The Ringer NFL Show - Jalen Hurts Out Indefinitely, Colts Move On From Chris Ballard, and the Biggest Story Lines Through Week 6

Episode Date: October 20, 2026

Sheil, Tom, and Billy get together to share their in-depth reactions to Jalen Hurts missing the rest of the season and the Colts firing GM Chris Ballard. They then dive into the biggest story lines that have emerged from the first third of the season, including the Rams’ disappointing start and the Chiefs’ big resurgence with RB Kenneth Walker III. They end the pod by shining a light on Jim Nantz’s peanut punch on J.J. Watt and talking about Jonathon Cooper and Josh Jacobs being taken off the exemption list.(00:00) Intro(1:36) Jalen Hurts out indefinitely(21:59) Colts fire GM Chris Ballard(36:10) The biggest stories from the first third of the season(1:13:21) Peyton Manning GM rumors(1:16:36) Jim Nantz tries to peanut punch J.J. Watt(1:21:23) Jonathon Cooper and Josh Jacobs taken off exempt list Check out Tom Pelissero's newsletter 'The Sweep' on Substack! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines.Host: Sheil KapadiaGuests: Tom Pelissero and Billy GilProducer: Chris SuttonVideo Editor: Curtis SchultzProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I am in the host chair today. Shield Capadia will be joined by Tom Pelliserro and Billy Gill, a ton to get to big news on Jalen Hertz and his season, most likely, definitely, we'll find out, being over for the Philadelphia Eagles. Chris Ballard out in India, our first GM firing of the 2026 season.

And then, you know what, we're at the one-third mark of the season. So we're going to dig into some storylines. lines that have emerged and maybe go on the record. How do we think these are going to play out the rest of the season? A lot to get to. It's going to be a lot of fun. Let's take a break. We'll come right back with Tom and Billy.

This is the Ringer NFL show presented by Fandul. Make every NFL week more rewarding with Fandul Rewards Club. Just bet like you normally would and earn points on eligible, settled bets, win or lose. Keep collecting points, level up, and unlock bigger rewards. So keep an eye on your rewards club progress and see what you can unlock. This is your most rewarding season ever with Fandul. 21 plus select states, 18 plus DC or Wyoming. Gambling problem?

Call 1-800-800-Gampler. Call 1-888-7-8-9-77. Or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, we're back here on the Ringer NFL show with Tom Pelliserro and Bill Eagle. Tom, I'm not the most observant person, but it doesn't look like. like you have your regular background there. Where in the world is Tom Pelliserro, America's favorite game? It is the NFL fall meeting in New York. This is a generally owner-centric meeting. It's a lot of updates on everything going on around the game and the various statistics.

Like what is the quality of football right now? At times, this meeting in the past years has there's been some type of massive controversy brewing around the NFL. We don't, on a global scale really have that right now. But certainly, you know, not a ton of voting items. There's some small stuff in terms of minority partners buying into teams and things like that. But it's the only occasion now in the current NFL calendar where all the owners are in one place. There used to be a secondary meeting in December. That one went virtual a couple of years ago, which was basically because the league stopped giving the cap projections. So all the cap people were like, what do we do here? So they're finally like, ah, screw, we're not going to do that meeting

anymore. So this is the one time. It's almost at the halfway point that everyone gets together. And so if there's anything on people's minds, this is the place where they can express it. Can I ask a question about these meetings? Because I'm curious. And I don't mean this is a joke. It's an actual legitimate question. So Carly Ersie Gordon, obviously on the sideline notoriously, like, takes notes. Are there lots of note takers and the owners, like, in these meetings? Do they have the, like, leather bound portfolio where they're like keeping track of everything that's going on? Or do they just kind of like go and hang? we're not in the actual meeting billy but i would fairly bet you most people are just listening i don't think that there's frankly not a ton that you really need to get into again there've been

other times where there's been a commissioner's contract that's um on the docket or you know some type of a major whatever stadium issue or major off the field issue you just you don't really have that at this meeting so it's going to be a pretty quick one it's less than you know 24 hours in total here, which is good since, if you can't tell, this is not me trying out a new voice. I have a pretty bad man cold at the moment, so I'm sucking down lemon tea here, just trying to get through this pod. So thank you for picking up the slack, Billy. You don't sound that bad, honestly.

You sound pretty much the same. I imagine you feel pretty bad, but like amongst us friends here. Maybe I can't hear myself because I had like the ears like popping on the plane and I don't think that I'm out of it. I just need to just let all this flow through. We'll be better on the other side. Listen, he's going to power through it. NFL players playing through all kinds of stuff in week six and going forward.

This is our version. You know, sometimes the podcasters, the newsbreakers, we're not always feeling 100%. But sometimes you got to power through. Tom's going to power through because we got some big stuff to get to here. Starting with the Jalen Hertz situation, which has dominated my day, quite frankly, you know, a personal friend group chats in terms of work,

in terms of podcasts, a lot going on reading about blood clots. What does this blood clot mean? What does this mean? All those things. Tom, just I feel like we just need a reset. Where are we with this story? Where are we with Jalen Hertz, the blood clots, hard to say, and the state of the Philadelphia Eagles quarterback right now?

Well, Jalen Hertz, from what I'm told, is doing well. He is now on blood thinners for the blood clots that had moved into both of his lungs. When you're on blood thinners, that's usually three months that you're going to be on them. You can't play contact sports while you're taking those. And so effectively, I would fairly say highly unlikely that we see Jalen Hertz again this season. I think this is also kind of a microcosm of the general society, the media that we're a part of. I certainly played a role in it today. But anytime you have something unusual that happens,

most people, from what I can tell, at least on social media, immediately search for who to blame. But it's got to be the Eagles. It's got to be their fault. How could they put them on the field? You know, earlier in the week, it was Jalen Hertz. He doesn't, maybe he doesn't want to play.

Let me just take you inside this because this is a situation where from everybody that I have spoken to, all parties are really on the same page here. Yes, it trickled out oddly going back to last weekend where you got one report that he's not going on IR and then a few hours later he is going on IR before that playing in the game and then Wednesday it's announced that he's out.

And then, you know, we learned today that the blood clots have spread from what was initially, you know, in his calf into his lungs, which could be a really, you know, scary and serious deal. And so the Eagles from the start have focused more on Jalen Hertz, the person and his health, than they have the player. So let me just give you the timeline on what actually happened once they get to London. Remember, they fly over on Friday. Like most teams, the advice was, hey, once you get to London, stay up.

Stay up all day. It's the best way to beat the jet lag. And so, guys, I mean, all of us who have traveled to Europe, like, you know, you don't totally have your sea legs under. underneath you, but the best, the worst thing you can do is go and take a nap immediately because then you were going to be out of whack the rest of the time. So all the players are going to bed. They did this, you know, kind of last minute. All the players are going to bed about nine or 10 o'clock on Saturday night before the Sunday kickoff, which I think is 3.30 at London time. It's right about then that this calf issue, which stems from Jill and Hertz getting pleaded a week

prior. And then on Friday, he was on the injury report, but he was listed as a full participant. It's that Saturday night that they start to realize, like, they're, might be something more here. So he ends up going to a clinic that is, you know, not exactly close by, goes and gets, you know, an ultrasound gets these various tests. He's there until 2, 3, 4 in the morning by the time he gets back to the hotel. And they come to the conclusion that is a superficial blood clot. A superficial blood clot, and I'm not going to play doctor on any of this, but I asked doctors how you best explain it. And it's like, if you ever see like a bruise, like a deep bruise that just doesn't go away.

It's kind of sitting there. It's like that, except it's in the vein. But it's not something that would preclude you from going out, running around, getting hit, playing a football game. So Jalen Hertz finally gets back to the hotel. Everybody is, again, on the same page, in the loop. Hertz did sleep. This is where there was a miscommunication among a variety of people.

And I take seriously my responsibility in relaying accurate information. Again, there were some things that were not communicated as, you know, would have been ideal in this situation. He did get some sleep once he get back to the hotel. Now, this is like in mid-morning, all of his teammates are getting up and they're going through their day. He's sleeping then. Then they get him on the bus. They go over to the stadium and actually set aside a room. So he got like another hour of sleep actually at the stadium, which now if you like walk that back,

all those videos that came out from fans in the stands of like Jalen Hersch running onto the field, I don't know if it was after the National Anthra or right before. It's like last minute. He's just coming out there. It's because he was like going through this whole process to get himself ready. But it was not. I will reiterate this. It was not because they had told him, don't sleep.

There are things you want to do motion wise for the blood clot. But it was not because they were scared that this was going to turn into something more. It was just the logistics of the situation. So he plays in that game. He played pretty well. They lose the game in, you know, just absolute. crazy fashion in the final seconds. But he threw for over 200 yards and a touchdown,

you would not have known, I don't think, other than he didn't run a whole lot, that he was dealing with something. They get back Wednesday, he practices in full again, but he had a follow-up ultrasound scheduled, and it was there that they realized the clot is moving. That's when the announcement comes.

He's not going to play this week. He goes and gets additional scans. Saturday they get back the information from another doctor in Boston. And this is after the initial report, that was out there that he's not going on IR, which it was true at that time. They hadn't discussed IR because they didn't have all the information. They were waiting for it.

They get it back that he's got what I was told is several blood clots that have moved up and are now in his lungs. That's a very serious deal because it had actually gotten into the body. At that point, it was, okay, we're shutting him down. He's going to have to go on blood thinners. They consulted a bunch of different medical experts. But that's how the entire thing played out. I think critically here before I send it back to you guys because,

you're very close to that team. I want to know your bigger picture thoughts here. But I had a number of different people, whether it was other NFL front office people, whether it was more importantly doctors and athletic trainers who reached out to me, asked some follow-up questions about the reporting that was out there, including for myself. And every single one, these are people who do currently work in the NFL or have previously worked in the NFL. And everyone said, based on the information that the Eagles had, that we know they had about this being diagnosed as a superficial blood clot, all those people would have cleared Jalen Hertz to play in the game.

