do with his offense?

I think they're a receiver. And Pittsburgh has done a good job of selected receivers and develop a receiver. I mean, Kobe Hamilton was on Cincinnati's practice squad. He got cut off practice spots. He came in and made plays for them. And then when you look at Eli Rogers, you know, not drafted out of Louisville, came in the slot, made some plays. You know, they've done a good job with their skill players. They really have done a good job.

They've done a good job to find the roles for the skill players, too. So I think that helps them. But to me, this is going to come down to can they get that pass rush? Can they get that one guy to come off the corner, and can they get enough help with their secondary in terms of coverage? When it becomes a man-to-man game, because all games become man-to-man, can they play man-to-man and win? And if their rush is going to be good enough. And I think that's the question. Are they better than Baltimore?

I think they are right now. And we'll get to see these two teams go ahead to head in week four this season. Both these teams have pretty favorable starts when you just go down and look at the schedule. I mean, obviously the Steelers open the season against Cleveland Browns, and they have the Vikings who are obviously a little beat up with their whole situation at the quarterback position and whether Sam Bradford can hold up. Then they have at Chicago, and then they play at Baltimore. And then we already mentioned before the Ravens, what they open up with.

So we could even see a chance where both the – those teams are, you know, maybe even 3-0 heading into that first meeting of the season on October 1st. So it could be a fun rendition of the rivalry this season. Yeah, and I think the key is going to be is Baltimore can't panic. I mean, Baltimore's got to play at 16 games. I mean, it's not going to be an easy thing for Baltimore because the pressure is always going to be on John because it feels like if John doesn't turn it around this year. Whereas Mike Tomlin, you know, everybody thinks he has a middle of Super Bowl in so long.

Maybe it's in the team, I think they're going to like what. They got their coat comes on them a little bit. And this is just a little bit of a sidebar, but with Mike Tomlin, I mean, is there more of a seamless transition from the Bill Cowr, obviously Jerome Bettis, that whole Super Bowl team, and then Mike Tomlin comes in, takes over, wins his own Super Bowl. I mean, that transition of power and how Mike Tomlin has done so well, because Mike Tomlin came in that class of, like, Leslie Frazier hires,

like that whole class of coaches that came in, and he's just been, you know, it's almost like it's his program. it's his franchise. It feels like he just completely came right in there, and everyone knew Mike Thomas the guy. I mean, does he deserve all the credit in the world for being able to make that transit? I mean, people don't even mention Bill Cowher a lot.

A lot of people think that he won that first Super Bowl when they first got there with Jerome Bettis. You know, I think it's the Steelers, Tate. I think when you look at the Steelers, I think they understood it, the final role to everybody let people grow. I mean, they've had bad drafts. They didn't fire their personnel director. They've had bad season and fire their coach.

You know, they have patient. They felt like that would be a better. chance to help their run game. I don't think that was a move that I would have done over again, but that's why they're successful. I think Baltimore, to a degree, understands that really well. I think Baltimore is just right now impatient in the sense that they're 32 and 34 since their Super Bowl, and they're desperate to turn this thing around.

They feel the urge, not because of the age of their team, they feel the urge because they expect so much to win. I think their owner, Steve Ashadi. I think he wants, you know, obviously he thinks he can win a Super Bowl every year or else his payroll wouldn't be where it is. When you think of this rivalry in general, obviously it's a new rivalry. It's a 21st century rivalry. I just want to ask you, because you have more perspective on this, looking back in the history of it all,

did you expect when the Ravens became a franchise in Baltimore that they would clash so much with the Pittsburgh Steelers? That it sort of, you know, over the years they had such a similar identity that they became hated rivalries. Because, you know, Heinz Ward and Ray Lewis are the two guys that really define on both sides of the same. this rivalry. But before the Cleveland Browns and the Pittsburgh Steelers hated each other, the Baltimore Colts were their own separate thing, I just feel like this is such a weird thing

