The Ringer NFL Show - Hue’s 'Hard Knocks' Debut, Bottom-Dwellers, and Angry Aaron Rodgers | GM Street (Ep.278)

Episode Date: August 8, 2018

The Ringer’s Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier break down the premiere episode of the new season of ‘Hard Knocks,’ including Hue Jackson’s first impression, Baker Mayfield’s first week of camp, and the Browns' potential this season (4:00). Then, the guys cover the latest news from around the NFL (37:45). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Just in one place. It's so easy. create or join a league now at yahoo.com slash gm street fantasy football that is yahoo.com slash gm street fantasy football welcome to gm street part of the ringer podcast network it is wednesday it is august 8th and on the line unfortunately on the line wish she was here in studio with me mr michael lombardi lombardi how you doing i'm good tape for it well i'm not really good i mean american airlines kind of destroyed my day but other than that i should be there i mean i was supposed to be on a on a 315 flight out of Philadelphia going back. I had the dogs with me.

Millie was with me, right? Oh, of course. So I get to the airport, and they tell me you can't fly the dogs because it's over 85 degrees, which they never told me. But no big deal, so go back home and I'll take the flight myself, right? And I turned out a chance to get a $500 ticket because I wasn't willing to wait to 845. So got on the flight, waited, just keep lying to you the whole time. And he was right. I just keep lying. They lied. I had to take an Uber back home. I can convenient. It's not around. Shee State. Nothing. No, nothing? They didn't even give you a room.

No, no. They brought out snacks. They brought out snacks. American brought out snacks. You got some peanuts? Yeah, that's about it. So, you got, actually, they put us on the plane. How about these poor people? They were going to Paris. So they put these people on a plane. They kicked them on another plane. They kicked them on another gate. One lady's completely lost. She can't speak English. She's walking around. She has no idea where she's going, right? They finally get that play. They kick everybody off. We get on that plane. We get ready to board and take off, right? Where everybody's in their seats. And they can't go. This plane ain't going anywhere. Because they had flown too many. It had been too many hours, right? Too many hours. It's like truck drivers. It was bizarre.

And then you should align at customer service to get a, I was like, I'm out. That's why I'm not back there today, but I'll be back in L.A. tomorrow. Well, I'm excited to have you back. I will say this. This is probably your most celebrity moment because that's the big things that celebs do. They have these moments on planes where, you know, they tweet at United or they tweeted at American Airlines. You know, I've had this horrible experience, blah, blah, blah.

Like I remember the other day I was watching Sophia Bush, big One Tree Hill fan here. But I was watching hers and she's on United having the same problems as you, Lombardi. But that's like the big celebrity thing they do in the airports is go after these airlines at large. I will say this. As someone who flies on all these flights,

if there is or there are any mechanical issues, I'm fine to stay on the ground. I'm okay. I can hang on the ground. But they change planes, but here's the thing. Here's the thing I learned. The summer travels, the worst travel. Oh, yes. At least when you go to the airport

and it's snow and you know, there's a chance you're not getting out, right? So you make the judgment. I take an earlier flight, when's the snow coming? You can work around it. The airport, you get there. Like these thunderstorms, they just show up out of the blue. Like, you never even know.

Oh, then here's the great one. We literally sat up this year because we are going to every Wednesday on GM Street. We are going to give it honest. The great hard knocks. HBO's own variety show where they go and take you inside. The locker room, one of my favorite verbs that I've turned in over the years is when someone gets hard knocks, when you watch the show and you tend to buy in and believe in a team, We saw it over the years with the Cincinnati Bengals,

dating back to Chad Johnson when he was on that show and some of his antics and even up, you know, lead into the, we saw the Texans with Billy O'Brien, we saw the dolphins with Joe Philbin. We've seen so many iterations, Rex Ryan and New York Jets. So many moments over the years, the HBO Hard Knox has given us some insight into what really goes on in an NFL locker room.

This year, obviously, we are in Cleveland, and we have to start with the cleanse, right? Michael Lombardi, that's what we learned. We had to start with LeBron. Did you ever doubt that that show was going to open up with the LeBron thing? Yes, so that was the opening scene of the show. It's a bunch of guys that are, you know, scaffolding down on the big wall that Nike pays for this big LeBron, you know, poster where he has Cleveland on his back and he has his arms outstretched, very similar

to the Michael Jordan poster, the Wings poster. But that's what they're taking it down. Nike is taking it down because LeBron is no longer in Cleveland, as we all know. So that's the opening shot of the episode. We discussed the despair in Cleveland, you know, a town that had seen some real, real lows, even though they did win a title in 2016, which was not too long ago.

But that's the opening shot, and we set up for Hugh Jackson's redemption story, right? That's what's coming from this? That's what we've learned? You know, you think so. I mean, look, I say this. I think you have to be as a coach, and as young coach you watch this,

you really have to understand a couple things. You know, your job is to be the head coach, and so you should be the guy who has the expert, knowledge of everything because that's why you're getting paid $5 million a year. And that's why you're supposed to have a pulse on everything that's going on on your football team. And so when you're watching this, Grid Iron Genius is essentially about part of the book that I wrote is I got tasked with the job by the Rams to do this project on what makes a great head coach. And it's watching this. I'm thinking of all four areas of leadership. Does he have command? Does he have a plan?

You know, and all these things that I'm watching it. And I think these are the kind of shows that can make and break careers. I mean, her meds never recovered from hard docs, never recovered from it. Made them look bad, you know, made it got a peek inside of what his building was. It's going to be fascinated to see how he used handle on this. And let's just talk about, you know, from the jump. I mean, I talked about the cleanse. That was an actual theme to open this episode where Hugh Jackson gets, you know, a big group of people. I think it's the, it was... Well, to his left was his daughter and then to his daughter's left was the owner. He has them. She went in there. I didn't see, you know, which was surprising.

