The Ringer NFL Show - Jalen Hurts Starting for the Eagles, the End of the Steelers' Undefeated Streak, and the Jets’ Terrible Play Call

Episode Date: December 8, 2020

Ryan Shazier and Cole Wright are joined by The Ringer’s Kaelen Jones to discuss Jalen Hurts replacing Carson Wentz as starting quarterback for the Eagles. Later, they discuss the Steelers' first loss of the season, courtesy of the Washington Football Team (11:00), Russell Wilson’s struggles (27:00), Adam Gates and the Jets’ head-scratching defensive play call (37:00), and more. Hosts: Ryan Shazier and Cole Wright Guest: Kaelen Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, what's up, guys? Cole right here with my guy Ryan Chaser and special guest, Caitlin Jones. Now, this week, we're going to take a look at the Steelers' first loss of the campaign, Russell Wilson, his recent struggles and the bad coaching that's going on league-wide. But first things first, we're going to discuss the Eagles decision to bench Carson Wentz and go with Jalen Hertz as the starter. All that and more coming up next on this Tuesday edition of the Ringer NFL show. Today's episode of The Ringer NFL show on The Ringer podcast network is brought to you by State Farm. Getting great car and home insurance from State Farm at a surprisingly great rate?

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All right, as promised, we are back. It's the Tuesday edition of the show here. I'm Cole Wright alongside Caitlin Jones and Ryan Sheaer. And Caitlin, Ryan, he's running just a little bit late. That dude, never on schedule, but always on time. But in the meantime, as we wait for Mr. Shea-Zer, we have a little bit of breaking news coming down to Ben here because I don't know if you've heard it,

but there has been news out of the city where the love is Brotherly Doug Peterson. Well, he has sent Mr. Carson Wentz to the bench, and he has named Jalen Hertz as his week 14 starter versus those New Orleans Saints. And this is a move that I predicted at the very beginning of the season. Not to take away anything from Carson Wentz, but I just think that Jalen Hertz, you look what he did during his college career. He got Alabama all the way to the national championship, was benched at halftime during adverse circumstances, and then goes to Oklahoma, gets that team in the final four. You just look at the player as a whole. and not to take anything away from Carson Wentz, but everything he's shown me so far this season has told me

that he's not where he needs to be in order to be the competent starting quarterback for the Philadelphia Eagles. His passes, they've sailed high, they sailed wide, they've hit the dirt. Jalen Hertz, we saw him insert into the game, and he's making plays, making things happen, and that's exactly what this Eagles team needs right now.

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think this says more about, you know, where Carson Went is, as opposed to, you know, how much the Eagles maybe believe in Jalen Hertz. You know, I mean, obviously they feel enough Doug Peterson and the rest of the Eagles front office they believe enough in Jalen Hertz

to invests' second round pick, much to a lot of scrutiny at the time. But, you know, Jalen Hertz was there to, you know, develop. You know, the assumption was that, you know, after handing Carson Wentz, you know, a big-time contract, four years, $128 million, last through 2024. The expectation was that Carson Wentz, you know,

continue off of the form that he showed last year where, you know, he became the first quarterback in NFL history, the door for 4,000 yards without having a single receiver go over 500 yards. I mean, that's no small feat. He was doing a lot and maximizing the most of what he had, dragged the Eagles to the playoffs. But, you know, over the course of the year, he just has not looked good, you know, at any point this year. And, you know, Cole, like, we could talk about, you know, the adverse circumstances that the Eagles have faced. They've had, you know, turnstile basically at every spot along the offense of line.

the receiving corpse has definitely been hurt throughout the year. But, you know, Wentz himself has just not looked good. You know, he's tried to do, I guess like he's tried to do too much where you could tell he's really forcing things, leads to the league with 15 interceptions, has fumbled four times. He just hasn't looked like the same player that we saw in 2017. And, you know, when Doug Peterson pulled him last week against the Packers, I mean, the Eagles showed some life. They were down 20 to 3, ended up coming within seven points. after, you know, Hurts leading a scoring drive, and then we have the return from Jalen Rager.

You know, I think that, you know, obviously the Saints are a big time opponent, but in terms of the short term, I think this is a really interesting move. And it makes sense if you want to maximize, you know, the opportunity that the Eagles have, which is compete in the NFC East, which isn't all that great. They're not too far away, even though their record isn't very good. Absolutely. And looking at what Carson Wentz has done so far this season, you know, Everyone, as you mentioned, talked about, you know, the lack of depth on their offensive line. You know, Carson Wentz doesn't have that much time to let plays materialize. However, when Jaylon Hurts came into the game, we saw him.

He was cool, calm. He saw that the attack was coming at him. You know, the rushers in his face. What did he do? Stood tall in the pocket, completed that pass down the sideline to Jalen Rager and made things happen. Carson Wentz, I mean, even though the time is of the essence and he doesn't have a whole bunch of time back there, we haven't seen him remain as calm as Jalen Hurts did. Even though it's a small sample size,

that's what you want to see out of your quarterback. When he knows he only has two and a half seconds to make a play, let me see him get a playoff in under two seconds. Let's make that window fit. And that's what we're seeing right now from Jalen Hertz. I don't know if it's going to continue, but Jalen Hertz right now, he's shown that he's ready to answer that call. Yeah, no, definitely.

And I think that's the thing. You know, when you look at Carson once, the sacks that he takes, you know, similar to a Russell Wilson, where they're very far back behind the line scrimmage. Again, small sample size against the Packers. He was sacked three times, but he only lost five total yards on those sacks. A lot of the time he was climbing up in the pocket, getting near the line of scrimmage,

not putting his offense in an adverse position, like where, let's say, instead of facing second and 11, second and 10 situation, you could be a second in 15, second and 17. Those are two completely different situations in terms of keeping your offense on schedule. And I think that the comfort level that Jalen Hertz showed, again, small sample size, but the type of pocket awareness that he displayed, which really improved over the course of his college career, I think that we saw that really translate into his short little starting stint. Or I guess like I wouldn't say starting stint, but his appearance against the Packers last week, he showed the ability to maneuver that pocket really, really well. And you mentioned it, that scrambling ability. He graded out as one of the most athletic quarterbacks that has measured out the NFL Combine. ever. And I'm not really surprised that, you know, he was able to really chip away at the Packers

defense, especially during that scoring drive where he had a 10-yard scramble and then 13-yard scramble and helped set up that 32-yard touchdown pass where he rolled out of the pocket and made it happen. So I'm really excited to see what happens this week, especially gets a Saints pass rush that, you know, is arguably the best in the league. You know, it makes sense to have your quarterback, be the better guy, or at least choose a better guy, you know, being able to avoid a rush. And I think Maybe that's where the line of thinking was, but we'll see. And you talked, Kailen, about some of those scrambles that he was able to put together 10 yards, 13 yards, just able to pick up chunks at a time.

