The Ringer NFL Show - Justin Herbert’s Injury, Animated Training Camp Interactions, and NFL Reality Corner

Episode Date: August 2, 2024

Sheil and Nora start their conversation with the news of Justin Herbert’s foot injury and how this latest misfortune is just another chapter in the Chargers' woeful lore. They then shine a light on all the latest training camp frustrations and skirmishes around the league before diving into some QB updates in Denver and Pittsburgh (8:50). Finally, they break down the new pre-snap motion rules taking effect and share their takes on the ‘Hard Knocks: Offseason With the New York Giants’ and ‘America’s Sweethearts: Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders’ reality series (45:32). Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Nora Princiotti Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Kiera Givens and Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sure, the weather is getting warmer and you're probably planning your next vacation with your family, but what better way to avoid your family on that vacation than listening to three dudes argue about quarterback tears if you can trust a wide receiver over 30 years old, and if Jim Harbaugh still thinks chickens are nervous birds. Join me, Craig Horlebeck, along with Danny Hyfitz and Danny Kelly every week on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. Shield Capadia here with my friend Nora Princiotti. We've got training camps in full swing. We've got preseason starting up, and we've got a handful of topics, I think a handful of topics that caught our attention from around the NFL that we are going to discuss today.

Nora Prenciotti, are you in full training camp mode? How are we doing? I'm so good. It's a good handful. We've got a really good handful of topic. And I am feeling in training camp mode. You know, it's August 1st. It's August season for the Swifties out there. And that means camp. So I'm ready to go. There you go. It's, you know, if you're an old school beat reporter, like that means you got the empty water bottles all over the car. That means you got, you know, do you have sunblock? Did you forget to eat today? You know, well, do I need to do laundry?

All that's, it's fun. It brings back fun memories of like first years in the business. You know, you brought up the water bottle. And that's a real thing that for me, my water bottle game has changed since I was like a regular beat reporter. and it comes through to me in the moments now where I'll go to a camp, and I realize that the water bottles that I have, I have kind of like my gym water bottles. And maybe I should just,

maybe I'm realizing in real time here that I should switch back to just using my gym water bottles, which are a little bit more lightweight. But the thing is, I've got the giant, like, you know, the metal Stanley Cup that lives on my bedside table because I drink so much water. So I need just like a vat. near me in order to be able to sleep. And I'm toting it around. I'm going out to Jets camp.

I'm doing the stuff. And it's like 10 pounds. This is not a portable item. And so I feel like I need to go back to the more lightweight training camp bottles that I definitely would have would have had in regular rotation in my full on beat reporting days. Yeah, listen, this is not, it sounds glamorous. This is not easy life.

You got the reporter's notebook. You got the pen. the digital voice recorder and then the water. I mean, you only have two hands. So you're out there, you know, you got to figure it out. This is a very, you know, hard life being an NFL reporter, as we will tell. I look forward to the updates with the water bottle. If I see you at a camp or something. Yeah, you're just, the wheels are turning. That was just a real time. Like, oh, man, got to get kind of work on this. All right. Let's get to it. We got some stuff around the NFL. We came up with a list of topics. And then right before we started recording, we got some news. So let's start.

with that, Nora, because injuries are the worst part of August. You mentioned the fun parts of August. The worst parts are the cringe you feel. Oh, no, why is there an alert about this quarterback, this defensive back, whatever? Hopefully, it's nothing serious. And this one on the range of, you know, devastating training camp injuries, it's not at the extreme. So that's good news. But Justin Herbert diagnosed with an injury to the planter fascia in his right foot per team. Doctors recommend two weeks in a boot and then a graduated, which I don't know that I've heard that before, a graduated return to play. Expectation is he'll be ready for the opener.

That's from Daniel Popper of The Athletic. Now, I just made the case on the last, you know, episode, Ringer NFL that, hey, Chargers could be a sleeper, playoff team, easy schedule, Herbert, maybe a good offensive line, Harbaugh, you know, can they get to nine or ten wins? now this throws a little curveball at me. So how do you feel about this in terms of what it means for the Chargers as they have more turnover than almost any team in the NFL just in the team that finished last year and the team that's going to start this year? I've been with you on the sort of muted Chargers hype, right? Like I don't think they're going to be a Super Bowl contender. I wouldn't even be surprised if they missed the playoffs.

But I just, I believe in the Harbaugh bounce in year one. So I think people are going to be surprised to see them. overcome what are fairly low expectations. This does, this does make me nervous from that perspective. And it's not because it's a particularly serious sounding injury, but what worries me is just that this has the vibe of something that could linger. Herbert didn't get hurt during practice. He ran in yesterday's training camp practice.

He did not miss a rep with the first team offense. And so the Chargers say that after practice, that's when he was diagnosed with this, which says to me, this isn't a thing where, you know, they run one play. He feels something tweak or twinge. And then he goes to the doctor and they say, oh, yeah, this is wrong. And it's a thing where he's just feeling some pain. He's feeling some soreness, maybe whatever it is. And they realize that it would be better for him to just take some time and let it try to heal up. Two weeks of training camp. He's a veteran guy at this point. Like, Justin Herbert can deal with that. That's okay. I don't even worry about that too much within the context of they've got a new offensive system and he's got stuff to learn. Like, I trust that he can do that.

I just, and maybe it's because it's the chargers and it has that hint of chargersiness. It has that vibe of like, oh, I really, you know, they say that he'll be, he's likely to be ready for week one. But I really hope we're not talking about this is something that maybe isn't keeping them out of the lineup, but is, say, limiting Justin Herbert's mobility in week four. And to the degree that I think this matters, I think that's the concern. Yeah, I think you put it well. There's always the two layers of it. One is, when is the person going to be back on the field, practicing and playing? But then two is, what does the person look like? What they're back on the field practicing and playing? I mean, we just saw this with Joe Burrow last year where he comes back,

and you're like, that doesn't look like Joe Burrow. This is obviously a limited player. And so if you're a Chargers fan, you're hoping that that's not going to be the case. Obviously, there's no way to know that until Herbert goes through it, comes back, and we see what he looks like. But not the ideal. You mentioned it.