You know, the whole first episode, we didn't hear from the Haslums, which I think was probably, yeah, they part of the cleanse as well. Yeah, so they all dive into Lake Erie, Hugh Jackson. I think they were doing it for calls to fight human trafficking in Cleveland, you know, nice calls to do this. So they jump into Lake Erie, they call it the cleanse. They say that they've baptized themselves into the world of winning, and they're putting the losing in the past. and we see guys like Jarvis Landry in this episode, you know, talk about how, you know, weakness and an idea that you want to sit out from a game, you know, that's contagious. He goes on a swear-filled rant that even Rex Ryan would blush at, you know, in the wide receiver's room trying to get these guys motivated. Which I thought was interesting.

Okay. First of all, I mean, you know, I admire, I admire Landry's, look ethic, and you can see by his hands that he'll catch the ball and he's good with the ball in his hands. however, yards after the catch is not very good, and his numbers really in Miami are backfield and Jarvis Landryd lined up as a receiver. But that being said, I mean, you know, I respect what Landry's trying to do here, but that's not really, that just tells you

a microcosm of what's wrong with the Browns. When a receiver has to talk to his players in the room, then you know the culture's not there. If you brought in any culture expert in the world and you sat down there and you had to hear, and he's watching this show on TV, he's saying, well, the culture has to start with the head coach, but obviously it didn't. Yeah, it definitely didn't.

And the interesting thing to me with the Landry situation kind of came to its head when we get to this meeting with all the coaches and we get to the brass of the Browns and we get Hugh Jackson sort of holding court in this room. And Todd Haley, obviously, an offensive coordinator that had been with the Steelers for a while and, you know, it had been a head coach at Kansas City. Hugh Jackson is talking to him, talking to Greg Williams, talking to his whole staff. And, you know, he's basically saying, you know, this is my team.

I'm making the decisions. And if we go down, you're going to... He quotes Al, but he quotes Al in the meeting. But really, let's face it, Al own the team. You know, this is my team. We're going to do what I want to do. It is his team. He's going to these guys in the room, you know,

and three of them have more wins as head coaches than he does. Yeah. So that's what I was going to ask you about. So he's saying this, basically, the context of the conversation is, he's saying, I know what you guys are seeing from your chairs, because I've sat there before. I've been a running back coach in Cincinnati. I've done all these sorts of things.

But it's different where I'm sitting. But how much, how does that play in a room where Todd Haley has obviously been a head coach and sat in that chair? And he has, you know, experience in that head coach position. I mean, it seemed like he was almost talking down to those guys a little bit. And that was that kind of turns some people off. Without any substance. I mean, look, I've sat in Bill Walsh's coaches meetings.

I've sat in Bill Belichick's coaches meetings. I've said, you know, whenever you got to tell somebody who's got the power. That doesn't work. I mean, Walsh made it very clear what he wanted from his coaches. Nobody was going to tell Walsh what they wanted. He was going to ask. If they asked, they gave an opinion. But I think really here, the guy with the most power in the room was Joe Sheehan, the trainer. He's the one who is, that could you imagine sitting in a police say to you that he can't practice? Well, their job isn't to tell who needs rest. That's called the head. So now let's go a step further. So Joe Sheehan gives this report. Now, Sheehan's been through, he was there when I was there.

So he knows how to play the game as well as anybody. So he goes through it and he gives his report. This guy needs a day off. This guy does it. Okay, great. To me, the star of Hard Knocks was Freddie Kitchens, the tight ends coach, who's basically pleading with him, pleading with you, the NFL team before.

He's actually seen it. Todd Hallie is sitting there. He's listening to him, and let me just say this to you, Tay Fraser. There's no chance in hell. No trainers tell him Bill Parcells who's practice and who ain't. Okay? There's no chance. Then, so you understand.

He couldn't understand it. He doesn't understand it. Nobody gets days off. In New England, if you can't practice, what you have to do for not practicing is harder than practicing. Okay? It's because if you can't do it, it's like you're not going to sit there and have a day off and drink tea and put the sunglasses on and go to the pool while other guys are out there working.

And if that were the case, then the whole Landry speech wouldn't even be needed. Yes. The Landry speech isn't even needed. And we also saw a moment with Hugh Jackson. accent on the field. So Hughes saying this stuff where he's like basically, I want to protect my players because it doesn't matter about right now. It matters about during the season. We don't want to lose Duke Johnson during the season. He needs to get all the carries. We want to keep him healthy. He's making this argument, right? But then we see him on the field later in the episode.

And it's Denzel Ward, first round pick, standing there with another defensive back. And they're basically just talking shot to each other while the defense is running through schemes and they're sort of throwing out calls out there and getting reactions. And then Hughes just staring at him, and they had this little funny exchange back and forth. It's like, coach is looking at us. He's still looking at us. Should I say something? Then they finally look at him.

He's like, what are you guys doing having a tea party over there? So then he's talking out of both sides. You know, he doesn't want these guys to run through some of this stuff for fear of injury. It's really kind of sad. It's really, to me, watching it, and I get a lot of crap. You're just Belichick. And you don't, yes, I'm spoiled. And maybe that's not exactly how everybody should do it to win,

because not everybody has to do it that way. But there has to be. But I will point out. in the book, I mean, it's not like you're saying this is how to do it. You're just basically showcasing what these these great leaders like Bill Wash and Al Davis and Bill Belichick and all these people that you've been around

have done. You know what I mean? You're just basically mapping it out. Yeah. Like, you can't do that. And so basically, they want to be a tougher team. Well, the only way you can be a tougher team is to practice when it's hard, when you can get toughness. You can't just, you just can't turn a toughness switch on in your body. You just can't make it

