The Ringer NFL Show - Greg Olsen on the GOAT TE, Russell Wilson, and More. Plus, the Latest Offseason News.

Episode Date: May 25, 2022

Kevin is joined by former NFL tight end and current Fox Sports analyst Greg Olsen to talk about Russell Wilson, almost being a Patriot, and TEU. Then he is later joined by Nora and Ben to discuss the latest offseason news, including about the Pro Bowl, the Steelers, and the 49ers-Jimmy G. saga. Host: Kevin Clark, Nora Princiotti, and Ben Solak Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Chris Martin, and me and my buddy Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O Everything, host an NBA podcast called The Mismatch. They call it The Mismatch because I'm awesome and Kevin is a gigantic nerd. No, no, that's not why at all, Chris. They call it the Mismatch because I have a brain and you're a loudmouth bozo. Good grief. Anyway, listen to our amazing NBA podcast, The Mismatch. Or don't.

We really don't care. We're probably going to win a million awards either way. Chris, we do care. So don't say that. Please subscribe and listen to the mismatch only on Spotify. Did you really call me a bozo? It is the Ringer NFL show. Part of the Ringer podcast Network.

I am Kevin Clark. Two segments today. Great show. First, Greg Olson, longtime NFL tight end. Current Fox broadcaster. He joins me to talk about a whole bunch of issues. His friend Russell Wilson, former teammate in Denver, AFC West expectations,

how he almost became. a Patriot, what he's going in in production meetings this year some thoughts on the Panthers, really needy discussion

with Greg. I love talking to him. And then Ben Solak and Nora Princiotti joined me to round out the episode with a big picture conversation on some of things

that have happened this week. Omar Khan is hired as Steelers GM kind of a new structure there. Jimmy Garapolo, offensive staff with the Patriots.

A lot to get to. Let's start with Greg. Greg Olson, longtime NFL tight end, current Fox broadcaster. He's here with Tideon University, T-E-U, presented by a Charmin.

Greg, what's going on, buddy? How we doing? Thanks for having me on. I'm so excited to have you on for a lot of reasons. First of all, it's two canes chopping it up, which is important. Love that. You got to take all those opportunities where you can get it.

But you've done so much. One of the things that you and I've talked in the past, but in Charlotte and elsewhere, just the owner's meetings a couple weeks ago. But when I'm preparing for a guest, I try to listen to all the podcasts that they do. Just to know what they want to talk about, what they don't want to talk about. Just sort of get it.

And with you, it was honestly a mistake because you do, you have so many podcasts. You have done so many different things around Dale in our junior's podcast. You have a youth sports podcast. I just listened to the Cooper Manning episode about five minutes ago. You have such a range adverse interest. And I'm curious with your first year out of football and probably the first time you haven't played football in 20 years, What did you like? What did you not like?

What did you learn about football? What was retirement like for you in year one, Greg? Well, I learned that retirement is sometimes busier than when you actually had a full-time job. As you said, I've got a lot of different things going on and a lot of different interests. But it's really just a lot of things that, you know, while I was playing and while I was so, you know, kind of just so involved every on a daily basis with football and training and getting ready for the season and the offseason. kind of that 12-month kind of cycle of what was playing in the NFL, you know, there's a lot of things that got put on the back burner. So I think now, you know, I'm doing a lot of, you know, as you mentioned, I'm working

with Fox calling games, which has been a blast. We got T.EU coming up in a couple weeks. And at the end of the month, I got my podcast. You know, so we got a lot of different things. We obviously spend a lot of time, you know, with our kids, playing sports, coaching. So I got I got plenty of things to do now in quote-unquote retirement to keep me busy. one of the guests on that aforementioned youth sports podcast is Russell Wilson, your former teammate, your friend. I don't help me here because everyone keeps making a Tom Brady comparison where he goes to the bucks, that roster is ready, and they immediately are contenders.

The difference is now that he's in the AFC West where I could see that going any of four ways, frankly, with injuries and luck or whatever. Russell Wilson going to the Broncos with that roster and that division does what to the 2022 season? How good will this team actually be, Greg? I think that's yet to be kind of determined. I think they have a lot of talent. I think on paper they're young. They're talented in the right spots. They got some good offensive weapons.

They got a good secondary. They got a couple of young pass rushers. You know, they're built, you know, they're built in the mold that when you add a franchise, you know, one of top tier, Hall of Fame caliber quarterback to the mix, you know, they're a team that you'd say, yeah, they're immediately a contender. You know, when you looked at them last year, we actually called some of their games. I called their game in Dallas. You know, you could take a look.

And Teddy did a good job. He actually played great that game. They ended up blowing out the Cowboys, actually. But, you know, you can kind of look and say, they got a lot of young pieces here. Are they a quarterback away? And you brought up the Brady comparison down in Tampa. I'm not sure if the roster is that good. I think that that roster that Brady joined was very talented.

They had a lot of good pieces on defense, you know, his offensive, weapons and the offensive line. I mean, they, they were a really talented team that, you know, when you add now Tom Brady to the mix, they became, you know, as we all saw, the Super Bowl champ. So I don't know if they're that good. And then, like you said, that division, the quarterbacks in that division are off charts, right?

I mean, you got Herber, you got Mahomes. I mean, they're, you know, car. I mean, they got four real dudes in that division now. So that's going to be, you know, you're going to have six, six games a year that are going to be a bloodbath. But he's used to that. You know, when he was out west in the NFC, it was no different for him.

So, you know, he's not going to shy away from that, but that's going to be a gauntlet of a divisional, of a divisional schedule. And, you know, time will tell how it all unfolds. Tell me about TEU. I saw Josh Allen's going to be there. Zach Wilson has been bullied into it, apparently. He's leaving Cabo for it.

What is this like and why do you guys do it? Yeah, so it started last year kind of organically on a whim, talking with George Kittle and Travis Kelsey just about getting together and, you know, what our options look like. I wonder how many guys we could get, you know, just kind of throwing, tossing it around coming down to Nashville. And little did we realize we were going to get 50 guys to show up. And it was a great run.

We had a great event. And, you know, we're going to do it again this year. And Sharman came on as our title sponsor, which gives us a lot of opportunities to put the guys up in hotels and fun, you know, get transportation and get guys around town to the different things that we have set up and Bud Lights coming back for another year. So we got some really cool partners that make this all work. And we think we're going to have 75, maybe 80 guys when it's all set and done, down in Nashville for two and a half days, training, classroom work, field work, you know,

some stuff off the field. We're going to go out and kind of spend some time together and enjoy Nashville a little bit. So it's a really cool event that we think has an opportunity to be a prominent summer, be a prominent piece of the summer calendar for a long time. Those hotels in Nashville are no joke. Every time I go down, that's a bunch of Bachelorette parties. Even for NFL players, man. You need those sponsors.

Yeah, it's a very interesting place. It's a fun place. The guys enjoy coming. It's pretty easy for everybody to get to. Vanderbilt is letting us use their facilities, which gives us tons of space for meeting rooms and tons of space with their practice facilities and whatnot. So great venue, great city.

