The Ringer NFL Show - Jonathan Taylor Trade Value, Jordan Love Hype, and the Best Defense in the NFL

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz discuss the trade demands for Jonathan Taylor and the Jordan Love hype. Then, they recap Episode 3 of HBO’s 'Hard Knocks,' featuring the Jets, and Steven crowns the best defense in the NFL. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Right now on the Ringer game on fee and all throughout the entire month of August, the East Coast bias boys are getting you ready to bet the NFL this season. We're going through each and every single division and revealing our favorite futures, predicting division winners, and even giving you some award winners. Do we think the Kansas City Chiefs will repeat or will they be the throne? Tune in now to find out on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Princeati.

am joined as always by Stephen Ruiz. Stephen, happy Wednesday. Say hello to everyone. Hi, everyone. I believe you are coming over the airwaves from Green Bay, Wisconsin. Is that correct? Yeah, we're on location. My first time in Green Bay.

I'm going to leave it at that. I'm not going to elaborate. I'll elaborate. I'll spill the beans. Stephen said on our pre-production call that he is in need of a vegetable. So if anyone has any tips on where the man can get something green and leafy in the beautiful state of Wisconsin and the fabulous town of Green Bay, city of Green Bay,

that would be much appreciated because we've got a packed show. Got to get that nutrition up. That's right. We're going to talk a little Jonathan Taylor, talk a little Jordan Love, since you are in Green Bay. A lot of Jordan Love hype. Curious to see if you were going to add to that. and then we'll do a little hard knocks.

You have a couple other things. Get out of here. Hopefully Stephen finds a vegetable. So let's kick it off because on Monday, I think this has been sort of the biggest NFL news story of the week. Jonathan Taylor, who has been on the pub list, has not been practicing in Indianapolis and is disgruntled with his contract status.

Obviously, we've talked about all of the back and forth with Jim Mersey putting his foot in his mouth and what's going to happen there. The Colts granted him permission to seek a trade. Now, Stephen Holder, who covers Indianapolis, reported that the Colts are seeking a first round pick, which we'll see about that. That's definitely a factor in this story.

There have been a few teams that have been reported to be looking into it, including the dolphins, a little bit of speculation that maybe the chargers might make sense, although I think the reporting around that is a little bit less substantial. what do you think is going to happen here, Stephen, the likelihood of a trade, who might make sense, what's going to happen to Jonathan Taylor?

It's hard to say. The logical side of my brain says he's going to stay in Indianapolis. No one is going to give up that value. And I think Jim Mersey is the type of owner who won't budge on things as evidenced by the contract negotiations with Jonathan Taylor or the lack thereof because that's what's been reported. is like, I think Stephen Holder from the athletic said, the Colts haven't even offered Jonathan Taylor anything.

It's not like a thing where they're not meeting his demands. They're not even offering him a contract. I think they want to see him play under this new regime. I think they want to see him play after the injury. So I think we're at a stalemate. What I think eventually happens, though, because I do think we're like past the point of no return at this. Like, it seems like Jonathan Taylor, like that bridge is burned with,

with ownership. I think what happens is the asking price comes down and Taylor eventually gets dealt for like a day to pick. Maybe. Wow. But like that's the only thing I can see that that would happen. And it's like in a vacuum, I think he would get traded.

But like I look around the league and the landscape of the NFL and I can't pick up, I can't think of a team that has the assets that has the money, the willingness to pay him that will make that trade where it makes sense. Like I can't think of one. Like even Miami. that's a risky move for that team with where their salary cap situation is at. So I don't know.

If I was Indianapolis, I would just pay them. I think if you're in that position where you're starting over with a new coach, a new quarterback, you have cap space. You're not going to contend this year anyway. Like it's going to be,

it's a long shot that you make the playoffs. Why not just front-loaded deal? Pay your best player, pay your most recognizable player right now, and then have a cheaper contract down the line. Like years three through five might be a little cheaper. I think they have the financial wiggle room to do that right now.

It just doesn't make sense from their perspective because I think without Jonathan Taylor, this offense doesn't make as much sense. And we've talked about the Colts like as a sleeper playoff contender. Maybe they make the wild card. Maybe they challenge for the AFC sales. Without Jonathan Taylor, that's off the table for me. Like I don't think that's even a possibility. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I agree with you that I think there's absolutely no chance that they're getting a first round pick for him. I mean, just like, be real. This whole thing started as sort of a referendum on running back value and came from a place of the cult feeling like, we're not going to overextend ourselves for this position that's been so greatly devalued. Then they turn around and say, we want extreme value in return for our running back and we won't pay. And it just seems a little bit ridiculous to me. Where I disagree is, and I mean, I don't know, there are, there are, behaving a little bit recklessly, it seems.

