The Ringer NFL Show - Imagining a Trevor Lawrence-less AFC, the Unstoppable 49ers, and More Big Takeaways from Week 13 | Extra Point Taken

Episode Date: December 5, 2023

Sheil and Ben return to share their takes on the Bengals' grueling overtime win over the Jaguars on ‘MNF’ and discuss the implications of Trevor Lawrence’s apparent ankle injury. Next, they see the 2023-24 season as Kyle Shanahan’s to win, and debate the playoff success of the team that employs Bill Belichick next year (15:30). Sheil then takes a hard look at both the coaches on the hot seat and the teams around the league with future coaching vacancies, while Ben gives big flowers to the Rams’ Les Snead (37:06). They end the pod by breaking down the Jets' consistent woes, shining a light on some unlikely end-of-season outcomes, and examining the MVP race (56:08). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Ben Solak Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Social: Kiera Givens and Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Rigger Gambling Feed is back every Monday. Join myself, Joe House. Rahim Palmer and John Dershepsie for East Coast Bias. Sunday's action recap and our favorite bets for Monday night football. Then on Tuesday we got the Rastodemann Show where I'll break down everything you need to know in the betting world. Plus the East Coast Bias boys will be back on Thursday to help you get your betting card sorted ahead of all the NFL action. And then on Fridays it's me back with Warren Sharp, deep diving into the analytics. So be sure to subscribe on. Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

Welcome to Extra Point Take at Shield Capati here, joined by Ben Solac following a Monday night football overtime thriller the Cincinnati Bengals take down the Jacksonville Jaguars in a big upset 3431.

We'll get to the win, but we'll also get to the big news, which is that Trevor Lawrence goes down with a reported ankle injury in the fourth quarter of that game, potentially huge implications in the AFC. And then, of course, we'll get to everything else that happened in week 13. So, like, is your head spinning, my head spinning? You could tell from that intro.

Yeah. How about that? I didn't think we had that in the cards, if we're being honest. A lot of outcomes for that game I could see. I didn't really see that one. I do want to read as the appropriate response here. I got an email two weeks ago from Ryan Harlan, Folsom, California, who said, Ben, I'm sending this to you from a gym in Folsom, California,

where I'm hearing you on Ringer NFL show. This smirch the great name of our local legend, Jake Browning. I'm looking forward with great interest to hearing her Mea Culpah in six to eight weeks when Jake is leaving the Bengalsville playoffs, so they will never really lose immediately. Ryan emailed me as the kick was going in to win overtime with a follow-up that he says, Folsom in all caps, which I'm from what I'm understanding is where he's from where Jake Browning is from.

So thank you, ex-pat Ryan, for emailing in and calling your shot that I was too hard on Jake Browning. I'll deliver a Mayo Colpa now because I think this might be

the peak of the Jake Browning experience. I'm not sure it's going to get better than this. But man, Jake Browning, over 350 passing yards, over 80% completion percentage. First UDFA to do that in the common NFL era.

You had over 10 yards per attempt by the time regulation ended. Like, this was a decently real performance on the backup quarterback scale. There's a lot of very fake backup quarterback performances and certainly when Jamar Chase is out there solving problems for you there's only a certain degree of

realness you can achieve but in general for a guy who was very unknown who didn't have any start to when he first went out for Burrow there was criticism like you have to take QB2 more seriously you have to have more established guys routing us really I thought over the last few weeks and certainly with this winning against the Jaguars cemented himself

as no legitimate quarterback too who's like I don't think the Bengals are going to make the play else, but I do think he's going to be able to keep Cincinnati afloat and keep them competitive. They have the Browns, they have the Steelers, they have the Chiefs. They have enough games to make this weird, enough games to hang in this picture, not a couple teams out and to stay mathematically speaking, percentage-wise, in the race. Now, the Browning performance probably tells us more about this Jaguar's defense, though, than it does anything about the bank.

How are you, I'm shot, how are you going this long with that? We're good to go to Trevor Lawrence. I'm shocked here that these are your takeaways from the game when Trevor Lawrence could potentially be out for the season in the AFC? I don't know yet. Like the thing is like, okay, here's the Trevor Lawrence take. If he's out for the season, the Jaguar season is ruined. If he's not, the Jaguar season is okay.

Like, that's what it is, right? Yeah, I mean, potentially. I mean, but it opens up all sorts of implications, I think, in the AFC. Who's winning the AFC South? Who is playing quarterback for playoff teams in the AFC? I mean, you have Joe Burrow on one sideline here. You have Trevor Lawrence out. on the other side line here, you have all these

quarterbacks in the AFC who have gone out, you have potentially Josh Allen and Justin Herbert not even making the playoffs in the AFC. It's just another domino that has fallen in what has been a very hard to predict season and a wild season with what we'll

have, I think someone said four out of seven, if the playoffs started to say four out of seven teams in the AFC would be playing their backup quarterbacks. Yeah, 11 teams right now, as we currently see it, AFC and NFC combined. are on their backups for one reason or another, most of which are injury.

Quarterback, too, man, an important spot on your roster all the time. The Lawrence thing is like, if they had said, yeah, high ankle sprain, he's going to be out for three weeks, and then, you know, we'll seem to end the season.

Then I think there's stuff to talk about. You start to look at the schedule and try to figure out, okay, you know, Jaguars, they already split it with Houston, but they have a better conference record, and so they're probably going to be able to still hold the division and whatever.

But we don't know. So it's all just like if-then's at this point. I think that while the initial look of Lawrence reacting on the field and coming off the field was really harrowing. Tom Palisero tweeted out that they think it's an ankle sprain, he's going to have an MRI tomorrow and get more information. We're not going to know enough about his availability. The division is far from locked, obviously, from the Jaguars.

They're eight and four. The Texans and the Colts are both buying them at seven and five. And so any week that he misses puts this division in more and more jeopardy. But we've got to see what that's going to end up looking like. I mean, Lawrence has played on banged up legs before this season, previous seasons. He's a, he's a tough son of a gun, Trevor is. And so I wouldn't be surprised if he's pushing a play back faster than this injury would imply at first brush. They're at Cleveland next week. Then they've got the Ravens at home. Yeah, to your point, we are recording right

after the game ended. So if any definitive news breaks on what the actual injury is, how long he's potentially out, obviously we'll get to that during the show. But yeah, it was what, 525 left in the fourth quarter there. Walker Little gets pushing. back, it rolls up, you know, steps on Trevor Lawrence's ankle. Then he gets bent back and then all of it. You know, Trey Hendrickson's trying to help him up. Afterwards, I always like to look at the players' reactions because, you know, they can kind of know, they can tell the way a guy reacts, how serious it is.

He tries to help him up. Lawrence can't get up, goes back down, slams his helmet to the ground. You kind of hear the noises in that stadium from Jaguar's fence. And then as many pointed, many people pointed out. So like, no cart in Jacksonville? I mean, there's two trainers helping Trevor Lawrence all the way back. He gets an x-ray there as C.J. Bethard comes in. So, yeah, I mean, you know, not to, you're right.

I mean, a lot of times with these quarterback injuries, it's like, all right, there's not much analysis to it. If Trevor Lawrence is out for the rest of the season, if Trevor Lawrence is out four to six weeks, guess what? The Jaguar season is pretty much over and it sucks. And we look ahead to next season, but I didn't see that Tom Pelliserro tweet. So maybe there's some hope that it's. not as bad as it initially seemed and he'll be back in there for him.

Do you have any on Nathan Rourke takes for the people? Do I have any who takes? Not Nathan Rourke guy? Not dialed it on CFL legend, Nathan Rourke? I have a Nathan Fielder take. I enjoyed the first episode of the curse which we said, no, Nathan Rourke, I do not. Is he on their roster? I can't bear to watch

the Nathan Fielder stuff. I can't do cringe comedy. It destroys me. It's far too much. Rourke is the QB3 for the Jags. Wasn't dressed tonight. He's a CFL goat. He's the guy in the preseasoner at that, like, insane throw where he got, like, sacked four times, like, fell over. God, I'm on to remember this. Okay, I do remember that.

Roark has a big cult following in Jaguar's football fandom and in just general insane football fandom. I would like to see some Roark snaps this season. That would please me. Okay, there you go. All right, now I will let you get to your actual takes about the game. I'm worried that the Jack's defense couldn't stop Jake Brown. That feels bad. That's all I wanted to say.

No, that's true. I thought that was a very reasonable thing to say. Yeah, I think that's fair. you know, give Browning credit to what you said there. But 491 yards, So lack, for the Cincinnati Bengals tonight against that Jaguar's defense. I mean, yeah, the Browning numbers are ridiculous. 32 for 37 for 354 in a touchdown. They were going up and down the field against that defense, which was what,

fifth and defensive DVOA coming in, which you and I have just said week in and week out, we don't care what the numbers say we're not buying that Jaguar's defense. I mean, what do you think when you watch a game like that? like, all right, this is why I don't buy them. What did you see from them that was concerning or not concerning going forward? I just think that every time I've fully bought the idea that Darius Williams is actually a solid outside corner, and Taz and Campbell is actually a corner one. Every time they get me, they immediately pull the rug out from under me.

I'm like, fine, I believe you now. Like, had a couple of good weeks, flash plays. Yep. And then they just have a performance like this. I'm like, shoot. And I'll be, I'll be doubting them. and I'll be picking wide receivers against them in fantasy and trying to fade them.