happen. You know, and you wonder why guys, and I've never seen guys have more, like, more comfortable than ever. Like, the one thing you should be at that camp is uncomfortable. Well, let's talk about, let's talk about a guy that's very comfortable with that camp. He came in with a camper. They have the quarterback room. We saw John Dorsey when he gets the deal done and gets Baker Mayfield signed, of course, the number one pick of the NFL draft this year. You know, it's all hugs and celebrations. And Baker's saying the right things in the media. He's not here to be a backup, even though Tyrod has already gotten a nod from Hugh Jackson to be the number one guy. But we have this interesting moment between Hugh, which I think this was actually

one of the best moments, right, for Hugh Jackson in this episode as far as being a coach and trying to motivate a guy to do something and take the next step. He's talking to his number one pick, Baker Mayfield, and we'll play that clip right now. What's up, my son? So I guess that's what you said when you said it was different. I tried to tell you. And what time do you normally get up in one? I was a little bit later this one. No, no, I know. What time you know me to come over? Depends on when we start.

Huh? Try and get in about two hours before. Okay. Do you ever come in with your boy five? He does his own little workouts in the mornings. Where's your own little workout in the morning? Huh? Where's your own little workout in the morning?

Start starting your career how you want to, you see what I'm saying? It's a competition. All in everything you do, baby. You know how to do it? Why not? No, it doesn't help. and I like that. No. He doesn't know how to do it.

He doesn't know how to. He just admitted he doesn't know how to do it. Like to me, you're trying to be the guy's friend there. Like Jimmy, okay, the only I can compare it to is Jimmy Groplo. You didn't have to tell Jimmy Groplo to get in early. He saw Tom Brady get in early one day. That was the end of it. He was coming in early. Like, he was competing.

What that conversation tells you is Baker Mayfield's out. He's got his hand out. He expects it. He feels entitled. And see, this is the real problem you have when you, take over a team that's never one. The high-priced guys are all rookies. Okay? So you've got no leadership

to really establish the culture you want to put it in place. You have no way of getting them to buy in. And then you get a guy like this. Like that conversation should have been, hey, Mayfield, your ass don't get in here by 5.30 in the morning. You'll be third on the depth chart. And the story. That's the only knock that I have on

the way he tiptoed around it. You know what I mean? It wasn't a... It was passive aggressive. Yeah, it wasn't a direct address. You know, it's like, when do you come in? About, you know, And then Baker gives the PC answer about two hours before everybody else, even though he said he was late this morning. And then when he get pushed back, he was almost shocked by, because I think Hughes has been so nice to him the entire time.

You know, he was kind of like, huh? Like, what do you mean? Yeah. And then he's like, you know. So if you had that conversation with Belichick, it would have gone like this. Like, what, Belichick, the first question Belichick would ask, when he asked, what time did you get in today, Belichick A would have known.

What time do you usually get in? He would have known. Like, he would have been, don't show up, your third on the depth chart. Like, we're not, he's talking about handing out stripes. on the helmet, and yet he's tolerating guys do whatever they want them to do. Like, young players don't know. That's why you're

paid $5 million a year. You're paid to lead the coach, to lead the players. Tell them what they want to do. Don't tell me they're grown, man. They're not grown men. They're still young players. Get your ass in here and start working and prepare and make it hard for him. All of a sudden, he's got the four-string quarterback putting a snacks

in like Baker Mayfield's played 10 years in the league. Like, yo, oh, you'll be stack in the refrigerator too, bro. Yep, and we saw that when they brought Baker up, he got called out in front of the whole team, and they asked him what his signing bonus was, right? Which gets back to your point about the young guys being the rich guys on the team, and then everyone kind of reacted to that,

and then he, like, sing, you know, Rocky Top or something like that, and some of the players didn't really join in, and then he kind of just sat back down. He's kind of gotten himself in this weird spot because he is kind of in a cushy position where Tyrod is the guy, right? So they're not going to throw him out to the wolves to start the season. But, I mean, we even saw when he goes to practice. There's already people chanting Baker Mayfield, Baker Mayfield.

I mean, what does that do to a locker room? I mean, are they excited about the idea that Baker Mayfield is getting all this attention? Obviously, he is the number one pick and fans in Cleveland are excited. But, I mean, is there a little bit of a hesitation because you don't want a guy like Baker to buy into his own hype before he's even the starting quarterback on his own team, you know? Well, he's already bought into it. I mean, one of the things you've got to do with young players. The number one thing you got to do is you got de-recruiting.

The Askedista they've had at the schools for so long. You know, you've got to do with Alabama players. You've got to do with Oklahoma. You've got to do with every team. Rookie orientation program. You've got to spend the month of May and June with their rookies and educate them on what it's like to be a pro. Not about how they're going to put their money in the bank or what they're going to do. You've got to educate them on what it takes to become a pro football player.

And if they can't grasp it then, because you've got to set it. That's what coaches do. That's what leaders do. Remember this. When you take over a young team, you get a chance to establish the culture. Fuck the cleanse. cleanses nothing. Establish a culture.

Yeah. But Hugh doesn't establish a culture. There's no culture being established. There's no, we're talking about working hard. We're talking about getting tougher, and we're not doing any of it. We've got a trainer who's controlling who practices and doesn't practice. Are you kidding me? Yeah.

I mean, I know that happens in the 76th world. It drives me off the wall, right? You know, this guy's got a bad toenail. He can't practice today. Okay, I get it. That's basketball, right? But in football, are you kidding me? I mean, and even Hallie, like, Haley couldn't understand it because Haley's been around

Parcells. I mean, Todd Halley took a team to the playoffs. You can say whatever you want about Todd Halley. He's, you know, whatever he is, Hallie at least has seen an operation with culture. I don't think Hugh ever has. And let's play that clip right now because this is in that meeting we mentioned before. And Todd Haley kind of

just goes back at Hugh Jackson. Like, Hugh is basically just, like we said, holding court and he's just, you know, making some, you know, some statements that are just like grand statements about what they want to be as a program with the Cleveland Browns. But Todd Haley is kind of pushing back And it's like, well, we can't do that unless these guys are on the field, and we'll play that clip now.