where it feels like it's some old rivalry, but really it's really new in the NFL and it's still growing and changing with the years. Yeah, and I think the thing I like about it the most, and it is, and I think what I like about it the most is the fact that each team, you know, when you're in the division and this happens a lot, is when you

play another team that you have to beat to get through the division, it raises your level of how you want to play. It raises your level of how you build your team. You know you have to get through Pittsburgh. You're going to have to have a great defense. You know to win in Pittsburgh, you need this. Or you know to win in Baltimore, you need to do this. It's just to measure your team against the team you have to go through. It doesn't, you know, if you're in the NBA and you're in the East and you have to get through LeBron to get to the finals, you've got to build a team that can really match up to him. This is a big Al Davis thing. And I think Baltimore and

Pittsburgh understand this and how they build their teams to compete with one another. And Cincinnati slowly but surely, kind of like Yeril the Turtle, they kind of came along and built their team to match all these other three other three teams in the north, you know, and they've been able to do it. So I think that's the lesson to learn there. And that's what makes the rivalry so good is because when you make moves to build your team, it hasn't happened in the East. Nobody's built an organization to take down the Patriots.

Right? We're seeing a little bit more of that in the West. I mean, the Raiders coming back, but there hasn't been a transcending team in the West. to say, we better build our team to beat them. You know, and I think that's what happens in the South. Nobody's building their team to beat anybody in the South because of South teams. But when you get teams that are good, like in the NFC South, where Atlanta, now you've got to build your team so Tampa becomes better.

And then New Orleans, you know, they win. You've got to build. I think that's what really separates it. And that's what makes it such a rivalry is when you build your team to beat the number one competitor and you match it, then you get a rivalry. Yeah, the only time I can recall that even be in a question in the AFC East was when the Jets try to go to the NFL East was when the Jets try to go. opposite of the Patriots and try to stack it up on defense and see what happens.

But that was with a bunch of former Ravens and Rex Ryan. So it was sort of in the similar vein. I just want to ask you, is there a moment in that rivalry that's like your favorite? Is there a defining moment in this rivalry? Because for me, it's definitely like Bart Scott versus Heinz Ward in 2007. That was when Bart Scott allegedly threatened Heinz Ward's life on the field, which is, you know, if you've heard Bart Scott talk trash, then there's no telling what he actually said to Heinz-Word, but that's one of my

favorite moments when I think of this, Robert, is there anything that stands out to you? You know, I don't want to play either Pittsburgh or Baltimore during the regular season after you've played them. Like, I don't want, like, when Pittsburgh plays a team the next week, that's when you want to play them. Like,

Pittsburgh's, this game takes so much out of both teams, and Baltimore's the same kind of way. They're so physical that when you play them, you want to play them after they played somebody as physical. You want to play them after they play Pittsburgh. So, You know, for me, it's always been like, look at the schedule. We play Pittsburgh after they play, you know,

may I say they play Dallas or Houston or one of those, okay, no, but if they play Baltimore the next week, that's perfect for you because you get them when they're really kind of physically beaten up. To me, that's the toll. It's like taking a boxer who just went 15 rounds, and all of a sudden he's going to fight another fight within three or four days. That's what makes it so good. Yeah, it was funny.

Like when Steve Smith got in that game, he was like, you know, this was the first time in the NFL that he had felt some sort of, it was like a different atmosphere in the building when they were going to go head to head against the Pittsburgh Steelers in that rivalry game. So that's always interesting to chat. I always think about Terrell Suggs. He has all those T-shirts with all those funny Steelers things, like of him smashing Steelers players and like all those little cartoon and characters

of making fun of the Steelers. It's always just a fun rivalry. It's good to have that in the NFL. It's really, and it's good to have in the league because it built like a... Well, that's all we have on the Pittsburgh Sears and the Baltimore Ravens. I think this will be a fun year. I'm hoping both franchises can kind of get back in order and get back in line and maybe make a chase at the New England Patriots.

