The Ringer NFL Show - Justin Herbert on the Chargers Offense and the 2022 Season. Plus, an NFL News Roundup.

Episode Date: May 27, 2022

L.A. Chargers QB Justin Herbert joins the show to talk Brandon Staley, his offseason workouts, deep throws, and the new Chargers defense. Then Kevin, Ben, and Steven discuss the latest offseason news, including updates on Colin Kaepernick and Tua Tagovailoa. Host: Kevin Clark, Steven Ruiz, and Ben Solak Guest: Justin Herbert Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Chris Martin, and me and my buddy Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O Everything, hosting an NBA podcast called The Mismatch. They call it The Mismatch because I'm awesome and Kevin is a gigantic nerd. No, no, that's not why at all, Chris. They call it the Mishmatch because I have a brain and you're a loudmouth bozo. Good grief. Anyway, listen to our amazing NBA podcast, The Mismatch. Or don't. We really don't care.

We're probably going to win a million awards either way. Chris, we do care. So don't say that. Please subscribe and listen to the mismatch only on Spotify. Did you really call me a bozo? It is the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast. Network. I am Kevin Kark.

Join today for a bonus episode by Stephen Rie. Stephen, hello. How's it going? And Ben Solak. Hello, Ben. Howdy, team? What's up? Ben, we go from no pods for like two months to two pods in two days.

Absolutely. Yeah. You went to Europe, you saw the light, and you said, I know what I need to do professionally. I haven't been podcasting with Ben Solac enough. I was in Es France. I was an elevated. I was looking at the ocean. And I said, I need Solac in my life.

Need more Solac in my life. I need Solac. Pots is what I need. We have a special guest today. It's Justin Herbert of the Los Angeles Chargers. You guys excited? Steven, you good? You good?

You're all right? I'm cool. I'm playing it cool. So we had, as I talked about on the previous episode, we had Justin on, on Slow News Day in February and we'd asked him all the wacky questions and we talked about impractical jokers we talked about the tie,

talking about all that stuff and so when I got the opportunity to book him this week I thought we got him, let's just get him on ball. And so I brought the fellas, you two guys and we have a really, really cool discussion with him. He was excellent on so many different topics.

And, you know, So lack said in the group chat, he was worried about Stephen. Maybe we're going to have to get security to remove Stephen away from Justin Herbert. Stephen, he played it totally fine. I handled it well. How dare you, Ben? In before Stephen's first question is, how are you so good? And that's the whole question.

What's it like being the best? You ever tell Patrick that silver medals are also nice? You ever tell Tom that his legacy will last only two decades? I mean, Kevin sounds surprised that he was such a great guest. I wasn't. He's good at everything he does. I did not sound surprise. I know. I'm just, I just wanted to set up the bit. I knew he'd be a top shelf guest, and he was. So here it is. Los Angeles Chargers quarterback and MVP favorite, Justin Herbert. I join now by Los Angeles Chargers quarterback, Justin Herbert,

one of the best players in football. He's with Callaway. Justin, what's going on, man? Appreciate you guys having me. Just finished up some OTA practices and great work just off season and having fun with the guys and really looking forward to the season. So we're going to get to our time. all that in the football. Tell us what you're doing

with Callaway. You're getting fitted? Well, I actually spent a bunch of time this off-season golfing. And one of the great things that Calloway did is they let me come down to their great big facility and got fitted for some clubs. And the whole process was unlike any other that I've ever experienced. And

there's some great clubs and hopefully it's going to help my game a little bit. I swung a golf club for the first time in my life today. So I now, I'm part of this conversation. How to go? I know how golfing. Horribly. Are you kidding me? Making contact is impossible. These people are athletes, man.

Of course. Yeah. Well, I've been playing for years, Ben, and Justin's been playing for years, and we still haven't mastered it. You talked about the practice you had today. Justin, give me one thing that you're working on this offseason, any area where you're saying, okay, I'm really honing it on this type of throw, this type of trait, whatever it is. You're honing in on what, Justin? I think there's a ton to work on.

But I think the one thing that I'm really focusing in on is footwork. You know, under center, five steps, seven steps, making sure that everything times up with the routes is huge. And having time and timing with the receivers and getting to know them, their routes. You know, I think that can only help us. And so we've spent a lot of time working on that. And I think I can always get better with that. Yeah, you talked about timing with the receivers.

