The Ringer NFL Show - Huge Trades Upstage Some Good Football in Week 8 (Ep. 172)

Episode Date: October 31, 2017

The Ringer’s Robert Mays and Kevin Clark react to the big trades from the past 24 hours, and examine how Jimmy Garoppolo to the 49ers changes the entire league (02:00) and why the NFL trade deadline feels like the NBA and MLB deadlines this year (11:15). Then the guys recognize the teams that are separating from the pack (21:00) and discuss whether anyone can compete with the Eagles or Seahawks in the NFC (27:30). Plus, Danny Kelly joins to explain how the Patriots defense is actually good now (42:30), and why the Bills' offensive improvements make them a contender (46:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's the Ringer NFL show. Robert May is here with Kevin Clark, and we're brought to you by Miller Light, which has proved not only to taste great, but to be less filling. Yep, and it's brewed with only 96 calories, so you can enjoy it from one game through the next. It's been the original light beer since it first showed up in the stands back in 1975. We're also brought to you by Seat Geek. Second half of the NFL season is when these games start really getting important, so it's time to get out and see some games in person, Kevin. And you can get your tickets on Seat Geek with just two taps. Seekkeek gets you closer to the action for a great price, and it saves you time by searching multiple ticket sites to compare prices and find amazing deals. Seekek also has plenty of concert, comedy, and theater tickets available to.

And our listeners will get a $20 rebate off their first Seatkeek purchase so you can buy a couple of Miller lights at the game, Robert. There you go. To get your $20 rebate on tickets, download the Seekek app, go to the Settings tab, and click add a promo code. And a promo code Ringer NFL. Seek will send you $20 after you've made your first ticket purchase. download on the C-Geek app and enter promo code Ringer NFL today. To the Ringer NFL show. Part of the Ringer podcast network.

I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. Kevin, it's Halloween. How are you? We're the two people who haven't been traded. Yeah, that's really it. Week 8 in the NFL is behind us, but it almost doesn't matter anymore because it's been a pretty nutty day.

We'll talk about all that. 24 hours ago, we taught, whoa, Seahawks and the Texans and the Bears, whatever the hell we were going to talk about. And now... We're not going to talk about the bears. Yeah, we're not going to about the bears. But now, I mean, the league is just exploded in the last 24 hours.

Yeah, we're going to do some shuffling. The news is going to lead us off here. We're going to talk to Danny a little bit later about the Bills and the Patriots. Before we get to him, though, there's a whole lot of news. And let's get right into it with our four downs. Kevin, on first down, I mean, it's been a wild 24 hours. We've had a lot of big name players traded, some, like, contend. trying to piece together their final spots to really make a run at this.

Before we get into all of them, though, let's start with pretty much the biggest shocker of the last day or so. And that's Jimmy Garoppolo heading to the 49ers for a second round pick. And I don't know. This was surprising, just the timing, the return on it. Everything we've heard about this guy over the last year and what it would take to get him and when he would move. I just didn't expect this to happen right now.

Well, I think that there's always a little bit of over. statement and what it's going to take to get a guy before it gets traded, especially when it comes from New England. That's the first thing we need to talk about. But then I think the larger thing is this is the rare trade that where the tentacles stretched throughout the league. Think about all the things that this touches. Not only does it touch the Patriots who are now going all in a 40-year-old, which I think is generally the right decision because they offered Garapolo a big contract and then he didn't want to take it because he wants to be a starter. That's the first thing. Albuqueror reported that last night. And I believe.

that to be true. It speeds up the rebuild in San Francisco, a team that might have, according to the spot track, $100 million in cap space with adjustments after this season. So they can become sort of a different version of the Jaguars with a quarterback. But then

it changes the Kirk Cousins market dramatically because we thought that there was basically a waiting game for Kirk Cousins. It changes the 2018 draft dramatically because assuming that the Niners have a high pick, they then get to become the the 2016 Titans and get to trade out for a haul for a team that needs a quarterback.

I mean, this, this changes, this is the trade that changes everything. Yeah. And for San Francisco, I think you can understand it. Even the small sample size we've seen from Jimmy Garoppolo, how much safer is that than drafting a rookie quarterback you've never seen play in the NFL? And not just never seen play in the NFL, but never seen play well. I understand it's the Patriots. I understand that there's some wrenches to the evaluation when you're looking at,

a guy that is surrounded by that sort of infrastructure. But I still feel like if you're going to make a bet on a quarterback, making it on a guy like this is still better. And you give up a second round pick. I understand you have to give him a contract extension, but you have a ton of cap space. I just feel like this is a smart move. And Kyle Shanahan knows what he wants in quarterbacks.

I think he's done a good job at getting the most out of the guys he's played with. This year has been awful, but there isn't much there. So, yeah, I can see this working out, and you're right. I mean, who knows what's the same? going to happen with Cousins now. The top of the draft does change. I mean, it is a huge domino effect. Going all in for the 2017

Patriots, it'll be really, obviously by the time you hear this, the Patriots will have taken that second round pick and acquired like nine players with it. So I don't, we can't really analyze the second half of this trade, which is what the Patriots are going to do with it. But I think generally it's very interesting to me. I think

that if you can fault the Patriots for anything, I think you hold on to Brissette now, don't you? Yeah, I mean, that's the problem right now. Who's your backup quarterback? It's going to be Brian Hoyer. Yeah, that makes sense. How do you feel about that?

Yeah, no, I'd rather have Brissette in the building. Yes. And the guy they got, by the way, Philip Dorset, 4% has 85 yards on the season. Yeah, I mean, yeah, of course. And like, that's those trades were not, all the quarterback trades, the Patriots have ever made when we have always tried to be like, oh, yeah, they'll draft again the third round. They'll flip them for a first. Like, this has never happened. They've never gotten a huge haul for any of these guys.

a top 35 pick, which this probably is going to turn into, is nice. But it's not what we were talking about six months ago, which in McIroplo. I was never a draft that was more available for him. I was never talking about that, by the way. I mean, I just thought that I think when you look at the quarterback market, I mean, Sam Bradford, who's who has played a lot of NFL football got a first round pick because it was a team that desperately needed a quarterback and thought they could win a Super Bowl. And I just, I think that's fair.

I mean, I never thought it was two first round picks or anything like that. But if you had a guy for another year of his rookie deal and you were a team like Cleveland who had more than one first round pick, it just felt like it would have been worth giving up one of those. I mean, this is the 35th pick in the draft. It's not whatever. It's not the 60th pick in the draft. It's pretty much a first round pick. Right. And it's certainly in Patriots world.

