The Ringer NFL Show - 'GM Street': The Championship and the Coaching Carousel (Ep. 217)

Episode Date: January 10, 2018

The Ringer’s Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier jump right into the College Football Playoff National Championship (01:00) before discussing Matt Nagy going to the Chicago Bears (32:00), the Giant coaching dilemma in New York (36:45), Jim Bob Cooter and the Lions (38:00), and Jon Gruden's return to the Oakland Raiders (40:45). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of GM Street is brought to you by Seekkeek, the best app for buying and selling tickets to sporting events, concerts, and more. For $20 off your first Seatkeek purchase on any game or sporting event, all you have to do is use promo code, Ringer NFL. Download the Seatgeek app or go right to seekgeek.com to get started today. Welcome to GM Street part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I am Tate Frazier. It is Tuesday afternoon. This will probably be going up on Wednesday afternoon. And I am joined by the esteem, Mike Lombardi. After a crazy Monday night game, we saw the national championship last night.

Alabama pulls off the win in overtime over the Georgia Bulldogs. First thoughts when you watch that game. I mean, it was a wild affair. My first thought is, God, thankful I live in Los Angeles. Because I would have never seen that game. Like, I know I'm old and I go to bed at 8.30. I get all that, right? But, I mean, like, there's no chance I would have been able.

First of all, I would have probably been working for a team or something. You've got to get up early the next morning. Like, I feel bad for people that can't really watch that game. I mean, it was hard to stay awake if you live on the East Coast to do it. And I know a lot of people probably didn't, but, you know, I thought it was great. It was truly what this whole, the last two years for me has been exactly what we've wanted, which is the two best teams, all due respect to Central Florida, you know, the two best teams playing for the national championship. And we saw a great game by two really good coaches, players that were, you know,

Mac Brown was at the game. You saw on their tape, there was enough five stars on that field to bring us some. smile to his face. And enough five stars outside that just came back to watch the game. I thought that was a cool thing between Alabama and Georgia. I mean, the Georgia sideline, you started going through it. Obviously, we saw Herschel Walker there in Bill Dooley. I mean, it's great to see two legends at the game that come out for the coin toss.

But then you go down the sideline, you know, you saw AJ Green, you saw Todd Gurley, all these Georgia guys on the sideline. You go to the Alabama sideline. You see Trit Richardson. You see, you know, as it pan through, it wasn't like they were focusing on these stars. But as you went back and forth, you're like, wow, these are two, you know, cream of the crop programs really facing off right here. Who handled the sideline passes? Like, was there, I mean, the sideline was packed.

Like, it was standing room only. I thought it was like, you know, in the nightclub and Goodfellows where they, you know, they got to move the table in front to get the guys there. That's what the sideline looked like. You got to, yeah, they had to duke somebody to get on the sideline. I feel bad if you're a three star and you try to get down to the sideline. There was no room for three stars. I bet Aaron Murray had a tough time getting a ticket down there.

He probably had to stand on like a stool to look over. He's like not tall enough to see the field, you know? What about Brody Croyal? Do you think he got a spot down there? I don't think so. Bro, do you stay in a stands? I mean, you'd have been better off. I mean, it was like, it was standing, like, I kept looking.

I'm thinking, could you imagine if Belichick was coaching one of these teams and he saw all these people on the solid? He'd have gone berserk. Yeah, I think you would have had a heart attack or at least kicked everyone out at one point, especially if it was halftime and they were down 13 to zero. I'm convinced. I'm not accusing anybody here at Dave Fraser, but I'm convinced somebody had to be duked to get, like, there was somebody.

You know the number one, you know, the most important person in, I learned this. I worked in Las Vegas from 1981, my first job to 1980. And the most influential person in Las Vegas is. Who's that? The fire marshal. Because he can walk in and close down any joint, right? So everybody wants to make sure that they get the maximum amount of people in the place and a little bit more, right? Keep it up to code.

Up and above code, right? And so he's getting duped constantly. Oh, you need two tickets to go see, you know, sink feet and Roy. Oh, sure, no problem. You know, come on in, you know? And so, like, to me, it looked like, I don't know who's in charge of the PR out on the sideline. But, like, oh my God, I can't even, like, it was impossible. Yeah, I feel bad for the SIDs that were in charge of getting all those media passes for everyone.

I think that would have been a big headache. And that kid that was having the raging moment on the sideline, like he could have just randomly punched somebody on the field. I can't believe that he not only had that moment. I mean, and he ended up having a great play on special teams after that. That was a big stop on the kickoff later in the game. But that big... Is he a five-star or three-star? Can we look that up right now, please?

I think he's a four-star. I actually looked it up last night. He's a four-star, which is always tough because you don't know. because a four-star could always end up being a five-star talent or they could just be a three-star talent. You're never sure it's right in the middle. But he has this big blow-up, and I'm thinking to myself, well, that guy's done for the night.

There's no way that Nick Sabin's letting that guy ever get back in the game. I almost tweeted out, like, send that guy into the locker room, please. Just like somebody would get him away. And then he makes that play. I'm like, I'm glad I didn't tweet that, you know? Makes this huge play, a game-changing play. Let's just talk about the game itself besides all the fanfare on the sidelines. Quickly, though, $2,300 was the average ticket price for this game.

I mean, I know that is averaged out with some of the tickets that are $50,000 in some of the suites and everything. But that's incredible. You put the game in the best place, the hotbed. I mean, those kids, like when they came out when Mac was out there and they did the internet, I'm thinking these kids have played high school games against one another. Like this is like in their blood, you know?

And so to me it's the perfect venue for the Southeast Conference Championship, if you will, which ended up being the national championship. So, I mean, they love college football down there. And I could see it. It's amazing how people, A, stayed up that late, B, spent that much money for tickets when, you know, you could stay at home and watch HG TV and feel really comfortable about it and listen to Herbie. It's like an MSG atmosphere, but it's for college football down in Atlanta. This game was filled with all. I mean, we got rivalries between the coaches for people that don't know.

Kirby Smart was with Alabama, defensive coordinator for a long time. He had Nick Saban are very close. Nick Saban has this weird ability to beat all of his former coaches. I don't know if it's because he knows what their tendencies are. I felt like Kirby late in this game kind of tried to get away from his own tendencies, not. to show his hand to Nick Sabin, and it kind of hurt him and kind of costumulating that game. Yeah, I thought the weirdest play of all was early in the fourth quarter on third and two, they went, they went wildcat. Like, they called it wild dog.

