The Ringer NFL Show - Kyle Shanahan on Super Bowl Regrets, Trading Up for Lance, Taking the SF Job, and Coaching With His Dad | Flying Coach With Sean McVay and Peter Schrager

Episode Date: July 7, 2021

Sean and Peter are joined by San Francisco 49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan to talk about Sean and Kyle’s long-standing friendship and their time in Washington together. Shanahan also discusses growing up with an NFL head coach as a father; why he chose to take the 49ers head coaching job; the Stafford trade and playing against the Rams each year; why the 49ers chose Trey Lance; his most regrettable play calls, including moments from the 2016 Super Bowl, and more (1:13). We finish the show with some listener emails and voicemails (71:14). Follow 'Flying Coach' here on Spotify! Email Sean McVay and Peter Schrager your questions at [e-mail]. Or leave us a voicemail at (818)-253-1572‬ and it may be featured in our next episode! Hosts: Sean McVay and Peter Schrager Guest: Kyle Shanahan Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's good, everybody? I'm John G. Stremski, host to New York, New York with JJ, the first podcast on the ringer in Spotify, dedicated to you, the New York sports fan. We've got episode three nights a week, plus bonus episodes whenever news breaks. So make sure you follow the show on Spotify. Flying Coach, Season 2, Episode 8. My name is Peter Schroger. My co-host is the head coach of Los Angeles Rams, Sean McVeigh. You know, since we started this podcast, Sean, all we have heard from, are fans wanting their coaches to be on as guests. Fans of the Saints want Sean Payton. Fans of the Steelers want Mike Tomlin. But the name that has come up the most and is in our mentions the most frequently is Kyle Shanahan. Niners fans are screaming at me on Twitter.

Get Kyle Shanahan on already. Well, guess what? We got Kyle Shanahan on already and he delivers. It's maybe my favorite hour we've done. No further ado. Ladies and gentlemen, the Kyle Shanahan Hour of Flying Coach. Another amazing guest here on the Flying Coach podcast, maybe the most anticipated episode of the entire summer session.

The tweets that we get asking when we're getting this guy on that I just have to be quiet and not respond to because I know everyone wants to hear the dynamic between my co-host, Sean McVeigh and our guest today. Sean, who do we have on as the guest for this episode? Head coach of the San Francisco 49ers, Kyle Shanahan, former boss of mine who, he was hard on me. But you know what?

I got a lot better, loved working with Kyle. And, you know, really, he's had a huge influence on the way that I see the game. And Kyle is another added name to a really good guest list. But he's special. I appreciate you taking the time, Kyle. Thank you, dude. I appreciate him, man. You're already looking too much media to me, but you look way comfortable with your

headset, your microphone. I can't believe your hair is still perfect with that. headset on. It looks good. You got to blow dry that. I do use probably too much gel, but you know what? Consistency is the truest measurement of performance, as we like to say. I'm consistently throwing about half of my gel in my hair and I'm going through a lot of bottles every week. It's good. Kyle, let's go back in time. I mean, you were the offensive coordinator. Your father is the head coach of the Washington football team. It was named something different that we'll say the football team for now and they hire this precocious 20-something quality control coach who no he hired he

okay they he hired all right what did you know of sean and uh what were those first years like when he came in as a as a young assistant entering the league oh they were awesome i mean we all went out to washington together it was cool going there because it was the first time i got to work with my dad and so we go in and it was just my dad and i at first and we got to interview a bunch of coaches and as he put together a staff. And he told me a lot about Sean who had been recommended from Bruce because he had been with John for the previous couple of years. And actually, Sean, you took over for me, right?

I did. Well, Nate Hackett. Yeah, Nate Hackett. And then I came in after that. So. Yeah. In Tampa, you're saying. And what he had done for Tampa those two years because that was my exact job also.

And then John got like. go of Tampa, but I went to Tuscary with him. So I had an idea of his experience because we're working for John Grunin's one of the kind. And it's like as good as anything you could have as a young coach getting into this league, but I knew his experience

in. So Bruce sold him to my dad and my dad was telling me all about him. I'm like, oh, this would be awesome. Let's bring him in. And he came in and he even interview his boy wonder. His hair looked the exact same. Exact same. He was probably a little more jack, but not much.

always been jacked and he was exactly boy wonder he um we asked my dad asked him a football question about i think a slot package and he didn't stop talking for 45 minutes um and just went just went ham on it like just killed it from every aspect and just totally my dad was just jaw dropped like yeah this is unbelievable and i've been there so i'm like dad this is john gruden 101 he's doing it word for this is um and it was i i was laughing because I had been around John so much, and it was literally his twin, almost doing it better than himself. And my dad hadn't seen it before.

So right when we left, my dad was like, we got to get this guy. And I was pumped to get him. And he was an awesome QC for me until about week 12, I think. And then our tight coach, John Embry got a head coach job. And then we moved Sean to the tight-in roll right after that. Which for me personally, I mean, the QC is the most important guy to me. So, like, I really wanted Sean to stay my QC. QC because it was as good as it gets at it. And then you go to the tight end role. And yeah,

he was unbelievable at tight ends, but I missed out on having my quality control. And then at the end of the year, we were, you know, we interviewed other tight end coaches and stuff for, I don't know what reason. I know Jay Gruden was trying to bring Sean, I think he has his quarterback coach coordinator right away. And I didn't know how the league worked much then. So I didn't even know you could block anyone. I was just like, damn, we can't do that. And my dad blocked him. Jay Gruden texts me like, what the F, man. Like, I'm just the coordinator. I didn't block them.

And then fortunately, my dad didn't give him the job they deserved. And those four fun years together. Sean, what were the duties of a quality control coach and the people at home listening? What is that? So basically,

Kyle's assistant, you know, you're doing all the breakdowns, you're drawing the pictures. And then the cool thing about what Kyle does is he empowers you. And so if you're going to come with play suggestions and stuff like that,

he's going to make sure that you got all the answers. You've got to be buttoned up. I think this is as good a reflection as anything about Kyle. When you look at who have been QCs for Kyle Shanahan, because there's a lot of guys, you know, the connection between Kyle and myself was working for John. But when you look at the coaches that have worked for Kyle, Matt Lafleur, myself, Mike McDaniel, Matt and Mike Lafleur, those have been really the last four quality control coaches that have worked under him. And really, you learn to see the game through a totally different lens. You know, I'm not, I've, I've said this on multiple occasions. I mean, this guy, he sees it, he sees the game different than,

you know, anybody, really, like a lot of people, because he's so smart, he understands all 22, but basically your his assistant, Peter, and I give you some great, give you a great story that Kyle will remember that I truly could not have the perspective on now, now that I'm calling plays and things like that. So early on, all right, in the season, we go to Philly, all right? And I'm responsible for the call sheet. And as a play caller, you know, Kyle and I've kind of taken on the same kind of rhythm and routine that he does. You know, you make all your notes on the play sheet. But, you know, you're really particular and specific about it.

But when it's going to be a potentially a rainy game, you know, he and I are both guys that like to write on the play sheet. And so, hey, if it's going to be a rainy game, you got to laminate the call sheet. Okay. So we're in Philly like week four. All right. Well, hey, nobody gave me the memo. Matt was the quality control coach before. They just said, hey, you got to laminate Kyle's call sheet before if there's a threat for rain.

Well, what he didn't tell me was make a copy of the original, laminate the extra copy. And so then if it does rain, then you got the equipment guy. Hey, here you go. We're ready to deal. And so it's supposed to rain. So I said, Kyle, give me that call sheet. I'm going to laminate this thing. And he's already assuming that, hey, I'm going to laminate it, but I'm also going to have made another copy of it.

So we get up to the booth and the rain has now stopped. All right. And so me and Matt were right next to each other. And Kyle says, hey, where's my original call sheet? I know this is the copy that's laminated. And I said, what the hell are you talking about, man? He says, you've got to be. And Matt's looking at me like, oh, my God, you forgot to make a copy of the call sheet.

And so Kyle is pissed. And I would be so pissed too. And I said, hey, you know, I don't know what to tell you. It's about to kick off. And that's the only copy you got big boy that's fully laminated. And Matt's just looking at me. And Kyle was ready to kill me. And there was many stories like that.

But Kyle, how pissed were you at me at that point right there? And it's like, it's so pissed. And Sean was a hard guy to get mad at because he is boy wonder. And the guy's only messed up like a few times in his life. probably until this point. Like he, like Mr. where, Mr. Georgia football.

Get out of here. Player, like can do everything. Like he's, you know, John Gruden, everyone talked him up right away. And he's really only impressed people. And he can see on my face that he just like broke my heart. That was it.

And Sean doesn't want to accept it. Like he's just like, you got to go, man. You got to go. And then I thought I was the best QC ever. Matt LaFleur thought he was the best QC ever. And then Sean's thinking he is. So there's a line of all three of us who have done it within the previous six years.

And we're just sitting there just shaking our head at each other for not being as one was. And Matt's up there, like, I can't believe you did that. And I'm down there's like, I would never do this. And Sean, you guys are messed up, man. You just got to deal with it. I'm like, hey, we got to move on, man. How about how many times, Kyle, would you have to? So Matt and I, that's funny that he mentions that, though, Peter, because one of the main

responsibilities during games, if you're going to be up top and you're communicating down to Kyle, it's like, hey, we're kind of collaborating on, hey, what did you see coverage wise? What did you see? Was this a pressure? Whatever. And I can't tell you how many times there would be. Kyle would have to tell, hey, you two up there, quit arguing and just answer the coverage concept.

Answer the coverage questions. We're all young. We're all competitive. And we're all kind of dicks. But we're all really good friends, too. So it's just like this dynamic. And then you have first around the staff. You have Bobby Turner.

You have my dad who just think we're all kind of messed up a little bit. But they also know we're good at what we're doing. So like it's just this unique show. And every game like Matt and Sean the way they've compete to get the coverage right. Like I would remember I'm trying to call play in the second half. And they're bickering about something. And I can't. Like what are you two talking about?

They'd be like, that was a zone dog in the second quarter. No, it was a man pressure. No, I'm like, I don't give a shit. What it was? Like, what's the down and distance? And so it was always like that. And if I would ever hesitate on a play call, Sean just how word he is and articulate.

And he would just spin it out real fast and be like, God damn it, Sean. I'm just thinking about changing my mind. I'm not struggling with the play. Settle down. I was so annoying. Oh, my God, this is exhausting. but we were like that to each other for four straight years and I know it helped all of us.