I mean, remember Michael Lombardi writing that thing about how basically you were banned from mentioning rounds in the Belichick draft room? I mean, rounds are how you make mistakes. So yes, I mean, they're basically going to have pick. I don't know. I don't want to go too bold here, but, you know, a pick in the 30s as their own pick. And then they're going to have the pick at 35. So, I mean, it'll be really interesting. I think just if they use that pick to require a veteran, I think it's very interesting.

Aaron Schatz just tweeted this out. The Patriots are first in offensive DVA and 32nd on defense. the last team to do that was the 2011 New England Patriots. So they know what they're doing. They've been here before they know how to navigate these waters. And the 2011 New England Patriots probably should have won the Super Bowl. That's great. That team was better than everybody else in the league.

And it was one of those crazy Giants games again. I do believe that the Patriots, yeah, I mean, they understand what they're doing. And they understand that they're going to get the most out of Brady. And the Carapel situation, especially what Breer reported about it, was always going to be really difficult to navigate just because when's the last time we saw that? I mean, a quarterback making a significant amount of money to be the backup and be in waiting, but I think they're going to have to give Brady a raise most likely in order to make him the highest paid quarterback. It just felt like there's so much to kind of sift through there. It may have been worth

it if Barapolo is that good, but I can't remember a situation that resembles anything like that. No, I can't either. I mean, obviously, as soon as they franchise Matt Castle, they traded him. So I don't know. I mean, no, I can't, I don't remember. Belichick just said at its press conference that they thought they had the best quarterback situation in the league for the last two and a half years and it just wasn't sustainable. And what he means by that is financially it's just not sustainable. That's it.

Because also, we've talked about this so many times before about what gives the Patriots an advantage and it's because of how little they pay their franchise quarterback. So paying that guy twice for some contingency plan a couple years down the road. I just don't know if that's ever going to be worth it because you sacrifice the team building strategy and the flexibility that's made you so good over the last three or four years. 100% agree with you.

And I think it's interesting because Belichick has been known for so long to be playing the long game. But I mean, the other part of the Patriot way is that Tom freaking Brady is there. So, I mean, I think that this is not so I think people thought that this is going against sort of the Patriot ethos,

but like Tom Brady is the Patriot ethos. Yeah. Having him solve all your problems is the Patriot way in a lot of respects. Belichick being able to see two or three moves ahead on the chessboard is why the Patriots have been so good. This is not seeing two or three moves ahead on the chess board. It's like seeing the matrix and being able to predict the future. This is one step too far for being able to handle this in a perfect way. I don't know if there is a perfect way to handle it.

I mean, it's impossible. Brady, I'm sure that when Garapolo started to develop into a guy that everyone, considered a good player in that building I'm sure that two years ago they thought well Tom Brady's not going to have a goat performance in the Super Bowl two years from now I mean he's he turned 40 in August

it just it defies logic and so I think Belichick Mr. Pragmatic probably assumed that this season would be the season that the Grappalo took over then they can make a decision yeah and you're so right about the Kirk Cousins thing I'm just trying to think about where he goes Jacksonville

Well, you know, it's interesting. It's interesting. I obviously chimed in with a little Jets joke on Twitter and some folks got after me saying that like Pittsburgh could be an option. We're not thinking about enough teams. I guess was there. Yeah. Pittsburgh could be an option. Arizona could be an option. Jacksonville could be an option. But I mean, those teams don't. The difference between the reason this hurts Kirk Cousins, Pittsburgh is not going to have a $50 million offer sheet to give Kirk Cousins. Yes, they're going to be teams with CAPER. Because they're teams without $20 million quarterbacks. Right. But that's not Pittsburgh and it's probably, and Arizona is not going to, the difference between San Francisco is that they just had to pay money for a quarterback. They would give whatever. They have so much cap space, they can't even spend it.

That was going to be the difference with San Francisco. Now Kirk Cousin is going to be negotiating with teams that are a little more realistic with their spending, let's say. Yeah, Arizona will have 50 million of Palmer retires and so is Fitzgerald. I mean, they'll have money. to throw around. I'm just saying that there will be more teams in on him that I think that we consider right.

That's sort of what I'm getting at. Yeah, exactly. All right. Let's get the second down. Some of the smaller moves, but in relative to like every other NFL trade deadline, they're huge moves. So J.J.

Heads to the Eagles, Dwayne Brown lands in Seattle. Kevin, these deals feel similar to me. Just because it seems like these are two NFC contenders who kind of looked at the landscape of the league said, these are our weaknesses. these are how we can fix them and they decided to kind of go all in.

If these feel like baseball trades to me, which is kind of fun, I think that's what the NFL trade deadline should be like. Basketball or baseball or any other normal sport where it's not just guys sign and then they rot on the bench if they're bad. Yeah, I enjoy this. So let's talk about Ajai first. I think this is, you know, based on his production last year, he's always been in the news just even early on with the dolphins a season ago.

It kind of speaks to how much of a mess the dolphins are right now, the fact that they're selling off pieces in a season when we thought they might be pretty decent. And the Eagles, this is really one of their last remaining holes. They've gotten a lot out of their run game. Wendell Smallwood's them pretty good. You know,

blout's been fine. But now they get another big time running back to put behind a good offensive line and not the one he plays behind in Miami. I mean, this could have a bigger impact than I think people realize, and they didn't give up that much. So, Jai, the Miami Herald reported today, not a great influence in the locker room.

That's my understanding. Complained bitterly, and we'd always heard this thing, but complained bitterly about not getting in the ball is the phrase they use bitterly. And I wonder if it's one of these situations where he'll get to a contending team and just automatically feel better,

or he's going to need his touches. So I think it's interesting. Howie Roseman, obviously, has never had a problem taking on risk. It comes from a Mike Tannenbaum sort of school of that where risk is okay. So it's interesting that they made this deal. And so I think generally, I'm fascinated by it.

I guess they're not going to move Landry, according to multiple reports, both in the Miami Herald and ESPN, but I thought Travis Landry would be on the block too. I don't know how this changes the Eagles offense. What do you think? I think you could give them a little bit more pop. I mean, that, again, the running game is very well designed.

And I think that the infrastructure of that running game is really good. I mean, that offensive line, especially in the interior, has been excellent. Jason Kelsey is having one of his best seasons. And even without Peters, I think that they're going to be able to just make room for whoever's back there. And to get kind of a top flight running back when he's right and not having previously had one on your roster, I think that's a big deal. So I think that could be, it could be nice for them. I mean, I think that offense could take a little bit one more small step forward.