And then they'll have three guys. Okay, Darius Williams is back to being good now, I guess. And then it'll just pull the rug out from under me again. Like that, to me, is the, is the, the frustrating mercurial aspect of this team. Also, like, I've been big on the, maybe I need to apologize to Devin Lloyd. This was not a banner, Devin Lloyd game. Yeah, they just, they tend to have some peaks and some valleys. And Mike Caldwell, Todd Bowles, Blitz-oriented guy lives on peaks and valleys.

This is a volatile defense. They are performing well over all this season. They're still a good defense in the aggregate, but they are volatile. And we probably don't do enough Brian Callahan appreciation in the Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase, T. Hagan's world for the Bengals. But Brian Callahan is pretty regularly, comes out with good plans against good D.C. He's over the course of several years now reliably come out with stuff that works against the guys who usually cause the average office coordinator trouble.

He's a good response guy, a good chess player. Obviously, the Tyler Boyd chess move, not a good chess move. should probably let Jake Brown and keep cooking. But overall, a good performance in that regard. They got Chase Brown a little bit more activated, which they really haven't been doing much of the RV2 thing, but they did a little bit more of a committee today and got paid off for it. So some nice stuff for them on offense.

I enjoyed that. I will say Jaguars defense, dude. No, like it's week 13. Usually there's like, oh, we're missing this guy. We're missing that guy. They weren't missing anyone. This is the whole unit right here. That's bad.

I don't know how you don't too much about that. Yeah, no, I think it's definitely concerning. I mean, if Trevor Lawrence, you know, played this whole game and whatever happened, I think that still would have been the takeaway. Like, is this, you know, defense going to be good enough? Now you always like to zoom out and look at the bigger sample. And overall, they've absolutely exceeded expectations this season. I thought they were going to be one of the worst defenses in the NFL. They have not been, they've been very good for most of the season.

But, yeah, that was just a very concerning performance there. And I'm seeing on my TV screen here, yeah, Lawrence will undergo. testing on ankle on Tuesday, according to ESPN's Adam Schaefter, which I guess is the same as the Pelliserro report. So, you know, by the time you listen to this, we probably still won't know what state Trevor Lawrence is in. All right. So this Bengals team, let's finish on this before we move on. I mean, was that performance good enough to make you say, AFC is kind of wide open? They're six and six. They've got the Colts. They've got the Vikings at the Steelers, at the Chiefs,

and then the Browns at home. So what? To get in the mix, three and two over that stretch? I mean, I watched Jake Browning last week, and again, a shout out to Folsom there,

and I thought, you know what, they have no chance. I mean, their best plays were passes that were deflected that Jamar Chase came down with. This was completely different.

I mean, you felt in the first possession, like, all right, they're going to dig and dunk, they're going to try to scheme it up, and then they adjusted, and he pushed the ball downfield, and he made that throw to,

to Jamar Chase. And like you said, I mean, Jamar Chase, just incredible. 11 catches on 12 targets for 149 yards. I mean, really just put the offense on his back to a degree in this game. How interesting are you on a scale of 10? We're going to be talking about Jake Browning as the next Nick Foles, six weeks from now. And one being Shield, calm down.

They're not doing anything. This team has no chance to get to the playoffs. I'm like a two. Like I'm not, I don't think that low. Okay. Yeah, I would probably have three. Like this, he looks good in this game. I don't think he's going to look good in every game.

I don't think the Bengals had this cooking on their bench and nobody knew about it. I also watched Jake Browning at the University of Washington. I know you. I know you. You're not. This is not, this is the best I've ever seen Jake Browning look by a lot. I, I, if they were in the NFC, I think I would be higher on it. But they are just, the AFC is just a slough.

just a mess of six and six teams and seven and five teams. And then they all play in each other. Like I said, the Bengals still have the Steelers. They still have the Browns. Like they have divisional games that they're going to have to get over the hump of. That's a scary thing to think about. Like,

I think I would much rather bet on the teams who have their starting quarterbacks to make that AFC wildcard race than the teams who don't, which. Those teams are shrinking. Yeah, which somebody who wisely said the bills are still making the playoffs. Uh, uh, Steelers,

no, Kenny Pick it. You got the, The Texas of Colts is 7 and 5. But you have the Browns drop a game. Bill's 6 and 6th. They're still around, man. Still alive.

I have a feeling we're going to be talking about that on the Friday show as we look ahead to Bill's chief. So listen, credit to the Bengals coaching staff. You mentioned Brian Callahan, certainly to Zach Taylor. You know, you have those injuries to star quarterbacks. And a lot of time, your season just goes in the tank. And you're not competitive. And everyone's checked out. And you're waiting for one, two, three can't.

before week 18. And they didn't do that. Oh, the first one, two, three, Cancun of the season. Must be December. What a life. There's a lot more where that's coming from. And they didn't do that. I mean, listen, this is impressive.

If you're a Bengals fan and even if they don't make the playoffs, guess what? They gave you a nice, entertaining Monday night football game where you're proud of your team. You're proud of all the supporting pieces around Joe Burrow as you look to this next stretch when he comes back in the next year and the years ahead as your quarterback. and you can say, you know what, this team has something to them. They don't just fold when the quarterback goes down. And listen, that's cool for Jake Browning.

I mean, regardless of how the rest of his career plays out on Monday night football, eat through for 354, five incompletions. I mean, 32 for 37 in this game, again, just going up and down the field, helping lead the Bengals to a victory. All right, well, we'll obviously talk more about that Trevor Lawrence injury this week on the Ringer NFL feed as we get more. details, maybe Nora and Stephen, on the next episode, and we'll certainly talk about it on Friday. Anything else? Any last word on this game, Solack, or should we move on?

No. That Jaguars where it spent 10 years or seven years not being on Monday night football, and they're about to spend a long time with a performance like this, of a long time not making Monday night football, man. If Lawrence is out for the season, does Doug Peterson call Nick Foles and Frank Wright and say, what the heck, let's give it a shot? Run it back, boys. We're getting the pan back together, the sequel. Maybe. All right. All right, we'll move on. My first take, and it's so weird, because like, you go through a Monday Night Football game like that, now like all the other takes

feel so old. It's like those other games happen so long ago. Everyone's already got their takes out. But you know what? That's the nature of the show. So we're not going to apologize for it. My first take, Benjamin, I think this is Kyle Shanahan's year. And I think the 49ers are going to win the Super Bowl. Get the hay in the barn, baby. I mean, I finally got there this weekend watching that game. I mean, they've been so close with Shanahan. They've been in the championship game three of the past four years. And I should caveat it with, we'll see what happens with injuries. I mean, this game is a reminder, and I hate saying it because it's like no one's stuff. But yes, there will be injuries between now and week 18 that will impact the landscape of both

conferences. But last week, Ben, you went over the teams, you know, that could get to the Super Bowl. And we did a little extra or that could win the Super Bowl. We did that little exercise, right? How many are there? How many in each conference? And we named three teams that the 49ers have played. The Eagles, the Cowboys, and the Jaguars. And the 49ers have beaten those three teams by a combined 86 points. And average of 28 points, those three teams.

Again, those are legit Super Bowl contenders they beat. And you just look at that game against the Eagles. And it's like, you know, there's a lot of talking Philadelphia today. All right, you know, what should defensive coordinator Sean Desai have done differently? And it's like, I just looked at that game and it's like, defensive coordinators against the Niners have to decide what can they live with? What do they want to take away? And there are no good answers. I mean, there really are no good answers.

They scored touchdowns on six straight possessions in that game. It was the second best offensive performance by any team all season in terms of EPA per drive. So I'm looking at this version of the Niners, the weapons that they have, how Shanahan is deploying them. Brock Purdy's kind of mastery of what Shanahan wants him to do in addition to pushing the ball down field and being more aggressive and having a little bit of that creator to him that Jimmy Garapolo did not have. I was looking at some kind of numbers historically to try to put this into context. Last 10 years, this offense, this 20-23-9ers offense has the highest success rate of any offense in the last 10 years right now if they sustain this pace. I mean, we have a lot.

have seen some great offenses during that span. This offense is producing a positive play at a higher rate than any of those. So I could bore you with, you know, 500 other numbers. You could trot out with this 49ers offense. But to me, the bottom line is like, I don't think there's any stopping them for the duration of a game, like forcing them to go three and out, forcing them to have 260 yards. Maybe once in a blue moon, the Browns did that. No other team has done that.

They're beatable, obviously. You got to get some turnovers. you got to get some negative plays, you've got to get some luck. But aside from that, I just feel like they look kind of as unstoppable as any team in the NFL right now. And I've gone through most of the season saying there's not a juggernaut. It's a weird season. I mean, if there is a juggernaut in the NFL right now, I think it's this Niners team. And I think they've got a great shot to get Kyle Shanahan's first ring with this version of the 49ers.

Yes. You agree. Have you been there for a while? No. Like I'm saying if I had to pick one team right now, bet my wonderful Seattle Supersonics hat on it that they're going to win the Super Bowl. I think I'm putting that on the Niners right now.

Are you willing to go that far or no? Do you have an AFC team? Do you still believe in the Eagles? Are you giving me a little DAC ran? That's as far. That's how far I'm going right now. You have a hat on too, a hat that you like, that you wear often during the extra point taken recordings.

Nothing better than free hat. You got it for free. Well, there you got it. I learned that I got it for free that it's Justin Bieber's brand. And then I was like, do I want to be, am I promoting that? I never had any idea what it was. I was like Afri hat. It feels that it's a good hat, it's a good fit.

