The Ringer NFL Show - Justin Jefferson Gets Paid, and Drafting the Top Wide Receivers for the '24-25 Season

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

Sheil, Steven, and Austin start by discussing Justin Jefferson becoming the highest-paid non-quarterback in the NFL (3:09). Then, they each draft five wide receivers who they think will be the best in the league this upcoming season (10:42). Lastly they talked about the passing of Hall of Famer Larry Allen and the memories they had of him (1:14:20). Hosts: Austin Gayle, Sheil Kapadia, and Steven Ruiz Producer: Isaiah Blakely Social: Kiera Givens Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town, on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name's Matt Bellany. I'm founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter. And with my show, The Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week, we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight, which streamer is on the brink of collapse, and which executive is on the hot seat. Disney, Netflix, who's up, down, and who'll never eat lunch in this town again? Follow the town on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show.

Shield Kapati here, joined by my friends, Stephen Ruiz and Austin Gale. It's wide receivers day. I will explain in a moment, but Justin Jefferson got his deal, which was perfect timing for the exercise we're going to do today. But Ruiz, I feel like Austin just did a full podcast in like the five minutes. before we came on. Do you think he'll have anything left now that we're recording? It wasn't just a podcast. It was a loaded podcast. He had on like five different topics in five minutes, I think. Welcome to my brain, guys. Welcome to my brain. You think I'm thinking about one thing. It's actually 50.

Okay? People are like make that expression about like what you have on the back burner. I have 10 back burners. Okay. There's stuff back there. I didn't even remember I had and then I have to bring it back up and it's still cooking. It's tough. It's tough. Imagine being in this brain. Okay. It's a prison. It's a prison. Austin's brain has 30 tabs open at all times. Yeah, that's exactly right. Excellent way to put it. As soon as I asked you, do you think Austin will have anything left? I'm going to show, what is this question? I've never known Austin to be low energy or not have a take, just loaded up here. So here's what we're doing today.

It's going to be fun. We've got a wide receiver draft coming your way. Okay. Here are the rules. It's going to be just for the 2024 season. So just this season, not the next three, not the next five, not the rest of their careers. Just 2024, you're a coach or a GM. You get your pick of any wide receiver in the NFL. Who do you want? And by the way, contracts don't matter. We didn't want to complicate it with,

oh, this guy makes this much. And right. No, no, no, no. Listen, I like doing the nerd stuff. I like it. But it's June 3rd. We're not getting into that whose base salary and roster bonuses. No, no, it's just, who do you like? Who do you think is the best? Was that you mocking yourself? Yes, that's me. And my favorite, my favorite part of extra point taken. Philly special is when Shield does that voice where he's mocking somebody, but I don't know necessarily who. And I love that it's just like this little whiny bastard. And I'm like, whoever that is, you nail it. Okay, because I do think that guy sucks. Let's be serious. It's Solac. I was going to say we should give him a name, but I don't know, really just gave him a name.

So Solac, yes, we love you. We miss you. All right. So that's the exercise. It's going to be fun. Just which wide receiver do you think is the best for this season. So that's what we're going to do. and we have a good jumping off point here, which we can just start off by talking about this before we make the first pick. Justin Jefferson gets the new deal. Four years, $140 million. Ruiz, let's start with you.

What did you think when this news broke Monday morning? I mean, I didn't really think much about the money. I was like, yeah, that makes sense. He's the best receiver in the NFL. He's the only receiver right now outside of, I would say, Tyree Kill, that could take over a game. And we've seen that on multiple occasions. like my mind can't erase the,

the Bills game from two years ago, where he single-handedly brought Minnesota back. And I literally mean single-handedly. He was making one-handed catches. He brought him back in that game. And the thing is, if you look back at that game, Kirk Cousins didn't even play well in the fourth quarter. That's how good Justin Jefferson was.

As long as the ball got within 10 feet of him, he was going to make a catch. And that wasn't like a one-off thing. Like he was doing that throughout the season. He's been doing that. He was doing it throughout the first half of the last season. And there isn't a weakness in his game. Like I don't know what you could point out.

He can deal with press. He can be in the slot. He can go out wide. He can affect the game underneath. He can affect the game over the middle. You can affect the game intermediate area. He can go deep. He can make stuff happen after the catch.

He's just a great route runner and a great wide receiver and a great catcher of the football and a great playmaker. So you can't overpay a guy like that. He changes games. And so I have no like positional value take on this contract whatsoever. Austin, what about you? Would you make of this deal getting done at this point? And whether it means anything or whether it's just Toham, yeah, expected it. Let's move on.

I think that it was bound to happen, right? I think no matter where you are in your team building, you know, level, right? Like obviously they just added JJ McCarthy. They still have Sam Darnold there. There's people talking about maybe they're competing for the starting role. So your quarterback position is relatively unsolved, right? We don't know who is going to be the guy in Minnesota. They're going to try and make J.J. McCarthy the guy.

but they don't know if he's actually the guy or a future franchise quarterback. Moving on from Kirk Cousins, does not change the fact that Justin Jefferson is the best or arguably the best wide receiver in the NFL, the exact type of player you have to pay whatever he wants. And it turns out whatever he wanted was to be the highest paid non-quarterback in the NFL.

I read from multiple reports that it was very important for him to get ahead of the Nick Bosa $34 million average annual salary. So he gets to 35. He has a lot of this money front-loaded and guarantees. It's the right contract. I think it's smart that they got it ahead of CD Lamb, though I think it was always going to come ahead of CD Lamb. There were reports that they were going to come near a contract before last season, before those broke down. He gets 35 million AAV.

No one's worried about that. Justin Jefferson loves that. I think the Minnesota Vikings love that. I think the only other like real comment I have on this contract is even when this gets big, right? When the cap hit gets big for 2024, it's only 8.5 million. For 2025, it's only 15 million. 15 million, only 5.6% of the current cap in the league. then in 2026 and 2027, it gets to $39 million and $43 million.

That's still on the current cap, which we know is going to continue to balloon as the NFL makes more money and another streamer gets involved. Here comes Christmas Day games. Here comes the day after Christmas games. Here comes Netflix. Here comes Peacock. You're going to get more money, right? That 13% number is going to be 12 and then 11.

And then this deal is going to become a value because the NFL continues to make money hand over fist. People forget 93 of the 100 most watched television programs in 2020, were the NFL. Four other ones were college football, and then one other one was the show that came on after the Super Bowl. So the NFL continues to eat. And as it eats, the cap gets bigger. Making these contracts has never been easier. The only problem with contracts now is, is the player good? And as we know, Justin Jefferson, the best, if not arguably the best receiver in the NFL. Yeah, I agree with everything you guys said. I mean, this would be an easy, like the only thing that I'm wondering is why did it take until June 3rd?

If I'm the Vikings, this seems like it would have been easy business. You have a player in his prime. He's entering his age 25 season. He's the best at what he does. It's a premium position. And yes, you can easily justify paying him as the top non-quarterback in the NFL. So $35 million per year. As you mentioned, according to pro football talk, it's 88.7 fully guaranteed at signing.

Although I kind of look at this as a quarterback contract where it's like, yeah, does the guaranteed money even matter? Like he's going to get a, like under what scenario are the Vikings like, yeah, you know, we want to release you. But man, this guaranteed money that we owe you know, he's going to play out this contract under almost every scenario. And then, by the way, he'll enter what age 29 season. He'll be up for another deal there. He'll probably get extended before that. So yes, made sense for the Vikings. Makes great sense for Justin Jefferson, a win-win regardless of where they are in their franchise building timeline here.

I had one more way into this conversation that I wanted to ask you guys. Justin Jefferson, I think the most common tweet I've seen talking about this contract is, man, he was taking one pick after Jalen Rager, the former TCU receiver that did not pan out in the NFL. And then he was taken two picks after Caleb on Chase on, the edge defender out of LSU, the same team as Justin Jefferson, who has not panned out in Jacksonville. Is this continued the drafts to crapshoot? No one knows anything. or is there actual lessons to learn from Justin Jefferson,

who is the fifth wide receiver taken in his draft class, now becoming the highest paid receiver in NFL history, though I think that context is kind of bullshit because every receiver contract ends up becoming that. But like, is there any take, maybe Stephen or Shield, whoever, like, is there anything to take away from this? Or is it, again, just another example that no one knows anything? I'll say that I think I had Jefferson as like wide receiver seven in that,

before that class. I had like, I forget who was in that class? It was Devante Smith, Jamar Chase, and there was one other guy. Jalen Waddle. Jalen Waddle. Yeah, Waddle. I think it's sort of similar to my take on evaluating quarterbacks where it's just so hard to translate stuff, especially with that team, that LSU team, where Jemar Chase is on it,

Jefferson's obviously on it. And he was playing in the slot. He was like playing in a role that he didn't necessarily have to play. And there's no way for us to know that on the outside looking in. So I think the one takeaway from this, especially from that perspective, the draft evaluation perspective, is that like, I don't think we should assume just because a wide receiver played a certain role in college that that's all he can play. And I think we need to actually pay attention to what he was doing on the field. And that's like a lesson that we should already know. So I don't even know if we're learning that from Jefferson specifically.