And there's that, it's like, oh, it's the Chargers. Like, all right, if it were another team. It's the foot injury of it all, too. I just, I hate hearing about a foot injury. Yes. There's a stubbornness to it that it feels like, oh, you know, yeah, you could see a, week six podcast. Well, all right, this was kind of like a red shirt year for them. They're going to be

bad again. Maybe someone will have the take. Well, they'll be picking high in the draft and get that wide receiver. And here come the 2025 Chargers. If you're a Chargers fan, it's early August. You've been waiting for football. You have a new regime. You do not want to hear those takes yet. So there you go. Fingers crossed that Justin Herbert comes back healthy and this is a minor setback, but that we still get a close to 100% version of him for the 2024 season. Can I say one more thing? I feel. bad for the Chargers on. I cannot read the phrase Chargers team doctor without just like these types of things, these training camp stories, all we're doing every day is just trying to appropriately

calibrate to the seriousness of what we're reading and seeing because there's so much hype and there's so much overreaction. And when I read Chargers team doctors, I go, oh, Dr. Stabby McStaberson? And I'm sure it's not the same guy. There's almost no chance. It has nothing to do with it, but it just makes me so nervous. Especially with Herbert. How did his, yeah, how did his tenure start was.

Brought you into this world and I can take you out of it. What was it? Dr. Stabby McSaberson. Yeah, I like that. Poor Tyra-Taylor. Yes, you're right. You don't want to read anything that begins with Chargers team according to Chargers team doctor or Chargers team doctor says it's on, I'm sure they're really great medical.

professional is completely unfair of me. Turn over, nothing to do with it. It just, this is me being honest about how my brain reacts to those particular words. This is about content consumption. This is not about the reputation of medical professionals. Let's let that be known on the Ringer NFL show. It's how we feel. It's not how you're doing your job. We're sure you are wonderful at your jobs. There we go. I think we're covered. All right. Next topic here, we go to your old stomping grounds. Foxborough. training camp. What the heck is going on with the New England Patriots? Maybe it's not that bad. Maybe it is that bad. I don't know. Here's what's happening right now with the New England Patriots and why we wanted to talk

about them for this episode. They have had a tumultuous camp so far earlier this week. They had their first padded practice and Matthew Judon, the edge rusher just comes out and he says, I'm just going to watch practice today. I don't want to participate. He wants a new contract. They have not been able to agree to terms as of this recording. He has a quote on, I love the descriptive words that we have to use. This is a Brian Curtis thing, the wonderful press box pod. But animated, Nora, discussion. Because the truth is, none of us know what they actually said.

Animated, heated, heated, intense. Enthusiastic. Yes. Yeah, they're colorful. I don't know. There's a bunch we could go to, but animated discussion with Gerard Mayo, and then he walks off the field. Then he comes back on the field, has a chat with de facto, another good journalism word, GM Elliott-Wolf.

And then he leaves again. Now, the good news is you return to practice on Thursday after having talked it out with Gerard Mea. So he missed two days of practice, didn't show up on Tuesday, but he showed up on Thursday. So that's one thing. You have Christian Barmore, one of their best defensive players out indefinitely with a blood clot issue. hopefully he's going to be okay and wish him a great recovery and treatment for what is ailing him. But again, that's one of their best defensive players. There's Drake May stuff, whether it's overreaction, underreaction, normal reaction.

I'm curious to hear what you think. But basically by all accounts of anybody who covers the team, he is not close to challenging Jacoby Berset quite yet. So my question to you, as someone who knows this team well, is what do you make of all this? What do you make of the first camp? the first couple weeks of the first camp in the post Bill Belichick era. The big thing to me is what I think has happened is, you know, I think of my mom, who's a teacher, she teaches 10th grade English in the New York City Soul System. And the beginning of the school year, right, it's this like, you go in, you got a new class,

and they're going to test you a little bit. They're going to see if, you know, are you capable of laying down the law? Do you even want to? how far can we go? And I feel like that's what's happening to Gerard Mayo a little bit. He has a different vibe than Bill Belichick. It's much more open. It's much more lenient in terms of players being able to speak their minds to the media.

And they get into camp. And within the first couple of days, you've got two reasonably high, profile much more in Matthew Judon's case, but two pieces of their defense in Matthew Judon and Devon Godshaw just speaking openly about wanting to make more money and saying I'm underpaid. And Judon at first comes in and he says, you know, my contract is my contract. And maybe he was kind of trying to play good cop and think that they would say, oh, he's being so responsible about this. Let's give him a little bump. That doesn't happen. And then he turns the page. and goes the sort of hold-in strategy.

And I got to tell you, I like you, and team CTC for these players. They play a violent game. They don't have long careers. If you think you can get some money, Matthew Judon,

like, go for it. That scene where he's sitting on a trash can. Looks very uncomfortable. Right off of the practice field. And Mayo comes over and I think it said, you know, what I imagine that conversation. And I will say, in defense of the beatwriters, it was animated. Yeah, no, they weren't wrong.

Report what you see. I think what he said to, what I imagine he said to him was basically like, look, you're entitled to speak your mind and feel the way you feel, but we can't have someone here who's not practicing. And that was, I mean, a Belichick rule was, if you're there, you're practicing. And if someone's holding out, then he would, you know, say all the boilerplate stuff

and basically not address it and say, you know, we'll deal with it when we deal with it or whatever. But no one, I mean, under Bill Belichick, and this is neither here nor there, but under Bill Belichick, Matthew Judon's not sitting on that trash can. I think there's just almost no way. So I don't necessarily think it's that big of a deal.

And if the Patriots capitulate, you know, they ended up giving Godshaw an extension who also that first week had brought up his frustration of the lack of guaranteed money and his deal and just feeling like run stoppers in general aren't paid as much as they should be. And they gave him a bump two years, 21 million over the two, which seems, I don't know, is it a little generous maybe? But it's fine. And if they give judan a little bump to get him back in the fold, he's started practicing again, I think that's fine. I think the issue starts to be if they do something long term, because then you're talking about giving a lot of money to a 32-year-old pass rusher, coming off an elbow injury.

He's a good player, but he's maybe not in the same conversation with some of the guys that he's saying, I want to be paid like a top-top pass rusher. I think they can solve all these problems. I just think that the choices that Mayo's making right now and in dealing with this, it's a little bit of like, they're testing you, bro. Like, they're seeing how far this leniency goes. And, you know, I guess I think it goes down as he's navigating that pretty well by getting Judon back on the back on the field.

But that's been a little up and down. Yeah, I was going to say, and that and I am. not somebody if you've listened to this show the last two years who likes Patriots spin or, you know, if I feel they should be ripped, I will rip them right away. You could easily point to this and say Gerard Mayo, first time head coach. These are the types of things a normal head coach has to deal with, maybe not Bill Belichick, but a lot of coaches have to deal with stuff like this. And it sounds like he found a way to get through to Judon and Judon showed up again and was practicing.