We're all right. We're keeping stepping. Listen, if any Folsom companies, you know, want to give a little love for Jake Browning and send us a couple free hats, we'll represent Folsom. Yeah, we're not afraid to do that. I've earned that in a negative way. So Niners are my number one with a hat on the line. What do you say?

Yeah, I think I would have to put Niners. I'm very tempted to say Ravens. I think Ravens, the argument for the team that's most complete in the league to me is is the Ravens, offense and defense. They solve a lot of problems. They can beat you a ton of different ways. But the way that you described the Niners, especially on offense, I think is critical. I think it's important.

You don't really stop this team, this offense. You can endure it. You can get down into a low red zone and then survive and force three instead of seven. You can get a key turnover, get a good field position, and then turn it around. and have that produced for you, like some big points. Even like that, okay, that Browns game, we saw against the Eagles. When the Niners face a really good pass rush,

they prioritize Debo. They always have, especially running the football, catching the ball out of the backfield. They basically say, like, hey, we're going to get this ball to the boundary to our functionally running back

who lines up out there all the time and then we're not having beat your secondary for you. And he went down on that Browns game, and it just kaputed them. Like, like, all right, we had to tuck the entire game plan into the bin and kind of make this thing up on the fly.

And then they were in scramble mode that can never recover. So that Vikings game, I think, is a great example of like, all right, like the Vikings were just insanely hot on offense. They were going punch for punch. And then eventually they got enough stops in the second half where they managed game script. And now you're putting the Niners in a spot where they have to go past. And when any team has to go past, that's when you can stop them. But you have to get the Niners there.

If they get them to that spot in the fourth quarter, it's really, really hard to. Because of the number of weapons this team has, you can't choose to just like, all right, we take away the this and then they beat us with the that. The Eagles did that. The Eagles said, we're not going to let Brock Purdy throw down the field. He had no pass 10th, and 20 yards down the field. And that's not how he likes to play. It's not how the Niners like to play with him.

They just kept him blow, kept him blow, kept him low. And the Niners said, all right, you can't tackle all of our guys, not reliably enough to beat us. And so it is not a team that you really like, paint them into a corner, beat this schematically, expose this weakness for them,

and then get them into a spot where they're not moving the ball. You just kind of choose what's going to beat you, choose what isn't, and hope you hit the bounces of the ball. And that's a really, sad reality for the rest of the NFC and the rest of the league is that the way this offense works when it's healthy, you just kind of sit there and take it on the chin for 12

rounds and hope to win the judges put the scorecard up, you got to win. Yeah, and it's, I mean, we've talked about how the Cowboys, Niners, and Eagles are probably the three contenders in the NFC. If you want to throw the Lions in there, I mean, the 49ers have killed two of those teams and this Niners offense against that Lions defense, the way they've been playing the last six or seven weeks, I mean, that is not going to be pretty. So again, listen, injuries happen. Things changed.

This is a snapshot in time, how I feel after week 13. But this was a team coming into the season where I thought are a playoff team, but I don't think they're winning the Super Bowl. We've only had eight games of Brock Purdy. He's coming off an elbow injury. And guess what? The version we've seen, if you're a Niners fan, this is like better than anything you could have even hoped for. So yeah, your question with the Ravens is a good one.

I was thinking about this earlier today, like complete team versus best unit. And I do think Ravens can probably. win in the biggest variety of ways. 49ers, I mean, their defense is playing well. I don't want to make it sound like they're one-dimensional, but I do look at the best unit. It's either the Ravens defense or the 49ers offense, probably, and I would probably lean towards the 49ers offense, the way they're playing right now, just some of the historical numbers.

Yeah, if you did give me the power to organize the Super Bowl matchup, I would pick 49ers Ravens in a heartbeat, dude. Well, those two teams play. We're going to see that in a few weeks. And I hope the power gets cut at half time. I can't wait. I think it's going to be such a fun matchup. Get whichever Harbaugh is not coached on the Ravens.

I don't remember which one's which. Get that one on the side line for the Niners again. Let's run it back. I can't wait. All right. How do you now remember which one is which one is which? Jim is the Niners one. Yeah?

Yes. Jim is the Niners one. I'm very bad with names. And you show me someone. I don't remember their names. I'll remember the first letter of their name, though. and I'll remember how many syllables it had. I'll be like, Melissa, they'll be like, no, Meredith.

Like, I can get the first letter and the general length, but I can't, I can never remember people's names. So when you have a Jim Harbaugh and a John Harbaugh, that's specifically designed to ruin my life, okay? A strange man, number of syllables, so remember. I didn't choose if it's just what ends up happening. All right, let's take a break.

We'll come back. We will get Solax. Second take. All right. We are back on extra point taken. I have no idea we're going to, we were, you know, messaging earlier today. It's like, man, I feel like I've said it. Like, I was crushing myself on my shield.

Why did you say last week that like two of these teams are going to make the past? You should have just said one of them. Save it. You could have come back this week and they had another one. Listen, we're learning. This is here too of extra point taken. So I have no idea what direction you're going with this. What's your second take of the night?

I have designed this take with the hope of pissing you off. Prepare yourself. Good. I'm excited. That's the beauty of the show. The team that Bill Belichick coaches in 2024 will make the playoffs. How do we feel about that? Are we like, that's ridiculous? Does it make any sense?

I don't know what this is. Let me walk you through. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I don't like that take. I would not agree with that take, but I want to hear more. I guess it depends what team is he coaching? I kind of a little bit don't think it does.

I obviously, I didn't want to go so far as to say the 2024. Patriots will make the playoffs. That felt too far, all right? But stick with me here. So the Patriots have lost our last three games. They have also given up 10 or fewer points in all three of those games. Teams so far this NFL season shield are 151 and 3. Excuse me, they're 51 and 3.

When they give up 10 points or fewer, all three of the losses belong to the Patriots. They're 1 in 3. It's an unbelievable stat. This is the longest streak in the Super Bowl era of football. No team had ever before lost three consecutive games while giving up fewer than 10 points in each game. Mike Sandel, the athletic, had a wonderful stat. Against the Chargers, the Patriots average drive started at the 13.9 yard line through 12,7808 games since 2000 in True Media's database. That is the worst starting field position in any given game.

Slot Ball was played in Chargers Patriots, really slot ball for the ages. However, to give up only 10 points in each game for three games is very difficult to do. And the Patriots defense is doing it without incredible talent. This is something that I think is going under state and needs to be acknowledged.

They've got Jonathan Jones and J.C. Jackson playing corner. And like, we saw what J.C. Jackson looked like with the Chargerly. This is a player who was not operating well, got to New England, and started working again. Gibral Peppers is starting safety, taking every snap. Gibral Peppers was available for nothing, right? He bounced around teams. People couldn't make him work.

This defensive line is rookie Key on White. Devon Godshaw, Christian Barmore on the inside. They have Anthony Jennings and Jalani Tavai, who, again, Tavai was a bust in Detroit. He's now working. He's playing great ball in New England. They have Jalen Mills out there taking significant stats. Mack Wilson.

These were busts. These were players who were not good. And they are right now on the season. sixth in defensive success rate, ninth in defensive EPA per drive. The Bill Belichick defense still works extremely well. I know there's so much that went into New England being bad. That's his fault from a personnel perspective and the offensive coaching, and you always talk about the coaching staff, and none of that is wrong.

But the product on the field defensively for New England this season is excellent. And this is with Matt Juden down and Christian Gonzalez down. That's tough to do. Bill Belichick remains one of the best defensive coaches in the league. So, in order for a Bill Belichick coach team to go to the playoffs, this is one of your most absurd takes.

I'm like, I'm like, there have been seven times I've had to stop myself. Okay, cut him just there. Because, go ahead, finish. No, go ahead, finish. No, no, no, I'll hear your thoughts on that. You've given me, you know, you've given me reason for him to be, you know,

like a glorified defensive coordinator for a team next year. I don't understand what to take is. Now, there's two diverging words. when the 2020 season ends. In one of them, Bill Belichick is fired as the head coach of the New England Patriots. Whichever team immediately slurps him up

because they team will, and they will make him their head coach in 2024, whether he's traded or whether he's released, whatever, will presumably, not presumably, mathematically have better offense than what the Patriots have right now.

Because what the Patriots have right now is a travesty. Bailey Zappi can't play. Mac Jones can't play. Ramandre Stevenson got hurt. They got a circle, carousel of wide receivers, tight ends, all of them on contract years,

none of them can play. Whatever offense Belichick ends up coaching that team of is going to be a better offense. I imagine wherever he goes is going to keep some more offensive power and some more offensive personnel power away from him than was established in New England.

Of course they will, because they've, A, seen the result here, and B, it took Belichick a long time to earn that sort of quietly in New England. He's not going to have that at his new location. So if the offense is just like, better wherever he ends up. If it's a league average offense

and he produces this on defense, that team is capable of making the playoffs next year, whichever team it may be. The other diverging road is the one of which he remains the coach of the New England Patriots. I don't feel as good about this one. But I will say

that the Patriots right now are the only two-win team in the leagues, Arizona Cardinals beat Pittsburgh Steelers. They are accordingly in the driver's seat for the second overall pick, which means they are guaranteed to get one of Caleb Williams or Drake May. the top two quarterbacks in the NFL draft.

I gave both players my first real scouting look this past week. I would like one of these two players. I got no problem with either. These two cats can play. Obviously, if you have the first overall pick, you get to choose. But having picked two in this draft is real nice. I got no problem with that. I don't care too much at this stage.