And they're already pretty dang good. You're damn right. Yeah, no, I think so. I mean, I just think this sort of reinforces the fact that, I mean, at this point, point, the eagle's getting better makes me feel better because now I can, I can buy into them. I think I was already there, but they were bad. I'm just sort of like, oh, Eagles, man. I mean, you give up a fourth round pick. And if this doesn't work out, you feel like you're a contending team. You can win a Super Bowl this year. And honestly, if he's that bad in terms of

the influence, everything else, you can cut him. There's no money left on his deal after this year. It's probably not worth it because he's making 700 grand in the final year of his contract next season. But this is not a lot of risk to maybe give them this tiny incremental step to becoming even more so the best team in the NFC. Totally agree. I just I hope that his attitude stays on the right side in Philadelphia. I'm, I, it'll at least any sort of bitterness he had will at least dissipate for a couple. You can't just immediately join a new team and be bitter. Yeah, that's true. I mean, you have to give it at least a week for you to start. It's really hard. It's really hard.

It's like when you and I joined the ringer, we gave it like six months before it has become incomplete. That's fair. Yeah, I would say that's accurate. Complete jerks to everybody. So, Dwayne Brown,

the Dwayne Brown trade in Seattle is a little bit different. You know, this isn't a running back on his rookie contract that you're not paying anything. I mean, the Seahawks gave up Jeremy Lane, a late round pick and a second round pick to go get Dwayne Brown, who is in his early 30s and does not make $700,000 a year. So this is a bigger move.

I mean, they'll have to do some cap gymnastics, probably restructure his contract to fit him in. And this is a team without a lot of wiggle room. But this is the move we've been expecting the Seahawks to make for the last three years. And this is the first time they've done it. So I just want to say one thing briefly about just the Seahawks and their way of operation before I get into the trade in itself. So last year, the Seahawks, this noted Seahawks genius, Danny Kelly was on this show. and he ripped Jeremy Lane being re-signed

and he ripped Jermaine Curse being re-signed and the Seahawks have taken both of those guys and made them the centerpieces of packages in which they acquired Sheldon Richardson and Dwayne Brown. The Seahawks are good at this and I know that they gave up picks in both of those scenarios but the Seahawks are really freaking good at this

and giving up a, you know, deferring one of the picks of 2019 there's a reason they can tend every year, man. and this is it. Well, yeah, I mean, the Seahawks are filling out like the small margins of their roster every season. And I understand that they have to do some maneuvering money wise to make that stuff happen. But when you're this good and you don't know how long you're going to be this good, that's okay.

This isn't the Saints who have a terrible side of their roster and do this all the time. This is the Seahawks who have Russell Wilson and the most complete defense in the league every year trying to figure out these tiny ways to win them Super Bowls. This is okay to me. They are pretty good at this. They're damn good at this. And so now I mean, I don't know how Dwayne Brown's going to fit in with the

offensive line in Seattle because he's played organized football before. That's true. Which is really different for most of the guys in Seattle. We're worried about continuity, but he knows how to play football. So that's the biggest barrier to the continuity issues in Seattle that makes this.

All the other guys go, what the hell is this guy doing? He's making blocks. It's, I mean, honestly, that is a position where, and we talk about this all the time, but you can't just drop a guy in and have it be a quick fix. I think in pass protection, it'll be fine because he knows how to stay in front of people. Overall,

it's going to take, you know, at least a little while for that to totally come together. But again, this is a team that's going to be around at the end of the season. So if it takes a month for him to settle a little bit, they're still going to be there. They're probably going to be in the playoffs by then. So it's okay. I mean, I think that

this is going to have an impact. And again, in an NFC where these are still probably the two best teams, the two best teams just got better. Right, exactly. And that was the point I was going to make earlier, but the Eagles, you know, it's just,

it's situation where I don't think Dwayne Brown will take that long to be an improvement just because of what the Seahawks Offit Devine looks like. And then beyond that, just, you know, Dwayne Brown missed most of the season until last week. And so, I mean,

he is just, it's not like he got in a groove with the Texans. He's uncomfortable right now. So it'll be fine for him to sort of, or in the system quickly, get up to speed. I mean, tackle's not that hard to play. I'm fine with it. I mean, again, especially in past stretches,

be on his own a lot. I mean, that's just getting in front of the guy you're blocking. I mean, games and everything else that takes a second. You're the old line guy. I would imagine it's harder for an interior alignment to adjust to a new scheme, yeah? I mean, by virtue, you're playing next to two guys. Yeah, exactly. That's just, you know, simple math.

It's twice as more complicated, especially at left tackle when you're probably not going to have a ton of help, all that stuff. But there are protections and language. And, I mean, it takes a while. to understand, but I think Dwayne Brown who's been in the league for a decade will be just fine. The only, the adjustment to the

he's going to make is learning all the different practice days they have, like tell the truth Monday and turnover. Is it Tuesday or Thursday? Every day is turnover day in Seattle. It's turnover Thursday. Turnover Thursday. Okay. So, I mean, I don't want to take a shot at Atlanta, but

whatever the Seahawks do, Atlanta does it. Yeah, exactly. So, um, Thursday. So let's, let's look at the Texan side of this just for a second. Does it make sense to trade a really good left tackle when you can't protect your quarterback and he's had to dodge traffic for eight weeks and he looks like the most exciting

player in the league? Yes, it does. I think it does as well. It just doesn't make me excited for Deshawn Watson's long term health. Yeah. So that was the other part of this. We obviously wanted to tackle. Pray for Deshaun.

Yeah. I don't, I get it. Like Dwayne Brown didn't play for most of the season. Watson still played well. But again, if you've watched him play, he's running for his life on most place. Highest pressure rate in the NFL. This will help.

Yeah. And he holds on to the ball a lot. I mean, there are issues that lead into one another in that situation. But it still is, I watch that team and I see Chris Clark trying to block people. It's like, this is not fun. I really don't want this to happen long term. I pray that they draft some sort of offense tackle with that pick or with another to help the guy who is their franchise.

at this point. Yeah. On third down, Kevin, we're going to dig into some of these other teams that are finally starting to pull away from the pack. Ten, Keenham to throw, has time. Shelton chases them down, throws to the end zone. Theelan is his own touchdown Vikings. So four weeks ago, I met with the captains, and they told me, they said, hey, we have to emphasize that we need to be six and two at the buy, okay? We need to be six and two at the buy, and we are. Hell of a job, fellas. How good time. What we saw in week eight is that, Some real contenders in the NFC are starting to emerge. And that includes those six and two Vikings.