You've had a lot of change over the course of your quarterback career. You had three head coaches and four years at Oregon. You had a new offensive coaching staff last year, you're in the league. And now you get Shane Day back in the building. You get Joe Lombardi back in the building. You get Mike Williams back in the building. What are you looking forward to the most in terms of continuity? Like we talk about it a lot in this space. We're like, oh, he's got the same coach, the same receivers. That helps. How does it help? What's the big thing there that you're looking forward to the most? That's a great point. I think the greatest

thing so far is that we're able to pick up in these OTAs exactly where we left off. And last year having to learn this offense, it was definitely tough. And I spent way too much time trying to, you know, pick this up, this offense up. And to be able to come out here and know exactly what we're doing and have a year of film and be able to look back on that, I think that's helped us a ton. And, you know, we don't have to start from level zero anymore. We're starting way past where we were last year at this point. So I think that's been really good for our entire team.

Can I ask what was tough about the offense figuring it out in your one? Yeah, I think a lot of it was the terminology of just going through all those different coaches and everything changes and, you know, route. what you call them three or four years ago, start popping back up into your head. So you have to kind of use a different language. And at the same time, they asked the quarterback to do a lot of the mic IDs.

And I hadn't been used to that. So that's something I had to learn to continue to keep learning this year. But with Corey Lindley at Center, he's done such a great job of getting up there, making it quickly, and having the offensive line to quarterbacks, all the running back on the same page. Justin, it's pretty rare for a young quarterback to come into the NFL

and produce and be more efficient than he was in college. And my question is, how did you do that? Because that's what you've done over your first two years. Where do you think you've improved most since your days at Oregon? And do you think maybe your skill set, your game, is just more conducive to a pro-style offense? Well, I appreciate that. I think a lot of the credit needs to go to the running backs,

receivers, and tight ends, and especially the offensive line as well. To have guys like Keenan Allen and Mike Williams, Austin Echler, Jared Cook, Gerald Everett, all these guys that we've had over the years, you know, they make my job so much easier. And to have an offensive line that gives us enough time to be able to get the ball off with Corey leading that charge, and especially the coaches that we've had. You know, Shane Day, Joe Lombardi are about as smart as they get.

Having Chase Daniel and Ethan's thick in the room, I think it takes everyone to be able to accomplish those speeds. And, you know, I couldn't have done it without those guys. All right. So I want to ask about those guys a little bit, because you were insanely good on third down in the first year you started playing. And again, all of us here in the space trying to figure out who's going to be good, like, right, there's no way Justin Herbert is going to be as good on third down as he was as a rookie.

Just can't happen. And then you were better. And that threw us for a loop. So I don't have to give away all the secrets, but I want to know a little bit about the secret sauce. What do you guys do in preparation Monday to Saturday to figure out how to be so successful on third down? Is it going through film? Is it different packages, different play calls? Is it just you feeling comfortable in those gamer situations?

What is the magic bear? Well, that's really good to hear. And I think the key for us is that we put such an emphasis on it. And we have an entire day and leads into even Thursday and Friday dedicated to just third down. And so you know the plan. You watch all that film and you go out and execute. You know, you need a lot of attention to it. It's a big part of the game.

It can change the momentum of the game. So being able to convert from those third down, it's huge for us. Ben, you're going to try to sneak in to Chargers' third down day. He's going to be outside the facility to try. Let me in. Chargers third down day plus. It's a couple days now. This is what it is.

You got to throw in fourth down, too, with Staley. Third and a fourth down. Personally, as a quarterback, I love throwing it. So whether it's first or fourth, it doesn't make a big difference to me. Yeah. One thing that stands out when watching you on film is how efficiently you get through a progression. and I'm wondering, like, what kind of goes into how you decide a receiver is open,

or if he's going to come open, or when to move on to the next guy? I mean, like, I'm watching film, and I can pause and rewind. I'm watching from the all 22 ankle, and sometimes you're seeing guys come open before I even see it. Well, I think that's a great question. I think it kind of depends on who you're throwing to. One of the things that we talked about was Kenan Allen a bunch is he's going to win. And sometimes it might not be at the beginning, but he's going to find a way to get open.

