The Ringer NFL Show - How NFL Scheme Changes Affect Fantasy Football | The Dantasy Football Podcast (Ep. 276)

Episode Date: August 3, 2018

The Ringer’s Danny Kelly and Danny Heifetz dig in to what a few major scheme changes for mean for fantasy football in 2018. The Dannies break down the Titans’ new-look offense under Matt LaFleur and why it gives Marcus Mariota a strong chance to bounce back (02:00). They then take a look at the Bears’ offensive overhaul (18:00) before diving in to why Eli Manning will maximize Saquon Barkley's and Odell Beckham Jr.'s potential and how Pat Shurmur can make the Giants fantasy relevant again this year (34:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello! My name is Danny Hyfitz. I am Danny Kelly. And this is the Dynasty Football Podcast. We are the number one fantasy football podcast, exclusively hosted by people named Danny. And we are proud to be part of the Ringer podcast Network. This is our first episode, Danny. Yeah.

So we're going to be coming at you guys every week, talking all things fantasy, all the essentials, you know, from sleepers and, you know, crushing the draft and waiver wire and stuff. but we also want to get into some of the X's and O's behind a lot of the numbers you hear traditionally when talking about fantasy. And we're really excited to really be focusing on a lot of the why behind the advice that we're going to give. So we're really excited. So Deakin, how are you feeling, man? How you doing, dude? And I'm ready for this season to get going.

It's crazy. The Hall of Fame game is tonight. So this is the first game day of the year officially. Yes, the Hall of Fame game, one of the 12 different days that football is back before football comes back. So for today's episode, our maiden voyage, we wanted to start with a huge theme, which is stay scheming. Breaking news, schemes are really important. They matter. But in fantasy, we hear all the time, like, there's a new coordinator who's going to change the scheme.

Watch out for this team, it's new. But we wanted to actually explore, like, what's going to change? And we actually thought it was worth devoting an entire episode to looking at a few teams that everyone kind of universally agrees. A new coordinator has brought a new scheme that will make their players better. better, but we wanted a whole episode on why. So without further ado, shall we dive in, D.K.? Yeah, let's do this. So, let's start with the Titans.

The Titans are just the perfect example of this. It's ridiculous. You know, everybody you hear right now, when you talk about the Titans, you're going to hear roughly the same story. You know, the Titans under head coach Mike Malarkey, they introduced this brand of football called Exotic Smash Mouth, which I can't laugh, not laugh. It sounded so good, but it did. The idea was building around Tennessee's, you know, hulking Bowler. offensive line, and they ram the ball down opposing quarterback throats, control the ball, protect Marioota, and you know, blending old school Harnows football with new stuff.

Right. Which sounded great. That's the idea. What actually happened was the Titans ran out the least imaginative offensive football. It was just vanilla like Dunder Mifflin stuff. Marioita had the worst season of his career by the numbers and it was worse by the eye test. Started actually throwing interceptions. and none of the receivers broke 800 yards, and it was gross.

He was fired. Yeah, he got fired. It was awful. So in 2018 now, Malarkey gets replaced by Pat's linebacker, Mike Vrable. Vrable hires Matt LaFleur, who also interviewed for the head coaching job. LeFleur is a Kyle Shanhan disciple who coordinated the Rams offense last year, and he turned around Goff and the Rams with Sean McVeigh, and everyone expects this guy, LaFleur, he's this wonder boy to turn the Titans offense into this beautiful, modern design,

and he's going to send into the clouds in Mount Olympus and Corey Davis and Delaney Walker will lead you to Fantasy Elysium. That's kind of pretty much how this narrative goes, right, D.K. Yeah, that's about right. That's what I'm hoping for anyway. And I don't know what the hell is going to be in terms of how close it's going to be to, I guess, the Redskins under RG3 or Shanahan,

what he did with the Falcons or, you know, whether it's going to be more like McVey. But it's going to be modern. And that's what really matters, I think. Exactly. There's all this talk about. Lafleur being a disciple of Shanhan and McVeigh in a modern offense. But what's actually going to change with the Titans offense?

They're just going to be way more diverse with their personnel and with their plays. I think last year they tied for 30th in three receiver sets, which is now the modern set in the NFL. They are only running those 45% of the time. So they're very old school in that sense. That's not necessarily a bad thing if you have the right players and the right quarterback. But I mean, you're talking about Marcus Marriota, one of the greatest, college spread quarterbacks of all time. They ran like a really, really fast offense at Oregon.

He was just kind of like the prototype spread slash read option style quarterback. And then they tried to put him in that offense and it just did not work. Conversely, the Rams last year were first in three receiver sets. They ran those 84% of the time. So I think you can expect at the very least, you're going to have way more three receivers sets. You're going to have them spread out the field a whole lot more and basically just utilize their receivers more in terms of getting guys open and making it easier on Marriota.

I think that also has, they're going to be doing a lot more pre-snap motion, which is, I mean, again, it's just obvious. It's more confusing. It helps slow down the pass rush slightly. Because you're also able to help identify what coverage the defenses are running and then it's also just confusing.

Yeah, so it helps the quarterback kind of figure out whether they're in man or zone. There's just so many advantages to us, so they're going to do that a lot more. The other thing that I think is going to be really interesting to watch, and we kind of saw this last year with the Rams was McVeigh was basically what they would do is they would hurry up and get to the line and then McVeigh would take a look at what the defense was doing, how they were lining up,

and give Goff, you know, like an audible or a play call, and then that would be kind of like this crutch that Goff could use. And there was a, there was a one of the games, I can't remember which I heard Tony Roan were talking about how Jared Goff was doing way more at the line than he ever seen a second year guy do. It was incredible. And bottom line is it's because McVeigh was feeding him, you know, information. It was just huge. It was like this huge crutch that I could utilize to just be more efficient.