Yeah, it really did. I mean, there was a standard. And, you know, we had a, it was a healthy competitiveness though, Peter. And, and, you know, it started with Kyle where the way that he worked at it. And I think, you know, we can all attest to this. And he talks about it a lot if you listen to this stuff, whether it's growing up around the game, the things that you don't realize you subconsciously pick up with the way that his dad would operate. And then when you went to Tampa, I think the one thing that he always talked about to me that had a huge influence on how I approach things is, yeah, hey, you want to know offense and be an expert.

But then make sure you spend some time understanding the other side of the ball and being around guys like Monty Kiffin, Rod Marnelli, Mike Tomlin, Rahim Morris, Joe Berries. I mean, he sat in those meetings and he always told me how instrumental that was in his growth and development. and I think that's why you see how successful he is and the way that he sees the game is very different than a lot of people. And that's where he rightfully gets all the credit that comes his way on that front. Kyle, I think it is kind of cool that you know,

you're Mike Shanahan's son, who's one of the greatest offensive coaches of all time, one of the greatest head coaches of all time too. But I look at your resume. You spent time with Kubiak. You spent time with Gruden. You made it almost deliberate to not just go and work for your father

and do it that way. You wanted to get experiences outside, of just working for your pops until you were already well down the line of your coaching career when you joined them there. Was that by intentional design to say, hey, I need to learn from other people and I don't want to be labeled as just the coach's son? Yeah, I mean, I think so. I think growing up with coach's son and, you know, my dad wasn't a head coach until I was in high

school. You know, after my freshman year, my dad became a head coach. And my senior in high school, the Broncos won the Super Bowl. So, like, I mean, I remember making the basketball. team as a sophomore year and going into the cafeteria and every guy who didn't make it just sitting there just saying I only made it because of my dad and stuff like that. So I always kind of had that chip on my shoulder. And that's how it was for me trying to play in college and just stuff like that. And I always wanted to prove to people I could do it. And then it was always harder though

playing. And then when I got into the coaching tree, it was a lot easier. I felt a little more talented at it and stuff as opposed to playing. And then just I remember telling my dad like, because I'm close to my dad, and I always respected them so much, how badly I didn't want to coach with them. But I remember him saying to me, like, hey, Kyle, if you ever want to coach with me, it doesn't matter how good you are. You got to go pay your dues and do it with other people or players and stuff won't respect you. And so that really stuck with me was my biggest thing trying to, you know, I went to UCLA at first and went to Tampa, then to Houston. And it was when my dad got fired, that threw me off so much.

I didn't expect him to get fired from Denver. And when he did, I was like, all right, I've been a coordinator. I've been in this league for six years now. And if he ever comes back, I'm going to coach with him because it's more than just that. And when he came back to Washington, I didn't expect to be a year later. But it was a year later. And then I committed to it. And lots of tough times in Washington, it wasn't all fun.

But like, nothing I would ever take back. Like, it helped my career so much. It helped my relationship with my dad. It wasn't always good just because we were going through tough times. But when you go through tough times with people, it makes you show. stronger. And that's what was cool about it. And I like to say, we weathered the storm. I was always a little more bitter about it than my dad, just because you're so passionate and about your family and stuff. And I just felt like that was towards the end of my dad's career. And I hated that it

ended that way. But now when I look back on it, it was kind of cool how it happened. Like he started, and my dad gave me a huge opportunity. He gave Sean one. He gave him, he gave LaFleurre one, McDaniel, like all these people. And it was a cool starting to where, you know, we only had one winning year there. But all four years, I think were huge on my career. I know they were on Shons. And we learned a ton while we were there. Yeah, no, that perspective is everything.

That's the one thing, Peter, that Kyle's talking about that I think the further you step away from it, the more you can appreciate it. Because, you know, where he's coming from is that, hey, this is my dad who has a legacy, he's a Hall of Fame coach. And you're going to do everything you can to. continue to help him establish, maintain, and continue to build on that. And because Kyle, I mean, they were one of the top offenses in the league for a couple years when he's coming off, calling plays for Houston.

Sure. He had the pick of his litter in terms of other opportunities, but he comes there with his dad. And I think that those experiences that we had when you start to build it, then you end up having to totally change the narrative on how you want to operate philosophically, but you're figuring it out. You figure out a way to, you know, basically lead the league in rushing, totally. change the approach. I mean, there's a lot of things that Kyle and his dad did and that we collectively did as a staff that those experiences, we all draw on it. When you watch our tape and stuff, you're still pulling from those things. And I know for me personally, the last

couple years, especially when we're in these roles, Kyle, that we both have probably a totally different perspective is the tough times are really when people separate themselves. And you've always said that for a long time. And I think that's what's beginning to become more and more obvious to me is that that's what the really good ones do. And that's why, you know, when we've talked over the years at navigating through, whether it's injuries or what we did in Washington, those things, you wouldn't change it because that's what shapes the perspective and where we are today. And God, man, there was a lot of good times that we had there, even though we didn't always get the results we wanted. But I know we got a lot better as coaches collectively. That's for sure. No, it was cool

having all us together. And you think, like, it was a good balance of both, like I was saying earlier with the older and the young, and it's a young arrogance that kind of pushes each other and stuff. But then you got those older guys who have been through it all who are directing us a little bit. And I think it made us all so much better. And I look at so many coaches in the league now. And that's what helped me so much, though, because like, you know, my first two years as a coordinator in Houston, we had so much success, at least numbers-wise. We didn't make the playoffs.

But our offense had done really well. And you think of what affects you personally and your family and stuff. You're like, all right, I can do this. And then you go to other situations. and you're like, oh my God, why doesn't this work the exact same way? And you get thrown into that and you have to adjust. And that's where I feel like going for me, from Houston to Washington, how different every one of those years were.

I mean, our offenses would have to change every year based off who our quarterback was. And then when I left to go to Cleveland, which is totally different, then Atlanta was just totally different. And my years in San Francisco have been totally different. But when you go through some of that stuff, you realize, like, you don't need to label anything, whether it was good or bad. Like, it's just an experience.

And do you want to coach or do you or not? And that's what was hard when you're younger. Like, you expect it to all be good. And you're like, oh, my God, this is. Then I'm looking to my dad's legacy, stuff like that, stuff that used to mean a lot to me growing up. And then you get into it. And you're like, oh, my God, that stuff can all be ruined.

Okay, there's a whole other reason why I want to do this. It isn't about that. It's actually, because that sucks. And I'm actually stressed about that. Well, let me just let that go. All right. I really actually love football. I actually like coaching, and I do want to adjust and figure this stuff out,

and hopefully it'll work out for me. And if it doesn't, you live with it. But like it took me, I had to go to Washington. I feel like that took my ego out of the game. And for better or for worse, growing up with a dad who had been fired, who had moved a lot and always believe in my dad. And then finally him went into Super Bowl, my senior year in high school, and my freshman year in college, and I'm like,

see, I knew he was the man. Like, everyone pleased about their dad, but it came true to me. And then, like, to lose that, like to see him struggle in Washington was just like, oh, it was hard of me. And then after a few years, I'm like, you know what, it's not that hard of me. That's actually not why I want to do this. Like, I know my dad was, man, regardless of what happens. I just want to get as good as I can.

And hopefully it provides a life for my family that it did for me. And hopefully I go through some cool experiences that a lot of people wish they could, that I'm going to make sure I enjoy it. That's such a good perspective. Sean, we'll talk about the actual stuff, but like, you've always said it, that you lost the Super Bowl and it still haunts you and all the stuff, but like almost you would never give that experience way for anything. It's almost similar to what Kyle's saying that, hey, you think that you're doing it for one thing, but then you realize along the way that there's other drivers too, and a lot of it's just a joy of the game. Yeah, and I'll tell you what, though, too, and Kyle and I have talked a lot about this. And, you know, one of the things that, and it's just with respect, and we both are competitors and things like that.

but when we get a chance to connect, whether it's at the combine or even just talking ball, you can always appreciate that. But there's a real piece that comes with when you really do get to that place where you're saying, you know what, I am secure enough with myself to not worry about the outside and approach. And getting to that, you know, because like I'll say it and you're saying, all right, you're aware of it, but actually getting to that place where when you're in the midst of it, you can really live the things that you're saying, I've witnessed him do that. And I don't think that I truly appreciated until you go.

go through some of the scars that this job gives everybody where you can handle it the right way and get the right perspective and really know that, hey, man, it's about the people that care about you unconditionally. It's about living your life with the values that you want and being at peace with knowing like, hey, man, I'm going to do the best I can and I'm not going to worry about all the other things that sometimes are out of our control. And it's one thing to say it. It's another thing to live it. And like Kyle's been doing that for a long time now. but those are the things that he would always talk to me about, even in Washington when we were going through some things,

and then when we've kept in touch over the years, that you can feel it's real. Like, that's the thing that really stands out to me that everybody will say about Kyle. You know, he gets all this credit, and rightfully so for being such an amazing mind of the game. But when you really listen to the Richard Sherman's, the Trent Williams, the guys that really know what it's about,

the Robert Salas, you know, they talk about the consistent, authentic, you know, approach of being able to tell guys, hey, I'm going to keep it real with you and I'm going to push you because I care about you. And I think that's a tremendous quality that is something that, you know, he does a great job of. And I really, I respect the heck out of it. I'll go back to Kyle. Now, you're this incredible offensive coordinator in Atlanta and all these different teams are talking about you being a head coach. And San Francisco is coming off a situation where I think it went Harbaugh, Tom Sulla, Chip Kelly, here, here, year, year.

They've blew out the front office. They've got to hire a new GM. You decide you want to be the head coach of the San Francisco 49ers. Why did that job appeal to you? And what was the situation with you and John Lynch, who I've shared on this podcast before? I was on the broadcast team with Lynch that week in Atlanta where it was Kevin Burkart, John Lynch and myself for a playoff game, Seahawks versus Falcons in Atlanta. And I had no. idea what was going on behind the scenes while that was all going down. No, it was an interesting time. And I mean, San Francisco wasn't my first choice on paper, like before it.

