The Ringer NFL Show - Hope or Dysfunction? New-Look Bears Off to a Rocky Start, With Tyler Dunne.

Episode Date: September 17, 2025

Founder of the Go Long Substack and podcast Tyler Dunne stops by the show to talk with Sheil about the Chicago Bears' curiously slow start to the 2025 season after an offseason of media-heightened expectations. (00:00) Intro/cold open (3:25) What’s wrong with the new-look Bears? (6:53) Did the Bears organization fail Caleb Williams? (13:24) Ben Johnson’s impact on the Bears (18:29) Cautious optimism with Ben Johnson going forward (24:15) The Hurry Up: Tom Brady and the Las Vegas Raiders The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.rg-help.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Sheil KapadiaGuest: Tyler DunneProducer: Chris SuttonSocial: Kiera Givens and Brian WatersProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Shield Capadia. We're talking the new look Chicago Bears today. Ben Johnson. Oh, and two, the takes are flying. Caleb Williams, the ticks have been flying, are flying, will be flying maybe for the next decade. Who knows?

But I'm thrilled to have my friend Tyler Dunn, long time NFL reporter with a terrific substack called Go Long where he does long for him. Deep Dives. And one of those deep dives was a three-part eye. opening series on the Chicago Bears called House of Dysfunction. Tyler, so much to get to. But let's start with this. What's the most interesting Caleb Williams nugget to you that you unearthed doing all that reporting you did for this monster series? Oh, man. Well, hey, it's a pleasure to be here with a legend. Thanks so much for having me. It's always great to crosspass. I'd say

there are many. Talk to 32 people. It's like 27,000 words so people can dig into it and maybe come up with their own nugget, I'm sure. To me, it's the process. It's the fact that you've got the most treasured asset in pro sports and you didn't consider anybody. The GM Ryan polls and the scouts laughing Drake May off the screen. Jane Daniels never a serious conversation had around the Heismaner trophy winner. Bo Nix and Michael Pennix did they were footnotes. They thought that Nix was paralysis by analysis, that he was going to overanalyze the position. Penix was lumped into that Spencer Ratler and Michael Pratt bucket. J.J. McCarthy, you know, they hammered him for working with mental coaches.

There were no negatives at all discussed when it came to Cail Boy. And so to me, it's that is the manipulation of the scouting process, the draft meetings. And that's how some very serious red flags just trickled right through the cracks and they're in the situation they're in. Yeah, Tyler takes you kind of inside the draft process in that terrific series that everyone should check out. I want to get to where we are now, where this thing is going, what we've learned through two weeks. So let's take a break. We'll come back. We'll do all of that. This is the Ringer NFL show presented by Fandul, and the NFL is officially back. So if you're going

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states. We're 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-88-78-98-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Paid endorsement. All right, we're back on the ringer NFL show. Tyler, here's where I'm at.

Okay, first two games of Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams. I don't feel that much differently about this team and about Caleb Williams than I did last year. I think the highs with Williams are high. I could send you 10 plays from this season and be like, man, the talent is undeniable. How many quarterbacks can do that? I absolutely see the flashes. I want to see more. At the same time, the offense is 28th in EPA per drive, 31st in success rate.

He's holding on to the football on average longer than he did last year. The run game is the worst in the NFL statistically. You bring in Ben Johnson. You hope that's not the case. So where I'm at is, I just think this is going to be more of a slow, gradual process. I could be wrong. But what in your opinion, based on your reporting, is going to determine whether Caleb Williams becomes the quarterback that Bears fans so desperately want him to be or whether it just kind of goes

sideways? This is why I love reading you Shield, because I feel like we use very different parts of our brain. I mean, you know how to apply numbers to this sport in a way. I'll never comprehend. And to me, I think there's value to the human side of pro football where that's probably what shocked me most through the reporting of Cale Williams himself, his day-to-day interactions with coaches. Look, he did not want to take coaching from this previous staff. And look, they're not completely innocent.

And they'd be the first to tell you that they coddled him from day one, basically castrated their own playbook, went to a ready-set go, snap count. They eliminated plays, they eliminated checks. They made it as streamlined and simple as possible to the extreme. They went too far. They had his best pal, John Jackson, the third, who caught five passes in four years in USC on the practice squad. They went too far to make their franchise quarterback happy. There's got to be a middle ground there where it reached a point of no return.