I was corrected when I said they went Wildcat. I apologize. It's Wild Dog, D-A-W-G. No one loves Ugga more than I did. I mean, they could have panned Ugga all the whole line. I love Bulldogs. I would have been happy with Uga. You know, especially Uga dressed in red, you know, like when I'm winning my next biscuit coming.

But anyway, they went, they went wild dog, and I. I'm thinking, wait a second here, this just doesn't, like, Fromm, I know their running back is great. The Michelle kid, is that how you say it? Yeah, Sony Michelle and Nick Chubb, but Nick Chubb was the one that was getting the not Michelle, which is Michelle's sort of the speedback, and Chub is more of the power back. Right, and look, their offensive line was struggling blocking inside. I mean, those Alabama inside guys were really good. But to me, like Fromm's ability to make a play on third down makes the defense have to defend run pass. When you go to Wildcat, you're just defending run, right?

So, like, the last thing you want to do to a Nick Saban defense is basically tip your hand. And when you take Fromm away from it, like, it's good for one play in the second quarter to kind of keep them off balance. But, like, after that, after they see it, you know they're going to adjust it. Whenever you play a coach of the quality like Nick Saban or, you know, any of those guys, when you run a play that they haven't seen before, you can't run that play again. Okay, so you can't run it. Like, I can remember we played Parcells at a playoff game. or a regular season game, and we had this fake trap inside. And we fake the trap, and we hit the tight end down the seam and got about 20 yards.

We tried to throw that play back in the third quarter. They picked it off naturally. You learn your lesson right there. So, like, to me, once you did it once, unless you do something completely different, they're going to coach it up well. And I think that that was a huge mistake. It gave the ball back. And then that's when Alabama came back and tied the game.

Or I'm not sure if they kicked the field goal or tied it. They kicked the field goal and then they tied the game on the touchdown. Then they tied the game. But so, like for me, I thought that was really, I thought Kirby was trying to outsmart himself there. And so that whole play, it comes back full circle to the first half. So it's 6-0 game. Georgia's staying ahead of the change for the most part of this game. Alabama's offense couldn't get anything going.

Hertz has 21 yards. He's three for eight. Everyone's wondering. And misses a touchdown. Yeah. I mean, they left 10 points on the field, right? They misses the double move to Ridley over there, right? And then the kid misses the field goal, which I feel bad for that kid.

I'm sure he's transferring to Tuskegee Institute. Papanastos. Yeah, I mean, that poor guy. You know, I mean, I'm glad he won a national championship. But, I mean, you could tell he was in no... He's to go back to Greece, I think. He needs to hide away for a few months. Maybe go to Santorini and then come back in three months.

I mean, we spent so much time figuring out where they were going to put the ball for the last kick before overtime. When I was thinking, I don't care where you put that ball. I don't think he's going to make this damn thing. Yeah, but I'm going to go back to the first half. So it's 6-0. Stay with me, yeah. 6-0, and we go down, and Georgia, they're attacking. So Fromm, they take them all the way down the field, and then they do the wild dog.

They come in, and they do a nice little fake on it. So Hardman, they get the sweet play. Hardman gets the pitch. He takes it in for the touchdown, 13-0 a halftime. And the wild dog works that time. It throws them off for a loop. You think it's going to be a power run. They run the sweep.

It gets Alabama all out of sorts. They go to halftime. Nick Saban's ass, you know, what's going on with the offense? It's sputtering at the moment. He says, it's not the quarterback position. We're going to figure this thing out and come back. So you're thinking yourself, okay, we're going to see Hertz in the second half. is the guy's been back-to-back title games.

It'll be fine. He's a veteran. We come back to the second half. Throw all that out. Tua comes in, a freshman quarterback. We're not sure who he is or what he's about. And he just starts, I mean, looks like Russell Wilson 2.0. He's running all over the place. We didn't even know we could run the ball.

Right. We just heard he had a cannon for an arm. Comes in, changes this whole game, changes the whole dynamics of the game. Georgia answers a couple of time, has a good pick on him. But every single time, he just seems to bounce back. And it goes back to the wild dog plays later in the game. When they did it in the first half,

they had a little wrinkle to it. And in the second half, they went completely conservative. They were scared not to have a turnover to change the game. It's the opposite of what the Falcons did against the Patriots. Instead of trying to attack and attack, they went completely conservative and tried to run clock and it came back to Biden. And with the quarterback change, I think that was fascinating. First of all, I don't know if Hurd had a concussion.

Some people think he may have. When you watch that game, right, to me, it was really clear. The only way that Alabama was going to be able to win that game was they were going to have to throw the football. They were not going to win that game with quarterback, runs. They just too many third downs. And so I thought Nick, what Nick did was make a great move because he had to, whether the kid had a concussion or not, but the only way he was going to win that game, because I was watching that game, I thought as bad as Alabama played in the first half,

I didn't get the sense that Alabama was out of it, you know? Like, I thought they were in it if they could just make a play in the passing game. I thought their defense was playing actually better. I thought Georgia was going to win the game because Fromm was the better quarterback, right? To me, those games come down to it. I didn't anticipate. I didn't know about it. I didn't know about the kid, but they said he was really good in practice and that he was threatening to transfer. Again, Lane Kiffin's going to play into this somehow, that Lane Kiffin was like thinking he could get him. Now, I'm sure Jalen heard probably tomorrow or the next day, he'll announce he's transferring to Florida Atlantic. But the reality here is that they had to do something with their

offense. There's no way they could go in there. And they did. I think they would gain over 400 yards in the second half? Yeah. And when you look at Tua and the offense in general with Alabama, Hurst did a great job. I mean, he was involved in the game. He was clapping. I mean, There's not a lot of kids that are going to act that way. To me, that's the definition of mental toughness is doing what's right for the team that might not be right for you. There it was right there. That was the classic example of mental toughness. And we saw Saban put him late in the game before the final field goal.

So we have a tie game. It's 20 to 20. Bama's trying to get to back to the center of the field. They didn't want to be in the left hash mark because apparently Papa Nastos just can't kick from the left hash. So they're going to the right side of the field. They put Hertz in the final play because he's going crazy on Tua. Two almost let the clock run out at one point. I know what was going on.

