The Ringer NFL Show - It’s Survival Sunday in the NFL (Ep. 198)

Episode Date: December 8, 2017

The Ringer’s Kevin Clark and Robert Mays dig into the final quarter of the season, discussing how Alvin Kamara’s injury revealed that he is the Offensive Rookie of the Year (01:00). Then, the guys rank the personalities of NFL quarterbacks (07:00) and discuss why the Panthers will likely fall out of the playoff hunt after this weekend (14:30). Finally, Robert and Kevin debate where Russell Wilson fits in the MVP discussion (28:45), and Danny Kelly joins the show to talk about some players who can win your fantasy championship for you (46:30), including a sleeper running back who may still be on your waiver wire (53:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, this is JJ Reddick. You may know me as a basketball player. You may have seen me play during my college career at Duke University or perhaps over the past decade playing in the NBA for the magic, the bucks, the clippers, or the Sixers. Well, today I'm here to tell you about my new show, the JJ Redick podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. This is where you can find me interviewing athletes

like my current teammate, Joelle Ambide, as well as in-depth conversations with celebrities like the late-late show host James Corden. The very first episode goes live later this week, so make sure to subscribe to the JJ Redick podcast wherever you get your podcast. It's the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark, joined today by Robert Mays. Robert, it's the final quarter of the NFL season.

I'm unsure of what we know at this point. Patriots are good. The Patriots are good. We had a weird Thursday night game. Yeah, and unfortunate one. I mean, the fact that everyone, we're in this point now where Alvin Kamara I've become maybe the most exciting player in the NFL. And it's like, all right, Saints in prime time.

Like, settle in, be able to watch Alvin Kamara play. Everything else the Saints do well, then one play. Not one play, but one drive into the game. Alvin Kamar is done. So my big thing is what does a team look like when a guy's missing? Alvin Kamara, offensive rookie of the year by a wide margin. Yeah, it was, it seems because we got kind of the perfect experimental conditions. Like, we got to, the scientific elements of it were just like, all right, what would the Saints be without Alvin Kamara?

How valuable has he been? And then we got to see an entire game without him. It's a wonderful life game where you're just like, here's a watch him far. Here's a game where this guy just doesn't exist. Yep. And that was interesting to me. Now we have chaos, not only in the NFC South, but in the NFC in general. I have no idea what the hell is about to happen over the next couple weeks.

So now the Falcons are kind of in play in the division again. Yeah. Because, I mean, they play the Saints again. So if Atlanta goes in a run, they're in this. The Saints are 9 and 4, and then the Panthers are 8 and 4, the Falcons are 8 and 5. That's pretty good. Yeah. And the fact that Atlanta gets New Orleans again is important.

So they kind of have that in their back pocket this entire way through. This just looks really good for Minnesota is what it looks like. I mean, the fact that the Vikings are kind of going to cruise to a buy. I mean, it was them in New Orleans kind of with Philadelphia for a few weeks there. and now looks like the Vikings are just going to settle into at least the second seed in the NFC. So if somebody knocks off the Eagles, they get home field advantage all the way through. It's kind of what happened with... They used to have the Rams this week.

Yeah. So, I mean, if Minnesota wins, then they have a better record than the Eagles. So they're the winners here. I think them in Philly just kind of settling into those first two spots with the Eagles, even if they drop one, two more games by the end after only losing one for their first 11. This is a win for both those guys. I mean, they want to play at home, obviously. it's looking like pending disaster.

They will get to do that for most of the playoffs. So I spent a good chunk of September and October talking about the new NFL and the way that teams approach things, okay? And one of my big talking points is that the first five, six weeks of the season just don't matter because the way practice schedules are now after the CBA, the way that, you know, so many young players get early playing time because the CBA, the contract status is a million things. It would take 50 minutes to go through it on it.

but the point is that teams settle into the season. The Saints were a good example in the sense that they figured out their defensive secondary as the season went on and they went on an amazing run. The Seahawks are another example. They're a team that started slow. They figured it out. The Falcons. Think about all the handwringing about Steve Sarkees.

It's not Kyle Shanahan and it's not going to be. But the idea, you know, the panic that's set in in the Falcons offense over the first couple of weeks, I mean, it's clear to me that the Falcons have at least figured out where their floor is. I guess so. Their offense is still frustrating at Washington. They could not throw the ball yesterday. And Matt Ryan threw the ball of the other team.

Like he was, I don't know, named me a bad quarterback. It just wasn't. Joe Flack. Yeah, there you go. I mean, the fact that they threw that, they had three turnovers in the first half and won that game. I'm more impressed with what the Falcons said on defense last night.

I mean, they were just everywhere. Which also wasn't great. No, it hasn't been great even recently. I mean, that's the best game I've seen them play in a long time. Both sides of the ball needed to figure it out, and they both did, I think, of my opinion. The offense still worries me. I still feel like there just aren't as many guys open as there should be, you know, Brian's forcing throws.

I know the Saints are a good past defense, but I'm not sold yet. The running game is good, and it was good again last night, and that's why they won that game. But to me, I feel like the fact that you have those guys on defense settling in, the guys you need to play well are. Dion Jones was all over the place. I mean, that last drive, he makes that tackle on Sneeat, on a play that would be a touchdown against most teams. It's kind of similar to the play that the Rams scored on,

the inside, outside motion play that Robert Woods had that touchdown on a couple weeks ago. And Sneed should be wide open in the flat and Jones tracking down for no gain. Then that interception, every Monday I do the NFL players. They're absolutely nothing like us and do one highlight. Dion Jones was like six feet off the ground parallel to the ground when he caught that ball. It's just unbelievable.

I mean, the guy is a monster athlete in the middle. And that's what they need to survive on. They're small. They need those guys to be able to cover space, and they did it very well against Inwallins. You're going to want athletes on your team. That's my overriding point of the NFL season, and Dionne Jones is an athlete.

And that's very true, but what you sacrifice that, with that approach, what you sacrifice on defense, is the ability to stop the run most of the time. And the fact that you had New Orleans come in there yesterday and not be able to completely run over the Falcons in that way. That was impressive to me. I know no Kamara,

But even with Ingram, that's something that you have a concern with when it comes to New Orleans and the way Atlanta's built. And it wasn't a problem. Drew Brees last night, by the way, took on Thursday night football. Like maybe as directly as anybody since Drew Brees said the 100% of the injuries were because of Thursday. So it's another thing to watch. I'm intrigued. The Kamara injury was? I don't know about that.

He got hit flush on the side of the head. I don't know. Well, if they weren't playing on Thursday, who wouldn't have gotten hurt last night? I guess not. You know what you've been doing? Practicing. That's fat The argument is so good

Because literally the only way You can get hurt on a Thursday Is by playing on a Thursday I can't refute that 100% of the Thursday night football injuries Occurred on Thursday Hey that is an argument And no one can come back

You just got owned, Mace All right Our favorite four Favorite four matchups of the week Let's start with the big one I'll be there I've been with the Eagles all week Eagles Rams

Yeah this one's fun I mean, I think that the storyline everyone hit all week, which makes sense, it's just that number two, number two picks, number one and number two picks, the first two picks from last year's draft. Both horrendously boring people. Yeah. I mean, I'm not surprising, but an interesting story.

The fact that they're friends, that's all you need to know. They're the same age out. I mean, like, they worked out together. They work out together, yeah. But they're just not, they're not exactly, you know, Brett Farf here. That I can understand. Cam Newton.