He wasn't open to coaching. They would try to tell him something and he would just walk away. they'd be in meetings, he'd be on the wrong page, you know, not engaged. A coach would ask him a question, he'd kind of stare at you like, why you asking me that question? They wanted him to break down the team after practice. It got so awkward, they stopped doing it. They named him a captain. He really wasn't voted a captain.

That whole process was Rick. Everything they did was to cater and coddle, and it reached that point of no return. So to answer your question, yes, he's talented as hell. And I was, you know, consuming Caleb Williams content in those five-minute highlight reels myself, those USC days. And you can still see those moments in the pros. But is he going to stare in the mirror and realize he's got to hold himself accountable? That he's got to change the way he works day to day because he doesn't work like Jane Daniels. I've talked to people close to Jane Daniels.

They are in completely different galaxies. So only Caleb Williams could answer that question. Is he doing what's necessary to work? behind the scenes to get to the point where you function within a Ben Johnson offense. Because if you're willing to do that, he's going to dial up the perfect play. You're going to have a receiver open down the field. We already see that two games in. So a big part of Tyler's reporting for those who haven't checked it out.

And again, I encourage you to check it out. A big part of what you did, Tyler, was there's this narrative all offseason that the coaches, the organization, failed Caleb Williams. And this is a big topic in the NFL right now, Kevin O'Connell saying, organizations fail quarterbacks, more than quarterbacks fail organizations. And you went in just say, let me find out if that's the case. It did a lot of reporting. Talk to 32 sources.

And you came out and kind of painted the picture. Maybe Caleb Williams needs to be more accountable than just everyone letting him down. It's so interesting when I hear kind of coaches talk about a player that way or whoever in the building. And one thing I came back to it, I'm curious, because it's a little pushback. I want to know what you think about this. Do coaches understand what their jobs are? Like, I've heard this from coaches before in the NFL. They'll talk about a, and I know you've heard this, a prospect coming in.

This guy never went under center in college. This guy had to look at the sideline for play calls. This cornerback didn't play any press coverage. And I'm always like, guys, this is what the money's for. They're not going to come in and be ready made. And it's like, oh, here, just plug them in, show them the plays. And you're off because they're town. Like isn't part of the job of coaches to a guy who might be a challenging personality,

might not want to take to coaching. Isn't their job to get through to him and say, listen, you might have done it one way. We need to convince you that you need to do it this way to fulfill your potential for us to win games. And I think Ben Johnson understands that. I want to get to him in a minute here. But how do you kind of view that when coaches, when you hear stuff from people inside the building and do they need to bear that responsibility? A, find a way, that's what the money's for.

100%. I'm totally with you. If I'm being completely honest, when I started reporting on this series, that's where I thought this thing was going. I came to this as a Caleb Williams apologist. How could this coaching staff, this franchise that has been just a poverty franchise

when it comes to the quarterback position for a century, how could they ruin what we saw USC? And, you know, that's why you got to keep an open mind because it's not just these coaches and front office execs and scouts and players that I talked to in that locker. You know, it's not like they're just saying, hey, you know, this guy stinks, he doesn't want to work hard. There's specific examples given.

I mean, they're supplying anecdotes of it's a Friday walkthrough and half of this stuff is getting botched. It's a Saturday, and he's not paying attention. He's not watching film. We can literally see it on the tablet that he's not putting in the time. There's a lot that went into this. And, I mean, it got to the point where the players wanted Tyson Bayesian after that New England loss. They lose to New England 19 to 3.

And, yeah, the coaches, they wanted to get some competition going. Matt Ebrofuss told the coaches they were going to get some competition for Caleb Williams and that maybe they'd move Shane Waldron up to the box. And the next day, Shane Waldron is the head that is supplied on a plate. As the scapegoat, he's fired because Ryan Poles basically stepped in from what I was told and said, hell no, like we're not going to bench Caleb Williams for Tyson and Beijing at this point. Long-winning ways, then, yes, I think you're right. I think even these coaches would agree that, you know, that it is on them, right?