Like that some coaches are jerks or arrogant or don't want to deal with it. And he is a former player and he's been around the building and he has a relationship with the guy. So you could easily spin this as like, this is a good outcome. These are the things you want to actually see from a first year head coach. So it's a good sign that he's back. The other thing I thought of, Nora, was just the setup here and the setup in different NFL organizations with like the separation from the coach with the front office. You know, like I remember Andy Reid back in the day with the Eagles. And it's probably, it's a little bit like this too.

probably in Kansas City. It was a good cop, bad cop thing. The players thought, even though Andy Reid, like, if you're a reasonable person, you know that Andy Reid's making the final decision on everything. But he was able to formulate this setup where if it was, hey, you're not getting the money, the contract you want. That's because of, you know, the guys upstairs. That's because of whatever, the GM, like, he could spin that.

And I was like, you know, players would leave Philadelphia all the time. and they would rip people and they would never rip Andy. Oh, Andy had nothing to do with that. It's like Andy's making the final decisions. And so different organizations, you know if you're Matthew Judon, who's making the call here. When Bill Belichick's there, there's no question. If you're upset with what's going on, you know who's making the call. It's Bill Belichick.

But I thought that's what was interesting about this. Who knows? Like, if you're Matthew Judon, do you know who's making the call? Is it Gerard Mayo? Is it Elliot Wolf? Is it Jonathan Kraft? is it Robert Kraft? And so you don't know.

And so you voice your displeasure. You're not sure who to direct it at. Who are you having conversations with? And I thought that was another interesting aspect of this. It's like who's doing damage control here? Who's massaging that relationship? Who's making the final call on what decision eventually gets made to either keep him in the building under the current terms to give him a bump to trade him?

I suggested on a previous episode, this might be a trade candidate. If you're the Patriots and you know you're not winning a lot of games this year and he's over 30 and he's in the final year of his deal, what can you get for? And would a team like the Ravens be like, yeah, we'll give you a mid-round pick for Matthew Judon? That could be a win-win, and maybe that's something that we still see happen. But man, you can't overstate just how big of an organizational transition this is. Like one of the biggest probably in our times, you know, covering the league, being alive, whatever, to go from Bill Belichick to whatever's next, it's going to be totally different. And so I guess we shouldn't be too surprised that the first,

you know, two weeks of training camp kind of go in that direction. That's why I definitely don't mind seeing Mayo be animated in that conversation and look like he was laying down the law a little bit because I'm all for bad cop, good cop. I think that's a really interesting point. And I think would probably be a pretty smart way for him to play some of these situations. But I do to the point where I do feel like they're testing him a little bit, he is the one who's getting compared to Bill Belichick. And therefore, his leniency is the thing that's being.

rubbed up against a little bit. So I wonder if this is an example of us seeing Mayo maybe changes tune just a little bit and if that would be a helpful thing and an effective thing.

Yeah, navigate it and figure out what his role should be in matters like this. All right, Drake May, before we move on to the next topic, I don't know,

like to me, it's pretty simple. Like, I don't know, rookie quarterbacks generally struggle in training camp. It's okay. Are you?

you like surprise or maybe that's how most people view it, but it's just, you know, some people are overreacting. Where are you with kind of the Drake May and maybe the first couple weeks? He's not lighting it up on the practice field. To me, it doesn't, it seems fine. I think maybe you calibrate a little bit of, okay, you know, if I was inching toward predicting that maybe October, we might see him get into the lineup, maybe at a certain point you take the results from training camp and say, no, I think this is looking at, if it's not a redshirt year, this is a December kind of thing if we end up seeing him get in there. But the reason I don't think too much of it is just because he's struggling, at least

according to all the beat guys who are there every day, seems to be in the ways that you would expect him to struggle. Like the footwork is an issue. We knew the footwork was an issue. The footwork was an issue when they drafted him. We knew that was going to be a thing that he was going to have to focus on. It was something that he struggled with a little bit when they were. repped it a lot in OTAs, in minicamp.

And this has just been kind of a bugaboo for Drake May and something that is going to impact his NFL readiness. But that shouldn't change. You know, that's, that's who he was when he was drafted. It's who he was this spring. And he's still working through it a little bit now. So to me, that's just an example of a player who got there pretty raw with things to work on.

He's playing in an offense that that is trying to. who dig itself out of being one of the least effectual NFL offenses against a defense that's pretty good that's up there in the NFL ranks. And defenses, obviously, often have a little bit of a hand early on because the offense is trying to get up to speed, get all the timing right, and the defense can just react. So to me, all of that is really normal. If it keeps going, you know, if by the time we're getting towards September

and the word out of New England is just Drake may have, a tough camp, I still will probably feel like that's nothing that a rookie quarterback who came in pretty raw can't come back from. But I do think at that point it starts to factor in, you know, when should we expect to see him? But overall, not too concerned about it. I'm with you. I mean, if you're a Patriots fan, it'd be great if you were reading reports of, man, Drake Mays just lighting it up and he's light years ahead of where they thought he was going to be. And this is, but like, that almost never happens. I mean, you can go look at great quarterbacks and what their first training camp looked like.

And this is kind of what it looks like. So yeah, give it more time and we'll see what it looks like. All right, let's take a break. We come back. We talk about another AFC East team. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. Speaking, I don't know, this transition, like, that seems to mean to be like speaking of a shaky offensive performance.

I don't think, you know, I think the expectations are different for the two. But the New York Jets are off to a bit of a shaky start offensively. this is from Zach Rosenblatt of the athletic. Aaron Rogers continues to express frustration in practice, made it clear how annoyed he was throughout practice. Oh, my, I have another animated, Nora. This is who I didn't even know. I didn't even plan this.

I could feel it coming. I knew it was coming. Rogers had an animated discussion with Garrett Wilson on the sideline during multiple practices. Both of them downplayed it afterwards. They were said, you know, there's some miscommunications. It's about passion. good, no big deal.

Their center, Joe Tipman is having some snapping issues. It sounds like Rogers is getting after him a little bit, but also said the guy has a chance to be an all pro. It's okay. I can get after him a little bit. No big deal. There's been some drops. There's been some turnovers.