Who goes one? Who goes two? I feel good about it. You get a high-impats rookie quarterback, which I think both of those players can be in New England and presumably offensive coach. staff changes are made again if Belichick stays. Why not? League average offense. Just give me league average offense

with this top 10 defense and they'll be able to put actually 13 points on the board win all these games which the defense is holding opposing offenses to 10 points. Bill Belichick and the Patriots are back in the playoffs in 2024. That's the take. It's a good take. Nothing's wrong with it. This is as close as I've been to just saying, well, let's end the show. I'll see you on, I mean, there are two. A tape designed to piss you off. Okay, they're two and ten. Like, yeah, they gave up six points. They scored zero points on Sunday against the Brandon's Daily Defense,

hard to do, very hard to do. They've been outscored by 106 points this season. That is the worst mark by a long shot in the AFC. The New York Jets have been outscored by 80, and they just started Tim Boyle and played Trevor Simeon, and we'll get to them in a second. And they've been outscored by more than the New York. New York Cheds.

This has, I mean, that is such a, that is a small aspect of coaching is saying, all right, he gives you a little bit of an edge on defense, which he does get, I mean, they're, that's half the game and it's not a little edge. They're 11th in defensive DVOA. Throw the parade in Foxborough in Gillette, you know, go ahead. Okay, Route 1 right there. Go ahead. 11th in defensive DVOA, like, who cares?

That gets you nowhere. I will, I'm open enough to say, yes, he has shown he has done more with less. With that defense, especially with the injuries to Judon and Christian Gantellis, yes, I will give you their 11. Give me a break. I mean, two weeks ago, they shut out Tommy DeVito and I'm supposed to say the guy's going to bounce back and be a great coach next season. That is a small aspect of it. He's had two seasons to come up with anything on the offensive side of the ball. He goes from Matt Patricia, which everyone saw as a disaster, to then, as I pointed out, before the season,

you had your pick of basically any hot shot offensive mind in the world. they're going to pick up the phone and you went to your boy, Billy O'Brien. And guess what? The offense is even worse. You're ping ponging from Mack Jones to Bailey Zappie. Show me a worst job of developing a quarterback over the last three years than a guy who led you to like a top 10, top 12 offense as a rookie. And now the guy can't even step foot on the football field because he's so terrible in Mac Jones.

I mean, Caleb Willie, I hope Caleb Williams is listening to this. You know, you might want to pull an Eli Manning. You really want to play with this supporting cast? Have you seen the other players you have on the New England Patriots? They stink. I mean, you watch some of these other offenses. They've got talent all over the place. They've got nobody to throw the football to.

They've got no coaching staff that gives you any kind of an edge. Their special teams is among the worst in the NFL. His game management isn't that great. His personnel stuff is terrible. That's like 50% of getting Belichick right now is the person. He's put together a terrible roster. I mean, make the playoffs here. If he goes to a team that has great.

talent. I will agree that he will be able to do more with less with their defense. If he's in New England next year, even with one of those quarterbacks, they're not making the playoffs. We can already do our preseason predictions for next year. That's not happening. Listen, all you're talking about is the past. I have my eyes in the future,

baby. Listen, you say, oh, it's so terrible that he hired Bill O'Brien. I agree. But guess what? He can't hire Bill O'Brien again. He can. Who's he going to hire? Let's say he goes to Carolina or D.C. or I mean, it's going to be Josh McDaniel.

Listen, what week did I say, Bill Belichick will be coaching the Washington commanders with Josh McDaniels as his offensive coordinator? Josh McDaniels is not a bad OC. Well, if he's not managing a game, it's a very good designer. I believe without Tom Brady, he has coordinated one above average offense.

I just need an average offense. I can have an average offense. I can have a top 10 defense with Bill Bellochick. He can get you average, yeah. I can be in a playoff race. I believe I can. It's very funny. This is a little bit of a preamble to my next take,

but I was looking at Executive of the Year Awards. I always forget Bill Belichick won this award in 2021. Amazing, given where are I now? Yeah, two years ago, they were like this dude. This executive, the Mac Joe's pick. That's the kiss of death, the executive of the year award. One thing that I think does need to be said, because you were like, oh, Mac Jones,

who had such a good rookie season in 21 and it wasn't developed. I think because of the rookie season Mac Jones had, and then because of the four-game stretch, I guess, of Bailey Zapi last year, I don't think people realize just how totally dysfunctional those two guys are. This is the worst quarterback situation in the league. It is better to play Zach Wilson every week than it is to play one of Mac Jones or Bailey Zappy. Zach Wilson absolutely gives you more from an armed talent perspective and from a running around perspective.

Then Mac Jones? Yeah. Absolutely absurd comment. With how Max playing this year 100%. Zach Wilson has never done. Well, because this year you can't separate it. We have seen Mac Jones put an entire season of film on the table. is better than any one game that Zach Wilson has ever shown.

I'm talking about offense right now. I'm talking about what you can't separate. Like if you would have taken Mac Jones before this season and put him on, well, I don't even want to say the New York Jets because they're dysfunctional in their own right. But there is absolutely an argument that Matt Jones this season without all the dysfunction around him, there's a much better version of him somewhere. And I don't even like Mac Jones that much. But I mean, the point is we have seen it for at least one season out of three that he can be

a functional starting quarterback. We've done worse than Zach Wilson. That's outrageous. If I, if I, if you gave me just an average NFL offense across the board, average offensive coordinator, and I had the choice of two guys and I'd win a game, Mac Jones or Zach Wilson. This year, I'm taking Zach Wilson for sure. What has happened to?

What is happening to you? Max is an abysmal this year, dude. What? I know it's late, but what is this? Zach Wilson? Yes. Are you? What?

Do I think I'm winning the game? No. But absolutely I'm taking Zach. But you brought up the point different. differential is more than 26 points worth. Yeah, that like, obviously their personnel sucks. Like, their play calling sucks. But also, like, there's a reason Matt got bends for Bailey Zappy, who also can't play.

I'm just saying, I don't think people realize just how bad their quarterback play has been. It's been all abysmal. And so if you gank Mack and Bailey out and stick Drake May into this thing, it's going to look a lot better because of addition by subtraction. 2024 Bill Belichick playoffs. My gosh. Lock it in. All right. Well, now I'm debating which one of my neck, because both of my next two points actually can kind of relate to this, this one.

So I'm debating which one I go with. You know what? Let's stick with the coaching angle, because this one kind of relates to Bill Belichick. And then I'll get to my other one last. All right. So I'll be honest. I was struggling a little bit to come up with the final take. And then I thought, all right, she'll zoom out.

What we do best, I feel like, is we try to look ahead, look down. You know, look down the road. Be ahead. To the 2024 playoffs. I agree. Yeah. Well, no, not quite that far. So I'm looking to the offseason coaching carousel.

So this does apply to Bill Belich. And I'm trying to look around the league right now and say which jobs are going to be open. And who might be coaching for their job, Ben, in the final 14-5 weeks of the NFL season. So here's what I got. I want to hear what you think about these names. So obviously, Raiders' job. The other job, Panthers job, those two are already open. We don't need to talk about them.

We know we're going to have a minimum of two. The other three that I feel confident, I won't say like 100% lot, but feel pretty confident, are going to be open. One, the commanders. Ron Rivera, I think we can put that. That probably deserves its own category. I mean, I don't know what would need to happen for that job not to be open. I put the Patriots in there.

I don't think Bill Belichick is going to be the Patriots coach in 2020. Yeah, this has gotten, I think they gave it another shot out of respect to him. It has not worked out. They're a disaster. I think some type of mutual parting of ways where the Patriots go in a different direction, reset with a new quarterback who they draft. And then Bill Belichick goes somewhere assuming he wants to continue coaching. I think that probably makes the most sense. So I think the Patriots are going to be open.

And then I think the Chargers are the other one that I feel pretty strong. Now, listen, they could. The AOC is still wide open. So I guess there's a chance if you're a Chargers fan listening and saying, no, no, no, no, we still got a chance here. You have a tiny, tiny chance to still get in there. I don't think it's going to happen. I think that job's going to be open. So those are my five.

Raiders, Panthers, commanders, patriots, and chargers that I feel strongly. Those five jobs are going to be open. Now, this next group, maybe you'll feel like someone in this next group belongs in that group. This next group, I'm wondering, does what happens over the rest of the season? season determine whether these jobs are open, whether these guys still have jobs. All right. Let's go one by one here. Jets and Robert Salah, what's your read?

Do you think they just say this season's awash, bring him back with Aaron Rogers next year, he's not going anywhere, or do you think there is a more than, let's say, 50% chance that he ends up without a job this offseason? No, I'd make it like 65. He keeps it, 35. He doesn't. I think that defense loves him. And I think the fact that that defense has been a,

as good as it's been, and also has been as engaged and aggressive and trying to win games as it's been, despite the quarterbacking situation, is a huge testament to Salas management to the locker room. I'm very critical of solid how he handled Zach Wilson. I think at multiple turns over the last two years, he's made missteps in that regard. But defensively, I think you'd have an uprising if you booted solid from the job. Yeah, I think they'll just look at it and say, all right, we didn't do what we wanted to do this year. It's a wash, bring back Rogers healthy next year and we'll run it back with South. So I tend to agree with you there in terms of the percentages. If he did get fired, I would have to be shocked, but I think that's the direction.

