The Ringer NFL Show - Kliff Kingsbury on Recruiting Mahomes, Rams-Cardinals Face-offs, Brady in the Bahamas, and the Famous Draft House Photo | Flying Coach With Sean McVay and Peter Schrager

Episode Date: June 2, 2021

Sean and Peter are joined by Arizona Cardinals head coach Kliff Kingsbury to talk about getting pranked by Sean at dinner, going from losing his job at Texas Tech to becoming the head coach of the Cardinals, and their philosophies on coaching young players. Later they tell stories about facing each other in the NFL, attending a wedding with Tom Brady in the Bahamas, and playing for Bill Belichick (1:56). We finish the show with some listener emails and voicemails (48:08). Follow 'Flying Coach' here on Spotify! Email Sean McVay and Peter Schrager your questions at [e-mail]. Or leave us a voicemail and it may be featured in our next episode! [phone]‬ Hosts: Sean McVay and Peter Schrager Guest: Kliff Kingsbury Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, I'm Shay Serrano. And I'm Jinks. We're hosting a new podcast called No Skips. In it, we discuss the most iconic and unskippable albums in hip-hop history. New episodes drop on Thursdays, only on Spotify. Episode 3, Flying Coach, Sean McVeigh, we are here. I'm Peter Schrager. Sean, what's going on, dude?

Not much. It's good to be back here with you again. It's definitely a fun first couple episodes, and this third one is definitely going to be a blast. good friend of both of ours and Cliff Kingsbury coming on. I think what the, what everyone's going to get a feel for is that this guy's got a lot of sides other than just a pretty face. Great guy, dynamic, funny, a lot of great sides that I think we'll get a chance to feel today. It's funny. I was talking to my wife Erica and she was like, well, it's the last time you've seen Sean. And it goes all the way back to the combine of 2020. The last time you and I have hung

out in person. And I remember the night, we are at a table. And it was you, me and Cliff into the wee hours of the night just nothing crazy, just cutting it up. And I'm like, it's pretty cool that the three of us are going to get back on this thing and we're going to do the podcast. And I think to your point, the listeners are going to love getting to know Cliff Kingsbury in a way they haven't before. You only get this kind of stuff on Flying Coach. And the amount of feedback we got on LaFlor and Sala, I think we're going to get similar reaction from Cliff, who you'll learn is a heck of a guy. Should we just get right to the episode? Let's get it going. Let's get to our guests for episode three, a friend of both of ours. And

a divisional rival of yours, Sean. Ladies and gentlemen, the head coach of the Arizona Cardinals, Mr. Cliff, Kingsbury. Cliff, how are we doing? We're doing good. We're doing good, Shraig. Can we just start off? I know all the listeners are probably dying to get this answered.

99% of us have not starred on a reality TV show. So I'm wondering when they tell you, take your shirt off, dive in the pool, drink rosé, shoot some hoops. Like, what is going through your mind? Do you know that this is going to be a tough look or you just go for it? You know, you came out shots fired. What the hell? I love it.

I'm giving the people what they want. It's a great question, though. I figured since I wasn't as swaggy as you doing the stanky leg dance off at Texas Tech that I had to be ready to go. And it was a regrettable moment. But, you know, you get lonely during quarantine. You know, there's not a lot of things to do. I'm training my dog like Airbud.

I took my shirt off with Veronica. As soon as I saw it, I thought to myself, what a tool, though. You know, it was a regrettable moment to say the least. The best part is, is you're the most ball guy I've ever met in my life, and yet they put you drinking rosé and swimming with your shirt off. I mean, all you want to do is talk football and coach football and draw plays.

And I'm like, this is not this guy. Hey, first of all, you know what? I got more versatility. and you know that better than anybody. All right. I do. I'm saying to start the show off. It's like we're starting to say off.

Show comes off. We're diving in the pool. I'm like, here we go. Here we go. Well, I figured when I saw that, that had to be payback for how bad I got you when you were just so sure that we go to dinner. So, you know what?

Let's go ahead and start us off. You know, we're getting sped up. So we end up going out to dinner. You know, I shared a story about. Catch LA. It's funny, they treated me a lot better when I was with Cliff Kingsbury and Mahomes. So I think that was, they sat us right away. They weren't waiting to seat us. No, they tell I was a busboy. Hey, we'll pretend it was about us. We both know us about Pat. But, uh, so here he is, this is a buttoned up guy, man. You know, he's not just well dressed and swaggy. He had done his

due diligence. So he, we got to know each other through a mutual friend, Chaz Gessner. So he's in town in L.A., you know, visiting, and he's got it all lined up. You know, Pat was in town, Patrick Mahomes, and he obviously has a great relationship with him. And he had done his due diligence of saying, okay, I know there's some tampering rules in the NFL. He's been doing his thing in college, played in the league, but he's never dealt with some of these rules in the NFL. And so was that your assistant that was with us, Cliff, or you had, there was a nice girl that had assured you that there was nothing to worry about. Who was that?

Yeah, just a friend. Yeah. So as a friend who said, hey, no doubt about it. Sean, this friend knows the NFL rulebook inside and out. Needless to say, Cliff has a lot of good-looking friends. So we go out to dinner and we've got a couple friends there and Patrick was there. And then there was another player there who was a great guy. Who else was that that was with us that had played?

quarterback for you at Texas Tech. Yeah, Nick Schimanek. He had played after Patrick. He was the quarterback after Patrick, and they're really close. Yeah, and both those guys, you know, they were a lot of fun. And so I'm figuring, you know what, I knew he was going to make fun of me a year from now about having my shirt off on Hard Knocks, so I'm going to get this guy first. So I put my friend's phone number in as Roger Goodell, all right?

And I told him to text me, hey, you know better than this. I know Kingsbury checked with the league office, but he didn't really do his due diligence. You know, you know better than this, okay? Well, needless to say, Cliff was, you know, I'm sure Cliff and Steve Kime already had to figured out. They're taking Kyler Murray, number one. This guy's, he was walking around like he was seven foot. He was feeling so good about, you know, taking, taking Kyler.

And so, you know, that was the big story. And it was, you know, probably less than a month away from the draft. So he's so confident about it. So we get a couple of vodkas in. And I decide to, I say, hey, send me the text. And so I put my friend's phone number in my phone as Roger Goodell. So he texts me, hey, you know better than this. You and Kingsbury are both in deep trouble, all right, for tampering.

And so I just show the screenshot to Cliff. Okay. And I told him, I said, hey, man, he never texts me. you better get on the phone with Steve Kime and Mr. Bidwell right now because I think we're both losing picks. And this guy looked like he was going to throw up. I mean, he's always got a good tan and a nice glow. He was as white as my walls behind me and ready to puke.

And I wanted to let it go, all right? But I mean, I didn't even have it in my, I didn't have the heart to just, I mean, it was probably 30 seconds that probably felt like three hours to him. I said, I'm just kidding. I don't think he ate the rest of the meal. I didn't eat the rest of the trip. I'm like, okay, first off, I was fired two months ago. So I'm like, thank you, God, I have this opportunity.

And now I just squandered the first ticket of draft hanging out with the super coach of the year, the best player in the league. I'm like, and I'm just this guy here somehow screwed it all up. And you sold it. You sold the shit out of it, man. I was like, it was. It was when you said, it was when you were like, I'm disappointed in you. You played like, Adela was upset with you.

