The Ringer NFL Show - ‘GM Street’ — What Went Wrong in Week 3 (Ep. 148)

Episode Date: September 27, 2017

The Ringer's Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier analyze the unimpressive offensive line play in Week 3 (03:30), the myth of aging quarterbacks (08:45), the messy AFC East (21:00), the Carolina Panthers' defensive dilemmas (26:00), the Luke Falk–Sam Darnold matchup on Friday (34:30), and Donald Trump vs. the NFL (40:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons. I want to tell you about the ringer's gambling podcast. It is called Against All Odds with Cousin' Sal, and you're not going to believe this, but it is hosted by Cousin Sal. The biggest degenerate gambler that I know. He's such a degenerate. He has three other degenerates that he calls the degenerate trifecta. And they break down every conceivable gambling thing you would ever want to gamble on. They even take it to Captain Morgan's Make Believe Casino, where Sal makes up props on all kinds of things, sports, pop culture, you name it. you were going to want to get your gambling advice from these guys.

Cousin Sal, he's been a staple on the BS podcast for the last 10 years. So good that we gave him his own podcast. Check it out against all odds with Cousin Sal. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to GM Street part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Tate Frazier, and I'm joined here on this beautiful Wednesday by Mr. Mike Lombardi. Lombardi, how you doing? You can't get any better than this, Tate.

It's all good. Life's good. We actually just saw each other not too long ago. Monday morning. I was very early for me. I had just gotten off a flight. I know. I wasn't all put together.

I actually, everyone thought that I had said that I didn't know who was in the Rolling Stones. I just want to clarify for all these people, Lombardi. I know who's in the Rolling Stones. I know 1969. I was talking about the magazine. I was talking about Peter Travers. It all got lost. Peter Frampton, Peter Travers.

I got all lost in my head. But for people that think that I don't know who the Rolling Stones are, I mean, that's just offensive to anyone that's born in the 90s. And I'm going to stick up for us because right now, we got nobody. You turn on millennials. all the time. I don't. I just thought I accept it. I have accepted it. Look, when I was in the New England Patriots, we brought somebody in to teach us about millennials, okay? Was it really an education? It was wonderful. I embraced it. I'm like looking forward to it. I'll tell you this. There's no one that can be a millennial that's from my part of the state because we're so far behind the times.

We're 30 years back. We're watching Dorothy. You're a Mayberry, right? Yeah. No, I mean, basically at this point, I mean, I'm watching TV from the 80s. I'm watching the Golden Girls. Three's company when I was growing up. I mean, it's totally different. There's different variations of millennial. And I just want to put that out there for everyone. Yeah, you know, I think that's important as you do. And I'm happy that you know that. I really am, Tate.

I'm happy that you know. Where's millennial Matt? We need to bring him back. So he can tell us about Iowa millennials. That's right. Is he from Iowa? Yeah, he's from Iowa. Oh, that makes it even worse.

Well, the flyover states, you know, we just get overlooked. So I got to stand up for us whenever I can. Thanks you, Tate. I appreciate that. And I'm Peter Frampton. He probably appreciates it too. You know, he lost his guitar in a plane flight. Did you know that?

This recent? No, no, no. This is like a fascinating story. This is off the subject a little bit. But Frampton was flying to a gig, and the plane that was, it's almost like a Roberto Clemente. Of course. Bob Fimetti, terrible.

So one of those things, his equipment was on this plane and a plane crashed and thought he lost his guitar that's on the cover of Frampton comes alive. And some like 50 years later, he gets an email from somebody who says, I have your guitar. Like, it's the most amazing story of all time. And the guy didn't pawn it off or anything? You had just been safekeeping? No, he wrote him a letter. It's really, you know, I watch, I'm old, so I watch CBS Sunday morning, you know, that show.

Of course. You can learn a lot from that. Absolutely. Charlie Rose? Well, no, it's not Charlie Rose. Now it's Jane Pauley, but it used to be Charlie somebody. There was a bunch of charlies that ran it. But anyway, it was good.

So I learned it on that. But you can learn a lot. You know, you can learn a lot from looking like Yogi says. Of course, of course. And we have a lot to talk about in the NFL world. Now that we've got past Peter Frampton, we're going to continue to tell. Do you know who Yogi Barra is? Of course.

All right, good. That's a good thing. Oh, man. this is going to be a fun one. We're going to talk, of course, you know, we do our favorite Bill Wash. If we're all thinking like, no one is thinking. And a lot of people right now are thinking the offensive line play can be improved in football across the board. And can you tell us why we shouldn't be thinking this way? Well, I think there's a couple reasons. Look, so when you're in an off-season program, you have two things that you want to do. So after the season

ended, New York Giants or the Arizona Cardinals, whichever team you want, you have a, you have a design time in the league, right? So you're going to design what you want your offensive line to be. Minnesota knew their offensive line was bad. So they had a design on what they wanted it to be. And then they went out and like a car manufacturer, they produced that design. Okay? And they came out and they improved their offensive line. So now Case Keenum looks like a decent quarterback at home playing with this offensive line.

Meanwhile, the Arizona Cardinals decided that they were going to flop tackles. Like, this is a good idea in their design. And they're not really going to do anything to their offensive line, but it's going to be better next year. And the New York Giants did nothing but bring the same five guys back. So my point here is it's not going to get better for you because the production, the design was bad and then the production was even worse. And so these teams are not going to get better. Baltimore, on the other hand, tried to fix their line. They just had too many guys hurt.

Seattle tried to fix their line. They've had too many guys hurt. And so what I think happens now, Tate, is that when you watch the games or when we get ready to prepare for the games, you really have to be cognizant of the matchups between the O line and the D line. To me, that's the tale of the season after three weeks. And as a GM, right, when you go into a season, you don't address that issue. You know you have an offensive line. You have an offensive line issue and an offensive line problem. And there's like an expected room for improvement or growth.