And so, yeah, that's actually my favorite thing that the Rams did last year. And I think it's the hardest thing to actually see on television. But the microphones cut out, I believe, at the 15 second mark. And one of the benefits, yeah, the benefits of lining up quickly is you make the defense have to establish. But McVeigh was like, well, if the microphones cut out, just get there earlier and I'll be Peyton Manning calling it lines. It's brilliant. Yeah, one of the hardest things to do as a quarterback, and especially as a young quarterback,

I think we still count Marriott in that category is just the sheer amount of information you have to get to your team, whether it's the play call, where you're lining up and all that stuff. It can just be really, really difficult to kind of just run with all that during a game. And so I'd expect Lefleur will probably do some of that stuff

with the Titans this year. And so, again, it's getting to the line really fast, kind of looking it over and then changing the play that based on what the defense is showing you, it's huge. Yeah, there's all this talk about how do you, what does it mean to put a quarterback in a position to succeed and succeed? And sometimes it's literally, no, he's literally in his ear at the line. But that's the pre-snap stuff. But what about when the ball gets hiked? What do you expect when after the snap? Yeah, I mean, I think the big thing there is more play action. I don't, you know, this is kind of a whole league-wide thing. I don't understand why

teams don't use play action more. But last year, Mario to ranked 10th in play action. which is actually solid number, but they definitely did not use it enough last year. I think they're going to probably use it a whole lot more next year. And that is, if you look at Goss numbers, he was first in the NFL in play action percentage, almost 30%. And here's the other thing that was really, really important. Marriota was extremely good on play action.

He was first in the NFL in quarterback rating on play action throws, 122.8. First in the NFL in yards for attempt on play action throws, 11.2. And if you look at the difference between his play action versus non-play action, yards per attempt, it was the biggest discrepancy in the NFL. So he was frankly terrible on non-play action plays and really, really, really good on playaction plays. And for some reason, I mean, this is like the perfect reasoning example that they've hired Malarkey. They ran three play-action plays in that playoff loss to the Patriots, just three. Are you serious?

Yeah, you're taking away what your quarterback does best. It's like it makes no sense. And so I'm sorry, wait, quick tangent. Every time I say Matt Lafleur, I think of Dodgeball. When he's like, Benzler was like, beat it, Lefleur. And I'm just like, Jim, what are the odds we get that as a sound effect? Lefleur. So you're telling me that Marcus Marietta was the best play-action passer,

and he's now being coordinated by the guy who had the most play-action passes last year. Yeah, I mean, again, it's like, yeah, McVeigh was the one, I think, really behind the offense, but I think that LaFiller probably learned an amazing amount of lessons doing that, I think that they'll definitely apply that here. I think, and I wouldn't be surprised honestly, if they, if several teams get above 30% play action percent this year, because again, it just, it helps the quarterback. It moves linebackers.

It sucks them up into like a little bit, whether it's just like one or two steps. It just helps passing lanes. And then it also, you know, makes passing, you know, the reads a little bit easier. It's just, it's helpful for the, for the quarterback. And so I think that's going to be huge again this year. And so, you know,

those are the main. reasons. Like if you're really getting into the nitty-gritty, you know, those are the reasons I think that Marriota is due for a big, big bump this year. And that's, you know, he was already kind of just due for a positive regression based on the fact that he played last year, hurt mostly. He, his touchdown percentage dropped, you know, away from his, his career average. So he was already going to be expected to be a positive

regression candidate. But now I think with this new offense, utilizing him how he should be utilized, I think it's going to be huge. Yeah. And, yeah, I, couldn't agree more. And we expect Marioada and the Titans to be better. So what does that mean in terms of the actual passing offense? None of their receivers topped 800 yards. Delaney Walker was the only pass catcher.

He had 807. Not the best year for them. I think part of that is because they ran so many two receivers sets. But what do you think the effect will be on the Titans pass catchers this year? Everyone's really high on them because of it. But how do you think that actually will look on the field? Why do you think everyone's very high on them? Well, I mean, that's the question, obviously.

It's a lot of projection, and it goes back to what I was talking about. You don't really know exactly what Lefleur's offense is per se, because I think it was mostly McFay. He was the one designing the offense more or less. And LeFleur did. He's a Shanahan disciple more. He spent six years as quarterback coach for Shanahan. But Shanahan also is a lot of the play action.

Shanahan loves play action. He's less, I think he's less inclined to do the three-receiver set stuff that heavily. So that, to me, is like a question you have to answer. are they going to be doing 85% three receiver sets like the Rams last year? Are you going to be doing it more in sort of the way that Shanahan has done over the years where he uses a lot more two tight-in sets and two running back sets? And so to me that's going to be the interesting part. But I do think you can kind of like project roles for guys based on what the Rams did last year.

I think Richard Matthews probably plays the Z receiver role that Robert Woods played. Oh, really? Corey Davis is probably their number one guy is kind of that X receiver. the go-to guy, if you will. Obviously, there's a lot of projection because he didn't have a great rookie season. He showed up late in the air and had kind of an amazing last game against the Patriots. He caught two touchdowns, including one that was an incredible one-handed catch in the back of the end zone. So I think he's kind of, you know, he's a projection, but I think he could be that guy.

And then Tewan Taylor, I think, will be the Cooper Cup slot receiver type guy. And that could be big because if you look at the Rams offense last year, Cooper Cup was one of Jared Gough's favorite targets. I think he led the team in red zone targets and kind of not the typical slot type thing. So Taiwan Taylor could be sort of a late round guy to target just based on... Undrafted right now.