And I'm like, oh, my God. If he's not as strong, what do you say about me? It was a well-played prank that I should have let go way longer than I did. But it was, he handled it in stride. And this is my guy. I love Cliff. I am, it's not fun going against him twice a year, but he's doing his thing. and it's been fun watching him continue to have a lot of success in Arizona

over these last couple years where they've just gotten better and better under his leadership. Yeah, I'm going to go back in time because, Sean, I don't know if you remember this, but I was with you, I guess it was a bye week for you guys because it's on your couch during the season, which would never happen usually. And we were watching this crazy seven overtime game between Texas A&M and LSU. And it must have been November of whatever that season was when on the bottom line comes across that Cliff Kingsbury either has been let go or is resign is done at Texas Tech, which Cliff, not to bring up the worst day of your professional career, but when you get, you know, fired from your

alma mater, and I'll never forget Sean being just so crestfallen and being so heartbroken, but then immediately being like, oh, I'm going to call Cliff, I'll get them back going, I'll do whatever I can. And like, I didn't even know you guys were tight. And yet in your moment of like what could have been your lowest of low, Sean, who's a coach, but I don't know your relationship was, it was as if it happened to him. Can I ask you really how you guys hit it off and where you guys became friends and first started, I guess maybe he became acquaintances in this football world? Yeah, I mean, first off, that did mean a lot. Just Sean reaching out. I mean, he was on top of the world, still is and, you know, had gone to the Super Bowl, coaches here, all these things.

For him to take the time, just be like, hey, man, I thought you've done a hell of a job and, you know, we'll talk through some things and, you know, would love to get you out here in some capacity. It just meant the world to me. And we got in touch through a full. friend who played for Sean or on the team when Sean was really moving his way up with the Tuskers, the Orlando Tuskers on the fast track in the U.S.L. And so we've just kind of hit it off. I think more than anything, we appreciate, you know, how we treat people, I think. We both kind of have the same perspective on that, very positive outlook on things,

and then just love football, love the exes and those, love trying to attack people. And so it's been a fun relationship. And Sean, your history with Cliff, when did he first catch your eye or when did you guys start to appreciate each other's games? You know what? I knew when he was bawling and doing his thing at Texas Tech, I remember respecting his game as a player, you know, because he's a little bit older than me. And then, you know, as soon as he got into coaching and, you know, I'd always known

Chaz Gessner is the mutual friend. And so they played together. They knew each other all the way back to when they were on the Patriots team together. And I had watched him, you know, just go. up and down the field at Texas Tech playing quarterback. And then I remember when he got into coaching, you talk about a fast track where he's at Houston, his first year. I think he was like in a quality control.

Then he basically takes over as the O.C. Case Keenham and him and Kevin Sumlin are lighten the world on fire. Then he goes to A&M after Coach Sumlin gets the job at A&M. Mansell's winning a Heisman. And then before you know it, you know, he's an offensive coordinator of the year up for the Broils Award and all that kind of stuff. And I'm thinking, dang, what a great job he's done.

And then I respected the way he handled himself. I mean, when we first got connected a few years back, you know, we have the very similar interests. You know, before he finished up when he was still at Texas Tech, he came and visited us in the spring. We talked ball and really a lot of the things that he was doing tempo-wise and just creativity as far as how to attack people. You know, we implemented some of those things. And then I just remember watching the way that he interacted with our guys, you know, the Akeeb Talibs, the Marcus Peters of the world. You know, those guys that, you know, those guys know, they sniff out guys. And he just had such an easy going nice way about himself. But, you know, my favorite thing about him is when you just watch the extreme ownership that he demonstrated. You know, we talk about that. And I watch him all the time even now. He's the first guy to take the blame and he's hard on himself. And I think as a leader, that's an endearing thing because it's not just coach speak. I mean, he really means it. And that's the kind of standards that he has for himself. And, you know, other than ragging on my ass about taking my shirt off on hard knocks this guy's a hell of a guy yeah it's poor to deserve but look but you you

kept the street cred because you have the gorgeous fiance so like if you wouldn't have had her involved it would have been a bad deal overall but you still came off winning I'll say hey I appreciate that she makes you look good yeah we'll take that out kicking my coverage Veronica is she you know what you're going to get some street cred with her because she'll she'll hear that she said you know I always liked Cliff. Yeah. No doubt. Cliff, I remember when you were first hired, the whirlwind, of course, you were at USC for, I don't even know how many weeks, and then you were only a coordinator at USC.

I think it was two and a half hours. Two and a half hours. And then you interview for the Jets job, you interview for the Cardinals job, you get the gig, and there's a lot of skeptical people. This guy had a losing record at Texas Tech last year. What's he doing in the NFL? And the first thing I remember that everyone was freaking out about was that you said you were going to be giving cell phone bricks to the players.

And I remember being like, well, these kids are 20 and 21 years old. The attention span, they can't sit through a movie. I don't think it's the worst idea. Do you remember the reaction the media had when you gave those cell phone breaks to the players and kind of how you owned that? And we're like, it's a different generation of player. I don't have to tell you. Yeah, I mean, obviously it was quite negative.

And people were looking for the low-hanging fruit at that point, like you said. I mean, I got it. I knew what was coming. You get fired. You go to the NFL. You're going to deal with some of that. But my deal was just the experience I'd had in college and knowing, like, you can keep them locked in for a certain.

amount of time, but you better be flexible to give them their little, you know, space and their break and let them regroup them and then bring them back. And so I had no, you know, qualms about, you know, saying what I said. And I still believe, you know, in this generation, it's just about getting the pertinent information quickly and discreetly to them and then getting them out. Sean, what was your reaction to that when that first came out? Oh, I mean, I think anybody that really understands how people learn. I think it's, I think there's a lot of coaches that would agree with it. You know, he just happened to be the one that came out and said it. I mean, you know, players learn in bite size increments, the attention span,

you know, everybody wants to talk about how to teach these millennials. But when you just look at studies, and I think it's especially more relevant now with how much we've had to rely on these, you know, these visual and the, you know, the technical platforms like Zooms and things like that, hey, it's quick. It's got to be, give them what they need to know, give them a break, bring them back, you know. And so anybody that's a high capacity teacher and understands their learner, I think would agree with that. And if not, then they're not really studying how people learn. So what I think people misunderstood, it's not like he's saying, okay, we're going to take a little

break. Go ahead and pull your cell phones out. And now let's go ahead and swipe left and see if you can find a Tinder date right now. He didn't say that shit, you know? I mean, he was, he's talking about, hey, let's go outside. Let's get a little mental break. And when you come back in, let's lock in and have great focus and concentration. And, you know, we implement a lot of the same types of things that he talked about.

And it's amazing because, I mean, the movie, the Irish, I remember came out and it was three hours long and everyone's like, I can't sit through three hours. And I remember thinking to myself like, it's kind of like that or it's like I need, you can't ask a player to come in now, sit in for two hours, sitting in a dark room and trying to learn all these things. Why not give a five minute break? Why not clear your head? Cliff, I think you were ahead of the game with that. And I think I think of what like your whole deal is and a lot of it is those names of quarterbacks and Sean went through them. It's Keenum to Mansell. But the big one is, is that guy down there in Texas Tech, Patrick Mahomes.

That bad man. That bad man. When did you first see him? When did you know? What was the recruiting process? Was he already there? Like, take us through your relationship with Mahomes because he might be the best to ever throw a football when it's all said and done.

Yeah, that was a unique deal. You know, incredibly talented. But some of the stuff you see is the off platform, kind of shuffling back on his drop, taking nine-step drops. I mean, he kind of did that every snap. He was just out there dominating games. and I had learned of them when he was a junior and kind of watched

in high school. In high school, yeah, in high school. He wasn't even being recruited as a freshman or sophomore? He was not really that late. He was late to really play football. I mean, he wasn't a guy who went to camps. He was a baseball guy the whole way with his dad, obviously in that background,

and just came on and really selling love the game. He was in a great high school program where they spread it out and let him just play. And that's what he did. And I can see why he wasn't heavily recruited because, I mean, the mechanics may not be what you want and it was kind of hard, I guess, to get an e-vow. But every time I watched him, he was by far the best player on the field.

