The Ringer NFL Show - Jets Dysfunction Continues, and Eagles Make an OC Decision

Episode Date: January 30, 2026

Sheil is joined by The Ringer’s own Diante Lee to talk about the staff turmoil within the New York Jets organization, and analyze the Philadelphia Eagles’ selection of Sean Mannion as their new offensive coordinator. (00:00) Jets dysfunction and the Eagles’ new OC(1:37) The Jets’ staff turmoil(13:42) Eagles hire OC Sean Mannion Quit overspending on wireless with 50% off Unlimited premium wireless. Plans start at $15/month at mintmobile.com/RINGERNFL The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Sheil KapadiaGuest: Diante LeeProducer: Chris SuttonVideo Editor: Stefano SanchezProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Shield Capadia. Today we got a couple big news items we got to get to. One is with the New York Jets and the dysfunction around the New York Jets. What is happening there with Aaron Glenn and his coaching staff? And does this team have a long-term plan? We're going to talk about that. And then the Eagles finally filling their offensive coordinator vacancy hiring

Sean Mannion, a bit of an unknown from the Green Bay Packers, their quarterback's coach. Is this a smart hire? Is this a higher that's going to blow up in their face? We'll talk about all that. My guest today is the ringers Deontay Lee. Let's take a break. We'll come back with Deontay. The ringer NFL show is presented by Fanduel. Fan duels got it all. Same game parlay's quick bets for jumping in live and your way so you can build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on the NFL playoffs all month long. Download the Fandul or head to Fandul.com slash ringer NFL to get started. 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming.

Gambling problem. Call 1-800-G-houndler or visit RG-Halt.com. Call 1-88-787-8-9-77 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, we are back here on the Ringer NFL show with my friend, Deonté Lee, from the Ringer. We're taking a little spin around the NFL. I can't keep up with all the news. So we're going to get to some of the stuff that's been happening that we haven't talked about yet, Deontay. And let's start with the New York Jets.

I'm sorry, Jets fans. You're probably like, we don't need this attention right now. But there's some wild things going on with the New York Jets and their coaching staff. So a lot of this is from my friend, Zach Rosenblatt, from The Athletic. Last Thursday, Deontay, multiple coaches who thought they were coming back were actually fired. So they were let go. They're sitting there through the cycle. As all these other coaching staffs are being filled,

they think they're safe with the Jets. All of a sudden, Aaron Glenn says, nope, we're not going to keep you guys. So they do that. Offensive coordinator, he wants Tanner Engstrand, who is his past offensive coordinator, to stay on but not call plays.

He wants to hire a veteran coach like Frank Reich, or they reached out to John Gruden or somebody else. So he wants Engstrand to stay, but he doesn't want him to call plays, a demotion of sorts to which Engstrand says, thanks but no thanks mutual parting of ways so you have that and then on the defensive side of the ball he needs a new defensive coordinator he's talking to wink martindale former uh defensive coordinator in the nfl and then at michigan martindale thinks all right cool go to go to the jets

work for and glen has him in person and glen tells him yeah we want you but i'm going to call place which apparently martin dale did not know so instead martinale says no thanks i'm going to Jet say I'm going to hire Brian Duker from the Miami Dolphins, but Aaron Glenn is going to call plays. I saw you tweeting, Deonte, that this, I can't remember your exact words. So I won't put words in your mouth, but you are alarmed, it sounds like, by what's happening with the New York Jets. I think, to paraphrase, it was something along the lines of like, in terms of like the first 13 or so months on the job, it's hard to think of something going much worse than how it's been for Aaron Glenn, right? Like, some of this is.

is taking bad bets, right? And I'm not going to pretend as though he had all of the options at his ready. And this was totally something that only for him to, only him to blame, right? You have to choose the quarterbacks that are available. He tries to make a bet on Justin Field. Hey, get a guy in that's low cost, has started in the league before. That doesn't work out. The issue there is staying committed to a guy that is showing you that he wasn't the guy for as long as he did.

So that was part of the problem. And then you think about staffing, right? You make a move mid-season with your defensive coordinator. You guys sell about your defensive pieces. You send Sauce Gardner to Indianapolis. You send Quentin Williams to Dallas. And those were sensible moves in terms of setting up 2027 and beyond, right? I wouldn't even say for 2026, but really seven and beyond.