And that doesn't happen. What do you do there? Do you just kind of have to roll with it at that point? Is it too late to make an adjustment? You're trying to make a trade. Are you trying to find a young guy on the practice? I think he has to be open-minded. You can't just say we're going to let it roll.

I mean, that's the problem. And this is, to me, this is really what the problem is in the NFL. It's a mis-evaluation of your own team. If you can't evaluate your own team, you can't evaluate other players. I mean, look, the Patriots mis-evaluated their team and their defensive line. They thought their defensive line. When they go against a bad Houston offensive line and they can't get any pressure on Deshawn Watson without Blitzen, then you have to take a step back and say, wait a minute,

we're not as good as we thought they are. And three weeks into the season, this is when you have to do it. I think now is the time to say, forget the power rankings. Oh, the chiefs are one, Arizona's two. Like, who really cares about that, right? you've got to evaluate your team and you've got to figure out how can we make it better what can we do to make it better is there any players and unfortunately in the offensive line you can't find any other players but what you could do in the scheme like last night like you got three guys rushing against five okay why wouldn't the guard for arizona go out and double on lawrence he was amazing last night by the way he was great right i mean put him in the pro ball right now after that game even though he powered bounder here back to the quarterback every single time at some point you got to say what it What people tell the quarterback, when they rush three, there's a code in the NFL. If they rush three, the quarterback says to himself, I'm going to hold the ball longer.

Because they can't, I got five blocking three. It's mathematics, right? But last night, because the guards for Arizona wouldn't go out and help the tackles, it was three on three. And the two guards stood there like chuches, why, I wonder what the hell's going on? You can't do it. So scheme has to play into this. And they picked on 53. I can't remember the name off top of my head.

Every single time Lawrence was lined up against him. It was basically bully ball. He just threw him down and got to... Shipply. Yeah, Shipply. It was Shipply. There's another, that's part of the production. He was on the line last year.

I mean, Arizona went to all their games last year in 2016. Their line was crappy last year. They come back with the same line and they're wondering, why is it any better? I don't understand. Like, at some point, like, you got to sit there. And then you're throwing the ball down the field. Like, at some point, I'm screaming at the TV.

Bella's getting pissed at me. Like, can't we throw, can't we chip these ends? Like, why wouldn't we double? Why wouldn't we take some fat offensive linemen? and say you're a tight end now, and you're going to line up wherever Lawrence is, and we're going to throw the ball. And we would have won the game. But to me, it's like you've got to make some in-game adjustments,

and that's what I don't see happening. That's why the offensive lines are getting beat. People want to get five out in a route, and nobody's helping out. Is it one of those things, too, where David Johnson, if he's in the game, they expect him to be able to handle a pass rush and be able to pass protect, and now they don't have him so they can't rely on it. Like Andre Ellington is out there, and he's more of a Darren's role. Yeah, he's a receiver at this point.

But to me, there's a way around it. If you can't do it, like to me, the teams that can make the adjustments now, you know, look, Arizona is going to play this week against San Francisco. And the way their right tackle plays at Arizona, everybody's a good rusher. Because if you can't handle power as an offensive lineman in the NFL, you get pushed back. You make everybody a good rusher. And I think that's where the problem is. And the offensive line, it's how these teams are going to adjust their schemes.

You're not going to find any players. There's no magic formula to find players now. You've got to adjust your scheme around your quarterback. And what I think Arizona's done a bad job of, and what the New York Giants have done a bad job is adjusting their scheme. They can't get five out. You're not going to be able to do that

because your quarterback's going to get killed. And it's not just offensive linemen when people are... Everyone's thinking about old QBs and how they're going to play well. And that's another thing. We're all thinking of like no one is thinking. We're all thinking that Carson Palmer is the Carson Palmer that we expecting to be.

We're thinking that Eli Manning is who we expect Eli Manning to be. And Philip Rivers, that whole class of guys. And right now they don't look like. I mean, Carson Palmer had the one. touchdown pass of Fitzshaer when he run that great. Like he cut in, he was going to do the slam and he dug back out to the post. It's a beautiful pass to the corner. It looked like vintage Carson.

But then at the end of the game, he kind of loses it as the game goes on. Because they didn't do anything in protection. They had the same coverage. If they would have just chipped the end, they had a touchdown over there. They could have done it. They didn't fandal their protection. But I think that's the other point about this conversation is like there always is, you know, when you're in scouting, there's always an age limit that you worry about a

player. Parcells would always worry a lot of linebacker who got over 31 years old. Tom Brady has created a problem for most of these NFL teams because Tom Brady's playing at 40 like most guys play at 32. And so now you take the Tom Brady magic and you transpose it over everybody else when the reality of it is, Eli at 36 ain't playing good.

Philip Rivers at 36 isn't playing good. Big Ben at 35 isn't playing very good. And I think that because we see Brady playing good at 40, we think, oh, Drew Breach's playing good at his age, everybody can do it. And when you really break these quarterbacks down, I mean, right now in the last 13 games, Philip Rivers is 3 and 10. I mean, he's 3 and 10 over the last 13 games.

He's 5 and 14 in the last 19 games. I mean, his percentages are going down in almost every single area. It's alarming. The thing you guys have an advantage in basketball is guys that get older, you can see their legs. They can't jump anymore. You can see it. It's pretty obvious. With quarterbacks, like whether it's Philip Rivers or Eli or Ben, you can't really notice

their declining skills as much because it's hard to really see. Rivers, you have to worry about him. I mean, he's making mistakes that if he was a rookie, they would have pulled them. I mean, Big Ben, the first play of the game is a touchdown against the Bears, and he can't hit the guy. The guy just misses them by a little bit. It misses receivers the whole game. I mean, their accuracy is going down, and it's about the lower bodies. I think that's the big problem.