I have an opinion on it. And we need to get so much done. You know, and I know I said that to you when we joke about it. But if we live in our fears, I mean, our team has to get mentally tougher and be able to fight through the shit that we've got to fight through. We've got to change this drastically. And if we've got guys that haven't done shit sitting around doing nothing, You know, I just don't know how we're going to do it. Well, I respect you saying that.

I mean, I used to sit in the same chair. Let me finish. Whoa, let me finish. I used to sit in the same chair as you guys sat in. And I used to feel the same way. I just want to kill them, okay? Until all of a sudden, I sat in this chair, and then they're not there. And you don't get them to practice.

And you can't get them through, and then you don't have them for three weeks. And I'm not living in my fears. That's real. And I think we all can appreciate that. Anything else? Speaking out, if I owe your peace. Get it out. All that being said on a positive, and we got a long way to go,

but that being said, we're making progress. There's enough positive in my experience that I'm encouraged. That's good. Guys, listen, I'm excited about what you're doing. I'm going to say it again. But the chair I sit in, a little different in the chair you guys are sitting. I get to watch from a different lens. Okay, and I think you guys in our respect that.

at the end of the day, I get to drive this bus, and I'm going to get it the way I want it. That's period. That's just how it works, okay? Al taught me a long time ago. You know, what is it Al, give it to me? If you're a team, you do whatever the hell you want. If you're a team, you do it the hell you want.

Okay, so this one's mine. So that's just the way it's going to be. And that is of respect of everybody in this room. But this is how we do it. You know, we'll always have these kinds of discussions, because I'm only trying to make it better. Something we can do better. We're going to do it better.

So the thing about that whole back and forth is, you know, first he pulls the Kanye West, I'm going to let you finish, you know, to Todd Haley, and then says his point and then basically wraps up, you know, into discussion kind of thing. And then like we brought up before. He just says it's his team as if, you know, he's in charge and he is the owner of this team. And you get Todd Haley, who was trying to bring up a point to try to get these guys to get better. That was, I think, the main reason why he was trying to step up and say something. And then he kind of coweres back and it's just like, well, I'm. I'm encouraged, you know? And when you're sitting on your heels and you just say that things are going well, but you're not really doing anything to make things better and there aren't real drastic

changes happening, then you can't really change the culture, which is the whole point of the conversation, right? Right. And so here's what happens in the NFL. Okay, so those guys leave the meeting, right? Haley realized he was on a camera and he went to be portrayed as being as being somebody who wasn't in favor. Because he knew the case for it to do it. Yeah, and he was probably a little bit there. Yeah. Yeah, and Hugh tries to be, you know, he tries to say, hey, I'm I'm in charge and, you know, yeah, Al owned the team. I'll own the other thing I think you've got to understand here. To get a team ready for the season, you're going to lose some guys.

That's part of the business, right? You can't, you can't prepare for a boxing match without spar. You just can't do it. And so whatever Hugh's saying about it, it's ridiculous. It makes no sense at all. Because no matter what chair you're sitting in, getting a football team ready, is the same chair. Thinks once we're healthy will be fine. You ain't that good.

You've got to practice. and if you lose a couple guys along the way, so be it. You can lose a couple guys along the way. But for me, just are going to get out of their chair. This is so classic tape. Go into their office how they can't get any toughness and how they can't really get their players. And then when the losing starts, all that biching becomes compounded.

So he doesn't have control of his own staff. They're not buying into it. Greg Williams isn't buying into it. Greg Williams is advertising for himself, and there's a defense court. I've got just seven jobs I could have had here. Really? Yeah. Quick break to get a word from our sponsor, Full Cell University.

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So let's talk about Greg Williams a little bit. I mean, obviously there's the history with Greg Williams with the New Orleans Saints and Bountagate and all that sort of stuff. So that's always followed him around the league as it was. But he did say in that meeting, I mean, and he was very strict. I mean, he was probably one of the few guys we saw in a position meeting basically tell these guys what it is. You know, he was very strict to the point direct. And, you know, he basically came out and said, I could have been in a lot of different places. I came to Cleveland because I want to be here.

And if you want to be here, good. We're going to be all good. if you don't want to be here, basically get the hell out. Which is, I think that's a good sign. If you're a Cleveland Browns fan, especially that defense with a guy like Miles Garrett. We saw Willie McGinnis come on and talk to Miles a little bit about sort of the talent that he has and what he can develop as a pass rusher in this league. So, I mean, is there a little bit of a bright spot there? It seems like Greg Williams does have a good hold on what's going on with that defense,

even though it is a very aggressive, aggressive pitch to those guys. I think all these young players have not. idea really what it takes to be great. That's great. They're talking about money because that's what most... How to be a pro. And if it's not coming from the coaches, who's it coming from? You've got a young team. You can mold this team any way you want. You can decide how you want it to be. But if you don't do that, if you don't take command, it's never going to happen. And Greg Williams can't have command of it because it's not coming through the culture. I think it's a really hard situation. Said in 1984, we're really only competing against eight. And you can count Cleveland as

not one of the eight. I don't care. And it kind of seems like you could tell early on. I mean, a lot of people were, you know, obviously responding to this episode and, you know, people were giving their comments on Hugh Jackson. I just wanted to, you know, I think we've covered that pretty well for his first situation. I did want to say something about him finding out the news about his family and having those real visceral moments and images out there to the world. And, you know, just seeing Dorsey, Dorsey really wanted to be there in the room to try to give him someone to lean on. It seemed like, you know, he was trying to do the, uh, the very old school coach method, which is, you know, basically, you know, brush it under the rug and, and keep plugging

away. I mean, as he told some of the guys in there as he's watching tape, you know, he tells him the news about it, about it, about how it all happened and how it just, it just happened. And then he goes back to talking about the eye formation, you know what I mean, in a split second. So, um, he was trying to be a very, you know, strong minded, strong-willed person with this, but that is a very, very, very tough situation. And that is one of those moments where it gets above football and goes back to humanity. And you hope that, you know, he's able to grieve in the proper channel and the proper fashion. We saw the offensive linemen.

