The Ringer NFL Show - Julio Jones Wants Out and Unpopular Opinions on the 2021 Season

Episode Date: May 24, 2021

Kevin and Nora are joined by The Ringer’s Danny Heifetz and they start by discussing all of the news surrounding the uncertain future of Atlanta Falcons star Julio Jones. Then they give their unpopular opinions on the 2021 season. Hosts: Kevin Clark and Nora Princotti Guest: Danny Heifetz Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David Chewaker and Kaz host the mass man show every week breaking down everything in the world of professional wrestling. Check out the mass man show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It is the ringer NFL show, part of the ringer podcast network. I'm Kevin Clark, joined by Noel Prince Yad and Nora. What's going on? Let's see. On a nice weekend. Happy to be back.

Happy to be potting, Kevin. I never know what to say when you're like, what's going on. Because what's going on is always we're doing a podcast, you know? So like Shannon Sharp, we called the most famous person in our phone book. And we came up with Danny Hyfitz. Hello, Daniel. What's up? I just get back from vacation.

I'm like Mr. Crabs meme. I don't know what that is. There's a generational divide. Oh, yeah. Are you a saved by the Bell Millennial? On this podcast in the past. And I really, I'm going to let you handle that.

So they're Saved by the Bell Millennials and SpongeBob Millennials. I'm a SpongeBob Millennial. You're a Saved by the Bell Millennial. Okay. Are there humans who have seen both shows? No. I think it's very, I mean, you have to threat. the needle. I think you have to be

back in the napkin math like 1989, but really Taylor Swift, I guess. That's maybe why she's so. There you go, Nora. That's why she's so popular. Is that why? Maybe. I think it might be other reasons, but I just want to say I think this show is off to a roaring start. So let's get on track before we go way off track, which I'm sure

is going to happen over the next hour. So we all got together because we're going to do an unpopular opinion show. We're still going to do that. We have on a popular opinion. Trust us. If you've listened to this podcast, you know we have unpopular opinions. If you ever listen to Danny Highfitz on the very expensive football show or this show, you know he has very unpopular opinions. Do we have any popular opinions?

That would have been much more challenging for this episode. I mean, Hyfitz probably has some SpongeBob stuff. It's kind of universal, right? Can we actually, can we just close the loop on this? Kevin, have you seen saved by the bell? Yeah, of course. Okay. And I've seen SpongeBob.

Yeah. And Danny, you've seen SpongeBob. Have you watched with any seriousness? saved by the belt? No. Wow. I mean, I think the sample size is still a little small, but it's holding up. This actually played out on the Ringer lot for a handful of months when Tiffany Theson, who played Kelly Kopposki, was on, was in our work area because we were on a studio in Hollywood. And she was just around. And the people who were my age, like above 30, were like, oh, wow, it's Tiffany Theson. And I think that the younger generation of Ringer people were just,

they just totally went over their heads. They're looking for SpongeBob. yeah no it's a little hard we were just excited when he like Travis Scott did the little homage at the half time show and everyone else was like what's going on why is this a bet on bavada all right so we're going to start with Julio Jones here before we get to the before we get to the unpopular panans because this is a wild story for any time but certainly on May 25th this is the kind of thing that explodes the offseason so Julio jones uh gets a cold call or do we think it's a cold call or do we think he knew guys that he was going to get a call from Shannon Sharp. There was no way.

It was... Okay, let me just set it up. Let me just set it up before we shut up the debate. So if you missed it somehow, Shannon Sharp, on undisputed, called Julio Jones and said, do you want to go to Dallas? And Julio Jones said, no. The Dallas Cowboys were just trying to have a very calm week in May, and they caught astray. And then he says, I'm out of there when he talked about Atlanta.

So that's all we know for right now. So there's a lot to unpack here, including whether or not Julio, what his value is, where he should go. He said he wants to go win. that's all he wants to do, which is probably why he eliminated the Cowboys out of hand. We'll get to that all. We'll start with this, Danny.

You'd like you had something to say with regards to whether you think he knew he was on air. Yeah, no, I think it was, I don't think Julio Jones had any idea he was on air because here's the thing. It's like, maybe this was stage managed, but, like, Julio Jones is not like the most media, like, front-facing person. He doesn't do a ton of, like, high-profile stuff. Shannon Sharp just calls him, and he answers,

it seems very much like he just thinks Shannon Sharp, called him and he's calling him back. And then the, the, the, the, the Pruder film here is that someone says off camera, can you tell him he's on live television? That was the host, right? So the producer is just freaking out. It's like, I don't worry. We are on shaky ground here.

Can somebody let Julio know that he is on television right now? Because if anybody didn't see it, when we say Shannon Sharp called Julio, he didn't, this is not like normal TV where, you know, they connect him to a line. This is, he pulled out his self. phone and dialed and put it on speakerphone. And Julio, when he picked up, at first he was like, this is why I don't think he had any idea. At first he's like, hey man, what's going on? And then he's like, let me connect you.

I don't know if he was driving or something. And then he like told Shannon like his plans for the day. Yeah, that's the thing. If this was stage managed, then this is like the best production I've seen in a long time. It could be Broadway because everyone played it role perfectly. I was deceived if this was fake. I think there are two options. The option that I think is true is that he had no idea that he was on television,

but I think that there are only two legitimate options. One is that Julio had no clue what was going on. And then the other is that this was all completely staged, including the sense or the potential question of whether or not he knew. What I think there is no chance of is that Shannon or a producer, like, contacted Julio in advance and was like, hey, do you want to come on the show and just be normal about it?

Right. The more is someone off camera being like, please tell him he's on television. Well, either because it's part of a ruse or because they went rogue and just randomly called Julio and didn't tell him he was on television. Okay. First of all,

there's a couple of things here. Number one is that the information that Shannon Sharp got out of Julio Jones is apparently something the NFL that have known for months. So, Ian Rappaport, reports that the AllPro requested a trade from the organization a few months ago, and the team agreed to listen to offers. That's how it began and why it continues, according to a rap report.

Adam Schefter reported that the Falcons have been talking about a first-round pick for Julio. Albert Breer reported the same actually this morning before the phone call even happened. All this started, by the way, on Sunday because Julio Jones was photographed wearing a Dallas Cowboys sweater. That was the thing. So the Cowboys are catching a stray. It's so hot.

Sweat shirt. I'm seriously that he needs a sweatshirt. It's a bit of heatwave. Sometimes I wear sweatshirts indoors. He was also indoors. It could have been heavy AC. That's a good point. Sorry, continue, Kevin.

So that's how the Cowboys end up catching the stray is that Julio was just wearing a cowboy shirt around, which I don't think is indicative of anything, but it's certainly not, like, news cycle dominating. So I don't think, you know, if Julio Jones was comfortable telling Terry Fonton and Arthur Smith three months ago that he wanted to trade, I don't think telling Shannon Sharp on TV is all that big a bombshell. I mean, we've been talking about a Julio trade for months. So this isn't like, this isn't like somebody called Aaron Rogers on the air. Isn't like James Jones or John Coon or one of those guys called Aaron Rogers and said, what's going on? This seemed to be known. The only

thing that actually may have been different than what the Falcons knew is that he doesn't want to play for Dallas. He says he wants to win, which really means like four teams, right? Right. Well, although the only thing that I would say to that is that I think there was some clarification. at least in the sense being more after this morning that like Julio wants to leave. Because I think the, the perspective had been mostly that the Falcons are just in this situation where they have no money,

they can't even sign their draft picks right now. And Julio's contract, if they could move on from it, is the easiest way for them to keep the majority of the players that they've committed to long term. but still be able to get out of some of that cap situation. To be clear, though, the thing he said was, I'm out of there. But that doesn't necessarily mean he wants out. It might also mean like the Falcons approached him and said, hey, we're going to trade you.

