The Ringer NFL Show - Kyler a Trade Chip? Will the Ravens Be Contending for the AFC Crown? More NFL Draft Takeaways | Extra Point taken

Episode Date: May 1, 2023

The dust has settled from the 2023 NFL draft and some major moves were made before and during the draft. Ben and Sheil give three observations that were either good or perplexing. With Lamar Jackson now locked in with the Ravens, did they propel themselves to the top of the AFC? Where will Kyler Murray be playing in 2024? Those and more on 'Extra Point Taken'! Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Ben Solak Producer: Cliff Augustin Additional Production Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Music Composed By: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, my name is Kevin Clark. I'm the host of a new football podcast called Slow Newsday. I want to tell you about it. On Mondays, Lindsay Jones and I will recap the weekend in football that was, as well as look ahead to what's next. On Wednesday, the normal Slow Newsday, the thing you've been watching for years, current players, current coaches, current analysts talking about the football world. And on Friday, it's a wildcard.

Could be some college football. Could be more pro stuff. It's a video podcast so you can watch it on Spotify or listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. Follow on Spotify. It's Slow Newsday. Welcome to Extra Point Taken on the Ringer NFL feed. Shield Kapadia here with Ben Solak.

The 2023 NFL draft is in the books. Most of the big off-season dominoes have fallen. Ben Solac is off a long day of travel. I assume he's got a fishing pole like right off screen here. Then as soon as we're done recording this pod, he's going to be out, get a little mental health refresher, a little breather. A little breather after the wonderful work he's put in along the time. with the rest of our staff for the draft. Am I right, Benny Souls?

Are you out like this afternoon to where do you go a pond, a lake? I would love for you to be right. And if the circumstances were correct, you would be right. However, it is 38 degrees in Grand Rapids today. So we ain't swimming just yet. Fish ain't woke up just yet. What's your, what's your off-season thing? My life, everybody knows my off-season thing is like fishing.

That's what I'm going to do for the entire summer. What about you? I'm an old, generic sports writer person now who, who during the pandemic tried to learn how to play golf and is terrible at it, but still enjoys bringing a golf course. So that will be my thing, trying to get better at a thing. I know I will not even get to any baseline level of competency with, but that's part of the fun. When you're old, you take on these new challenges, Ben, you still try to get better at stuff, even though, you know, you might fail a lot. Like Janus said, like we were talking about before the pot.

I'm painting myself into a bit of a corner because everything I say on all of these shows are going to be held in the public record for forever. But I really don't think I'm ever going to be into golf. I don't. And maybe I'll hit 40 and that synapse will go off in my brain, right? That neuron will start firing. That's like, pick up a club, walk on the grass. But I just don't, I just would rather walk and then not have to stop and do something every so often. This doesn't seem engaging to me. You get to hang out with friends. You're outside. You get that little competition itch. That's what I like about it. But anyway, you didn't tune in this great audience. to listen to me complain that I stink at golf still.

You came in to find out what do Sheel and Ben think about what happened during the draft, what happened this off season, what are their leftover take? So we're going old school today. No theme. This is like an in-season extra point taken. We're each just giving three takes. I'll have the extra point at the end. We haven't told each other the takes coming in, so we will react in real time.

All right. I am leading us off. This is a take I've alluded to before. feel even stronger about it now that Kyler Murray will be starting Ben for one of the following five teams in 2024. Here's what I've narrowed it down to. The Miami Dolphins. Love it. The Washington commanders. Absolutely. The Minnesota Vikings. Vives would be bad, but I accept. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Similar answer. The Atlanta Falcons. Never. No, no, no.

Arthur Smith would never look at a man that small and thinking he could play football. Absolutely no chance on the last one. So you're fully ruling the Cardinals out. That's a total zero on the Cardinals. My understanding that correctly. Cardinals are out. So here's where the take comes from. I think the biggest story, probably in the draft, was that trade that the Cardinals made with the Texans moving from

3 to 12, then the Cardinals moved back up. But if you look at what the Cardinals did, don't get me wrong. I don't think the Cardinals are suddenly a competent organization. But if I look at what the Cardinals did on draft weekend and I'm a fan, I really like what they did. Absolutely, yes. A fantastic job. I mean, they now have two first round picks in 2024 their own and the Texans first round pick. They have a second.

They have three thirds. They have six picks on the first two days of the 2024 draft. They easily could have two top five picks in the 2024 draft because I don't think the Cardinals are going to be good. and I don't think the Texans are going to be good. And guess what? Next year's draft, as Ben Solac wrote about on the ringer, has some QB star power in Caleb Williams and Drake May. I believe strongly that the Cardinals are going to end up in position to draft one of those two quarterbacks.

I think they're going to look at it. They're going to say, you know what, we had money invested in Kyler Murray, but we're going to move on. We're going to start a new era with a new quarterback on a rookie contract, and we're going to go from there. we know that's how the QB dominoes start to fall. Then the other teams who go into next offseason saying, hey, we kind of need a veteran quarterback. They start looking at it. So let me make the quick case for those five teams. And then I want to get your thoughts. The dolphins,

Tuatunga Viloa admitted, kudos to him for being honest this offseason that he considered retirement after those two, at least two concussions he suffered last year. I hope he stays healthy. I hope he doesn't suffer any more concussions. I hope he has a great career. However, There's some doubt in my mind that that's going to be the case. It's certainly within the possible realistic range of outcomes that next offseason, the dolphins are looking at a quarterback. And we know they've been in win now mode. Tyler Murray in that offense with Mike McDaniel, that could be kind of fun.

The commanders, they're kicking the can down the road at quarterback, but new ownership, we're expecting to come in. They might be in position next offseason to make a move. They're probably not going to be bad enough this year to draft a guy high. That's why I had the commanders in there. Vikings. Kirk Cousins entering the last year of his deal. Can you talk yourself into, hey, Kyler Murray with Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison.

Let's get this thing going. We can really be competitive in a weak NFC, maybe. And then you have the Bucks who really have no playing a quarterback. They're going with Baker, Mayfield, and Kyle Trask this year. Now, what was our bet? If Kyle Trask starts week one, you wear jeans or something? Was that what we were saying? Yeah, Kyle Trask, I'll wear all denim if Kyle Trask can start in week one.

You know, we're all-denim. That's right. Shout out to the listener who after we made that bet a month or so ago, gave us a nice Photoshop of Ben in an all-denum outfit. I wish I remembered who it was, but I very much enjoyed that. So it's possible the bucks are going to be bad enough that they can just sit in the draft and take a QB. However, I think they've got some talent on defense.