Right. Nick went crazy. Nick ran out to the field. I thought I was going to get a penalty going out there. So he puts Hertz back in. So that has to show you something that, I mean, Hurts to keep himself mentally engaged in the game where Sabin relies on him to come back in the game and to take that knee and set him up. They missed a kick, obviously. But just from a team standpoint, what does that do to your offense to say, I don't even know this to a guy? I don't even know this freshman. And now he's our quarterback in the national title game. Well, for me, my first reaction was watching him play is you can actually run an offense with this guy. Like there's things you can do with him. Like I could see him next year. I could see Alabama running boo. and naked's, and I could see them having some quarterback runs, but more, I could see him be more of a pro-style offense in terms of what they want to accomplish than they were with Hertz, because Hertz, it was all quarter.

It was single-wing. Essentially, that's what they were. They were single-wing offense. Now, with this kid, his ability to make throws, his ability to read and move and react, and his ability to what he did, like on the last play, look off the safety. I mean, those things are rare that I could see Alabama now finally having an offense. Like Kiffin, when he was there, they were just a bunch of trick plays. Okay, they...

It was the... Link, Kevin, I throw my hands up for the touchdown on the deep ball. Right. Just throw it up there. You know, like, and to me, that's Oklahoma's problem. Like, to me, Lincoln Riley's a really good coach, but they run too many. They don't have an offense. They just run trick plays.

And so when it's third and eight, you got to make a play, you need an offense. You just can't run a trick play. Like, you can't run a double reverse to pass here. And I think this kid, for the first time since I was texting a coach in the NFL last night, we're watching the game. and he knows both parties in this thing and we're like, how does Nick not have a five-star, all due respect to Mac, of quarterback?

Like, how does he not have, like, the best quarterback in the country? I mean, he recruits his ass off. He's got a pro-style offense. And it seems like the guys that he's pulled in that are, quote, unquote, the five-star number on quarterbacks, like Sims that comes in, they just don't quite have it. Yeah, like, they mis-evaluated them, right?

And that's typically not Nick either. Like, Nick, like, how can't they have a better, like, why isn't the NFL, like, at Alabama, like, they have, it's quarterback, you. It should be quarterback you, right? And so this kid comes off the bench in the first series, he goes three and out. And I'm thinking, nah, dang, is this kid really good? And of course, Herbie's already proclaimed him the second coming of Jesus Christ, you know, after ever- Nobody loves college football like Kirk Herb Street. Everything that anything happens in a game,

he just loses his mind. I was like, oh, God. Not the detour. So I'm watching the game and I'm getting annoyed because when Herbie was defending the interception that he threw when it was a run. Yes. And he decided, when they were all blocking and Herbie was like, it took him like through the commercial break to come back to it. I'm like, I can't take this anymore. It was offensive pass interference down the field. It really was. It wasn't called. So I'm like, okay. And then like, people are like, why aren't you watching the film room? Did you see the film room? So ESPN had this thing. So they had Cut Cliff and I knew they had a bunch of guys in there. Man, it was really good. Cut Cliff to me was everything people have told me about Cut Cliff because I don't

know, David, was really true. Smart, intellectual, thinking man's football. That whole thing was really good. Tom Lugan Bill was at the head of the table. It's like they had a pizza party. They had Sumlin in there. It was really good. To me, it just showed you the vast difference between what we're listening to and what's really happening on the field. Like, to me, there was a huge difference. And so I thought that was really, I think ESPN to dessert. I mean, to me, that's a pregame show.

Nobody was dressed in suits. Nobody had, you know, like everybody was just in there talking. And I thought it was good because when you get a lot of coaches in that setting, everybody wants to prove who's the smartest guy in the room when that yet last night nobody did. So I thought that was really good. And with Lugan Bill, it's just all football guys. I mean, Georgia Tech quarterback's in there with you. It's not like a media host that's in there with you.

It's everyone just talking football. He was just, everybody was just talking ball, and they were analyzing the plays and how a play broke down and how it didn't. I thought it was really, I mean, if you wanted to learn a game and people are like, you need to watch this. And so I did. And I appreciated people telling me that. So, but when I was watching a game, Tate Fraser, I'm thinking, like, this kid, once he made, he made that third down scramble, where he made about four people miss. That was what changed the game because it could have been back-to-back-to-back three and out.

And maybe they go back to Hertz if that happens. I think they might have gone. If Hertz didn't have a concussion, I think they might have gone back to Hertz if he doesn't make that third down. And he got them down there. And I think that drive, they got a field goal or did they get a touchdown on that drive? You got a touchdown on that drive. That drive. And he kind of got his rhythm going a little bit.

And then Dayball started calling those fake runs and throwing the ball behind the backers. And then, you know, he made some really good throws. So that kind of got their rhythm. And then Georgia answers with that incredible drive that they had on the big touchdown pass. Yeah, the 80-yard touchdown pass. I mean, that's when you thought the game was going to get open back up. and then they come back down. They get the 80-yard touchdown.

They get an interception, and it looks like it's all Georgia football. They've weathered the storm of Alabama. And then first play, we have a screen pass. It gets tipped at the line by Alabama. They get the ball right back, and they're back and they're back and driving again. And they kick the field goal there.

They kick the field goal there, and then they come back, and Georgia doesn't convert a couple key. Like, I've said this to you all. That's when they go wild dog and sort of lock, pack it in. Look, I don't care what anybody says. Those third and twos and big games are always going to come down to bite you in the ass.

And it bit Georgia in the ass. wild dog, whatever you run, don't complete this pass. You know, to me, and then you give too many opportunities to a good team like Alabama to get a chance to come back. You know, to me, it's really remarkable. But the fourth down call, you know, to me, that was remarkable by Alabama. To pull that kid, pull that off. Because if he throws the ball in the flat right there, it's a first down, maybe he doesn't

score. But he's looking for the double slant on the other side, and he holds it and he waits for the guy to clear up and makes a great throw. That was really impressive. You mean the Ridley touchdown, right? Yeah, the Ridley touchdown. There is no way. That's what I mean when I say Russell Wilson, because the guy goes to his left. There's nothing there. As he throws the ball, he's falling down. It looks like he's throwing it to another guy.

And somehow, you know, Ridley comes back across, you know, it was a great play by Ridley to keep the play alive, comes back to his quarterback, makes this amazing catch. His first touch on the day, gets things going for that Alabama offense and obviously ties the game up. But, I mean, that's throwing it up in no man's land. And somehow the magic of this kid, it works out and they tie the game and we're going to go to overtime. And that was a classic New England play. So they went, they had the back in the back field, and they went empty. And the back went out, and the linebacker went out with them, right? So now they kind of got a read. They got what they called the pre-snap read.