They go. And all right, next one, your boy, Arthur Smith of the Falcons, what do you think? Does he have something riding on this final five weeks? Or do you think even if they don't make the playoffs here that they're going to say, you all right, we're, you know, we have young players. We're going to give him another year. It feels like they sort of like him in Atlanta. Like you don't hear like the turmoil or, you know what I mean? Like stuff. behind the scenes, it's like, all right, he's just running the show. I could see ownership being a little bit more patient with him. What do you think with Arthur Smith and the Falcons, depending on what happens? Yeah, I make him like 70, 30 to keep the job. I would say they would

need to really bungle and trip as they're coming around the corner to this division because this division is so obviously and eminently winnable that if they were in really embarrassing fashion, really dramatic fashion, give up that division. I think they have the Saints is the final game of the season, like maybe something like that. Yeah, that feels like a playoff game. You look at it. You have so much young talent there that if he's not the guy, you have to make the call and pull the ripcord because your job is pretty attractive.

Like obviously no quarterback, but it's pretty attractive because of the Bijan and the Drake and the Kyle Pitts and all the unrealized potential there. Defensively, Ryan Nielsen's playing great, or coaching a great unit there. So like, if you're going to pull the ripcord, pull it because this is the time, but I think they keep them. Okay. I agree with you there. Todd Bolt, let's stick in the NFC South. The next two, Todd Bowles and the Bucks, Dennis Allen with the Saints. How do you feel about those two if they don't make the playoffs? Todd Bowles, I think, is going to keep it. I have very much struggle to get a read on that. That's one where I'm like, I don't. I have no read. I have

no idea what they want to do. Yeah, we talked about them last week. Gas coming out of it. And there's obviously still recovering from Brady and like, I just think there's, that's a hard one to read into. Dennis Allen is the one where right now, if I had to put one into that first group of like, I think this is going to happen, that's the one that to me where it just feels like, yo, like, Dennis Allen's been there for a long time. Saints fans feel like they know him. The organization feels like they know him.

Same thing is true of offensive. Offensive coordinator, Pete Carr, Michael. And there's a lot of frustration with how the team has been managed. Defensively, like Allen, even like when he was head coach and, okay, it's not going that well, and they're changing quarterbacks. Well, at least like the defense is good. That was true last year. It was true to start this year.

It hasn't been true recently. Like, this defense is starting to lose its pitches. They've been dealing with injury. I understand that. But also, it's just the cap situation of it all. They don't have the same defensive line that they used to. They're older in a lot of positions. They're old.

Yeah, that's, I mean, a lot of their best players are 30 and older. Tyron. DeMario Davis is, what, 34, Cam Jordan. Like, these are guys who have awesome careers. I've loved watching them. But, yeah, it's just going to be harder. The Saints feel like a full watch. Like, DC gone, O.C. gone.

We're going to build this thing from the studs up. They feel like a team that has a lot at stake. If they make the playoffs, then maybe everyone's safe. If they do, I mean, they made all those moves to get to like nine and eight and win the division. If you can't do that, then what do you do? All right, last two on here. Giants and Brian Daibald, Bears and Matt Eberflus. How are you feeling with the temperature check on those two guys?

I'd be surprised by Daible. I think when you read the tea leaves, I think that like Daible can be a tough dude to work with. I think that there's like, you know, there's been a decent amount of reporting and rumor mongering and smoke swirling and like, okay, like, it's a bit of a, it can be a tough culture, he can be an exacting leader, but like, they made the playoffs with a bad roster last year. Like, he, if, the proof of the pudding for him is like, all right, like, I did this.

Like, you know, I can make this work. We had a, you know, bad year and Daniel Jones this and defense of that and whatever. They might make a DC change. I know that that Davel and wink, there's been some, some reporting that those two are at odds with one another. Uh, he refers to the bears. I think that could, that can happen.

I think if the bears end up with the first overall pick and you now say, oh, I can any head coach with any quarterback I want, the mind starts to wander. It begins to imagine the possibilities. And there I think, obviously they have a new team direction. Kevin Warren is the president of that team now.

It's been brought in to kind of change the culture of the Bears. Wouldn't be surprised if he wants to make a wholesale change there in the coaching staff. So Iber flus is one that I think is very much in jeopardy. All right. So the guy who has the most at stake, it feels like, the guy who can kind of go either way based on the results of the final five weeks,

I think we both think is Dennis Allen probably if they have a nice finish to the season if they win the NFC South if they make the playoffs maybe he stays if he doesn't maybe there's disappointment there I'm with you on Dave All

that feels like probably a stay to me Todd Bowles is tough to get a read on Arthur Smith I feel like it's going to be a stay like you said unless something wild happens Sala I think they run it back and then Iber Fluss is kind of a wild card I mean I guess there's a scenario where if they play well down the stretch

and some of these younger players on defense and it looks like, ooh, they're really cooking there. Then, you know, there's a chance that you draft a quarterback and keep him there. But I'm with you. If you're looking at the other potential candidates out there and say,

hey, let's just get somebody we can pair with our new quarterback. Let's do that. All right. So, so five we've got us sort of locks and I think one or two others. So maybe six or seven open head coaching opportunities this offseason. Does that feel right?

Does that feel like the right? Yeah, I've seen, like, I know there was a, I think it was fowler for me, SBA, it might have been somebody else. I apologize. I think there was someone who had like, there's going to be eight, nine, a job opening. This was going to be a big year for movement report. That wouldn't shock me. There's so many good candidates that I feel like if you, if you feel like he got a line on a guy, I would understand making a switch. But that sort of stuff always kind of gets, I think, aimed high at when we're at this stage, then when reality comes a little bit lower. But it's a great year for candidates. I'll tell you that. You think so? Now, now I have to ask, like, who are the guys? You, you, you, you, you, you, you love when you say it's a great year for candidates. I'm a big Ben Johnson. Ben Johnson. Did dry lines, absolutely. Mike McDonald is the DC with the Baltimore Ravens. I'm a big fan. Agiro Ebro for the Panthers,

remain someone who impresses me. That Panthers defense punches above its weight. Brian Flores would be someone I would want to call in and potentially offer a job to the Vikings. There's no guy in the league right now who I think does a better job making more out of less than Brian Flores does. And I know that's Shields,

that's tenants of coaching right there, right? That's the sign of a good coach. Gerard Mayo, who I imagine if he's the linebacker's coach slash defense coordinator, but also not really the defense coordinator, but also kind of the defense coordinator of the New England Patriots. He's one that, to me, deserves me really high up on that list. I don't know if he's like a candidate for non-New England jobs, so if that New England job opens, I think he'll be the top guy that's there. Yeah, Eagles interviewed him, I think, when they hired Siriani.

Dan Quinn, I think Quinn's going to get a ton of interviews. I mean, that defense is still rock solid. Quinn's a guy that, like, do you feel incredible about it? it, probably not. He's an excellent culture guy, and you know that he can produce a defense, and he knows how to build one. Like, if I were a team that felt

like I were close, right? Like, I think like, like, Chargers, right? We're just like, hey, just fix our defense for us and, like, get real players in here. And, like, offensively, we have Justin Herbert will be fine. That's one where I'd be like, oh, like, that will work for this team. So Quinn's one that I think is going to get calls. Frank Smith,

the Miami Dolphins OC. He's 100% going to get calls just because of the offense. I don't even know what he does. I've never seen him speak once. Guarantee you he gets calls. Like I think it's a good year for candidates. Oh, Jim Schwartz? Jimbo?

Back in the saddle? Third times the charm? Let's do it. There you go. All right. Let's take one more break. And we'll come back with our final takes. All right, we are back on extra point taken.

Again, I don't even, what number are you on? Are you on three? Am I on three? I'm on three and then I have my extra point. Okay, you have three. Then I have one, an extra point. All right, listen. It's week 13.

I'm all over the place. If I were handing out the executive the year award, I think I'd give it to Les Sneed, the general manager of the Los Angeles Rams. Now, the less need conversation is a hard one to have, right? Because there was that time where the Rams are going all in,

and they were just bending picks and everybody, get Jalen Rams in the building, get Matthew Stafford in the building. They win a Super Bowl. Less Needs says F them picks on the podium, and it's great, right? Like, life's awesome. And it was kind of like,

wow, look at what a good GMing job this is. And it's like, okay, like, yes, it's a great GMing job. But also, like, you know, it's just like kamikaze GMing. Like, you just start throwing a ton of resources at the wall and you're going. Now we're kind of in the second era of that where the pendulum swings the other way because the Rams have so many homegrown late round draft picks taking significant snaps to them right now. Starting running back, Kyron Williams, taking 438 snaps. He's a fifth round selection.

Pook and Akua, obviously 694 snaps also a fifth round selection. Kyrin, the snaps are only low because of the injury time. Both of those players, you've already been their two best offensive weapons this year, given the time the Cooper Cup has missed. Like, those have been integral, huge parts of the Rams who have a top ten offense, by the way. The understated but must be highlighted guy there is Steve Avia. Second round pick, guard at a TCU, day one starter, week one starter, as a rookie, been playing excellent ball along the interior.