And sometimes you're able to kind of wait on him and maybe wait a little bit longer than you would for another guy because you trust that he's going to get open. But at the same time, it's having a plan for each play, going through it and watching as much as you can. Just so that when you get into that moment, that opportunity, you know what you're doing. All right. I want to bring up a specific example then in terms of,

because this is not Keenan Allen, this is Jalen Guyton. And this is the like 150-yard touchdown of the Giants or however long the field was, I don't remember. Because looking at that, I see a big post clear in two safeties, and I see an overrout opening up over the middle of the field. and somebody decided not to take the over, and somebody decided to chuck the big post. So what goes into that decision?

Because to me, that's like an offensive coordinator clutching the clipboard on the sideline, cursing into the headset sort of a decision. But obviously it worked, and it was, I think, maybe a highlight play for you in the season. What goes into deciding to make that throw and choosing that that guy's open? I think you need to be smart about the shots you take,

and you take a look at Jalen Dighton, who's incredibly fast, is able to make those plays deep in the middle of the field. And so it's preparation that goes into it as well. And you see too high safety. You have enough time in the pocket. You kind of got to step up to the right. And you just trust that he's going to be down there. And he's done an incredible job the past two years.

And we've thrown so many passes like that in practice that you get out there in the game. You know exactly where he's going to be. And you know that you trust him and you're going to put the ball up and something special is going to go happen. You just said somebody throws like that in practice. You throw in 65-yard bombs while you're getting hit in practice? Well, not hit in practice. but after practice,

we're working on deep balls all the time. So whether it's go routes, post-rout, you know, he's always asking to catch more footballs after practice. I asked John Beck, whom you worked with, what his favorite throw of yours was. He picked the Tampa Bay throw from last year. What is your favorite throw? The Tampa Bay throw, the Giants throw,

or is there another throw that we're not talking about? The Tampa Bay one was fun because that was kind of the first real one that I've had. You know, it was the Tyron Johnson, who was a great teammate, a great friend of mine. Unfortunately not with the team anymore, but that one was definitely memorable for me. All right. And just getting back to the processing stuff,

when you're in the pocket and you're kind of processing, are you actually thinking things like, oh, the middle of the field's closed, it's cover three, if this linebacker does this, this guy's going to come open. Are you more like reacting to stimuli and just saying, oh, that guy's open, I'm going to throw it to him? I think for the most part it's kind of based on reaction.

I think at quarterback, if you think too much, you're kind of slowing yourself down. And so that's why practice is so helpful is being up and seeing a defense and just realizing, okay, you know, with Shell, I'm not going to work this side. Or, you know, I get single high safety, and you don't really have to think about it. You're just reacting. The quicker you can play, the faster, I think the better you can play a quarterback. Let me give you a situation.

It's like third and seven near midfield. You've got to have this play. What concept do you want them to call for you? We face a lot of man coverage on third down, and so I think you kind of find your matchups. And whether that's Kenan or Mike, you know, outbreaking routes, depending on what kind of man they play. But you got to trust your guys.

And Mike Williams is one of those guys on third down that you trust, and you know he's going to go make something happen, how physical and athletic he is. He's definitely a target on third down that you've got to look for. That was the humblest, let me make a throw coach answer. I've ever heard of Mike Turner right there. Yeah, you can trust your guys to get open man. Let me make a throw.

307. I got it. Don't worry about it. Mike will find a way to get open. And he'll bail me out too. If I put the ball high, I know he's going to go up again. Mike's one of those receivers who, when he doesn't look open, yeah, he's probably still open.

He's open. What's on the offseason schedule for you, non-football? What are we doing? Is it lots of golf? Is there going to be some travel after mini-camps? What's the schedule looking like? It's actually been a lot of golf. We have to started playing pickleball a little bit, too,

which is kind of a fun little kind of tennis-like game. Going to the beach and enjoying the California weather, and it's tough to beat. Can you sell me on pickleball? Because I know a lot of people who've gotten into it over the past couple of years, can you sell me on the appeal of it? Because I'm not really understanding what I'm looking at there.