I think we're looking at quarterbacks like, oh, Brady's old, so they should still be playing old when the reality of it is. I'm not sure they are playing very good. The last time that I can remember this being a thing where it was visible that it was a totally different quarterback was Peyton Manning when that like week four or week five range. when his arm strength in general. It just looked like it wasn't there. And it was like, oh, my God, he can't make that 15-yard out anymore. He can't throw that pass.

But for Eli and Phil Rivers and Rathesberger, they still look like they have the ability, at least, to make the throw. But Eli, he does that weird thing. We saw this last week where he does the spacing play, where it's a three-to-five-yard pass. Right. So who knows, like, you know, I haven't quite seen Eli be the guy that's going to throw it deep to a plan.

Eli's not holding the ball. He's getting rid of it. He's getting rid of it. He goes down with, I mean, a good stiff breeze, and he's going down. He feels pressure. He's going. down, right? And so they don't do anything to protect them so that he goes down. But I think

the reality here is, is because you don't see a decline in their arm strength, you think they're still the player they were. When we have to stop evaluating quarterbacks like just with their arm, it's also the punches that they've taken. How many times they've gotten hit and how many punches they see being thrown that really aren't being thrown, that becomes a problem. And so when they can't make the plays that they're used to making, like Palmer, I mean, I give Palmer a ton of credit. I mean, he stands in there and he takes a beating and he keeps coming back. His eye level really never goes down. If you protected Palmer, based on what he played last night, he could be much better,

but they're never going to protect him. They want to get five out. Same thing with Big Ben. I mean, they're trying to get guys in it. But it's killing Ben more than anything because they have no running game right now. I mean, that's the hard part about Pittsburgh. They're not run the ball like they used to. Their offensive line isn't playing to the level that they're used to playing.

And I think that's the problem. And can we just say that Drew Breeze? I know we always talk about Tom Brady, how impressive it is at 40. But for Drew Brees to be doing what he's doing right now. I saw him live in person. He looks like Drew Breed from 2008 still. for whatever reason. I mean, he just still has it,

and he doesn't look phased by anything that's going. Everything looks slowed down, and he handles every single time in the pocket. He still throws the ball down the field. And, I mean, they haven't done a good job. Like, to me, I think this is going to be the key. Week four is going to be a really good week to determine how teams adjust their offense. What will Phillip Rivers do? What does San Diego chart?

They can't run the ball. San Diego can't run the ball because they haven't been able to be effective there. So they're putting the burden on responsibility on Rivers. Same thing in Pittsburgh. They haven't, now, though, Pittsburgh eventually run the ball because they've got a great back. But Eli can't run the ball. And I think what we learned here is the teams that have to, these 36-year-old guys that have to carry the team on their back,

they can't do it anymore. I'm hoping that those teams, the Arizona's, the Giants, the Steelers, they'll take a chance. You know, I hope that they just don't keep running the same thing out and expecting, you know, different results. Yeah, I think Pittsburgh will change. I think Arizona's stubborn as hell. I mean, after the game, Bruce Ariens said,

no, we just got to block better. I don't know if they can block better. Like, I don't know if that's the formula. Like, they can't do that. They're not good enough to block better. We make a lot of Andy Reid jokes about time management and especially game management, but Bruce Ariens has had some tough time with that. I know that he has a little bit of a rap on that too, but last night it was pretty, pretty tough.

I had Bruce close to being a red coach and after last night. I mean, even Sean McDonough was on him. I mean, like, that was a really, really difficult, that was a horrible mistake. I mean, that's one that your team's looking at you. Like, really, you just did that? Like, you lose credibility with that. And I think what happens is when you're calling plays, I think that affects you. And is that just a stubborn thing being a coach? I think it's an emotional thing. I think, you know, we don't really, at times is when we're watching a football game, that really the guy who's the head coach is a chess master.

He's playing chess, right? And so chess players don't get emotional. They play the game. They play all the plays out. They've studied former games so they can know what to do when they're in the game. Same thing a head coach should do. I've studied all these former games. This is how it happens.

If you approach your game like a chess master, you don't have any emotion. But when you approach it as on a play-to-play basis, like the Arizona Cardinals did last night, then you're emotionally, you throw the flag out. I just did it because I was pissed. That's not a good reason. I think that's what he did. He made an emotional decision,

not a smart decision. And we kind of give him a little bit of a pass because he's calling all these plays. He's worrying about the formations on defense for Dallas. He's personally adjusting his offense on the fly and also having to manage a game, which is a lot to ask. But on the other side,

because he throws that challenge, if he throws it away, throws it away on the replay. That's not going to hold up. It definitely wasn't a catch that Jenkins pass. So he challenged, throws away a timeout. And then Jason Garrett.

Not to be denied. He will not be denied. A guy that's not calling the game. Oh, but he went to Princeton, so he's really smart now, Tate. He went to Princeton. Stop it. You've got to stop this. He went to Princeton. Larry Fitzgerald goes up to Orlando Scandrick. He literally steals the ball from him in the air. It's right in front of him. The whole bitch, Dak, Prescott, watched the whole thing. If anything, he should have gone on him and said, hey, Jason, I think that's a catch 100%. Well, first of all, first of all, the DB never thought it wasn't a catch. Oh, yeah, Scandrick. He never thought it wasn't. He was like, oh my God.

Yeah, he couldn't believe it. He got a stole it. And then Larry throws the ball. Like, to me, you can see the reaction by the players when you see it. Like, and when Larry threw the ball back, here was never a doubt. Like, Larry knew he caught the ball. Like, just, why not take a second and just, like, take time out here, okay? Like, okay, and watch it and see. But, you know, I mean, look, I think the Cowboys last night, Jason Garrett got the Groot.

What's that Gruden Award? Oh, the Gruden Grindrinder. It was beautiful. I was so happy for him. Because I've been talking to me. You know, Gruden came out. He said the media talks a lot of junk about this guy. About Garrett?