I'll say they were going to send something for his mother's funeral, which was good to see. So that was one of the moments where we saw a real human side of Hugh, and I did want to mention that. Yeah, no doubt. You lose your mom. You lose your mom. It hurts. And that's another's with hard knocks. The professional side we saw of hard knocks is tech's able to win.

much as he's a win, it's because the level of comp is so bad. He's great, don't get me wrong. Yeah. But the difference between Belichick and what we're watching on that television, from what I saw,

would be like from here to Fiji. Yeah, there is a drastic difference in how things are being handled. I want to put out two things that are sort of lighthearted that happened in the episode. Carl Nassib, defensive end had like sort of a date, sort of pseudo date with Taylor Swift.

That was made fun of by everyone in Cleveland, which was very enjoyable to see. And then Nick Chubb, we talked about Baker kind of buying into the hype. I mean, if you're Nick Chub and you're a Nick Chubb fan, you have to feel pretty good that he's in Cleveland, and he has people at the airport asking him if he plays football or basketball or what position he plays. And meanwhile, you know, if you watch college football,

Nick Chub is an absolute superstar on one of the best teams we saw last year in college football. And if that didn't humble Nick Chub and get him ready for camp, I don't know what else would. So that was probably good news. I think that's another symbol about how you build a team, right? everybody has to be the same when you build a team. And you've got to, you know, one guy can't have, you know, all the attention and all that. So I just think to me, one thing I'd find fascinating about the episode was what I did work for Jimmy Haslam in the one year.

And prior to capacity, he went and spent a couple days with him. He used to go see him in Nantuck. And what he's been able to develop in Cleveland is so anti-Belichick that I don't even know why he spent all that time doing it. That's a good point, Lombardy. And we should say John Dorsey was a guy. we didn't know how, you know, like you said, we didn't see much of the Hazam family. We did see a lot of John Dorsey in this episode.

He was obviously around. You can tell that he and Hugh are, you know, they have a very communicative relationship. They're back and forth. They're in the room a lot with each other. Dorsey is a guy to talk about because he makes the Corey Coleman trade, a guy that was a first round pick, and they trade Cory Coleman to Buffalo.

We did see in that episode, I believe. Todd Haley at one point was yelling at Corey Coleman. and then, of course, Corey Coleman gets traded to the bills. And it was apparently for a future draft pick, right? Or is it actually four players? I think it's a late, it's a conditional late pick. I think, look, I think Halley was yelling at him. I think let's fall up.

But when the trainer gives you days off, when the trainer tells you when you're tired, because the performance coach, I think John Dorsey's done deal. I think John Dorsey's going to keep making trades. He got rid of Coleman. Remember when they drafted Coleman, Hugh was all bored on that one.

He loved Coleman. I mean, he loved them. And I think this is a play. traded down, traded away from Deshawn Watson so they can get Coleman, you know. Wasn't it Carson Wentz? Yeah, they trade, that's why I want to go back. They trade away from Carson Wentz to go get, you know,

to get these extra picks. I think picks really matter. You know, having picks are great, but making the picks work really matter the most. And unfortunately, in Cleveland, that hasn't been the case. I don't think Dorsey's done deal. I mean, I could see him trading. I mean, look, he's just, he signed Michael Kendrick's from the Eagles.

He's got Joe Schubert in there at Inside Linebacker. I could see him trading Jamie Collins, who's due to like 10 million this year, but different things. I think he's not done deal in that roster. Absolutely, and that will be the thing to keep an eye on, especially, I mean, we may be able to see it unfold live

on Hard Knocks over the next couple weeks as these things sort of play out. I will say just about the receiving core in general in Cleveland, and this will be our last thing on the Browns before we move on. I'm glad we've covered Cleveland more than most. We didn't grade them, though. We didn't grade the show. How would you grade the show before you get there?

Grade the show. I'm going to give it a B-minus. I would say my Average is the Joe Philbin Dolphins. That was probably my right at the equilibrium of will I watch it? I'm intrigued by the idea of Cleveland and what they could possibly do. I do like Jarvis Landry as a character. I think that will keep us entertained for a little while. But I give it about a B minus.

What about you? You know, I think if you, if in program and you watch that, you would say that that's so far from it. You could never do it. C minus. But from watching it and learning it, you know, watching and absorbing the production of it, HBO's thing, I would say B-minus.

Yeah, right around there. I mean, the good news about it is, I mean, as much as we are critiquing and judging what's going on in Cleveland, it is amazing that we do get the inside look at what these guys are up to and maybe understand the culture a little bit. Which is great for the fan. That's what my book's about, given

an inside view, it's just completely different from Woody. Absolutely not. No, I don't think that even, it might not even crossed his mind. He was so frustrated at that point. Just talking about the receivers, some some name, the biggest name, obviously, out there and a guy that is a pro bowler,

and we know the talent that he has naturally. Josh Gordon is a guy that is still floating out there. He's addressing his issues independently of the franchise at the moment. We did see in the episode that he had texted Hugh Jackson that he will see him soon. So that was big news to get, because if Gordon comes back to that receiving corps

and you have a real outside threat, a deep threat like Josh Gordon, that opens up things for everybody. especially for a guy like Jarvis Landry, if they put him back in the slot. And, you know, you could see Richard Higgins, Hollywood Higgins, maybe, you know, find some life out there on the outside for the Browns. Calloway could stay out of trouble. I think, you know, Dorsey as a general manager, has been very fortunate.

