The Ringer NFL Show - Herbert Hype, Ravens-Steelers, and Potential Super Bowl Contenders | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: October 29, 2020

Kevin is joined by former Miami Dolphins and New York Jets executive and ESPN analyst Mike Tannenbaum to discuss Justin Herbert’s excellent start (2:10) and potential trades that could come before the deadline (8:27). Then The Ringer’s Ryan Shazier joins Kevin to preview the AFC North battle between the Baltimore Ravens and Pittsburgh Steelers (27:15). After that, The Ringer’s Nora Princiotti joins Kevin and Ryan to decide how many teams can realistically compete for a Super Bowl (44:15). Host: Kevin Clark  Guests: Mike Tannenbaum, Ryan Shazier, and Nora Princiotti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It is the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast network. I'm Kevin Carr. Great show today. Mike Tannenbaum, former Jets and Dolphins executive now with the SPN joins me to talk about trade deadline, young quarterbacks, a great Brett Barb story and what to expect for some of the teams like the Patriots and the Cowboys currently struggling. And then Ryan Chazir and Nora Prenciati joined me. Ryan and I talk about the big Steelers and Ravens game, plus other topics, Kyler Murray, among them, his pick for MVP. And then Nora, Ryan and I discuss how many.

teams to win the Super Bowl. Very useful exercise. Had a lot of fun. A great episode. Today's episode of the Ringer NFL show and the Ringer Podcast Network is brought to you by State Farm. Getting great car and home insurance from State Farm at a surprisingly great rate. That's like drafting a player that becomes an all pro, the real deal. State Farm agents provide personalized service so you can customize your insurance to fit your needs like a GM putting together their very own roster. You need a team that supports you and State Farm's got a great one. In addition to agents, the award-winning mobile app helps manage coverage, pay bills, file claims, and more. With a great price, even greater service, State Farm goes from strength to strength.

Choose insurance that always brings its A-game. When you want the real deal, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Mike Tannenbaum, ESPN, former Jets and Dolphins executive, and someone I brought on, talk about a lot of things, but I want to take a victory lap with you, Mike, because you were maybe the only person before the draft came on the show. We were talking about quarterbacks to hype up Justin Herper. And now it looks like Herper is starring the making. I think him versus Burrow and eventually him versus Burrow and Tua

will be a debate that will probably happen not only this year but going forward but he definitely looks like there's something there. Were you, even having high expectations of Herbert, Mike, are you surprised at how good he's looked this early? No, not at all. And I appreciate

it's great to be with you, Kevin. Look, and I was part of this for a long time in my career, but I do think when you look at it, objectively, there's a bias about players in the SEC and from the East Coast. And I made this sort of, you know, observation early on in the process, Kevin, which was, if you took Justin Herbert and put him into an East Coast media market or the SEC,

he would be in the conversation with Joe Romero. And here, let me tell you why, if you took the names and the programs off the front of the back of their jerseys, Tua, Borough, and Herbert, and I'm taking nothing away from Vero, I'm taking nothing away from Tua. And you just look at it in a very objective way. Justin Herbert was the biggest, the fastest. There were multiple tests that they took in the pre-graph process. Some you could get access to, some you couldn't, but the word was that Justin Herbert was like off the charts mentally. So arguably the smartest. He was a four-year starter. And then from a competitive standpoint, like let's just follow the process. He goes to the senior bowl. He's the best

there, he's the MVP of the senior bowl. He goes to the combine. He throws and throws well. Now, I was in the end zone for his workout, and it wasn't great early. He threw behind a couple slants, but as the workout went on and there was some sort of continuity with the receivers, he was clearly the best throw at the combine.

And I think sometimes we all have, like, a little bit of the ending in mind, which is, well, he's nonchalant, he's not a leader. And for me, when you look at it objectively, you say yourself, well, The guy was a four-year starter, and he answered every question along the way. Like, what does it make him competitive? And you go back to the Wisconsin game, Kevin, something that is really underrated about

Herbert's ability, he can make you miss and he can run you over. And he also has a cannon for an arm. So when you put all those things together, great competition. And if Boney's mix doesn't make cluclidean plays against the Oregon defense in the opener, they're probably in the final four. So I just felt like this was the best player and it was pretty obvious. With the team that the Chargers have right now, Anthony Allen, I think is a good coach. I think that their team was built an interesting way because there are some good veterans on that squad.

And I think that they can be a pretty good team. But expectations for Herbert this year and then going forward, do you think he's the first guy out of these three first round quarterbacks who competes for an AFC title, Mike? And when might that happen? Yeah, so here's what's going to happen. If I'm Tom Telesco and Coach Lynn, here's what I do. I'm just telling the whole organization right now that the first five picks next year are offense linemen. Non-negotiable, anyone else can just leave the building.

You guys can come in for the sixth and seventh round. You may get a free agent or two, but we already get the five best offensive linemen because when you look at the durability problems that Mike Palsy has had, you know, Forest Lance has been hurt, they're just not good enough at the office line. Look, they try to sign Valaga. You know, Sam Tevi's still a young player. So I'm not saying they're totally barista talent there, Kevin. But I'm just saying, like, send her to me else home.

It doesn't matter. If they get five good linemen, like imagine taking Herbert with that cold offense line. Imagine taking Herbert with a healthy cowboy offensive line. You really may have something there. And we've learned over the years you can plug in play receivers. They obviously have a couple of good weapons. You know, can they resign Hunter Henry a long-term deal? Keenan Allen, Mike Williams needs to stay healthy.

But the point being is, it all starts up front. If you told me that they have an above average offensive line, I'm telling you it's reasonable for Justin Herbert to have a very good career because it's the old saying, Kevin, the talent sets the floor and the character sets the ceiling, and this guy has moved. And again, I'm not saying those other guys don't, but to me, he has absolutely everything you need to be a great, dominant quarterback. What are your expectations for Tua in his first start?

and more generally, was the timing right to make this move? Or would you, if you had a say in a move like that, would you have maybe waited a couple weeks? Yeah, you know, I've been thinking about that quite a bit. I think Miami credit from this standpoint. When you juxtapose Kevin would happen between Cincinnati and, let's say, Miami, I really like what Miami did from this standpoint. I would never have got rid of Andy Dalton, especially for this year.

Let me tell you why. Not only would you have those four preseason games or an early, you want to have full pre-season season weeks of game planning, understanding the nuances of protection. And these guys, let alone the physical aspect of growing into your body, but not knowing, like, how to adjust the protections for the huts. Are you protected? Do you have to get rid of the ball? They make one mistake. That could be catastrophic the way, you know, some of these bigger hits happen. So I think when you look at it, really what you're talking about is to play in lead two or three in an ordinary season, which seems somewhat reasonable. now look, Fitzpatrick's playing well, and that's candidly the good problem to have if you're Miami.