Like, it wasn't, I had four interviews, and it was during the playoffs. And it's those, you get two weeks to prepare. And then you get two days off as a coaching staff. And those two days are really to see your family and stuff because you're in this grind that's not going to end. And I ended up doing it with, um, and we were having a snow. storm in Atlanta so it was crazy. So I had to post up in this apartment building that's by Flowery Branch and just

waiting for these interviews. And I almost canceled one just because I was so exhausted. And I almost did. I almost canceled San Francisco. Wow. And the reason being it had nothing to do with San Francisco was just my, my whole goal, my goal in life is to be a head coach and stay a head coach. It wasn't just to become one and say I got there.

And so I, watching my dad's career, watching stuff that. that I thought was important, you know, I was never going to go anywhere without an established quarterback where we knew that was the plan. And that's what I felt like no matter what, because you never know how an organization is until you get in there until you go through some tough times. And if you have a good quarterback, one of those top five guys, then you can survive anything. So that was always my goal, is to wait until I had a good enough year and got an opportunity with that. And so I don't want to be tempted on anything wrong. I mean, you get so excited for the chance to be a head coach that a lot of guys will accept anything, which I just had learned.

And I'd watch my dad the hard way. Like, that's not what my goal was. And so when I looked at San Francisco, I was nervous because they didn't have that set up and they had changed coaches three years in a row. And, you know, their offense was ranked 31st. Their defense was ranked 32nd. It wasn't the best situation. But when I sat there, you know, I had just interviewed, I did Jacksonville, just finished Jacksonville. I needed to take, and I was setting all the stuff up for my Denver interview that was going to be Saturday morning and took me about an hour. And I had about 30 minutes before Jed and Prague were going to get there. So I went and lay down in this bed and I fell asleep.

And I was going to give myself 10 minutes to wake up, put my suit back on and just be ready because I needed all the sleep. And I heard their door shut from outside my thing. They were downstairs and I'm just in my boxers in bed with my hair all messed up. luckily I'm on the third floor so I get to have to walk up like I soak my hair put put my suit on as they're banging on the door I'm trying to fix my tie and I just open it up and I'm just like all right let's go and we do the interview and it was just so it was so real like there was nothing that I wasn't like trying so hard to get the job they were trying hard to sell me we were just talking and I told them all the issues I thought that there was and stuff I was worried about Jed told me where he's he thought they were where he wanted to be. We talked a lot about, we had a connection because, you know, my dad was a coach there when his uncle was the owner.

And, you know, I was a ballboy there from sixth grade and ninth grade. And last time I was with the Niners is when Steve Young won the Super Bowl. And I was always the ball way there. And I always remember my dad, that based everything with his three years of the Niners was everything that he based his philosophy off with the Broncos. That's why he turned down the job when Pat offered him to him

after two years. And he said no, because he didn't think Pat was quite ready. He didn't want to have guys have their own room on the road. He didn't want to bring in and pay for breakfast, dinner and lunch. He just didn't want to do it like the Niners did, who just did it so first class. And then, you know, I think he ended up hiring Wade. They had two years and then Pat King and my dad and offered him, say, I want to do it the exact same way as the Niners. I want it first class. Like, we want to take care of these players. And he went. And that's all I learned. So to hear all this stuff from Jed telling me all the stuff that my dad told me growing up like why the Niners are like the Niners, why the Yankees are like the Yankees, what a difference between the first

class organization is and everyone else. How there's only about five teams in the league, and this changes year to year, but this is what he told me growing up, that are actually really trying to win. And that's all that matters is winning. Other people are just trying to survive. And that's what he learned with the Niners. And to hear that from Jed, and for me to say all the problems I had and what I didn't like about the job and to watch it not phase him and to actually make us connect more. It was awesome. And I remember going home that night and my wife asked me which one I liked the most. I'm like, actually, the Niners is the only one I really feel good about. And it shocked her because you know how I talked the morning before. Yeah. She's like, what about

what about quarterback? What about the players? What about the where are we at? I'm like, yeah, that's probably what I said. But I believe in the people. I believed in Jed. I believed in, meaning with Parag. And I said everything that I believe in. And it almost looked like it inspired them. It didn't turn them off. So let's see. And I remember telling our agent, my agent at the time, what I wanted for the job.

And I had like five things. But I wanted to make sure that I was able to help decide on the GM. I was able to get a certain amount of years just so everything that they told me was actually on paper too. Like it wasn't, I couldn't get tricked because you don't. known people at the time. Of course. And so, and my agent, I remember saying to me, like, well, you're not going to get all that. Um, that's, you're not going to get that. And I was just like, well, no, that's what you think. Yeah, if I can't get that, it's not a good job. So I don't want it

if it's not that. And then he called back five minutes later, laughing. He's like, oh, my God, Jed said it was cool. And I was like, that's why it's a good job. That's why I got to take this. And that's why I did. And it took some time and we were able to get Jimmy in. We were able to build our team the right way. I know he's had some of the things the last couple of years, but we got there and we did it the right way. And I think it's totally because of everything Jed told me before I accepted the job has been the exact same ever since and even stronger. How did you get Lynch to come out of the booth and join you? I didn't. He called me. And that was as random as could be because everyone thinks lunch and I had this huge relationship. We didn't.

Yeah. You know, I got to Tampa Bay like two weeks before they had decided they were going to move on from him. So I was there at Tampa, but he was never coming in the building. And they actually, he ended up signing with my dad's team. So my dad got to know him for the, I think they were together two years. But we didn't really know each other that well, just mutual friends. And we were all, he would do my games a lot. So we would talk exos and oaths. And I, I want to say he would know better. I don't know if it was the week before the Seattle game or the week after. But he called me on like a Monday and where he texted me. It was like, hey, I got a couple things to run by you. No big deal. Hit me up whenever. And as you kind of know, Sean knows, like, I'm not the best

with that stuff. Hit me up whenever. It might mean three years later. Eventually, it'll stress me out, but I just don't keep up with it that well. And I remember, like, getting home Friday from work, my family was in town, one of my buddies from high school. And I was just trying to spend my Friday afternoon, because that's the only time you kind of get in the season. And I remember hanging out of them was like, oh, man, I still haven't called Lynch back. I don't know what he wants. Let me go upstairs and call him. I'll come back down. And I went up and talked to him.

He's like, Kyle, I know this is crazy. I just been having a passion about this since I've been working with John and going to sitting on some of the Denver's drafts and everything. Like, I love football and I can't stand when I'm done with a game. No matter how fun it was and it feels good, that I just sit there and pound Kevin. And that's it. And then I just go home. He's like, I need to work with a team and go through something.

and hopefully we accomplished something, but I need that feeling. And it's just everything he was saying, which he would describe better than I am now, the intentions of why he wanted to be a GM. Everything was just so, so exactly what I wanted. And then you take it, you take it a part of it.

I mean, he's John Lynch. He's, he's Captain America in real life. I mean, he's such an honest dude, such a good football player, a Hall of Fame career. What type of guy is that nice who's like the most violent player ever? Like that is very unique.

He's also a Stanford guy. He's much better remember names and being polished up than I am. So like he can do all that. And he wanted to do it for the right reasons. And I knew I was going into a spot where I didn't know everybody. I knew we had a lot of work to do. And I knew I wanted to go through with someone. But I knew it had to be, if I'm going to go through that with someone,

it has to be someone I trust. And even though I wasn't with John a lot, I could trust his reasons. why he wanted to be a GM, why he was getting into it. And that's why I can try, anytime he says something, I trust it. It's never to get an advantage in this league. It's never to, like, protect himself. It's never to be famous. He got into it because his goal is to win a Super Bowl and to build a team the right way.

And that's why he's doing it. And he'll do that until he gets it. And if not, he'll go back to whatever he was doing before, which was a hell of a lot better. But that's why that's the guy I want to go to war with. that's why I was pumped when it came out of nowhere. It's funny because listening to this, Peter and Kyle will remember this. You know, even going back, you talk about another connection is so when Coach Shanahan was in San Francisco for those years, well, he developed a really good relationship with my grandfather, John McVeigh.

And my grandfather had so much loyalty to the organization. But because he thought thought so highly of Mike Shanahan, there was a part of him that thought maybe I'm going to go to Denver with Mike Shanahan. when he took that job because they saw it through such a similar lens. And he ended up staying in San Francisco. But all the core things that Kyle's building that program on, a lot of the things that I think we stand for, it's amazing how much influence that has on us and how many, you realize what a small network of people it really is. Because that's really why I got a chance to interview with Mike and Kyle was Bruce Allen

brought my name up. But then also when my grandfather reached out to. to coach Shanahan. He said, hey, I got a grandson. And if nothing else, you know, he said, hey, well, if he's like yours, if you're like him, we'll go ahead and bring him in and let him compete for a job. But like the amount of just layers and the different connections that we have, it's, it's pretty eerie. And it sounds like, I asked for those things from the Niners, too. And they didn't say yes to that, Kyle. What the hell? No, I'm just kidding. You know what's funny, though, Peter is, is Kyle. He, you know, they had done.

done such a good job in Atlanta. And, you know, this has been publicized or whatever. But in a lot of instances, you almost get punished for doing well in the playoffs nowadays. It's true. And, you know, and it's like the further you go because of the way that it's kind of structured. The last seat at the carousel almost. Well, yeah, it's crazy because, like, I actually got some advantages because we lost

and basically a play in game our last regular season game. And so when you get hired, while Kyle, it was semantics where he kind of knew he was going to be the Niners head coach, but you couldn't. officially announced it and he's focused on winning a Super Bowl. Well, in the meantime, what are we doing? We're putting together a staff. We're doing some things. You're getting a chance to get, you know, access to coaches that are looking for jobs. And it's amazing how that kind of played out where we both went through it at the same time. But you realize, like, the success that they had in Atlanta and when he's doing his thing, it actually forces you to kind of start, you know, a little bit behind

everybody. I saw the same thing with Zach Taylor a couple years ago in Cincinnati. And, But to Kyle's credit, you know, Sam Fran, that was their guy. They knew they wanted them. And he knew exactly what he wanted to. And I think you see that thing come to life with the vision and why the ball's been right in San Fran. The whole process is miserable and tough. I mean, I went into it very open having four interviews. And I, because I grew up around the spin and watched my dad and I just, I knew I was so

adamant that I wanted to take the wrong job. and I'm just so glad that I felt that way about San Francisco and they felt that way about me. But if not, I mean, it's not like the other three teams then offer me. So if San Francisco won't have, or if I wanted to have felt that way, I wouldn't have gotten a job. And who knows what happens to next year, you know, so that's why it's a tough league. And that's why a lot of people, you know, as soon as you get that opportunity, sometimes you never want to look back because that opportunity doesn't always come again. But I also, there's a very fine line.