He's taken some real character risk in Kansas City. And they have paid off. I mean, the Kelsey thing, Kelsey was not a lot of people's board when he took him. Harry Kill was Marcus Peters was not on a lot of people's board when he took him. And those three picks. Now he takes Calaway. You know, now the kid's saying, well, it wasn't my marijuana in the car. The car just got up here.

It wasn't my ammunition in the car. I just got up here. Look, there's been a lot of signs. This kid missed his senior year of school. There's a lot of red flags around this guy. You put him in the room with Josh Gordon. I don't think that's the kind of – again, this is not the kind of culture you want to surround your players with or else it's just going to go off the deep end.

So, look, Gordon's missed 43 out of 49 games. I mean, we spent a lot of time talking about a player that never plays. Yeah. And, I mean, yeah, 43 out of 48. He obviously was electric when he was out there, but 2014 is very far removed from 2018. It was the year I was there. I mean, that was the year I was there. He was there, and he was great.

And, you know, we had a chance to trade him to San Francisco. We turned it down because we thought he could turn the corner. And one of the people that was spending time with him said he's never going to turn the corner. She can. And I hope he has. And I'm glad that he's had, you know, whatever reason he's missing camp to get himself straight is great. And I hope Josh can come back. But he couldn't do it at Baller.

he couldn't do it at Utah. He hasn't been able to do it at Cleveland. And so, you know, you're counting on somebody that can't really do it, and you've got a lot of invested in them, it's kind of going to be very difficult. It kind of reminds me, and I hope that, you know, there can be some sort of good moment, you know, where he finds a little bit of a home. But, you know, Josh Hamilton in baseball, he was going through a lot of issues with these sort of things and addiction and all of that stuff was going on. And he found sort of a home with the Rangers for a little while where he kind of got his head clear and things were going well in the field. and off the field and you hope that Josh Gordon will have some sort of clarity at some point where maybe he can find that in Cleveland and obviously that's what we're all hoping for. Let's get to some probably the biggest news that's going around the NFL as far as

contract talk and what's going on with that. And that is Khalil Mack, obviously, in Oakland with the Raiders and Aaron Donald down with the L.A. Rams. Both of those guys, you know, we talked about this a little last week, but basically Aaron Donald is going to set the market for the defensive tackle. and then that is going to, in turn, set the market for Khalil Mack with what he can do with the Oakland Raiders as a D-N and what money he wants to get guaranteed from them.

What sort of the update here, and what are you hearing in Lamarney? I don't think there's going to be much of an update. I think that Khalil Mack is just going to have to, because I don't think I think that we're in the same ballpark. If he does that, if he gets paid a quarterback money, do you think, my man, now I know they're completely different positions, but now we know that Amy Watkins got, is he going to get the 20? So all of a sudden you start paying $20 million for the Rams, for example,

when they pay Donald and they pay girly, they could have three. So you've got to go cheap, obviously. And then that's sort of just... That's why the Rams are trying to do it now. They're going cheap now because they've got a cheap quarterback. You know, you miss your window. When you have a cheap quarterback, like Dallas is Mr. Window with Prescott. Prescott's been cheap.

You should, you needed to make your run. Dallas was old. Dallas should have cut Witten and Bryant last year, the two years ago. Once they realized that Des was the real thing, they should have gotten young and built their team around them and not be caught in cap jail. They got the greatest gift of all. They got a quarterback for free.

When you get a quarterback for free, that's what the Eagles are doing. The Eagles are taking Wins, and basically they're building their team around them with a lot of parts because by the time Wences' contract comes up, they'll be a really good team. They already are a good team, and then they can afford them.

But when you just let this thing slide, you know, that's what happened to the Raiders. the Raiders went ahead when car was cheap, they had a lot of players. Now they don't. So I think you're going to see a change a little bit here in the Rams. I mean, this is where the Rams, the Rams got to make their hay right now. And we know why they're doing it.

Halt tape Fraser. They're trying to put, they got a lot of inventory to sell. They've got to sell those seats. Yeah, of course. They've got to prove that they are the team that, you know, is going to be the face of Los Angeles. Obviously, a lot of people have leaned in to the Rams because they were so good last year. When you win in L.A., you get a lot more fans than when you don't win, obviously. And just in the

NFC West, I mean, a good comparison was when Russell Wilson came into the league with the Seahawks, right? I mean, he's on that rookie deal as a quarterback. You get all these pieces on defense that are electric, you know, whether it be Irvin or, you know, all these guys that they had on defense, obviously, you know, they're old Thomas types and Sherman, all those guys, the Legion of Boom days. But that's what they had in the NFC West with Russell Wilson. But once Russell Wilson had to get paid, things change and they have to shift, you know,

priorities on the team. And they went to a more pass-first offense rather than a run first like they had with Marchand. And things changed. And the Rams 2020 is what they have to, you know, once they get there with Goff, they're going to have to re-address the whole situation with Goff and see if he's going to be the guy they give the big bucks, which, you know, as of now, he's going to get that because they're winning games. Another break to get a word from our sponsor, FanDul. There are lots of fantasy apps, but FanDuel is an easier to use choice.

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or opt for the all-new Fandul Sportsbook app. This is the future of sports betting. It's currently available in New Jersey. That's Lombardi's home. But if you are passing through Newark, you can start making your picks as soon as you hit the ground. Not to mention, these guys tell me that live betting is coming sooner than you think.

And this season, Van Duel even has a first. weekly pick them contest. They also have the biggest ever free NFL survival league with $250,000 up for grabs. New players, try FanDuel today and get a $20 bonus when you make your first deposit. Just sign up and use promo code, The Ringer. I want to ask you about the OBGA thing, OBJ thing with Ferris a little bit. He did come out and say that he was very excited about the negotiations and what's going on with those and seems to be pretty positive.