But then what's like, cool, looks for me. Then what Ian Robert and Adam Chender said, like quickly afterwards, which seemed very much like, okay, there's this situation on undisputed. And now, you know, we're going to text our people and try to find out what's going on. And then the Falcons are like, or whoever it is. I obviously don't know who they're talking to, is like, yeah, look, he wants to leave, he asks for a trade, this is what's going on.

And I don't think that's a needle a ton. I would have broke up with you first. That SpongeBob millennial again. She's like, she's a teenager. It's like 18, yeah. With teenage feelings, man. But I think

if the lesson is anything, it is that teenage feelings can continue on into adulthood. and they can be carried out. According to Sports Illustrated, so Julio is due $15.3 million guaranteed. That means there are just eight teams who can afford him without moving money around. Those teams are the Jaguars, Jets, Broncos, Bengals,

lions, Browns, Chargers, Niners. Of those teams, if we're actually talking about winning, it'd be the last three, Browns, Chargers, Niners. And if you want more of the sure thing, you would just go with the Niners. Nora, I'll start with you, because you were the one who came out with the Falcons are going to be good this year take.

Contingent on Julio Jones being there. Two-part question. Number one is, how much is this change your Falcons outlook? And number two, what is the best fit for Julio Jones? Well, so I'll do in reverse. I think the sort of most likely end best fit would be, of those teams that could afford him right now would be the Browns. Really good, raw.

but could use a little bit more depth of receiver particularly, you know, we don't really know what kind of shape O'Dell is in. I think that's an organization that could be really smart about how to use him. Obviously, there's some consistency in the offensive systems that they've had in Atlanta and are running in Cleveland. I also think that it would be a little bit easier to trade him to an AFC team. So that's one that I think could feel. feasibly work out. I mean, I don't know how much, if it's not in division, I think Schaftor reported that they would rather he be out of the NFC if they're going

to trade him. But if it were for the right price, then fine, whatever. I think those things can, you know, if the trade package is good enough, people forget about those things pretty quickly. But I would say Cleveland. I just love their situation. I don't know if Julio, I don't know how he feels about the city of Cleveland, but I don't think that's that big of a deal.

team on their eyes. They've got Odell. They've got Jarvis. Don't they need to do other things like pass rushing help? I know they got clowny, but like, I mean, how good is he? Don't they need to stack the defense more? The defense is pretty stacked, right? Like where, I think that's the thing about Cleveland right now is that you can look at them and go, okay, here's where they could use some more depth.

But I don't know that you look at that roster and see obvious holes anywhere. I tend to agree that there aren't a lot of holes in Cleveland. I think Peter King actually had them like fifth or six in his power rankings this week and made the same point, his preseason power rankings where he said that there's really no area where you're saying, okay, this needs to be fixed right now. So if they wanted to take a big swing and I, you know, listen, I don't know. John Dorsey is the GM who traded for O'Dell. Andrew Barry has been kind of quietly assembling a great roster and plugging a lot of the holes

that needed to be plugged and all that stuff. He hasn't taken a huge swing, but he's only been there obviously for, essentially two off season. So we don't know the track record there. But this is going to come down to a GM who just wants to swing for the fences. Julio only played nine games last year, 771 yards, 85 yards per game on a per game basis. So that's seven yards per game less than 2019 and something like 20 less than the year before that.

He's still got something left. Danny Hyford's big picture question, what would you give up for Julio Jones? I mean, if you're a good team, I mean, I guess you could say I'd give up like a late first if you think you put them over the top. Realistically, though, I think it's a second, which is insane because if you could go back a couple years ago after when Muhammad Sunu went for a second rounder

and say, hey, the Falcons might get a second rounder for Julio like two years from now. It's kind of nuts to think about. But to your point, I don't think that there's really a demand. I don't think there's a bunch of teams that are sitting around saying we're desperate for Julio. Obviously, everyone wants them on their, team. But when you factor in that he's going to cost them, you know, double-digit million dollars

and it's going to cost them maybe a first-round pick, I think that list really thins of the team's interested. And when there's not that many teams interested, I think it goes from a first to a second, to which that point it becomes, are the Falcons really going to give up Julio for a second round? I'm kind of like, wouldn't it be cool if Kyle Pitts could like be around Julio Jones for a year? And then, you know, just mop up all that work ethic and then, you know, go be Julio Jones. So I think it's strange. Mopping up work ethic is an interesting visual for me. I've been on vacation.

Soaking up maybe. But hold on. I just the idea of, to Danny's point, I think the idea of Julio Jones, Calvin Ridley and Kyle Pitts and the same offense with a good quarterback. And with Arthur Smith is like,

that is worth salivating over a little bit. So I totally get feeling like, well, I hope that they can find some way to squeeze this out. I think the question, and Kevin, I'm curious what you think about this. Does the,

does the understanding of their financial situation or the understanding that Julio would like to go somewhere else, do you think it changes the marketplace for what they can get? Because my first thought this morning was like, okay, if this now clarifies to people, to other teams that Julio doesn't want to be there, is that going to hurt the offers that they get because they think that like, oh, well, you don't want a disgruntled player or whatever. The more I think about it, the more I think that people just sort of get over those things. But do you think anything different? Well, they only get over them if there's more than one bidder.

I mean, if this becomes an auction, then you can drive the price up and get maybe a second. I don't know. I don't know what the eventual price is going to be. It's not going to be a first because people reported that he's been available for first and nothing's happened. That's a huge contract. So I don't think him being disgruntled with the Falcons is going to scare off the Niners or the chargers or any of these teams,

as long as it's not just one bitter. We've seen sometimes when a superstar or a star is disgruntled and teams say, okay, fine, we'll take them off your hands for a fourth round pick. That's only when there's one bitter. Nora,

let's get back to something that we got out of track a little bit about, which is the Falcons in 2021. So you thought they'd be good this year. You like Arthur Smith as a coach of the year candidate. If Julio's not there, that changes how? It knocks them a little bit. He's still a really good receiver, right?

And it's not like, also by the way cordial Patterson is on this team I'd forgotten about that who needs Julio Jones when you have Cordillette when you have Cordill Patterson cord paterson let's go do you think Cordellar Patterson

knew he was on the Falcons oh I thought you're going to say knew he was on television should you think he's just like what what team am I on? Do we have Corral Patterson's number should we call him up right now just dial him

he's on a one year three million dollar deal that's okay let's go right he can provide add some value. Amen. No, he's the reason. He's the reason that you have such falcons.

Cardinal Patterson-based take. Yep, yep. It's really simple. I think that Matt Ryan is still very good. And I think that any team with a very good quarterback, decent levels of talent at the skill positions, I think Julio does move the needle just because they're not deep enough at receiver to feel like you can subtract someone,

even with some injury concerns, even at this point in his career, you can take him out of the equation and it, it, you know, doesn't matter. I do think that adding Kyle Pitts and subtracting Julio Jones probably at this point is a net positive, but it would still be much better for both the Atlanta Falcons and also for my belief in them, because obviously this is all about me, to have both of them. So I don't think that it's like a zero impact, but I still would be bullish on them being, you know, much better than their record was last year, just because I really like the coach.

