The Ringer NFL Show - Good Teams Will Bounce Back This Week, but the NFL Has a Problem It May Never Recover From (Ep. 150)

Episode Date: September 29, 2017

The Ringer’s Robert Mays and Kevin Clark dig into Week 4 in the NFL, beginning with a recap of the Bears vs. Packers game that reminded everyone how serious head injuries are in the NFL (02:00). Then, the guys discuss why this is the weekend when we learn how good the Panthers and Patriots are (11:30), how the Rams high-powered offense will finally be tested in Dallas (18:00), and why the Jaguars are the real deal (28:00). Plus, Mike Lombardi joins the show to explain how we are likely watching the end of the Big Ben era in Pittsburgh (37:00) and Danny Kelly calls in with some not-so-obvious fantasy matchup plays for Week 4 (54:00). Finally, Robert and Kevin offer their headlines for next week, including how pregame protests will continue to rule the news cycle (62:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's the Ringer NFL show. Kevin Clark here with Robert Maze. Robert, these gambling folks, keep asking me who to bet on. I feel like we've been pretty clear about this. The teams you should not bet on are the bears, the giants, probably the Bengals and the Browns. We were ticking enough off the list where your choices should be pretty streamlined by now. We can also get some Tony Romo rain delay comment, prop bets going. Oh, it's amazing.

I can't wait to see what more film commentary we're going to get from Tony over the rest of the year. I did not expect him to be thrown out Sam Mendez-Filix. I understand American Beauty like kind of. of got into the mainstream, but that's still a weird movie to reference 20 years later. It's also a weird reference in general. Anyway, I can't tell them who to bet on, but I do point them to my bookie. That makes sense. They have live in-game betting, tons of player perks, and a really cool mobile site so you can

bet from anywhere. So instead of just refreshing Twitter, whatever app you use, you can just bet on games? That might be healthier for me, honestly. I know I don't bet on games, but the Twitter refreshing is getting a little out of hand. Yeah, 280 characters now. I know. That makes it even worse. But if you want to join MyBooky, they'll give you even more incentive by matching your deposit with up to 100% bonus.

Visit MyBooky.ag and use the promo code Ringer NFL to activate offer. You play, you win, you get paid. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark, join as always with my friend Robert Mays. Robert, it's week four of the NFL season. Weird game, Thursday night, weird week. We've talked about it all week. It's dominated the headlines.

The week that we didn't think could get much worse for the NFL game. got worse with a devastating Danny Trevathan hit on Devante Adams, which dominated a fairly boring game on Thursday night. What did you think of the game and what did you think of the hit? Well, let me talk about the Bears for 30 seconds before I get to the actual things that matter. It was such an embarrassing game, and I've just run out of reasons for why Michael Nutt should be the quarterback.

If the guy is supposed to be this stopgap option that gives you some sort of safety and competent level of play, that's just going out the window. Right. He looked okay in certain stretches. The turnovers have gotten out of hand. It's also the situation where the bears clearly want to be this running play action team where they boot and they put their quarterback on the move and they try to be built around that version of their offense.

And they have the perfect quarterback to do that. He's just sitting on the bench. And the guy they have cannot move. Mike Tomlin referred to him as statuesque before they played the Steelers. And I think he meant that as a compliment, but that's not a compliment. Like Mike Glennon's traits for being an NFL quarterback remain tall. The man is tall, and that's, we're done there. It just doesn't make any sense to me why you wouldn't take him out of the game at this point.

You have a mini buy before the Monday night game against Minnesota next week. There's no argument for me anymore so why he should be the quarterback. The lion is not bad. The pressure mostly happens because Glenn cannot move and he really is not good at processing information quickly. So I'm out of him. Trubisky should be the quarterback. I don't have any other reason not to. There's this coaching stuff's probably going to be gone before the end of the season.

Okay. That's that aside. The Trevathan hit was stomach churning. I mean, the choice to make that hit in the moment, I know that things happen quickly. That's hard to diagnose plays. It's hard to aim. That's the thing that there was a penalty earlier in the game where Clinton Dix hit Josh Bellamy high and it was a ball over the middle and Bellamy went down for it.

That's the stuff where that's difficult. When you're aiming for the midsection and a guy goes down quickly, this was not that. He came in helmet first from the get-go and he snapped the guy's neck back. who could not protect himself because he was in the grasp of another player. He should be fine. He should be suspended in my opinion. I think that you have to send a message on stuff like this. And it comes on the heels of news this week about the possibility that a Boston University study has found a way to diagnose CTE and living people.

And you talked about this with Brian Curtis earlier this week, but it is a game changing thing. And I feel like that news coming two or three days before we see something like this, I can understand. where the future of football and the viability of football and all of those things comes into question when you see something like that. That's the type of stuff they have to legislate out of the game, whether it's kicking him out right away, whether it's suspending him for one or two or however many games. These are the type of moves they need to make when you consider the rest of the climate that currently exists. The rule book in the NFL is so thick that it almost means nothing in a weird way. It is so big that there's nothing there, if that makes

any sense. I did a story last year after we saw Cam Newton essentially get slaughtered in prime time in the first game in the season against the Denver Broncos. And I talked to a couple of referees that weekend. It was a Thursday night game. And I remember the disbelief that they had at in 2016 at this point, how bad the NFL was protecting anybody. You have really specific rules on who can throw flags on what as far as, you know, oh, this, this referee's in the back field and he can only throw things on the quarterback, can't, can't throw a holding penalty, whatever. First of all, give them all the leeway they want. Make them like airline pilots.

They can do whatever the hell they want, right? They have full control. The other thing is, just give them more flexibility. If that referee thought Danny Treathan should have been thrown out of the game, just throw them out of the game. Just throw them out of the game. I don't care. I don't care about the rule book.

I don't care about intent or crown of the helmet. all that stuff is so dense that it is meaningless. Throw him out of the game. And they should be able to review that play. I absolutely think they should be able to go back and look at that tape and see what it actually looks like. Because those plays do happen so quickly. One, he got flagged, but you should be able to go back and look at that in my opinion and say, what should we do with this?

Because it's that important of a decision. We've seen this, Kevin. It's been incremental since those initial defenseless receiver, rules came in. When we had the first blow to the head rules, I think there were guys who changed their approach. Look at a guy like Cam Chancellor or Keanu Neal, guys that are considered hitters, but rarely get flagged for doing it because they have changed the way they go about this. But even after that initial step, there has to be more steps than that. You can't just say, well, we have flags now. I think that it has to go further and that's a great example. You have the

flag, but that's not enough. You have to do more than just ding a guy for 15 yards. You're for perpetuating a play like that. I mean, it is, it is the biggest problem in the NFL right now, because right now Ann McKee told Sports Illustrated, I think, and she's the researcher at Boston University, she told Sports Illustrated that the test for CTE, she thinks in living people is about five years away. There's a couple of wrinkles there.

Number one, the players could go back, the ex-players could go back and sue the league because CTE is not covered in the concussion settlement. There's a lot of things there. It's very dense. Don't don't. That's far off. Okay.