And, you know, he sat down with Steve Mariucci, my guy, Mooch. You know, I used to work with Mooch every Sunday at NFL Network, and it was one of the pre-draft, you know, film sessions. And, you know, Jaylon Hertz is like, oh, yeah, that's why I like plays like that, because that allows me to get on the open and get freaky. And then Mooch is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what? Freaky. What does that mean? I don't know what that mean. No, Mooch always talks with his hands and whatnot.

But he said, that's what I can get loose and make some things happen. When I get freak, it means I can, uh-uh, give him a little head fake, make some cats miss. And that's exactly what we're seeing on this young man right here. And I don't know, I may be on the wrong path, but correct me if I'm wrong. I just know that when it comes to mental stability, I think that Jalen Hertz may have a little more of that in his back pocket. What we saw him faced with at Alabama, I mean, to get benched, that's one thing. But to get benched in the national championship game, that's a whole other ball of wax. And then to be able to say, you know what, I'm out of here.

a role with this left-handed quarterback into a tug of Iloa, go ahead. That's fine. I'm going to go to Oklahoma, and I'm going to get this Oklahoma Sooners team in that final four. And I think just for a guy to be able to do that, to go to a whole new head coach, a whole new conference, a whole new playbook, and to be able to pick things up seamlessly, essentially, that just shows you what this guy Jaylon Hertz is made out of. And like he told Mooch, he's ready to get freaky, man. Yeah, no, definitely. Like, the mental stability aspect was huge. When you talk about what Jaylen Hertz has been through throughout the course of his career. You know, it kind of, it's funny because it's the adverse situation for Carson Wentz,

someone who has had the similarly to J.L. Hertz, watch, you know, another guy win the Super Bowl and Nick Bull, someone that they're going to end up building a statue for outside of the Eagle stadium, you know, even over the course of the past few years, we've seen Wentz deal with some injury issues, and even last year ended up getting knocked out their playoff matchup against the Seahawks. So, I mean, for, for Wentz, I mean, as far as moving forward, I'm really curious to see how he adjusts the situation mentally. I know when he spoke with media following Sunday's loss, he kind of repeated what he said all year, which is, you know, he understands the criticism.

He hears it. He knows some of it is valid, but, you know, he's trying. I know that he's said that he wants to work on, you know, himself and figure out what he can do to put his team in a better situation to win. Unfortunately, for him, you know, it seems like that time has run out to the point for Doug Peterson. in, you know, to turn the Jalen Hertz, who, like you mentioned, he's been in situations like this before where he's had to come off the bench and kind of step in and, you know, hopefully lead, you know, the Eagles to and, you know, more prosperous results in the future, but we'll see. Say if Jalen Hertz, for whatever reason, plays well these next few games of Philadelphia Eagles,

they run the table. They make the postseason, back-to-back seasons, and it's based mainly upon the way Jalen Hertz plays. Does that mean that it's all over and done with for Carson Wenz in Philadelphia or were they trying to say, you know what, we owe this guy a lot of money. Let's try to facilitate a trade. Let's see if we can send him somewhere else, find another team that would be a perfect fit for him. And let's see how that will work out because right now Jayland Hertz, he's our guy. That's if Jaylor Hurts plays well these next few games. Yeah, that's the tricky part. I think that the only way that you could really see them moving on from Carson Wentz is if they were to somehow find a trade partner that was willing to,

you know, accommodate them somehow in terms of, you know, the big cap hit that he's due. I know that the contract has nearly $70 million in guarantees. So I don't know how you move on from a guy. Again, he's only 27 years old. So I don't think, you know, this is the end of the road. But this is definitely a major crossroads and a significant wake-up call for him to, you know, bounce back and capture whatever form that, you know, not only led him to being drafted in the first round for the Eagles to trade up for him, but also for, you know, for him to be

handed that big significant contract just last year. So we'll see. Absolutely. He was the guy that was the tastemaker when it came to all those quarterbacks in that draft glass. It was Carson Wentz, then Jared Gough. And of course, that Prescott, some of those dominoes fell. And right now, like you said, the Eagles on the hook to pay that man a whole bunch of cash. So we will see how things shake out in Philadelphia as far as their quarterback future is concerned. But like I said, Ryan Shazier, never on schedule, but always on time. He's finally arrived. And I, you know, You know what time is. We have to get to that Monday night football extravaganza with his Pittsburgh Steelers, Kailen.

Oh, we do. You know, we had a surplus of football games on Monday. And, Ryan, I don't mean to bring up the elephant in the room, man. But the Washington football team, they did a number on those Pittsburgh Steelers, the best start in the history of the Pittsburgh Steelers franchise. And, you know, those Steelers wide receivers, they went out there, and their eyes looked a little like mine. It looked like they had pink eye going.

They just couldn't see the ball into their hands. They were dropping passes like a jewel thief on the run, man. What happened? Unfortunately, I wasn't able to watch this game. I'm messing with you, man. We didn't look good at all, man. I'm not going to say that we deserve to lose it, but we didn't deserve to win it. We dropped, I think, like 15 passes or something like that.

And when you just constantly giving teams opportunities to stay in the game and this opportunity since to continue to make plays, it's NFL, you know, anybody has the opportunity to win the game, man. So I just, we didn't do enough to try to secure the win, and we didn't play like an 11-0 team. Plain and simple, 11-0, but we had the conversation before at 11-0 were the Steelers the best team in the league, or were they just the team that had the best record?