I think what's interesting, you know, Kim, what's interesting to me, I didn't think about this a lot. You think about some of these recent left-standers, right? So, Tebow, Nel, there's not a lot of them that have played, you know, Michael Vick, going back a number of years. It'll be interesting, like, there's Austin Jackson, their first-round tackle, does he flip? I'm kind of curious to see how that plays out. Yeah, I mean, the left-handed thing, it's huge. And there were receivers, you know, a lot of people did that story.

over the past year, receiver saying the ball is just a little bit different coming out of their hands. There's adjustment there. So it'll be fascinating to watch. I want to switch gears here because the trade deadline is coming up. And I'm curious if there's a trade you want to see your trade you identified or a team that you say, hey, these guys should go for it in blank way. If you were kind of circle a trade that in your mind's eye, you're thinking about next week, where do you start?

Yeah, kind of playing the same thing from last year. last year, Mohamed Snu goes from Atlanta to an England for two, but I'm looking at guys like Golden Tate, Kenny Stills, maybe even Randall Cobb going to New England, because here's what's interesting. You're looking at the first two weeks, and New England's offense really looked explosive against Miami and then at Seattle.

The last two weeks they've really struggled. And I think if they can get somebody on the outside that can make a player too, maybe it's AJ Green, there's a bunch of these veteran receivers. I can open up so many other things for New England, but right now they just don't have anybody that can win one-on-one. and cam just doesn't look right. So to me, Kevin, if they can at least get a receiver, maybe even two,

I think that will really help. And they're still in the thick of things. I mean, it's early. You know, I'm surprised like everybody else, how they look. But a receiver going to win a makes a lot of sense to me. Is there a, if you're New England right now, and you look at this roster, and obviously they have the opt-outs and all that stuff we talk about all the time, is there any case to be made in your mind that maybe they'd take a step back

and try to go to kind of the soft rebuild route and get rid of some of the talented players like a you know you think about us to find go more or something like that or do you think that's just not in belichick's DNA to sort of even though obviously we've seen him deal some incredible players in his day uh that he wouldn't want to necessarily take a step back this season yeah i think he's much more wired to say hey how do we get you know josh we're shay better their second round pick or chase what event and how do we get some of these younger guys better and developed that that's to me like that's how he's hardwired you know cattle dungers of the world and you know you can look at the miami he

Miami Heat lost Chris Bosch, Duane and LeBron James. They never had a top 10 pick, and they got back to the finals. And I think when you look at Pat Riley, that's like to me more of what we're talking about with Coach Belichick. So I just don't think he's hardwired that way. Not to take away,

anything away from the teams that may do that. I just don't think, you know, at his age where he is in life, I don't think he's interested in just, you know, indiscriminately giving away good players. With the trade deadline this year, you know, season and and obviously that's going to continue.

You know, is there a, you know, when you look at some of the teams like Houston, like Atlanta, you know, Rich McKay has already come out and said he's not going to trade for trade veterans for picks and all that stuff. But do you see a superstar being traded this year at all or is this just not the year that we're a team to make a decision like that? Yeah, I can see, you know, there's some real cap ramifications, but, you know, like Michael Thomas getting traded, wouldn't shock me. it's funny like here's what's hard about our sport like you know if

Atlanta recovers the onside kick or does it the trade doesn't score against them you know you're talking about Julio Jones had a statue in front of them in the Mercedes-dain you know same now the discussion is couldn't even trade I think um you know it's clearly the haves and the have not straight out like when Williams being traded doesn't make sense to me I know that was out there um but when you look at the great players on teams that are probably out of it I think it's you know you Atlanta would be one spot I would certainly look. Maybe, like I said, Michael Thomas,

but beyond that, not much more than that. I don't think now with that said, could they be trained in early next off season? Absolutely. You know, when you think about Trevor Lawrence, Kevin, and this is a fun speculation game, but you think about, I think he's going to come out, certainly. But if he said, I'm going to take, you know,

an eight-figure deal from night feet and not play next year, you think about Jacksonville, Atlanta, New Orleans, all those teams, Tampa Bay, over the next two years, that could potentially be looking for a quarterback. That could impact, you know, what happens with Matt Ryan, let's say in March of 2021. I think it's fast. I think the Lawrence thing is worth watching,

and whether or not he wants to play for the Jets obviously remains a scene. Or whether or not, you know, listen, we're usually wrong. You know, every October we say, oh, this team's going to go to in 14, 1,15, 0, and 16, and then they win four games at the end, and the whole thing gets thrown off. Sometimes, sometimes bad, you know,

the worst team stays the worst, but oftentimes it does not. Is Lawrence, in your opinion, having watched him, obviously we don't know until the workouts and all that stuff, but is there any scenario which Lawrence doesn't go number one if he comes out and is willing to play? Is Justin Fields in that conversation? Is Trey Lance?

How does this play out in the next couple months, Mike? Yeah, there's 0% chance that Trevor Lawrence doesn't go one. Like that's 100%. You know, right now, if he never played another play at the universe at Clemson, he has more rushing touchdowns than Kyle Murray. And we think of Carl Murray as this transcendent athlete. He really reminds me a lot of Andrew Luck

and physically, like, when you look at him, he really reminds me of Vinnie Testiferity. He's a big guy, and he's just a guy that is letting him make all the throws and very competitive. So he's clearly won. But one that's interesting to me, from a discussion standpoint, Kevin,

is when you look at Justin Fields, I was at their practice in the summer of 19, and he goes behind me, and I'm like, oh, my God, this kind of looks like Cam Newton. And I'm like, why in the world is Kirby smart not starting at Georgia?

How is he transfer? I'm like, Jacob Fraum must be John Elway. And, you know, that's all I can think of is how in the world could Justin Fields not start at the University of Georgia? That, like, just really, like,

stuck, really stuck out to me. So, I like him a lot. I like his skill set. I think his accuracy is of the crew. I think he's much bigger than Baker Mayfield, Kyle Murray.

He's along the lines of like Joe Burrow. But my big question is Kirby Smart is a really good coach, Kevin. Why can he not start at Georgia? Yeah. It's strange. And we've seen that a couple of times with some of the best picks now

where a guy doesn't initially win the job and then it becomes, why didn't he start? And a lot of the times might be, maybe it's bad coaching, maybe it's just a bad system or whatever. right now. I think that's fascinating. All right, let's fix some teams here, if they can be fixed. Dallas Cowboys, I just don't, I think obviously for this year, it's pretty much over.

But if you were looking at this roster, Mike, and let's assume Dak Prescott's healthy next year, let's assume there's some improvement in the health and the offensive line next year. Where does this team go, knowing what their contracts look like, and just generally, is there any hope there in the short term? Yeah, I think if we do the autopsy, I think, it starts two years ago where Zique Elliott throws to Cabo and they reward that behavior when they should have resigned

Byron Jones. And you look at guys like warmly, Anthony Brown, you know, Trayvon Diggs is skinnily a little bit too early to see how he plays. Jordan Lewis is okay in a slot, but they need an outside guy clearly. So that would be on my short list. And then you look at the liebacker situation. Jalen

Smith's just not playing very well right now. And Banderesh and Sean Lee both can't stay healthy. So the back seven to me is consequential. because you lose your best player who's a good player and a good person and a leader. And your linebackers are awful or not durable. And you haven't replaced Byron Jones. So that, to me, it's really where you have to start.