I think the guys are really looking forward to it. I want to ask, because I've heard you talk about your experience in Seattle, and that maybe it wasn't the right style for you. And with Russell, I think that's the biggest question mark, is how much was the philosophy in Seattle holding him back and what will change under Nathaniel Hackett? In your opinion, having been on the inside in Seattle and seen the way they run things,

and obviously the meetings were great. Pete Carroll was one of the best defensive minds and team builders. in modern football history, but there were certainly philosophical limitations. What did you see when you were inside of it, Craig? Yeah, I think that was pretty much it. And I think at the end of the day, kind of just ran its course. I think early in Russell's career, you know, he was a young quarterback, as any young quarterback would ask for.

He had an all-time defense. It was run the ball with Marchand and play great defense, the Legion of Boom. And then Russell, you know, everyone just assumed Russell, was along for the ride. And then over the, you know, over that transition away from that elite defense as things became a little more offensive centric, not only there, but around the league, you know, we saw that, you know, Russell's obviously, you know, super talented and dynamic in his own right. He's not just the guy that's hitching his wagon to the all-time defense and

riding his way to Super Bowl win. So I think over time, Russell, you know, obviously proved that, you know, he's of that upper echelon, you know, quarterbacks and can carry a team on their back and be a pass-first system, which is, you know, kind of where the league is going. When you look around the league at the teams that are competing, you know, they're letting their quarterbacks drive the ship. You know, you talked about the AFC, look at the bills with Josh Allen.

They throw football almost every down. Patrick Mahomes, you know, the guys that are that are real contenders and guys that are doing, they're realizing this is an offensive driven league. The philosophies of punt the ball and run the ball and first and second down and don't be afraid to punt and play good defense. You know, those

days are numbered. You got to be able to score points in this league. got to be able to move the ball in the air. And that's what Russ wanted to do. And that was just kind of a philosophical difference that he had with Pete in in Seattle. And I don't think there was any changing that. And I think both sides kind of said, you know, maybe it's in our best interest that we go a different direction. I think Seattle's going to go as much as they can go back to that philosophy.

You know, you're going to start, you know, maybe a young quarterback and Drew Locke and have to rely on a good run game and a good defense, which is what they want to be. So we'll see how that plays out. But I think Russ going with Nathaniel Hackett, who's coming from Green Bay, has a great offensive background, great time with Aaron Rogers. I think the two of them are going to do really well together. And it's about how does the rest of that group around him continue to develop.

Did you find Seattle to be too rigid? Yeah, I mean, it wasn't my style either. You know, it was a very defensive driven, which I like, you know, the one thing I will say about Seattle that I love is the guys in the team were fantastic. We talked a lot about Russ. Bobby Wagner. They had some really, you know, Q Diggs.

They have some really good dudes on that team. D.K., Tyler, I mean, we were talented. We had a good mix of young and old. It was a really good locker room, some really good guys. It's just philosophically, they were very committed to what they wanted to be. They had a staff that was very rigid in what they wanted to do. They had done it for a long time. In their defense, they had done it at a high level.

on a lot of games, as many games as anybody, over the last 10 years. And, you know, so they did things a certain way. It wasn't necessarily the way I had been accustomed to doing it in my career. It wasn't really the way I played, the way my style or whatnot. But, you know, every team has the right to run their organization how they see fit. And time always is the tail of who ends up being right. So this was your first year, this past year, in production meetings. because when you were in,

you were calling games as a player for Fox, but you were not allowed in the facility on Thursday, Friday, that sort of thing, because teams are worried about competitive stuff. So you're on the other side now, your introduction meetings. Who was your production meeting MVP? Who was the coach that blew you away?

Because those things, I mean, I've never been in one, but I hear they're just unbelievable when the coach really wants to spill the beans on football knowledge, that it's almost like, you know, football, you know, advanced football with some of the smartest people. What did you learn in your first year there?

And who was the best? Yeah, it was really cool. You know, we didn't do them in person. They were all via Zoom during the week. But nonetheless, you know, having the opportunity to talk with Bill Belichick and Sean McBay and, you know, and Matt in the floor up in Green Bay. I mean, there was some really cool minds that that really opened up and would really talk honestly and candidly and share their visions. I mean, to have an opportunity to talk with Bill Belichick and talk, you know, philosophy and how to build a team and culture and. and strategy and just his thoughts and how he's seen the league change from when he first got,

you know, first came in the league, you know, 30 years ago to where it is now and how his ability to stay ahead of the trends. It's just having those conversations with with other head coaches. You know, I'd only played for a couple head coaches. I played for Lovie in Chicago, Ron here, and P out in Seattle. So just to expand my, you know, just my exposure to other philosophies, other ways of doing things, listen to how guys communicate, listen to how guys put a package together,

how they put a plan together, how they address teams, how they, you know, a lot of it was, hey, coach, you guys had a bad week last week. What's the message? And then just listen to them tell us,

you know, what was the message all week? How do they plan on bouncing back after maybe a tough week before or vice versa? So there was so much information that, that I took from that that I really enjoyed. And, you know,

I'm looking forward to have an opportunity to speak with hopefully even more guys you know, we didn't have come close to having the whole league last year. So there's a lot of guys that I'm looking forward to speaking with that I haven't had a chance yet. Belichick said he tried to trade for you at one point, right? Yeah, yeah, back in 2000. So this would have been the 2010 season, you know, that season going into the 2010. So that draft, like following the nine season.

We brought in Mike Martts into Chicago. And he didn't really make use of the tight end. it was not something he was overly committed to do. And I got called into Jerry Angelo's office on the eve of that draft and said that they had a deal in place with New England that if a certain player they were targeting, it turned out it was Grong. I was about to say this is an incredible sliding doors moment. Yeah.

So obviously, Gromk fell out of the first round. And at the time the Patriots had multiple second round picks. And one of them was on the table to trade for me if Gromk went in the first. He ended up obviously not going the first. sliding to the second. They took them called the trade-off. I played that last season in 2010 for Chicago and then following

that season, the next off-season, I got traded to Carolina. So it all worked out in the end, but it's an interesting story. Just behind the scenes in the NFL, you just never know what exactly is going on or how close you are to having an entirely different path.

As someone, I think you think about the game in a really smart way, do you wish when you talk to these coaches, whether it's Belichick, whether it's McVeigh, whether it's somebody else. Is there a coach where you say, damn, I wish I could have just spent a year with that guy? You know, there's always guys you find interesting. You know, I don't look back and wish anything different on my career. You know, the bulk of my career playing here for Ron, I wouldn't have asked to play for a different guy.

