The Ringer NFL Show - Jay Glazer, Cris Collinsworth, and the Best Coaches of 2020 | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: December 10, 2020

Fox Sports’s Jay Glazer joins Kevin to discuss the Philadelphia Eagles quarterback situation, Tom Brady and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, the coaching carousel, and more (1:25). Then, The Ringer’s Danny Kelly and Nora Princiotti join the show to talk about the three best coaches of the season (19:25). Kevin then talks with NBC’s Cris Collinsworth in an extended version of The Ringer’s video series ‘Slow News Day’ (57:24). Host: Kevin Clark Guests: Jay Glazer, Danny Kelly, Nora Princiotti, and Cris Collinsworth Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It is the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark, jam-pack show today. Jay Glazer joins me. Talk about Carson Wences benching, Brady and Arients in Tampa, and much more. Nora Princiotti, Danny Kelly and I talk about the best coaching jobs of 2020. And then Chris Collinsworth joins me as part of our extended slow newsday discussion. We'll talk about the Eagles, MVP discussion, his MVP vote, and much more. Today's episode of the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network is brought to you by

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All right, Jay Glazer, Fox, Ballers. What else? I mean, you've built some media empire, man. Oh, man. Hey, well, now I just lost a GNC line of proteins and amino acids and free workout drinks and helping to benefit my charity and my MVP Foundation, but also on breakable our performance center. That for me was a dream come true.

I have my own protein supplement line, man. I mean, that's the first store I ever went to. as a kid growing up, because I was trying to work out and train for the physical part more so to help me with the mental health part. You know, I was, you know, people who's, the reason why we fight or work out or something, and, you know, at least for me, it was, it was to help me, you know, get a little more self-worth because I didn't have a lot growing up with my own, you know, mental health issues. So for me, that comes all the way for full circle. And I created this gym out here call them breakable to, again, to give myself a team so I could deal with my own depression

and my own anxiety and to have this built up now where I have my own line, oh, my God. And then, again, my charity, which is, this is our five-year anniversary. We take former combat events and former NFL players and former athletes and merge them together and give a new team again, remind them what their greatness is that it's not just a uniform, it's behind the rib cage. And this week's our five-year anniversary. We're in five locations. The majority of our MVP years before meeting us attempt to suicide.

And that's over 50%, but I think it's over 60%, somewhere in the 70s. The number of our MVP is the last five years of our veterans and players in the last five years who have committed suicide since is zero. not lost a single one, man. And again, we're giving these guys a new team again. And, you know, the world is a scary place when you don't have your tribe. So we're building up and giving these guys a new tribe and giving them a place where we can talk openly and be vulnerable. And, you know, vulnerabilities are real strength, man.

So amazing. Amazing. It is cool, but you're working with USA ahead of the Army Navy game. We'll get to that. Let's start with the story that you broke some news on this weekend. You reported that Carson Wentz's confidence started to dip when Jalen Hertz was selected in the second. and around in the spring. Obviously, he's been benched now.

What is the future of Carson Wentz? Can he come back from this? What happens next with the Eagles? Well, I guess we have to see how Jaylon plays. You know, does he progress? You look at the same tasting meal every week. He's gotten better. Maybe he's done things that Sean Payton's ass

and you want to see progression. But the other part of it, and this is why comparative to Aaron Rodger, another different people. But, man, when a challenge comes up, you know, you find out a couple times in your life how you respond. Aaron Rogers like, oh, you're going to draft this kid?

I'm going to stick it up everybody's butt as a result. Carson Wentz let it get to him, and it really got to his confidence. If you're a quarterback out there and you have a lack of confidence or something's messing with your confidence, that's not a good recipe. And it's funny because I'm talking to people in the Eagles yesterday, and we're talking about moving on from Carson Wentz. And there's a huge dead money and cap hit for a guy who's not on your roster. and one of my guys were just like,

I can't even believe we're talking about this. And he said, like, yeah, but it could have to go, no, I mean, I can't believe we're even having this conversation. I know why we're having it. I can't believe that we're here. And listen, they did a lot, you know, with Carson Wentz, they got rid of Nick Foll. I think they have done certain things to make sure that he always knew he was the guy.

But for some reason, he didn't have that security this year when they brought him in. So I guess the question is, how is, When Stought of in the league, is he, is it the type of player that, I mean, I thought maybe Foles his contract was unmovable. And then we saw Chicago redo it a little bit. Is he the type of guy where if there, if there was no way back for him, would teams take that huge cap hit? Is there still some worth there if you look at the other 31 teams? Yeah, we still look at as well, right now teams are tracks in their head. Right.

Right. But you know the egos of people in the NFL thinking, oh, I guess it. Yeah. It happens all the time. Yeah. We see guys trade for huge contracts and huge things all the time thinking they're going to be all the one to fix somebody and make them a star, make them a pro bowler. And, you know, more often than not, it has more to do with what you got between your own ears and what you got behind your own wristgates than what this guy can teach me over here to coach me. So, you know, I do think we all know that Carson has the talent.

And I do, I can see somebody certainly making a run for him thinking that. but, you know, I think a lot of it is going to depend on how he handles it going forward. And if he comes back in and how he, you know, there's going to be a lot there. There's going to be a lot of, and as we know in Philly 2, there's going to be a lot of noise around it. The noise is what fascinates me. I mean, listen, three years ago, this was like the smartest organization in football. I mean, their roster in 2017, the salary gap management, schemes going forward on fourth down, just the talent they put together.

They're outduling Bill Belichick with backup quarterback. this is the model organization and now everything's been turned on its head. Does everybody make it to next year, knowing what we know about the Wenz contract and all that stuff, or is there kind of noise out of Philadelphia right now that we don't know? Well, you know how the noise gets in Philadelphia. So I guess I do. Right.

Latter, ladder, ladder, a ladder. But it's interesting what happened to the NFL. Doug Peterson, he is a very good coach. And again, like you just said, he out-coach Bill Belichick. You don't suddenly just become a dumb, you know what? but when you're a quarterback isn't playing well also you look like you can't coach when your quarterback's playing well you look like a genius

and you know he is you know I think he's he's done everything he could to try to get Carson over this home and to see things and it's just you can see him out there he just doesn't have the confidence also I mean Jalen came right in and just said he just went for it went down jail and Carson I think was just holding on not to make a mistake

and so that goes beyond, yes, it's part of it's Doug Peterson, absolutely, but it goes beyond Doug. Again, it's a lot of it on Carson. But, yeah, the rest of the organization right now, I mean, if it gets worse and worse, then you'll hear it more and more. But listen, if Jalen plays really well and we're not having this conversation. Right, yeah. That contract and what happens there is so fascinating because we've never really had a mega deal like that where, you know, there's, it would.

take almost 70 million to cut them. Yeah. I mean, like some of these guys, okay, maybe they, they overpaid for whatever, but at least they're on the field.

You know, I mean, at least they're, okay, they're making $30 million, but they're throwing the ball forward. So it's fascinating. I want to switch gears to a guy

who is not overpaid, and that's Tom Brady. Obviously, the bucks, the buck's season has been very strange. And I thought they'd get better throughout the season because Tom Brady, you know this more and more than anybody.