But that means that you're getting worse, right? The thing that is supposed to be his stamp, which is defense isn't improving at all. There's no market improvements. If anything, I would say, it looks even worse now than it did in the last year under Robert Salah and Jeff Oldrick, right, when they were just trying to hold that thing together. And then you get to this point where you're trying to demote your OC and now you ultimately have to part ways. You try to bring in a DC and then you're kind of undercutting him by saying, actually,

actually my head coach is going to call it the place, which means I got like, Wing Martindella's never signing up for that gig. He's never signing up for that gig. It's just all these things that are happening kind of in succession that make you ask, does Aaron Glenn, does this regime with he and Darren Moogie, like, do they actually have a firm grip of the wheel here? Or is this just more just jets and competence kind of infecting everybody in this process? Okay, so here's my question, because you just mentioned two aspects of the organization, coaching and front office. And my question, Deonte is, because they didn't fire

Glenn. I thought, you know, midway through the season, I thought they might just, this might be one and done. That's been happening more in the NFL. I thought he might be gone. But then they trade Quinn and Williams. They trade sauce gardener. And then the indication are, Glenn's going to come back, but we're going to kind of reshape how we view our organization.

So my question is, is this an organic tank? I don't know if that's a real thing or not or if I just made it out, you know, something you can go buy it, Whole Foods or whatever. Organic tank, Deonte,

because I'm looking at it saying they got those picks for 2027, which is supposed to be a great draft. And I know people say that. We'll see if it actually is going to be a great draft or not. But they're keeping Aaron Glenn.

It seems like they're letting him do whatever he wants with this coaching staff. He's got full autonomy. It's kind of a train. It seems like a train wreck from the outside, from the reporting. He looked completely overmatched last year as a head coach. There are no signs this offseason that suggests that it's going to be a lot better. And so I'm wondering if the front office is going, yeah, he could, you know, hang out, do whatever he wants here for the year. We can do whatever we want. We'll build through the draft. We're going to try to draft some good young players. We're going to avoid bad contracts with trades and free agency. He can try to win. This staff can try to win.

It's probably not going to matter because we all watched what it looked like last year. And then you know what? We can do a reset after next year. We'll fire Aaron Glenn after next year. We'll draft our quarterback next year and we'll try it over again with these young players. Is it possible that something like that is happening with the New York Jets? I think you're giving me an optimistic case that I can buy. Right. And I think that if you're laying this out, if you're really analyzing it, you would say, all right, Darren Mugie, Aaron Glenn, hire together, right? Your timelines are linked. So if you're giving your GM a long road, you're going to give your head coach a long road, in theory, right? Maybe, yeah, maybe. In theory, right? That's very much a theoretical thing.

They might disagree. They might disagree for sure. I think you look at the way that they traded away their most impactful defensive players in Quinaw and Cochino Williams and Sals Gardner midseason. That would also suggest that everybody is aware that 2026 is about as low stakes a season as there could be for any franchise in the NFL. So you understand that as well. I think the thing that's just been most concerning to me is kind of what we keep coming back to, which is does this guy who is making decisions in Aaron Glenn know what he is doing? Does he have a clear idea of how he wants to build the infrastructure of his staff, how they practice, how they play, how they game plan, how they want to approach decision-making in certain ways? And I would say outside of how well they played on special teams,

I don't think there was ever a single Sunday when I was going through power rankings and I had the Jets on TV where I felt like, oh, okay, this game let me know what an Aaron Glenn coach team is supposed to look like. I don't think we ever really left a week of football feeling that way about this team on either side of the ball. And you just never want to be in a position in your second year as a head coach where you're turning over both your coordinators, right? That is the telltale sign that somebody does not have a firm grab.

on what they're trying to do. We saw this in Tennessee with Brian Callahan, right? With all the changeover in the style of play, you know, the way that, how tense it seemed like Aaron Glenn was getting around the mid-season point when they're asking them about Justin Fields and asking them about the lack of a passing game. And it just feels like this thing is totally doomed for him to maybe get a third of the way through the 2026 season.

