The Ringer NFL Show - Justin Fields, Kyler Murray, and Checking In on the Giants, Packers, and Bengals!

Episode Date: March 17, 2026

Sheil and The Ringer’s own Diante Lee analyze and discuss the big free agency moves that sent Justin Fields to the Chiefs and Kyler Murray to the Vikings. They then set their sights on the Giants, Packers, and Bengals and debate how much those teams have improved so far this offseason.(00:00) Justin Fields, Kyler Murray, and offseason team check-ins!(01:48) Kansas City Chiefs acquire Justin Fields(15:35) Kyler Murray signs with the Minnesota Vikings(33:41) New York Giants offseason moves(46:23) Green Bay Packers update(55:42) Checking in on the Cincinnati BengalsThe Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.Host: Sheil KapadiaGuest: Diante LeeProducer: Chris SuttonVideo Editor: Stefano SanchezProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Shield Capadia. We're talking a little quarterback movement in the NFL to start the show today. Justin Fields gets traded from the Jets to the Chiefs. And then Kyler Murray signing with the Vikings. Is it going to work? I might surprise you with what I have to say about Kyler Murray and the Vikings. So we'll get to that.

And then some teams we haven't talked about yet with the free agency frenzy. We've got the Packers. We've got the Bengals. and we've got the giants. We want to get into those teams. What have they done in the offseason? How do we feel about it? So we've got Deonti Lee, our friend from the Ringer, as our guest today.

Let's take a break. We come back with Deonti. All right, we are back here on the Ringer NFL show with my friend Deonté Lee. Deontay, two things could happen during this podcast. One, we could get breaking news, a trade, something, and two, we got a little tornado watch in the Philadelphia area. So if I just disappear for a while, it wasn't because I hated it. take you said or I was like I can't deal with this guy anymore. It is the natural elements that have

taken me out. So I just wanted you to be prepared for both those things. And you know what? I hate to hear that because we are going through a heat wave, right? So it's going to be in the high 80s out here in San Diego. So I'll keep an ear out for the sirens if you guys have those installed in the Greater Philadelphia area. And if that happens, then maybe you now might have to one man the ship in your stead. But let's hope that doesn't come up. I always feel so bad for you when we talk about the other things you got to deal with out there. All right, let's get to it, Deonte. We got a trade.

Not a blockbuster trade, but we got a trade involving a quarterback that's kind of interesting. Justin Fields going from the Jets to the Kansas City Chiefs for a 2027 sixth round pick. So Jets are playing $7 million of his remaining $10 million guaranteed. That's according to the athletic. So the Chiefs get a backup quarterback, maybe a guy who if Patrick Mahomes isn't ready in week one is going to have to start games early for them. What did you make of this move? I think there's still a Justin Fields Hive out there.

I don't think you're part of it. I don't think that I'm part of it either. But those people in the Justin Fields Hive at least got a little bit of life with this trade, I feel like. You definitely get a little bit of life. And I think that, I mean, ultimately, I think this is, based on the reporting, Justin Fields saying that he really would like to land in Kansas City. I think that that was kind of what kicked off this negotiation.

And I think that if you're, fields, it's a wise move to make because there is a legitimate chance. Did you probably get the entire preseason and maybe even week one or week two, depending on what's going on with Patrick Mahomes to kind of showcase the fact that you can grow your game a bit, right? I think of all the potential landing spots and I think that I tweeted something about this last weekend. I'm about Anthony Richardson, right, once he kind of started to suss out his market.

To me, the hierarchy is probably something like the Chargers, the Chiefs, the Packers, teams like that. I want to be someplace where very mobile quarterbacks who have very raw skill sets in terms of accuracy and pocket feel, where they go to these places and they get a chance to kind of rehabilitate their image, so to speak. So I think that's a wise move for him.

And ultimately, if he does get a chance to start for a game or two in Kansas City, I mean, just from like a PR perspective, being in the Chiefs uniform during this era where they've won a bunch of championships, if you show a modicum of competence, now you're going to have the Andy Reid did it again stamp on you. that's going to make you a lot more valuable, I would think, the next time you hit free agency. So I think that from a career perspective, it makes a lot of sense. And from Kansas City's perspective,

I mean, what's there to lose, right? You go give Justin Fields two or three starts if Patrick Mahomes isn't ready. He stinks it up. He's 0.3. You can tell Patrick Mahomes, hey, man, if you need another three weeks to really make sure that your ACL feels well, take your time. Or, hey, man, there's really nothing at stake for us. So we don't necessarily have to risk you. Not that they will sit him out all year, but if there's nothing to play for then that's okay too, right? So I think that this is kind of a high ceiling. Don't really even have to worry about the floor for them

because I don't think that there's any expectation in 2026, at least by the quality of roster, that Kansas City has to be doing everything you can to win the championship right now. That's interesting to say. I mean, that's the lead of the argument. You don't think that the Chiefs are going into this season thinking that they're trying to win a Super Bowl, Deont,

or is that outside observers who are realistic shouldn't expect the Chiefs to win a Super Bowl this year? This is a me pulling up our lads take. Not necessarily the Kansas City is looking at themselves saying that they don't want to compete. I think for them, they're trying to hold this boat above water as long as they can. But you look at the two deep, especially on defense. And it's entirely possible that with these two first round picks that they have, you know, one coming from the Trump McDuffie trade,

that we exit day one of the draft saying, oh, man, this is going to be like Philadelphia in 2024 where they get a couple of young playmakers on either side of the ball. These guys are pro bowl level talents. and they're right back in the picture. I think that that is within the realm of possibility. And I think that when you look at the offense, the offense can be fine. And the truth of the matter is that the offense wasn't a problem last year either.

I thought that offensively they played about as strong as they had over the last three years, certainly since they traded away Tyree Kill, at least in the passing game, I should say. But you look at the defense and just some of the way the attrition has hit this team over the last two years. You lose your Justin Reed before the 2025 season and he wasn't the only departure then. You lose Brian Cook this off season. You lose Trent McDuffie, who I mentioned, this offseason. You lose Leo Channall. All these guys that on their own, you might not say, are superstar talents,

but have been playing well above your typical role in the Steve Spagnolo defense. I don't know if you can say so comfortable that they're just going to be able to fill in the production that they're losing. So if I'm looking at Kansas City compared to the rest of the top of the AFC, I think I would slow play any idea that as soon as Patrick Mahomes steps on the field again, this team goes right back to being at the top of the hierarchy. I'm just not as certain right now. I was just checking Fandall to be like, is it crazy what Deontes saying or is it not crazy?

They're fourth in odds to get out of the AFC behind the Bills, Ravens and Chargers. And then they are sixth overall, sixth or seventh overall here to win the Super Bowl. And that's what Patrick Mahomes, right? That's what the Mahomes bump. So that is actually the line makers telling you how they really feel about this team. Even with number 15, assuming

his help, that they still don't view them as a top five Super Bowl odds team. I generally agree with you with the roster. I look at this and go, man, I don't. You know, we talked about it when we discussed the Kenneth Walker signing and you just look at it and go, is there enough here? Did they do enough in one offseason

if they're really trying to rebuild this roster? And they're really asking Spags to be a miracle worker. Now, he's figured out a lot for them over the years. We have defensive backs. So we hadn't heard of. And then all of a sudden, you're sitting down going, oh, that guy's pretty good. Oh, he's getting something out of that cornerback.

So maybe he'll make it work. It's not guaranteed when you have the roster churn that they've had. You just mentioned all those names that they've lost. And none of them are really except for McDuffie. None of them are an all-pro caliber player. But still, those add up over the off seasons. And you can say, well, we're going to replenish it with draft picks. And yes, you might.