Yeah, I was covering the Eagles at the time and famously infamously defended. Oh, no, Raker is a good prospect like this. this is fine to take him over Justin Jefferson. I don't know if there's a way to delete any and all records of that now. Maybe on my vacation, that can be a project for me. Honestly, since then,

I just, with wide receivers, I want production at the college level. Like if you're, I don't, I don't like taking a guy in the first round, especially where I'm making excuses. How the quarterback play was bad.

Like, I want production. And if I can get production in the SEC, like a guy who just balls out in the, then it's like, I'm okay missing on that guy. I'm not saying that's going to be like the, easy formula. But I feel like the more and more I thought after about why did I screw that up

so badly, I was like, don't overthink it. If a guy is a monster at the highest level of college football at wide receiver and you take him and he doesn't pan out in the NFL, you can live with that rather than overthinking it and saying, oh, well, this guy is better at this, X, Y, Z and didn't have a good quarterback. So that was the lesson I personally learned in a very embarrassing fashion there to answer your question. Austin. Okay. Wide receiver draft time, baby. Let's do it. Here we go. I gave you the ground. It was, again, just who do you want? 20-24 season. Pick your wide receiver. Our wonderful producer, Isaiah Blakely, did the random draft order here. Austin gets the first pick. What did he pay? Isaiah, we'll get to the bottom of that. Stephen,

second pick. I'm third. We're going snake order. I feel like there's going be some graphic with this, and one of us is going to get clowned for one. But you know what? Some of these on taking. swings. I'll let you know right now. I'm going to take some swings. You're going to make fun of me. That's the fun aspect of this. We're projecting. It's not just who was the best last year. So, Austin, do you believe like the Vikings did that the man Justin Jefferson is going to be the best wide receiver in the NFL in 2024? Or are you starting us out with a curve ball? What do you got? I'm going to start us out with a curve ball. And I'm sorry about it. I'm sorry about it. I'm sorry about it. Ruiz. I'll trade up for the second pick.

I'm like, you know, taking Sam Bowie over Jordan. This was something I thought about for a while. You know, the peg for this pod is Justin Jefferson getting the big contract. The easy way in, right? The easy way in is to just take Justin Jefferson. No one's going to be upset with me. People might debate whether or not I should have taken the guy I'm going to take,

but no one's going to be upset with me. Now I'm going to have the first overall pick, and I'm probably going to make some enemies. But I'm going Tyree Kill. Tyra Kill is my pick at the top. He is entering his age 30. season. And as someone who's just turned 30 years old, it's bad. It sucks. And to quote Sean Fennacy, the ringer's own, it only gets worse. And I believe that. I know that to be true.

He is older and he knows it to be true. I know it to be true. Now, Tyree Kill, for me, there's probably only one stat necessary here. There was a time during last season where it was almost like everyone thought Tyree Kill was going to get 2,000 yards. Now he didn't. There were some injuries, you know, we only ended up running, what, 5171 routes, which ranked, or 521 routes last year, which ranked, you know, outside the top 5, outside the top 10, in terms of how many routes you're running because of some of those injuries and still got 1,800 receiving yards last year. And even beyond the production for Tyree Kill, which arguably one of the most productive receivers over the last 510 years, he's had 1,700 plus yards

in back-to-back seasons. He's had 1,500 plus yards in six of the last seven seasons. He is one of the most product receivers in the league, throw that out, then factor in every other play where he is always on the defense's mind because of how fast he is and because of what he can do to defenses from any alignment on the football field, good versus press, good against or not against press. He is, in my opinion, the most dangerous receiver in the NFL, both when he's targeted and when he's not targeted.

Maybe if you said to me only on plays that they're targeted, Justin Jefferson versus Tyree Kill. So 10 targets in a row. Maybe I take Jefferson. But Tyree Kill to me affects the game on a higher percentage of plays than Justin Jefferson does because of the speed and because of the dynamism and he's a good route runner and he can get off press. His leaping ability is underrated.

His contested catch ability is underrated. Tyree Kill to me, the only worry is injuries and age. But he has yet to be a receiver that has been consistently played by injuries. And when you look at Justin Jefferson missed a bulk of last season because of a hamstring injury. And we know Christian Watson knows, Keenan Allen knows, lot of receivers know Cooper Cup knows hamstring injuries they don't go away so that's always a worry with Justin Jefferson with Tyro Kill kill I'm going with him with the first overall pick I know that's dangerous I know that's scary but maybe just as scary as Tyra Kill himself

Ruiz what do you think I mean yours is never looked happier you know in in I mean it's sitting yeah what do you think of the curveball Austin just threw I mean I'm excited because I get Justin Jefferson I mean I'm excited because I get Justin Jefferson I get what he's saying and I was on the Tyreek his wide receiver one train like a year and a half ago. My thing with Tyreek is he doesn't play on the line of scrimmage, which I think is a big deal. He plays off the line of scrimmage, gets protected from press coverage. He's in motion a lot. Jalen Waddle is that ex-receiver for that team.

It is not Tyreekill. Jalen Waddle is the intermediate threat for that team. He's the third down target for that team. It depends on the yardage, obviously, the distance. But I think that speaks to Tyreek's skill set, like how well-rounded it is. I think there are some gaps in his game that other top receivers like Justin Jefferson fill in. And then Justin Jefferson can replicate that effect that he has on defenses, that Tyreek Hill has on defenses. Not in the same way.

Like you're not worried that Justin Jefferson is necessarily going to take the top off your defense, but he gets double-teamed situationally. And the one thing I'll say about Justin Jefferson is he beats the double teams, even when they double-team him. The Giants tried to double-team him when they played later on in the year two years ago. And it didn't matter. Kirk Cousin still targeted him. He still caught a touchdown on third and ten against a double team. team when you can do that and i've never seen i don't see tyree kill doing that that often and you can

first of all they put two guys on you and you still beat them are they going to put a third guy on you when you've shift the numbers that much and you can affect the game from anywhere on the field any alignment no matter where they put you i'm taking that guy over tyrie kill even though tyrie kill does i i do think like the high end impact that he has on the game is different from what jefferson does. But I think Jefferson impacts a game in a multitude of ways. Yeah, I always talk about the armpit test. You know, you got the opposing defensive coordinator on a Monday or Tuesday. Who's making them sweat under there? And you got to change your shirt. And I do think Tyree Kill probably passes that test more than any other non-quarterback

in the NFL. So from that perspective, you know, I thought when he got traded from the chief to the dolphins, I'm like, oh, the dolphins think he's going to leave Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid and be more productive. Give me a break. That's exactly what you. what he did. Somehow he left Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid and became more productive in two seasons with the dolphins. I mean, every stat you look at with Tyreek Hill, yards, yards per route, I mean, you can just name it over and over again over the last two seasons. He's like one or two in the entire league. So I think the concerns, you mentioned it, you know, and we'll get more age stuff, I'm sure, with some of these selections. But my theory with age is that the further out I go

from like where the ball is snap, the more concerned I get about age. If you look at it, the last three seasons, wide receivers 30 or older, who had a thousand yards, there's five of them. Mike Evans, Keenan Allen, Devante Adams, DeAndre Hopkins, Adam Thielen, five in the last three season. So it doesn't happen that often. Now, we're only drafting for one season, not for the next three. So I think that that's justified with Tyreek Hill.

The other thing I will say, though, I didn't want to be in position to draft Tyreek Hill because, you know, all the off-field stuff, and I know he hasn't, like, been suspended recently, but it wouldn't surprise. I mean, these are some of the most, like, heinous, troublesome acts we've seen by an NFL player, really, in the last decade or two. And I don't think it would surprise any of us to wake up one day in July and read a headline that was very troublesome about Tyreek Hill.

So that certainly, you know, at least has to get mentioned. It's different than the on-field stuff, no doubt about it. But that is part of the whole package when you talk about Tyreek Hill. Wow, problematic pick by Austin. Wow. You guys are making me regret it. But I still feel like the thing that I would have, I think I'm picking Jefferson this time next year. Right. His age 31 and age 32 season, I don't know if I'm still backing Tyree Kill. However, coming off the year he did and still only being 30 years old, not making that 31 turn.

Because I know we're going to have some receivers like Devante Adams being considered here, Keenan Allen being considered even January Hopkins, Mike Evans. There's some other Cooper Cup, Stefan Diggs. There's some other 30-year-old or older receivers we're probably going to consider on this list. With Tyreek, I don't think I take him first after this season. I think this is his last, like chance, his last full season where he can be the best in the league. And if I pass on that, after seeing what he did last year and what he did the year before, I'd feel foolish. Because I really do think he still has another 1,800-yard-plus season in him, especially in the offense that he's in. And now that's a factor in this as well, the cheat motion, Mac Mac Mac Mac-McDaniel, pairing with Jalen Waddle, having to a tongue-a-law, essentially throw him blind.