He's undrafted right now. I mean, yeah, just take a flyer on him in the last round. That's what I'm saying. So, again, it's a huge rejection and we have to see how it all shakes out. But I think that's kind of like how you can pencil guys in. And you compared Corey Davis to Sammy Watkins. Do you want to elaborate it that big?

because obviously Sammy Watkins physically talented was kind of a decoy in the Rams offense last year. Yeah. Well, first of all, at the X receiver. What do you see as an X receiver being and then how do you see Corey Davis kind of this season? So the general gist of the extra receiver, and these definitions kind of are fluid

because teams don't really have guys that play one role anymore. They move guys around. In the words of Pirates of the Caribbean from Barbosa, it's more like guidelines, really. Jim, that's another sound effect we need. We need it's more like guidelines. So the X in general is the guy that lines up on the line. He doesn't go into motion.

And he's typically like a big playmaker who can get off press and he's good in the red zone. He can run deep. And he's the number one guy. The Z is typically lining up off the line of scrimmage. So that means he can go into motion. He can move around. They'll send him into motion a lot and run over the middle of the field. He kind of does a little bit of everything.

He's a hybrid between a slot and an outside guy. And one of the benefits of being off the line means you're not going to, it's harder to press you. Right, exactly. You don't get pressed. You don't have to be as good at that, that, you know, getting off that first jam, you know, because they can stack you and do things like that. And, you know, that's the other thing, too, that we didn't even talk about. They'll just getting guys open and the McVeigh scheme is so good at that, like stacking trips and making it really difficult for a defender to, you know, slow down your route or get you off, get you off your route. It's just helpful for the quarterback. Yeah, I think one traditional idea of putting a receiver offset was if he's not necessarily great at getting off press to put him stack. But now I think an increasing trend is taking one of your best receivers putting him back so that they're completely unimpeded. The Giants do that. It'll back them all the time. Although I will talk about Odell later.

Okay, let me read you the ADPs of some of the Rams receivers and the Titans receivers. And I'm curious what you think about those. So first we got Brandon Cooks, who is currently being draft. in the sixth round, 58th overall. Robert Woods for the Rams being drafted in the eighth round. Corey Davis is being drafted 10th. Cooper Cup is going in the 11th round. Every other Titans receiver, and I'm including Richard Matthews here,

you can get now undrafted. Wow. So, first of all, how would you, considering you just compared Corey Davis to Watkins and, you know, Brand new Cooks might be filling that role? How do you kind of feel about those Titans receivers? So you like Taywon Taylor-Ure up? drafted. I like Tawon Taylor a lot. I think that Rashard Matthews is going to be a really good value, assuming he can get healthy, and that's a big if, but I like Matthews a lot. I think he probably,

of all the Titans receivers probably has the best value versus upside. I think Tewan Taylor is another guy that could emerge with a pretty big role. And then Corey Davis is he's just a wild card. I don't really know. I mean, if you want to like chase, I think touchdown upside with him, that's definitely understandable. I mean, look at Samuel Watkins, I think, had eight touchdowns last year, so it's not like he was a total bust. But again, it's hard to compare both offenses

like one to one. And I think that Corey Davis is going to emerge as the team's top guy, but he's a second year guy who proved nothing really in his first year. So it's just a huge kind of wild card. I would go with the guys who are more established. Richard Matthews is probably my favorite on that

group for his value right now. But again, obviously, you have to take into account the injury. Yeah. Okay. Let's get to the Titans backfield. This is probably one of the more mysterious, I guess, backfield combos because both guys are really good, Derek Henry and Dionne Lewis.

And right now, it's just kind of hard to decide who is going to be the lead guy. I think they're going to split, you know, they're going to split carries, most likely. And the, I guess, sort of logic is that Henry would be an early down guy and Dionne Lewis will be a later down guy who can really factor into the passing attack because he's a solid pass catcher

last year he didn't drop a pass. He was perfect as a pass blocker per PFF and just really reliable. But both guys are really good runners. Both guys are really good in between the tackles. Yeah, Lewis gets a wrap for being smaller, right? I mean, there's that... Yeah, I mean, everyone saw the picture

of the two guys saying next to each other and like he's literally almost like half the height of Derek Henry or whatever. So I think kind of the... conventional thinking is that Henry is going to be the between the tackles guy and Lewis is like a scatback, but Lewis is really good between the tackles. He's really strong runner between the tackles and really elusive. He was first in the in pro football focus is elusive rating last year. He was third in yards per contact or yards per carry after contact. He's a good,

he's a good running back. I'm really high on Lewis. I think just based on his versatility, his reliability, I'm a little bit higher on him than Henry. I think Henry definitely showed up late last year and kind of gave you a glimpse of what he could do as like a belk out guy, but I don't know if he's going to have that role with this team this year. I think Lewis might kind of emerge as the lead guy. Okay, so with everything you just said, right now on Yahoo ADP, Henry's going 51st overall, Dian Lewis going 70th overall, at those two values, which guy would you rather have?

I'm taking Lewis, honestly, I think, and especially in a PPR league. I mean, if you're in a PBR league, I think he has more value because just, like I said, the utility in the passing game is he's a solid pass blocker, veteran guy, you know, shifting in the open field, all that stuff. And so I lean Lewis on that one. Especially with those spacing concepts. All right, D.K., before we move on, let's take a quick break. This NFL season, be your GM, be a winning GM.

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All right, D.K. I said the Titans had one of the least imaginative offenses last year because I wanted to save the least imaginative for the Bears. John Fox, bless his heart, had an interesting strategy for Chicago last year, which involved dragging the very sport of football back into the 19th century. Yeah. I don't even know how else to say it. They were last in pass attempts. You want to elaborate on this, D.K.? Yeah, I mean, they were just. I don't know. Fox was trying to eliminate all factors on offense, I think. It was basically just like don't turn the ball over.

And that was his whole game plan. They were really, really slow. They ran a ton. You know, they did not, they didn't utilize Trubisky how he was used in college and how he was comfortable in college. It just didn't make any sense, really, to me. And, you know, obviously we saw the results of that. It was a terrible offense and no fun to watch.