There's been some sacks. There's been some incompletions. How do you read it? Is this regular training camp stuff? Everybody calm down. Aaron Rogers has played a lot of games in the NFL or is there more to it? You know, I think this one's fine. Again, this is an example of a team where there's more to the Jets offense than there is to the Patriots offense,

but it's an example of a team where the offense is going into training camp against a really good defense. So let's not discount that, first of all. Second of all, the way that I come at the Jets is basically, I think this roster is really good. And I think basically they have one challenge, which is can you get from here to September without us? I don't really care how many headlines we read about, you know, Aaron Rogers thinks Garrett Wilson freelances a little bit on his routes. He's frustrated. They're working on the snaps, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

As long as it is not Tyron Smith out with injury. Mike Williams timeline still don't know, could get into midway through the regular season, Elijah Vera Tucker setback. This is a really good team that has some like all time level injury concerns. And I honestly, my perspective on the Jets is just like, if this team is healthy, it's a win. If they are healthy going into September, training camp for the New York Jets was ultimately a success. Yeah, that's well, give yourselves a chance. If you're a Jets fan,

you're like, just give us a chance. If it doesn't work out, it's okay if it doesn't work out, but give us a chance. Rogers is fussy. He's fussy with receivers. He's always been fussy. By the way, Garrett Wilson should be the most frustrated player in the NFL. That man should be allowed to yell at whoever he wants to yell at whenever he wants to yell at him. The guy has had back-to-back a thousand-yard seasons on a garbonzo beans offense to you with a garbonzo beans quarterback in Zach Wilson. If he wants to yell at someone, I don't care who it is. You should be lining up to get yelled at by him because I keep waiting for the guy to get some good quarterback play so that he can be a monster. And it sounds like they

connected a few times in the red zone, so maybe things are, you know, moving in the right direction. Yeah, I was seeing tweets at one point that we're saying, you know, balls not hitting the ground, Rogers threw six touchdowns in a red zone section. Like, I don't think it's been all bad there. I will say, Rogers, when he went to the podium, he had a press conference after, I think, the second time that they'd gotten into it a little bit on the sideline. And he, you know, he left it off. He said, every, you know, of course, media is making too big of a deal out of this and

it's not a big deal. And Rogers explained it away in part by saying that if you look at the exchange by the end of it. We're both smiling. We're both happy. I watched that a few times. I watched that video a few times. And he's right that by the end of it, he is smiling. By the end of it, Garrett Wilson still looks pissed. I think he said that actually. In the one I read, I can't remember for it was Rich Sinini at ESPN or the athletic. But yeah, it was like, we're both smiling. Well, at least one of us was. Okay. Well, good. You know what? Good for him for saying that then, because I think I must have read a tweet that didn't have that part or something. Because that's,

That's very much true. Garrett Wilson still looks a little. T-O'd. Yeah. And the Jets had the worst offense in the NFL last season. You know, they have Aaron Rogers now entering his age 41 season coming off an injury. But here, I'm going to give you a good, a good, if you're a Jets fan, and stop clowning us.

We're tired of people clowning us for the last 20 years. Give us something good. Here's a little nugget on Aaron Rogers. 13 seasons where he's played at least 10 games. he's never quarterbacked an offense that's finished worse than 12th in offensive DVOA. So if you get, listen, if you get 16th, 20th best offense, guess what? With this defense, you actually have a chance. And I know if you're, you want a playoff game.

I know, we've had arguments about this before, Solac disagreed before, but you just want something to feel good about. If you get 9 and 8, 10 in season, 10 and 7, entertaining playoff game, I mean, that's just going to be so much better than what you've, had to watch in recent year. So there you go. Neither of us are panicking on the Jets. We're on the same page. I think those guys will get it together. I think they have a chance to be a great combination this season. So hopefully they're just ironing some stuff out now. All right. Well, I don't even think we plan to do this, Nora, but we're going from the Jets to now the guy I

just ripped. Wow. The former Jets quarterback. Yeah. Zach Wilson. It looks like Zach Wilson is out of the Broncos quarterback competition. Now listen, Sean Payton didn't come out and say this. The reporting is actually, I was laughing reading the reporting. It's like they skipped Zach Wilson's turn in the rotation on Tuesday. This is from Jeff Legwald, the VSPN. Jarrett Stidham and Bo Nix had rotated with the start, we're rotating with the starters.

Previously, they were all three rotating with the starters. That just stopped. And Sean Payton was like, stop trying to make a big thing out of it. And then someone asked him, well, is Wilson going to get more reps with the first team and he said, we'll see. So it's like, come on, John Payton. We're not dumby. So again, they had been dividing work previously.

But now, at least for now, it could change. It looks like Jarrett Stidham versus Boe Nix. Nora, what do you think about this just burning hot quarterback competition that is the talk of the NFL leading every morning ESPN show? It should have led our podcast. That's a bad job of content by me. because everyone can't keep their eyes off of what's happening with these quarterbacks. Look, so first of all, it's a tough break for Zach Wilson.

I do think it can't get worse than what he went through in training camp last year, which is just like he had to have the HBO crews around him every day when he just, he just played like his role in Hardnox was to essentially be like a school child that Aaron Rogers could just like talk down to in every moment. So I guess it's better than that. Does clearly seem to be a two-quarterback race here between Stidham and Nix. Albert Breer and his column reported that his expectation is that they'll make a decision after one or two preseason games. So I guess we'll get a clearer sense fairly soon.

It seemed like Stidham went into training camp, you know, going first in the order kind of as the incumbent. But I guess the more that I read about this and look at it, it just seems like it comes down to the fact that Nix is Peyton's guy. He picked him 12th for a reason. He's gone out on a limb for this guy. And as long as the reports aren't that Stidham is totally out playing him, which they definitely aren't, I kind of feel like the writing's on the wall here for, you know,

they play the Seahawks in week one. By the time we get to September 8th, I just have a feeling that, you know, if I had to guess, it feels like it's Bo Nix's job. I would say the same thing for the reason you said. I mean, Sean Payton's reputation is on the line. The guy, you know, picked Bo Nix 12th. No one thought Bo Nix was going 12th. And Sean Peyton said, no, no, I see something here that none of you see.

I am an offensive guru. You can laugh now. I'll be laughing later when Bo Nix is quarterbacking this offense. Adam Schaefter went on NFL live this week and reminded everyone that Sean Payton and I guess some other folks within the Broncos had a quote-unquote man crush on Bo Nix pre-draft. That'll get you into trouble. Once you're doing the man-crush thing, I mean, what else are we supposed to think here? Yeah.