They got a look. And so that play was the outside back, who's the running back, was going to run vertical. And then the inside receiver was just going to run the flat to get the first down. And they had a double slant on the back side. For some reason, the kid looked at the double slant. Well, there was three on two over there. There's no way you could have thrown that. The middle of the field was too tight.

And if he would have thrown the ball to the flat right now, it's the first down, he waits, he gets pressure, and he moves, and then he makes that throw. And I'm thinking, when he let that thing go, I'm thinking, there's no way. And all of a sudden, Ridley comes streaming it all in the field and catches the ball. Yeah, and there was three or four Georgia guys. I mean, I think number 20 on Georgia went right through his fingertips. I mean, it was an amazing play. And then we come down to get the misfield goal, obviously. Alabama fans at that point are losing their minds.

They're going to go to overtime to take on the dogs in Georgia, in Atlanta. Do you think Alabama started recruiting a kicker at that point? immediately? I don't know. Ed Madowitz, the player personnel director at Alabama, was like, okay, I'm going to start calling every kicker in the country right now. Yeah, because Nick Saban's going to be on my head after into this game. I felt bad for Papanasso's a kicker for Alabama because they kept showing him on the

sideline. And, you know, we got starting running backs coming up to him who have never probably talked to the guy in his life telling him, hey, it's all on you, man, just make this thing happen. There should be a rule if you're a kicker. You know, if I got a game winning kick, nobody come and talk to me. I need to be in front of the net by myself. I need to clear my head because he had four. 14 or 15 people come over and congratulate him before he took that kick.

And he shanked it. I mean, it wasn't even close. I mean, it was bad. The best kick he had all night was the first field goal he made, you know, that they had the legal procedure penalty on. I mean, that was the best kick he had. Even the one he made was like a duck hook. Oh, he had some extra points that if he was playing the NFL, it wouldn't have gone in.

They would have lost the game. It's amazing. I mean, it really was amazing. But then we go to overtime, which we all knew it was going to happen. I mean, at that point, what are you thinking? I'm thinking it's a home game for Georgia. We've already seen them in overtime. They've already been here before.

Alabama has lost their chance, right? I mean, how do you bounce back from a misfield goal, a chip shot to win this game? That's what everyone's thinking. Georgia has this terrible possession, horrible possession. You think if Georgia wins the toss there, they win the game? Because I think that really was like, wow. You know, that kid, that kid, whoever called tails twice, right?

They won it twice. You always call tails. That's my rule of thumb. You always called tails. on those. If I'm playing any video game, any, any, I always call tails. Somehow it works. Don't let your secrets out date, Frasier. People will take you up. That's true. That's true. Yeah, you're covered up. Gamer tags playing people in Mad. They're going to beat me now.

So that happens. They get the ball. Georgia has a terrible possession. My question to you is, they went, so they have these three running backs. They have Chubb, who is, you know, the leader of their team. Chubb's great. Consider their number one back. They have Michelle, who I think maybe probably more. How big is Michelle? He's like 6-1. But he's over 200 pounds. Yeah, he's like 2-10. He's got an NFL outside-inside game to him. He looks like Peterson, sort of.

He really, I mean, to me, like, I don't know. He's another level. But they had gone away from him, and then they had Swift, who's more of their, like, we need someone to block and help from in the backfield and maybe give him a safety blanket coming out. And they go Chubb. Chub's doing nothing. They're running these little sweet plays with Chubb. He's just getting killed because the Alabama's stringing him out and they're getting there.

They don't use Michelle. Michelle's the one who won the game against Oklahoma. So sometimes when you have, like, the amount of value they have in their running back position, It seemed like they got away from, we have to please Chubb in this moment, and they got away from Michelle. And I just, from your perspective, how do you balance that? I think this. I wrote this in the book. I was just talking about Belichick, and this is so true, and I think this happens in games,

is Einstein had this theory about intelligence, right? And so he breaks it down into five categories. So the first category is, obviously, it's, you're smart. Okay, the second category is you're intelligent. The third category is you're brilliant. The fourth category is you're a genius. And the fifth category and the most important of all, the highest ranked, is you're simple, right? And we lose sight of that at times.

We lose sight of that because sometimes we think we can outsmart ourselves by becoming a genius. When if we just keep this thing simple, remember the saying, if we don't have any tendencies, we can't be any good. And I think that that's what you have to try to do. convince your team to do that. And unfortunately, I think Georgia got away from that. They try to become a genius. When you don't need to be a genius, you just need to be simple and do your thing

because you were doing it good enough. I mean, Fromm's a really good player. Like, I think Fromm, I mean, I know there's a bunch of hooplau about Sam Darnold, but Fromm is he a redshirt freshman or a true freshman? He's a redshirt freshman. I mean, as a redshirt freshman, to me, he's really impressive. And he's only going to get better.

Like, I'm going to be like, holy heck, that guy's going to be great. Yeah. And I think they got away from them. They did. And they just got away from, I don't know, it felt like they had, like I was saying earlier, I think Smart was trying to outsmart himself. I think he didn't want to show his hand because he knew what Saban expected him to do,

so he tried to do something different when really, they couldn't stop Michelle. And I saw a lot of, I have a lot of friends that went to Georgia and a lot of Georgia fans. You almost went to Georgia. Yeah, exactly. So your mom and dad knocked some sense. Yeah, they were like, you're not leaving the state. We're not paying for that. But, you know, everyone was saying, I mean, we're Sony.

Where's Sony? You know, he's our guy. You know, we love Chubb, but it's just not the moment. Like, sometimes you just got to pass it on to the guy with the hot hand or the guy that can't stop. He's just a change of pace back for them. And I don't know. It would be sad to see him get away from it. I think it comes down to being simple.

And I think it's part of the job of the head coach is, and this is what makes Belichick simply so good, is he says, hey, this is a blank game. Like, this is a Michelle. And you recognize that immediately. You know, Chub's a good player, but this game ain't for Chubb. right you know Nick Saban recognized that too like he saw not running over anybody on Alabama's D-line right exactly or in the second nobody on that defense yeah so you got to do what what exactly you think will help you win and you got to know the game I mean you got to get a

feel for the game I mean people say Nick made a great move in benching the quarterback my question is for you is like why wasn't that kid getting reps during the season like I don't remember off the top of my head the blowout wins that Alabama had. But I know, why didn't he play the second half of the Fresno State game? Why didn't he play, you know, some of these games that they just blew teams out? Like, to me, he should have had more reps than he had. Yeah.