You've got the Eagles, the Seahawks, the Vikings, the Saints, the Panthers, and the Rams, all with five wins or more. And the AFC, the Steelers and the Patriots are kind of doing what we expected them to do. So in a year where there's been so much parity, so much uncertainty, do you feel like we're starting to understand what the league is going to look like at the end here? Yeah. So I think the broader point from me is that I don't see so many teams, with so much roster talent that they're going to make a run.

So if you get up to five wins at this point, if you get up to six wins, I think generally you're going to be part of the group that pulls away because some of it, you know, the Saints, I think the Saints are okay. I mean, obviously I think we had a debate before the season about whether or not they were one of the 18 teams that could win the Super Bowl.

And my point was just that, you know, if they get a couple of defensive pieces to improve that they could. I don't think they're going to win the Super Bowl this year, obviously, but they're getting that. Marshawn Lattermore is really good. He's a game seaver at this point. And so, I mean, at this point, I'm not saying that they're pulling away from the pack as far as talent.

I'm just saying at some point you're five and two, and I don't say anybody else is going to catch you because it's that kind of year. Yeah, I don't know. I still believe in Atlanta down there a little bit. I just feel like they do have the amount of roster talent that they'd be able to make a run. But I think elsewhere around that conference, especially, I agree with you. You think about Minnesota and the NFC.

North, without Rogers, I think that the Packers are probably done there. The lions look as mediocre as you possibly can. You go out west. The Cardinals are done without Palmer, the 49ers of the 49ers, and the Rams and the Seahawks are probably just penciled into the playoffs. So I do feel like that's one of the reasons is that there's nobody hanging back that you feel like can make a jump by the end of the season. But, yeah.

And I think that these teams have started to, establish themselves as both the contenders in their division, the teams that are going to make push for the playoffs, but also who they're going to be for the second half of the year, I think that that's what we've seen from the Saints as their defense gets a lot better. The Vikings being able to manufacture this offense even without a steady answer or a quarterback. The Rams, I think, in a weird way,

are kind of coming back to the middle on both sides of the ball, but not in a way that makes them a lesser team. Their defense is getting so much better, and I know their offense isn't burning people down anymore, but they can still move the ball. So I think that even as these teams coalesce a little bit, they're not getting any worse. Most of them are getting better.

And when you consider the separation from the teams below them, I think that's the biggest deal. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's the thing. It just becomes a math problem at some point. Yep. I mean, that's it. I mean, why do you still,

I'm not saying I don't believe in them. What are you seeing from Atlanta that makes you think they can get better? Because I think, I thought it was fascinating some of the, some of the smarter folks on Twitter, smarter than me, certainly. we're saying that if you adjust the Falcons offense for for pace, for drives, all that stuff, that it's not significantly worse than last season.

In fact, in some cases, it's not worse. It's a defensive problem and just an organizational problem. They're not running a lot of plays. I think that's one of the biggest issues. When I wrote about them a couple weeks ago, they were averaging the most yards per drive. They were right there in points per drive. They just can't stay off the field on defense, which is not good. But the offense still isn't as good as it.

was. I mean, their running, the rushing offense is very good. And I think that that's a combination of stuff. They still have that same offensive line. The running backs are awesome. So when you have Alex Mac playing out of his mind. Yeah, I mean, it's hard for them to have a bad. I mean, you and I could coach the offense and they'd have a good running game. So that's kind of the thing. But their passing game when I wrote about it was 14th in DVOA. And that's just not what we expected from last season. I think that it's a combination of stuff. I mean, it's a complicated problem. I wrote about this, but there's a lack of just creativity and pre-snap stuff. I think that they haven't utilized the personnel in the ways that they did last season.

So I feel like it's there. Everything that we need to make a great offense is there. It just hasn't come together yet. And that's why I feel like they have all the pieces in a way some of these other secondary teams in the NFC don't have. The Colts are working out Josh Johnson. Great. This is your 10 of that.

I mean, how long has Josh Johnson been working out? Josh Johnson has not thrown a. passed in an NFL game since 2011. Excellent. What I think is funny, what I think is really funny is that we're in this really innovative era of NFL front office stuff

where essentially the rising cap has changed football more than anyone ever anticipated. That's why all these trades are able to happen is that the cap has gone up $40 million since 2013. Okay. And so you can just, you can find talent wherever. And I'm not saying that like the should trade for a quarterback. I mean, they have Jacoby Preset. They already did that.

But like, can we just as a football world just gets smarter than working out Josh Johnson? Like everything else has changed. Everything else has changed. The way we acquired talent, the way we evaluate quarterbacks, the way that you know, we use technology to get players

ready, all that stuff. And yet we're going back in time. We're saying Josh Johnson, yes. It really, he really is the guy. Like Josh Johnson is the third quarterback that you work out. He has been for a long time, which is amazing. The fact that that has not changed is remarkable. I remember talking to Nick Novak a couple years ago and he said that he, I think he had like some, you know, double digit tryouts where he just, you know,

kicked six balls and then they gave him a plane ticket home. I'd be very intrigued to know how many times Josh Johnson's worked out for a team. The least innovative teams. The least innovative teams, all of them. should we be to a point where it's like the first stages of an audition you try it on tape first and you send it in it's like American Idol yeah I don't understand

you don't get to see like this is financially prudent to fly these guys all over America you don't get to see Chris Ballard until until you connect on like nine of ten passes why not doesn't that seem like a slightly more efficient system the slightly more efficient system is that there

are there are a lot of quarterbacks out there and you can mine them and you can watch them and you can watch college tape you could previously never watch because of the way technology has changed and yet we're still into Josh Johnson. I'm not sure it's going to get any better, buddy. It's 2017.

All right, let's get to Ford down here. We want to look at some of those NFC teams we were talking about and kind of discuss how real they really are. I think we pretty much know who Seattle and Philly are at this point. We have the Saints, the Vikings, the Panthers, the Rams. Of that group, we've chatted about them a little bit, though. Who do you feel is the best position

to actually hang around here? If I were to guess, I mean, I think the Saints and the Vikings both have really interesting cases, but I also think they have really interesting flaws. I mean, the Vikings, at the end of the day, still have Case Keenum. And as much as Case Keenum looks like a guy who can distribute the ball well, he's Case Keenum.