That opportunity comes and you're in a bad situation. and it might only be one year and just because of that, you'll never get it again. So that's why I watched guys go to the same stuff. And I watched my dad go through it and work out. And I watched it not work out in Washington. And that's some of the stuff I've learned that kind of have so much respect for coaches and people like my dad, people like Billichick, people like Sean. But you've got to realize that they're also fortunate. Like not everything's going to play out that way always.

And you've got to believe in yourself. You've got to believe in the people around you. but you can't just be obsessed with the results. Yes, all I think about is winning a Super Bowl. And trust me, I don't need to sit here and tell you how much that eats of me. But you also can't make decisions just chasing that because the business isn't just guaranteed. It's a team sport. There's 53 people on the team.

There's 22 moving objects. And there's a lot of variables. What did you think when you saw that we traded for Stafford? You don't want to get me started, dude. That was frustrating. I was actually, I was in Cabo. I was watching it all. I had never studied Stafford that hard.

So wait, you were actually in Cabo when we were down in Cabo? Oh, yeah. At the wrong hotel, Colin. So, hey, I'm just glad he wasn't staying at El Dorado. I remember looking through it because everyone was telling me it was a possibility. And Stafford is the man. I studied him hard coming out of college. And he always just played against him.

So you know how good he is. but to know he might be available and to spend two weeks and really watching him, Sean, yeah, he's better than I'd realize. I mean, he was the man and he's actually underrated to me. So I know how good of a guy you got. I know how good he is at play action. I know how smart he is. Not only does he just have a big arm,

but he's got touched and he knows where to go with the ball. So I was trying to get involved in it. Someone who had knowledge on this situation. I remember I was talking to Condon to everyone to find out when it was happening. And I remember Saturday, I was so stressed out. And finally, we talked to someone. It was like seven a night. And they're like, no, nothing's happening at the earliest till tomorrow.

So you can finish your night. So I'm like, all right, I'm done. Put my phone down. Talk to Mandy. I'm like, all right, let's go out to dinner. Let's have some drinks. A half an hour later, my buddy calls me. He's like, I'm just telling you, if you want Stafford, you need to get a hold of him right now.

Yep. I'm like, what do you mean? I was like, no, we just talk to people. like I can sleep on this. We'll talk to him tomorrow. I'm just telling you, you need to talk to him right now. And it totally, I knew it.

And then I 10 minutes later, it was all over. It was fun. Hey, if it makes you feel any better, it came together faster than I thought too, Kyle. Well, the fact I was in Cabo, man, like, I would have been there and I would have made it really awkward

on you two to enjoy it. I would have, you would have had to tell me to leave. Sean, what was your reaction when, I guess it was Halloween week, a couple years ago, it comes out that they get Jimmy Garoppolo for a second round pick, and your NFC West rival

suddenly went from having a questionable quarterback situation for a year and a half to having a guy who's been learning under Tom Brady for all these years. I think the difference in that situation... We were 0 and 9 at the time. Sean didn't give a damn.

Well, once I started seeing what you guys looked like with him at the switch and you called plays, I thought, oh, boy. But you know what, it's funny, Kyle, So, because, you know, so much, this is the one thing, Peter that, and Kyle and I have talked so much about it is there's a commitment to a philosophy, you know, because like everybody wants to talk about, oh, marrying the run in the past. But like, are you really committed to a system and then having some agility within that system, week in and week out? And they've definitely done such a good job of this. And we talked to, we talked to Troy Aikman about this, Kyle. And I'd be interested to get your perspective because you obviously have thought about this stuff a lot and so much of what we've talked about is influenced the way that, you know, that I see the game and people I've been around. Like, if you were to say at just the quarterback position in general, because a lot of the things

you're talking about with Matthew, I felt the same way. Like, I've heard you say this before. Like at some point, you're going to have to drop back, exhaust the progression, navigate a rush, understand how to straighten up problems. And I think that's one of the things that separates. That's one of the things Matthew does a lot better than I even realized being able to change his arm slot to touch, the things like that. Like, if you were to say, all right, these are the things that really separate it, even though there's different genres of guys playing at a high level. Like, what is it, what is that in your mind, you know, from the quarterback position in particular? And there's so much that goes into it.

That's why it's so hard to evaluate because, like, he and you don't want to lose people with the words you say. Like, I'd love to say, yeah, you got to be smart. You got to be able to process it. But I also know, man, if you go in there and you try to think about stuff, you have no chance to play. You got to be in the zone. You got to be, have a clear mind. you got to have a low blood pressure or heart rate to really just play the right way. That's to me, like, when you watch guys like Kobe, you watch guys like Dirk, like they just,

they get in that zone and you watch quarterbacks, like you can't get too high or too low. And that's the hard thing that you can't really test with how people talk. The biggest thing, you got to have the right arm. Like if you can't make the throws in this league, it'll catch up with you. And there's different variants of that. Like, yeah, you can have the strongest arm. the world, but guys who have the strongest arm, usually don't throw with anticipation because they never had to. But how strong is it? You know, Elway didn't throw with as good of anticipation

as some people, but he had one of the strongest arms ever, so he didn't need to. He could just sit and wait until it got in. My biggest thing with guys is, can you play in that pocket and keep your eyes down the field? And that's really hard for a lot of guys who've been running around their whole life. I mean, I played quarterback my whole life until my freshman year in high school. And when I played quarterback, and I'm not the best athlete, but on my Pop Warner teams, I feel like I was one of the better ones. And when I got back on a pass, I was running around out of that pocket, trying to turn it in and off schedule play like most people I saw. And then you get people like Peyton Manning, probably Tom Brady. I could be wrong, but I don't feel like they ever

ran around. I just feel like they sat in that pocket at every age and learn how to get rid of it and make plays and just dissect people. And so they have that advantage. And then you got people who've never played that way because they haven't had to because they're good athletes who could run around and when Heismans over it. And then a fellow, you can do it also. But you got to learn the other part too and how you balance that off. So like I can go so many different directions with the quarterback. But if you don't bring in the running part and the running element of it, you got to be one of those rare people who can sit in the pocket, keep your eyes down field and not let that rush affect you. And the way you don't do that is you're either smart.

art and it comes fast to you or you're smart enough to where you can work, study the playbook, you're automatic where everyone's going to be. You could do it in a dark realm. You could do it at any moment without hesitating. And that's when you got people. That's Drew Brees to me. Like zero hesitation, no thought, just you're blinking and going. And what is that? Is that intelligence? Is it preparation? It's a little bit of everything. Yeah. Yeah. No, and that's, that's where like what he's talking about because, I mean, you can just, see the depth of the thought process and things like that. But what's so interesting too, Kyle, for both of us is the experiences we've had because

everybody, I got a kick out of it too, watching from afar how everybody ran with the narrative of what they thought you were looking for because of going back to Kirk and things like that. But there's different ways of doing elite things at this league at a different level. But ultimately, at some point, you're winning from the pocket. And it might look different based on the way that Mahomes is winning than a pocket compared to Tom Brady, but they're both playing at an elite level. And I think that's what's so hard to categorize.

And then, oh, by the way, a lot of the stuff that we learned, even, and I know we knew it before, but going back to just some of the stuff that we had so much success with when you're running the show in Washington and you're changing the math, where now, okay, they're used to playing defense where it's 11 on 10. They never have to account for the quarterback. And then if we can change the math in those ways, that's an even bigger winning edge. but at some point there's going to be those third down crunch time decisions. And I've heard you talk about that.

And that's why I bring that up because it's the depth of the conversations can go on and on. But when you're really looking at it, it's like, all right, how do you envision these guys fitting in with already what you have in place? And I think that's why you hear you're excited about your guy and why you've also said, hey, you know, it doesn't mean that's exclusively how you have to win because look at what you've done with Jimmy or other quarterbacks that you played with. and the good coaches figure it out like what you've done.

No, and it's every, that's what's crazy about a sport in comes to coaches too, but whether it's Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Philip Rivers, Rathlisberger, like all these guys, Russell Wilson, like Aaron Rogers,

like every one of them in the way they win and the way they're great is slightly different. And you're going to be, you're going to be judged off of, yeah, you can be thrown in those people with the stats and how many games you want over your career. And they're going to always be at the top

who won the most Super Bowls. And then you go back to Elway, Young, Montana, Aikman. Like, they're all different. And that's what's crazy about the sport because when you're the quarterback, when you're the head coach, or you're going to be judged at the end of the day on your Super Bowl wins. But that doesn't tell the whole story. That means you are a bad dude who is in a very small percentage of these

quarterbacks, I'm saying, who also was on the right team. And there's, it's too hard to say who's, you're splitting hairs on who, who's this or who's that because they're all great. And it's just people don't get how hard it is to do, just those names I mentioned. And the stuff that goes into it. And there's so, I might be lesser in this way and stronger in another way

than how do you overcompensate that. And there's so many ways to do it, whether it's with your legs, whether it's with your preparation, your arm, it doesn't matter. It's infinite. Kyle, you know,

you talked about, or Sean talked about everyone thought you were taking one guy based on your success with cousins. I was one of them. I was one of the many that were out there saying, oh, it's Mac Jones, it's Mac Jones, it's Mac Jones. You and I would text, but I never get anything from you anyway. But I thought I had a pretty good read on this thing, honestly, knowing all the people in the organization and candidly, for the listeners this podcast, I used to work with John Lynch, I'm friendly with Jed York.

I know Kyle well enough where he shoots me straight for the most part. And I wasn't one of the guys saying, oh, it's definitely going to be Mac Jones. I just thought reading the tea leaves, it would be. And then it is T-Lance. looking back at it now several months removed were you even paying attention to it all the media people because it wasn't just me Chris Sims you've known since college and he was saying it was going to be Mac Jones

like at any point where you're like wow we really got everybody on this one or does that stuff so secondary to your thinking that who gives a shit what the media guys are saying and if he says no he's lying he knew he had everybody until it was set in stone and when I could sit back and be like I'm not changing and I could actually watch that's when I was like holy cow this.

has gotten out of control. But like when you have, the reason we moved up is because we felt, I think either one would have been a good decision. Like you're not moving up if you don't feel good about both of those. And if it would have just been one, then we would have said, no,

well, we probably wouldn't have said because it's still risky. But we would like, we really would have, either one of those players would have been a great pick in my opinion. And I, and the third guy with Justin, like he would have been a great pick.