About Garrett. Oh, he's probably yelling at us. Yeah, exactly. So I was like, that's probably Michael Lombard. Not me. I say only glowing things about Jason Garrett. But he came out, gave him the award and said he deserves it. But I think that was a bad sign that he threw that challenge flag out.

I mean, that's the first of all. I want to know, like, what did Garrett do to get that award. I mean, wouldn't you have given that award to Dak Prescott? I mean, Dak Prescott makes two plays. He makes two of the plays of the game. I mean, they weren't designed. I mean, that wasn't like, okay, Dax. Okay, here's what we're going to do, Dak.

We're going to make you make the tackle the end miss when he's coming up to tackle you. and then you're going to scramble to your right, and then you're going to hit Bryce down the field on just a bullet, an ideal throw. On the run, unbelievable. I designed that in my head. Come on, give me a break. I mean, that's Dak Prescott being great, right?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and they're having a hard time. One thing I will say, they tried to move Des around last night. They were trying to move Des around, trying to get him to do something, and they still have a hard time getting Des the ball. They did do a nice little segment with Gruden

at the end of the game, and they were compared him to Anquam Bolden, like a way that he could find a role where you're 10 yards and then, you're going to take short routes, little slants. You're going to try to use your strength. No, I didn't see this. No, I didn't see this. They're talking about Des? They're talking about Des. And I'm sure he wasn't flattered by that

because he still probably views himself as a premier elite receiver. But they were basically saying he can't take the top off of a defense anymore. Even though he's never really quite been that guy. Oh, really? Somebody's listening to GM Street. I'm honored by this. So Anquine Bolton was a comparison. And I thought it was pretty fair. I mean, I think Des could be that guy. I mean, that 12-yard touchdown. I mean, that was great. Pure strength. And I wrote, and I tweeted out, I said, like, look, if I'm the Cowboys, I might put him in the back field and give him the ball like Cordell Patterson does for the Raiders. And people say, well, you said he can't take the top off the... No, he can't. I mean, he can't run anymore.

I mean, that's pretty clear, right? Yes. I mean, does that mean he can't separate, like a big... Does that mean he can't play? No, that doesn't mean he can't play. And especially it's getting, he's going to get a premier corner. Yeah, exactly. He's always going to get the best corner. You know, to me... He's going to get Xavier Rhodes or whoever it is. And so what he has to do is win the physical matchups. And the one thing about, he's going to be. And the one thing about this guy is, he's competitive, which you got to love, right? And with the ball in his hands, he could be destructive. So you got to get him the ball. The problem you get into is when they move him around and they're not supposed to move him around, like last night when they moved

him around, and he came over in the slot, I'm like saying to the TV, I told Bella, it's a screen. You know, like it's going to be a screen. And that's they throw him a screen. Like you can kind of know where he's lined up because he likes to be in one spot all the time. And that's where he's the most comfortable. And if he plays against zone, like the touchdown pass was really against zone and he gets a free release. He's going to be fine. He's got to give him the ball. But I think my point is he's not worth $16 million the way they're paying him. He can't change

the game. He doesn't tip the scales. He doesn't make it a better game. He doesn't make the offense better. And I think the way the formula to beat the Cowboys is what the Cardinals did. The problem was the Cardinals are a 50-minute team. And that was the Des Bryant Spotlight sponsored by Jordan Brand. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to come back and we're

going to talk about some people, some teams and insults some people. Some situations that need to get insulted. We'll be back. If you travel for business, you know, it's a game of wins and losses. Having your hotel room away from the elevator, that's a win. Not having Wi-Fi in your room, man, that's a huge loss. Buy your business trip at Upside.com. Well, that's not just a win.

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We've done this the past few weeks. We're actually going to call this Not for Nothing. It's a nice little phrase. It's softened the blow a little bit. So not for nothing. The Miami Dolphins... We're going to insult them, though, I hope. Yeah, we're going to insult them just a little bit.

They are right now one-in-one. They get this nice one out in Los Angeles. They're going to go to London. But they need to get insulted a little bit. What are you going to say the Miami Dolphins right now? I don't have to say anything. I'm really proud about this because Adam Gase said it all. I mean, Adam Gase said a lot of bad football.

He said more mental errors than we made the last two years. I mean, he's, Adam Gase is on top of it. Adam Gase is like, look, you know, we didn't really win the first game of the year. I mean, if the Chargers had a field goal kicker, which still blows me away, like I don't know how the Chargers could go into the season with a field goal kicker who they never attempted a 40-yard field goal in the preseason. Do you realize that? It's amazing.

It was a great story for Young Wicoo and the whole record. It's a wonderful story. in the narrative. But anyway, so but that game there, they win because of a misfield goal, which when you're on the plane ride home, you're celebrating, you won the game. I mean, that's great. But deep down, you got to know you're not playing very good. So the next week you come out and you lay a giant egg against the, against the New York.

Jets. I mean, they were dominated. I mean, the week before against the Chargers, Cutler's nine for nine on third down. Now, he didn't convert all the third downs, but he was nine for nine in passing on third down. This week, they only converted one third down. Their offensive line was horrible. They couldn't get the ball down the field. I mean, they just weren't ready to play.

And I think the problem is why I'm insulted in the Miami Dolphins is I'm not sure they're going to be better than the Buffalo Bills. Like, I think the Buffalo Bills will give them everything they can handle. And everybody thinks the Miami's going to be 10 and 6 and come back. But Buffalo, to me, looks like a better team in terms of the complete team. Miami's defense, look, look, the Jets got to love them. They try hard. I love you, Mick. But they're not a great, great offense.

Now, they got better because they got Curly running routes and they got the kid from Seattle, Curs, coming in there, he's making place. But, I mean, McCown did a nice job of shredding the Miami defense. To me, I think Miami's really a problem. I do too. I mean, I think that they have a lot of trouble. And I mean, you mentioned the Buffalo Bills.