So maybe you're right that they would just take a lower offer if it feels completely beyond repair. But I think they'd be out of their gourds to do that. I mean, this team, Anthony Richardson's probably of the rookie quarterbacks, has been the most encouraging and exciting through this point in camp in the preseason. That's how I feel. It seems like some of the passing concerns. concerns. Obviously, you're not going to totally alleviate, but it seems like he's in a good place there and he's really exciting, really athletic, looking good so far in the offense. Jonathan Taylor is a really important part of making that work, or at least a good running game, right?

Especially coming from where you were last season with what happened to that offensive line, you want someone dynamic and experienced and productive, which Jonathan Taylor, when he's been healthy, has absolutely been. you need that person. For the Colts to say, okay, we can't get a one, but we just don't think that we can figure this out personality-wise. So we're going to take a two in change or a three or whatever it is.

Even a two, I'm a little bit skeptical if you're still going to have to pay Jonathan Taylor. I mean, his salary that a team would have to take on is $4.3 million in base, but you figure that any, agreement would be contingent on coming to some sort of deal for an extension or whatever it is to up his pay because that's what he cares about right now. You're doing all that and saying, yep, Zach Moss, Evan Hull, who we drafted in the fifth

round, it's going to be fine. I just, that seems like malpractice to me. And to do that for something like a second round pick in return, I just, I think they would be I mean, if I were a Colts fan, I would be like burning things to the ground over that. I think to use your terminology out of their gourd, I think Jim Ursay is first team out of their gourd. Out of his gourd.

Yeah, so I could still see it happening. It seems like he has more. He's the Aaron Donald of unhinged behavior. Just pencil him in on the team before the season even starts. But it seems like he has. he's more involved, I would say, now. Like, just based on his comments in the media, since the Carson Wentz thing, really,

the Carson Wentz, like, failed experiment. It seems like he's had more say. It seemed like he was the one that was really, who had final say on which quarterback they ended up drafting. And then now he's been out in public talking about this Jonathan Taylor thing. He has not shied away from it. So I can see this being a bit of an ego thing for him. But, like,

I think the mistake Erce's making is he just hired this guy from Philadelphia and he sees how Philadelphia kind of treats their running backs and he saw them have success no matter who was back to like Miles Sanders was obviously the lead guy but they just let him walk and I think he's taking the wrong

lesson from that and that Eagle's offense worked not only because the running game and the run designs but also because they had those two guys on the outside the receivers Devante Smith and AJ Brown who could create explosive plays. The Colts don't have that.

Where are your explosive plays coming from if you don't have Jonathan Taylor? Jonathan Taylor! Right. That's the only, like, I think the problem with the discord, there's a lot of problems with the discourse on running back value. But I think the problem is we kind of

approach each case, each individual case, as if like it's the same for every team. Like a running back could matter more to the Colts than it matters to another team. And in this case, that is clearly, Like, that's clearly what's happening here. Jonathan Taylor, like, you need Jonathan Taylor for this offense to be viable.

Otherwise, you're not going to have big plays. Otherwise, the run game that you will rely on even more if you're not getting exposed to plays in the passing game, like, won't be as consistently good. Jonathan Taylor, if you look at the advanced metrics, he's like one of the best in rushing yards over expectation. So that goes beyond, like, his blocking and what defenses are doing, how they're loading the box. Like, he's giving you extra yards.

And they can't afford to give up those extra yards. And that's what they seemingly are willing to do. And I think it's a big mistake. Playing some brinksmanship with that, which would be a really, really bad outcome. The other thing is that I think when we have talked a little bit about the running back dynamics, the point that I always sort of come back to is that the conversation is largely a supply side conversation, where the reason that they're so devalued is because teams believe that they can get one pretty much anywhere.

and very cheaply. It's not because they're not valuable on the field. It's just that teams believe they don't have to pay very much for that value. It's August 23rd, though, while we're recording this. I mean, this would be even a slightly different conversation if we were having it before, say, like, Dalvin Cook signed. And I don't think, you know, Dalvin Cook is not replacing Jonathan Taylor for the, for the Colts.