And then you have to get that offense line healthy because it's something that I just, to our coach for ourselves, just pound it into my head, Kevin, which is you have to be able to control the game in some matter of speaking. And when you have a good offense in line, you can do that. And obviously, that's something that can't be done. And something else that's really interesting to me is, you know, you talk about everything that's part out with that's contract. The best negotiation that's going on for Dak Prescott is their inability to control

without him. Yeah, 100%. And if you're one of these fans or even if you work in that building and that facility and you didn't appreciate Dak Prescott, you have to appreciate Dak Prescott now. I mean, this is beyond debate. And to see what he, he's still number nine in passing yards just because, or how many yards he put up while he was healthy. It's pretty amazing.

Coaching-wise there with Mike McCarthy, you know, it seems to me, like they looked at their roster and they said, hey, we can get a veteran coach in and try to win now and take advantage of a roster talent. It just didn't seem like they actually had the roster talent they thought they did. Was this just a bad philosophy? Was this just the bad path for Dallas to hire Mike McCarthy? And how do you sort of diagnose that?

I think you got to give it a great incomplete. You know, one of the things that I'm very active with is we have a thing thing of a number of former head coaches in GM. We're called a 13. There's 32 NFL teams. And we get together on a weekly basis. And we look at the lead and watch tape and study trends. And our whole mantra is like we love football and we have a growth mindset. We want to get better.

And I just hope that, you know, that's what Coach McCarthy did in his time off. he took some time to get better and invest in himself because that's so important, you know, for him to be successful moving forward. And right now you just don't see it. So I'm not saying it's not a good hire. I think it's a great and incomplete for now, Kevin. But this was a guy that won a Super Bowl. A lot of people said, hey, was that more of Aaron Rogers?

You just don't see the create to be an offense. And obviously we can say, well, it's still Kevin. Keller Moore's offense. But you don't see, you know, an offense that's decided to exploit positive batch. And I think defensively, one of the things like I have the good fortune of working for Coach Belcheng a couple times. And he often talked about if we're going to lose, excuse me, we're going to make the other team beat a slap hand. So I didn't see them double the porn on every play. Like if I'm playing, you know, Washington, like on a double him, I didn't take them out of the game or, you know, whenever, I just feel like their fundamentals have been really poor.

Their sense of urgency has been poor. and when you don't have like sound assignments, that has, to me, that goes back with coaching. There's other things where you can say, you know, not having Byron Jones, you're going to get beat on the outside. We can live with that. But when guys are cut free, that's a concern. The Antonio Brown thing is fascinating to me because I don't,

I think there's a massive downside. But then I talked to always smart people and they say, you know, they can cut them after one week and football-wise, there's no downside. Maybe Mike Evans gets more upset if there's, if there's, you know, no, not enough footballs to go around, but on the other hand, he wouldn't be double-teamed anymore, et cetera, et cetera.

When you look at this from a big picture standpoint, first of all, would you have done the Antonio Brown deal if you were running Tampa right now? 100%. And here's why it's a very, very easy speech,

which is, Antonio, you're coming in for today. It is a one-day contract. And we really hope today goes well. And if it does, you're going to be here tomorrow. This is the second chance.

This is, I didn't know. This is you were five-minute's slate. Everything that happened in the past is a clean slate. We're wiping the whole thing for free. Totally clean. We are starting completely from day one. However, because of all those transgressions in the past,

anything that happens, no excuses, just get in your car. Thank you very much for your services. So we will clearly and truly go by what we see. We're just going to try to stack one good day on top of the next, and hopefully we'll see you here tomorrow. But this is the speech. There's no other hard conversations to have. We don't need to talk about anything.

Be on time, be a great teammate, no noise off the field, be a good citizen, and let's go win a championship. Many questions. Do you think that this makes them on the field of the NFC's best team? Yeah, I think this validates Tom Brady, the general manager, because I think what clearly happened was when you go back to February, Kevin, it was clear that he correctly evaluated Tampa Bay's defense. And we have a conversation, four to six weeks from now, we're talking about what coaches are going to be the hot coaches.

You can write this name down. 100% Todd Bulls will be that hot guy. And I'm not thinking anything away from Eric. The other than really good coaches out there. But they're going to be in the pennant race all the way through. And Todd Bulls has been a head coach in the past and clearly has his unit playing really well. So I think what we're seeing is Tom Brady validating his decision about how good that defense was. and the other thing we're seeing,

and I had the fortune, really good fortune of working with Brett Barr for a year, which is these guys do create mistakes and this aura of association. What I mean by that is, just look at what he's been able to do. Lashamacoy, now, look, we know that it's close to the end,

but Fornet, Brock, A, B, and guys want to go there, you're playing on grass, no state of context, great weather, and oh, by the way, Tom Brady, and that becomes a real force multiplier. So, well, his presence alone makes them incrementally better because when guys start in a salary cap, Europe, take less money to come to you.

It's a competitive advantage. What's your best bread for our story? How we got them, how I closed the deal. So we, it was hard. You know, John Gruden, and I'm really proud of this Kevin, because it validated our organization. But John Ruden coached him in Green Bay. John Gruden is a head coach of Tampa Bay Buccaneers. he's in Mississippi and Gruden's just trying to get him to go across the both

half to go easy trip and he's like you go with the Jets man you're practicing in Tyler Square you don't know those guys it's Eric Van Jeannie Brian Schenheimer Brian Daveall myself and we worked our tails off so we're sitting in real satellite imaging of all the farms in the area that there was going to be mandatory hunting and fishing for farm if he came to the Jets so it's going to be us for Tampa Bay and it's coming down to the end. And he was really worried about our dress code. So I'm like, Brett, we're going to make this trade for Green Bay.

But before I, you know, felt Ted Thompson and John Schneider, we have a deal, I need to know that you're coming. He's like, well, you know, I'm really concerned. I don't like wearing a tie. He's like, what's the dress code on the plane? I'm like, well, we can talk about that. We ought to wear pants. He's like, all right, if I don't have to wear a tie, I think I'm in time. I said, all right, right.

here's what we're going to do. We're going to get you a pair of custom-made 38-inch waist camel pants that will be mandatory for you to wear on the plane if you're a jet. He was like, we got a deal. And that's how we got to be a jet. Wow. I never knew that. That's quite a tale.

What a demand from far. Yeah. And then, of course, I went down there and I took my wife with me because I had to bring him in the out of back. And I get down there. And Brett was like, he was like, it took him forever. and we're sitting in his kitchen and my wife is looking around

like how beautiful of the house this is. I'm like, hey, Michelle, put your head down. You can't get any furnishing ideas. You just married some slap dick who works in a front office. Headed down. No ideas. We work.