I mean, Ty Taylor, Tyra Taylor does not get enough credit for being able to manage that offense. And they're putting him in the right position to win those games. Cutler just looked out of his element in New York. He looked like it was too much. They're going to blame Cutler, but I mean, when Miami can't run the ball, and you make Miami play left hand. Everybody thinks Miami three receivers.

They've got three great receivers, and they do. They're good. They have three talented receivers. But when you're on the road, you've got to be able to run the football. You've got to have some balance. You can't go into visiting stadiums, whether there's nobody at this game or not, and throw it 50 times. You're not going to win those games.

It's too hard. It puts too much pressure on the quarterback. He's going to make too many mistakes. I give it to Todd Bowles. I mean, that defense came out and they kicked butt. I mean, they beat Miami up front. And then Miami's defense, which has talked about, oh, they got branch and they got suits.

and they got all these great players. They couldn't stop anybody against the Jets. I mean, they struggled. And now they play New Orleans this week, which is a really good matchup for New Orleans, because New Orleans will be able to handle them. They won't match up very well against New Orleans. The problem is going to be can New Orleans match up to their offense?

Well, and can Miami score with New Orleans? I think it's going to be, I think the Londoners are in for a good game. I mean, last week they saw Blake Bortles light it up. I mean, this week, one of the quarterbacks is going to play really well, whether it's Cutler or Brees. Or Breeze. I mean, they're going to play it really well. So I think you got, you know, that'll be a good game.

But to me, Miami, just after two weeks, they haven't looked like they're really a playoff caliber team yet. And I think Adam Gay sees it. Do you think that the Jets will end up being at the bottom of the AFCs and when it's all said and done? I mean, do you think that probably won't be the best team, but they're playing hard. That's what I mean. I've watched all these Jets games. And I mean, a lot of people dog them and everyone makes fun. It's like almost a joke or running joke to make fun of the Jets.

But McCale tries hard. He'll run for 30 yards. He'll take a huge hit. He doesn't care. I mean, he's playing hard. I mean, this whole Sam Darnold notion is just ridiculous because, like, this, oh, we're going to tank for Sam Darno. We want the higher draft pick when, you know, Garoppolo, they won't trade him and he's

a second round pick. Derek Carr's a second round pick up there. I mean, we're seeing that there's no lock just because you get the first pick. You're going to get the best player. I mean, look, Carson Wentz was the second pick. He's better than the first pick. So I think you have to instill the culture in winning. And I think that's what the Jets are trying to do.

Miami, on the other hand, I think losing that week of the first game of the season, and hurt them. Both teams that didn't play the first week, played good the second week and looked bad at the third week. Maybe there's a pattern there. I mean, Tampa didn't look good either. I mean, we could insult them as well. We won't do that this week, but maybe next week. So good for the bucks that they avoided this one. Next up,

not for nothing. The Arizona Cardinals, we mentioned this a little bit. We'll probably just touch on them. Just a couple insults. The game management by Bruce Ariens and just the whole game in general, I mean, it was really tough of the Cardinals. I think really the hard thing without beating it, like Parcells would say, to me all the time. Quit kicking the horse. It's already dead. Like, you know, no sense of kicking

a dead horse, but the reality here is, is like, they'd have to make some adjustments in Arizona. I mean, they're not the team. Arizona thought they were great last year when they opened up in New England. And they have to have, really, Arizona needs true serum. They all need to go in a room and say, this is who we really are, and we need to fix out

who, we need to fix our team based on who we really are, because we're not a great team. And I thought at the end of the game last night, they kind of, like, wilted away. They didn't really compete. And I think Bruce's game management, affected them. I think Carolina's game, man, as you were at that game, I mean, what was your reaction when you saw, when you saw Ron Rivera not go for it? Well, he's Riverboat Run, right? I mean, that's whenever the infamy and the fame of this whole Carolina Panthers run,

when everyone wanted to jump on the bandwagon, it was all Riverboat Run, he'll go forward on fourth, Cam Newton's going to run the ball. And that whole idea, the defense is really tough as Keekley and Thomas Davis. Those two guys were at the sideline heckling back and forth in in between plays the entire game with Rivera and the whole staff. Cam and Mike Schuller are like doing cold stares at each other. It just, it doesn't look like the team is all together on the same page for whatever reason. And when something like that happens, a whole crowd's trying to find something to get galvanized by and you don't go for it. I mean, people were just kind of like, what are we doing here? You could try to make it a two-possession game at this point, at least

try to make it a contest, but instead you're just kind of content with, you know, getting your ass kicked. Yeah, you know, I think sometimes when you're watching those games, like to me, the going forward on fourth down is all predicated on how you're actually playing. Like, I mean, the Eagles on fourth and eight. I mean, you know, you have to manage the situation and bring it in. And then how your defense, the Eagles defense was playing really good up until that point. Same thing with Carolina. I mean, you really think your defense is going to stop New Orleans. I mean, you can't. So they had Michael, Shaq Thompson, so they had the three linebacker, Shaq. Thompson, Luke Keakley, Thomas, Davis. Guess who their garden? Michael Thomas,

24-year-old out of Ohio State runs a 4-4. Right. It isn't going to work. And he was burdened them every time. I mean, Drew Breese is smart enough to know that, hey, Shaq Thompson's going to go out on Michael Thomas. He's going to be wide open down the field. and they burn them three or four separate times, and they're running over to the sideline. They're like, hey, this isn't working. We've got to get a nickel out here to guard this guy. Right.

And nothing was being changed. Well, that'll happen this week, too, because what will happen when they go up to Carolina, when Carolina goes to New England, New England will try to make them play their base on the field. And if they play base against New England's 12 personnel, that'll be the same problem. And that's what you can't do.