But as an example, when some of those guys are still floating around. round, maybe you can talk about it. But it's too late. It's too late to get anyone else. So that makes Jonathan Taylor an inherently more valuable player to you because even though he plays a position where teams believe, and probably rightly so, that in a later round of a draft or whatever, they can find someone and get that person as long as they're in a good situation to be playing productive snaps at the running back position, they're not able

to do that anymore. So it's either make it work with Jonathan Taylor or you're just not going to have that. And congratulations, you might have a day two pick or a couple of them to work with next year, but that's next year. And when we're talking about the first year of Anthony Richardson, a year where they're trying to get an offensive line that really underperformed, but that they have a financial commitment to that's going to last this year and beyond back functioning, the only team that Jonathan Taylor might be worth something like a day one pick to is the Indianapolis Colts. The Colts should trade a first round pick to themselves for Jonathan Taylor. You know what, honestly, I do, look, I don't mean to make light of this, but like Jim Mersey's whale died, which is very sad.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you got to say that sentence over again. His whale, he has a whale. Do you not have a whale? Wait, am I about to break this story to you that Jim Merce while refusing to pay Jonathan Taylor any money, spent $20 million to relocate an orca from the Miami Seaquarie. Who tragically passed. I also, I'm like a huge animal lover. So I'm laughing at this because the story is inherently ridiculous and I think we can all agree with this. It is genuinely very, very sad. Yes, it is. Jim or say being involved in anything just makes it weird. But maybe he, you know, he's in his feels a little, understandably so.

There could be an overture of some kind. Jonathan Taylor just says, I'm very sorry. I'm committed to healthy sea life. Get together and work it out, boys. That's all. I agree. That's all I got. I agree. The whale story just blew my

I didn't, I knew like some of the details. I didn't know Ursay was in that deep. I didn't know he was putting up 20 mil. Well, in his his explanation, which like, to be fair, I think is like the right approach to, I imagine that if I had the amount of money that Jim Ursay has, I would think a proper justification for just like using it for all sorts of things is like, I can and I want to and I think it'll help. That's what he said. He was just like, I've got the money. I want to help the whale,

so I'm going to do it. Understandably, if you're Jonathan Taylor and the guy turns around and is like, well, if we live or die, I don't think anyone's going to care if Jonathan Taylor's on the cold. You're a little bit like where some of that attitude when it applies to me. Say that same sentence, Jim Mersey, but take out the whale and put in Jonathan Taylor. And it still applies. It's still a good sentence. This is, I mean, this story was a lot funnier before the, before the whale passed.

She's 56 years old. It's crazy. Well, see, that's the difference. The whales have a longer shelf life than running backs, apparently. All right. We're going to end this conversation before something bad happens. Any other teams

that could, in theory, come out of the woodwork, if the price did get lower. Chargers? Yeah, I mean, but they're refusing to pay their running back right now, so that doesn't, I don't know if that would work out the way Jonathan Taylor wants it to happen. That's the thing is like, it just makes sense for the Colts for Jonathan Taylor to be there. To be on the Colts.

I mean, I can't even think of another team. Jerry Jones, who, you know, probably second team all pro out of his gourd, I feel good about our running position if we didn't add anybody is a quote he gave the other day. So it seems like the Cowboys would not be particularly interested. Jets and the Pats obviously just did their deals

at the position. It seems like a slim list. I think the timing is what's making this so hard to come up with a perfect match. Like you said, like it's August 23rd. The season is two weeks. away. Like, the teams are set.

The, the, the offenses have been designed around certain players. Like, it's too late. Like, dropping Jonathan Taylor into your offense right now, just like, you've got to change everything. Unless you're the Colts. I don't know. Just pay him. Just pay him. Just figure it out. Just figure it out. Give him a little bit more money.

Figure it out. I mean, also, like, maybe on some level, I would imagine they're expecting that he's not going to be flooded with amazing offers. And perhaps that lessens the ask somewhat and they can come together. Again, we're talking about this as if it exists in a rational universe. And it's possible that might not exactly be the case. But I think that is certainly what makes the most football sense. I would like to see him in Miami.

I will say that. I don't know, like, if they have the resources, if they have the assets to kind of take on Jonathan Taylor and give them what he wants. But I think you drop Jonathan Taylor into that offense. I think it gives them something else. Like it gives them, I don't,

like it's not going to just improve the run game necessarily because we know how much goes into that. Like you need an offensive line and that's a concern in Miami. But I think he is better at certain types of runs like downhill runs compared to like your typical Shanahan back, your typical McDaniel back, I guess we can say now, where it's just like a speed guy

who you want to get on the edge, you want to run the outside zone and get them around the corner. I think Jonathan, like, I don't know if that meshes well with what they do in the passing game with Tyree Kill and Jalen Waddle.