I really like the idea of what, what that system's going to look like there. And I like the draft. Danny, any last thoughts? I, well, I was just going to say, I think that Arthur Smith making Matt Ryan a better quarterback is probably going to make up for a lot of the loss of Julio. The last thing I just want to say is that I just, the one team we didn't mention, I think the cults kind of make a lot of sense. I don't know if they were on that list earlier, Kevin, but I just think, I know

Chris Ballard may not make that kind of splashy move, but just in terms of teams that have the money, teams that, you know, I mean, it wouldn't hurt to give Carson Wentz top tier receiver like that. I think that for a lot of reasons, that is kind of the one I'm kind of fascinated by.

I would also say that we keep, every time there's someone available who costs a lot of money, we always go, oh, here are the teams that can afford them. And then somehow some team with $300,000 in cap room just affords them and moves things around. Like, I mean, for God's sake, I mean, obviously I know how the cap works. I know that you can push money forward

or whatever. But the chief signed some of the biggest contract extensions in history when they had like, what was it, like $500 in cap room last year? No, it was less. It was way less. It was like $170. The Mahomes contract, we signed the contract added $30,000 a cap space, of caps to the chief's cap that year.

So of the Raiders, Colts, Pat's, Jaguars, which one do you think he gets traded to of those four? It seems like I know this is a cliche, but it seems like a Raiders move. But I would also say there's a reason that seems like a cliche, right? It's just something that happens with them. So, right. It's not just a Raiders thing. It's half the Gruden Mayock draft picks up in Bam or Clemson.

Right. Which means, so presumably they watched Julio Jones playing the national championship game many years ago. And they found out who it was, which is how the Raiders scout. They're like, this is the guy. This is the guy. All right. We'll do, let's do one round up on predictions. Danny, where's he going?

I think the Raiders. Nora. I kind of think the Raiders, too. All right. I'm going to marry this with another report over the weekend. I'm just going to recklessly throw out the Patriots. No one says Jaguars. I was like 50-50. I just don't know. So the report was that he wanted to play with Cam Newton, right?

And so maybe that that sort of cancels out, like the fact that the Patriots are not a legitimate AFC contender this year. Also, wasn't contained in that he wants to play with Cam Newton. and also he thinks Matt Ryan's lost a little off his deep ball. I got some bad news about Cam Newton's deep ball for you, Julio? How many random phone calls is Julio Jones taking this weekend and just saying whatever? Is he doing just a weird media blitz where he's just sitting by his phone and talking to whoever and just saying whatever? I recently took a bunch of like notification alerts off my phone so that I, so it doesn't pop up all the time.

I think a similar purge might be a good idea for Julio. just be a little less available. Oh, can I just speak up for Julio here for a second? Here's my unpopular opinion. This guy has been one of the best receivers in the NFL for almost a decade, has basically never had like a big controversy around him in the NFL. And now he, Shaden Sharp just dupes him one time. And we're like, oh, let's turn off your push notifications.

Julio's done better at staying out of the limelight. Come on, Nora. Oh, this is a pro-Hulio podcast. And I think Julio was wronged, was dup. and unfairly tricked. But I'm just saying... This is unreal by Shannon Sharks. I can't believe you do that.

That's insane. I don't think that we should do like media ethics here, but like there's a very solid possibility that was deeply shaky. I'm of two minds here. I think it's totally possible that Julio got duped. And if that was the case, if he had no idea he was on television, that's wrong. Having said that,

I would like more random phone calls on television shows like this. But people know... This is going to spawn a bunch of fake. Yes, yes, yes. There's going to be so many fake versions. You're talking about stage ones, right? Yeah, now there will be staged ones, and it's going to be annoying. I'm okay if, like, James Jones text Aaron Rogers and is like, I'm going to call you on air in five minutes.

I'm fine with that. That's what I won't. Yeah, totally. But they're going to pretend that it was real. I am completely abstaining from saying whether or not, I don't know. This could have been staged. We've been duped many times in the past by this sort of thing. Shannon could have been like, hey, I'm calling you in five minutes on air.

He could have done that. But I'm not saying, if he wasn't, I'm not saying, Julio, change your notification settings because this is your fault. I'm just saying, like, protect yourself, man. You know, it's a crazy world out there. Do not disturb mode? Oh, love it. The last thing I'll say here that just occurred to me is that

Julio's done a bagillion interviews in his life. He's probably never just answered the phone of the host and immediately been on air. No, because that's not how that's supposed to work. It's not how it works. I also think, again, we're not doing media ethics here. That is illegal in some states. Where's Brian Curtis?

It is illegal in California. Where is Brian Curtis? Neither of you guys live in. Should we call Brian Curtis right now? We call Brian Curtis and we don't tell you're on a live podcast. You're on air. Do you have you guys ever seen the NBA interview where Shaq says the F word a bunch and the, uh, their reporter goes, Shaq, we're on live and Shaq says, and then just keeps cursing.

Have you guys ever seen that? He says I'm giving that? Well, he doesn't have to pay the FCC, does he? It's not his problem. Somebody does. Somebody does. But it's not Jack. Let's get to the actual reason we're together here today.

Stocks and Football. This is a very simple podcast. We've done this a handful of times. It is one of my favorite things to do. In the offseason, it gets us through from May until August when actual news happens, non-Hulio Jones speakerphone division. And I really enjoy it. It's the unpopular opinions episode.

It's exactly what it sounds like. Danny Haifitz. You're our guest. You're on speakerphone. Give us your number one. popular opinion. Just get rid of special teams. Just get rid of them.

So all special teams. Yeah. We could keep field goals. I think field goals are kind of fun. We could keep those. Everything else is ridiculous. So let me push back on this. Let's interrogate this idea here.

So you would keep field goals so you have special teams players, but they'd only do one specific thing. But you have a kicker. And then the other guys in the field go unit are like backup offensive line them sometimes starting off. Yeah. So you have the backup quarterback doing the whole. You're giving rid of punters. Yeah. Oh, yeah, no punting. Yeah. That's really what I'm saying. No pun. We don't need kickoffs. We don't know.

Well, you'd also get rid of punting. It changed roster construction in as much as, you know, there's a bunch of guys who are just special teams, aces. Yeah, I have a crazy idea for you, Kevin. What if instead of like letting guys make football teams by practicing a completely like different skill set to one day be the third string running back? What if we just let them practice being the running back the whole time. Like the whole like, oh, it saves guys jobs. I get that, but they're not practicing their skill set. That's number one. But that's not really like the main point. It's ridiculous. It's

boring. It's like it's, you can just trim the fat off of the red meat of the sport. Like, the idea that, oh, field position will suffer. No, it will be way more important. It'll be way cooler because you have to just go for it on fourth down every time. Way better sport. So what I'm really saying here is eliminate punting. So it's fourth down. You get the first down. You get the first You give the ball back. And that makes the sport better because it's like a paradox. It's a trick because it makes more scoring, which everyone wants, but defense becomes more important.

You make the games shorter, but you also have the best players on the field more often. It, like, kind of fixes everything that's just kind of drags about a football game. Can I make a counter argument? Yes. Please. I'm begging someone to make a counter argument. Really long. punt and kickoff return touchdowns.

Oh, they like never happen. But they never happen. They never happen. Oh my God. They never happen. It's like playing roulette. Because sometimes you win. This does not, if we get rid of special teams, if we get rid of punting, we get rid of kickoffs,

very rarely are you going to see like a 99 yard touchdown. They almost never happen anyway. It's like statistical anomalies. They happen sometimes. Oh my God. That's the, all right. I think. I don't think most people care.