Yeah, I think it's similar to tennis, but you don't have to run as much, and it's not as hard to get the ball over the net. It's kind of more like ping pong, which you can go play casually. I think it's a nice change of pace. How much of a tactical advantage is being 6 foot 6 and pickleball where you don't really have to run?

It feels like that might be a little bit of a G-code there. It definitely helped. And so we run up to the net and I do my best to control the net. Well, who's the partner? You said we run up to the net. Who's your partner? Usually it's Easton Stick. And so we've been playing, he's another quarterback on our team.

We play a bunch of guys on the team. So it's been fun. That's a big duo. That's a big duo. A lot of arm strength. Take me through the golf courses you're playing this year. Yeah, there are a bunch down here in Southern California. There's Oak Creek, Strawberry Farms.

Sometimes we get out to Pelkin, but they're a nice track that we just kind of go on later in the day after practice and kind of play until the phone goes down. Has your workout changed at all now that you're entering, obviously, a different phase in your career? Do you train differently in the off season? Is it more running, less running, more weights? I mean, the report is that you're jacked. Can you confirm? I don't know if I'd say that. I think I've kind of limited the overhead lift, just kind of to protect my arms.

I think we've done more cardio, so whether that's running on the bike. And I think a lot of it is important, too, is the core and kind of being a quarterback and everything kind of starts with that. So being able to twist and kind of throw the ball, I think it kind of all starts with the core. kind of those things. One thing you're like really good at is instantly reacting to pressure in the pocket. And I'm wondering how

how do you train at something like that? Is it just like natural instinct or is it something that you actually work on? I think it's definitely something you have to work on. And haven't played quarterback for quite a few years, you just kind of get a feeling of the pocket. And it definitely helps when you've got guys like Rashon Slate or

Corey Lindley, Matt Filer, who have been so solid and have given me so much time in the pocket. But at the same time, all about making these quick, short movements that are able to get you out of harms away, but still being able to throw the ball. And how much have you gotten a look at that

new look defense in OTA so far? What's the defense looking like? It's going to be fun to be able to compete against those guys. You know, Kalee, Matt, Tauvin, Noy, J.C. J. Jackson, all those new additions. They've picked up the defense so quickly. They're so smart, and they've been around the game for so long. They've had so much experience

that we're definitely going to be able to learn a lot from those guys. We're a big, Brandon Staley fans on this pod. What's the most fun thing about having Staley is your head coach? Coach Staley is an awesome coach because in team meeting rooms, they're always lighthearted, but at the same time, you want to go out and run through a brick wall for the guy. We've got so much respect for him. He's such a smart leader. He cares about everyone in our facility, and he's a great coach. What's unique about him? We see, we see just like, you know, eloquent guy, like loves defense. They get a little soft-spoken, you know what I mean?

it's not like as big of a raw, raw, sis'oomba coach as other guys. What's unique about him? I think having played quarterback, he understands both sides of the ball. A lot of it is, you know, we're talking defense, but he'll able to come into our room

at the quarterback room and kind of talk about, you know, what he sees offensively. And he's got such a great deal for the game that we're kind of able to talk about both sides of the ball. And that's where I kind of learn a lot about defense is by him. So it's been great to be able to kind of work under him. Last thing for you, Justin.

We discussed earlier whether or not, you'd even entertain the idea when we bring up the fact that you're one of the favorites for MVP, your third favorite. You were tied with Tom Brady. Stephen, do you want to finish this question? I was going to say he's not, he's the favorite now. What, depends where you look.

Josh Allen is in the mix there. But yeah, okay, how do you process that kind of hype, Justin? Especially after a year, last year, where obviously it didn't end the way you wanted to, but the improvements, obviously everyone's betting on you improving as a quarterback, the team improving.

How do you process what is probably going to be unimaginable hype by August and September? I think we do a good job at the charges of not worrying about too much about what people say. And whether it's said from a coach, a teammate, or someone in the building, then it's important. But you kind of have to filter out what's important, what's not. I think it is really cool.