And I think Bears fans should rejoice. In his defense, he did try to have Trubisky roll out of the pocket, be mobile, cut the field in half, so you didn't have to make full field reads and do that stuff. But my God, it was disgusting to watch the bears. I mean, they did that sometimes, but they also did, I mean, they were under center a ton.

I think that Chubisky was mostly shotgun in college and all that stuff. They didn't, you know, they would tease you with like RPO's and things like that, but they're not really doing that much. It was just really annoying. I think this year is going to be, you know, just. a lot more logical.

Yeah, the issue with the Fox was a coaching sin plays for the sake of plays rather than plays integrated into a larger plan. And then now kind of the narrative we're discussing here, the thing you always hear now about the Bears is that has been replaced. And now you're getting Matt Nagy. Nagy, Nagy? I don't know. Anyway, the narrative you're hearing is

Matt Nagy is going to come from Kansas City. Matt Nagy spent basically his entire coaching career under Andy Reed as an intern for the Eagles, followed Reed to the chiefs spent the whole time as a quarterback's coach. Last year he was their coordinator, and obviously they kind of ushered in under Reed, this whole kind of evolution of modern NFL offenses

where they took pro styles of West Coast, merge it with the spread to create kind of like spread coast. It's really cool and nerdy. Which is a great name for it, and I'm going to start using that. Yeah, spread coast stuff. And obviously Andy Reid's a huge part of their play calling. But for all the Bumble reputation Andy Reid has for burning timeouts and stuff, he's really like an offensive savant.

And he had a huge hand in creating this. And while Nagy can't get all the credit as coordinator, that's really, he's a reed disciple. And this is, Andy Reid just kind of changed how they play football. So the idea is that the Bears' offense is like the Titans making this like quantum leap in terms of thinking. Absolutely. Having said that, what do you think it will actually look like in Chicago last year coming from Kansas City? Yeah.

I mean, so like 30,000 feet sort of perspective on it is that it's going to be more logical. They're going to use Trubisky, I think, to his. to his skill set and his talent, his athleticism, I think it's going to be perfect for him because I think there's some similarity from Trubisky and Smith and the fact that they're both really mobile athletic guys with strong arms and, you know,

there's just some similarities there. So basically the chiefs offense in a nutshell was it's a West Coast foundation under Andy Reed. And then they mixed in a whole bunch of pre-snap motion, which we talked about earlier. That kind of just changes the, what defenses have to think about prior to the snap. They did RPO's, read options,

basically giving defenders impossible decisions, making it easier on your quarterback, making reads easier, things like that. And then it was all about getting players in space, and they had a ton of really, you know, their personnel was perfect for that because you got, like, Tyree Kill, who's a super explosive.

You've got Cream Hunt, who can break tackles, and Travis Kelsey, who's probably one of the most dynamic tight ends in the NFL. And so they were just getting guys in space and you know the big the other big thing was Alex Smith

had his best year by far passing deep and I think it had a lot to do with what they were doing underneath and so yeah it was just kind of it all kind of worked together they it wasn't you know during the middle of the season they really kind of got away from some of their their core philosophies I think but then Matt Nagy took over

and kind of got them back on track and I think that was a big reason he got the head coaching job so that's kind of the nutshell thing it's basically a like you said it's a hybrid between the west coast and spread. And so I'm really excited to see how it goes in Chicago. And as our colleague Robert Mays wrote on Theringer.com, what a great website.

Today, Thursday, he got a quote from Chicago backup quarterback Chase Daniel, who said, the new offense is going to be a lot like Kansas City. There's going to be some Oregon stuff in it's going to be a mixed bag. We're going to multiple in our formations and our personal groupings and we're going to blitz the defense. And Mays talks about, you know, they, in addition, Nagy's head coach, Nagy then hired Mark Helphrick, who was the, you know, an Oregon coach. So they're really committed to this idea.

Having said that, knowing that it's going to be like the chief's offense, how do you see Nagy trying to build the chiefs in Chicago, since the chiefs have just elite weapons at each position the bears don't quite have? How do you see the bear's moves? They assigned Alan Robinson. They added Taylor Gabriel. How do you see the Chicago's moves correlating to what the chiefs try to do? Yeah.

So obviously you don't have the elite guys. So basically what they're doing is through free agency and through the draft and through what they had on their roster, they're trying to recreate the roles that, you know, the chief's offense used, different personnel. But I think you have to throw multiple guys at each of those roles because you don't have singular talents that, you know, can do those things like Tyree Kill. Yeah, they signed Trey Burton, who obviously was in the Philly Special,

but he's still not Travis Kelsey. No. And so you have to throw, you know, Travis Kels. he's a really good blocker and he's a really good pass catcher he can move all around. So you put Trey Burton, who's more of like a speed guy and combine him with Adam Shaheen, and then you kind of have a dual threat guy, even though you can't use them in the same spot all the time. It's just kind of like, I think they have to slowly, you know, figure it out by combining guys. I think, you know, Kareem Hunt, really, really good at breaking tackles,

and he's really good in the passing attack. and so Jordan Howard, not a great guy in the passing attack, so you have to combine him with, you know, Tariq Cohen and Benny Cunningham or whoever. And so, yeah, I think right now it's tough to identify specific roles for guys because, number one, it's going to be slightly different offense. Number two, they just don't have like a one-to-one comparison in terms of the talent. And so they're going to have to, I think, throw different guys at the roles.