I mean, only time we'll tell because now there are zero unbeatens in the league. But, Kaelan, taking a look at Pittsburgh, it almost seems like, you know, you have to get that loss out of the way because after years and years and years, we saw Larry Zonka on social media tipping one back. No one's done it, except for that Dolphin Squad back in the day. So like we said, getting that loss out of the way, sometimes it's a good thing. Hey, man, I've not played in the NFL. Ryan can probably attest to it, but I imagine going undefeated in any type of, you know, football is difficult, especially in the NFL. You know, these guys are the elite of the elite. We've talked about that last week, you know.

But that being said, you know, for the Sears, it's good to get it out the way, you know, like all things to say. And it was funny because Mike Tomlin, you know, for as upset as he was after the Ravens win, like the week before, he looked, he sounded a little bit relieved, you know, listening to that press conference afterwards saying, okay, you know, like obviously there were, you know, the dopey mistakes, like the drop passes were, you know, they've been inexcusable all year, especially for a Stewart's office that relies, you know, so so much on Rothlisberger, you know, getting the ball out, you know. so quickly. You know, these guys are getting wide open and they got to be able to make catch them. But moving forward, I mean, it's good to get it out the way. You know, there's a, you know, you have four games left. You got the bills next week. You know, at the Bengals later on in season. Then I mean, it's good to get this loss out the way for Pittsburgh just so, you know, you're not having it over your head, you know, or even getting too big, you know, maybe in terms of ego thinking that, hey, you're an undefeated team, but you've had

some obvious flaws and really have had the eke out wins throughout the season. It's good to get out the way, clean slate moving forward. Ron, I know you said that you didn't watch the game, but we know that you watch the game. We know that you were watching there. You had your Steelers shirt on and you were ready for them to get that win. But were you, I know at the end of the game, you were a little upset that they lost, but were you like, okay, no big deal, no harm, no foul. We got this L, we're going to go on and we're going to win the next four games

and we're going to have a stout playoff run because, like we said, with Kaelin, getting that loss out of the way, sometimes it's better than it's not. Yeah, I honestly think that that was the perfect time to take a loss. And the reason I say that is because we still have about four games left. And the team that we lost to, unfortunately, I don't think they're a good team. But they're the tie at the leader of their division, so they have a possibility of making the playoffs. So we lost to a playoff contending team, you know, which isn't that, which I'm not trying to make an excuse for them. But would you agree, though, that Washington?

their light years better now than they were weeks one through six? Oh, 100%. They're way better now. But the thing is, they don't really have a number two option, you know, and they didn't have to start a runner back when we lost the game. Like, you know, that one looked really ugly. We didn't have all started running back either. But I'd rather lost that game because we lost to an NFC team,

so we still have the head-to-head with the cheese. So I think that's pretty good. It gets that one loss out of their way, so now guys don't think they have to be perfect anymore. because a lot of times when you think you have to be perfect, that's when you start to make a lot more mistakes. So I think this loss is a good timing. Unfortunately, I didn't want to lose this game.

I wanted to go and defeat it. But at the end of the day, you go with the punches, man. And I think the team will bounce back. And we actually get the same amount of time to prepare for the team we're about to play as they have for us. So I'm excited about this way. And I think it's going to be a really big game this Sunday in both.

flow. Absolutely. Now, when you look at what happened versus Washington, you said Washington, they didn't have the number two option. They didn't have their starting running back. It just seemed as if they were putting things together with athletic tape and popsicle sticks, but when it all, dust all settled, they came away with the wind. For Pittsburgh, Ryan, do you think that this is just a blip on the radar with four, you know, quote unquote, easy games coming down the backside, or is this something that we should stay focused on? Because Mike Tomlin told us versus Baltimore that this team wasn't playing up to his expectations. I think this is something that we should stay focused on because at the day,

we need this team. If this team wants to be a Super Bowl contender and show everybody that they're actually still the best team in the NFL, they have to play at that level. Obviously, you know, they still have the number one seed in the whole NFL, but they have to be able to showcase that, hey, when we have easy catches, we have to make them. When we have a third at 15, we can't let guys get this. have to start stealing the deal more and closing games out.

And, you know, every game, every game is not going to be perfect. You know, they have the number one defense in the league. And, you know, sometimes the defense, you know, they're going to need the offense to step up sometime. And, you know, yesterday they needed the offense to step up and the offense didn't. You know, so, and that's the same thing with Kansas City. Like, Kansas City, they had a bad showcase this week, but their defense stepped up at the right time at the end of the game.

You know, so sometimes you have to lean on each other a little bit. And I feel like the still as defense is definitely going to be. bounce back. And I think the offense will too. But I think Coach Toblin is going to really harple on guys need to get in there and start hitting these jugs again. And we have to find a running game. We have to find a run again. Yeah, I saw somebody tweeted out, more jugs, less TikTok for some of those Pittsburgh wide receivers and pass catchers out there. But, Kay, I'll get to you back to you in a second because, Ryan, you said that you noticed the way that Kansas City locked in, even though they didn't have their full arsenal and they were able to get a win.

Pittsburgh, they weren't able to do that. What Kansas City did, is that the mark of a championship team? No, the thing is, Kansas City has a loss this year too. So, you know, Kansas City had, I feel like Kansas City had more close, rough games than the Steelers, me personally. You know, but all their close rough games were with divisional opponents. Obviously, we did that with a team that's not in our division. But it was a weird circumstance.

But that is a championship. that is championship DNA. When, you know, it's the end of the game, they're driving on you, they have to score, you get a turnover or three it out. And that's what Kansas City did at that moment. You know, with the Steelers,

I think a lot of Marquez Sweat made a great play by batting the ball up, you know, and, you know, Boston picking it off. But I really felt like the office was going to drive it back down. But, you know, the football team, they did playoff caliber stuff. They made a defensive play to get their team the ball and they sealed a game. You know, and that's the type of stuff.

The stillers have to start doing the game because they were doing it earlier. And the last two games, they haven't really been looking like this. Yeah, whatever it takes, that's pretty much what all championship teams try to wrap themselves around. And the Steelers, after this loss to the Washington football team, I know they're going to do whatever it takes to get these next four wins. Kaelin, is that the mark of a championship team when you're down, but you're never out? You can do whatever it takes to kind of scrap a few. extra points on the scoreboard there? Oh yeah, absolutely.