If you're at a football game and you need to go to the bathroom, you do it right when they're going to punt into the TV timeout. It's like this 10-minute wasteland of the game. Right. When are people going to go to the bathroom? If the game's so exciting that people can't leave their seats, then like that's a great product. That's bad for the kidneys.

I mean, Joe Muskgrove, like, threw a no-hitter having to peeve from the fourth inning. Don't hold it. How would this change the game? Because I actually think there's a possibility to become a more boring game because teams would be so obsessed with getting a first down deep in the territory that they would just run like three and a half yard plays three times. So I think that I would actually,

I think what would be most interesting about it is that defense would kind of, I think teams with great defenses would be better because if you're, I mean, I'm thinking of like the 06 bears or someone with like Rex Grossman a quarter of, or the recent bears, the Trubisky and like the Cleo Mac great defense.

If you can get three and outs, that's suddenly like the most valuable play in football is getting a, stop at the 25-yard line, and now you're giving yourself a short field. So it's actually kind of a more fun game. And then the whole thing of like, well, what happens to field position? It becomes more important. Defend your field position.

The idea that you can just, oh, we'll just like do this aerial retreat. It's ridiculous to me. Like, defend the field position if it's so important. So this is how we save defense as we get rid of defense. Yeah, defense is way more valuable now. That's kind of what's cool about it. But you're also going to see more scoring. It's like, it's kind of like a trick.

I can't believe you want Matthew Slater to be unemployed. So I'm so mad the. FFL didn't do this. Hades hates Matthew Slater. I cannot believe. Or any punter who's ever existed. Sorry. I don't feel bad.

At all. I cannot believe the XFL didn't do this. I know they didn't want to be seen as like gimmicky, but this to me is like the solution to a lot of problems. Not to mention the kicking and punting are like the main like, are good ones to eliminate for safety reasons. But it also just doesn't make sense to me as like a job saving program for special teams.

Those guys could just get rock. to learn the actual positions they play. All right. This was a fascinating delve into the minor Danny Hafeitz. Nora, what's your first unpopular opinion? All right. I feel really lame now. But these are...

Don't feel that way. Kevin was so unamused by mine. I think you have nowhere to go by up. No, unamused is the wrong phrase. I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. So I kind of have two unpopular opinions about the AFC North, so I'm just combining them into one. Here are my divisional rankings there.

Cleveland, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh. That is my order for the A of Cynmore. Okay. So Pittsburgh is last. Yeah. I think they're falling apart. Okay. Take us through it.

So there's really two things here. One is that I think between the, I think most people would agree that the Browns and the Ravens are the two best teams in that division. That's correct. And between them, I like Cleveland better. They're both very good teams. but I think if you look at how Baker Mayfield was playing in the second half of the season, he was PFF's second highest grade quarterback from week seven through the playoffs last year

and ranked in the top five from a clean pocket on standard dropbacks and on early downs for the entire season, very stable things from year to year. And if you look at the roster, which as we just discussed when we were talking about Julio, really hard to find significant holes there. I think just it feels like a lifetime ago that, Kevin Stavansky was not coaching a playoff or, you know, coaching or not coaching a playoff game from his basement. And they were just walking all over Pittsburgh. And yet they can kind of pick up from there, essentially.

And so I'm just really, really, really bullish on what I think they can do this year. You know, it's Cleveland. So like, I'm sort of white knuckling myself as I say this. But I really truly think that this is a team with almost no clear positional weaknesses that got on a role towards the end of last season. And I think that they absolutely can keep it going. And if you have a quarterback that's playing like that, and I think, you know, Lamar Jackson is incredible. But I think those really stable year to year metrics that Baker Mayfield was excelling in towards the end of last season, that is what I would pick if I needed to

make a bet based on something going forward. So the other part of this, I would rather be the Bengals than the Steelers right now because I just think that the quarterback is falling apart. And I think that they have completely in Pittsburgh. And I think that they have completely misdiagnosed what is wrong with a running game, which has absolutely nothing to do with the running back situation. It is that there is absolutely no blocking. And I think the fact that they didn't even try to address it is kind of unconscionable. And so even though, I mean, I wish the Bengals had taken a alignment. I wish they'd taken Seoul. But I would still much rather, even coming off a horrible injury, I would still have a young quarterback who before 20 yards, under 20 yards of depth was really, really, really,

really good last year. Those downfield passes, that's pretty variable. That can get better. And I think, again, like Jamar Chase would not have been my pick there, but I think you add someone like that into the mix. It's only going to help in that specific area. Overall, I just, I'd rather have the arrow pointing up than down. but I think we are underestimating because the Steelers have a good coach,

great history are typically stable. I think we're underestimating the potential for just like total disaster there. All right, Danny Hypatiff is. Let's take this one ticket at a time. Cleveland and Baltimore in 2021. How do you have them ranked? Cleveland and Baltimore, I agree with Nora on that. Oh.

It's not so unpopular after all. Well, I would say those two teams are both like nailed on as playoff teams. especially when you consider how many playoff teams there are now. Like that's, that to me is not the unpopular part of this. I think the unpopular part of this is the Steelers being in last place with the roster. I still think is pretty good. I actually think with Burrow and how he's going to progress health-wise, he's doing the Chris Collins with a podcast a couple weeks ago and was talking about

how he's progressing. I also just kind of feel like, and I know this is, this is like the lamest most mainstream NFL take, but I do value organizational stability and the Steelers had that so much more than the Cincinnati Bengals and that's a believe but when I see a thing for me, Danny High Fitz, Pittsburgh Steelers in 2021

and doing what? I agree with Nora. I think they're last place. I really do. So when Nora first said this for what did you say, Browns, Ravens, Bengal Steelers, I was like, yeah, isn't that what the betting odds are? And I looked them up.

The Steelers odds to win the division are three to one and the Bengals odds or 25 to 1. That is so out of whack. That's crazy. Yes, but I don't think, but if you were to bet on which team was going to win the division,

would you choose the Bengals over the Steelers? This isn't a matter of finishing in third place. The matter of finishing in first place. Which team has a better path to finish in first place? I suppose you're right. The Bengals have a higher ceiling. But sometimes the leap happens, and it's just faster than you think.

And I think that the Steelers, my problem of the Steelers is that that end of game, that end of season run, run they had where they collapsed is way more representative to me of what I expect this year. At the end of the day, Rothesberger can't really throw it too deep and he can't really move in the pocket anymore. And when all the defensive linemen are like, oh, we'll just jump up and bat down your pass as the cornerbacks play up.

I don't see what's going to change about that. I don't see him fundamentally getting better as a quarterback. It limits the entire offense. It limits how they've built their team. It reminds me of the Giants clinging to Eli Manning when everyone kind of knew they should move on. So while it makes sense to kind of be like, well, the Steelers, beat the Bengals, they're the Steelers.

I don't think that they're showing a lot of wisdom and how they're kind of going about building this season. I kind of like, I think the Bengals could beat the Steelers this season. I wouldn't at all be shocked. I also, Kevin, I'm with you on the organizational stability thing eight times out of 10, but sometimes one of the unfortunate byproducts of that is inertia and moving on too late. And with Rothesberger, obviously the contract plays into that. it would have been hard for them to figure out how to do that.