But if the NFL isn't going to help itself and the NFL is going to let guys like Devante Adams take those hits, then whatever happens in five years, the NFL deserves. Whatever happens, if there starts to be a death cycle and in 30 years nobody plays football, and we talked about this on the podcast, Brian Curtis on Wednesday, football is going to thrive for the next 20 to 25 years. But what happens with CTE? and the living testing is that the liability

does high school programs get rid of football if they can if if three guys in the team have CTE to colleges say this is not worth it for us or do they say liability wise if you have CTE you can never play football again I mean there are so many wrinkles coming and if the NFL isn't going to help itself

and make the game safe and I know they're trying I know they're trying but if they're not going to make the game safe and do things like throw Danny Trefathan out of the freaking game then I do not know what to expect from the future of football. And the reason the CTE thing is, I mean, it's a game changer for so many different reasons. But one of those is that the study done at Boston University and the math and the numbers that have come back on CTE and those patients, that's a self-selecting sample. Those players were, their brains were sent to Boston University in part because they had shown symptoms of CTE and their families were concerned about them.

Now, if you played football and there's an easy way for you to get tested, even if it's not that easy. people are going to do it. I've thought if it happens and if it's reasonable and if it is not financially prohibitive, I will do it. I will take, I've had at least four or five concussions. I play football for 10 years. I will do it.

And can you imagine? Because I am concerned. It is something I have absolutely thought about because I remember how that felt, just that tingle in your face. And at the time, I liked it. And there's part of you that that's an attractive element of the game. And now it's crazy.

and it's kind of terrifying that that's the way we used to think about it. But if you played for 20 years, 25, if you're a guy that's in the league for a decade and a half, I can't imagine what the prospect of this test and what it can tell you is going to change for people. And it really is. And it's five years is not that long. It's a long time to, you know, it seems like a long time in certain elements, but it's really not.

And the fact that we're that close possibly, it's kind of crazy to think about it. Yeah, I had two concussions as well. One was from hockey and one was getting punched in their face. And so I probably, you know, you played football for how many years? A decade, 10. Okay, I played football for three years. I don't think I would take the test. I'm not tremendously concerned as far as my well-being goes.

But, I mean, there are going to be people like you all over America who want to take it because they're just not sure. Why are they forgetting their keys? Why are they more susceptible to snap? Why do they have different diseases? You know, I mean, you look at some of the things that have been linked, there's some very serious diseases that have been linked to CTE. And if you have a disease and you say, okay, I'm going to take the test for CTE,

it turns out you have CTE, do you then go back and sue your high school? Do you go back? I'm not you specifically. I'm talking about people who are later in life. and have these diseases. I mean, the layers here are, I mean, limitless. That is where the questions are going to start to arise, right? Where does negligence and ignorance, where do they start and where they stop?

When do we know enough about this to the point that administrators, coaches should save kids from themselves? I mean, do we know enough now? I think those are the questions that are in place. And I don't know the answers to them because they're extremely complicated. But those are the ones that are going to come up over and over and over again over the next decade. Yeah, it's going to be, if you think the last 10 years have been weird as far as the NFL focusing on health and safety and changing the rules and all that, I mean, wait until that test comes down, like, man. I mean, it is, it is going to be the most fascinating decade of football you can possibly imagine. Well, we still got to talk about football, though, you're here.

And we will, and we will. And we're going to be here on Friday to get you set for the weekend. And we're going to be back on Tuesday to react everything that goes down in week four. We'll have our colleague, Danny Kelly, joining us with some great fantasy advice later. and our in-house GM Michael Lombardi will be joining us as well. But for now, let's get going with our favorite four. Those are our top four matchups the weekend. Robert, start us out.

I went with Panthers Patriots just because I think it's a really important game for Carolina. I mean, the way they've looked over the first three weeks, I wrote a little bit about them this week on Thursday when I talked about some of the teams that have succeeded and failed without a traditional number one receiver. Yeah. And Carolina has failed. And we've seen, we talked about this all pre-steading. season, right? The idea that the Panthers would have to be a little more creative in their

passing game with Samuel and McCaffrey. And they have been to a point. But the difference to me that I see with the Panthers that I've seen with Tennessee or Kansas City or even New England to a certain degree, these teams that don't have a Julio Jones and Antonio Brown, this guy that I've compared it to like a guy that can get you a bucket in the last minute of a game on his own. That's what a number one receiver is to me. Grunk is that, but he's a tight end. It's a little bit different. They've been able to succeed without those guys. And Carolina, it feels like the stuff they have for McCaffrey, the stuff they have for Samuel, they are packages.

They're not the offense. They're trying to wedge these specific elements into who they are instead of ingraining them into who they are. And I think you've seen the bumps in that road. Cam is a part of that. He's made some bad decisions. He's made some awkward throws. The pick to McCaffrey was the type of stuff we talked about in the preseason against New Orleans.

He throws a bullet to him. three yards off the line of scrimmage and an angle around and it gets picked off. Good stuff. I mean, we don't know how he was going to handle all of this stuff, and it's been a problem. I'm curious to see what they look like against the Patriots defense that has struggled so far. Are they going to be able to move the ball? Is it going to look a little bit more natural? How much does Samuel get involved now that Olson is gone for however long?

We don't know what's going to go on with Kelvin Benjamin here. He's dinged up. So what the Panthers offense looks like against that New England defense, who's been the worst in a leak by advanced metrics through three weeks. That's something I really want to see. Newton coming off three interceptions against the Patriots defense we're not sure about. I'm writing for the ringer.com this week about just this is the week where there's a lot of matchups. We get to learn things about teams we're not sure about.

And I think both of these teams qualify to different degrees. Both of these teams have massive holes. The New England media focus this week on Tom Brady getting hit a lot. I think that's a big deal, man. I think it's a big deal. He's been knocked down 19 times so far. Because he's 40 years old, FYI. And so I'm really fascinated with just where both these teams are going.

And I just want, man, I'm intrigued to see what happens this week because I'm not really sure. I don't know what to expect from either of these teams. I mean, the Patriots could easily be one and two, very, very easily without some incredible Brady heroics. And so now they're going against the Panthers team who, you know, they beat San Francisco, which is fine. But, I mean, last week was kind of worrying for them. You needed that offense to be better against New Orleans. Because you just needed it. That's something you needed to see based on what you have in the first two weeks.

My advice is to not have a horse shit offense when you're playing New Orleans. That's exactly right. Because they're going to score a lot of points. I think that a big part of Brady hit so much last week, you know, Solders banged up. He played, but he wasn't healthy. There was a chance he wasn't going to. Cannon didn't play.

He should be back this week. So if their line gets back, I think they should be okay. You know, that's a situation where it's hard to sustain against that Houston defensive line, no matter who's up front, let alone backups. But you're kind of in the same boat this week, right? Like, Carolina has decent players up there. And if you're not healthy, they're going to beat you up. So I agree.

I think they're going to be fine. I'm not too worried about the Brady hits thing. It's not good to see them get them. But I don't think it's going to be a long-term problem. All right, buddy, what's your first one? Broncos Raiders, because, again, this continues on the theme. This continues on the theme. What do we know about these teams?

Because I thought I knew what both of these teams were on Sunday morning last week, which was the Broncos are going to be steady. Trevor Simeon's going to get you a few plays per game and the defense's going to carry you up. I don't know that anymore because the bill stacked the box and they were like complete crap. The Broncos look at complete crap. The defense wasn't nearly as good as they could have been.

They allowed 26 points. Yeah. So the Raiders, I thought I knew what they were too. I thought they were an offensive juggernaut who would have defensive holes that would show up every once in a while. Gary and Connolly and Obie Malinfollow have both been hurt. Obie will be gone long term. Conley's back practicing.

