The Ringer NFL Show - How Lane Johnson’s Retirement Will Affect the Eagles and More Questions for Week 5

Episode Date: October 7, 2026

With Billy on jury duty, Tom and Sheil get together to share their reactions to the announcement of both Lane Johnson’s retirement and the trade of Cam Jurgens to the Ravens. Then they talk about what those moves will mean for the Eagles going forward. Next, they preview some of the big games on the Week 5 slate, including Bears-Packers, Raiders-Patriots, and 49ers-Seahawks, before diving into Sheil’s How Seriously Are We Taking This? segment. They end the pod with a preview of Bucs-Cowboys on ‘Thursday Night Football.’(00:00) Intro(2:00) Lane Johnson retires, and Cam Jurgens is traded to Ravens(15:55) A look ahead to some of the big Week 5 matchups(36:41) How Seriously Are We Taking This?(1:04:24) Preview of Bucs-Cowboys on ‘TNF’ Check out Tom Pelissero's newsletter 'The Sweep' on Substack! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines.Host: Tom PelisseroGuest: Sheil KapadiaProducer: Chris SuttonVideo Editor: Curtis SchultzEngineer: Oscar De La CruzProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody? It is the Ringer NFL show. Wednesday, October 7th. Tom Pelliserro here, Shio Capadia. We'll be joining us as always. Wild 24 hours or so in Philadelphia. Lane Johnson retired. Cam Juergens traded to the Ravens. The Eagles loading up on picks in 2028. What does it all mean both for this Eagles team now and in the future? We'll get into that ahead of a big game for them on Sunday against the Jaguars, a slew of really intriguing matchup. Seahawks 49ers is on the docket this weekend as well. Bears, Packers, and all that brings with it. We'll get in to those games. Shields also got some questions about how seriously we should take some of the surprises early in the season. Are we thinking of the Raiders as a potential

playoff team? Are we buying the Giants as the favorites in the NFC East at three and one? All that and lots more right after this. This is the Ringer NFL show presented by Fanduil. Make every NFL week more rewarding with Fandual Rewards Club. Just bet like you normally would and earn points on eligible settled bets win or lose. Keep collecting points level up and unlock bigger rewards. So keep an eye on your rewards club progress and see what you can. unlock. This is your most rewarding season ever with Fandul. 21 plus select states, 18 plus DC or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800-Gampler.

Call 1-88-7-8-9-77- or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Tom Pelliserro here with Shield Capadia and it bears mentioning Sheel, no Billy Gill on a Guillermo Miracle-lase. He is absent for very, very important reasons. You know, he said, you know, he got called in for jury duty. Do we believe that, Tom? That's the first question we have to answer here. Is it possible? Maybe he's annoyed at us.

He's mad at us. Did we say something during the last episode that offended him? Or do we believe that he's actually in there for jury duty today? I think he's there. I don't believe that he would intentionally miss this. But my main question is, if you're trying to, let's say, whichever side you're on in whatever case he's on, if you're trying to disqualify him,

do you just put up his quarterback rankings with Brock Purdy outside of the top 12? Do you just start there and work backwards? Do you look at the comments on Instagram on virtually every opinion he has? Like, where would you begin? Yeah, there was the Caleb Williams thing. Also, that got people quite upset. You know, my wife had to take. I don't know that this was on the record, but she said,

you know, I don't know that he's going to have a hard time. If he wanted to get out of it, now he might want to just perform his civic duty and get selected. That's entirely possible. but if he wanted to get out of it, she felt like maybe some of his answers to some of the questions, you know, might be a little out there that he wouldn't have a hard time, basically,

getting out of it if he wanted to get out of it. So I guess we'll see if he gets selected and we're not sure when he'll be back. It's kind of like Lamar Jackson, I guess we could say. So Billy, we hope he'd be back Friday. This could also be like a murder trial or something. And like, he's just gone for the rest of the season. We truly don't know when Billy will return.

But we wish him, the best of luck. And I have a feeling while I have a text before we finish recording the show saying, hey, I'm out.

I got out of this thing. The Eagles are probably going to lead this show regardless with the Lane Johnson retirement, which is, you know, these things happen occasionally,

but not a multi-time all-pro stalwart of the franchise, retiring essentially right before the game on Sunday in week four of the season. But then today, on top of it,

you get another really interesting move here, Shield. The Eagles agreeing to trade. Cam Juergens, who was a Pro Bowl guard, who had most recently been playing center. He goes to the Ravens, one of the seventh round pick for a fifth round pick in 2027 and a second round pick in 2028

to go with the Patriots first round pick. They already got out of the A.J. Brown trade. Sheal, you know that team as well as anyone? I will never buy that this is how he, tanking the season. He's just thinking about two years down the road. There's always counter moves when it comes to how he builds that team. But the totality of this, not just for the offensive line, but for the franchise, what to expect the rest of this season. What do you make of it all? Yeah, I'm with you. I think there was a lot of immediate reaction that they're punting

on the season. They've got all these injuries. They lost last week to the Rams. I just don't think that that's how they operate. And I don't think teams punt on the season when they're two and two. You know, you barely know what your team's going to be at that point. And I also think if you believe that's the case, that means you think Juergens was playing at a high level and now they're going to lose a lot of games because they don't have Cam Juergens. And the fact of the matter,

I'm not trying to be harsh, is just that he struggled this season. And they moved him over to left guard. And that was a tough spot to put him in. And he struggled over there at left guard. He's battled through a bunch of injuries. So I think they probably look at it and say, we're getting Landon Dickerson back at some point here off of IR.

We've got a young offensive. and Willie Lampkin who we could throw in there. It doesn't mean they're definitely going to be as good as Cam Juergens, but it's not the highest bar to clear. It's that Cam Jurgens earlier in his career. You wouldn't be able to clear that bar. It was a phenomenal player. He's unfortunately battled through a bunch of injuries.

So I think the Eagles looked at this and said, hey, we can get a second round pick for him. We've got other options here. And really, Tom, I think what this trade comes down to for both sides. Eagles are making the bet that Jurgens is not going to get back to being the player he was earlier in his career because of those injuries. The Ravens are looking at it saying he's still in his 20s. He's been a good player before.

We've had all kinds of injuries at center. We believe he can be that kind of player, so we'll give up draft capital. So whoever's right with that evaluation, NFL teams disagree all the time. Whoever's right with their evaluation of the player will win the trade. I think I garbled that off the top. Yes, he's a center who has moved to guard, not vice versa. If I did, in fact, get that backwards. And that's the spot they needed.

I mean, I was at the joint practice in Minnesota when Danny Pinter went down with his injury back in training camp, and then they lose two of their other centers in the same game. You know, they're now, they've been playing somebody out of position. There's a lot of moving parts. This is still, though, shield for a center.

You don't normally see second round picks involved in these types of trades, in part because a lot of times when you're drafting interior offensive linemen, like you're finding them in the fourth, fifth, sixth round. So clearly there's vision here with Baltimore and also, you know, there's not a lot of guys on the street who could solidify,

that position. So I certainly appreciate the aggressiveness by Eric DeCosta, not somebody who normally trades really high picks for anything. I also noticed, too, that this has become a little bit more of a trend. I don't recall a volume of trades recently, until recently, that had the higher of the picks in the following year. This goes all the way back to when the Jets did the Quinn and Williams trade, and they were initially looking for the Cowboys were offering a first round pick in this past year's draft. And they said, no, we want the first in 2027. We'll take the lower pick in 26.

It also happened with Joey Porter Jr. recently. Now it happens with Cam Juergens. It's a really interesting way of doing business. We all know the 2027 draft is supposed to be really good. But there's more teams that seem like they're willing to mortgage a little bit more in terms of assets a year out. the A.J. Brown trade being another one, as opposed to giving up the assets right now, even though you're getting a player who, you know, who knows what role, if any, they have on your team in a couple of years.