But you also might not. You might miss on the draft picks. And the guy you drafted or you say, this guy's going to come in and replace Trent McDuffie, it might be week four. And you go, that guy can't be. out there. He's actually not one of our best cornerback. So there's a lot of uncertainty around that defense.

And then with the offense with Fields, this is good for content, I will say, because if Mahomes goes down during the course of a game and Fields has to come in and it's a big spot, that's going to be more entertaining than a Gardner Minshu or a Carson Wenz or, well, Chad Henning did have that fun moment that one time.

So I don't want to throw him in that group. But yeah, it's, you know, it's interesting that these quarterbacks who things haven't gone their way. and they have options. It seems like they're getting more in the mindset of, how can we go to sort of quarterback rehab school? You know, whether it's Kyler Murray saying,

I would really like to go to the Vikings and Kevin O'Connell. You can even go to Sam Darnold, going to San Francisco for that one year that he credits for being really pivotal, pivotal in his career. And I think if your fields, if your fields is agent, you say, let's go, let's go to Andy Reid. Man, this guy has worked with a lot of different quarterbacks

over the course of his career. And let's see, we're going to get the whole, off season there. We're going to be getting a lot of the reps in the spring and in the summer. So we're really going to get to get in there and see how we would look in this offense. And then whether you play in the regular season or not, maybe you rehab your image a little bit. Maybe I shouldn't even say image just kind of like what people think of you as a quarterback because it's not like it's all field stuff or anything like that with fields. But maybe you get in there for a couple games and you play well. And now like we spoke about Malik Willis this off season, we're speaking about Justin Fields like that. next off season. So I'm with you. I mean, they're paying $3 million, and that's on the low end of backup veteran quarterbacks. I mean, some of these guys are getting $7, $8 million. So it's not like you're paying a lot of money for Justin Fields. You give up a sixth round pick. I think if you're the chiefs, that's not a big deal to give up a sixth round pick to take a flyer on Justin Fields.

And I will say, I don't want to give the Jets too much credit, okay, because they paid Justin Fields, 27 million dollars guaranteed to start nine games for them where they went two and seven. So it's not like, wow, great investment. But that was last years when they made the terrible decision to actually get something for them, save $3 million. I was actually a little bit surprised by that. I thought they were just going to have to release Justin Field. So you just look at it statistically.

Deonti, over the last five years, there have been how many quarterbacks here that have had at least a thousand dropbacks. There's been 40 quarterbacks who have had at least 1,000 dropbacks in the last five years, and Fields ranks 37 in EPA per pass play. So it's just, he's had different situations. Pittsburgh, the Jets, the Bears, now Kansas City.

I still feel like anybody who wants to salvage Justin Fields as like a competent starter, I feel like his legs have to be a big factor there, designed run game, scrambles. And just the last two stops, It feels like they haven't leaned in enough to that. So that's something I'm interested in with Andy Reid as well if Fields gets a chance to play. I think so too.

I think that all the reporting that came in after he had signed with New York last offseason, right, like, hey, we're going to really try to allow this guy to show his quarterbacking chops, right? We're going to really try to let him display what he can be from the pocket. And I don't want to totally dismiss the idea that he might be able to develop ultimately into, you know, maybe a kind of mediocre to average-ish quarterback from the podcast. pocket. But if you just look at all of his passing metrics since the start of his career, right, it will tell you that this is a guy who, if he's not running, really can't be a starter, right? Like, the data would just suggest he's not a starting quarterback unless he's running,

right? And I think that even with the running, there's going to come a point in time in his career where that might have diminishing returns as well. So I think to me, the biggest thing for Justin Fields and why I really support this from a Fields perspective is it's less to me about can I get Malik Willis money or Justin Fields money in 2025? Yeah, again. You set the bar. If I hit the market. There is no Malik Willets without that.

Justin Fields wild contract last off season. I think it's less about that and it's more about if I'm Justin Fields and I'm just reading the T leaves about where my career is headed trajectory-wise, the most powerful thing that I can do is attach myself to very stable quarterback-friendly organizations and show that I can be a valuable backup, right? And then maybe if I do that for a season or two, that makes a team more apt when they need a bridge quarterback for me to again go get 25 to 30 million guaranteed over two to three years in the future, right? Because he is young. He is a younger guy. He is somebody who really hasn't had to deal with

much significant injury prior to this season. And I do think that maybe there is a way that you can get some Malik Willis level play from him as a backup in the right set of circumstances. But like you said, I think so much of it is going to be based upon defense is having to be terrified of his legs. That is one thing I will always give Justin Fields, especially in his first year, year and a half as a starter. There were times where he just tucked and ran, and it was like, oh, my God, this guy is the fastest player on the football field, bar none, right? People cannot catch this guy when he's at top speed. So I do think that that's got to be a piece of it.

And I think that, you know, if you're Andy Reid, you're probably looking at this and saying, hey, maybe we can add another dynamic to this offense for four to six snaps a game where Justin Fields can get involved and we can get something interesting out of our backup quarterback. So all the ways that it works aren't necessarily, world changers to me. But again, I think that all of this comes back to serving Justin Fields' long-term interests. And I think that's kind of where I'm centering it at.

Everything else to me is kind of more of a throw-in as far as Kansas City goes. When you mention that, just in my head, I'm like, the Andy Reed creativity is so hit or miss. It is. When it hits, you're like beautiful, mad scientist. But when you mention that in my head, I'm going, like, all right, playoff game. It's fourth and one. Four than two. And all of a sudden Fields is in there. And it just, gets blown up and we're like, oh, my, Andy, no, I know you wrote this on a napkin on like a Thursday morning this week, but you didn't have to use it in such a big spot. It's so funny, those over the

years. Again, when they work, it's like, man, no one does it. No one's more creative than Andy Reed. And then you have the other ones that just leaves us scratching our head sometimes at what he's trying to do. Can I give you a little piece of, as the kids would say, lore about Justin Fields that I forgot, Deontay? Please. He got an MVP vote in 2022. Do you have Oh, I remember this. I don't remember anything about this. Was this a bigger deal than the Justin Herbert vote this year? Because this one, I'm like, wait, am I looking at his pro football reference page wrong?

It was one vote. And remember, the voters get to do top five. And so I think he got a fifth place vote that year. But it's there. Because if you get one vote, even if it's one fifth place vote, it shows up on your pro football reference page. I don't remember a single thing about this. I tried to Google who voted for him. and I couldn't find that.

So I don't, maybe, you know, it's a little unsolved mystery. Maybe that kicked off to AP putting out the voting pool and who voted for what, right? That might have triggered, you know, everybody's need for more transparency in sports journalism. That might have been a thing. But I do remember that. I don't know if anybody is ever going to react to anything, though, as loudly as Patriots fans reacted to Justin Herbert, getting his first place to BP Bo from Sam Munson. I think that that was going in NFL media. lore for a little while.

That's a good, if we did like a top five. Yeah, top five boats that created the most chaos in the NFL. That sounds like a June episode, potentially, on the Ringer NFL show. Let's revisit these. Who actually voted for them? What were they thinking? Was it that crazy at the time? Yeah, that would be fun to revisit some of that stuff because I forget about stuff easily

and I forgot about this Justin Fieldsville. All right. Let's take a break. We come back. Kyler Murray to the Vikings. I think I'm going to surprise some of you. with how I feel about this move. All right, we are back here on the Ringer NFL show.