And so followed him, we offered him, you know, got to know him really well. And then luckily we're able to get him out there. He didn't get recruited much. I think a lot of people anticipate him playing baseball. But luckily, it worked out. And I remember Sean asked me, like when he was coming out, like, hey, is this guy the real deal? And I'm like, I've seen a few of them.

This is a different type of animal than I've seen. and he's been great so far. It's not revisionist history. He beat me to it. I was going to add this is I remember a couple years, you know, Kansas City goes up to get him and you're kind of hearing, you know, there's a lot of different narratives.

And he said, I'm just telling you, this guy is going to be special. I think probably the person that was least surprised by the success he's had is Cliff, going back to, you know, saying all the things that he said. But it's easy to say after he's done so many amazing things in such a short amount of time

that, you know, what he's done through the first few years of his career is unparalleled, but he said that before he had that success. All right. Now, Cliff, what about Kyler? Because you were in college, obviously. You were the Texas Tech coach. He was at Oklahoma.

What was your history with Kyler that you knew for sure you were taking him first overall, despite having a first round pick already on the roster? Yeah, I'd known a long time. His dad was a star quarterback. Him through that, his dad trains quarterbacks, one of the top QB trainers down there. And I had just followed his crew. I thought he was one of the most phenomenal players I'd ever seen in high school.

the things he did, obviously the championships and all of that. And then to watch the success at OU, I just knew that it could translate with that skill set. And so luckily, so far it has, I think, getting here with Steve, I didn't say anything to Steve. I said, you just watch him, you just keep watching and just study him, just eval.

I knew why I was brought here to whoever the quarterback was, I was going to develop them and try to get better on offense. And luckily, we're able to make that move and hopefully we can keep him training the right direction. Sean, have you seen Cliff try to steal any of your plays before or vice versa? They never worked. They never worked.

No, yeah, right. You ran the Cooper Cup play that we scored on a touchdown against the Vikings. I saw you run that the next year, but I certainly have copied some plays from him as well. All the best coaches are the best thieves. So I think there's all just reincarnations of the different things, how we change in the math, playing 11 on 11. But I've seen him and he's seen me. copy some of each other's stuff, that's for sure. You know, it's funny because just to book Cliff onto this

podcast, we got on a text chain, and I do the Good Morning Football Show, and I'm up at 5 a.m. Eastern. You guys are both West Coast guys. I sent the text out, I guess, overnight at some point, and at 5.55 a.m. Eastern, which is 255 a.m. Pacific, Cliff, you responded. And then Sean, about five minutes later, you responded, which got me thinking, what are your daily routines? How early are you both up? And is that just the life of a coach? Your mind is just always going and going, even in the middle of May or in early June. Cliff, give us your morning routine and kind of how your day goes. Yeah, I think for me and Sean Gapai hit on this, to be as heavily involved in the offense as we want to be. You've got to find time somewhere. And as the head coach comes seven,

in 8 a.m. There's a lot of stuff cars where you can get in your office and just get on the film and take your notes and get your thoughts together offensively. That's what I use that time for. So I usually get in, get a workout in, use that time to get prepared offensively. And then I move on to the team, more team-centric type thoughts. And then you're in staff meetings and meeting with players and going from there. Yeah, we had, I was actually just getting back in from Warwick Wednesdays. I was just finishing my night up. I wasn't just getting it started, you know, Cliff and I both know about that. No, it's, I'll tell you what, we are both, I know for me personally, I might be up early,

but I'm in bed early too. You know, it's just a matter of, like he said, is starting early. You get that quiet time. And for whatever reason, I've always just kind of been an early riser. That's when I'm kind of the most efficient. That's when I feel that I have the most mental clarity. And you get a chance to know that you're going to have a couple hours of quiet time before, you know, all the other things that are non-football related usually come.

creeping across your desk. But I'm, but I'm in bed pretty early unless, unless I'm shutting it down that late, Peter. But that's, that's, that's, I can, I can tell you that it's, we might be up early, but I'm in bed early for sure. Sean, um, you mentioned the, the best coaches are the best thieves. You guys ran a two point conversion in the playoff game that I want to say the Miami Dolphins ran something similar. And you could say, well, that actually came from this and this. What does that entail? You guys are watching. Both of you can answer. because you're both the offensive coaches. Like, are you watching all different 31 other teams offensive?

Like, how do you even get that in to know that play from another team that they ran while you guys were playing on a Sunday? Yeah, I just think technology enables you to be able to access a lot of information in an efficient way. And you got coaches that you can kind of assign for, you know, to certain things and projects, especially in those different, you know, situations, whether it's the third downs or the tight red zone. And that's exactly right. I did steal that play from Miami. You know, and actually Shane Waldron had had shown that to me who, hopefully he doesn't use it on us when he's in Seattle. You know, Cliff, we'll have to get after his ass twice a year now.

But no, it's, it's one of those deals that there's a lot of really good coaches or a lot of great ideas. And, you know, college ball is the same thing. I can remember Cliff and I connecting last year, you know, during quarantine. And we got to, you know, there's so many different good things to see, you know, whether it was going back to when he was at Texas Tech, I'd watch some of their stuff. and, you know, you see whether it's the Oklahoma's. I mean, I thought Alabama, what Coach Sarkesian and those guys did both, you know, they got special players, but you just talk about, you know, from a schematic, you know, really putting pressure on people with the different final formations and vertical pass game

and ways of creating explosives. It was really impressive stuff. What do you got, Cliff? Yeah, I think Sean nailed it. I mean, everybody's doing great stuff. And I think there's that fine line you got to walk. Sean, they run plays every week that I wish we could run, but it's just not what we major.

And the timing that he does, you know, the alignments, the splits. It's just different, different game than we play. And so you have to kind of pick your spots and make sure you don't overhaul your entire offense and get away from what you're really good at when you're kind of chasing that a bit. But there's weekend and week out, you know, there's, I'm sure Sean has, there's certain college teams I make sure I watch, and certain NFL teams I make sure I watch, and you just try to get as many ideas as you can and then make sure it fits what you do.

Cliff, you mentioned you were, Sean mentioned you were a player. Now I remember watching you in college. It was you. It was Byron Hansbard. You had a fun Texas Tech team. You guys would put up a lot of points. And you end up with the New England Patriots as a player.

And you're in that quarterback's room. Who were the other quarterbacks? Who are the coaches? I mean, I feel like that 03 Patriots team, there's going to be a 30 for 30 on just the offensive and defensive minds that were percolating through there. Who were some of the names? games that you got to learn from while you were what the third or fourth stream quarterback yeah i was i was

fourth um so was tom damon heward rohan davy myself charlie weiss um was the occd dyns was working on the defensive side like defensive and like you said brian dable was a tight-end coach i mean there was a ton of names romeo carnell and then the players was was incredible when you look at you know defensively william againis and um you know ted uh watched Ted Johnson, Richard Seymour, Otis Smith, Thai law, I mean, that whole crew. And so just to watch the professionalism, the way those guys worked, the way they carry themselves, I remember that year we went two and two and then won 15 straight. And it was just a group of guys that kind of refused to lose.

And what was Belichick like? And what's he like to you now? Yeah, he was, I mean, Sean knows him. He's a completely different animal when you're in that building and when you're away from that building. But the attention to detail is legendary. obviously the preparation, I mean, weekend and we go, you're going to know every situation that could possibly arise. And at some point in the season, it does. Yeah, I'll tell you what's amazing.