We go to restoration hardware, okay? So that hour and a half way probably cost me a lot of money. And I just remember, I was so nervous. I couldn't wait for Britten, Danny, to come downstairs. And at some point I was like,

I'm going to go upstairs again because he's coming back for whether he lost to. or not. It's amazing. Last thing gets you out of here. You talked about the think tank where you're studying trends. What's a trend we're not talking enough about in football that's happening this year?

Oh, without question. Like some of this decision making is fascinating, Kevin. And happy to, you know, look at more of this, you know, along the way of going for two and chasing points. And we just see, you know, teams make mistakes or I think sometimes they made right decisions. You know, let's go back to Romeo Cornell two weeks ago. they're up seven. He goes for two, tries to put the game away. If you throw out the cards for a second, and if we take a half a step back, I don't think that decision is bad when you're saying

paying Sean Watson $39 million a year. And if we can't make two yards with a $39 million player, we have to the wrong guy. Like, I understood why he made that decision. And statistically, it was somewhat overwatched. But that's really interesting what's going around league. Some team's going for two as you're seeing early on. So there's a lot there. And we'll keep mine during that. Mike Tanibump, thanks for joining us. Kevin, great to be with you.

Okay, Ryan Shazir, ring around NFL show, Tuesday host. Very happy to have him here on the Thursday show. Ryan, what's going on, man? Man, how you doing? How you doing, Kevin? I'm doing great. I'm so happy to pod with you. And the reason you're making your debut on this particular show is because the Steelers play

one of the biggest games of the year, I think. And I think it's going to go a long way determining how I feel about not only the the AFC North, but the AFC playoff picture in general. The Steelers play the Ravens at 1 p.m. on Sunday. Should have been a primetime game. It's not. Ryan, big picture. And we're getting to the nitty gritty here in a second.

But where do you see these two teams right now? And not only in the AFC North, one and two, but with the AFC picture in general, can one of these teams be better in the Chiefs? Just if you were to peg these teams, right now, they are aware. So I told Cody this already. I'm not going to say the Steelers are going to lose any games this year. So, you know, I'm already a little biased right there.

Sure. But I'm going to be honest. I'd rather the Steelers win on Thanksgiving than this week. The reason I say that is because the reason I say that is because it's later in the season. You know, it's starting to get more in the crunch time. You know, things are starting to pan out more. You know, because at the end of the day, Things can turn around completely in the league right now.

Like, for instance, the Falcons are one and six. They win their next nine games during the playoffs. You know what I'm saying? Obviously, that's not going to happen, you know? But, you know, but so that's why I say I'd rather than win in Thanksgiving. And I definitely wish this game was flex because I feel this is the biggest game in the week. But I think this is going to be a solid game. And the Steelers Ravens games are always a solid game, always a prime time game.

and they complement each other really well, man. The Ravens like to run the ball and the Steelers' defense. You know, I think they have the number one defense in the league. And they're great at stopping the run. So I think the one splash factor in there, and everybody knows it's always the quarterback is Lamar. It's the fact that he can run. But I think we have the guys that can keep up with him.

It just hurts that we lost Devin. You know, Devin is the guy that we can really have that kind of can spy on him a bit, you know. and they actually played against each other in high school, which is crazy, like, from the same area. So they kind of know each other a little bit, you know, but I think it's going to be a, I think it's going to be a, people going to have a lot of ice baths after this one. Yeah, no, I bet. And it's interesting to me because I think that this front seven, the Seward's front seven against Lamar's real interesting match.

I've talked to Keith Butler in the past about, about defending Lamar. And it's just so hard because, you know, he's as fast as the cornerbacks. You know, you're not going to, how to rearrange a defense, try to stop that. It's fascinating to me. When you look at this front seven against Lamar and how to defend him, let's say geeky here for a second, what is the key to, I guess, containing him if you're the Steelers on Sunday? So Bud Dupree and TJ Watt, I feel right now are the best duo in the league

when it comes to, you know, pass rushers. And I feel the biggest thing for them is to not actually rush Lamar like they rush everybody else. So Bud and TJ have both like four, five, four, six guys. But the thing is with them, they have to rush him but have a contain. So like pretty much make him stay in the pocket and force Lamar to beat you with his arm. You know, because we're going to send pressure at Lamar, but we're going to make him throw. Like, they're going to make him sit back and throw.

And everybody's like, man, and Lamar's like, I'm a quarterback. I'm a quarterback. I'm a quarterback. But you're going to have to make Lamar be Patrick Mahomes and he's not that. you know, like, Lamar's going to have to sit back there, sit in the pocket and throw. I think that's the best way to get him. When you actually try to go at Lamar and try to straight sack him and try to, like, rush the passer,

that's when you open up so many lanes. And then he turns from a pocket quarterback to a scrambling quarterback to a football player. He's not even a quarterback tomorrow. The moment he puts the ball in one hand like this and start shaking people, he's not a quarterback no more. He's a football player. then they have to make him a quarterback.

If you make him a quarterback, I feel Lamar drops down to, you know, regular average style quarterbacks. But when you let Lamar be a football player, that's when he's the best player in the league. From the Stewart's defense perspective, I think it's, I think how they built this team is really solid. And then Kevin Colbert is one of the best general managers in football.

I don't think he gets nearly enough credit for the way he's built that team. And you talked about Dupree, you talked about T.J. Watt. You know, obviously, everybody has for the receiver part of it and how they hit on these guys. but they also obviously hit on front seven guys as well. What do the Steelers look for? How do they build this team that I think that goes unnoticed when we're talking about them nationally, Ryan?

So the thing, like, I even had dinner with a few of the linebackers because I'm still close with a lot of them and bud with one of them. And the thing that the Steelers do is like, they rarely miss on D-Line and linebackers. Like, that's the one thing. Like, they built their whole franchise on that. Like when it came to Mean Joe Green,

you know, when it came to Jack Lambert, when it came to Jane Harrison, you know, Joey Porter. Like, we were talking to Bud, and we was like, man, think about it, the Steelers really don't miss. Like, they went from, you know, Greg Lloyd, Kevin Green, you know, James Harrison, James Ferrier, to Lawrence Timmons,

to Lamont Woodley, to, I said James Harrison again, to Jason Wurles, to, you know, Bud Dupree, T.J. Watt. Then they just drafted Alex Hossmith. Like, when one goes down, they're coming back in with more linebackers. Like, they drafted me, Lawrence Timmons, you know, even Vince Williams, who's bawling. You know, Devin, Devin Bush. Like, the one thing they're going to do is like, hey, we're going to keep reloading at this position because we need these guys to feed the fuel. Like, our front seven is what feeds our defense.

Because this is what people try to realize. Like, everybody's like, Jen and Remedy. He's the best corner in the world. And he is. He probably is. Stefan Gilmore. But those guys aren't as good if they don't have a good pass rush in front of him. And you see how the Patriots are struggling a little bit right now

because their pass rush isn't really getting there. Their team is kind of struggling in general. But when you have pass rush, it makes for a good defensive back. Like if TJ's getting there in two seconds, Buzz getting there in two seconds, only have to cover two seconds. So that means the ball is coming out quick. that's, you think, that's why, you know,

Marcus Peters can jump all these routes. Yeah. You know, because he knows his D-Lines getting back there. When you know your D-Lines get back there, the D-Bs are chilling. They're like, all right, like, this ball's getting out quick. And I don't have to cover guys for six, seven seconds. I don't have to cover guys for two. And that's what makes distillers go.