They're in a bad division. Maybe they'll win enough games. And then finally, the Falcons, you just said that's not happening, which might be true. Because I don't know what the Falcons really are looking for. in a quarterback where when they're going to make a move. With Desmond Ritter, but that's a conversation

for a later time, brother. However, if you read the Falcons coverage, they're saying, hey, we'll put the pieces around and then we'll figure out quarterback in the end. Maybe it's Desmond Ritter. Maybe it's someone else. So that's why I had them in the mix. All right, Ben, did I forget anybody?

Do you agree with me that Murray's going to be moved? Am I going too strong on this? Where are you with my first take? It's difficult to say you've forgotten anybody. I think those are the most quarterback, unstable teams that are out there, or at least the ones that are easiest to prognosticate. There's going to be a team between now and then

that becomes less stable at quarterback that has question marks. There's stuff that goes down and they decide to be aggressive. Lions were the only team that I was like, I'm in the headspace of like Lions should have added a quarterback, and the Lions didn't add a quarterback. I thought about it. Yeah. And so I like that one, but again, like I also don't think that they would go Kyler.

And the same way, I don't think the Falcons would go Kyler. I don't think play style makes sense. Um, yeah, I, uh, like, it deserves to be said just clearly. Kyla Murray is, Kyle Murray's contract is get outable next year. Like, it doesn't feel that way because we are not yet accustomed to guys signing massive extensions and then getting moved multiple years later, i.e. like a Carson Wentz. But Kyla Murray, uh, contract structure wise, if you trade him in the 2024 season, pre-June 1st.

It's a cap savings of $5.6 million, which is nothing. That's not much cap savings. It's a dead cap hit of $46 million, which sounds enormous. But like, when the Eagles moved off from Carson Wentz, it was what?

It was $34 million in the dead cap, right? When they, yeah. Yeah, when they moved, the Matt Ryan dead cap hit, yeah, Carson Wentz was 33.8. The Matt Ryan dead cap hit was 40.5. when they moved on from him and sent him to the Colts. 46.5 is just the cap going up.

It's just the cost of doing business. It'd be the highest dead cap in history, but it wouldn't be like, what an enormous jump, what a crazy change. Like this, like, if the Cardinals want to trade Kyle Murray's contract when the 2024 league year begins, they can no problem. And I suggested that this past weekend

when I saw the amount of draft capital that the Cardinals had accumulated because they right now lead the league in 2024 draft capital comfortably. And people were like, you don't look at the Kyla Murray contract. It's like, no, like, I know why we look at this contract. We go, obviously, they can't move. It's a $46 million dollar debt cap hit.

But that's, if you want to move off of a quarterback extension that didn't work, that's the going rate nowadays, right? You got to be eating about $40 million. And so I, uh, the trap door will be there. Now, we got some stuff to go to between hither and thither, right? We got just how Kyler, uh, rehabs both in like a positive light. What if he comes back in week five And he's great for 15 weeks

And also in a negative light What if he comes back and looks terrible And nobody wants to trade for him Because everyone's worried about him And the Cardinals are stuck with the sandbag, right? It is a little bit of a window He has to look good enough to be tradeworthy Bad enough that the Cardinals want to move on from him

We got to see who actually ends up with the first overall pick Or ends up being able to go get that first overall pick The Cardinals, I think, are a lead in the clubhouse for that But they play the Rams twice a year You'd be hard to get the first overall pick when you play that Rams team twice this season. I'll tell you that. And so there's a lot to get to between here and there. But absolutely 100% when Montiossoport and John Gannon and that new brass sits down and looks, right, three-year plan, five-year plan, they'll look at the Kyler contract and say, yeah, we can get out of this next year if we won't do.

And that's just a reality. Carnals fans are going to have to live with for a little bit. That's the big thing is that it's a new regime. They're not the ones who signed Kyler Murray to that contract. it's ownership. And so they, you know, they can easily make the sell. Now, the owner might say, no way, I'm not doing that. I make my players pay for their own food at the facility. You think I'm going to eat that much money to move on. But in most cases, what a team wants to move on from a quarterback and decide it wants to move on. There are ways to do it financially where they can,

where they can figure it out. It's rare that they'll just, especially when the opportunity elsewhere is to draft a quarterback who you love, like usually you're going to go ahead and figure out a way to do that. All right, that's my first take. What does Benjamin Solek have for his first take today? First take, the absolute best part of the Lamar Jackson extension with the Baltimore Ravens is that I no longer have to pretend what the heck's been going on this whole time with this team and with this contract. Thank goodness this is over. The fact that all of this ended with let's take the previous big quarterback contract, make it a little bit bigger and sign that is the most irritating thing I have seen all offseason. For, for, for, for, uh,

you know, uh, emphasis here. Jalen Hurd signed a five year deal worth $255 million total. Lamar Jackson signed a five year deal. And it's a little bit different because Lamar's extension starts now and Hertz's extension starts a year from now. I get that. But Lamar signed a five year deal worth $260 million. Five million more than the Jalen Hertz extension. Jaylen Hertz's extension at $180 million in terms of total guarantees, like guaranteed signing bonus, roster bonuses that activate next year, $100 million, $180 million in total guarantees. Lamar Jackson's extension at $185.

If you had rewound the clock to September of 2022, when the Ravens and Lamar were first, like, having contract negotiation issues, I would have been like, just take the most recent, take the Kyler extension at $5 million. to the total add $5 million to the guarantees and call it a day. Like, what do we do it? This is how business is done. You just find the most recent analogous quarterback contract, right?

If you're a young mobile quarterback, Kyler, if you're like an old statue quarterback, go look at the TANHill contract, and just add a little bit and keep it chugging, brother. And then we did a whole seven months, eight months of Lamar wants this. Is Lamar actually injured? He maybe he is injured. Tyler Huntley went to the Pro Bowl. The Ravens want to do this structure.