Yeah, it feels like it's those two factors that play. One is that anyone in the NFL who you'll listen to who knows the draft, it's like the 2027 draft. They just want this season to be over so that they can get to the 2027 draft because they're so excited about the talent pool in 2027. So I think teams are reluctant to give up those 2027 picks. But then I think it comes down to franchise, ability. Howie Roseman knows he is going to be running the Eagles in 2028. You want to trade me a 2028 first rounder, second rounder over a 2027 third rounder. Yeah, that sounds better to me because I'm going to be here. I'm going to be making those picks. I think sometimes you have other GMs who they're like, I'm kind of coaching for my job here. I need the pick right away so that I can make the pick and show the owner that I'm upgrading the roster in so that we can win games so that I still have this

job. So I actually think it's an edge that the teams with more stability with their decision makers have had for a long time and maybe they're just leaning into it a little bit more now. Howie Roseman talking with, I think the beat reporters right now in Philadelphia, said in quote, according to Zach Berman, we weren't looking to move cam. Obviously, the Ravens have been looking for a center, kind of told them wasn't anything we were looking to do. Over the last 24 hours, it got to the point where we felt like it could be a win-win for them. Obviously, again, the player has been a two-time Pro Bowl center. And obviously for us being able to get the picks we're able to get and use that money also signed players,

had a chance to watch Drew Kendall here, play center doing a nice job. I think for us when you talk about the two and the five, moving from the seventh to the fifth, we've had success in the fifth round, plus the money, plus Drew playing. We felt like we were getting four players for one and felt like us, for us, you know, with all these guys that we got coming up, a lot of the defense side of the ball that we want to resign and want to extend, felt like that was a good situation. Like this is part of the broader calculus that GMs are making. And again, we're seeing this increasingly where it's not just the pick you're getting, it's

the financial flexibility. Go back to the J.J. McCarthy trade that we had that was just last week. It feels like it was a month ago. It was I believe last Monday. And okay, it's a fifth round pick, but also you're offload in that case, $5 million for four plus in guaranteed money. It's more in the case of a Cam Juergens, but they feel like they get some financial flexibility out of it in addition to what you're actually getting in terms of the picks, which

is a very high one in 2028. This, though, brings me to the broader global question here, Shia, which I think that you're uniquely equipped to answer. Again, Lane Johnson retiring. I don't want to overlook the import of that, how good of a player he was, how important he was to, you know, that core four of the team that's now all gone. Fletcher Cox and Brandon Graham, Jason Kelsey, Lane Johnson,

one uniform players, won two Super Bowls with the franchise. Is this now a transition phase for the eager, and is this Eagles team? 2026. We'll talk about 2028 later, but 2026. Is this team good? I don't think, not right now. No, they're not a good football team right now. I mean, you look at their first four weeks of the season.

They need the last possession to beat the commanders, last possession to beat the Titans. They get blown out by the Bears and Case Keenham on national TV. And then last week, I guess you could look at that and say, come on, shield, they had the Rams on the ropes in the last seven minutes. I mean, they were out gained by more than 200 yards in that game. they made some plays on special teams, and they got a couple turnovers. That's why they were in the game.

It was not a down-to-down. Hey, they're right there with the Los Angeles Rams. So they've got a lot to figure out. There's no doubt about it. Earlier I said, but I think we both agreed, they're not punting on the season. But Tom, a month from now, we could be having a different conversation where we're looking at it. I mean, they've got some very interesting players, like defensive tackle.

Morrow Ojimo is a guy. Remember, Milton Williams got paid a couple years ago. That's a player who's probably going to set to. hit free agency who's going to get a big deal. If you're not in the mix, I could see teams being interested in a player like that. I mean, who knows with someone like Sequin Barclay at the deadline? So I think this is a big month for them. It's kind of a big pivot point in this era of Eagles football with Nick Siriani and

Jalen Hertz that's been so successful over the last four, five years, gotten to the Super Bowl twice, won a Super Bowl. But now you're looking at the roster and you're saying, all right, you're not as good on the offensive line, which has always been the foundation of the team, some of the other spots on offense. You traded AJ Brown. You've got some injuries on defense. You got rid of your offensive line coach in the offseason. There's just been so many moving parts since the end of last season that while I think right now, they would love to win games and be competitive and figure this thing out offensively and be in the mix in December and January. If it does go south, I don't think, you know,

Howie Roesman will hesitate to lean a little bit more towards the future. but then the current. I think we always also need to level set anytime we're talking about the Eagles because, I mean, you live there, Sheel. Everything is DefCon won. Every Eagles loss is fire everybody, blow it up. It's all terrible. And I think that we have to remember, Nick Siriani has the highest winning percentage of any active head coach who has been on the job at least five years. He's been to two Super Bowls. He's won one of them. And Jalen Hertz, during that playoff running in that Super Bowl, was a well-earned Super Bowl MVP. He was playing at that high of a level.

The biggest question to me, and we talked about this through the course of camp, was going to be, you're bringing in Sean Mannion, and that McVeigh, Shanahan, O'Connell, LaFleur, all those guys that Sean Mannion played for or coached with. It's that style of offense, and it doesn't look like a fit on paper for Jalen Hertz.

So one thing, if I'm sitting here and going, what is the silver lining in all of this, It's that Jalen Hertz, by the way, who didn't have Sequin last week and probably won't or he gets knocked out of the game, we'll probably miss a couple of weeks. Devante Smith didn't play last week. Probably going to be out at least another week here. Now the offensive line's a lot of moving parts. I haven't felt like Jalen Hertz looks bad.

I felt like on the whole, especially in the first two games, he makes a ton of plays. Even these last two weeks, I didn't sit there going Jalen Hertz is the reason they're losing games. Like that thing should keep getting better. Is he ever going to be fully comfortable, play a play? that style under center, play action, turn your back to the line of scriments. I don't know. And maybe they get to the end of this season and say

it just wasn't a fit. You know, we're going to, let's see if we might have the opportunity to get someone in who's a better fit for what we want to do. But for Jalen Hurts, again, this is a really, really good football player who's playing a little bit, fish out of water at this point schematically. And I feel like there's still growth opportunities there based on what I've seen for the first four weeks. It's a big question facing the team right now, is do they double down on this big offensive scheme change?

more under center, under center play action. Hey, let's target the middle of the field more. This summer, that was all the talk in Philadelphia. You go out to practice, that's what they were doing. And they've already sort of, it feels to me, been inching away from it. And the numbers would back it up, that they're still bottom five, bottom eight in under center. Their bottom five, bottom eight in under center play action. They're bottom five in targeting the middle of the field where they're trying to find this balance, I think, where, hey, some of this stuff we don't look totally comfortable with.

and we're losing some games. Do we mix in more of the old stuff now? Is there some hybrid that can work? Do we double down and say what we wanted to do in the off season? That's what we're doing. We got to give it some time. We got to be patient. That's something to keep an eye on just the shape of the offense here in the weeks ahead

because they're trying to figure things out while also trying to win games. And that might not be the easiest thing to do when, like you mentioned, the defense hasn't been as dominant as I think the team probably internally thought it was going to be going into the season. And now you just lost one of if not the best right tackles of the past decade permanently, barring some unforeseen change in Lane Johnson's plans here. And oh yeah, you go on the road to face a Jacksonville team that now it's been four weeks and this varies wildly.

I mean, I watched the discussion this morning on TV about is Josh Allen going to tank the bill's season? Like that's the point we are here. Everything, it's all recency bias. But the Jaguars right now are playing really good football. They had a tough time in Denver, but other than that, they've looked like a pretty dominant team to this point. And I don't think that it's an overreaction to say you at least have to consider them among the favorites in the AFC right now. Second most wins in the NFL since the start of last season.

I mean, that test of just like, you know, your friend who is a big football fan, if you ask them that question, I don't think most people would have gotten that. I was surprised when I just looked it up this morning. Second best point differential behind the Seahawks since the start of last. season. So stuff doesn't always translate from one season to the next, but given that, that was Liam Cohen's first year last season, and he's still there, and the quarterback and the coach are the same, and the defensive coordinator's the same. They've been on a really impressive run, and they pass the eye test. It doesn't feel fluky. They can win in different ways. The run game's

better this year. Trevor Lawrence is just peppering throws to the middle of the field. The scheme is very good. And defensively, it's like, it's not perfect, but I do like the sort of the person that they have. They play hard. They're going to be aggressive. They're not just sitting back. They seem to be able to make plays and create turnovers. And so there, I think, seven point favorites in this game against the Eagles, Tom. And I was looking back, 2021 is the last time the Eagles were an underdog by seven points or more. It includes the playoffs.

I mean, that puts into perspective what a run the Eagles had been on and kind of where they are right now when you just look at how they're being viewed against an upper echelon team. One of the fascinating things, too, about the Jaguars, is you mentioned the run game being better. That's after Travis, it was ATN at the time, now he's A-TAN in New Orleans, leaves in free agency. They make a run at J.K. Dobbins, and they think they got them, and then it kind of blows up and he doesn't end up going there.