That's another piece of this as well. But I don't know. I find myself really debating Justin Jefferson and Tyra Kill in the spot. It was a two horse race between who I was going to take at one. And I kept finding myself saying that it was kind of an armpit test, but it was also just like a, who am I going to be mad that I left on the board? And I kept finding myself saying, I will be so upset if I have Justin Jefferson and then Tyra Kill is just sitting right there.

Because I know Ruiz, you would have sprinted that pick in. You know, it had to be one too. Right, right. No, I was about to say, I was about to add, like, that's the only debate for me was Tyra Kill over Justin Jefferson. To me, that's the tier. That's the elite tier of wide receivers in the NFL right now. There's only two guys in it right now.

Like C.D. Lamb, for example, is like a great receiver. You look at his stats. He's top of the league in almost every split you can look up. But he just doesn't impact the game. Like, these two impact the game. And I think they're alone in their own group. Absolutely incorrect, because with the third pick, your boy's taking C.D. Lamb.

Okay, so let me give you the case for C.D. Lamb, number three, this is Snake. So we had Tyreek Hill first. Ruiz takes Justin Jefferson second there. I'm taking Lamb third. I mean, you look at him last year in what a top eight, top 10 passing offense where the number two option there was Jake Ferguson. Nice player, but nothing like some of these other, you know, wide receiving. Of course you have in the NFL. And he's second in receiving yards last season and over the last two seasons. Second and explosive plays over the last three seasons. Top five yards per outrun. Again, he's shown he can be a number one option for a very good passing offense.

By the way, I didn't realize this until this exercise. Durability, very underrated with C.D. Lamb. He has missed just one game in four NFL seasons, and he's 25 years old. Like, I'm getting a guy in his prime, the best version of this wide receiver. So I've got C.D. Lamb with the number three overall pick. I guess I should make my other pick before you guys tell me if it's a reach or, you you know, make fun of me about who I didn't take. So I've got him three.

And then maybe this is a Homer pick, but I'm going with A.J. Brown, uh, fourth in this exercise. You know, AJ Brown, since he joined the Eagles, obviously now with the ringers Philly special, I'm watching him on film every week and just,

uh, he is way more, he can hurt you in many more ways than I thought previously when he was with the Titans. With the Titans, I'm like, I love this guy, but he's like slant,

yak, just running over people. He's awesome. With the Eagles, I mean, he will be double teamed to jailing hurts will make the wrong read and be like, I'm just checking it up to AJ Brown. And guess what? He'll come down with it many times. Third in receiving yards over the last three seasons, has the

explosive plays, has the efficiency yards per route run. And so I think he can hurt opposing defenses in a variety of ways. And how is this man still 27 years? Like there's always a guy like this in the league where you have to double check the pro football reference page. Like, wait, what? He's only entering his age 27 season. He's been in our lives. It feels like for so long. So I'm feeling great. You know, it's like sometimes you do the fantasy draft and, you know, you're in the, had the last pick and you're feeling great. I feel great.

C.D. Lamb and A.J. Brown, that's going to look good on this Ringer graphic with my first two picks in this draft. All right. Now you can make fun of me. Why would we make fun of you? That's one of the exercise. I don't know. Those are two chalk picks.

No, like, I'm not going to hate on Cidy Lamb. I think he puts up the production that the other two guys that we talked about, Tyreek Hill and Justin Jefferson do. I don't think he does it in the same manner. but like his production is you can't question it. I like brought up the top 10 for every split you can imagine like wide, slot, deep, short. He's top five and everything. No matter where you put him.

He's top five. And he has like, he has like 500 yards no matter where you align him on the field. And that is just so valuable. It's the same situation as Justin Jefferson where you can literally put him everywhere and the defense doesn't know what to expect or what route he's going to run from that alignment. and there's just like usually nothing you can do about it. But I will say this, if he got double teamed a little more often, I don't think he would have as much success as Justin Jefferson does at beating those double teams.

And I don't think it happens. Yeah, I've got a tier down from Jefferson, no doubt about it. Yeah. So that would be my only thing is like with CD Lamb, clear wide receiver three for me. But I don't think he's even close to that top tier yet. And I don't know if it's possible because it's so like based on physicality and athleticism. That's one thing you can't really improve, especially in comparison to Tyree Kill and Justin. Jefferson. I had AJ Brown third on my list. I really like AJ Brown. I really like what he did. He's

been able to do in Philadelphia, but CD Lamb was still top five for me. I think the reason I really like what CD Lamb has done and how I know he hasn't been as double teamed as even a Justin Jefferson is or even at DeMonte Adams is or Tyreek Hill is. I still think that the ultimate test for a receiver is when you turn the targets on, can you still hit? Can you still go? Can you still be the guy? And when you look at last what, six, seven games, minimum 10 targets a game. And he is continually, continually catching a high percentage of those targets, which involves contested catch rate, involves leaving ability, involves catching off target passes, but then also producing yards and producing touchdowns.

And I think when Jerry Jones had that quote about like, you know, we're not going to involve, he is the number one guy or whatever. And then they're like, wait, we're just going to throw him the ball as much as we possibly, like physically can. And that's what ultimately unlock the offense. I think that just shows the kind of talent that he is. is. I also think that other offenses would have gotten to this version of CD Lamb earlier. And I'm not saying he hasn't improved over the course of his NFL career, but like, turn the

targets on for this guy and he's going to produce. Maybe not at the same rate as Tyreek or Devante in his prime or Justin Jefferson, but this dude is a dude. He is, he is, he is a number one wide receiver. He's one of the best receivers in the league, not even just because he's young, but I think he's a top five receiver in the league right now, including all of the older guys that we'll probably talked to at some point in this list, Cup, Diggs, Adams, Evans, Allen. Like, he is ahead of those guys now in terms of talent alone. That's pretty interesting when you talk about the version of land that got unlocked last

year because the OC before then was Kellyn Moore, who is now A.J. Brown's OC in Philadelphia. So it's just something that kind of connects the two guys. Sorry, Ruiz. What were you going to say? I was just going to add to the AJ Brown thing. Like, he's the modern day T.O. to me. Like, I didn't, I wasn't really grinding the tape back that I didn't know what I was watching necessarily. Some may say I don't know what I'm watching right now. But the feeling you got

when you saw T.O. and you were rooting against his team, when he got the ball in the open field, is the same feeling you get with A.J. Brown. Like, he's going to run over all of these people. Nobody can tackle him. And I think there are some, there is some overlap there. Because I don't think T.O. was like the most polished route runner. I don't think he had a problem with drops at one point in his career. And I think you can make the same arguments about A.J. Brown. Like, Like you could say like he's not the most polished route runner. He doesn't create the most separation. But like it doesn't matter.

He's just such a force of nature that I would take him. I had him fifth on my list, but I would have considered taking him over the guy I have at number four. There you go. That's a good tease. Can I say this about AJ Brown? One thing on AJ Brown. I think he has plays with the ball in his hands as maybe 90% as unique as Tyree Kill. but in obviously a different way.

And that how he shrugs tacklers off, how he fights through contact, there's that, I can never forget, there's a touchdown against the Ravens where he shrugs off like 10 dudes and makes, it's like no one else is doing that.

And that's where I get some T.O. comparisons as well. I think there's two ways to be a phenom after the catch. One of them is obviously being faster than everybody else and having the quicks

and the dynamism to make people miss. And then the other one's just being untackable. And he's one of the few receivers left that is the size, strength combination to be untackable. I remember when scouting him out of Ole Miss, and there was a conversation about DK Mecca and blah, I remember of any player in college football, the percentage of catches where he gained at least five yards

after the catch was higher than any player in the FBS of the last three years before that. He was someone who, when he catches the ball, he's going to get more. And that, I think, is one of the coolest traits you can have as a receiver that no one really has anymore. I mean, you think about Tyrell Lockett, who's not, I don't think, going to be in this draft,

but like someone who legitimately refuses to make plays after the catch and is still one of the better receivers in the league. Like making plays down the football field is obviously a value. This guy turns 10-yard plays into 15, 15 into 20, and sometimes 20 into 100. I think that AJ Brown somehow gets underrated because of how much receiver talent is in the league. And he's one of the reasons why we think Jalen Hertz has such a great vertical deep ball.

Like he, he's a huge factor in that. He's one of the reasons why teams can't play cover one against them because he is a guy that he counts as two players. if he's getting a depot. He counts as two players. You need two bodies on him to stop him. Yeah. No,

there's, there's, I was thinking recently, what would that offensive collapse have looked like at the end of last year without A.J. Brown like something. He does cover up stuff for really everybody on that team, whether it's coach,

quarterback, whoever. All right. Let's take a break. We'll come back. Listen, the four guys that went were the top four on my list. I know Ruiz said he had Brown five.

This is where this, now it starts getting really interesting. Like I've got a list. where I might just be going off my board and switching guys around and not because it got really hard, I thought, at this point here. So let's take a break. We'll come back. We'll get to Ruiz's second pick.

All right. We're back on the Ringer NFL show. Ruiz, I assume whoever you're going to pick. You had fourth on your big board. Is that correct? Yeah, maybe this is a legacy pick. Maybe I need to go back and watch the film.