You guys mentioned that. I never would have thought I'd be here. So, you know, you have to kind of appreciate the grind to get here, but still understand that we've got so much more room to grow. And this off season has been great for everyone. Being together, working together. You know, I'm really looking forward to this season. I think we can be a pretty

good football team and it's been all about how we react to it. So I'm really looking forward to it. Justin, this has been great. Thank you so much for coming in the NFL show. We'll see you this season. Awesome. Appreciate you guys. Guys, that was a delight. Justin Herbert, man. Sort of dude you want to root for

and also because you want to root for him because he's going to win football games. But he's also nice. Do you think he's past the audition and can hang with us as the fourth on our show? I would let him. When Nora's out, when Nora's out, you'd be like the replay. No, he could just take my spot. Like, I'll quit.

Oh, like a Ruizans. He could do Ruizans this year. Yeah, he'd be amazing. Stephen's ready to be the veteran quarterback that just holds the clipboard, coaches it up a little bit on Tuesday. Exactly. The young guys in the building, first round picks, Stevens sees the riding on the wall, and he's going to be a team player. Me and he will switch spots.

I'll quarterback the chargers. He can come do the pod. All right, a couple of bits of news to get to before we get out of this episode, just get some stuff on the record. First is Lamar Jackson is not going to show up for OTAs this week, apparently. In response, the Ravens signed quarterback Brett Hunley, obviously not a replacement for Lamar Jackson, but just a body. John Harbaugh has said that he's going to let Lamar speak for himself on that, and Lamar has not spoken. but we know what this is, which is a contract negotiation that is getting increasingly, I wouldn't say ugly, but I would say we're approaching the deadline. At some point, Lamar Jackson doesn't have a contract anymore. He's going to play this year, we think. He's going to maybe try to get the most leverage in history of football by getting at least close to free agency if that was possible. We know the limitations of franchise players in this league because the franchise tax. We know that teams can control you two or three years after your 50-year option.

It's a tough road to hoe, but Lamar Jackson is exercising his leverage. We think this will play out how, Steve? Maybe it's just that it's juxtaposed next to the Cardinals Kyler situation, which is far uglier. But I have no concerns. I have no concerns. And I know there is a deadline, but the Ravens do have the franchise tag option. And this isn't really like a DAC situation where the Cowboys really took a risk because they could have gotten deck for much cheaper and then he had a breakout year

and then they had to pay him like a top quarterback. Lamar's going to get that type of money anyway. He has an MVP on his resume. So I don't think there's really any risk here for the Ravens dragging their feet. And it sounds like Lamar wants to be in Baltimore. He's not making a fuss about anything really. He's not on Twitter complaining. So I'm not concerned.

I agree. And I also say that the relationship between Baltimore, the city and Lamar Jackson is very, very good. And it's a place where you'd want to be long-term, not just because obviously they have a great relationship, you know, quarterback and city. There's a bunch of those among franchise quarterbacks in the NFL, but because the Ravens are a damn good organization.

And they've done 85% of the time what's in the best interest of Lamar Jackson from a team-building standpoint. And you start to think and you say, listen, Lamar Jackson needs to make a ton of money. He's one of the best players in this league, quarterback or otherwise. but from a legacy standpoint, from a winning standpoint, if you go to a place with just a ton of cap space,

it's ready to sign a quarterback for, I don't know, let's say 60 million if he reached the open market. It might be closer to what you're talking about with the Arizona Cardinals than the Baltimore Ravens, where all of a sudden you're getting a GM who's not nearly as good, you're getting a coach who's not nearly as good,

the team building is different. And so I think the best thing would be the Baltimore Ravens paying Lamar Jackson an absolute ton of money because here's the thing. you're going to make a gobs of money anyway. So you might as well go to the GM who's going to figure out how to build a good team around you. Right.

As long as, you know, it's not some insane discrepancy between payment them. I think the most important thing to me in this context is the Ravens are going to be extremely good this year. I think the Ravens are going to win. I think the Ravens are going to be the first seed in the AFC. I don't know. The Ram's going 14 games.

I think Lamar was playing better last year than he played in his MVP season, which is like the literal title of the piece I, wrote midseason before he got hurt. I think that every piece of news I get from Mike about Mike McDonald, the new D.C., who was previously on the Ravenstaff, went to Michigan, was their D.C. for a year and now is back. That news encourages me. I think Marlon Humphrey had the worst season of his career that I can remember, Alabama or Baltimore, and I expect that to bounce back.