But when you have a quarterback who just looks like he's done, great career. But if you watched the end of last season, like that just was a guy who didn't have anything left. Like Danny just said, I don't know how you turn that train around. My unpopular opinion is that neither of those teams matter this year. And that it's the Browns and the Ravens at the top of the division. And I don't think either, I think that the maximum that either the Steelers, the Bengals get is eight wins. So I don't, I think that that has, the Ravens,

Browns part of it has the chance to win the most compelling storylines in football in 2021. And I agree with you guys that Ben Rothesberger is not going to be a good quarterback in 2021. I just don't think the Bengals are going to be good enough to, to get to above average. So I have a feeling that we're just going to give no thought to those two teams in 2021 is my take.

That's it. My unpopular opinion, my first unpopular opinion, since we have three each, the best destination for Aaron Rogers, and the only place he should want to play is the Green Bay Packers. So I don't think he should go anywhere. I think he should actually, unless he has a real good reason that I don't know about,

I think he should abandon his trade request. I think that they have given him, I understand the Jordan Love thing stinks. It's fine. It happened. I wouldn't be happy about it. But he has one of the best tackles in football. He has one of the best receivers in football. He has an offense that he wanted to run.

It's the reason they hired Matt Luthor in the first place. They have a Super Bowl winning roster. It is the only place, only place short of San Francisco where that ship has sailed where he could win a Super Bowl in 2021. That's a realistic option. I just don't understand. And listen, if he hates the front office, fine. And that was the report.

Mike Floreo said he hates everybody in the front office for various reasons. A lot of people hate a lot of people in NFL front offices or coaching staffs or whatever. Ain't that the truth. And one of the things is that, like, Nora, you know this better than anybody. You would always hear in like June, like two people in New England just absolutely hate each other, right? It just doesn't matter who. You just hear, oh, this guy and this guy aren't getting along, whatever. You know, there's 20 people who really matter there.

And it's, okay, two people don't like each other. And then by October, the Patriots are six and two. And you're just like, oh, man, remember when you heard that rumor, these two guys weren't getting along? The train just kept moving. Okay? we're all moving in the right direction. And the Packers need to do that. And I think, I think it can be very, very easily done.

I think we can all forget this whole thing. The only place that makes sense for Aaron Rogers is Greenback. I'm so jealous of this opinion. Is this an unpopular opinion or is this an unpopular with Aaron Rogers opinion? Well, if Aaron Rogers is, first of all, we can call Aaron Rogers and get him on this if he knows he's on television. But listen, it is unpopular with Aaron Rogers. But I also think because of the take cycle, we have sat around and we've said, oh, man, Denver could be scary with Aaron Rogers or whatever it is because we have these fantasies and we have to feed the content machine and all that stuff. But they're not going to be Denver with Aaron Rogers is not as scary as the current Green Bay Packers, who are a top five team in the NFL and have made the NFL and have made the championship game two times in a row and probably should have made the Super Bowl last year.

Like there's just something here. And I understand it's, first of all, listen, Aaron Rogers was seen, I know if you guys saw this, dancing at a wedding over the weekend in Hawaii. He's happening in great time. And doing karaoke. Do we know what song? Do we know what song?

No. Olivia Rodriguez. If he learned Olivia Rodriguez album that quickly, that'd be very impressive. I heard the Olivia Rodriguez album's about Jordan Love. If, if, if Aaron Rogers was just belting the bridge to drive, driver's license. Like he, he automatically,

he's now the commissioner of the NFL and he can trade himself wherever he would like to go. Those are the brutal out here. The unpopular opinion for Aaron Rogers that he needs to sort of, for lack of better term, earmuffs,

he just needs kind of eat shit for a year and try to win a Super Bowl. Well, I honestly, I think you're right. Like, the idea that, I mean,

I felt this, I think a lot of people felt that when the Raiders were on that trade list, that, wait, you think the Raiders are in better position to win with the Packers? it's really weird. Honestly, it reminds me of when the Thunder

almost beat the Warriors in the conference finals and then Durant left. Obviously Roger's not going to go to Tampa Bay, but there are vibes of like the emotions of getting so close and failing kind of distort your thinking and stuff. And it's like, but the Packers are not the Thunder. It's kind of nuts to me that any of the teams that he threw out other than Broncos or even the conversation

to be better than Green Bay. But also, more to the point, if Rogers, Rogers seems like he's going to have to hold out practices. and maybe games to get a trade. The fans will turn on him so fast. This is not others. Like the fans are going to turn on him immediately. It just seems like a bad idea, to be honest.

Yeah, it seems unfun, but he also seems like his feeling. Here's what I think about this is, maybe this should be my unpopular opinion. It's not. It's not one of mine. But I just think that way more teams than we realize are really suffering because there's not enough emphasis

in the NFL as a whole. on just like communicating well and being nice to each other. Like it's actually really destructive because it seems like if you sort of, you have to read between the lines on this a little bit. But it seems like what upset Rogers more than the drafting of Jordan Love was the fact that they didn't tell him. Right. That nobody called him.

And there were all those reports. There were all those reports that maybe Guten Koontz was going to trade up for Justin Jefferson and all that stuff. If you look at the reports before the draft, Like, it really did seem like a receiver was on the table at least. But I feel like the fact that he found out, you know, he was on Kyle Brands podcast in this very podcast network a couple of months ago. And he said that his marketing agent is the person who texted him and said it's going to be a quarterback.

Yeah. And I do think as much as I think he should return to the backers, like if you're in, if you're Mark Murphy or you're Brian Guttencunz or your Russ Ball, you're Matt LaFleurr, like when the, when you decide to take a quarterback, don't you think you should just send a little text? Hey, buddy. We're going QB here. And I don't think that I don't think that the message of that is like those guys suck as human beings. I think it's like the way that we have these organizations structured right now. Like there's an incredible emphasis, which I don't think is misguided on quantitative analysis is ruling a lot of these buildings in ways that are really smart and really important and have propelled a lot of teams forward.

what I think is getting left sort of forgotten right now is like everybody is a human being. And whether whether people telegraph this by accident or on purpose or at all, sometimes the more advanced these places get, it has the impact of making players feel like they're, you know, just just chess pieces on a board. And I think when we look around the league and we see just sort of this, this era of potentially more quarterback movement because those are the players who are empowered to pull these kinds of moves, right? And say, like, I want to go somewhere else. You haven't done enough for me.

I just, I think that there's this sort of like under, under recognized element to it where players find out all sorts of stuff about their lives on Twitter. And they hear about, like, advanced metrics defining their worth. And it has a real cumulative. of effect of making a lot of guys. And it's not just players, by the way. Like, think about what we, what we learned about the Eagles who a couple years ago, we felt like we're one of the smartest organizations in football. And then a lot of what seems like it has to do with that place no longer having the quarterback, the starting

quarterback and the head coach who, you know, Carson Wentz didn't play, but were there the year they won a Super Bowl. It's like people not feeling like they were. we're empowered to speak up in meetings or we're allowed behind certain doors and everything. Like it is in some ways sort of antithetical to the type of thinking that we think kind of defines a lot of professional sports and especially football. But it's like teamwork and communication is genuinely hurting a lot of teams right now. I agree with that. Danny Hyfetz, do we need more compassion?

The Bucks called Tom Brady to tell them they were going to draft Kyle Trask a quarterback. The Vikings called Kirk Cousins. The Cuck Couss. Tom Brady to tell them they're going to sneeze. The Vikings called Kirk cousins to tell them we're going to take Kellyn Monde. The Packers fucked up by not telling Aaron Rogers and that honestly is the majority of what's happening here. I just think it's

interesting that Mark Murphy is not the guy taking a lot of heat here instead of Brian Gutikens because he's Brian Kudekun's boss and I think that Mark Murphy probably deserves a little more heat here. And I think it's also part of this that's a little weird is that Adam Schaefter reported this in ESPN and then later

kind of said that there was not any inciting incident that changed. and it kind of, it seems unclear whether Rogers wanted this out to be this mega story on draft day or not. I'm still confused about that, to be honest. All right, Danny Hyfitz, second unpopular opinion. I think the referees did great last year. Instant replay is really good.