But I think the biggest difference with Kansas City's close games as opposed to Pittsburgh's, you know, Kansas City, it takes the opponent's best game to push, you know, Kansas City to whatever, you know, close matchup that it is. You know, outside of, you know, maybe the Denver Broncos didn't play that greater game. I still think, you know, it takes a stand, like a near perfect performance from, you know, the Raiders. It takes a near perfect performance from the Broncos, the Panthers. There's teams that have pushed Kansas City to the brink this season.

It still hasn't been enough for the most part. But when you look at Pittsburgh, I don't know if I've seen outside of maybe the game early in the season against the Tennessee Titans in the first half. And then against Cleveland when they blew them out, I don't know if we've seen too much of a peak performance. Because, I mean, maybe against the Bengals as well. Like those are the only three instances where I'm like, yeah, the Steelers look like a top legitimate team, like arguably one of the best teams in the NFL.

Other than that, they haven't looked apart this year. Kansas City consistently throughout the year has looked apart. I think even though they haven't had their foot on the gas, it's that ability to, you know, that inevitability. You know, we've talked about Patrick Mahomes over and over again at the ringer, but, you know, it's that inevitability that they're going to be able to turn it up when they have to. I don't know Pittsburgh can turn it up when they have to. Like yesterday, they only put up three points on offense and you have guys dropping ball.

They have the capability to do it, but we haven't really seen it this year. And I think that's the biggest difference between the Chiefs and the Steelers this year. We're kind of lost in the shuffle in this Steelers loss is the way that Alex Smith went out there. And the dude absolutely bald. I mean, all you can do is tip your cap to a guy like Alex Smith because, I mean, just the wherewithal, the fortitude to even think about trying to make a comeback. And what he's shown so far this season, I mean, his leg was essentially smashed into dust. I've never even seen a halo around somebody's leg.

And for him to have that and to be able to come back and we saw that. where he got, he got cleated in the leg and in his non-injured leg. And there he was just spilling blood all over the field. And, you know, for Alex Smith to be able to lead this team, just somewhat of a glimmer of a playoff hope, I mean, that's remarkable in and of itself, Ryan. To me, Alex Smith is just showing who he always been. You know, he's been a really consistent player.

He doesn't really turn the ball over much. He's just been somebody that the team can really trust to just always put you in a good position. And he's just doing that right now, obviously. And the thing is, Alice Smith before he can run. And he can still run a little bit, but, you know, he's not trying to go out there or run like he used to. Yeah.

But it's unbelievable of me that he was able to come back. I'm just really happy to see that he's made this amazing comeback, man, because to go through something like he's gone through, and for everybody to doubt you out, it's a really hard feeling. So I'm really happy to see that he's doing so well. And unfortunately, I'm happy to see that he'd be. beat us. But I just want to, but the thing is, I would like to see, you know, the football team probably in the playoffs because I feel like Alice Smith is really leading this team in the right

direction. Absolutely. I mean, this guy is a leader in every sense of the word. Kaelin, to see him go out there and play like he's played, if you're a member of that Washington football team and say, you know, you have an ache or a pain in your neck or, you know, your knees clicking just a little bit and you're thinking about, man, you know, Maybe I don't feel a full go for practice or maybe on game time and you look over and you see Alex Smith sitting over there. I mean, you have to realize, okay, never mind, I got to suck it up. Stop to complaining because this guy right here, he's out there getting after and he's helping

this team win games. Yeah, absolutely. How about just being a normal human being? You know, I mean, any other person, you know, if you got blood gushing out of your leg, you're not going to keep playing this story. Yeah, that's, you know, a whole week. I'm sitting out of work for, you know, blood gushing out of my ankle. You know, it's wild because, you know, Alex,

Smith, like Ryan mentioned, you know, Alex Smith throughout the course of his career, for him to come back, you know, going back to San Francisco, you know, for him to overcome that situation, to go to Kansas City, end up being, you know, benched again and then moving on from, you know, the patch from home situation.

And now, to, you know, not usurp DeWain Hassans, but, you know, to take advantage of this opportunity so late in this career. I mean, this guy has battled back over and over and over again. And I think that speaks to, like Ryan said, the mentality that this dude has, you know, you have to give respect where it's due.

And for him to be able to take down this undefeated team, I don't know how much longer, you know, Alex Smith has for the rest of his career. I don't know if Washington can, you know, make the playoffs, but they're in position to because of the way that he's playing. You know, he's over 300 yards twice this year, nearly touched against the best defense in the league yesterday, led an amazing comeback.

You know, Alex Fed's story has been awesome to see and, you know, definitely submitted himself as a comeback player of the year, no doubt. Yeah, absolutely. Comeback player of the century. And, you know, to see what he's been able to do to get this team in this position and just to have them thinking about the playoffs. I mean, that's unbelievable, like we said. But when you look at, like Ryan, you said that he can still run, but he doesn't run like he used to, just the fact that he's out there getting after it and making plays, have you had

any conversations with Alex Smith? You know, when you guys, both of you were going through rehab and, you know, that there's obviously different ends of the spectrum, completely different injury. But I know when people are making comebacks and you've dealt with similar. sets of circumstances. There's things that can be shared between guys. Fortunately, I was able to talk to Addis Smith, but I just was looking at him from afar, man. I was just thinking how remarkable everything he was doing just to see how he had a documentary just described all the surgeries he went through and all the, all the difficult times and just to see how happy he was when he was able to bounce back. And just to, you know,

it was crazy to me that he asked you went to the military, the veteran, his hospital because his injury was somewhat of like a military type injury, which is crazy to me, you know, and we're playing football. So just to see all the things he's overcome and the people that he relates to, I think, yeah, he definitely submitted himself a comeback player the year. Me and Michelle said, do you think him or Ben? And I was like, yeah, Ben had a, you know, he's having a great comeback. But I'm like, man, Alex Smith, man, where he came from and he's going through, man.

man, I think he's definitely going with it. Kaelin, before we move things along, is it even better to see how Alex Smith and everything's unfolding in the nation's capital just because of the way things went down in San Francisco and the way things went down in Kansas City and then for him to suffer that injury and to maybe see somewhat of a silver lining

in this dark cloud of his career, it's pretty positive. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, like I said, for him to go through all of that and again, you know, to persevere and to really get to this point and have Washington, again, they're in contention with four games left. They're on a winning streak because of what he's able to do offensively with that unit. And he kind of fits, you know, what they want to do offensively, too.