And it is your job to kind of take some bullets for your play. inherently. They said this. It's part of the job. But I think it's different because in this case, and this is what surprised me, like they did twist and contort and bend and change the playbook and the way they coach and the way they do everything for Caleb Williams. It's not like Ryan Poles just sat in a meeting with the coaches and said, all right, guys, we got to kiss this guy's ass. But it was kind of understood because the roles were reversed going into this thing. They're recruiting Caleb Williams. They're trying to convince him to play for the

Chicago Bears from December on through the draft process. They weren't really interviewing him. They weren't really investigating anything. And so you're not discussing the work ethic in meetings. You're not discussing the real flaws to his game. You're not discussing the medical in a way that you discuss medical with seventh round picks in UDFA's, let alone a first overall pick at the quarterback position. So I think that psychologically it was so warped from a franchise point of view that the

coaches actually went, they went too far to make everything easy for Caleb Williams. And so Shane Waldron as OC, his personality, he's non-confrontational. You know, if Caleb Williams just walked away from him, he wouldn't really say anything, do anything from what I was told. And so bad habits festered, bad attitude out of the quarterback festered. So by the time he gets fired, Thomas Brown comes in, he is old school. He is no BS. I mean, he is going to be in your face.

It was kind of too late for all that. Like, when he was the interim head coach and it's talking to the whole team, he's telling everybody, we got to hold the quarterback accountable. Like, we hold everybody accountable. But with five games to go, I think the damage was done. And that, you know, not to fast forward to Ben Johnson here, but I think Ben Johnson, he brought that approach day one in, you know, April off-season workouts into OTAs training camp.

And so now we're really going to see. We're seeing if Caleb Williams can respond to that kind of coaching. Because if you can't keep up with Ben Johnson's playbook and Ben Johnson's office, he'll find a quarterback who can. Yeah, I want to talk about Ben Johnson more. Let's take a break. We come back and I want to talk about where this goes now with the Ben Johnson, Caleb Williams, Partnership.

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Base plan required. Device and content restrictions apply. Terms restrictions and embargoes apply. Excludes digital only games. Commercial use excluded. No refunds. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. The one thing that really stood out, and I think I kind of knew this in my head, but reading

your piece, I'm like, they got a lot riding on Ben Johnson here, you know, because you paint a picture, I would say it's an unflattering picture of Ryan Poles and his ability to lead, make good decisions. I think you wrote that he's terminally online, according to people you talk to, very worried about what the media thinks about him. And to be fair, there's probably more GMs in the NFL where that applies to than maybe an average observer might think. But there is a balance there. Like there's a balance to what we're talking about with the Caleb Williams coddling. You know, there's that fine line between are you supporting the quarterback and making things easier for him in a positive way or is it just coddling and it's leading to an end product

that's not developing him and not good for anyone. So with Ben Johnson coming in, I feel like he set the tone. It felt like very early on, both behind the scenes in front of the media that nope, he's going to be held accountable. I'm not just going to come out here and tell you he's doing great. I thought you had pretty interesting nuggets there on maybe some of the personnel control or some of the influence and decision making that Ben Johnson might have. So what's your understanding of kind of what is different with Ben Johnson and just, it feels like the franchise, it's obviously riding on Caleb Williams, but it's also riding on Ben Johnson in a big, big way right now.

Yeah, more than I realized going into this thing. You see that they're paying them $13 million a year and you assume there's going to be a lot of responsibility that comes with that. But then you hear about Ryan Poles manipulating that draft process and really not having a genuine conversation. The way he fires people blew my mind. I mean, calling one of the scouts who's in the hospital about to have a baby, he tells you he's about to have a baby and you tell him, yeah, when your contract's up, you know, we're probably going to be moving on here. And it's because you have a bad attitude. There were many stories like that that blew my mind.

And then there's Kevin Warren's stories. And from the top down, all the way to all the way to McCasky, Ben Johnson walked into a, House of dysfunction times 100 more than he probably ever realized. But that's kind of the silver lining is I think that he does have the power from a coaching perspective, obviously, to incorporate his offense. And look, if he wants to play Tyson-Bajun, he's going to play Tyson-Bajer or any quarterback. I can't see Ryan Poles having the power to step in this time and say no. So that's a bonus.

That's a plus. He's able to coach his team to win games unlike the previous staff where winning really wasn't the number one priority at one point. And then I do think he's going to, I think he, you got to kind of read between those tea leaves. But yeah, they drafted a tight end after they paid a tight end two years prior and Cole Komet. They drafted Luther Burden. You know, I was told by some of these scouts that that's somebody we never would have touched in the past with his red flags that you heard out of Missouri.

You know, it sounds like he does have some personnel say, you know, beefing up the offensive line. I think that Jeff King behind the scenes is quietly a force of good. you know, he's been there since 2015. He's seen how these seasons just fall apart from the inside, you know, climbing up the ranks like he has. And I think that he's just another front office member, right? For people.