He was so good to play for. He did such a good job managing the team and getting guys prepared, but also giving guys some freedom and some flexibility to be themselves and take their game and model their game, how they saw fit. So I always respected Ron. He's a guy that I still, to this day, keep in touch with and think so highly of. So I wouldn't replace the guys I played for. But yeah, I mean, you think about what it'd be like to be around Sean McDay

and sit into one of his installs and really listen to how he formulates a game plan and how he packages things together to complement one another. And, you know, those guys across the league, Belichag. I mean, just really interesting football minds that to have an opportunity to just sit there and absorb and be a lifelong learner and be introduced to new ways of thought is something that still to this day now on the TV side, I enjoy.

With the Panthers in particular, obviously you only overlap with Matt Ruhl for a little bit, didn't play under him. How do they fix this? What going forward, David Teper seems to want to commit money to it. Matt Ruhl is entering a season where I think most people think he's on a hot seat. Quarterback is kind of in flux as a position there. How do they fix it in Carolina?

It starts with just settling the quarterback's spot. I mean, you know, whether that's Sam or whether that's Matt Corral, whoever that is, they've got to settle it. You know, since they let Cam go, the same offseason that I got let go, you know, it's been one year turnover, one year, you know, potential turnover now again. So they got to get that position. You don't want every offseason the swirl around your organization to be who's your quarterback next year and who's your quarterback for the next five years.

You know, every team is looking for consistency at the coaching staff and at the quarterback. That's where it all starts. And they've got to get that right. I think they did a nice job in free agency. I think they did a nice job in the draft addressing, you know, the offensive line and a lot of the needs where they felt they could get better around the quarterback position and take some of the pressure off of them. So again, time will tell. I think they have a talented roster. I think they have a lot of really young dynamic guys on both sides of the ball that are game changers.

they got to stay healthy. They've got to get good quarterback play. They've got to take pressure off the quarterback by playing well around him. But that goes for, you know, 25 of the teams in the league. You don't have a marquee prime, you know, Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, you know, Patrick Mahomes, caliber guy. Everybody else is kind of in that same boat where they got to play well around their quarterback if they're going to have success. Two more for you. First, you mentioned Grunk.

Is he the best tight end of all time or is it somebody else? I mean, I think he's in the conversation, of course, what he's been able to accomplish, you know, is pretty unprecedented. I think, you know, you go back and you look at what Gonzalez did. Yeah. You know, never really playing in that kind of an offense, never really playing on a, you know, high flying,

passing attack, star quarterback. And the best quarterback he probably played with was Matt Ryan, who was an MVP, you know, not when he played with Tony. He was a little younger. But just, you know, Tony playing for him. two organizations, what he did in Kansas City and then being able late in his career to continue to be so productive in Atlanta.

His numbers are just so off the charts staggering that I think it's hard to quantify that. I think what Bronc did in the run game and what Bronc did, you know, in the past game, the combination of those two. I mean, he's in that mix. You know, there's a handful of guys. You toss him in a bag and you take any one of them, you know, Gonzalez, Grong. I think Kelsey's on his way.

Certainly. what he's doing statistically over the last six, seven years is unprecedented. So, I mean, it's a position that there's a lot of guys in that mix, you know, Witt and Gates. You can go Shannon Sharp. I'm going to throw Greg Olson in there, 8,600 yards all time. Yeah, I mean, you start looking at guys in the production and, you know, then you got to kind of dissect a little bit. All right, well, what kind of offenses were they in? What kind of system?

What were they asked to do? There's a lot of factors that go into playing the position, playing tight end for one team and playing tied in for another team could be vastly different. Last question for you. You started at University of Miami. On a scout team against, what, eight first round picks, something like that? What's the craziest thing you saw in Green Tree Practice Field as far as just the competitiveness, the talent, the craziness that went on there? Yeah, that was just, that was a different world.

I always say that was the best thing that ever happened to me was going down there and being exposed to just truly highly competitive athletes. I mean, these were guys that every single day, every practice was life and death. Every workout was life and death. And they were coming out there to earn a spot. They were coming out there to take your spot. It was highly, highly competitive individuals that were at the highest level athletically, highest level competitively. So going into that, but yeah, my freshman year, I'm breaking the huddle as the scout team tight end.

And there's Sean Taylor and John Wilma and Vince Wilfork and DJ Williams and Antirel role. Kelly Jennings. I know I'm missing some guys. I mean, just off the top of my head, those were all first round picks. Roger McIntosh was a second round pick. God, I mean, it was Mo Sykes, and it was a crazy, talented defense. To compete against them as an 18-year-old freshman day in and day out was incredible. Mo Sykes' pick six against the Gators might be my most viewed YouTube video of all time.

I don't think there's ever going to be number two. Greg Olson, Tidea, and you presented by Sharman. Thank you so much for joining the show. Appreciate it, man. Thanks for having me. All right, now, joining us, Nora Prince, I, and Nora. Hello. Hi, Kevin. Ben Solak, we have not talked for content in many weeks back.

Yeah, it's good to be back. It feels like post-Sunday-night football, little trifecta here. It's very sweet. You just talked for leisure? Yeah, but usually... You can talk for leisure or you can talk for content. Yeah. Usually we don't have Louise get on a...

Should we be recording our phone calls, like our private phone calls for content, Nora? You guys aren't already doing that? You guys haven't been listening to the Nora Preciati voicemail podcast presented by the ringer? I didn't know. We're getting it cleared with legal. I'm about to release hours of Ben Stillach tapes. It's fine. So we have, we're going to assume midweek nugs.

A couple of things happening in the NFL world. It's OTA season. Are you guys excited or is it too quick? Because I'm actually kind of, to be honest, I'm kind of amped about this season. Why? Is that weird? I mean, well, first of all,

I like football. You should try it. But I think that there's so much intrigue. And maybe it's just like, I'm entertaining so many hypotheticals. Like when we had Greg Olson on earlier, it's like, what does the AFC West even look like?

You know, like there's just so many different moving pieces that I don't know the answer to. Like I'm taking the Socratic method here, right? Like I'm just putting hand up and saying, I don't know what the season looks like. So I think it's more intrigued. I guess I'm thinking about it maybe earlier.

I tend to start getting in football mode, like maybe around the 4th of July normally because I thought three weeks for training camp and I start thinking about bigger picture stories and stuff like that. And I feel like I'm getting there earlier this year. Am I the only person to answer football? I'm in hockey mode, but I love that you're grinding, Kevin.

No, Ben, is it possible? Is it possible, Ben, that because you throw yourself into the draft so much that you feel like you have to unwind a little bit. Whereas I do significantly less draft work for you. I do not contribute it all to the draft guide. I do I contribute it all to the draft podcast. Like,

I feel like I'm, I'm peaking right now. That's absolutely it. Because I'm very used to May being a work month because it's right after the draft having come from covering the draft. And this is the first season where, like, I have a full NFL off season where I got to be training camps and stuff, which is July.

And so the first week or so into May, I was kind of like, oh, this is cool. Like, I just hanging out. This is great. And then like, by the second week, I was like, shoot, I need to be recommended. creating. I need to be resting. I was like, I got to get this done now because I don't have time in July and August when I usually do. So yeah, the schedule is definitely different for me than it is for you a little bit. Interesting. Yeah, no, I think I have the, I have the rhythms down. Well, Nora is just in hockey mode right now. Do you want to give a Rangers take?