This was not the Eagles putting a football game ahead of his health. This was not like they were on an island here and how in the world could they? Again, you can Monday morning quarterback this entire thing all you want. But everyone I talked to said, if it is what it was initially diagnosed as, that is a safe thing to be able to play a football. game with. Jalen Hertz, who you know he's almost never on the injury report. He doesn't miss games. He always plays shield. You know that it has to be, for lack of a better term, a life or death situation for him to shut it down. And that's why only when we got to Wednesday, the clot is moving the additional test. And then on Saturday when it was in his lungs, only then to Jalen

hurts. And I think from a football standpoint, a competitive standpoint, begrudgingly acknowledge, all right, we're going to have to take our time here. He's going on the medication. He can't play contact sports while you're on blood thinners. And so in all likelihood, we've seen the last of Jalen Hertz for 2026. But this is not Eagles versus Jalen Hertz. It's not Eagles versus Jalen Hertz agent. Everybody through this entire process, we're working together. And you saw that even with the joint statement today that at this point, they're on the same page. It's always sensitive. It's always tricky with sensitive medical information like this, especially with, I mean, Jalen Hertz is a very private person. You know, he's been the quarterback in a big market.

for a long time, but in terms of like, you know, him kind of showing his personality. I think he tried to do more of that, but just disclosing personal details about his life, that's not really his thing. And so with the situation like this where there was so much uncertainty and some confusion. To your point, I think the reports early Saturday morning where it's like the team isn't even thinking about putting him on IR. So as a consumer, Billy, I think we've called, did I call you a man of media before? Or did I call myself a man of media?

Okay. So as a consumer, when you read a report that says the team is not considering to put the quarterback on IR, you jump to the conclusion. Well, that means they think there's a chance he plays in the next four weeks there. And then for 48 hours later, it's like, nope, he's probably going to be out for this season. So I think that was part of what led to a little bit of the confusion. But to your point, again, I've tried to read up on the blood clot stuff and talk to people in deep vein thrombosis. DBT, I think they say. say in the business, this is very serious. And superficial blood clot, not as serious, but once it develops into this, DVT, now we're talking about a very serious condition that can obviously be very dangerous. And that's why he's going to be on those blood thinners and is going to be out for a while here. So, Billy, I think, you know, just as you look at this without being like inside of it and doing the reporting that Tom's doing, it's normal to have simple questions like, well, should he have been playing in the game?

Should he have been on the flight home? everything you hear about blood clots. Are the players camp and the Eagles on the same page there? Was there anything there? I think those are natural questions to have that, you know, when the story's developing and you have a information deficit, it's hard to answer one way or the other, but you're going to have those questions with the story like this. Yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of where everybody was going today,

which is the first thought is, well, if they knew that he had it, why was he traveling? And it's kind of like I'm not a doctor. Obviously, I don't deal with the logistics, but he's going to have to come home at some point. He's not just going to live in London for three months, right? So then how do you get him safely home? If they thought that this wasn't a serious blood clot situation, they thought it was superficial and not what you just said.

You know, the DVT, the deep vein thrombosis, are now what may be a pulmonary embolism, which is another word that we all, I think, learned today when researching things. You kind of start asking the questions. Then you make it, you know, Tom, you're telling us that the Eagles and his team, were on the same page the whole time.

So that that kind of, I guess, wipes out the idea, well, was this a misdiagnosis? Were the Eagles keeping things from his team? Because you see some of that today. And then it's like, well, is there like a medical malpractice lawsuit that's incoming now because they told him that he was safe to play and it turns out he wasn't. Now things have gotten more complicated.

So it seems like a lot happened very fast. And to your reporting, they were kind of in concert the entire time in making these decisions for Jalen. that's right and so we can all think of the situations that have led to you know action between a player and a club you know tyrod taylor and the rib injection that got into his lung punctured his lung tj wott last year who claimed that the he was getting a dry needling session at the team facility and they punctured his lung and he didn't play for a while this is just not that situation and i i get it there's going to be people who are watching this or listening to this and being like oh it's damage

control. No, this throughout has been, everybody's been on the same page working through this. Jalen Hertz wanted to play in the game. The Eagles wanted to play in the game. And the doctor said it was safe for him to play in the game. There was no reason to believe that by playing in a football game, or obviously, since the doctor's cleared to travel, that it was likely even flying back was going to cause this to become what is officially not just deep vein thrombosis, but bilateral pulmonary embole, which is the blood clots that have basically migrated, floated up, and then got stuck in an artery in the lung, they've signed off on it. Again, I get that people are skeptical of these things, but I do think that even in the year 2026, it's important to know there are doctors

involved. The league was involved. You know, there's a variety of different specialists. Everyone is looking at the scans. I had one doctor today who told me, as far as I can tell, everything was done by the book. In other words, the process here, how they identified what might be a blood clot issue, well, how they responded once they found out the initial diagnosis of a superficial blood clot, and then how they acted once it was moving and to take the utmost precautions for Jalen Hertz. That's how the system is supposed to work. I'm sure the Players Association will, you know, gather all the information on it too, because why wouldn't you? You want to make sure your players are getting the best care possible. But all those things, Billy, that you said there,

could there be a lawsuit, could it be medical malpractice? There is not a whiff of any disagreement on where we stand right now. You know, we'll see what the future holds with Jailen Hertz and the Eagles just from a global perspective. But right now, you know, the focus is on Jalen Hertz getting healthy. And it's going to be, you know, likely that at least three months before he's able to get off the blood thinners and be clear to get back to doing what he loves. Well, the reports have kind of been out there and like the doctors that have published

been interviewed and stuff, and I'm wondering if you got information from different ones, have been best case scenario, three months, he takes the blood thinners, this situation gets resolved, and then hopefully next season, he's back. But until those three months, that's really when there's the reassessment and you see how severe this has gotten or if it has actually cleared up, right? So in anyone that you've talked to, has there been a concern of complication? Because this obviously football is a contact sport, which is where the blood thinners become an issue, because if he starts bleeding, then you have a big problem, right? But we've seen in the NBA, you have someone like Wembe who had blood clots and he's come back and he's played.

But then you have on the opposite end of the spectrum, someone like Chris Bosch, who it ended up ending his career. So did you get any spectrum in talking to the different doctors of where this might fall? So here's the good news as it's been explained to me. And again, I will give the qualifier. I am not a doctor, but I've spoken to people who have spoken to these doctors. I've spoken directly to other doctors who've dealt with similar issues. The good news in this is they know what caused it. It was he got spiked in the Rams game.

There are other times where a player will develop blood clots. And there's a million questions and tests you have to run and things you have to figure out because you don't know why he's having it. You know, what else is going on in his body that might be leading to this issue? You know, Christian Barmore was a classic example. I happens to be represented by the same agent, Nicole Lynn, as Jalen Hertz. you know, those are the ones that can cause a greater issue. Everything that I've been told with Jalen, because they know what happened here,

high and great confidence, no long-term issues. You know, like everybody, you know, you can say, can he beat it? Can he be back in two months? Like, I'm sure Jalen's thinking that in his head. I would doubt that. But you're talking about a longer-term type of thing with regard to the season in terms of long-term over his life where he'd been impacting him in 2027. From what I am told, there is no reason to have.

any of those concerns right now. Scary 72 hours for him personally. You know, you go from thinking you just got pleaded in a game against the Rams. I would argue he's one of the best conditioned athletes in the entire NFL. And then 72 hours later, you got this healthy issue that you're dealing with and your season's over. So yes, of course, all the best to Jalen Hertz. We'll see, you know, his recovery here over the next three months. And then what it looks like after that.

In terms of the Eagles, you know, we'll have. time to get into this, but they're going forward here with Tanner McKee. I think we've talked in the past about are they going to be sellers? Are they not going to be sellers? I think we're going to see what the next couple weeks look like here. They face the Cowboys on Monday night next week. Then they face Washington. It is not a great NFC East. And I think if they show signs of life, which they haven't shown a lot of signs of life offensively here, and they've lost four in a row, then potentially they say, all right, we can hang in this for a little bit longer and be competitive. I think if the next two weeks go the way the last four weeks have gone,

then I think Tom's going to be hitting us up with, hey, this guy might be available, this guy might be available, and they could be pretty active in the trade market. Shia, you mentioned last week in your Ringer 107 that you were taking the Eagles. We don't talk about, we only talk about that on Fridays, we don't talk about Ringer 107 on other episodes. Well, I know because of how that way, I know we're not going to talk about it. But you said that every team and every backup quarterback has that moment where the city rallies behind them and then they'll have their game. Is that game limited to the first game or is it possible that we'll still get that game at some point?

Well, you know, you will get the narrative this week of Tanner McKee didn't find out he was starting until Thursday. This was a developing story. He didn't get all the reps in practice. The coaches didn't get to put together a great game plan for him. And maybe I'm sure there is some truth to that. But now they get an extra day. they get a full week. And so, yeah, maybe we'll give that one more week.

The backup quarterback bump did not necessarily work for me in the Ringer 107 picks. I can be held accountable there. But we'll see. I don't think I'll be paid. To answer your question, I don't think I'm going to be taking the Eagles next week against the Cowboys on Monday night. But we got a lot of week left. Who knows how I'll be feeling by Friday. All right.

Let's get to the other big news around the NFL today. Chris Ballard out as Colts general manager after yesterday. after Sunday's loss to the Tennessee Titans. Tom Ballard has been around a long time. Seems generally like a well-liked person and a nice person and a good person, but it's a results business. And he is out as Colts GM. What can you tell us?