And the Saints, I mean, first of all, Jubries hasn't been vintage Jewelrys. He's been good, but he hasn't been vintage Jewelries. and do I believe in that defense to hold up for the rest of the season? If I were to guess, I would say the Vikings end up winning more games of that group. I'd probably say that too. I think the Rams could win as many games as the Vikings. I don't know if the Rams are any more well positioned to actually take a shot at the Seahawks.

This is a me problem. I still don't understand what the hell is going on with the ramps. Like, I'm not. What's your confusion here? Let's try about it. I'm watching it. And I just don't know what's going up. They were all so bad last year.

Is Sean McVeigh, like, at this point, like, Sean McVeigh appears to be, if this is all not like a weird hot streak that's going to end soon, it appears to me that Sean McVeigh might be a historically good coach. I think there's a lot of factors playing into this with the Rams. One, they made so many changes on the offense. And that McVeigh is the biggest one, but that's not the only one.

I mean, we talk about the past catchers and then making moves there, going to get Cooper Cup and everything they've done with changing the entire roster of guys catching footballs. But the offensive line also has two new starters on it. I think that that's allowed the guys around them to become better. That left side before John Sullivan got hurt of Whitworth, Saffold, and John Sullivan was playing really well. So I think that is a huge departure from what they were a season ago. So you have more or less a different offense in terms of the players around Jared Gough

and one that's now run by Sean McVeigh. It could not be a bigger departure from what they were last season. And on the other side, I know that their defense was good last year. They were, I don't know, the top 10 defense, they were a good group. But now you have the same players and Wade Phillips. And I know it wasn't from the beginning, just this gangbusters sort of situation, but it is now. They're really good on that side of the ball now.

Their third in defensive DVOA coming into the last week. I mean, everything about the moves they made, was in pursuit of them being a better football team. And they all worked. I mean, they were their correct choices. Again, this is my fault. I just can't, as a football viewer, cannot comprehend what's happening in front of me.

So I don't know if the Rams or even the Vikings or the Saints actually have a real chance to knock one of those teams off. I feel like there is a gap between them. Yes, in that conference. I think Seattle... Well, I mean, I think that if Drew Breeze is Drew Breeze in the playoffs, I think they have a chance to win an absolute shootout. Let's be clear.

And they have a chance to do so. I wouldn't pick them to win. I mean, that's where we're at right now. If Seattle or if the Saints have to go into Seattle or go into Philly and beat those teams, I wouldn't feel great about it. In the AFC, is there anybody in that second tier that you think,

I feel good about them playing the Steelers or the Patriots right now? Do you mean, are you including the chiefs in that? Yeah, I guess the chiefs are in that top tier as well. Yeah. So the teams that are kind of hanging around below them, a little bit. Jacksonville. Yeah, it's not. It's not Jacksonville. I just think that we had discussion for the season.

I just think you have a ceiling with the bad quarterback, and that's that. I understand how good their defense is, but you have a ceiling with a quarterback, and that's, that's, and Leonard Fournette. Yeah, and Leonard Fournett hasn't even been healthy the last two weeks. So, I don't know, do you believe in the Titans? Not really. Not really.

They're getting outscored by like 20 points over on season. Yeah, not really. I mean, I think the Jaguars are the most dangerous team in that division. What about the Buffalo Bills? That's the other one that I just think the bills are a very solid team, but I think their ceiling is just very defined. Which is, I mean, you didn't think they're going to make the playoffs? Yeah, I do.

I think they're going to be one of the wild cards teams. I love the Bills. In a second tier, in a league with just so few reliable second tier teams, I think that's what the bills are. The bills are very reliable. Week in and week out, I think you know what you're going to get with them, especially on defense. they're very well coached

and I think that makes them better than most of the teams in that conference but again, they have such a talent efficiency when you talk about them compared to the really good teams. How do we feel about the four and four Baltimore Ravens? I don't feel good about them.

Well, because that leads me to my next question which is the only other winning team in the conference is the team they just beat by 40 points, the Miami Dolphins, who just traded JHAI and apparently are not trading Jarvis Landry, but might as well.

I could not be less excited about the Baltimore Ravens. The AFC is a disaster. So let's assume that none of the AFC West teams are going to win 10 games because at this point they're all under 500. Oh yeah, I don't, I'm not paying anything. The bills would be, this is just a projection. I'm sure the team's going to make a run and we're going to be wrong,

but the bills would be the number one wildcard team. And then one of Jaguars, Ravens or Titans one of the AFC South teams the Ravens or the Dolphins would be in contention for the second spot that's not a good conference I mean I would pick

well I guess I mean right now I probably pick the Jaggs to win that division so I don't know I mean they're both four and three I don't know but I'm just saying I think you know when we talk about why it's okay that the Patriots are 32nd and defensive DVOA and by the way 32nd and yards allowed 30 second and a lot of metrics, okay?

The reason we're able to say that is why it's okay for that to happen is because these are the competition. This is the competition. Yeah, it's the year to be a very flawed, very good team. That's exactly what it's the era. Sure. I mean, Seattle is in that same boat.

And I feel like that's the thing. I mean, even these teams with weaknesses, and I know they have between Brown now, but the Seattle still has stone problems. It's okay to be that. If you have really good parts of your team and you have that much talent, I think you're going to be okay. And that's kind of what I felt about Pittsburgh and New England all year.

And they're really showing it now. Yep. All right, buddy. Let's get into your craziest headline of the weekend. What's you got? Yeah. So I just want to get into the narrative that the Patriots really, really lost this trade because it's being floated out there a lot.

And I don't necessarily know that that's true. I mean, obviously the Brissette thing is separate from this particular trade. The Patriots are better. And anybody, maybe in the history of football, moving on from their mistakes. So I'm sure they weren't thinking about the Brissette trade when they were making this, just as far as the value judgment. We don't know. There's two things I want to discuss. Number one is we don't know what the real Patriots offer ever was.

I'm sure they were not offered two first round picks. I'm sure that if they were offered the 12th pick in the draft, I mean, I'm not even clear. And by the way, that was the Brown's pick in April. I'm not even clear that would have happened because the Browns were not in on this. There was a Michael Silver interaction with one of Hugh Jackson family members basically confirmed that the Browns weren't even on the phone for Garapolo around now. I mean, if they wanted Garoppolo, they could have had them at some point and they didn't get them. And so I think we need to just look at the fact that the Patriots got a second round pick, which is something Bill Belichick loves more than anything in the world for a guy who's played two and a half games. And I know that they had a really good quarterback situation.