They end up with, I don't think a lot of people could sit there. You might know basal-tutin, but you're not sitting there rattling off the Jaguars' depth chart, but they've got this philosophy and what Liam Cohen is doing offensively. It's the foundation of everything they do. I mean, do the Jaguars have a number one receiver? I don't know about that, but they got several guys who are really,

really good number twos between Jacobi Myers, Parker Washington, Brian Thomas Jr., who I'm sure once again be the subject of trade rumors. I have no expectation they're trading Brian Thomas Jr. He got a really good tight end in Brenton Strange. And you got a quarterback in Trevor Lawrence who was playing pretty well.

But point being, I don't know that you look at that team and you just go, God, they're so much more talented than everyone else. But they are really well coached. They seem to have an approach every week that tests you. And it's going to be a test too for a Vic Fangio defense that I don't think is played to the standard of most Vic defenses that we've seen over his time. Yeah, it's the run game. It's like you mentioned.

They spread the ball around. And they have like a few plays every game. Wait, which receiver was that? That was an unbelievable play. Oh, Parker Washington. This week. Oh, Jacob Myers. one of the tight ends.

It just feels like those guys come through over and over again and are really well coached. And I mean, their thing is just the middle of the field. It feels like that void between the linebackers and the safeties. They are exploiting that. If they see a weakness there, if Liam Cohen sees a weakness in that area of your defense, he's not messing around.

He'll just like, we will just target that area over and over again. Trevor Lawrence is thrown with the anticipation. And that's an issue for the Seagulls defense. They've had some issues at linebacker. they've had some issues at safety. And so, yeah, it could be a long day for them. They still do have the veteran defensive coordinator. We'll see if he has something cooked up here on Sunday morning.

But I think it's a tough matchup. It's a good matchup, I think, for Jacksonville. There's some other really good matchups on this slate, too. One that I think it's the most played rivalry in the NFL. Everyone knows the history. Everyone knows the recent history. And I also understand that people look at the Packers and just go, they're kind of in disarray right now.

probably lucky to be two and two, honestly, with the way they've played, their personnel challenges, all the injuries they've had. But this game bears at Packers feels like a really, really big game. Ben Johnson's already said Tyson Bayesian's going to start a quarterback, unless that is an elaborate ruse to throw Matt LaFleure off the set. I expect it's going to be Bejan being the starting quarterback. And this is the Packers with this team coming into their building. It's been a long time since the Bears have won several games in a row in this series. They have had the Packers number over the past couple of years. Green Bay is going to have to find a way to play at a higher level. And if you do,

if you beat the Bears, I don't do there's any reason you should just write off the Packers from being a playoff team once again. But what they've got to overcome Sheel is, you know, the offensive line, they signed three veterans last week, basically saying like our young guys aren't going to cut it. We've got to totally redo this thing. They lost the right tackle. They still don't have the running back. They lost one of their top receivers. And defensively, we're all waiting for Michael Parsons, who everyone thought would be back by week five or six. And then as I reported in the sweep on Substack over the weekend, I don't know that we see him until November. And that's not because of a setback. It's just because it's a long process.

You know, the ACL plus the meniscus, the Packers are really, really conservative. So it's like, you don't have, we don't know when Michael Parsons or Josh Jacobs is walking through that door. In Jacobs case, at all, if he's walking through that door. And so they have to find a way. And it's already shaping up to be one of those seasons where if the Packers managed to get to 9 and 8 or 10 and 7, I feel like Madel of Lle Flores should be a coach of the year candidate because on paper right now, like, it is a mess. Yeah, that Edger and Cooper entry last week is kind of a number. Yeah. I mean, that's a big deal.

He's one of the best defensive players. And they don't, I don't think they have a lot of great defensive players on the team, especially with Parsons out. So you're right that this is sort of a narrative shaping type game, it feels like. You know, there's a scenario. where the bears just go in there and smack them down and are just like, it's a different time now. You know, Ben Johnson is here.

I don't even know how far to take the hyperboleys with Ben Johnson right now. I mean, they had 34 first downs last week with Tyson Bajun as their quarterback. And, you know, it wasn't all, it's the run game. They, they just, that's the sign of a great coach, the ability to adjust when you don't have all your guys and put together a performance like that, days after doing it with Case Keenham. I mean, Ben Johnson has had the best coaching job in the NFL so far this season. And if they continue to do it, their defense, I think, has really overachieved also with Dennis Allen,

where it's not the most talented unit, but those guys are playing well too. If they just kind of crush the Packers, it's a new day in the NFC North. And the Packers fans are going to be like, oh, my gosh, what is our future? And the Bears fans are going to be over the moon. On the other hand, to your point, the Fleur, I mean, his pro football reference page is very, good. He wins a lot of games. He's won with different quarterbacks. He's won under different circumstances. If they can find a way to sort of piece it together, get a victory here. Again, they're one of those teams we just talked about. Stay in it, stay in it, stay in it. Oh,

Micah Parsons is back. Oh, our offensive line is playing a little bit better. I'll give him credit. Last week was now pretty against the Bucks. They had a turnover inside the five-yard line. They had another turnover on the Tampa side of the field, but they adjusted. I mean, love was getting rid of football. I forget what, 2.4 seconds or whatever it was. They're recognizing a weakness, trying to adjust for it, and it was enough to win the game. It wasn't enough to inspire Packers fans to say, we're back, baby. This is just like previous years, but it was enough to win the game. And I think that's got to be their mentality this weekend and going forward. To me, there's a big Jonathan Gannon game, too, because the Packers defense, up until last week, when they're facing an

under-after rookie quarterback in his first start, they just, they hadn't played well. Again, Micah is a big deal. You take the best player, the highest paid player of any defense in the league. It's going to have a trickle-down effect. That's just the way that it works. Last week, they seemed to put it together a little bit more. But now you got Ben Johnson coming into town, who not only takes this match up very personally, but is also one of the most brilliant coaches in the NFL. He's had a different starting quarterback three weeks in a row. And if anything, it's looked like with Case Keenham and Tyson-Bajun, he's opened up the playbook because he knows he doesn't have guys who can go. And when the, you know, the first couple of reasons aren't there goes and makes magic happen.

That's definitely not Case Keenham. It's really not Tyson-Bage, and although he's a really, really good quarterback, and I wouldn't be surprised to be starting somewhere in 2027, depending exactly how things play out, whether the bears would move them and all those different things. But Ben is going to come in with a plan to attack whatever weaknesses he sees on film. Like, they're going to have their hands full. I don't think you can go in saying, yeah, we'll beat them 17 to 14 again. I know that happened against the Vikings in the rain a couple of weeks ago,

and they were able to just play that grinded out defensive game. But it's a great chess match, I think, especially Ben going up against Gannon. And let's see, without Cooper, as you mentioned, without Parsons, you know, exactly what Green Bay has in store. We've also got Raiders at Patriots this week, which it's a rematch of the weirdest game of the 2025 season. I know we've talked about it. I was there. Week one, Raiders beat the Patriots in New England. Mike Fairbill's first game is coached, and everyone goes, what's going on?

Peak Carols, reviving the race. Raiders lost basically every game after that. Patriots basically won every game after that. It was a complete flip after week one. Now you got a Raiders team that even in losing last week, Sheel looked pretty good. And they go up against a Patriots team that I really going to talk Raiders later. But the Patriots, what you saw last week? I don't think that was a fluke. I think that they really kind of found themselves and they, Mike Brable has been good at this through his career, take when all the noise is coming together and be able to refocus. your team on what actually matters. Yeah, Vrable and Drake May hate each other. May's got the yips and shouldn't have traded Kashan booty. It's like, all right, what do you say after the game? We don't have to take any more shit. Like, that's basically what it is, was it was a no more shit-taking game for that. And now, all right, don't have the letdown. Now, come and take care of business at home where your fans will be, finally, you'd think a little less on edge than they've been, but this is not a not a cakewalk type of game by any stretch. It's like we look at the schedule before the season or even we do it now. We're like, oh, well, they're next three games.

games are this and it's just a reminder how much things change because I don't know that there's a big difference between these two teams and how they're playing right now. I mean, you mentioned it. Patriots, you have the bounce back game last week, but that's one game. And let's be honest, that came down to a play at the end. Hifton Chisholm making that play or Josh Allen not making a play at the end. I mean, if one of those things goes differently, we're having a different conversation. We're saying, okay, Patriots found some stuff. They played well. Look at the yardage. Look at the offense. but they're still one of the biggest disappointments in the NFL. So it's such a reminder of how thin that line is between how we kind of view these teams.