I would give Jared golf a little bit more than Carson Wentz. I've had a long conversation with Jared Goff. I've never had one with Carson Wentz. So I'm going to give Jared Goff the sleigh-knob. You know who gets lumped unfairly into the boring quarterbacks and isn't Joe Flacco? He's got an edge to him, but no one cares because it's Joe Flacco. Matt Ryan, I think, is a little bit more of an asshole than people know. That I will say that.

But not a good asshole. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The story's about golfing with Matt Ryan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. not an enjoyable experience. He goes for the throat. I think Jay Cutler is... Jay Cutler's just an asshole in a good and bad way.

Do he have personality? Yes. Yes. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. He has personality. He's not boring.

Most of the lot of quarterbacks are boring. Russell Wilson is intentionally boring, but it's not a boring person. Correct. Kind of a Derek Jeter type in that regard. Yep. That's a good comparison. Stafford is again someone who people I know who know him say he's interesting

but he doesn't want to show it. Is Deshawn Watson going to be a personality when he? That's a good question. I don't know. He seems like, I don't know. That's a good one. I'm not sure. I'm not sure where to land on that one quite yet. We need more personalities. For quarterbacks. Yeah, we need more Jake Cutler's.

But doesn't the position overall just lends itself to boring people? I wish Cam Newton were awesome again because I love, I love cocky Cam Newton. That was a fun year for quarterback personality. that we don't have very often. Yeah. Is really funny. The funny thing is Tom Brady is boring in some ways, but then all of the Tom Brady yelling at people stuff

kind of steps outside of that. He's boring. Yeah, I guess so. She's a football nerd. Yeah, but he's berating people on the sideline, which everyone else hates I'm kind of into. Okay, should I start doing that? Sure, if you want to.

If you're trying, if the purpose is to make me better at the podcast, Kevin, and to get the most we can out of each other, then I'm fine with you yelling at me every once in a while. Case Keenum He doesn't seem that boring Eagles at Rams Obviously this has huge implications We're talking about for the buy

I'm intrigued Both of these teams Probably have the divisions wrapped up at this point So this is just a sort of a I mean I guess the Seahs can still make it right The way Seattle looked last week I mean if the Rams lose this game

I know the Rams and the Seahawks play each other again I'm not ruling it out yet just based on math I feel like the Rams are definitely the better team but I still think that Seattle's in play. I love that I picked this fucking Patriots and the Seahawks make the Super Bowl and that's going to be 100% the Super Bowl. I'm still not ready to pencil

on the Seahawks there yet, but I get what you're saying. As I discussed, I enjoy the fact I don't have to change it yet. No, I understand that. I mean, the fact that the Charters might make the playoffs, the fact that the Eagles are the best team in the NFC, I think I got some wins.

You buy and hold. We're like Bitcoin people. You just hold on to it. Hold on to your picks because it's coming around. I pick the Steelers and the Packers, and the Packers are not out of it yet. Not out of it, baby. Not out of it.

All right. So what do you want to see from these two quarterbacks? Because I think people are viewing this as, you know, I think people still in Los Angeles wish they had Carson Wentz. Yeah, that just seems silly. I mean, golf has been excellent all year. Wentz has been better. Correct. But I still think that with golf in this offense, this is just a win.

Just pencil it in that you have Jared Gough as a quarterback. I don't think you can play that game. I'm not sure the quarterbacks matter here. I mean, they matter, obviously, but I'm more concerned about what the Eagles are going to do up front against the Rams just because what we saw last week is problematic. You know, I wrote this week kind of the injuries that have been widespread around the NFL, who's handled them the best. And for a while, I think you could have said the Eagles losing Peters didn't show up.

then last week you started to see the cracks a little bit when the help doesn't matter when there are a lot of twists and blitzes. I think that the Rams are going to look at that and say, okay, we can replicate that. We can play games on that side and see if it works. So against this Rams front, against a good defensive coordinator,

we'll see if that shows up again. And I'll be curious to see what the Rams try to do against this Eagles defense. Just because it's a really complete unit. I'm not sure if the play action game is going to work as much as it has in other. situations just because I don't know if they'll have as much time. Can that Rams' offensive line hold up against this team?

I think that there's a lot of questions just based on how complete the rest of these rosters are. I'm penciling in the quarterbacks. You have Jerry Goff and Carson-Wence. You're doing just fine right now. The Wence is third of the NFL and third downs with his legs. That's the best thing they do. His ability to kind of create and avoid, that's a lot of what we've seen in terms of

their offensive line not being problematic without Peters. has also been Wence just making plays. I mean, how many guys has he shrugged off in the pocket and then run for first downs? When Rathusberger was doing that kind of stuff, he would extend plays and then throw the ball. Wence actually has mobility, which makes him really dangerous.

So last year I was talking to Brad Childress, and Chilgris had spent a year studying this spread offense. And one of the people that he honed in on was Wence when he was in college. And he called Wens the Holy Grail. And what he meant by that, because he was talking about the discussion we're having was about how to convert college schemes

to pro schemes and it's a sort of a you know it's a decade old conversation at this point but Childish was saying the thing about Wentz is that he can do everything he's so he can take some spread stuff and bring them into the NFL level he can do whatever exactly they've done literal

North Dakota State place they've just taken the place the amount of RPO's they run is amazing and his ability to kind of exist within that is so impressive so he can do that he can do any sort of quote unquote pro-style thing you want. He looks like a pro-style quarterback for sure.

Yeah, he has the personality of a pro-style quarterback. And so, I mean, I just think what we're missing with Wentz when we talk about him is just the flexibility he has within an offense because he can do everything or he can get the third-most third downs on with his legs in the NFL. It's really, I love Carson Wentz. He's an interesting combination of players. I think that luck has some of the, I can run after I can get extra struck guys

off a guy that's big but also mobile but those guys just don't come around that often. Some bad news about Andrew Luck. I'm aware that he's not playing right now. The I can shrug off defenders and run for first down things. Guess what? I would like to see what Carson Wentz does after five straight years of getting hit 90 times

a season. Ryan Grigson? Yeah, or that. I would like to see Carson Wentz with Ryan Grigson. Yes. All right, Vikings and Panthers. Could I be more excited for this game? I just have the same thought Because on paper it looks great Two boxers are like 28 now

And it's like Oh Sneaks up on you a little bit What's going on here I feel like What Minnesota is doing right now I just feel good about whoever they're playing You know it doesn't matter

Who it is They're going to find a way it seems And that's why this Carolina team I feel like is the weakest Of all the NFC contenders quote unquote So that's why I just think that Minnesota is in a sort of

class than the Panthers are right now. But I don't know. I mean, Carolina, they seem like the team that would fall out if a team like Green Bay were to make a run. I mean, that's just the way I see it. They lose this week. They have the Packers a week after. There's a chance that happens.

I'm still not sold with what they can do on offense. I know the running game has been much better. Yes. The running game has been much better as of late, but I still don't know if it's good enough to make up for just the complete Jekyll and Hyde passing game they have right now. I don't have any faith in their ability to move the ball in that way. And against Minnesota, I'm not sure if they'd be able to just line up and run the ball. Because that Vikings defense is just really, really nasty.

And they're playing very well. They're a complete unit right now. I think Carolina is going to have a very hard time moving the ball. I cannot. The Panthers are like in the last three years are a team that I just, I can never get to read on. I mean, I have no idea what to expect from, you know, week after week, you know, the Vikings, I'll give you good, you know, they've dropped the fewest passes in the NFL.