Lamar only wants three years. what are the guarantees on Deshaun Watson's deal? And we just ended up at the same place like every other quarterback negotiation goes to. And that's like great. Like it's good for the Ravens. I think that they got like, like you know, it's that classic situation of yeah,

they made Lamar the highest paid player, but they're also getting like that's a fair contract because he's Lamar. He is a, he makes your offense viable just by his presence just by starting. It's also a fair contract for Lamar because he's the highest played player in the league. And he's got a contract on the typical escalator

of quarterback contracts. So, I mean, the whole rigamarole happened. And I think we learned a lot. And I think that it's good for the rigamarole to happen in like setting the groundwork and the framework for future CBA negotiations and for discussing fully guaranteed contracts. Like, we might have ended up in the same place we would have

if everybody just played ball a year ago. But the reality is that that didn't happen. And we arrived at a moment where Lamar Jackson was a non-exclusive tendered franchise tag and the entire NFL said, no, we would never trade two first round picks for Lamar. And that event is meaningful. That event happened. It doesn't get wiped out by the fact that Lamar signed a deal with the Ravens. That occurred and that's going to matter in terms of how the non-exclusive tag is discussed

and how it's leveraged against players and how contracts and the CBA changes over time. So like that occurred and you don't want to watch that away. It's just crazy to me that we've been trying to like from the outside in read into cryptic Lamar Jackson. Not even cryptic Lamar Jackson tweets. He tweeted like a month ago, I will not be a Baltimore Raven anymore. I love the fans. And just now is just signed the most regular contract. What a roller coaster of a situation.

I am thrilled that it's over. I think it's good for the Ravens that they got the deal done. I think it's good for Lamar. He's the highest played playing in the league. And I'm excited to see what this team looks like next year. First of all, how dare you say that it would, you know, this was great for content. This was great for extra point taken. That's right.

That's right. For the ringer. So good job, Lamar. Good job Ravens. you know, in an off season. Without the Lamar Jackson story, it wouldn't have had quite as much juice. We got a lot of, it was funny to talk a lot more Rogers.

Yeah. Yes, which nobody wanted to hear us do. And we did not, frankly, want to do. But yeah, it was funny. We were talking about what should we, how should we format today's show? And you're like, I think we should talk about Lamar. We spent like 400 hours talking about Lamar.

And now there's been a resolution. Maybe we should chime in on the resolution. So, yeah, I had a few thoughts on the contract. I mean, number one, for all the people, you know, and we've talked about it before, the idea of Lamar Jackson not having an agent. And did it hurt? Did it seem weird at times during the process? Did it maybe hurt him at times during the process? Maybe. But guess what? He got a contract. He got the same contract. Three percent of that contract. That's going anywhere else, brother. In his pocket. In his pocket. In his pocket. And three percent of what, 260 million? You do the math. But that seems like more money than Ben and I have combined. Yes. So that's a nice, that's just something to keep in mind because that was just a huge storyline the whole time. So I don't want that to get lost. Like he did in the end negotiate a contract for himself as the highest paid player in the NFL and in NFL history. Like, you know, how many

times do the insiders tweet out, you know, a contract. Ooh, a mega deal negotiated by Agent X. We all know what's going on there. Well, mega deal negotiated by Lamar Jackson and his mother and the NFLPA. So I don't know if it's going to lead to anything, but nice job, nice job by them. In the end, also nice job by him because there's a scenario where ego really gets in the way here. You dig your heels in and you say, no, I'm not even, like, we don't even need to talk. I'm sitting out. I'm willing to miss game checks. I've come this far. This thing gets really ugly and you don't do anything. And really, you don't have leverage. And so it doesn't lead to a great outcome for you in the long run. So I don't know what happened, whether it was just the Hertz contract,

him thinking about it a little more, no one coming to the table with another offer. But, you know, that is like anyone who's, you know, thought about different jobs or whatever. It's like, you know, sometimes you think you're worth one thing and then you find out, all right, maybe, maybe I wasn't. All right, this offer right, looked better than I thought it was, you know? That's part of negotiating. Like Jason Fitzgerald, I've over the cap pointed it out. Like part of negotiating is asking for stuff and then realizing what you're actually offered and then making a decision. Like there's no harm in asking for what he asked for. Like he did himself literally no damage. He still got a great contract in the end. And he found, and maybe if he took this initially,

he would have thought he would have had regrets. And he would have said, man, if they would have given me the non-exclusive tag, maybe someone would have given me more than this. So we found out that that wasn't going to be the case. And he ends up going back to Baltimore. So yeah. And also, I would say good job by the Ravens. I mean, I don't know. how their season's going to go, but they didn't want to go there with the Watson deal. That was obvious from the beginning. They thought they were making fair deals. They did their best to just, it's a very personal situation with him representing himself, and it could have gotten to a point where it got really ugly and it just, it wasn't salvageable. I mean, I think on the show,

I thought at some point, certainly this offseason, I thought it had gotten to that point, but it obviously didn't. And so nice, nice job by them also meeting him in the middle. And I mean, I'm I mean, listen, they've got to win in the playoffs. He has to stay healthy. But the Baltimore Ravens with Lamar Jackson as their quarterback are 45 and 16. I mean, like, that's a nice place to start. That's your point. Now you zoom out and you're like, ooh, I kind of like the Ravens offseason.

They got Todd Monk to replace Greg Momen, Greg Roman. Yeah, they got Odell Beckins Jr. This was going to be my next question for you, which was, all right, now you start, now you do something you haven't done a while, which you check the Ravens' depth chart other than the quarterback position. Yes. And you go, Zay Flowers, Odobeckham Jr.,

Rashad Bateman, back from injury with Mark Andrews. Okay. You go, oh, I forgot that offensive line. Ronnie Stanley, Ben, Cleveland, title, Lindelbaum, Kevin Zitler, Morgan Moses, solid group. You go, and you're looking,

and you say, oh, the pass rush group, Odafei, O'Way, David Ojaba, coming back from injury, Justin Medibuque, Tias Bowser. That's right, Roquan Smith with Patrick Queen on this team. Kyle Hamilton has such a great end of the season. Last season, you start to put it together,

and now you got to ask the question. Ravens are now eighth in Super Bowl odds plus 1,800. I don't really care too much about Super Bowl odds at this point. Odds to win the AFC North. Bengals big favorites plus 115. Okay, that implies like a 45% chance that the Bengals are winning the division. Ravens are second at plus 260. We do this dance a lot where I'm like, the Ravens, and you go, Ben, chill out.