And it'll be really fun to watch kind of how that develops. But I think you can kind of, you can still, identify who's going to be go-to guys. Obviously, Alan Robinson, they gave him a lot of money, he's going to be big. And then I think Jordan Howard's still going to get a ton of carries. Because, you know, you talk about the spread stuff and all that, but both the Chiefs and Oregon's offense,

both very, very dedicated to running. Like, running is still a huge deal for both of those kind of offensive schemes. And so I think Jordan Howard's still going to get a lot of play. So you're kind of saying they don't have any one-to-one players, but they'll be able to take aspects of their players and match the skills that Tyree Kill and hunt out in any given play. Tiger Kill is a very neat talent and that he can run down the field and stretch the defense.

He can also do one of neat stuff, and he can also take an end around in the backfield and toss it to Travis Kelsey. And they can, none of those guys are individually as good, but you can take the shiftingness of Tarry Cohen and replicate some of what Tyree Kil can do in the backfield. Trey Burton can do some of the athletic stuff Kelsey does in the backfield as well.

and they'll be able to kind of make shift a patchwork look alike to what the chiefs did even if they have to use five players to recreate what those three did. That's kind of what I'm expecting. I think they'll, you know, it'll just mean

they have to rotate and they have to be multiple you know, so guys don't get, so guys aren't giving away what they're doing, right? And so I think that's going to be a lot of fun to watch. Yeah, I think the, to Rick Cohen, to me is the most fascinating guy in this offense because, you know, in really short, And this is kind of just another great example of why the bears were so frustrating last year

because Cohen early in the year was like amazing. I mean, he was doing it all. And then they slowly just phased him out for no reason that I could see. I guess they were trying to protect him, but it was just really annoying. So he's, you know, I don't know what they're going to do with him, but it's going to be fun. And so one of the main things I'm kind of hearing from you is spacing with the spread coast, taking it from the chiefs and just so much better, different thinking about. spacing in the Chicago offense

among many other things. Another big thing is they're going to be running shotgun way, way more which is also kind of a good, it's a good way to create spacing and all that. So I mean, they're just not compressing everything into the tackle box as much

and I think that's going to be huge for them. So having said that and everything you just said, on Yahoo ADP right now, Jordan Howard is going 30th overall. Yeah. Tarry Cohen is going roughly 105th. Who would you rather have?

Howard. Really? I think they're still going to run a lot. I think it's going to be a very run-heavy offense. I mean, if you look at what Hunt did last year, he was the leading rusher in the NFL. He was obviously really valuable in the passing attack too, but I think they're still going to want to run the ball.

And I actually talked about this in article a couple weeks ago. There's still going to be a slow offense in the sense that, I want to say KC was somewhere in the bottom 10 or bottom 5 in pace. They're still a slow team because the bears were really, really slow in terms of plays per snap. Now, Oregon, at least in the old days under Chip Kelly, were really, really, really, really fast. So I don't know, I haven't looked at Oregon's stats lately, but I imagine they're still pretty fast in terms of snapping the ball. So we'll see if that changes at all. But under Nagy last year, the Chiefs were a slowish team.

and so they would kind of look to slow the game down a little bit. So the pace is going to be another interesting thing to me. But I do think that Howard is going to be relied on as the bell cow guy. He's not going to be a big pass catcher or whatever, but I think he's still going to get his touches. Okay. Basically difficult to compare the chiefs of last year to the Bears of this year. I think right now obviously Alan Robinson, kind of the leader in the clubhouse,

they paid him a bunch of money. Formerly had really, really great stats, touchdown score, kind of a, you know, red zone threat guy, deep threat. I think he's obviously going to be the number one guy. Taylor Gabriel, you know, take the top off of a defense field stretching type guy, and he'll probably get his money. But he's going to be touchdown dependent, I think, which is kind of a concern. And then obviously there's a couple of wildguards in the group, Anthony Miller, the rookie.

I think he's probably going to end up being their starting slot guy, which could end up being a high-producing guy. And then throw in Kevin White, is he the X-Factor? guy that... Kevin White's a myth. I don't think he actually... Is he even real person? He's like a paperwork accounting trick.

Yeah. Well, actually, I think it's easy to think that because you have Lefleur in Tennessee and the Negey here that like you're going to have similar things. But the reality is that in Tennessee and Lefleur, he's getting the same unit last year. All those guys are basically, it's the same group. Right. Right. Totally.

You can't even compare, never mind the Bears to the Chief. You can't even compare this year's Bears to last year's Bears. Absolutely. Yeah, that's true. The whole past catching units, rightfully so, kind of been turned over. So do you... It's impossible. But I think that would be like my hierarchy there.

Alan Robinson is the true number one for sure. I think Anthony Miller is probably going to have a pretty good... going to get pretty good volume. Do you think Anthony Miller's like the second mouth that gets fed? Probably. And then I think Taylor Gabriel is going to be a touchdown dependent deep threat. And then I don't know what the hell Ken White's going to be. It'll be interesting.

Gabriel's the exact kind of player that like I just don't like to draft because I don't like to start him. Maybe I'm wrong. But like I don't see. Unless it's like the Will Fuller kind of like I can't believe he's catching a touchdown every week I'm always afraid of those boomer bust kind of guys and Taylor Gabriel especially in this offense with a quarterback

like I don't trust Trubisky as far as I could throw him and I don't have a good arm. I mean unless you think he's going to be Tyreek Hill which he's not. I don't think it's going to be a case. I like Taylor Gabriel and again it's what we were talking about how he isn't there to be Tyree Kill he's there to be the vertical stretch

of Tyree Kill which alone I don't think is a great fantasy aspect but if you think Miller's actually going to be, that's actually really intriguing. Another guy you can get for really cheap. Potentially, yeah, I liked him a lot in college, you know, really high-volume guy. What do you think about Trey Burton in a Kelsey-esque-ish role? I mean, I think they're definitely going to utilize those move tight ends

to try and create mismatches over the middle of field. And tight end's just a shallow position in general. I could see him being a pretty solid producer. So I'm actually pretty high on him. I'm not like thinking he's going to turn into Kelsey, but I like him. I like him because Kelsey, my favorite plays that she's ran

are actually when Kelsey just does weird stuff in the backfield. And I obviously like, what people know Trey Burton for now? The triple option shovel pass last year? Yeah, that stuff is fun. That's like great. I could see them doing that.