No, I mean, that makes sense. I think it's a weird thing with that team with Hertz and Hertz being on this quote-unquote mission to get back to this title game. And, you know, he had the, you know, they kept talking about the phone banner. Yeah, yeah, with the picture from the last year's game. And I don't know what he's going to have this year. I mean, I guess him's smiling on the sideline. Yeah. He's going to go to Florida Atlantic this year.

I mean, you can book it, book it, Dano. I mean, he's going to Florida Atlantic. I mean, like, I don't know, like, to me, like, as a head coach, Nick's brilliant. Nick's one of the great hit. But is that play impossible from Sabin? Is that you don't want us to know what kind of talent we have at quarterback behind Hertz? No, I think there's a little bit like with the Tom Brady thing, you got so much invested

the guys won so much, it's hard to alter and take a right turn, you know? Two losses in his career. You know, it's kind of hard to do it. But I think as a coach, you have to look at your team and say, you know, at some point, we're going to have to throw the ball to beat somebody. And like if you're Jacksonville, right, Doug Morone knows deep down. At some point, we're going to have to throw the ball to beat somebody.

He probably knows Bortles ain't going to do it, right? So you've got to know that and you've got to prepare your team. Like, everything is time management. So how much more time do we have? Like, I'm surprised as brilliant as Nick is and as smart as he is as a coach. I'm surprised he didn't go to that kid earlier at some point during, the season and get him some reps and kind of, you know, now maybe it would have hurt hurt because it would have seen, he would have seen the writing on the wall. But they say at practice,

he was really good and that he was talking about transferred. So. But they said before the Clemson game, too, for people that didn't keep up with the pregame stuff, I mean, they hinted that Tua may play in the Clemson game. Oh, they did. They said if Hurtz gets behind the eight ball against his Clemson defense and they need someone to throw the ball, they'd put Tua in and do a two quarterback thing. And so when I heard that, that's a... So he had, see, I'm told he had a lot of reps at practice, whereas when I was still on the Herbie side of the broadcast, it was made like he had no reps at all, right? Harts was getting at all.

But then I have some people down there at Alabama tell me he was getting a lot of reps. He just wasn't getting game reps. So they were getting him ready. I think obviously when he made that move, I don't know if he thought it was going to be as successful as it turned out, but I think he knew that if he had to throw the ball, it was only going to be that kid. Plus you got no tape on the guy. And he's just making simple reads.

I mean, when he looks off the safety and throws the game-winning touchdown pass. Well, back up. Hold on. That play to me was like, that's one of the most unbelievable plays I've ever seen. Like it's, what was it, second in 25? It was, yeah, exactly. They lost 16 yards on a long sack, which the one thing you can't do in college football and overtime is get out of field goal ring.

Right. You got to at least get the points, especially you're down 23 to 20 at this point. He takes a massive set. And Fromm did that. That kid with the glasses, whoever that kicker is. Blakenship, yes. Rodriguez, as Belich would say, put him on a pro board because he's going to playing for some pro team. That kid was impressive.

Yeah, you got some specs. Can he get like better glasses? Tate? Can we like do like, can we think he likes it? Can we promo like something on GM Street to help him get like a GM? Well, I think what he should do is get a visor, you know? Like a black visor so you can't even see, but he has the glasses on underneath. He looks like Charlie Sheen in Major League, done he? Exactly.

He does. He does. The rec specs. They're coming back. They need to. It's big for the 80s. So Favre takes that sack and I'm thinking, God, how do you? I'm loving you as much as anything, but you can't take that sack, right? Right? And then that kid battles them out with the incredible field goal. But didn't you get the sense when Alabama got the ball? They were going to score a touchdown.

I mean, yes. Everything has taught us to feel that way, right? We watched Alabama win all these games. This is the fifth title that Saving is now won there. But in my head, when he took the big sack, I was like, Georgia is going to win this football game. Because I thought it's going to come down to Papin Astos again for like a 50-yarder. He's not going to be able to match it. Blankin-ship's going to be a hero.

Yeah, I thought it was going to be well. he can't make the field goal. And then when they got the sack, I'm thinking, holy heck. Yeah. Like, and then. I think that's what happened in the Georgia defense. I think they got that big sack.

They're all looking at each other because that play happened like that. Like, if they lined right back up and ran that Seattle play, which is just a four vert and he looked off the one safety, which, I mean, I don't know the kid's name that that gets baited on that. But you got all the help on this side. Yeah, they were playing covered.

You got safety help over here. To me, you almost should have been in cover four. You shouldn't have been in two there. Like, to me, like two, like if they throw the ball in the flat, bless them, right? We'll rally and make the tackle.

But the one thing we can't do is get, you can't be deep. You can't get beat over the head against situational football. I mean, you just can't get beat. It's easy to second guess that. But at that point, you've got to say yourself, we can't give up a big play. We've got to back off and play it. Well, it also goes back to you don't know who the guy is playing quarterback. If it's Hurts playing quarterback right there, there's no way they're running Seattle

and throwing a deep ball. You know, they're probably just trying to get back in field goal range. I mean, the kid made a great throw, too. Yeah. I mean, the kid made a great throw. And that was a freshman who caught that ball as well. I mean, they were talking about, like, before I transferred over to the film room, they were talking about the backup left tackle number 70, who's some freshman, like,

he was just, they picked him up off the street. Look, I don't know four, three, five. That guy's a pro player. I can tell you, I can tell you, that four more years of college. Like, I can tell you that guy is going to play pro football. All right. Yeah, great game. I don't know who the other guy was and how good he is, whether he's, I didn't study.

I watched him, like, that guy's a pro player. Put him on a pro board. Like, I don't understand. Like, sometimes, like, like, like, sometimes, like, sometimes, the kids that are on the bench in college might be better than the only thing they lack is experience, right? Plus, he's been practicing every single day. It isn't like they haven't practiced the guy. And sometimes when you just throw a guy like Tua who seems just like, he couldn't even talk about the moment.

All I could talk about was the play. Yeah, God. All I could talk about was God was God. And the actual play itself. I mean, I got to get me some of that God too now. I mean, he was like, I got to think God. I got to think God. They ran covered too because I got, I looked off the safety.

It was like, just say, I'm excited to have won the national championship. What was he saying about his mom and dad will get mad at him because he was saying. something about God? That was kind of an interesting line. I don't know. But I think the kid made a great play. I think Sabin, you know, this whole thing about, I know some people think that Sabin's near the end of his career and that Alabama does it.