Kyler Murray, since last time we did a podcast, signed with the Minnesota Vikings, Deontay. And I have never, we've had many conversations about Kyler Murray over the years. I've never been the biggest Kyler Murray guy, usually in those conversations. I'm taking the other side on it. The more I think about this move, the more I have really talked myself into it.

Like, I'm kind of excited about it. I kind of think it's going to work. We'll see where I'm at. August, but I think if you're a Vikings fan, I don't think you're delusional to think this could be some version of last year's Seahawks. And I'm not saying they're going to win the Super Bowl. I'm not saying they're going to win the Super Bowl, but here's the argument. Very good defense.

As long as Brian Flores is there, I'm just penciling them in for like a top five, top eight defense. It's not like they got decimated, losing guys in the offseason. So I think they're talented enough there to have a top five, top eight defense. good offensive coach in Kevin O'Connell. Two years ago, they take Sam Darnold, who hadn't done anything as a starter, and they go 14 and 3 with Sam Darnold. Last year, with a terrible quarterback situation, shuffling guys in and out, they went 9 and 8 last year.

And so I'm looking at Kyler Murray. First of all, it's a great risk to take because you're only paying him $1.3 million. If it doesn't work out, you literally didn't lose anything. You didn't lose draft picks. but the history of Kyler Murray, Deontes, that he hasn't ascended to a top five level quarterback. But I think we underestimate the floor has never been that low with Kyler Murray. Like you're going to get to a certain level of quarterback competency. It's not really what it feels like watching him.

Like watching him, you have a game where you're like, man, is he one of the most talented quarterbacks in the NFL? And then you have another game where you're like, does this guy know what he's doing? Like, this is a disaster. But it usually evens out over the course of an entire season. and he's ranked between 10th and 21st in EPA per pass play. Every single year, he's been the starter. That's been with different coordinators, different play callers, different supporting casts.

His teams have never won big, but I feel like he has a chance here. I feel like this has a chance to be a really good team. Like, I'm looking at some of the odds. They're plus 600 to win the division. They're over under for wins is eight and a half. Like I think if I had to pick right now, I'd be picking the Vikings to be a playoff team. So am I getting, am I overreacting to Kyler Murray? Do you see the vision here with the Vikings?

Do you see a ceiling here with the Vikings with this move? Where do you stand? I think that Kyler Murray's best is certainly good enough to get this team to the playoffs, right? I think that it's certainly good enough to make them competitive and what might be the tight, the most hotly contested division in football in the NFC North, right? Not that the highs of that division are as high as the NFC was, but I think of all those teams probably, are habitating like very similar spaces, right, at peak capacity.

So I get the argument from that perspective. I guess ultimately what I would have to throw back at you is whether or not you think that 9% sacrate that he had last year is indicative of the future or if it's an aberration just based off of having a poor offensive line play because I would certainly say in the absence of Clayton Adams who left to go be Dallas's kind of offensive coordinator slash offensive line coach, right, that that team definitely took a step back both in the run game and in terms of pass protection.

And I think that before he was shut down for the year, it seemed like he was making a few worse decisions with the ball. And some of the non-decisions were really turning into issues, right? Holding the ball instead of getting rid of it. Trying to extend plays when he should just be checking it down. Things like that, I think, we're really kind of starting to show up in his tape in a way that was bothersome for me, especially with a wide receiver core that while they're not world changes,

this sure seemed like Jacoby Percette was able to maximize Tray McBride and Michael Wilson, in Arizona's offense in a way that we just had not seen in 2025 at least from Kyler Murray. So I guess that that's kind of where I'm hung up most is what we saw last year an indication that this guy now is just going to take more sacks,

which means that his dropbacks become more volatile, which makes his turnovers a lot more backbreaking, right, his misses on throws and makes that more damaging as well. Or is it going to be closer to what it was in 2024, right? Arizona was not the most competitive team in the first half of the year. if I remember right, and then they kind of rallied late, right?

They kind of found it, they found a rhythm a bit, and we're able to kind of salvage an eight and nine season. I think that that's within the realm of possibility. So I do, I guess I am just really fascinated by whether or not Kyler Murray can be back at a safe decision-making matrix as a quarterback, and if the legs come back for him to scramble and extend plays. That part, I think, is really what I need to see before I jump as far as you're willing to jump with Kyler.

The athleticism is a question. Yeah, he's been in our lives for so long, but I continue to just think of him as like a young quarterback. He's one of those guys that's going to feel like he's 25 forever, even though he's clearly not. I feel like he looks the same. Yeah, I think if we did a side by side, it wouldn't be like Obama before and after leaving office.

It would be like, yeah, he looks exactly like he did when he got drafted with Kyler Murray. But entering age 29 season, I'm actually, this is an interesting sort of league-wide theme to keep an eye and it's just like the quarterbacks who have that athleticism, when does it dip? We usually just pick 30, I think, because it was a round number. But is it 30?

Is it after five years? Is it after a certain number of rushing attempts? Even looking at a guy like Jalen Hertz or even someone like Lamar Jackson, like these are going to be things we look at here going forward with some of these quarterbacks who have been so dynamic at times with their legs? So I think that's a fair question. You're right. I think if it doesn't work out, we'll look at it and we'll go, Kyler Murray isn't the same athlete he was when we remember him a few years ago. but the guy who's got to be feeling the heat here,

I was thinking, Deonte, Kevin O'Connell's got a lot on the line, I think, this year with this move. Like, I think we can agree, Kevin O'Connell's a very good coach. I think if he were available next offseason and I needed a head coach and I was an owner, I would say, let's call Kevin O'Connell.

I think he's going to be better than most of the guys there. But when you're saying things like, quarterbacks don't fail organizations, organizations fail quarterbacks. I can already see the graphics with his face on it, you know. And everybody loves it and is giving you credit. Finally, someone's sane and say, oh, it's not the quarterback's fault.

It's the organization's fault. When you're hugging the opposing quarterback after games and whispering sweet nothings into Anthony Richardson's ear and you're just kind of this media darling when you're going 14 and 3, well, I don't know if others have noticed. I've noticed now that you are essentially benching your first round pick, you know? Yeah. I mean, there's no way around that. Like, honestly, there's really no way around that.

Yeah. They could have went out and tried to go get a Kirk cousins and said, hey, you know, we're just familiar with Kirk. We're giving him an opportunity to both teach JJ McCarthy and maybe show some of that know how he has in the offense for the first couple of weeks or at least through training camp. And then we'll see what ultimately comes of JJ McCarthy's, you know, year two as a full-time starter, right?

You go get Kyler Murray. You're kind of saying both by the differences in their play styles and what we've seen from Kyler Murray at his best, Kevin O'Connell, I think, is not going out to reach that far outside of the typical prototypes that he's coached and dealt with in Minnesota unless there was a directive that we are not putting JJ McCarthy on the field unless we absolutely have to, meaning Kyler's got to get hurt again for JJ to see this field. I think that that part's pretty clear to me. Absolutely. Like, this isn't a, hey, he needs one year to learn and take a step back. You can't spend it because the difference between Kyler Murray and the other options is that if Kyler Murray plays well next year, he could be your question.

quarterback for the next three years, for the next five years. I think that's probably part of the reason why they found Kyler Murray appealing as a quarterback candidate versus like you mentioned, some of the other guys, whether it's Kirk Cousins or Gino Smith or whoever. So I feel like there should be an expectation unless Kyler Murray, to your point, just looks different physically where we say he's not the same guy. There should be an expectation that we see him play the best football of his career under Kevin O'Connell.