Is that just, you know, lip service a little bit to put out there to the world? Or is that just good PR? Or is that something that's really happening in New York with Gettleman? I think this. I think that, you know, the Giants are, look, the Giants have a couple choices here. They want, you know, the word around the street, I can't prove that this is accurate. But talking to people in the league, and I said, hey, are the Giants trying to move Beckham? And they said, well, you know, if they give them two number ones, they might move them.

Who's paying two number ones, right? She's nice mugs. And I said to the lady, I said, how much of these mugs? and she said $16. I said, you really don't want to sell mugs, do you a lady? Like, you really,

if you're charging $16 for a coffee mug, you don't want to sell them, right? When you're asking for two number ones for a player, you're really not trying to trade him. To me, if they pay him, you know, that means they're going through,

if they had a young quarterback, then paying Beckham's a lot easier, but they don't have a young quarterback, they've got an expensive quarterback. I mean, the Giants are one of these teams this year, I think they're moving off in a hurry. I mean,

it's a top side of division, top side of division, so it might happen. They've got an easier schedule. Sign in Beckham to a huge deal without a young quarterback. It's going to take a lot of caper. And, I mean, it could be one of those things, right, where if this is the end of Eli, you basically just shift that quarterback money to OBJ.

Say OBJ is basically our quarterback and then try to get a young guy in the draft next year, or, you know, whether it be a trade or whatever it may be. But, I mean, that could be the move for the Giants, right, just to basically cut ties with Eli and move all everything to OBJ, which is obviously a skill point. position. It's not as impactful as the quarterback position, but that may be something that they end up doing, even though that's not really Gettleman's M.O. honestly, at the end of the day, so it's something to keep an eye on. And I think, you know, if he gets north of, you know, then all of a sudden this whole market is going to completely go upside down. Yeah, because everyone's just going to

point in OBJ and say, why can't I get that? Let's talk about, you talk about rookie quarterbacks and the impact of young guys coming into games. Sam Darnold, we talked about it last week. He gets signed finally. He's there in New York. Todd Bowles is excited about having Darnold back and ready. And we got rookies in the first preseason game. And so if you have a guy like Donald, you know, we've seen the Jets go through this before when they got Sanchez. You know, they got their USC guy. They got the guy that fits the profile of a New York Jet quarterback in their mind.

Big kid, obviously big arm. What do you expect to see from Donald in his first preseason game when he comes in? Look, I think the key thing for all these young quarterbacks is to play with the starting line. They have to because what happens in preseason. season game. When the backup line comes in, you know, the whole play down and shit starts to happen, guys running for their lives. So, but I expect Arnold to play well. I think, you know, early, they play them in the first preseason game. They'll do from his time at USC, he's going to be quarterback come opening day.

I mean, there's too much talent. There's too much upside with the kid to really not integrate him in right away. My sense of it is, is that. I think Rosen the same thing. I think this kind of face a really tough schedule to begin the season. Be interesting to see how that holds up. Going back to the Jets, though, I think they got a really watch. Forget Donald's going to be fun to watch is what happens with Teddy Bridgewater. I think Teddy Bridgewater is the most interesting guy in the preseason this year, because if he plays well, he gives a team a chance to find a quarterback,

to have a Bay Bucks for the first three weeks of the season, or longer, or maybe it's someone else out there that needs a quarterback. I think it's going to be really fascinating to see what Bridgewater does. He's, to me, the most interesting guy in the preseason. Absolutely. And if he puts on a show and people kind of buy into the idea that he could be a guy that could maybe even be a bridge to a Josh Rosen or one of these other young rookie quarterbacks,

you know, there's a world in which he could do that. Or if there's a team, you know, he could get into the world where he's basically Tyrod Taylor, right? So he's like a mercenary quarterback that you bring in to control the game, control the clock, control the ball, and try to win football games in a different kind of way. And Teddy could be that guy for some team,

maybe even, you know, a team like the Bengals that are, you know, maybe trying to... I think Teddy could be better than Tyraight Taylor. One thing about Tyrault, it's amazing that I think, think that's really, it's a tribute to Ty Rattel, the person. Everybody who's ever coached Ty Rattel loves them. Of course. They love him.

Frank Beamer. And so that's because they love his work ethic, they love all that. It's when he just doesn't make enough plays is when he falls out of favor. I think the same thing to everybody loves Teddy. Now people just got to see if Teddy's healthy and can actually execute. Yep, absolutely. You brought up a good question when we were talking earlier about what we're going to talk about on the show. And you asked who will have the first pick in the draft.

And as you were bringing up... And this is something I think we should discuss in length. Who do you think right now, just reading all this stuff? Who has the first pick in the draft? If you were going to bet money, go to Vegas and bet, who would be the first pick in the draft? It's really tough. I'm going back and forth. I do think it's got to be the Cardinals.

I think just because of their division with what they're going to go up against, I think the Seahawks are going to be a lot better because their O-Lines going to be a lot better. I think they got Sweezy back, J.R. Sweezy, a guy that he and Russell, they have like some sort of weird magic, you know, they're basically like Scotty Pippin and Jordan. He understands where Russell Wilson needs to go as far as when the pocket is collapsing on him. I like what the Seahawks are doing the NFC West, and I just think that the Cardinals are going to be the team that gets knocked out because of Jimmy G and obviously the Rams and obviously because of Russell Wilson.

So I think they're going to get beat up in their own division. They've got a rookie quarterback, and I see the Cardinals being a team that will have that top pick. I think it's Miami. I think it's Miami. And I think even if Tana Hill's healthy, it could be. But if Tanyl gets hurt, they have nobody behind them. I mean, I think you've got to look at that. I think you've got to look at those.