And, you know, it's kind of a shame that he's so late in his career because it'd be awesome to see really him direct as offense in this prime. Because they don't have a lot of weapons. I mean, yesterday he maximized Camp Sims, who I hadn't heard of. Yeah, J.D. McKissick, Arkansas State represent. And don't get me wrong. Antonio Gibson's a great running back. He looks like the part. and then Terry McClower, and great receiver looks like the part too.

But for him to get them. And then even Logan Thomas. I knew that was coming. You heard that Ohio State reference coming in there with Ryan. Ohio State. Ohio State represent. But, you know, like for Alex Smith, you know, maximize, you know, this situation. It's definitely awesome to see.

Ryan hitting him with that. Oh, H. I know. There you go. No delay right there. I like that. Sometimes when you throw it out there, some people are a little tardy, but never my man, Ryan Shays here.

Now, when you talk about Alex Smith, mentally tough and confident. those are two words that definitely jump off the page. And when you think mental toughness and confidence, well, those are two attributes that quarterbacks need to have. And one guy that we know usually always has that, it's Russell Wilson. But as of late, Kailin, Russell Wilson hasn't looked like Russell Wilson. And maybe that's because the Seattle Seahawks offense hasn't looked like

the Seattle Seahawks offense lately. Yeah, no, it's been weird for Russell Wilson because, you know, over the past, what, five games, he's had nine interceptions against seven touchdowns. which is, you know, not great. And, you know, before, you know, the big thing with Seattle was that they relied on Russell Wilson to have these perfect, magnificent performances. And that was an okay formula throughout the beginning of year when their defense was playing well.

Not that their defense is, you know, at least competent. All they did was an average defense to complement what Russell Wilson was doing. Now, the defense is competent. You know, Russell Wilson's play has really slipped, which is strange because he doesn't have to be perfect. And, you know, yesterday or excuse me, on Sunday against the judge. Giants, it was obvious. Again, he was trying, kind of doing a little bit too much, was getting himself into trouble. And again, I think at the same time, we need to give credit words due to

the Giants defense. They definitely have improved over the course of season. We've seen them play competitive against some of the best offices in the league, including Tampa Bay. But that being said, you know, Russell Wilson, you know, for all of the shortcomings, I guess, of Seattle's offense, they don't have a great running game that he can rely on. And I know that D.K. Metcalf is a stud, and so is Tyler Lockett, but if you take those two away from him, or at least limit them in some capacity, the offense is extremely stagnant,

especially Russell Wilson is not. So until he gets back in the sink, Seattle, you know, whether or not they're going to be considered like top contenders out of the NFC, it's going to be questioned because, you know, and he just has not played at a consistent rate over the past few weeks.

And I really don't know if there's like a single fix for what's going on here. He just needs to start playing better, playing in two. Nine touchdowns, seven picks, not very Russell Wilson-esque. Ryan, when you take a look at Russell Wilson and some of the struggles that he's had over the last few games, is it physical? Is it mental? What do you think has led to this slump right now? Yeah, I know, I know Kailen was saying that the defense is playing a little bit better, but I still think their defense is pretty garbage. So tell us how you really feel about that Seattle defense, man. No, I still think they're pretty garbage.

But so I really, I really feel like it's starting to, you know, way a toll on Russell, man. Like, because he, their offense has to play well for them to win. Like, they have to really play well. And I feel it's starting to start to be a lot of pressure, a lot of, and it started to really affect him his confidence and his mental ability to play football. Because I don't think it's nothing wrong with his arm.

I don't think it's nothing wrong with his legs. I think he's more about, like, all right, man, we got to get 30 points up or 25. or something close to that just to even get a chance to win this game. And when you're just thinking that going into games and not trusting your guys that's much, I think it's always going to be a little bit tougher. And that's what it seems like I see from Russell, man.

It just seems like he's going through a slump because he has so much mental pressure on, man, I got to make sure that we get these points up because if we don't, we're going to lose this game. Because they had 25-point games and lost them. You know, it's like, man, we're putting up all these points and we're still losing games. We're like, what do we have to do?

And I think that's more of what's coming up from Russell. It's just, he's trying to carry so much of a load that he's doing too much. And like you were saying, you see him doing way too much, and he's starting to get himself in trouble. And I think that's what was happening. He's just thinking like, man, I got to make something happen because if I don't get six, I know my defense might give up six. Yeah, it's almost like a case of, you know, Russell Wilson,

the former baseball player, when he's in this slump, it's like him going to the plate and thinking to himself, all right, whatever you do, just don't strike out, as opposed to walking up to the plate and saying, hey, you know what, I'm going to put this ball on play and whatever happens. That's what happens because right now, what we're seeing from Russell Wilson, like we said, Kaelan, it's not the usual Russell Wilson. It's like he's pressing. It's like he's trying to fit that triangular peg into that square hole, man.

Yeah, no. And I'm telling you, I know, right, look it, I know the Seahogs still have a great defense. But look, they've held each of their pass for opponents to 23 points or less. So really, you don't need Russell Wilson to put up, you know, 30 points game. Just even get to that 25 margin. And it's 23 points, a good defense. I mean, it's not. But look it.

Look it. Hold on, but look it. Look, look, look. They've given up 23 against the Rams, 21 against the Cardinals, 17 against Eagles, which against Eagles. And then 17 against John. It's the Giants. And so, I mean, that being said, you're not asking for an other worldly performance.

You know, Seattle didn't have any points at how. halftime from their offense against the Giants last week. They literally were leading five nothing. Their defense accounted for that safety, and then they got three points on their opening drop. Outside of, you know, the stagnant, or I guess outside of their scoring drives in the second half, it looked really stagnant. You know, for Russell Wilson, it just has not been consistent play.

And I think that, you know, it has to do with pressing. And I'm not sure why he's pressing when, you know, you've had that defense. Again, not great, but they've played well enough to give the offense a chance. to win these games against lesser opponents. No, you're right. You're right. You're right. And I think another thing is just guys are starting to figure everybody out.

And the thing is, when Russ gets in trouble or Russ, like, he likes to take shots, his go-to is D-D-K and Tyler and guys are like, man, we're not going to let these two people beat us. So beat us with more or your fourth or fifth receiver. I don't think he trusts those guys enough either. So once you start a lot, when you lock down D-K, their offense is completely different. it's like completely different. And you start to see that more and more. Yeah, you know what?