Yeah, that would be awesome. You get a passing touch for it. Like, Trey Burton can definitely do that kind of stuff. So I think that would be fun. And I actually, it would be really cool if Trey Burton became Travis Kelsey Light And then obviously that would just be a great fantasy value. Yeah.

So, yeah, I like Tray Burton. As does Robert Mays. Nice. Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm totally with you on the Bears. I don't think I like or trust Trubisky enough to draft him, to be honest, even if he does improve significantly. But I trust that he can be put in a position that everyone will be better.

And I think that because of what you're saying about those roles, really being up for grabs, I think Terry Cohen is kind of like utility infielder and that he'll be all over the offense in a way that I don't know what he'll be. doing every game or even every snap, but there will always be work for him to be doing. And I'm really, I'm really confident in that. All right, D.K., before we move on, let's take a quick break. We finally got around to trying Fandul, and we were shocked at how different it is. FanDuel means it when they say they have more ways to win.

And if you're not a fantasy expert, then Fandul is the best place to play. They have all kinds of contests just for casual fans, like beat the score contest, which are great because they pay out everyone who hits a certain score. So all you have to do is finish in the money, and you get a split and equal share of the cash. Fandul also has the new options for playing with your friends, because the only thing better than winning cash is winning your friend's cash. Fact.

Best of all, Fanduel is doing their part to make the preseason bearable with preseason fantasy contests running up to week one of the NFL. Right now, you can get a $10 bonus when you make your first deposit on Fanduel. Just sign up at fandul.com slash NFL. age and state restrictions apply. All right, D.K. This is really hard for me, DK. The Giants.

Yeah. So, okay, you're a Giants fan, born and bread. I, yes, and proudly. I'm still proud. Okay. Tell me, what the hell was, what was the Macadoo regime all about? What was the Macadoo era? How long do you have? It hurt. No, so everyone thinks it's like McAdoo had a funny haircut and like...

He did, yeah. And then he benched Eli and like, oh my God, what was going on? Eli's washed. No. So for starters, the last time the Giants scored 30 points in a football game, Marco Rubio was still running for president. So that's just, that's the perspective we're talking about here. So McAdoo came over originally as the offensive coordinator.

He came from Green Bay, where he was a quarterback coach for, you know, Aaron Rogers. and stuff, which is a pretty good gig. And he came in with actually the right idea. The Giants' offensive line was abysmal, and they were trying to be a run first team. And McAdoo was like, this is stupid. We got to be a West Coast pass first, and he brought the Packers' West Coast ideas. And he said, if you can't protect Eli long enough to get downfield and you can't run the ball,

you have to be a quick passing offense, gets the ball out as quick as possible. Right. And so that's really kind of the offense they became. And that kind of worked. The offense got better under him pretty quickly. But then Coughlin Retirees, he became head coach, and everything got way more predictable. Because he kept the coordinating job. He basically just added on being head coach, but he didn't really delegate that much of the coordinator job.

And the result was the offense suffered, and then also the locker room just completely deteriorated because he wasn't. You were saying that they became way more predictable? So they ran in 2016, his first year as coach and coordinator. They ran 90% of their formations out of 11 personnel, three receivers, one title one of rank. Yeah. 90. To put that in perspective, the league average was 60. 90% from the same personality every time.

They were actual players who joked, or sorry, during the 2017 season, there were players who joked that they needed to watch, they didn't need to watch film against the Giants. Entering the buy in week 8, the Giants running 11 personnel, 96% of the time. Oh my God, dude. So, which is, I mean, that means it was literally a statistical anomaly. for the 4% of plays that they were not running 11 personnel.

So you had players joking, they didn't watch film. Then their season was already over by that point. Then on top of that, your offensive line, your left tackle is Eric Flowers, who is awful. That did not help. Only topped by their right tackle, Bobby Hart, who of the 79 qualified tackles graded by pro football focus, Bobby Hart was 78th out of 79. This is reminding me of the Seahawks. Yeah, I know.

That's why it's not just the dannies that we have in common. But then on top of that, they're receivers. So they have the most predictable offense. They have maybe the worst two tackles in football. And then the week five against the Chargers, the Giants lost their number one, three, and four receivers when Odell, Beckham, Marshall, and Dwayne Harris got hurt all out for the year in the same game.

And in the same game, Sterling Shepard, who's their number two receiver, got hurt and was out for a month. So they lost their top four wide receivers in like 40 minutes of. game time. Yeah. And like, that's a perfect storm. That's every unit.

Also, the defense regress from number two in DVOA to 24th. Yeah, which still kind of baffles me, but yeah. But basically, everyone's like Eli Manning is washed, and I say, who could possibly have had a harder situation to succeed last year than the Giants and Eli Manning? So does that answer your question, Deke? That gives me a good sort of overview for sure. I think, yeah, I mean, it's number one.