Everyone should stop complaining from now on forward. Like, we had our fun after like the NFC championship game a couple years ago. The refs are good. Holding was down 40% last year. Offensive points and yards and everything was at an all-time high. Let's just give the refs a pat in the back. after everyone should have been mad at them forever. Like, great job.

Great job with referees. Great job to instant replay. Let's stop complaining about it. Counterpoint. Complaining is fun. The refs are fine. I have no real problem with the refs. Do I like to wine?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Let's all compassion. Let's all come together. People, you need to treat people with respect to like, ah, complaining is fun. No. Do you know what?

You know what? You know what the best? Actually, you know what? I'm going to galaxy brain all of this. Do you know what one of the best ways to foster teamwork and collaboration and closeness is? A common enemy. Do you know what the Packers needs? need. They need a referee in controversy.

Well, they've been on the right side of a lot of them. Everybody who gets screwed by the refs, like the Matthew Stafford Lions team that went into Dallas and almost won that game, but then they picked up the flag and passed interference. Anytime you talk to one of those guys, those guys, it's like a band of brothers because they're, they're all just pissed at those refs seven years later or whatever it is. It's a great bonding experience to hate the refs. Kevin, to your point about like Aaron Rogers should just get over it and play for the Packers because the Packers are really good and they actually have put a lot around

him. The thing about that that I really agree with is like they just need to find something where he can kind of save face basically, where everybody can save a little face and be like, ah, well, you know, let's say the Packers, maybe the Packers trade for Julio, right? And it's like, Aaron, we got you, Julio Jones. And then he can at least be like, all right, well, that was an Olive Ranch. And I'm, I'm not completely retreating for my position or whatever. Another option, cheaper option. find a ref to hate together. Find a rough to hate together. I would say the problem with Rogers right now is that once you give the people who Photoshop

stars into other team's jerseys a reason to do so, it never ends. Like once you have like Aaron Rogers photoshopped into a Broncos jersey and they realize how many retweets that gets, then you're just in that zone. Okay. So the referee thing is interesting to me. I think that when I talk to referees, there are structural problems with it. Like the rulebook is probably a little too thick. You know, I think replay takes way too long.

I think that that process can be streamlined. I think that the biggest problem is not botched calls. I think it's just some procedural things that slow the games down. And then the refs become the face of that. How many do you talk to refs? I have talked to refs in the past. I did a whole thing on Mike Pereira and Dean Blandino, like two years ago. And I took to a lot of referees for that.

Love it. Love it. I'm connected in the referee community. Should we call one? Ed Hockley. Call one of live. Not tell him. We can't tell them we're recording the podcast, though.

All the refs have, like, really weird side jobs. Yeah. That's the weirdest. Like, Mike Carey, I think Mike Carey worked for a snowboarding company, if I'm not mistaken. The refs are doing their best, man. The referees are guardrails for our society. Get no love, no respect. Referees in every facet of American life are under attack.

Mike Carey is a, is the co-owner of a ski and snowboarding glove company. Oh, that rules. Yeah. Ed Hockley. was like a corporate lawyer, I think, for a while. They've all got a lot of time on their hands. That's all, you know, they got a lot of time on their hands is to take there. They're hiring full-time refs now, but they didn't for many years.

Norprits Yadi second on popular opening. All five first round rookie quarterback should start week one. So the unpopular one here is Trey Lance. I think so, right. So Lawrence and Wilson are obvious. And then Trey Lance is probably the, the biggest thing here. And then I just think Justin Fields is probably better than Andy Dalton. And if their coaching is as good as they believe it is, I think by week one, he should be better than

Andy Dalton. Andy Dalton has had a good career. Andy Dalton was also bad last year. Trey Lance is probably the biggest one here. So let's talk about that. There was a really interesting piece by Sam Monson and PFF today. Basically arguing that Lance could be rookie of the year if he starts right away. And the crux of it was that the traits that he has that would make you think that he's not ready

are really narrative-based. So it's the inexperience, the low-level of competition-based, the run-heavy nature of the offense, North Dakota State. But then when you actually watch, the traits that he really has kind of say the opposite.

So he excels reading defenses and diagnosing coverages. That's pre-snap and post-nap. Only had six turnover-worthy plays in college. So you're looking at someone who you can construct a narrative based on his background that's like, oh, this person needs to sit for a year. But if you actually watch him play, he's a really fast learner.

He's played, even though they had a really run heavy offense, they also had a lot of pro style concepts. There's a lot more that should carry over than you would necessarily think. And then we also have seen Kyle Shanahan craft plays for RG3 in 2012 with a dual threat quarterback that were incredibly hard to defend and really exciting. And if you put it all together, you can kind of flip it so that when you actually watch how he's, he plays, he seems like the type of quarterback that could get ready really quickly and be really exciting. And I also just think that if you're going to put that type of resources into drafting quarterback there and you can get him ready to do that, it's in your best interest to do it. And then Mack Jones, I think everything New England's done pretty much indicates that they would

rather run the type of offense that they would run with Mack Jones than the one that they needed to run with Cam Newton. Do you mean like two tight ends up like that? Yeah. And also just like rhythm, timing, high completion percentage. I think bringing in Brian Hoyer really told me a lot in that they would like for Mack to have someone who knows the system that they've run there really, really, really well to maybe get him more fluent in it more quickly. Because otherwise, I just don't really know what the point of Brian Hoyer. is if he's not sort of an expensive quarterbacks coach that you can have who other than than Tom Brady knows what they do there better than pretty much anybody who's not, you know,

Josh McDaniels or Bill Belcheck or somebody who's been on the coaching staff. So when you put it all together, it seems now, do I think that all five of those guys will actually start week one? Probably not. But it could happen. And my take is that I think it should happen. Danny Heitz. After year one, in the same way that we rank,

I presume we all rank Justin Herbert and Atta at the moment, when we re-rank, and probably in front of Burrow, just because Burrow gets in a complete grade after last year, although he showed some flashes, after year one, if all five quarterbacks who are taking in the first time

get significant playing time, and we redraft, who's going to be number one? I don't know who's going to go number one, but rookie the year, I agree with Nora and Sam Monson. It'll be Trey Lance because it's the best, it's, it's, it's, it's, It's like the fastest Formula One car. It's like you're in the best car.

It's like, you know, you kind of have to be a lot worse than other people to not finish ahead of them. I really, when I gave me that Formula One analogy six months ago, I did not know how important it was going to be to your life. The cars make great sounds. There's a lot of cool accents. Formula One's very cool. They go, Vroom, you know, it's a very big thinker sport. I did. Fascinating.

I did too. It's not the race for casuals. I saw the clerk crash. They call it a parade because no one. really is able to pass. And Monica. It's fine. It's good.

It's pretty. Serena Williams was there. Yeah. I mean, Monica's just beautiful. But anyway, big, I agree with Nora, though. I think it's a good point. I think Trey Lance, I mean, that all tracks. I like it.