Like I don't think that's unfair. Kevin O'Connell, if you just put all of Kyler Murray's offensive coaches on the board and say who's the best one, I think we would probably pick Kevin O'Connell. He's got Justin Jefferson. The offensive line might not be elite, but he's got two good tackles. It should be good enough there. And so that is my expectation for Kyler Murray is that I'm going to go into next year thinking as long as he's right physically and there's not this injury scare or anything like that, that Kevin O'Connell, if he's the coach that he's supposed to be, the reputation that I do think he has earned, to a degree that Kyler Murray should play the best football of his career next year. But if he doesn't, then we may reassess Kevin O'Connell because now you're talking about, well, was he actually that great with Sam Donald? Because Donald went to the Seahawks and played maybe better than he did with the Vikings. They drafted a quarterback. That was a disaster.

Kyler Murray went there. It didn't work out. Then I think we're going to be having those types of conversations about Kevin O'Connell. So a lot on the line for him, I feel like, in 2026. Absolutely. And honestly, I would probably, if you support with Kevin O'Connell, and you can't say this to your ownership, you can't say this to the media because of how the second half of last season played out.

But to me internally, I'm looking at our offensive staff and saying, hey, forget the Sam Darnel thing and all of that and trying to replicate what we just saw in Seattle. Let's try to get a hot first half of the season the way the Indianapolis had with Daniel Jones. That I know will buy us another year, right? Because it confirms what we already think of him reputationally, right? Great quarterback developer.

guy who can maximize skill sets, someone who is malleable enough to be able to change some of the DNA pieces of his offense to be able to match what he wants or what he can get out of his quarterback. And I think if you just get a run where Kyler Murray is putting up, you know, averaging over 320 passing yards or, you know, 360, you know, yards of total offense between his running and throwing and he's not turning the ball over a bunch and not taking sacks, that to me, I think, is success for all parties, right? especially with how competitive the NFC North is going to be.

And I do think that while they all are pretty closely clustered, as I mentioned, I do think that Minnesota is probably in a more tenuous spot because they've lost a bit of depth this offseason, especially defensively, because of what they've had to do to get cap compliant. But I'm really fascinated. I think for me with Kevin O'Connell in the arc of his time as a head coach to prove that not only can he reclaim a guy like Kyler Murray and be able to get the kind of hot offensive start

that I would prognosticate could happen at the time. the absolute best version of Kyler Murray in Minnesota. But I think bigger than that, to be able to show that you can change your offense significantly again, it's one thing to make an adjustment between, you know, Kirk Cousins and J.J. McCarthy. It's another thing to bring in a guy like Kyler Murray who has tried to play many different styles of quarterbacks, right?

Whether it's been the big time extender, more of a pocket guy, someone who's tried to push the ball downfield a bunch to taking a lot of, you know, quick game and RPO's and stuff like that, when, you know, when Clayton Adams first got to, and, excuse me, Drew Petting, and Clayton Adams first got to Arizona as his offensive play callers, right? So there are a lot of different things that we've seen from Kyler. I don't know if any of them are particularly present

in Kevin O'Connell's typical style of offense. So to me, that's really going to be the thing. Is can Kevin O'Connell prove that he can take the stuff that Kyler did at his best, hone in on the things that he was struggling with over the last two seasons, and really be able to kind of flesh out a much more balanced stable version of Kyler because we really haven't had an opportunity to see that really outside of like maybe once or twice over the last five years. Yeah, it's a good point. It's not just plug and play. Oh, he's a perfect scheme fit for

for Kevin O'Connell. This is a, this is what the money's for situation for. All right, he has a certain skill set. He has a certain talent level. It might not fit exactly what you want to do. Figure it out. This is what the offseason's for. This is what training camps for so that when you get to next season, you have a system where Kyler Murray can play well. And he has had, like he's had six to eight weeks stretches where he's looked like a top 10 quarterback. Yeah. Top eight quarterback. Maybe top five.

Yeah. I mean, there have been times where we've been in October and it's like, should Kyler Murray be in the MVP conversation? Those have been podcast topics over the years. Now it's a matter of, all right, when the dust settles after 17 weeks or 17 games and 18 weeks, how much has the team won? He hasn't won a playoff game. His teams have been unsuccessful. That hasn't been all on him. but he certainly is partially responsible for that.

So, yeah, all of a sudden, the Vikings become a very intriguing team. I'm telling you, like, we might get to August, and I might pick them to win the division. I really think they have a chance to be one of those surprise teams in 2026. I'm kind of bullish on the setup. They're over under for wins is eight and a half. I'm like, they won nine last year with that quarterback situation.

I think they're going to win more than nine games next year. So I think if you're a Vikings fan, you have reason to be excited for the potential for this team next season. You touched on McCarthy earlier. What does this mean for him? What is next year? Where is he two years from now? Three years from now? Is he finished as a starter in Minnesota unless Kyler Murray gets injured?

Would anyone think about trading for him? Is there a chance he comes back at some point? All right. Now Murray goes down for a month and, oh, my God, McCarthy came in and he looks like a different player. Where are you? and just what the future is going to look like for this guy. I think going into last year, it was like, JJ McCarthy is actually,

it feels so weird to say now, but I do remember having this conversation. Jay J.G. McCarthy is one of the guys who can swing this NFL season. That was the conversation going into last season. And now it's just like. He kind of did without disappointing Minnesota was, you know, offensively. I think that, you know, for whatever it was,

whatever the conversations that were being had with Anthony Richardson last off season, when Daniel Jones was coming into Indianapolis, needs to be the exact same conversation that we're having now about JJ McCarthy, because they just fill very similar spaces right now on their respective rosters. So I would not be surprised at all if it becomes clear during training camp that, hey, you know, JJ's fighting and he's really applying himself the same way we were talking about with Anthony Richardson.

Last off season, you get in the preseason. And hey, man, there actually looks like there's a little something there. There's a little buzz. There's something to feel good about. And then it just becomes clear as the rest of OTAs, mini camp, training camp goes on, that there is a big difference between the consistency you're getting out of your veteran versus what you're getting out of this young guy that you hoped to become your franchise quarterback. And with just where the lows were with JJ, when everybody in the league and everybody in the media was paying attention

because I do think over the last month, maybe month and a half, you started to see some things kind of even out a little bit. And you found a little bit better rhythm against weaker competition. later on in the year. But I do think ultimately, this is JJ McCarthy playing out the string, put on a smile, stay away from the resistance bands,

right? So that way you're not in the same situation at Anthony Richardson was in, you know? And then maybe you can be a mid-season trade target, but I think most realistically, you try to hang around for a year,

and then your agent comes up around this time next season and says, all right, we're ready to start looking for a place that you can offload us so we can get a second chance to kind of kickstart this career. I think that's how

this ultimately plays out. I got to say, that resistance band thing has really stuck with me, Deontag. I got the little rotator cuff issue, you know, and they sent you home with the band and tied to the doorknob. And I'm like, should I be wearing goggles with this? Like, should I be wearing a helmet with this? Every time I do it, I'm like, I don't know. Do I need to take extra precautions?

Like, poor Anthony Richardson, again, I still need to read the deep dive of what happened there with him in the resistance band. But I'm with you. I am not buying anything about this is an actual competition. Now maybe I'll be wrong. I've been wrong before. I'll be wrong again. Maybe we'll get to September and you'll say,

Sheal, you've totally misread that situation. J.J. McCarthy actually beat out Kyler Murray. I can't get there in my head. I mean, J.J. McCarthy has been in the building. They've seen more about him and learned more about him than we know just watching the actual games that he's played in, the actual dropbacks that he's had. They've seen him in practice. They've seen him in the classroom.