They're, they're a machine. They're just deficient, they're consistent. And that's why, I mean, I assume the Vikings are going to win this game. But then again, the ceiling on the Panthers is as high as any team in the league. See, I don't think it is right now. That's my problem. No, a good Panthers team can be really full. I think that's true, but I don't know if their passing game even has that notch right now.

I seriously don't know. Cam Newton is not playing very well. I don't have any faith in their ability to even find it in that realm. And if they can't, then how good can they really be? That's my question. So the defense is good. The defense has been good all year. They're pretty much what we thought they'd be.

Their defense is just the time marches on with that group. But I don't think it's there with the offense to the point where I would say that. Cam Newton was the fourth highest graded quarterback in the NFL at PFF last week. Number one and number two were Joe Flacco and Blake Bortles. That's amazing. I did not know that. I wrote about Joe Flacco and Blake Borders. I'm not one of these guys who like looks at PFF grades and I'm just like,

what the hell is, you know, remember Aaron Rogers got a negative grade a couple years ago? Everybody go mad. I'm actually mad about this one. Flacco and Bortles being, if Flacco and Bortles are one, two, your system's broken. That's really funny because that was exactly what I wrote about. last Monday, but I did not know that. And actually, I'll go a step further. If it's actually true, then the sport

is broken. Flacco was good last week, man. I know. So is Bortles. Just picking up confidence. So was Bortles. Yeah, no, I mean, I just think that, I guess the Panthers can be good. Come on shorts, doing pretty well. Damn, their defense has players on it. I mean, there's no doubt. I'm curious how good

their corners are going to look against those Vikings receivers this week, because I thought that New Orleans would be able to really sling it around last week against them. And it was really the Saints running backs, again, that made the biggest impact. So the corners to me are the most problematic players on that Panthers defense. Without a doubt. And we'll see if they show up this week.

Last week, I feel like they did a really good job of making life hard for Breeze. And if they can't, if they can do the same, then I feel like this can be a low-scoring game that somebody kind of eaks out at the end. Just wait until Marty Herney takes his team and guides him into the off-season and gives them all seven. The problem is that the defense events have gotten their contract extensions already. Mario Addison just got paid. Pepper's is probably not in line to get one. They're going to give them more money. So they're going to restructure it.

It's going to be the first contract history where they restructured just give them more money for no reason. Guys, time to restructure to give up more cap space. What Panthers fans really have to be happy about is that McCaffrey won't be eligible for an extension for like three more years. Oh my God. So if he were, then, I mean, what would... Think about the deals that Marty gave Jonathan Stewart. And Daniel Williams. What would he give Christian McCaffrey if he was allowed to renegotiate this contract?

He would look at Andrew Luck's deal and be like, you know what? That seems right. Have you seen the thing about how there actually isn't a CBA clause preventing the Redskins from franchising Kirk Cousins again? The cost would be prohibited. It's the only reason, right? No, but there's no... There's no map for it. Oh, there is a...

No, after the third time, so this is ESPN reported this. I signed to meet it out. And they're like, well, they could just have a hearing. And if you continue to increase a 44%, which is what it was, is at near three, it would be he would make $49 million in two years. And so what I'm getting at is that's probably the starting spot for Christian McCaffrey with the Marty Herney contract. 49 million a year Just 49 million a year Just pencil you want to lock in

Christian McCaffer if you're Marty Hurney So you give them 49 a year Anyway Yeah I guess maybe we have two days To talk ourselves into this game I mean I'm excited to watch it Just because I think that it's gonna matter I do want to see

Minnesota is just the type of team Where I want to watch them every week Yeah They have so much talent That it feels like a different guy Really shows up in every single game And that's fun to me Those are the teams I enjoy watching

I think that that's why I want to see a team like it land in the playoffs because you have that Dionne Jones factor every single week you have a guy that can just be an absolute dominant force on one side of the ball and that's fun of me. Minnesota has a dozen of them it feels like right now. I kind of like that all the NFC teams have played like all the good NFC teams are played. Yeah it's been

the schedule has broken. The Vikings played that really well. Yep. The Vikings also played the Rams. And this is great. This is great stuff. The last month or so for NFC games has been excellent. We've just had a lot of matchups that... Rand Eagles this week. Yep. And a lot of matchups that are going to matter as we go down the stretch here.

So it's been nice to watch these teams actually kind of measure themselves up against each other. All right. So we all talked about the Big Bangal-Steuars rivalry and how vicious it was. Stewards got another one. Ravens and Steers. Yeah. I mean, this is one of those games for Baltimore where, okay, are you really a playoff team? Can you kind of hang with the better teams in the end?

Unfortunately, even if the answer is no, they're still probably going to make the playoffs. It's mean, how dangerous could you be if you make the playoffs? I know what you mean. I'm just saying from a viewing standpoint, it doesn't matter if they're a playoff team or not. They're making the playoffs, buddy. Here they are. That's true. For me now, as I've kind of conceded that Baltimore probably will, the next question is,

are the games they play in the playoffs going to be the least bit entertaining? No. Hey, listen, I'm looking at the AFC wildcard picture. Uh-huh. I'm starting to question whether or not the bill should have started Nathan Peterman at San Diego. They absolutely could have made the playoffs. Well, I mean, just the issue is that they started Nathan Peterman against San Diego.

And now they don't have the tiebreaker. Yeah. Yeah. That's a tough beat. I would have not started. I know hindsight is 2020. Nathan Peterman, not a classically good quarterback. My issue right now, more than the Ravens or the Bill is doing that,

the Titans are trash. and they're 8 and 4. The fact that we just have to watch this Titans team probably in the first round is just I don't understand it. The Ravens now have actually become interesting to me have kind of gone the other way. The defense is so good

and I don't know, the flacco factor is weird that I care more about them than I do about Tennessee. Titans have been such a boring football team all year. I'm obsessed with the idea the Jaguars and the Chargers are going to play a first round playoff game at Step Up Center.

The Chargers absolutely can win the division. Here's the thing. because the thing that Chargers have lucked out on is that every team they've played has had a lot of transplants in the Snowhop Center so at least you've got the Eagles or the Browns this week is the Redskins after that's the Raiders no problems there are plenty of DC people around

around L.A. and the Raiders are the Raiders. So I've been thinking like oh next year they're going to play the Bengals, they're going to play the Ravens, they're going to play the AFC South champions like that's when the crowd is just going to be like 15,000 people for an NFL game and then I realized it could happen next month in a playoff game. Yeah.

This is a great experiment. This is wonderful. I was with the Chargers all week. That's why I'm sitting across from you, which we haven't mentioned that yet. I'm here. I was with the Chargers all week in Costa Mesa. You can't let everyone know that because then they would know that you're not here sometimes. Yeah, I'm mostly not here.

Don't pull the curtain back, Robert. I don't live in Los Angeles. They think we're staring into each other's eyes as we deliver these takes. So I was with the Chargers all week. asking a couple of those guys just about the feeling around the team and how much it's changed and everything else, they feel good.