You have to try to change the narrative during the game. And Carolina has a lot of money in their linebackers. They got a first round pick in Shaq Thompson. They paid Keekeley. They paid Thomas Davis. so they try to keep those guys on the field because they want to be able to stop the run. Okay, they want to stop the run first and force you to throw the ball, but the matchup favors you to throw the ball when you're in 12,

and they gain the advantage. And I think that that's really what they have to figure out a way to play nickel and be effective run defenders. And I think that's their issue right now. Yeah, and they don't have Chris Gamble or a guy of that level on the outside that can really guard a top receiver. They don't have a slot corner and the guy on the outside. No, they have to be his own team.

I mean, that's who they are. And that's who they are. I mean, the same thing with Buffalo, that's who they are too, because it's the same scheme. But yet Buffalo is able to match up and play better. They have a better slot corner. I think it'll be interesting. Carolina's problem besides the game management is really trying to find the identity of who they are.

And I would just say this about Carolina. A lot of people think that it's a totally different team. All these things have changed. What has really changed is the defense was good enough to keep them like they did the first two weeks. It's like you can score 10 points and we can win 10 to 9. And that's just not the case anymore. I mean, Cam, there has to be some sort of, and it's not like they don't put the onus on cam to audible at the line and to make all these changes.

Like he goes in, he has a play call, he's going to run the play. And it's going to be a rhythm throw. And if someone knows it's coming, they can pick it off and it's going to happen. So there has to be some sort of change in philosophy. And I don't know if that's going to happen or if it can't happen. I don't know if it can either. But I know this. They rely on their red zone defense to be really effective.

And when their Mike, like Luke Keekley is so effective in the red zone, they can keep people to hold people to field goals. But when they play a team like New England this week, who realizes their defense, New England can't play defense next week more than 25 minutes against anybody. I mean, if they played Alabama, they couldn't play defense for 25 minutes, right? So New England knows going in the game. They got to play offense for 35 minutes.

And so they're going to have to be really good on third down. They're going to have to control the clock and pace the game. And I think that's how you have to beat Carolina. Carolina is not going to be able to score enough points in 25. But if Carolina can get it to 30 and 30, they have a chance. To me, that's how you have to play the game. You have to now, after three weeks, you've got to figure out how to want to play this game. And I think that's what we're going to find out. And they all needed

to get insulted a little bit. They did. Well, I mean, Carolina, look, I think that last weekend was a great weekend for everybody who was feeling good. Bobby Knight, one time we went to, I'll tell story time now. So Belichick and I, and we're at the Browns and we drive down. We'd always go to Indiana to watch Indiana practice, to Bloomington, to watch Coach Knight practice. And so Gil Brand met us there one year. And the best part of doing it was we would go out to lunch or dinner with night afterwards, and he would just basically hold a clinic on what he would think about. And one of the times we went, it was really fascinating because he talked about the outside factors, how they affect players. And he would be like, you know, if we could just keep these kids in like a room where they

didn't listen to any of the noise. And this is before we all had cell phones. Yeah, this is 90s, right? This is the 91, 92. It's in there. So, you know, and so that the noise wasn't as loud then as it is now. And so what you see now is there's so much noise on the outside that the players hear this. And after two weeks, three weeks, you start to think you're pretty good. And they all look at the power ratings and they say they're pretty good. And nights like, if we could just keep them from ever going too far one way or the other, too high or too low, we'd have a chance to have a really good team. And that's really proven true. Like, okay, the jets get blown out in Oakland. To me, they were going to play Miami good the next week.

I mean, because you know why? Because Bowls had their attention. Just like this week, Miami will play good in London because Gase will have their attention because the noise from the outside will be beating them on a negative way. But when it's that positive way, that's the hard challenge.

And when you win, like Arizona, I think Andy Reid's done a nice job. They've won three games, and he's not listened to the noise. And he's heard him how great they are. You can't believe how great you are and you can't believe how bad you are. I will say with the Chiefs, too,

is like when Eric Barry went down after that first game, sort of wrote him off again. It's like he's used something each week to be like, now people don't think that you're going to do it because of this person. Now people don't think you're going to do it because of this person. It helps your motivation. I mean, like it'll help New England now when everybody talks about how bad they are on defense.

But, I mean, historically, I mean, they're on pace. They're on pace to be the worst defense in the history of the NFL right now. I mean, think about that. That's a Bill Belichick defense. So they're going to use that as motivation. And I think some of these teams, like the Chargers, they can use that as motivation to help them play the Eagles this week. The Eagles are coming out here, two and one, kick a six.

61-yard field goal, they're flying out to LA, thinking, oh, man, this is going to be no, we'll beat this team, no problem. Well, you know, now Anthony Lynn has a chance to really see if he can motivate the team and see if they can pay attention. To me, that's what the NFL is fascinating about. And it happened with the Raiders, too, we saw that. The Raiders, everyone's saying that they're the second best team, possibly the first best team of the AFC, they fly across the country and they play in FedEx Field and Kirk Cousin cuts them up. Because they don't, it's not they don't take them seriously, is that they believe it's back to the night conversation. They kind of believe what they want to hear. I thought Minouski, the defense coordinator of the Redskins, was great.

When he talked about, he was just like, look, you know, we beat, everybody's talking about how great golf is and how great the Rams are. We stoned them, and then we come back and play the Raiders and we stone them. Nobody's giving us credit. He's right. And he's using that mentality to help their defense, which to me, when I watch them, they played really good. They played two teams. They played sound. Their defensive line has controlled the game.

I think Tomasula has done a great job for the defensive line. And I think Minuski's done a good job. And Zach Brown. And Zach Brown. He has their attention. He's been great. I mean, Zach Brown was good last year. The problem with Zach Brown is,

does everybody think he knows what he's doing? And obviously he does. Yep, absolutely. No, no, no, no. You insulted him a little bit. You got a little out of order yourself. I didn't insult him. I didn't insult him a little bit.