I mean, I guess you have on your scouting report, arm, mental aptitude, athleticism, creativity, man-crush rating. Yeah, I mean, listen, again, this is going to relate to something I'm going to talk about at the end. But if you think these NFL organizations are well-oiled machines, let me tell you something. Sometimes it comes down to who you have a man crush on. Well, it's that you have your blue chip guys and then you have your man crushes, which is just kind of like it's a little bit, it's more of an, it's more of an X factor. But I got to imagine that's high up there on the board. So, you know, you can't ignore a man crush. I didn't even see that. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I'm all in on the man crush discourse. There you go. You know, he

had Jared Stidham all of last season, and he couldn't stand Russell Wilson. We all know that, and Jared Stidham started two games. Like, let's not forget that fact. So, yeah, I'm with you. I think it's going to be Bownecks. All right, let me, I gave you a little positivity with the Jets. I'm going to give you a little positivity with the Broncos. I still think Sean Payton, like, at his core is an excellent head coach. They went eight and nine last season. A team sucked. I mean, look at the roster. He hate, again, he hated his quarterback. His quarterback was limited. and they went eight and nine. They didn't go, you know, three and 14.

Look at some of these other, or they were 19th at offensive DVOA last season. So I think he still got a floor-raising ability. Now, that might not get you excited if you're one of us, if you're a Broncos fan, whatever. But I do feel like he kind of has an ability to get a mediocre team out of almost any 53 players. I mean, he's coached 16 seasons in the NFL,

and I know those same teams had Drew Brees and were very good, but even when Drew Brees was coached, cooked or when Drew Brees was injured, he's never gone worse than seven and nine in 16 NFL seasons. It's not quite Mike Tomlin, but like that's, that is still hard to do to not have that one season where injuries or whatever, everything falls apart. So I'm not giving up on Sean Payton, the head coach while, uh, you know, uh, acknowledging that, yes, this could be ugly this season. I agree with you in the sense that I still really believe in Peyton's ability to,

work with particular quarterback skills and to get the most out of a certain type of offense and a certain type of offense that Bonix fits into really well where I'm less bullish is Sean Payton's ability to live an objective reality

where maybe... Especially at this stage of his life maybe. Yeah. Right. Where maybe you don't draft Bonix 12th. Yeah. And here's the thing is like I can see...

I'm telling you that I think Bo Nex is probably going to play. and I'm not And look, beating out Jared Siddham is not the tallest task in the world. So I think that even if it's not because Bo Nex is better, it may coincide with Bo Nex being the better quarterback.

I think he makes these choices because he's bought in on a guy. And I think that is sort of a fatal flaw in coaching. But does, do I think Sean Payton still has the ability to scheme it up? with some of the best of them and to get a fair bit out of a roster?

Yeah. And do I think that he did that to some degree when he wasn't sort of at loggerheads with his quarterback last year? Yes. So I don't want to be like totally, totally out on Denver. It's a great distinction. The decision making, we are allowed to question the talent evaluation. Remember all the broadcast you watched where the announcer told you that they talked to

Sean Payton during the week, and he compared Taysam Hill to Steve Young. Let us not forget those conversations that were actually happening. So yeah, and at this stage, when you're a guy who he's not short on confidence and he's had a lot of success and he's getting paid a lot of money and he has the keys to a franchise that's been struggling, he's going to feel like, oh, I got this. Give me Bow Nicks. Watch this. So you're right. I'm calling all that into question. I think if you sit down on a Monday and say, here are your 53 players. Give us the best. way to win this game on Sunday with these 53. I think there he's probably still like a top 10 coach. Yeah. He can make something happen there. I'm with you there. I just let's not forget that

Jared Stidham was a was a Sean Peyton guy at one point. That's true. They signed him right away. They gave him all that money and and a lot of that came down to that particular endorsement. So it's it's the shopping for the groceries. It's not cooking the meal. There you go. His his mentor, Bill Parcells. Close it out nicely on that note. All right, next one. Again, I'm loving these. We're stealing Brian Curtis's thing.

But only in journalism word skirmish? What do we think? Only in football writer? Is anyone else using skirmish in their everyday lives? No, that's a good question if that applies. I think you get skirmish in other sports. Okay. But I don't know if you get it outside of political reporting.

Do people use skirmish? Not really. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think you hear it a lot other than a training camp fight, which is what happened in La Trobe, Pennsylvania. Perfuffle is my favorite. I like a melee. I am a little, I lean towards a melee. I never gravitate to melee, but when I see someone else use it, I'm a little jealous.

Yeah. See, these are the conversations we have, people. You don't know. Sometimes it's behind the, it's when we're off, Mike, but now we're just bringing it to you on Mike. A skirmish at Steelers Camp, Latrobe, Pennsylvania, maybe one of the most old school training camps from everything. the way Mike Tomlin runs it, the surroundings, the sleeping in dorms, all that. There was a skirmish after a hit on Justin Fields. This is from the athletic.

Justin Fields kept the ball on a reed option to the right side. And veteran linebacker, you Landon Roberts, gave him a little shoulder. And Fields went to the turf. His offensive lineman came over to protect him. There's some good videos of this circulating on the internet. If you want to see a little skirmish or a little melee, So that was an incident that happened at camp this week. Now, Justin Fields is in there because Russell Wilson is still not back to full strength from the calf injury.

He's participating in parts of practice, but in the team periods, when they have the pads on, he is not participating. So Steelers check in for you, Nora, anything to glean from the skirmish. Are you interested that Justin Fields is getting these opportunities so early? Is there anything about, hey, the offensive line came over to protect him right away. That's a good sign. What is your overall take on this little incident in Latrobe, Pennsylvania? Well, so first of all, I fell for disinformation on this because there was a tweet going around with the video where someone falsely claimed that the skirmish centered between Fields and Wilson. And the story was that Fields had said something like, you know, most expensive backup in the league.

And my fiancé. Oh, that would be so much juicier. I know. And that's what I mean, of course that didn't happen. But it's just you want it because you love drama. You want it to be true. Like, this is last night. My fiance takes his phone and puts it in my face and I see that video.

And I look at it. And my first thought is like, oh my God, this is the best. And then my second thought is this can't. possibly be real. And then I start looking in a little bit more closely and you see, you know, Russell Wilson, he's got his number three and he's sort of in the corner. So it did not end up being real, but just for one glorious moment, Sheel, I can't tell you how excited I was. I do think there's something to the fact that it seems like his teammates are responding to Justin Fields. I think the fact that he's getting these extra reps because Wilson is coming back from

his calf being banged up is meaningful because to me, I think Justin Fields could give the Steelers more this season than Russell Wilson, just based on where I think Russ is at this point in his career and the flashes that Fields has showed, although he hasn't been able to be consistently a good quarterback, but I think just because he's got a lot more obviously in terms of athleticism, I would rather see Justin Fields as the Steelers starting quarterback. And really the only thing that has seemed in the way of that has just been, and this is obviously an outsider's perspective, but just been that at one point it seemed like Mike Tomlin had just decided that it was Russell Wilson's job to lose.