They're awesome and they're going to rule the NHL for years to come. Go Rangers. Wow. Nor is trying to sell me on being a Rangers fan. We had a robust 10 minute discussion before we started to record. on this. My take on it. Okay, go ahead. Give your take. No, I actually want to hear yours before I give mine. Listeners of this podcast know that I've been trying

to sell you on being a ranger's fan for a long time. And it's not that I'm necessary. I'm... I'm... Okay, I was about to tell a lie. I'm not going to stop. I'm going to keep it going

because there's no quit in New York. But Kevin's just been like treading water on this decision and pretending that he's like trying to make up his mind. No. We know what the answer is. We're going to buy a house, and I don't want to be geographically disadvantaged.

I don't know where we're going to buy a house. It could be in any place outside the five boroughs. I don't want to be like, you know, right just a train rides away from MSG and then pick the Islanders and vice versa. I don't want to be in great position to get to Islanders games the rest of my life, and then be like, ah, it's actually Ranger Town. Or, I mean, God forbid enough in New Jersey, I have another decision to make. So you are not willing to be geographically disadvantaged, but you are willing to pass up a young, vibrant.

Highest housing market in the history of the world. Yes. No, you're just willing to be athletically disadvantaged. I got it. I get it. I get it. You don't, you don't care about athletic excellence. Nor, I'm an Orlando magic fan. What do you think appeals to me? All right. So we're going to go through a bunch of the things that have happened in the past week. We'll start with the newest news and the most significant news. And that is that the stewards have, after one of the longest GM searches ever have settled on a new structure. Omar Khan,

who has been the cop guy for a long time. Long seen as the era parent will be the new general manager. Andy, help me out here, Ben. Weidel. Widal. Weidel. I was going to ask the exact same question of Ben. Listen, and I said it with my chest there, but there's a good chance I've always thought it was Widal and I've actually

been wrong, but I'm pretty sure I got this one. I think it's Widal. Ben has seen his name all the times. That's why we turn to him because he was the Eagles vice president of player personnel. He is going to be the first assistant GM in the history of the Pittsburgh Steelers organization. So I guess another evaluation,

I guess, since Omar Khan, not come from a strict evaluation background. I have a lot of thoughts on this. But Ben, what are the Steelers getting out of this? What do they need? If you were running the Steelers, you'd feel how today? I think this is an appropriate decision

for the Steelers in that the common threat of the franchise for so long has been continuity, right? I can remember two total Steelers coaches, Bill Cower and Mike Tomlin. You know what I mean? Like, this is a team that simply does not change often. And when they change, they try to make sure that that change is something that is going to be steady and going to be long term. So you have Omar Khan who came up in the building.

And then you have Andy Weidel, who is Mount Lebanon grad, came up through the Pittsburgh football programs, like through high school and in his young life and then ended up in Philadelphia kind of through the Joe Douglas. connection. Now he's back in Pittsburgh. It's very clearly like a keep things in house, keep things in the home sort of a thing. Widal is kind of the next trusted in that group of Eagles executives, right? When Joe Douglas left, Widal was kind of pushed up a little bit in the building and a couple other Eagles execs have left. But a lot of those guys have been going to like Cleveland. They'd be going. Yep. Andrew Barry. Yeah, right. But a lot of it's been on the analytics side of the house.

Wydell's a trying to true football guy. He was one of the Douglas. hires that was brought in to kind of give that scouting experience. And so I think, right, you have that balance between Kahn and between Widal in terms of the football and the non-football backgrounds. Widal was in Philadelphia, the vice president of player personnel, which as far as I can read it, is what the assistant GM is in Pittsburgh. You know what I mean? It seems like these roles are really similar in the titles just different. So for Widal, it's a homecoming and maybe a bit of a title bump because assistant GM sounds nicer, but in general it seems to be largely the same role. So I think it'll be good there. And I think it,

make sense for the Steelers the way they like to run business. Agree. Nor? Just any time you can, an organization can look at its list of finalists for a GM position and then go, okay, we're choosing the one that we want for GM and then getting other members of that list in the building and in high profile roles.

Like, the Steelers just continue to be such a strong, consistent organization. And, you know, the last couple of years in this year, we're running through a change, which is the uncertainty. at the quarterback position.

But the thing that, and, you know, I thought they were going to be worse than they ended up being last year. Not that they were great last year, but I really thought that they would, the bottom would fall out in a way that it just didn't. And the lesson learned from that is that the organization is just so solid that you forget how many little bumps that offers. And I think this is one of them that they can just end up with not just their top

pick for GM, but multiple people who are on that finalist list. Yeah, they're comfortable with the structure. And I think there's a home run for a couple of reasons. Number one is Khan has been the heir apparent for a long time, or from that earlier. It reminds me a little bit of Eric DeCosta and Baltimore. Reason being, and they did different things, DeCosta was not a cap guy.

But it's just for the past, I don't know, five years, anytime anybody talked about Kevin Colbert, who was one of the best GMs of football, they'd say, you know, the next guy up, knows the organization, everything has run well, good ownership, it's Omar Khan. And when you hear that an organization

that does things the right way trusts an empowered number two, you get the sense that this is the next guy and he should be running things. So I don't know what to read into the long search here and not the amount of people they brought in. Maybe they just wanted to make damn sure

Omar Khan was a guy. But this seemed like it was destined from the beginning, very similar to Eric Takasta a couple years in Baltimore. A couple years ago in Baltimore. It is, when it's an organization like Pittsburgh, like Baltimore,

promoting from within is very important to them. There's just a way they go about things, kind of intimate knowledge of the organization. So I think this is great. But then the cap guy part of it, and this is important. I get to a story in January, and I got my hands on a study from one of the,

kind of the search firms, that they broke the numbers down on what kind of GM, what kind of coach is successful. And the answer is that just by a small margin, cap guys and contract guys are actually more successful than former scouts. But then beyond that, almost always,

former scouts are the guys who get the top jobs. Almost always. There are very few cap guys who are actually running teams. Mickey Loomis, Mike Tannenbaum, how we did some cap stuff. But normally, what tends to happen statistically

is a team who needs a GM finds a playoff team from the previous year, finds their number one scout, not a GM, and says, give me that guy. And I feel like there's diminishing returns on that. The GM churn is probably higher than it's ever been

kind of similar to the coach churn. And you end up just with, you know, the eighth or ninth guy, best scout over a five-year cycle, let's call it. And I kind of feel like cap guys and maybe, let's say,

non-scout, non-traditional hires are the way forward. And I think you're going to see more cap guys get these big jobs. And I think Omar Khan, who's been on, and obviously, this is actually part of the Andrew Barry story who I did last summer,

where he was talking about how when he was in an organization like Philadelphia, they gave him so many different things to do because they trusted him because he started to rise up the ranks. And when I think about someone like Omar, it's not, he's been around for so long in that organization.