So I thought they would show up and they would win in Washington 30 to 24, 30 to 21, something like that. That's what we wanted to see. We talked about it last week. We wanted to see the Raiders go in and beat up Washington. And it just didn't happen. Yeah, it did the opposite of happening. It not only didn't happen, didn't come close to happening. And now I don't know what the hell the Raiders are.

I don't remember a time in September. And again, we talk about this all the time. The good teams uses this extended preseason. et cetera, et cetera. But I'm very confused about the NFL right now. The Raiders last week were interesting. I was watching the game and having some conversations about them. And it feels like,

we talked about this before the year that Todd Downey might be an upgrade for them as an offensive coordinator. But he's still first year offensive coordinator. And it felt like all the empty they were doing and throwing five receivers at the problem, even when Washington was bringing a little bit of heat, was that they were trying to get a spark. They're trying to get something going.

And it just wasn't working. Rather than just trusting who they were, they're really pressing to make something happen. I think that was one of the issues. The other thing about this game that I'm interested about, remember that game last year? It was a Sunday night game when Oakland beat up on Denver. Yeah.

And they ran the ball. It was 38 carries among their best three running backs. Latavius Murray went for 100 yards. The Denver defense right now is not a group that's just getting pushed around like it was at times last season. Sure. They've actually stopped the run extremely well. Sean McCoy was tough sledding last week. So the formula that they used to beat the Broncos last year doesn't seem like it will be as readily available.

So I'm curious to see what Oakland's approach will be because we haven't seen them beat a Broncos team the same way we've seen them beat other teams. I can't believe Trevor Simeon is not a great quarterback like he suggested the first two weeks of the season. Well, we're going to get into the Bill's defense here in a little bit when I talk about what to watch for this weekend. But I think that they might be a little better than people think. Yeah, Denver allowing 2.6 yards per carry at this point. So that is best in the league. What's your next game? My next one is Rams Cowboys, which is, even looks weird.

Even like putting it in there seems strange to me. But I really want to see what this Rams team looks like against a real team. Because we haven't really done. I mean, they lost to Washington, but the game was close. I feel like them against Dallas, I want to see what that offense looks like against this Cowboys defense. we'll see what kind of havoc Lawrence can reek. I mean, he's going against Rob Havenstein, probably most of the game. Haven't fine.

He's not an excellent pass blocker by any means. So we'll see how much of an impact he can have. And where the Rams go outside of that? I mean, can they take advantage of a Cowboys secondary? It's still a little banged up, everything else. It's just similar to what you said about Carolina and a lot of teams this week, I want to find out what these teams are, quarterweight in the season. And the Rams playing against the Cowboys, I think is a good opportunity for that.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know what to say about the Rams because that's exactly right. It's hard. There isn't much to say. They look competent. Golf looks so much better. But where are the limitations of that? And I think this is one of those games where you find out.

What the hell? The Rams good because I don't know what to believe. There's a Jets Jaguars game this week that isn't a tire fire. Like what's going on in the NFL? It's a great question. What I do know is my team is still bad. Well, yeah. You can see,

buddy, you can set your watch by that. Exactly. At least there's some things we can still rely on. It's like I went to sleep for 100 years and all of a sudden the jets and the jigs and the jigs are playing and they're both coming off wins. And the Rams are literally the best offense in the league. It's really fun to see how competent the Rams have been.

We talked about this last week and they haven't played this last podcast. We're stuck in the world's most boring black mirror episode. I just, we talked about this. I think McVeigh is really good. I think that they added a ton of weapons. And I feel like they just have a functional NFL offense. It's fun to watch, which is a weird thing. And the idea that they're just kind of force feed girly in the passing game too,

there's so many wrinkles to this that I enjoy. I think that they've approached this in the best way possible. But it's also, McVeigh's been a play call for a couple years now, but with a new team, it's a little bit different. You know, you're going to tailor some stuff to your personnel or whatever.

It's almost like a pitcher with a new, approach that you haven't seen. And then he goes one time through the league and people know what they're looking for. I mean, there's a chance we see that with the Rams. But right now, he's a guy with really good stuff that people aren't ready for. How do you feel with the Wade Phillips revenge game? It's been so long, though. I don't know.

He's been in two different spots. I feel like we're still doing like the Wade Phillips revenge game in like Buffalo still. You know, like I feel like people like Wade Phillips so much. They just want to write about him. Do you think Wade Phillips gives a shit? Wade Phillips does not seem like a man Benton Revenge. I think he does give a shit. Really? Yeah.

I mean, yeah, I think he gives a shit. I have a theory that and by theory, I mean, it's an informed, it's a semi-informed opinion. Coaches really, really care when they get fired a lot more than you think. Yeah, I guess that's fair. Sometimes I'll be talking to a coach

and I'll bring up like, I don't know, it would be like a head coach and then like, I'll bring up a team that he coached that six jobs ago and it'll be like, I'm gonna assholes. Yeah. And I'm like, no one is more salty

than Bruce Ariens in Pittsburgh, though. Bruce Aaron is still so salty. That's not who I was referencing, but I mean, I, that is a classic example, Robert.

And, and, but they're just like, sometimes it's a guy firing me his defensive backs coach. It would be like an ownership group that, you know,

like the owner died 35 years ago. It's a man that loves holding grudges, though. I don't mind that. I really do identify with that inclination, for sure. I hold grudges

and I just forget about them. That's kind of what I'm thinking about Wade. Wade seems to be having a good time. I just forget who I'm angry at. And then I can't get my, am I still angry this person? And I just, I'm nice to them and I go play FIFA and watch the Pacific.

All right. What's our fourth one here? All right. This is another one of these games. Lions, Vikings. I don't know. Is Case Keenham okay? No.

He had $300 and 69 yards last week, Robert. I understand that. I watched the game very closely. Case Keenum is not good. Case can't have threw the ball in the general direction of the players he should have, which that is, that's where I'm capping my support here. All right. So I want to talk about Jeff Fisher for a second.

Jeff Fisher. I would love to see how you get here with this. These are two teams Jeff Fisher has not coached. He coached Case Canem when he coached Jared Gough. Okay, that's fine. Look as incompetent as any quarterbacks have ever seen. They had the worst defense in the league last year. If you haven't noticed, in case you missed it, guys,

Jeff Fisher had essentially this very similar and obviously their offensive line upgrades it got Robert Woods, whatever the past catchers are different. I mean Woods Cup Gerald Everett. The past catchers are entirely different. I understand that. But Woods Cup and Andrew Whitworth do not make you go from 32nd in the NFL to first in the NFL and score.

That is fair. But Sammy Watkins is also good. They've had a lot of players. None of these things take you from 32nd to 31st. That is correct. And more crucially, none of these teams take you, none of those things, and nor to the Minnesota Vikings supporting cast, take you from what Case Kingdom looked like last year to 369 yards and 142 quarterback rating.

What was Jeff Fisher doing last year? It's a very good question. I was really impressed with Minnesota last week, though. I mean, I just, it makes me feel so bad for Sam Bradford more than anything else. Speaking of Jeff Fisher, it makes me feel so bad for Bratford. Radford because like, why the hell can't that guy stay healthy when it matters? The one time, last year, the entire supporting cast around him crumbled. Diggs gets hurt.