So yeah, I think the Patriots do need to come back. They need to make sure take care of business here. Because if they have a letdown here and May doesn't play well, we go back to the starting line of where we were a week ago or two weeks ago with this Patriots team. So they got to string together a couple wins. But yeah, that's not one that, you know, two weeks ago before the season, we would have circled Patriots Raiders week by. That's going to be fun.

Now it looks like one of the more fun matchups on the slate this weekend. Bill's Ram's. We've got plenty of time to talk about that because that's not until Monday night. But game of the week, in my mind, 49ers at Seahawks. It's not close. You talk to people within the league. A lot of people think the 49ers are the best team they've seen. It's just the question of, frankly, the durability of a team that's got the oldest roster in the NFL.

Everyone looks younger. George Kittle looks younger. Debo Samuel looks. younger, like this is what you're hoping to see, especially on the offensive side. I mean, this could be. There's other good teams. Obviously, the Rams have to be in that conversation. Whoever comes out of the NC North has to be in that conversation.

But if you had a 49er Seahawks, NECHAX championship game, I don't think anybody would be surprised. And it feels like, I mean, this is one of those clashes. You go back to, you know, the first Seahawks, you know, mini dynasty. Let's call it that. They won the NEC2 years in a row. But it was always those two teams there at the end. and you might be getting a little preview of what you're seeing in January this weekend. And you know, Kyle Shanahan's looking at that playoff game last year,

being like, come on, I didn't have anybody in that game. Everybody could praise Mike McDonald and the Seahawks won the Super Bowl. But if we were healthy, I mean, how often, as he probably said in his career, if we were healthy at the right time, he would already have a ring. He might have multiple rings. So, you know, I mentioned Ben Johnson, I think, has probably done the best coaching job this year. Kyle Shanahan's right there. I mean, that team, I was very concerned.

with the way their summer went and the injuries and the age on the roster. And they just look legit every single week. I mean, they've beaten the Broncos. They've beaten the Rams. Like they've beaten good teams. This hasn't been a cakewalk schedule so far. So he's done a terrific job. And I'm sure he wants a shot at the Seahawks at McDonald.

Now that he's got his guys, they still have injuries, but he's got his main guys. I think it's a more fair fight this weekend. Seahawks defense, 49ers offense, peak of their power. hours in a way, that's going to be a lot of fun. This is also, you know, we're basically halfway to the trade deadline. Trade deadline is November 10th. Nobody's at like the fire sale point. We had two trades last week, but there were unique circumstances.

J.J. McCarthy, the Giants badly needed a quarterback. That's the guy they wanted. Minnesota was ready to move on. And Joey Porter Jr. was making abundantly clear. He had no intention of actually playing for the Steelers and it was going to be a mess. So those happened. But like the real wave of the trade shield. start to come together after this weekend.

You might already have some conversations going on. I know there have been calls this week, mainly because of injuries, but people are still feeling it out. Nobody wants to punt on their season after four games. But if you're 0 and 4, and that becomes 0 and 5, if you're 1 in 3 and that becomes 1 in 4,

this is kind of the tipping point. Teams like San Francisco that have been hit, I mean, at a bunch of different positions, but they're surely looking and going, all right, we've probably got one move we can make before the deadline. Like, what are we working with here? How badly do we need, let's say, a wide receiver before the deadline?

Because all of a sudden, again, those teams that are going to go into cell mode, they're having hard conversations in the next few weeks. And a bunch of those teams, by the way, that are 0 and 4 right now, all have early buys. Like the Texans have it in week 8, the chargers have it in week 7. Like, those are the teams you're probably looking at. And it's like, all right, they're going to get to those points and we're going to be ready to move. These games are extraordinarily important shield in terms of, of everybody getting a gauge on where they are.

Your team, as well as the teams you're trading with, maybe figuring out, we got to start thinking about next season. Nobody's quite there yet. Nobody's burning the building down yet. But, I mean, even starting tomorrow night, where the bucks have the potential falling to 0 and 5 as they lose to the Cowboys,

there's a recalibration. Once you take a fifth loss, because at that point, you almost need to run the table to get in. And if you figure you're not going to, well, now let's get aggressive and have the best things in place that we can for next season. we all have our processes.

I'm sure yours is very intriguing, actually. I would love to know the ebbs and flows of your season, like the different checkpoints. You know, it's like, oh, all right, it's week nine. You know, maybe it's these two teams that suck. I don't need to catch up on what they did on the condensed games. One of a, you know, there's the tankathon. All right, when am I actually going to look at the draft order and be like,

oh, this is what it actually looks like. One of them for me is going to over the cap, looking at the teams that are winless, clicking on the free agency tab and being and saying, could they move one of these guys? I did that this morning, Tom. I did it with the box. I was looking at the box going,

huh, if they go 0 and 5 on Thursday night, they lose to Dallas, they're big underdogs, who are the guys on this roster that could get moved? I'm close to doing it with the Chargers. Maybe I'll give them one more week here. But yes, we have a bunch. Chargers have, I mean,

Khalil Mack is the obvious one. But like Denzel Perryman, you know, his contract is up. at the end of the regular season. There's a bunch of named Bud Dupree, a bunch of name veterans. And also even, I mean, some young guys, like Tui Tuli Poloto.

Like, I don't think that's the type of guy you'd want to trade, but they were nowhere on a contract extension with them. You'd probably get, I mean, that's a top shelf pass rush. Again, I think the value is probably better if you play it out and maybe franchise tagging. But who knows, these are the players

that you're going to get calls on. But if you win a game this weekend, you're convincing yourself, hey, one and four, even the bucks. Think about this. If the bucks lose that game, to the Cowboys. We can talk more about that game later. But if they lose to the Cowboys on Thursday night, they're 0 and 5.

And everyone's going to go, is Todd Bulls going to get fired? What kind of big changes? Sell everybody. They haven't played a division game yet. And they are still right now only two games back of the division lead. They literally can make up the two games against every team in their division. I think week seven, they play the Panthers. I think that that's the first division game they have on the slate.

So you haven't even played your own division, which right now nobody exactly is running away with, even though the Panthers and the Falcons are coming off of good performances. That's why it's so hard, man. Nobody wants to go sell mode really early in the season. You know, even in Major League Baseball, I know you cover that closely. Like, you kind of get to July before the full-on, let's sell everybody in the NFL. You only have so many games. I think we're a few weeks away from like a lot of deals actually happening,

but those conversations absolutely ramp up soon. I think it's the playoff expansion in all this sports where it's easier to convince yourself that you can stay in it. We sneak in, we get hot, Baker Mayfield gets healthy, we're still a talented roster. So I understand it. You work all season for the games

and for the season. And so it's hard to play. Like, you know, for me, it's easy to be like, oh, they suck. They're 0.4. They should just trade everybody and get rid of all these guys,

get draft picks. If you're in the building and this is your livelihood, you kind of want to hang in until you can't, and then you figure out, all right, let's have a realistic look at where we're at.