First team, all rookie without question, Steve Avia. Defensively, Kobe Turner, third. round pick, 486 snaps, Byron Young, third round pick, six hundred ninety eight snaps. Both those guys are rookies. Both those guys are contributing. Darian Kendrick and Russ Yeast, a corner and safety in the secondary, along with Kobe DeRam. It was a fourth round pick, sixth round pick, seventh round pick. All of those guys, at least 400 snaps, two of them over 600 snaps. This Rams team, which is six and six and in the playoff plan as its leapfroft of the Seahawks in the division is getting unbelievable amount of contribution from their young players from late drafted day three, day two

rookies. And so now there's like a, man, like, Lesneed such a good drafter. Okay, well, it's the pendulum just swinging the other way. He's had a lot of darts to throw at the board because the Rams, I'm been having a first round pick and a second round pick. They've just been collecting day three picks. And because of the huge influx of talent they took in and all the money that they spent, they've just had a ton of reps to give these guys. They've just had so much room to be like, all right, well, like, we don't really have the cap space to go and sign like anybody at corner more than a kello Witherspoon. So we're just going to be. going to stick, Gary and Kendrick, Kobe, Durant, Duke Shelley out there, and they're going to

figure it out, right? Like, we've had John Johnson leave the building, and Nick Scott leave the building, and Taylor Rap lead the building at safety. So, Russ Yeast, you're up. You're a seventh rounder, but you've got to play. And so the Rams had, like, I think over the last year, two years, a pretty unique and fertile environment for developing these day three picks that a lot of other teams don't have. And so with that acknowledged, I think you have to say that and you have to say, right, like, you know, this draft success is probably a little bit more inflated by Snap count and by opportunity than it would appear. Less still hit on a lot of guys.

It's hard to get a starting running back and a starting wide receiver out of the top five, and he very clearly got that. Like, Kyron and Puka is no mistake. Kobe Turner and Byron Younger, two rookie third round picks along the defensive line. They are legitimate players. They are impact players, disruptors. They're the sort of guys who need decks to Aaron Donald. They handle their business.

They win their one-on-ones, when the offensive line over, indexes to Donald. Those are for real players. I think the secondary is like a little bit more fragile, but Avia at guard, Kevin Dotson, who he traded for in August. Like the Steelers weren't going to play this guy. He traded for him, stuck him out there at right guard and he's been cooking. Like the, it's one thing to have this approach where it's like, we're going to make three seventh round picks a year. We're going to make three fifth round picks a year. It's another thing to like actually land on impacts players. The fact that you can get Kairin and Puka and Kobe and Byron the way that he did where he did is huge for these Rams because they would be on, I think,

by an average drafter a lot further behind the eight ball. We'd be like, oh, Stafford's healthy. Cool. Sean McVeigh still doing good stuff. Cool. But I mean, man, this team still, they need a wide receiver. They need a back. We're not saying that about this team.

And that's because Les Sneat hit his, hit his, he connected when the ball came across the plate. Yeah, he got a few more swings than the other guys, but you still have to connect. And he's done an excellent job with that. And so I've seen a lot of like, oh, like Sean McVeigh coach of the year stuff and Matthew Stafford comeback player of the year. And I think everybody's trying to find a way to acknowledge, what these Rams have been able to achieve. And to me, when I look at it, I say,

this is really, just really nice, solid drafting by less need of the last couple of years. They've drafted and developed, and they're reaping the fruits of that labor. They have a good, young talent base to actually, you know, maximize here this, this final sunlight years of Matthew Stafford's career. Kudos to them. It's a good one. It's like, yeah. I mean, I figured after Belichick's making the playoffs next year, I had to come in,

which is like a nice friendly take that you couldn't take any on Bridge with. A normal one, a reasonable one. No, that's a good one. outside the box one as we're, you know, so focused on this season. The Rams are six and six. It's not only like you mentioned, you know, the volume of those draft picks, but also, I mean, how many undrafted guys did they have on like their 90-man roster? I mean, it was a wild number.

It was like way more, I believe, than any other team in the NFL. And listen, that's not a bad strategy. Like even when they were trading away all their first round picks, they were still drafting for volume throughout the draft, trying to get a lot of bites at the apple, trying to get a lot of dart throws and see. what hits this offseason was like to the extreme. I mean, I looked at the roster coming into the season,

and it was just like, if Cooper Cup gets injured, this offense is going to have no chance. You have a 35-year-old quarterback behind a bad offensive line with no other weapons. And as you mentioned, well, they hit on some stuff on the offensive line. They drafted a wide receiver who looks, by the way, was incredible last week against the Cleveland Browns. Running away from dudes. Like Pook has been like, oh, it's hit down versus O.

It's like win weird catches. Boy, high wheels. Yeah. Yeah, 100% was making huge plays for them. And now we talked about it last week when we said, you know what? I think this Rams team might make the playoffs. Now you look around and you're like, all right, offensive line is improved. You've got Puka Naku, you've got Cooper Cup, you've got Kairn, Williams.

Like there are pieces around Matthew Stafford. Then you make changes schematically and you make changes on the coaching staff. It's kind of all come together for them. Now, they're six and six. I don't want to make it sound like they're, you know, 10 and 2 or something at the same time. They've absolutely overachieved my expectation, your expectations. expectation, Vegas' expectations,

I think coming into the season, and they're in a very good spot here. Yeah, even defensively, you know, Rahe Morris is probably another guy to mention when we're talking about coaching, head coaching candidates.

I know Mike Tomlin has called him, like he thinks he's the best coach in the league. Hey, he's the best coach he's ever been around. And it feels like he's somebody who's really respected among other coaches. And so that's someone. It takes coaching to coach up those young players.

You have to play them. You have to develop them. to live with mistakes. It's a similar story in Green Bay with the Packers where they're taking their lumps. They're taking their lumps. They're taking their lumps. Our Packers. We saw the vision, by the way. We knew. Don't worry about it. We knew. I really wanted to have another pack because I'm like, we should talk about the Packers. I'm like, what can my next Packers take big? Because it's like, man, that was a big win against the Chiefs. But I'm like, yeah, I guess we'll get to him this weekend. Do you want a Packers take from? I'll give you Packers take right now. Sure. What are you

going to win a playoff game? Well, no, I think they might. But no, the best receiver on that team is Don Tavian Wix. I love this game. 13? He can play, dude. He's got vines. He's quick. He's loose. I watch Christian Watson, and then I watched Don Tavian Wix and I go, oh, Wix is what that's supposed to look like. That's right. I remember. I know Watson just had like a really nice game. Dante Wix 13. He's my guy to watch. I'm trying to get him win Dynasty Leagues. I was wondering, like, how outlandish I could go with my take. Like, Packers are going to win a playoff game. Packers are winning the Super Bowl next year.

I'm like, all right, all right, she'll settle down. Let's just let them play another game here. but no, it's a good point on less need and the Rams and they're a team to watch here down the stretch. All right. Next one. My last one. We talked about the Jets earlier, Benjamin. The Jets just need to stop finding new ways to embarrass themselves.

I swear, I did not want to talk about the Jets anymore. I think we are 0 for 4 on not talking about things we swear not talking about. Chargers, McDaniel, Zach Wilson, we just can't stay away. Listen, the Chargers became like a good three months span and then, you know, they made us talk about them. And this is a similar thing with the Jets. You know, I was ready to just say, I will see you in the offseason. It's over. I've said my piece.

I have nothing else to say. But when there's news on a Monday for the show and we record late Monday night, I feel like, you know what? We probably should talk about it. So in case you missed it and good for you if you did, the athletic reported Monday that the Jets wanted Zach Wilson, so like a favorite quarterback, to say. start again, but he is he is quote, hesitants to step

back into the role. And that's according to multiple team sources for the athletic. The report went on to say, Aaron Rogers, of course, he's got to be a part of this. That's me, not the report. Reached out to Will. Good clarification.

The listeners weren't sure. They couldn't tell. Reached out to Wilson to advise him to play, but Wilson was apprehensive due to perceived injury risk. So this report comes out. Then Robert Sala holds his press conference. He says, no, no, no. Wilson told me 30 minutes ago he wants to play. Oh, so he's going to play? No, says Sala. I'm not going to name a starter quite yet. I'll let you know later in the week.

So it's just like why? Now, maybe you're saying, Shield, you're in control of what you talk about. And that's true. Maybe next time I should just ignore this. Again, I just felt like it's a headline on a Monday. Maybe we should cover it. But this team is four and eight. They've lost five or wrong, they played Tim Boyle and Trevor Simeon on Sunday in a loss to the Falcons. It was an embarrassment. They have the worst success rate of any offense in the NFL

of the last 10 years. If they say, if they maintain this rate, no offense in the last 10 years will be producing a positive offensive play at a lower rate than the 2023 New York Jets. I mean, think of all the people we've made fun of. Urban Meyer,

Adam Gase, Matt Patricia, Joe Judge. Think about this Monday night football game. we just watched and what Jake Browning looked like. And even C.J. Bethard at least led a field goal drive anyway. That the Jets couldn't do any of that. You know what else I was thinking about then was if Sala stays there like this is going to continue. I mean, hiring Nathaniel Hackett was part of the deal of acquiring Aaron Rogers, employing,

is I am I using that way? I can't even speak. The Jets do to me. Tim Boyle was part of the deal too. So it's like, they're still going to be there. And then I was thinking, you know what? This dysfunction, this nonsense starts at the top with ownership. Did you, did you watch Hard Knocks?

Do you watch Hard Knocks? No, I can't do Hard Knocks. People get mad at me. It's not for me. I don't get mad at you. Anyway, there was a clip. And Robert said, I think about this clip way too off, way more often than I should. And I don't know if people will even know what I'm talking about.

Robert Salas talking to Woody Johnson on the field. And he's like, pointing at Quinn and Williams. And he's like, yeah, you know, like, look at him. He's awesome. You know, you see this guy's a beast. Like he's a, you know, great, great for the team. He's smiling leader. Sell all that.