The team is losing. You excuse the coach, you dismiss the coach. You kind of play out the string. And now you're going to have a GM that's probably going to feel really safe because I did my job in getting us this war chest of all these picks that we can use to turn over this roster, right? So if I'm Aaron Glenn, I am very much stressed out. I don't feel like, oh, 2026 is and anything can happen type of year. This 100% has to be a, we can go 5 and 12, we can go 6 and 11, but we've got to look like the way the Saints looked in the second half of the

season in 2025, where we are very competitive in our division. We're winning games or competitive in games, we shouldn't be by conventional wisdom. I just don't know if I see it when you look at their quarterback situation and when you look at this defense right now. It sounds crazy, but when you were throwing out five and 12, six and 11, I'm like, I don't see it. That sounds like it's out of reach. That feels like it's out of reach. And we're in the end of January.

I mean, they could make a lot of moves, but I think it could be one of those things. And I don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt for anything. They've been a train wrecked franchise under Woody Johnson. There's no doubt about it. Jets fans feel like punching. bags. I get it. I feel for Jets fans. But the organization doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. But I could see this being a situation where Mugi, the DM or the GM is in the ear of ownership saying, here are my ideas for how to build it. We're going to trade these guys. We're going to get picks.

We'll explain it to Aaron. He'll be on board for now. And it kind of doesn't matter. He's got no choice. Yeah, he's got no choice. There's no choice in a matter. Right. So, man, I just have a hard time seeing Aaron Glenn coaching the Jets. in 2027. I hope he proves me wrong. I hope he does what you said. And some of the moves I actually understand them. He wants to call the defense because the defense stunk last year and he feels like he's coaching for his job. I get that just, you had a lot of time to figure this out. You weren't competing for a playoff spot. You want to change offensive court. You want to change offensive play colors. I get that too. You had time to figure that out. You should have had a plan. You should have

been ready. Season ends. Hey, I want this guy. I want this guy. Here's what we're going to do. It's three weeks after their season end, they start looking for an offensive coordinator. I mean, come on. That is the dysfunction that has permeated throughout the New York Jets for a very long time and why it's really been hard to take them seriously. So I'm sorry, Jets fans. 2026, I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel. Watch a lot of college football. Read the new and improved ringer draft guide. Check out Deontes takes on the prospects this year. And next year, root for some young players. And then maybe in 2020. you can figure something out, but I know you don't want to hear that because you had reset after reset

after reset. Unfortunately, I feel like that's what it looks like right now. This is unavoidable. It's unavoidable. There's no way. There's nothing they could actually do this offseason to actually make them competitive in the AFC. Anyway, that I can see. Unless some quarterback lost their mind and said, I want to be traded specifically to the Jets for those first round picks that they just acquired. There's no way that a quick turnaround is coming. And I think that the last piece I would I would say, and this is really what concerns me about Aaron Glenn, whether he's calling the defense or not. You looked at guys that were good under Robert Sala and Jeff Ulbric get markedly worse. I think that was probably the thing that was most concerning.

The fact that Quincy Williams was kind of being pulled off the field. When I was watching Quincy Williams and he was playing under Robert Sala, that looked like one of the best inside linebackers in football, there's no way that that guy goes from being at that level to barely playing for the next head coach. And that's not a poor reflection on the development of play under this regime. I think something has got to change in a major way if we want to see, we want to see Aaron Glenn last past the 2026 season. Hell, past the midway point of the 26 season. This one definitely feels like we are headed towards an ugly end in New York for him. A Callahan.

Let's start calling it Calhian. Because we all knew kind of what was going to happen. Immediately. That's what this feels like. We all know what's going to happen with Aaron Glenn here. All right. We'll see what happens with the Jets, the rest of this offseason. Let's take a break.

We're going to come back and talk about. the Philadelphia Eagles. This episode is brought to you by Mint Mobile. This January, quit overspending on wireless with 50% off unlimited premium wireless. Plans start at $15 a month at mintmobile.com slash ringer NFL. Limited time offer, upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 months, plan required $15 per month equivalent, taxes and fees extra initial plan term only over 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy.