I think they're of the mind that they can beat pretty much anybody right now. And they can. So it just feels like they're definitely the best option in that division right now. I mean, they're all six and sixths. And there's no reason why that division

winner can't be nine and seven. I mean, there's a good chance it will be. It's going on with the Chiefs, man. It's a disaster. I mean, it's an absolute disaster. What do you want? I mean, do you think that the Baltimore actually has a chance?

against the Ravens? Oh, yeah. Excuse me. Against the Steelers? I don't know. I mean, the Steelers are giving up more... This is what makes me laugh. The Steelers are giving up more 50-yard touchdowns

in the passing game than any of the team in the NFL. Almost all of them have come since Joe Hayden's injury. Yep. I have some good news to the Steelers. Joe Flacco is not going to throw a 50-yard touchdown pass. This is what I'm interested in. We saw that Baltimore passing game last week. The Steelers have been prone to giving those up.

it's going to be Who knew Joe Hayden was so good, by the way? I don't mean that flippantly. Like, they really do give up way more big play since he got injured. Cody Sensible had a really nice game against Tennessee, which is his first start, and then it's been an issue since.

So that's what I want to see. I mean, Baltimore's passing him was very good last week. Is that the start of something? Is that an aberration? Or are they going to start pushing the ball down field a little bit more? Because it seems like this is the game where they would start doing that.

And the other thing that I'm curious about, is what the Ravens look like without Jimmy Smith for an entire game against a team that can really throw the ball. This is a very big test for Marla Albury. Can Jimmy Smith serve his PED suspension well injured? I believe so. Amazing.

Yeah. Works out. Amazing. What a time to be Jimmy Smith. What a league. What a set of rules that is. Megan is wait for him to go on IR or never put him on IR. Right?

Or does the game, does it count if he's on IR? I think it counts if he's on IR. Amazing. That's my understanding of the rule. I might be wrong. I'm sure they'll figure out a way to make that happen. To make it happen. Yeah, it'll be fine.

The world's least consequential PED suspension. They're going to miss him. What I was concerned about with losing Smith isn't that I think the Ravens defense is suddenly going to be bad. Yeah. Because slotting in a first round pick who's had some moments as a rookie is not a bad option if you're going to have to play a backup corner. But the Ravens defense, I feel like needed to be so good and so complete to make up. for how bad that offense has been. I just don't think they can do it.

I mean, Baltimore, it's kind of funny. It's not funny. It's kind of unfortunate. I think the Ravens are so much closer to being a real contender than it even seems. I know they're probably going to make the playoffs, but I was watching them on film this week a lot because I was writing about, again,

injuries and how they've shown up. And I was watching the running game and what it looks like without Yonda. And have Dan Skora as their right guard and James Hurst, a convert a tackle, as their left guard. And it's not like it's a disaster. Me watch, and it's like, oh, they know what they're doing.

It's just every once in a while there's a miscommunication, or there's just kind of a misstep on a pole, or they screw up a combo block, and it's a two-yard game that could have been eight. And what Yanda would be on this team, I know he's a guard, it would make such a huge difference. Because if they had a running game, Alex Collins is good. If they had, like, a dominant running game, like a top eight running game in terms of efficiency, I think they could be a real team. And it just is unfortunate that this is the year where they miss Marshall Yonda for the entire. season. We're going to have to watch a team in the playoffs.

Yeah. The defense is good, man. I like, I like, let me, let me take one step back. I like a lot of people. And I, earlier in this podcast said that Joe Flacco had a personality. Yeah, there you go. I think I like Alex Collins. I like a lot of those guys. Like Jimmy Smith as a person. The defense has intriguing pieces. Trell Suggs into big spots, never a problem. John Harbaugh, like him. But having said that, I just wish there was some mythical sixth the AFC wildcard team that could just take the spot.

It seemed like the Chargers might be that team if Baltimore did. That's the thing. Now we're going to have to watch the trash chiefs in the playoffs. It's funny that how far we've come on the Chiefs, the Chiefs are the most exciting team in football for the first month. That's another example. That's another example. We said the Chiefs couldn't win the Super Bowl. They were one of the 14 teams that could not. And we were not. And we were, We got raked through the coals, and we panicked.

You and I panicked. We backed off. We said we were wrong. We weren't wrong. The only thing I was right about was that the Broncos were really bad. I had that. I'm still, the jury's still out of my Giants prediction.

I feel like the Giants could go on a run. I feel like the Giants could put it together a little bit. If they were in the AFC, they absolutely could still like the playoffs. I mean, it would be the three seed. All right. What's our last game? last game Seahawks at Jaguars

Love this game Gus Bradley Bowl Yeah He's still the coach of the Jaguars Right Yeah that was tough That was a rough moment That was tough

I feel bad for that guy Can I tell you something I sometimes think Gus Bradley is coach the Jaguars Have you ever done that before Like in the middle of a press conference Just had something that was completely and utterly wrong

I have not asked a question At a press conference since 2011 Stanley Cup files At the Wallis Journal We were taught never to ask questions or press conferences, because then people find out what you're doing. Yeah, that makes total sense.

I wait for the side. Yeah, that's usually what I do as well. So everyone knows, the vast majority of press conferences are for television cameras, basically. So a lot of writers will wait until the cameras are off. Yes. And some teams do cameras than just the writers.

Yes. For coaches. They do that. I don't want to. get too in the weeds on that stuff. And then baseball, like everybody does that. Yeah, because you talk to the manager

in his office typically. Baseball's a weird sport to cover. It's been a long time since I've covered a baseball game. But the fact that that was my second job as a beatwriter, like my second big sport that I ever did. What was it? I covered the Red Sox my first summer out of college. What?

Yeah. I was an intern at the Boston Globe. I covered the Red Sox pretty much the entire summer. I mean, I did everything else there. Sure. But for the most part, summer newspaper internships, you do a lot of baseball, shockingly. Yeah, for those who don't know, a Seahawks, Seattle writer, asked Pete Carroll during a press conference this week, what he thinks about Gus turning around the Jaguars. I actually spoke to Gus Bradley this week.

He's the defensive coordinator for the Chargers. He's turning the Chargers around. They've been really good. He's turning somebody around. They've been very, very good. I'm intrigued by this game. It's a good game. I mean, it's just a game between two good teams.

more than I like Vikings Panthers. This game is, I just, I think stylistically, this game is fun. There's a lot of individual matchups that I'm interested in. I feel like the Seahawks could really give the Jack some problems on offense. I think this would be a low scoring game. Without a doubt. Yeah. And I just want, I'm so interested in Russell Wilson working miracles back there that I want to see it against a defense this good.

So the conversation now, I mean, I think a lot of people brought it up after they beat Philadelphia. it was can Russell Wilson be the MVP? And then there was a lot of weird Russell Wilson hasn't been that good backlash on football Twitter. Have you seen the players on the Seattle offense? Russell Wilson is incredible. I don't understand how there's any other opinion than this. I understand that his numbers might not be good.

Efficiency-wise, maybe his overall, his season hasn't stacked up to some of the other seasons he's had. I have no idea how you can watch Seattle and be like, yeah, Russell Wilson just isn't that good this year. I'm going to give some of the tape people, you know, that whole crew. I'm just going to give them my perspective on things. If you look around and everybody in your unit sucks and yet like you're doing well enough to win a bunch of games, it usually means the quarterback is good or the running back is good or somebody's good. You know the old thing about like if you can't find the sucker, the sucker is you?

Yeah. If you can't find the good player, the good player is you. And that's Russell Wilson. Like there's no other reason for the Seahawks offense to be in any way competent. Seattle has the 11th ranked passing offense by DVOA. Seattle is 8 and 4. If Russell Wilson was not the quarterback of the Seahawks, where would they rank in passing and what would their record be?

