The Ringer NFL Show - How to Improve the NFC’s Non-Playoff Teams

Episode Date: April 12, 2023

Nora and Steven return to break down how the non-playoff teams of the NFC can improve through the draft and free agency. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did your favorite NFL team win the Super Bowl? No? Then the NFL draft is your Super Bowl. I'm Danny Haifitz, and for now until the draft, we are turning our fantasy football show feed into the Ringer NFL draft show. Every Tuesday and Thursday, we talk about the top players and most important storylines for the NFL draft. So join us on the Ringer NFL show. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NFL show.

I'm Nora Pinciotti. I am here on a Wednesday, Wednesday afternoon, April 12th with Stephen Ruiz. Stephen, you're like decked out in Nike right now. our listeners can't see it. Did you see air? Like, what's, what's this branding thing going on? That's right.

I watched air and I got inspired. Wow. No free ads. No, I'm not seen air. I've not seen air. I'm just, I'm just a Nike supporter. I don't know.

Love it. Love it. Well, we will, I was going to say just do it, but I think I need to stop giving Nike free ads. But they know where to find us. But what we are going to do today is continue our team needs series. Moving over to the.

NFC and starting with the teams that did not make the playoffs last year. But this is an optimistic look, right? This is like what they need to vault themselves into a better position in 2023 and beyond. So let's just kick it off. We're going to start with the Chicago Bears, former possessors of the number one overall pick. But by trading down, they pretty much declare that they are not in the market for a quarterback. It is Justin Fields' team, which means that they need to build it up around them,

around him. Stephen, what did you have for the Bears' needs? I have offensive tackle at the top of the list. I don't think that's a surprise to anyone. They got good play out of fifth round pick Braxton Jones last year at left tackle. And that kind of complicates things just because if you're drafting one of the top prospects in this draft, you are expected to draft a left tackle. And then that creates a conversation. What do you do with Jones? What do you do with the guy you drafted? So, I think that's the conversation, but I still think even after the DJ Moore trade, that wide receiver has to be near the top of the list also.

Because beyond DJ Moore, you don't really have a lot that's proven. Like Chase Claypool had that good rookie year that was mostly inflated by his touchdowns, but he never really put it together as a well-rounded receiver. And then when he got traded to Chicago, he made almost no impact after that trade. So I don't think you can bank on him even being a reliable number two in this offense. So then Velaus Jones, there's, I mean, the jury's still out on him. DJ Moore, while I think he's a pretty good wide receiver one, I don't think he's like that top of the line wide receiver one.

He's not like an elite guy who's going to elevate a receiving core. So I'm not sure they have done enough to build around Justin Fields just yet. And I'm not saying they should be ahead of the rebuild plan at this point. But even when accounting for the fact that Ryan Poles basically started over, you don't have the greatest supporting cast around Justin Fields. And I still don't even think it's fair to say that this is a supporting cast where you could fairly evaluate him. If he does struggle and maybe he just puts up below league average numbers, I don't think you could totally pin that on him.

I think you have to still account for this supporting cast. But luckily, they have a bunch of picks. Like half of their picks are from other teams. Yeah. Yeah. So they have a chance to add a lot of pieces. I don't think it's going to help them this year. year. I think we tend to overweight the impact that rookies have on a team in their first year.

But this is a draft where you could build a solid foundation for 2024, 2025. And if Justin Fields isn't that guy, if he has a terrible year next year and he makes it obvious that you need to move on, I think they're still in a good spot. So I don't think it's necessarily building around Justin Field, but I think it's just building up that supporting cast until they get a quarterback that they feel comfortable giving $200 million. Right. I mean, they need to hit on those four premium picks, which obviously is a lot easier said than done. But they're starting from not a great position in terms of the overall strength of the roster. So most teams that succeed in this type of rebuild, they have one or two draft classes that really put them ahead of the curve.

And Chicago needs that. I'm very much with you with tackle. Particularly if it sounds like the plan is for Tavon Jenkins to play. play guard next season, which definitely means that they should be in the tackle market. I know there's so many mocks that have Peter Skoronsky as a top target for them. And there's some variability about whether he ends up being a tackler or a guard at the NFL level. And I think they have a little bit of a matching question in terms of where their needs are. I also think center, less of a premium position, obviously. but I think the roster right now

is Lucas Patrick, Doug Kramer, and Cody White here. And obviously, you know, I think it would be a little friendlier to the team if you added a name to that bunch. But they are one of those teams where, you know, as with a lot of the non-playoff teams, the nice way to say it is you can go best player available

because cornerback, right? Jail and John. Johnson, Kyler Gordon, Kindle-Vildor. Like, they did draft defensive backs with their first two picks last season, which was Gordon and Jaquan Brisker. But I think you can still definitely add their defensive line.

They only had 20 sacks as a team last year. You could definitely use another three-tick in there, especially for the Matt Eberfluse defense as they're still continuing to sort of transition their roster to that. So they could go anywhere, but I agree with you, especially just because all eyes are, on fields, the offensive line, and continuing to build in that receiver room, I think,

should be priorities. Did you see the video? It's like a team-produced draft video, like a behind-the-scenes draft video. And there's like some screenshots floating around. And one of them is from, I guess, the analytics director or something. And it's like a PowerPoint slide. And it has like something called an A score. I guess it's like their athletic score.

And there are a bunch of components. It's like height, weight, three cone, 40, et cetera. And then it points, there's an arrow pointing to a cylinder that just says analytics. And then there's an arrow from that pointing to the A score. And I think that's how like a lot of NFL teams like view analytics. They're just like, you just put a bunch of numbers into the analytics cylinder and you get a number and it tells you what to do. Like remember when you were in like elementary school math and they tried to teach functions and it always had some sort of like, there's an arrow. And then it goes through the function and the function is like a train.

And like, that's what that's, that energy. No, I did not see that. That's hysterical. It's not even like a quality image. It's like the default cylinder you draw on PowerPoint. Like, it's like a pale orange. It's like the default Microsoft orange. It's not even the Bears orange.

This terrible graphics work. Wow. Wow. Graphic design, not the Bears passion. The analytic cylinder will bring them where they need to go. Just follow the cylinder. What happens inside of the analytic cylinder? Who knows?

Analytic cylinder feels like a good garage band name. You have to subscribe to PFF to know, to figure out the secrets of the cylinder. PFF should do like the stupid Twitter thing of changing their logo to the doge. PFF should just change all their logos to the analytic cylinder. Yes, yes. When I run PFF, that's what's going to happen.

And I'm going to get rid of quarterback rates. I'm just doing this because Austin, who used to work at PFF is listening in. He's trying so hard not to just like jump onto this recording and mount a vocal defense of the analytic cylinder. All right. Out of the analytic cylinder and into the Cardinals that made absolutely no sounds, but we're just going to roll with it. Unless you have any remaining bear's takes, Stephen. No, no, none.