And then, as you know, there's all the other interpersonal dynamics of a, does a GM want to save their job? Does a coach want to save their job? Do they have stability? Do they have ownership support where they can say, okay, we can trade these guys. And even if we lose more games, the second half of the season, it's okay because we have a long-term vision. So now all those things come into play. Max Crosby last year, remember, he wants to play. They don't want him to play. So now there's player relationship stuff that you're trying to deal with. So it gets very interesting for these teams as the losses accumulate and they

try to have a realistic view of how to eventually get their team to be a winner. We're not exactly there, but we're probably like a week or two away from a lot of those conversations. Not to mention there are some of those teams right now that we thought would probably be better or they thought they would be better. And you have to ask yourself, this is not the NBA where you plug in one player and it can change your season or even in baseball, you plug in the number one starter. And it's like, all right, we just cleaned up one out every five games. The NFL, there's teams that have to ask, like, are we close enough to really go for it or do we just kind of ride this out and see where we are? I can think of a bunch of

teams that fall in that category. There's also some teams that have been pleasantly surprising so far this season. The Raiders are 3 in 1. The Giants are 3 in 1. The Rams who I think another team that everyone wants to bury on a weekly basis kind of look like themselves down the stretch. How seriously are we taking all these teams? Shills got thoughts on those and more coming up right after this. The Ringer NFL show is. brought to you by Fandul. It's your most rewarding season ever only on Fandul. How rewarding are we talking? More rewarding than an 18-point comeback. Maybe even more rewarding than an O-L lineman catching a touchdown. And this NFL season, that feeling doesn't stop on the field. Look out for the all-new Fandul

Rewards Club. Exclusive offers, surprises, and more. So every week, check the Fandul app to see what's waiting for you. Make this your most rewarding season ever with Fandul. Download the app to get started, fan duel, play your game. 21 plus select states or 18 plus DC or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800-800-8-8-9-7-77, or visit ccpg.g.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, it's the Wednesday before the Thursday that kicks off week five. I got there. That took me a second there on the calendar. Shield. We've got, we're at the effective quarter pole. They ruined that by putting in the 17th game, so it's not exact anymore.

but let's just call it the quarter pull. Who are some people or some teams on your mind that you're starting to think more seriously about, if at all? Yeah, this is, you know, we're trying to fill in for Billy. Not an easy guy to replace here, you know, with his creativity for these Wednesday segments, Tom. But we're going to call it's not going to be as quirky. We could have sent us one, by the way, from jury,

like before he went in, he could have given us an idea, some pre-prep questions. But I put it on you because that's generally what I do on the show, lean on shield. That's a good point. actually. Yeah, we might have to talk to him about that. So we're calling this one, how seriously are we taking this? So this is a chance just to maybe talk about some topics, some teams that we haven't discussed in depth this week and then get to some other things

on my mind. So the first one, how seriously, Tom, are we taking the Las Vegas Raiders as a playoff team? You know, there are teams that get off to hot stars that you weren't expecting. And they're cute little stories in September and October, but it's like, give me a break. We're not actually expecting this team to be playing in January, are we? So are the Raiders that kind of team or are they more than that? You know, they go toe to toe with the Chiefs last week. It's really a special team's fumble and then two huge plays by the Chiefs offense. But I mean, I don't think anyone watched that game and we're like the Raiders are overmatched by this Chief's team.

So they play well last week. They're three and one. We mentioned it. They go to New England this week. I'm telling you, I don't know that I see a huge difference between these. these two teams. I think these are two evenly matched teams. Can they go in there? And everyone's saying the Patriots

are back. They got their mojo back last week. But we're going to go in there and we're going to punch them in the mouth. And we're going to have this creative, creative offensive scheming with creating explosive plays that Kubiak's done every week this season. And now all of a sudden we're four and one and you have no choice

but to take us seriously. So where are you on that kind of, you know, which end of the spectrum are you on with this Raiders team at three and one? As long as Kirk Cousins continues to play at the level he is, which is a Pro Bowl level, make no mistake about it. It's not just numbers. He's not just amassing stats.

He's really playing that well at quarterback. The Raiders can beat anybody in the NFL. They hung with the Chiefs last week. They obviously got off to the 3-0 start, fell short in that game. This is really now the stretch of schedule that we all looked at and said, okay, if the Raiders are going to be for real, they got to get through this gauntlet. Started last week at home against the Chiefs. then they are at New England on Sunday.

They are home against the bills, home against the Rams. All right, that's four teams that you would have all put in the conversation before the season. Those might have been the four teams with the best Super Bowl winning odds going into the season and you're facing them four in a row. If you can get out of that stretch two and two, I don't think there's any reason that you would say the Raiders can't continue to be competitive. Now, they're still really young in some spots. You know, they've had an injury at the wide receiver position,

who's going to kind of step up, you know, at that position. Brock Bowers being back is a massive deal. They didn't really run it effectively last week with Ashton Genty, but I think that's probably a little bit more of an anomaly. And defensively, they spent so much money and they accidentally got back one of the best pass rushers in the NFL when the trade got vetoed. Like, they're built on defense to win right now.

Offensively, you're not quite there, but you have a quarterback who is able to keep you because he knows that offense so well because he can still play at that level. You look at some of the throws he's had this season. Like Kirk is, I know that Kirk always has like that reputation of like, all right, he's always, you know, Mr. 8 and 8 and he masses of stats. He gets paid tons of money, but like how good is he actually? He's playing that well this season.

If he continues to do that, and again, this is not an easy game. I've looked at the weather report in New England. It's been unseasonably warm here in the Midwest. I think it has been out in the northeast as well. Maybe you skip over what could be normally a 45 degrees of rain day in New England. England to Sheel. But I would say, I don't think there's any reason you sit there and say the Raiders can't be that good. And they're going to win the Super Bowl? I don't know about that, but can they be a playoff team? I mean, I think we saw them play a potential playoff team last week and hold their own.

I take them seriously as a wildcar team. I'm with you. I think they can stay in the mix. Let's see how competitive they are over these next three games. I mean, you're right about cousins. It's sort of, it almost feels like it's an underrated story where you consider how we were talking about Kirk Cousins at the end. of last season, anybody could have had Kirk Cousins. You know, you look at some of these teams now and it's like, huh, I wonder if they would have, if they would like a redo of that. And he's played really well, like you said, he knows the system like the back of his

hand. That's what really seems to stand out when you're watching that game is the certainty there. The run game, like you said, has not gotten to where they probably want it to be so far. That Crosby trade is interesting, Tom. If you gave both teams the opportunity for a redo right now, I almost think like the Ravens would want the redo and pass Max Crosby and say we'll give up those picks because we kind of would love to have that pass rush right now. And the Raiders might say, we don't want to redo. We like how this played out. He's back with the Raiders. We feel like we're competing for a

playoffs. But I was thinking about that, that maybe DeCosta and the Ravens are like, huh, what if we would have just passed him on the physical and the knee would have been fine? We might be in better shape right now. Well, the calculus also wasn't just, can Max play now? It was can Max play in two, three years and we're giving up multiple first round picks. Again, it doesn't help the Trey Hendrickson shattered his finger in the first or second game and then had to have surgery. And now he's out. We'll see if he ends up being back this week.

But certainly, I mean, Max has made an impact. And he walked back in the door of a vastly improved Raiders defense to the Cousins point. I actually wrote about this over the weekend. The only other team that even really called on Kirk Cousins as a starter was the Cardinals. They were about to be in that off-season long. battle with Jacoby Brissette over his contract. And Michael Floor, similar type of an offense. So Kirk could have walked in there. Very similar to Clint Kubiak. But Clint was the one who was all over Kirk to get him to Las Vegas, didn't want to have to play Rendoza immediately. You know, they had to work

out the money because Kirk wasn't going to play for free. They end up doing a, let's just call it, very creative structure where the Falcons are paying most of the money this year and the Raiders are paying a $10 million bonus next year. I still would not take off the table. And I know that I get killed by Raiders fans every time I say it. I still think there's a scenario out there, Sheel, where some quarterback gets hurt late October, early November, and somebody throws a big pick at the Raiders, and they just have to seriously think about it. If they're in the playoff chase and they're on target to, you know, go to the playoffs, it's going to be hard. Let's see you get offered like a second round pick for Kirk Cousins,

who's on essentially a rental deal. You do have this, you know, kind of right in the contract is the way they structured it where they have a limited window to trade them or cut him or keep him, pick up his $22-year $8 million option in March. But like if you got offered a big pick now, it's not the wildest thing in the world for a 38-year-old quarterback who's probably not your starter next season to say we'd consider it. But right now, Kirk's planned at a really, really, really high level and good for him. He's also on his 11th straight year of fully guaranteed money, which is always my favorite

staff. He's Mr. Fully guaranteed. Him and Dak Prescott. Yeah, this era of if you really want to just maximize your value and, you know, those are the blueprints for how to do it. I was just looking at all the teams and being like, is there a team that there's a great what-if for, I feel like the Colts might be the closest if they were like, we don't want to give Daniel Jones all that money coming off the injury.

We can get Kirk Cousins. He's playing inside. He's got it, you know, with a good offensive coach and a good infrastructure around him. That's one that maybe would have been a little bit interesting there. But it's not just cousins, to your point. I mean, their defense is probably the part of the team that's really surprised me. They're a much more well-rounded team so far than I thought they were going to be. You look at that defensive depth chart.