I mean, that program, wow. I mean, that's going to be hard to beat. I mean, what are Sabin? This will be a last thought before we move on to the NFL stuff. But with Nick Saban, the guy wins six national championships in college football. Ties Bear Bryant. Tys Bear Bryant. I mean, he's the, I mean, he's the Michael Jordan of college football.

football at this point. I mean, he's, I don't know where he stands. I think if you're an Alabama fan, I texted one of my buddies last night and I said, if you had to choose Bear or Sabin, he's like, it's Sabin all day for me. You know who should get really some credit for this for Nick Saban winning six national championships? And I think it's really... Mike Shula for being so bad? No, I think it's an unsung hero. I think the team doctor of the Miami Dolphins who failed Drew Breeze on the physical, which then caused Nick Sabin to go to Alabama. I think this guy should be literally he should have a plaque on the campus. We should figure out if he went to Alabama.

No, I don't know his name. It's the team doctor of Miami because Sabin loved Wayne Hizenga, the owner of the Miami Dolphins at the time. He loved them. Great guy. I had many conversations with Sabin about that. He loved them. And that doctor who failed Drew Brees,

I was thinking about that doctor on Sunday, too, when Breeze was banging a ball all over the place. That guy there, I think Alabama owes that guy a plaque on the campus. Get him a statue. Get him a Bear Brian statue. It'll be Bear Saban. But see, here's the perfect example of here's the guy who made a decision that affected the franchise that we don't even know what his name is. It's amazing.

It's all a ripple effect. All ripple effect. That's crazy. That's what we need to do. Anybody who knows who the team doctor failed, please let us know. Quick break to get a word from our sponsor. January means three things. Cold weather, the NFL playoffs, and The Bachelor.

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Tell the bachelor's super fan in your life to subscribe to Bachelor Party on Apple Podcasts. Spotify, Art 19, SoundCloud, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's talk about some coaching things that are going on. Day today. Yeah, coaching changes. John Gruden's big press conference today. Before we get into the big Gruden, the grinder himself, let's talk about a quick one.

The Chicago Bears hire Matt Nagy coming from the Kansas City Chiefs, an Andy Reid disciple, a guy that knows the offense, a guy that can come in and possibly help this Trubisky Cohen, this young core of offensive guys with the Bears. Just naggy that hire, you know, what does that do for the Bears? I think it tells you a couple things if you're a Bears fan. First of all, they want to keep Vic Fangio. Now, we're recording this Tuesday, you know,

one or two o'clock, L.A. time. 11 o'clock LA time, 2 o'clock East Coast time. You know, my belief is they will keep Vic. I could be wrong, but they made this higher because this is really trying to steal the Rams infrastructure. So you get Nagy to come in and coach the quarterback. I'll touch on that. You keep Vic to run the defense, which they've been drafting players for and building that. So they want to keep the continuity there.

Nagy gives them a chance to allow your bulls. Mitchell Trabisky, the pride of North Carolina, to run an offense that would be friendly for him in this sense. So when Andy Reid left Philly and went to Kansas City, he traded for Alex Smith. And he installed, and I think this is the brilliance of Andy Reed, is he installed an offense that was more Urban Meyerish. Okay. So it was Urban Myers, Utah offense that Alex Smith ran effectively with the West Coast variation on it. So it's what I called West Coast College. Okay.

And that's what they run in Kansas City. West Coast College, a lot of run-pass options, all that stuff, that made Alex Smith effective. And I think if Ryan Pace, I think what Ryan Pace saw was his success as a general manager is going to come down to Trabisky, right? No ways around it. If he hires Josh McDaniels, okay, Josh McDaniels after about a year of Mitchell Trabisky not learning half of the New England Patriot playbook. He's already looking elsewhere.

He's saying, get me out of here. And then Pace is out of work, okay? That's no matter how much they agree at the process. press conference, everything's good, that's going to end badly, right? So even though if your pace, even though you know McDaniel's the best offensive coach, he's not the best coach for what you have in place right now. So he played it safe. He just took the two iron out and played it down the middle of the fairway and hopes Nagy

can do this for the quarterback. And maybe he can. And maybe Mitchell can run this West Coast College offense effectively. They've got running backs that can run. Their offensive line is better than Chicago. Chicago's offensive line is better than Kansas City, so they can do that. Their skill players on the outside aren't very good, but neither are Kansas cities other than Tyree Kill, you know, who's a unique player.

So, you know, they need Kelsey, whether it's Adam Sheen, I don't know, but they're going to need an outside guy to threaten the defense. I'm sure Pace thinks it's Kevin White, who he drafted. So, you know, we'll see. He's always been hurt. But I think for me, this was about situational fit more than it was. I got the best coach. And everyone around that Bears organization, it seemed like Fangio was a guy.

They wanted to bring someone in to keep Fangio there. And if Nagy's a guy that keeps him in-house, I think that's a win for the way. And I think they're going to pay Nick, and they're going to basically say, hey, you know, Vic, you're the head coach of the defense. I mean, this is the Wade Phillips for Sean McVeigh, right? So I think, and if that works, I think the key is going to be how good is Trubisky and can he actually do it? And I think Pace did a smart thing because if you hire McDaniels, there's no way, I can promise you, there's no way that Trubisky was going to be able to go through the entire New England system and run it. It would have

handicapped, it would have made McDaniels less of a coach. This might make Nagy a little bit better. Will it be the best higher? I don't know. I think getting Vic in there is going to prove to be the best thing that they could do. I call it the Remember the Titans formula. You know, when they had Yose coaching the defense and Boone coaching the offense.

They're both like separate entities that are doing their own thing. They're talking junk back and forth. Why don't you get your defense to make a stop? Why don't you get your offense score a touchdown? I think that's the NFL today. I think that's what we're looking at. And now we hope that Matt Nagy took all of the great things that Andy Reid does at Kansas City, but left the game management part of the book back there. Time management.

Hopefully that wasn't Nagy the whole time management, time management, whatever it is. But, you know, look, and somebody else said, who was this competition? Well, I know this for a fact. Indianapolis yesterday was interviewing another coach. I don't know who it was. Maybe I do. Maybe I don't. But they were interviewing another coach, okay?