All right, Arizona. I have draft capital as the first. need for the Cardinals because this roster is in a bad way. I know we just spent like five minutes kind of subtly negging the Bears for not really being ready to compete and not having built enough around Justin Fields. The state of the Bears roster and the state of the Cardinals roster are like two really different situations, which I think should tell you something about the Cardinals roster. and they are not only bad, they are bad and old,

which is like the worst possible combination you can have for the state of your roster building. They were the seventh oldest team in the league and second oldest on offense by a snap weighted age last season. And I, oh yeah, I have this in my notes. I did this on Monday, so I'm sort of like, I forget what I thought about. If we exclude Kyla because he's hurt,

and if we predict that Diadre Hopkins does get traded, who's the Cardinals best player? Is it Buda Baker? That's literally what my notes say. Is it Buda Baker? Question mark. Because it feels like no offense to Buda Baker, who's a contributing good player.

It feels wrong that it should be Buda Baker. But I think it's Buda Baker. It's bad. Yeah. Like Hollywood Brown is on that Mount Rushmore at least, which is pretty bad. It's like Buda Baker, James Connor,

Hollywood Brown and like like Kyler if he's not hurt and I guess that just goes to show that the 2014 All-Stars strategy which seems to be their free agency tactic like three years ago isn't the most sound in the long run so they've got a new GM

JJ Watts retired and is going to Taylor Swift concerts now. They seem like a shoe in to trade the number three pick, obviously. There was the Shepter tweet earlier this week that at least six teams have called and that the Cardinals are mulling. I'm sure they're mulling pretty hard. If I were

Monty in this position, it would just be collect as many picks and get as much capital and just take as many shots at the Dartmoort as you possibly can because you have to get younger. You have to get younger basically everywhere, and you have to get better, and you have to just sort of look at this as a total rebuild. Yeah, and there was the report. I think it was from Adam Schafter that six teams have called about trading up to number three.

And I'm assuming that that information came from the Cardinals, and it's the Cardinals saying, hey, we're open for business. And we really want to trade out. Why don't we make it seven? Let's make it eight. Yeah, zero and ten, like ten. Why not? Everyone should be calling them.

But, yeah, this team, like even the best players on the team, Kyler, even. You can't even be optimistic about him. He's like 5'8 injury prone, maybe likes video games more than he likes football and has like a contentious relationship with the team. Like that's your best player. It's a bad.

Just like move from Arizona, change your team name, change the uniform, change the owner. Like they're in need of a lot. They're in need of a lot. Apparently they need better facilities too. And they need like a daycare system. They need a lot. Can you trade draft capital for,

can you trade that third pick? for like a nanny you can watch the player's kids when they're practicing. Daycare and some dinner vouchers. Yeah. They could do literally anything. Again, having that pick, I think, is a big deal for them. Also, we kind of assume based on Kyler's health that next year's draft, they're going to have a lot of capital as well.

They'll probably have a very high pick there too. it is a weird situation to be in just because presumably, although it feels very possible that Kyler is not going to be there for the long term, given how much that's soured and given the questions about his health. But it's a little bit odd because we are looking at this team that just a couple years ago is like, okay, they've got the quarterback. It's time to get in as much talent as possible. And now it's like, well, they have to be in full roster rebuild

because the roster is maybe the worst in the league. They also might be looking for a new quarterback, but they also might not because they did an extension. And, you know, I don't know where he ends up falling in the top half of the league, but he's still a talented guy who you can see them under better circumstances being able to win with. So the best thing you can say is that it's sort of a blank campus. People don't really have a great sense of what Montaioz and Fort's sort of tendencies as a GM are going to be. there's that sort of air of Belichekian Patriots

mystery. But the one thing that we know is that he's certainly been in a lot of draft rooms where trading down has happened. So not only with the number three pick, but I think in general, it's reasonable to see them just collecting. Just gather.

Just get those resources. It's sort of not worth being like, well, you need a better pass rush because you do, but you also need better linebackers, you need better cornerbacks, you need better receivers, you need better everything.

Yeah, I don't even see the benefit of dropping whoever would be the number three pick into this roster in 2020. I don't even think it like helps you at all. I don't know if this quote was real. I'm pretty sure it was fake, but there's this story about Robin Lopez,

he's a NBA player, showing up to the Bulls practice. The Bulls had a bad team. He's like, oh, no, I'm the best. player here. I feel like that's what the third overall pick would feel like

when he stepped foot on the practice field in Arizona. I'm pretty sure it was a fake quote, but it's very, pretty funny. I don't know.

Robin Lopez is like, doesn't he hate mascots? Yeah, he fights mascots. I can see him saying that. Okay. Yeah. There's like, if they pick at number three

because here's the other thing, you can be wrong about the number three pick. It happens. Jeff Okuda just got traded. Like, it's entirely possible to miss and just have that guy, like even if he doesn't bust out, just be kind of mid. And if that happens, you have so royally screwed yourselves by being like,

no, no, we know. We've got this guy's going to be an impact player. First of all, he's not because there's just, the season is not going to be a good one. We call that a Blake Bortles. That's a Blake Bordle situation. I think he was the number two picked, it happens.

All right. The Rams. Did you know that the Rams do not have a specialist on their roster? Yeah, I saw that. I saw Nate Tice tweeted that out. And apparently a lot of Rams fans were very upset about the fact that he tweeted that out.

So Matt Gay, their kicker, got $22 million over four years from the Colts to go beat their kicker. So first of all, get that back. Riley Dixon was the punter. He plays for the Broncos now. And then long snapper, Matthew Orzetch, O-R-Z-E-C-H. I'm going to be honest, I've never said that guy's name in my entire life.

He went to the Packers for three years and 3.6 million. So it's not just that they're not on the team anymore. Like these were apparently sort of high-demand players for their positions. Just a fascinating situation. So I'm not saying they need to address that through the draft But or at all high up in the draft But at some point You're going to have to get someone for kicks and punts

On the roster there, Mr. Sneed Because you're going to be doing a lot of punning You're going to need a punter They also don't have a backup quarterback. John Wilford hasn't signed anywhere so maybe they do something there and they're sort of in a tough cap spot so that could be just like waiting that out.

But like Matthew Stafford doesn't have a shoulder. You don't have a backup quarterback on your roster and you also don't have someone for field goals or extra points or punts. Like this is not great. They are another team that I think needs everything.

Just draft capital. You're going to need cheap players. You're going to need to fill out that roster. they obviously lost a lot more than they gained in free agency just because of their cap situation and the way they've built that team. They have traded seven first rounders in a row, including this year's first, so they don't pick until the second round.

But trade down. They've gotten starters in the third and fourth rounds before. Actually, with some regularity, and that's helped them flesh out the rest of that team. team around the stars who are making millions and millions and millions of dollars. So they're going to have to try to do it again. That's sort of all I've got. The good news is they have 11 picks in this trap.

The bad news is that eight of them come after pick 166. Yep. So they're going to be drafting a lot of special teamers. So, I mean, that's one need they're going to be able to fill. Unfortunately, like, you can look at every position on the roster and say that there's a need there. Like, even defensive tackle because you have to won Aaron Donald. And maybe this was like a...

has publicly pondered retirement for like two years? Right. So, and you just traded Jalen Ramsey. Like all of a sudden, this star-studded roster is no longer a star-studded roster. Even like wide receiver, you have Cooper Cup, but what do you have behind Cooper Cup? And like you said, you have Matt Stafford, but he's probably on the decline and you have nothing behind him. So you could make the argument that every position on the roster needs to be addressed. They're not doing the draft house there again, are they?