He's so exact. He loves knowing where everybody's going to be in the chemistry and all that stuff. And this season is such a weird as far as no training camp, no OTAs, no offseason, like to, you know, the off season workouts, the whole deal. How do you view this, this buck season? Is it going to trend in the right direction?

Are they going to be better in January than they are now? Are there, are the issues with Bruce Ariens real, imagine? What is the state of play right now in Tampa? No, here's the thing. Tom and Bruce personally, they're good. Like, Tom and both did have great. It wasn't, there's nothing warm and fuzzy. With Bruce, you always know where you get it.

Right. You're always going to know what you get. And you got to appreciate that. Listen, Tom is, Tom is a repetition guy. Like, people look at guys like Tom or Drew Breeze, and they just think, oh, these guys are just more talent than everybody else. Oh, no, no. They do more work than anybody else.

They out-wept everybody else. They do all the work when nobody else is looking. And that's what really makes greatness is how much are you doing when nobody else is watching? Tom Brady, in order to be great, you've got to be sick. You got to be crazy. And he has that crazy sick genius. and then where he's constantly texting his coaches. What about this?

What about this? He's constantly looking at other things. But, you know, I think they definitely run out. They've hit a skid. They've got to keep that running in going. You know, also when they've grown in AB, I think that's when they kind of started, you know, I don't know if there's a correlation,

but things that just haven't been, hasn't been as sound. I'm not saying this on AB, but I've been just trying to think, like, what's happened over the last few weeks. I'm trying to figure it out as well. And so, you know, maybe grass in the straws here a little bit. But they haven't had all these reps.

I think they played so well early. A lot of that was their defense, right? A lot of that was their running game. They played so well early. We almost got, we forgot that and these guys didn't have a chance to do anything together in cap. You know, they had three weeks together. They had no games together.

They're going to hit some little speed bumps along the way. but it's Tom Brady, man. I still think that, you get the postseason. He knows how to step up and find that other guy better than anybody who's ever done. It's amazing. And you talk about the details. I remember I'm talking to Tony Gonzalez. And he used to work out with him out in L.A. sometimes.

And it would be, you know, June 5th. And he would, Tom Brady would throw a perfect pass in Tony's eyes. And then Tom Brady just be screaming because it's half an inch off. And it's like, it's June. We're good. And so, like, obviously there's, you know, Tom's going to want to know everything is. I mean, he's just, he's just a different dude. Jay, with the coach, there was a debate yesterday, Gil Brant put out about 20 Coach of the Year candidates and everyone started arguing about it on Twitter.

And it struck me in a year where coaching is more important than ever because the adaptability and all that stuff, that you could make a case for 10, 15 guys this year to be coach of the year because of the job they've done. When you look around the league right now, who's doing the best coaching job? And is there someone we're not talking enough about for that coach of the year type slot, Jay? Mike Tomlin, Chalbigh. Yeah. And obviously, Andy Reid. Sure. But Mike Tomlin, what he's done, I mean, listen, that they got their games, how many games did they got moved this year?

Right. And, you know, they lost this week. They didn't have James Conner. Real just looked at it like, oh, they have that, no. They need that running game. They didn't have James Connor, right? They lost, you know, they had guys go up and that even last, like, way Mike Tomlin is, and Mike and I, we talk a lot and, you know, known him forever.

And the thing about Mike is, hey, man, even going to the season, whatever hand you deal on me, that's the hand we're going to play. Doesn't matter to me. Doesn't matter. Guy goes down, hey, okay, that's what we're going to do. And I think he, listen, this guy shouldn't be coached the years to get the Nobel Peace Prize because when let me have Ellen, Antonio Brown was here. You need your word. You're nothing, right? He's just, he's so consistent with those guys, so he allows them to overcome that.

Then you go and look at what Sean Payton's done over there, right? and with Drew Breeze and getting Drew, again, Drew's a rep guy. So he didn't get all the reps in offseason. There's no OTAs. No, there wasn't much training camp, no get. He needs that. And he had to get Drew out of that. And also what he's done with Taysam Hill and the defense over there.

So I think those are two. So when you talk to coaches, whether it's Mike or Sean or whomever, about this year and how weird it is, what's the one thing they bring up that we don't talk enough about, about just the strength, you know, obviously there's no team bonding, no team meals, all this stuff, the practice. schedule is always getting screwed up, you know, oh, we're not going to practice on a Friday, whatever. When you talk to these guys about how screwed up this year is from a football standpoint, what's

a hard to build a culture, you know, it's hard to build a culture. None of that for new players, I've had players tell me on new teams like, man, my last team, I would like die from my brothers in that locker room now because I'm with them over there. Now I don't really, we don't have a chance to really know each other. We can't bond. We can't go out and get that camaraderie. And look, you know, like I said, I started my MVP charity to, to give these guys a locker room again,

to give these guys a tribe again, right? When you lose your tribe, that's when things suck. And that's really hard. You can't build up this tribe. And that's why I thought the teams like the Steelers and the Seahawks and the Saints and those teams that have been together, we're going to do well this year. Yeah.

Last thing for it before we get to the USA stuff is about the coaching carousel and what this is going to look like. Because I think that every job has its pluses and minus is really in a way that I think that we really haven't had this many kind of jobs that maybe there's a lot of you take a job like Atlanta, maybe it's a tear down, maybe it's a build on that Ryan and Julio Jones. I mean, there's just so many possibilities out there. With the coaching carousel, give us something that maybe we're not expecting or what you're hearing where they might surprise some people this year. Is there a job that is more enticing inside the league than maybe we give

a credit for or the opposite? How do you view that? I think Jacksonville is a little more enticing because how many draft picks they have and, you know, owners willing to spend the money, even though, you know, Doug's still there, I think it's pretty obvious. But the other interesting thing is usually everybody wants offensive coaches. We have a whole run on offensive coaches. You're looking for the next Shaw McVeigh and Sean Pate.

It's just not that this year. You don't have that. You have a ton of defensive coaches who are out there, who you really want leading your team. But you don't have the number of offensive coaches that you had in the past. And you have Eric Bied on me from Chiefs, you have Arthur Smith, from the Titans.

There's not a ton of offensive guys out there. And usually you want a lot of these guys want the offensive guy because it's the prettier guy and they want that Sean McVeigh, Sean Payton, but also they don't leave. Your offensive coordinator start moving on. A lot of times, you know, defensive guys, you got them there for a while. So I think they can go deeper this year.

I love a guy like Rick Martin, Delah, Baltimore. Yeah, too. the rapids. Because you want them taking on the personality of their head coach. That's where you want. So maybe you look a little bit more out of the box, not what your typical, shiny, offensive-minded head coach normally is. And you know what? A guy like Raheem Morris, if somebody doesn't hire him this year, then this system's broken. Without a doubt. Will Jim Harbaugh get NFL offers if he's available? I mean, I still think owners would kind of take a swing in him. I, you know, I, um, I think he's better suited for college and the pro.