And Woody Johnson's response and Sal is like, that's why, you know, he was worth giving him that big contract. You know, Woody Johnson's response was? Yeah. It was a lot of money. That was his response. I mean, it's such a loser behavior. Like, why do you even own a sports franchise?

The ambassador to the United Kingdom, it was a lot of money to pay Quinn and Williams. Why are you even owning a sports? franchise. You should be, you actually drafted a player who's really good at a big time position and you paid him a second contract and yet like the coaches like him, you should be happy about that. That's part of the job. No, it was a lot of money. So I was thinking about Woody Johnson earlier. I just need this team to go away. Again, I feel terrible for the fans. I know all, if you're a Jets fan, probably all your friends are texting you, making fun of you about the Zach Wilson thing today. Like you don't need this anymore. It's been the last 12 years, Jets go away, play the season.

out. We'll see you in 2024. Stay out of the news. We don't care about your quarterback situation. And all this other nonsense. I don't know. That's my take. I have nothing else to say about him. What was your take on the Zach Wilson thing? They should have traded him for Mac Jones. There was, I

no, they should have kept him for Matt Mc Jones because he's better now than Mac Jones. There was, there was never any end result for the Tim Boyle thing. There were like, What outcome was there?

What was, what, what did we end with? What, when the switch to Zach Wilson and Tim Boyle was made, what was the highest tail outcome, right? We're down, range of outcomes. What was the highest tail that, like, it turns out the Eastern Kentucky guy who hasn't been playing at all. The Yukon one touchdown to 13 interception, dude, was good? That was, that was, we were just spinning the roulette wheel,

hoping to land on zero. Oh, my goodness. Of course we landed back with we're trying to get Zach Wilson back as the starter because Tim Boyle cannot play. He's awful. And now you're just, right, it's, you put yourself in another embarrassing news cycle where Robert Sol has to come up to the podium. And instead of being like, defense played great, you see that safety,

like Ashton Davis tackled the running back with the tight end. That was sick. He just has to be like, oh, no, Zach Wilson wants to be here. 100%, man. You just, you are just stepping into quicksamp. just take your lumps, start Zach, and go quietly into that good night. But no, you had to put Tim Boyle on my television on Black Friday, which I did make money on that game. Thank you.

But still, there was never an outcome from that that was actually good. And so the error isn't the Zach Wilson thing. It's the Tim Boyle thing. Yeah, just like, who cares? Your team sucks. It's over. We'll see you next year. We'll see you in the offseason, free agency, the draft, all of that. We don't need this soap opera week to week. I know Jets fans have to feel the same way. They're probably like just let this season finally be over and let's look ahead. All right.

What do you have? What do you have for your extra point taken? For my extra point taken today, I have three things, three outcomes of the season that by fandal odds have an implied chance of happening of less than 10%. And I would like to present these three things to you. and that I would like to have I would like to have you tell me which of the three things if Eddie you have to pick one actually

no pick one which of those three things will happen I'm so excited the first the lions are currently plus 1,100 to get the one seat in the NFC that is an implied percent chance of 8.3 percent

they have remaining on their schedule by the way bears Broncos Vikings Vikings which Vikings are obviously 6 and 6 Denver's in the playoff picture but the lions should be able to, as we expect, win those games, right? They had that, oh, they're going to dominate the Saints. And then they let

the Saints back in it. Okay, it's a winnable schedule. The Niners still have the Seahawks and the Ravens. They have an end-of-season game against the Rams that might be really impactful. The Eagles face the Cowboys, they face the Seahawks, and then Dallas has the Eagles, the Bills, the Dolphins, the Lions, Dallas has got everybody. So the Lions are only one game back

in the NFC. They're still within range of winning the conference. That is an 8.3% chance implied. Number two, the Browns. To win the AFC North is a 9% chance right now, according to Fandall. It sounds weird because, hey, it's the Browns. But listen, that Joe Flacco film,

not as bad as I thought it was getting me. It really wasn't. I agree with you. It was 20-20 with five minutes left in that game. I was about to say young man was making some throws out there. Old man was making some throws out there. Let's be honest. Joe Flacco at the press conference, like after the game,

he's just standing up there like salt and pepper like got the beard going on and hasn't shaved in a couple weeks if he ran like an average t-shirt what a hundred percent looks like someone's dad is just being interviewed about when they think about the Browns it's so funny

but Flacco I was like this there's no way this is going to work this guy got cut by the Jets there's no way you're good if you got cut by the Jets this guy should have stayed on the Jets he actually played pretty well I thought they have the Jaguars upcoming

and hey no Trevor Lawrence in that game and then Bears Texans Jets Bengals plenty of winnable football left for the Browns That is a 9% chance to win the division. They are two games back from the Ravens who are 9 and 3. Ravens do have some tough games coming up. And obviously they are tied with the Steelers who are at 7 and 5 as well.

The final one, Josh Allen to win MVP shield, plus 3,000 on fan duel, which it was longer than plus 3,000 a week ago. I know this personally. 3.23% implied chance in the betting markets. But listen to me. the bills, according to New York Times Playoff Simulator, have a 14% chance of making the playoffs. In a lot of the worlds in which the bills make the playoffs,

the Venn diagram overlap is pretty big with Josh Allen being a legitimate MVP candidate. Think about that game Josh Allen played against the Eagles. Obviously, they didn't win, but think about the quality of that game. If you just get that game over and over again to end the season for the bills, and they're able to parlay that into the seventh seed of the wildcard, right? and like usually division winner quarterback has got to be the guy, right?

But if he looks like that against the Cowboys and they beat the Chiefs in Arrowhead, he looks like that against the Cowboys and they beat the Cowboys, he looks like that against the Dolphins in Miami and Week 18 with a potential playoff berth on the line, he plays that game, he played against the Eagles? He's going to be in the conversation. Josh Allen to win MVP, 3.23%. So listeners, as a reminder, I saw Shield writing it down. He's a studious and wonderful podcast host.

Lions 8.3% chance to get the one seed, Brown's 9% chance to win the division, Josh Allen, 3% chance to win MVP, Sheal, which, if any, would you wager that precious Seattle hat on happening at the end of this season? Well, as you and I, you know, talk about on the Friday show, obviously the smartest one would be the one with the best odds,

which was what, the Lions, right? Browns to win their division technically. Okay. Well, I'm not doing that. That's the one I'm crossing off. Right away, I'm kind of with you. Joe Flacco looked okay. That defense, though, I mean, Miles Garrett was playing with like one arm.

Miles Garrett got shut out of the box score. He played 57 snaps. He did not have a sack, a tackle, or quarterback hit. I refuse to believe that's because of anything that the Los Angeles Rams did. Afterward, I read a report in the athletic that he was getting help, putting his shirt on. So I think Miles Garrett was playing in. I hope it gets healthy, but I don't know. I mean, if you get that version of Miles Garrett, Denzel Ward was out.

I mean, that offense got cooked by the Los Angeles. I mean, that defense got cooked by the Los Angeles Rams. So I just don't know what their formula is to win football games. Amari Cooper, I think, left that game with a concussion or at least was being checked for a concussion. So yeah, I do not like the Browns to overtake the Ravens in the AFC North. So I will get them out of there. Lions, when you first said it, I was like, no way. I mean, it's not the craziest thing.

You know, I could see the Eagles losing this weekend to the Cowboys and then maybe losing to the Seahawks the next week, going in a little bit of a tailspin. They lose four games. The Lions went out. I mean, I still think that's pretty unexpected here, and you still need the 49ers to probably lose a game in there because the 49ers had the tie break over the Lions.

So I don't like that one. You knew which one I was going to pick. So I told you, I will not give up on this bill's team until they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. Big one against the Chiefs this week. Cowboys the following week. I'm looking at this. I mean,

I just refuse to believe that there are going to be seven teams better than the Buffalo Bills. They really should implement the college football thing for this and just be like the bills are getting in over T-Mex with the injured quarterback because it's going to be more fun for everybody on Wildcard weekend. So they've got to uphill climb. There's no doubt about it. They've got the hardest remaining schedule in the NFL according to the betting markets.

But like you said, But that's why Alan would win MVP. Exactly. Exactly. They got there. Yeah. You're right. They're going to be playing in high profile games.

Now, usually, as we've discussed on here, the MVP goes to the quarterback of the one or the two seat. Well, you know what? It's kind of a weird year. No, we're going into week 14. And I have no idea if you ask me right now who my MVP is, I would have a hard time telling you who it was going to be. I thought Mahomes was going to go on a run and have a big Sunday night and kind of his odds were going to get bumped up.

That didn't happen. I think Dak has a shot if they beat the Cowboys this week, but they're still probably not going to win the NFC East unless the Eagles come way back down to Earth. So in terms of the other stuff that usually correlates to MVP, one of them is just EPA. And right now, you know who's second in success rate among quarterbacks? That would be Josh Allen in terms of EPA per pass play. As my true media loads here, all right, there it is. He's fourth in EPA per pass play. So there is easily a scenario where all the nerds are saying by the end of the season,

holy cow, Josh Allen is first at EPA per pass play. He's first in success rate. He has the most touchdowns of any quarterback in the NFL. Look at the rushing numbers. Look at the passing numbers. And who is he doing it with? Stefan Diggs and, you know, Dalton Kincaid. And all of a sudden they made and they beat all these good teams.

the bills have not still not lost a game by more than six points this season. The Steelers still haven't won a game by wins. What a dumb season, dude. I mean, they're in every game. They've had these terrible losses. So I'm going with Josh Allen. I'm glad he brought it up because this was going to be one of my time. I'm like, but no, Shil, you said last week you still have the bills going to the playoffs.