If they didn't have Russell Wilson? Yes. I mean, they would have folded. It's a franchise. Yeah. They would not be in the NFL anymore. So the point is moot. Yeah, there wouldn't.

There wouldn't be a ranking because they wouldn't be an NFL team. No, they'd have moved to Portland and become a hockey team or something. The second soccer team in Portland, that's how it could support two professional soccer teams. And that expansion NHL team would just be the Seahawks. They would just make them, Michael Bennett skate around. Just like put a dome over CenturyLink. Yeah, they'd be like, we can't play football anymore. Russell Wilson, I, listen, you're a big awards guy.

I'm not. I love it. Rosa Wilson is absolutely in the MVP conversation. Yeah. I mean, he is. I don't think he will win it. I still think that right now we're cruising toward a Tom Brady MVP win, but I still think that if we're breaking down the race,

Russell Wilson deserves mention. You know what it helps Tom Brady is the fact that all of the conversation in the beginning of the season was how bad the Patriots defense was. Yes. So now everyone just kind of, let's peel back the curtain a little bit, but the vast majority of football writers are not paying attention every week to every team in the league. A lot of them are beat writers. A lot of them are local guys.

and so they normally don't have much time to check in and make sure narratives are outdated or up to date, whatever. It's so true. And so like when people are voting, they're going to be like, oh, look, Tom Brady got the Patriots 13 and 3 despite that crappy defense. And so this is a narrative award more than anything. And so I think it's got to be Brady.

And the fact that it could be Wenz. And that's the reason that I feel like the narrative has a role here is that Wenz took a hit last week. We'll see what they do down the stretch. If they lose this week, then it's, Then there's a weird, is Jared Gough better than Carson Went's momentum, which I don't think is true. But if the Rams win this week, that absolutely will come up. So I agree.

I think that the narrative elements definitely support Tom Brady more than anyone else at this point. When you play once a week, it's a narrative league. 100%. You know what happens in the NBA? They just play more games. Yeah, that's true. In the NFL, we play a game, and then we have a week of narrative. And then we play the game, and then the narrative from the past week is just completely different.

And nobody cares. It's funny to cover. No one's held accountable for the narrative they had last week. It's amazing. It reminds me a lot of, like, English soccer. Like, I listen to a lot of soccer podcast. And, like, on Monday, you know, like Liverpool win a game one-nothing. And the beginning is just like, they've announced themselves as title contenders.

And, like, four days ago, they were like, this two sucks. Like, that's what the NFL has become. I'll be curious to see what the Seahawks offense looks against Jacksonville. I think that, again, this will be a conjuring plays kind of based on. attack if they're going to do anything. I also think that the Jags really don't match up well against Seattle's defense. The one thing you can kind of do

on Seattle right now is push the ball down the field outside the numbers is because the secondary isn't at full strength, obviously. Jacksonville doesn't have that. I think that they're going to have trouble running the ball. This is a good, this breaks well for Seattle in terms of having a shot in this game. I think that a team

as good as Jacksonville all around, the Jags are built the exact wrong way to give Seattle problems. Okay, it's time for my hottest take. I actually believe this is easy. I wrote this morning. I believe two things that seem to be, three things that seem to be in contradiction, but are not.

Number one, I don't believe a long-term Sam Hinky-esque process can work in the NFL, okay, over a three-year span. I think that if you want to do it in one or two years, that's fine. It's not a true process, but we're going to leave that aside. The second thing I believe is that John Dorsey is a great general manager. and he's one of my favorite people in the NFL just from an evaluation standpoint. The third thing, and again, these have nothing to do with the first two things. The Browns should have not fired Sashi Brown.

I agree with all those things. Because what do you have now? You have, Jimmy Haslam just said this in the last hour. Next year, Hugh Jackson, Paul D. Podesta, and John Dorsey will all report to ownership. What the hell is that? Three people who have, I don't want to say, you know, I don't mean agenda as, you know, I don't mean they have an agenda.

I mean, but they do have, you have different agendas. Different humans have different agendas unless they are all tied at the hip. None of these three people are tied at the hip. I don't understand what the point of doing it this way would be. It's just a recipe for disaster. Why wouldn't you just make John Dorsey the head of the football program? The only way to win in the NFL. have a plan and stick with it.

So I'm not saying Sashi Brown is Ron Wolf all of a sudden, but what I am saying is they had a plan, and as long as you stick with it, that's a way towards relevance. The one thing you cannot do is continue to come up with these strategies and then bail on them.

Why does Hugh Jackson deserve to keep his job more than Sashi Brown? Why, did you see the thing about the offensive coordinator? So Hugh didn't want an offensive coordinator because he knew it would be a bad offense and then they would take the fall and they'd have to get fired, right? I have a question.

What? Yeah, no, no, that's what he said. That's reset. Oh, my God. Didn't one off the coordinator after take the fall. So, I have a question. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

I mean, you should have heard the press comments yesterday. Because I guarantee you, I guarantee you there's some gems in there. I was with the Chargers all day yesterday. I saw none of this. That's amazing. I can't.

I believe that happened. So, so. Thank you for telling me that. I'm glad I got to hear that from you. It was even better. So what I'm saying is that why, why was it a foregone conclusion that the Browns were going to be bad on offense?

The quarterback guru, I'm going to get angry every second. I guess it's just in the microphone. Mr. quarterback guru, Mr. quarterback guru has four allegedly NFL ready quarterbacks. Now, we're a little over a year or more. moved from Hugh Jackson himself saying trust me with the selection of Cody Kessler a year later we trusted him and Cody Kessler's not even

in this little rotation at the start of the year okay Brock Flyers in it's a starting pitcher rotation more than Kaiser's in it Kevin Hogan's in at Cody Kessler is somewhere on a milk cart okay but we have to say oh well this was going to be a bad offense well why look at the New York Jets they have a Macown

one of those McCown by the way I made a joke on a video of the day that there was a third McCown somewhere Turns out there was a third McCown name Randy, and he played for Texas A&M. It's the best name. There's a Randy McCown floating around America, who's also a quarterback. You could have thrown him in this Brown's quarterback competition too, okay? So you have a McCown in New York, and the comparison here is Cleveland and New York.

You have a McCown in New York. You have Robbie Anderson, okay? What did John Morton do? He created an offense because that's what offensive coaches do. The offense is really fun. They have no talent whatsoever. You know what offensive coordinators do? They build an offense.

And you know what they don't do? They don't look at an entire season and say, well, it's obvious we're going to be bad. So we might as well not try. Maybe John Morton should be the head coached the Browns. He seems to know how to do more with less. The idea that you pick a quarterback in the second round and then spend the entire season, making that quarterback think he could be yanked at any time for any reason is the exact wrong way to handle this. That's why, in my opinion,

Hugh Jackson was just as much a candidate to get fired as Sashi Brown was, if not more. I feel like the selection of the players in Cleveland has been better than the implementation of the players in Cleveland. And that's on Hugh Jackson. I have no idea what the argument is for keeping Hugh and firing Sashi Brown. I don't know. None.

It makes no sense to me. I think the talent that they have acquired has been pretty solid. I think that the way they've gone about acquiring that talent is very solid. And I think that the way they've put that talent into practice has been absolute garbage. It's just infuriating. It's why you're making the Browns?