Sure. So it's just what direction do you want to go? And there's so many things that. I play into it. You got to make that decision, but I didn't, I didn't blame people at all for thinking it would be Mac Jones, because Mac Jones deserves that.

Like, he's that good of a player, and he put it on tape for a whole year, and everyone did want to relate me to Kirk and stuff, because that's the only guy that I was openly going for as their free agent, so people talk about him. But, Trey brought another element,

and it doesn't mean that he's better or worse. It just means he brought another element that over the course of us studying it really intrigued us. And that's a direction that I, I would love to go and would always have wanted to go. But the guy's got to be able to do it all. And Trey sold us that he could. And that's why I'm excited to work with them.

And it's up to us to get him to do it. Sean, I'm sitting there on Good Morning Football. And I'm like, here's the deal with Mack Jones. He's a tennis family. And the tennis family, the pocket presence, the footwork, everyone's like, Schrager knows something. He wouldn't be doing this big Mac Jones tennis analogy. I'm like, I honestly don't know anything.

I don't know who they're taking. And it turns out I was completely wrong anyway. So I appreciate it. your job, though, because your analysis were right on and they were awesome. They were accurate. So is your job to be good and know what you're talking about or to predict the future? It's a great point. It's a great point. And that's what I, you know, you're right. It's like, who cares what I had in a mock draft? It's, did I present the case and did everyone present the case? And I think at the end of the day, everyone gets so caught up with like, who got what right,

but who gives us shit about a mock draft at the end of the day? That's what I like when I watch people in your line of work. I like to watch guys who just think about it. and really think of what makes sense based off what they believe, based off the history of someone they're studying. And that's what I feel like you do. What sucks is then people judge you because you're wrong. Is your job to be sneaky and get all the scoop on everyone? Or is your job to study stuff and just give an expert opinion?

I appreciate that. And that's where you don't want to get caught up between the two because there are some on one side and some of the other. You can go both ways. And I don't know. I respect one a lot more than another. I appreciate that, Kyle. Well, no, you know, it's funny, though, because I didn't see it, you know, we weren't

in the quarterback market, obviously, in the draft, so I didn't study a lot, but I had blinked, you know, Alabama's film enough to see Mack Jones where, hey, he's not watching the rush. He's keeping his eyes down the field. He's a natural thrower with his base, balanced, body position. You see a lot of the things that, you know, you're trained when you're in Washington saying, man, I see a lot of the things. And then the system that they're running, there's a lot of concept carryover. so it's an easier evaluation and projection.

So, like, people ask me, they're like, does the Mack Jones thing make sense? I said, yeah. And here's the one thing that I've always respected so much about Coach Shanahan and Kyle is that there's the work that goes in. And so there's conviction in their core beliefs, whether or not that's the narrative outside or whatever is the, you know, the appropriate or what should be the response. I thought there was a possibility that Kyle was going to go pits at three. and say, you know what?

No, in all seriousness, because he's such a visionary. I'm telling you, I didn't think it was going to be a crazy thought because you go back to when New England had the two tight ends set and they were doing things totally different. You think about what kiddle. And then, you know, the thing that makes sense is that, hey, Jimmy's produced all the way. This isn't a production thing. This is an availability thing that you're saying, all right, we can't have that,

like all the things. But I was like, you know, if it's not Mack Jones, and I hadn't studied trade just because there wasn't a lot of film exposure going back a couple years and we weren't in that market. So I didn't know other than watching him throw it as Pro Day that you're saying like, all right, you can see a lot of the things that you would like and that would make sense. But I just don't know. Can I interject here? Because the number four pick was Atlanta, I could tell you from sources there. Until the pick was in, they thought there was a chance that San Francisco was taking Kyle Pitts too. And I see by Kyle,

he thought about it too, man. Don't let him tell you otherwise. He's being quiet, isn't it? No, I'm kidding. But it was, but those are the things that you're saying, man, I don't know, but it's a refreshing take that they have where, hey, it's like Kyle's going to do the work and he's not really worried about the outside in narrative. And I'm going to make a decision that's best on the preparation, the work that goes in. And that's been a consistent thing that, you know, you see it. And there's always a reason behind it.

I, you know that this was a deliberate thought out process. But he had everybody fooled. And he got the people that we know we'd be. looking to to fool us as well. You messed up my Saturday night in Cabo, so I had to fix it somewhat. Kyle, coaching against Sean, I know you guys, obviously, this is what gets dynamic here and it gets really interesting because your fan bases absolutely hate each other. You guys have a real healthy, competitive spirit against each other, but what's it like

coaching against a guy that you know so well in the relationship that you guys have had so long over the years? And also the fact that you want to beat his ass when you play. against them because they matter in the division. No, it's why I wish he wasn't our division. It sucks, man. Like, that's, why do you think? I mean, that's our biggest fear in Julio is that Sean's going to go for him.

Like my first voice is, I mean, I just wish Julio will go the AFC. But if he's going to NFC, West, we got to make sure we get him. Because it almost ends up being an arms race. Same job. Sean does. I know how good a job. Pete does. I know a good of a job.

Cliff does. And everyone's got quarterbacks. So I'm not, that's actually the most frustrating thing for me. I always say, let's do it the right way, which there's no right way or wrong way, but like you don't want to have to risk your future to compete in one year. And that's the hardest thing about being in our division because I know how Sean rolls. That's very similar to me. And I can see the other two guys in our division.

So it's, Julio would have helped everybody. But you know what is doing to your organization for that year and for the years to come. and that's a really risky thing. But man, if Sean's getting them, I'm going to risk that. And I know that's how he thinks. That's how we all think. Totally. You got to compete with your division first.

And I know the coaches, I know the quarterbacks. I know the organizations in our division are really competing that way. And that's what makes it tough. Yeah, that's the thing, Peter, I would say. And Kyle and I have talked about this a lot. You know, we both are competitors and love it. But the one thing that you miss out on being in the same division, are the ball conversations that you'd love to have that we had when we work together.

Like, that's the one thing when Matt was in Tennessee for a year, you know, when we were working together, when Kyle was working with him, but then when you go to another AFC, you know, cross-conference, you're not going to play them. You know, you can have different levels of dialogue that, you know, Kyle and I, we're seeing each other twice a year. And that's what sucks is, yeah, there's, well, it's weird saying now 15 other games. That's going to be eerie. but that's the thing that you just wish like, you're like, man, it's so fun and we're competing against each other. But the conversations and the level of dialogue just about ball and philosophies

and kind of how things have evolved, you have to be a little bit more guarded. And that's not fun because that goes against our nature when you get together and you want to have a couple drinks and talk some shit to one another and have fun. And it's still like, all right, well, when the schedule comes out, you know, maybe he forgot about that little tidbit I threw. in late in the night at the combine, but it's, it's, it's fun, but it does. It's, it's a shitty part of it. And it's the, the mind message is that tidbit he'd do it at the combine. Was that a tidbit didn't mean to say or did he mean to say it, which is trying it was a lie that he's trying to invest with me on. So like, it's like, all right, I'll just talk to him next year.

One of the things we do on the show, Kyle, it's so good and so fun is that Sean opens up his playbook and it's a bit vulnerable and maybe he goes into some plays that he uh i don't know sean would you say regret uh more than regret peter yes it there's been a lot of regrettable moments what is a play that you've said hey you've been calling games for a long time now what's one of those moments where you're saying why would i do that oh i have so many of those man me and you both but you always know the why at the moment And then after you're just want to kill yourself. It's like, oh, it would have been so easy not to do that.

But you get caught up in the, it's not caught up in the moment, and it's caught up guessing what the other team's going to do. Yeah. And you want to finish people. I mean, everyone talks about us, not us, talks about me, throwing it too much in the Super Bowl with the Falcons. But I, we ran it more in the first, I mean, we ran it more in the second half than we did in the first half.

It was about not having the ball. but I will say I sat there so long and watched Tom Brady just pick us apart and go 34 36 or whatever he did. And I remember saying if we get this ball back, I'm not waiting. We got to go. And we hit this big, Julio caught that huge play where it was just like, oh my God, Julio is unstoppable. And we ran the ball and it got to second and 10. The last time I was down there, it was second and 10.

I ran the ball and they stopped us and got us to third and 11. And yet we also had a holding call on it and it knocked us back out of field go range. So we threw it to Julio. He caught that. I ran at the next play, got to second and 10. And I was like, I'm going right to Julio. I'm just, and I called a play to totally go to Julio. Right when we snapped it, the coverage took it away.

So it was the wrong call. And I wish we didn't take a sack, but no one was open and we ended up taking a sack. And right then I was like, oh my God, why did I just try to end it? Like that got in me because it was like, I knew because it was a buildup for an hour. of watching Tom. I'm like, man, I just tried to end it. I think I was thinking right, because who the hell is not going to Julio Jones right now?

And oh my God, now we're not. And I got to throw the ball to get back to field goal range. And so the next play I threw the ball. It was a five-yard out to Mohamed Sunu, caught it, turned up the field for 12-yard gain, back in field-go range. But they called a holding on our left tackle on Jake Matthews on Chris Long, which wasn't even close to the holding that happened

on every third down and the Super Bowl is that two years later. But it got called that day. So I had to deal with it. And then you've got to live with it the rest of your life. And it's just those are the things. And you don't get a change. Like it's not like, Kyle, you can't always answer and be like, but it comes down to one play.

And that's why I've always said like, yeah, I wish I'd call a different call on that one play. I don't want to go to the final everything. You get into, you're down. You get into two minutes. You throw the ball six play straight. But like that one right there. And as I think. it would have been different. But you know what, though? Here's the thing, though, in that sequence,

what nobody talks enough about was what you just said on third down, where you throw a quick choice route to sinew, which is the right call, we kick a field goal, games probably over if we don't get the holding call. And like, the one thing that I would say as well is, like, part of what is, what I think gives us the ability to be good at what we do is we're playing to win games instead of afraid to lose it. And that's like, that's a mindset that's true to who you are. It didn't work out. Like, I love how, you know, whether you agree or disagree, everybody wants to talk about, you know, when they end up throwing it with it, Seattle versus the Patriots. Well, what nobody wants to talk about is they go goal line defense. You're going to have an unblocked defender at the point

of attack. Could Marshaun Lynch run the guy over? Yeah, maybe so. But also, you know what's a much more sound? Let's run a two-man pick rub versus a zero coverage. And that's a high percentage. And that's smart design right there. It just didn't work out in terms of the execution and how it plays out. But I love how it's always the revisionist history. But to your point, Kyle, the thought process is sound. And that's where it's like, hey, as a play caller, we've got to sacrifice, sometimes the results for a sound thinking. Now, I don't know if I've always had the sound thinking on some of my things where you get excited. But that to me is a sequence that I think is is overlooked in terms of, all right, well, let's really dive down into it. Everybody

he's got all the answers and no accountability. Let's really talk about the whys behind it, and then let's see how you feel after that. Well, that's something I really try to pride myself on that. Sometimes it can be stupid, but I'm going to make the call based off of your preparation and what you're paid to do. That's my job.