And so they weren't on the Nagy train. I don't know if Arizona was on the Nagy train and I don't know the Giants weren't on it. So people look that he made this hire because he wanted to beat the competition. I don't think he did. I think he made this hire to make sure he could get Vic. Like he needed a head coach in place

before he let him out of the building. And let's talk about you mentioned the Giants. I just want to quickly touch on them with Gettelman in that whole situation. Steve Wilkes, defensive coordinator for the Carolina Panthers, a guy that those players love Steve Wilkes. I mean, there's a lot of guys that are going to free agency that if you were to go to the Giants,

they would probably be inclined to try to go up there to New York, to play with Gettelman and Wilkes again. He gets the interview with the Giants. I think today or maybe even yesterday he had the interview. Is that a fit that you see in New York, or are they still looking for a big name guy? I mean, it's interesting because John Mara is doing a lot of phone calls behind the scenes calling about candidates.

I know Gettelman's in charge of the hire, but I really think this is John Mara with Gettlement hiring. I don't think it is. I think they would ideally like to hire an offensive coach. I think Josh McDaniels would be high on their list if they could get them. don't think they can because I think the structure doesn't fit Josh very well. That being said, I think John Mara has ideas about what's wrong with his corporation. He has an understanding that he's stuck in the 80s, yet he just doesn't want to make any changes. And when he brought

Gettelman in, he clearly wasn't going to make, they're going to go status quo. And, you know, Gettelman has all the authority to make the decision on players. That's going to preclude getting somebody. I think Wilkes is probably somebody, the guy that they could hire. But I know John Marra is making a lot of phone calls right now. I don't know if they've reached a conclusion on anybody. I think they're, I know who they would like to get. I'm not sure they can. Yeah, quickly, we're going to go back to the NFC North, the Detroit Lions. They're in a similar situation. We talked about coordinators. They want to keep Jim Bob Cooter. They want to keep Jim Bob Cooter. They don't necessarily want to make him the head coach, but they want to keep him on

staff. Stafford says he wants to have him on staff, Marvin Jones. I mean, that receiving court wants to have Jim Bob Cooter back in the building. So they're trying to find a guy on the defensive side of the football to do the same thing where you coach defense, I coach offense. Matt Patricia is a name that's come up a lot with Detroit. Yeah, I was told Monday, What's today? Today's Tuesday? I was told Sunday night that Matt had the job. I mean, I think it's just a matter of whether they actually cross the T's and dot the eyes. But it sounds like that Matt has the job.

And Matt will be the head coach of the Lions and less barring some unforeseen thing. And that gives them the ability to keep Jim Bob Cooter. I think what Bob Quim wants more than anything is he wants some of the New England system, right? He wants some of the New England system. He wants defense to run through New England. He wants somebody he's comfortable with in terms of personnel. And then he also wants to make his quarterback happy, too, and by keeping Jim Bob Cooter, and then maybe having somebody else around the offensive staff.

So to me, I think that job's filled, even though it's not technically filled with a press conference. Should we talk about the Cardinals? Okay, before we talked about the big fish is John Gruden, and we're just saving it for the last thing. That's the entree. We'll do one more appetizer. We get the Arizona Cardinals. No, I don't have a read on this one. I know they interviewed Brian Flores from the Cardinals.

I know they interviewed Matt Patricia, Brian Flores from the Patriots. They interviewed Matt Patricia, Mike Muncheck. I know they want an experienced head coach, a guy who's been in the chair before. Maybe it's Munchek. I don't know. I'm not getting a lot of information out of there. I'm not hearing names that they're in love with. But I would suspect fairly soon they're going to have to make a decision, whether it's Munchek

or maybe after these games this weekend. Because there's really all this talk about having competition for the coach, I don't think there is a lot of competition. I think Indianapolis kind of has maybe narrowed their down of one or two guys, Arizona, but they're different than Arizona is one or two guys. and they're probably different than the New York Giants, one or two guys. And it's a different job to walk into with the Cardinals. I mean, they've always gone for, you know, the Wizz and Hunt types of guys that have been in the league for a long time, veteran type guys.

But you come in, you don't have Carson Palmer anymore. You're not sure what happens with Fitzgerald, even though I think he said he is going to come. Basically, it's an open book there, and you're not really sure what you're going to get. Yeah, I think it's going to be an interesting. I think it's a hard job, take trade. I really do. I think it's a hard job. I think their expectations are higher.

Especially if you look at that division. I mean, you got Russell Wilson there. Obviously, you got the Rams or reserting Rams. And then the 49ers are coming back with your boy, Jimmy GQ. Yeah, I mean, you know, Jimmy G. He might be the best quarter. I mean, we'll go there. Who knows? Maybe Jimmy GQ signs with the Cardinals.

Maybe they don't get him back. I would suspect there's no way they're letting Jimmy GQ out of that building. No way. Maybe I would say her cousin signs with the Cardinals, but not Jimmy GQ. That's right. It could be an opportunity for cousins to go to the Cardinals. That would fit. The moment we've all waited for.

Yes, the grinder. He now can be his own Gruden Grindr, if he were to give out his award. I'm excited for the team. Do you think they'll do hard knocks there? next year? I could definitely see them trying to sell that. Yeah.

Maybe the first year in Las Vegas, they do that. Oh, they could do Gruden back and then they could do Gruden in Las Vegas, too. They could, like, you could get two years out of Grudon. They just call it Gruden goes to Vegas.

Yeah, Gruden goes to Vegas. A little reality show that get him from his house. Oh, I'm so excited to go down to Las Vegas. So I saw you were watching, you're doing a little prep work. I really appreciate it. Doing a little prep work,

watching the Gruden grinders with Derek Carr. This is Gruden's quarterback camp. He always, for the past few years on the ESPN. He's loved every quarterback. He's loved every quarterback. He said they're all going to be winners, and he can't wait to watch him win championships. Have we put together the list of all the guys that he's kind of coached? Like, if I was in the, if I was in the AFC West, okay, I would probably have somebody working on this, maybe two people. I would work on everything that's ever been written said by John, on every single player, and kind of keep a portfolio on everything that he knows, especially on these quarterbacks that he's worked out, to kind of get a sense of maybe what he's thinking about doing when he gets to Oakland. Well, and he's got guys, I mean, you know, even like a Paxton Lynch, I think it's been on this quarterback camp. Did he like Paxton Lynch? I think he did. I think he did.