Those are the guys that kind of threaten the perimeter. So I think if you add in Jonathan Taylor, who can do damage in between the tackles and pair him with those two guys, it just makes that offense a little bit more dynamic. And that offense, like, is our already dynamic as it is.

So I think he could kind of provide what Christian McCaffrey did to the first, 49ers. Not to that extent because Christian McCaffrey is obviously like basically another wide receiver out there. But like Christian McCaffery's explosiveness in the run game, the types of runs they could call with him, I think that would apply to Miami if they got Jonathan Taylor. I doubt they're willing to shell out for it, like at the level that they would need to do. But even just the fact that the dolphins are, are, seem like the most interested team, or at least have been reported as the team that's,

sniffing around in the most significant way is interesting to me just because it does seem like he would be that kind of downhill guy for them, which is not traditionally what we've thought of as the bread and butter of that run game stemming from Shanahan and under McDaniel.

But we've seen Shanahan start to move away from just the outside zone stuff a little bit. And it would be interesting to see if Mike McDaniel kind of follow suit just because it seems like a reaction to how defenses play them. So even if they don't get something done,

I do think it's kind of meaningful and interesting that the dolphins have been among the most interested teams and Jonathan Taylor. Okay, I said we were going to stop talking about this like four minutes ago. So let's talk about Jordan Love. But first, we'll take a quick break.

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$10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook. fandwell.com. All right, we are back. It really seems like the Jordan Love hype train is leaving the station. And you, Stephen Ruiz, are in Green Bay.

So I want to know if you are on it. Yeah, I was on it. And I'm kind of lucky because I set this all up. Like I asked them to talk to Jonathan. Sorry, I just said Jonathan Taylor. Jordan Love. I was planning on writing about him like in April because I watched it like that Eagles game. I was like, hold up.

This guy can play. Like this guy is actually pretty good and maybe we're too low on the Packers. So this has like been in the works for a while. And then like the last two weeks, he's obviously done so well in preseason. And now the hype, like the hype train has left the station. But yeah, I'm on it. And I have a front row seat on it. I'll say that.

And talking to him, I think the locker room is on the Jordan Love Hype train. The thing that stood out to me the most, like talking to players, Aaron Jones and AJ Dylan specifically, they love Jordan Love in that locker room. The thing they were saying is, like, everyone wants to just block for him. You would expect to hear that from an offensive line, but the running backs were saying everyone in the locker room just wants him to do well and they're willing to do whatever it takes.

If it's blocking whatever they're asked to do to make sure that he does well. And I asked them why, and they're just like his approach to the game, like how we see him prepared, like just how he gets on with everyone in the locker room, If there were any questions about leadership and his ability to, like, command the locker room in the same way that Aaron Rogers did, well, not in the same way. But in similar ways, like, they were answered for me. And now it comes down to on-field play. And, like, so far, what we've seen through two weeks, the on-field product is very good. And the thing, it's not like the wow plays.

It's not like the arm talent displays. It's the, like, the dorky stuff, like the getting through your progressions on a quick game concept in an instant. and the ball's out by the time your back foot hits on your drop. And I asked, like, Adam Stenevich and the offense coordinator was, like, you watched the first play of the Bengals game. It's like a routine concept,

and Jordan Love goes from one to two to three in an instant. The ball comes out, and they pick up like seven yards on first down. Not a huge play, really. But, like, Jordan Love wasn't making that play two years ago. He wasn't making that play necessarily last year. And I asked Adam Stenevich,

like, do you think Jordan Love would have made the play? that play two years ago? And he's like, no, that's not happening. But like, that's the strides. Those are the strides he's made over the last year and a half. And Jordan Love himself said, I don't think I would have made that play like that. He said a big thing with him, this offseason was timing and footwork and kind of syncing things up. And that was always like an Aaron Rogers thing. And I think Jordan Love, he obviously isn't going to get to Aaron Rogers level this year. But he's getting like, he's getting up there. And I think he's like, he's going to be able to do the small

stuff well. And if he's able to do that and give us those displays of arm talent and playmaking, I think this offense is going to be a lot better than people think. I was going to ask you, you mentioned the play against the Bengals. I was going to ask you what the single most impressive thing you've seen him

do was. Is it stuff like that or is there something else? No, there was also, there was a play later in that drive against the Bengals. It's been on all over Twitter where he misses a throw. It's like an overrout on third down, the tight ends wide open. Love tries to do a no look pass to hold a defender in the middle of the field,

and he like sails the throw. And then he came back the next week. The touchdown he threw to Jaden Reed was like a similar situation, a similar route, and there was a defender in the thing. He had to look off the defender and make the throw. And this time he made it, and I asked him about that play. And he told me it was about confidence. Like he didn't know if the throw was there against the bangles.