They let our D-Line, our front seven, they push our D-Bs to be so good because they know, hey, within these next three seconds, we're going to get pressure. And it doesn't matter how we're getting it. Because they build a front seven so we can send guys from any different direction. So I think that's why the Steelers do so well because just historically, they try to make sure that front seven is solid. And then if they get some gems in the back, then it's even better.

Like, you know, like they knew trail was going to be great, you know. And then get Minka, you know, Minka's bawling. You know, then we get Joe and Steve. and everybody's balling. But when your front seven is killing, it makes it so much easier for those guys. And then it allows them to make so much splash. Where do you put the Ravens rivalry when you guys played them?

I mean, obviously it was not like the Browns strictly good when you were a player there. But is there a way, you know, I know in college sometimes, you know, the way that players view rivalries is different than the way that fans do because, you know, a bunch of these guys played against each other in high school or whatever. You know, and the players might hate different teams than the fans do necessarily. So when you're doing the AFC North rivalry thing, how do you, how did you guys view each team inside the locker room? So me personally, this is how I viewed it.

I was like, the Ravens are like our brothers. Like, they're like our twin brother. Like, they're going to get us. We're going to get them. We're going to go out there. They know we know each other to a team. We know how they want to play us. We know their defense is going to be good.

Our defense is going to get it. It's like, hey, it's going to come to. the wire every single game unless like somebody's hurt like Ben was last year or something like that. So that's how we let the Ravens is like, hey man, this is going to be a, I'm a punch you in your mouth, let's see how you respond type of game. I looked at the Bengals. I even said this when I was playing. I was like, they're like our little brothers. They're always nagging us. They're always nagging us. They're like, man, we're good. We're good. We're like, bro. Get out out of my face. Like, get out of my face. You know, like, that's how I used to look at the bangles when I played.

And the Browns, you know, at first, everybody was the Browns were like the stepping stone, you know, like on everybody's stepping stone. Everybody used to just walk over them. But now the Browns are actually a legit team. Like, they're a solid team. It just, you know, right now we have their number. You know, and the thing the Browns, they're known for is they're a solid squad now. But they're one of those teams is, they're one of those teams. If you kind of like step on their throat, they give up.

You know, it's some teams if you step, like, it's. some teams, you step on them, step on, on, step on when they come back. And, like, Tennessee is one of those teams. You know, the chiefs are one of those teams. No matter what's going on, they're going to come back. This still isn't one of those teams. But the Browns are, like, if you jump on them really quick, it's hard for them to come back. The Ravens are like that now, though.

The Ravers are a really solid team, but if you jump out on them, like, they're not built to come back. Like, they're built to play with a lead. The way their defense is built, the way their office is built. They're built to play with a lead. in the way Lamar plays as a football player. But, like, in general, they're not really built to come back from behind and win football games.

Is it frustrating going against a guy? I think Lamar and Kyla, very different players. But when I was watching Kyler on Sunday night, I saw, I mean, it was almost like defenses didn't know what they were supposed to do with him because, you know, he had 50 dropbacks and he never got touched. And can you talk a little bit about just the toll that a Russian quarterback was?

that that's Lamar, whether that's Kyle and Murray, somebody else who just, you think you got an angle and then you don't, all of a sudden, what that does to a defense, Ryan? No, it, it devoid as a defense. It really does because with, like, for instance, Kyle, the difference between Kyle and Lamar is, like, collar is a legit thrower. Like, he is a quarterback.

Obviously, he's young. He misses some throws. He has some bad throws in the game. But, hey, he ended up being an NLC player this week because he has almost, what, 400, almost 500 of your, total offense, like, because he's a problem. Like, they were running, it was the two-minute warning, and they're running quarterback draws.

Like, teams don't do that. That's amazing. Yeah, teams don't do that. Like, that's not even fair. It's not fair, you know? And that's the same thing with Lamar, but the thing is, what was better for it, Collar than Lamar is, like, collar actually has better weapons than Lamar.

Lamar has a really good tight end. He has Hollywood Brown. But I would take college receiver court every day of the week compare to Lamar's. But I'll take Lamar's like running back corn, you know, like me personally.

Right. You know, so, Kyle, he just, he's dangerous, man. Collet kind of reminds me of Russell Wilson. Yeah. While Lamar reminds me

of Michael Vic. And I don't like to try to, like, compare people, but when you really think of it, like Michael Vick, he has a canon. Like, you know he's going to

zoom it down the field. But Michael Vick wasn't the most accurate dude, you know, and like, everybody knows that. Like, he, like, he might be, a Hall of Famer and everything.

But like, when it came to accuracy, he wasn't the most accurate. Like, he changed the game tremendously, but he wasn't super accurate. But Russell Wilson, like, he ran for 50 yards. And, you know, they ran them down, but he was gone. Cala Murray is just like Russell. He's like, I'm going to get out here. I'm going to run when I need to run. But the thing is, if you just let me sit in his pocket, I'm going to throw dimes all game.

You know, and I don't think Lamar is at that point of his game yet. You know, so that's why I feel like, When you're playing against those two, you just got to know who you plan against. Like with Kyle, it's kind of hard because it's just like, hey, I got to just play good defense versus Kyler. When Lamar is like, hey, I'd rather Lamar beat me with his arm than beat me with his legs. Interesting, interesting. Okay, so flipping the defense a little bit, obviously, I think Baltimore is one of, if you just look on paper, one of the most talented defenses in the league, Eric Takasta, keeps finding value and adding to that defense where that's close Campbell in the offseason and Gakway now.

when you're defending Ben Rathesberger right now, what is it? What is the key? Generally, and obviously it seems like Kevin Colbert's done the receiver thing again where he's got Chase Claypool and Dante Johnson and all these guys and they're just going to be them. But if you're the DC of the Ravens this week,

knowing what we know about the Steelers, what are we attacking? So Ben the thing he hates, honestly, is two men. But the Ravens are going to play that. The Ravens are going to play that. The two men, I don't know, if people don't know what it is, It's two high safeties

and everybody else underneath is playing man coverage. And the Ravens have the defense to play that. So Ben doesn't like that at all. You know, but if, you know, they're going to probably pick Marlon Humphreys on Deonté because he's the best route running. So Ben, he has to trust his guys to get open,

you know, or he's going to have one of the runnerbacks get open. So that's going to be the biggest part of the game. If you run that coverage, and hit Ben, that's when you can really get to the Steelers. You know, because they have a good run defense. It just, you have to really start hitting Ben, you know, start like getting under his skin.

Not like talking shit to him or anything like that, but just getting under his skin. And, but if you hit Ben and run like two men, that's kind of what Ben doesn't like the most. But if you don't have the D.Bs to keep it with the receivers, you're going to lose. And the Ravens have the D.Bs to keep her with our receivers. and they have a good run-stopping defense also.