I think because, you know, he constantly has, you know, every couple of years, he has new guys that come in, like all the stuff he's getting after his guy. And that's where Parcell's was so masterful. He knew that his stuff wore off in like four years. So he's got out. Right? Brilliant. You know, sometimes your stuff, just it wears thin on guys.

And we have a short short short time. College is better suited for getting pros. Jim, we can't say enough about your work with vets. Tell us what you're doing with USAA. Yeah. So you want to say, look, I went to actually West Point last year with Fox, and this year's a game game, it's this weekend, and it's a different game. Normally it's the last game of the year.

And this year, it's actually being played at West Point this year, and it's the first time it's been played at not an independent site since World War II. And it's usually played somewhere right in between, you know, Army and Navy. But this year, what they're doing is they're having something to call ArmyNavyHouse, but ArmyNavyHouse.com, and we want fans to upload their pictures. Army, Navy, if you've been to the game, anything you have

that can show your fandom to either one, and you'll be entered for a chance to actually get flown out to the game next year in New York, or there's also a chance

to win a thousand. They're printing up a thousand commemorative tickets from this year's game, but listen, the Army Navy game, it's majestic, it's different than everything else.

It stands for more than every other college game out there every year. So I'm proud because the work that I do with the military And like I said, we've saved and empowered a lot of these cats in the last five years. I'm hoping to do millions over the next several years with our veterans because they deserve it.

And they deserve to have a weekend like this also where they can have a little, you know, a little, they're always on the same side. But this weekend is the one year that they get to be rivals and they get to have that little welcome distraction. Totally. Jay Glazer, great dude, great info. Thanks for joining us. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you.

All right. Now we bring in the dream team. Danny Kelly Norpron, see what's going on, guys. Danny. What's up? Talking coach of the year. Yeah. Peake arrow on your list.

Not this year, no. He just laughs. He doesn't answer. He just laughs. If you would have asked me, I mean, if you would ask me a month ago, yes, he would have been on my list, probably. All right. We're going to get to the list.

So here's the criteria. We're not doing strictly coach of the year. That's a little bit boring. What we're doing instead is the best coaching jobs this year. And it only, it's only, it's only, for this year. I don't want to say who's the best coach in the NFL. I don't want to do. Just who did the best job with their team in 2020, the weirdest year of all time. That's the criteria. Danny, you briefly thought that this was about the open job. So you started to prepare for that.

I thought about how funny it would be if you would just continue to do that and then brought your notes about the best open jobs. O'Norra and I had a separate discussion. But I just wanted to be like a deer in the headlights and be like, oh, God, I prepared for the wrong podcast. So I'm just going to talk to you about the Jaguars and how how great this franchise is for a new coach. The building blocks. The building blocks. I really, I think it would have been kind of electric.

Like, if you just would have embraced it. We would have loved it. It would have been like the Olegia bit where he confused Gore Vidal with Vidalas As soon. And then he had a bunch of questions for Vidalas as soon, but he asked Gore Vidal. All right. I've heard all of your lists. I'm intrigued by them. Nora, start us off.

All right. So are we doing one by one? or do you want me to say all three, we're going, we're going to go three to one. Oh, I didn't really rank mine, but okay. Well, you have to now. All right. All right. So from the bottom.

Between you and D.K., there's just not a lot of preparation for this podcast. I also, I got to be honest, when you, so for the listener, before we start recording, Kevin ushers this in with a nice three to one, there was the longest pause between your three and your two that has ever existed in my time podcasting with you. And I got to say, it, it knocked me off my skis a little bit. Anyway, time, time is a social construct. So, no one ever said you have to go from three to two in one second, okay? Except my preschool teacher.

I mean, come on. This is podcasting. We're stretching the limits of what's possible here. All right. Well, we are going to go from three to two in this case. In my number three slot, I have Sean Payton. Oh, that's right. And there's kind of a big picture reason.

or a longer term reason and a short term reason. The short term reason is simply, I am not here to tell you that the Saints offense is better with Taysam Hill. It is significantly less efficient, including, especially through the air. Danny was geared up for that discussion. I wanted you to tell me that, yeah. But I feel like they have functioned to a level where we can say that Sean Payton read the tweets and he came in prepared

and he's proved some of the haters wrong. Yeah. And that in and of itself is enough for me to say, okay impressive good job you had a horrible thing happen with your quarterback's health and have stayed afloat and that's both a roster management thing of just having tasem hill available and a coaching thing with how they have changed the offense around and and gotten themselves prepared so tasem hill has played the falcons twice and then a team without a quarterback once okay and whether or not the saints or a team with a quarterback is a different discussion but i also think so he's on all of our lists and i also

thing with Peyton, you also have to consider that he's done very well with a regular starting quarterback who is, whose physical limitations are at this point obvious. And so it's not just what happens the last three games of Taysam Hill. It's the fact that they look like they're going to win the NFC. Once Breeze gets healthy, even though Breeze can be so much more banged up and still be productive. And because he doesn't throw down the field, he's just a smart guy. offense is really good. And so I just think that there's, I think Sean Payton since week one has actually had a really good coaching job. And that's why he's on all of our lists. So that's a big part of my sort of longer term reason for this, but it starts for me even before week one. Right.

So Sean Payton was the early training camp bubbler of the Saints and they got hotels and they put everybody together. And they just had a really proactive strategy about how they were going to go, go about this year. And it canceled all the offseason. Cancelled all the off season stuff. I think had a good sort of finger on the pulse of that being a veteran team that could get itself ready. And then they come into the year and they're good in all three phases. I think by DVOA, their eighth on offense, second on defense, seventh on special teams.

You will notice a theme in my choices that every coach I'm identifying as having done a good coaching job has a team. that has good special teams units. That's just a little clue for the listeners. Anthony Lynn, Anthony Lynn number one. Unfortunately, Anthony Lynn's not on the list. Oh, man. No, I totally agree with you. D.K. has Sean Payton as well.

I just think that there's, when I look at the NFC South, and this something I said in the preseason, was that this is such a weird year. Continuity is going to be so important that I thought the Saints would come out of the gate strong, and that by the end of the year, there was the possibility that the bucks would catch them

because they were getting up to speed and it was going to take a little bit because they were behind the eight ball of continuity. And what ended up happening is that the bucks have apparently stalled and the Saints had gotten better. And that's impressive to me because they were supposed to have a built-in edge. And then they came out. They lost in week two to the Raiders, lost in week three to the Packers. And then they just got better every single week to the point. I mean, their defense is getting better every single week. I just love the coaching job he's done.

Danny Kelly, do you have Peyton at three or do you have them above that? I have him at two on my list. And basically you guys stole all my answers, but I would just reiterate, like the team, the fact that it's gotten better as the season has gone on, and like Norris said,

they're good in all three phases. To me, that indicates not just like an overarching vision for what they want to do, but like they've coached up, they've identified their issues, they've fixed things, which is, you know,

it's possible. You can have a bad team and then you can, like, make some changes schematically and things get better. We've seen that, you know, when the Falcons have kind of improved since they've moved on to, you know, they moved away from Dan Quinn and kind of figured some things out. I think just the fact that they've been able to go through the year after the defense was pretty bad to start the season.