I think that you're going to see Lance in by October. I don't necessarily know if it's going to be week one. I don't think. So, Nora, would your take that they're going to all start week one or they should start week one? My take is that they should. But here's, here's, but let me, let me morph it. This may actually be.

even more unpopular. If the answer is by October, I mean, I don't know. I guess if it's like you're going through training camp and the guy hasn't quite gotten it yet, but he's making a lot of progress, then sure. Switching quarterbacks just isn't fun, usually.

And so if the guy is going to start, if the guy's probably going to start in the early part of the season, just do it in week one. Yes. Okay. So I think that a lot of this comes down to, number one, we have no idea what's going to happen

with the offseason and all that stuff. Peter King had the item today that I thought was really interesting about how there are a bunch of teams in baseball who haven't even reached the 85% vaccination threshold. And one team that Peter talked to said they're not even a 40% that they're 100% with staff and support staff and front office and all that stuff, but not a 40% with players. And so I don't actually know if what training camp protocols are going to be and all that stuff. That's a huge question as far as the young quarterbacks go.

Right. Because that changes a lot. A lot, a lot, a lot. But I agree in some situations. Like, I do think, even though I've said on this podcast that I actually think Andy Dalton's going to start in week one for the Bears, I don't think if he really, if Fields is the guy and they know they're going to commit to him early, I don't see the harm necessarily in week one, even though I've given takes to the contrary.

I just think that there's, for some of these, you know, Matt Nagy's trying to save his job. I mean, we probably pretty much know that at this point. Ryan Pace is trying to save his job. And I think that there's probably going to be a plan that has that extra element baked into it. My second unpopular opinion, until the NFL changes the rules to make it otherwise. And I am number one culture builder. Number one culture builder. It's me and Bill Walsh, an all-time culture valuers at the football at the NFL level.

The score takes care of itself. until the NFL changes the rules to make it different, NFL teams should tank games in order to preserve or get a better draft. You look at a team like the Philadelphia Eagles, which obviously were sent into absolute disarray with LaFaird de Sudfeld in Week 17. And obviously, guys that Jason Kelsey hated it, but they wouldn't have been the position they were in to pick up extra draft capital. and all that stuff, and we saw the move they were able to make.

And I think that nine times out of 10, the teams that win in week 17, for as much as it helps to build a culture and as much it helps to move in the right direction, I think they end up regretting it. You know, U.S. in 1997 Arizona Cardinals, if they would take that week 17 win back. They made them four and 12. And that was a part of a December that cost the Arizona Cardinals, Peytoning. that's important. And we've seen this play out over and over again.

I don't think a long-term tank can work in the NFL, right? That was one of the problems with Sashi Brown is that they just bottomed out so much that there were no building blocks whatsoever. And there was going to take a handful of years. And then, you know, listen, if you're trying to do a three or four-year tank in the NFL, well, rookie contracts are only four years plus a fifth-year option, which gets expensive. guys get hurt all the time where their windows are very small guys peak for a much smaller amount of time than other sports

and also there's just it's not the same as the NBA where one superstar doesn't necessarily change the entire thing unless it's a quarterback so I'm not a huge believer in long-term tanks what I am a believer in is in the short term there are situations where NFL teams

should lose games on purpose so you're saying post-Christmas basically Christmas rolls around and then there's week 17, 18, you're out of the playoffs and you're like, okay, we can get the third pick or like the 11th. Let's blow these two. Thomas the tank. I'm saying Nate Sudfeld should be highly sought after going forward.

Yes. Not only do I think you're right. I think this will happen. I think the Eagles changed it all. The Eagles, the fact that they took so much shit and then immediately flipped it for a first. It's kind of like LeBron gets shit for the decision. And then everyone else is like, you know what?

I like forcing trades and free agency. I think you're right. Do you think Leo Jones getting a cold call on live television is going to change the future player movement? Yeah, Corterill Patterson's going to do it next.

Do you think he's going to change the future of cold calls? He's already there. Okay, so you think this is going to happen going forward now? I think it will happen. I think you're right.

I actually agree with everything you said. The organizational, we will be bad this season is not going to, it's bad. But the, well, it's Christmas and we're two and four,

we're two and 11. Like, let's just, I think if you're the Jaguars, I do think if you're the Jaguars, years, like, we're so, all we have to do is be bad this year and change the entire fortune. You've seen how bad their track record has been with top five picks.

You've seen how bad their quarterback track record was from playing Gabbert to play portals and now they have a potential game changer, franchise changer. I actually think that tanking for a season is actually not the worst thing in the world. It just can't be for two seasons. I think the one thing I'd say to years, I think it has to be, it will primarily be for teams whose coaches are getting fired. I don't think it's an accident. Doug Peterson's gone.

I think that if a coach is going to oversee an 0-1-1 or even an 0-2 stretch where the players perceive they didn't want to win, that coach will have very big trouble coming back to the next season. But if it's a lame duck situation, I think that's way more possible. Agree. Danny Hyfitt's third unpopular opinion. I think the draft is really weird, man. It's so weird. I can't believe that like organizations are just like you work for us now instead of like, you know, free Americans deciding, oh, thank you for this offer, I will sign on the dotted line.

Really weird. This is incredible. So what would you propose? I would propose. It is strange. No, it's, it is strange. Like, kids get to pick colleges, but not their jobs. There's a lot of things about sports that are strange.

Very strange. Yeah, I'm just saying it's been so long. Like, what are the drafts for? The Army and football. Like, uh, that's weird. It's just strange. Like, it just should, honestly, the only real comp for this is medical school. A reader actually pointed this out.

I've mentioned this on the fantasy show. and I think here once, but the only real comp is medical school where you kind of give your preferences and then they were like, all right, you're going to Pittsburgh.

But the fact that, I mean, imagine if there was a draft in like another industry. Imagine if like Wall Street was just like, all right, Goldman Sachs with the first pick this year

because their balance sheet was so low. Like it's just ridiculous. It should be a pool and you should just basically do recruiting. I think the draft is kind of a stupid system. Like as someone who watches, you know, European soccer and all that. I understand a system without it,

but you also have to remember, like the college football system is actually the craziest part of the whole thing. And so the draft flows from the college football system. That's fair. I think the question is, do you see the NFL as a one business where it can tell you where you're going,

what chapter of this business you're going to work for, or is it 32 competing businesses that are, you know, kind of colluding? And I think that that's kind of the crux of it. If it's one business, it kind of makes sense for that. Otherwise, it's very, very un-volously strong. Well, there are some things that are undoubtedly collusion. Sure.

And there's a salary cap and all that stuff. So, yeah, there is a limit on what you can do. It isn't a true competition. There are leagues in this world that are true competitions, and most American sports are not them. It's definitely weird. Okay. That's my unpopular opinion.

The draft is weird. It's not that unpopular of an opinion. I'm just going to throw that out there. Norprinciotti. All right. This is actually, this is a, an oldie of mine, but I don't know that we've ever discussed it in this forum.

Eli Manning was better at hosting Saturday Night Live than Peyton. He was the better SNL host. It was a better episode overall. Let's break this down into three categories. And some is sort of outside their control. But Peyton, three-minute monologue. Really only one good joke, which was based on his mom not ever having.

having played football. He went into this whole thing where he was like, yeah, she got a try out with the, basically his whole family was there and he listed, like my dad had this career,

Eli's here, blah, blah, blah, blah. My mom, Olivia, she's a disappointment to the family. She never made it in the NFL. Had a try out with the dolphins, tried it in Canada for a little bit, but we love her anyway. It was good for a chuckle.

But it was a quick monologue, and that was really the only good zinger. Eli, they construct. No, Peyton had the United Way sketch, which is like the best. We're going to get to that time. Just wait. Just wait.