And then they actually have the linebackers to kind of keep it with the tight end and the runnerback. So I think this is going to be really... This is a five-star matchup, honestly, I think so. When you say you can get out of the best of skin, is it hard to get under his skin? Is it hard to rattle him? I feel like it's hard to rattle him

because Ben is so used to getting hit. Like, people hit Ben all the time. You know, he's a big quarterback. And he's... I'm not going to say it's to Cam Newton's level. But, like, Ben takes a lot of hits. and penalties aren't called for being like they are with other elite quarterbacks in the league

because he's just such a big guy. You know, so... But the more you hit him, it just... If you just keep hitting anybody, it just starts getting frustrated, and it's just like, damn, man, like, like, I'm tired of getting hit. And if you start hitting quarterbacks enough,

it starts to get under the skin, and then their throws on as accurate. And they're not... He's not going to get flustered, but it just, it's not going to be, it's just, you can tell that he start, he started forcing things more than he would at the beginning of the game. Who's the, what's the most rattle you've ever seen an opposing quarterback? The most rattle I've ever seen an opposing quarterback was Andy Dalton. We played Andy Dalton.

And I'm not even trying to talk shit on the Bengals, but it was Andy Dalton. We played Andy Dalton, and the game was close. The game, like, when I played with the Bengals before I got hurt, the Bengals were like the Browns right now. Like, they were always really good. You know, but it just like, they'll slip into the playoffs, but they couldn't win the playoff game. And Andy Dalton, he would, uh, it was a really close game. I think they were down seven, but we were hitting him all game.

And it was like a fourth and eight with like a minute left. If they drive, they get tied up the win again. I mean, like the win the game, but to go to overtime or we'll get the ball back. And it was fourth and eight. And we sent, it was like, we was in like a zone coverage. But then I left my, I vacated my zone because he scrambled. And I started running at him. And then he just said, fucking and threw the ball into the stands.

And I'm like, it's fourth and eight. Like, like, you have to at least give your team a chance to win. You know, he said, fuck it, like game over. And then just walked over and just like, hey, we lost. And like, you see his teammates with like, like, how the hell you throw this ball away? It's fourth and eight. Like, we have a chance to win. Like, at least give AJ a chance.

He was like, man, fuck this game. This game's over. Like, we were really hitting him, though. I think we had, like, five sacks on him. And then, like, we had, like, 10 plus QB hits. Like, he was getting jacked up that game. And he was just like, man, fuck this shit. Like, I'm done.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry for cussing so much. But, like, that's how he felt. He was like, I'm done with this. Like, I'm not playing no more. That's exactly what I wanted when I asked that question. That's unbelievable. All right.

We're going to add in Nora Princiata here from the ringer. Nora. What's going on? Not much. I just dropped in on the end of that story. and that was phenomenal. You had to move away from the microphone, I saw it because you were laughing so hard. You hadn't introed me yet and I didn't want to like cackle into my microphone and cause a stir.

So I kind of feel like if there was unexplained, if there was unexplained laughter during that story, the listener would have understood. I'll say that. All right. So we're going to do an exercise here that I love doing in the preseason and I think in the middle of this season where we're starting to learn more about these teams. I think it's a really useful thing. And it's how many teams can win the Super Bowl. Because there's so many teams.

You look at the entire, you know, Cowboys and the Eagles six months ago, we're saying, oh, well, you know, one A, one B in the NFC East. And that still might be true, except they're just completely removed from the Super Bowl conversation. They're competing for something else. I don't know what they're competing for, but it's certainly not the Super Bowl. Okay. And so I want to just sort of go through the NFL here and the numbers and just figure out who we still think.

We did this with Kalyn Jones and Danny Kelly in the preseason. We had about 16 to 18 teams. That's pretty typical when we do this. And now I would guess it's about halved. Nora, we'll start with you. How many teams can win the Super Bowl? I have seven on my list. Oh, okay.

Kind of stingy maybe. Two honorable mentions. Do you want me to say who they are? I do. Yes. All right. So number one is the Chiefs, the Steelers, the Ravens, the Bucks, the Packers, the Seahawks and then the Titans.

And then I'm giving honorable mentions to the Rams and the Saints who ultimately did not make my cut, but those were the ones that I had to think about. Wow. Okay. The Rams are an interesting one to me. And I don't, I have them on my list. And I want to get to that in a second.

Ryan, are the Rams on your list? They might be an honorable mention, but I don't know if they're on my list. Okay. So I have the Steelers. the Steelers I got the Steelers I got the Chiefs

the Ravens Packers Saints then I'm gonna go with Seattle the Bucks and then I'm gonna have to go with I like Arizona and Tennessee but I'm gonna have to go with Arizona

over Tennessee Ooh okay I want to unpack a couple of them there number one the Saints So Nora you did not have the Saints Ryan you did What do you still see, Ryan, from the Saints that makes you think, okay, there's a pathway here?

To me, I feel with the Saints, everything's going to start working for them at the end of this season. I feel like they're going to start getting in the groove. I feel when Mike Thomas comes back, it's going to really start, like, resourging their offense a little bit. Drew Brees has been doing this for a while, but he's just been giving the ball to Mike Thomas,

and Mike Thomas has been turning water into wine. You know, like, He's really been just giving him the ball five yards and Mike Thomas turns into 100 yards in 15 receptions every game. You know, but now he doesn't really have a guy that does that. So it looks crazy when Jeebreeze does it. So I feel like they're pretty solid. Their defense is not still good, you know,

and everybody is like, dang, the saints aren't good. The saints aren't good. The saints aren't good. And they're still four and two. You know, so I feel like they just understand how to win. That's one reason I have them in. that's interesting. Nora, why did you have the San San Antonio Monitions list? And not your Super Bowl list.

This is a real, this is a real Man, Calpa for me, because I had them picked to win the Super Bowl before the season. And now it's week seven and they're not able mention. Wow. I'm over it. I'm done. Way to stick to your guns, Nora. Really just so much conviction with the takes here. It's really more about the defense than the offense

is the funny thing because we spent the first couple of weeks of the season worrying more about breeze and what their offense was going to be able to do. But it just feels like whenever they're defending, the secondary is like busted coverage, past interference, busted coverage, pass interference. And most of those guys, Latimore, Janoris Jenkins, all of their safeties, those are talented players who individually, I would say, okay, give them a little bit more time, they'll bounce back. But they're one of the worst defenses in the league at this point.

And we're close to the midway point of the season. So are they a top half NFL team to me? Yeah, totally. But with the way that offenses have performed so far this year, I just don't see them making it super far in the playoffs, which is, again, crazy because I thought they were going to win the Super Bowl. Yeah. Yeah, you definitely made it.