And so if you build in feeling like Fields has more to offer, feeling like in particular in this offense that it seems like they're trying. trying to install that Arthur Smith is excited about, where it's a lot of power run game, heavy personnel, having a quarterback with that level of mobility as long as he can hit the downfield shots that that should open up for them, which it seems like, you know, I don't want to do the viral training camp video thing, but there's some nice throws that I'm seeing to George Pickens in the back of the end zone, two-minute drill, you know, people are getting excited. If this is the thing that forces their hand, that forces Pittsburgh's hand to give Fields a real shake at this, I think he's going to end up winning the job. And I don't think

that it's irrelevant to that, that it seems like the team is buying into that. It seems like they're excited at practice. I'll say, since this was a visual, you know, you want to watch the video of the skirmish, there's photos of it going around. You know who looks. And animated as heck is Arthur Smith. Yeah. This man is just like screaming his head off on the sidelines. You've seen these photos of fields. He's gotten into it a little bit more in terms of they've been able to install a little bit more of the designed run game since he's gotten those extra reps.

Wall Wilson's been banged up. I think the first couple of days they focused much more on having him stay in the pocket, but they moved into some of that. And every time I see a photo where, you know, it's Fields on a keeper, he's booting him out, they're doing stuff like that. If you can see Arthur Smith in the background of the photo, he's just, he's like, he's losing his mind with excitement. So I think, I do think it's meaningful just because I think, I think this means that Fields is getting a chance to win the job.

Yeah, you never, I'm sure they didn't want Russell Wilson to suffer a calf entry. But I'm sure once it happened, they were kind of. of like, let's take a look. And I'm sure there's a conversation between Arthur Smith and Mike Tomlin. Hey, let's get some of this designed run game in there. And let's see how it looks. And their players keep talking about. We want to be the most physical offense in the NFL.

And we want to play a bully ball. And normally I roll my eyes at that kind of stuff. All right, every team says that. They kind of have the personnel to do that with their offensive line right now, with their backs in Najee Harris and Jalen Warren with their offensive coordinator in Arthur Smith. Again, I don't know that it's going to work, but like, I'm not rolling my eyes at that because I'm like, ooh, that could be an interesting run game with Justin Fields back there. And I mentioned in a previous pod, they were 15th in offensive DVOA last year. Like we talked about that. That was with Matt Canada and Kenny Pickett and Mason Rudolph to an extent. Like we talk about them like they were absolute trash, one of the worst offenses in the NFL. And to be fair, watching them, it felt like, you know, there were absolutely times where it felt like that. I was surprised when I was doing my summer work. I was like, oh, okay, statistically, that doesn't back up exactly how I remember it. So I do think it's interesting that Field is getting this opportunity.

And I don't know if it's going to work, but they're just so much more interesting than they've been recently. Like at first I was like, I think we talked about the Steelers last show. Maybe I said, I'm like, no, this is interesting. You know, this is interesting to me, what happens. and what you brought up about why is Russell Wilson the presumptive starter. I think the timeline there is worth revisiting because they sign Russell Wilson and they basically tell him, yes, you are going to be the starter.

Then Kenny Pickett doesn't like that. Then they trade Kenny Pickett. Then they bring in Justin. Like if they would have added Justin Fields and Russell Wilson at the same time whenever it was in March or April, Mike Tomlin very well could have been like, this is an open competition and they're going to, but I think there was a commitment made to Russell Wilson. And, you know, at the end of, you have to honor that to a point. And then you have to go with the guy who if there's someone everyone can see is the better option. And if that happens,

and the players know it and the coaches know it, it's the NFL. It's not, you know, like youth football. They're just going to go with the guy who gives them the best chance to win. So yeah, it could continue to be sort of an under the radar intriguing team to me this summer. I mean, it's a genuine competition, right? And with all respects to our friends in Denver, I do think it's a little bit more juicy than Bo Nix versus Jared Stidham. The thing that I come back to, to your point about the timeline, is that even though they're not investing a lot financially in either one of these quarterbacks, Justin Fields still making more from the Steelers than Russell Wilson. Now, Russell's taken home a lot more in total compensation, but that's coming from speaking of our friends in Denver. That's not coming from Pittsburgh.

And now I don't want to make too much of 1.7 million versus 3.2 because that's not very much from an NFL perspective. But it's teams know who they're paying more money to. And I do think that if the timeline had been different and they hadn't made that promise is too strong word, but commitment to Russ to kind of let him be the incumbent, then maybe we would look at this a little bit more different. differently, but if this injury and the fact that Fields is taking advantage of it by playing well in the reps that he's getting is what it takes to create a permission structure for them to go to Russell and say, hey, look, like, it's unfortunate that you got hurt, but we can't deny what's happening here and he's taken a step forward, then maybe that ends up helping

them a little bit. Yeah, and Fields is so much younger. I mean, if you're just going to say, hey, what's the best case scenario with each of these guys? The best case scenario with Field is so much more meaningful to your franchise than the best case scenario with Russell Wilson. So we'll say, all right, let's take one more break. We'll come back. We've got two more for you. And then we'll close out the show. All right, back on the Ringer NFL show.

Cheat motion, Nora Prince Yati took our circles of the football internet by Storm today. Nerd alert! Nerd alert. Pro football talk. Their report is here is. the key sentence, they tell you the rule article in section. I'm not going to bore you with that. But it says any eligible backfield player who changes his stance does not have to come to a complete stop prior to the snap as long as his actions are not abrupt, a false start or forward illegal motion. And then they say a per a source with knowledge of the situation that's directly aimed at the split second forward movement by players in motion.

The dolphins, the 49ers, and the Rams. it last year. So if you're trying to visualize in your head, what we're talking about here, picture Tyree Kill, either in the backfield or going from one side to the other at full speed, doesn't stop. The ball snaps. He's got a head start on whatever poor defensive back is trying to cover him. And the dolphins get a 35-yard completion, all because of this motion that the dolphins used so much last year. So what's different about this? My understanding, and I don't know what you think about it is that this was kind of already in the rulebook, and it might just be emphasized more that that player cannot go forward towards the line of scrimmage

until the ball is snapped and that they're going to enforce that a little bit more. What did you think when you saw kind of the hubbub about this today? Yeah, and we should say that it's, you know, the folks in our industry seem to be working through a little bit of this specifics of this in real time. But my take is that from the perspective of what is the NFL trying to accomplish with this change, it's not that cheat motion is cheating. And they're trying to stop these teams from cheating by using cheat motion. It's that they think they're cheating at cheat motion.