Chris Ballard is on that short list of people who, when he finds out that he's being fired, probably on some level is like, yeah, that's probably what I would have done right now too. I mean, he's there, you know, a long run. Not many guys stay for close to 10 years. You had moments for that franchise. If things don't go sideways with Andrew Luck, who knows?

I mean, they built a pretty good team. They were a playoff caliber team. Luck retires. And they just, you know, from the Jacoby Brissette trade to the Matt Ryan trade, they obviously get bringing in Daniel Jones more recently. There's, you know, Scott Tolzeen, all these different quarterbacks. They just weren't able to fully get that position. right, even though if you look at the roster, there were a lot of homegrown players,

you know, the Jonathan Taylor's and Alec Pierce's of the world, big trades for guys like DeForest Buckner, you know, there was a difference maker. They just weren't able fully to put it together. And so, you know, you got that sense. I mean, at least I did. You're two and four. You lose to one of the worst teams in the NFL and the Titans. They're winless coming in.

The crowd's chanting, fire Ballard. And Carly Eversay Gordon has not been standing on the sideline taking notes for the past couple of years for no reason. You know, she's taking in every single thing. She has probably as a high of an awareness as anybody about when the right time is to make a move in Ballard's in the last year of his contract. Now, I don't think that these Colts can't be successful the rest of the season. And maybe, you know, this is also the, all right, we do like Shane.

We'd like to see it. So what button can we push just to try to like shock everybody into reality of like, it's time to go. We're all fired. Everybody, coaches, players. everybody's gone. I'll be really interesting to see over the next several weeks

how they play. Do they make some adjustments? It seems like, you know, Daniel Jones is always a guy that you can win with and there have been times where it almost seems like

they're trying to win because of him. You know, do they mix things up? Do they run the football more? Do they get the rookie running back? You know, maybe a little bit more involved.

Alec Pierce, do you get him back at some point? Sauce is banged up now. If they can put together some wins here, you know, they're in a position where I think you ride this out You see, all right?

You know, how old do we finish? At the same time, the interim GM Ed Dodds, who has been with there, you know, him and Chris go back to like some directional school in Texas 30 years ago. You know, they've been around forever. So it's always a strange situation when you're replacing the guy who's not just your boss, but your buddy for decades. Dodds is a really highly respected personnel man who now is taking over 22 days before the trade deadline. As much as, you know, I saw people say, I'm like, oh, it's so rare for. GMs to get fired in season. It's not that rare. I mean, it happened last year. If you remember, Chris Greer got fired. And that was like days before or a week before the trade deadline.

And so they had a collective of people, you know, including Champ Kelly and Brandon Shore, along with ownership who were talking about what moves needed to be made. They made one big trade sending Jalen Phillips to Philadelphia. They traded, they turned down other trade offers. You know, Jalen Waddle. They were offered, I think it was a first round, pick and another pick by the bills for Jalen Waddle. And they decided we don't want a 2028 pick. We want to, or you know, we don't want a 2027 pick. We want a 2026 pick.

Bills weren't willing to go there. And so Waddle didn't get traded. He got traded in the off season. But these are no longer just the GM unilaterally doing it. This is now about the big picture of the organization. Yeah, great opportunity for Dodds to come in and show what he can do. But also, Carly is going to be in these conversations. Shane Steichen and the coaching staff now report directly.

to Carly. These are going to be big picture conversations. Not the first time you've had in-season changes, and especially when it comes before the trade deadline, like we all can read into it. Why fire a GM in the middle of the season when there's not much they can do? One thing you can do, make trades

and set up the team for the future if you have the right offers in place. Billy, in a previous life, I had to grade some trades when they happened. Really? In the NFL. Yeah, so if the Colts just want like an extra opinion, they're like Ballard's gone. We think we should do this. we shouldn't do this.

They could, maybe they tell Tom the projected trade. Tom can tell us on the pod, we pretend it's content and we can like vote. Yeah, because I always like the thing. If I'm in the room, do I raise my hand, yes, do that trade? Or do I raise my hand, no, shouldn't do that trade for the record. I would have been a no on the sauce gardener trade. I know hindsight's 2020. But yeah, you know, listen, I've gotten a lot of them wrong.

But, you know, every once in a while you get one right. You got to stick your chest out a little bit on that one. But I think we would be open to evaluating some possible trades if they need us, Right? So you don't want to be a GM. You just want to be a consultant, but also a free consultant on a podcast and not even like cashing a check to consult for them. Yeah, I think I'm good with, I don't want any responsibility if things go wrong. That's too much pressure because then you get one wrong like I have in the past. And then you're actually held accountable and now reporters are yelling at you. Fans are chanting. You don't see that often. Colts were, I mean, Colts fans were chanting for which I mean, it seems kind of mean, but I also understand it. They play bad. They play bad. They're frustrated.

I mean, listen, if you get results, two, nine seasons with one playoff win, five straight years without making the postseason. The truth is most GMs don't get that long of a, you know, tenure to actually try to get things right. And I know there was the Andrew Luck thing, so maybe that bought him some time. But, man, they're in a difficult situation

because they don't have that first round pick in this year's draft because of that sauce gardener trade. And they don't have a quarterback solution. Like, that's a bad play. to be when you don't have either of those things. If your season goes really south now, you're giving up that pick anyway, and you still have to figure out what you're going to do a quarterback. I was just looking at their roster. And it's like, it's not the worst roster in the NFL, but it's not a great roster. It's kind of just defines their tenure where they've been mediocre.

They've had some years where they're like, all right, this could maybe be a playoff team. They're never like one of the five worst teams in the NFL. But I think whoever comes in there, I do think it's more of a rebuild. It's not just kind of a reload. But I don't know. It could be differing opinion. Someone could look at it and go, Tyler Warren,

Jonathan Taylor, Alec Pierce, our O line isn't bad. Maybe we get a good offensive coach. You know, the division's winnable. It's not a juggernaut. So I'm very curious to see

who goes in there and is their approach, hey, let's trade some of these assets and do a, you know, bigger rebuild? Or is it just, nope, we can tweak a little bit here and there and be competitive. And again, do you let the,

he's not technically the interim, GM, but do you let Dodds and these people that are in place now make some of those trades? In other words, how much do you keep on the table for whoever takes over in 2027? Like that was the balance last year for the Dolphins, which was we don't have to do anything, but if there's something that makes sense, like in the third round pick for Jalen Phillips, who's going to be a free agent and we're not going to re-sign them. That's a pretty good deal. And for a coach team, that's not out of it because this firing happens sooner.

Like, that's why I think it will be at least a couple weeks. They'll see which ways it's going to go. maybe they'd sparks them and they play better. Maybe they lose the next two and their two and six. And now you really got to, you know, think about everything here. I mean, there's, there are a bunch of players on the roster who there would be a market for. You know, I can think of, you know, again, I haven't taught to Dodds. I don't know what they're thinking.

But if I'm another team and I'm looking at that roster, I'm going, divorce Buckner's probably available. Could we get, can we get Buckner? Is Jonathan Taylor available? I would it take to get Jonathan Taylor. He's an older running back on a third contract. That's generally not the guy that you build the whole team around, but obviously he's been a core part of it. There's a lot of different questions that they may get here.

I don't think you trade the Tyler Warrens who are young, cheap, good players. But some of those other guys who were later in their career, those are exactly the type of guys that you're going to be getting calls about. Well, you did, you mentioned we don't know what the move is here, right? Do they make the trade? Do they not? There's still two weeks to go. Carly or St. Gordon, the statement said this was a deliberate decision.

and making this move now. So I guess this is, let's see what they are for the next couple of weeks. And then if we can move pieces and we're out of it and we can, if we can get a first round pick and get our first round pick back, that'd be incredible. But if now we can kind of load up. And if not, maybe the next person that comes and takes over, you were mentioning the booze.

So I was going through like, because it's been, I was trying to remember all of the kind of, let's say, stranger decisions that have happened around the Colts in the past couple of years because there's been some head scratches, right? one of which was just Saturday was brought in with no coaching experience to be the interim head coach. And we were kind of like, oh, okay.

And then you go back and like, yeah. Yeah, he was brought in prior to that just because they kind of liked him. They wanted him to be the O line coach. And he turned them down a few years before. We didn't even mention Philip Rivers came in last year to be quarterback because, you know, they needed veteran leadership after the injury. So there's been some things. I may or may not be on a group chat, Billy, with some Eagles fans that might have mentioned Philip Rivers, you know,

as a potential quarterback option for the team. I don't think it's going to happen. I'm not putting it out there. That's just between us that that was on one of my group chats with friends. Sorry, continue. Oh, I was going to say, I hope it's leaning more towards may not have been on a group chat where that was an actual suggestion because that is not. I mean, we kind of saw it was a fun story, right?

But it went about exactly as everyone thought it would go, right? Then you had the Carson Wentz trade. That's for a third. And then there was a conditional second that ended up being a first because of all the snaps that he took that season. then the solution to that was Matt Ryan. So then you draft Anthony Richardson. You still don't know, I mean, I guess you know what Anthony Richardson is, at least for the cold.