The entire offensive line gets hurt. He has no running backs. And then this year, they all look excellent. Both receivers are stellar. He has Delvin Cook now and he's the one that can't stay healthy. It's like, man, that guy, I mean, he could really dry his tears with all the money that he's made and it makes me feel not as bad for him. But still, that is.

is a rough break. That's a tough deal. What do we think about the Lions? I think the Lions are solid, man. He won last week. I think the Lions are solid. I feel like their defense has been better than I thought they were going to be. They're opportunistic.

Austin's been a lot better. I've always liked Glover Quinn as a guy that can just change a game instantly. He's really got a nose for the ball. He did it again last week. I know it was a tipped ball, but still Slay is that guy. I think the defense is better than I thought it was going to be. And the offense is still pretty solid. You know, Stafford makes stuff happen.

I like the supporting cast. I feel like this game has a chance to be really entertaining in a way that I did not. I'm curious to see what that team looks like on the road against this Viking's defense and this Viking secondary who's still pretty good. But I do believe that Detroit's a pretty solid team. I totally agree with you. I mean, I don't know what the hell is going to happen in the NFC North. I assume the Packers are going to run away and hide just from what I've seen.

But on the other hand, man, I mean, the Packers are so banged up right now. If they were playing a decent team, you're three and one. I know. I know. And they're three and one and they have half their team hurt. If it was going to go wrong, it already would have gone wrong. They're going to be just fine. It's kind of terrifying.

Let's talk about the Rogers throw one time for 10 seconds. They won a majority. I put it on a clip of it on Twitter last night. People were like, oh, wasn't that good of a throw? The ball wobbled a tiny bit. He also reset his feet in the pocket barely off one foot, threw the ball on the run while resetting and running up six yards within his own pocket,

throwing it off of a foot without setting. in through 50 yards in the air to a guy that was open. The guy is an alien. I mean, what he's doing right now and what they're able to do without any. They were in their third running back yesterday. They had no offensive tackles. I understand the bears aren't great.

The bears aren't horrendous on defense. They're fine. And the Packers still did what they want. It's ridiculous. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I think when they should they fire John Fox. There's no reason to do before the season ends.

unless they're not going to put your biscuit and there's no reason to do before the season ends yeah what if they don't put your biscuit what is see because the thing is the sort of Rosetta's stone that everybody's talking about is that John Fox waited until week nine to put in Tim Tebow

I just don't know what you need to see he left the door wide open last night they said I mean he's been pretty adamant that Mike Lennon's a starting quarterback probably thinks he's about to get fired which is true right it's just it was awful the fact that you can't

to snap off. That kind of stuff isn't totally unreasonable. They have to take a time out because somebody lined up wrong on a third down. I understand it's Thursday night, get three days to prepare,

whatever. These are backup receivers, everything else. The arguments make sense to me. Still an NFL team. I mean, it's, I've reached my breaking point

with all of this. Uh-oh. What are you going to do? I'm just done. Are you going to stop watching the bears? No, I'm just, I'm going to bitch until Tribiski's in the game.

I mean, that's what I'm going to do. I just, that is the only thing. The fact that they drafted him second overall is actually a great thing for long-suffering Bears fans because no matter how bad it gets, there's still this far-off beacon of hope because he played so well. What about season and because he's a second overall pick? What if he gets in the game and is bad? It doesn't matter.

He's a rookie quarterback without much help on the outside. He can only be so bad for me to be completely disheartened. We saw what Jared Gough did last year. We saw what he's, we see what he's doing now. If you're a rookie quarterback without a great structural support system, I'm not too concerned. I'm not going to toss you out right away. Okay.

All right. I'm rooting for you, buddy. Thanks, bud. I appreciate it. Your support means the world. Okay. It's time for my hottest take that I actually kind of believe. What we're doing here is an informed hot take.

It's not just pulling it out of thin air. We're really trying to make these as informed an opinion as humanly possible. And this one, it's not even a hot take. And I'm not even going that far with it. but I kind of like the Jaguars having a winning record at this point. I mean, they're two and one, and I kind of look at them like I look at the Rams, which is, I mean, when you score points and you blow teams out,

that's usually an indication that you're pretty good. That's the whole thing, you know, that's it. Scoring differential matters, and it's because if you blow teams out, you're usually pretty good. The Jaguars have now won two games by blowouts. Both of them were pretty good. It's not like they were playing the Browns. They beat the Texans.

They beat the Tennessee, who's really good. They beat the Texans, and they beat the Ravens. Both of them in just amazing fashion. I like old 9 and 7 from the Duval crew. I've been impressed. I mean, I think that what we've seen from them, it's mostly about the defense. I think that their formula is correct.

You know, we're going to lean on Fernette, take Bortles out of the game for the most part, except against Baltimore, where you got three good play action passes. And the defense reminds me a little bit, like a morphed version of what happened in the Giants last year. So you have this really big free agent class. Campbell comes in and is playing as well as he's ever played, which is so impressive to get that contract at 30 and be the best version of yourself. Boyer comes in is playing well.

And then you have this stable of young talent with the Giants. It was mostly just landing Collins. With the Jaguars, there's a trio of guys. Dante Fowler looks like a real NFL pass pressure. Which I cannot believe. I mean, it's just, it's remarkable. When you combine that with Campbell and then Yonkin Gokwe is in that group, he was a rookie last season who is fantastic.

He, after week one, I think we're week two, he had the fastest sacks in the league, which I think is a really cool stat because sacks are often misleading. We talked about this. He had cleanup stats. You could hustle sacks, which count. But if you can impact a play instantly, that's so much different. And he's been doing that. And then Miles Jack, I mean, the guy comes off of a devastating knee injury.

people are worried about that understandably. He has a middling rookie year, and he's come in and played extremely well. And what's curious about them right now is they have the worst rush defense in the league and the best past defense. That is a distribution that I enjoy. Past defense to me matters much more

than if you can stop the run. And the fact that they have Jalen Ramsey and Boy, back there, the safeties are solid. Colvin's a decent nickel corner. Their linebackers can cover with Smith and Jack. It's a perfect past defense as it's currently constructed. and again, on paper, who knows, but it came together.

It looks exactly how they want it to. It's going to be fun to watch them for the rest of you. I said Doug Moran was a good coach on one of these pods. I think it was a couple of us were on the same pod over the off season. Well, I was ripped so thoroughly that I had to couch it in a hundred different ways. But I'm back. I'm back, baby. Doug Moran rules.

I'm proud of you. All right, Robert. Week four, it's time for our what are we missing of the week? And that's just, we're all looking at all the big storylines, but Robert Mays, you've got something we need to keep our eye on. This one's kind of fascinating to me. I mean, it's Atlanta's offense against Buffalo's defense. And we talked about this a little bit before with Denver not looking very good last week,

but the bills have been very surprising. We talked about this with Danny a little bit earlier in the week, just kind of the formula buffalo is used to look like this. And it's outside of what you normally expect from Doug or Doug McDermint. It is, right? It is. It is. It's never the way you'd expect from Doug.

But what Sean McDermine did in Carolina was pretty conservative defensively. You know, we saw them issue cornerback value for a long time. They waited in the draft. They let Josh Norman walk. And then they go out and get Trudevius White in the first round this year. And what they've done is kind of perform this aggressive style of defense that's really conducive to the players that they have. So looking at this game, it's kind of weird because McDermott was the coordinator in Carolina. He has how many games against Atlanta under his belt?