And they really fixed that. They're coming on strong, you know, schematically. They changed up their offense to have Taysam Hill be able to at least keep it afloat. And they had the foresight to kind of like have two options that quarterback in case Drew Brees got hurt because you're dealing with an older quarterback. who, you know, I just feel like it makes the injury concern and risk higher. So all in all, I think he's done a really good job. And, you know, I was also going to add the stuff about, you know, the preseason, making sure everybody got to a bubble, all that stuff.

I think they were on the cutting edge with that stuff too. So overall, I think he's just done a really good job. He also proposed the playoff bubble, which the NFL should do. Yeah, he's stepped up and kind of advocated for some of that stuff, which I'm sure goes a long way with players. The other thing Sean Payton recently said, which I appreciated, I saw this on pro football talk. I don't know if he might have been on his radio show or in some interview.

But he did earlier this week, a drop in a little reminder that the head coach of a team can in fact speak to a defensive coordinator if they were, say, to call an insane defense on the last play of a game. He just, he felt like it was worth mentioning that he has the technology to speak to Dennis Allen

if a situation like that ever were to arise. And I don't know. what brought that on but Steve Smith has a podcast and I was listening to it a couple weeks ago before by Mark Angram's Swan News Day because Ingram was a guest and on Steve Smith podcast and but he was talking about how when the Panthers played the Saints that it went under the radar about how much those teams didn't like each other because it was the Panthers and the Saints and it was Yon-Sty South and it was you know 1 p.m. on Fox but he said the trash shock between the receivers and Sean Payton specifically Steve Smith and Sean Payton was insane.

that Sean Payton is just like kind of a lunatic out there and that I actually enjoy it. I think players really respond to Sean Payton, both those who play for him and then those who play against him. I think he's a really fascinating guy. Yeah, agree. Absolutely.

All right. Nora number two. So my number two is Brian Flores who Kevin is fist pumping. So I presume, is he on your guys' list as well? He is. He is my number one.

Yes. He's your number one. Wow. Okay, he is my number two. So in general, look, what do we think of as the number one thing that he needed to do? Wait, I just realized who your number one is and my mind has been blown. But I just, I don't want you to say it. I don't want you to say it.

But I just realize that you haven't said the person I was most intrigued by, which means you're going to put him at number one. This is like the NBA draft lottery where it's like, oh, wow, the hornet's got two. Oh, my God. That means so-and-so is one. As soon as you were like, we're raced. ranking them. Yeah.

My first reaction was, oh, snap, I didn't really think this through. And then I took about five seconds to think it through and went, oh, this is going to be fun. Just shoot your way out. It's like an action movie. You shoot your way out. Go out on top. But so the dolphins in general play like a really disciplined team. They likewise have very good special teams.

I believe they're second by DVOA. They also have the fourth fewest penalties. So all of those hallmarks of just like a. not screw up a team. Love that. Love to see that from the dolphins. Love to see that from Brian Flores. However, there's also the

bigger picture stuff of he brought a defense that he knows really well to Miami and installed it incredibly effectively. We've seen so many old Patriots assistants not choose the right players to bring with them and just be like, try to be

Belichick clones and have it not work out. I think he's done a great job of taking some of the principles of the defense that he knew so well in New England, installing them in Miami, leaning on guys like Kyle Van Nuida to help do that, but not getting, for lack of a better word, bogged down in sort of the bullshit of pretending to be Bill Belichick.

And I think you can see how effective it's been in how good their defense has been, but also in how those guys seem to respond to him. I know we just saw him sort of stand up for Jakeem Grant last week, but it was really interesting to me how so many of the dolphins were saying things after that game. Like Tuo was saying it's just a testament to how close they are. And Flores was saying he has to do that in a way that's not, you know, potentially going to lead to a fine or a penalty or whatever.

And they've all got to do that. But just that he thinks of them like his kids and he wants to stand up for them. I think Jakeem Grant's agent was talking about how, like, tweeting stuff about how much Chiquim loves him and how tight-knit that team is. And I think that goes a long way when you're trying to build a program and you're trying to really grow rapidly because definitionally,

you start from a bad place, right? So, like, when he became the coach of that team, it was not a good team. And you have to find ways to get guys to buy in without just being like, we're going to win 12 games every year because that's never going to be your starting off point or very rarely going to be your starting off point.

are very rarely going to be your starting off point. And I just think it's very cool to watch that. I mean, I think I famously am of the opinion that the one mistake of the year was maybe not pulling the trigger on going to two at the right moment. That is, again, my opinion. But in general, when you have that leeway with players, you can navigate a two-quarterback situation more effectively. And I think they play really smart, but I also just think that the team seems to really respond to him. All right. I'm going to let Danny and I talk about Flores when we're doing our list.

because I need to get to your number one as quickly as possible. My number one coaching job of 2020 is Bill Belichick. And I wish I could pipe in booze. Like, I should just be, there should be some sort of sound effect. By the way, the only reason Bill Belichick is not going to get Coach of the Year is because he is in some ways the reason his coaching job is so impressive. to me because he is the reason they have so little talent to work with. Much housing by proxy but in coach form. Like that's exactly what it is. That is truly exactly what it is.

Like they, so, okay, they've won, I think, four of their last five games. They are in sniffing, spitting distance of the playoffs. I don't know what that phrase is. But whatever it is, the Patriots are there. That to me is remarkable with like Demir Bird. and Jacoby Myers and a not Cam Newton of old Cam Newton. We know that by now enough to say it. It is just in all of the, we've talked about the opt-outs a zillion times,

but they are missing so many defensive pieces. That roster is just not good, but what they do, and I thought they were going to do it a couple times this year, was they go into games and they win them with situational awareness. They don't make mistakes. but what's happening is they're doing that at kind of half the time, which to me is really remarkable. They have the fourth fewest penalties.

They've also, so they won two games right at the buzzer, the Jets game and the Cardinals game, which were just like total coaching wins, total situational awareness wins. By the way, it's not great to have a situational awareness win against the Jets, but that to me is reflective of the roster,

which makes the coaching so much more impressive. The other two, the bill's loss, It has nothing to do with coaching. That's just a player fumbles. And then the Seahawks, you can quibble with running power twice on the goal line and that not getting in. But they'd run that really effectively all game. You can also make an argument that you stick with what's working. And if it doesn't work, you go down fighting.

So I don't really have too much of a problem with that. And this is a terrible team. There's so much more talent on the Chargers than there is on the Patriots. and they beat them 45 to nothing. It's just, it is spectacular. Special team's edge. It is that special. Oh, God.

I need to like go to the margins. This is unacceptable, but I think it's true. All right. So I agree with you that Bill Belichick's done a great job this year. I don't, I'm not ready to put him on this list, certainly not at number one.

Just knowing you are, this is the first year at the ringer, people get really mad at me when the Patriots win the Super Bowl. And then I'm like, Bill Belichick is a really good coach. People will go, oh, nice suck-up job for your boss. Okay, wait, hold on a second.