I think Tom Brady wants them to be good. I think Bill Belichick, they enjoy it when they're good, right? It makes a little bit more fun. Just for the sake of conversation here, Baltimore is over, the line is nine and Pittsburgh's 10 and a half. Yeah. That makes sense. What's where I think is.

is. Yeah, it feels like Vegas is really on top of that because I feel like they're two 10-win teams. Flacco needs to have the year where everyone can finally say Joe Flacco is finally an elite quarterback. My favorite thing, the only thing that I want to happen at the end of this whole run with this whole lineage of players on both sides, I want James Harrison and Terrell Suggs to like arm wrestle each other to see who's the best because they're too physically dominant.

How pitched you think Baltimore is for not having, they had Harrison. You know, Harrison was cut like 15 times from Pittsburgh, and Baltimore had them on their practice squad and couldn't get them on their team. You imagine Harrison playing next to the Sugs and all those guys in his prime? My Lord. That wouldn't.

It's amazing. James Harrison for people that want to read just like some sort of inspiring story of someone that persevered through a bunch of crap, James Harrison as a guy really can latch on to because he went through a lot and he's still back with the Steelers and still wrecking offenses all over the NFL. Lombardi, should we get in our first?

word on the street this week? We got it. That's behind. We missed last week. We had to get it caught up. Yeah, that's right. This has been quite some time. We're sorry to the listeners that we took the week off, but Lombardi needed a nice little vacation. It was well learned and well deserved. Lombardi's going to become a grandfather, so he's got to make sure he's got everything in order. That's the problem.

Absolutely. That's good news. Just adding to the Lombardi name, adding to the family. That's big for the Lombardi family. That's great. Good news. Well, first story up is a guy that we all know. Defensive back, Moe-Claiborne says that he expects to be the number one. corner when healthy in football. We've obviously seen Mo Claver not be the number one corner with the Cowboys. Do you believe him?

Do you think this is possible, Lombardy? Press. I think he's a better press player than he is an off player. I think can he play with durability? I always felt like Mo Claiborne played corner like a wide receiver-plice corner. I just didn't think he was a physical enough player coming out of college. I thought he played corner like a wide receiver. I hope that's changed because, look, I think the Jets.

I think people are sleeping on the Jets. I think the Jets got a chance to be a good team if they get any play out. out of their secondary because those three guys up front, Richardson's in his contractor, he's going to be a bitch to block. Leonard Williams is already a problem to block, and then Muhammad can be a problem. So I think what you've got three guys up front that could be

really tough to handle. Any play out of their secondary, I think got a chance. I mean, the Jets are one of those teams. They're going to sneak up on people because nobody thinks they're any good. And I think they're better than what, I think they're better than what has happened. I think a lot of things were going on in the locker room. I think there was a

toxic relationship there. I think if they get any play out of the quarterback position and any play out of their secondary, I think they've got a chance to win more than five games, which Vegas doesn't think they are. Another guy that a lot of people were sort of sleeping on after a down year last year, Andy Dalton. He's been working with a quarterback guru, which we've sort of jokes about...

Everybody's a quarterback guru. I mean, I could probably go, Ocean City, go down the corner, go right here, there's probably two guys sitting on the corner of the quarterback gurus. I mean, it's remarkable. I love it. Who's he working with? Like, I don't understand this whole guru thing. It's like Don Don Henley's song. You know, the expert witness. I mean, like, who is this? Like, the guru for Cincinnati is somebody who can help their offense

and handle their offense and get Dalton than the framework of their offense. Like, it isn't so much as mechanics, as much as it is, his decision-making, and then when he gets to the red zone, like, hey, Andy, don't throw the ball to somebody else when you get the red zone. Let's kick field goals. How about that? Let's try that. Is that a guru? Does that make me a guru? Tate? I think I'd hire you. All you need is a broom in, like, a name of a training facility that's sort of, like, aggressive, like, DQB, something. Lombardi facility and then you got These guys that are quarterback gurus, like it's remarkable to me, like they've never been in a

room, they've never been with Bill Walby. Like, I get if a guy's coached in the league and he's helping a player out, but I guess everybody's a guru, I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to go to 34th Street playground after this, and I'll find two gurus down there. All I know is John Skelton's going to be upset with you, with you calling him out

if he's doing it. I love John Skel. I watch every college game, Tate, I watched every college game of John Skelton. I saw John Skelton play. He went to Fordham. My son was working on the Fordham coaching staff. I was at more. I've been to more Fordham games than anybody who listens to this podcast.