Now they don't, but that's value. And that's what Bill Belichick does. He finds value. I think it's an okay trade for the paths. Yeah, I do too. And I think that the six months between the draft and now is a lot of time when you're talking about a 40-year-old quarterback. Yep. I mean, that's, I think, the most important thing is to get another half a year to look at Brady,

to see how you feel about him moving forward. That's a lot of time to build to see that. I guess the one problem is what if he follows out for? cliff like in three weeks. What if he does a Peyton Manning? What do you do? I mean, that just doesn't even seem like it's almost on the horizon. He's playing fantastic.

It didn't seem like I love Tom Brady. I don't think it's going to happen. I wrote it on merger.com. I think it's a great move. But I don't, we didn't see it happening with Peyton Manning, man. At that point, it's the conversation we've had for so long, right? Like, if you're fucked, you're fucked. If Tom Brady falls off a cliff,

you're screwed. I just don't think that you can make this decision based on that. You get a top 35 pick. There are eight games left in the season. Yep. I think that's okay. Even with the risk involved,

if he somehow does crash and burn, which I don't see happening, I just don't think you can make this decision based on that. I don't see him crashing burning either. I'm just saying, no one plays a long game quite like Belichick, and so I'm intrigued to see

what he does after this season to shore up the position. Does he draft another quarterback in the second round? Why not? Sure. I mean, again, you're getting that guy for four years at a second round price tag. You're going to have to pay Garoppolo.

How much money? So I also want to say, maybe more. Maybe Garoppolo, because you got to remember, Tom Brady is making the same cap hit as Mike Lennon this season. I'm aware. So if you're, how's Mike Lennon doing? I haven't checked it on that way. I haven't seen Mike Lennon in a while.

I don't know how he's doing. There's John Fox. If you, if you're Jimmy Garapolo, You're asking for more. Yeah. You're asking for more. And so that's part of the salary problem. And obviously,

there's an uncertainty about whether Jimmy Garoppel will be, or the guy you pick will be anything close. Jimmy Garoppel, everything else. But by doing this again, you're essentially just hitting the reset button. Rookie contracts. This is a game of rookie contracts now.

That's what it is. It is a quarterback and contracts league. That is all that matters. All right. It's time for my ringer of the week. It's the guy who impacted the game in a way that may have not been obvious. And I think that I'm going to go with Jerich McKinnon this week. And I feel like he's an interesting guy because of what we thought was going to happen

to the Vikings offense as they started to get banged up. So San Bradford gets hurt all season. Case Keenham has to come in. Delvin Cook, who's just fantastic right out of the gate as a rookie, tears his ACL. And it's like, uh-oh, here we go again with Minnesota. I mean, they look promising, they're a fun team, and then the wheels just totally come off. And what Jerich McKinnon has been able to do has really allowed them to kind of survive that. I mean, he's been able to come in and be a focal point in both the passing game and the running game

and allow them to just sustain without Dalvin Cook. And I think that that's what has made the Vikings so interesting to me is that their offense is very reliable. You have McKinnon who's getting about 15 carries a game. getting in the realm of six to eight targets a game, catching about five or six of those passes. And then Adam Thielen is the only guy in the league who's caught five passes every single week, I think besides Antonio Brown.

So you have these guys that you know what they are. They're very reliable quantities, and the defense is exactly that. I mean, it's pretty much the entire group of players and the personnel that have made them so good over the last couple years. And I think that's what's allowed them to get by as the quarterback has been a little bit more uncertain to everything.

So, and McKinnon is undeniably talented. He's a 25-year-old running back. He's in his fourth season. These are the type of guys that you love having on the back end of your roster, just in case something goes wrong. And I know they gave Latavius Murray all that money, but that hasn't mattered. McKinnon has been the guy that's allowed them to get by.

Yep. Latvius Murray is not good. No. And McKinnon has been. And I think that these are the type of players that can help save your season. When you lose a guy that you expect to be the star and who's going to carry you on offense, and somebody else can come in and just say,

I got this. I mean, he's not Delvin Cook, but the drop off has been not, has not been enough that they've lost enough on offense to kind of knock them out of this. Latavius Murray basically has sucked in seven of eight games, but then in the seventh game had 113 yards. Every time he touches the ball,

I'm like, okay, when's the small guy coming back in? I like him better. Man, those are my thoughts. Remember when we thought he was good? He had a thousand yards. He had a thousand yards in 2015. I never thought he was good. I was very excited about watching that running game without him.

In Oakland? Yes, in Minnesota. He had a thousand yards. Yeah, I, yeah, I was never excited about him. When they drafted Dalvin Cook,

I was like, okay, thank you. I'm glad that's the answer here. He's from Central Florida. So, all right, coming up, Danny is going to help explain

how the Patriots and Bills are putting it together on both sides of the ball. Plus, we'll offer our last. lasting impressions from week eight. But first, let's take a quick break. Miller Light is brewed not only to taste great, but also be less filling. It's brewed with only 96 calories, so you can enjoy it from one game through the next.

It's been the original light beer since it's first showed up in the stands back in 1975. I tend to lead things to the last minute, Kevin, but if you do that for Halloween, that means you end up rummaging through the dregs of the party store bins trying to scrounge up a costume that will work, any costume. Are you going to be Mike Lennon again? Yeah, I mean, it's not hard to do. I think I already look a little bit goofy, so I can get there pretty fast.

When it comes to booking a hotel, though, being last minute actually works in your favor if you've got the Hotel Tonight app. You can book a room at a really cool hotel on the day of, or you can use the Hotel Tonight to book up to seven days in advance. Even book up to 100 days in advance in certain major cities. With Hotel Tonight, you'll bag a sweet deal at a killer hotel. Whether you need a room for Halloween or beyond,

you definitely want to download the Hotel Tonight app. Last chance for the Chargers. Down by eight. Throws it. Interceptive. And it's over. The pick by Jones and the Patriots hold on. And now we're welcome by Danny Kelly. Danny Jonathan Jones sealed a win over the Chargers with that pick.

Another solid defensive effort from the Patriots, which is very bizarre. Somehow, is the Patriots defense suddenly okay? That's what I'm wondering. I mean, okay, first of all, I think the new DVOA ratings came out today and the Patriots are still dead last. But I think over the last four games, they've given up less than 13 points per game. It's, they've actually improved pretty significantly, I think. And even with losing Dante High Tower, I think, you know, they have a chance to kind of clean things up. Like, we talked about a few weeks ago, Kevin, like, maybe they actually can kind of clean things up.