And you just go down the list and it's like, wow, he was in camp with him. So he knows a little bit like James is one that I remember vividly because, you know, he made James go up to the Whiteboard. But I don't think people realize, right? There's the one that does these camp and then there's the real John Grut. Like, I don't think people realize this. No, they think they all think it's like, you know, it's like sort of like a John Madden. You know, there's the video game John Madden and the coach John Madden. Everyone has this, you know, the media entity is what they believe.

even, not the coach himself. With Gruden and Derek Carr, I think the interesting part about his QB camp when I was watching it, he talked about David Carr a lot. He's like, David Carr's at all your games at Fresno State. He's right by your side, looking like an actor, you know, watching you, you know, play football. Are you a quarterback like David Carr, which, I mean,

if you're Derek Carr, you're trying to get drafted. You're not going to say, yeah, I'm a bus like my brother. You're not going to say that. But I think earlier what Gruden was asking, are you tough? Uh-huh. That was his way of saying to you, because everybody thinks David Carr wasn't tough, So Gruden's trying to find a way to ask, are you tough? And, you know, I mean, it's going to be interesting to see how this all.

I think this is a fascinating thing that's left. There's two fascinating things that are going to happen in Oakland with this press conference today. Gruden's going to talk about how he's going to get along with Reggie McKenzie and how he loves Reggie. Okay. That, to me, has disaster written all over with a capital D. Okay, like, to be John Gruden's personnel guy, it's a unique, you've got to have a unique personality. You've got to be able to handle his ability to be so volatile. in terms of players because the John Gruden, the Will Rogers we saw on TV weekly,

that ain't John Gruden. Like, he'll want to fire every player immediately after. You know, like, get rid of this guy, get rid of that guy. That guy's good, you know. And so the GM has to have a sense of patience and confidence to not react to every movie makes. That's going to be difficult. And that team is built on John Gruden like, okay?

And so that's going to. And then the second part is how he handles the God relationship with Carr. Because it's a factor, right? Like, we could kid about, you know, that Tui talking about how he wanted to thank God. But we're kidding, right? Like, God is in that kid's life, he believes it. And it's really strongly in Carr's life to the point where the reason he left, he got drafted later in the draft is because people were worried he really wasn't in love with football that the ministry might have been more important than actually going after football. So I think those are going to be two fascinating things.

And how he addresses that at the press conference day, I think you're going to be, like, whatever he says today. Okay, divide by three, and you know it's not going to, you know. And Derek Carr, at the end of the season, I think the last game I remember watching his press conference, and they asked him what, you know, what it would mean for someone to walk into that Raiders building. And he said, there's going to be a lot of dogs that are ready to fight, I think it was the quote that he said. And, you know, the reporter, like a great journalist should, followed up and said,

well, where have the dog's been the whole season? Yeah. And then he was kind of stumped for a second. It's like he didn't expect to come back to that. And I think that's what Gruden's going to have to fight a little bit. I mean, a little bit of we felt we were coordinated and now we're back to the mean. I mean, he's got to have to light of fire on a bunch of these guys. And I think Carr is one of the main ones.

And a lot of them are well paid. So the offensive line is well paid. I mean, the Raiders have paid some players to get him in there. And he's going to have to start. First of all, John has such a, there's such a two different Johns. I mean, there's John that wants veteran players that know what to do, right? And then there's John that always wants these talented young players. So there's that conflict going on internally.

And he uses this, and I say this with tremendous respect to John, he uses this as a way to motivate himself, right? He wants to motivate himself. So if he convinces himself, the players think that it's him that's moving the ball, that's how he gets up in the morning and he motivates himself. So I don't think he truly means a lot of what he says. So that's why I say he got divide by three. And you've got to know that sometimes what he's saying isn't true. I remember having a conversation when he left Oakland with the guys that were in Tampa. And I'm like, you are going to be about to witness the hardest job in the world because you're going to have to try to balance this.

And it's not going to be easy for you because he's going to be critical of the players you're bringing in when that's just way he motivating himself. And I think Carr is going to have to handle that too. And I don't know what car's innate toughness is. Plus, I don't know what that organization's toughness is in terms of their players. Like they're not in shape, which is hard to do, right? They're not well, they're not fundamentally well coached. It's going to take some time. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, at least you have some talented guys. I mean, obviously, Cooper had a really down season this year. Crabtree's a guy. Yeah, but Crabtree's not. I mean, there's so many things that are going to change. Like, if I was a team competing against them, like I would tell, like what I always did in the NFL is, and this is an Al Davis thing, is anytime there's a coaching change, you always take those teams and you always make sure that you have done a complete job in terms of breaking those team down, study those, right? So, okay, so during the season, you have 31 teams, you study, you write reports on every player. On the teams that make coaching changes, you basically, as the personnel director, you take those teams, right?

So I would take the 10 or 6, 6, 17, and make sure I knew those teams better than I knew my own team, because they're going to start getting rid of players just because they're from somebody else's- It's a new regime. It's a new regime. It's not because the player's no good. Get them out of here. I don't like that kid. I like the way he looked.

And if you know those players, you can capitalize on some of this and really take advantage. of it. And if I was in the league, that's what I would do because the Raiders are going to dump some guys because they don't fit John, which they should do, right? But that doesn't mean they're bad players. Yeah. And the last thing they Gruden said on the QB camp with Derek Carr is, let's go win some championships. And I don't know if that was foreshadowing that he knew he was going to come back. Do you think that's funny, funny that he admitted to Derek Carr that he had the job then when he wouldn't admit to Sean McDonough that he had the job? Well, I think that comes back to personal relationships. I don't think he wanted Bigdunner to know anything. That's sort of like

someone's not your friend and they're asking you all these personal questions, you just keep it vague. I think that's a, you know, Gruden treated it like that. He was like, yeah, maybe. I don't know. I mean, I love the fact that, A, they had a press conference called on Tuesday, and then B, 10 minutes. He wasn't even in the car driving to the airport that the Raiders released that he's our head coach.

I think he said right as soon as the game wraps, just put it out there to the world. Yeah. Good stuff by John Gruden. Before we get out of here, anything else, we're going to be back to our Friday focus to talk about the Saturday and the Sunday games. Any final thoughts? No, in fact, I think we got Mick coming to town. The Jets are off this week.

So, Nick, maybe we'll have him come in here and do a little behind the scenes. There we go. That's what I like to hear. We'll figure out what it catches. We'll talk to Severian Jenkins. We'll get him on the phone. We'll see if we can figure this thing out. This has been another edition of GM Street, part of the Ringer podcast network.

Thank you, Michael, Mowardy. Thank you, Dave Brazier.