Like, it could be San Francisco if Ropolo gets hurt, right? I mean, they have CJ Bethard behind him. So I think you've got to look at a team. I mean, Sam Bramford gets hurt. You could certainly say it's Arizona. I agree with you. There's certainly a team there. I mean, Tampa Bay has a tough schedule to start the season off.

And with Ryan Fitzpatrick, that could be the case. So my guess right now is Miami. I think that'll be the fascinating thing to watch in the preseason is watching some of these teams and see how actually how they all come out and how they play. You can learn enough about a team in the preseason. to really get an idea where they're going. One other team that I want to ask you about it, and it's another team that's floated out there

as being at the bottom of the league as far as wins and all that sort of stuff. The Chicago Bears. I mean, there is some excitement around like Matt Nagy and I think it's what's it called the fun and gun offense is what everyone's talking about. And well, it should be on paper. I mean, Chicago looks much better.

I mean, their defense is good backs. They've got receivers now. They had the worst receivers in football last year. Now they seem better. But it's all going to come down to one guy. Your boy. your alumnus, Mitchell Chubisky.

If you have faith in Mitchell Chubisky, then go and bet the bearers for the over. If you're not sure about Mitchell, you know, and it's going to be interested to see what he does at the preseason. Yeah, he's had some, I've seen a lot of mixed reports

coming out of camp, and I mean, we talked about this last week, the endowment effect, and how much can you take in, take stock in what you see out of camp? But I've seen, you know, one day it'll be Mitchell looks amazing, you know, he's throwing the deep ball a lot better.

The next day it would be like, you know, they had to pull Trubisky out because he was throwing too many interceptions. So it's a lot of interesting reports coming. One thing about preseason, when you're reading all this stuff, there's an old line by George Allen, the old Rex, Redskin coach. He said this, he said, you know, evaluate the evaluator. So who's ever doing the evaluation, you've got to evaluate him before you can really understand whether that's true or not.

Yeah. Because as evaluators, we all make mistakes. Of course. And everyone has their own opinion and preconceived notion about who's going to be good or bad. Yes, of course. Everybody has, you know, people at Lombardi, you never like that. like Trubisky, so you're just going to say he's playing bad. Well, if I never liked him and I say he's playing good, that means I really like him, right?

Yeah, of course. And so it's the same thing. I'm still not sold on golf, not because it's an endowment effect. It's just because when you watch the Rams and you see how their offense and what Shaw McVeigh did and how well he effectively changed. I want to see more from golf before I say he's all in. And if he does it again, and I'll say it. Absolutely.

And we should say the whole point, the only reason that you had the Trubisky holdup was not because of Trubisky the player, but it was the value of the pick with Deshaun Watson on the board. No doubt. Which I always like to bring up. And still to me, there's not enough history. 13 games for me is hard to bet put over. And I'd say Ryan Pace better hope that Trubisky's the guy because Deshaun Watson's going to be the guy in Houston. There's no doubt.

Yep, no doubt about it. One last thing before we get out of here. Aaron Rogers came out. Aaron Rogers now, the 35-year-old quarterback. He is coming out and said he's a grumpy old man now because he calls out all of his young receivers in Green Bay says that they have to be a lot better. If they want to have any chance to win, and he is in a win now period of his career. So if you don't want to jump on board, you need to get off board.

A little bit of a Greg Williams hat tip there. But just Rogers and that, I mean, obviously that's just him using the media to send a message. But I thought it was interesting that he came out on a day. I mean, that's what you need. That's what you want. That's what you have to have. You got to have your best players set the tone for intolerance for anything that's in a way of winning. That's what you got to have.

you can call him a jerk all you want you know but that's what he needs he needs he's got a bunch of young receivers he's got Randall who's not healthy they would trade Randall Cobb if they got the right offer so he really knows that you got you know you've got a bunch of younger receivers he's trying to develop he doesn't have the guys that he used to have in there he's got to make them better and the pressure is going to fall on him and if he does then he's got a chance the same thing you know you think Brady's sitting up there at a picnic I mean you think I mean Brady it's took him a year I mean mentioned for the Patriots this year if in fact Brady will end up trusting him.

If Brady trust him, he'll end up being that guy. If not, he won't. Can I ask you about one rookie wide receiver that's up there with the Patriots? This is my last thing. What is Braxton Barrios? Have you heard anything from him? You know, I think it's a competitive situation. I think, you know, right now it's going to have to be how he does in the games.

He is at best. I mean, when they sign Decker, he can't separate. So I think a lot of it's going to come down to who's playing on the outside. Is it going to be Cordell Patterson? Can it be in terms of their knowledge of the locker? I think Barros is going to be a guy. Can he play in the slot? And does he do anything in the preseason?

That's going to be key. Yeah, that's a very interesting wide receiver situation for Tom Brady. Maybe the most depleted talent pool he's had in quite some time as far as just go-to-guise to lean on. But he is Tom Brady and he tends to figure those things out pretty quickly. Before we get out of here, Lombardi, anything else that you have out in the world? No, just wish me luck traveling tomorrow, Tate Fraser. Just wish me like because I'm back to American Airlines again tomorrow.

So wish me luck. hopefully I get out to L.A. And then we can just sit down and do this face to face. Yeah, let's hope second time is the charm and let's hope American Airlines treats you well this time. That's all we can hope for these days. This has been another edition of GM Street, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. We will be back next week to talk more NFL football.

Thanks again to Fandul. This NFL season, Fan Duel, has more ways to win than ever before, like the free weekly pick-em contests, or Fan Duel's free NFL Survivor League. Pick one team every week of the season for a chance at the $250,000 prize. Fandle even has a tool called Guru, which helps you pick your lineup

so you can feel more confident going into game day. New players try Fandil today and get a $20 bonus when you make your first deposit. Just sign up and use promo code, The Ringer.