It's funny because NFL fans are so fickle. I mean, if you have a good team and they're not playing well, you should just, you go on Twitter, and I feel like it's just a factory of sadness sometimes the way people sit there and it's just a platform for hate more times than not. But I saw one Seattle Seahawks fans, supporter, booster. I don't know what category you want to put him in, but he was sitting there saying after a five and all start,

can you believe this? And now we're not even going to make the playoffs. And I mean, it just seemed as if all hope was out the window. Kalan, I mean, this team still is a playoff team if they do what needs to be done. Because any time you have Russell Wilson on the field, pressing or not, you have a pretty good chance to win a football game. I'm not a lot. The moment he trademarked and let Russ Cook, he's been playing back.

Did he trademark that? Yep. I wonder if he was behind that or somebody else. He wasn't. It was analytics Twitter, you know, someone like, People like me who try to crunch numbers and explain football. Yeah, he trademarked me. Then once he trademarked it, he's been having a downhill slum.

Yikes. Okay. So what do you think, Kailen? Is this still a playoff team? And even if they are in the postseason, can they win a game? I think that's the more important question of the two. Oh, yeah, no, absolutely without question. You know, they have Russell Wilson again.

Like, he might be in a slump right now. But I think the bigger deals at their defense, again, can at least show up to the party. I don't know if they're going to be, you know, the jewel, but, you know, they'll show up. And I think, you know, once Russell Wilson, you know, gets back into gear, they have the Jets next week. You know, they have Washington after that. And then they have two divisional games against Rams and the Cardinals. So I think Russell Wilson is going to capture some of that form, at least be, you know, you know, salvageable at some point. There's something there, you know, moving forward.

We've seen Russell Wilson show up in the postseason. I think that they'll be fine moving forward. And, you know, I think you're just going through a slope right now. It happens. Add a little excitement to your sports watching experience by betting on all the action on Fanduil Sportsbook this football season. There's a reason why Fanduels America's number one sports book. Their app, it's simple to use. They've got great odds on all different betting markets, unique, fun bet types like same game parlay and exclusive always-on promotions to let you get more action out of every game day.

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I mean, there's a blazing inferno underneath the seat of Adam Gase right now. But the funny thing is that he just seems to keep walking around. His car keeps getting him into the building. But the way that Greg Williams was fired by Adam Gase, I mean, he brought the house. We know that. And that led to the touchdown, which ultimately led into the Jets losing yet another football game. But, I mean, there was more that went into that loss than just that one play. Greg Williams, competent defensive coordinator.

We've seen it years past time and time again. He gets after it. His defenses more times than not. They're productive. Adam Gase. That's exactly what we get with Adam Gase. His offenses, not very productive. His team's not very good.

And for Adam Gase to go in there and fire Greg Williams, if you're Greg Williams, you have to be looking at yourself like, man, what just happened? Ryan, I mean, this doesn't sit well with me. I mean, I know that there's some strategy going on here. They want to keep Adam Gase at the helm so they continue to lose. However, if you're Greg Williams, you have to be pretty upset with what's going on right now. This right here is a public service announcement to Woody Johnson. Woody Johnson, this is the owner of the Jets.

if you need a coach, I live right here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, because I don't even want to coach, but I can coach better than goddamn Adam Gates. I'll tell you that. That's all I'm saying. If you need a coach, call me. Call me.

You can pay me a little bit less than whatever the hell you pay a hell. I know we're going to win some goddamn damn. I get some good coaches in there. Hey, because that's some bullshit that's going on, because that's damn show, not Grant Williams. Grant Williams, that was a shitty-ass play. That was 100% shitty play. If I ain't gonna lie, like, when I played, I had the ability to change plays,

audible plays, and things like that, if Grant Williams said, hey, it's nine seconds left, run a 50-yard line, all out bliss. I was saying, fuck, no, we're not calling this in the huddle. And I'm like, we're calling something else. I would have definitely not called that play. Like, that's the dumbest shit I ever seen in my life. I would never call that play. Well, Ryan, what were you seeing from Derek Carr, you know, his inability to hold on to the football?

I mean, he spits the seat out a lot. I mean, it could have been the worst call ever or it could have been the best call ever. Because if he brings the house and someone gets their pause on Derek Carr and he lets loose to the ball or he spits it out, I mean, that's the ball game right there. And when you're bringing the house,

don't you tell all the guys in the secondary, whatever you do, whatever you do, don't get beat deep. Don't let anyone get behind you. And that's exactly what happens. Cool. I am a very, very, very high-risk guy. Like, I like to gamble.

I'm a very high-risk guy. I'm not that fucking out. That's stupid shit. Like, that's stupid. Like, you can blitz so many different ways than do what they just did. Like, that's stupid. Like, every day, you, you obviously, you want to win a game. You're trying to seal the deal.

But you can blitz a different way and still have your corner-brists have help. So you're going to have an undrafted guy who has a four-six man-to-man versus the fastest person in the league technically. Like, this is stupid. Like, I don't understand. Like, to me, obviously, he deserves to get fired. I'm not going to say Graham Williams deserves fire because he actually is a good defensive coordinator and he doesn't have any pieces over there, honestly.

Adam Gates, he should get fired from what he said in the press conference. Oh, I'm sorry, I was distracted. Distracted for what? It's the nine seconds left in the goddamn game. Terrible. You can't be distracting. You can't be distracted. Like, this is bullshit.

It's week after week with that cat. Like, I don't mean to pile on Adam Gates, but it just seems. easy and it's kind of fun. I mean, when you see the guy. My phone line is open, man. I'll try to tell you my phone line is open. But like, the thing is, it's like,

obviously, I don't know what the coaches is like over there, but like when I was at the Stunters, me and Coach Tommy had a great relationship, but he also knew that I would always pit our defense in the right situation. So when they gave me a play call, if I felt like that was not a good call

versus the look I've seen, I can make an audible. Like, if I was a player and I heard that call come in, I'd have been like, fuck, I'm not, I'm not running that. I'm like, I can't, I'm not running that. Like, I'm not putting my guys in position to fail. And that is putting your guys in position to fail. When you hear that call come in, you're like, oh, like,

like the guys are the field like, man, why are we running this? Like, I would have been like, we're not, like, you're right. We're not running this. We're going to, we'll go completely into something different and something super safe before I, before I pick my guy. in a position to fail like that. Like, that's, I just think it is at the day, the head coach here is

every call that goes on the field. I don't give a damn, if you're, looking away, right, if you're looking away, you know it's nine seconds left. I can be talking to Sam Dardo on the bench, even though he didn't do a goddamn thing the whole game and just like, hey, Sam, man, we need to work on this, I-da-da-da-da.