Right. Jeff, Jeff King. Yeah. Okay. Right. So, I mean, there's, it's not, I guess, it's not like everybody who works for the Chicago Bears is a dunce, right? They've got one of the smartest offensive minds in that building right now

and Ben Johnson. And I was talking to a GM who knows him really well. And he said, look, this is somebody who's going to lock himself in the office. And he's going to find every answer to every question he could possibly face on Sunday. He's going to work and work. It's kind of oil and water with him and the quarterback and the way they approach the sport. And really, the way they approach the position, I think Caleb Williams is, he's always excelled in backyard football.

Ben Johnson wants somebody who is going to interpret that play, run that play, take the open receiver that's there, timing, rhythm, all of that. So we'll see how it all meshes. I thought it was going to be a perfect storm going into this thing, but the more you kind of learn how both kind of operate, I'm not so sure, man. I think that this thing is trending the wrong direction,

and people who know Ben Johnson really well, they insist that if he needs to, he will play another quarterback. Like he will be unafraid to make that move. but it's important to remember, even right there in Chicago, like, you know, Mitch Trubisky was Matt and Aggie's guy until he wasn't. Justin Fields was Matt Eberflus and Ryan Poles' guy until he wasn't. You know, these coaches and GMs inherit other people's quarterbacks,

the leash is going to be shorter. Like, it's human nature. Like, that's not my guy. That's not who I drafted. He's going to want to play the quarterback that he believes can run his offense at some point. Yeah. I'm cautiously optimistic on John. and that this can work out, granted, not that it will.

I'm not going to send you my life savings, Tyler, and say it's definitely going to work out. But I like what I've heard from Ben Johnson. I think he has a track record of success with offensive scheming. He is a smart offensive mind, like you said. And I feel like he had options and he chose this option. He had to have done his homework, some homework on Caleb Williams. And you know how NFL coaches are. They look at a situation that goes bad.

and they say, I'm a great coach. If I go there, I can fix that. I can fix that. I can fix him. I can fix this. If they're talented enough, I am the person. This is how, especially I think offensive coaches in the NFL. I mean, these guys think that, hey, we reinvented, you know, X, Y, and Z. And I'm going to get the most of this guy.

And I'm going to show everyone that the last regime couldn't, previous coaches couldn't, but I'm going to be able to do it. So it's so interesting. It's one of the biggest stories in the NFL. They're 0 and 2. They got the Cowboys at home this week. That is a defense that Russell Wilson got after and that Giants offense got after last week. And I thought even last week in that Lions game, you know, the first half,

I thought there were some good things there with the offense with Caleb Williams. And then it kind of snowballed. So I have some reservations about Ben Johnson because of like they start the second half with a false start. You know, week one, they're blowing a 173 lead to a. first time star. So there are parts of me that are like, hmm, I don't know. Like great offensive coordinator doesn't mean great head coach. But I am

cautiously optimistic. It sounds like that's probably not quite where you're at with the reporting that you've done. Yeah, but you do hear that as well from people who know Ben Johnson like really closely. This is somebody who has kind of lived

in that laboratory, lived in that bubble where you're devising game plans. you're innovative and you're trying to figure out what that next trend is going to be. And when you're in that tunnel vision, it adds a different world than being a head coach. And you're dealing with 53 guys plus the practice squad in the locker room,

personalities and trying to juggle all of that and set a tone for your team. To his credit, I mean, we're on the outside and hope to learn more on the inside over time. I like his presence. It seems like he has set a tone. and somebody that is privy to kind of how he's been building this thing from the ground up said, it's been no BS. Like, he has made it clear that, like, there will be no coddling.

There will be no corners cut. And after they just gave up 52 points, you heard it this week. Like, he saw things on film that he did not like. If the ball was, when the ball was in certain players' hands, certain players weren't doing their job. And I think that players will be held accountable. And that's all the Thomas Bray. rounds of the world and some of those coaches on this last staff really wanted is accountability out of everybody. And there was one exception last year, Caleb Williams. I don't think there'll be

that exception this year. It could work. I'm with you on his talent. I mean, even these first two games, some of the arm angles and the throws that he could make on the run. It's, it's special. But like, is that sustainable? Is there consistency? That's the thing. Yeah. I think, you know what? I feel like this is veering down the, I think the Trevor Lawrence discourse is going to be very educational for because you already see it now. I think there's a divide between, hey, people are grinding film saying there aren't too many quarterbacks who can make this play. And then there's kind of an analytics community who is saying, okay, that's fine. Like, you can show me his five best plays, but let's look at it over the course of a larger picture and it's average to below

average. And then like you're saying, you've got the reporting. Well, quarterback's not just about can you throw it. Can you run it? It's like, what can you do? digest. Tom Brady had that, you know, great clip with Colin Coward last week. How much can you digest, process, make good decision. So it's kind of that between the highs versus the consistency, versus the real results versus what's the timeline? I mean, does it need to get better by Halloween? Do they need to be winning games by Thanksgiving, by Christmas? Certainly by the end of the season, if you're a Bears fan, you want to feel like, no, no, no, we are on the right track. This is our guy versus potentially going into year three, which is.