I'm starting to have faith in Belichick and Patricia to sort of figure out what they were doing wrong. and, you know, at least get back towards average, and I think they've done that over the last few weeks. What kind of stuff have you seen from them? Is it secondary? Is it anybody in the front seven that's playing better? I mean, what stuff have they just specifically done a little bit better than they have before? Well, I think Kyle Van Nuoy has been a factor for him.

You know, losing High Tower, I think, is a big deal. Obviously, he's one of their most versatile players. If you look last week, they kind of moved him around and in the High Tower role, and he played pretty well. He's rushing off the edge a little bit, playing in the middle. They kind of did the committee thing at linebacker to get everyone involved, to Landon Roberts, some of the other guys. And I think, you know, they've done pretty well.

Malcolm Butler's played a little bit better. I think that's been big. Obviously, he gave up a touchdown later in the game. But if you looked at, I saw NFL NextGen stats. They're really avoiding him. The Chargers kind of just went to the left all the time. And so just overall, and it's kind of what Bill, check has been saying, it's like you just start to get better incrementally throughout the year.

Like everyone starts to know their job a little bit better. I don't think it's anything major. But I think it's just everybody kind of coming together. And, you know, the defense has picked up the offense a little bit because in this last game, you know, I think the Patriots were, oh, I don't know what they were in the red zone, but it wasn't good. I think they only scored one touchdown on the red zone trips all game. And, you know, they missed two field goals. And so they were struggling a little bit on the offensive side of the ball.

and the defense finally picked them up a little bit. Yeah, and I think that the defense has been good enough. And that's the question, right? Could the defense be good enough to help not spoil the rest of that roster? I think the other side of that is in those ugly games, and I feel like we've talked about this a lot over the course of the year and how much these deep stable of talented rosters ends up mattering. I think it's a game like this where it does.

The fact that the offense is not clicking, they're not moving the ball at will, but they can find ways to move the ball with those running backs in the passing game and just having so many different avenues I think is what makes the Patriots and teams like the Steelers that much more dangerous when these games get close

when they get ugly. I really likes their game plan this week. It was like get the ball out as fast as possible to, and we've talked about Melvin Ingram and Joey Bosa. Just get the ball out really, really fast and mitigate how much those two guys can take over a game.

And we saw that. I think, you know, their running backs were really heavily involved in the passing game, like you said. And it just makes sense. I mean, and that's what we love about the Patriots is the game plan kind of changes every week. They cater it to what they're facing. And, you know, obviously, Brady is the ultimate facilitator of game plans. Like, everyone can have a game plan, but you have to be able to run it. And Brady's kind of that guy that can just, you know, he can change on the fly.

And he's so good at reading defenses and figuring out what's going on before the snap that, you know, that's what makes them so. dangerous. But yeah, overall, I mean, I just think that they're, they're sort of going in the right direction in terms of balance. I don't think their defense needs to be great. I think their defense needs to be average. And they seem to be going in that direction. That could be huge for them. All right. Staying in the AFC a little bit, the bills continue to look pretty dang good. We've talked about their defense a little bit today. The offense is clicking now too. Danny, what have you seen from them on that side of the ball that leads you to believe that they are very legit wild car contender? I mean, obviously there's a huge caveat in this, this

discussion because they've faced off against the Bucks and the Raiders the last two weeks. So it's like two of the worst defenses in the NFL. But it's really, I think you've got to be really encouraged if you're the bills right now, because the run game has started clicking. You know, they've started mixing in it. And I was reading about it today. And I think they've started being more multiple like they were last year. And that was one of the reasons they were so hard to defend last year.

They were the best rushing team in the NFL, even better than the Cowboys, which is kind of crazy to think about. And it's because they mix power, they mixed outside zone, inside zone. They did some Wildcat stuff and the read option stuff. They have like this huge, you know, just repertoire of runs that they can go to. And they've started doing that again. I don't know why it took them so long. But, you know, mixing that different stuff and catering.

Again, it's catering your game plan to the defense that you're facing. I think it's really started, you know, come together for them on offense. And if McCoy can be that guy that's busting open, long runs late in the game when you kind of wear teams down, I think that makes them really dangerous because, like you said, the defense has been playing really well. I think it gives them a chance to win each week. And yeah, I mean, this Buffalo run game, it's just, I feel like it's just too good to be where it was in the first part of the year. I think we're starting to finally see who they really are.

And so obviously, you know, you have to take into account the defenses they play. But I'm pretty confident that they're starting to find themselves again in terms of that run game. I just want to say I compare my big thing all offseason was comparing the bucks and the Raiders favorably, but it turns out the only comparison is they just get murdered by the bills. Yeah, that's the only thing similar about them. They're just super disappointing. I get depressed watching them. They both got fucking dunked on by the bills.

Hey, Lashon McCoy only averaging 3.8 yards per attempt. And his yards perception is down in receiving as well? So when you say that you think that they have to be better than they were in the second half, is that just McCoy is going to have an uptick? Yeah, I mean, I think he has to. And I was looking at a stat here. In his first five games, he had 279 rushing yards. and no touchdowns,

and then in the last two, he's got 242 yards and three touchdowns. So obviously they're going in the right direction. And I mean, I think obviously he's a talented enough guy to, you know, carry that offense, be the guy that they can lean on for the foundation of that run game.

Tyrod Taylor, I think, is talented enough to make a few, you know, kind of magician plays like we saw last week. He's got this great little spin move reset behind the pocket that is like Russell Wilson-esque. It's kind of Tony, Romo-esque gets, you know, sort of spin away from pressure and reset.

You know, he gives them a chance with, he's not a prolific guy by any means, but he doesn't turn the ball over. And, you know, if they have that rushing game, I think that can be, they can be really balanced. So I like, I love McCoy. I think he's a great player.

And, you know, they're getting better blocking up front. They got Cordy Glenn back, as long as they don't trade him. But yeah, I think they're, they're a really interesting team down the stretch. They have such a defined identity in a way that I really appreciate.

They know what they are on defense and they know that it's about Tyraud Taylor and LaShaul McCoy just finding one or two big plays on offense and that's what they're going to try to do every week. Absolutely. That, again, we've talked about a little bit today. That ceiling is not that high just because they're never going to be consistently good on offense. But just that recipe, I think, gives them a shot every week. And that is more than you can say about most of the teams in the league right now. For real, for real. And it's, this is another, I don't really know how you can measure this.

but like if you're when I was watching rewatching their game like those guys are going crazy on the sideline. I know that like, you know, everyone's excited about big plays and all that, but it just does feel like they've got this new culture, this new like identity in Buffalo right now. And I think they're very confident. You know, that's, you know, again, it's not measurable or anything like that. But it kind of, they just have a different vibe this year. Yeah, I totally agree. When you consider the fact that they weren't set up for this year that they have another second round pick next year, another first round pick next year. I mean, it feels like they're headed in a very good direction.