So it's been a strange couple of years in terms of decision making. So how about this, Detroit, Daniel Jones? Well, I mean. If somebody has a quarterback need and they're a strong team, I mean, the Vikings wanted to resign him before he signed an indie. Again, I'm not trying to get ahead. The Vikings had him on the practice squad at the end of that year. they thought they were getting Daniel Jones back to be the other guy in the room with J.J. McCarthy

and then they realized that he actually wanted to go to Indianapolis to be the unquestioned guy. I don't know, he's got a fairly significant contract. A lot of the money has already been paid out for 2026, so then you're just on the hook for the guarantees next year. It's a hard contract to trade,

teams can eat money. This is how GMs look at these different things, which is anytime you have, whether it's the results on the, field, whether it's injuries, other places, whether it's these types of changes, that's when you start to go, okay, what is that team actually going to do? And you start to have beyond just the, like the guys that get shopped for a lot of the year, just like the fifth corner, you know, it's like the guys you're probably going to cut. And, you know, that's what happens to cut down

most of the time. But every now and then there's some really unique opportunity that pops up. You know, we saw with the Joey Porter Jr. trade. We saw it with J.J. McCarthy. We saw it with Marvin Harrison Jr. But now you've got whole. whole teams that people start going. Wait, so the Colts fired Ballard. What are they doing here? Like, is anybody off limits? That's the thinking. And that's what's going to lead to, you know, Dodds and the rest of the personnel staff. They're taking some really interesting calls here over the next 22 days. They actually have become a more interesting team, I think, because of this firing, because of what you said. We don't know, like Carly Orsay Gordon, is she just making the final call?

Does she have a plan? Like, we will move these guys for this compensation, these guys. These guys, are untouchable. I want to save these people until we figure out who our GM is going to be. And then just from a coaching perspective, Shane Steichen, I think, is a very interesting coach to watch the rest of the way. If they decide at the end of the season, let's make a clean break. It's just going to be a big reset with a new coach and a new GM. I think he's someone who would get hired relatively quickly to be a head coach. And if not a head coach, I mean, in terms of offensive coordinators, I got to think he would be on the top of the list for a lot of teams next season. And so, yeah, they have a lot of moving pieces,

and you just don't know who's going to be there three months from now on that Colts team or whether guys are going to get moved and they're going to be pretty active here over the next few weeks. So Ballard out, but Colts still an interesting team the rest of the way. I don't think they're going to make a push and be a playoff team, but listen, I'm wrong on all kinds of stuff. So who knows? Maybe we'll be talking about that down the road.

All right, let's take a break. We come back. Speaking of being wrong, some storylines that have emerged through the first six, weeks of the season that I personally didn't see coming. Maybe these guys saw coming. We're going to talk about those. What has staying power? How are they going to play out? We'll get into all of it when we come back. The Ringer NFL show is brought to you by Fandul. Fandul is now available everywhere. Seriously, everywhere. For the first time sports fans across the country, including California, Georgia and Texas can get in on the action because there's more

to sports than just the final score. There are the players you follow. The matchups you circle on the calendar, the stats you know inside and out, the storylines you can't stop talking about, and all those moments that make sports fun in the first place. And Fandul gives you a new way to be a part of all of it. To make your picks, play along, and turn what you know about sports

into even more ways to enjoy them. One app trusted by millions of sports fans now available everywhere. So wherever you are, download the Fandual app today. age and location restrictions apply product availability varies by market see fanduel.com for eligibility gambling problem called 1-800 gambler all right we're back here on the ringer NFL show now the NFL season is 18 weeks so back in the day we used to like to do the quarter mark the halfway mark

the three quarterman then the season you can't do that anymore it's too confusing with 18 weeks so now billy i don't know your kids are too young but we can do thirds you know the kids will learn about fractions one day. Call them. I'm like, I'm like, I mean, they're younger. I said they're younger.

I clearly said the age is there. Geez. You know, they need to be so offended. So we split the season up here and we're just making this decision today into thirds. And we are done the first third

of the NFL season. So I have come up with four storylines that if you would have told me before the season, we're doing a preview pod. Hey, this is what you're going to be talking about in bid. October. I would have said, I don't think so. We're going to get to those one by one and figure out

what's real, what's not, how are these things going to play out? Now, little caveat, we're not talking too much about the chargers. We're not talking about the chargers today. We know that's a big surprise. They haven't won a game. We'll talk more about them at some point, but I don't know that we have anything new to say. So we're starting with the other Los Angeles team for my first one here. Okay, this is a storyline, did not see coming. The Rams are not coming close to living up. to the preseason hype. They were heavy Super Bowl favorites coming into the season.

They lose to the Cardinals in week six. They were 12.5 point favorites. They're now two and four on this season, and I'm trying to figure out how seriously we're taking this. Billy, we can start with you. Are you like, everybody's settled down? They're going to be fine. Are you in panic mode?

Where are you with this Rams team that is two and four? I'm not in panic mode yet, right? But looking back as we're reaching the third mark or the one third mark of the season, I remember when we were having a podcast just before the season started where we, the question was essentially, can anyone or anything stop this team? Like they fixed the problems that they had. They traded for Miles Garrett. They talked Aaron Donald into coming out of retirement.

Now their defense is all short up. They should be perfectly fine. They traded for Devante Adams, who today we found out, oh, he's going to be out. He's on the hour. He's going to miss six to ten weeks. So it seems as though everything that could have gone wrong so far, health-wise too, for the Rams has gone wrong. But it is funny looking back just six weeks ago where we were saying this team has no weaknesses here.

And there seems to be nothing that can stop. They're going to win their division. There'll probably be one seat in the NFC. And it's basically going to be, you know, 49er Seahawks, who's going to get a wild card birth there within their division. And it hasn't played out that way at all. And now you start looking forward

and you're like, okay, well, Matthew Stafford is, he's starting to get older. If this season kind of unravels, I don't, I mean, obviously you haven't seen anything out of Ty Simpson. So it's not a situation. I don't think where you're like, okay, well, you could trade Matthew Stafford

and get something back for him, right? But he's probably starting to wonder, like, how long am I going to keep doing this for, right? And then there's, you know, we've talked about it the past couple weeks. There's always the Sean McVeigh situation where he is a target of Amazon, is he going to say, you know what,

this isn't working out, especially if Stafford decides like, hey, I'm not going to kind of hang it up here. And then are you going to talk Aaron Donald and coming back another season out of retirement and just kind of all these pieces start kind of going away to see and say, okay, I'm just going to take the money and run from an Amazoner.

Then is there a bidding war for him with ESPN if Troy Eggman loses? So they're interesting. There's a lot that can happen. I don't think we're there yet, though. Right? Like, they're still in it. They could still win the division. They could still win a wildcard spot and get into the playoffs.

And they just need to be healthy in the playoffs if they can get there. And I think they should be all right. The question is, does this kid continue? And if so, then what do you do? So it's not just Devante Adams rupturing his hamstring, but they lost Puna Ford for the season yesterday. Kobe Turner just went on IR. They finally got a kicker in Blake Groupie and he gets hurt trying to make it tackle.

it just feels like you've got this ball rolling down the hill and it's tough to stop. I mean, when we were having those discussions are like, what stops the Rams? My answer was age. When you have older stars, they're just more prone statistically to getting hurt. Miles Garrett, you know, had a thing pop up in camp, tried to play week one, couldn't do it. He hasn't started practicing yet. Now, Devante Adams gets banged up as well. With Stafford, I don't see, you know, he's been healthy.

I don't see the age. I don't think he's lost anything, but you can see him pressing. I mean, on that big sax fumble in the game against Arizona, anytime you see the quarterback, take the snap and turn his shoulders and then just stand in cement like this, that's supposed to be a, hey, it's a quick option and like, we're throwing it or just get rid of it or get out of there. He stands there for like three seconds holding the ball and gets smoked. And it's like, Matthew, you played a ton of football for 18 years. And I think you could, if you saw McVeigh on the sideline, he was mouthing something like, you can't do that.

Like you can't hold the ball with that protection trying to like wait for a one, you know, one route play to open. So there's things like that where it's like, I think Stafford's playing good football. You know, they're obviously though, they're not capitalizing in the red zone. They've just, they've had all these different bumps. And as the injuries mount, you know, the guy they missed, they don't they can't even miss Miles Garrett. He was never there.

They miss Jared Verse. Jared Verst is a really good player. Now Kobe Turner going down as well, you know, Garrett will get back. He'll be back sometime in the coming week. here. As far as McVeigh, I don't think that he's thinking about Amazon. I don't think he's thinking about anything else. If I know Sean, the competitor in him does not want to go out with a bad season. He doesn't want to be seven and ten and tuck his tail between his legs and leave. He wants to go out swinging. He wants to be in the playoffs. He wants to be fighting to the end.

I'm not saying he wants to get out. I'm just saying in his mind, it's not like, well, if this whole thing crumbles, I'll just give up. Yeah, there's a lot of people in the league of believe Stafford and McVeigh will go out at the same time. but I see two guys, you know, with Sean and Matthew who are still very much engaged. You certainly can point to some of the things, you know, not trying to advance before the kick a couple of weeks ago. Some of the McVeigh decisions, you can, you know, point some of the decisions by Stafford, but there's still a pretty good team. I tend to agree that I still think they're going to be okay.

But that series of losses yesterday, man. I mean, that's two of your key guys up front and, you know, your number one B receiver with Devante Adams. Like that's some significant stuff. And oh, by the way, go find a kicker now. The glass half full, I agree with, I think I do agree with you guys. I'm not full panic. It's over. Barry them.

The glass half full is that they've outgained opponents by 644 yards. That's the best mark in the NFL. If you like the nerd stats, they're top 10 in offensive and defensive DVOA. Like there's a lot of good football there. Their special teams have been a disaster. And then it just feels like I like the word. usually I don't like the with pressing unlike I remember I forget it was some athlete or coach being like no trying too hard usually isn't the thing but we've all watched now sports to see like it does feel like that with staffer but even with McVey like third and one you can just feel they they feel like the weight of the world's on their shoulders on a third and one or a fourth and one or a fourth and one they're calling a play action it goes nowhere they're calling a handoff to the tight end davis allen on a key short yardage spot they're calling a screen on fourth and eight where it's like you're not even letting staffer throw the ball eight yards. yards past the line of scrimmage on this play.