Capable device is required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. Seamintmobile.com. All right, we are back here on the Ringer NFL show. Got some breaking news on Thursday that the Eagles finally landed their new offensive coordinator, Sean Mannion. Deonti, I feel like I have to give his bio out because I feel like a lot of people are probably like me, like, wait, 2015, I remember coming out of Oregon State, spent some years in the

league as a backup. Yeah, he spent nine years in the league as a backup. And it's only coached for two years, two years with the Green Bay Packers, first an offensive assistant, then the quarterbacks coach. And so the Eagles did this, hey, we're going to cast a wide net. Maybe we didn't get our first or second option. We're going to look for the best candidate. And this is the guy they land on. And this is win now time for the Eagles. Howie Roseman said as much after the season. So what do you make of this hire Sean Manion coming over from Green Bay as their quarterbacks coach. And now he's tasked with get this offense right, right away, because we're trying to get back to the Super Bowl. What do you think? I think the most optimistic case that you can make is that

Philadelphia is doing what it always likes to do with this coaching hires, which is to make a very inspired off the beaten path. We went through and did this thorough process. I'm interviewing a bunch of candidates. We did background on all these candidates. And we found that. this guy that nobody in the NFL was ready to give this responsibility to. But look at us, Philadelphia Eagles, we're ahead of the curve once again, right? I cannot wait until they make a reference to Andy Reid being a quarterback's coach under Holmgren and Green Bay, however many decades ago. And he didn't have play calling experience either.

And then that guy came in and revolutionized both the West Coast offense and the Philadelphia Eagles as a franchise, right? I would not be surprised if you hear that as a selling point. And there are some ways in which I can buy into this being a good idea, right? Like, I think that when we talked, we talked earlier in the day and off-camera about things like having a guy that fits the profile of a team that needs the most out of its quarterback, right? I think that getting a former quarterback, even if he doesn't have play-calling experience, is the right move in that instance. Go get a guy who's been in the room who has sat in Jalen Hertz's seat, who understands how a quarterback sees the game and can communicate to, with him in a way that he would understand.

He would also, I think, take the last two years of Jordan Love's career once Sean Manion became a quarterback's coach. And you would say, this is a guy who was clearly helping to push his quarterback to push the ball deep downfield, to take chances vertically, to be able to read out progressions aggressively, to understand coverage and know when you can push the ball downfield. And all of those things, I think, are real pluses on Mannion's resume, right? I think to me, the only real hang-up I have really does come back to whether or not a coordinator that doesn't have play-calling experience and has not even had a coaching job for a half-decade yet. Is he going to have the gravitas in a room where there is going to be as much internal pressure as there will be in Philadelphia, right?

What's going to happen if he and Jalen genuinely do see something differently? what's going to happen if Nick Siriani wants the offense to look a certain way? How much of a thumb is he going to put on the scale? And does Sean Mannion, from a personality perspective, have enough gumption to be able to stand up in those rooms and say, no, I was hired here to do this task. You asked me to come here to help develop our offense and get the most out of it. This is my vision for how we best accomplish that.

And whether or not they're going to be receptive to it when that happens, right? So it's just so many things that I think are up in the air. Doesn't mean that it's going to be a bad hire. It doesn't mean for sure it's going to be a knockout. But I think that we're probably not going to know what kind of office coordinator this guy even is until about six to eight weeks in the season. And for a team, like you said, that wants to win right right now,

that feels like a very tricky proposition to try to thread the needle on. It's boom or bust. It's high variant. It's interesting. It absolutely is interesting. More so than hiring, you know, kind of one of those veteran OCES who are like, wait a minute, it's Matt Nagy.

He's the guy who's going to elevate this office. offense in 2026. So I like the risk that they're taking here. The ways you outlined in which it goes wrong, you hit the nail on the head. I mean, first of all, we have no idea if he can do the job or not. He has not done it. He has not called plays. He has not schemed up an offense on his own. He's completely unproven. And I think the Eagles went into this process hoping to get someone who was proven, who they could say, this guy has a resume. He's going to come in. He's done it before. But once those guys were off the table, the Mike McDaniel, the Todd Monkin, whoever else that maybe they had on their list initially, now you had to decide, do we want to go with someone

who's done it before, but might not have been great doing it? Or do we want to just take a risk on someone? And so I applaud, you know, I do applaud them for saying, let's take a risk. We did our research. The other thing I like Deonti is that he doesn't have any connection to Nick Seriani or Shail and her. Because I'm, you hear me, you're probably tired of hearing me, ripping coaches all the time. Oh, he hired this guy because they were drinking buddies in college. Oh, he hired this guy because they were both GA's at this school. Oh, he hired this guy because they were both quality control coaches. And what do I always say? I say, cast a white net, look around, try to find the best candidate. Don't just hire someone because you knew him 10 years ago.