But I've taken Devante Adams. I'm not giving up on him. Like whenever I watch, I will admit, I didn't watch a lot of Raiders film this last year. I'm covering teams that I'm covering teams that. actually matter. But whatever I watch him, he was getting open. And he just wasn't getting good service from the, from the quarterback. He was getting open in the same ways that he got open in Green Bay and under similar circumstance. Like, he's still seeing double teams on third down. He's still getting all that attention. He still has the skill set. You give me, you give me

Devante Adams with a league average quarterback and a league average offensive play caller. And I think he's going into the top three in this draft, even still, even at his age. He's still a good player. He still can line up anywhere. He's still win vertical. He can still win over the middle. He could still win with tight windows over the middle on third down, which is the hardest catches to make. So give me Devante Adams. Didn't you tell me on a previous episode that I don't have to worry about being an agist on the show because you are the ultimate ageist and I can just let it be free, even though I am an old person making fun of old. 32 years old, Ruiz. It didn't scare you off. Let me give you a little nugget here before your last five seasons, wide receivers

age 32 or older with a thousand yards, Julian Edelman and Adam Thielen. It's a young man's game. It's a young man's position. You're still feeling good about Devante Adams 32 years old with the fifth. If Julian Edelman did that with the Patriots quarterbacks and Adam Thielen did that with Little Bryce Young, then yes, I am confident that Devante Adams can do even better than those two.

Okay. There you go. Austin, what do you think? I had Adam's seventh on my board. I don't know if that's too low. I think there's some ageism to that. He was easily the highest ranked player over 30, right? There's, you know, DeAndre Hopkins is 32.

Mike Evans is 31. Keenan Allen is 32. Cooper Cup is 31. I had him ahead of all over those other guys because I do think he's still that kind of guy. He's still that talent. But there are other younger receivers that I think maybe aren't even getting open on the same percentage of plays,

but I think because of the added dynamism, because of what they can do specifically down the football, field. And even with the ball in his hands, like, I don't think Adams is the same yak player that he was earlier in his career. And he wasn't even a good yak to start, like not like a phenom, like some of these other guys that we've already talked about. But now, like, you lose that piece of it. He starts to become a different type of player. Still a guy that's getting open, still a guy that's great in contested catch situations, still a guy that you want probably getting 30 to 35 percent of the targets in an offense. Because he's that good. I just don't know if he's

better than the guy I'm going to take next. In season trade to the New York Jets, Devonte. I mean, The guy has had say, like I was, you know, mocking the pick a little bit there. But I do think he has a chance to be an exception, just because how technically sound, how refined he is, how well he gets open. Let's get him on a team that's going to be a little bit more relevant at some point in the middle of this season and let him have a nice sort of last stage of his career. All right, Austin, you are up. You get the snake. You get two picks here in a big spot after going Tyreekill curveball with the first pick. What is this man going to do?

I think I'm going to go a little crazy here. Maybe foolish even. Maybe foolish even. We're making five picks overall, by the way. I don't know if I ever mentioned that. Yeah, five rounds here. Sorry, go ahead. Before I do it, I don't appreciate the slander about DeBonte Adams not having a good end of his career. He's in Las Vegas with Antonio Pierce, the king of vibes.

It's a fun time. Cigars after you win, the six games you win, stop hating. Okay? Not everything in life is about talking conspiracy theories with Aaron Rogers in winning a couple playoff games, not even a super bowl, a couple playoff games, okay? It's maybe more fun to be in Las Vegas,

making a ton of money, hanging out with Antonio Pierce, Aiden O'Connell, et cetera. All right, first one's gonna be easy. I'm taking Jamar Chase. Jamar Chase, he was the fourth ranked player on my board, only 24. This is his age 24 season,

which shouldn't even factor into this exercise because you're only taking him for this year, but I do think he's getting better. He's still getting better as a player in the NFL. I'm excited to see if he and Joe Burrow can both stay healthy so we can see a 50. 1,600, 1,700, 1700-yard season that I think he's actually capable of.

But I think this is an interesting way to say, too, maker break year for him. Is he that guy? Are you that guy? Are you better than A.J. Brown? Are you better than C.D. Lamb? Are you better than Tyree Kill? Are you better than Justin Jefferson?

I get the hype. People are excited. I know you're excited. You can win the vertical route. You've had a lot of success in the NFL, but I want to see it. Let's see it. I want to see a 1,500-yard season, 1,600-yard season. 10 plus TDs.

And I want to see it for 17 games with Joe Burrow Healthy. No more excuses. I know he's young. I know that there's some people who think limited in terms of the routes that he can win on,

but I don't give a shit. It's time to put up. I want to see it because I think he is that talented. I think sometimes, you know, the ringer fantasy football show guys do a good job

of comparing these guys to a handful of things. But some people talk about them as the Ferrari in the garage. Let's drive that bastard. Can we drive it? Let's see it. I don't want it in the garage anymore.

I want this year to be a big gear for Jamar Chase. I want him, I want the end of this season. We're doing this same exercise next year. And people are like, no, top three. Ahead of Cidie Lamb, ahead of A.J. Brown being that guy. And I think I have confidence he can be that player.

A lot has to go right, specifically with Joe Burroughs health, the calf, the wrist, all this stuff. And also, Jamar Chase has to stay healthy too. But I think he is that caliber talent. It's time to put it on tape. He has in his rookie year, you know, we talked a lot about in the offseason after that where he's going to regress. There was a lot of yak numbers that have regress. there's a lot of like specifically like deep, deep target reception percentages that have regressed.

It's time to put up a real season. I want to see him have a CD lamb level season to really cement himself as a top three receiver in this league. Because I think he can be that player. The next player is tough. Can I walk you through my thought process a little? There's part of me, there's part of me right, gut, gun to my head, Brand Nyuk. But I don't know if I want to submit that name yet. I really like Brand Nyuk.

I like Brandiuk a lot. And when you compare him to some of the older guys, Stefan Dix, I have concerns. Cooper Cup. I have age concerns. I don't think I'm there yet. Amon Rae St. Brown and Debo Samuel are other names I'm thinking about. I still, however, think Brandi-I-Uk can do more, can do more than what Amon Rae-Sem-San-Rang can do,

in terms of the versatility of what he can do. In terms of the blades or whatever the hell is in a Swiss Army knife these days, I think he's got a couple more. The more I talk it out, the more I'm just going to, I'm going to go Brandon I, you. Brand-I-Uk, and I might be the highest person on Brandon Ayuk there is to put him this high on this list, but I freaking love Brandon Ayuk. I think he is capable in and outside the slot,

verse press, not verse press. He is catches everything. He is, in my opinion, someone who can really blow up this year as well. I got two receivers that I think can blow up in focal roles. I'm going Brandon Ayuk as you seem to think. I don't think you're as high

on Brandon Ayuk as you seem to think because you're throwing around the, I'm on Ross St. Brown and Brandon Ayuk. Like, I'm not even thinking twice about that. One's a possession slot receiver. The other one's like a... That's good to hear. That's good to hear.

He's not even in my top 15. But no, Brandon Iuke. Oh, I did. Oh, wow. Okay. Wow. You guys got some interesting insight into Ruizis. You guys love nine-yard catches on third and five, huh?

No, Brandon Ayuk is, he's very much belongs in that second tier behind Justin Jefferson and Tyree Kill. But I wanted to talk about Jamar Chase because I kind of agree with your take on it where for me, it's either Jamar Chase is going to be outside of the top five or he's going to be talked about with those top two because he is that type of dynamic talent when he gets the ball. on his hand, like, come on, start making some catches over the middle of the field in the intermediate area, not these little, like, one-step slants that you take for 20 yards. Like, that's the one thing that I think is holding them back from that top tier is being that reliable third-down target.

And I think having T. Higgins on the roster has kind of hurt him because he hasn't gotten those opportunities necessarily, because that is, like, T. Higgins' wheelhouse. So I am interested, interested to see how that role evolves this year, because you have to imagine Cincinnati's going to start we name are kind of like fading T. Higgins out of the, the offense, assuming he does leave next year. I want it to be said to that, you know, I said, put it on tape. I know his rookie season, 1,823 yards, 14 touchdowns. Okay, I get it. He had a lot on that season. The tape was insane. The rookie year was insane. Before Justin Jefferson, it was the best we've seen. And even since then, two 1,200-yard seasons. But he also runs a ton of routes. The efficiency is not there.

He's average under two yards per route run over the last two years. Like he is getting a lot of targets and running a shitload of routes. For me, the fact that he's not even obviously a top three receiver in this exercise shows that he's not lived up to expectations after his rookie season. Everyone would have said after that rookie year, man, two years from now, Jamar Chase is going to be arguably the best receiver in the league. But Justin Jefferson is, I think, solidified himself ahead of Jamar Chase. So has Tyree kill.