Can I just say one more thing? Why would it be at all strange if Bill Belichick had done the best coaching job this year? I think he is fairly, fairly solidly the consensus, if not best coach in the NFL, like one of the three, right? We can all feel that way? Yeah. Okay, so he's working and all those other same people are working. Why would he not still be better at it? There's a couple of things.

Number one is that Bill Belichick suffers from the same kind of thing with the MVP where there's just Belichick is a genius fatigue, I think, a little bit. And I'm talking about perception. I'm talking about perception. Great, but we're not talking about who's going to win the Coach of the Year Award. We're talking about who's done the best coaching job. Oh, I agree. Well, I think the whole, listen, the whole thing, the whole concept of doing,

of having a great coaching job with the Coach of the Year Award is a little bit out of whack. I'm like, Andy Reid is on none of our lists. Andy Reid's probably going to Super Bowl. and in large part because of the infrastructure that Andy Reid set up with Patrick Mullins. They're probably going to win the Super Bowl. But yet we don't look at that as some great coaching job. They become a victim of their own talent and for their own success.

Andy Reid is the second best coach of his generation. Bell Bouchak is number one. And so I'm just saying that I think in some cases, the infrastructure that they build is so good that the appearance is that they're not doing more or less, if that makes sense. For Belichick, for Belichick, obviously is a different situation with Reed. Yeah, but Andy, so Andy Reid, I think that the argument for why that would be happening

would be that they have basically the same level of talent, actually plus a little bit of experience, and they have a less explosive high-scoring offense than they used to. Yeah. I mean, I think everybody's graded on a curve because of how weird this season is. And also, I think that I don't think anybody's worried about the chiefs in any, in any way. And I also think that the chiefs... I'm certainly not.

If the chiefs were putting up... If the chiefs were putting up record-breaking points, I still don't think Andy Rue would be considered coach of the year. Really? Yeah, I don't think so. If they were on pace

to just shatter offensive records, I don't think there's a case to we made the Andy Reid with Patrick Mahomes in the same roster of last year would win coach of the year. I don't, I don't think that that's how that narrative works. Yeah, it's a narrative.

Have you seen the Coach of the Year Award winners. Well, so, okay, but we're not talking specifically about coach of the year. We're talking about best coaching job. I know what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. I'm just saying I'm done with the perception of it all. That's all. And so

could Bill Belichick have done the best coaching job, yes. But I also feel like I also feel like you kind of have to make the playoffs for that. And I understand that they're in the mix for that, but I think that there have been less talented teams who have made the playoffs than what the patients currently have.

It's not, they're not tanking. They didn't, they didn't find a bunch of street free agents. They still have some talent left over from last year. They found quite a few street free agents. I don't think, I don't, I think there's a happy medium between. They had the best defense of all time through 12 weeks last year. And now they, a bunch of they had six opt-outs or whatever it was. And now they're the worst team in the history of, worst rostering the street football.

I don't think that happened. There's something there. We got to a point where the international player pathway program fullback was like an essential part of the offense. And if he got injured, everything was going to fall apart. Well, that's because Belichick loves fullbacks. So you agree. He could have just gone down to Navy and found a new one. And that would have been an evidence of great coach.

I just want to say. To the regional pullback. here are the last five coaching winners okay john harbaugh which obviously he it's lamar jackson first full season matt neggy who takes over and turns mitchell tribusky into a playoff quarterback very briefly sean mcvay who turns jared golf into a passable starter jason garrett who turned jack prescott into something in 2016 after being drafted and then ron rivera and I was just them clicking. So everybody who's won the award

in the last five years has either turned a quarterback, a young quarterback, into something more than he was, or just it clicked for them for the first time. And Rivera obviously had made the playoffs that success, but they weren't a Super Bowl contender until that year. And so you have to make some sort of

leap to win this award. And that's why I think Belichick, we're not going to have that thought about Billichick. Even if Even if he deserves it, Nora. Even if you're right, he is doing a much better coaching job than Sean Peyton and Brian Forrest. I didn't say much better. No, better. He's out-coaching Sean Payton who's going to win the Super Bowl.

He's lapping the field. With a linebacker. It's kind of true. I believe that. How many games does Belichick win if Taysson Mill is a starter this year for all 16 games? I think 12. They go 12 and 4. God damn it.

competing with the chiefs. No, no, here's what happens. He converts Tazam Hill to like tight end and, you know, and plays no quarterback. No, you know what he does? He converts Tazam Hill to tight end and still plays him a quarterback. Think about it. Danny Kelly, your list.

It can't be as explosive as that one. Yeah, it's, mine's relatively boring compared to it. I got Tomlin at number three for a number of reasons just because, you know, obviously, from a consistency point of view, I know that they just lost this last week, but starting 11 and 0, that is not easy to do. You know, you have to, whether all these things are happening during this crazy season, you know, they had a couple of their games get moved around. He managed to kind of just keep them going really even keeled.

I do think schematically that he's done some good things. Obviously, he has a very talented defense, but he's managed to kind of, I don't know how much input he has in this, but he's changed up the offense with Ben Rothsberger to kind of like make up. for his lack of arm strength and overcome like that injury that's kind of still just always sort of lingering with the elbow thing. You know, their offense is very much predicated on short passing and getting guys in space and in yards after the catch and all that stuff. I think he's done a good job with that. Using their talent really well. All the things that you kind of think about when you think about coaching, same deal that I was saying with Sean Payton is just like they get the most other players. And I really think that Tomlin's done a really good job of that.

You know, obviously, it, recency bias, I guess would say they lost this last game, but at the same time, I think he's just done an incredible job with his team overall throughout the season. So,

he would be, I think, up there for both coach of the year and just best coaching job. I think that the more distance, I think John Harbaugh deserved to win last year for what he did with Lamar Jackson. And I think, you know, when he was voted on,

he'll hit the Ravens win Super Bowl. Everything flipped. on its head, obviously in January, and Patrick Mahomes kind of reclaimed to the throne, all that stuff. But I think Mike Tomlin should have been in the conversation last year for getting that that team to competence without Ben Rothsberger. I think that I expect them to be really good this year because Rathspergo was just coming back on a team that was just getting better. But I've been really impressed. You know, Jay Gleaser was on this podcast 15 minutes ago making the same case, Danny, that Mike Tomlin should be in this conversation and

he's done one of the best coaching jobs because they've just been, listen, this is the first time in modern history that teams are having to play on weekday afternoons. Okay? Like that's never going to happen again. And this is a league where people are so addicted to scheduling. Oh, we got to have their routine. Oh, today is a, like, when they play Thursday night football,

they're always like, well, Monday is a Tuesday, a schedule, and Tuesday is a Wednesday. And they're just like every hour has to be totally manipulated to make sense. And now there's none of that. And coaches have given up control. and the ones you're doing a good job this year are doing so because they're really good and they have adaptable minds. And Mike Tomlin's got that.

And that's why I've been impressed with they've been able to do the three games in 12 days. Didn't work in the football team game. But I still generally love the coaching job. Nora, Mike Tomlin. It is also, I agree that he's done a very good job. I also think that when something is a narrative award, as we know a lot of these things, including Coach the Year. I almost kind of want to lean into that stuff.