So now I can just double down. Don't let me down, Buffalo. Come on. You can go to Casey. You can beat that Chiefs. They are very getable. You win one of those games against the Chiefs for the Cowboys,

and then you win your last three. I think you've got a great shot. So there you go. Josh Allen, I'm on board. Yeah. What would you pick? That's all. I mean, that was bait.

I thought you would take it. Initially, I had Tyree Kill to win MVP. That's implied 5% chance by sports books. I think there's a legitimate shot that that becomes a bigger part of the conversation. Tire Kill is on pace to get to 2000 still. which being on pace 13 games into the season,

you know what that means? You're probably going to do it? He has 1,381 receiving yards. We have a whole month of football left. He absolutely is within range of clearing 2000. Like you said, usually we're talking about conference leading teams. Right now, the most likely team to get the first round buying the

AFC by New York Times prediction, it's a Miami Dolphins, 37% chance. It's over the Ravens who are 28% chance. A lot of us to do the schedule and what have you. But 9 and 3 dolphins are right up. there. And so I think, I think like Tyreek MVP is going to be something that it gains some steam. I think if you got most MVP betters to sit down and say honestly, if they had a pick between two dolphins, Tewan and Tyreek, who would they pick? I think the majority

are picking Tariq between those two. They might end up splitting so many votes between one another that a third person, like Brock gets it, Hertz gets it, whatever. But I think it's going to be part of the conversation for sure when we get later into December that Tirekes and that MVP conversation. But I switch to Josh. That way you take it. I'm almost, you know, I'm usually on the side of get out of here with that nonsense that a non-quarterback should win the MVP. That's just not the way the sport is set up. I'm usually like, it should always be a quarterback. If ever there were going to be a year where I would be open to the idea that I'm with you. I mean, I really can't think of a lot of people in my life who would say, and this is not a

knock on tour, I think just most people would say you replace Tyreek with it. with a mediocre receiver or you replaced Tua with a mediocre quarterback, what still kind of keeps the offense. And I think you would say, you know, it would hurt the offense more if Tyreek were replaced with a mediocre wide receiver. And it's not just the numbers. I mean, we can get into like everything else he does to open up everything else. He changes everything.

Yeah. There are six or seven dudes in the league who are non-quarterbacks who legitimately change the geometry of the field. You can't play the sport. that you play against other teams against them. And Tyreek is one of those guys. And so, yeah, like, if there is a pool of players that are non-quarterbacks, who I'm even willing to entertain in the MVP conversation, he's one of them.

And to that point, like, I've seen this to people talking about this. With the whole, like, Tyreek MVP conversation, there's now this whole, like, sanctity. Like, the nerds are coming out with it. Whenever you hear this tone of my voice, always the nerds. The nerds like, there's no one non-portorback can win MVP because, oh, they have to, to because quarterbacks are obviously the most valuable position. Yes, but we haven't been good at taking most valuable players seriously in other years. There have been plenty of years in the past where a quarterback was probably more valuable

to his team than another quarterback, but that other guys had bigger stats and we gave it to him. So we weren't doing that MV part of MVP that seriously anyway. So we can wind it to get Tyreek in there if he has over 2,000 yards, in my opinion. Right now, Dak Prescott and Brock Purdy. They are tied for the best MVP odds at plus 300, followed by Jalen Hertz plus 350. Patrick Mahomes plus 650, Tua plus 800,

Lamar plus 800, and Tyreek Hill plus 2,000. So Hill is behind six quarterbacks right now. And as you mentioned, Josh Allen all the way down there at plus 3,000. Oh, hello, Jordan, love, making an appearance on the first three rows of this fan duel. of his band dual page.

Nice to see you. I have not seen you in the C.J. Stroud. The absolute funniest one of all that is. Jordan Love is plus 15,000. Great bet. Everybody should take it. It was also plus 15,000.

Russell Wilson? Are you outside of your God-giving mind? Russell Wilson MVP. In 2023? No chance. How is that a thing? How does he have the same lines as Twitter? Like, I could actually,

all right, I'm getting over my. skis on Jordan Love, but I could talk myself into a scenario where if this guy, if they don't lose a game the rest of the way, you know, I mean, maybe. It's 1 a.m. Eastern time. We've been on the pod for an hour. I've got Sheel who was like, you can't talk about Bill Belichick, like a good coach 30 minutes ago. It's like, I can talk myself in a Jordan Love winning MVP this year. Jordan Love looks awesome. Listen, Jordan Love was great. Hikers fan should be so excited. The Packers really did it again. You and I are going to, it's going to be 2038,

and you're not going to be doing this podcast in wheelchairs. On Keynes being like, man, wonder who the Packers' quarterback's going to be after Jordan Love? Because the Packers have literally done it for a third time in a row, obnoxious. One of my takes was going to be Jordan Love cost himself a lot of money by signing that extension in the office. You hated that extension. Which I said at the time. You hated that extension. Think if Jordan Love was going into the open. Think of Jordan Love's contract was up at the end of the season.

And think of what Daniel Jones made last season. and then what Jordan Love would get paid here. But I thought, you know what? The vibes are good in Green Bay. I don't want to bring that up right now. It's not my problem. He made a decision. He's still making a lot of money.

Listen to me next time. All right. Daniel Jones contract, which is being pulled up by SpotTrack right now as I talked to fill the time. Four years, $160 million. So it's 40 per year over four years.

It's basically got a two-year-out, $82 million. Would you hand that contract to Jordan Love right now? Would I? Yeah. If I were Brian Goodacons? Yeah. Yes, I love. Yes.

Dude, we were so worried about this pod. We were like week 13. We're running so low on takes. Gas is low, long season. And here we are given Daniel, or given Jordan Love $160 million. Better question. If you're Jordan Love's representation,

do you tell him to take that? Of course you take that. Yes, absolutely. Yes. I'm not, I don't know about that. I might say let's let them tag you. We'll play well again next year. and then we'll get up over 50 million per year.

Jordan Love has, well, they're not going to tag him because he still has another year. Jordan Love is one of the best, like, who are the 10 young, who are the 10 quarterbacks under 30, you would take over Jordan Love right now? Do you have 10? Probably not, no. Well, under 30, like Mahomes and Allen are still under 30.

Yeah. It's like under like 28 or something. I guess we're just doing this right now. I mean, listen, I was thinking about my train. trade value column and Jordan Love's absolutely going to make an appearance on that the next time I updated. I'm pulling up Stevens quarterback rankings. For the next

three years, who would you rather have Jordan Love or Trevor Lawrence? Well, Trevor, listen, I would still have all those guys at the top over him just because of the sample size. But I would say if I was his representation, I would be like, yes, you know, we're going to be, he's what, 24 years? How old is he?

24 years. 25. 24 years old. And he's potentially putting together a He turned 25 in November. Excuse me. Turn 25 in November. Okay, he's 25, and he's potentially putting together a top 10 statistical season here in his first season as a full-time starter. Listen, there's a case that you do not take that Daniel Jones offer if it's a contract, if it's offered to you right now.

And you say, I'm not taking that. I'll keep playing. And he signed for next year. Yeah, I guess that's why. You shouldn't have signed that deal. Now he signed for next year, and then they can use the tag after that. Jordan Love, you shouldn't have done that. But that's okay.

You're making money. You're having fun. All right, last one. Kyler Murray, for the next three years, his cap hit starting in 2024 is $51, $45, $55 million. That's Kyler. So $51, $455. That cap hit is basically the same. Daniel Jones next to the cap, it's 47, 4148.

If you got to have Jordan Love at those three capits or Kyler at those three capits, who are taken? Oh, Jordan Love. Jordan Love over Kyler? Yes. Go ahead. This is your boy. You're in. You are feeling the love tonight, Sheal.

Oh, I love it. Jordan Love has 13 starts this season and like eight of them were objectively bad and Shields all the way in. Listen, he's already shown so much improvement. He's shown me five straight games and the ceiling is high. I've seen many years of,

not that I don't like Kyler Murray, but yeah. Everybody go to the ringer YouTube, watch my video on Jordan Love last week. I'm low-key with Shield, but I'm not willing to say it with this much ump in my chest. No one will remember if he flames out and this is completely wrong. I'll just move on and pretend I never said it.

All right. That will do it. What an on-in-hing spin. We stuck to landing, dude. Grape-Pond. We should have led with that. Next time we'd lead it with Jordan Love. All right.

That will do it for this episode of Extra Point Taken. Thank you to Ben Solac. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing. Thank you to Eduardo Ocampo for the video production, additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna. Ram Gopal next episode will be Nora and Stephen on dual threat, and then Solek and I will be back on Friday hour. All right, everyone.

Thanks for listening and have a great week. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fanduel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC, gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit fanduel.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia. Call 1-800 next step or text next step to 533442 in Arizona. 1-888-7-8-9-7-77-7.

Or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut, 1-8009 with it in Indiana, 1-800-2-2-2-4-7-00, or visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas, 1-8777-7-0 stop in Louisiana, visit MD gamblinghelp.org in Maryland, visit 1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia or call 1-8005-22-4-7-0 in Wyoming.

Hope is here. Visit Gambling Helpline. ma.org or call 800 327-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8778-8-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y in New York.