And I think AJ Brown, C.D. Lamb, Devante Adams, they all have to be. to be in the conversation. That to me is falling below expectations that he set as an 1,800-yard receiver in his rookie season. That's definitely fair. Yeah, I think Chase is still going to reach that ceiling. It's so interesting when you look at the last three seasons with the Bengals and how much that rookie season, they're just bombing downfield. And like you said, 18 yards per reception, defenses change how they play them. They've had to figure out different ways to play. They've figured that out, but it hasn't necessarily reflected on Jamar Chase's numbers. To your point, the efficiency. I mean, still last three seasons, like you mentioned, there is volume there,

but seventh in receiving yards among wide receivers over the last three seasons. And your age factor can't be ignored. I mean, entering his age 24 season. We're like, I think there will be some point. It could be this season. It could be the season after where we're absolutely doing this exercise. And he's one of the three guys off the board. I believe in his potential and sealing in a big way. And then Ayuk is a is a good one. I had him. Yeah, I struggled a little bit only because of the Shanahan factor, you know, and I still like Brandon Ayuk a lot and I watch him. And yes, this guy's doing, you look at any number you look at and he's entering his age 26 season and he's been a very good receiver. But I always, you know, with the Niners, I always have to think you take this guy

away from Shanahan. I still think it would look really good, but that was my one little. In defense of Jamar Chase in his production, I will say this, the Bengals do run a very unique passing game because of like how Joe Burrow likes to operate where it's just heavy dropback not a lot of under under center play action which is where you get a lot of the chunk plays so I do think Jamar Chase's production has been affected by that which these other receivers don't really necessarily have to worry about it sounds like you need to get on a soapbox here and talk through the limitations of the offense that are there because of Joe Burrow and it sounds like you have more to say there if if we can maybe plan that for another pod I'd love to hear more

all that. The Bangalorian will be up here. All right, Ruiz is up with his third pick of the draft. Ruiz, who do you got? Oh, man. My receiving court is going to be old as hell, man. I'm taking Stefan Diggs. I got to take Stefan Diggs here. Oh, my God. This guy loves the old. Listen, let me ask you this. Over 30, you got a place with Ruiz. It's not a pick I want to make. Honestly, I would love to trade down from the slot. So if you guys are open to trading up, I'm all years. If I can get a second round pit or a fifth round pick thrown in there, I still think Diggs is very good at football. I think we've kind of underrated him because of how the second half of the season went. And unless like he fell off a cliff in October or November and he just

became washed overnight, I still think that player is in there. I think the offense change. They fire the offensive coordinator. They bring it Joe Brady. We assume that Sean McDermott wanted them to run the ball more. And I think that's part of the reason why Stefan Diggs number went down. But if you watch the film, he's still getting open. He's still making plays when the ball is thrown him. He's still making plays after the catch. He's making plays that I don't see receivers that I have under him on my list make routinely. And I still think he has that in him. And when we did the digs trade podcast, I mentioned a couple numbers from next gen stats. And he's still running over 20 miles per hour. There's no questions about his speed at this point in his

career. Austin, what do you think? You had a look when you heard. I think you're more leaning towards I'm, I'll be, I'm just, I'm not touching the wide receivers 30 or older. I'll miss on some of them, but I'd rather do that. And I have some wild picks that I'm going to get roasted for here coming up in a moment. But that's, I bumped all the older guys, 30 and older down the list. Yeah, I bumped them down the list too. I had stuff on digs, I think at 10. I just deleted them off my list.

So I don't remember where I had them. Yeah, no, I had them at 10. I had them at 10 on this ranking. I did not, I was not high on them for a handful of reasons. Age is a factor. I think his production. falling off over the second half of last season. I wrote a piece for the ringer all about it.

And like, I think that is maybe overstating the drop-off that he's had talent-wise. However, it's still there, right? I still think he, as he gets older, is going to have to adjust his game and win different ways. The biggest reason I dropped him down is how each relationship has ended over the last, you know, over the course of his career. every locker room he gets into when he leaves, they hate his ass. And he's going into Houston here where he's told

them, kill the final years of my deal, make me a free agent after this season. I do not want to play here after this year. I want to be on the open market. I don't know how healthy that's going to be in this locker room. When you have a young offensive play caller in Bobby Sloick, who's got to have to call plays,

when Diggs kind of comes up to him and says, dude, I need the ball more. CJ Stroud, a second year quarterback, who some believe could be a top five quarterback at the end of this season, hey man, I need the ball more. Nico Collins entering a contract here needs more. Carriots, Stefan Dick says, hey, buddy, I'm the top guy. Tank Dell, that concerns me. And I don't, I think we're going to hear those stories all season long. That I think, there's a difference at the top between guys who

get the ball because your offense doesn't work without it versus guys who demand the ball to the point where they're pushed out of locker rooms or pushing themselves out of locker rooms because they're maybe not getting enough. That to me is the difference between an elite diva and a diva that ultimately can drag down an offense. And I worry that Diggs, at least over the last half of the bill season and obviously how his relationship ended in Minnesota started to drag down some of the offense. I hope it doesn't happen in Houston. I still think he's a phenom talent, but in the situation that he's in, can you remember a receiver going into a season in his first year with the team telling them, I have to be the number one guy and I'm not staying

beyond a year? I don't even know how that's going to work in the locker room. Like he's a he's a rental, but has to be the go-to guy. I don't know what that does for dynamics for Stroud, Sloick, Nico, et cetera. It's going to be an interesting year. For me, I don't want him on a one-year flyer. And for this exercise, I only get him for one season. I'll try somebody else. I'll see what I can get out of Jamar Chase and some of these younger guys.

That sounds like the fan of a team who traded Randy Moss in his prime for similar reasons. Hey, hey, hey, that was a different era. That was a different era. Randy Moss didn't want to play for the team either. So that's a factor, okay? It worked out for the 49ers with T.O. too. I think this is overblown. It was two teams.

And the issues in Minnesota weren't the same as the issues in Buffalo. And the other thing is, Cole Beasley was getting fourth down targets in the playoffs last year. I'd be pissed too if I was Stefan Diggs. Yeah, he's still with why he still had an incredible four-year run. Like you look at what they, I mean, they've won one as many games as any team in the NFL.

The bills, and listen, sometimes things don't end well. Sometimes things end badly. That's life. It's okay. They'll come back 10 years later. and everyone will be fine.

But Diggs had a terrific run with the bills. I think I actually like him on a one-year contract because it's like, you know, that's good team CTC work by Diggs where it's just like, no, I don't like the rest of my, that's a team-friendly contract. Let's just do it for one year and then I'll see what happens after this. That's good work by him. I don't know what the Texans, like I don't know that I would want to do that,

but that's good work by him. So I've liked Diggs a lot over the course of his career. Just, again, getting a little bit older. Makes me worry, but it's only one season. So can he play well? I actually think he's going to have a good year this season. But I'm up. And, you know, why take the old Stefan Diggs when you can just shake it up and take the new

Stefan Diggs, a guy that I am sure I am higher on than my co-host here and maybe higher on than most people talking about this? And I'm taking Garrett Wilson with this day. Garrett Wilson is going to have a monster. Look at what this man. And you want to talk about battling through adversity. This man is 18th in receiving yards the past two seasons, despite catching passes from Zach Wilson, Joe Flackle,

Mike White, Trevor Simeon, Tim Boyle, you know who I forgot about? Chris Streepler. Am I even pronouncing his name right? I don't know. I just remember that random, what was it, a Thursday night game, whatever. Natty Hackett as his OC last year. And he has just been cursed with a horrible situation entering the NFL, and he has still produced, I think, at a higher level than most wide receivers would

under those circumstances. Now he gets Aaron Rogers as his quarterback. He's entering his age 24 season. I just looked at this. Really, the exercise was I looked at Garrett Wilson and I looked at other wide receivers who I could take here. And I said, swap him. Put Garrett Wilson in that spot. Is he performing as well as wide receiver X in that other situation?

And how's the other guy doing in the Jets offense? And that just made me, I was like, yes, he absolutely would. He might outperform even some of these guys. So I've got Garrett Wilson here with my third selection. That's a good pick. That's a good pick. I was hoping that he would still be around when the snake draft came around. And I could add some youth to my receiving court.

Now I'm going to have to draft another old guy. Thanks a lot. No, Garrett Wilson was high on my list for the next pick as well. I think he is someone that's gotten kind of screwed by the Jets decisions and just kind of the bad luck at the quarterback position. I think part of the reason you're rooting for. for both Aaron Rogers Achilles to figure it out is to see Garrett Wilson as full capacity,

see what Garrett Wilson can be when he has a, at least above average to above average quarterback play for a full season because we have not seen that yet. I need people to go back and watch the one preseason game Aaron Rogers played last year against the Giants and see the connection those two had in just two drives.

It was like Devante Adams was out there. Like there was, I think he scored a touchdown and Aaron Rogers changed the route before like a little hand signal right before the play. That was the first game they ever worked together. So I think the potential, if Aaron Rogers stays healthy, Garrett Wilson could put up, I would say, like, 16, 700 yards. Do you guys remember the energy on hard knocks when Aaron Rogers was healthy?