And as far as I can tell, Jalen Hertz has no relationship with Sean Mannion. Nick Siriani has no relationship with Sean Mannion. Howie Roseman has no relationship with Sean Mannion. So at least that can indicate to us that they actually did try. Now, whether they succeed or not, I don't know, but they tried. And the other point you made is a big one, which is that they need someone to come in and say, your offense didn't work last year. It hasn't worked for the large part of two years to pass the game specifically. And there are things we need to change. And Jalen, I know you don't like to do certain things, whether it's thrown over the middle, whether it's getting under center and running play action. And Nick, I know you have your

certain ideas for how the offense should run. I want to work with you guys. I'm open to your ideas. But at the end of the day, I was hired to do a certain job. And these are the things I actually think we need to implement to be a better offense. And to your point, does he

have the personality to be able to get that across to those guys without them saying, no, I don't know. That's not how we do stuff here. We're going back to how we do it. We're going back to what we're comfortable with without rubbing people the wrong way. Like the personality aspect to this, I feel like it's a huge, huge deal.

I'm with you 100%. And I think if you're Sean Mannion, you have to go in and pull up a reel of all those big time throws that you saw from Jordan Love last year. And you bring up the fact that, hey, not only were we doing this, we were not turning the ball over at a high clip when we were pushing the ball down the field. I think that's the way you probably get all parties involved, right? As you come in and say, hey, you guys are fifth in the league in interception rate last year. You want to know who was right behind you?

us in Green Bay. And we pushed the ball downfield way more often than you guys are willing to. We called plays with much more aggression, at least in the passing game, as you did in Philadelphia this past year. And you can also say, hey, Nick, I can scratch your back again. Look at our tape in Green Bay. We were also running the ball on early downs. We also had opportunities where we could have been aggressive, but we trusted that Josh Jacobs could handle the heaviest load on our offense.

And we ran behind him in our young offensive line. and we trusted those guys, maybe in instances where we knew we were going to take some criticism for not relentlessly pushing the ball downfield. So I do think, again, if you're trying to pitch this optimistically, there are a lot of avenues in which you can look at it and say, hey, what they were doing in Green Bay in a lot of ways, at least for me, I would say personally,

it's kind of like the platonic ideal of what you should be doing with Philadelphia's offensive talent, which is spread guys out. You can get those light boxes to run into, and then once you do get teams that want to bleak, you that want to play single high, that want to play man coverage. Now we can get those deep downfield play action concepts over the middle of the field to wide receivers who are going to be running away from defenders

because we usually have better guys than defenses due to covering them. I think that in a lot of ways that is exactly what you should be seeking out. But I think that brings up something that we haven't really touched on yet. And what's most important in this is this Sean Mannion bringing over Matt LaFleur's offense. is this Sean Mannion creating his own hybrid offense based on his time as a player and coach, or is this him walking in Nick Siriani doing to Sean Mannion what Sean McBay did after Brandon Saylee left

and he brought in Rahim Morris as a defensive coordinator where you say, hey, this was our book last year, congratulations on the gig. You figure out what you're going to do out of this playbook and this playbook only and make it work, right? And if that's the case, then I think you do immediately leave all those optimistic selling points that I gave you, and you start wondering if it's Nick Siriani's deal

and we're just putting another guy under the headset, how long until we're back to that nightmare scenario where Nick Siriani feels like, okay, I've got to start talking about how we're going to run the ball. Now I'm going to start making bigger decisions on third down and in the red zone. Oh, now we're hearing rumors about Nick Siriani is making most of the play calls in a game situation, period. Or you get the, oh, man, your officer coordinator is going from being on the sideline

to being in the booth. And we've got to ask questions like, I wonder why that is, right? So those are all the ways in which you can go sideways. I do think for me being a generally pessimistic person, I want to try to walk that back a little bit and really focus on all the ways that it can work. Because I do think that there's a genuine upshot. And if it does go perfectly, this is also a guy that you might be able to keep for two seasons, which I think is the best move.