I think the Ravens are going to be extremely freaking good. And that is a salve that will heal whatever currently exists. between Lamar and the front office and the contract situation, right? Once they win 13, 14 games, nobody's really going to care. It's going to be like, all right, we're obviously going to pay this guy. I personally think he's out of OTAs because Lamar's the worst immune system of all time.

He just wants to minimize his amount of time around other people. And personally, I respect it. That's the long-term view. There's a new variant. Stay away, Lamar. Yes, stay away. What's the variant, 1.2.1? I saw it the other day.

It's like B.A. It's named after Bruce. out of easy names for variance, man. They're going to get longer and worse. All right. So anything else in this? I mean, I think it gets results. Yeah.

And again, like, you can't, the only way to reach true for agency as a quarterback is be like Kirk Cousins and be with an organization who just had no idea what it was doing for most of your rookie contract. And then forcing a way out that way, using the franchise tag as your friend, which Lamar in theory could do, but also he could just sign an extension for more than the franchise tag, even if it's short. I think the future is Dak, for most quarterbacks, is

Dak Prescott style, short contracts, bet on yourself, get $250 million every few years, right? That's it. That's how you get to Peter King with a piece a couple weeks ago about how there's going to be a hundred million dollar quarterback per year at some point, probably closer to now than we think.

And the way you do that is you have guys like Lamar Jackson, Dak Prescott, Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, signing three-year deals and renegotiating every two years. That's how you get to the nine-figure quarterback. All right, next news item, Colin Kaepernick gets his first workout since he left the league on January 1st. 2017, it's with Las Vegas Raiders.

The quote from Josh McDaniels on Thursday, if there's an opportunity to improve the team, we set it from day one that we would look at every opportunity. He's not the first player we looked at, not the last one. There's going to be a lot of people that come in and out of this building and have an opportunity to make an impression. If we make a decision to add somebody to the team, then we'll do it. This is very, very, very Belichick.

That's why I started to laugh is because Josh McDaniels does not want to talk about the fact that Colin Kaepernick worked out for him. There's a lot to get to here. Mark Davis has consistently said that if the GM and the coach wanted to sign Colin Kaepernick, you would embrace them with open arms. The problem with that particular stance has been before Josh McDaniels, the head coach was John Gruden, who was not going to. going to do it. And for that, the head coach was Jack Doe Ryo, who was very much not going to do it.

If you ever looked at old Jack's tweets or Twitter likes. This is significant, Stephen. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if anything's going to come from it, but this was a player that couldn't even get a workout. Like you said, this is his first workout. Like the Seahawks talked about bringing them in and then that fell apart. And at the time, the Seahawks weren't going to do it, that's when, at least when I realized, oh, he's never going to get another shot. And the fact that he's getting a shot, even if it is, what is it, six years later now, five years later now, it's not like a sign of significant progress, but it's a sign of some progress for the league.

Like, the league has opened up its arms to Colin Kaepernick a little bit at least. And I mean, I guess that's refreshing. It's just sad that it took this long. And we're at a point now where even if Kaepernick gets back into the league, he lost five years of his career. And five years that were supposed to be the prime of his career. So even if we get a happy ending, the middle of the story is still completely sad. I well said, Ben.

Yeah, right. That's the thing is at this point, we're asking if a team is going to sign a 34-year-old backup quarterback. And the answer to that question in almost every context is no. Right? And then you add the additional context, which you mean,

Stephen, everybody here, we don't think that Kaepernick's history of peaceful protest should affect the fact that he's signed, but NFL teams clearly do. And it makes it even harder, a more narrow road to walk for Cap to be signed. The thing that's that, like the Raiders worked him out, and it was sick. It was cool that a team gave Kaepernick a workout because he should have gotten a workout. We've all known that for a long time. It was vindicating it felt good. The part that sucked was today when pro football talk writes a story and it's actually two teams before the Raiders worked him out, had interest in Kaepernick. It's like, all right, we're immediately doing this again,

where we're like six to 19 unnamed teams all have interest in our monitoring Colin Kaepernick. And it's like, this doesn't do anything. It's nice to say this. That also makes us feel good, but it doesn't really because it's not actionable. It doesn't exist. It's just words for the sake of making ourselves feel better. And so I'm encouraged that the Raiders gave him a workout. I'll really feel like something is happening when the second team gives them a workout.