They need something more formidable. I don't know. That would be so funny if they just go in like some $30 million dollar Hollywood Hills poolside ridiculous glass mansion and just make seventh round picks. Just draft a punner with pick 227. I would absolutely love to see them turn that into hashtag content. And you know, like, NFL teams probably celebrate, like, their seventh round picks just as much as they, like, celebrate, like, a premium pick.

They probably, like, like, McVeigh would, like, shake less knee-tanned. Like, we got our punter for the future. No, no, I completely disagree with that. That would make me feel better about the Rams. McVey would be, like, sitting on a sofa, the look of existential dread dripping from every pore in his body. And less need would be like, yeah, man, like this punter. and just trying to make it something and everyone would be like,

what are we doing here? The draft, you don't do the draft house when you don't have a first round pick. I know they've done it in the past and they've never had a first round pick, but like what are you even doing it on Thursday? What does the draft house look like on a Thursday night during draft season?

Like, just partying? Yeah. Like everyone who works for the Rams hanging out. The problem is, you see, the Cardinals problem is they treat every night during draft like probably like that. Maybe that's why they moved on from Cliff. I mean,

they've never like they haven't had when they've done it they haven't had first round round picks to work where they haven't had a first round pick in seven years um it doesn't look like they're doing it that's sad that's sad to me still time to like we got two weeks until this happens come on they couldn't afford a long snappers so maybe that's why maybe they're cutting back all right uh we're going to move on to the falcons next but first we are going to take a short break All right, Atlanta, which made a little bit of news yesterday by trading a fifth round pick to the Lions for Jeff Okuda, which I thought was an awesome trade. Yeah, I think that trade makes a lot of sense. They have Ryan Nielsen who comes over from the Saints staff.

Obviously, there's a bit of a connection with Akuta having played under Aaron Glenn. Aaron Glenn got his coaching start in New Orleans, kind of cut his teeth as a defensive coordinator there or defensive assistant there. So there's a seamless transition scheme-wise. And then this off-season, they've signed a lot of former Saints players. So you can kind of see them trying to build the defense that Dennis Allen had built in New Orleans. And I don't hate that idea. I think it's a good idea. I like that defense.

I think it was a sound defensive. Nielsen is as good as Allen was as a D.C. I think they have a chance to have a league average defense in maybe a year or two. And then it's hard to pick needs for this team because you look at, the roster and you're like, oh, they have solid players at every spot. I still think they need an edge rusher. It seems like that's been a need for 20 years now. I think they could use another wide receiver, some more speed, maybe, a field stretcher to go to pair with Drake London, who I really like a lot. And then you obviously have Kyle Pitts. I think you can do some interesting

things with that skill group. And then you throw Arthur Smith's offense on top of that. And this could be a team that wins the NFC South. I really think that this might be the best team in the NFC South when the dust settles in August and we get closer to kickoff. But Edge and wide receiver at the top of my list for this team. I would throw quarterback on there too, but I mean, I like Ritter. I don't know if he's the long-term answer. I know Atlanta is at least interested in quarterback. I have that third on my list, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's at the top of their

list. I don't know how they feel about Ritter, but it seems like they like them. It seems like they're committed to trying that out. I don't, I wouldn't, I like Ritter. I just, I think they have a chance to get someone more exciting with a lot more upside. And my philosophy would be that you do that when you have the opportunity. I still, they to me are the team that is hurting themselves the most by not being involved with Lamar. Obviously they're not doing that.

But that still will go down in history as like the number of wins lost, I feel like is the most for them just because of how they, want to play what he would mean under Arthur Smith with that group of skill guys. But again, it just doesn't seem like they're going there. Doesn't seem like they agree. So within that context, I think it's defense. It is a funny thing where you look at the roster and you go, okay, like, there's some players here. It's not half bad.

But they have really, really, really struggled to get pressure and to convert what pressure they do get to sacks. So edge rusher in particular, I think, would be high up there. They did add plays Campbell, which I think was a nice signing at defensive tackle. And, you know, the Okuda thing is a little bit of a flyer, but their cornerback room, AJ Terrell, Casey Hayward and Mike Hughes, Hayward, obviously being 33 years old, I love being able to add someone who was a high pick. and for whom

part of why he's underperformed at least has to do with the injury stuff, maybe you hit there. And hitting doesn't necessarily mean something that feels like, yeah, this is what, if you take a player third overall, this is what you imagine for him.

If he's a solid starter, that's a huge win for them and they need more depth there. You can really keep going every level of the defense, I think, just like, someone who isn't, impactful player. Someone who you feel like

it's Monday and your next opponent in their offensive meeting room, they're circling whoever it is. Because I just don't think that they have that. And again, it's not... I think sometimes we think of the Falcons defense as like totally, totally toothless. It's not that bad. They just don't have anyone who scares you. So I would love if and I don't know if they end up picking a date

or if they would be a candidate to maybe move down. I don't know if they would be able to find a partner for that. But I just hope it's someone who feels impactful. Because I think if they had sort of an elevator, a difference maker, someone who opponents feel like they have to scheme to, all of a sudden we would start going, oh, Caden Ellis is not half bad, you know?

Like there's some players here. Grady Jarrett's still making you know not the impact that he always had although how is Brady Jared only 29 years old? He's been in the league for 15 years. He feels like he's 100 years old to me. I was like oh God, got to prepare for when Grady Jarrett retires and then I looked at him

and it's like he's 29. That's crazy. The one thing I wouldn't do if they do stay at 8 is draft a running back. I've seen B. John Robinson it's been a popular mock draft pick for them. I really don't understand. how that would push this team forward development-wise.

I don't think this would make that. It seems like they're trying to build the 2019-2020-2020 Titans offense again. I think Litter is basically Ryan Tannahill White, Ryan Tannihill 2.0. And I think Arthur Smith might want a Derek Henry and Robinson, although not a similar skill set, I do think he's that type of impact player at that position. And I just, that's a luxury pick. I don't think it's a pick you should ever make a running back in the top 10. Maybe Robinson is the exception.

But if you're the Falcons, you went 7 to 10 last year. I think it was a lucky 7 and 10. If you look at the other stats, if you look at like efficiency and DVOA, they were not that good of a team. So I think they're a little further away where they're not at the point where they can be picking a running back in the first round. I like the idea of trading down and just trying to attack that defense. you hired Arthur Smith for a reason.