They've seen him in the building every single day. And they're making this type of move. I don't think you make this type of move unless it's just something totally weird happens where McCarthy just looks incredible and Murray looks terrible. Maybe there's a physical thing and it's just undeniable. Then McCarthy is, oh my gosh, if it's anything close, Kyler Murray is going to be the started quarterback for them in week one and throughout the course of this season, unless they lose a lot of games or Murray plays really poorly.

So we'll see what happens with JJ McCarthy going forward. a very strange start to his career where he's just like, you know, he wasn't, he gets injured, he's not playing, he comes back, he's a swing character, it doesn't go well, he's got a couple moments and they fire their GM

and it's like Kevin O'Connell seems to want these veteran quarterbacks over him every single year. Like if he was totally sold on him, you wouldn't be making moves like this and now you just kind of don't know what his career looks like in Minnesota or anywhere else. So that will be another interesting one to watch. But this

is another one that's fun just in terms of league-wide storylines. It's Kyler Murray on the Vikings. That is a big-time storyline once we get to August, once we get to the start of the 20-26 season. All right, we're going to take one more break. We're going to come back and we're going to hit on some teams where I feel like we didn't give them their due in the frenzy of free agency where we had them written down a bunch of times. Hey, let's talk about this team. And then all of a sudden, you had a Max Crosby situation. You had something else and we said we have to pivot. So we're going to get to. them today. Let's take a break. We come back. We get to those teams.

All right. We are back here on the Ringer NFL show. The New York Giants, Deontay. I mean, they got like a brand new football team, it feels like. Kind of signed a lot of guys in free agency, brought in some X Ravens, John Harbaugh. They've got the new coach. They've got the new offensive staff with Matt Nagy as their offensive coordinator. They've got DeNard Wilson as their defensive coordinator. Some of the moves they've made. They bring in Isaiah likely, the tight end from Baltimore. Jordan Stout, the punter from Baltimore.

Patrick Ricard, the fullback from Baltimore. All those guys rejoined John Harbaugh with the Giants. Then they signed Darnell Mooney, the wide receiver, to a one-year deal to add to their receiving core there. They bring back offensive tackle, Germain Illuminaur. They bring in Tremaine Edmins, who the Bears released, and they let Wendell Robinson go. They let cornerback Cordale Flot go.

and they bring in cornerback Greg Newsom. A very active team over free agency. Where does this leave them, Deonti? Does this look like a team that knows what they're doing? Are you bullish on them as a sleeper going into 2026? Are you like, I'm not really sure what the plan is here? Where do you stand here with the New York Giants after kind of that first wave of free agency?

I'm glad that you use the word activity because the first thing I thought about was the classic John. wouldn't quote. I don't know if you're familiar with it. Yeah, of course. Never mistake activity for achievement, right? I think is the word word for it, right? And I do think about that when I look at this depth chart. It does not mean that the players they brought in

were bad players. It does not mean that the moves they made were the wrong moves. But I look at this team, and if you're asking me to project out where they're going to land by December of this season, I don't know if it's going to be, I don't know if the Johns are going to be the sexiest team

in the NFCEs. Right? I think chances are that they're probably a middling team, right? I do think that, like, if you want to start with the offense and just look at bringing in a guy like Isaiah likely, I think that's a legitimate chance. He has a legitimate chance to be a difference-making talent, especially in Matt Nagy's offense, right? You can take all the Travis Kelsey plays and give it to a guy who is just as if not more dynamic, right, with the ball in his hands as Travis Kelsey has been over the last handful of seasons, right? You bring in Darno Mooning and Calvin Austin, who are pretty duplicitous, but I think that ultimately

what you're signaling by making those two moves is saying that we're going to spend a lot of time in 11 personnel and we want to make sure that if Mooney is not 100% healthy that we have a guy to backstop him, right? Because you know that Atlanta lost Mooney to a serious injury last season. And then with Pat Ricard, I don't know what to make of that,

man. In Baltimore, he kind of became a bit player kind of as a year as went on. I don't know how often you're going to see New York, you know, in 22 personnel, or, you know, something like that where you get a lot of usage out of him. But he is a good blocker to have. And maybe if they do want to lean on a run game, I think maybe bringing a guy like Pat Ricard could also be a signal

that they are looking at a difference-making running back in the draft. And if they get one of those, maybe they do lean a little bit more in some heavier personnel to be able to control the line of scrimmage on early downs. And then defensively, I think this is really where that activity versus achievement thing shows up most, right? Chamein Edmins is not the same player he was during his last year

in Buffalo before he got the big payday from Chicago. Certainly, I think his play kind of waned over his last two. years in Chicago. I don't know how much of a difference maker you're going to get from him there. And Greg Newsom, I think, I was excited about what he could have been in Jacksonville after the trade last year. And things just never really turned in. It never really turned in a big time difference making play, even though Jacksonville's defense was playing like one of the better units in the league at times last season. Right. So I kind of line all that up to say that, like, I don't know if New York is a materially better team. I think that a lot of this is,

let's try to patch up what could have been obvious weaklings for us and entrust that John Harbaugh and Matt Nagy and Donard Wilson are able to cover for what other kind of issues may come up. I got to say, I love that John Harbaugh. It feels like his priority since he first started talking to the Giants was to make sure he was making it crystal clear that he's running the show. Yes.

And like Joe Shane is his puppet. Yes. This has just been such a theme from like the, first time he spoke to them to then. Oh, he's thinking about, you know, joining the Titans unless he gets this in his contract that he's reporting to ownership. And then, oh, well, he wants a certain level of control here. And he's got different suitors.

You know, he'll go somewhere where he can have that control. And then free agency starts in there like, Isaiah likely. Yes. Punter, fullback. Pabricar. Yes. Bring me all the X Ravens that I used to coach here. I want to make it clear.

I am picking the players for this team. And that's not actually going to be Joe Shane. So, yeah, that, I almost feel like that's his top priority. And then priority, too, is like thinking about the actual roster. Well, I think to your point, right, I think that this is certainly shown just in the signings that they made because everybody they brought in is a known commodity in the league, right? There was no high upside swing. There's no, hey, this is a guy who got limited snaps at his last spot.

We bring them in. We're going to give them an expanded role because we think that we're about to get a guy who's really hitting the peak of his trajectory. as he comes in here. Isaiah likely is probably the only guy you can make that argument for, right? Who might have been a breakout player had he not started out to season hurt? I think that you can make an argument there,

but everybody else, Drenno Mooney, known commodity, even when he's healthy, right? Slot receiver type, same with Calvin Austin, right? I think I wrote about it in a mock draft last week because I gave Pittsburgh a slot type receiver, and the big thing there was like, they gave Calvin Austin a long runway

to prove that his speed would be a difference-making factor for an offense. it just hasn't really materialized, right? But again, you kind of know who he is as a player coming in. Ardarius Washington as safety depth. Greg Newsom as a corner coming in. Tremaine Edmins, these are all guys who are probably going to give you at their median B-minus level play.