He was worried about it and like his mechanics were off. but his ability to fix that in an instant was very impressive and that's another thing that Packers players were talking about, his ability to bounce back from a mistake. And both AJ Dillon and Aaron Jones cited the start of last week's game

when they had the botched snap. New England recovers the fumble. And it's like, oh, like a young quarterback he could really go downhill from here, but no, love comes out the next drive and just goes right down the field. And it ends with that, touchdown play I was just talking about. So he's a resilient guy and I think you've had to

be resilient with the way his career started. So all of like the boxes that I want it checked off before I fully committed to the Jordan Love hype train have been checked off for me after this visit. I mean, both the preseason games you saw him get get better pretty quickly as he got more reps. The Bengals game, I think he started off. He missed a couple throws. I think you were talking about one to the tight end. That could have been chunk plays. And that and he leads a touchdown drive that ends with a Romeo Dobbs touchdown on a crossing route.

And then the Patriots game, they had the Center QB Exchange malfunction. I think they held them scoreless for two drives. That's a good defense, right? That's a New England defense that we're expecting to be pretty good. Third series, he comes back,

93-yard touchdown drive, ends with the play you mentioned, finishes 5 of 8 for 84. the interesting thing is that if something similar plays out over the course of the regular season, that's probably looking pretty good for them because this is a team that doesn't play any of last year's playoff teams until week seven. And even that game was against the Vikings. Before Thanksgiving, the Vikings and the Chargers are the only two playoff teams from last year that they're going to go against. So the Packers, and I mean, look, that's not.

not that's a shorthand. That's not everything. There will be teams that surprise us, obviously, teams that didn't make the playoffs last year that ended up being a lot better this year. But if this Packers team hits its stride in the second half of the year, that's when they're really going to need to be firing on all cylinders. And it seems like Jordan Love has a pretty good chance to do that because it seems like even if things are not perfect, and there are certainly things where they're still a little bit messy. I mean, it's not just that he's an experienced quarterback. Their past catching group, right, is all really young.

So you've got a lot of young players on this offense. But if they really do click later in the year, I mean, do you think it's possible that they could be pushing the Lions? Yeah, I mean, a couple weeks ago, I think I picked them to win the NFC North. So I'm more confident in that pick after talking to people about Georgia. already pitched them to win the NFC north there. I thought we ended on the Lions as the front runners. No, no.

We did the bold predictions. The takes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. Yes. That was in there. But I also asked about the nature of the offense, like how it will change now that Aaron Rogers is gone. And we talked about this late last year,

I think. I think I was floating out the idea that they should just bench Aaron Rogers and start Jordan Love and start the era. Because they could get back to like Matt LaFlor's typical offense, the offense that he ran before he got here before he made the concessions for Aaron Rogers, who likes to be in the gun, he likes to have control at the line of scrimmage. And when I was like kind of doing research before this trip, I noticed that Jordan Love is like really, really, really good from under center.

Like it was like 0.5 EPA per play, which is a crazy number. Crazy. Like double what Patrick Mahomes averages. And I asked him about that. I asked Stenevich if like we were going to see more under center stuff. I mean, obviously he was hesitant to, like, give me the details, but he hinted at, yes, there was going to be less shotgun and less RPO, specifically. And there was going to be more marrying of, like, the under center run game

and the passing concepts that you see out of that. And I asked Jordan Love about his comfort level, because Aaron Rogers is on record saying, I like to play from the gun. He's six, and he even said, like, I'm a shorter quarterback. I'm 6-2. It just allows me to see the field better. Jordan Love is 6-4. And I asked him about his comfort level from under center compared to shotgun because obviously in college, all he did was in the gun the whole time at Nevada.

And he said it was something he worked on from day one. And it was such a struggle. Like the footwork was so bad from day one. But at this point, he's like really, really comfortable. And you could see it on film. Even like the Chiefs game, he did pretty well. Like the Chiefs start two years ago, I thought he was pretty good at it. So I think this offense could look a lot different than it did last year.