But I look at that and I kind of go, the Ravens? And I'm what, I, this is a good team. And they're in a weird spot overall. years-wise because they did a lot of like one-year deals with four-year void years, right? Like, that's how they got Odell into the building. Um, somebody else they signed in free agencies. Kevin Zitler right now has got one year left with four years. Nelson Agloor has got one year with four years. Gus Edwards got one-year before your void years. They did a, Michael Pierce. They did a lot of like one-year contract with a ton of void year stuff. So they're kind of like, I don't think

they're super great set for the future. They might have to like take a little bit of a lump in the 24 off season, get some young players in there, kind of reset the roster. That's what every team has to do when they sign a huge quarterback contract. But for right now, with the talent they've got in 2023, the Ravens, I like this team a lot. Yeah, I mean, just, I think in general, I have been more pro Bengals than you or anyone else on the ringer staff. I mean, we had this conversation at the beginning last season. I still like the Bengals a lot and think they're Super Bowl contenders, but you just reading those odds, I think it's probably closer than those odds would indicate. I mean, I just told you what the record is with Lamar Jackson. So if you're betting on

Lamar Jackson playing 13-ish games at least, like they're probably going to win a lot of those games. And there was a staleness around this team too. Even like contract aside, there was a staleness around this team I felt like specifically last year where it was just like they got to do something. Like they've tried this. It hasn't worked. And so one of the most exciting really coordinator hires in the offseason was Todd Munkin. Let's see what that passing game looks like. I mean, Lamar Jackson now has, would you, this probably is best past catching group he's had there,

would you say? I think so, right? Yes. Yes. And because it's new and it's a new system and it's such a dramatically different system and that they're going to like attempt to pass the football from NFL formations, new thing for them,

I would very much expect the first four, five weeks of the Ravens season to be worse, right? Like the arrow will feel like it's pointing down. The defense will win them a game or two, right? But like the passing game won't look perfect. There's going to be misses. It's going to be miscommunity. communications. And it's just okay, how many, I don't know what the early season schedule is,

but just can you get out of the rut, can you get out of the growing pains at two and two? And then I think that arrow starts to point up. So I very much expect the Ravens be that sort of team that needs a September to figure things out. And then once we get to October and this offense starts to activate, starts to gel. Defensively, I think they're really strong outside corner. I really wish they could have gotten a guy in the draft. But altogether, defensively, I think they're strong like, Ravens, we'll be on this, the show in November. And you'll be like, Ben, what's your first take? And I'll just, be screaming into the mic about the Baltimore Ravens.

Yeah, J.K. Dobbins, another year off the injury. Yeah, they've got a lot of nice pieces offensively. Like you mentioned, Corner is a spot where they still could add, but that defense was good last year, especially after they got Roquant Smith. So we will see. No more fake Lamar trades for now, maybe five years from now when we're still doing the show. We'll talk about fake Lamar trades then. All right, let's take a quick break, and we will come back with our second take.

All right, we are back on extra point taken. My second take. The Texans trade up to number three will go down as one of the most reckless trades in recent NFL history. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I touched on this a little bit on the last Ringer NFL show episode we did. And since then, I'm like, you know what? I don't think I went strong enough.

Pull send. Wait, I didn't even know. So you did this on Sunday or Friday or whatever? And then you're just back with just a big. bigger shot? Well, part of me was like, listen, not everyone's going to listen to every episode, but then I'm like, I want to dig it. I want to dig it even further. I want to get Ben's take on this. So, all right, here's what the Texans did. They traded at 12, 30. And also, I've seen other takes since then. And I'm like, all right, I need to smack this down a little bit more.

This, okay, okay, okay. When I do this, when I do this, you're always like, who's giving these takes, Ben? Ben, you got to get off of Twitter. And notice, I'm not going to do that to you. I'm going to encourage you. This is good. This is good. Get into the slop. Me deep in the muck. Here we go. See, you're influencing me. See? So they traded 1233, a 2024 first and a 2024 third for Will Anderson. So why was this such a reckless trade? Why am I going in on this so hard? Number one, you don't take a swing that big on a non-quarterback. How many non-quarterbacks currently playing in the NFL who we already know are great players would be worth that kind of compensation? Probably not a lot. I would say, if you were than 20. It might be fewer than 15. It might be fewer than 10. So don't, and now don't give me the nonsense that they were really trading for a quarterback. This wasn't like the Panthers. It's like the Panthers, their only way to acquire a top quarterback was to make that trade. The Texans had the

number two pick. They took the quarterback. They didn't need to do anything else. They could have just sat at number 12. So once C.J. Stroud is off the table, by the way, the price for number three should theoretically come down because there are going to be more bidders if quarterbacks are available. There was one of fewer quarterback available. So that's not what they did. It wasn't that they gave up this hall for a quarterback. They already, they got the court. They just needed a quarterback. They just sit there, pick the quarterback. That's all you need to do. That's one. Two, this roster still stinks. Go look at their depth chart. I mean, the draft is all about making decisions under uncertainty. I think Will Anderson's going to be a great player. I hope he's a Hall of Fame player. I hope he is

like a Texans legend when his career is over. But you know what? I don't know that. The Texans don't know that. Nobody knows that because that's what the draft is about. We all fall in love every April and then we look back a year or three years later and we're like, oh, all right, yeah, I definitely missed on that one. So think of what they gave up. Would you rather have something like Christian Gonzalez, Michael Mayer, a 24 first and a 24 third, or Will Anderson? I mean, to me, that is pretty easy that I would rather have the former, fill out more spots on your roster, get more bites at the apple, hold on to that draft compensation for next season. Now, number three in the last one, the reason I really think, why I use the word reckless, is because I think the Texans ignored

the most likely reality. The most likely reality is that they are going to be picking in the top five next season in a draft, I'll mention it again, with QB Star Power. That is a beautiful, beautiful spot to be. Because if you want to take the QB, you can take the QB, but guess what? If you don't want to take the QB, teams are going to be calling you left and right, trying to get up there for one of the quarterback. So the most likely scenario is that that 2024 first round pick is going to be worth a lot, and they gave it up because they fell in love. I like D'Amico Ryan's. I hope T.J. Stroud is going to be good. I hope Will Anderson's going to be good. but we have to make evaluations based on the information we have right now. Maybe I'll get old takes exposed when the Texans win the AFC South next year.

Will Anderson sets a record for Sacks by a rookie and C.J. Stroud is offensive rookie of the year. However, I don't, that's possible. I don't think that's going to be happening. And I think this is going to go down as a completely disastrous trade for the Houston Texan. Benjamin Sola. The record for rookie sacks is Javon Kirst 14.5. in 1999. So Will Anderson ain't doing that?