And that sounds very much like an older head coach, who has a lot of personnel control coming in and saying, give me guys who I've watched on tape, and I know exactly who and what they are. That's what I want to start off, you know, tenure here in New York. And I think that that's what we're going to see. It's probably about a C plus to be minus level team. And their ceiling is really going to come back to whether or not you believe that Jackson Dart is going to be a dynamic, I mean a dynamic difference making

talent in the league. And I think that the jury is still out on that. Well, that's the big thing. I think you can look at these moves. And if you're a Giants fan listening saying, you guys are being too harsh, I think you can look at it and say, there's enough here to get a good evaluation of Jackson Dart. You know, like Deonté said, C plus. us, I would pretty much agree with that. This isn't like, oh, my gosh, you'll plug any quarterback in. This is going to be a great offense. This isn't, oh, my gosh, the quarterback has no chance because he's got nothing around

him. I think it looks like it could be a pretty good offensive line. You know, you stay healthy. Always have that caveat. But I think it's certainly an above average offensive line. If you don't even love them, you could say, all right, competent, not above average offensive line. But that's the kind of territory we're talking about.

So that's a good thing. Malik neighbors, you assume he comes back healthy. Now you've got neighbors, Slayton, Mooney as your top three wider receivers. That's not bad. That's not bad. You know, especially if Mooney comes back healthy. You have a chance there. I'm with you unlikely.

The likely thing is just a little, it's weird to me because maybe it is just injury related, like you said. But it's like he had Lamar Jackson last year. He had Todd Monkin, who I think was a good offensive coach. You had like a situation where you needed someone to catch the football. And he had 27 catches for 307 yards. But I'm still with you. You watch him and you go, there's untapped potential here. This guy could be a really good tight end.

So I had no issue with that signing. I like that signing. I was excited to see where Isaiah likely was going to go. So I like that one. So I look at the whole situation. I go, there's enough there where if Jackson Dart is the quarterback that Giants fans want him to be, that there's enough there to get a fair evaluation. Now, I will say this.

And I've said it before. The Matt Nagy hired to me was uninspired and the offensive coaching staff. Nagy, Greg Roman, Brian Callahan. I mean, it just is like you got all the coaches that the previous people who employed them were like, we don't want to employ them anymore. They're not good enough here. And so now you kind of got a lot of cooks in the kitchen.

Again, if you want to spin it, you could say, oh, a lot of veteran coaches from different schemes. This is great for Jackson Dart. We've seen that go sideways in the NFL all the time. You say these are a lot of guys with contacts in the media and egos and career aspirations and ideas for what works on offense. And so now this is, you know, where John Harbaugh has got to be the one to say, all right, we're going to do it this way.

Nagy's doing it. All right, Roman, you're maybe doing the run game stuff, whatever, figuring it out with all of those guys with a second year quarterback so that his head's not spinning. And he's saying, oh, this guy told me this. This guy told me this. This guy's always in my ear in practice saying you do it this way. But the other guy says it do it.

Like those things are very real in the end. NFL when you put together coaching staffs like this one. So yeah, I'm interested to see what that offense looks like. And we're on the same page with the defense. I mean, I don't want to break a stream of consciousness. What I do want to throw this question at you before we move on from New York. So looking at Wins lines from Fanduil, the Giants are at seven and a half, at least they were about a week ago, right before the first waiver free agency. Have you seen anything in these free agency moves that will legitimately bump them up to eight and a half? And if not, are you betting the over or under on seven and a half line that they have now.

I am an under. I'm glad you asked because I looked at the same thing. They won four games last year. So even if you say, hey, they're improved from last year and better coaching situation. I think that's true. I don't think they're four games better than they were. Who do you think is the worst team in the division? If you had to say right now, who is it going to pay?

It probably is New York. Honestly, I think I'd say it's New York. No, I think it's very close between Bay and Washington. I think you can make a legitimate argument in either direction. But I think I might still say New York, just because of how despondent the team looked as early as it looked despondent. Even when Jackson Dart was 100% healthy, not taking a major beating, right?

And all the guys hadn't gotten hurt. It still looked like New York was headed to disaster in a way that even Washington, I think, had shown more confidence with Marcus Mariotta and Jaden Daniel. So I'd still say they're at the bottom. We're aligned there. Yeah, I think if I had to pick a team to finish in last place in the NFC East, as of now, we're in mid-March.

again, this could change by the time. And it's not a negative. It's not a negative. This team could legitimately go 7 and 10, and I think that that's a success, given what it was last year, especially in year two of your young quarterback being the starter and year one under John Harbaugh. So I don't want to position this as though I'm saying, like, all these moves were worthless and all these moves do absolutely nothing for the Giants. Having known commodities is not a negative here, right?

I think that this is more having a conversation about where this team was last season, where this team has really been for the last two seasons and then taking the names that you're dropping in through free agency and saying, all right, given where the roster was already at, unless you're going to tell me that Jackson, Darson all pro quarterback next year, or Abdul Carter and Brian Burns are both pro-bowl quality edge rushers

that are major ceiling raisers for this team. Chances are this is probably a 6 and 11 to 7 and 10 team, which is fine. But if we're talking about resetting the hierarchy of the NFC, I don't think in New York has done enough to kind of factor into that conversation. seven and ten with dart playing well and maybe still making place with his legs without playing like he's ready to get his head knocked off every scramble

that would be a nice season for the New York Giants to your point that's all right direction beat Philadelphia once give your fans something to be excited about in the division I think that that will be a success like you said Abdul Carter has 12 sacks jay everyone was talking about John Harbaugh's culture. Jackson Darts playing well. The roster still needs more work. And so you're finishing 7 and 10, but you're a frisky team.

That would be a great outcome for the New York Giants. So yeah, I have a hard time. Man, if they got to 8, if they get to 8, 9, if they make the playoffs, John Harbaugh is going to win Coach of the Year. I mean, I've got to be top two. I would imagine if they were. I would think he would win Coach of the year depending on what else happens. I still think they kind of need another

offseason of work. All right. That's where we're out with the Giants next team. The Green Bay Packers, who for as long as I have been a ringer employee and doing this podcast, I've been like, Packers can win the Super Bowl. I like Matt LaFlor more than anyone else does. I like Jordan Love more than anyone else does. Don't sleep on the Packers. I'm looking over there beyond my desk. I still got the cheesehead in the office from the Solac days. But Deontay, I think this is the year. I might be on the other side. this Packers thing. When I feel like it's gone under the radar, they have lost a lot of players this offseason offensively. Elkton Jenkins, Rashid Walker, two offensive linemen, Romeo Dobbs,

one of their top three, two or three wide receivers, Malik Willis, the backup who could come in and keep them afloat and really win games with. Defensively, Rishon Gary, Kingsley and Ibarre, Colby Wooden, you know, not a household name, but still played a lot of snaps. Quay Walker, They lost seven players who played over 400 snaps for them last season. And the additions are linebackers I hear Franklin, cornerback Benjamin St. Juist, and defensive tackle, Javan Hargrave. And oh, by the way, Jonathan Gannon replaces Jeff Hathley as defensive coordinator.

I don't know why I hear that is something derogatory. You heard me say his name many times over the years. Let's be honest. And Rich Pisachia. It felt snide, even though you were delivering it as snide, it 100% came across that way. We'll get to him in a minute. Rich Pisascia, special teams coordinator,

left them surprisingly. There's weird reporting around that. They're like, we didn't think he was going to leave. All of a sudden, he leaves. Quarterbacks coach Sean Mannion, he leaves. Deante, I have a hard time. And again, it's mid-March. We still have the draft.