I promise you. I've watched John Skelton live and in person more than ever. And if he's a guru, God bless him. Yeah. And for anyone that can't tell, I just love bringing up John Skelton because there's no one that reacts to John Skelton quite like Michael Lombardi. It just makes me too happy. Another guy that's up, Gary Barnage tied in for the Cleveland Brown.

So right now he's an unemployed tight end. He is trying to find a new home in the NFL. He's sort of implying that he's being blackballed from the lead, not getting shots, not getting looks from teams. Is this something of real concern? Do you think Gary Barnish deserves a shot? And is it possibly because he's just not very good, Lombardy? No, he's a good player.

We signed him. I was in Cleveland, we signed him. He's been a good player. I think the problem is it's supplying them at. Look, Tate, everybody thinks you're going to Super Bowl. Everybody has 90 players on the roster. Nobody wants to spend a nickel more than the minimum. And I'm sure that, like Colin Kaepernick, now the word comes out, he's not going to sign with Seattle.

Well, you know, nobody's paying more than minimum right now. So unless you're willing to take a minimum contract, why would you go there? So nobody's paying minimum. And I think Barnage probably wants more than the minimum. But I think Barnage – I mean, if Barnage is patient and just sits and waits, he can catch the ball. He's not a great blocker. But he can do some things in the passing game that can help an offense. And I think certainly on a team, I think,

right now, people just look at their roster and they want to try to. This is the big bill person. If you sign a veteran guy and you have a young player that you kind of like to develop, okay? And then if you sign that veteran, that veteran becomes a progress stopper. He stops all progress from that young player being able to see if he can be a good player. And I think that's where teams get mostly concerned about. So I think that's the only thing holding up Barners.

I think there's nothing to do with blackball because, like I've said, many times, if you can play football well, and no matter what he's going to blackball you, because if you can get on the field, you can get on the field. Just quick note on the Cleveland Browns while we're up there. Brock Osweiler has been a pleasant surprise in Brown's camp. I love it. Are you happy? Wait a minute.

Wait a minute. Stop, stop now. Okay. Brock Osweller's been a pleasant surprise, and I've read that Kaiser, there's no one going to keep Kaiser from being the start. Are they going to have three starting quarterbacks? I hope so. Because Cody Kessler's having a good camp, too. I say we just line them up in the back fell.

We'll just do it. Like, you know, instead of having two running backs, we'll just have three quarterbacks back there. They'll decide who throws the ball every single time and we'll see who's the best. We'll figure it out on the field. That's what matters. You know, when we were at the Raiders, we used to have this thing called All Alameda, which meant if you played good in these OTA days and you look like you're going to be a great player, you could be All Alameda. But you know what happens to most of those Allalameda guys?

They never made it to the regular season. You know, like our All Alameda team never could make it to the regular season. And most of those guys, you know, we love this guy because he was there. But when the – this is football. It's a contact sport as much as we don't want to make it. So when the paths go on, if you don't play well, you're not going to make a team. So I would be real reluctant if I'm a fan reading about how great to say that's true. Yeah, this is unfortunately not a seven. They're also going to be on the aisle.

We'll make the all-hour media team. Yeah, let's do it. We'll start our own 7-on-7 league. We'll get Ice Q to buy it on that. We have Kaiser, we have Brock Oswald, who had the greatest Twitter quote I saw the other day is all he told everybody, just look at the tape, and you can see why he's a great player. I must be going to the wrong blockbuster. I must be going to the wrong blockbuster.