It was so good. With an extra game. I just looked that up. I very thoroughly agree. There's a lot that goes into this Texas decision, which I, I spent probably the last two weeks, three weeks of the NFL draft cycle just trying to figure out with the Texas we're going to do it too. And as anybody who was like, read a month. Knock draft's nose. We were about 24 hours out and nobody knew what the Texans were doing it too, right? I do not believe for a moment that it was a smokescreen. I believe that it was

indecision and uncertainty and disagreement within the front office, within the coaching staff, within ownership. That's why you saw like, like, this isn't even like old taste exposing. Lance Zerline, King NFL draft analyst, the man, does Houston radio say on April 25th, it will not be C.J. Shrout. Like, that's the one thing I know. And then at two, it was C.J. Stroud. Right? Like, to me, that's not smokescreen behavior.

To me, that is the Texans not knowing what they want to do internally. I also believe the Texans had no idea what they wanted to do internally because you don't see teams make back-to-back picks in the top five. Like, this is not something that is done. And when it is done, it is not something that has been done with a great success. like it this this could not possibly feel more like a scramble this could not possibly feel more like solomon splitting the kid down the middle you know oh we can't agree on who we want to take it to two let's just trade up to three and then take both the players and that way everybody's happy

like it absolutely 100% unequivocally feels like all right well fine if we have to get a quarterback then i want to trade up to three and go get will anderson why i always wanted to get or you know fine if we have to go get will anderson then you got to trade up to three to go do it because we're taking a quarterback at two. Like, it feels to me like hard lines and fake compromises where actually nobody's happy, even though we're all pretending that we're happy. This is not real analysis,

but go scroll the text and social media accounts and find the videos of the front office celebrating and the draft war room celebrating after they got the second or third overall pick. You can't find them. You find videos of them calling CJ Stroud and being like, I'm really excited to have you, but you ain't find no videos of like Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell chest thumping, which is not all front office.

do that. So like, you know, again, it's not a real analysis. But I am not, like, like, this team made two top five picks with like, like, nary a splash with not a single like firework. They just like, like, and the Texas are up at three and they're getting Will Anderson. All right. And then let's move like, you know, like it just, it does not feel to me like like, like, uh, when a team makes two top five picks, it should feel like a tectonic resetting of their team. It should seem like they have a franchise cornerstone on offense and a franchise cornerstone in defense. I'm not of the opinion that they achieved that. I like CJ Stroud a lot, but offensively, they're still so far away, then I'm not sure they're going to be able to develop him. Defensively, my line on Will Anderson

all offseason, all draft cycle was, I really like him. I'm just not sure he's a Nick Bosa, Joey Bosa, Miles, Garrett, this caliber of pass rush. He's usually drafted in the top five. Those guys got drafted without tradeups. They spent a third and then more on Will Anderson. Yes, you can say like, oh really they spent on CJ Stroud. No, they didn't. You want to say like, oh, they spent the trade-up value on a quarterback. They tried to trade up for one overall. They were at two, and they tried to trade up for one.

That is not the behavior of a team that likes two quarterbacks. That's the behavior of a team that likes one quarterback. So, then they stay at two, take a quarterback, and immediately trade up to three to take a pass-rusher. That is not the behavior of a team that really liked two quarterbacks. It just isn't. It doesn't add up. It doesn't drive.

I feel like a 1960s New War attack, something doesn't add up here, Smithers. Like, it just does not, like, it does not compute. Last but not least, this team entered the 20, 23 NFL draft,

leading the league in projected 24 NFL draft capital, and they are now dead average. This is from Timor Riske of PFF. They spent money from the, from next year to lock down C.J. Stroudon and Will And, in a move that has largely not affected their wind total on sports books.

Not a needle mover. And again, you made the great point. It very well could all work out. But whenever we talk about draft grades and doing draft examination, we talk about the information we have right now. If CJ Stroud's Peyton Manning, then we didn't know. And if CJ Stroud is Ryan Leif, then we didn't know. So, like, we have to go off the information we have right now.

The information we have right now, this was, this was, far too much risk, far too little reward for the Houston Texans. I mean, there's probably going to be a player at the spot that they're originally slated to draft next year, who they will like as much as they liked Will Anderson this year. And that's like another way to look at it. They're going to be picking high. Did not need to do it. With those quarterbacks, especially, sheesh, you got to look ahead. You got to think about what it's going to look like next year, what your roster looks like. And you're right, zooming out. It just speaks to more.

certainty who's making the calls? How are they making the calls? Was this a smart move? I don't think it was a smart move and I think it could end up being a disastrous move. All right, what do you have for your second take? We'll talk, we talk quarterbacks here. Every single one of the top quarterbacks ended up in a good spot for their development, which I know sounds like talking out the side of my mouth of the C.J. Stroud. We're going to get to C.J. Stroud. One, Bryce Young to the Panthers. Anybody could end up with the Panthers, and I would have felt good about it

because it's a great offensive line and it's frank right. Like, that's just really, I think it's a nice, solid setup. The wide receiver core isn't great. Bryce Young wasn't playing with a great wide receiver core in Alabama anyway,

if we're being honest. And Bryce Young's like, it's not like he's like an exacto timing guy and like precision routes, West Coast offense. He's always going to do scramble drill stuff anyway. And so if his receivers are like the less than exact

Leviska Chanel and Terrence Marshall at the stages of their respective careers, that's okay. I think that this is a good setup. They're going to be able to run the ball a lot, run play action, do some like the Kevin Cofansky, Baker Mayfield stuff.

They're going to be able to do some RPO stuff. I think it's going to be good for them. So I like Bryce Young and the Panthers. I probably would have anybody to the Panthers. Let's give CJ Stratt for a second. Antie Richardson have four to the Colts. Oh, baby.

Yes, sir. Is that all Shane Steichen? Ex-offensive coordinator of Jalen Hertz, bringing in another large, mobile quarterback with a great downfield arm, bringing a jumpball guy in Alec Pierce, bringing a big receiver, big target, inaccuracy eraser in Michael Pittman.

I'd love if they had a little bit of more downfield juice because Richardson's just so good at throwing vertically. However, they added Josh Downs, which not necessarily have the greatest downfield separator, really really good slot underneath guy. Maybe he helps them out a little bit more with Richardson's shallow issues,

right, where they get like a really good separator and he's a great outside of your frame catcher, whatever. But Richardson, with Jonathan Taylor, and with that offensive line, which I know that offensive line had a down year, but I think there's still talent. they're still good in the running game. The coach who knows how to make that running quarterback work,

keep that offense really, really simple, kind of hit the basics, hit the high notes. Like, that's just very nice spot. Will Levis to the Titans. I thought Will Levis was Ryan Tannihill. He is backing up Ryan Tannhill. They know how to make a Ryan Tannhill work in Tennessee. Like this, I think it's a great spot for Brable.