But remember, they don't have a first-round pick. They have no picks in the top 50. They got 52 is their first. pick. They have two picks in the top 100. So I'm looking at it going, what is the case for the Packers being better in 2026 than they were in 2025? Am I wrong? Are you worried about this team? How should Packers fans feel about what has been an offseason in which they've had a lot of roster turnover? I didn't come in with the idea that I would make a bit out of copying a championship winning coaches quotes. But the thing I'm thinking about here with the Packers is what Kurt Signetti said,

production over potential. It's time for the Packers to produce. We can't keep talking about what Jordan Love could be. We can't keep talking about, oh, if this guy was healthy, oh, if this guy wasn't dinged up, oh, if the offensive line had maintained its continuity, then if this, if this, if that. And I'm not saying that those weren't all legitimate reasons

why this team has fallen short of being able to compete for a championship the way that you, myself, many people here at the Ringer, and really just across the NFL media, have expected this team to break through. It's not a mistake that people feel that way. There is still a quality roster here, even with the departures, right?

They've always been pretty deep on the offensive line. And the way that they've designed this organization is to continue to take swings at O-line. So that way they always have, you know, somebody behind a guy like a Rashid Walker, somebody behind someone like an Elton Jenkins. So that way, you're never going to really see the Packers have an legitimate weak link up front.

They might not be star-level players, but they rarely have weak-links up front. They burn the benefit of the doubt there. Exactly. That's true. Usually somebody just steps up who you haven't heard of. And you're like, oh, that guy's fine on the offensive line. You're right. Good enough. Same thing with wide receiver.

Right. They've been one of the better wide receiver drafting teams. Now, have they had a guy since Devante Adams to reach the ceilings of a Devante Adams? No. But what they have done is bring in a Christian Watson who is flash star-like potential. You've seen Jaden Reed show that he can be a wide receiver one in terms of the amount of target share that he can get when he is healthy.

right? So I think that if you look at their wide receiver room, you say, hey, someone like Romeo Dobbs leaves, does it hurt a bit? Yes, but this is exactly what we drafted Matthew Golden for. And given our track record, we have reason to be confident that someone like Golden can show up and be another field stretch or another guy who can work in the intermediate areas. And you have Tucker Kraft, you know, in theory will come back 100% healthy. And you and I were talking about it over the first like six weeks of the season. He was the best tight end in football.

He was. Yeah. My favorite Titans also. It was Trey McBride, but for the first six weeks of the season, Tucker Craft was moving around like Rob Kronkowski. Like, that's not, that's not me overstating it. That is not me looking back, you know, with rose color lenses at his season. He was legitimately an unguaritable force. So you say, we get him healthy.

We know what we already have with the offensive coffers. There's enough here to win. And that's true now, just as it's been true for the last three or so seasons. The thing now is, Jordan Love can't have a cold spell, right? That can't happen. You can't have inexplicable turnovers. You can't have the inexplicable, you know, Panthers game where you're not able to, you know, dial it up in the red zone and get over the hump.

And then on the other side of the ball, yes, they have lost some talent, but you know what they do have, they have Micah Freakin Parsons. Yeah. Okay. And if he's the player that we were talking about all offseason last year, about how, you know, a team goes out and trades with this guy, and it instantly changes their outlook in terms of Super Bowl contention. I have no reason to believe that he's not still going to be that player,

even though he's coming off of an ACL injury. and they have enough, I think, on the back end as well to be able to continue to force turnovers and play really aggressively in zone coverage the way that they had over the last couple seasons with Jeff Halfley. Ultimately, though, it's just getting it done. And I think it's an unsatisfying position

to have to take in the off season, right? Because it sounds very amorphous because what does that mean? But ultimately, I want to see this team at the top of the NFC North. I want to see this team get a top two seed in the NFC and go out and at least vie for a shot for the final four. Can you go make a conference championship game? If you can do that, then all the moves, all the losses, you know, to the depth of this roster is 100% worth it.

The trade for Michael Parsons is 100% worth it. Short of that, then yeah, I do think we have to come back to the table and say, well, what has the Jordan Love era actually been in Green Bay? And that doesn't lay all the blame at his feet, but I think it does kind of illustrate the fact that this team has hung around being one of the next ones up for a little while. and it's entirely possible if they don't make a big break in 2026 that they're going to end up being left behind by some of the other young upstart teams

that are coming up in the league. Yeah, I mean, they've won, it's weird because the floor's never been low with them with the floor. I've given him credit for that over the years, and I think the floor is still high as long as you have the floor and you have Jordan Love,

I don't think this is going to be a bad team, but they've won nine games or fewer in three of the last four seasons. So it has been kind of that high floor, but man, they haven't quite reached those heights that maybe some people like myself were expecting in some of those seasons. So I think that's how I look at it going into this year as well, where the floor is high. You made a strong case there for settle down shield.

It's not, you know, it's not going to be that bad when you look at this. I think one of the things as you were talking that stood out is that like their upgrades, their improved play, their replacements have to be from guys who are kind of already on the roster or if they end up hitting, you know, mid-round picks, late-round picks this year. It's not like they went out and we're like, hey, we got this player and this player, and they're going to be upgrades and they're going to replace. No, they're counting on their player development. And to your point, especially in places like the offensive line, like at wide receiver,

they've done a good job not saying, hey, this player's leaving now. We have to replace them. No, you're thinking about that a year ahead, two years ahead. We've had this guy in the pipeline. He's looked good in practice. He's been part of our development program. that's really what they have to count on this year to not take a step back in my opinion. And like you said with Michael Parsons, last year, you know, they were 19th in defensive DVOA.

He played in what was it 13 or 14 games for that. Yeah, and when he came over, he wasn't playing a bunch of snaps. We can talk more about Jonathan Gannon at a later date. I think that's a downgrade in terms of defensive coordinator. I do too. Yeah, happily. But I am fascinated though. like there was one thing I will say about Jonathan Gannon in 2022

is that he let his edges cook, right? You got a great year from Hassan Redick in Philadelphia. You got a really strong, you got a really strong season from Montesos, not Montesol, excuse me, Josh Sweat as well, right, on the edge. I think Javon Hargrave, when he exited Minnesota, one of his tweet said, hey, you know, you're playing in Brian Flores defense.

He doesn't let his defensive tackles cook. The one thing that was absolutely true. Is that what he said? Oh, I missed that. The one thing that was absolutely true of Javon Hargrave. right when he was in Philadelphia with John Gannon is that guys got to cook. It might have come at the expense of some run defense every once in a while. It might have come at the expense of giving up some explosive plays every once in a while.

But I do think that if you're Javon Hague, Devante Wyatt, Lucas Van Ness and Michael Parsons as that front four, you feel like in this scheme, my defensive coordinator is going to let me go fly. And maybe that is what this team needs. That's how this team is built is that their front four has to be able to go fly and get to the quarterback and get a lot of production in the backfield if this team wants to be contenders. Yeah, let's see what that defensive depth chart looks like.

After the draft, we'll revisit it, see where we think that Packers defense is going to be. All right. Last team, Deonté, we wanted to get to that we haven't discussed. The Cincinnati Bengals in free agency, they had Boyet Maffe, the edge defender from the Seahawks. They had Brian Cook, the safety from the Chiefs. They lose Trey Hendrickson. They lose Joseph Asai. On the defensive side of the ball, they also bring in Jonathan Allen, who's another player who got released.

from the Minnesota Vikings, and then they bring back a couple offensive linemen, Dalton Reisner and Orlando Brown. I think we know the deal with the Bengals, that their offense, if Joe Burroughs healthy and the receivers are healthy, is going to be pretty good with a chance to be great if everybody stays healthy and everything works out well.

It's a matter of how good their defense can be. Not saying you need them to be top five, top 10. This is the classic, great offense. can your defense be just good enough to kind of keep you afloat type team? And it wasn't good enough last year. Rank 30th in DVOA, 29th in EPA per drive, 29th in success rate. Maybe they got a little bit better in the second half of the season. But you know what?