I don't think ELA is necessarily washed. I don't think he's a good quarterback anymore necessarily, but I do think, and it goes back to what we talked about, the whole pot, is that scheme really freaking matters. And the NFL, like preparation and being unpredictable are so huge. I sent you a link from Dan Duggan at The Athletic, who wrote an article about Beckham,

and he's lining up in the slot more this year and that they're going to be a lot more multiple with the receivers. They're going to line guys up all over the place. And that's like so freaking logical and like so simple. But I think it could actually make a huge difference this year for the offense just because and then like we mentioned, it's just like harder to defend. It's like you have to prepare more. Schumer said himself, he said, if the receiver is only in one spot at a time, that player

is easier to defend. I'm speaking to the obvious. If you move them around, hopefully they've got to at least have some meetings and decide how they want to cover them. Like this is so basic. Like, think about how crazy this is. For all the time and hours they put in, patched the head coach of the Giants is like,

yeah, you know, they might have to have meetings a better off and stuff. Like, what a low bar. I can't even, oh, my God. No, but I think it does speak to just obvious things that McAdoo was missing, you know, and I think those things do matter. And so, like we talked about, you know, the scheme,

just being slightly more complex, man, it's going to help a lot, I think. So spinning forward now and kind of projecting what will change beyond just being complex, formations will change, but then how that actually affects the players. I'm interested in what you think, what Shermer will actually change, because I think it's a lot harder to decipher, you know. Right. Matt Nagy is a disciple of Andy Reid, and it's fair to say he's going to have a lot of read concepts.

The same with Matt LaFleur, that, you know, he's a disciple, Shanahan, and now, to a lesser extent, McVeigh, we're going to expect those concepts. Pat Shermer is completely different. Pat Shermer is 53, and he's been all over. the NFL. And he really, his whole brand, like his brand, his like bit is like he looks, does what, you know, what coaching should be, which is he looks at a roster and is like, hmm, I wonder what scheme is best for these

guys, which sounds simple, but like, doesn't always happen, which adds back to you first. So, I think it's really, as a Giants fan, the reason I like him as a hire is that he didn't be like, we're going to do this. He's like, I'm going to like, look at these guys' skill sets and decide, like, based on that. So we don't know 100%,

but we can look at the Vikings as an example of that where you saw case key names a gunslinger who throws 50-50 balls, but you have Adam Thielen and Stefan Diggs or two receivers who have such a big catch radius to 50-50 balls or really 70-30 balls. And the Vikings offense was basically, I like those odds. Yeah, I mean, both of those guys were, I think, among the league leader. I know that Diggs was for sure among the league leaders, if not the best in the NFL at contested catch rate. And so that's super helpful to a quarterback. I think, you know, obviously, and he took advantage of that, Schumer did. And in the way that he called plays

and the way that he utilized his quarterback. So when the Giants hired Pat Shermer, I was happy because he's a guy who's open-minded, and that's all I wanted this whole time, was a guy to look at it. I don't know if this is working. And that's what Pat Shermer, I'm confident, is going to do. He's going to have an offense that makes sense for the players,

which, oh, mind-bending stuff, but the Giants haven't had anything like that. So I'm excited for Shermer to build a system that makes sense for the team. Now, as for what that will look like, frankly, I don't know. Right. We can't pretend to know. Like literally that's what Shermer's quote is, right?

Like they're going to have to watch tape, and so will we. But I have some guesses. I think Sequan obviously is skilled enough that he'll be a three-down back. Shermer called him, Shermer compared him to Brian Westbrook, I think. That's, which is dope. Are you, how dare you, sir? Sayquod is so much better.

You just compared him to an eagle? Yeah, that's probably a bad idea. this division? I'm flustered. Anyway. I love the NFC East man. I hate you so much. Everyone hates each other so much. We're the only one where I think everyone really hates each other. Yeah. I hate, well, no, I don't hate Washington. Like old grudges. I've never cared about, I mean, disclosure, I used to work for the Washington Redskins and like I just still, they're the only team I could, I could never have worked for the Eagles. I can never work for the Cowboys because I hate them. Washington have always been indifferent toward because they're just,

you know, they've never had a problem anyway. Tangents. What do you think of the offensive line? Let's start there because that was a huge problem last year. Here's the, I think it, well, the line actually, you think, starts at the quarterback. Eli Manning gets a lot of crap for being washed. In reality, he's had a bad line, his whole career, or not his whole recent past.

This is going to be an Eli Manning apologist podcast? Yes, and it will, and here's why. The line is now better this year. They drafted Will Hernandez's second round, and everyone says that he's just like a mall, and he's going to be great. They've overpaid, rightfully so for Nate Solder, who's just average. and like, that's okay. We even had a fine left tackle in like eight years.

So I'm really excited to have a just okay left tackle. I get that. I get that 100%. Oh, I know you're a Seox fan. You wish. So they are going to have a better line. And then I think people will forget how good Eli is or just how smart he is if he actually has time to process.

Because he looks like he pets rabbits too hard, everyone thinks that Eli Manning is stupid. But in reality, he's one of the, he's a manning. He's one of the smarter players in the whole league, honestly. people forget how good he used to be in the two-minute drill and how good he, just, a lot of the interceptions he throws, look, yeah, some are stupid. A lot are just really calculated risks, but then he makes a stupid face and just throws his arms across like he's a kid who just got putting time out. And he's like, what did I do?

I didn't do anything. But I think Shermer, just the same way he looked at Keenham, and he really adopted Keenham's mentality. I'm really curious what he does with Manning, who is just a way more experienced football player. You know, it's no disrespect to Kay's Keenum, but Elon Manning's 10 years older. And he's just, he's seen some stuff. So I'm really excited for what the two of them kind of think about in terms of an offense that now has these playmakers. So when I see, it's not just them adding Sequin. It's also, they're adding back Beckham.

That's huge. Yeah, they're adding back Odell Beckham too. Like, they didn't have them last year. So within the context of getting those playmakers, it's not just that they're getting those guys. It's Eli Manning now will be able to go to Pat Shermer and they sat down together in a room and they're like, what do you want to do? And Eli Manning, for the first time in his life, we'll have talk. time, or not first time in like four years, we'll have time to breathe in the pocket

and actually gets to help design this offense along with him. And I'm just thrilled about that. And I actually really think that the Giants are going to do great stuff. I mean, I really like, I mean, obviously, we're not going to teach anybody the idea that O'Dell Beckham is good. Everyone knows that. I really like Sterling Shepard. I think he's solid, really solid.