So I'm going to make it off of what we've done, what's going on, what the fronts are, the coverages, the players, everything. It's not going to be ever based off of, yeah, this is probably a little risky to do this. I totally believe it's right, but I'm not going to do it because it's risky perception-wise and this could get me blamed.

And that's stuff that you also, you could say that, but if you haven't been through it and you haven't really thought about it, human nature will take over and your nerves will. And you'll just try to survive. And that's not what you want from a play call. That's not what you want from a leader.

That's not what you want from anyone in that situation. You want someone who prepares and is going to do what they think is, best and they have a clear mind with that. And that's, that's why at least we're sitting there in our clothes with the walkie talkie doing it instead of like as an NFL quarterback in the heat of battle in a pocket with these guys past rush on us. That's why I go back to quarterback's very similar. But you've got to have that confidence, that preparation, that clear minds where you do what's right, even though it doesn't always work over nerves and perception. It's, it's amazing

because, you know, you hear the 28 to 3 and you've heard it and you don't want to talk about it and it's enough. But you would never hear anyone say, yeah, but the Jake Matthews holding call was bullshit. And it's just, it's not part of the narrative. And it's unfortunate. Sean, I look at you guys. Everyone talks about the past interference, the NFC championship game with Nicole Roby Coleman. I always would say, Jared Goff was down 13, nothing in the Superdome and came back and found a way to get to overtime. And Drew Brees got the ball first and over.

Like, do we give no credit to what the Rams did that day? But that's just the narrative. And I guess as you guys as coaches, you can't fight the media. You can't fight the public perception. You just got to eat it and know in your hearts that, hey, we know what we know. Yeah. And I think like what Kyle's been talking about is there comes a peace of mind when you get to a certain point where you're saying like, if I had a why, then I can go to bed at night knowing that, hey, I competed to the best of my ability. And I didn't.

I let my preparation dictate those pressure decisions that occur inevitably in Super Bowls and NFC championships and things like that. and like, you know, as long as you have that, then that's where you can, you can, you can, you can accept it. It doesn't mean that you're, that you don't desire to have the different results and both of us don't want to be sitting here right now having, you know, we've gone to, you know, we've been a part of two of the last three Super Bowls, but I just think all those prospective shaping. And as long as you have a process that dictates and determines how you're making those decisions and it's sound and it's not scared. That's, that's what you want. That's what you want from your quarterback like he talked about. That's what you want from

your leaders. And if, you're not epitomizing that in our roles, it's not going to work out for you. Kyle, can I ask you about one of my favorite offensive attacks of any team in the last 20 years was the NFC championship game, you against the Packers, and Garapolo threw the ball eight times. I think Rahim Moser just scored another touchdown. Like, did you know going in that that was the game plan that we're just going to run the F out of the ball on this team, a team you already beat earlier in the season and against the head coach, Matt LaFleur, that you knew really well?

That was the game plan. We didn't know it would go that extreme, but I mean, people forget, go back and watch that game. We went three and out. They stuffed us on the first drive. And it wasn't until, I think, a third and eight called a trap versus a pass blitz that got us going. But Rahim was on it. Like, he was as good as there was at that time. And our whole O line was moving with them, the way our receivers were blocking, like, and the way our defense was.

You can stick with it and call a game that way, even though it takes a little time to get into when you have a defense. like we did. And I knew the defense we had. So that whole year was a little different. I could always wait and be patient and knowing it was a matter of time because usually our defense was that way. Now, there's a couple of games that weren't that way that year. It was versus New Orleans. Down to New Orleans was versus Sean the second time where we had to win in a shootout. And it was against Arizona also where our offense had to kind of get away from just running it down people's throats because our defense wasn't the same that had been the other 14 games. But that was fun.

Like it's very rare you can run the ball that much. And when you do it that way, there's just something about it. Especially in 2019 where that's not the norm. It's so cool to see it. Right. Well, it was crazy to me that people like, like blame Jimmy for it or something. Like we didn't trust them or something. It's like, what is wrong with people?

Like, we're running it down their throat and our defense is stopping them. What do people want us to throw it for? And so it just becomes a double-edged short on both of that stuff. But, like, that was one of the coolest games. And it led into the Super Bowl. And I thought we had all that momentum going and changed on a third and 15. And that's why you got to finish it all the way to the end. Or we get a seven-game series, but that's probably never going to happen in football.

Yeah, I know. It's so different. But, you know, it was that trap that Mosterd hit, you know, because it's a sound call where you're saying, all right, all right, it got a chance for it to pop, but I'm in good field goal range right there. And then he goes down the left side. headline. And it was those kind of games, though, like they found a way to win in those crunch time moments and come through. I mean, you talk about the Arizona game. I still can't believe you got a good teaching reel of a zero peel edge rusher and you get the choice on the end break

to Wilson. I'm like, when the only clips I have of that or teach it off a practice film, I cannot believe they got that. It was so cool because he was our choice runner and he was sick. And I called a timeout to put him in. And we were debating it because he hadn't been in for like two quarters because he was sick. And I was like, am I putting the wrong pressure on this guy? And then I call a time out and I'm watching him in the huddle out there doing high knees in the huddle trying to get loose. I'm like, what am I doing?

And then he came through though and won the game. Jeff Wilson. It was unbelievable, man. He had the guy leading the league in sex peeling on him and let's just break it inside. I said, golly, man. Sean, you've had those games. So I want to think the Dallas playoff game when you had Gurley and C.J. Anderson rolling in it, you know,

It's nothing against the quarterback. It's just sometimes running the ball still works in the NFL. Yeah, no, to Kyle's point, too, I mean, you know, when you look at, you're playing to your strengths. At the end of the day, the number one goal is to win a game. And how do you figure it out? And that's what these best coaches do. They put all three phases together. They say, we have a plan and we're going to play to our strengths.

And whether you win by one point or 45 points, there's no style points in this league, especially in the playoffs. And so when you look at other than points, it's about the turnovers. And they were so good defensively, now what I think, one under the radar is they were also one of the best offenses in the league that year as well. You know, they were, they were a really strong team. They were good on in the kicking game as well. But when you look at 80% of the turnovers that occur, they're on pass downs. You know, you're playing, if you can move the football efficiently up and down and then when you've got

most or where, oh, by the way, we're hitting explosives now and we're doing a bunch of different things. And then, I mean, that reverse reel that you guys had when you're faking your one back counter, the stutter and hitting it to Debo Samuel, I think he had like four touch, carries on that for the year for like 30 yards of pop. It was a freaking joke. Yeah, that reverse reel is the best example of the NFL, though. We called 2019 the reverse reel is unbelievable. And it took me to about week six of 2020 to realize, all right, the league has studied this.

They caught up? They're calling these horrible plays. Is that right, Kyle? Like the coordinator is just they pick up on it, right? Yeah. When you get attention for success, it makes it a lot harder. And that's what I'll go back to like what started with us in Atlanta, the tension we got there, then what Sean did right away with the Rams, then the Matla Fleur doing it, guys like Arthur Smith

after that, then us in San Francisco that year, like it, it makes the whole league kind of dabble in it. So it's not about like them knowing your secrets, it's about defenses practice against that a lot more because their offenses are doing it too. So it becomes it's not like, oh, hey, we just got to week eight and we're playing their Rams and this is the first time we've seen it. No, the Rams have had success. That's why they saw it in training camp because their own offense does it because they studied in the offseason.

So like, that's the stuff that happens with the technology and the studying of everything. That's why like there's only so much you can do. And you got to coach your right. You got to keep up with it. You got to always try to put people in binds. And if there is a hole on their defense, whatever it is, you've got to put your foot on their throat and keep going at that hole until they change that hole to open up another hole. And that's how you can simplify it a little bit. Because if not, everyone's just copying each

other. No doubt. Beautiful. Kyle, to wrap things up, we have asked every single guest this question. And I'm fascinated to hear yours answer on this. It's our last question. It's our last question for everyone. If there is a young coach, Pop Warner, high school, looking to get into this profession and make a career out of it, what would be your elevator speech, your piece of advice? And if you can get one takeaway from Kyle Shanahan, what would it be to that young coach? Go do something else. No, that is a good one right there. It's so tough.

There's only 32 teams, and there's so many, it's so much bigger now than it was 30 years ago because of Good Morning America or whatever you do. Good morning football. It's a great show. You should really watch it. You love it. It is awesome. It's very good.

It's my favorite. one. But like there's so many people and it's so competitive and it's that's great, but there is only 32 teams. And so if you want to get into coaching into professional sports, make sure it's for a certain reason. Like make sure it's you truly enjoy the sport. You truly enjoy coaching. Like, and you'll be happy, whether it's high school, college, NFL, whatever. But if you get into it just to be an NFL coach, it's a tough life. Like it's, and it's awesome too. So, So I'm not trying to make it sound that way. But, I mean, I just broke my record for the longest I've ever lived anywhere.

That was five years. That's in San Francisco. Wow. I got it with Denver, but I didn't move there until then freshman year in high school. And so you just, you move a lot. And if, I mean, you can be a really good coach and that doesn't mean you're not going to get fired. And one thing that I think was different for me growing up, I always, there was two newspapers I had to read on Monday mornings after games. And I was always worried about the bad articles.

Now it's not two newspapers. It's your phone every second. So don't get totally caught up and, hey, I want to be an NFL coach. I want to do this. Then I think you'll end up being unhappy. Get into it because I have a passion to help people. I love to teach. What do you want to teach?