All-out bliss, yo, hold up, time out. Whoa, what the fuck are we doing? Like, why are we calling this right now? Like, I don't need to be paying attention to hear this damn call. Like, that's terrible. Like, I don't, I'm sorry. I just love football so much.

And it's just, just to see that type of, Greg Williams, like, I'm playing madden right now. I know I'm getting fired. Gates getting fired. Look it. Let's just call some shit and let's see how I go. That's exactly what happened right now. Yeah. And, Kailen, a lot of people said that it may have been Greg Williams trying to sabotage Adam

Gase, but that plan kind of backfired on him. You know, that's- They both got sabotaged. Yeah. This is going to be out of there. If Gates is not getting fired, this was all part of the plan. I promise you. What did you all say?

I know you don't talk to the media a lot and you're the owner, but this is part of the plan. I'm guessing because Joe Douglas and Adam Gates, the men, they're making a lot of money to win no football games. And the NFL is all about winning. Yeah. Kaelin, what do you say, man? Is this just showing once again week after week why Adam Gays?

should not have a job in the national football league. Because if he loses his job, you know, ultimately as the head coach, what are you going to do, say, oh, well, he'll go back to be an offensive coordinator. Because he's an offensive mastermind, an offensive genius, right? Wrong. Wrong. Well, I mean, to answer your first question, because you brought up how this could be sabotaged. You know, Twitter definitely, you know, there's a lot of film junkies online.

They plant seeds. They plant seeds that sometimes don't need to be planted, you know? Sure, sure. But my boy, Charles McDonald, over at Ford of Win at U. USA Today, like he pointed it out. Greg Williams loves calling cover zero blitzes. That is within his personnel. That's who

he is to the T. So it wasn't that surprising that he called the play. It's still a bad play call. It's a horrendously dumb play call. But the Jets are third in blitz rate, you know, in the NFL. They are super aggressive. Greg Williams is super aggressive. So that, you know, it wasn't sabotage.

There's a lot of other ways to blitz. There's a lot of other ways to blitz. There's a lot of other ways to blitz. It was a I don't read the play call. That was stupid. But it's in, you know, in who Greg Williams is. But as far as, you know, Adam Gates, the job moving forward.

You know, I don't know where he'll end up. I really don't see an NFL team giving him another shot as a head coach, not within the next, like, two, three years. At the very least, this is a guy who's going to go own 16. Like, the Jets are going to go on 16. They found, they keep finding ways. I genuinely thought, you know, looking at the Raiders, after the Raiders lost to the Falcons last week,

I thought, okay. And the Raiders were bad against the Jets the year before. I believe they lost them last year. I thought, okay, yeah, that's a really good shot. The Jets may be, you know, it's not a high chance because of the Jets, but if there was going to be a team remaining on their schedule that I can see them beating, it's the Raiders. And they had them, what they called a eight-man cover zero blitz,

50 yards away from the end zone against a quarterback again. And Derek Carr, who was, you know, historically struggled against pressure and against the blitz. So I get it. but it was dumb. Yeah, you know, it's getting blamed for one play at the end of the game. I mean, it just, it's, there's so many plays that go into wins and that go into losses. And, you know, I don't think it's necessarily fair for Greg Williams to get the boot like that. I mean, I think it's a group effort.

I mean, I think the whole staff needs to get washed out of those offices up there in East Rutherford, but that's here nor there. I'm not Woody Johnson, but Woody Johnson, you do have Ryan Shazier's phone number if that's a call that you want to make right now. I don't know how tough that would be for Ryan to put on that New York Jets Kelly Green and face up against those Pittsburgh Steelers. But that's hits here and over there. But, you know, one thing that jumped out to me was I think that that big time defeat courtesy of the New England Patriots by the Los Angeles Chargers, I think that that right there could have been the nail in Anthony Lynn's coffin. I mean, Kail, we talked about it last week.

We talked about coaches on the hot seat. And it didn't seem last week like Anthony Lynn's seat was that hot. but right now it's definitely heating up. When you see all the potential with Justin Herbert, I think they're just going to give him a fresh start, new head coach, and let's get after it. Look, you know, that last week's lost against, you know, the Patriots, it's inexcusable, 40-45.

I think that, you know, and with Cam Newton only during for under 70 yards, like that doesn't make any, any sense. For them to have so many issues, you know, with their special teams coaches, as far as, you know, clock management, there's just been a lot of little things. with the Chargers, you know, and that's been kind of thing over the past two years.

But, and I know people don't want to hear this, but I say that the Chargers should, you know, we should kind of slow, you know, your role as far as, you know, being quick to, you know, firing Anthony Lynn. This has been a completely altered year. And I get it. Again, we're on week 13. Like, you should have your team. You should have everything, you know, sorted out at this point.

But the Charger at 3 and 9 for a reason, their team has been completely depleted by injury. They have a rookie quarterback who's looked great, but again, he's a rookie quarterback. I wasn't surprised that, you know, Bill Belichick put the clamps on their offense. That wasn't surprising at all. But, I mean, for Anthony Lent to be gone so quickly, the guy went 9 and 7 in his first year as a charge of coach. They went 12 and 4 with them. They went 5 and 11 because, again, if you want to say poorly mismanaged games or bad decisions by, you know, players at the wrong time led to them going 5 and 11 a year before. but they were expected to compete in the

F.C. West, I think that they can still with Anthony Lin moving forward if he gets the time. And I think, again, I'm fleeting on the side of patience with them. I know everyone is quick, you know, jettison him out, but I don't know who you bring in that turns everything around immediately. Maybe, you know, you get everything sorted out

as far as logistics and getting, you know, your players in line. And again, being able to count how many players are on the field at the time. But I think everyone is kind of rushing the fire Anthony Lynn when, I mean, this guy, it's only been four seasons. There's been two seasons of success, two seasons of failure. And I think that you're really starting from the bottom up with the offense. I think you should give him at least one more year before they get him out of it.