I don't care about the Browns. The Kenny Brick contract is a nightmare. That I will more than willing to admit. You also had Corey Coleman, who's shown flashes. I mean, a good offensive coordinator could have done some things with this offense. There is no law that says the Browns had to be terrible this year. They had a decent offensive line.

Yeah. Joe Thomas getting in. hurt sucks. But they sucked before Joe Thomas. Got hurt. That's fair. Yeah. Also, I was watching them, and they're another team where, okay, what have they done to

overcome the loss of a very good player? Nothing. It's like, let Spencer, they've let Spencer Drango go at it one-on-one on the outside. I was re-watching the Jacksonville game, the thing I was writing, putting him against Yon-Kiguan-Wanganky one-on-one. You were re-watching a Brown's Jaguars game? Yeah. It wasn't fun.

Got to do what you got to do, man. Put in the homework. My new charity is hobbies for maze. I have plenty of hobbies. I just want to do my job in a complete way. Listen, buddy, no one works harder than I do. Having said that, I'm not going to rewatch Brown's Jaguars. I am a extremely devoted to my craft writer,

and I draw the line right before Jaguar's Browns. You know what? Sometimes you've got to bite the bullet. And rewatching the Eagles to be like, How have they made up for Jason Peters? That was really enjoyable. I was like, oh, this team is so well coached and da-da-da. I was not pumped up to put on the Browns game.

And it was about as bad as I figured it would be. That is a good segue, though, because Roberts, what are we missing this week? Is Yoni Kankakeway against Wayne Brown? Hey! I think that we've talked a lot about bigger names on the Jaguars defense. You know, Clayas Campbell's had a monster season. Jalen Ramsey is very fun. I wrote a big story about Jalen Ramsey.

A.J. Boyer has had a really nice season. in, even guys like Miles Jack. In Gakway, to me, is he's the type of player that kind of unlocks an entire unit. When you can find a third round pick that becomes a serious problem,

that's when you get really, really good. And Telfin Smith is another good example. When you can find a guy in the fifth round, it's being able to hit those gems on top of your top five picks, your big free agents. And Ingakway has been that. He's really good as a rookie, and he's been excellent.

this season. What they can do with him, Calais, Malik Jackson, and then the combination of Marcel Darius and Dante Fowler in certain situations in nickel is just so terrifying because they can hit you in four different ways. I mean, it's four guys that are problems in individual one-on-one matchups. And they use in Gauqua as the right defensive end in a lot of these nickel situations, and that means

he's going against Twain Brown, pretty much all game. And I think that that's the quieter element that has really given Seattle a chance down the stretch here is that Dwayne Brown is such a huge upgrade from what they had and changes their offense so much. If they didn't have him against Philly, I don't think that game happens the way that it does. I think that result is much different. So you're going to see an excellent left tackle go up against a very underrated but very

problematic right defense event, just a pure pass rusher that in Gokwe is. And it's a fun matchup. And I think that you may not hear his name as much because of Dwayne Brown. I think that that trade that Seattle made and then, what those kind of quieter players have been for Jacksonville could be the biggest stories for each of them this season

and this week you have one of them going against the other. Love it. I'm fired up for this game. It's a good one. It's fun. There's a lot of just games within this game that are really enjoyable. We'll see what happens with Doug Baldwin and that Jacksonville secondary.

He's going to play in the slot a lot. That means a lot of Aaron Colvin. We'll see what they do with Ramsey. I mean, there's a lot of stuff at play here just schematically that I think is going to be interesting. I want to see, I know there's a million reasons we want to see healthy Seahawks defense, I would have

loved to have seen a healthy Legion of Boom, healthy defensive line with the Seahawks against Blake Bordals. I think that the Jaguros will run the ball 47 times in this game. Without a doubt. It's going to be great. Even without Camp Chancellor and Mr. Sherman, I think that's going to happen.

Against the Steelers, they threw it like 11 times. Yeah, it's the move. I love it. It is the move. All right, coming up, Danny Kelly is here with his fantasy football playoff dark night. that can win you your league. Also, Robert and I will offer next week's headlines. It's the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network.

Today's episode is sponsored by Action Heat. They make the world's best heated clothing, Robert. That's really good news because I should get some for me when I get back home. It's about 25 degrees. I'm dreading getting on this plane this afternoon. Well, Action Heat is the perfect solution to keep you warm, even in the most frigid winter weather. I don't have to worry about that.

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That's action dash heat.com slash NFL. Or use the coupon code NFL at checkout to save 15%. Stay warm this winter with Action Heat, and we thank them for sponsoring this podcast. All right, fantasy football playoffs to underwomenes. way so Danny Kelly is here. He's our fans football genius. He's back. He's been restored to his throne. Good for you, buddy. Thank you. I thank you. It's a long time coming. How are you, buddy? I'm doing excellent. How are you guys doing? How are you doing with this wave of optimism in Seahawks fandom? I'm riding it. I'm just riding that wave. It's, uh, yeah, people are feeling real good right now.

It was a big game though. Yeah. It's a huge game. I mean, the NFC is crazy. Yeah, it really is. We were talking about that, just how all the NFC teams have played each other, all the good ones. And then as soon as the Seahawks get a reprieve from that, they have to play the Jacks. Yep. And they got the Rams still. So it's going to be tough. But yeah, I mean, overall optimism, you know, got my guy Jimmy Graham. He's back.

I want to talk about him a little bit later. Let's get into that, buddy. All right. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to, Danny, you're going to tell us who our league winners are at each position this year. These are guys who can win people's leagues for them, start. with the QB. Yeah, so our producer Sean Keating was just, we were talking about what

we should talk about and we were thinking, like, who are the guys that are just going to just win people their leagues? And the first quarterback that came to mind for me was Carson Wentz. I mean, Russell Wilson's schedule down the stretch is really brutal. So, and Wentz has just been really

consistent all year. Obviously, he had a little bit of an off day last week, but I mean, I say off day at 348 passing yards, but I just think if you look at his schedule, obviously they got the Rams this week, that's tough. But then they face the Giants and Raiders. So, I mean, he could just go off and they're still going to be fighting

for, I think, the number one seed down the stretch. You know, they're not going to kind of pull off the throttle. So to me, just the way that the Phillies offense is running with the Wences playing, he can scramble, he's got touchdown upside as kind of a runner too. So, yeah, to me, he's

a guy that is just going to, it's going to suck if you're facing him. I agree. Yeah. I mean, he might be a real life league winner. And also he's the type of guy that season long has won people their leagues. I mean, it's the players that go undrafted and then become

first or second best player at those position. That's how you win. And that's exactly what Carson Wentz has been all year. Oh yeah, absolutely. At the running back position, I was going to say Kamara, but he played last night, obviously, and then got hurt. You know, going forward, he could be that guy. But you know who came to mind

for me is Christian McCaffrey, the Panthers. I didn't realize it, but he's actually second among running backs right out to Lavian Bell in catches. You know, he's been a huge, huge part of their offense. They got, again, it's a tough schedule this week, but then going down the stretch, they got the Packers and the Bucks. They got the Vikings this week.

And then two really, you know, pretty bad, like middling to bad defenses, past defenses down the stretch. So I think they're going to lean on him a lot. He's just a, you know, low, he's a low floor or high floor guy in terms of, you know, he's just going to get his catches. I think he's like five, six catches every week type of guy. So I think McCaffrey is kind of one of those guys that it's just he's so consistent that he could be the guy that puts you forward. I also think their running game is just kind of finding itself a little bit.