Obviously, it's the new offensive coaching staff, right? Tim Kelly's the O.C. There's no more Todd Downing, no more Arthur Smith, when, like, Tanhill was really, really successful. but they've seen it work with like big tough pocket passer throw in middle of the field laser beam arm good release like they know the formula here for will levis i'm interested to see how levis settles into being a backup just because obviously he was one in penn state and then he left and then kentucky and then he was the man he was the leader and obviously he had like this big draft fall and now it's a awkward

situation but from a scheme perspective i think it's a good land spot in tennessee i would love if Tennessee had a second receiver other than Trayland Berks. Yeah. This is not the way for the Brable-led offense, apparently. But still, I think it's as far as Will Levis spots go, I think it's the good as you get. Then Hendon Hooker to Lions, we get all the way down in round three, but how many times on this show, how many times in the draft show, Henan Hooker is a Detroit Lion, baby. I mean, just big old injured.

Brad Holmes will not be able to resist. Lo and behold, big old injured Hendon Hooker is a Detroit Lion. It's a good offense. him. You know what I'm saying? It's a good opportunity for him to develop. That's a great spot. DJ Stroud, I skipped because, like, it's difficult to claim that the Texans supporting team, a supporting cast, offensive line of wide receivers is good at any stage to develop somebody. I will say that I really do like CJ Stroud for Bobby Sloick and for a San Francisco 49ers style of an offense. The Ohio State offense is not,

as like under center play actiony as you as like the Kentucky one was right so the guy he doesn't fit in the Shanhan system but in reality they run like pretty traditional West Coast concepts at Ohio State and they run pretty traditional West Coast concepts in this offense and then critically for for Bobby Sloat with into OC there who worked previously with like Jimmy and Brock Purdy they're not as much like under center as they used to be they're like in the gun and they spread it out and they just kind of like use motion to like make the concept easier like it'll be very familiar stuff to to Stroud and he's ridiculously accurate which like when the quarter. If the quarterback succeed in this offense, they succeed the way by just hitting the guys.

Just hit the guys in stride and let the yards up to catch work. So I think the schematics is really good with Stroud in Texas, with the Texans, even if, like, currently the vibes are Robert Woods and Dalton Schultz. Hopefully as that gets better, it'll help CJ. That's a big difference from Marvin Harrison Jr. and Amika Buka, who are like both top 15 picks. But in general, I like the schematic hit with them. So everybody I thought landed at a spot where it works. It makes sense.

There was no moment where, like, I remember. initially when Justin Herbert landed with the Chargers being like, what? I don't know how this is going to, like, I don't know if this is going to jive. And obviously, they've kind of been figuring that out for the last couple years in terms of how that makes sense. I think everybody landed in a spot that's good for their development. And that's a huge part of talking about what quarterbacks are going to be good.

We do the whole draft process and say, this is a guy I like, this is a guy I don't like. But in reality, like, landing spot and development, stability is the perhaps number one predictor of success in these first round. drafted quarterbacks. And I think everybody got somewhere where they have the pieces in place that should be able to help them out, which is always good news. It's an encouraging thing. I think I mostly agree. Yeah, I think Bryce Young is going to be really good. I think that, you know, he's smart, he's cerebral, he's a great processor that's going to fit well for what they have there. They signed DJ Shark. You know, they've got like, they kind of threw a lot of darts at wide receiver where none of them make you that

excited, but you hope that you can kind of establish some level of competency just over the course of his season. You know, Frank Wright had what, top 12 offenses in Indianapolis with not a lot at wide receiver. So I think if you're a Panthers fan, you can be excited about that. Richardson, yeah, I'm just glad he got with a coordinator who's going to be like, we can use your legs. That'll establish a high floor for the offense. And then we'll let the passing game kind of come along, work to your strengths. There, you and I talked a lot last year about the Eagles and Jalen Hertz where they didn't make it overly complicated with their passing game. And they didn't need to, and they had one of the best offenses they've had in franchise history. So,

Richards is just such an intriguing player. I mean, not even 21, 13 starts, completed 54% of his passes last year. And if you watch his top 25 plays, you're like, oh, my gosh, this guy could be easily the best player out of this draft. So that's going to be fun to watch for sure. The Titans with Will Levis, I will say, I kind of like the Titans approach at quarterback the last two years. Neither of them might work out. They took, what, Malik Willis in the third, last year. They take Will Levis here. You mentioned Ryan Tannahill. I thought my comp for Will Levis was if Carson Wentz and Taysam Hill had a baby and that baby was just Jack. That's what I like when I That's what I thought when I looked at. Yeah, he's a big fella. Will Levis. I don't know that Will Leves is

going to be good. He's not exactly my cup of tea because I think the negative, you know, he has a lot of negative plays I feel like on film and I don't know if you're going to be able to weed those out in the NFL. However, I like the Titans approach. some of these teams, they just sit on their hands at quarterback. No, there's not the perfect guy. We're not taking one. No, we'll just wait another year. We'll wait another year.

It's not a bad idea to take some swings because guess what? Like, if they do this again next year and you go one for three, 33 percent, like, that's a win. If you get an average level starter out of three day two picks, that's a win. That's a nice use of resources. So I think that, and I think he is probably going to have to play at some point this year. I mean, Ryan Tannerhill, with kind of supporting cast there could easily suffer. injury and Will Levis

could have to play. So yeah, I like those. Yeah. I love the Titans draft. Peter Skoransky, Will Levis little Taijeet Sharp, Jalen Duncan out of the male and development health's tackle. Tai J. Spears. Tai J. Tash Sharp. I always, I always do that.

100% of the time why I mean to say Tadier Spears, I say Tajier Sharp. Would Tadj Sharp start for the Titans given their lottery Cerec? Probably. Get him on the phone. Probably. I don't know. With all this said,

I love their draft and then I look at their wide receiver room and I legitimately like tears streamed down my face. Traylin Burks, Nick Westbrook-Akekekeke, Kyle Phillips, Racy McMath, Chris Moore, Mason Kinsey, Reggie Roberson Jr., Colton Dowell. Would you tell me what schools any of the non-Tralin-Burks players went to? No, I choose not to do that. Yeah, we're not going to spend our time doing that. Yeah, you're right about that. And that's the same thing with Stroud. I mean, they trade away Brandon Cooks.