You win. John Manning is great, but he's also very young and early in his coaching career. you might get a year two, a year three with him as your offensive coordinator if you're successful enough to be able to hold this band together. He's really crossed paths with a lot of coaches when you look at his playing days and then his coaching days, Sean McVeigh, Kevin O'Connell, Pete Carroll, Gary Kubiak, Clint Kubiak, Kevin Stefansky, Matt LaFleur, obviously, like, there's a lot of people there where a lot of those, Pete Carroll is more, you know, just, hey, communicating to players

getting through to people. But the offensive scheme with the other guys, it's like these are some of the most respected guys in the NFL or the most respected schemers of the last five to 10 years. So you're so right. It does bring up a curious point to me. I think that you pointed this out. I know I've heard it from our buddies that cover the Eagles elsewhere.

Nick Siriani kind of has a little bit of a thing of like all those offensive masterminds with all their complicated play calls. But every time they play against me, they lose. And you guys say that all we do is the most basic things in the world. I just wonder what that dynamic is like. Maybe this is one of those situations where Howard Roseman and Jeffrey Lurie have a lot of admiration for the way that things are done off of that coaching tree. And maybe you're dealing with the head coach who might not be as embracing of it. And again, we're right back to all these potential friction points where things might go sideways.

Well, listen, I don't think, you know, Nick Seriani did the press release for it or whatever, whatever they posted on social as someone who has just previously covered and now followed this team for a long time. I don't think, and this isn't reported. I don't think that Nick Siriani is the one going out saying, hey, Sean Mannion is the guy we should bring in. I think they interviewed guys who maybe Nick liked a little bit, but Howie Roseman and Jeffrey Lurie, this is a front office centric organization. This is not a coach-centric organization. And I would imagine that they are the ones who said, let's talk to people, let's call people, who could we be missing out on? Then they bring him in. And obviously, if Nick Seriani says, like, I can't work with, you know, I can't work with this guy.

and we'll never get along. Howie Rose meant smart enough to be like, all right, I'm not going to pair these two people together. But as long as you get the little seal of approval, and I think Nick Seriani is smart enough to know how the organization is structured that he says, okay, you know, I got along with this guy. He's got some good ideas. Let's try to make it work in 2026 because that's my best chance for winning big again,

my best chance for keeping this job for a very long time. But yes, there are some very interesting dynamics at play with this hire. and with the Eagles. And listen, I thought about this. There's a chance that at this time next year, Deonti, I keep forgetting his name. That's how I'm watching of it. Sean Manny.

Sean Mangan is going to have to match wits with like Mike McDonald in an NFC playoff game. You're going to have to see Ben Johnson on the road in a playoff game. It gets tricky. It can definitely get tricky. You might have to see Chris Shula, you know, in a playoff environment, right? on the road potentially.

So yeah, it's not, I don't think that this was one of those situations where you could have tried to spin yourself around in a way to make you feel good about, oh, you know, we brought in Jim Bob Cooter and just because he knows the offense because he's running that. I'll be honest.

If it was one of those guys, I would have been like, Matt Nagy and now you're trying to tell yourself, oh, you know, Super Bowl, pedigree, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, work with Patrick Mahomes. Like, we don't have to try to switch ourselves and knots to make those things work. I do think from that perspective, this probably is a win for,

process. This is a win for not panicking, right? When you don't get a Mike McDaniel, this is a win for not panicking. When you don't get your hands on those top tier A list coordinators, this is a great move for let's stay the course and trust that we're going to land the guy we're supposed to land. And I think that's exactly what happened for them. And it's a win for me for team content because it's a more interesting higher than some of those other names you just mentioned. All right, his name is Deontalee. I'm Sheila Capadio. Thank you to everyone for listening. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing Stefano Sanchez on video and additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna, Ram Gopal.

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