It's much better than it was early in the season. They're going to try to run the ball. I mean, this is a team that's near the top of the league and rushing percentage. They're going to run the ball no matter what. And if they can find their footing even more so, then you take that high floor that McCaffrey has and the ceiling goes up even more. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, and he hasn't even been. like a major touchdown guy

he will like he has that upside still too so yep my to say his destiny is to lead the league and he already has in screen grabs where the defense sells out to stop him yeah and then like Greg Olson picks up 14 yards or whatever like that's

that's his best strength right now is just like the defense Alma Kamara's coming for that title next year the defense is just worrying about him so much and you cannot put a value on that. Mays, my receiver on this, I know he's probably,

you're probably the president of the fan club here, Keenan Allen. Yes, sir. You know, of the Chargers. He's just been ridiculous lately. Yeah. First player in NFL history

with 10 catches, 100 plus yards, and a touchdown in three straight games. That's crazy. First ever? He's had just a remarkable run here. And I think that, Keenan Allen's career has been impressive

from the start. He was really good as a rookie, which kind of started, it actually started, you know, on the wrong note, but that's a different story. He was been really good as a rookie, but now you kind of just, this is a different level.

And I think they're using him in different ways. He's never played in the slot this much. And I think that that's why he's kind of found another notch. So, yeah, I mean, I've loved watching Keenan Allen from the moment he started the NFL, but this year just is a completely different level. This week, he's got the Redskins. So he might get matched up with Josh Norman a little bit.

But going forward, and this is DVO rankings against number one, receivers. He's got the chiefs who are 31st and the Jets who are 27th. So, I mean, he could feast, you know, just basically in the semifinals and the finals for you if you have them on your team. So that's awesome. For tight end, I had to put him in here. I wrote about him today. Jimmy Graham, I think he's just on such a freaking streak with touchdowns, the way that they're using him inside the five-yard line now has been like a revelation for the team. Plus, the Seahawks just don't have a goal line back at this point, like they have one rushing touchdown

all year from a running back, I should say. That's incredible. So he's their goal line back. I've seen a couple, you know, really, I've seen a couple guys talking about this on Twitter, and I'm kind of stealing their thunder on that, but yeah, he's essentially their goal line back. So for me, he's the guy that they're

really relying on when they get in deep, and you know, he could, you know, I mean, he could just have touchdown upside every week. I think why stop now, honestly, is kind of what I'm saying. They've just relied on it. He's been really good. It's unstoppable. That back shoulder fade, he just boxed guys out and

kind of finally figured out how to use them. I mean, that's what the name of the game is, especially for tight ends and fantasy. I mean, this year when there's no options, why not go with the guy who gets three or four red zone targets every single week? He has 12 red zone, he has 12 targets inside the five yard line this year, which

I think is like seven more than the next closest guy. Yeah, that's incredible. And in the last, in this century, so since 2000, only one players had more over a full season, that's DeMarius Thomas. So he's, he's, like, historically targeted inside the five-yard line this year. There you go. It was Demarius Thomas, the recipient of those, because of Peyton Manning's, like, goal-line

passing offense? I think it was, yeah, I think it was in 2013. It was all those rub routes. That makes sense. It feels like Julius Thomas got so many, though, that there might not be that made it go around. I guess that's how often that scene was in the red. There were a lot of three-yard-paniting touchdown.

There you go. Yeah. 55 touched us. Let's get to the Dark Nights. And you guys, I know Mays, you've been talking about Gropold. Why do we not have a song? Do we got our intro song? No, we don't have one.

We should have one. Just play like the booms, like the Hodge Zimmer booms? The Inception one? I want to have like a ticking clock in the background kind of like get the, get your blood up a little bit. Yeah, the ticking clock. That's a big Christopher Nolan thing. Yeah. Which is like the intro.

Yeah. We're going to workshop this. That's fine. A lot of buzz for Danny. I've gotten like 10 tweets about this for Danny to give these on Tuesday from now on. Yeah. We can think about that going forward. Hey, crowdsourcing is an important part of the internet.

So we appreciate everyone's input. Makes sense. All right. All Twitter mentions are valid and not. 99% of them are completely insane. I'm off base. I'm biting my tongue on that one. That is not true.

I'm joking. Let's get to these. They're all horrible. All right. So my first dark night for this week is Markey's Goodwin, 49ers. Obviously, with Garoppolo starting, it kind of changes the picture for the 49ers passing game. You know, last week, Goodwin was the clear number one guy in that offense. He caught all eight of his targets for 99 yards.

He was running, you know, slants and, you know, outrouts toward the sideline. He wasn't just a, he's not like a one-trick pony. He still has that deep threat speed. And, you know, he has that touchdown upside just because he's such a deep threat. And especially in the Mike Shanahan, or Kyle Shanahan, sorry, the Kyle Shanahan offense. which is so heavily dependent on play action and all that. So I think just the fact that, you know, Garoppolo seems to be looking for him. They're going up against a middling to bad Texans defense,

who's giving up a lot of points in the last few weeks. And the other thing that's weird is Goodwin's actually still second on that team in Red Zone looks. So they're, you know, he's just kind of the guy. And Trent Taylor was a big, you know, sort of a big factor last week too. But I'm going with Goodwin in this one. Yeah, I mean, they, without Garstone, they need somebody to kind of eat up those targets and that's exactly what he's been.

I was shocked at how many different ways they used him. It was stat lines been pretty decent, but I haven't watched a lot of C.J. Bethard led 49ers offense this year. I'll admit it. But watching all of that game against with Garapolo, I mean, I was very impressed with him and their usage. I think he's going to be a factor in the stretch for sure. I'm starting him over Amari Cooper this week.

Like that's a type of choice I'm willing to make at this point. Yeah, that's the playoffs for you right there. Amari Cooper's been that story all year. Of course. But that's how good. But that's how good I feel about Marquis Goodwin, just in terms of usage. Yeah, absolutely. My second Dark Knight, and this is kind of a boom or bust type of guy,

but I'm rolling with him this week. Deshawn Jackson, the Buccaneers, against the Lions. I think Darius Slay is probably going to be pretty preoccupied with Mike Evans this week. Slays has been their shutdown guy. He's been shadowing some of the best receivers in NFL. He's been really good. But I think Jackson has, again, he's that deep threat that has the high touchdown upside in terms of if he gets behind a defense, it's over.

I think that we could see James Winston play some hero ball just towards the end of the season, kind of let him lose. He looked pretty good last week, or his numbers did anyway. And so, yeah, I think Jackson, with the way that they've used him, he's the number two guy in that offense. How is that a departure for James Winston? Yeah, that's pretty much what we always get. Maybe, well, yeah, that's true.

Maybe even more. It's been a frustrating season for Sean Jackson owners. I can tell you that much. I mean, that offense just is maddening in every single way. But I get where you're going. Yeah. So he's a little bit of boom or bust for me. But, yeah, I'm rolling with him this week if you're looking for a guy to put it in your flex spot.

My third one is probably, you know, I think this is probably pretty obvious, but Josh Gordon, the Browns. He got 11 targets last week. I know. I mean, this is not like a deep sleeper pick for me. But, I mean, for people who aren't quite on board yet, I think he proved last week that he's back. He went up against Casey Hayward, who's a very good corner, you know, one of the top corners in the NFL. I think even Hayward said that he was the hardest matchup he's had all year, which is crazy, considering Hayward's defended some of the best receivers in the NFL this year. And so, yeah, I mean, if you're not, if you've been leery to get on board with Josh Gordon, this is my, this is me convincing you that he's legit.