It's not even close to the most talented defense in the league. In fact, probably before the season, I would have told you it's one of the five least talented defenses in the NFL. But the money they paid those guys in free agency, you never know how that's going to work out. It's worked out. Nacobie Dean's been terrific. You get Crosby back. And they figured it out. I mean, good job.

Their defensive coordinator, Rob Leonard, they're feisty. They try stuff. They get burned by the blitz last week. But I'm like, you know what? That's going to happen. You're not, you're kind of the inferior team on paper here. It's Patrick Mahomes on the other side. Sometimes you've got to try stuff.

It's not always going to work out. But I didn't have a problem with it. They're going for the win in that spot. So yeah, I like the makeup of the team. That cousin's trade thing, man, that's interesting. Because I feel like if you're in the playoff mix, Unless it's something crazy, which I think, you know, I don't know that it's going to get to that level. I just feel like you're, give your fans a season where you make the playoffs and you feel good about it.

You might regret it afterwards and be like, oh, we could have really used that second round pick. But for that fan base and that, you know, that organization specifically, I feel like you don't throw away a chance. And maybe it's not throwing away a chance. Maybe they're like Mendoza's looks good. But that would just almost make me a little nervous if they, made a move like that? It would have to be because you feel like Fernando is ready to play at a similar level. He's benefited

a lot during practice. He mirrors all of Kirk's reps on the side. He spends extra time in the meeting rooms with Mike Sullivan, the quarterback's coach, Andrew Niko, the OC. He gets all kinds of different projects and things that they want him to work on. So like they're trying to accelerate it. Let's be honest.

Everyone's jobs in Las Vegas. Ultimately, they don't depend on do you make the playoffs, do you win a playoff game this year with Kirk? It's, does Fernando get you where you want to go? That's what everything is going to be tied to here. If they don't feel like it's the right time, then, of course, you don't trade Kirk and put Fernando in there before he's ready. But two months into the season, he's been taking all the scout team reps.

He's been getting the extra work if you feel like we can do it. And again, this is all contingent. I'm not saying they want to trade Kirk Cousins. And far from it. But if you got offered a big pit for a guy who probably isn't going to be there next year and is 38 years old, you have to consider anything that makes your team better, not just now, but in the big picture. Let's see. Let's see where they are. After this gauntlet next three weeks here, they're

0 and one in the gauntlet, but they've been competitive. You get through that two and two, and you're five and two approaching the midpoint of the season. I don't think you're in the, you know, in the mood. Certainly the owner, Mark Davis is not going to be in the mood to go and trade your starting quarterback. But that also means Kirk Cousins is playing at a really high level. Somebody gets hurt. Who knows? I like this. We're setting up for maybe an interesting trade. You know, I like the trade deadline. I like all the maneuverings and the transactions as much is the actual games. Maybe we'll get some juice in the next few weeks next month. You live through. I can remember if you were in Philly the year that they traded Sam Bradford

at the end of training camp because Teddy Bridgewater blew out his knee on like the last day of camp. And nobody was sitting there thinking Carson Wentz is going to be the starting quarterback. Except internally they're like Carson looks really good. And we just got off from things like a first and a fourth for Sam Bradford. It was like, all right, Carson's the week one starter. Like circumstances dictate a lot. We don't want anybody to get hurt. But it happens. It's already happening this season. Let's find out. It's going to be an interesting month or so ahead.

We'll say, all right, next one here for you. How seriously are we taking the New York Giants as potential NFCE champs? I don't know if you look at it. Who looks at the standings this early? All right. I look this morning. I did. And it's, you wouldn't think it.

I think if you walked up to your average football fan on the street and said, hey, who's alone in first place in the NFCEs? They're not getting to the Giants. They're not guessing that because every headline's been Jackson Darts hurt Brian Burns is hurt You know there's going to be a lot of questions About how long you stick with James Winston

And my answer would be you stick with them As long as you win I do think you take this seriously That they can be the division chance Because right now Dallas Still trying to figure out their defense They took the big swing on Joey Porter Jr. We'll see if that stabilizes some things

You got a bright young coordinator and Christian Parker Who's probably growing into the job a little bit here. You have the Eagles who just, you know, last week, obviously the last two games hasn't been great and blowing the lead against the Rams. I still think the Eagles are a really tough team. And I'm not counting out the commanders. That's a big game. This weekend, Jaden Daniels should be back, barring complications in practice. This is Washington's chance to say a float in the NFC East in the early going here. It's a home game for them. And James, like, we all know what the James Winston experience is. It's a roller coaster.

He's going to make some plays. He's also going to give you a chance to make some plays. That defense has been pretty salty. Durante Jones learned a lot from Brian Flores in Minnesota. I've been impressed with the young coordinators. It's a big game for them. Giants win that and they go to four and one. I think you definitely have to start saying you're taking it seriously,

even though from week to week you may not 100% know how confident they are in their QV1. I can't get there yet with the Giants. I mean, you watch that game against the card. You mentioned it. I mean, James, he was taking. more chances. So it was different than the previous weeks, but I can't imagine that that guy's going to quarterback a division winner. All due respect, this year. It's going to be a roller coaster, but there's going to be more downs than ups. And I feel like the rest of the roster isn't quite

in position where you can make up for that. Now, here's where I will give them credit is John Harbaugh before the season. You know, he did the team meeting and everyone's making fun of him that that got clipped and we're wondering, well, the Ravens feel, you know, Ravens fans, any, Ravens fan you talk to, they're like, we're good with this guy going. We need a new start here with a new coach. I think he's established that level of competence that they were looking for. When you have a backup quarterback in and you're winning games, I just don't think that happens with their previous regimes and their previous infrastructure on that coaching staff. So I don't think it's perfect. I think there are little morsels that you like.

Arvel Reese, the rookie looks like he's a player. Instant impact. Instant impact for Arvill Reese. even a guy like Deontay Banks. These stories are always good sort of indicators about a coaching staff where it's like he's kind of buried. It looks like that wasn't a good pick. He's the quarterback. He was a first round pick in 2023.

He played fewer than 50% of the snaps last year. You think, all right, I'll play out his rookie contract. He'll go somewhere else. They throw him in the lineup. And he had a big interception at the end of that game. He had some other good plays. It wasn't perfect. He gave up a touchdown.

But like they're getting something out of him that wasn't there previously. I think that's a good sign of the coaching staff as well. So yeah, this is sort of a weird game in Washington. They're three and a half point underdogs, even though they're three and one on this season. It's NFC East. It's probably going to be ugly. It's going to be grimy.

You look at some of the talent. You're like, all right, this isn't a marquee matchup in week five. But if they're four and one, then we got to continue talking about them if they can win that game in Washington. There's no doubt. And if the commanders, they're one of those teams, if they fall to one and four, I anticipate that they continue to compete. They're not going to blow it up immediately, but just have to start to look at some of the veteran players on their roster

because you're going to get calls. You're going to get calls about Stefan Diggs, who looks excellent in the early portion of the season. Jaden Daniels, I keep saying it, second half of the first game, first half of the second game until he got hurt, looked like Jaden Daniels again. So if you want to buy into the optimism,

David Blow with multiple backup quarterbacks, it seems like it's called really good games. Again, Durante Jones, what he's doing defensively, all those different walk everybody up to the line. Don't let them know where the blitz is coming from. It's been pretty effective for them. I'm not counting them out. The commanders from my team before the season,

I said could be the one no one's talking about that I thought could make noise. I still feel that way. They got a lot of injuries. They're banged up at a bunch of spots. You look at their offense right now. It started when Tunsel went down before the season. They've got their challenges.

But again, get this win. The whole division then is clumped at that point, right? No one's going to be better than three and two. no one's going to be worse than two and three. Let's see how it shakes. It's a sneaky, fun game in week five where I feel like we've got a bunch of them. I was just looking at that. You're right.

If the commanders win that game, you're right. Everybody's three and two or two and three. After five games, is the NFC East, the new NFC South this year? Maybe that's a take on firing off next week. NFC South has looked better over the last week or two than the NFC East. Falcons might be legit, Panther. So we'll see there. Okay, my next one for you.

I got two more for you, Tom. The next one is, how seriously are we taking this Brock Purdy as an MVP candidate? You know, the narratives around Purdy since he first started playing for the Niners. It was, well, it's Kyle Shanahan.