That's when I'll feel like, you know, we're treating this with, with seriousness. Yeah, and it's really... I'll feel encouraged when he signs. Yeah. The second workout's not doing much for me. And it's really... Sign is the wind.

Yeah. It's really easy to be cynical about this because of what the Raiders have been through through the last year. And this is an easy way to get good PR. Yesterday, they lost in court to John Bruden, and now that that whole thing is going to go to Discovery and the email, more email is going to come out.

And there's just a lot with the Raiders for them. Right. And we spent a lot of... a time back in 2017, 2018, 2019 discussing why Colin Kaepernick wasn't in the league. And for me, this feels like definitive proof that the reason he wasn't

in, not that we needed it. This is definitive proof that the reason he wasn't in the league, it was because of politics. Because if you're working about five years later, when he hasn't played football for five years, why weren't you working him out five years ago when he was five years younger and probably a better athlete, probably a better football

player? There's a lot of daylight between Colin Kaepernick should have started during the 2017 season and Colin Kaepernick shouldn't be in the league. And I don't think there's any argument, any argument at all. From a football standpoint

that he should have been out of football at all for one day. He's been out of the league for 1,971 days. He's deserved a job, a job, not a starting job, not the mega contract, whatever. He's deserved a job

on every single one of those days. And the way that I viewed it was I don't think there was a top-down collusion to keep him out of the league. I don't think there was some NFL executive who said, we're going to keep them out. I think that what actually happened was far more depressing, which is that there were 32 owners, 32 GM, 32 coaches who looked at it and said, I'm not going to do this. They all had some element of cowardice about it. And I think that, I think in general, every single story, and this happened all the time, is you hear these GMs say, well, you know, the reason Colin Kaepernick's not getting to work is, you know, because all sorts of fake answers, the read options going out of style, or, you know, we're worried about what's going on when he's in the facility.

Is he going to work, you know, as much as he did now that he's got, you know, outside interest, all of this stuff, right? And there was never a compelling answer, not to bring him in for a workout and see and meet with him, which only a handful, I think only two teams ever talked to him on the phone. So I don't, I don't even think this is, this is necessarily all about political. Like I honestly don't know how you could say Colin Kaepernick did not deserve consistent employment after his San Francisco tenure, save for injury problems or a complete drop in, you know, sub-Peterman levels of production, which he never had. And I think that we get bogged down. We get bogged down so much.

This Peterman is still in the NFL, by the one. Yeah. We get so bogged down, and it's just become some weird Twitter thing where it's like, we lost his job with Blaine Gabbard. First of all, total, like, that's a bit,

that is a misnomer. Not a bit of a misnomer. It is a misnomer. But then beyond that, it's not about beating out Blaine Gabbert for the 2016 Niners job. It's about beating out the second or third guy

on a roster. And that's why he's always deserved a job from a purely football standpoint. And I'd like to see him on a roster. Same. Even if he isn't the same player and even if, I mean, I think if he comes back into the league and he plays poorly, that could give some fuel to the people that were so loud about him back in the day or five years ago. But just seeing him on an NFL sideline would be cool and it would be worth it. even if he, for me it would be, and this, his, his stance is obviously much more important than this. But like last year, I saw Cam Newton play with the Panthers again and he was bad.

But like just seeing him with the Panthers was enjoyable for me. Seeing Colin Kaepernick play in the NFL again would be fun for everyone, I think. It also rights or wrong. I guess I'd ask you, if you're listening to this and you think he does not deserve a job, I'd like to know why. And I'm completely serious. tweet at me, send me a DM, whatever it is. Tell me why Colin Kaepernick does not deserve a job in the NFL.

Maybe you think his politics, this gets into distraction culture, right? Which is NFL coaches and GMs and owners love to pull the distraction card, which means roughly, this is NFL speak. The distraction is anything at all the coach doesn't like and he doesn't want to deal with. Yep. That's what it is. That's what a distraction is. When you hear this could be a distraction, it means something the coach is confused

and scared by, doesn't want to deal with. We pay these guys $7 million a year, and there's a whole host of things. They don't even want to entertain. Okay? So that's my question to you. If you don't think Colin Kaepernick deserved a job, why?