He has at least four games with this current version of Atlanta's offense, if you consider this an extension of the Shanahan one. But in reality, I think that what Atlanta might be better off doing in formulating their game plan is looking at what they did against Denver last year. It's a very similar style. So you have five-man pressures a lot. They're bringing one extra guy. And then you have physical man-to-man defense on the outside

and a defense that has their worst past defenders on the inside of the line. backer. So I feel like traditionally you see Atlanta kind of spread teams out, everything else, try to hit those soft coverages in the zone, which you saw Julio do a ton in that 300-yard game last year. But it feels like this year we could see, I guess McDermott, a version of that approach where they use both backs as pass catchers. So you had those formations where Coleman and Freeman were both on the field.

You had Coleman in the slot, sometimes Freeman, and a real way to spread those guys out and man and take advantage of those matchups. I feel like that's not something we would have seen a lot against Carolina because they're just not that style of defense. They tear up yards after catch. But with the type of style of Buffalo is playing, so much man, so much extra pressure, it just feels like that's the way to go about it. Because if I told you before the season that Atlanta's receivers might be a stalemate against Buffalo's corners, you would have laughed at me. But White and Gaines are playing so well that it just feels like that's not the way to attack the bills, which I never would have thought coming into the season. Sean McDermott's a good coach.

Yeah. It's funny. I like seeing guys that can be flexible that can say, I don't have to be this because I've been this. I want to see what our guys do well and what we should attack teams with. Yeah.

And that's the amazing thing. I was up there in August in Buffalo and Rochester when they were in training camp. And we were just talking, McDermott's one of these guys who, I don't want to, he's obsessed with culture. And that's why he wanted to get Samuel Watkins out of there.

That's why if they could have cut some more guys they would have as far as you know there's some guys on big money contracts I think that they didn't tell me this but that's that's the the the vibe by God is that they wish they could have overhauled the roster completely. Marshal Darrys probably would not be there. The Whaley contract sort of saddled them with some some really tricky situations and so they got rid of who they wanted to get

rid of and then they were just going to go forward and I was surprised I had said in the middle of the of the off season that I thought that the bills had a chance to really compete for a playoff spot, had they not gone in direction they went in. But maybe we were wrong. Maybe Sammy Watkins, maybe there's some Ewing theory with Sammy Watkins or Ronald Darby, who obviously has been injured in Philadelphia.

And so I think that there's a, I'm just really impressed with that new regime. It took them five seconds to compete. It's great. I think it's just the level of talent they've already gotten. And knowing the players that they want. I mean, the fact that they, we talk about that Watkins trade like it was for a second round pick,

They got gains back. Yep. He's been really good. I know he's on a contract year. So, I mean, it's not as if he's guaranteed to be there for long term. It's not that valuable of an asset, but he's been a solid player for them already. And then trading down from 10 to 27 and getting white and getting another first round pick next year, it looks pretty damn good so far. Yeah.

I mean, it's, it's, I'm, I'm so impressed. I love all. I love Brandon Bean, even though he wasn't in charge of the draft. I love Sean McDermott. I'm, I'm made on the bills. Yeah, it's been a fun team to watch so far. I'll be curious to see what Humberg can do, what Roman Hummer can do against those running backs this week.

I think they might struggle more than they have. But this is a matchup I would not have been interested in before the season. I definitely am. Having said all this about the bills, I think maybe the Falcons might blow them out. I don't know if it'll blow them out. That's kind of what I'm saying. I think it might be closer than people would think just because of how good

that Bill's defense has been. So we'll see if they can travel. You know, that's a question. They played Denver at home last week, but Atlanta is a tough thing to do on the road. It's going to be a fun one, though. Robert, when we're traveling around the country on last minute trips during the NFL season, what's the worst part? It's definitely waking up in New York after a 9-ish-Nales concert, not being able to record the podcast.

That was the worst one. That is a 100% true story. Okay, what's the second worst thing? I would say finding a good hotel. I mean, that's always a problem for me. Right, but that changes now because we've got hotel tonight. It's an app that helps you find great hotel deals at the last minute. Yeah, it's pretty great.

Unlike flights, hotel rooms actually get cheaper at the last minute. And Kevin, I know that you need your super cool rooms. And I know that this might be a problem with other services, but it's not here. But what if you actually do have some time to plan, Robert? You're still good to go. Even though it's called Hotel Tonight, you actually book your room up to a week in advance. And it all takes up to 10 seconds. Just three taps and a swipe.

So download the Hotel Tonight app now. Okay, it's time to welcome in our in-house, Ringer General Manager, Michael Lombardi. Welcome to the show, Michael. Hello, Kevin. Hello, Robert. How are you? You alive, Robert? So much of me has died.

including my soul. Physically it has as well, but I think my soul is mostly just black and blue and curdled at this point, so it's hard to hurt me anymore. Yeah, I can understand that. That was painful last night. That was really painful.

Yeah, we've chatted about it. I'm all set with everything that's going on. Oh, good. I won't bring up old wounds then. Thanks, buddy. So, Mike, we talked about what Nod weekend, week three was. I think it's pretty well known at this point.

And so many teams need to bounce back week. We were talking earlier, the Jets and the Jaguars are playing this week, and we're not even sure that's a bad game. Like, that's how weird the NFL has gotten. So there are teams that need, good teams need to bounce back week, probably no one more than the Steelers and the Ravens.

Yeah. The Ravens who lost the aforementioned Jaguars. Tell us about that game what you're looking at there. Well, you know, this is an interesting game. The Ravens have been able to dominate in their stadium. I think they have a six-game or seven-game winning streak in their own stadium, so they've been really playing well at home. Next week they have to travel.

I mean, the NFL is amazing. They send the Ravens to London. a week ago, they bring them home to play another game against the division arrival of the Steelers, and oh, next week, they've got to go out to Oakland. So this is like a really huge game for them. I mean, and they have to be able to play a style against Pittsburgh that they usually do at home, which means Flacco can't throw it 40 times. Anytime Flacco throws it 40 times, the Ravens are going to be in trouble. They've got to find a way to run the run. I'm sure the Steelers will do a better job of defending the run than they did against the Bears. You'd hope so. You'd think so, right? And so I think the key to the key.

of this game's going to be, Big Ben has turned a ball over. The Steelers' offense has turned a ball over seven times in the last three games in Baltimore. And I think that's really what it's going to come down to. It's going to come down to the Steelers. Can they hold on to the ball? And Leveon Bell hasn't had his best game against the Ravens in Baltimore has been 73 yards in 2013. So it isn't like he's been dominating either. So I think this is one of those rivalries that goes back and forth that comes down to

turnovers. It comes down to the special teams. I think Baltimore can eke this one out, though. Are you worried when you say that, and it just feels like what we've seen in the first three weeks, that makes sense. But how worried are you about the Steelers' offense? I mean, do you feel like this is something that is going to continue? Do you think it's just early season hiccups? I mean, how bad is it right now?

Well, when you watch the tape, I mean, you saw the Bears game. I think Ben missed from the open throws. I mean, Ben has not played well. I think when you look at that draft class, Ben, Eli, and Philip Rivers, none of these guys are played well. I mean, Ben has played better than the other two, but they haven't played well. And Ben hasn't played to the level. I think he's been at in prior years. And so to me, the Steelers have always had a problem of protecting the football when they play Baltimore.

And if they don't protect the football, they're not going. And Bell's got to get going. They really haven't been able to get their running game going. They haven't been able to really get into a rhythm on offense. I mean, the first week against Cleveland, okay, it's the first week. The second week, not so good. The third week really bad. So, I mean, this is a time where their offense needs to turn it on.