No matter what happens for the rest of this season, I think you've got to feel pretty good about the bills. I had a good conversation with Sean McDermott in the preseason about his training and he like kickboxes and does MMA and stuff. And so a couple weeks ago, I was just walking by this place and they had like kickboxing like L'MA classes. And so I was like, oh, McDermott like spoke so passionately about it that I was like, I should do this.

I like working out. So I sent up for the class. I am the worst kickboxer in the history of the fucking world. What are you bad at? I'm bad at kicking. I'm bad at kicking. I'm really good at punching because I do boxing all the time. I'm great at punching,

but that's not really the point of the class. The point of the class is different kicks and stuff and I'm just functionally bad at kicking. So is it that you can't raise your leg high enough? No, I can do that. I can't generate the power. I don't understand the machinations of it. I don't think I would either.

Like you have to be up on your, on your toes on the opposite foot and you have to like hinge your hips. It's very, it's really, because it's one of those things that seems easy. You just kick the bag, but it's not. I'm pretty sure I could not straighten out my leg enough to be a kickboxer.

See, I'm so inflexible, so I think I'd be okay at that part of it, but the balancing part of it, that's a little more concerning to me. Generating power is impossible. Yeah. And this is all to say that Sean McDermott is the best athlete in the world. Clearly.

And it's coming through. Danny, thank you very much. We always appreciate it. Congratulations. on Dwayne Brown. I hope you're feeling good about that. Oh, man. Yes.

I'm feeling, feeling it. I'm looking forward to it. It's a big day for you. I mean, finally, after our long, strange walk in the wilderness,

the Seahawks have a left tackle again. It's amazing, man. It's amazing. Can't wait. Congrats, buddy. I'm sure you're going for

Dwayne Brown as Halloween, which you have fun. Absolutely. All right, talk to you guys. See, yeah. All right, Kevin,

before we get out of here, we wanted to offer our last thing impressions from week eight. What are you going with this week? Yeah, I'm going to go with the fact that, and I allude to this because the story had just come out on Friday, but I wanted to revisit it. The NFL is political, and they would consider it a problem, is not going away. The ESPN story detailed basically how out of touch some of the owners are. And I think that the most important takeaway is that they had a meeting to try to get politics out of the football, and they ended up putting more politics into it with how poorly they handled it.

And so the players coalition, the Malcolm Jenkins led effort needs to have more communication with the owners. They were going to try to put a meeting together from one day that didn't happen. I think it's really, I think these next couple of weeks are really crucial just as far as opening lines of communication. Having the owners actually listen because it doesn't seem what they're doing a whole lot of listening. I think that the biggest, I've covered this league for five years now, and I've never seen a temperature like there is right now between the owners. and Roger Goodell. That Adam Schaefter report on Sunday, they basically said that there's owners

who think that he shouldn't be certain, the Goodell shouldn't be surviving these messes. That is unfreakened when you consider all of the things that Roger Goodell has gone through unscathed. And so I think that the, the Goodell versus the owner's thing is something we're not talking early enough about

and I'm fascinated by it. And this weekend, I think, could go down as a massive weekend as far as, as being the start of a change, not with Cadell's job status, but maybe takes a lower pay cut

that leads to something else. Maybe his disciplinary powers reduced and spread out. I'm not sure, but I do know that the things I saw over the weekend are going to end up being massive. I mean, we assume that at a certain point, maybe things would die down, and then with that ESPN story last week, the exact opposite happened. I mean, the Texans response

was what you expected, and I feel like it's what they should have done. It's a trade, trade Dwayne Brown, who is the most I mean, obviously, I mean, yeah, that's somebody who was probably the most vocal player about any of this. But, I mean, talking about their response on Sunday. No, no, I know. That was, even if we expected to see it, it was no less kind of jarring and like, wow. Like, that is, that's a site we've never seen.

And I think that the players afterward, it's not as if that was the end of it. I mean, everybody that was talking about it in the locker room, apparently was saying that we're going to keep discussing this. I mean, there was no indication that the Texans were done after that show of Solidary before that game. This is kind of just the beginning, I feel like. Yep. What kind of stuck with me from the week and just from the first half of the season, really, as we kind of get to the midway mark here, is that along with there being some surprising teams, some dark horse candidates just to win the Super Bowl, it feels like, there have been the

same kind of pool. There's been the same kind of pool within the MVP discussion. I think that this year has been a time for new players when we didn't necessarily expect it. It felt like the same kind of teams are going to be around, and then you have guys like Carson Wentz. Deshawn Watson is maybe the most exciting player in the league. And the Chiefs were the best team in the league for the first six weeks of the year. So it feels like right now, I can't remember an MVP race that has involved this many new faces and also been this uncertain halfway into the season. I don't think anyone would be surprised if the Patriots won 13 games and Tom Brady won the MVP.

But also, it feels like Carson Wentz is absolutely the frontrunner right now. So the fact that anything is on the table for the last eight weeks as we try to figure out who was the best player in football over the course of an entire season, that seems like a new environment. And it makes every game that much more exciting when you've got to consider the landscape of who the stars are. And I don't know who it's going to be. And I honestly don't even have that many good guesses. And that's exciting to me. And I'm very excited to watch it. I think I figured out the MVP thing.

Remember I joked about Jake Cutler was the most valuable player after they lost 40. That's it. Just give a joke. No, no, no, no. It's Ryan Tannehill. That's fine with me. Think about it. Yeah, you probably are wrong. I mean, it is to get it. It's Eric Rogers, but Ryan Tandhill's number two. Oh, right. Well, we haven't, I haven't seen enough just absolute horseshit play from the Packers yet because they were at a couple months. Give it a month. Oh, no, no, no. I know that. But I'm just saying as my midseason MVP is Ryan Tannhill. That's fair. I'm totally okay with that. All right, guys, that's it for today. We'll be back on

Friday to get everyone set for week nine. Always, thanks for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. Thanks, guys. You can play it by ear and see how your Halloween goes, or if you're the type who started planning your Halloween costume on November 1st of last year, and you like to have things locked down ahead of time, you can actually book a room with Hotel Tonight seven days in advance, even book up to 100 days in advance in certain major cities. With Hotel Tonight, you'll bag a sweet deal at a killer hotel.

Whether you need a room for today, for Halloween, or beyond, you definitely want to download the Hotel Tonight app.