And like how excited Garrett Wilson was for life? I remember Robert Sala, there was a part of that hard knocks where he's like, you know why we're going to win? It's because we have this guy. And like, Garrett Wilson's just grinning ear to ear. everyone's just so excited and like if we can get that without the conspiracy theories or whatever else comes with Aaron Rogers, I'm all in. I think that it would be great to see Garrett Wilson actually be able to unlock at full capacity because he could be a lot higher on this list if we do

this exercise again next year if we actually get to see it on tape. Yeah, I think in my bold predictions column for the ringer last year, I picked Garrett Wilson to lead the league in receiving yards and I was thinking about way, I'll probably do that column again this year. I'm just going to run it back probably. Just copy and paste that bad boy and put it in there because I do think he's that good. All right, my next one, Ruiz, has already knows he's going to make fun of me because he already mentioned it. And I'm taking Amman Rae St. Brown at this spot.

So Ruiz, before I get into why I'm taking him, go ahead, give me the case why this is a terrible pick. You alluded to it earlier. I already, yeah, already already did. Like Mike Evans is on the board here. You can have an ex-receiver that you put on the outside and nobody can guard him. You wanted to talk about Garrett Wilson's production. He had Baker Mayfield last year and still continued that streak of 1,000-yard seasons.

My thing, I'm on-Raw. So you're saying he didn't get to play with a great quarterback like Jared Gough? Is that the argument here? That's exactly what I'm saying. A great play-action quarterback versus a mediocre play-action quarterback. But no, like, he's the best slot receiver in the game. On third and five, which is usually what third down is, it's usually not third-and-eight-plus. He is one of the most valuable players in the league.

he's the reason why that offense stays on the field. So he's a very good player, but he's a slot receiver. He's a possession receiver. And for me, that puts a ceiling on his impact on the game. Okay. So I had him kind of in that box as well. I understand the argument for sure. I just, the production is really off the charts.

And it's not like, yes, Ben Johnson is a good offensive coordinator, but it's not like he's playing with Patrick Mahomes. It's not like he's got somebody on the other side who's dictating coverage. and he has been the volume receiver for a top five offense the last two seasons. And you look at it last 50, over 1,500 yards last season. Only four wide receivers have had more yards than Amman Rae St. Brown over the last two seasons. The efficiency, 16 yards per outrun. And then he makes more explosive plays than I thought.

I was with you, Ruiz, that 24 catches of 20 plus yards last year. That was eighth in the entire NFL. And so I think he does more maybe than we give him, Credit for his 75 catches went for a first down that was behind only Tyree Kill. And C.D. Lamb, he converts on third down. He converts on fourth down. He was second in yards after the catch last season. And he's going to be 25 years old. So I would agree that it is a nice match of player with scheme, with play caller, with what they want to do. I do agree with that. But then I looked at and I said at this point in the draft, for a guy to be that productive at this age

is rare and so I went ahead and took him Austin. What do you think? You said you were debating between him and someone else with your last fix. I assume you are pro. Can I get one stat in there before Austin answers? Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. His A dot was 6.9. Come on now.

Okay. 6.9. Yards out and he still produced 24 catches at 20 plus yards. So he has a different skill set. It doesn't mean he has a bad skill set. He still, if you look at it last two seasons, he's converted a third or fourth down, 49 times. I mean, that's third in the entire NFL. So he doesn't have, yes, the skill set of making

plays downfield with the ball in the air, but he's still producing in a lot of different ways. The one stat I'll give you is only 57 receivers in the NFL last year, so roughly two per team, ran 250 or more routes at outside receiver last year. Amman Ross St. Brown on that list, because he did run more than 250 routes at outside receiver, ranked 3rd. third in the league in yards per route run at outside receiver. Everyone calling him slot receiver. He's not playing outside receiver. He's in a condensed offense.

That's not an outside receiver. He's playing three yards away from the offensive line. You were saying he's only a slot receiver only, but then when he gets condensed on the splits that you're saying just because he's winning from that area, he's not good? No, I'm saying, first of all, I'm saying he's very good. He's the best slot receiver in the league. He's the best possession receiver in the league.

Do not put those words in my mouth. He's a very good player. those are not the same as like splitting out AJ Brown and asking him to play X receiver. It's just not. You're saying like a three by one where you isolate one guy. Those are misleading numbers. Those are misleading numbers. There you go.

All right. All right. Well, I like him on Ross St. Brown. I think him on Ross St. Brown's good. I think he can win. Maybe he's not a true X, but I think he's still better than a lot of the other receivers we have remaining. What I find interesting is taking him on Rosset Brown over what I think a lot of

of people feel is or is or was recently the best slot receiver in the NFL, Cooper Cup, who coming off injuries, 31 years old, taking Ammon Raus St. Brown over Cooper Cup is kind of a decision. Definitely saying, like, I think it was two years ago, Stephen, that you, Solac and Kevin Clark on this feed were talking about the best receivers in the league, and I think all of you had Cooper Cup in the top three, top, maybe top or top two, to see where he's fallen over injuries and age. I think is exactly why. we've avoided old on this exercise. Like two years ago,

Cooper Cup, triple crown winner, you could argue was the best receiver in the league. I think some people would. Some people would at least say he was like top two or top three. Now it's like, it's gonna fall outside the top 10

on this exercise because he's old. Essentially that's it. Right? He's got some injuries and blah, blah, blah. But like it's essentially because he's old. And it's crazy. Like, I think it does go to show like how quickly, how quickly these peaks are

and why paying for receivers and going back to the top of this conversation with Justin, like getting this contract through and making him, you know, his next available free agency right around that, you know, 29, age 30 season does make sense

because this is their best. Their best is between the ages of like 23, 24, and 30. After that, injuries start to come up more. You lose a step. You have to change your game. Can you survive that like second sprint, that second wind? It's few receivers that can.

So it's interesting. Adam Thielen, I think is one of those guys. I don't think he's going to listen to. I would say like Cooper Cup is like the point of comparison for what Amman Ross St. Brown could do production wise. Like the ceiling he has. And like just watching those two play a similar role, not like like for like, obviously, because, but it's just two different things.

Like Cooper Cup was a force of nature with a ball in his hand. He ran like a fullback in the open field. We just don't get that extra, those extra layers to St. Brown's game that I think we see from slot receivers who've kind of exceeded that role. I would say I would compare him more favorably to like Julian Edelman. I think he's a better version of Julian Edelman. I mean, Cup, 2021. I mean, that's one of the most productive seasons we've ever seen for an NFL wide receiver.

So yes, I'm not saying that to Alman Rah, St. Brown is. But yeah, he's played 21 games the last two seasons. And it sucks because Cooper Cup is fun. I love watching Cooper Cup. I hope he has a rebound season and plays well. But that was just tough for me when you're entering your age 31 season and you haven't played a lot of games the last two seasons. That's tough.

All right. We're going to take one more quick break. We come back and finish out the draft. got one more pick left. These two guys have two picks left. And then we'll see who's got the best wide receiver lineup. All right. We're back on the ringer NFL show. Ruiz, you got two more picks left. Are you going with another old? Can you just not shake the old? Or do you have a young buck who you're going to surprise us with? Who do you got? I'm making one of you guys take an old person. One of you guys is taking Mike Evans. Mike Evans, justice for Mike Evans. He should have gone much higher in

this draft. I'm on Ross St. Brad over Mike Evans. Come on. I don't take old. Come on now. I'm taking Kuka Nakua. I'm taking him. I'm going with you. Second year, and you watch the tape, it all checks out.

You look at the production. You look at the splits. He's performing in any role the Rams put him in. They gave him a lot of targets, obviously with Cooper Cup out. They put a lot on his plate. And he responded with maybe the best

rookie season we've ever seen out of a receiver. And I think the ceiling is much higher than we give him credit for just because of where he was drafted. He's a tremendous athlete. And we saw that play out on the field.

You kind of look at him and think of him as like a possession receiver just because of how that offense operates, how we saw Cooper Cup operate. But like after the catch, he is a dynamic player. And he's getting a lot of targets that aren't conducive to after the catch running. And he's still doing like his over expectation numbers are at the top of the league. So just a great player, reliable player can play any role. Young, too, could get better over the next couple of years. I think this is an easy pick for me.

Yeah. He was in my, he was on. He was next on my list there as I was debating. I was debating between him and Ammar Rahman-Ross, St. Brown. I went with the guy who had a longer track record there. But, I mean, how do you argue with what he did as a rookie? Like, it's hard to imagine a scenario where you do that as a rookie. And then, you know, the rest of your career is not that great.