But I don't know if Ben's there as he was in the past. When you talk about retirement, you really are retired. Yeah, I remember that. You know this, as well as anybody being in the front office. The moment someone starts talking about it in their mind, they have retired. Yeah, I just, to me, and he hasn't played, like the first play of the Bears game, he's got a guy wide open and he doesn't make the throw. You know, and look, they beat Minnesota with Case Keenham, who Case Keenham has come back

and played well the next week, but so I don't want to discount that win at home against Minnesota, but they just haven't been in a rhythm. And I think it starts with the fact that they haven't been able to control the line of scrimmage and get their running game going and get balance. I think both quarterbacks in this game can't throw the ball 40 times. I mean, I think that's really clear. And the Steelers have to be able to get Bell going against a really good Raven run defense that didn't play good last week against the Jaguars. Braynor Williams be back this week?

I'm told yes, but, you know, who knows? I think the Ravens feel like he can. I don't know if that's going to happen or not. He hasn't practiced yet, it looks like. That's a big thing. We saw how important he is. That's the key to what they're doing defensively. But, you know, the one thing about the Ravens is this is, I think they kind of locked off

that trip to Jacksonville. You know, they practiced too much. They didn't really have the routine down. What they can't let the Jacksonville loss cost them to another loss. They can't like live in that loss anymore. And they've got to move forward. And I think it starts with, they've got to be able to do something on offense that doesn't involve Flacco having to carry low.

And they can't play from behind. I mean, this is a team. cannot play from behind. It also looks like Toot and Water are going to be back for Pittsburgh, which I know two players don't make the difference, but having toot back in the middle of that defense, it mattered last week. They missed him against Chicago,

and I think that having him back is going to matter if the Ravens do sit there and just try to lean on the run. Well, look, the inside of this Raven offensive line is Sir Kerr, number 68, 74, Hirst, and 66 Jensen. I mean, those guys are not really good. I mean, it's hard to win with that as your inside offensive line. That's the problem, and they have to, their offensive line has taken a huge amount of

injuries and they haven't been able to overcome them because it's hard to find lineman out on the street. The Yanda injury has really affected them. And I think that's really going to be the biggest issue is can they block the Steelers? I mean, Hargrave is a sneaky good player for Pittsburgh, too. I love him. And when Toot comes back, that makes Hargrave even better. He's able to do a lot of stuff. I just feel like even as a pass rush, he pushes the pocket well. They've done a good job getting guys on that front. I mean, they struggled in that spot for a while. I feel like there was a gap after kind of the Casey Hampton stretch where they didn't have many good players up there, and I think that they've hit it right now.

I mean, him, two, it, everything else. They're going to be a problem. It's weird that four weeks into the season, I feel much better about the Steelers' defense when they're healthy than I do about the offense. Yeah, well, you know, it all depends on how the Steelers want to play. I mean, last week they didn't defend the run worth of darn, and this week, can they defend the passing game against the Ravens? I mean, Flacco's had nine touchdowns in the last three games against them four interceptions.

I mean, look, the Ravens have to be careful what they do offensively because their lines a problem, flacco's a problem, and the consistency in what they do is a problem. And I think that helps the Steelers' defense as they start to get accustomed. And I think some of those players, Wilcock had an interception last week. I think you see Hayden start to get more comfortable with what they're trying to do. I think there's a little bit of more comfort in their secondary because they have some experience and not relying on those young players all the time. Many teams need to make a statement after week three.

Who else stands out to you, Mike? Who really needs a win? I think the Battle of Ohio is an interesting game. Okay, I know. I think that, you know, look, if you're Marvin Lewis and you come home and you lose to Cleveland on the road, I mean, you're saying to yourself, look, you know, you've talked about retirement, you talked about an extension. I mean, where are you going with this football team, right? You lose to Cleveland. You're a better team.

I mean, this Bengal team, I know people focus on their injuries. This is not a bad team at all. No. And they've got a lot of good young players. I mean, and so for me, if I'm Marvin, this is a must-refer. win for me. Because if I want to keep coaching past 2017, I got to win this game. Now, I know it's against the Browns and everybody take, but if you lose to the Browns, it's like Chuck Pagano. If he would have lost to the Browns, like you're now at a situation where you got to fire the guy.

I mean, you know he's, whether you're going to make it or not. And so these kind of games are really like, these are the most stressful games the coach can have. And if you're the Browns and you're Hugh Jackson at some point, you've got to say to yourself, I can win a game because I'm I could out-scheme somebody. I could out-coach somebody. I mean, the excuses are running out in Cleveland. At some point, you know, you're won in, what did we, one in 18 of the last 19 games? Yeah.

You know, what direction are you saying we're going in if you lose to Cincinnati who's 0-1-3-2? So to me, the Battle of Ohio is going to be the most interesting game. You're saying the Browns are like Kentucky and the SEC or something, or as soon as you lose to them, you're just out. Well, I mean, I think when your coach is on a hot seat or your team's very, very concerned, concerned mentally, and they're fragile in what they want to do. I think when you lose to a team like the Browns, you can. And look, I think the Bengals could be good on defense. I think they played Green Bay really well. I agree. I think that they've done a better job offensively with laser than they did with Zampi. They try to at least run an offense as opposed to just run a bunch of

plays. So I'm not as down on Cincinnati, but to me, if they lose to Cleveland, then you have to say, wait a minute. You know, the thing about football, it's either players, coaches, or schemes. And so you try to, most of the time, that three dimensions creates problems. And I think that when you lose to Cleveland, you kind of say to yourself, we have better players in Cleveland. Did we get out coach? Do we get out scheme? And that becomes the problem. Mike, what about the Seahawks?

I don't know what to make a Seattle. I really don't. I mean, Seattle's a team that I have, I thought they're going to turn the corner. And they have never been a great September team. I mean, they have never been. I think Pete Carroll's, you know, is 15 and 10 in the month of September, something like that. He hasn't been great. I think it's time to turn around.

I mean, they can't handle Indianapolis at home. Okay. In Indianapolis, who's the number one team in the league in running the ball on first down, which is exactly what Seattle wants you to do is being second in 10 and second and 12. So I just think to me at some point they got to start playing good. And they got to find their niche, and right now they haven't. And Indianapolis is the perfect team to play if you're looking to find your niche. Bucks?

I don't know what to make in the bucks. But that's the entire NFL right now. I don't know what to make. I mean, the Bucs are the entire NFL. I mean, I thought the Bucs. I mean, I thought the Bucks looked like, I mean, they played the Bears in week two, which was their week one. I was all fired up about the Bucks. I mean, what the hell happened?

I think the Bucks are James Winston's personality. They have some moments and then they kind of fall apart a little bit. But I have faith in Winston to kind of rally the troops. And this is going to be a really tough game because they got New England on Thursday night. So you got, you know, you're sitting here. You better beat the Giants because then all of a sudden you got New England coming in. And your season could be very, very difficult. And then, of course, you're the Giants.

I mean, look, I think Tampa at home's a better team. I'm going to go with Winston, especially against the Giants. I think he can play better. But, you know, that first week, Miami had a good first. They shouldn't have won Miami. They didn't play well. Miami lost last week to the Jets. But Tampa in their week's one win was impressive.

And without having Grimes, I think it hurts. And not having David, I think that hurts as well. And then the guys up front too. I mean, it's also, you know, that Spence went out early in the game. There's so many elements there. But also, Mike, James made four throws in that game. you cannot make. He does it all the time, though, Robert.