Quick break to get a word from some fantasy football friends. Fantasy football fans, listen up. It's not too late to join the 450,000 people that have already downloaded draft this season. You get to play in a real live snake draft, but you're done in under five. minutes and they last for just one week. You can join one right now for week four. The best part, play for cold, hard cash and get this, your chances of winning are 80% better than on this salary

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That's a Benjamin. Go do it. The past couple of weeks, we've been doing the college lottery. Basically, guys are going to be the... Some guys to watch that will be coming in the NFL next year. That'll be big time, guys. We got Luke Falk and he's playing Sam Darnel this weekend. Friday night in Spokane.

Have you ever been to Spokane? I've never been to Spokane. I've never even been to the state. It's not Spokane. You've never been a space. Well, there's two different state. I mean, so the western part of the state is Seattle and it's beautiful. And the eastern part of the state is kind of like potato country. It's beautiful up there. There's a lake called Quarter Lane in Idaho. It's beautiful. Potatoes, those are mine. That's family. You know, it's all good. But anyway, it's not in Spokane. The game will be played in Pullman, which is about an hour south of Spokane. Okay. Kind of a, you know, there's the University of Idaho and the University of Washington State are right side by side. One's in Idaho. But, you know, they haven't been, you know, this will be like a crazy atmosphere. And I think this will be a great evaluation. tool for the scouts at home, you guys watching. Is Sam Darnold really going to be able to go up there?

Can he not turn the ball over? Can he handle the hostile environment? Can he play well there? I mean, did against Texas. He made some mistakes. I think there's no lock that Sam Darnold's going to be the next John Elway. I think we have to temper that and say, okay, who is he really and understand that? And I think we get to see Luke Falk play against the team that's got really good skill players.

And if he can play well in this situation, then his stock goes up. So to me, this is kind of like a stock game. When you look at Falk, I mean, is this a Jake Locker situation where he's playing at Washington and then we watch them these big games and he plays up to the level and we all expect it? You know, because a lot of the times, like, when you bill up these big games and then someone does deliver, it doesn't matter what they do after that. We've already decided they are a top level guy. Well, you know, when Derek Carr came out, he played against SC and everybody said,

well, you know, he didn't play good against SCC. Well, the game was moving faster, right? And his, the Fresno State players that... It's a different caliber game. A different caliber. So he took the brunt of that. That's why he's the second round pick. Everybody looked at that USC tape and said, well,

he really didn't play very good in that tape. Well, I mean, it's kind of hard to play good. I think Falk, you know, going back to Jake Locker, yeah, yeah. Locker, to me, was always a kid that was the best athlete on the team that they made into a quarterback that really wasn't a quarterback. Like, he should have been a running back. The Ryan Tannahill. Right, right, exactly. I mean, to me, when I looked at him, I thought, you know, he's more of us.

He was the kid who was always the shortstop in Little League. He could do so many things, but he played quarterback, and that wasn't his natural position. Falk, on the other hand, doesn't have great skill level. He doesn't have a big arm, but he has a way of running this offense, and this offense has never transposed itself into the NFL. I mean, how many Texas Tech quarterbacks have not really played well in the NFL under the Mike Leach administration of offense? So it's going to be really fascinated to see if Falk can come in and play this way.

Davis Webb went. My Holmes went last year. So we're seeing a trend that's going in that direction. I like it. I think Falk is – I believe in Falk. I just get – I always timber my expectations because I kind of kind of look at the schools and how they end up, you know, turning people out and just kind of seeing the positions especially. And, you know, Locker was a little bit of a folly.

I think the one thing we can accomplish on this podcast is to temper everybody and lower it. Like, like Rosen is going to be the first or second picket. Like, stop, please. Like, just watch him play. Let him define who he is. Stop trying to define him too soon. He keep watching them play. If you think he's great and he's playing great, his team will win, or he'll do things that'll make you, just grade what you see. And so this game against SC for, and for Darnold against Washington State, we just get to grade what we see. We don't have to rush to a judgment.

And I think that's where we get the mistakes being made. I think people are too much in a hurry. And people want USC quarterbacks to be coordinated pretty quickly. I mean, we've already seen that. I mean, obviously, with liner, then you go to Sanchez. I mean, that worked out well. That worked out well. Starris.

Just go to the line. I mean, the jets have taken too many USC quarterbacks. That's what I keep saying. It's like we got Barclay there. We got Sanchez there. They don't need another guy. They've already done it. They've already tried it.

Go to another school. try to figure it out. Go to Luke Falk. I think what you have to do is you have to ask yourself the question. If New England, you know, Brady continues to play like he's doing and New England doesn't franchise him, would you rather have Luke Falk or would you rather have Sam Darno or Jimmy Groplo? You got to compare them to that. I mean, if you're the Cleveland Browns, you've got to compare

to Sean Kaiser to every quarterback in there. You just can't look at it on a linear basis. You've got to look at everybody else. Would you rather have this quarterback versus the one you're playing? I think that becomes the problem. You've got to kind of weigh all the factors. It's not A or B. It's a false duality when it's A or B.

it's A, B, and then there's a bunch of other things. I like that. False duality. Yeah, that's a great term for this podcast. I mean, people didn't know we're going to get that deep in different levels. False duality is the hardest thing to do. That's where Bruce Ariens makes his mistake. False duality is this.

It's when you look at a problem and you think it's A or B, when it's really C, D, E, or F, but you haven't thought it through. That's when you can make the best decisions. And coaches and chess players, this is why chess players, chess players see, D, E, and F when they're looking at a move. They don't think A or B. A pool player doesn't see, well, if I hit this Q in here and I bring the cue ball back, he's thinking the other things going through.

That's what makes a great coach. It's called false duality, and that's why coaches are good. That's why I have a hard time understanding why we're in a world where we're just giving guy, like Sean McBay, he's done a great job. I'm not criticizing it. But when he's over on the sideline, looking at his play sheet, he's not thinking about false duality. He's thinking about what he's going to call next in that way.