And I think the changes will be for the better. Obviously, Aaron Rogers is a better quarterback than Jordan Love. And it's a significant gap. I'm not going to deny that. But I think Jordan Love in this offense could be better than Aaron Rogers was in last year's offense, just based on scheme and how it looks and how it fits them. Right. I mean, when you say that, your meaning, I assume, but correct me if I'm wrong,

is there's a big gap between Jordan Love and back-to-back MVP's Aaron Rogers. disgruntled over it dealing with thumb injury Aaron Rogers from last year. That's a lower bar. A much lower bar. When the Packers got good at the end of the year, they were like having Aaron Rogers

dropped back like 20 times a game. They kind of turned him into a game manager and they started doing more under-center stuff, started running the offense more. And it worked. They started winning games. They almost snuck into the playoffs. And I think we're going to see that carryover

into next season just with a different quarterback. This is also a team that has like, I think, eight first round picks on defense. However, when producer, Steph, and I asked Stephen if there was a new best defense of the week before doing this episode, Stephen got very quiet and said no. It's not the Packers.

I'll say that. This might be the worst safety group in the NFL. They have Jair, but I don't think they use him. correctly and I don't know this I don't like I'm not a fan of Joe Barry I'm surprised that he's back especially after last year

I just think they're defensive you're kidding this is a shock this is news to everyone I'm anti everyone from the Fangio tree now except like Brandon's daily I like Fangio like the OGs I

respect them but like all the the assistants that have come out like Ed Donatel Sean Desai Joe Barry They're deemages this place so soft. What did Sean decide to do to you? I don't know.

His time in Chicago kind of rubbed me the wrong way. That's, I don't know. And Seattle, what he did to Pete Carroll's defense. Should be brought up on charges for what he did to Pete Carroll. You liked the Fangio tree before it was cool. That's what you're. That's right. You're a Vic Fangio hipster.

No, I'm just like, I'm a traditionalist. I like Vic Fangio and Brandon Staley. None of this new shit. Give me the old. stuff. Reject modernity and Bray's tradition.

All right. That's fine. No new, no new, no new defense of the week. It's a good point. It's a good point, Stephen.

None of this. Soft zone. What happened to this sport? Used to be for men. All right. Should we talk a little hard knocks and get out of here? Yeah, let's do it. One thing that's been very funny to learn.

about Robert Sala through these first few episodes of Hard Knocks. Is the guy really loves like an extended metaphor or sort of like long rambling speech designation? The one this week was the four levels of competitor. The four levels of competitor, which he explained to the team, are survivors who are someone who does just enough to get by, then contenders who are people who are motivated by external factors like playing time, money, or fame, then competitors who are, quote, internally motivated to be their best regardless of the situation, and then commanders, which by the way, I mean, that's a football team right now. So I feel like you should have come up with a better, uh, better,

better top level. But commanders have all the traits of a competitor with one exception. He brings people with him. Did you get anything from this? No. This was even worse than the crow eagle metaphor that I still don't understand.

I still don't understand who the crow is, who the eagle is, and like why it's bad to have expectations. But I, I'm out on Sala. The expectations are the crow. Like we're the crow. Why is that bad? The hype is the crow.

Why is us saying you guys are going to be good, bad? I know. It's so funny because this was the receipts team from last year. Last year, the issue was that everybody didn't think that they would be good and he was keeping all of the receipts. Now people do think they're going to be good and now we're a crow and we need to be like suffocated at high altitude. But that's what it is is that we're hype.

them up, which is dangerous. Because if you buy into the hype, then you don't try hard enough, I think, maybe. And so they're going to fly high enough so that we pass out and die. That's what it means. Okay. There is an epidemic. Salah wants us to pick them to go eight and eight every year, apparently. That's what I'm getting from this.

We can't say they're bad. We can't say they're good. he wants us to want them to be mediocre. There is a thing that I think is becoming too ubiquitous around the league, which is just like all of these coaches need an editor. All of these coaches just need someone when they're going to go on one of these long rants or like come up with a big weird metaphor. Somebody just needs to come in and tell them like you can shorten that.

You can make that make a little bit more sense. The worst offender is, did you see the t-shirts that the Rams had made that say mentally and physically tough players who play smart and love to compete? Come up with a slogan. Was it an acronym? Or was that just? M-A-P-T-P-S-L-L-T-C? Sure. Not sure. Not so sure.