I like bigger samples. And in the big sample, that defense was not good enough. So had they made the types of moves that make you think maybe they could get to like the 21st best defense? And if the offense is really good, this is a team that can buy for the AFC North Crown or at least can be a playoff team in the AFC. Football is more than just reading dev charts and past reduction, but you cannot look at this too deep and tell me that this looks like even the 21st best defense in the NFL. Right. Like, you know what this team looks like to me?

It looks like a team that should be sitting at home wishing that maybe it did something with Trey Hendrickson over the last two off seasons to either keep him long term or to go get some draft cap. back. This would have been a great draft for them to say, hey, maybe we lost Ray Hendrickton before the 2025 season and it really stung to lose the production that he has given us. But you know what we do have an additional first round pick in 2026 or an additional second round pick in 26 that we can package up to go get two first round picks in this draft. So we can hit defense twice. Jonathan Allen is not the same player that he was in Washington, right?

Like he's not, he can still in spurts make a big impact on games. he's not going to be a game record like he was at his best, at his healthiest. Boy amafé, I think, is one of the, like, analytics-wise, I love him, right? You're going to get great numbers in terms of the pass rush run rate, right? His pressure rate's always going to be high. He's always going to be in close proximity of the quarterback.

And I do think that they need that, especially if you're losing a guy like train Hendrickson, but that's not a potential A-level pass-rusher in my mind, right? And then you look at what was really a struggle for them, was the second level of their defense all last year. The linebacker play was, poor. They gave up a lot of big runs and passes over the middle of the

field. Teams are really able to pick at mismatches at the second level of this defense because they're playing young guys there. I probably would feel a lot better about this team if they had a Zaire Franklin or a Devin Lloyd or a Tremaine Edmonds. None of those three guys are players

that I'm absolutely in love with as a middle linebackers, but they certainly would give you a much higher floor defensively as your signal callers or a Quay Walker or a Kobe Dean for that for that perspective, right? I don't know how they didn't get in on any of those guys.

Like, for those handful of guys to all be elsewhere, two of them to be playing on the same team and Cincinnati walks out of free agency with no starting level linebacker play, that's really concerning to me. And while I like Brian Cook and I think that he will be an upgrade over Gino Stone who really just played below the level

that I expected in Cincinnati, Brian Cook is one of those guys to me that, like, you have to prove to me that you're not a Steve Spagnolo type of player, right? You have to prove to me that your level of was not raised by how great Spagnolo was with his scheme and deploying you, right, in multiple ways. So there's still just too much up in the air for me to feel extremely confident about Cincinnati. That's not to say that they can't make a big move come draft day.

It's not to say that they can't try to get in on maybe bringing in some more veterans by trading away late draft capital to help patch over some things that they're still missing defensively. But if you're asking me on March 16th of 2026, if I feel like this team can recapture the magic, of 2021 and 2022, this just does not look like the defensive depth chart to do it. Yeah, they got more professional. I don't know what that the end product is going to look

that much different. I mean, and Maffa, you're paying a big number to, $20 million per year. You know, I thought he might be someone who's more around $15 million per year. And then the edge market blew up with Jim and Phillips getting 30

from the Carolina Panther. So you're playing a lot of money for a guy who turned into a rotational piece with the Seahawks last year. and I'm with you. I like his game. I think he can be a solid starter for you, but I don't know that he's going to, you know,

make a huge impact. Maybe there is upside there that is untapped and he will make a big leap here this year. But that's far from a given. I like Cook. I feel I would be really surprised if that's not a significant upgrade. But to your point,

you got to be careful with those chiefs defensive backs. Sometimes they go somewhere else and are never heard from again. So that's another one that's up in the air a little bit as well. And you mention it with the lineback. backers, that's still going to be an issue. So I don't necessarily have an issue with any of the moves that they did make. I think they got better.

It's just a question of how much better did they get? Now, unlike the Packers, they've got draft capital. They've got the 10th overall pick. They've got 41. They've got 72. Can you nail some of those picks? Because I've said this for years. The Bengals, like, have looked ahead and said,

we might have this player leave on defense. Let's draft someone a year early. had the right process there, and it just feels like they've missed all those picks. Every single time. Maybe not worse than Shamar Stewart this past year. Yeah, I mean, that was one year. He gave them like basically nothing. Right.

You know, all year. Miles Murphy was giving them nothing, you know, since he's been there. It's even their defensive backs, I think outside of like DJ Turner, who is flashed like that maybe he can legitimately become a difference-making corner and at his best, it's certainly shown that he can kind of translate. some of his raw athletic traits in a playing tight coverage, you just have not seen anything close to consistency at any level of this defense,

especially in the absence in 2026 of Trey Hendrickson. I'm really nervous about what this team is going to look like. And I was thinking about the Hendrickson then. I wonder if they knew this is what his actual contract was going to look like, or if Hendrickson, if he could have looked into a crystal ball and said, all right, I'm going to get $20 million per year. Would they just, would this have been an easy extension to do? like before the season, I don't know.

Maybe the Bengals didn't want to give him that kind of guaranteed money. I think that was the reporting that that wasn't the case. But you almost look at it. And if Trey Hendrickson was a free agent from another team, we probably would have looked at it and been like, oh, the Bengals should sign Trey Hendrickson this all season. Everything about that negotiation is cutting your nose to spite your face. Yeah.

They never were able to trade him like you said at some point. It was like, all right, if you're not going to. And his injury, that made it tricky last year. If he was healthy the whole season, maybe you are able to trade him before the trade deadline and get something back for them, but they end up getting nothing back for him. They don't get an extension, and here they are needing defensive players. So that is not great either.

I will say this for the Bengals, because I was wondering, I was trying to remember, I know they had some downs, they had some ups once Joe Burrow came back. I was looking at the numbers. If you look at their offensive performance just when Joe Burrow played last year, seventh in success rate, ninth in EPA per pass play. And that's now been pretty consistent over the last, I'd say, three years. That when it's Burrow, Chase Higgins, I know there are questions about, is that how you build a team? I mean, you're probably going to have a top eight offense with those guys.

And that might be on the low end. They might be. They can have a top three offense. By the time we get to August. It can be a top three offense on a year-to-year basis. Absolutely. So that gives you the ceiling. It's just a matter of, can Burrough stay healthy?

Can you get enough from this defense? I think they've got a very big draft here where you don't want to say, we got to nail the draft and these rookies have to play for us right away. But that is something that could kind of swing their fortunes right away here. If they can get like two players on defense who can be either good starters or competent starters, that could kind of change their fortunes a little bit. And that sounds easy. Like, of course they can get that.

It's not that easy. We fool ourselves into thinking that's easy with the draft every single year. So they're a very interesting team to look at when we look at next month's draft. All right. Bengals, Packers, Giants. there you go. We got to some teams we haven't talked about yet on this podcast with the free agency frenzy. We'll get to some more teams in the future. Thank you to Deontay Lee. Thanks to everyone for listening. Thanks to Christopher Sutton for producing. Stefano Sanchez on video and additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgo.

I'm Shil Kapadia. We will talk to you later this week on the Ringer NFL show. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming, gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or 1-800-Maireset. Call 1-88-7-8-8-8-8-9-7-7-7. Or visit cccppgobing.org in Connecticut or visit MDGamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-32750-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8778-8-N-Y or text Hope NY in New York for Louisiana. Call 1-8777-770-8-687.