And Cliff and I have talked about this. And I was actually, Chris Shula, one of our coaches had just gotten married this past weekend, just got back from there. I still feel a little shaky, to be honest from it. We had a blast. But Jed Fish was there, who's now the head coach at Arizona. And he had worked on that staff last year with Coach Belichick. struck up a relationship and the competitive endurance and what he's able to get done during the course of the week and the amount of detail like Cliff's talking about when you just listen to

whether it's the team meetings, involvement in the defense, offense, the kicking game, and even just when you spend a little bit of time with them and you feel like somebody is pulling from, you know, you talk about people that have forgotten more football than you know. I mean, it's an impressive inventory that you feel like he's pulling from. and then when you hear the stories, whether it's from the players or the coaches, the people that have been in that building, everybody's got reverence. And I don't think anybody would say that they're not incredibly impressed with the amount of stuff and things that he can get done and how efficient he is and consistent he is with his work weeks. Cliff, give us one good Brady story. My favorite, as of recently, was so we're at a wedding for a mutual friend in Dakers Bay, which is like paradise for us.

adults like Candyland for adults in the Bahamas and we're the night before the wedding everybody's up getting hammered I mean everybody I mean even Brady is you know having fun who's the crew I like I like setting the scene who do we got here I mean it's a lot of the old Patriot guys one of our boys will McDonnell it's his wedding so it's a good good crew getting it going night before the wedding late night I wake up early because I can't can't sleep real well anyways and so I'm going to check out the island and I get in a little golf like golf car and I'm cruising long and I look up and I see like on these polo field some dude with some other guy and it looks like he's doing like resistive band drops right I'm like what so I drive over this is like

730 we're up getting it like 730 I drive over and he's already pouring sweat right he has his assistant who's holding these resistive bands this in paradise like Bahamas and he's just crushing these drops and then sprinting through and just killing it killing it killing it and getting this workout. I'm like, you are such a sociopath, but his desire to be the best ever is just on some levels that, I mean, the world hasn't seen much like this. A guy who's dedicated every waking moment, diet, sleep, work ethic to be in the best ever. And so that just kind of tells a story of him and what he's about. Has he changed significantly from when you were his backup in 2003 to now winning a Super Bowl in 2021? I mean, still still the same grade, dude.

Sean's been around him some, but the way he, I'll never forget just how he would get to know all the ball boys' names, all the manager's names, admit so much to people, all that stuff is just beautiful. I want to hate him a guy because it's like he made a deal with the devil on so many levels, but there's another negative to say the guy's phenomenal human being and one of the hardest workers, probably to ever play sports. He really is. I mean, he's the man.

Sean, what's your anecdote with Brady? I'm sure you've dealt with it. Not surprised at all. I mean, I think what says as much about. Tom is, is I remember, you know, a couple years ago, we had gone to the derby after, you know, he broke my heart and won his sixth Super Bowl. And now he gets his seventh at, you know, with the bucks. But I just remember, you know, I think what says as much about Tom is the amount of different teammates that still go back, you know, he's kind of the guy that brings it all together

where they're going, they're making trips. You listen to the, you know, just to respect and admiration that, you know, whether it's Cliff, Brian Hoyer, you know, coaches that I've been around that have spent time with him. You know, he's one of those guys. You're like, you know, you want to hate on him, but you're like, well, I can't think of anything other than, God, Lee, he's unbelievable. Yeah.

That's it. That's a goat. Okay. So we talked about it. You know, I couldn't really get Lafleur to answer other than just a tough game as the Titans O.C. Against the Ravens. Sala, regrettably, you know, takes a time out when he can't find Shanahan.

His freaking neck, what? He's just so pissed off. off. You know, I'm getting my, you know what, rip from Jay Gruden for trying to go tempo and then not listening when we were in a no score situation. We end up scoring. Thank God for that. What's one of those moments where you say, that was an awful, awful decision that I just made right there. It's actually perfect because it was against y'all the last game, right? It's seven, it's, Peter, it's seven to five, right? We have to win a. make the playoff. Sean is 100 and O

when he's the league at a half time. We finally have a lead. He's beating the Cardinals eight times in a row. Eight times in a row. We're about to have a lead at a half time. We haven't gotten a yard all game. We finally have a little bit of a two-minute drive going. We get about the plus 40. And I'm

thinking, well, let's just hard count. And then I'll check into the play. I was saying speed option, right? We have an athletic quarterback end. So we hard count. All right? We think they jump. And this is with the backup who's really hasn't played much. What's his name?

I sound like I'm insulting him. Chris. But he hadn't played. This is literally his first NFL snaps up for no preseason. So I put this kind of package on him, which he's never practiced. And we do it. We think they jump. They don't jump.

We snap it. And so a pick six. Yeah. I mean, we're going to at least at worst. Troy Hill was running forever. He almost fell when he cut back across the rain. I'm thinking, let's go, baby.

And how quiet. How quiet is it? How quiet is it? I'm just like, this is the twilight zone. You can't hear anything except Sean running down, cheering. And it was just, because in my head, I had just thought, if we can just have a lead on this. I have a half time, we got a chance. We have a chance because he never loses the beats ahead and half.

And we said that take, and it was an awful play call, awful decision, everything about it. And then they end up beating us. But that one will stay with me a long time. well our guys have done a good job but Troy Hill oh man hey I will say this I liked that play call you made right there coach Kingsbury it worked out hey that probably wasn't nearly as bad as my decision the first time we played you guys to run it on fourth and one I think you guys had a 12 man zero blitz going poor Camakers gets bamboozled in the background I mean it's a negative four. I am like, what?

I know. You've got to be the dumbest idiot, Sean. Why would you do that? Spend it up. Win fast. Yeah. Hey, here's a good idea. Let's, uh, when Vance is going to zero blitz, you just run right into an unblocked defender on fourth and goal. I mean, you talk about one of those crawling to a hole. That's one of those golf hands and all of and just started walking. That might have been as bad of an idea as having Wolford on the goal. goal line run that I tried to run when he tried to cut back. Almost, listen, that was not the design of the play.

I'm surprised his head didn't come off of his body right there with the pursuit. Smoke. Smoke. This segment could last us the next eight episodes if I really want to start recalling all my bad play calls, Peter. You do with me both. And you always remember those. I know you remember everything.

Those stay with me the most. I can't remember the good ones. There's a reason why I don't sleep very well, and I think that's it. Cliff, is there a favorite play call from last year that you can relive that you're like, you know what, that was pretty good? And I can't imagine the Hail Mary is considered a play call. Yeah, I mean, I'll say credit for that one. I did say, hey, if you like hop, let it fly.

That was a great coaching point. That's great. Good coaching point. If you do like hop, you can let them fly. You know, when they're walking out, have you ready to say everything. say that last thing. He told him, he said, throw it to this bad man in between

15 Bill's defenders, and he'll go up and get it, and you'll get flush to your left. It was a, woo. You kind of say a lot of enough, but kind of not. Maybe he doesn't.

As long as one player heard it. That's all that matters. Yeah. No, there was a quarterback draw we called. We played Washington, and we had just had a hold of calling. It was like second and 20. And we called a QB draw.

The Kyler had a great run. That was fun, because they got a good defense. And so that was that was a big time playing the game. How about you, Sean? Oh, man. You know what? I'll tell you what.

It is always about these guys making it come to life. But, you know, one of the, you know, the one I think just going back to, you know, some of the stuff that we talked about where I saw Cliff have success running the same play. You know, you go back to a couple years, Thursday night game, golf can't miss. He's on fire. You know, that play, we had put it in. We didn't practice it at all. all where we kind of leaked Cooper Cup across the grain out the back door for a 70-yard touchdown.