Anyone can go in there and play well. And then it happened year after year, after year, and there are guys injured. And it seems like Purdy's still playing well. And it's like, well, wait a minute. We maybe should give the quarterback a little bit more credit. They beat the Broncos last week, which I thought was a very interesting game in that. The first half, it felt like Shanahan was more like, we're not going to lose the game.

We don't need, we're not going to win the game in the first half. Let's not lose the game. Broncos suffer some injuries at corner. Shanahan starts cooking like you mentioned earlier, George Kittle. That felt more like a Shanahan win than a Purdy win to me. But the first three weeks, I would have said Purdy's playing as well as any quarterback in the NFL. So I was looking at the odds this morning. Josh Allen, first in MVP odds, Brock Purdy number two,

and he's got this big game against Seattle coming up this weekend where they've got more of their guys than they had in the playoffs last year. I feel like if Purdy plays well in this game and the 49ers beat the Cops, this is going to be a conversation a lot of people are having next week. Brock, when healthy, is the most efficient quarterback in NFL history. And that is a statistical fact. If he had enough qualifying starts, he would be number one by far in passerating. He leads the NFL this season in passerating.

And I know that that's not a complete quarterback statistic because of the value that Josh Allen brings in terms of being a runner. Brock can make things happen with his legs when he needs to as well. And it's not everything within the structure of the Shanahan system, although he's very, very good at that. It's also those things he can make happen outside of structure. The only reason that Brock Purdy shouldn't be in the MVP race this season is if he gets hurt. He's gotten hurt basically every season of his career and he's missed time.

If he doesn't do that, if he plays all 17 games, it finishes with a 126 passer rating, I find it hard to believe that he's not right there with those other guys. And then you get into the subjectivity of the voting. And what are we actually basing it on? When I had a vote for those awards, I would basically pull people in the league and let them cast the vote for me because I ultimately don't know what I'm looking at.

They do. there's other people who just vote based on their gut or vote based on, you know, whatever highlight reel they saw. And everyone gets to do that. I don't think there's any, you know, real ground rules that the AP has other than, you know, you can't vote for, like, non-football stuff. Like you don't like a guy or his politics or whatever. You can't vote against him for that. Beyond that, you can vote for whoever you want. You know, and then we would see, you know, if Josh Allen finishes the season like Josh Allen and not like, you know, some of the bumps we've seen over the last two weeks, you know, he's probably just going to get if you're on the fan.

you mean Josh Allen because he's Josh Allen. But Brock, what he does, it's unmatched to the entire NFL. His only issue he's had in his career is health. So far this season, he is healthy. I got a chance to talk with him in Australia before they played the Rams in week one. He's just, he's very confident. He's very comfortable in his skin. He's going back a little bit to just be very intentional about being coachable

and getting some things maybe grounded back that might have gotten away from him the past couple of years. He looks awesome so far. So I absolutely have taken. taking seriously the idea of him as an MVP candidate. It's been a pretty predictable award over the years. To your point, you know, people vote on different things. But it usually, last year was an exception,

but usually it's just like look at the one in the two seat in each conference and who's the best quarterback out of those four teams. I mean, you know, that's really what it has come down to most of the time over the last 10, 20 years here. They're one of three undefeated teams here. And if they win the NFC West, no one's going to look at that and go, they won a bad division. It's going to be like, whoa, they beat out two of the best teams in the entire NFL to win that division.

And the numbers are just going to be there for Purdy. I mean, they're there every single year. It's actually really funny. Anytime I do some type of search and I go deep on the nerd stats, as you know, and I'm looking last 10 years and it's like, Purdy, Purdy, Purdy, Purdy, Perty, huh? Aaron Rogers' MVP season, Purdy. And you just look at Bahams, you know, and what was that? 2019.

Purdy. It's like these are the seasons just in terms of efficiency, even just EPA last 10 years. You know, his EPA through the first four weeks of the season is the highest of any quarterback in the last 10 seasons. Yeah. It's crazy. You can't look anything out without saying Brock Purdy's name.

So statistically, analytically, I think he passes the eye test for sure. I think he's just gotten better. Like you said, he's gotten more comfortable. So a big spot for him against the Seahawks. That's going to be really interesting to see how Shanahan approaches. and how well Purdy's able to play against that Seahawks defense. All right. I got one last one for you here, Tom.

All right. Bring it. How seriously are we taking the idea that the Rams are now the team we expected them to be? We've had a roller coaster. You in Australia, McVeigh, make it fun of himself for the travel plans, the Garrett injury, the Puka Nakuwa injury, last week, wild game against the Eagles. They're two and two, yet I think there's a case that you look at. it up and are like, of course they're the best team in the NFL. Or if you're a hater, you could look

it up and go, give me a break. If they don't get like a fourth and two stop in that game against the Eagles last week, they're one and three. And their team we're talking about panicking about. So where are you on that range with this Rams team that came into the season with so much hype? It's still up and down for me. I'm not taking seriously that the Rams are what the general public thought, where they were by far the best odds to win the Super Bowl. Everyone was like, well, You know, they basically load it up. It's like the Dodgers and, you know, there's why even, you know, not why I have a season, but basically like there's so much better and all these things.

Like they're not there right now. Like the best teams in the NFL dominate inferior opponents. The Rams did dominate the Giants, albeit in a game where Jackson Dart went down and like the whole soul of the Giants was crushed. And James Winston looked like he had just learned to throw football that day. they played a close game against the Broncos and lost. They played a close game against the Eagles and loss. And they got beat pretty soundly,

especially in the second half against the 49ers in week one. In order to say the Rams are what we thought they would be, and again, I'm using the Royal Wee, not the two of us. They got to come out and beat up on a good team. They got to get like a strong start-to-finish win against the bills, for instance, on Monday night. After that, the Cardinals, like you should blow out the Cardinals. You should win at Vegas.

You should beat up on the charges. You should beat up, frankly, on the commanders and the Cardinals again. That's the rest of their schedule before the Buy Shield. After this week, they got the Bills. And then it's Cardinals Raiders. Again, Raiders, three and one, taking nothing away from. The O and four chargers, the one and three commanders, the one and three Cardinals. That's your schedule.

So if they are now winning those games by 20 points and playing in all facets of the game, if Puka continues to stay healthy, which there's a lot going on in that situation. I know we visited specialists. everybody agreed he can continue to play. But those groin injuries or a ductor or whatever they are, pre-hernia or hernia, those make me nervous because you're one weird thing away from happening. That's like it's surgery and it's eight weeks.

As long as they're healthy and at some point you get miles back, they've got a chance to be that team. Right now, I think as much as anything, you are seeing the Matthew Stafford and Sean McVeigh remain among the best at their respective jobs in the NFL because when the pressure is on and you're playing these tight games, you're down.

they found a way to rally against the Eagles. They found a way to keep everybody playing and to adjust and come back at the end. That's coaching and quarterback play in terms of the whole team together. Let's see. Starting Monday night against the bills and then in that stretch of games you would think

on paper, the ranch should be winning all of these. Let's see what they look like and I'll give you more of a sound verdict by the by. I think I'm on the other side a little bit. I think I feel great about them. I feel like they've had all those things you mentioned have gone against them or have not gone their way. But I still watch them every week and I'm like, this is a great team.

They outgain the Giants by 300 yards. They outgain the Broncos by 225 yards. They outgain the Eagles by 244 yards. There's only been seven games this year where a team has outgated its opponent by 200. Three of those seven have been the Rams. Now, the things on the margins make me nervous, Tom, and the special teams, I don't understand with these Sean McVeigh Rams, why it seems to be an issue every year.

I mean, even last week, that could have been the thing that caused them the game. So if I'm in that building, I'm like, everybody take a deep breath. But Sean, what's our plan for figuring out special teams? We do not want to get into a playoff game or a big game against the Seahawks or the 49ers

or a high leverage game in week 17 or week 18. And we lose that game because of special teams. I think everything else I feel really good about. You mentioned Stafford, Nakua. Kyran Williams is playing the best football of his career. I mean, his touchdown run last week was incredible. He's been fantastic. You know what you're getting from McFay. You know what you're getting from Stafford. Even defensively, without Miles Garrett, I mean, Chris Shula had the Eagles headspinning last week with some of his

blitzes and pressures and simulated pressures. I think he's done a good job with the injuries he's had on that side of the ball. So I like, I think they're about to go on a run is basically what I'm about to say. You gave the schedule. We'll see where I land on that game against the bills Monday night. but I think if you look at like the next six weeks or so, I think they're going to go on a run. I think they're going to get Garrett back. I think we're going to get to December. And the hype that this team had coming into the season is going to be there.