He doesn't have a lot of people to throw it to. I think their offensive line is maybe a little bit better than you were giving them credit for. I think it can be a competent. Yeah. It's not going to, I don't think that'll sink them. But yeah, certainly at wide receiver that's going to be. And also to what you pointed to, how much do they actually like C.J. Stroud? Or did they were just like, well, we kind of have to do this.

So let's do it. So we'll see there. But I think it's a good point. I think Richardson was the big one. I didn't want to see Richardson go somewhere where they were going to try to, you know, make it a tradition. offense. Yeah. Yeah.

I didn't want to see something like that. All right. We are on to know. Let's take a quick break. And then we'll come back with our third points. All right. Back on extra point taken. My third point.

I think the Pittsburgh Steelers quietly had a pretty nice offseason here. And I feel like they're a team. I feel like if someone did the graphs of minutes we spent talking about certain teams, like the Steelers would be pretty low on there. I don't remember us having many Pittsburgh Steelers conversations over the last year, but I was just looking at what they did. So I don't like talking about the team. I don't like giving him hope and happiness.

You already discussed them when you don't have a mic in front of you. But I thought they're one of my favorite drafts. You know, like they jump ahead of the Jets to get Broderick Jones in the first round. I thought that was a nice reading of kind of the market and what other teams are going to do. And I like Broderick Jones. I like investing in the offensive line there. Joey Porter Jr. in the second round, that pick was awesome of Joey Porter, senior holding Joey Porter Jr. in a Steelers uniform after Super Bowl.

Maybe I'm just a sentimental sucker dad once it gets to that point in the draft, but I thought that was so cool. Like, I'm not someone who loved Joey Porter Jr.'s film, but like he has tools to work with. I trust Mike Tomlin to coach up a player like that. And let's see what he turns into. Keanu Benton, the nose tackle in the second round. I thought a disruptive player who's going to fit in really well there. And then Darnell Washington, I thought was nice value, even though there were the medicals that pushed him down the board

at number 93. So I look at the draft. I really like the draft in free agency. They addressed the offensive line. They signed Isaac Sayamalu to a reasonable deal. I mean, he got $8 million a year. I think the Broncos signed Ben Powers to like $13 million a year. So I like what they did there. They didn't get too aggressive, but they still upgraded the offensive line. And you look at them on both sides of the line of scrimmage right now. And there's a lot to like there. And it was what a couple of years ago. It was like, man, the Steelers' offensive line is terrible. And I think they've done a nice job rebuilding that. And I think their front seven looks pretty good. Not their front seven, I guess, because linebackers not great, but their front five, I will

say, looks pretty good on defense. So I don't know, Kenny Pickett, Matt, Canada, that might limit their stealing a little bit a little bit more than you do. I thought he at least showed some things. I was thinking it last year. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I was pointing up for me to think it for sure. Yeah, I thought he definitely flat. I was just looking at some numbers. I mean, uh, I like looking at how rookie quarterbacks have performed in the first year, the ones who have gotten to play. There's been 29 over the last 10 years that have seen significant action. Among that group, he ranks 13th in EPA per pass play. So like among rookie quarterbacks, he had it above average year, uh, statistically there. You still have George Pickens, Mika Fitzpatrick, T.J. Watt,

like they've got some exciting players, uh, on that team. So again, I don't know that it's going to lead to anything. I'm not telling you, they're going to win the AFC North, their sleepy sleeper Super Bowl contender. But I just like the way they rebuilt their roster. And some of the stuff we've talked about in this show, I like when a competent organization does competent things. And you look up and you say, wow, you know, the post-Brothelpsburger era, they've actually done a pretty nice job there. So good job GMO Mark Khan. Good job, Mike Tomlin. And I like what the Steelers have done. And I honestly, I like the way they read it linebacker.

If you gave me a choice to be to Miles Jack and a Devin Bush linebacker room and Alandon Roberts into Cole Holcomb linebacker room, I'm taking the second one

because Jack and Bush always felt really redundant. They're very similar players. And then Cole Holcomb is more in that mold undersized coverage backer, right, move around, scoot around.

Alandon Roberts is a thumper, big fella. And that's like, I think it's nice to have the differences in play styles there. I think the Steelers ran into run defense problems

when they had Jack and Bush back there together. The other thing about I always kind of liked a Holcomb. Like, I haven't studied a Holcomb film, but watching a Holcomb, I'm like, when I watch him, like, just randomly, I'm like, this is not a bad little player. He's a good coverage back. Yeah.

He's a liability in run defense, but you put Atlanta Roberts next to him. And Atlanta Roberts is a defensive tackle playing linebacker. Like, this is, this makes sense. The thing about the Steelers, like, you brought up like, all right, let's go. Let's step forward for Broderick Jones. All right, we just resigned Larry Ogunjobe, but Keanu Benton's falling. We're just going to get Keanu Benton. We got an enormous Joey Porter Jr.

Press outside corner. And all of a sudden, Purdue Corner Corey Trice, who's another similar big outside press guys fall in, well, just going to take him on day three. Like, they're extremely good at just like letting the board fall to them and just like taking the good players, not making much of a fuss. The exchange on that, right, is like, all right, you might have a need that just never comes to you.

You might have a position that you want to hit and just other teams are trained up for and you can't go get your guy and it never happens. And that happened to the Steelers in this, draft. Nickel corner. They needed a nickel. They weren't able to draft a nickel. And then just on day three, very relaxed, very calmly, very quietly, sign Chandon Sullivan as a free agent. Then that's what makes the Steelers good, right? Is there no like, all right, we got to go at these guys. It's just like, okay, everybody here feel good about Channing Sullivan? Okay. Do we feel

good about Chanon Sullivan not being signed until after the draft? Yeah. All right, let's go draft. And if Keetrell Clark falls to us, right? We get a Brian Branch. We go get some of these good slot defenders, Travius Hodgson, we'll go draft one. None of them did. Somebody hit up Chandon and then just, well, Chanon Sullivan, and just round out that secondary. When you go and you look at the second team for the Steelers secondary right now, the killer Witherspoon, Levi Wally, these are all guys who had to start for them last year. Just added bodies, right? Just put guys in place and now we're going to see what shakes out in camp. So this. Steelers are just the same thing with offensive line too like that yeah guys who played for them last

year are now backups and that's that's good which they are just always continually exhaustively irritatingly well-run organization of Pittsburgh Steelers and that's why it's hard for them to end up under 500 because they're just a above average team and a league with a lot of teams that makes a lot of mistakes with a great coach for sure yes no no doubt no doubt about it all right give us your number three take and then I will finish with the extra point taken. The Seattle Seahawks are the fourth best team in the NFC. Fourth? Oh, baby! Yes. I was like four might not sound spicy enough, but I'm telling you this is spicy. Super Bowl odds, Fandle Sportsbook. Among NFC teams, Eagles are first,