It's not just the cap. They didn't just give him a roster and say balance this every year. They empowered him to do a bunch of different stuff. And that's why I think that he's probably uniquely positioned because he sees all sides for this. I'm glad you brought up the Andrew Barry story because I don't know that we've ever talked about this, but I remember when you wrote that and reading it, wondering if there is, because I think in general, that's a pretty strong point. It seems like the guys who have a cat background maybe do a touch bit better in the long run. My question about that is if there's

an application for the scouts where the lesson is not actually that it's better to be a cap guy, but that the cap guys are the ones who get forced into doing all those different things and learn all those different skill sets, whereas everybody needs scouts. So you can be a scout from day one for years and years and years and then all of a sudden you get a GM job and it's a lot more holistic and you need to be looking at a bunch of different things. And you're really a specialist in a job that's for a generalist. So I wonder if there's a way if we'll ever start seeing some of the scouts who are ambitious, who want these jobs, who've been doing well in organizations for a long time, really try to go out of their ways to learn a little bit more

about the cap. Learn a little bit more about analytics. Like, just get your hands in all the different roles because I think there's an advantage in being kind of like that outsider that cab guys were for so long that you end up wearing a bunch of different hats that I think does end up happening, helping when you get the big job. And Andrew Barry did everything. Except he laughed about this.

He was not an analytics person. And because he was so young and in the GM job, everybody was like, an analyst guy. And he was laughing. He's like, I was never in analytics. And I just get branded analytics

I'm a young guy. Big brain. Big brain, right. And because he was in Cleveland, honestly, because he was in Cleveland. But I also say that the cap thing, they tend to come from non-traditional backgrounds

and had a different educational route and all that stuff, whereas scouts tend to play in college, maybe you played a couple years in pro, maybe you played a long time in pro, and you're kind of, this is kind of reductive, but like,

it's just this, it's a lot of the same guy over and over and over again in scouting. Right. Whereas if you're hiring from a different department, you're getting different backgrounds and you're getting different perspectives on things. Scouting,

there are a lot of brilliant scouts. I would hire to run my, my organization, you know, all the time. But it's a bit, homogenized and it's a bit, you know, there's still a lot of old school tendencies from there's some old school sentences in cap. I'm not saying that there's 32 cap guys who just

see the game a different way. I'm just saying that there's a great big pool of people out there you could hire from and not just saying let's just do the scout is probably having paid anything else that's Ben? I would just ask, right, because getting wheels turning on this, is that why everybody's hiring people from Philadelphia? Because it ain't because Philly's drafting better than anybody else. You know what I mean? Like over the last couple of years, the Eagles have lost us major executives. They've lost Andy Weiddle now to the Steelers. Catherine Rache is now in Cleveland with Andrew Berry.

Ian Cunningham is in Chicago with the Bears. Brandon Brown is now with the Giants. Both Cunningham and Brown joined Widel and becoming assistant GM. Those are their titles now in their new roles. A lot of those guys had football backgrounds. Like Cunningham was a, a offensive lineman, I'm pretty sure, in the league in the 2000s. Then he went up in scouting. I know Brown played in college.

And then they go to Philly, for a few years and they're like director of player personnel, whatever. They're like on the scouting side. They do some pro. They do some college and then they get hired away. And I wonder if it's that point that Nora made, which is like, they're not necessarily analytic skies, but they're legible in it. Because they were in Philadelphia, we know that they speak the language.

That's way Philly runs their building. By the way, you want to just talk about Andrew Barry's big brain and all that stuff. And certainly owners, Jimmy has some agreed, gave a bunch of money to run an organization to a young age. He was also one of the best defensive backs in history of the Ivy League. So like, and that's saying something. I thought to his coach last summer. I was going to say the other reason people think that he does,

does analytics is because he went to Harvard. He went to Harvard. And because he had a bunch of job offers on Wall Street. He did not take. Wall Street is famous to analytics. Tom Telesco, he'd have been a Rangers fan probably right now, knowing what I know about Wall Street. He'd be right there with you.

Tom Telesco is the one that said, hey, Wall Street's always going to be waiting for you. If you want to get into football, get in now. So if there's a little sodding, Doris moment. Tommy T. Could be an AFC championship game this year. Tough one. Tough one for Tommy Tigg if he gets blocked by the guy he got into football.

All right. So Ian Rappaport and other folks reported that the NFL basically doesn't like the Pro Bowl anymore. In fact, Roger Goodell said it yesterday. The Pro Bowl isn't working. And the other alternatives are being discussed. What's funny about this is the Pro Bowl, even in its awful state. I don't watch the Pro Bowl. I just don't.

It's like... Yeah, hand up. I've watched the Pro Bowl in years. I'm usually traveling to the Super Bowl. I don't have the This idea of the proble isn't working What's the proble is supposed to do? I didn't even know it had a job

I didn't even know there was a goal there I thought it was just how I just It's unwatchable but it still gets like It's like 8 million viewers or something It gets like you know It's like 6.7 or something It's like a lot So

They want to do something Are just like TVs that are on In the lobby of a big building I always wonder that Well and that's this The lobby TVs are not counted in Nielsen they're not? I mean,

all right, this is a different bot. We need Brian Curtis for this. They don't, they don't, they don't just monitor everything. It's not like, your cable box is not report what you're watching to Spectre. It's a,

okay, again, I think we're going to need more time for this, so I'm going to choose to move on. All right. All right. So they want to celebrate the players. There's a lot I guess you could do. Let's do it right now.

Let's fix the Pro Bowl. Ben, So like, we'll start with you. Uh, Y'all ever play mafia growing up? Mafia? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So the concept in mafia, right? The concept in a saboteur game is that everybody is aspiring to one goal. However, there's somebody designated randomly who's actually trying to sabotage everybody, right? They're trying to, like, in the game of mafia, kill all the villagers, whatever. So keep the Pro Bowl, but like two of the 11 people on any given team are actually trying to sabotage and cause problems. And then it's the goal at the end of every quarter to figure out who those players were. I greatly enjoy the idea of like two all-star receivers, right? Like Odo Beck and Jr.

On one side is the fondig's on the other and one of them drops the pass and they just get up in each other's faces about whether or not he's actually the Sabotor. That to me, that's interesting. So I think Mafia Pro Bowl is our solution. Okay. My idea is probably the cousin of that idea. Okay. Tweeted this yesterday. It's that you take the teams.

The teams are all what's, we can do AFC and AFC. NFC and AFC. And we're going to throw in a couple of in shape legends. Throw in T.O. If you'd like, someone's Justin Michael. Michael Vic. Love an in shape legend. But before each quarter, they go to a little hat and every player draws a new position.

So it could be. It could be. And it's not offense and defense. It could be anything, right? So it could be that Jordan Davis makes a pro bowl next year draws from a hat and all of a sudden he's playing quarterback. He's playing wide receiver. Got to play for the entire quarter.