That was one of those that I think Cliff can attest to it. You know, the players make it come to life, but you feel like, all right, you kind of helped, you know, give them an opportunity to execute. That was one that was certainly a fun one. And then I really liked the third and long conversion we had against the Arizona Cardinals the first time we played him watching Kingsbury go nuts on the sidelines on third down and 10. And through the checkdown.

Yeah, that was fun. We threw a little flat route to Gerald Everett for about 20. And we had to have it right there because you were creeping back in it. We were going. It was 24-21. Is it like that? Were you guys will remember the exact play, the situation, the scenario, and you'll know it eight months later.

It's that crazy, is it? The painful ones, I do. I know Sean can see a bunch of them. I remember the painful ones, but I don't remember all of them. Yeah, Cliff knows them, though. But here's the thing, though, you know, like what people give, I know me too much credit for? is what we do. We go back through it. So it's not like we call the play and then you never go back

through it again. Right. You know, part of our job is to review the film, make corrections. When you're doing your installs, you go back through stuff and self-scout or when you're teaching, you know, the stuff that you want to do for the following season. So there is a lot of, you know, I mean, I can't even remember how to get, you know, from work to the office. So I remember stuff that I go back over consistently. And that's what, you know, we do with football. the untold stories of coaching sometimes is some of the stuff that isn't all X's and O's based. And one of them is one of my favorite stories involving the two of you, Sean. It involves a late season game in 2019 between the Cardinals and the Rams.

Why don't you take it away from here? Yeah, so it was the last game of the regular season. And so, you know, I think probably one of the things that Cliff and I as head coaches get the most, you know, sometimes you're like, oh, gosh, is people hitting you up for sideline passes? Well, very, very seldomly has the opposing head coach texted to me, you know, after we get our game plans done, you know, he's like, hey, Sean, any chance that you can get me a couple extra sideline passes, it was going to be the last game that we had played at the Coliseum. So it was kind of a special day. And so I said, you know, it's pretty tight. He says, it's for a European IG model. I said two sideline passes.

as it is, my friend. That's it. That's it. So I think, you know, that's just part for the, their course for Coach Kingsbury. He's always going with good company.

And, you know, hey, good for you, buddy, good for you. We still lost the game. But we won the pregame.

We won the pregame. We won the fight. I'll say what. We both were winning with, you know, my fiance. Yes. Yes.

You know, But we did. We both have good taste. I'll say that. Sean, do you think that was the first ticket request in NFL history for a European Instagram model? Well, I'll tell you what.

I think he went through other avenues and he had to go through me. And I think a couple people got their sideline passes taken away to help Coach Kingsbury make sure that he had a nice date after the game. And, you know, hey. I owe you. You do. Sean, Cliff was busting your tail a little bit about the shirt off. Cliff, the draft photo, the draft set up two years ago, take us through it because it still has a little bit of a Patrick Batten vibe for me.

Here's my question for you, all right? When you did that, I mean, because let's be honest, the house is swaggy, okay? What was the thought process? Was it, okay, I have no idea that this is. going to be so big time or I know I'm for sure not going to be dateless for the next few months because there's going to be a lot of intrigue as it is already. I'll just say this. When you light the fire and it's like 105 degrees out there and the sun's out, you know what you're trying to go for. So when the fire is lit, I appreciate it. I knew what we were playing

for. How about sockless situate? No socks, loafers. I mean, just the coolest guy. And Sean, we know Cliff like the man, but that was next level. I mean, it was outstanding. I mean, who are kidding? All right. The haters are going to hate. I was jealous, okay? Me too.

I thought to myself, how can it? So what the NFL did going into, you know, the COVID draft, would you literally, you had to have one of those like, you know, iPhone setups that they sent to each of the head coaches and the GMs with one of the, you know, the light things that goes around it, you know, sure, I could, I'm not explaining it appropriately. You sound like, you sound like a. YouTube influencer, Sean. Go on. Yeah, you got it. You're good. This is not going to be good, but I'm just being honest right now. Okay. So Cliff, you got to set it up in a

place that, hey, make sure that Steve Kime is, it's not hiding in the corner or somewhere like that. So there was a very intentional thought process. And I'm not going to lie, I thought, man, that is a nice setup. I almost like moved mine around even more to where it was. And it's still just got totally, I mean, my man, Sam Farmer was. bragging on me like, hey, I think Sean McVeigh's in Cliff Kingsbury's outhouse, you know, where you could see a decent view and a couple, you know, fake turfs and stuff like that. So I said, I'm one up in this and going to freaking Malibu next year. No, I'm just kidding. The Malibu draft house was all right, though. But Cliff, honestly, I mean, there's this vision of

Cliff Kingsbury, hey coach, and there's the real you that we know. I mean, literally, I'll tell this to listeners and to Sean during the quarantine. Cliffwood just text. me out of the blue and be like, hey, how's your family doing? You know, like, just checking on your little man. Like, what's going on? How are you guys doing? Just checking in. Like, really the sweetest guy in the world. And not that a, you know, a guy in that house wouldn't be a sweetheart, but like there is this, I think there's this, this impression people have of you as this one guy, but I think you're completely the other. Sean, what is your take on, like, what people imagine of the Cliff Kingsbury experience and then who he really is? Well, he's a handsome guy.

You know, I mean, he was the same coach that, you know, all the girls at Texas. Tech made a shirt that said our coach is hotter than yours. So, I mean, so he had this narrative and this swag. And then, I mean, he did win a dance off on a stanky leg. I don't know what year that was, but I mean, this guy can dance. So, but he's also, he is that guy, you know, he's a ball guy at, you know, at his core. And, you know, he's got a great way about just being an authentic human being for who he is. But he's got some other interests and some swag. And I think that could be, sometimes misinterpreted, but don't let it get in the way of all those good things you were saying about him. But he'll tell you he's got some swagger too now.

I mean, I think Sean, he knows. I think it's important in this profession to be true to yourself because he mentioned earlier. A guy smell it out if you're not. If you're not trying to be yourself or genuine, then they'll see right through that. So I just try to be myself. And I go to bed early just like Sean and wake up early. And so it's not nearly as glamorous as the photo made. may look.

Before we wrap, just, I guess, Cliff, to give more perspective on who you are and kind of where you come from, tell us about who your father is, kind of your family story, who your mother was, and what really, who the people are responsible for Cliff Kingsbury being who he is today. Yeah, very fortunate to grow up in an incredible family. My dad was my high school football coach in Texas. My mom taught seniors at my high school, so it was kind of the Friday night light. vibe and just always afforded me anything I needed.

Weren't, you know, wealthy by any stretch being to educators, but gave me every opportunity to be successful. My dad was a Marine, served our country, received a Purple Heart. And so that's one of the things I'm most proud of is just kind of being raised by a guy who, you know, had that type of military background and the way he kind of instilled those principles in my brother and I. Sean, knowing Cliff as well as you do, I guess what do you value most and kind of what are the character traits that that you think make him such a great NFL head coach?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's the humility. I mean, you listen to his family background and that, and that tells you because he has then, you know, been, I can't imagine how proud his family is of the man that he's become because he's a great guy. He's an authentic guy that is, you know, he cares about people. I mean, you hear some of the stories and some of the nice things that he's done. and he doesn't really, it's not something that's out in front of, you know, the public eye. He does a lot of amazing things behind the scenes, you know, doing some special stuff, you know, because was it, I think about a story that it was told to me kind of in private about what a great guy, Cliff Kingsbury is. Help me remember this, Cliff, and I know you'll probably be, you know, embarrassed about this, but he would never want anyone to know about it. When Mahomes was playing in the Super Bowl, you helped his high school coach because of the relationship

that you guys developed, get tickets to the Super Bowl, right? You know, I think this gives you some insight into what a special guy is. Yeah. If you'll tell that story. His high school coach, like I mentioned earlier, tremendous high school coach program, great offensive mine. And so getting to recruit Patrick developing in that relationship, I just, I knew how much it would mean for him to be at that game.