You hired him because you believe that he can make the offense into something better than, you know, the sum of its parts. And I tend to look at Arthur Smith as that type of coach. So if I'm Terry Fontno, the GM, I'm looking to make this defense better. I'm looking to at least get to a point where we're a top 16 defense. That's all you need. And then if the offense comes along like you think, like if Ritter is that guy, if Drake London takes another step forward, if Pitts finally has that breakout year, then I think this is like a playoff. team and a team that maybe could win a game in the playoffs. But if you take a running back and it

doesn't work out and like, I don't know what this team is. Even if, even if Ritter is a little better than we think he's going to be, even if London does take that step, it's still a tremendously, it's not tremendously flawed, but it's a, it's a mid-raster. You need to, you need to take a step forward. I like what you said. I think you need difference makers. And maybe, maybe you do need to stay at eight to get that difference maker, but I think you just throw a bunch of darts at the dartboard with defense, that's the way, that's the smart way it seems to do it and just hope that, you know, maybe a guy at the bottom of the first round turns into that star player. We've seen that happen a bunch over the last five years.

Totally. I am with you that even though, like, the idea of Bejohn Robinson in this offense is really cool to think about and really fun. But I would be upset if they did it at eight. Just because I think there's a little bit, like it's a little bit of a parallel to the Greg Roman offense with, Mar Jackson is like, it feels like it makes sense to be like, oh, my God, amazing run game. Let's focus on this because we have such a high floor and so much ability there. And then you see it in practice and go, oh, this was going to be good no matter what. And now we're neglecting all of these other things that aren't automatically functional and successful.

under Arthur Smith in this offense, and particularly, like, they spent most of their free agency period focusing on shoring up that offensive line for the future. They extended Lindstrom and re-signed Caleb McGarry. Obviously, those were players who were in-house. But, like, that was where the bulk of their resources went in the free agency period. With that, and that line is pretty good with, I think, the amount of attention that you're field position guys are going to take away and how hard that offense really truly can be to defend. And I think even with, you know, quarterbacked by Desmond Ritter, that's, that's their

capability. And then given what Arthur Smith wants to do, they will be able to run the ball. You don't need to draft Bjean Robinson to have the run game that you want to have. And Derek Henry, peak Derek Henry for the Titans, made that team go in a way, in special, special ways. That said, we would see it time and again when he was hurt that it didn't necessarily mean that their offense was the most efficient that it could possibly be when they were focusing on

him running the ball and just like pounding their opponents. Because sometimes passing the ball is just more efficient and when their line was good, their backups were performing pretty well in the running game too. And now, like,

I am very willing to, accept that there was just a Derek Henry Titans thing that mattered. And not all of the numbers tell us quite how much it mattered. And we just, we, we could see it with our eyes and hear people talk about it. And we just have to accept that there was a little bit of that that was absolutely true and really, really important to them. But first of all, we're talking about a very different player. And second of all, I'm not sure that it was, it was in a different situation, the type of thing that would ever be worth the investment required to get there. So it's very fun to think about, but don't do it.

Also, sometimes it's third and eight. Sometimes it's third and eighth. True. Do you get that from the analytics cylinder? Yeah, I did, actually. It just spit it out. I'm seeing it like a magic eight ball and it's just like, sometimes it's third and eight, man.

What's you going to do about it? But yeah, but I think like that's kind of the problem with the Ravens model. And I think you could see if they drafted. Yeah, that sometimes it's third and eight and you're like, oh, Patrick Ricard is on the field still and it's third and eight.

What do we do? Like that's the problem with billing around it. My analogy was like, and I'm using Greg Roman, because I don't want to like accuse Arthur Smith of doing this quite yet. But if they draft Robinson, I think it's fair to do. But it's like you're you're cooking dinner.

And you spend all your money on the appetite. and then the entree sucks. And that's what the Ravens did. They had fullbacks and tight ends and all these guys for first and second down, but sometimes it's third and eight. Sometimes it's tight for your main course. Yeah, and they can't cook up a main course.

And I think the Falcons, they aren't there yet because they have some receivers who can definitely win in those situations. Their problem is they don't necessarily have the quarterback yet. And I think they still need to add more pieces to the offense to be able to get to a point where if they get into a drop-back passing game,

they can be fine. And I don't think the solution to that is draft running back. I think the solution to that is keep building up this core of pass catchers and keep strengthening the offensive line. I'm curious if they will draft receiver anywhere remotely high, just because, as we know, it's a small class. It's a physically diminutive class, and this team wants large players.

So I wonder if they might be particularly low on some of those guys. My thought is just go defense. Just like, and obviously you see how the board falls. If I were them, I would be trying to trade back for mate. I do think that that might be a little bit of a tough position because of all, like, you figure all the quarterbacks are probably gone, um, other than maybe Levis, depending on where that goes, but it's a little bit of a wild part.

And then given that it seems like the league is, is fairly low on this draft. There's probably a lot of teams that are interested in trading back and fewer that are interested in moving up. But you never know how the board falls. It's always good to get more picks. But if the Falcons come away from this

with an impact player on defense, I think that's, to me, that's a win. Yeah, same. All right. Are we still pounding? Always. We never stop. Panther's time.

DJ Moore stopped pounding. That's true. Now he's in the cylinder. He's got to the cylinder. What do you, as our Resident Panthers fans, David, you got to kick us off here. I mean, obviously, quarterbacks at the top of the list, and they're obviously going to take a quarterback with the number one pick. It seems like it's going to be Bryce Young.

The betting markets seem to think it's going to be Bryce Young. I'm not so excited about that pick. I really like Bryce Young's game, but I can't get around the fact that he's 5'10. And you know, when you're 5'5 foot 9, it's hard to play quarterback in the NFL. We've never seen a 5'8 quarterback ever have success.

And I don't know if this 5'7 quarterback is going to be the one that does it. If they don't draft Bryce Young, if it ends up being Stroud, and this was all a smokescreen, are you going to be annoyed or impressed? I would be impressed. I was actually thinking about this.

I'm glad you asked that. I would be very impressed if the pick does end up not being Bryce Young, that they put out this, this effort to create this smokescreen. And it actually worked. I would be very impressed because I think that's what you have to do when you're in this position. I know they had to trade up to get to this position.

But when you're there, I think you at least have to play the game. You got to lie. Yeah, you got to throw some lies out there. Try to get the Texans maybe to trade up with you. I think that's one of the theories people are throwing out there. I personally hope that Anthony Richardson is a Panther. I think that's the guy that gives them the best chance at finding someone who can help you compete with Patrick Mahomes.

and Justin Herbert and Josh Allen and even Joe Burrow. Like my comp for Bryce Young is a tiny Joe Burrow. And I don't mean he's as good as Joe Burrow, because I don't think he's that type of prospect. I think if you put Joe Burrow in a 5-foot-five frame, I'm taking an inch off every time. By the end of this podcast, he's going to be 4-11. If you put him in that frame, I think that's exactly how he would play.