I think Mike Tomlin also deserves a retroactive Coach of the Year award. He should just like get more of them. He's more deserving of the acclades that he's been given because I think we learn a lot of things in hindsight about what it is like to coach the Steelers where that man has done an admirable job of keeping everything afloat and normal, relatively speaking. And I applaud him for it. I also, I'm just going to keep talking about Bill Belichick on this podcast. Like, I'll get canceled or whatever. but that Monday's Tuesday, Tuesday's Wednesday, Wednesday is Thursday, that is a classic Fellechek filibuster in a press conference is just like you get 10 minutes with him or something

and he spends four of them just saying the names of days. What are we doing here, man? At best of when he said the combine, it was like a 15 minute window when he just starts talking about like the growth of the combine. Like, well, I remember 1987 putting the cones out. And then he's starting names like nine prospects. It's just, it's just something to behold, a Belichick billabuster. All right, Danny, number two for you.

So number two, I got Peyton, and we kind of already covered him, obviously. I think, and this might be biased a little bit, too, because I'm taking into account the fact that he was able to keep the ship afloat last year when Breeze went down also. So now he's 8-0 as a head coach with his starting quarterback going down. And that's not easy in the NFL. I mean, we look at what, look at how some teams are doing with their starting quarterbacks. You know, and so the ability to do what they've been able to do with their backup quarterback I think that's that just speaks directly to the infrastructure there in New Orleans and the coaching and the emphasis that they have on certain things and

I also think it's just kind of honestly it's kind of cool and it impressed me that he He made the decision to go with Taysam Hill because everyone thought he was just nuts to do it You know what I mean and everyone's basically he's been laugh everyone's been laughing about the whole Taysome Hill thing. And why, like, why does he do this? It's ridiculous. Why'd they give him a $21 million contract? All this stuff. It's so ridiculous. And then they've gone three and oh with him under under center. I know that it's not been pretty. And like you said, it's not been like necessarily against great teams, but I don't know. These are NFL teams. It's still very, very impressive to me

what they've done. So I would say Peyton is is there for number two. And he's another guy that's just, he's always doing, it feels like he's always just, you know, doing a really good job and kind of flies under the radar like Tomlin. Agree. All right. Number one. Drum roll, please.

You already said it. That's okay. Brian Flores for the dolphins, who to me the biggest thing is, and Nora definitely already touched on this, but just the tenacity and the way that they play, you can tell this team. He went in there and almost immediately changed the culture of the entire organization.

And, you know, that's like what teams are looking for when they get these new head coaches. You want guys that come. in and people are going to buy in immediately. And, you know, not to just bag on Patricia, but, like, you could tell it, no one bought in to that when he went to Detroit. And, you know, when when he left, everyone was talking about, like, there was reports after this last game when Beville was the interim head coach. And he was talking about coaching with, um,

enthusiasm and passion and all this stuff. It's like people had just been beaten down by the Patricia culture, it felt like in Detroit for so long. And, and, you know, that's very contrasted, in my opinion, with another guy that comes out of the same organization, but for whatever reason, he's making it work in Flores. He comes from the New England culture, and guys respect him and guys are buying in. And you can see that on the field. I think the actual coaching stuff that he's been able to navigate, I think he's done a good job, actually, with the quarterback situation, you know, basically trying to manage the fact that you have this young,

really talented quarterback who he has to learn how to go through you know tough times can't just have them in there when they're leading and when they're doing well he has to be able to learn learn how to react to adversity but the same time they're trying to get a playoff spot so I think he's managed to balance that pretty well in how he's kind of you know gone back and forth from Fitzpatrick and Tua so overall I just been impressed and then of course just getting the most out of his players on defense schematically came in he brought in guys to do specific things and then they've done it.

And a lot of the players that they've drafted and a lot of players that they brought in a free agency have been, you know, good role-playing contributors. So to me, that speaks to the coaching and the overall vision. I totally agree. And there were a lot of signings that I felt were borderline, I guess you could say, that were either coached up or just playing their best football.

And Emmanuel Adba is someone where I didn't think that, you know, through a month this season, everyone's like, well, what assigning a manuagba was. He's the guy that I was thinking of. Kyle Van Nuoy, to me, seemed like someone who was a candidate to be sort of a post-patriots bust.

And that turned out to not be the case. Obviously, I've long loved Byron Jones and teaming with Howard was brilliant and all that stuff. And I think Chris Greer has done a great job. But I just think that there's, that they are at this point, when a player goes to the dolphins, I assume they're going to get better.

And I think you can't say that for a lot of teams. All right, I'm going to quickly get to my list. Because we're running out of time. Number one, or number three, excuse me. Number three. Your own rule. My own rules. Number three is Kevin Stefansky.

Now, there were a lot of people I wanted to list, okay, because Sean McVeigh is doing a great coaching job. Kyle Shanahan is doing an amazing job, an amazing thing. We haven't gotten to Matt Lefleur. Nora, apologies to Matt Lefleur. Apollosges to Malifleur. We ran out of time. Ran out of time.

Shaw McDermott, the whole deal. Okay. Mike Vrable, Frank Reich, all great coaches. But when I was kind of pairing the list down, I had about 10 to 12 candidates, named someone there. When I was pairing down on the list, I was thinking that, someone who turns around the Browns

should get some recognition. Totally. They're 9 and 3. They've won a bunch of different games. Like, if you had told me that Baker Mayfield was going to throw a four touchdown pass in the first half. First guys in saw her gram to do it on Sunday. I would have been completely shocked because that was just totally uncharacteristic.

Now, the Titans are their own thing, and we understand that, and they don't have a bunch of pass rush, and they had coverage bus or whatever. They were just laying an egg on Sunday. But still, the Browns used to be that team. The Browns used to be the team that when there were expectations, they were just completely flop. Okay. Now they're not.

And so I just think that there needs to be some earned credit here for Kevin Stafansky and the job he's done. Someone had to do it. Someone eventually was going to do it. take some of that talent and turn it into wins. The offensive line has been gotten much, much better. The staff as a whole has gotten much, much better.

But I think that there's, you know, they've been building since, you know, the last, what, four drafts, adding guys like Miles Garrett, having Nick Chubb on the roster, all that stuff. They've got a lot of talent on almost every level of the roster. And so I think someone was going to do it, but the fact that it was Kevin's fancy, the fact that he's got,

he just knows how to win with this team and knows what to do with Baker Mayfield. I think Baker Mayfield had the real, there are a lot of scenarios where Baker Mayfield becomes the problem this year. And Kevin Stefansky didn't allow, I'm talking about just schematic. I think Baker Mayfield was making a lot of mistakes. And I feel like you could have put Baker Mayfield in a position where he was the problem this year on the field.

And that hasn't happened. So kudos to Kevin Stefanski. Number two, as we discussed, Sean Payton, said all the rest to say about him. And then number one for me is Brian Forrest. And part of this, and this is unfair. because I said that Tomlin should have been in the mix last year. I didn't give him the earn credit this year. I know that's a little bit contradictory.