And the thing is, is I've stopped picking on him for it because he's like Phil Mickelson. He bogies two holes and comes back in Bertie's three. I mean, he has no, I mean, you've got to get him to control the ball. I'm 100% with you. But he has done this his whole life and he's been able to get away with it. I don't know if he can keep doing it. I think the concern if you're Tampa, McCoy's got to come up and really put some pressure,

especially against this giant line. They have one sack. Spence probably isn't going to play this week, and he's the only guy with a sack on their team. Robert, what happens when you boogie? you two holes. I go start drinking. Exactly. See, and this guy here, he just comes right back and keeps playing.

I mean, you can't ever count them down and at home. They're a different team. I think they'll be really ready to play the Giants. I think this will be a game where the bucks will take seriously, and I think the bucks will rally to the occasion. God, that's such infuriating way to play. I just, like, I understand

that, and I think their offense is a super high ceiling, and I guess you have to live with it, but I rolled the J-Color coaster for 10 years, I mean, it's, I hate that. I mean, it's, it's frustrating. It's so frustrating to see them clicking and see them moving. And then on the third down, when he's getting pulled down when they're in field go range, he throws it up for grabs.

Yeah, no. And it's just like, it's like, good, God, man. Like, it, just, why? Just this, this 2% that I don't want you to be. Just do not be that. And that's going to be his thing. I mean, but that's why he's always been. I mean, past performance predicts future achievement.

And his past performance at Florida State was he always through the interceptions. And you kind of wanted to. ding him for it, but what I've learned about watching them play is doesn't affect him. He's got a great camarader with this team. He's a great leader. The team buys into him. So unlike Cutler, when he throws an interception, he doesn't go in the tank, he kind of comes back and bounces back.

Mike, one question for you. We talked a little bit about, you know, and we've talked about it all year about how September is so weird because of the lack of practice time, all that. Roster construction-wise, was it different for you after the 2011 CBA than it was? than it was before because you knew that September was going to be weird. I mean, did you make different personnel moves? Well, I think, you know, the thing that helps you is you get more guys on practice squad. So you can't really, and you have to have a coaching staff that's willing to change in September.

And I think if you have those two things, you have a chance to get better. The problem is, is getting the young players better in September because you only have one pad at practice. I know Dan Quinn has tried to put in front of the competition committee. He sent a letter to the competition committee trying to urge the league. office to be able to put the offense and defensive linemen in pads for more than one practice during the season to see if they can improve the quality of play of the line. I don't think that'll grain legs because I don't think anybody wants to do that, especially from the player's standpoint. But I think it's something they should consider. And I definitely think it's something they should

consider in the offseason in terms of bringing in an offense and a defensive lineman before. But the construction of your roster has to be fluid in September because you really don't know. You're now evaluating players. You know what? In the preseason, a guy looks really good, but then all of a sudden in week two of the season, he doesn't look nearly as good. You better make that roster move because what you saw in the summer isn't really who he is. Did you just break news in the Dan Quinn thing? Is that out there? I don't know.

I don't even know. I'm Googling it. I think Michael Lombardi broke some nuggets. You get nuggets here on the ringer NFL show. Thank you, Michael. You're welcome. I mean, anything I could do to help, you know, but that's what he's trying to do. I just want to just break everything else.

I understand. I understand why he wants to do it. I understand why players don't want to do it. I don't even have. I don't know if the players don't. I'm not sure if the players' executive committee. I mean, it's a concession they would have to make. But Quinn is really, I mean, he's on top of it. He wants to try to do it. And I think he's right about it. I mean, he definitely sees it as an opportunity to, you know, he's looking at his football team and he's trying to improve his team and he doesn't have enough. You know, people don't understand. Football is a mathematical problem. So you only have so many reps. You only have so much time. And if you have all these players, you can't get it all fixed into the situation. and that's where it becomes a problem. And he's trying to add more time to his mathematical problem. Okay, Michael, thank you so much for dropping by.

Any other news you'd like to break? No, I think good Belichick stories, no one knows. Just get them all out. I have a lot of those. Just get them all out. I have a lot of those. They're good. Thanks, Kev.

Thanks, Robert. Thanks, Mike. A lot of people say that fall is their favorite season. For us, it's the busiest time of year. It's still my favorite season, though. I love the fact that there's a chill in the air right now. The best part, though, is football is back, first and foremost. And with all the obligations we have on top of that, sometimes it's hard

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code the ringer. Now let's welcome in our good friend, the ringer's own Danny Kelly. A big part of deciding who to start in fantasy football is analyzing the matchup. So Danny's broken down every single matchup in the NFL this week. He hasn't slept. Danny, have you slept? Not much, guys. I live for this fantasy

football stuff. It's grinding. Yeah, that's fine. Vampire status is what we want these days. All for our benefit. So Danny, what are the best not-so-obvious matchups at each position for week four? Yeah, let's start with quarterback. And first of all, I didn't actually expect to say this guy's name much this year, but I'm kind of looking at the Carson Palmer.

Kind of looking at the Carson Palmer match up this week, you guys. They got the, they're hosting the 49ers. So far, I'll give you some stats. The 49ers have given up 102.7 quarterback rating against. They've given up six touchdown passes. They're 30th in the NFL against the pass per DVA so far. Clearly, you know, that Carson Palmer's got some issues with his offensive line, and that's probably not going to go away.

But I think we saw him. He looks pretty dang good last week against Dallas. He was throwing the ball downfield. I saw Sandow posted a stat the other day that Palmer is second in the NFL in throws downfield 15 yards or more. He's got 25 of those. And he's second to Brady so far. So, I mean, the Cardinals can still throw the ball deep. I just like that match.

I think he could get into the end zone a couple of times. And I just think the 49ers, they have a good pass rush, but that's about all they have. And I, Potty should be back this week, too, which he's not a great pass protector. but it still is a guy who has played before and is going against that very good interior line for San Francisco. Yeah, exactly. I'll get some experience back. You know, their tackles have been a problem.

But I think, you know, just Palmer's good enough to kind of compensate for that. And again, I can't believe I'm going with this guy. But yeah, I think he looked pretty good last year. So I'm going with him for kind of a, you know, he's not an obvious. He's not an obvious start, but I think he could have big numbers. All right, running back, Danny. Give us to Carson Palmer of running. backs.

I definitely wouldn't say Christian McCaffrey is the Carson Palmer of running backs, but if you look at that matchup there against the Patriots, game script-wise, I think, you know, it could be a kind of game where the Panthers, sorry, have to throw the ball kind of a lot to kind of keep up and all that. Last year, last week he had over 100 yards receiving. You know, Kelvin Benjamin's knee is still a question mark. I think he's going to play, but, you know, who knows how much he's going to, how many snaps he's going to get.

I think McCaffrey could be kind of a big target there. And I saw this Staprev and Silva. The Patriots have allowed, they allowed 808 receiving yards to running backs last year, and they've allowed so far an AFC high, 253 yards to running backs this year. So they have a lot of trouble defending guys out of the backfield. So I think it could be a big game for him. Patriots defense, it just hasn't looked good so far, guys. And I think, you know, even if the Panthers are winning, you know, he could get some running,

he could get some, you know, totes on the ground, too. And so he's got some value in both, you know, the air and on the ground. He had 11 targets last week. And I know that Benjamin was out, whatever, but Func just had 10. It wasn't as if they went away from the wide receivers necessarily.