Like you see the feel for the game. A lot of people have compared him to a point guard. And I like that comparison. he finds space he finds throwing lanes but every like this is how I when I watch his film there's like three great plays in a row and you're like holy shit this guy's amazing and then the next play he reminds you that he's he's 510 like he looks small and my concern is that the proportions are going to change at the next level like it's not going to be once every four plays he looks small I think it's going to be like twice every four plays he might look a little

small and that's my concern and then the injuries like he Kyler Murray, after, I loved Kyler Murray. I thought Kyler Murray was one of the best quarterback prospects I've ever seen. And the Kyler Murray NFL experience has kind of changed my mind on that. And I can't do small quarterbacks again. Maybe Bryce Young changes my mind again. But

when he gets hit, he gets hit. He like flies back like three feet. It's, it's a concern and it should be a concern. This is a game dominated by big, strong, fast people. And I think what, I think Young is

kind of fast, but I don't think he, I mean, he's obviously not big, but I don't think he has like the strongest arm. And I think we're seeing people kind of embellish his other traits to make up for the fact that he's small. Like I've seen the Steph Curry comparison, which doesn't make any sense to me because Steph Curry is, he's the greatest three-point shooter ever. What is Bryce Young the greatest ever? He's not the greatest thrower. Because if that's the comparison, then what is Patrick Mahomes? He's some three-point shooter we've never seen before. I don't know. I don't think the traits are necessarily there to justify drafting a quarterback,

an outwire in terms of size like that. Also, there's not that many like 320 pound NBA players. That's a good point. And they don't guard you. Like they don't, right, they don't run into you and try to throw you to the ground on a regular game. That's not the point. That's not like the point of playing defense in the NBA

is not to like, grab Steph Curry by the legs and fling him to the ground. And inflict pain on him. Like they're trying to hurt the quarterback. It just feels like I get why people make for comparison. And it's like, I know I'd be a little bit facetious, but it's just like they're not trying to hurt him in the same way

that they will try to hurt Bryce Young. And it's not just that he's five but three. It's that he's 200 pounds. Yeah. That's mean. I shouldn't have taken another inch off there when I was in combination with the weight because 5'0.3, 200 doesn't be a very odd. An oddly shaped human.

Yes. But I do think Young is going to end up being the pig. It seems like Tepper really likes them. And Tepper is, I don't want to say he's meddling, but it seems like he's a meddling owner at this point. He's going down that track, at least. There's still time for him to turn it around. But I really think, like, if they take Young

or if they take any of these quarterbacks and it doesn't work out, Like it, and when I say it doesn't work out of me like Trevor Lawrence year one, where there's still a chance you can turn around, but it looks pretty ugly early. And the coaching staff doesn't inspire confidence. Fans are going to turn on Tepper. I think they're close to being there already with everything that's gone on with like the training facility, how he's handled the MLS team. It's kind of been chaotic.

So this is a big pick for this team and this franchise and their relationship with the fan base. There's a lot riding on it. and it looks like it's going to be a five-foot-three quarterback who weighs 190 pounds. On the plus side, whoever the pick is, is going into a situation that is shockingly good for a first-round pick. Yeah. I mean, so it's certainly better than what Trevor Lawrence had with the Jaguars. I think it's definitely, you know, Burroughs situation,

better fairly quickly, but it's definitely better than what Burrow had immediately in Cincinnati. It's definitely better than what Kyler had. Baker with the Browns, golf with the... It's hard to go back on the list and be like, oh, the team that had the number one pick and used it on a quarterback dropped that guy into this good of a situation this quickly, particularly when you think about the quality of the offensive line. skill positions could be better. They could obviously keep adding there.

I do think they need to replace more in a capacity beyond Adam Thielen and DJ Chark. But it still looks like a very confident safe landing spot for a number one overall pick. And I know our colleague Danny Hypertz loves to talk about this. When you go down the list of highly, highly, drafted quarterbacks who end up having good careers. What strikes you much more than what it says about the individual player

is what the landing spot was and what the situation they were put into is. So if I were looking for optimism for the Panthers, it's certainly that. Even if it is Bryce Young, I am with you. I would be I would not want to make that pick. I would not want to be the general

manager who makes that pick. But if the owner really, really wants it, and I agree with you, it does seem like Tepper is involved, you sort of have to do it. And at least you can feel good about the situation that he's going into. Beyond quarterback

and beyond finding another receiver after trading more, I think for all the excitement around their defense, they could still, they could get better at corner opposite J.C. Horde. I think their nickel position right now is Jeremy Chin sort of being like a big nickel,

but I don't think that you would mind having a more traditional slot corner depending on what your matchup is and someone who's a little bit higher ability there. I think they're going through a little bit of a transition. I think Fitterer's hinted that they're kind of moving to a little bit of a hybrid front, but more of a three, four base,

which moves Brian Burns from defense event outside linebacker. So I think if you wanted a bookend, And for him on the other side of that, that would also be pretty important if they're going to be doing a lot more of that. Defense is young. It's pretty talented,

but you just want to keep stocking the cupboard. Yeah, I think you really need to build up the defensive line for this type of defense. We've seen, like, the Fangio style of defense really have success when you have a stout defensive line that can hold up in the run game on its own. That could play a gap and a half at a time. And I think they need a couple more players to be able to do that.

They've obviously invested in the defensive line over the last couple of years over the last couple of drafts. But that's one of those positions where you have to constantly restock it. And I agree, like, you need versatility at that nickel spot. We've seen in the system, like we've seen other players man that spot. Like Jaylen Ramsey, for instance,

sometimes you play on the outside, sometimes you play on the inside, depending on the matchup, like you said. So I do think they need another guy there. I would put tight end at the top of the list on the skill group. The skill group needs, they need a running back. They need, I think they need at least two more wide receivers. I like the chart signing. The Thielen signing is

whatever, like he hasn't really been that player for two years. I don't expect that to bounce back in Carolina. But they have a good coaching staff. They have a good offensive line. And I think that's the foundation for a quarterback. And as long as you hit on that quarterback, the rest of the stuff will fall into place. Like, I totally agree with high fits that it's, a lot of it is about where you land. But I also think there's like a chicken or egg situation there where like good quarterbacks are going to make situations look better on their own. like we saw Patrick Mahomes do this last year.

So you really need to hit on that quarterback. That's obvious, but if you don't land that pick, anything else you do in this draft really doesn't matter. They have 26 million in cap space right now, according to over the cap. Usually to sign your picks and round out your roster, deal with all of that stuff, it's like a little over 20 million.

So that's not a ton of wiggle room. But one thing that I hadn't realized is that, But Matt Ionitis is still not signed, which if you can resign him, like, that's a quality defensive lineman. That's a guy who's played a lot of snaps for you and done a pretty good job. So I wonder if that's just a financial thing or if he's still poking around and seeing if there's more in the market. But if they could bring him back, just to continue to have numbers on the defensive line there, as you said, I think would be a bonus. Yeah. I know we're talking mostly about what they can do through the draft,

but he's got to be one of the better free agents still available. And if it's getting, particularly if you get after the draft, when teams feel even more so like they've filled their needs, you've got to imagine that that deal gets, if not cheap, team-friendly. I haven't looked at, at, where they could move money around, but, you know, the cap is fake. So. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the like benefits of the hire that they made at defensive coordinator is there's like a lot of overlap with with Evereaux scheme and Phil Snow scheme,

the last defensive coordinator. I think it's not like totally the same X and nose wise, but like body type wise. Yeah. They require the same type of guy. And like, Aonitis is like a perfect example of that. I think he would fit in well with it. All right. Speaking of the cat being fake, the saints. Cap is actually not fake because As evidence by the saints As evidenced by the fact that

Marcus Davenport Contavia's Street David on Yamada and Shy Tuttle four of the five leading defensemen by leading defensive linemen by snap count last season all gone. Goodbye.