No, I think they need speechwriters. That's what they need. Like, we have them for, like, politicians and stuff. Why not NFL coaches? Right. Every one of these coaches now has, like, a chief of staff and all sorts of things. I mean, they're bringing people at. Ralph Machio came to Jets practice.

Instead of doing that, have someone, or ask Ralph Machio to do it. Machio? I don't know how to say that. Machia. Who cares? Have him do it. He can probably come up with something pithy. I just, I worry their meaning is getting lost.

also because if you asked me if I wanted to be a contender or a competitor, I probably would say contender sounds better. Same. Competitor seems like you're just in the game. Contender seems like you're winning the game or at least like a threat to win the game. So I don't, I just... Like you said, there's an NFL team called the commanders.

You can't even give that like speech metaphor if you were playing Washington that it would be very confusing. It's already very confusing. And now the Jets play them, like the Jets play them. If the Jets play them, Solis just spent this time hyping up commanders, if I'm a Jets player,

I'm like, holy shit, they got a whole team of commanders. We're going to get our asses kicked now. Although I suppose, I mean, imagine giving the speech to the commanders. Even worse.

Just a whole back. That would be even worse. Quinn and Williams is my favorite person from this whole season. I need more Quinn and Williams. A delight. Less Aaron Rogers, less Robert Solis,

weird metaphors, more Quinn and Williams. More Quinn and Williams. That guy puts meat in the seats. He's what we tune in for. Well, his teammates were sort of ripping him for maybe putting a little too much meat in the seat, but which is not nice. No, don't fat shame Quinn and Williams. It's not kind.

It wasn't his teammates? Wasn't it, Mike Evans? I think it was Mike Evans. Well, it was Mike Evans, but then his teammates were kind of piling on a little bit. That's true. Who said, like, you're well proportioned or something? A backhanded compliment if I've ever heard one. Quentin Williams is like truly a delight.

He should, I hope there is as much Quentin Williams as humanly possible to come in this series. Yeah, so how are we feeling about the Jets? Nothing else really stands out. I think like, I do think the season is losing a little bit of steam. I think I was in on episode one.

Episode two was a little iffy. And I'm ready for the season to end. I'll just say that. I think I'm getting there too. I did note Randall Cobb telling the wide receivers that if Aaron Rogers doesn't trust you, he won't throw you the ball, which obviously we all know to be true.

But it is the type of thing that I think Rogers tends to not like when it said. So it was sort of funny that Randall Cobb said it. Also, that remains one of my concerns for the Jets is just that Randall Cobb is going to have 100 targets. On third down, too, on key downs. Yeah. And the other thing, the other little thing in there that he, that Cobb threw in, which

was, I took as a little bit of a dig at Rogers. I don't think Cobb meant it, but I saw it as a dig. He was like, he doesn't like to throw interceptions. Like, he goes out of his way. And that's always been a criticism of Aaron Rogers. He's a little too conservative. And it was funny just to hear that articulate it. Like you said, like we all have known this about Aaron Rogers, like the trust issue thing

and the not avoiding interceptions at all cost thing. But it was just funny to hear, like, like one of his best friends say it on HBO. Sorry, on the max. Yeah. We can keep going. How many episodes of Hard Knocks are left? Two?

Three? I thought it was one. I thought they'd do four. They just do four. This shows what I know. It's all a blur. This is going to sound horrible out of context, but like 9-11 needs to come sooner.

Like, I knew the Jets' Bill's game to happen. So we could stop. Oh, the start? the season, Jesus, Stephen. See, this is why, like, I don't know if you caught this, like, I think it was episode two. Sala made a reference to September 11th, and, like, there was a little, like, disclaimer at the bottom.

It was like, that is when the NFL season starts, by the way. Or their season starts, because I think it's the day out. I mean, the Rogers factor alone, I think, says, let's not mess around with this. One remaining episode of Hard Knocks, I think, would be the right number. So we'll get back to everyone on that. It really has, but the show has just been the Aaron Rogers show. And that was fun for about one episode.

But I think now it's more fun when they're spending time with, like, Quinn and Williams and other people on the team. I feel like as they wrap the show up, though, it's like still going to be all about Aaron Rogers. And I've just, we've had enough. Unless it was like, I would be curious to see more about his life in New York, but it just seems like it's more and more and more of like, Aaron Rogers is a great quarterback. And that's fine. Was that your Lev Schreiber impression?