So the thing that concerned me about that Cardinals game is that it wasn't just like special teams or fluky turnover. It kind of felt like the Cardinals were hanging with them in that game, you know? Like the Cardinals were 0 for five in the Red Zone. There's another scenario where that's a double-digit win for the Cardinals in that game. So that makes me a little nervous. Stafford, I just think there's a difference when he's kept clean and when he's pressured. I think when he's pressured, he looked.

I think that's when you can see the age a little bit. I don't know if all the numbers back that up or not, but to your point, Tom, with the sack fumble, there are more of those plays showing up now than I feel like showed up in the past. So those things concern me. The injuries concern me. The special teams concern me. But when I take a step back,

I'm just going to bet on the infrastructure of Sean McVeigh and Matthew Stafford until it's over. So I'll be on here. If they're like two and six, I'll be on here going, well, you know what? They can still go on a run here and finish the season, eight and one, finish 10 and seven, and get a wild card spot. I feel like they've earned that. I mean, McVeigh specifically has had to figure it out in a bunch of different situations.

And he's had a losing record, but once in his entire career, he's won 10 plus games seven times. So the margin of error is very slim. There's no doubt about it. I mean, when you're losing, it's a 12. A half point favorite against the Cardinals, we can look at their upcoming schedule and say, oh, Raiders, Chargers, Washington, Arizona, they can win all those games. But they can. They can also lose to.

anybody with the way they're playing right now. So I still like them. I don't, Billy, you said they can still win the division. I don't think they can still win the division. That would surprise me. I think they can earn a wild card spot and then get hot in the playoffs, is how I would frame it. There's still two thirds of the season left, right? So it can happen.

Is it likely? No, it's not likely. And we'll get to it a little bit later. But the walls are also starting to close in on some of these teams, right? Because between the NFC North and the NFC West, there's lots of teams that I think we all thought would make the playoffs, and they can't all make the playoffs, right? So it's going to be kind of a question at some point of,

who's going to get left out here that we all thought was going to make the postseason because they got off to too slow of the start that they couldn't recuperate. I mean, I don't know. Tom's at the owner's beatings. Maybe they vote this week to let more teams get into the playoffs and then you're going to be eating those friends.

They were pretty maxed out. There are a lot of teams. What about this? There was wild card weekend. Then there was super, wildcard weekend. What if we had a super duper wildcard weekend? I think we're back to wild card. I think they dropped the super. Yeah, they realized it wasn't catching on.

I liked it. You were the one person. I would. They didn't follow your lead there. All right, next storyline I saw that first six weeks didn't see this one coming. The Cleveland freaking Browns are tied for first place in the AFC North. They are four and two. How about the AFC North? The Steelers and Ravens are also a four and two. The Bengals are three and two. So Tom, we can start with you on this one. The Cleveland Browns, four and two, is this like a, hey, nice, nice for their fans to experience some winning, but this isn't a real thing? Or is this, well, I'm going to monitor this situation.

I'm not ruling them out for a playoff spot. Well, I would say definitely not ruling them out for a playoff spot. You know, those were the types of games that, you know, we always think the Browns are going to lose and they fight away to hold on. They beat the Ravens without Lamar Jackson. They're obviously not the same team if you've got Lamar on the field. But having said that, I think there's a lot of things to buy into that this team is real. One is Todd Monkin at this point. You have to have in the conversation as the coach of the year.

The job that he has done with Deshaun Watson rebuilding his confidence and his play style and getting that offense in a place where they actually can move the football, they can score points. I think that the young stars on the team, Boston Concepcion, you know, a wide receiver. Defensively, you know, I know Mason Graham's out right now, but, you know, and Swesinger's been banged up, but like they've got legit dudes. Players like Denzel Ward, who seem like a natural fit after that weird week one game where they basically just sat back in soft zone.

And then week two, it was, all right, we're going to absolutely come at you again and play Brown's football. I think Mike Rutenberg, the D.C. has done a really good job. in terms of figuring it out, okay, what actually are we trying to be and still have that flexibility from week to week to adapt the game plan? I think there's just, there's a lot of cool stuff that's happening. We'll see whether or not it is sustainable. I would say the play of Deshaun Watson right now continues to look like a real NFL quarterback.

And I don't think any of us, you know, even taking the Browns out of it. I don't think any of us would have said here saying, a Deshaun Watson quarterback team would be in four and two. He's, you know, he's played the best football that he's played since Houston days. That definitely was not on my bingo card. It hasn't been, like, yes, you're right. I don't think any of us would think that this is where we'd be with Deshaun, right? But if you look a little bit closer, like, he hasn't been overly impressive, right?

So the wins that they've had have all been one score wins. Now, granted, he has led all four wins on game winning drives. Every single one of these wins, the ball has been in his hand, and he's had to take them down the field to win the game. And they have won them, right? You do wonder how sustainable that is in Canada. they keep doing that. He's done a great job of not turning the ball over. He has seven to two touchdown to interception ratio. So if he keeps the ball and he doesn't turn it over, they're in a good

position. If their defense keeps it in, it's fine. But in terms of his performance, three of the games he has under 165 passing yards this season. So it's kind of a question of, and it's not to disparage, because I know this is an insulting term for quarterbacks, but he's been, I think, more of a game manager this season so far, right? Where he's done enough to keep them in it. He's driven them down the field to win the game, but he hasn't made any of the mistakes to cost them the game either. Because in terms of how he's done passerating, he's only had one week where he's had over 100 on passerating,

only one game over 250 passing yards. So he hasn't been blowing teams away and really been the reason. He just hasn't cost them. And then at the end of the game, because they've been in it, he's been able to win the game for them. I mean, that's the goal of it. I mean, there's plenty of teams we talk about right now or it's like, well, how good is that quarterback actually playing?

Well, sometimes you are playing to the style of team you are. You know, whether you're the Broncos or the Vikings or you're the Browns, you got a really good defense. You don't need to say, well, let's make it look good and go throw the ball 40 times. I think that what's impressed me with Deshaun is some of the big throws, like the got to have it, the downfield passes, and his willingness and ability to actually use his legs. Like, we didn't see that.

It almost seemed like that was just, you know, gone from his game. they're not doing it a ton, but every now and then you'll see a designed run or a scramble with DeShan. For a guy who, you know, he had two separate Achilles tears. He's had all these different injuries. You know, so yeah, I'm not saying you're saying to Sean Watson is a top 10 quarterback in the NFL. But would anybody have thought we'd be debating, is he a top 20 quarterback in the NFL? I think you have to at least say that he's in that category. And guys like that, they, you know, they get paid for a guy who's obviously made a lot of money in Cleveland to not play a lot of football.

he's playing right now like a guy who you have to evaluate and say could he be a starter somewhere in 2027 as well it's been such a weird team it feels like every game you know it flashes on the screen some terrible offensive statistics in the third quarter and then it's like all right two minutes left in the fourth quarter and they have a chance to tie the game or win the game I mean that's real a lot of these games that followed the same script

they got four wins by a combined 13 points this season statistically it's definitely their defense doing more of the work. I think that's kind of just the makeup of the team right now. Even in that game yesterday, I guess the Ravens, the first two drives of the game, you're like, it's going to be a blowout. The Ravens are going up and down the field on them in the first quarter.

And the Ravens didn't score again in that game. So the Browns get the victory into Sean Watson. You need a scramble at the end and then a big throw to Jerry Judy over the middle of the field at the end. And they line up and they kick a field goal and they win the game. It's not like they've been beating up on bad teams. You know, they get the Ravens, the Bucks, the Panthers, the Steelers. Like, it's not like they're facing the worst teams in the NFL every year.

So I'm at the point, I think they're frisky, you know? I don't think it's just like, oh, the Browns are on your schedule. That's a win. You're going to blow them out. They're definitely more competitive than I thought they were going to be. I don't know how real it is. I still don't trust the offense and these one score games. They're, you know, they're winning them now.

I don't know that they're going to continue to win them. So definitely better than I was anticipating. fans should enjoy them. If you asked me, do I really think they're going to make the playoffs? I'm still a no one. Did you see Todd Monkins,

his comments after the game, his quotes? So they were talking to him about in the big win and all that. And he was saying, this is one of those nights where you don't want to fall asleep. Like you want to be up there at 10.30,

just kind of remembering the day because, you know, once you go to sleep, you have to wake up tomorrow and watch tape and start all over again. It's like, oh, Todd, you're going to break my heart here, man. Like, I know, he had a long time for this man.

I know. A long time. And it's working out for him. And it's like, man, I feel so good for you. I don't know how real it is, but I'm happy that this is going well for you. And you're so happy about this. I feel like I'm always good with falling when it's time to go to sleep.

I'm like, yeah, I would like to go to sleep. Well, no, but he's tired. I should chase something. I know I should chase something that gives me that feeling, Billy. I don't want to go to sleep. I don't know what it could be. I think this is a bigger problem with you, Sheel, not to diagnose you or anything,

but like maybe there's someone out there you could talk to about this because I feel like you might have a just general lack of feeling inside of you. Like you just don't feel things. That's been diagnosed. Yeah. Emotion is a little bit foreign to me. But you know what? We're working on it.

It's a long season. We're only one-thirds of the way. Who knows? After week 12, I might just come on here. I might be sobbing and you won't know why. I'll be tears of joy. I'm so happy because of the way this podcast and the NFL season is going. Don't count me out.

It's rare that I'm watching a coach's press conference. and I'll turn to my wife and say, that was cute. How cute. I like that. Yeah. Monkin just seems very. Tom, you probably, you've probably known the stories around Monkin. He just seems like a very authentic guy.