Right. And that's what they want to tamp down on. Because so if, you know, it's the quick motion from the receiver outward at the last second before the snap. Part of the reason these teams like it is because it does blur the line a little bit from an officiating perspective of, okay, when exactly was the ball snapped, had Debo Samuel or Tyree Kill or whoever turned upfield a little bit before the ball was actually snapped or was it simultaneous or was it a little bit after. And that vertical motion, happening before the snap is what already was illegal,

is what it seems like they are now emphasizing the illegality of. And, you know, from the perspective of how this actually impacts the game, I don't think that this means that you're going to see this type of motion go away. It's really effective for these teams. The offensive minds and the coaches who tend to use it the most, in the Mike McDaniel, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVeigh, Circle, although other teams, like the Titans started using it a little bit. It's, it's, you know, it's a copycat league. It's spread. Those aren't guys who tend to go backwards, right? Like, they like this. They think it's effective.

They have these incredible playmakers and they want to get them with a full head of steam. So I don't think this by any means says that we're going to not see this. I do think that it becomes another thing where we're going to be talking about hairline officiating decisions. Seriously. I can just see it. I mean, that is honestly what I think. I think you'll see. And you described it well. They're not taking this motion out of their playbook. They're still going to do this motion. If anything, they're going to need to focus on, hey, before you turn up, field, just make sure that the ball is being snapped or else we can get called for a penalty. So you'll probably see an emphasis in the preseason. Maybe I could easily see.

or September first month of the season, this is a big story coming out of one of the weekends. That, oh, my gosh, this was called in the fourth quarter against the Miami Dolphins, and they were down by six, and it took a touchdown off the board. And oh, my, can you imagine if this is the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs? Like, who was complaining? Honestly, all we do, our jobs are literally to talk to just like everyone in the – I don't remember anybody bringing this up to me that this was a big issue.

I agree with you. It has not been in my world whatsoever. And I want so badly to complain about the overreaching and over-rules-oriented NFL and they put too much in the hands of replays and officials. And I really want to complain about that here. Here's what I got to say. Don't call it cheat motion. If you don't want the league to come knocking on your door and try to put a stop to it, Kyle Shanahan.

Yeah, that's right. He gets up there in a press conference. He goes, we call it cheat motion because it's kind of cheating. He-he-he-he-he-he. Dude, don't do this to yourself. This is such an own goal. If you want it to stay, if you don't want to be in this situation where we're talking about, we got a new point of emphasis.

Don't say that you were doing something inherently illegal when it actually isn't. Yeah, that's well said. We didn't name it. They named it. We're allowed to rip them for this. I guess they are not. We'll see. This is me reaping, me sewing for Kyle Shanahan, Shanahan, I got to say.

I really hope this is the last time we talk about this on a podcast. I don't think this is going to be the last time we talk about this on a podcast. There's going to be some incident. I do think part of why they were enamored of it is because I do think they knew that you could be a little cheeky with it. Yes, there are examples. Yeah, there are plays circulating

where they didn't get called and they're going forward. There's no doubt about it. So you're probably right. Hopefully that's all it is. If you play defense in the NFL, the idea that there is sort of like a rules loophole or a workaround where Tyreek Hill can get ahead of steam and can start going upfield before the ball is snapped,

like I'd have some comments too. on the other hand, ultimately, in general, we don't see the league crack down too much on these things that emphasize offense. So I don't think it'll be that big of a deal, but I agree with you that I'm just sort of holding my breath for the one pivotal call, but we'll see, and hopefully it won't be too big of a deal.

Yeah, I can be sympathetic to the DBs. I love defensive players complaining about offensive rule changes. I actually can't get enough of that. So there you go. I changed my tune already on that one. All right, here's how we finish the show. a little something we'd like to call reality corner. You're saying, Sheal, what are you talking about?

This is the Ringer NFL show. What do you mean reality corner? There's many great pods on the Ringer in the Ringer podcast. Reality, morally corrupt. Yeah. There's, I mean, there's so many where you can get that well. We're talking about football reality. And honestly, I just needed to get some takes off on Giants Hard Knocks.

And then Nora said she's got some takes to get off on the receiver show, on the Cowboys Cheer Show. So we're not going to do a massive deep dive here, but I know you didn't watch the hard knocks nor. First of all, I would say treat yourself to that between now. I'm thinking about it. Yes. I was sort of philosophically against it because I was annoyed at the decision to just like,

there are so many hard knocks now. It's they're doing the whole division and we have the regular training camp one. And here's the off season. And I, as someone who sometimes feels professionally obligated to watch all of this stuff, sort of mounted a little individual protest by just being like, no, there is one true hard knocks. And I'll be watching that hard knocks. But now I've heard that it was pretty juicy and good. So I guess I got to go back and get into that. Yeah, honestly, I was in the same boat. And then I saw the clip circulate and I said, let me give this a shot. And then I'm like,

I'm in. So I love this show for a different reason. It was the Giants. It was an offseason hard Knox because it was different than the training camp, Hard Knocks. It was the GM. It was the owner. It was the coaching staff. It was the scout. It was other front office people what they do from the day your season ends to basically through the draft. The last show ended through the draft. And as you know, I am team off season or I love the off season more than the end season. So maybe I was just the target audience. But let me tell you two things that I really liked about this. Number one. And this goes back to that Broncos discussion. I don't know about you. Growing up when I was younger, I thought like to get to the NFL, oh my God, you might, if you're working on a coaching staff

in the front of anywhere in the building, honestly, you had to be the absolute best and the brightest at what you did. Like I never even thought about could I work in an NFL building. That was too high. I was like, I'll write about them. I'll talk about them. I can't work in an actual building. I'm not that brilliant. Then I started covering the NFL. And I started talking to coaches and assistant coaches and GMs and the other people in the organization. And I left many of those conversations and continued to leave many of those conversations.

And I really don't mean to sound like a no at all. Like, oh man, give me the keys to a franchise and I'd build this. That's not what I'm saying. But a lot of times you leave these conversations and are like, That's it? Like, that was the insight? You're giving me? You're like, what? And then I realized, okay, well, how did that person get their job? It wasn't because they, you know, this is a meritocracy. It was because they were buddies with the guy at a D3 college in 1998. And he called them up and said, you want a job? And he said, yeah, sounds great. And then he gave him a job.