Funcest seemed to get Benjamin's target share. They really want to make McCaffrey the focal point of that receiving game. And I think if they're losing, he's going to get the same amount of work. They're going to hammer him hard pretty much all season, it feels like. Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, he was getting like vertical routes,

last week. So, you know, he's been exactly kind of, I think, what everyone thought he would be, like, a very dynamic, versatile player for him. All right, wide out. Well, this one is pretty, I mean, it's not like a surprise. AJ Green, I think, has a good match upon paper this week against the Browns. You know, with Ken Zampesey taking over, it was clear last week that they're going to feed AJ Green. I think he had 11 targets. That's exactly what the, that's exactly what the Bengals need to do. I mean, I don't know why they weren't doing it earlier. Right now, the Brown, excuse me, are 31st in the NFL against number one receivers per football

outsiders. So, I mean, he's, he's bound to get a lot of action. He's bound to get plenty of targets. And I don't know. Who on that team really can defend him? I mean, the answer is nobody. And it just feels like when your offense is stuttering, when your offense is sputtering and you don't have any sort of identity or any sort of thing you can rely on, isn't throwing

the ball to the guy who is from outer space, like 15 times a game, not the worst approach? I just don't understand why they, don't lean on him when they don't have anything else. Yeah, I mean, it just doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, we saw the Texans do it with DeAndre Hopkins a couple of weeks ago. I just don't understand why teams that are struggling when they have an all-world receiver like Green or Hopkins, like, just feed the guy. Let him get open.

Let him make big plays. That's why you're paying him. That's why he's one of the best receivers in the NFL. So, yeah, I think Green could have a big week. It's not, you know, that's not like a sleeper pick by any means, but I think he's due for a big one. Tight end, Danny. This one is another guy that I probably never would have thought I was going to recommend because he's in the Seahawks offense,

and I just don't trust the Seahawks offense all that much very often. But Jimmy Graham this week, I think, has a good match up against the Colts. Seahawks are always really good at home, and they're even better at home in prime time. And so I think the Seahawks are going to be, you know, I think their offense is going to look a lot better this week. They just tend to play better at home. they're in like I said in prime time.

Last week, Graham had seven catches for 72 yards on 12 targets. That's clear indication. They're trying to get him more involved. He's clearly feeling a little bit better from he was banged up early on in the year. I think he had a knee injury. And so it looked clear that he was a bigger part of the offense. I saw a stat from pro football ball focus is Scott Barrett. Graham is fourth among tight ends and targets this year with 20

and second among all players in end zone targets with five. he's due for a touchdown. I mean, they just need to get him involved in, you know, inside the 10-yard line in the end zone. And right now, the Colts are 26 against tight ends per DVOA. So that's looking like a good matchup. I think the CUC's going to feed him and he could have a big day. Yeah, they're really looking to him down there. I remember they missed that fade last week against Tennessee.

I mean, he's a focal point of what they want to do around the goal line. It doesn't work very well, but they want to feed him there. Did they miss the fade because we're in year 85 of no fades ever being completed ever? Two fades. You can throw fades to two people with Michael Crabtree and O'Dell Beckham. That's it. End of list. Yeah. Well, I wrote an article last year about the fade being trash. I offered a couple of caveats. If you have Des Bryant, if you have a couple of these guys that are just, yeah, like, if you have a couple of these guys that are just, you know, you can't match up with them down there.

And Jimmy Graham is one of those guys. I don't mind. I don't care. Throw it to him whenever. But yeah, I think, I think Graham, they obviously know they need to use him in the red zone. and hopefully they'll get it figured out this week. Okay, defense. I mean, I'm looking at the Jags. I mean, they're playing the Jets. And I know that I was defending the Jets offense last time I talked to you guys, but I don't know how the Jets are going to move the ball against this defense.

I mean, they've got two really, really good corners. I haven't seen the update on Jalen Ramsey, but I'm assuming he's playing. And I just don't know how guys like Robbie Anderson and Jermaine Curse are going to be able to really, you know, just get open. against Jalen Ramsey and AJ Bui. I mean, it's just when you add in the pass rush, I think it's going to be a long day for the Jets.

I'm starting to be a believer in this Jags defense, you guys. I know that over the past couple of years, it's been like one of those things where they look really good on paper and all that, but these guys, I mean, they look legit to me. If the Jags defense is available in your fantasy football league, leave, stop listening to the podcast right now, open a tab wherever you play and add them to whoever. you can kick out whoever your defense is unless it's Denver.

Go get the Jags defense if you can. Do it. Listen to Robert. He's a cool dude. Good one. Thanks, Kev. Yeah, no problem. All right.

Thank you, Danny, for joining us. Everyone's going to win their league now. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Danny. Okay, week four is upon us, Robert. All that's left for us to do is watch the football games. But after it all shakes out, what's next week's biggest headline? the same thing you start us out i mean i think that there's only one answer to this it's going to be more

about what happens before the game you know we saw both teams yesterday stand arms linked on the sideline the saints announced today through drew breeze that they were going to kneel before the anthem stand during the anthem the broncos the broncos said the same thing yep so we just you know these are i feel like teams coming out and making their intentions known two days before these games happen is all you need to know about how much interest they're still going to be i mean we've talked about this a lot, Kevin. I don't know if there's anything else to say about the protest themselves and what they mean, but it definitely

is where people's eyeballs are going to be. It's where the interest is going to be. I think there is one wrinkle to this, which is that what if you're on the Broncos or on the Saints and you want to protest? That is the biggest question. That's just such an undercut where you get, I mean,

I think it's going to be really, really fascinating to see what happens in the next couple of weeks if there are some players who have, who have protester from the jump, really, who are on the Broncos. And, you know, I think, you know,

Brandon Marshall. Brandon Marshall, Vaughn Miller last week was, you know, taking a knee with his fist in the air. Even though the players commented publicly and said, we're doing this as a team, I still think there's going to be some trepidation. And I'm intrigued to see if any of the teams who have, quote, unquote, announced that they're all standing as a team.

I'm not even sure how you do that. The Broncos thing was unsigned, by the way. But at least Drew Bree's, put his name on it in New Orleans. But I just think if you're a player who wants to do it, I mean, what happens if you do it? Yeah. I mean, it's tough. I understand wanting to present a United Front, all those things.

But it does feel like they're kind of stamping out anybody that wants to go make a statement and do so in a way that matters and that they should make. It's tough. I mean, they're putting their players in difficult positions. And I don't know. I mean, we're going to watch that. We're going to listen to what players have to say after the game, the same way we have. same we did last week. I mean,

that's going to matter. I mean, I feel like, heavy, can you remember a week like we saw last Sunday where you were as curious about what was going to come out after games as you were about what happened during the game? It doesn't happen.

It doesn't happen. I mean, it's, we're an uncharted territory. And that uncharted territory is continuing this week. I mean, as much as, you know,

we just spent an hour talking about the actual football that's going to happen. There's a ton of interesting stuff. None of it holds a, candle to the interest that's going to be derived from what's going to happen before the game. Well said. That's it for today. We'll be back on Tuesday with the wrap of the week four in the NFL. As always, thanks for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. Thanks guys. Things change. The weather changes. Your mood definitely changes. So why lock yourself into plans that might change? With hotel tonight, you don't have to because you'll get incredible deals on awesome hotels

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