I'm just going to keep rewinding the tape to see if I missed anything. Going back through, trying to comb through it, see if I can find some good stuff. Because I believe in you, Brock. I want you to do well. I like six, seven quarterbacks. We'll see what happens. One of our favorite battles in training camp is the kicking battle down in Tampa Bay. They drafted Roberto Aguayo last year from Florida State.

He had a really bad season. He was 22 of 30. You're being kind. Yeah, that's being kind. And then they brought in Nick Folk to, add some competition. And then it came out. Dirk Cutter said that it's been a lot of tension in the kicking room. So is this the first time that a kicking battle was really going to be the most dramatic thing on Hard Knox this season? Because I'm excited if so.

To watch it. I still think Hard Knox missed a great opportunity by just putting a camera in the Giants wide receiver room and watch Brandon Marshall and O'Dell Beckham go out of it, especially since Beckham, you know, now that he's the highest-pay guy on Nike, I think, look, they need to put pressure on Aguroyo. They've got to make sure he can handle it. But it doesn't translate oftentimes until the games, and I think those are what's really going to matter. And you and I both know preseason games, there's no pressure on those kicks. Yeah. You know, so you're making a decision.

And the problem with Nick Falk is when you, if he makes your team, you're committing to him for the whole season. Because if he's on your opening day roster of the Saturday before the opening game, you guarantee him that salary for the year. So you can't really, to me, this would be a better competition with a guy who wasn't a vested Vett Roberto because then whoever made it, you could go back and forth if you wanted to. Once you go with the veteran guy, you're stuck with him. Yeah, that's never good.

Last thing that we have coming up, the big quarterback in Oakland that everyone's talking about, obviously Derek Carr went out last year. He's coming back. A lot of people are talking about his deal, his contract. We've seen a lot of guys hold out. He pretty much came out and said that he's not going to be doing that whole runaround. He said, if he has no deal by camp, then they just won't be talking about it. What kind of sign does that show his team?

And that also showed that the Oakland radios are really trying to get into win now, mentality while they're still in Oakland. Well, a couple contracts are the easier ones to do, because the numbers are right out there. I mean, you know, you see it pretty clearly. You can see the scale. Yeah. You can see the scale. A lot of this comes down to cash flow.

It comes down to a couple of other things than average per year. And, I mean, look, the hardest thing is because Kirk Cousins keeps getting this franchise number, those average goes up. So you're sitting there saying, well, he's better in Kirkson. The Mike Lennon deal comes through. So I think the Raidels will get this done. I think it's really going to come down to cash flow. I think it's going to come down to how they structure the deal more than what the average per year of the deal is.

And that usually gets done. And I think it will get done. I mean, look, the Raiders and what they – he's the guy that they want to be their quarterback. I think they'll get it done. And I think Carr's right. And I think Carr's right. Look, go through the summer. If they can't get it done, they'll get it done the off season because it's really just going to come down to structure. Do you think Carr deserves to be – you know – should he be –

I mean, Andrew Luck is obviously the highest-paid player in football, and so that means he's the highest-paid quarterback. Do you think Derek Carr deserves to be in that Andrew Luck territory of contracts? Or is that something that you let him do one year and make sure he's durable and then give him that big deal? I think there's a way to do that deal. I think you can give him Andrew Luck's contract. You can give him that deal, and then you could have ways where you can de-escalate

or escalate the contract. I think there's a thousand ways to do it. I think you have to reach a consensus on what the number is. And once you do that, then I think you can really move forward. But until you do that, you know, look, the guy's going to get it. I mean, quarterbacks, it's not a question whether it will play, then they'll get the money, because there's so few of them. It's the law of supply and demand.

Yep. Well, the market's still open. Jay Cutler's still out there, maybe. Maybe we'll have bigger stories and bigger fish to fry down the road. Lombardi, thanks a lot. This has been a great edition of GM Street. All right, Tate. Thanks, thanks for all your help.

Talk to you next week. Next week, we'll have one too, Tate. Yep, we'll be back. GM Street. We're back weekly. Next week. Let's do it. buddy thanks