Just check out those special teams, Sean, if you're listening. That's all I'm saying. I do think that bringing in above Ventron will pay dividends over time. Sean's like there's so many different coordinators in his time there. There is, you know, it's not quite like offense or defense, but there are still different schemes and you're trying to figure out your new personnel. I anticipate those. get better in that area. It's just

the number one concern with me with the Rams. I said this before the season. I said it after Miles went on, I know it's just when you have an older team, how healthy can you stay? And it also applies to the 49ers in their own division. How healthy are those older star players going to stay? If the Rams can get

guys back as opposed to losing them, obviously that'll be a huge positive for them moving forward. We've got a game Thursday night. kicking this thing off. It's the bucks and the cowboys it's more compelling than you think. I'll tell you why after this. Box at Cowboys, Thursday night football, kicking off week five, Sheel.

I'm not in the camp of, you know, it's when or everyone gets fired in Tampa. The glazers in their three decades of ownership have never fired a coach in season. They haven't played a division game yet. They're playing with an undrafted rookie backup quarterback. But certainly something has to change if you fall to 0 and 5. So that makes this a particular. important game ahead of a mini buy. It'll feel a lot different at one and four than it would at 0 and 5.

And for the Cowboys, it's a big game too. It feels like there have been times. And this is strictly anecdotal. But it feels like there have been times through the years, Shea, where the Cowboys in particular have been subject to that lull game, where a team comes in and they've got a bad record. I think back to the game where the Cowboys play, this is prior regime, but they played against the Broncos at home.

And it was like they were heavy favorites. And like Giovante Williams ran for like, 150 yards and they just blew their doors off. Thursdays are always weird. I kind of wonder, like the Cowboys, especially defensively, like are they fully ready to go? The offense looked awesome, especially CD-LAM last week. I think it's a sneaky good game because the Bucks absolutely know what's on the line.

Baker should be back in the relatively new future. What do you make of it? Bucks were competitive last week against the Packers. They're in that game to the end. I struggle with this Bucks team because if you look at it, yes, they're O and 4. they're playing a backup quarterback. They've been a disappointment this year. On the other hand, I feel like some of the excuses are relevant with the bucks.

You know, four or one score games, they're not getting blown out in any of these games. They've lost four games by a total of 20 points. They're in all of these games. You have an injury to your starting quarterback. It's just like, it doesn't look to me like a poorly coached team. I know the instinct is to just look at it and go, oh, they're going to be 0.5. They're disappointing Todd Bowles. It's a short week.

You have time before the next week. now's the time to pull the plug. I don't look at it and go they're losing because the coaching staff is doing a bad job. I actually think their defense has played pretty well. And, you know, if you look at some of the numbers, it backs it up that they've been one of the more surprising units in the NFL. And it's just like offensively, what do you kind of expect when you lose your backup quarterback and you're starting an undrafted free agent here who I don't think was terrible,

you know, he scrambled a little bit. He bade some plays. He's going to make mistakes that you expect from a rookie undrafted free agent. So I don't, like, I'm hesitant to pull the plug on too early because of what you said earlier about the schedule and it's the NFC South and can you just hang in there. So I'm with you. I don't think even if they lose this game, it's not like we're trading everybody. We're looking ahead to next season. I don't think that's how they operate.

I don't think that's how they built the roster. You just paid Baker Mayfield, you know, all that money. It's not like you're looking ahead to drafting a quarterback or anything. So I think you want to see some signs of life here. It'd be great if you can Steve. a win. Even if you can't, I don't think they're a team that's going to punt on their season. It might sound crazy. But even if they go 0 and 5, I don't think they're going to look at it and say, all right, we're looking ahead to 2027. I also guarantee you there's no one more pissed off right now

than Baker Mayfield. Not only that they're 0 and 4, but that he's not able to play, that he got hurt on that freaky thing where he's scrambling around and trying to make something happen at the end of the Minnesota game. He got the stitches out of his thumb on Monday. I know that they said minimum three weeks. It could be up to six. I'm just telling you, Baker in his mind wants to beat the timeline. The doctors are going to have their say, but Baker will absolutely, in my mind, he's got to regain the grip strength. Okay, there's all these kind of functional things. But he's going to push to try to be out there the next game. So find a way just to steal this one in Dallas where no one's giving you a chance. I haven't looked at what the line is, but it can't be favorable. Eight and a half. Eighthap big underdogs. Yeah. You know, you're huge underdogs in the game. No one's expecting you to give a fight. But again, Thursdays are weird games, man. Like, there's just, there's different things about it.

I don't know how quickly the defense now, integrating Joey Porter Jr., how quickly are they ramping him up? He played a couple dozen snaps last week. Can he make the difference? Can they cover up just some of those things that have been happily? It's a complicated scheme. You know, it's basically the Vic Fangio scheme.

The Christian Parker is implemented, and that's not always easy for everyone to adapt to. So how quickly can they clean those things? up. There's the kind of chaos. You said there was some scrambling from Jalen Daniels. That's the biggest thing. He's got a big arm too, but the number one thing he can do is just kind of create things. You put him out there, you give him a play. That may or may not be how the play actually goes. And he's going to try to create something with his legs. That can sometimes be good because the defense is playing you to stop the play you're running,

not the off-schedule schedule stuff that the quarterback's doing. But, you know, the emeka abuccas of the world, Bucky Irvings, those guys have to step up. The Jaylen McMillan loss was a big deal. That was probably, depending on you talk to, that might have been the best receiver on their team. So Chris Godwin, Abuka, step up and make some plays. The offensive line hasn't been at their best. Cody Malk still looks like he's coming off of an injury.

Everybody's got to play better. But you've got one chance to do this, and rather than sitting for 10 days and wondering who's going to get fired and we're 0 and 5, what do we do now? Get the win on the short week. Get to 1 and 4, just kind of like the Patriots in Buffalo last week where it's a huge exhale. If you can just find a way,

way as unlikely as it seems, regardless of the line, just find a way to get a win. And that Cowboys defense, I mean, their bottom three in every metric, there are signs of life here and there. And I'm with you, I think even if you look at Vic Fangio's first season in Miami and Philadelphia, that first month wasn't pretty in either spot. It does take time to learn your personnel and figure it out. But that's a break of getting to face them here in week five. And so it's a short week. Your quarterback, like you said, can make those second reaction plays. I think there's a chance they could move the football a little bit and keep this one close. The Joey Porter Jr. thing is very interesting to me.

It feels like a lot of eggs in the basket if he's going to help fix a lot of things and get Duran Bland in a different role on this defense and it's going to fix things for this defense. You know, they got him in there right away last week. We'll see how many snaps he plays this week. They just need that defense to be average. I've said, you've heard me say it a million times because that offense is cooking. I mean, they looked unbelievable last week. They're one of the best offense is in the NFL. Their left tackle, Tyler Guyton is kind of one of these making the leap type guys.

It feels like this year where he's playing really good football for them, their best offensive lineman, Tyler Smith, hasn't even played yet. They're going to get him back healthy at some point. So, yeah, if the Cowboys, you know, we talked about the Bucks end of it, if the Cowboys can come in here and just score 35, we're going to be talking about them as no, they definitely are the team to beat in the NFC East here. So, yeah, entertaining, you know,

Cowboys offense is fun to watch and Bucks have a quarterback who I think people are going to find relatively entertaining. Let's see if we regret saying that when we do our show on Friday, but I think he can do some things. Todd Bowles isn't just going to sit back and say let's just chill out and play some

Shell zone. Now he's going to get after you. So the elements, the schematic elements of this game, I'm not sure it's going to be close. I think it could be close, but the schematic elements at least should provide for some entertainment. We'll break down that game on this show on Friday. We got the ringer 107 picks. We got our main characters heading into the Sunday of

week five. And who knows? Maybe we even have Billy Gill. Unclear. We will effort details on, if he's not that, we'll effort details on the type of case. If he's actually on the jury, is he an alter, whatever we can legally tell you about the fate and the situation surrounding Billy Gill. We will bring you those updates on Friday. Thank you to everybody for watching and listening to this episode. Thanks, Arjuna, Chris, the whole team behind the scenes. Michelle, I'm Tom. See you. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. or Wyoming, gambling problem. Call 1-800-gambler or

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