And yeah, I mean, you could have Justin Herbert playing cornerback. He could have whatever, whatever comes out of the hat. You're at the mercy of the hat or it could be that everybody else is out of position and Justin Herbert draws quarterback. And he gets to play and just torch guys for a quarterback. Who's not watching that? Nor, what's your idea? So I don't think it can be a football game.

I've thought about it a lot, and I think we have an intractable problem. We should just play literal mafia? Yeah, I think so. I'm there. It's too violent to allow an extra game to count, to have real stakes. But without real stakes, it's just not, there's just no way to make it interesting.

I think instead they should do American Ninja Warrior. I will be honest. I am mostly basing this on the fact that I was recently at a bar near Madison Square Garden, not before a Rangers game, before a Heim concert. Very cool area to hang out. Very cool area to hang out. But the wonderful ladies known as Heim were performing, and I was in the area before the show. And I was chatting with some friends about the Rangers.

And the bartender overheard one of us say something, because I was chatting with some friends about the Rangers. overheard one of us say something because I was sort of talking about, like, part of the reason I love the Rangers is I love having a team in New York where I live. And, you know, if I ever have a family there, I want them to, I want to have a team that I root for, like, with my kids or whatever. Very similar to me. I have to pick a baseball and hockey team. Yes. Right. Based on where I buy a house and not buy your whims. Somebody, my whims are very important, Kevin. somebody said something along the lines of like I feel like kids always pick up sports fandom from parents like if your parents are sports fans that always catches on on with the kids and the bartender goes mm not so much and starts telling us that he's like this huge sports fan and he tried so hard with his kids and they just like could not possibly be less interested except for the fact that they are obsessed with American Ninja Warrior and made this like incredibly clear case for how much. the kids are into American Ninja Warrior

and have specific people that they root for and it's a big deal. So I think this is how we get the youth into football is by recreating the Pro Bowl as American Ninja Warrior style. And then keep it AFC, NFC, and make the stakes

like, you know, the equivalent of winning the coin toss in the Super Bowl or something. Hmm. I like the idea of it being, just sort of a skills weekend. What if they played every sport but football?

Football is too violent for an All-Star game. But what if they- What about like the presidential fitness test? Sure. This is the presidential fitness. Like the little like audio that played before we had to do the sprints? Yeah.

Yes. Is this a Northeastern thing? I didn't do the presidential fitness test. How dare you? You don't know how your series was? Should I not? Did you say it's 60 seconds? How did you do it?

you measure social hierarchy among your male friends in fourth grade, if not for the pushup test? I don't, I don't know. I was probably just winning at real sports. Yeah, that's, I wasn't running in real sports. That's fair. Me neither been. Probably just playing football. What else? I went hockey as a big hockey guy growing up. Part of the reason that I, you know, I'm not taking a hockey team. I'm just not taking up. I played hockey for 10 years. I played hockey for 10 years. It was great. And I was just thinking the whole time about where I was going to buy a house and what team I was going to root for.

All right. Next one, I can't, I can't honestly, we have to talk about this because it's just, it's a news item, but I cannot believe we're still, we're still doing this. The 49ers possibly move closer to a much needed Jimmy Garapolo resolution. This is from Mike Florio this morning. Nothing is changed from Kyle Shanahan, not Mike Flore. This is, this quote. nothing's changed since the solar surgery.

We knew where we were at before that, and then he got the surgery, so everything went on hold. I expect him at some time, most likely to be traded. But who knows? It's not a guarantee, and it's been exactly on hold when that happened,

and when he's healthy, we'll see what happens. Kyle Shanahan, famous for a lot of who knows quotes. He said famously, we might die at some point before a different type of resolution. So he liked to leave things open-ended.

So what are we doing here, guys? Kyle, buddy. Bring it him. You are not good at this, man. You are yours. What part, quotes, trades? Anything that is not designing the running game, my brother. Listen, do what you do well, my man.

Just design a good offense, maximize some players, pick up some yak, make some quarterbacks work that maybe didn't work for other coordinators. Do what you're good at. subterfuge, playing the game, as it were, communication skills. Might be time to just take the hell on this fun for Kyle. This is just, this is, this is very rough look. Every year, it's something with them in the offseason. And now this year, this Jimmy trade is going to go on indefinitely.

And it's going to be, every time Kyle has to give a quote, just going to be like weird nihilism mixed with like just completely empty coach aphorisms. It's all horrible. It's very sad. I just want him to not have to answer questions anymore. I love that Not a Ringer NFL show goes by where we don't demote at least one person

to run game coordinator. It's all the same, I mean, it's all located in the same division. It's all the same type of guy. There's a lot, listen, there are a lot of good run game coordinators in this league. Nora, what happens here? well i think hopefully that kyle shanahan just like speaks publicly a little bit less i wonder

it's worth noting that i like this literally every juncture like nothing that they have done with jimmy makes sense to me i wonder if he now is just like their quarterback next year that's the vibe i'm going to be honest i think that's the vibe that's why this is a topic is because at some point jim mcgrapolo's there and at some point if jim mcgrapal is healthy he might be a better option to win a game than Trey Lance. Benjamin Solax getting angry over there. This boat has 2022 Jimmy Garoppola of 49ers starting

quarterback lives. We got, Ben's getting angry. Guys, they traded two first round picks here, the third overall picked to draft Trey Lance. Because of what they know to be true about Jimmy. Kyle Shanahan didn't do that. Well, he did. I guess he did. He did. He did.

You think John Lynch. You think John Lynch. I would love to be able to a tribute. Thanks to John Lynch. That would be a very healthy run team if I could attribute anything to John Lynch. Nora, you think Johnny Lynch walked in in Santa Clara and was like, Kyle, I've got this idea.

You think that's what happened? Do I think that if Kyle wanted to wash his hands of that decision and just roll with Jimmy, he couldn't find a way to do that? I mean, I'm sure he could, but I don't, I know, Kyle Shanahan is a quarterback guy.

He made the decision, if anything, if anything, thing, and we've seen this before with Kyle Shanahan. He tends to say, I want this guy, and then they tend to overpay because he wants this guy. Maybe there's some of that. But no, there's no doubt in my mind, or probably Ben Solax's mine, that the idea to overpay for, not overpay, but to commit a ton of resources to getting Tray Lance came from Calhian. Yes, I agree. And I think that there has to be a water's edge. somewhere to Shanahan Doghousery.

And to me, it's top five selected quarterback for whom we traded multiple first remnants, right? At some point, that guy's just got to see the field. And I wrote about this last year, in the sense of if the Niners are going to be like a healthy team, which a healthy team and a successful team are not always exactly the same. That's critical to know. But if they're going to be a healthy team,

somebody in the building, Talmudge, has to be able to tell, Shanahan, like, hey, it's time to take Branda out of the dockhouse. I'm going to take Tracer out of the dockhouse. You need to put young players on the field, let them make mistakes, and go. I feel like if that's going to happen... What evidence do we have that this happens on a consistent basis? Say it again?