And I think sometimes you would be better off as a coach to not. do that. And we're going to jump into our word on the street and it's actually going to come full circle to false dualities because there's been a lot going on the NFL. We did not touch on this on our Monday morning podcast, but obviously we saw last night Jerry Jones comes out with the entire Dallas Cowboys team. They take a knee in the center of Arizona Stadium and you know, the crowd gives them a little boo, but then they get up before the national anthem actually starts say lock arms. They do the whole thing. When you're talking about false duality, a lot of this stuff is, you know, A or B. And, you know,

And there's a lot of stuff that is ingrained in all this stuff moving down. There's a lot of C.D.E. and F. in situations. But this whole Trump situation that happened over this weekend is now formed into, it is the NFL versus the president versus Donald Trump. And it has changed the whole, the process of kneeling, which was Kaepernick's original thing. Now the NFL has co-opted to now you've come at us, the brand, the shield, that is the NFL that we are discussing today.

And now that they are on this train and on this trend, it seems like the Nealphal is. dealing now is a totally different conversation and different discussion point where it's like you're choosing a or B. You're the NFL or you're the president of the United States. And that's where we're at on the world of the street. We are in a position where you're basically choosing sides. And Jerry Jones obviously did that to make a statement last night. But I just want to say personally, it has completely changed the whole point of the conversation in the first place. And now the NFL is completely co-opted for almost a marketing ploy themselves. And for that and seeing Jerry Jones doing the whole thing. And then they issued the statement that I wasn't sure.

of really what that statement. They had to change the statement again. And it's a lot of false statements and a lot of statements that don't really say anything. I think action speaks a lot of them words. I think that we have to as a country, I think one thing that's been proven out is we need some form of leadership. And somebody needs to come to the front and try to help solve the problems that we all see. And I would urge everybody to read a book called Everybody Lies.

It was, I read it this summer, and it was fascinating in terms of what really is going on. And Google searches now determine more what's true. Nobody lies to Google. Nobody lies to Google, Tate Frazier. Nobody, everybody, you sit at your computer tonight, you're going to type in the truth in terms of what your Google search is. However, that being said, when you talk to the man on the street or you get polled the question, you're probably going to lie to that person.

You're just going to tell them what they want to hear. And so I think what we really need to do is have a real deep conversation about what the truth is and what we can do to make a difference. Because making a difference is all that matters. We have to. And I think whether you kneel, whether you stand. whatever you decide to do, try to make a difference. That to me is the most important thing. And a lot of times dialogue is a difference. And right now it's a lot of tweets responded by statements.

Statements responded by tweets. That's not a dialogue. Those are two separate things that are happening on the same course. And we talked about this on the podcast earlier. You cannot make an emotional decision. Like you have to count. I used to tell my two sons all the time before they would go out. Don't think three, don't think twice. Think three times. like don't go out and think, oh, should I do this? No, think three times. You know, and sometimes I think that little advice that you give your kids should be given to some adults in situations. Before you hit that button, think three times. Is that really what you want to do?

Is that really what you want to do? Is that something you really want to say? And can you back up what you want to say? To me, I've always believed is we need to find solutions, not create more problems. And unfortunately, that's what we've done. And the whole point is we should be talking about. the solutions and we should be trying to address the problems and try to move forward and not continue to bring up the problems when you have your own personal problems that you're

trying to avoid. And that is a lot of what's going on, unfortunately. Unfortunately, but it's been good to talk about it, though, Tate. It has been. It's the elephant in the room. It is the elephant and you know I love the elephants. I do love going to the zoo. But we just had to address that and I'm sure it'll continue to come up as we talk about football for the rest of the season. But final thoughts. I mean, we're heading into week four right now. This is going to be the week of last week we learned a lot about teams that we thought that we already knew, and now we're going to move into week four. You know, it's funny.

I love listening to Sal and Bill on the podcast and talk about that and guess the lines and all that. But, you know, when I look at this just off the top of my head, you know, when I see this, I think Tennessee going into Houston, and Houston's a home underdog with Deshaun Watson, it's going to be fast to see how he handles that. And then, you know, the Charger of Eagle games, a pick-em? I mean, really? I think that's such a trap game for the Eagles. It is such a trap game.

That's what I mean, it's really like... You're talking about the ego inflated. You have that huge walkoff win and then you've got to fly across the country to a team that's 0 and 3 that should be, you know, in some regards, possibly 2 and 1 3 and 0. But I think the one that's a sleeper, I think the Rams and getting eight points in Dallas is really a hell of a bet. Like if I were a betting man, and I'm not. But if I were, Sean McBay knows that defense better than it.

He's played against it at Washington. He scored points. They've won there. He can make his offense and, golf, as much as I've been critical of golf, and I have been, he's a seven-on-seven quarterback that can play. When he has to play fast, it's not effective. He won't have to play fast against Dallas, so I think he can be effective. I think that's a game where Dallas, if Jason Garrett, is going to be the head coach of the game, he's got to sit there. I think he will be.

He's got to sit if he wants to win the Gruden Award again for two weeks in a row, he's got to sit there and say, we have to control this football for 36 minutes or we will be in a problem. And if he does that, then that means Sean McBay's offense will only have a 24. They won't win. But if that is a 30-30 game, I think the Cowboys could get beat. I think they could too. I mean, only because they know each other. Like the Rams know the Cowboys offensively. They know what Marinelli is going to do. They know his adjustments. There's going to be no surprises. That's a huge advantage. That's a big advantage. And I will say the Cowboys, they look like they ride at the ship last night, and that's another one of those weird mental exercises.

on the back. Exactly. And so everybody's going to drink the Kool-Aid. And like Bob Knight said, if we can keep them away from all of it, we'd be good. Thank you for that, Coach Knight. We'll be back Sunday night. Thanks for listening to GM Street, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. We'll be back soon.