We're going to get there. Eli, they construct, first of all, monologue full minute longer. They clearly trusted him more. They built a whole thing about him giving bad recommendations in New York. Did you crunch the numbers on this? Yes. Okay. This is very important to me.

It wasn't exactly a barn burner, but like they were trying stuff. Now, here's the other thing that's sort of outside their control. But for the musical guest, Eli had Rihanna. Peyton had Carrie Underwood. Carrie Underwood sticks with a football thing. But like, come on, Rihanna rules. That's a win. Okay.

Here's the crux of the argument, though. Peyton's best sketches were the United Way skit, a classic. And then the locker room dance, which was Will Forte was a college basketball coach who tries to get the team fired up at halftime to Casino Royale, and it only works on Peyton and then they just dance a bunch. Mm-hmm. Good, good, good stuff. But Eli.

So, Eli. Sure. Right. now we know a seminal work. Eli's best sketches were the little brother sketch where he basically like gangs up on on big brothers on behalf of little brothers and the embarrassing text message murder trial sketch

where he does the face where he's like his alibi for not having murdered someone is that he was basically sending a bunch of you up texts and where he has to do the thing where he's, it's like colon P, which is the, you know, I'm winking,

but I'm also sticking my tongue out. And then he makes that face. I don't know. I'd take those two over, over Patens. So I think Eli's three for three. Better monologue, better best sketches and better musical guests.

Okay. So I think this comes down to a fundamental question about who, what do you want out of an S&L host? Do you want consistent? consistency from the monologue until the end or do you want the highs of the highs? Because I think Danny Hypertz and I both agree that if you stack both those episodes on top of each other, the number one thing that came out of either was the United Way sketch. It's the only thing I think of when I think of either Manning Brother hosting Saturday Night Live. So is this more about the kind

of 2021 viewpoint of SNL where you just want to do the viral sketch of which Peyton won that or do you want the whole episode. Danny Hypert's helped me out here. I am a huge giant fan who has rooted for Eli for like a really long time. And even with all that, I have to say, even if Eli's overall episode was better, the most memorable sketch is like

the actual legacy of the performance. I actually think Peyton's performance is better. I think you guys are vastly underrating the Little Brother sketch. Who watches like 90 minute SNL episodes from 12 years ago? You watch like the one or two sketches that were good and Peyton's was better. And I love Eli.

I need you to, when we finish recording, I need you to go watch the Little Brother Sketch on YouTube. It's so funny. It's so good. Should we put it in the episode description? Yes, please, so that people, be tastemakers here. Should we just go live? Should we watch it and go live on locker room when we watch it like Simmons and I did with the PJ Championship yesterday?

Look, it feels good to get this off my chest. We're going to get us out of here on this last unpopular opinion, which it might be, I've been doing podcasts for five and a half year, something like that, and it might be the end of something for me. I think that... Danny, this is our podcast now. I was going to say, yeah. Once I say it, once I say it, it's...

Once I say it, you'll understand. I think running backs have become underrated. Whoa! I just think now that we reflexively dismiss the value that any running back can have. Listen, I'm not saying it's ever going to be like the 80s or the 70s or the early 90s. I don't think a player can have a Barry Sanders-like impact going forward in the NFL. The game has changed. But if a guy can catch a pass, and listen, I'm not even saying that they should be worth

$50 million in the second contract or anything. But what I'm saying is, the one thing I've noticed over the past three years, is that the analytics folks, of which I am one, have run up the score so thoroughly on the running backs don't matter debate that now we just dismiss everything when travis etienne was was playing receiver and otaes and they were rookie minicamps rather and they were just playing around with it and seeing when he could do which is what we want you want if you're going to have a weapon like travis at tn you want him playing wide receiver in rookie minicamp just to see what it looks like and and just play around with it oh he can catch the ball whatever and i understand they have higher injury

rates all that stuff but i just feel like the conversation is shift so far to where a early second rounder, late first, whatever it is, anybody picked out for 25. I wouldn't take a top 10 running back. I probably wouldn't take a top 32 running back. But I'm just saying they can have value. They can help a team win in short spurts. And I just don't like how the conversation is developed. Jenny Hype, it's where are you on this?

I agree with you. And I also kind of disagree with your premise because I think that you're right. that people kind of reflexively dismiss running backs too much, but I also kind of disagree that we need to go in the other direction because it's like, it's not like teams are acting differently. I think that a lot of people get mad on Twitter and do podcasts and running columns,

but I don't know if team behavior has changed. I guess like running backs aren't drafted in the top five anymore now that Dave Gettleman once he took Sequan. But other, but none of the running backs that are good have not been extended. Like all of them have been paid, McCaffrey, Aaron Jones, Camara, Dalvin, like all these.

dudes got paid. Right. So I guess like there's just to me, it's more that there's a giant chasm between what this is a media take. This is a media. Yeah, media. Yeah, but but there's always a giant chasm between teams in the media. I mean like, you know, NFL teams sit around talking about three

techniques all the time. One was the last time we sit around and talk about that stuff. Right before we went on air? Morning over breakfast. When was the last time? You're doing that on air before we mentioned Julio. I don't, I don't, you know, is Shannon going to call up Grady Jarrett next week on speakerphone? and just have to talk about it.

Like there's a lot of of people, players, positions, things, traits that are valued inside NFL facilities are not valued outside of them. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it goes to Norris point earlier about how like human beings have become kind of data points and sometimes

it's a little insulting. I think they're running backs don't matter thing is like I guess it's a good way to get people's attention, but also I think, you know, some real human being running backs have taken that a little personally. It's not very nice. No, are the running backs matter. Yes.

A team, now you assign credit, and I think it's due more to the offensive line, but a team within the last five years, it also had Tom Brady, but won a Super Bowl that it wouldn't have won without a really dominant running game. And that was the 2018 Patriots. And so, like, you look at a,

And it's funny because in some ways, that's a good example for this. Because I don't know that they pick Sony Michelle again. I don't know that that draft pick looks like a good use of that resource. At the same time, you don't make that pick. Truly, maybe you don't win a Super Bowl. Yeah, but it was because of the line. You just said that, though. It's probably not Sony Michelle.

It's the offensive line is good. I was going to talk about James White turning into Jerry Rice in the 2018 playoffs. Yeah. Yeah, that helps you. You know what? I think part of the problem here is that we don't have the good words. I think part of the problem is that English doesn't have enough old German words. Because...

We don't have good words. No, seriously, it's hard to conceive of something if you don't have the right word for it. And one of the problems is we call James White and Lagart Blunt running backs. Like, they play the same position. And so it's not really clear what when you're like, running backs don't matter. Well, what does that mean? Well, there's like different kinds of running backs. And so James White's are receiving back.

Maybe we should just call him that. So maybe it would be helpful if we had, oh, well, certain types do, certain situations do, but, I know, grouping, the overgeneralization of it seems to be part of the problem. All right. Any other unpopular opinion type that's when you get out of? Yeah, we'll leave some on the table.

For next year. Yora. Every other one of my opinions is incredibly popular. Everybody loves all of them. That's true. That is true. All right. Guys, this was fun.

unexpected Julio segment to lead us off. But this was phenomenal. Flying Coach is the next show on this feed. I don't know if I can say who's going to be on this week, but they're a good guest. They'll be joining Peter Schrager and Sean McBay. That's going to be an awesome podcast. I really, really can't recommend that enough.

I'm looking forward to everyone hearing what they have planned of the next few weeks. This has been the Regan NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network.