What evidence do we have that this is what happens on a consistent basis? That what happens? That Shanahan dog houses people? Yeah. That Lynch un-dog houses them. That's what I'm saying is Lynch isn't doing that. Right. What I'm saying is, in order for them to be a healthy team, Lynch must start doing that.

And I think if there's ever going to be a situation, that is dire enough that forces somebody in the building, Lynch or or Domingo Ryan's or who's the owner? York or somebody? I don't fucking know. Somebody to tell Kyle Shanahan hey, it's time to let a rookie get out there and make

mistakes. It'll be for the take of Traylands. Good cop. They need a good cop. The logical basis of everything that you are saying, I agree with. I agree that that is how it should be. I agree that several months ago that would have been the smart assumption. It may still be the smart assumption.

at some point, and maybe that some point is in September when Jimmy Garabolo is starting games for the 49ers, at some point we have to look at the situation and be like, it's not happening. No, I refuse to entertain the reality. It is too scary. So, okay, let me live in this world with you for a second. The alternative, and I think this is reasonable, is that the situation with Jimmy literally is what it was a few months ago, because I believe on his recovery timeline he was going to start throwing sometime in June. So it's entirely possible that everybody has to wait until we get to that point before the evaluations are complete enough to complete a trade.

And maybe they won't get everything that they wanted for him, but they'll find something. Move them on. It's Traylands time, baby, let's go. And we're cool. That's perfectly reasonable. In my heart of hearts, it's just starting to not look like that. No.

But it's perfectly reasonable. There's no market for Jimmy Garoppolo. There's no market for Jimmy Garapolo. and I don't know what it looks like if Trey Lance starts three games and doesn't look good then. It looks like Jimmy Garoppolo starting for the San Francisco. We have to remember here. We're talking about if Traylinson doesn't look good.

For a San Francisco 49ers offense led by Kyle Shannon, which at times has made both Nick Mullins and CJ Bethard look viable. I agree. There is no offense in the league that is better at making bad quarterback look good, which I don't even think Tray Lans is a bad quarterback, but there's no offense in the league better at making bad quarterback look good than Shanahan's offense. Number one.

Number two, it is Sam Bradford and Philadelphia with wins in the wings. It is one quarterback injury somewhere between now and August 31st and Jimmy Gropo is out of the building. Yes. We got Baker Mayfield on watch, though. It is one quarterback injury. And then it is Jimmy Garofalo before Baker Mayfield. That I wholeheartedly.

Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, there are going to be different costs, my guess. All right. Anything else else, this, guys? I love Tray Lance.

I like them, too. I'm just saying that I think we all see that there's the potential that something weird happens. One, nothing but the best for him. I like the guy, too. It just doesn't matter if I like the guy. So this is from Greg Bedard. And so here are the current coaches who are dealing with the offense right now in the wink. Joe Judge, former wide receivers coach

in New England, author of the extremely strange what was it, quarterback sneak on third down. Yeah. The goal, yeah, classic.

Got to set up for the punt, baby. Offensive play. Matt Patricia, who you may remember as a defensive coordinator and a fellow head coach of the Detroit Alliance, Nick Cayley, Vinnie Suns Siri,

and Troy Brown. Troy Brown is an offensive name. He has played offense, including for the Patriots. So we're certainly moving in the right direction with that name. Saw a story today in the Boston Herald that Ross Douglas, young guy. It's also going to be working there. And it's an interesting name to watch.

So Greg Bedard has a quote. He works at the Boston Sports Journal. Quote, I've heard from people in the last couple of days, but what's going on with the offensive coaching staff. And initial reports, I'm getting back, are not good at all. And that includes what they're hearing from the players internally. It's not going in a good direction. Now, Joe Judge is what it is.

He's been an offensive coach, position coach for the Patriots. If you want to say Belichick plus Joe Judge, plus a couple of position coaches, are going to run things, I'm okay with that. The Matt Patricia thing is where I start getting a little spooked and wonder what's going on here. Nora, help me understand what's happening. Well, nothing good, I don't think. Look, at the most recent OTA there, and take this with a grain of salt, because it's an early OTA. But Bill was really, really involved with the offense,

which is probably good news and bad news. The good news being that Bill Belichick is heavily involved in coaching the team and the bad news being that he has about 12 jobs at this point. But he was heavily involved after Josh left the first time as well. Right. And I think they've had so much of a brain drain there over the last few years that it has to catch up at some point. They're sort of trying to overcompensate for that

by getting guys like Joe Judge and Matt Patricia Back in Building who've had head coaching jobs. But I think the central issue with those guys, I think there's two central issues. One, Joe Judge and Matt Patricia as position coaches may have perfectly fine things to offer in terms of their football ability. I would say I've seen little to no evidence that either one of those people is a good communicator. And ultimately the biggest thing that we're talking about here is that someone is going to have to contribute positively to the development of Mac Jones. That probably involves a lot of teaching and a lot of communication.

Neither one of those people has a good history of doing that. One of Joe Judge's issues tends to be, and Tom Curran of NBC SportsBoston, has done a really, really good job of pointing out. He speaks incredibly fast, and he communicates about 20 different concepts at a time. It is too much. It doesn't have a good track record of just like getting into the minds of young players and helping them learn. it's actually in really, really stark contrast with what Bill's philosophy tends to be,

which is basically like, here are the three things that you need to know to go win this game. It is pretty much the polar opposite of that. Now, both of those people are very good at carrying out what Bill wants to do, and that seems to be the number one priority there of who they're hiring. But they've lost so many people who know that system. I thought Nick Cayley might end up looking like the play caller just because he's been around and because he knows it. if it's not Belichick himself, it probably at this point looks like it's Joe Judge more than anybody else

because he's been working with the quarterbacks the most. But you're in a situation where a guy who doesn't have a good history of working with offenses in general, but then specifically with coaching young players and helping them develop, is the most hands-on position coach with the guy you're hoping turns into a franchise quarterback. I'm also not sure that Joe Joe, and Matt Pritch are being put in good positions to get along with each other as two former head

coaches who may want high-profile jobs again and who are kind of in this hazy. We're not naming anybody in an offensive coordinator. We're not deciding who's going to publicly be the play caller. We're sort of working in this messy non-hierarchy. I don't know. I don't know that that works out too well. So I don't have a ton that's super positive to say about it. Yeah, I agree. Both Nick Cayley and Joe Judge have something in common, which is they were defensive coaches earlier in their career and flipped. So Joe Judge was a special team's coach for a long time in New England.

He's a linebacker's coach before that at the college level. Special teams coach in New England, then he spends one year's wide receivers coach along with the special team's training. That is the entirety of his offensive resume at the NFL. The Patriots wide receivers were notably not good that year. Nick Cayley.

It's not entirely his fault. Nick Cayley was the secondary coach for Florida and Los Angeles. Atlantic in 2014. I think that was under Carl Polini. I might be wrong. Then he becomes an offensive assistant the next year in New England. Tight ends coach in 2017.