possible where you go into year three saying don't really know let's see he's at another full off season with ben johnson so yeah you wrote in this piece one fact in all of pro sports is true winning is a cure-all antibiotic frowns turn upside down and the air itself breathes easier which is i think a great way to end it because yeah you're i mean they win some games a month from now we're saying caleb williams is the story in the NFL he's made the leap again i think it's going to be more gradual. I don't know that that's going to be a storyline the first half of the season, but it's in play. So Chicago Bears are entertaining. Tyler Dunn, his reporting three-part. I mean, there's like, we could have done a week with Tyler Dunn with his reporting. I mean,

some of this stuff going on with the assistant coaches in that building, the CEO, there's an anecdote in there. I'm not going to give it all away, but about a day in the life story about the CEO on the website that had me just cackling. Some of the stuff I love about the NFL, the politics, the egos, the relationships, or lack thereof, it's all in there and it's very intriguing. So everyone, go check that out at GoLong Subsdack from Tyler Dun. Tyler, thank you so much for joining us. I'll be right back with The Hurry Up. All right, the Hurry Up is our closing segment where I give you a take on news in the NFL.

And the weirdest story right now in the league has to be Tom Brady's involvement with the Las Vegas Raiders. So this has been ongoing. We know he's a minority owner. It's not out of nowhere. There's been plenty of reporting that even in the offseason, he was involved in the coaching hire of Pete Carroll or the GM hire or Gino Smith, like personnel moves, all those things. But it was in our face on Monday night because Tom Brady was in the coaching booth

with the Raiders with a headset on. And they flashed to Tom Brady and the ESPN broadcast says, Tom Brady talks to Raiders offensive coordinator Chip Kelly two or three times per week to go over game planning stuff, which I don't think anybody knew that. I think they also had an anecdote in there about how the Raiders had a bad tackling performance. And he like messaged defensive coordinator Patrick Graham, like we got to get this fixed fast or something like that. So Pete Carroll gets asked about it later, totally downplays it. It sounded like pure damage control to me. But the only reason this is an issue is because Tom Brady is still a broadcaster for Fox,

which means he has access to players and coaches. So he can't go to other teams facilities like some other announcers do, but he can do production meetings remotely, meaning he can talk to players, coaches, virtually get whatever information he can get out of them, whatever he deems valuable. And other owners and personnel people obviously don't have that same type of access with other teams and players and coaches. So this has become a big story this week. I have two thoughts here.

One, like if you're a player or a coach in a production meeting with Tom Brady, you're not saying anything. I mean, that's on you. If you're giving him any information, you just do your best Bill Belichick impression, give one word answers. You don't have, the NFL is a league of paranoia. I mean, coaches, GMs,

they're worried about every little thing, stuff getting out, other teams getting an edge. Well, this might actually be. something worth worrying about. So I just can't imagine that players or coaches are going to say a lot to Tom Brady during those production meetings. I mean, this is a guy who has a rooting interest in another team and is a maniacal competitor.

You're not giving him any little morsel that can give the Raiders an edge. So that's thought number one. And then my second thought was, I don't understand why Tom Brady wants to be a broadcaster. Let me clarify that. I do understand 37 and a half million dollars per year. I understand a hard sum of money to just turn down. But if money weren't the issue, doesn't it seem pretty clear? He would just love to get back in a competitive environment and just be like totally hands on,

even more hands on with the Raiders running that team, trying to turn them into a Super Bowl contender, seven days a week, 24 hours a day. Like that he would love it feels like for that to be his full-time gig. So I just wonder if at some point, you know, after he put it, pocket some of that cash from Fox. If he just says, all right, I'm back in the league. I'm running the Raiders. Let's make that my full-time gig.

So that's something I got my eye on with Tom Brady. All right. Appreciate everyone listening. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing Kira Givens on social. Additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna, Ram Gopal. We'll be back tomorrow on the Ringar NFL show. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino

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