And then Evan Ingram, I think, is kind of an X factor with this team, too. You know, you're reading a lot lately about how he's kind of been the star of camp. And he's a de facto receiver to me. I mean, he's not really a tight end. There's no really difference between him and Anquam Bolden. Like, he's, he's a slot receiver. Sometimes puts his hand in the dirt.

Yeah, but he's fast, though. Like, he ran a 4-4, I think. He's wonderful to watch. I will admit, I hated the draft pick when they made. I've never been right about Giants' draft pick ever. Literally, I've been wrong in every single one in the history of the Giants, including Evan Eggram, because I hated him when they drafted him, and I love him so much now.

But I think even if Odell isn't 100% the same guy, which I think he seems perfectly healthy, and there's no reason to think he isn't, but he could even take a step back, but there's so much more talent around him that if you think about how much you already have to game plan for him because you give him three yards of space and you can take a slant to the end zone.

But then you have Sequin running a wheel route on the other side, and then you have Angram, and then suddenly Sterling Shepherd can get isoed, or you have to iso Angram. The Giants have way more dilemmas. They can throw at, and that's really kind of one of the essence of modern football, right? It's just keep throwing dilemmas at the defense

and no matter what they pick, it's lose, lose. Now they actually have the means to do that with their pass catchers, but they also have a line that can actually let Eli process, and Eli's a really smart quarterback. He looks really dumb, but he's a really smart guy. And Pat Schumer is going to, unlike Macon, he's not going to get in the way of that. You know what I mean?

He's going to let all that cascade downward, and it's going to be great. I think I'm definitely not you, but I'm definitely more I'm more bullish on the Giants I think than a lot of people I think people forget how good I mean you know people know Beckham is good but they forget how he can literally take any pass

and turn it into a touchdown and now with you know like he said Shepherd around him Evan Ingram another year in the system and Barclay factor in the passing game and you know you've got kind of and even Cody Latimer former I think second rounder could have a factor this year

and I don't know, just if they can stay healthy and if they can kind of work out the rotation of these guys and use them all over the field, I don't know. I'm just kind of like, I'm really fascinated to watch this Giants' offense for the first time and forever. And to come back to the original point that Shermer made in that athletic piece,

which again, it's crazy to say out loud, but he's like, they're going to have to watch tape on us, which is wild. But so will we. And that's the thing. I don't want to pretend to know because we don't know what the Giants are going to do. But I think that just like opponents are,

we will too. and three or four weeks into the season is when we can start identifying trends who are they targeting in the red zone, what are they doing on third down? You know, what is the actual goal and how are they attacking certain defenses? And then I think after we kind of get a sense

of what they're really trying to do, I'm curious if they push actually downfield more. Then I think you're actually going to have trade targets for one. You know, maybe Engram is a by low candidate or Sterling Shepard will be or someone will be. And I'm curious, also if you're going to be able to pick up Cody Latimer

or someone on waivers. But that's a thing that I think it's going to be a month into the season because September is a weird month of football anyway. But you're going to be able to identify value with the Giants more so than other teams because they're harder to predict exactly how things are going to go.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to watching them, honestly. It's kind of weird. Yeah, I am absolutely pumped. Anyway, while I'm already just being absolutely ridiculous and stupidly biased on this, can I just make an additional case Odell and Sake 1. Yes.

This is fantasy football. And I will never forget owning Calvin Johnson in 2011 and 2012 and 2013. It's just fun. When you have the best player to position, when you have the unabashedly

most exciting player, the person that, like when Red Zone channel gets interrupted and like, oh, we got a player, we got to O'Dell Beckham just did this. Like, that's the best feeling in the world. Okay?

When he's on your team. At the end of the day, this is fun. The all-funn team. No one knows what's going to happen. You don't know if O'Dell Beckham will be better than Julio Jones this year, but I will say,

like no one knows, right? I will posit that it's more fun to own O'Dell, and now it will be more fun to own Sequant than anybody else at their positions. And if you are between them

and another player, always pick the player who just like, you'll smile whenever you hear their name. And any time they gallop through touchdown and they're going to lead

Sports Center, like, it's just fun. The fun tiebreaker I love that. Yeah, just like, I mean, I actually think this is actually even a little more true, actually, as you keep going down, especially when you're talking about the injury risks or like Deshawn Jackson's of the world that you don't want the guys that like kind of keep you up at night. You're like, I don't know who I'm going to start at Flex on this week and I have to set my lineup because it's a Thursday game. And like Deshaun Jackson's of the world always cost me sleep.

But like the other spectrum of that is the guys like Odell. Like there's, I cannot explain what it's like to own either the number, like the most exciting player in football. and that is Odell, and now it will be Seyquan. Highly recommend it. Wow, there you go. That was inspiring. But I'm a professional and very rational about the Giants. I'm not biased, though.

So thank you for listening. All right, D.K., I think that's all we got, right? Yeah, yeah, I think that's it for now. All right, awesome. Thank you so much, guys, for listening. We appreciate it. This was fun. I'm glad I finally got to rant about the Giants

because I don't do that more than just four or five times a week. You got me sort of excited about them. That's saying something. It's progress. It's great. Thank you. Thanks, D.K. And thank you to everyone who listened. And have a great week. FanDuel means it when they say they have more ways to win. They have all kinds of contests just for casual fans. Like beat the score contests, which are great because they pay

out everyone who hits a certain score. And they have tons of new options for playing with your friends. Best of all, Fan Duel is doing their part to make the preseason bearable with preseason fantasy contests running up to week one of the NFL. Right now, you can get $10 bonus when you make your first deposit on Fan Duel. Just sign up at fanduil.com slash NFL. Age and state restrictions apply.