I mean, it's so hard to do that as a rookie. You mentioned it. The explosive plays fourth in the NFL, eighth in yards per route run. And he had to be the guy for that offense as Cooper. Cup was injured. I mean, he was getting a lot of volume and showed he could handle it. So, yeah, I think Puka Nakua is going to have a monster season. And who knows what the ceiling is for that guy? I think that he's another player, too, that specifically how he won at the short, maybe not even the short, like the intermediate over the middle level of the field is like, I remember

tweeting, I think maybe two or three weeks in, it's like, is that Anquan Bolton? Is that, is that Anquam Bolden reincarnated who can win all the time catch everything and is physical enough to survive so much contact at and wave the line of scrimmage that it's like, well, I don't care how fast he ran. I don't care about even where you're playing him. The reliability

factor I think is very interesting. It's a lot different than what Amon Raw St. Brown does or what Cooper Cup did in his prime. With him, it's like he is out physically and adds all this flavor of technique and commitment to detail and eating breakfast with Stafford and Cup, I think is paid into that. That was a, that's one of those things too where like you go through the offseason

storylines and you're like performative versus productive. Him, him doing the breakfast probably did help. I think that might have been. Yeah. I forgot about that. You're right. Ancoyoling comp is a good one, man. That cop gave me, it gave me a little shot of dopamine. I got like goosebumps. I said, I've been on the Anquam Bold and Pook and Akua Khan for a while. I think that's really what, what the kind of receiver he could be. And if he, as he continues, I think the other thing is, why I wasn't a Tutsu at well at those brands. Couldn't get an invite, my guy. He's not only to talk shop, but like, it could have used a couple meals.

You know what I mean? I don't think it's a bad idea to sneak in some pancakes into that. So, no, I think Puganaku is awesome. I think it'll be interesting to see, you bring up AD and we're looking at his average of the target, specifically when he's lining up at outside receiver is the fourth lowest of any receiver last season. I still think he's someone that you want winning 19 yards, you know, between like 12 and 19 yards down the football field over the middle, taking those hard targets. That's how you want him to

win. I don't think that positions him ahead of a lot of these other guys, specifically the guys in the top of the tier list, but it's still a guy that like, hey, it's third down. It's time to win. It's time to win, and I have a guy that can do that. Man, that's more valuable than some of these other guys that you have to scheme targets for and do all these. What would you say his ceiling is over his career? Like, do you think there's any chance he gets into that that top two level that we're talking about? It won't necessarily be Tyreek and Justin Jefferson, by the, but does he have that in his game? Is that within the range of outcomes? I don't think so. So the only reason is because I don't think he can be the guy that blows the top off

and is like this like distance player that you kind of need to be one of the top two. I think you have to have the speed element. And specifically just like the win vertically element that these other guys have. Like I think that makes more sense. Yeah, he still, he had explosive. He had 25 explosive plays last year, fourth most, but does it in a different way where, you know, I was joking about the armpit test earlier. It's not that, you know, defensive coordinator is going to be like, we don't care about this.

You're going to have to have a plan for him, but it's different, I would say, than when you're game planning for a Tyree Kill or a Justin Jefferson. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know, over 1,400 yards as a rookie. I'm hesitant to put any kind of ceiling on the guy because that is just such uncommon production for a rookie in the NFL. All right, Austin, you got your final two. Who do you have, who's on the roster so far?

You got Tyree Kill and who were the other two? Remind me, Brandon Ayu. Tyree Kill, Jemar Chase, Brandi Nyuk, which I like. I think that's pretty hot. I hate to say it, but I think that's pretty hot. I'm sprinting the card in here. I don't care. I've heard you guys argue about this guy before, Ruiz.

I'm going Debo. I'm going Debo Samuel. And if he's coming in as my wide receiver four, I mean, absolutely. I'm all in. On the list of top five receivers and he's coming in as my wide receiver four, this is an easy, easy play here. He's only entering his age 28 season. I get that he has had criticism for how he runs route when he's not being targeted.

But holy hell, when he's targeted, this guy, guy's different. He's absolutely different with the ball in his hands. Ruiz is under attack. Yeah. Okay. Ruiz, some type of alarm going off at Ruiz. This is this good content. Ruiz, are you okay? I think they said please disregard. My fire alarm goes off. Yeah, the alarm went off. Does Tebow the trigger? Oh no. He's, stop saying Debo. Stop saying Debo. This is your guy's fault for talking about receivers who have a five A dot. Stop. One was enough. You can't. A dot's not the only number that matters. You came to ADOT, A dot. What are you talking about?

It's not the only number that matters, but it is a number that matters. You picked Pookinacu over Debo Samuel. I don't even think that's fair at all. That's not fair at all. No, I think. All right, so I'm with Ruiz. It's not A dot, Austin. You look at, he's not the same, but we like to think of the 2021 version of Debo Samuel.

I mean, usually he's entering his age 28 season with the way this guy plays. It might as well be as like age 30. season. I mean, every game counts as too for Debo's, which I love in his prime, the violence, the physicality, the way he's taking it to every defender. Love that. But look at the last two years for Debo. See, he had

632 yards in 2022. He had 892 yards in 2023. His last two seasons, he just has not been as nearly as productive. 1500 total yard, 24 yards in the last two seasons combined and has missed six games. Guys don't get healthier

at this stage of their career. So I don't I think you should have run in the car. I think you should have settled to say, all right, this isn't 2021. This is 2024. Let me project a little bit because Debo Samuel might not be the same guy he was in his prime. Mike Evans, man. Just getting just getting snubbed all over the place. Last one, it's not going to be Mike Evans.

You're making me say, I mean, Debo Samuel, I still stand by it. I think the injury stuff is concerning. I think how much he hasn't produced over the last two years compared to 2021 is absolutely concerning. But I still find it when he's on, he's on. When he's on, he's on. And I think I'm going to find a way to motivate him. Maybe that's, you know, maybe that's, maybe that's having Jamar Chase, having Tyree kill, these guys that are going to demand targets over him.

If he does not make plays, maybe this is going to be a motivating room. Last guy, and this one I think I'm an idiot for. I don't think this is right. I don't think I'm smart. I think that I made a mistake, but I can't do it. I'm taking Terry Mack. I love Terry McLaren. I think that he has been so screwed by the Washington.

the first name they had, he's been with them since the terrible name, the football team. And he's been on three, he's been on three teams over there, all horrible, two different versions of ownership. I mean, this is, the quarterback room we haven't even brought up has been horrible. And I still think that if he was almost on any other team in the league, he might be, this might be the least productive team he could have been on in his career. And he still managed thousand yards season after thousand yards season after thousand yard season. He is a unique talent that has been objectively screwed over by the entire Washington franchise

from name to ownership to coaching to quarterbacks. He, in my opinion, is such an underrated receiver that maybe we never get the opportunity to see at his maximum level because the quarterback position remains unsolved because coaching even remains unsolved and ownership remains unsolved. I hope there's a day. You brought up Devante Adams being traded midseason. Man, I would love to see Terry McLaurin on another football team before week eight, week nine. Like, he needs to be on a contender. Because you go back to some of those

matchups he's had with Darius Slay, where he's shadowing Terry McLaurin one-on-one, the whole game. And you see two juggernauts in an all-time fight. You can tell that he has it. He absolutely has it. It's unfortunate that we have not really been able to see McLaurin be like the guy. And I don't even think this might be too early for a lot of people's lists because you're not turning on Washington football team tape. You're not seeing him when Sam Halis throwing the ball Artichael Hineke's throwing the ball. All right. Carson Winst is throwing the ball.

You're not really watching that film. I think McCorn is an underrated receiver. I'm taking him over Keenan Allen, who's 32. Cooper Cup, who's 31. DeAndre Hopkins and Mike Evans, who are both 31, 32. I like him a lot. I think he's got a couple more years of his prime left.

It sucks that we're going to see it with more bad quarterback play. Maybe Jaden Daniels pans out, but I don't think it's going to be right away. But McCloren, I think, is going to go down. One of the more underrated receivers of this, like, 10-year stretch. He's the one that I felt the worst about leaving off my list entirely, like my big board. I did 15, top 15, and he was the first one that I listed after that. I agree. You check out his numbers. You watch his film. He is producing in the same way that all

the top five guys that we had on our list are. It's just a matter of service. And it's just hard to kind of fill in those gaps for him. It's not fair to him. He should probably be in the top 10. I don't even think, like, if you're just looking at individual talent, I think this is a smart pick for you. I'm with you, though. I just want to see him play with a good quarterback. It's a little like the D'Andre Hopkins in Houston early on thing for me. Like he's produced despite who's been his quarterback. Yeah, it's kind of wild. You look at it. And yes, he's been a productive player. He's been a good player. I like him. He's like, all right, you know, Jaden Daniels, young wide receiver he can grow with. Terry McLaren's entering his age 29 season here in 2024, which I didn't realize until I did this exercise. Like say

Jaden Daniels goes through the growing pains, and then year two, McLaren's going to be 30, not to keep, I know listeners are probably shut up, Shiel, you've said it 17 times, but that's wild. I couldn't believe it, that like this is the last year of Terry McClaren's 20s. What a, what a waste that franchise. And he still put up numbers, but has never really been able to have those moments. So maybe they will come here with Jaden Daniels. All right, Ruiz, what do you got? I'm going to take Mike Evans.

Someone's got to take them. You guys force my hand. I'm going to take Mike Evans. I was going to take Nico Collins, but I think Mike Evans is the fully realized form of what Nico Collins can eventually become. He's the guy. He's the ex-receiver, the prototypical one. He's everything we thought he could be coming out of college.