But coming from where the dolphins were last year, where they get embarrassed by Lamar Jackson last September, there were times, I remember one of the linebackers told me that he'd be playing next to a guy, and he wouldn't know who he was. And he was meeting people on the field for the first time. That was foreshadowing, by the way, the Kendall Hinton experience a year later when the Denver Broncos just met their quarterback in the huddle.

but that used to not be normal. Now it's normal. That used to not be normal. But that was happening with the dolphins last year. And not only do they churn and make the most roster moves in history, they have some of the most salary cap room in history, the most draft capital. They were not designed to be this good this quickly.

And Brian Flores made them this good this quickly. And that's why I'm just so impressed this year. And they're eight and four, the Tua thing, a little weird, Nora, I think you were probably a little bit. I'm not ready to say that the year would have gone better with Ryan Fitzpatrick. And I won't say that because I think for the franchise, Tua playing is better. I just think there have been some bumps with Tua. And it hasn't mattered.

Were you going to say that I was vindicated? Was that the word that you, that you shied away from? Half vindicated. What is there a word for half indicated? I, I can only come up with two words, partially vindicated. How about this? I grudgingly accept your point. Okay, I'll take it.

I'll take it. I'll take it. All right. So to get where they are now, where they're probably going to make the playoffs, it's really interesting. And I think it's, I guys want to play there.

And I start to think when I talk to people down there, that this is going to be a long-term thing. And that's what I find interesting about it. With Peyton, the difference between Sean Peyton and Brian Flores is, quite frankly, that Brian Flores is newer. And this is a narrative thing for me, and it's just unfortunate perception thing.

I do think I will say, Danny, that the Taysom Winston thing, I mean, it's a bit of a Hobson's choice, just in the sense that I just think that Winston was so mistake-prone, that having someone do almost nothing is better than having Winston be Winston. Am I wrong about that?

That's how I've kind of felt about Winston, is you can't win. it's more fun to watch, maybe more exciting, probably better for fantasy football. The higher ceiling in theory, I guess. I don't think you can win with a guy who turns the ball over that much.

Yeah, well, and I think the thing about that is that the strength of that team is the defense. And if you are turning the ball over that much, you are putting the strength of your team in bad situations on a routine basis. So it's,

the ceiling, I think you're right, probably is higher, but it's in some way is, how James's volatility would impact the offense. Like that's not the only problem with that, right? It's you start eroding into the ability of what is the biggest strength that you have going to do its job most effectively. Yep. I'm in agreement with that.

And I also just think that you're just trying to build a bridge until Drew Brees comes back. Like, don't have James Winston thrown a bunch of interceptions. Like it's just, it's just the fact that he threw 30 interceptions last year and football outsider said he led the league and should have been intercepted passes that weren't intercepted. It just tells you just how unbelievably mistake prone he was last year. I think that there's a path forward for James Winston. I think the playing in Peyton system and practicing there is going to help him a little bit. But I just think that when you're trying to win a Super Bowl, I understand why you don't do it. I'll say that.

Anyway, back to Flores. He's my coach at the year if I had a vote. both Chris Collinsworth and I don't have a vote. And so I think that there's, yeah, I, I don't think that they're going to compete in the FACC this year. And I think that when they compete in the AFC, it will be dependent on the quarterback, what kind of leaps he takes. But I love the dolphins.

Anything else, guys? Sorry, Matt Lefleur. Right out of time. I do love Matt Leflur. Same. Totally same. I think he's great and I don't think he gets enough credit. And it's unfortunate we're only doing three.

here because of time constraints. He's definitely in the... I was like he was next on my list. Devansky off my list, but Matt Lafleur would have been up there as well. And I feel bad that we're not giving him a seat of the table, but unfortunately, we'll have to wait.

Thanks, guys. Thank you. Hey guys. Next up, Chris Collinsworth, NBC Football Night in America, Pro Football Focus, has a podcast with Richard Sherman. He joins me. And this is from our slow Newsday episode that ran this week on The Runner.com.

You can find it on Twitter, on YouTube, anywhere videos are shown. There was a lot of football in it. We decided we do this every couple weeks to throw in some of the longer football answers onto the pod just so you guys can get them. So here he is talking about the bills, the Steelers, and more. Chris Collinsworth, Football Night in America, pro football focus. The Chris Collinsworth podcast, Richard Sherman, one of my favorite podcasts in the planet. Chris, what's going on, man?

Just living a dream here. We're counting them down now. Only six more games for our season. And we'll see what happens after that. So there's a lot I want to get to the Eagles. Let's start here. Because we're going to get to a bunch of stuff that's not football and all that stuff. But we have to start with Carson Wentz.

You called that game four years ago in Minneapolis when they won the Super Bowl with Nick Foles. And the Eagles look like they might have been the smartest franchise in the planet. And they were winning with the backup quarterback and the best roster in football. and all the salary cap management and coaching and schemes and all that stuff. And now they look lost. They got Carson Wentz's deal hasn't even kicked in, $120 million starting next year. How do you fix this, Chris? I think there's one of two ways.

You either go with Carson Wentz the rest of the way and find out if he's really who you think he is. But you've gotten a pretty good look at him now, right? I mean, we've seen, we know what this team's going to do. Jalen Hurts comes in there and gave him a spark. not everything that happened was directly attributable to him. But it's one of the things I was talking about with Richard Sherman that there are just certain guys that can perk up a football team, right? That the punt return for a touchdown had nothing to do with Jalen Hertz.

But sometimes if you create the right energy, sometimes if you create a little spark, it carries to the defense, it carries the special teams, It can carry over. And I was just wondering, if you go inside that locker room, inside that Eagles locker room, and they had announced Carson Wentz was going to be the starting quarterback, would you have gotten the mumbling?

You know, locker rooms are famous for, you know, a little grumbling, you know, that kind of sound. Nobody's going to say anything. Nobody's going to contradict the coach. But you're going to get a little bit of that stuff. as opposed to Jalen Hertz is now the starter. And it's like, hey, this awful season, I wonder, do we have a chance? Can we still make the playoffs?

You know, all that kind of stuff. And nobody knows. Nobody, because now they're going to game plan for Jalen, right? That's completely different than coming off the bench for a handful of plays. Now they're going to get ready for him. They're going to go back to his college tape. They're going to go back to any time he's been the game. and they're going to get ready for him.

So do I think this is a sure thing? No. But I think almost for the sake of that locker room, sometimes you have to do certain things, and I think this is one of those things. All right. You talked about something a couple weeks ago on your podcast, we were sure that I found amazing.

An amazing question, and we need to dive into this. If you give Patrick Mahomes to Adam Gase and the Jets right now, over 16 games, what happens, Chris? I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I have no idea. I tend to think, I mean, is he going to be better than what they have? Of course. Can you carry a team on your back? Can we get back to the spark conversation? Do we get back to the hope conversation? Do we get back to the, we don't really need Trevor Lawrence anymore conversation? So I think, I mean, it would be different. Yeah. But I think it would be different for Patrick, too. That's a lot of talent he has around him, including Eric Biena, including Andy Reid. And so I tend to think that it would, it obviously would be less for Patrick. It would be more for the Jets.