Not in New Orleans anymore. It's like, the third year in a row where they've lost a lot of depth. And at a certain point, that takes a toll. I know there are some like recognizable names still here. Like you see Michael Thomas, you see Cameron Jordan. You see Ryan Ramchick. Like these are... Do you see Michael Thomas though? Because Michael Thomas is still hurt. Right. Like I, I watched his date from last year and it was not, it was concerning, to say the least. I really like Chris Olavé. I thought he was the best rookie receiver. I know he was never going to get rookie the year. But he was... I voted for it.

He was my vote. Well, you know, Ball. I can't say the same for the rest of the voters. But, like, Alvin Camara, how many years do these guys have? Derek Carr, even, I think, is a short-term solution to a problem that they're not going to solve with that sign. This team just confuses me. I don't know. Like, what do they think they are?

That's my question. It reminds me a lot of the Vikings, and the Vikings, maybe the Vikings are smarter than all of us because they went, what, 12 and 4? 12 and 5, whatever. They made the playoffs. They won their division and no one expected it. Maybe the Saints do the same. But I think the same as with last year's Viking team, there's a cap on that.

You can only go so far when you're kind of relying on a flawed roster and working around that. And I think the Saints are in the same place. And I've been saying it for like two years now. They need to rebuild. They haven't started that rebuild. And I don't think this offseason suggests that they're anywhere closer to starting. We should just

We could replay old Sand segments Right For an entire year Like it's just the same stuff They have Committed a lot of money Into the future

Which stops them from totally tearing it down But gradually The roster is being Shipped away at And they're losing a lot of the guys Who were playing a lot of snaps for them last year. The dam has to burst at some point.

They certainly have a lot of needs pretty much everywhere, but I think defensive line is becoming a very pressing situation because you're right. They lost a ton of guys this year, but it's also like that's been happening. I mean, obviously they had to let Hendrickson go to Cincinnati and the losses are becoming a collective issue there. a compliment to

A Lava would be great. There's so much that I that you're kind of like all right at least you can sort of patch it together there and whatever Taysam Hill is going to do is what Taysam Hill is going to do I'm not saying it's a good situation I'm just saying it's not the worst

it's not the worst thing on the roster um could use a corner upgrade opposite Lattimore yeah they need They need a lot. They need a lot. This is a team.

Like, I'm convinced that Mickey Loom is still They need an accountant. That's what they need. They need a sound financial planner. They need the rule of law. You know what they need? The analytic cylinder is what they need.

They need the analytic cylinder to come in and clean up the books. Yeah. I think offensive line is one of the places where young talent is good, but they've got a lot of money committed there with Ramchick, McCoy, Pete, and then Trevor Petting and Cesar Ruiz are on their rookie deals. But when that's over, you figure they feel good about those spots. So there's some places where it's like, all right, you know, and with Derek Carr, you want the protection to be decent. they still, because of that deal, managed to spend the second most money in free agency this year.

So see you next April when we have the exact same conversation. But it's just Nathan Shepard and Kaelin Saunders instead of Kandavia Street and David on even though. They're going to play a Monday night game in like November and it's going to be the saddest game we've ever watched. It's going to be like Saints Bucks Monday night, November. It's going to be the saddest game we've ever watched. You know what's going to be the funniest, though, is when they trade up. Is when they trade up in the draft. I can't wait for like the defensive line lineman reach of a traitcy guy who just like plays 20% of their defensive staff.

It's going to be electric. All right. Let's take another break and then come back for the Packers. All right. We are back. Green Bay. Brian Gutikunst. You have the operas.

to do the funniest thing possible. Do it. Do it. Do it for the bit. Commit to the bit. But do it because it's actually what you need. This team needs a receiver and a tight end more than they need anything else. I'm serious. Like, by the way, never drafting a first round receiver for Rogers. Actually a decent strategy when you have Aaron Rogers.

But it also means that they haven't done that and now they don't have Aaron Rogers. So it's time. It is time. He has like the best plausible denial. for not doing this out of pettiness, but the pettiness is the best part. I mean, yeah, it makes sense because the reason why you pay a quarterback like Aaron Rogers

is because you expect him to elevate what's around him. Now you don't have that. You don't have that luxury. You have to build around this team, and you've missed opportunities to do that over the last couple of drafts. You've decided to make picks that, I think you could frame as luxury picks

or just picks that I thought were a little small-minded. I'm thinking back to the draft where they did take love. And they take AJ Dillon, applauding running back who was going to be a backup from day one. They take Deguara, who was like an H-back-type full-back tight end, which made sense for their scheme. But I feel like making picks on day two

that only fit in your scheme doesn't make a lot of sense. Like you're not getting good value. Like who are you drafting him? Why are you drafting him there? And I think that's the problem with this team. That's the situation they're in right now where you look at this offensive roster. And even if you believe whatever hype we've heard about love, there's been a lot of talk about how the Packers really like him,

and he's been playing well that he really improved last year during practice. But this isn't a situation where even a developed young quarterback can thrive in. So I agree with you. I think this draft is all about putting pieces in place, maybe not for this year, but for next year. so you can go into 2024 a little more optimistic that this could be a team that can not only make the playoffs but maybe win a game.

Because right now, I don't think that's realistic. I think they went 8-9 last year. I think that's a realistic benchmark for the team as they're currently built. And... Well, and they weren't able to do a lot of agency because the Rogers' deal is such an albatross. At what point do we become concerned

that this trade hasn't been? I'm concerned. I'm concerned. I'm like a... Yeah. I'm not really concerned. I'm weirded out. Like, two...

Because, yes, teams want to extract as much value and, and are committed to that. Usually, typically. In the normal order of things in the NFL, when two organizations see something as a win-win, they get it done. They just do it. It shouldn't be that hard. So I don't totally get... It makes me a little anxious that we're playing a brinksmanship game on either side

when both the Jets and the Packers really need to make this happen. Yeah. I still think they will. I think the problem is the Packers are looking at like the Tom Brady Patriots divorce in situation and they're like, oh, God, we don't want that to happen. And then on the other side, you have the Jets looking at the Russell Wilson Broncos situation, be like, oh God, we don't want that to happen. And both of these teams are trying to avoid that fate.

But in reality, those situations have nothing to do with you and you just need to do what's best to move on. Yeah, you just figure it. It's holding up both of these teams off seasons. And you can get, like, what I don't understand why they, what they don't do is have the conditional picks go. So have the. draft capital this year be somewhat limited, a second, two, third, like, whatever it is? Um, have the draft capital next year going from the Jets to the Packers be meaningful. Another second, like, whatever it is. But something like, that's a pick that they would want.