And we actually got to sit next to each other and celebrate the whole game. Because I actually went to that one, his first one as well. So that was a special moment. But he was so good to me through the recruiting process. I had such admiration for the time about coach he was that was really excited that we could kind of share that experience together. Yeah. All right. As we wrap, and Sean and I have done this with Sala and LaFleur.

And a lot of coaches listen to this. And it's not just NFL coaches. It's college coaches. It's high school coaches. It's Pop Warner coaches. Cliff, if there's a young coach who's trying to get into this business right now and they're a couple years into it and they're wondering, what would be the piece of advice that someone who's had such a meteorist? rise as you have had, what would be your one kind of life lesson or career advice that you

would give that young man or woman? I think more than anything I mentioned earlier, just be yourself. I don't think you have to change, and I don't think that serves you well. If you try to emulate exactly like someone else, I think whoever you are as a man needs to come across in your coaching, take a little bit from every coach and every person you're around, but always be true to yourself, be genuine to who you are as a person. should serve you well. Love it. Yeah, no, and I think

the other part of that too, which is exactly one of the things that Cliff has, and really you have this as well, Peter, is in order to be yourself, you have to have some self-awareness. You know, there's usually a big difference in terms of the way that you see yourself and the way that others see yourself, you know, but when

those two things are aligned and you have a real sense of that, and then you can then go be the best version of yourself, really pour into people, that stuff comes back to you. And, you know, there's a consistent work ethic, but there's also a sincerity that exists. And that's exactly what, you know, Cliff is. That's what you are.

And I think that's why the success that's followed you guys speaks for itself. And the other thing I'd say is just connections are important because I'm talking with Sean and Peter, with Sean, just getting to know him the things he said about me to RGM to other people really help me. Obviously, the success he had as a young offensive mind set a stage for a lot. of us young offensive coach is getting an opportunity, but he was pivotal in me even getting this opportunity. And so I do think connections along the way that people you meet is important in this profession. Cliff, you're the man. We appreciate you doing this. I know you're a busy guy.

You guys both are super busy. Sean, I'll let you close it up with your division rival, Cliff Kingsbury, and maybe some words as you guys head to another season. Will you be facing each other twice in the regular season campaign? Well, Cliff, I appreciate you coming on here. Shots fired right from the jump. You certainly brought it like you always do, man. Hopefully we can connect. And I'm looking forward to seeing the Arizona Cardinals continue to do their thing, with the exception of twice a year. You know, we can all both enjoy each other. But you know what? Those two games, I hope you have a lot of shitty play calls. The odds are after eight consecutive victories, at some point it's got a flip, man.

So we'll keep, we'll keep plugging away. But now I appreciate it, man. You all are awesome. And thanks for having me. Sean. I love it. Awesome stuff, Cliff. It means a lot. You'd come on, dude. Have a great rest of your week, and good luck this season, dude. Y'all too.

We'll see you. Sean, Cliff was great. That was fun. It was fun. He came out firing on me, that's for sure. I know you got a kick out of that, Peter. I was giggling like a little kid over here. The truth of the matter is, last week with LaFlor and Sala, it was like, it took a little bit

for him to get comfortable. You could tell Cliff had listened, and he was like, I'm coming for it right away. He was ready. He was ready. I'm just glad he's such a big, hard-knocks. fan when the Rams were on it. Isn't that funny? All right. Maybe he was watching for the Chargers parts of it, but no, it is what it is. No, he wasn't. No, he wasn't. We're going to bring on our awesome producer, our guy, Craig Horlebeck. Craig, what's going on, dude?

Not much. Let's get into the, what do you call it? The voicemails and the emails? Nope. Oh, gosh. Surely you've thought of something better since last week, Peter. Nope. It is, it is now, it is trending on Twitter. Everyone's talking about it. It is called. It is the emails and the voicemail. It is, it's very popular. Hey, I'm, no way that's trending on Twitter, Peter. It's catchy. Don't you lie. It's very catchy. Craig, why don't you grace us with some emails. We'll do our best and we'll answer them. What do you say? Let's do it. So remember, Flyingcoach podcast at gmail.com, you can email us or check the number in the show's description. You could leave a voicemail. All right, the first question is from CJ from West Palm Beach. He asks, Sean, I'm a young coach and I'm always looking to grow. One thing I really want to grow in is offensive play calling. What are some good materials to learn from?

So I thought maybe we'd spin this question just a bit to a bit more of a broader question, which is how do coaches come up with new plays and develop their own scheme, like their own identity? How do you know what you want to do? That's a good question right there. I would say, you know, anytime that you can get, you know, deliberate practice about just calling plays, but you got to figure out what do you want to be first. I think it always starts with your players, but we're all a product of our experiences

and the environments we've been placed in. For example, I started out, you know, my grandfather, I never realized what an influence that had on me even before I realized I wanted to be a coach. But then you're saying you get a chance to work for John Gruden. You're around Jay Gruden. Then you get a chance to be around Mike and Kyle Shanahan.

And so you take all those little pieces of the things that you've been exposed to and then you say, with the players that we have, how can we put together a system that encompasses an identity, you know, what do you want to be on those first and second downs? How do you want to operate situationally? Everything for us always starts with the quarterback position. I learned that from Bill Walsh, but, you know, whether it's in practice settings, you know, we try to create as many competitive situations in practices where you're saying,

all right, let's play it like a game where organically different things come up, you know, end of the half, end of the game. And so being able to practice those things and then like anything else, who are the people that are doing it the best and study them. And that's where I feel so fortunate that I've been around people like that. But there's so many different things that are at our disposal. Even through YouTube being able to look at that kind of stuff, you know, the NFL gives you the access, you know, even, you know, normal fan, whatever it might be, to the all 22 films.

So getting your hands on as much information to acquire more knowledge and then being around people that can really pour into you. And that's been one of the things that has been such a blessing for me for sure. Sean, one of the things that I remember when we first were talking about your philosophy as a head coach was you'd always reference the wooden pyramid of success. Are there any reading materials now that we're in the summer reading session that you would advise a young coach to read? Oh, that's yes, absolutely. Number one, one of the books that I love, you know, I talk about my grandfather's influence, but Bill Walsh wrote a book was Steve Jameson called The Score Takes Care of Itself. And it's about leadership. My grandfather actually has a chapter in it. He also, Steve Jameson, wrote. a book with Wooden, John Wooden on leadership. Those are two of my favorite books. John Gordon is another good friend of mine who's an author. He wrote a book with Mike Smith. You went in the locker room first that, man, that had a lot of really good valuable information. But, you know, being able to

identify your core beliefs and then things within that specific arena that help you do those jobs at a high level and learn from people that have done it at a really high level. Those are some of the books that I've read that I've really enjoyed that have had an influence on me for sure. That's great. Craig, what do we got? Email two. Next one. Scott from Northeast Scotland. We got Scott from Scotland. So he's got two questions here. He says he's a Rams fan in Scotland. Nice. I love it. First one's for Sean. He says this week there's been a release of a documentary and the legendary football manager, Sir Alex Ferguson, who was the manager of Manchester United. And he says, and I was wondering if you, Sean, have reached out to coaches from other sports like Sir Alex.

or others to gain knowledge and tips on how they manage situations and success. Yes, I've gotten to establish some pretty special relationships with some NBA coaches. And actually, you know, the Cronky family, who has been amazing to me, also owns Arsenal. And I've gotten a relationship with Mikel Artita. I've loved even watching, you know, there was a documentary on Manchester City called All or Nothing. You know, they do this on football as well. And I remember watching Pep Gordiola. what a stud he is and the success he's had as a soccer manager.