So they both end up at 500 and we're not watching any of them on Sunday night football. So I'm totally against the idea here. Every time I say, every time I ask that question, people in the league, what happens with, if you give Patrick Holmes to a mediocre coach or bad coach, people in the side of the league say it's called Deshawn Watson, which I always found to be an interesting, an interesting idea there that maybe Deshaun has that kind of talent. Well, you know, the other one that's really interesting for me is that now Aaron Rogers and Patrick Mahon is probably the two frontrunners for MVP. So now, if they come out with very

similar numbers, right? They come out with very similar numbers. Do we give Aaron a little nod accepting the fact that the talent around him isn't quite what Patrick has. You know, I mean, what's the tiebreaker here anymore? And not that any of these guys care about it or you could even remotely get them in a conversation about this. But believe me, I was one of the voters forever on this thing. All of that stuff is going to come into play, all of it. Are you getting your MVP vote back? Who do we have to ask about this?

No, I got kicked out of the country. club. I can't believe it. And I didn't even know it. That was the interesting part about it was so I always did my vote for the MVP and all that stuff. But then they tried to play add on in the middle of the season and they wanted other things during the course of the year. And I could barely get to the MVP and all that stuff, you know. So I was like, and so I probably wasn't on time. And then the next time the MVP came around, I was out of the club. We start the campaign to get it back. Yes, yes, I would like to have it back. But I only want that.

I don't want to be voting on something every week. I only want just, I want a sliver. I want a vertical well. And I don't want the whole oil field. I just want that one well. It's totally reasonable. We just give you the MVP vote and nothing else. Nothing weekly.

I'll take rookie of the year. Okay, all that stuff. Just not during the season. Yeah, I don't want all. Sometimes they didn't want to do like other stuff. I don't want the other stuff. Okay, we'll end of the awards, no other stuff. Chris Collinsworth, we're getting your vote back.

It starts right now on Slender's Day. That's it. It starts. We'll get some graphics up. We'll do some music. We're going to get the whole thing. It starts right now. Do you trust anyone in this league right now to win a playoff game?

If you were to bet your life savings on anybody but the Chiefs, you go where? It is such a weird year. What we've seen, every team is mortal, every single team. I mean, the darned Steelers lost to the Washington team yesterday. I mean, even the Chiefs lost to the Raiders, almost lost with them again. If you're putting your bank account on someone this year, if not a chess game, where are you going?

It's not the Chiefs. Probably the Saints or the Buffalo Bills. You know, I watched the Buffalo Bills the other day, and I'm watching the tape. And I just feel like people are sleeping on the bills. If this were the Pittsburgh Steelers playing this way, or the San Francisco 49ers playing this way, we would go, okay, of course, they're one of two or three favorites.

The fact that the bills have kind of taken the slow path to get here, this is a defense that plays their tails off. This is an offense that can run it and throw it, and they've got good receivers. They can get open quickly. They've got a quarterback that if they're playing in bad weather, can run the football the way of Cam Newton can run the football. So this is a team that I think,

and they had the negative playoff experience, last year where they got the lead and they blew it and Josh did some crazy things at the end of the game, which I think will serve him well for this year, right? He does that. Yeah. So I'm and I think there's a chance they're going to be playing at home in some horrendous snowstorm and it's going to be awful and they're going to be used to it. And then Josh is going to be able to handle the bad weather with that big hand and his big arm. By the way, if you get your MVP vote back, who's your favorite right now?

I don't know that I could cast that bad. I would say today, today, today, Aaron Rogers would probably be mine. But, man, it's close. And I still don't think Russell Wilson's out of it. I think Russell Wilson's going to go on a stretch. Russell always has a little downturn in his season. I think he's going to put four together. It's going to be a really tight race with those three.

Hey, owning PFF the past couple of years, what's the most interesting thing you've learned about football? How many things that we all took for granted that just aren't necessarily true? You know, it's a, you know, what's more important? I think if you had asked me, is coverage more important or a pass rush? I would have said a pass rush. You know, I would have, when you talk about drafting players, Sequin Barclay or anybody, and everybody knows what a great, great player he is,

Ezekiel, it doesn't matter. They're great players. Should you draft a running back in the first round? And the answer is no, because it is the most replaceable position that there is in football. And generally, you need two or three to survive the season anyway. Whereas a great cornerback, a great tackle, a great wide receiver, a great quarterback can move the needle. And you have to focus in on the first round on those players that can, what they call it war, wins above replacement.

Yeah. That not necessarily a player, but the position has the greatest war, the greatest wins above replacement. So a quarterback may have Tom Brady and his heyday may have had an eight war, whereas a running back would never be more than one, you know, kind of a thing. So, you know, all the math that goes behind the decisions, whether to kick a field goal or go for it on fourth down, you know, those have been startling.

coaches now that they know the math are making decisions that we would have been screaming about, screaming about, you know, even five years ago. So that kind of stuff. You think they're buying in at the coaching level? Because that was always a thing. Because you think about the head coaches who, or even if they're named now, they came in in 2002 or 2003 as quality control guys. They didn't really have that.

I think there's been a shift, especially the last three years. We're at the head coaching level. These guys are pretty much bought in. 100%. I mean, really, Philadelphia, in my mind, was the first one. When they won that Super Bowl, they were going for it on fourth down a lot. The Baltimore Ravens completely bought in. You know, it's interesting that one of the great analytics organizations has been Seattle, and yet they've got kind of an old school defensive coach and Pete Carroll,

who even Pete is buying in to some of this stuff now. So it's really, for me, fun to watch the game evolve. And I think fun to have guys in our organization. I mean, we've got 600 guys working for us. We're going to be at 1,000 here pretty soon. We're going to be doing soccer. We're going to be doing rugby. We're going to be doing all these other sports.

But for me, watching the game of football change based on some of the mathematicians that we've hired, to me is really cool. someone once told me this if the Patriots were honest about how much analytics they used we would have had this 20 years ago but they were just not telling anybody let me give you my Patriots story so at the Combine every year we go up

and we put on our presentations for the teams right and so you know some organizations send in the defensive line coach some sent in the head of PR some you know I mean this is in the beginning of all these days the Patriots, and I'm not making this up, I think sent in three guys from Harvard, two from MIT,

and two from Stanford. And you go, oh, yeah, Belichick, he's this old school football coach. Yeah, Belichick's an old school football coach. Those guys, they know exactly what they're doing. You could think back, remember the whole Tom Brady thing where they went on fourth and two in Indy because they were playing Peyton Manning and everybody went, what? and I was calling the game. And the only reason I didn't go crazy, I was like,

Bill Belichick is no fool. He knows something that I don't know about going for it on his own 20-yard line. They don't make it. So it ends up sounding like a bad decision. But remember with analytics, it comes down to, this is like often a 51-49 decision, which means that 49 out of 100 times, you're going to make the wrong call.

You just have to be willing to live with that, 2% spread that over the course of the season is going to make you right. Great stuff. Chris Collinsworth. Thank you so much for joining us. That was amazing. Kevin is great to see you again, pal. Okay. Thank you to Jay, Danny, Nora, and Chris. Next up on this feed, it is Warren Sharp and Joe House. Love that podcast. This has been the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network.