It's that Bruce Ariens effect. When you get your chance this late in your career, you're like, all right, I don't have to be buttoned up and polished and impress every person. I can kind of just be myself out there. It feels like that's what we see with Todd Munkin. Yeah. And I think that his reputation a little bit is like he's just kind of this like crumudgeonly older coach and old school.

Like you see a ton of personality from him. I didn't know Todd, you know, well until, you know, I wouldn't say I know him well now, but I really didn't know him until he got the job. And I've gotten a chance a few times to talk with him. And like he's just like, he's very entertaining. He's, you know, the podium stuff. I got to imagine Peter John Baptiste sometimes is just like absolutely holding

his head like, oh boy, I don't know what he's going to say today. You know, because he goes up there and he absolutely wears his emotion on the sleep. but that was exactly Bruce Ariens, which was, I'm 60 years old. Who cares, like what anyone thinks of me. I'm just going to go out and speak my mind and, you know, say whatever. And we're going to go kick everybody's ass. That's very similar to Todd's mentality, it seems. I know from day one in the building, as great of a guy as Kevin Stefansky is,

you know, Todd came in and people immediately just gravitated toward him and just a totally different type of a vibe around him. And right now it seems to be working. All right. next one here, list of storylines. This one, I feel like we kind of forget, the Chiefs might be back.

You know, we did. Not everybody thought the Chiefs were going to be back this season in the preseason. I did. Oh.

You did? Okay. All right. Listen, I did. I might have changed my pick to the Chiefs to win the AFC West.

So, you know, one thing, right out of 400. But the Chiefs might be back there. The only undefeated team in the AFC. They just quietly stomp the Chargers in that game in week six. If the playoffs started today,

they would get the one team. they would get the buy. Tom, is this just like, okay, last year was a weird year. Mahomes gets injured. They're totally back to what we're used to in previous years. Is this a different type of team that you feel better about, that you feel worse about?

Where are you the chiefs here with the chiefs here after this hot start? Well, they're a different team because in the past several years, really since the Tyree Kill trade, they didn't have like a clear cut number one receiver. You know, Rishi Rice said, had one really good year. Juju Smith-Schuster had a pretty good statistical year. But they haven't had a thousand-year-old receivers since Tyreek.

And the issue that they would run into was they didn't have anybody in the backfield that they could hang their hat on either. Like you saw a burst of Isaiah Pacheco, but he got beat up quite a bit. You know, Kareem Hunt, the second time around was not quite the same player. He'd grinded out. You knew what you're getting from them. Now you've got a difference maker in the backfield. And so Kenneth Walker, who is at like a historic clip right now in terms of, you know,

the yardage that he's putting up. He's the best player on the field every single week. And it's covering up the fact that yesterday, the chief starting receivers are Xavier Worthy and somebody's going to have to look it up. I don't even know who the second one was. It was a bunch of guys that, like, you have not really known their names

or seem to make plays in the past. But it doesn't matter much because Mahomes is very good. And when you're running the football that way, it changes how defenses have to play you. To me, the biggest key, you know, the rest of the way for the chiefs, it's not even about, you know, Mahomes continued to overcome the receivers.

It's just can Kenneth Walker stay healthy. He's never carried the ball at this clip. Obviously, down the stretch last season in Seattle, I really came into his own, but he's a guy who's dealt with a lot of interest. If he's healthy, that's a winning type of a formula. That is, you know,

Adrian Peterson running for 2,000 yards, Derek Henry having a big season. Like, he's in that type of a category right now. If you're able to do that, it's a long season, 17 games plus playoffs. they're going to be dangerous because their formula has shifted and it's to their benefit because right now the receiver group is so decimated by injuries and other issues that like there's just there's not the reliable weapons outside of Travis Kelsey who every step

is just looks like it's taking every ounce of him to get through it. He's been the most reliable receiver on the team to this point in the season, but you need Kenneth Walker the third. That's now the identity of your offense. I did make fun of the chiefs. in the in the off season just right you know i got to do a me i was like you don't just sign kenneth walker and all of a sudden your run game is fixed and you're you got an explosive run game that's i mean we got like 20 30 years of history in the NFL where it's like no it depends on the offensive line

and the blocking and the scheme i can't believe how well this kenneth walker thing is working out for them it just feels like every time he touches the ball he's picking up eight yards and there's a chance he's going to go for 50 yards i didn't think this is how it worked with running backs in the modern an NFL. I mean, in your defense, I don't think anyone thought that it was going to work out exactly like that. I mean, Tom knew that it was going to get fixed, but no one thought that the Kenneth Walker thing was going to be the thing that fixed all of it, right?

I don't think anyone thought, oh, they're going to lead the NFL in yards per game six weeks into the season because the offense is going to be, you know, back what it was in the Tyree Kill days. My stance was simply, there's no way, what were they last year, six and 12, something like that. There's no way they're going to, five and 12, whatever they were.

There's no way that's going to happen to Patrick Bowms twice. It's just not. It was everything last year. They were still alive in the playoff chase until Mahomes hurt his knee. Somehow he's back and looks like himself in week one. I was skeptical that Kenneth Walker would make this big of an impact. Andy Reid has never committed to running the football like this in his entire career. Going back to 1999 in Philadelphia, you know, this is just, it's a different, it's a different time.

Eric, the enemy being back, I think, is also had a positive impact on that offense and a defense that, you know, essentially lost or trade away its entire secondary. They're not a liability right now. I think the Chiefs are dangerous. Are they the clear best team in the AFC? I don't know about that, but this formula does work. It really has been a great coaching job for the Chiefs this year. And, you know, in August it was like, I don't know, does Andy Reed still have his fastball?

They're signing Kenneth Walker. But to Thomas point, it's like, are they really going to give him the ball and get banged for their buck there? And if you look at it, they've got a top five offense right now by EPA. They've got a top five defense. by EPA. They just get rid of like all their entire secondary. They move on from in the off season. It's like they're bringing in these young guys.

That was another thing I was skeptical of. I'm like, you can't just get rid of McDuffie and like draft someone and be like, we're going to be fine here. They've been pretty good there. Defense too, Spags just continues to be a magician. And the thing with their offense that has been impressive is that

it's a highly schemed up offense. Like I think if you deep dive the numbers, people would be surprised that Mahomes's average pass is going like, 6.6 yards. That ranks 30th in the NFL. He's throwing deep at a rate that ranks 28th. We talked about Bo Nix last week. It's not that dissimilar. So he can still make those 1% plays when he needs to and we've seen those, but they're doing a really nice job of being like, you're not going to have to do that every week. We can win some things on the chalkboard. We can win some things against the opposing defensive coordinator every week, even without the

most talented supporting cast that puts our offense in position to succeed. there are stretches there where he's kind of just playing point guard and doing that at a very high level. But it's like, well, the coaches are actually doing a great job here coming up with explosive plays without him having to chuck the ball down the field 40 yards with a pinpoint pass. So yes, I have been just very impressed with that team so far. Can I ask what is going to sound like a dumb question because the chiefs are, you know, one of two undefeated teams or, you know, five and out right now, right? Here's my thing. We have been talking about kind of what a mess the Broncos have been the entire time.

But the Broncos are only four and two. They're still within striking distance and they haven't figured it out yet. If they figured it out, the Chiefs are not going to go undefeated the entire season. Is it possible that the Broncos can catch up to them in the division

because they don't have that much of a lead on them? I think so. I think the Broncos have a better roster than the Chiefs, quite frankly, if you just looked at it, one to 53. And even though I don't think Nick's has played well this year, he played better last year.

I think. And they have a veteran offensive coach who it's like, are they, you know, if you look at teams that can they figure it out, that would be a team that I would say, yeah. I think there's a chance that they figure it out how to use their different personnel at some point this season. So yeah, I don't think it's a wrap time by any stretch with the AFC West. I mean, the Broncos are winning games right now without an offense clicking anywhere near it was last year. And they're playing great defense without a perennial defensive player of the year candidate in Pat Stratin. I mean, that, that's just, tell you enough about the overall quality of the roster. Jalen Waddle is still trying to find his place, the whole passing game. You know, the changes from building an offense through Davis Web's eyes, the whole off season to now pivoting back to the Sean Payton offense. They're 18 and 3 in the last 21 games when Bowen is the starting quarterback. I know wins are not a quarterback staff, but the point being, they know how to win games with him.

and this is the roughest bow necks we've seen since early in his rookie season. There's every reason to believe, regardless of what you may have heard on various broadcasts, they love the guy, teammates love him, the competitor, the work ethic, and they've seen the ability for bo necks to be a really good quarterback on a really good team. They fully anticipate they're going to get back there. There's no questions about that. But it's a bumpy road. And it was set up by, you know, decisions they made organization.

back in January and February to they wanted to keep Davis Webb. That entailed having him be the play caller. Everybody knew Sean might have enough of that at some point. It happened after four weeks. And now you're kind of recalibrating as opposed to trying to fix what you were doing already. It just creates a bumpy road. But it's a hell of a lot better to be going on that bumpy road and be four and two and still in the division than be the Chargers trying to figure out their offense and their own six. All right.

Last one here for you guys. this was a polarizing team in the summer. The Minnesota Vikings, is this going to work or is this not going to work? They're bringing in Kyler Murray and they are five and oh. So they didn't play this last week, but the Vikings experiment may be possibly definitely working. I think is a huge storyline from the first six weeks of the season. But that NFC North is tough.

It's got a lot of good teams. Billy, are you buying what you're seeing here with the, Vikings so far this season. Okay. So I did my own exercise with this question, which is I made a case for every team in the division to see if I thought that they could or couldn't win the division or why it is that I thought that they could come and overtake the Vikings in the division. So I'll start at the Vikings. The case for the Vikings, they weathered the storm when Kyra was out, obviously. We all know that. And he's doing enough to win his first two games back. They were one-score games versus the bucks and the dolphins.