It was because he was their brother or their son or their nephew or their cousin or their grandson. Or it was politics. You know, he was just a shm. or that everybody, hey, I like getting drinks with this guy. I like going to lunch with this guy. It's that kind of thing. And so I thought this show without naming like anyone specifically because they seem like nice people in the show. But I thought this show did a great job of being like, it's not as high level as some people

might think. I mean, Nora, they're looking at running backs here. And someone's like, didn't Josh Jacobs lead the NFL in yards once? Like this is like sea level blogger conversation. Dayball's literally scrolling through his phone, I assume pro football reference, and he's going through the quarterbacks that were drafted in the first round. It's like, bust, bust, these don't have a huge hit rate. I'm like, what? I mean, the episodes on free agency when I'm sorry, I'm spoiling it for you and anyone else who wants to watch, but like, and they're like so surprised at what guys are going

for and don't have a plan B. And it's wild. And they're like, and listen, I know some of it is probably, they might have said, hey, recreate this conversation that you just had. Let's make it for TV. I don't know how much of that happened, honestly, whether it happened or not. But that's the number one reason why I love this show. And again, it doesn't mean I can just come on here and be like, these guys are all idiots. I'm smarter. Trust me, that's not what I'm trying to do. There are some people in the NFL who are very good at their jobs. There are a lot of people in the NFL who you would walk away from and not be that impressed with what they're telling you. So that's my one reason. I love it. So that's fascinating. And from the TV side, I think that's great news for Hard Knocks. Because what you're talking about is enjoying watching it because you felt like you got these people in kind of unvarnished moments. Like we're not putting any glossy sheen on this. This is like, this is what it's actually like.

This is, oh, man, like, are they going to be happy that this was on camera like that? And that's what I felt like Hard Knocks used to get. And I wondered if it was starting to go in a direction of, you know, they have to make more, they have to be a little bit more conciliatory to the teams because it's sort of common knowledge at this point that a lot of the teams don't want to do it. And it's always a little bit of a process getting teams to agree. You had the situation with the Jets last year where that coaching staff was able to impose some more restrictions on what they could film and what they couldn't. And that in combination with just the fact that, you know,

regular training camp hard knocks, those of us who watch it regularly, you see kind of the recurring stories that they do, the undrafted guy, maybe he's going to make it, maybe he's not. And sometimes that's great. But it does, it becomes a little, it becomes a little well-worn.

And so I had started to worry a little bit with the hard Knox franchise in general, which I really enjoy, that it was losing its potency a bit. And I'm so excited by this because here you are telling me that we got people just shooting from the hip with some free agency takes in a meeting and they've got it all on camera. I don't know if it's great news for the giants, but I think it's great news for Hard Knocks. Yeah, listen, I'm sure there are other conversations that didn't make air that are more involved, But still, unless these are just fake conversations. And if they are, someone tell me, they didn't seem like fake conversations.

And again, they see it like, Joe Shane seems like a nice guy. Like I would love to have Joe Shane, you know, as my neighbor. I'd seem like he treated his staff well and everyone got along. And I think that's a big part about being a GM. But just the conversations they were having about roster building and what decisions they're going to make. That to me was very interesting. But yeah, I don't think anyone would, anyone involved in the show would leave that show being like, They painted me in a great light.

And the team had final say on what was showing and what was not shown. So that was one. And then the second thing and I'll end my hard knocks thing on this is I really liked the owner dynamics, Nora, because there was the whole Sequin Barclay storyline. And it was so clear that Joe Shane had no interest in bringing Sequin Barclay back. Yet he had to kind of pretend because John Mara, the owner, really wanted Seekwon Barclay back. That clip, you know, everybody probably saw that one. And it looked like Shane had no interest.

So he had to kind of walk this line of like, yeah, you know, I don't know. We'll see what number he gets. And he's keeping in touch. And it felt like putting up a front that, yeah, no, we're kind of interested, get back to us type thing. And I actually thought that is a great thing that everyone should know is that part of being in the NFL is knowing who has the power to keep you and to fire you and that those relationships matter. And if you've worked a long time to get to a certain spot, you can't just be like, he can't just be like, John, no. We don't want Sequin. Trust me, running back value.

This is bad. Are you sure? Like, you kind of had to, you have to appease the person making the final decision on your job and your livelihood. And you probably only get one shot at it. So when there's like a situation for an owner where he's like, he or she's like, should I fire this person or keep him? Like, are you going to get the benefit of the doubt sometimes comes down to?

Does that person like you personally or not? And so I thought it did a good job of. illustrating that. So there you go. By the way, anyone in the media who's like, oh, they show too much, are you serious? Like, what are you talking about? Like, this isn't, you don't work for the NFL. I thought, I thought it was, I thought they did a great job. I enjoyed every minute of it. Everyone should be miced at all times. Yeah, it was fantastic. So there you go. All right, what do you have for us in reality corner to finish the show? Well, here's, here's all I'll add for you. I was curious on how much you enjoyed the Giants Hard Knocks just from the perspective of I've felt a little bit less enthusiastic about Hard Knocks, but that's been interesting because it's happened at a time when it seems like this kind of quasi-documentary style football-adjacent content is really proliferating.

I watched the receiver series, which was sort of interesting on Netflix, Stephen and I talked. talked about it at one point. Best takeaway from that is just, man, did Devante Adams not like Jimmy Garoppelow? And it was interesting to get some real insights into that. Here's what I will say is if part of your takeaway from the Giant series was just, it's interesting to see things and think, man. So did that organization or that person like how they were portrayed in this? they okayed it. They said it was okay to put out there. So what does that mean in terms of whether

or not they see this as a problem or not? If that's your style, man, is the Dallas Cowboys cheerleader documentary for you? It's fascinating. It's really, really interesting. But there are some moments with the Jones family in particular, and Charlotte Jones, who has a leadership role with the cheerleaders specifically where the look at how the sausage gets made is eye-opening. All right. I think you sold me. Everyone involved said, yep, let's put that on Netflix. Well, listen, to Jerry Jones's credit, and I've been ripping Jerry Jones all off season,

he at least understands the benefit of like exposure of your franchise and let's not, you know, let's show people the NFL. So that might be the only thing I give him credit on this offseason. All right. There you go. Your reality was a successful first reality corner for us. It was a fun show. Thank you to Nora Prince Yaddy.

Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna, Ramgopal. We will be back next week to talk more on the Ringer NFL show.