And then place the conditions on something that Green Bay has to give back in 2020. five if Rogers retires. Because the logical tension point is that the Packers want the draft pick sooner and the Jets want insurance in case Rogers is one and done.

So why can't the contingency be something that would go back from Green Bay to New York if Rogers is a one-year player for them? And it's, I'm not saying this because I'm to just go, oh, here's a template for what they could do. but it is weird that you and I can just sit here and be like,

yeah, why can't, like, that should work. That should, in theory, be a fine way to fix this. And then Green Bay doesn't have to have $60 million on their books for him next year. And the Jets have a quarterback who's not Zach Wilson. And everybody should want this. It shouldn't be this hard. I think one of the problems with this negotiation is kind of how public it's been. where we've had both sides

kind of say things that they probably shouldn't have said and they played their hand a little too soon. Like we had Mark Murphy basically say if things go our way, Aaron Rogers won't be on the team next year. And then you have Joe Douglas, I think it was over the weekend basically saying, yeah, he's

going to be here. Basically guaranteeing it without guaranteeing it at an event. And that makes it harder. And I think now we're at a situation where both GMs who both have something to prove, like good of cunts, is following in the footsteps of Ted Thompson, and now I'm forgetting the last GM's name,

but he's following in the footsteps of two guys that built good rosters. And I think he has to prove that he's, you know, worthy of that job. And then you have Joe Douglas, who I thought got off to a good start. And I think he's really, he really has the backing of Jets fans. Jets fans really believe in him. And I think he needs to keep up that perception. I think he needs a win here after the Zach Wilson draft. and it's almost become like a public relations thing for these teams.

Like they need to win the trade not only like practically, but I think in the view of the public at this point. And if they don't, then there's going to be questions immediately. Like I think this is the only trade where once it happens, people might already declare a loser and be like, oh my God, this guy's got, like we have to question this guy's job. Like you're already seen it from Packers fans with Goodacons. already. They're already questioning how he's handling this trade. And I don't think that's going to go away even after the trade is over.

At the same time, I guess I get that a little bit more from the Goudicund's perspective. If you're Joe Douglas, and I get it, like you just had this killer first round last year and probably feel like you have a bit of a hot hand and want to keep it going. But first of all, that's not really what we see play out from year to year in drafts. And, at the end of the day, I think the Jets should be able to get away with giving less than the, what is it, the 13th that they have, their first rounder. Yeah, yeah. But just give them the stupid pick. Like, just give them the pick and be done with it.

You're going to, it is still Aaron Rogers. You're going to be able to justify that to your fan base. You're going to be able to justify that to your ownership. Like, especially when everybody in the organization, everybody in the Packers organization, and Rogers is out there being like, this is what we want. We want to make this happen.

I just, no one is going to want Joe Douglas's head on a platter for sending a first round pick for Aaron Rogers. The things that could hold this up don't make sense, which is why it's weird that it hasn't happened. Also, by the way, Joe,

or in Goudicunds, if this is, trade doesn't work. You're not going to be making those picks in the future anyway. So I wouldn't worry too much about them. But yeah, draft a receiver.

Or a tight end. Even offense to tackle, I think, is a way they can go. Boktiari is old. He's been dealing with his ACL injury for like three years now. And it's been tough for him to get on the field. I think you have to think about a replacement plan

for him too. I think there's, isn't their plan that they would move? Elton Jenkins back out to tackle. I mean, yeah, that seems to be the play for them. But then you either need to replace him or you just need to keep adding there. And then tight end actually. Receiver obviously is the funniest

version of events. They definitely need, they just need pass catchers. I could very much see the argument for trying to go tight end because it's a good class. And you do, you did draft Christian Watson and Dobbs and those have been promising players. Again, I still think that you should go for a number

one if the opportunity is available. But your receiver group is not scary. I really Robert Tonnion went to Chicago. I don't know who's playing tight end for this team. So somebody who can catch

Jordan loves passes, I think is sort of the priority. And then within that, they could go receiver. They could go tight end. I think they can see how the board shakes. They need a noseguard, but not as badly as they need people to catch passes. Right, yeah. Another team that has a lot of holes, which is kind of surprising, given where this roster was even last year.

Yeah. A team that has fewer holes than I think people realize, even than sort of I felt going into looking at their situation, the commanders. They do need like, their needs include handling some like pending litigation. So it's not that there aren't things that need to happen there. I think they would like a new owner would be nice.

They are another team where I don't agree with their strategy at quarterback, but am accepting that they are going into this year with Sam Howell and Jacoby Brissette unless a new owner goes in there and really, really shakes things up, I don't think that you can count that out as a possibility. But for the purposes of this exercise, I am adopting their mindset that they have their quarterback, even though I don't really think that they do or should be thinking that way. But once you go down that path,

this roster is in a pretty good situation. I don't really know what to think about Sam Howell, but I actually do think that Jacoby Brissette could win, with this roster. They are, they're in an increasingly tough, seeming division. So I think you mute the expectations that way a little bit. But the skill position players are really,

really fun. McLaurin, Dotson, Curtis Samuel, Gibson and Brian Robinson in the backfield, especially Brian Robinson, I thought, looked better and better as he gets further away from his gunshot injury, which obviously was a really weird and scary situation. that they went through last year.

But I think offensively, the line is sort of just okay. But the group that they have there around whoever's playing quarterback is really, really fun. Defensively, it's more a question of preparing for the reality of it's going to be hard

to pay Chase Young and Montez Sweat at some point. So I think you can, it's not an immediate need, but it's certainly something where, you know, you're not just drafting for next year. And looking to the future there would be smart. They could add at Nickel Corner. They need a tight end is the one, I think, weak link in that skill group. Logan Thomas is the starter. Only had 323 yards last season and was the leading tight end there too.

But they, I think, can kind of go, they're in a best player of it. available situation. And with the caveat that I think just getting ready for keeping that defensive line group, the strength that it has been if you're not going to be able to do huge deals with everybody, I think should be a priority there. Yeah, I have a lot of the same positions. I think cornerback is a position they need to address.

I think offensive line, it could get better. And I think if you're playing Jacoby Burset, who is a quarterback who I think requires like an extra half second of processing time. He's just kind of like a deliberate quarterback. But I really do like Jacoby's fit for this offense. And I think I can track the logic behind it. We kind of saw it last year when they replaced Carson Wentz with Heineke. Because Heineke gave those receivers, those star receivers, a chance to make plays.

In ways that Carson Wentz really wasn't. And I think say what you want about Jacoby Percette. He's going to give receivers a chance to make plays. And he has the armed talent to get the ball down field too. The thing that's weird is that they keep talking about. Sam Howell. Like, the thing with Jacoby is just like, I don't know, you know, what the sort of longevity of this plan is.

And I'm with you. I'm just like, all right, that's not, let's be real here. He's not going to win that quarterback competition. And Jacoby Percette is going to be the starter for this team. But stop talking about Sam Howell. It's weird. He has Brock Purdy traits. No, that's not even what they said.