I'd love to teach sports because that's what I enjoy the most. And if you can go into all those things and you're getting into it for the right reasons, then go run with it. And you'll see how high you go. But don't get into it just to be an NFL. coach. Get into it because you want to coach. That's awesome, man. Yeah, well said. And you can feel that too, Peter, working with them, the passion about just studying the game, understanding, all the things. Like, what I've loved is both of us, you know, working hard, but hey, we got into coaching,

but it's how can you translate those tools and things like that to help these guys reach their highest potential and very well said. Kyle, thank you so much, man. You were awesome, dude. Seriously, it means a lot to both of us. Yeah, I enjoyed it. Guys, it was fun. It was fun. All right, bro. I'll talk to you. All right, fellas. Talk to you guys later, man.

Sean, Kyle was great. I got to tell you, I know that I'm a co-host here, but I could have just sat back and listened to the two of you guys talk. Such interesting shared experiences, but also I think there was a side of Kyle Shanahan we haven't heard before. I thought he was vulnerable. I thought he was honest.

And I thought the way he was talking about the 28 to 3 Super Bowl, I don't think he's ever spoken on the record about that stuff. Yeah, I think that's a perspective that you have from working with him. He's always been so real, so authentic. I think that's what you hear, like I talked about with him, you know, that the players that those guys that really know what it looks like, what it should look like from a coach that's going to be demanding, but he's going to keep it real with you. And man, is he a smart football mind that the

game just makes sense to him? So much of what I learned about how you see the game the right way was through his dad and through him. And like we talked about, it's as a competitor, you love going against the best and being able to compete against one another and the teams that they've established with Sam Fran, but it would be a lot easier if we didn't have to see each other twice a year and we could share a little bit more intricate details on our scheme and what we're doing, because that's been one of those things with one of your buddies that you wish you could be a little bit more transparent about. Has it put a strain on the relationship at all?

I mean, you guys obviously had coached together, but then you both get these head coaching jobs and you're against each other as arch rivals, and you guys seem like you're great, but I can only imagine how upsetting it is that you can't reveal offensive secrets or kind of bounce ideas off him. Yeah, there's a mutual respect, but, but it does limit some of the dialogue that you can have just because, like, if he was, if he was coaching in the AFC, you know, you're saying, all right, well, these are champagne problems if we see each other, especially depending upon where it fits in the schedule, where if you're seeing each other in the Super Bowl, there's enough stuff that goes by, but, um, it limits some of the things that you like to talk about. I mean, the, the best part about it

for, I think, both of us that you could feel in that interview, Peter, we love football. You know, it's not work to us. When we're having a few drinks relaxing in the summer or when we get a little bit of a break before we get this grind going in training camp here shortly, we're talking about football or our families. And those are the things that we love. And that limits some of those conversations, but you can still keep it generic enough or we can have some fun. Hey, am I throwing that out there intentionally? Are we not? But he was great. He was great and some good laughs on some great memories we had working together as well. He really was, and that was just candy for 49ers and Rams fans who, uh, they've been asking for Kyle as a guest. I mean, I get more tweets about people asking for

Kyle to be a guest and I think he delivered. And Craig, uh, is that right? So you get a lot of Niners fans hit you up on that. People wanted to hear you and Kyle and I think more than delivered. They're a loyal fan base. They have two huge fan bases. And Craig, Craig, Craig Holbeck here is our producer. He's been the producer since the start of Flying Coach. He's one of the three. the three big voices on this podcast. Craig, what was your takeaway from the Sean and Kyle conversation, which is so hotly anticipated from a lot of these fans that are listening to the podcast?

Yeah, I just wanted a video of just you two sitting in an office of the whiteboard and you guys are just going for, you know. Seriously. You guys just grab a bunch of Red Bulls and just get after it for five hours. That's what I want to watch after listening to that. Yes, we've had a lot of fun talking football with Red Bulls. May or may not have been sprinkled with some vodka inside of it as well. But no, he's, he's great. I'm glad that he took the time to do that,

but he's been awesome. Nothing but good things that came out of today's conversation and appreciative of him giving us his time. Yeah, you only ruined his vacation in Cabo. But like, I almost wanted to tell him, dude, it was a cab ride away. Like, get on your, get in an Uber and get to that hotel and try to interrupt. I mean, it was almost like the guy watching the love of his life getting married and he just sat and watched with his hands, uh, sitting on his hand. Sean, I mean, come on. Worked out the way it was supposed to work out. There we go.

Craig, let's get to the reader, the listener emails. The reader. See, that shows your versatility. You are a writer, but also a connoisseur of podcasts and the television game. You, my friend, have great range yourself, Peter. Yeah, just when you think I'm going to pass the ball, I'll go to Rahim Moster at 45 times and get 18 rushing touchdowns. Craig, let's go to the emails and the voicemail. what do we got this week? All right, this is Marcus in Pacific Beach. This question is for both of you.

Sean, you are obviously incredibly busy during OTA's training camp as well as the regular season. The NFL has become a 24-7 news cycle filled with stories, interesting tidbits, as Peter can attest to. So how do you get your news? How do you consume everything that's going on around the game while doing your job? Are you reading articles? Is somebody sending you news and tweets? Same question for Peter. Yeah, so great question. And I think what I've learned over the last couple years, you know, And it's good. You don't have to worry about filtering through those articles. But if you do something bad, you know, you don't want to be exposed. But you do need to be on a need-to-know basis in terms of your dealings with the media. And so I like to look at more of the national outlets, you know,

whether it's ESPN, NFL.com. You know, you look at, you know, the different things. You know, I'm looking at Peter Schrager's Twitter handle. But I honestly try to stay away from it because I do think you want to guard yourself from being relying on that information or letting that dictate kind of some of the parts of your being, whether it's good or bad things. And so I'm on a need-to-no basis, but the actual stuff to do your job at a high level, I think you want to understand the transactions and the things that are necessary to understand what is the competitiveness of the other 31 teams. But in terms of reading like profiles, things like that, you know, I still think during the

season you want to guard against just some of the, you know, the negative things that could potentially affect you in a negative way. So you filter through that information, but I'm kind of on a need-to-know basis. I'm not really diving into it. It's more about understanding what I need to know to help us try to win a game or be in tune with what's going on with the rest of the league without diving too far into some of the opinionated pieces that might hurt my feelings. I think that's interesting because I'm the same way. Part of my job is to gather information on Good Morning Football and educate the audience on it. But It's also to have an opinion on things.

So a lot of the opinion shows or the opinion pieces or the podcast that are just people giving takes, nothing against them. It's a living, but I'll just, I'll filter those out. What I look for appointment reading is Peter King's Monday column every Monday. He's got good insight. He talks with people. Schefter's Twitter feed always is breaking news, so I'll follow that. And then I love like a good long-form article.

Like Seth Wickersham and those guys at ESPN do really good job. way after the fact of putting together like a huge piece, a deep piece where it's like, here's what went down and here's how it went down. And I love that kind of stuff. So I could say Seth, but like, you know, there's a reporter out in New England, Mike Reese, who does the Patriots. Like, we'll follow him for Patriot stuff. And basically we'll rely on him and Mike Giardy, who does enough for the NFL network for my Patriots stuff. Like I know each team, like who I'm going to and what I'm looking for for information. But I think the NFL Network does a pretty good job of no bullshit filtering through that and our reporters are pretty

dialed in. So I would pretty much say I keep it on NFL Network on in the background and then when those written pieces come out, I'll go deep dive on those. But when it comes to a, you know, X player XYZ commenting on the Tennessee Titans running, running attack with no, I don't, you know, I'm good. Like I probably will tune that out. All right, cool. All right. So one more before we get to the voicemail. This is from Kevin in L.A. He says, love. the show. Coach McVeigh, which active players that you've coached do you think would make a great head coach? Peter, which active players that you've interviewed do you think would make great journalists? Yeah, so I'll tell you, I've been around a lot of different special types of

players and a couple guys that really stand out, you know, when I first got here, you know, and I'll just keep it with the, with the L.A. Rams just for the sake of the question. But a couple guys that I think would make seamless transitions. When we first got here, a guy that, that we put a lot on his shoulders, who is so smart. If he wanted to, I think that John Sullivan would make a great coach. I think I learned so much from him. Feel the same way about Eric Weddle. At the same time, I got a tough time believing guys like Aaron Donald

because of how demanding and how consistent they are. Wouldn't be a great coach if they wanted to, the Andrew Whitworths. So it's all about the perspective that these guys have. Cooper Cup and Robert Woods are about as special as it gets in terms of, of their big picture understanding from the receiver position. It shows you that I'm a big fan of a lot of our players because I think they would make seamless transitions. But if I were to say a couple guys that you've really been around,

here's the guys that I would really say just in the short amount of time in the four years that have been the head coach. John Sullivan, Eric Weddell are two unbelievably smart players. I think John Johnson, who's going on to the Browns, is in that same sort of mold as what Eric is. great communicators, charisma presence. I think John Johnson would be outstanding. And then, you know, the guys like the Cups, the Woods,

and then obviously Stafford's command of it all. And those are guys that kind of stand out that I think would make great coaches if they decided to pursue that profession. That's awesome to hear. And, you know, it's funny. Like, have you ever had a player, a current player? And you don't have to name the name, come to you and ask you for advice and getting into coaching, Sean?