And McKell was actually an assistant on that staff. It was filmed a couple years ago. It was, you know, they just recently won the English Premier League, but they had also wanted a couple years back. And I think I've always been so impressed with just the communication because you have so many players from different countries and backgrounds. And you talk about how do we communicate in the amount of different languages that these guys are able to speak to connect with all of their players.

and in a lot of instances, those guys are special. Doc Rivers, Brad Stevens are two guys. You know, I've gotten to know, Steve Kerr, who, flying coach, you know, episode one host. And so we've actually texted since we started this up. But, you know, I'm going to have to check that documentary out for sure because you can always learn without a doubt. And then question for Peter here from Scott.

He asks, when Good Morning Football was presented to you, did you have any test screenings with other hosts? Or was it always just you, Nate, Kyle, and Kay Adams? You know, it's a great question. When I was doing Fox Sports One, which was back to 2012, 2013, I remember going through a battery of tests on screen, and they would do mix and match. It was like, we're going to do a football show. Peter, you're going to be in the analyst chair, and, you know, Brian Erlacker is going to be in one chair, and Robert Smith from Ohio State's going to be in another, and Joel Klatt's going to be another. All right, let's mix it up. And this time, Peter,

you're in the insider chair. And it was literally all day of different tests. And I was like, this feels like Hollywood. It feels like the auditions. Good Morning Football was put together in a much different way and we're very fortunate that we hit it off. But I got a call probably July 4th from a guy named Michael Davies who, if you're not familiar, Michael Davies helped create Who Wants to Be a Millionaire with Regis. And then Michael Davies went on to create, watch what's happening live with Andy Cohen, which is the Bravo After Show from all those real housewives. And then Michael Davies went on to start the Men and Blazers, which is a soccer podcast where he's one of the guys on camera. He's a TV visionary. And he called me and was like,

I always liked you on Fox Sports One. We always enjoyed your voice. Would you be interested in this show? And I said, yeah, I'd love to try out. And he's like, no, no, no, it's not a tryout. Like, we want you. And to feel, you know, being approached as almost a recruit for the first time my career where someone was actually proactively coming after me. I'm like, well, let me check with Fox and make sure I can make it work. I did. Got there on July 27th, show up at the studio, and we're supposed to go live July 29th. And it was the first time I'd ever met Kay Adams, who's our host, two days before our first episode, never met her before. Nate Burleson, I covered as a pro, got to know him, but never had done anything on television with him.

And then Kyle Brandt, I knew because he used to produce Jim Rome's radio show. And I would go on as a guest. We had never done any auditions together, no rehearsals. They threw us together in a complete opposite of how it's usually done with TV and sports. And you hear about actors going on auditions five times. We just was, it was just sink or swim. And fortunately, we sunk a bunch early, but they gave us the time to swim. But yeah, we were kind of just thrown together and mishmash together.

And we had not been on set together until we. We actually were already given the jobs and agreed to it. For you guys to have that kind of rapport and comfort with one another? I mean, that's impressive. What it was is we all were jumping at something. We had something to lose. Like, I had a good situation at Fox, and I'm like, I'm going for it. Nate could have done anything.

He was like, I'm going for it. Kyle Brandt moved his whole family from L.A. And Kay was working, I think, for NBC sports at the time and had a nice career as one of their hosts and fantasy analysts. And we all were like, let's jump at this. And we're only going to work if all four of us were in. So they got us at the right time in all of our careers, and they took a risk on all four of us, and fortunately it worked. That's awesome.

Okay, this next one here's from Nick. He says, this is for Peter. It says, a really simple mental model for NFL journalists is pundits versus analysts. We could say somebody like Scapebales is the pundit extreme, and Aaron Schatz is the analyst extreme. Do you agree with that view of the NFL journalism universe? And if so, where do you aspire to be? How does that aspiration manifest in the way you work? Okay.

So for the listeners, that's two extremes. shots is one of the football outsiders, heavily analytics-based, the DVOA rankings. It's all about numbers, and he definitely communicates it well, and has been doing it for years. On the other end, you've got Skip Bayliss, who goes without saying. I'm not going to

weigh in on either one. Skip just tweeted that game five of the Lakersons game is the most important game of LeBron's career. He might be right. He might be right. But the truth of the matter is... No, he's not right. That's not right. The truth of the matter. With all due respect, that's not accurate.

This guy's had a lot of pretty important games in the NBA finals that he's done his thing on. All right. What are we talking about? What are we talking about here? Truthfully, though, I try to create and carve out my own role. And that's hard because these TV executives and these journalism places want you to be plugged into square, square, you know, what is it? A round peg, square, whatever it is. Yeah, but it's like, you know, fake in a square hole.

Exactly, right. But it's, you know, think about it. It's like there's Adam Schaefter than on NFL network. It's Ian Ravort, then on Fox. It's Jay Glazer, and this is what you do. You tweet out transactions. And it's like, I don't know. I feel like I'm my own, I'm kind of a unicorn.

And I try to combine all of those roles. And then on Good Morning Football, I've got to be critical. I can't come in on a three-hour show and just talk about ankle injuries and transactions. I have to be able to give criticism. So, you know, you get caught in it. And, Sean, I think you'll appreciate having to do. do a job and it's not always fun but like you know i was so so tough on the steelers going into their game against buffalo because i forget who they lost to the week before but i was really harsh on them

and i'm like it might have been because juju was doing the dancing whatever it was and like i was going skip bailist mode like i was sente when they lost to the bengals yeah something like that they lost their way monday night football they lost to the bangles but here's the difference big win for zach taylor it was our guy but here's the difference from skip bayliss or some of the other pundits who sit on a studio and do the show five days a week, you know, guess who I had to talk to the next week as a guest on the show, Cam Hayward,

and he'd been watching, and he knows. And I've been caught in a lot of ways where it's like you learn the hard way that you can't be a hot take guy if you actually have to deal with the players and the coaches on a daily basis and need them to respect you and need them to know.

You can be fair in criticism, but I'll never forget. And Sean, I think I've told you this story. I guess it was 2016 or 20s. 2017, Cam Newton decided not to wear a tie on a flight to Seattle for a Sunday night game. And Ron Rivera made the decision to bench Cam Newton and start Derek Anderson because Cam Newton did not follow the dress code on the flight. I came on Monday. Ron Rivera, he lost his team with this. That kind of stuff works in high school.

What's Ron Rivera trying to prove? You're in a playoff hunt here. Derek Anderson threw a pick six his first pass. What are we doing? Sure enough, my phone rings. And it's Stephen Drummond, the PR guy from the Carolina Panthers. And Drummy, who I've known for years, is like, bro, what'd you say on the show this morning? I go, why? He goes, it's getting around our building. And I just, you know, I don't think you know the whole story. Sure enough, guess who's doing sidelines? And I get the assignment that week for Falcons Panthers that next Sunday. Me. Guess who has to go face Ron Rivera face to face in his office that Friday at a production meeting. Me. I go in there.

Brandon Bean at the time is the assistant GM in Carolina, and I've known Brandon for a while. He pulls me aside. He's like, Ron's hot, dude. You got to squash this. Like, Ron is hot with you, and you guys don't know each other that well. You can't go on national TV and criticize his decision without you talking to him directly. And I'm like, I know, I know, I know.