Is it because you don't like his politics? I don't, I just, this is a purely football thing. If we start going around, putting political questionnaires in front of every locker, it's going to be a whole lot of things that a lot of people don't like. Okay. So that's my question. why was Colin Kaepernick

if you think the last five years have been justified, why? Would legitimately love to hear this answer? Because I have never heard a compelling ever. Anyone else, guys? Are you going to transition to the two of a Stephen joke at this time?

I mean, it's that or like we had the episode, but no, we're not, we had a damn full segment with Nora yesterday and we said we needed Stephen on. because Tyree Kill said that Tua throws the best ball as he's ever seen and we were...

He's a liar. He's a liar. He's lying. You are a liar, Tyree Kill. Can we get him on the pod? Because I want to ask, I want him to tell me, look me in the face and tell me that he throws a better ball than Patrick Mahomes. We watch football. We know how football works. We've seen it. We know the mechanisms.

We know what quarterbacks are good and which ones are not. Tua does not throw a ball. a better ball than Patrick of Holmes. I'm sorry. Unless maybe he was doing these OTAs right-handed for a change. Maybe that's what happened. And he did throw it. There it is. I needed to get to it.

Let's check back in with Tyreek in October. That's my take on the matter. Should we pre-book him? Yeah. Actually, week two. Give it, give us week two, actually. Stephen has got a pitch for a Miami credential like week six. Just sight unseen. Doesn't even need to know

the game of the week. Just you can go to the point in Tyreek is two of the most accurate quarterback you've ever played with? So the two quarterbacks he played with in the 2014 Oklahoma State team, which was the best college team he played on, obviously, this is one year as a cowboy, Dax Garman and then Mason Rudolph. Okay? So Dax Garman, Mason Rudolph,

his other quarterback at the other school, Patrick Mahomes and Tua, are the quarterbacks he played with a high-level football. Where do you think Tua is Tua number two for you, Stephen? He's better than Mason Rudolph. Yes, he is. No, he's number three. At worst, the second best quarterback. He caught that fourth down conversion from Chad Hennie against the Browns.

That's what I was going to say. Patrick Mahomes, Chad Hennie, Alex Smith. Wait, you're putting Hennie above Alex Smith? That was a dime on fourth down, baby. And Chad Hennie was a great thrower of the football. It was the more mental aspects of the-chat. Heaney throws one sprint-right option, and you're putting him in the Chiefs Prenton above Alex-Mitt. nice a game.

That was really amazing. Cool. He's also... Chad Henney. He's also played in the pro ball, mind you. So that's like

another six quarterbacks ahead of Tua. Tua might not even be top ten now that I think about it. Okay.

Two is better than many quarterbacks. I do think that Tyree Kill is lying. I also think that as I said yesterday, he also said that Patrick Wilms

was trash in his first practice. Okay? Or when they thought Patrick Holmes was trash when they first practice together.

So I'm shelving in its entirety, Tyree Kill the Evaluator. Yeah, do you want me to say the line? Tyree Kill doesn't know ball. I'm just not hiring the NFL show. I'm just not hiring as their pro personnel guy. That's all.

This has been the ringer NFL show, part of the podcast networks, and find this and produce this with additional productions provision by Arjuna, Ramcapul. We'll be back next week. I hate to do this.

I'm going to sound like that guy. But we have another of the best players in football next week recording next Friday. Both of you guys are on that show by the way. Yeah, that changed. So we'll be back on Wednesday

and we'll have a regular episode and then we'll have, what are we going to call it? Elite NFL player corner? Yeah. Best at his position and also the best NFL podcasters. All best at our relative positions corner. The thing is

is that these guys are coming in and they're better podcasters than us too. We had Alex Smith a couple weeks ago. We had Greg Olson this week. We had Justin Herbert today who blew us out of the water. And now we got this guy next Friday. He's just going to come in and just start, you know, he's going to start telling jokes.

He's going to be like the third best podcast with him. He's going to be like life advice. That's going to be an awkward conversation with Tua next week. Tyree Kale. We're just going to get it for 20 minutes. Toa's catchable balls. All right. See you guys then.

Bye-bye.