And then last week was a 10-point win against New Orleans. So he's two and two on touchdowns to interceptions ratio. This is kind of similar in a way to Deshaun where I wonder how much is it that he's just not making the big mistake and the defense is carrying them enough. But if the defense continues to carry them and they avoid turnovers, they should be fine. Their defense, when you were talking about the chief's defense and how they've been doing. So the chiefs allow the second most points in the season. so far behind the Vikings.

The Chiefs have allowed 83, I believe, points this season. The Vikings were 64, so they're almost 20 points fewer than the Chiefs have given up in this season, which is like, it's usually not that far. There's not that big of a gap. It's usually one or two when you're separating things. It's been another level for the Viking defense. Okay, here's the case for the Packers. Packers have looked really good the past two weeks.

It took a little bit for them to get going, but the game against the Cowboys should not have been as close as it was on Sunday night football. Golden was doing everything possible to drop passes for whatever reason. I think he had 13 targets, only six receptions. He dropped two touchdowns. But he wasn't the worst. I mean, he was the worst, but he wasn't the only one dropping passes.

Jordan Love looked visibly frustrated the entire game because everything that he was throwing out there was hitting receivers in the hands and everything was bouncing off of their hands and hitting the ground for whatever reason. So I feel like the Packers are really starting to kind of click here. and if their offense can keep it up, it's going to be hard to keep up with them. Here's the case for the Bears. Very obvious case for the Bears.

Caleb Williams is back, right? And that's kind of what they needed was for him to get back. He had a career high in completion percentage yesterday, 300 passing yards, led the NFL, and the Bears surprisingly lead the NFL in rushing yards per game, which I know you're thinking,

oh, Kenneth Walker, every game he has 150 rushing yards, but the Bears are right up there. In fact, they're better than them in terms of rushing yards. And the case for the Lions is basically just, you have the best offense in the, league, right? Top five offense, top three offense. If your defense can just figure anything out, anything at all, you should be able to get back into this division. So I feel like things are looking great for the Vikings. The question is, can they weather the

storm with Kyler if he's doing what he's doing right now? Is the defense going to be good enough? Or can any of these teams kind of catch up to them if everything starts clicking for them? But it's wide open, I think. I agree that it's wide open. And I could see scenarios where all four of these teams are alive in the playoff chase as we get to weeks. 16, 17, 18. With the Vikings, I think it's still, you know, jury out on Kyler fitting into the offense. But I would say the arrow is pointing up after the first game where he gets to concussion, sits out the second game.

Then obviously the third game he comes back. It's bumpy. Fourth game, a little bit better, but kind of finds his stride late in the game, throwing the ball to T.J. Hawkinson over and over. Week five, Hawkinson gets concussion in the first two drives of the game. Justin Jefferson's not 100%. and they got no Jordan Addison. It was by far Kyleers' best game.

You know they can play defense. They need to figure out, can they continue to run the football better? Maybe there's an addition that they can make at that position. You know, can they get another blocking tight end because they lost Josh Oliver, is a big piece of that too. If they can find their identity enough offensively,

there's no reason to think this defense can't be this good all the way through. I think it's a fascinating division. It's also a classic, you know, prisoner of the moment. I mean, we've ridden the bears from the 59 point greatest offense of all time to the next week. They score like three points to Caleb's out and all Beijing and Gainham. They're all over Packers. Two weeks ago it was fire the floor.

He's terrible. Turns out easier to call an offense when you don't have the worst offensive line in the league and you're scared to drop back the quarterback. Like now they look like a legit team with the Lions. It's just, yeah, it's a matter of patching the secondary. We'll see if Branch gets back this week. that would be big for them in the back end. I still think they could use another corner. We'll see if there's a move that can be made.

But Drew Petzing and Dan Campbell have that offense role in at a really high level. I think this is an absolute slugfest division. I could see any combination or, I mean, who knows? I don't think there's room for all four in the playoffs just because I'm hard pressed to think the 49ers and the Seahawks, if not the Rams get in out of the West. But all four of these teams are certainly good enough in my mind. The strengths being so defined is. is very interesting.

You know, it's like the Vikings, we know what we're getting with their defense. Can their offense get to a level of competency? And what I like, what I love about that Vikings defense, it's like they're not, you know, they can withstand an injury here and there

because I do think it's Brian Flores is just the wizard behind it. And it's like he can find players to fit different roles, but I'm not sure about their offense. The Lions, it's like their offense is incredible. They have one of the worst defenses in the NFL. The Bears, I think their offense is going to be incredible.

their defense is overachieved, but I still don't think it's a great defense. And the Packers, if you look at what they did against the Cowboys Sunday night, that was the best their defense has looked all season. And if you feel like they get Michael Parsons back at some point this season, then they may have the avenue to be the most well-rounded team, the team that can win in different ways out of any of these teams. But, man, Vikings at 5 and 0 with that defense. And to Tom's point, Kyler Murray's only thrown 101 passes this season.

It's like, it's not going to get worse for Kyler Murray, you know, going forward. I think, Billy, what you said is true. They kind of withstood this stretch where it looked like everything felt like a chore offensively. And it might not get to a point where we're loving their offense, but it should get to a better point than we've seen to the first third of the season. So I think it's real with the Vikings, I guess, to answer my own question. I think they're going to be a playoff team. I have an idea to close another loop that we started earlier in this show.

And to kind of bring back Shield when we were making our first. predictions for the playoffs and you're making fantasy trades. And Tom says, hey, you know what? What if they go out and they fill that void? What if Jonathan Taylor ends up on this team? What if Jonathan Taylor is a Viking before the trade denlight comes and goes? Sequin Barclay, another name that could be out there. I'm just saying.

And then I have to give Tom this tree because I know he's our, and we might have, Billy, we might have more NFL people listening to the pod now that we have. Yeah. So in case Brad Holmes is listening. This trade should happen in like Reekwollen of the Eagles should be a Detroit line after the trade deadline.

I don't know what the compensation is. They need a cornerback so bad. Eagles sign him on a one year deal. I think he's played pretty well. If the next two weeks go poorly, you can tell I've already been working on some fake trades and I'm going to work on more of them in the weeks ahead.

This isn't the last. Everybody else could sign Reekwollen back in the spring. You know, the market wasn't there. That's why he ended up with a one year deal. I know, but they thought they had Terry and Arnold there was a lot of different things. Now they're in the mix. I don't think it's going to take a lot.

She's a rental half a year. Let's see. All right, Billy. Tom didn't like that one. I'm going to give him more fake trades in the weeks ahead, though. He's going to like one of all. Can't wait. Can I ask him what's Tom hearing situation here?

Because this is a report. I forgot to ask you this when we were talking about the Colts. We're going to take a break. Then we come back as a tease. All right? We'll take one more break. We'll come back. We'll let Billy do his, what's Tom hearing?

And then we'll get to a last couple nuggets of news before we say goodbye. All right. We're back on the Ringer NFL show. as promised. What's Tom Hearing? Billy, what do you got for us? Okay, so part of this is what's Tom hearing and part of this is,

am I an idiot that fell for something on the internet, which is very possible. Well, I like that as a segment, just as a little show note for future episodes. It's a dangerous territory for me as well, so tread lightly there, Billy. Okay, so this is in the Colts conversation. I forgot to bring it up earlier,

so I'm glad that we're getting back to this. We were talking about the weird kind of unconventional things that they'd done in the past, like Philip Rivers, Jeff, Saturday. I read today, and I'm wondering if you read this and if you kind of explored this at all, I believe Dan Patrick reported that the Colts had reached out to Peyton Manning to see if he wanted to be the GM of the team. And I read that and I thought, that sounds ridiculous.

Why would Peyton Manning want to do that? He has a nice kind of gig that he has going on now. He's going to be probably doing the Manningcast night on Monday Night Football. Like, why would any of this be going on? But then also I remember, but they also hired Jeff Saturday. So it's not that crazy. So it was believable. What are you hearing about this, if anything?

The thing with Peyton is he has all these other interests. He's got Omaha Productions. He lives, I think, in Denver. He's, you know, involved, obviously, with the Manning cast. And he's got commercial. Like, there's all these other things. Does he want to go and, like, work this as like an actual job and be in the office and moved it back to Indianapolis and be there all the time. I don't know. Obviously, Matt Ryan just

did it, left TV, went to, you know, back with the Falcons, but like he's, he's always lived, you know, down there. You know, it was nearby for Matt. And I think that Matt maybe is wired a little bit differently in that regard where Peyton seemed to enjoy all the other things that he's doing. I'm not saying it won't happen because he's a franchise legend. I do kind of chuckle with the fact that, you know, but now it just seems like let's immediately give every former star quarterback, like they're a fantasy team, except it's in real life. You know, you got Matt Ryan with the Falcons, you got Troy Aitman advising the Dolphins.

Let's go ahead and now let Peyton run the Colts. I mean, never say never. We've certainly seen, you know, other things happen. But regardless, they have to run a process. You know, last year by December, the Matt Ryan thing was more or less in place. I don't think it would be GM, you know, could it be, you know, a kind of lighter version of what Matt Ryan did. Sure.

I mean, if you can convince them to do it. But I think that, you know, the Tom Brady and Vegas thing is a perfect example of it's harder than people think if you don't live in the city and if you're not in the office every day. And it took them a few years to kind of smooth out those bumps. Yeah, as Tom was naming all those names, I was like, have any, none of them have been all that successful.