No. No. Not the voice of God. That was my impression of the intensity with which they are pursuing the storyline. All right. That's enough heart knocks. if it's not the Packers do we have a new defense of the week

or do? Yeah, we do. Oh, wow. The Cowboys. It's the Cowboys. This one I agree with. I'm Micah Parsons-pilled like the rest of the world, but I'm like Michael Parsons is going to get 20 sacks

and maybe break the sack record this year. Pilled. Like I think that's happening. Watching him play like, the guy never stops. His motor is always running. And you combine the motor with the high-level athleticism that got him drafted where he was drafted

and allowed him to play linebacker, even though he was that big of a human being. Combined with the fact that I saw some interview with Brian Baldinger and he was talking about Michael Parsons how obsessive he is about getting better in the off-season. And you combine those three things and you have one of the, maybe one of the best talents we've ever seen

in the NFL. And I think this year, year three, he's just the edge rusher this year. He doesn't have to worry about all that other stuff. He can, you know, work his body up to just be an edge rusher. I think we're going to see a historic season from Michael Parsons. And I think that combined with the two cornerbacks they have is going to lead to them being the best defense in the NFL. Check back in me in a week. Yeah, next week I'll have a different team. We will do that, but this one I really like. The other thing is, I mean, I'm not ready to sound the alarm because presumably he will just be back around the start of the regular season. But I think a fairly frequent thing you hear is it's sort of between the Cowboys and the Niners for the consensus.

Top defense, at least predicting a couple weeks out from the start of the season. And you're starting to hear some rumblings in San Francisco about the Nick Bowled. Bosa hold out, just being something that they're a little bit frustrated by. I mean, even like, I was out in Las Vegas a couple weeks ago when they were having joint practices with Raiders. And Trent Williams was talking about going against Max Crosby. And he was like, look, like, I'm missing something without Nick to be sparring with. And it's great to have a top player like that to sort of compare techniques with and

and really get a test against. And I just think more and more, there's a little bit of like, this is frustrating that this guy is still not here, even though Kyle Shanahan has said, this is pretty much how I expected it to go. Smart Money says he's back at the beginning of the season, although, who knows?

And if there's even a little bit of rust to shake off, like, I think you start to factor it in if we're talking about which one of those two, defenses, both of which should be great, gets the edge. And they lost to Miko. And they lost Domingo. Rines. That has to matter.

The Cowboys kept Dan Quinn. The Cowboys kept Dan Quinn somehow. Dan Quinn, who's beaten the cover three allegations over the last couple years. He's not a Pete Carroll clone. So I really think Dallas is going to be a good team.

As do I. The Mike McCarthy of it all is a little bit of a downer, but that's on the other side of the ball. So I'm very happy with the defense of the week, but of course we will check back next week, and I'm sure it'll be someone else.

Any final thoughts before we release you into the wilds of Green Bay, Stephen? Vegetables. Where do I get it? I need some iron. What would be your dream vegetable? Like, what do you want like a leafy green? Are you looking for more of like a squash, some seasonal produce?

I have some Brussels sprouts in my refrigerator. I might saute them when I get home, eat thin. That sounds delicious. That sounds lovely. By the way, I'm pro Brussels sprout. Brussels sprouts get a bad route. Right.

They tricked us as kids. They told us they were disgusting. And when I grew up there, they're amazing. Because I feel like when I was growing up, sometimes you would have a Brussels sprout where they were like, did people boil them or something? They were like mushy. I feel like you would have just like the whole, first of all, it wouldn't be cut at all.

You would just have the whole Brussels sprout and it would be kind of soggy. I also learned once that something did happen with Brussels sprouts, like something in the way that they were grown over the course of our lifetime changed where they were able to modify some of the bitterness out of them. So there actually is some reason to the, the fact that I think Brussels sprouts have had, like, such a resurgence. And now you see them at, like, every sort of farm-to-table restaurant is like, here are your, like, Brussels sprouts with little nubs of bacon and they're super, super, super delicious.

That didn't used to be as possible because I think there was a, there was a bitterness that was harder to cook out of them. But I love Brussels sprouts. I love a sauteed Brussels sprout. I love like a shaved Brussels sprout salad. Yeah. Good veggie. I need to get out of here.

This has been the ringer NFL show. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to Stephen for hopping on in the midst of his ongoing camp tour. Thank you to Stefan Anderson for production on this episode and to Connor and Evans and our June around with Paul for additional production supervision. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fandwell is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LSC. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit fanduel.com slash RG.

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