You made a case for that one. Ryan, I'm curious in this season, and this is, again, we've said every episode, and we say it probably every time I'm talking about football this year, is this is the weirdest season of all time, no OTAs, no real training camp. You don't put the pads on until August 15th, all this stuff. Do you think that in general defenses are going to get better as the season goes along, or do you think that they're a team like the Saints, they kind of are who they are at this point,

and there's not really an opportunity for them to get better? I feel that at this point in the season, you kind of know whose defenses have stepped up. But some defenses do catch fire, especially towards the end of the year. Like the Chief's defense, they were one of the worst defenses in the league of last year. And then towards the end of the season, they just caught fire. And just, like, obviously their office is always on fire, but their defense did exactly what they needed to do at the right times.

They allow their offense to, you know, start game momentum and start scoring. So that's the reason I like the Saints because obviously their defense is playing piss poor right now. but I feel give them about four more weeks and then it's really tough on defenses when you can't trust your offense as much. And obviously they're winning games, but I feel like their defense is still kind of like nervous about what their offense is going to do

and then that really pits a lot of pressure on you and guys make a lot more mistakes. You know, so I feel if they start, because I still think they're going to win when they play six games, where it's 10 more to go, I don't see them losing five more games, you know, so I think, I think they're not going, they're going to definitely be a wild card team.

I just think once their defense started getting a groove, I think the last four weeks of the season, their defense is going to actually start figuring things out and their offense is going to actually be going smooth. Because right now, all you're doing, all you hear is Avicamara gets the ball. Alvin Kamara gets the ball. Ivan Kamara gets the ball. You know, so like, once you start hearing Avicamara, Mike Thomas, and then when Mike comes in, I think you're going to balance things.

things out because Mike used to get all those receptions. Now Drew Brees doesn't have anybody else to trust. And then the defense, when you look at an offense that's struggling, the defense, they're like, oh, man, all right, we got to go out here and really try to shut people out. And when you're trying to do that, that's when guys really start making so many mistakes. Like, they really start really playing out of character and you start seeing PI's because guys are trying to, you know,

trying to make sure a guy doesn't score or make sure a guy doesn't score or make sure a guy guy doesn't get a first down. And that's when you start seeing things really piled up. I do wonder, too, their offseason was really interesting to me. And it's something that we wrote about where Sean Peyton was one of the first coaches to just say, go home. We're not having OTAs. It's not happening.

You're a veteran team. We trust you. Get your stuff done. Stay in great shape. Probably come back for training camp. We'll see you when we see you. And in the moment, I thought that was a really cool approach. and imagined that it was going to resonate with the players

and they were smart veteran guys who could be trusted to take care of their business. I do wonder when you see a unit like their defense, which has so much talent, not playing up to their potential, if there's a little bit of hindsight saying maybe they actually fell behind a little bit in that period, And I don't know.

They would have to make their own judgments about that. But it's possible we tend to see defenses get better as the season goes on. And this could be one that does that even more so than your average unit just because, one, they have a lot of talent. Two, they did have a little bit of a different offseason. Even in a year when everybody had a different off season, there's what was, I think, particularly different. So we'll see.

But honorable mention status in the. instead of Super Bowl potential winner. Yeah, it's a great point. They're definitely like my last team to win the Super Bowl. They're like one of my last teams. They're not, they're not, you know, I definitely have teams way above them on that list. Yeah, no, of course.

I want to talk about the Titans because you seemed, you like Arizona more than them, Brian. With the Titans in particular, what is it that maybe you have them behind some of the other teams? Because I'm, I don't know, listen, I don't, I don't have the Titans on my, you know, Chief Steelers Ravens playing right now. But I do have the Titans as, okay, there's a couple things

that are going to right here and all of a sudden they're playing in Tampa. Where are you on the Titans right now? The reason I don't like the Titans as much, obviously, you know, they came back on the Steelers at the end of the game. But if you slow down Derek Henry, their offense starts the struggle, like big time. You know, I know they had a game with Derek here.

We had 200 and Tenet Hill had 300, but like that's not going to happen a lot this season. You know, so I feel when you really, if you can figure out a way to slow down Derek Henry, like the Steelers did at the beginning of the game, that's when they started getting sticky for them. And, you know, the Steelers started to pull back the throttle a little bit, and that's why they start to come back, you know. But in the playoffs, people aren't pulling the throttle back, you know. And obviously, they jumped out pretty much on everybody they played last year,

and the Chiefs are the only ones to come back on them. And I don't think that they can do that again. I think once the playoffs come, most teams are going to have their defense set to stop the especially the Super Bowl caliber teams. And then they have a really solid defense, you know. So I think that's going to keep them in all the fights. But I just don't trust Tannenhill enough to call him a Super Bowl quarterback, me personally. Interesting.

Interesting. That's fascinating. Nora, when did you take the Patriots off your list or were they ever on your list? To win the Super Bowl, they were never on the list. Never on the list. I actually don't remember if I put them in the list at the end of the year. Why is that? Why is that?

They don't have receivers. They don't. Who is he throwing to? And they had all those opt-outs. You know, Ryan, do you want to know the answer just to prove to you that you're talking to a couple of cowards? Kevin and I both, as soon as all of those opt-outs happened, we both were like, this gives us a reason to pick against Bill Belichick. And this gives us covers. So that if he ever, like, shows up at my door knocking, we were like, it's just the opt-outs, Bill, I promise.

Ryan, we were so worried. He's giving people so many, like, oh, yeah, we had, I told my dad, I was like, man. I feel bad for Cam because, like, his team is really bad. And then, like, then the best players on his team on defense said, I'm not playing. So it's just like, I'm like, it's not even fair because they're really known for their defense. And then Tom Brady, but their defense is really what carries them. And most of the guys are like, I'm not playing. And I'm like, man, this is not fair at all.

Well, and now Stefan Gilmore's house is on the market. I don't know if this has gotten beyond the Boston media. market, but the big news is that Stefan Gilmore is selling his house and everyone is very a Twitter about it. No, but so they said that they was talking about trading him before the season. So. Yeah, wow.

Yeah, I think that's, I mean, I think that's been a possibility for a while, but the real estate listing says they need final offers by 5 p.m. next Tuesday. So the day of the deadline. That's what he says?

Amazing. Yeah, I love the, you know, Player X is selling his house. Rumor Mill cycle because maybe he's just selling his house. But, yeah. I'm selling my house right now. People are like, oh, you're moving from Pittsburgh? I'm like, no, I'm just selling my house. I'm just moving.

Sometimes people move. Yeah. Yeah, I always love that. It's like, no, we're just trying to move to your house. It happens. Doesn't mean anything. I also think, I think he and his wife are like starting a family too. Like, they might just need a different house.

Yeah. But it wasn't the top. Brady thing was real last year. Everybody was like he's selling his house and there was something who said it meant something. Some people said it didn't. So I think it's fascinating. But he was a free agent though.

Yeah. Not yet. But he was like he had like the option of, he had the option to opt out, you know. Yeah. He really lives in California. So it was just like I can move, you know. The self-voiding contract or whatever it was that it was going to make him a free agent last year.

All right. Quickly, here's my list. Bill's, Chiefs, Steelers, Ravens, Titans. not the Colts, although I want to put them on. Browns are an honorable mention. And the NFC, just throw the NFC East in a garbage can. NFC West, Seahawks, Cardinals, Rams, Packers, Bucks. That's the list.