And not after the fact, not after he's been out of the league. but while he's still on the team and saying, hey, coach, I'd love if you have two minutes to kind of bounce these ideas off you as far as this XYZ goes. Yeah, usually if those, I really haven't. I think it's more guys when they decide,

all right, I'm done playing football and then I'm looking for the next transition for what's next in my life. You know, those are kind of the conversations where if they want to get into coaching, but I think most of those guys, if they add their pick, they want to be,

they want to play and they want to keep their career going. and then you decide, I was forced into coaching. This wasn't a choice, you know. So nobody in particular, but there are a lot of guys that when they're looking to transition from being a player and then they want to be involved in football in some form or fashion, you know, you might give them an opportunity where they come, you know, do some of these internships and all the different platforms that are provided or you see guys getting hired on. I mean, you look at having Kyle on here, D'Amico Ryan's, Kyle was around him where he was the rookie of the year. he was an all-pro linebacker, great leader of the defense. And I think some positions are innately thrust into a leadership role. That's why I talk about, you know, the quarterbacks and then whoever has the green

dot on defense are naturally going to be the most seamless transition to coaches because they're responsible for transmitting information. There are a lot of times an extension of the coaching staff. I think the center position is like that. You know, Whitworth is in essence an extension of the coaches as well with the way that he pours into our younger guys. So a lot of different guys that are reflect. of being great coaches, but oh, by the way, they happen to be outstanding athletes and players

and keep doing their thing. Yeah, and I think it's D'Amico Ryan's Gerard Mayo, you see up in New England, same kind of deal, like the linebacker, and I think it was great. And I always find it interesting when it's a guy who probably doesn't need to financially in this day and age and then goes into coach. I think Wes Welker's the wide receivers coach with Kyle and San Francisco. Like, West Walker doesn't need to work a day in his life. He's set, and I don't know his finances, but he had a nice NFL career. But some of these. guys just love the craft and love the sport and they're willing to work their way up and do it from the ground up. And I love that. As far as the journalism question goes, there's two different types of

player who goes into broadcasting. There's the brash personality who has thoughts and takes and opinions. Then there's the guy that can break the game down and explain it in a way that is captivating and can do so with his own personality. When you blend those two, that's when you get a star or you get somebody you want to work with. I think I work with one of them and Nate Berlison, who I think is fantastic in knowing the game and has enough experience and personal stories that he can share it in a way that is enjoyable to listen to, but you're learning something along the way, and it's completely authentically Nate. He just won the sports Emmy for best sports analyst, and that includes Harold Reynolds and Kurt Herbstry and like, gosh, that's my work brother.

Like, that is the coolest deal. And Sean, you've gotten to know Nate quite a bit, just, you know, through our show, but also through me. And he's the same guy on that set as he is when you're off the set, which I think is an important trait and quality. Yeah, incredibly charismatic, intelligent, you know, all the things he's checking the boxes. And, you know, I'm just glad that he carries you through good morning football every single morning. He does.

The other kind of deal is like an Akib Talib right now or a Pat McAfee where it's not your traditional cookie cutter. Here's how it's done. Akeep Talib has a great podcast with Cowards Network. but he also was doing games this year. And I know Bill Simmons, our boss at The Ringer, was, you know, a fan of it and liked the way that he was calling these games. Like, it's so unique.

But it's honestly, it's a keep-Talib. Like, you know, I get so frustrated sometimes when I have these great players and these great personalities, they put on the suit and the tie, and they're suddenly robots, and they sound like every other person. And Troy talked about that. But to hear Taleb be himself and then to see McAfee, you know, with a baseball bat and a tank top, you know, tee off on topics across the fifth league. I'm like, that's good. I like it. Like, I don't need the cookie cutter anymore. So to me, as long as you're unique and authentic.

And, Sean, go on, jump in. I don't hear you about it. Akeb would be another one of those guys that would make a great coach if he wanted to. I think he has such a swagger, such a charisma and a presence that's made him great, you know, with the transition, whether it's doing a podcast or, you know, analyzing a game. But he's so smart, so intelligent, able to anticipate and understand his concept, ignition, his toughness, all the great experiences that he has that he could draw on. He was awesome. Akeep Taleb is one of my all-time favorites.

I just think the world of him. And he's another guy that he's one of those guys that he'd probably be good at whatever he decided. But as a coach, as a guy that has so many great experiences to draw on. And then he's so smart and knows the game inside and out from both sides. I think that's why you see him make such a seamless transition to broadcasting is, you have to have a big picture perspective and knowledge that, you know, it's, it's pretty special for him to have that from the cornerback position. But he saw the game through a really special

lens. And he's another guy that would definitely have made a great coach if he chose to go that direction as well, I think. I would just throw in of the current guys in the league. Like, Greg Olson's going to be joining the Fox booth this year. He's going to be awesome. Greg is, he's almost like a season pro now. He's done games for years. And he's just one of the great all-time guys. But I think Rogers and I also think Brady would both be really good. Yeah. I don't know if Breeze is going to be good. I'll be candid with you. I've never had a conversation with Drew where, you know, he's obviously one of the best players of all time, but where I jump out of my seat and I'm like, tell me more, tell me more. So that's going to be a

challenge for him because Drew Breeze, the brand is now going to be Drew Breeze. And like no one wants to hear the brand. They want to hear the real Drew Breeze and what he's all about. And I think he's going to, he's going to be steered in that direction, which is great. And who am I to question the skills. I think he's going to be fine. But like Rogers, I feel like he doesn't give a, you know what, similar to Troy, and then Brady doesn't give a, you know what. These guys are just raw. And I think both of those guys, whenever they want to call it quits and get into broadcasting, they don't need to, certainly financially. I think they would both be fantastic, either in the booth or at a table. Rogers is an enigma to so many, but when he talks, people listen. And I think

he's as well-versed and well-rounded as any quarterback the league has ever seen. Yeah, that's why he seamlessly can host Jeopardy as well, Peter. But I'll tell you what, Drew Breeze, here's what I will tell you is, you know, we talked a little bit with Kyle about when I run into Stafford and Cabo. Well, Drew was also there kind of contemplating, all right, where am I at in the transition? And so talking to him about the possibilities of what could occur, I bet you're going to see a different side of him where when he starts talking about football, he lights up because there's an intricate knowledge that all of those people that you just mentioned have that I think they can

just naturally pull as long as it's their personality. That's why I think you see guys like Romo and Troy Aikman make such seamless transitions because what is put on that position from just an above-the-neck approach, as you like to hear me say, Peter, is something that, you know, you've got a wealth of knowledge that you can draw on. And then, oh, by the way, if you have a charisma and a presence to be able to connect with the viewer, now you've got a chance to make it a fun, a comfortable watch. And then you've got a lot of insight to offer that can only occur in live action where it's up to the moment and being able to kind of be on your P's and Q's, which the adjustments that you need to make based on how the game unfolds, very similar to how you

talked about what sideline reporters do to separate themselves. We'll see with Breeze. I'm excited for it. It's a big hire, and I think he's going to have a great career at NBC. I've always enjoyed interviewing him. In today's day and age of hot takes and needing to have a personality, I'm fascinated to see what we get. But Sean, I'll take your word that he's going to incite and educate the viewer. All right. Here is the voicemail for today coming up. Hey, Peter and Sean. My name's Brandon from Columbus, Ohio. My question is for Sean. In the book, The Score takes care of itself, Bill Walsh. throat hearing someone described as being able to fly by the seat of his pants always suggest to me a leader who hasn't prepared properly whose pants may soon fall down. Sean, how has your preparation for a game day evolved in your five years as head coach and how does it look differently in year six than it did in year one?

Awesome question. I love that. Sean, go for it. That is a good question. I think as long as you use every experience as a learning op, you can continue to tailor that approach. And so I think you want to tighten down the efficiency of your preparation week in and week out. You want to make sure that all the decisions that you make during the course of a game are reflective of being sound with your preparation, but also having the

agility based on how the game expresses itself to be able to adjust or adapt if what you saw on film in the preceding weeks is not necessarily in alignment or if they've chosen to take a different approach and how they want to defend you or how they want to attack you offensively. And so I think it's just continuing to just use all those reps as learning ops, put yourself through different situations that inevitably come up throughout the course of the game and playing the game before the game. You know, all right, hey, if it's a third down, here's the lead dog coverages that we're expecting in this window as opposed to that.

Let's make sure that we have answers for it. You know, the biggest thing is you want to be able to get ahead of the problems that could potentially be presented and just be able to fine tune it. And as long as you're using those experiences as examples to learn on and making sure that it's not just the good ones, but most importantly, sometimes the bad so you don't repeat those mistakes. I think you can efficiently use that experience, you know, as a learning op. And that's what we've tried to do. But I think it's the combination of experience, adaptability, and agility, and then being able to see the game in live action and make those adjustments accordingly. Yeah, I think a good follow up and we'll end it on this.

I feel like so many times we hear about in-game adjustments and halftime adjustments, do you have a recollection of a game where you almost tore up the game plan and said, we got to do things totally different in-game? Yeah, I mean, there's a couple years ago where, you know, even just our second game against, you know, against the Saints, they came out and started doing something totally different than, you know, than what they had shown on film. But that happens pretty frequently, you know, there's a lot of instances where, you know, the preceding games might not necessarily be a great indicator.

And that could be for a variety of reasons because, oh, you're doing really well. And so, hey, what's been on film is not the right answer. So we've got to adjust our plan accordingly. Or if you've got some of these elite players, you know, I've often talked to Matthew Stafford a lot about, you know, when you saw some of the coverage contours that Calvin Johnson, aka Megatron, elicited, you know, you might see him play the previous week, but this team is going to go down on the goal line. and now they're going to allocate two corners to just vice him because if you leave him one on one,

it's a joke. He's always going to get a corner rotated up with safety help over the top. And so it's a balance of understanding those things. What is, you know, the coordinator or their defense's philosophy? There's how do they want to defend us personnel wise? And then are there tangible examples of, you know, what's been shown to be reflective of slowing you down that maybe doesn't fit and are they willing to put that in? So all of those are things that you kind of have to anticipate and be ready to handle accordingly. We adjust on the fly. It's what we do on Flying Coach. And Sean, I appreciate you so much.

And Craig, as well to you, this thing is on fire. We are doing good content. Content you're not getting anywhere. If you're a Niners fan listening for the first time, we hope you download all the other ones. If you have a reader email or a listener email that you want to send in or a voicemail, Craig, can you give the information to those folks who might be listening to the first time? Yeah, Flying Coach podcast. email.com and the number for the voicemail is in the pod description, as is the email. So just check the show's description and you've got everything you need. Another episode on the books. Boys, I love you. This is going great and I cannot wait for next week. How about, you know, because a couple weeks back, you know, Troy was so great about, you know, flying first class. What about renaming

the section, answers from up top? I like that. I like that. I like that. I like that. From the neck up. That's good. We'll hold on that one too. I don't like that. Yeah, I was being nice. I don't really like it either. We'll figure out a name for this. The answer. The cockpit? Not bad.

We're really reaching here. We are. By the time we're at the end of this whole podcast, we'll think of a good segment to name this. But I do know this thing has been a blast and we're getting great feedback. So thanks to you guys. Thanks to the listeners. Keep it going. Subscribe.

Tell your friends and continue to send us in your emails and voicemails and your suggestions for guests. We finally got Kyle Shanahan and I thought he knocked it out of the park. Sean, Craig. Love you, dudes. We'll see you next week. Appreciate it, fellas. Always a pleasure.