They were like, we think he has the ceiling. to be properly. The craziest thing anyone in the entire league has said this year is we're excited about Sam Howell because we believe that he has the potential to be a Brock Purdy type. And this is a world where Sean Payton said that Jared Stidham is like a future starter in this league. Competition is fierce.

What else? When are the other ones? Like when Derek Carr visited the Jets, they said that he could be a Hall of Famer. That's a second off season in a row. been called a Hall of Famer. Didn't Devante call him a Hall of Famer last offseason? He's like, oh, yeah, I'm transitioning from one Hall of Famer to another.

It's hysterical. But yeah, new owner would be nice. New owner, maybe a lineman, maybe the tight end. Call it a day. Good stuff. Good stuff in our nation's capital. New set of uniforms, too. Speaking of, I just secured my playoff tickets for the XFL playoffs.

Oh. Very excited. do they still do the they're still doing the chant the Dan Snyder chant yeah they do it every it's like once a quarter the after Dan Snyder chant

they don't even pay attention to the game they just chant that they come to the game to chant that that's catharsis yeah the Lions are our last team finishing this up here the almost playoff involved Detroit Lions

one of the most I think exciting teams in the draft. They have so many picks. Two first rounders, five in the top 81. I have defense in all caps here. This is the team that gave up the most yards, the most yards per play last

season. Their offensive situation looks pretty great, honestly, especially when you consider that they can continue to add there. They've done some stuff defensively

in free agency. I love the Chauncey Gardner Johnson thing. I love the, I just like love, I love him playing for Dan Campbell. I just, I think that's going to be fun. Uh, Emmanuel Mosley, okay, Cam Sutton. Um, so they've done a little bit to add defensively. Obviously, Cam Sutton is sort of stepping in for, I think, the Okuda spot that you would have projected there, but they still, I think, have to figure out what they're doing opposite him. And then interior defensive line, I think it's a huge need,

especially because Levine Wuzeriki, I think, is still recovering from some kind of concerning back issues. And they really struggled against the run last year. I think they don't really know what his football playing future is there, but they've got William McNeil and Isaiah Bugs there. So I think that's a real position of. of need. Offensively, I have tight end,

but I just don't think that it's a huge priority given how stacked their receiver group is. I think it's hard for those guys to get on the field, honestly, with how they play. But still, after trading T.J. Hawkinson, I think you might want to add somebody there. And they just have so many picks that

they can fill a lot of these. Yeah. And it's a strong class of tight end this year. And, I think the tight end that you need in that offense is one that's not necessarily valued around the league and that's like a blocking tight end. Yeah. So I don't think it's like a position they have to go out of their way to get, which I think is one of the reasons why they traded Hawkinson. But tight ends on my list.

I still have quarterback on the list. I think golf obviously last year proved that he's a passable option. I think you, like where this team seems to be going, you need something more than that if you want to eventually become like a contender for a championship. for right now I think it works where they're at in their rebuild. They have a lot of picks, but I would throw them all as defense. If that's true though, then they have to do it this year. I mean, they don't have to because there's free agency, there's, like, you never know what's going to happen.

This is another situation where like I have just sort of adopted what I believe is the team's mindset because I don't know. They could, I would consider it a pleasant surprise if they were aggressive there. But the thing is, is when are you going to be, when are you going to have? have the high picks again. Right. If you don't try to go get a quarterback this year, obviously, you know, you can do the strategy where you sort of take one every year and see if somebody hits, see if somebody

develops. You monitor their trades. You never know. But you turn into the cults faster than you realize, I think. I wonder if they were one of the teams that called the Cardinals, certainly. I'm looking at Jared Garrett golf's contract, and his cap hit is $30 million this year, $31 million next year. I think that's like you can handle that, but after 2024, you're going to need a quarterback. The options are pay Jared Golf market value, which by then might be like $50 million.

That's like the starting point. or you're going to have to draft a guy. And like you said, are you going to be drafting this high again? Are you going to have this level of draft capital again? It's easy to build up this type of draft capital. It's easy to build up this type of draft capital when you're a rebuilding team that's losing.

It's hard to do it when you're trying to maintain a championship level roster. And I think that's the point Detroit sees themselves at in 2024. I think using that, I think they have the number 18 pick. That's their second pick in the first round. I think flipping that to kind of gain draft capital for future years, like next year in 2025,

is the way to go about this. And then using all the rest of the pitch, just throw it at the defense, hope to get like three hits, three future starters. And that's a good draft for this team where they're at. I agree with you. I wouldn't draft quarterback at this point,

like in the first round, I mean. I wouldn't be mad if they did it. I just don't think that they will. Yeah, no, I agree with you. It seems like Dan Campbell really believes in Jared Kauff. Whether he should is another matter. But I think this draft should be about setting yourself up for 2024, 2025. If you need to pick a quarterback, you have the capital to make a move up to do that.

I still bet they were, like, I bet they've called, I bet they've called Arizona. Yeah, for sure. I mean, you almost have to at this point. Like, you can't, I don't think, I do think they are confident. it and Jared Goff being a quarterback capable of taking them to the playoffs and maybe winning a game or two. But even still, you have to do

that work. You have to be thinking about his replacement, especially with him nearing the end of his contract. He only has two years left. He's not the type of guy. I think you want to pay that type of money. I don't know. They need to be thinking about it. It's also like people love to say like, oh, well, Brad Holmes

loves Jared Goff, loves him from L.A., like all of that, which is true. But it is also sort of like, yeah, then what happened? Like, it's not like he doesn't know. So I don't know. I just, I hope they have, they have gone about this rebuild,

I think, so smartly and they're in such a good position. I hope they're smart about how they handle that because it's sort of the last. It is both the last, but also the biggest thing that needs to fall into place for them to really, really be a serious contender. And it's just such a big draft for them.

I do really like your idea of trying to push some of it off to next year. Should be fairly doable. Teams tend to value. Capital now is better than capital later. Time value of money applies for draft picks, I guess. But in their case, they might be able to do something advantageous because of that because they just have so much to work with now. So we will see.

Anything else, Stephen? I think we've pretty much, we've gotten through all the non-playoff teams. We'll be back on Friday and do the playoff. teams, but are we missing anything? I don't think so. The one thing I will say about the Lions is I do think that Hawkinson trade, because we talked about this earlier with other teams, like kind of committing and doubling

down on draft picks, especially like top 10 picks, the fact that they moved off of Hawkinson as quickly as they did before his rookie contract ended, bodes well for this front office and suggests that they're not going to pot commit to players just because they drafted them highly. Yeah. Because I think

that was Brad Holm's first pick, and it was a big pick for that team. Yeah. Even like, obviously Okuda was a different regime, but I still think that that, like... Yeah, another example. Just being willing to say, all right, this didn't, this didn't work. Let's get something instead of getting nothing. Good. Cool. All right.

This has been the Ringer NFL show. I'm Norr Pinciotti. He's Stephen Ruiz. We will be back on Friday. We will go through the team needs of the NFC playoff teams. Thank you, as always to Stefan Anderson for production on this episode. And to Connor Nevins and Arnevins and our... are Juno Ramgapal for additional production supervision.