He looked really good. Plus, yeah, like you said, 11 targets, they're going to force feed him the ball. The Packers have the 22nd ranked DVOA, defense per DVOA. And then they're 29th this year against number one receivers for DOA. So Kevin King's on IR. Devon House, I think, is, I don't know if he's going to play around. He's been nursing his shoulder injury this week. And so they're depleted in the secondary as well.

So, yeah, to me it's a good matchup. And he proved last week that, you know, he's back. We have one more. And is this your darkest night coming up? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, this is the darkest night. This is the one we need the song for.

This is definitely the darkest night. All right, Dan, Dan, let's do this. Oh, here we go. So Mixon missed practice again this week on Friday, and so he's probably not going to play. And to me, this is an injury contingent dark night. So if Mixen plays, please ignore this advice. But Giovanni Bernard looked pretty good last week, you know, pretty quick.

He had 13 carries for 77 yards, added a couple of catches for 19 yards. That's against a good defense last week, too. And so I just think that the bankers, Engel's offense is kind of flown under the radar a little bit. I think Andy Dalton's been pretty decent. They're obviously nothing like super exciting or anything like that. They go really slow. They don't run very many plays.

But I think that with mixing out, Jeremy Hill is on the IR. They don't really have anyone else. They're going to force feed him against a bear's defense that is banged up and everything. So to me, if you're looking for like a flex play or running back two or three, he could be a guy right now just based on the injury. I can't believe I have to watch Bengals Bears this weekend Why do you have to watch it? Because it's going to be on wherever I am

You don't And because you can't help yourself You know I will watch the game The future is what you made The future is unwritten I will watch the game I watch the Bears game still every week

I will watch the game I'm just not looking forward to it It makes sense Danny I mean if Mixon's not playing He's going to get a lot of work The Bears defense is fine But it's nothing where all that volume Would be to

I mean the All that volume is plenty against this bear's defense for him to be worth. I want to go back to this Bengals Barrisic. You don't have to watch it, Robert. I will watch all the Bears games. You can save yourself. You can watch another games. I will watch all the Bears games.

Nothing is written. Having you seen Lawrence of Arabia, I don't watch one game at a time. The games are on. And the Bears game will be prominently featured. You can position yourself to where you're watching a better game. No, I'll watch a lot of the Bears game. I will watch a lot of it.

Sorry, buddy. I'm going to watch a lot of it. lot of it. That's how it's going to go. How are you feeling about Chibisky? This is a subject. Fine. I feel fine. I am right now in a position similar to what I would have been with the Rams last year. Until all of this changes,

I'm passing no judgment. He has not been a disaster. I mean, this is not irredeemable. There is a chance with the right coaching staff, with a couple better options on the outside because he has none, that this is going to be okay. We're probably beyond writing off rookie quarterbacks, right?

After what we've seen? Yeah, yeah. This has so many parallels to Goff. So that's where I am. Can I just say something? This has nothing to do with Trubisky. There's nothing to do with Trubisky. I think Trubisky can improve a lot. I think we're playing a dangerous game where we now think all bad

quarterbacks are going to be good because of Jared Goff. It's not that. I don't think he's been that bad. And I think that the situation is terrible. And with an improvement in situation, he can be fun. I'm saying, I'm just saying the golf lesson will always be the exception, not the rule. if you look bad, you're bad.

If Mahomes comes in next year and is bad with Andy Reid, I'm not going to say, you know how he can get better with a better office coach and a second agreement. That's why I prefaced up by saying that was not a Trubisky point. Just overall, like, let's not learn the wrong lessons from Jared Goff.

That's fine. Yeah, but on the other hand, now maybe people will be a little less likely to completely write someone off. I think we should take it on a case-by-case basis. I would like to go the other way and write people off. more quickly.

We know. We know. I don't have time to wait and see. I need to write people off as soon as possible. Danny, thank you very much, buddy. We'll talk to you next week. All right, sounds good. Thanks, guys.

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All right, Rob, before we go, next week's biggest headlines, give us a prediction. I think this is the week where we can, I'm not saying it's going to be a widespread headline. I'm just saying it's going to exist. If the Vikings win this week. Close. Okay. If the Vikings win this week, we are definitely going to get a, why isn't Case Keenham the MVP conversation? It is going to happen.

How much weight does it have? I don't know. I feel like he's been so much better than anyone who could. have imagined. I still don't think he's the MVP of the league. Adam The one's probably the MVP of that offense, but absolutely it is going to exist if the Vikings win. Is Case Keenham the

real MVP question mark? I just Google Case Keenheim to MVP. Here are the websites that have covered this. The Viking age.com Sporting soda.com and

there's a start Tribune article asking if he's in the top 10. So this is not a widespread thought. It is not. But if they win again, let's say the Rams lose. So another rough day

for Wence, hypothetically. Brady, it doesn't matter what Brady does. He's just kind of a boring option, so there's less heat around that. I think this could be the week where it actually comes up in a national form, not on sporting soda.com. I work for sporting soda.com. I'm not, nothing

wrong with sporting soda.com. I'm not trying to disparage it. I'm just saying, I think it could get outside of those walls. I just want to be clear it's sporting soda SOTA. SOTA, not SOTA. I got what you're going. I work for sporting soda with a D.com. Ah, okay. Yeah. What is that?

It's where we skateboard and drink, uh, dive mountain do. I figured that was just, it was all on all sport. That's slightly carbonated in a sports drink. It's doing sports while drinking soda. Gotcha, okay. We just shred on the half pipe. It's skateboarding sports?

Yeah, it's extreme sports. Interesting, okay. Yeah, it's extreme sports because it's the best sport. It's extreme, it's extreme. It's extreme sports. Sure, yeah, yeah, and it becomes more extreme while you're drinking soda. But it has to be like some sort of Mountain Dew Addo. Have you ever seen a Mountain Dew ad where they're not skateboarding?

That's a good point. This is like the Drew Breast thing. You're just getting owned all the time here. All right, buddy. All right. That was it. That was it. That was your headline.

No, it's going to be the NFC. It's going to be the beautiful chaos in the NFC and what that's going to look like because those are going to, as we said at the beginning of the show, we're at the quarter mark of the season, three quarter mark of the season, and we don't know what's going to happen. And I feel like the NFC is as intriguing as it ever has been.

I'm not as intrigued with the AFC right now because I kind of feel like there's a Patriots and everybody else. I know you love the Steelers, but I really feel like the Patriots are going to merge out of that. And so you just get a situation where the NFC is going to be as fun of playoffs as I can remember. and I have no idea what's going to happen. Yeah, the timing is good with Ian Malcolm

making his return to television yesterday with that new Jurassic Park ad. It feels like life finds away. You think about, here's the headline on Monday. It's going to be the winner of golf once. Yep. But then you have Vikings Panthers. You already had last night, Saints Falcons.

Seahs play the Jags. Big game. This is, you know, I joke a lot about, you remember in college football when they just like nickname weekends? You know, it was like survival Saturday or whatever. Like that's that's this man Like we're learning a lot

Every week Every week It's like that now I love it The NRC's been fun as hell That's it for today We'll be back on Tuesday To recap week 14

As always Thanks for listening to the Ringer NFL show On the Ringer podcast network Thanks guys