Like we were like, is that going to translate to the next level? And he's like really the only big, quote unquote, slow, relatively speaking, compared to the top receiver's prospect that kind of worked out in the way you expected. And he's just a reliable source of production as ever. by this record streak he has going, I don't even know what it's up to now, 10 years in a row with at least 1,000 yards, speaks to his durability, speaks to his reliability, and he is one of those receivers, even though he doesn't do as much as a CD land does, as Justin Jefferson does, he is the type of receiver that when he's lined up outside,

you have to respect that. And if you don't, he is scoring six points. Yeah, 10 straights. He came into the league. It's a wild street. It's almost like the Tomlin streak. honestly came into the league 2014 and has had over a thousand yards every single season, including last year, which was one of the best seasons of his career with Baker Mayfield, 12155 yards, 13 touchdowns, averaged almost 16 yards per reception. Just the body of work, like he's one of those guys that I feel like people will look at 20 years from now and be like, oh my God, you know, so you'll just tell a random friend, come look at Mike Evans, like, pro football reference page.

this is crazy the type of production this guy has put on so i like it really sometimes you lean into the brand you know you you said i'm going to take the old guys when this gets tweeted out no one's going to remember that they're old they're just going to be like these guys are awesome and everyone's going to love my team so you close it out with mike evans and you know what i'm going to lead into the bit too and just just go with the other homer pick and i was debating here between this guy i think nico collins could be a considerate there's some other guys we can do who just missed at the end. But I'm going to go with Devante Smith for my last one.

Last two years, 12th in the NFL in receiving yards, does all the little stuff really well. He's like the wide receivers, wide receiver with the footwork, with the instincts, with the route running. Very durable. Remember his weight coming into the NFL?

It was like, I don't know, this guy you're really betting on an outlier. He's missed just one game over the past three seasons. And so he's somebody I look at kind of differently than some others who have a great wide receiver with him. I actually think Devante Smith, if you put him as a one on a pass heavy offense, he would be putting up monster numbers.

Like I don't think it's the result of playing with AJ Brown. And we saw that really in his rookie season. He had over 900 receiving yards. And they had nobody on the other side in a very, very limited passing game. So I think Devante Smith is awesome. I think if he add more volume, his numbers would look even better. He's only going to be 26 years old. So I'm going to close out the draft with Devante Smith.

I'm looking at some of these names that we did not even get to. Here's who I had. And I wonder which of these guys, if you guys want to talk about them really quick. Here are the names that I had written down that I did not get to. Nico Collins was one that Ruiz mentioned. DJ, if you look at DJ Morris numbers,

there is a strong, strong, strong case that this is ridiculous that he's not in our top 15. Jalen Waddle similarly. Now that you can do the Tyree Kill thing. but he's somebody else who has the body of work. Those were three of the main guys, and I had a couple others, but those were probably the three main guys who I'm like, man, this might be stupid not having them in here. Even like Amari Cooper, Chris Olive, we didn't mention.

There's just so many. DeAndre Hopkins, who was still productive despite playing in that Tennessee offense, so many names. And then we get Marvin Harrison Jr. O'Donze, neighbors coming into the league. It's insane how good the receiving. Like, you could put together the best receiving court in the NFL with those names I just named.

right now. D.K. Matt Caff, another guy who's been productive that we didn't, we didn't mention here. Is it bad that I considered Marvin Harrison Jr. in my top 15? Is it bad? Is it bad? Just for a second. Just for a second, I considered it. But then ended up pulling back and then all these other names. But I think, did we really leave Cooper Cup off the list? Like, Cooper Cup is not in. He hasn't played. He's played 21 games the last two seasons. I can't. I can't underline this enough. This same office season, so two years ago, He was the best receiver in the league. Yeah.

And now he's not even top 15 in this exercise. People are considering Nico Collins, Jalen Waddle, D.K. Meckaff, Michael Pittman, Amari Cooper, DJ Moore, over Cooper Cup. I think that just goes to show never turn 30. Never turn 30. Don't do it. Don't do it. If you can avoid it, don't do it.

Because once you do, everything starts to hurt and nothing is the same. And that's why, Ruiz, when this graphic gets tweeted out, I'm going to ask the graphic designer to make sure they put age on there. I might ask them to make sure they put birthdays on there because you are drafting a bunch of guys that I think by this time next year, they're not even going to be in consideration. They're not even going to be on this list.

They're going to be like, oh, wait, no, they suck. They've missed half the season because of a hamstring or a toe or an ankle. And you're going to be like, Dan, I wish I picked some of these young guys that can still recover from injuries without an ice bath over day. So I'm worried for you, man.

I'm worried. Getting old sucks. That's the list of every list. Every list in the NFL right now is just getting old sucks. All right. So I will say this about Cooper Cup. Yeah. I will say this about Cooper Cup.

Not only has he has he not played a ton of football over the last couple years, a lot of drops in key situations when he played last year. Oh, here we go. A lot of poorly timed bad plays for Cooper Cup that, like the Rams may have won that playoff game if Cooper Cup makes a catch on Fortnite. I'm basing mine mostly unavailable. All right, let's give the listeners our, our five before we call this a wrap. Austin, go ahead.

You had the first pick. give us the five receivers you ended up with. Again, this is only for 20, 24. Who do you got? Tyree Kill, Jamar Chase, Brand Ayuk, Terry McLaren, Debo Samuel. I like that list.

I really like that room. If I was worried about one, it might have been the guy that I said last, even though I picked him fourth. And that's Debo Samuel because of the injuries, because of when he's on, he's on. But when he's off, he's off. That worries me.

You tell me, I don't know, I think the listeners are going to agree. That's a pretty damn good list. Tyreek, even just looking at the top three, Tyreek, Jamar Chase, Brand Ayuk. I'd put that against anybody. I'm excited to hear yours, though. All right, Ruiz. Who do you got? I got Justin Jefferson, Devante Adams, Stefan Diggs, Pooka Naku, and Mike Evans.

Mike Evans is my fifth receiver. Come on now. Okay. The problem is, I don't know. I don't know if I can get on board. That's last for me. That's last. Devante Adams, Stefan Diggs, can.

come off the bench for all I care. I put out, I trot out Justin Jefferson, Mike Evans and Pooka Naku on third down. What are you doing? All right. I've got C.D. Lamb, A.J. Brown, Gareth Wilson, Amon Raus St. Brown, and Devante Smith. Please note that I do not have a wide receiver over 27. All these guys are in the primes of their career. They're not going to break down. They can go out. They can put. They can do whatever. They're going to be okay. The next day, you can bounce back quicker. They're going to be feeling fine. So there you go. I like my squad. All right. Let us know if you were a

listener who won. Who lost? What was the biggest reach? What was the biggest steal? We want to hear from you with all that stuff. And then just to close it out here, guys, Larry Allen, we got some news here right before the pod. Larry Allen passed away. Cowboys Hall of Famer died suddenly.

This is per ESPN and per the Cowboys while on vacation with his family in Mexico Sunday. Just 52 years. years old, really one of the great offensive linemen, one of the great athletes, the combination of strength and athleticism of my lifetime. I'm a kid watching John. I just remember as soon as I heard Larry Allen, my mind went to John Madden and just watching Eagles Cowboys games where John Madden is outlining what Larry Allen is doing seven time first team all pro, 11 time pro bowler, played four

different positions on the offensive line. Again, just known as one of the strongest guys ever to play in the NFL. I saw clip circulating where John. Randall's like this dude bench 692 pounds. I never forgot that as I was going up against him. There's a great clip also on YouTube of John Madden just outlining a Larry Allen drive against the Indianapolis Coles where he's just moving guys and pancaking guys. There's a lot of fun stuff out there. Justin Tuck saying that Larry Allen would just do this sound, this whistle sound. The train sound. The train's coming. Yeah. We're running right at you and there's nothing you can do about it. There's the clip of the pick six again, or it wasn't a pick six against the Saints,

where this man is chasing down and off ball lineback of the speed at which he's moving is incredible. So obviously way too young, very sad, 52 years old. Larry Allen just wanted to mention that before we sign off here. You can make the argument that he was the best player on that Cowboys team, that Cowboys Dynasty, not the most important player, but the best player. And that offensive line was maybe the best offensive line in the history of the game. Yeah, no, when you, yeah, this isn't like one of, this is like best of the best type player. I think it was too young in my football watching career to have a relationship with Larry Allen, but seeing how people have reacted and also seeing all of the different highlights of his career,

both, you know, on in the field, off the field, what he said to people, I do think is, makes you jealous of the relationship I could have had because he does look like the exact kind of football player that got me interested in the NFL in terms of the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, train whistling and the hustle, like the big monster hustle on the pick six. I think it's a, the John Madden Drive, I think is a must watch YouTube video after this. I think it's very, very cool to see how people have reacted and to see the various highlights of his career. I think is super awesome. It's obviously super sad that he passed so suddenly and so early. No doubt about it. Check that out for sure. There's a lot of stuff circulating right now, remembering Larry Allen.

All right. Thank you to my friends, Austin, Gail, and Stephen Ruiz. That was a fun draft we did with the wide receivers. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely for producing additional production supervision by Connor and Evans in Arjuna, Ram Gapal. I'm Sheila Kapari. We'll talk to you next time on The Ringer and a show.