He's now tight ends coach and full backs coach. The difference, Nora, and you hit on this, and this is the point, is that Belichick worked with the offense when Josh left the first time. And he also had Bill O'Brien on staff at that point. Obviously, he ended up taking over the reins. But they had Tom Brady. And Tom Brady is a heck of a coach. Okay?

and he certainly understands the office. Mack Jones is not there. You're two of Mac Jones. And I wonder, kind of what you were saying, I wonder if we're not going to look back on it and say, damn, we probably should have gotten a stronger voice in the room for Mac Jones. Ben Soak, where we at? Vinnie Sincere is a great name, baby.

Love Vinny. Trust that guy. He seems like he'd be solid. His son played for Alabama, right? No, it's his brother. I'm about to say. Vinnie Sincerey definitely doesn't look like his son would be old enough. No, no, no, Sal Sunseries is his dad.

Yeah, and he was a long time brother. No, guys, Sal Sunsiri is Vinny's son Siri's dad. Tino's son Siri is his brother. Yes. Yes. Yes. The Sunsiris are like the hymns of coaching. Copy that.

Right. Vinnie played for Alabama. Vinny's one to play for Alabama. Yeah. The, um, no, I, I like everybody find this. extremely weird and very concerning. The thing that is, I think, if anything, underappreciated this and deserves a highlight is that it's not just like, hey, our offensive coordinator left and now we don't really know who, like, who that's going to be, right? He left. He took Bo Hardigree, who was the Patriots assistant quarterback's coach. Mick Lombardi left. Carmen Brissivow, who was the offensive line coach replacing Dandes-Garnakia, they all also left to join McDaniel

with the Raiders. This after Darnage's Krenacki left a couple years ago and Ivan Fears is expected to retire. Yeah, it was the running backs coach long time running back coach in New England. So it's not just that, oh, McDaniels is gone and we lost a couple guys and we haven't really replaced

them. Everybody's gone. The position of coaching is gone, right? There is a massive amount of turnover on this offensive coaching staff and they haven't really hired anybody intentionally to replace those roles. They've just brought Patricia and Judge back because they know them and oh, look, these are where the spots are,

and that doesn't feel good. And so even the, like, you know, to the degree to which the coordinator teaches the offense and, like, it's communicates with Mac Jones, there's also, like, the guy who talks to him the most, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday is going to be the quarterbacks coach. That guy's gone, right? The offensive line coach, guys talk to those young players,

because remember, they lost three offensive linemen. That guy's gone. Belichick seems determined to be like, all right, well, Brady's going to keep winning championships. I'm just going to see how hard of a mode I can play on and still make the playoffs, which is an interesting way of going about it. But this is ugly from STEM to Stern

in the offensive coach staff. Do you know what position Vinnie Sancery played in Alabama? Sounds like a backer. He was a safety. I think he played, I feel like he played backer early in his college career. I remember him being a special team's demon at one point.

I don't, and then, yeah, so that's your offensive mind as well. It's a former Alabama safety. Benison's not sure. Not real sure what's going on. Smiling face, I cross them. Not real sure what's going on. We'll get out of here with this one.

I think this is more of a Stephen Ruiz topic. We'll have him on the pod Friday. Tyree Kill says that... Should we try to play the role of Stephen? No. No one can do that. Not anyone can do that. So Tyree Kill has now practiced with Tua. He had admittedly low expectations as the headline.

via Mike Florio. We love that. We love that. That's good. It's such a strange same, Tyreek. At first, I thought it was going to be something crazy, the ball going all over the place. By the way, Tyreek Hill is on record

to saying that he thought Mahomes was trash the first time he saw in practice. So not like a classic evaluator, Tyreek Hill. Anyway, continue the quote. Tua has one of the prettiest balls I've ever caught in my life. It's very catchable. I don't want to continue because

the more I talk, the more it sounds weird. Tua is a very accurate quarterback. That's all I'm going to set. Ben Solek, is Tyreek Hill telling the truth? Yes, in the sense that any quarterback that makes it to the NFL level is extremely accurate during training camp, at which time nobody is hitting them or actually rushing the pass or actually stressing them out in any given way, shape, or form.

And that's who Tua was at Bama. When, oh, man, when things were clean at Bamba, who, baby, that's the first overall pick. No pressure. First read, looked amazing. Anytime anything else happened, which happens a lot at the NFL level, accuracy went way down to Alabama.

It was gone way down in Miami. And so, yeah, I used to call this the Jared Stidham theory. Jared Stim was a fourth round pick of the Patriots. Every evaluator that ever spoke by Jared Sinam was like, oh, baby, he could spin it. I'm really really sling that thing around the yard. He could throw it around, accurate quarterback. Watch his film is not good.

This is not good film. Bad film. That's correct. But every evaluator had seen him practice. They had seen him throw against air. And big guy looks good. Throw it 65 yards. Beautiful.

This is Jared Stidham theory in practice. Yes. 2.0 right now is an accurate deep ball thrower. Because there's nothing going on. Once there's something going on is when things get a lot worse. And also, we all did see the video and that ball was not accurate. So I believe Tyreek is generally being like honest, but also I don't think it means anything. Nora.

I think he's lying. And here's why I think he's lying. It's because, okay, so the quote is, at first I thought it was going to be something crazy, the ball going all over the place. Didn't he, like, pretty famously in his first introductory press conference, say in the tone of like a hostage video, Tua is a very accurate QB.

I think, I think Tariq is just sort of doing his own thing. Yeah, but I think we're getting some mixed messages about what is, what his expectations were. I just would like to say that if you pay me $30 million, I will say anybody is accurate. That's what's happening right now. That's how this podcast goes.

We're just all paid by various teams and our players to stand for them independent of one another. Kevin's paid by the Titans last year. That's what led to all that. We just send out to all 32 teams are cash app names and then we just see who's in there

and then they leave a little message and all of a sudden they say, hey, we think we can be pretty good this year, Dash, and Cincinnati Bengals, and that's how you get there. That's how you get there. Or we have a great culture, Dash, the Titans, right? And I'm making $30 million, and that's why I do those things. I don't know about you guys. Yeah. It's early for me. I'm like 20 right now. I'm trying to get up there.

I can't comment for tax purposes. All right, guys. Anything else? Go Rangers. Go sooner. Boomer Sooner. Super Regional's this weekend. Oh, yeah. Softball. ACC baseball as well. Cain's looking good, ready for Omaha. So we're going to have another episode this week.

We have one of the best players in football, joining us tomorrow night. It's someone I've interviewed in the past, and so I wanted to get a little different perspective, and so I'm bringing in the fellas. Ben Solac and Steve and Ruiz are going to come in. We're just going to talk ball with this guy. I don't want to say who it is until he's in the seat.

But it'll be really, really fun, and it'll be a little bonus episode, and then we'll chop it up afterwards and make it a full episode. So we'll see you then. It's been The Ringer NFL show on The Ringer Podcast Network. Thank you, to Stefan Anderson for the question help with additional productions provision by our Juno Rang.