Yeah, I'm not one of those people who is encouraging Anthony Lynn to be, you know, ushered out the door. I mean, I think Anthony Lynn's a great guy. He's a solid head coach. I just think when you look at some of the track records, when some of the short leashes that other coaches have been on, Maybe they'll get, you say you don't know who they'll bring in. Maybe they'll get rid of Anthony Lynn and bring in a college coach.

You coached in the college ranks for six seasons and only had two winning seasons out of six. Who knows? It's not like we haven't seen that before. Have we, Ryan? Maybe in Arizona. Sorry, Cliff Kingsbury, but, uh, two winning seasons out of six. And so, yeah. To me, I feel franchises that actually kind of, you know, stick with one, like one guy for a while just to see how you develop, see how things turn out.

I think those are the franchises that end up doing a little bit better than everybody else. And I've definitely been on the Anthony Lynn like, hey, let's keep them in the train bandwagon. But like, you can't lose 45 to zero to a team that is not as talented that is yours and constantly have bad special teams play. Now, that's like special teams is something that people really care about in the NFL. And you can tell when some teams really care about it and some teams don't. And the charges, they're constantly having special teams woes and just constantly getting beat in the special teams.

And they seem like one of the teams that don't put a lot of emphasis on it. And, you know, at the Steelers, and even when I was at a Ohio State, you know, they put a lot of emphasis on special teams. We had days when we practiced nothing but special teams. And not nothing but special teams, we practice office and defense. But it was like Taylor for Special Team. That day was more about special teams than it was about office. You know, some teams have starters on special teams and some teams that don't.

But the teams that don't have starters, and they really emphasize on special teams, those guys that play special teams, they're considered starters to them, to the team, because they understand how important those roles are. And sometimes you can see that it doesn't mean as much to other teams. And then their teams are always in the back end of special teams plays and always have bad things happening to them in the special teams. And it seems like Charters is one of the teams that don't focus on special teams a lot. And it's really by and Anthony Land in the butt.

Like one team that's really good, special teams is the Patriots. They're historically great in special teams. You know, and the Ravis, historically great in special teams. And, you know, when you don't have enough players on the field, that's just bad communications on everybody part. On the coaching part, on the players part. And, you know, a lot of times Coach Tomlin and our specialty coach said,

it's either you coach something to happen or you allow it to happen. And if you constantly not having enough players on the field, constantly getting beating this situation. That means you're either coaching it or you're allowing it to happen. Like, it might happen in practice and you're like, I will figure it out. And then it happens in the game.

And I really want to see Anthony Land's stay. But man, like, every loss they're taking, man, I'm leaning more and more to, hey, man, we might need to get him out of the door because it just doesn't seem that he has a handle on his team. Like, it's constantly, his team's constantly making

idiotic mistakes and just... Bonehead place. Yeah, bonehead place. and mismanage. And, like, that shows you just the culture that they have over there and the type of coach he is. You know, so I think he's a good coach. We just got to see, obviously, this is a crazy year,

but it's a crazy year for everybody. So we just got to see how it goes. But right now, at first I was leaning more for keeping them, but losing 45 to zero, really that's making me lean the opposite way. Yeah, I mean, you look at what has been going out with this team, And like Ryan said, there are squads who put a lot of attention on special teams like the Patriots. There's teams that don't do as much when it comes to the third facet of the game like the Chargers. And, you know, you see the difference.

I mean, maybe not this season, but maybe down the backstretch we're seeing New England come on a little stronger. But I think that goes hand in hand. Teams that pay attention to special teams, they tend to win more than the teams that don't, Kail. No, I definitely agree with that. And I think when you look at, you know, everything else that's going on with the Chargers, though. I mean, as far as the little mistakes the Anthony Lynn has been making as far as like coaching,

you know, the clock management, you know, play situation like the wherewithal or at least the comprehension, you know, of where the team is at on the field and you know, what can happen at a certain time. It just hasn't been there this year. But look it, man, I don't

like making excuses for people, but look, if we're going to get someone who went 12 and 4 all two seasons ago and has lost, let's see, Chris Harris, this year who was their big free agency signing. But Casey Hayward's been out for all year. Desmond King, who they traded away, wasn't playing that well before. I mean, they've lost a bunch of people.

Even Melvin Ingram didn't even play last game. So, I mean, the defensive side of the ball has not played well. Their offense has been decent. The running game has not been there. They've literally been rotating people in at running back turnstile. So I don't know. I think I would plead on the side of patience, especially when you've seen what they've been able to tap out of Justin Herbert.

I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm with you. It's just, to me, it's not even about him, just the bad coaching. It's just about the constant mistakes that players make over and over and over again that seems like it's not coach. You know, like, sometimes you see these things, like, you don't see these same type of plays with Patriots players. You don't see these same type of plays with, you know, steeler players or chief players. You know, it's just, you're like, man, like, this game is getting managed terribly. are like, man, that was a bonehead play or why they don't have enough guys on the field. It's just like, why is this always happening?

You know, and- Well, I'd like to give you three bad coaches for the price of two, but our time has come to a close. So next week, we'll go in with Matt Nagy and the Chicago Bears, I'm sure, because something tells me they're going to have an equally as disastrous performance this upcoming week as they did versus the Detroit Lions. But who knows? Maybe they'll be able to buckle things down and get it together and get their tails in gear, and maybe they'll be able to friggin get things in the right direction.

Like he said last week during his press conference that was supposed to get the guys fired up, and it got him so fired up that they went out there and they lost to the lines. So that's going to put a wrap on this Tuesday edition of The Ringer NFL show with Ryan Shazier and Kailen Jones and myself. And as always, we're part of the Ringer podcast network. And you can follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And also be sure to follow us at the Ringer NFL on Twitter. Next Tuesday, we'll be back. But coming up on Wednesday on the Ringer NFL show,

it's Warren Sharp and Chris Vernon. Week 13 thoughts, analytics, embedding insights. They're going to give you all the knowledge to put a few greenbacks in your pocket. For Kailen and Ryan, I'm Cole. We'll see you next Tuesday.