So with the Cardinals, Ryan, you mentioned them, and you said you even like them more than Tennessee. We talked about about pathways here. What has to go right for them to get into the NFC conversation? So the reason I like, though, their defense is actually starting to step up. Yeah. Like last night, their defense has.

some really big stops on, you know, a lot of people's Super Bowl favorite, MVP favorite, and their defense had a really a lot of big stops, not last night, but Sunday. And they had a lot of big stops. And I have Carla Murray as my MVP of the league this year. So, but that was before the season, you know, like right now it's kind of, but he's putting his name back into the conversation, you know, so I think they have a really solid squad. They have receivers, they have receivers all across the board.

You know, if Ken and Drake comes back, they have a. solid running back, they have a solid backup running back with admins. You know, you can't tackle Colin Murray one-on-one. And then if their defense started to step up, you know, I think the only thing that that really hurts their defense, they don't have speed. So like, like Tyler Lockett

was bombing them left and right. You know, like they just, if they stopped the big play, I think their defense can be solid. Because especially in the fourth quarter, like those blizzes that they were designing and confusing Russell Wilson with, but I think if they could

Do that to, you know, all the top of quarterbacks in the lead. That's going to be your problem. Hey, with Isaiah Simmons in particular, obviously he makes that play late in the game, which I thought was fantastic. But obviously, he hasn't been on the field for as much as maybe expected. He does so many different things. He's positionless. We talk about so many different things.

But obviously, he's a tool and a weapon for that defense. When you're trying to do so many different things as Simmons is eventually going to do, does it just take longer to get on the field? And what specifically when you watch Simmons does he need to do, is it just the fact that maybe the size isn't there so they're going to need to do different things with them or he's not going to be an every down guy? When you watch Simmons,

how do you think he kind of takes the leap and meets the expectations we thought, Ryan? See, I feel like Isaiah Simmons is like Mika when Mika was at the Dolphins right now. So, like, they're trying to figure out, like, he can do so much stuff. Let's pit him everywhere. It's like, no, let him learn one position first

and let him be good at that. And then let's splash him other places. Don't splash him all over the place while he's young because right now, like, and he's a smart guy, but this is the NFL, man. Like, you got to learn fast. There's a lot of stuff you're learning and you're turning. And a lot of teams, they change plays every week. So imagine Isaiah trying to learn a play at linebacker, a play at corner, a play at safety, not corner, but slot.

And then safety, they did, like, rush all in one setting, you know, while most everybody else on the defense is just learning one position. So, like, now, like, he's a young guy. He's, and he still has to understand, like, every defense has a concept. So, like, with me, I knew what every person was going to do. So, like, when I played, they'd be like, hey, Ryan, play corner. If they were like, hey, we're running a man up in a zone blitz. I was like, all right, I know what every corner does in this zone blitz, no matter what. If we run this type of zone blitz, I know what this guy does.

But he doesn't know all the concepts yet. So it's hard to pin him in different places because he's just trying to learn a position. instead of learning the concept. And when you're not learning the concept, it's kind of hard to plug and play. So it's really hard for him to learn everything right now. And I think that Arizona just need to focus on letting him play either linebacker or safety.

And then let him focus on that for this year. And then you move around next year. Me personally, because it's hard. It's hard at first. We'll get you out of here on this question, Ryan. You mentioned just the fact that young quarterbacks are getting more accurate and all that stuff. And I've heard the theory that really, as you said, you know, even though you want to blitz young quarterbacks,

some of these young quarterbacks are just impervious to Blitzers. They can, they know exactly where they need to be. They're coached up on it. They're just, you know, they can process things really quickly. Where do you think defenses evolve in the next two, three, four years to counteract the way young quarterbacks are playing? So a lot of defenses are, you know, kind of trying to get Ryan Shazier type linebackers nowadays. So, you know. A lot of podcasts, too.

Yeah. Yeah, I know. So, now, you know, I feel like having faster linebackers will be really good. And then you have to have really athletic de-lin or outside linebackers because then it makes, it makes, you can keep up with those guys. So, like, for instance, if Kyle Murray's running out of the pocket, he's not running his fastest when he's scrambling. But when he's scrambling, he's trying to, you know, trying to find, he's trying to look down the field. If you have like a bud, you pre-R. T.J. Watt chasing him. Now you have a guy that's a legit four, five, four, six guy chasing him.

Now he's like, oh, snap, I have to actually run. You know, so when he's actually running, now he's not looking down field and it forces him to run. And then sometimes that's when the quicker linebackers can get up and make those tapos. But I feel like linebackers are just going to constantly try to get faster. And the slower guys, like bigger slower guys are not going to be in the league as much. but a good way to confuse young quarterbacks,

you just got to disguise coverages pretty much like the whole game. So, like, for instance, if you're showing too high, you got to show too high the whole game. So now I'm like, oh, they're in two men. I can run. And then right when he snapped the ball, the safety comes down, and now you're in cover three. Or now you're in man to man, but you got a, you know, a robber at safety.

That's what really confuses young quarterbacks. And that's how, like, you know, the Steelers picked off, Baker for that pick six. Baker thought, oh, man, this is smooth. Then Mika just runs right in and pick off the ball. You know, so if you do that, the young quarterbacks, it really confusing them because, you know, they have to read the defense before

their play, and they're like, hey, they're in too high. All right, this should be open. But older quarterbacks, like Tom Brady, you know, Mahomes, he's young, but he still knows it now. They can look at the defense, but like, all right, this is too high,

but they know that this dude can get open. so they're not going to really run this. He's coming down. Like, I can see Terrell Edmonds. He's a young guy. He's cheating. You know, so, like, they see that type of stuff and then they know how to beat it.

But young guys, they're so like, they're like Isaiah Simmons, they're still learning and there's so much going on at this time. They're still trying to figure it out. And, you know, young guys, young people are always in the rest. They're like, I got to get here.

I got to get here now. You know, but like, and I was like that. You know, I have to get here now. You know, but, you know, older guys, they were like, like, Phila Rivers, he hikes the ball with zero seconds on a clock every single play, you know, like, you know, because he's like, I don't, I don't need the rush. Like, we just have to figure this out. With young guys, they're like, man, come on, let's go, let's go, let's go. Like, we got to figure it out. And that's why,

that's why defense is, really veteran defenses, they confuse them a lot and pit him in bad positions. I'm bought into the Cardinals now. We're in, we're all in. Yes, we're all in in the Cardinals. Ryan convinced me. The entire purpose of, this pod. I'm going to be honest. I still have Tom Brady and Ben Rafflesberger in the Super Bowl, though. But Cardinals are definitely up there. That's my Super Bowl. Yeah. No, I feel better about the Cardinals. I was on shaking ground before this pot. I didn't know if I could include them in that. Now I'm very confident. Thanks for joining us,

guys. This has been the Ringar-Ren-Fell Show and the one of the podcast network.