Now it's our elite for some of them. Matt Ryan just got there, but it's not like, oh, this is a model that has really, just worked, grab the former star quarterback, and they've come in and built the, I guess John Elway would be one of those who did build the Super Bowl contender, Super Bowl winner. Even John that worked in like, he worked in arena football. He had done some like scouting and front office stuff as opposed to just the you work here now. I'm not saying Peyton can't do it. I mean, he's one of the greatest ever, but like, how does that mesh with everything else? I mean,

Tom's, you know, modeling leather pants and also kind of running the Raiders. But the once they got the right people in place with, you know, SpyTech, who's his college buddy and Clint Kubiak. Tom can kind of, it's not job done, but I think there's a little bit of, okay, the people are there now. It's not as much of an issue that I'm not always there. Okay, now that you mentioned Tom Brady, which made me think I like Tom Brady a lot as an announcer now. And then it made me think of this story that we need to get Billy's take on a bit. If, Billy, if you were saving this for later in the week, that's fine. But did you see the Jim Nance, J.J. Watting? Did this come across your eyes? didn't prep you for this. I'm just asking, but JJ Watt is basically showing how you got to carry the

football now because everyone's doing the peanut punch and there's so many fumbles left and right and he tells Jim Nance to like, all right, go ahead, try to punch this. And Jim Nance goes for it. And like, and JJ Watts, like, I didn't think you were actually going to do that. And then Jim Nance comes back with a wrap on his wrist and people are trying to figure out. I don't know if there's been additional reporting. Maybe Tom knows the answer to this. I don't know. if his reporting took him here, but there's report like, is this real? Was this a bit? Or did Jim Nance actually injure his wrist? So I'm sorry if you were saving that for later in the week, but ever since I saw it, I'm like, we got to get Billy's take on this. I'm glad you brought this up

because I did see it and I saw this was not going to make the show today. And I was like, by Wednesday, this probably will be out of the news cycle so we won't talk about it. Yeah, he went for it. Like, he went for the peanut punch and there was JJ. And JJ is just like a big strong guy who can't like just go along with Jim and let him punch it out, right? He's like, some guys hold their wrist and he's showing like all these different techniques. And then Jim is just like, went full throttle and like, you know, 67 years old, it's hard to just be punching things full might. You know what I mean? And you don't know how inflated that ball is and you don't know how hard it's going to be.

So I don't think that it was like a gimmick. I don't think that it was like a bit where like Jim's like, okay, I did this. And then he goes to like half time because it was right before halftime. I don't think he went like into makeup. And he's like, all right, guys, now I need like, I need like a mock cast or an ice bag here to put on my wrist and see how many people find this. And like, we'll just leave this little Easter. I do wonder, will we see a brace next week on Sunday or a cast? Because then we'll know for sure either one, he did hurt himself or he really is committed to this big.

Because we've seen it in the NFL before, right? And Tom, I'm sure that like you saw this during a drafting like, what the heck is going on? where Tony Khan, son of Shad Khan, owner of wrestling injury, yeah. Went and got like slammed the night before at AEW, the wrestling league that he owns. And then he was there at the draft wearing a neck brace. And it was all just to kind of prolong this wrestling story that he was telling.

I don't think Jim Nance is going to be that committed to this bit to wear a fake cast for a while. I've never known Nance to do bits. I can't say that I track. He's above them. Yeah. He's above them. Yeah. injuries. But I would say, like, we've all seen JJ Watts' arms, right? Why you'd think,

like, I'm going to do, it's like punching a wall. Like, that ball is not going to move. You know the grip strength on that man? It was bold. Love it for Jim. He did what I would generally do, which is like, you'd go for it if you're going to do something funny on air. Go absolutely all in, even if it's to your detriment. But I have to imagine that feels similar to like punching a wooden board when you don't know karate. I'm glad they did that because I've been watching these peanut punches around the NFL and, you know, coaches get real mad at the running back, like, you know, they'll bench him. We got to teach him a lesson.

I'm like, nobody can hold on to the football. It's literally impossible. How does anyone hold on to the football when this guy's coming in, 250 pounds, full force, punching it out of your hand? I don't care what the proper grip is or whatever. It's not like a fundamental issue. It's literally impossible to hold on to. the football if someone hits it that squarely unless it's Jim Nance on JJ. It also is an interesting

decision by JJ Watt, right? Because like, you're wondering, is Jim willing to take any accountability for this injury if this is an injury? Because this is an audition year for JJ, essentially, right? Where he was thrown into the number one booth like right before the season started while they're trying to figure it out. If Jim's not one to say like, hey, my bad, that was on me. And it turns out like, yeah, JJ broke my hand. He's not going to be coming back to the number one booth next year. I wonder how this one plays out. I just imagine the producers

like in his year like, don't be a hero, Jim. If it's broken, you got to let us know. I'm not saying this, but it seems like Billy's saying, Aikman's been in the headlines a lot, getting a lot of shine. CBS, Nance Watt come through and say not so fast, my friend.

Wow. We own. I didn't say that's Billy if you need attribution. I mean, this is another confrontation. This is now two weeks in a row, if you remember, I think you reported that there was an actual fist fight in the Monday night football booth last week. And now we have another act of violence in a booth where Jim's just punching balls. Tom's not the only one who can break news. Now, we're more on the media.

Can we clip that by Billy right there? Can we just get that? Can that be a button drop? All right. Let's end with some items of news from Tom here. A couple guys getting taken off the commissioner's exempt list. What does this mean, Tom? Where are we with these two guys?

Well, I mentioned earlier, Pat Sertan being out was a big deal for the Broncos. Not having Jonathan Cooper is a huge deal, too. I mean, that's one of your top two edge rushers that you have on the team. It's one more asset. I fully anticipate that he's going to be ready to go in week seven from everything that I've been told. And then you have Josh Jacobs coming back. Bless you. And then he got Josh Jacobs coming back to the Packers.

Again, my understanding is full expectation. I know Matt LaFleur kind of danced around it today. But unless there's some conditioning issue, we don't know about, I fully anticipate he's not just playing, but starting this week, which has been a big missing piece of that offense. I mean, they've been rolling out there, frankly, with a bunch of practice squad type guys, you know, Chris Brooks and Caleb Johnson and Marshawn Lloyd.

Practice squad may be unfair, but they're not starters. There may not even number twos. And you're trying to get by because they were caught a little bit off guard with the exemplist move. So it's a big deal to get Jacobs back into the mix. None of this is to, you know, minimize what they're accused. of serious allegations, you know, involving violence against women, the NFL, reinstated them after six weeks, in part, I'm sure, because six weeks is the baseline under the personal conduct policy. If you try to go beyond that, now you're going to have an issue with the players you,

you know, well, you're basically effectively making this, even though they're still being paid, you're making this an indefinite suspension, which there's Preston saying, you can't do. And so, you know, they could lose money later. They could potentially be suspended later. You know, who knows, but the Packers and Broncos are operating as if these guys are out there. Big deal for the Broncos, I think huge deal for the Packers to get Jacobs back. At a time, I mean, you know, we talk about trade deadline moves. And of course, the Packers are, then the Micah Parsons trade, have never been a big trade team.

But imagine if a team that right now is four and two is about to get back maybe their most important player on offense. And then sometime in the coming weeks is going to get back, clearly their best player on defense. Parsons still not practicing. They got a Sunday game followed by a Thursday game. I reported a couple weeks ago in the sweep. I don't anticipate we see Micah until November.

It's just the timing isn't going to sink up. They got, I think the Patriots on November 8th, the Vikings on November 15th. If you get past that, they have a buy. So it potentially could be even later than that. But look for Micah sometime in the coming weeks to get out there. And once he does, you know, they wanted him to get back to 100%, not be overcompensating with anything else. if he comes back, it looks like Michael Parsons,

watch out because that Packers defense, what they just did to the Cowboys, they've improved drastically as they get this thing rolling with Jonathan Gannon. Last thing, if those players do get suspended eventually, remind me, it's retroactive,

so the games that they missed already would kind of service if it's the same amount. But they were on paid leave on the exemplar. So basically, let's say, I don't know this, and I really don't expect this to be, the case. But let's say the NFL comes back

as Josh Jacobs needs to be an 11 game suspension. Well, he would lose those six game checks and then serve five more is how it would net out. Again, time will tell on that. He pled no contest to two misdemeanors. The NFL felt like they should be reinstained him

at this time. Same thing with Jonathan Cooper. Terry on Arnold is facing what eight felonies. That one I anticipate is going to ride out until his case at least is resolved. But, you know, this is, there's not a clear cut procedure here. But we do have, it's the precedent of rulings going all the way back to Ray Rice about the NFL can't indefinitely suspend people. If you start to test precedent, even though these are not suspensions,

they're paid leave, that's when you get into a territory where there could be a grievance and it could get ugly. The NFL here doing what I think was always the most likely thing, which was reinstate them for week seven. If new evidence arises, if there's another issue, you can always taking back off the field again. But they're going to be back in week seven. All right. So a bit of a fluid situation, but they will be back at least for the time being here.

Josh Jacobs for the Packers and Jonathan Cooper for the Denver Broncos. All right. Thank you to Tom Pelliserra. Pelliserra powering through the cold. Sounded good. Voiced. The voice wasn't gone for the next hour. He's going to go blow his nose.

He's going to sneeze a little bit. Order some room service. I'm going to be out by 930. He's going to get some rest. Wait. Someone's going to get a trailer. 10 and that's the game. That's just how it goes.

It might see the AirPods. Who knows? All right. There you go. Thank you to Tom Pelliserra. Thank you to Billy Gill. Thanks to Christopher Sutton, Arjuna, Ramgapal, and everyone,

behind the scenes. I'm Shil Kapadia. We'll talk to you next time on the Ringer NFL show. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Or gambling problem called 1-800 gambler or 1-800 My Reset.

Call 1-888-7-8-9-7-77, or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MDGamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline-ma.m.m.org or call 800-3-2-750-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8778-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope N. In New York.

For Louisiana, call 1-877-7-7-7. 770-8867.