I walk in there, uh, sorry, coach. I, uh, you know, I just, uh, I did. Ron's like, let me just tell you something. every time you open your mouth on that network, you got to realize it's on in all the buildings. Just know that you need to have your T's crossed and your eyes button, whatever it is, your eyes dotted. Like you need to know what you're talking about. In that particular situation, here's what went down. And he explained the whole situation to me. And he's like, I had to do it. It was what it was. I already spoke with Cam. We're good. Da-da-da-da-da. And he's like,

and I don't respect you one bit. And I think you're a hack. And I'm like, whoa. And he's like, I'm just fucking with you, man. Me and Bean and Drummy were talking. and he's like, I have no problem with what, but it's a lesson to learn. He's like, I'm just messing with you. It's all good. He's like, but that's it. So I learned early on when I started doing this thing. I can't be always out on the limb making the hot take, but I also know that people are watching and I can't just say every player and every coach is the greatest thing. So long story short, somewhere in between, just be true to who you are, but know that when you do this and you get to a certain level, people are listening, people are reading,

and it's a flattering thing. If they actually respect what you say, but at some point, you're going to have to face 300-pound Cam Hayward or Ron Rivera and look them in the eye, you better be willing to back up what you believe and what you say. Okay, this dovetails perfectly into the last question here before we get to the voicemail.

This is for both you guys. This is from Shane and Ireland. We've got a lot of international fans here. Nice. Wow. All right. So he says, you two seem to know each other and trust each other very well.

Sean, has there been anything that you have told Peter in confidence that has gone to leak to the media, not necessarily through Peter, that you have been pissed about, and then basically vice versa. Peter, has there been anything that Sean has told you in confidence that you've really wanted to leak or break, but you haven't been able to?

You go first. Yeah, I mean, so I think the special thing is that there's an understanding and a mutual expect, but Peter, before anything, is a legitimate, genuine friend of mine. And so there have been things that, you know, that he knows about that I'll share and say, hey, this is, this is in confidence. And we're speaking as friends, not as, you know, guys that are professionally involved in football and I'm able to go to him on certain things but there has never been I think that's part of what a real friendship is is that there is a you know a trust that you never second guess he's

always been a true loyal friend that's never changed from the day that we met and I think the unique thing is is that we both have an understanding of how we can both do jobs and but also be able to share and confide in one another and not let those two lines blur yeah and I give credit to my bosses for not having a scoreboard up there for saying, hey, every transaction made, every piece of injury news, every single piece of info from the Rams should come from you. Like, it's never been like that. If anything, my strength is telling the story after it's broken and giving you the full details and taking you through it. I think some of the ones that I remember is like when they were courting in Dama Kinsu a few years ago, and they took them to the

Nobu and Malibu, and here was who was at the meal. It was Ted Rath. And it was Sean McVeigh, and it was going down. But not until it was actually announced that Sue was a ram, was I willing to jump out and give you the full details of how it all went down. I think the fans appreciate that. I'd never been pissed at Sean if Schaefter or Glazer or one of those guys breaks a piece of news because that's great journalism on their part. And they're the ones going for it.

I've broken my fair share of Rams news. It doesn't always come from Sean. I've got people in that building that I trust and rely on. But I think there's always been a fine line. And I've never crossed it, but I also fortunately don't have bosses who are saying, hey, you better break more Rams news or it's your job on the line. Okay. Let's get to the voicemail here to close out the show.

Hey, Peter, Sean. Cody Rourke over here in Colorado, one of the questions I had for you, how often is it that there are opportunities for football coaches to kind of create a little bit of an emphasis on understanding terminology? That way, people who watch the game and go back and watch film on NFL game, pass or however they get their hands on the all 22. How is it that we can make media members a lot more aware about the intricacies of what's going on in the game?

Do you feel like it would bridge the gap in some of those discussions that we often see in hot tape culture versus actually grinding their tape and watching the final product? Thank you. Great question from Cody. Sean. Go ahead, Peter. Here's the thing. I don't watch tape.

And I've said this before. I can appreciate it when it's called out to me, but it's not my strength. I didn't grow up playing football. I don't have a coach's background. So all those shows that are all excellent, the edge NFL matchup that I grew up with or the NFL Playbook on NFL Network where Brian Baldinger is breaking it down.

I love watching it. I can gobble it up, but like I'm never going to be that target audience. I much rather talk about the story behind the story. And the coach's tape is almost, it's a different language to me. So I think it would go a great distance to help educate the media,

but there's a very specific media, media that can do it properly. And I think, Sean, you could probably name the guys off one hand that, like, know how to break down tape and are doing a good job on it on television. But to teach someone who doesn't or expect someone who doesn't have a training or background, it's like learning a new language. So for me, to Cody's point, like it might help bridge that gap. But Sean, I'd ask you, like, when you have someone, whether it be a beat reporter, male, female, or someone on TV, questioning a coaching decision, and you know they can't talk X's and O's like you can. Do you roll your or do you just understand that like that's kind of what this all is about?

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, first of all, it is like a different language and, you know, you immerse yourself in it and there are certain generic terms and big picture nuances to the game that, you know, generally speaking, a lot of the football experts could be able to, you know, explain and articulate. But part of what makes this game so unique is that, you know, you have your own vernacular and verbiage for, you know, offense, defense, to the kicking game. there's universal terminology that, you know, people can, you know, kind of understand if you've got to, you know, if you're really diving into the X's and O's. And I think the challenge, and I think that's

why these, these announcers and these color commentators and the play by play guys that do such a good job have a unique way of being able to reach the highest common denominator, but not speak over their lowest common denominator and their general football fan. And so I think that's a specific, kind of genre and target audience. And I think there are things like that, like the NFL matchup show, you know, the guys that do an excellent job of really breaking down the All-22 film

and dive into those details. But it's what makes football so special, but it's also so unique and where there's different platforms. But it is a kind of a universal language, but also a very specific language within each building that makes it a little bit more challenging

to say, all right, this is all-encompassing. to the Cardinals and the Rams, you know, it's, we might, we might see the same defensive coverage contour, but we might identify it in different ways based on what our foundational principles are that we want to operate with. Sean, to Cody's point, though, would you, would it go a long way if one of the beat reporters really was grinding the tape and a press conference was like, hey, second and seven, I saw that you guys attacked the three-force game, like, would that go a long way for an aspiring guy, or is that something that you just would roll your eyes at and say stop trying.

Yeah, no, I think, you know, I definitely admire the people that want to take that approach. You know, you can tell if they put in the work. You know, there's certain people that are just reading the news clippings. And then there's other people that you can tell that have really put in the time to study it like we'd like to, you know, think we're putting in the right time throughout the course of the week. And I definitely have respect for that. But I think it's all about, you know, what is that specific angle that that person wants to take? none of which is right or wrong.

It's just kind of who do they want to be? What is their employer want them to be? And the people that do take that approach, you know, for example, like when I did, I got a chance a couple years ago to go and work with, you know, on the set of ESPN, I had tremendous respect for the work that was done by Lewis Riddick and by Steve Young. You could tell I was on the booth with them. They had done their work. They had studied both the Niners and the Chiefs from an X's and O's.

You know, I thought Susie Colbert was an outstanding. you know kind of point guard to facilitate the dialogue and the conversation but but that was the approach that they wanted them to take and i had tremendous respect from that experience with them because of the intricate knowledge they had from the work that you could feel was put in that'll do it that's good stuff i encourage everyone and craig you can put out that email again it's in the description um emails and voices we got over 70 which is overwhelming and awesome to both Sean and I that you guys would think to do that. And the coolest thing is they came from Ireland, Scotland, Australia. Guys, if you have any questions for me or Sean McVeigh, send them

along. Like, this is the time to do it. And I appreciate it. Sean, I know you do too. Yeah, it's great. I appreciate it. It's definitely flattering. And hopefully you guys keep tuning in. Yeah. All right. Until next week, guys, Flying Coach. We'll have another guest or guests. We will see who it will be. But episode three is in the books. Another blast. Sean. Have a great week, dude. You too, my man. Appreciate it. Peter. Thanks, Craig. Thank you.