Niners are second, Cowboys are third in a clear top three. After that, the Lions, a little bit further down. The Saints? What? The Packers? the Vikings, the Giants, all before you get to the Seattle Seahawks at a measly low plus 4,500. Now, Ben does not endorse betting on the Seahawks to win the Super Bowl at plus 4,500. It is underpriced, however,

and generally is a positive, expected value decision, mathematically speaking, to be taking the Seattle Seahawks plus 4,500 win the Super Bowl. The Seahawks were a playoff team last year, and it's easy to say that and be like, oh, the Seahawks are a playoff team, team yesterday. Well, yeah, so were the blocks. Like then, you know, like a, you know, so many bad teams, the division and everything. No, no, no. The Seattle Seahawks made the wildcard round

on the back of winning football games in a challenging division, right? Like, the Rams and the Cardinals certainly, like, didn't have incredible seasons last season. Carnals are picking third. I understand that. But go back and look at the NFC West. All of those games are tight, right? The NFC plays itself extremely difficult. Seattle Seahawks did this at a point of transition in a year in which they thought cycle a bunch of young guys in, start a bunch of young rookies, see if Gino Smith has got anything. They just moved on from Russell Wilson.

This was an extremely well-coached team that understood how to, where its bread was buttered, understood how to maximize their own talent, and they made it to the playoffs. And they were tight there with the 49ers for like three, three-and-a-half quarters. And then things got off the rails

and there was turnover in a big touchdown. And like the final score does not reflect the tightness of that game. They then added two first-round picks, Devon Witherspoon, my corner one a guy that Pete Carroll sounds like he is attempting to adopt

in terms of how he feels about how he plays football in terms of his football character he compared him to Troy Palomalu which Pete Carroll has like pictures of Troy Palomalu above his bed like pictures from like that Pete Carroll had when Pete Carroll was a kid of Troy Palomalu I know those ages don't match up don't stick with me

he has those same photos like he's kept them in the same posters and he's careful with them Pete loves Troy and he's comparing him to Troy Palomalu and then the pick that I think is really, really exciting is Jackson Smith & Jigba. The Seahawks so desperately needed a wide receiver three, really like functionally a target three, and Smith and Jigba was the best wide receiver in the class with a skill set over the middle of the field, tough catches, taking on contact that D.K. Metcalf and Tyler Lockett did not bring.

This is a wonderful balancing of what is now, I think, one of the, if Smith and Jigba hits, and I really like Smith and Jigba, of what I think is one of the best wide receiver trios in the league, right? a lot of like really good duos and like the niders, Braynon Ayuk, Debo Samuel and then kind of Joanne Jennings, Eagles, Debo, AJ Brown, Devanty Smith, and just kind of whatever the third guy is. Right, and they both have great tight ends there. But this, like as far as a wide receiver trio,

really, really, really impressive. There's going to be some offensive benagling. You know, this running game needs like slot receivers who block. And right now I don't think that the Seahawks have one of those. There's going to be some stuff to figure out. But in general, like the, the increase to offensive talent. I think this, this, this Seahawks team is lock, steady, ready to go to be a top 10 offense in the league. Defensively is where they struggled last season. I think

the addition of Draymont Jones is enormous. I think that they did a, they had a good approach, which was just to pepper the defensive line with draft picks, right? They took Derek Hall in the second round, took Mike Morris in the fifth round, to Cameron Young in the fourth round, right? We're just going to get bodies into camp. We need, we need to get dudes here. We can rotate, dudes who can play, and we're going to figure it out as the time goes. They're going to change the way they play their fronts. They were changing the way they could play their fronts last year because they didn't really know what they were doing.

They didn't know what their talent was. You still have to shore up that front four. But Bobby Wagner with Jordan Brooks back in the building, Devon Witherpoon, Jamal, Adams back from injury. The back seven here can play. Vak seven is legit. The front four lands. Front Force settles.

Dale Seahawks's fourth best team in the NFC. I think the Seahs are going to be legit good. I think you are not going to like to see the Seahawks on your schedule. I think he's going to be annoyed to play it within Seahawks. I think the Niners are not going to be. going to run away with this division. I think that the Seahawks are a legit, good football team, and how fun is that? Did you give me the top, the top, your top three or no during that? Eagles, I didn't, I didn't say it explicitly. I think Eagles Cowboys Niners is the chalk top three.

I don't think anybody's hitting into that. Once we talk second tier in the NFC, which to me is like lions, Vikings, Seahawks, Giants, Giants. I'm not even sure I want to get the the Giants in there. Once we're talking second tier in the AFC, I think the Seahawks are the best team there. And the Lions had the opportunity to be the best team there, okay, and hecked it. They hacked it real good, and they disappointed me. I was so excited for them this draft, but whatever. The new apple of my eyes, the Seattle Seahawks. I would have said the Lions going into the draft for sure. I don't know. I'm looking at the lions, like the players they picked, and you had the good tweet where if you just flipped around

where they took the players, would we be talking about them differently? I don't know. Now, we would be. Like, the Lions absolutely did get better. Like, they added players who are good. They got good players, yes. Right. This is very much like a relative measure where it's like, well, you could have done much better. So now the Seahawks are the fourth best.

But the thing is, for me, is like, I look at that Lions roster and I go, okay, they're going to keep winning games, same way they won games last year. And then they're going to keep losing games, the same way the lost games last year, which is Jared golf's going to be outside of his depth. And they're going to be playing in cold weather. They're going to be playing outdoors. And they're just not going to have enough in the passing game. Like, you would, okay, Jameson Williams is coming back after suspension.

but like I just don't trust golf. I've seen enough golf to know about golf. The Seahawks I look at, I go, oh, you guys can win games differently than you won them last year. You guys got a true blue chip along the defensive line in Dremont Jones, which was desperately needed.

And then you guys got a, what I think is an impactful addition to the passing game, which was desperately needed. Like by the end of last year, teams started to get wise to how the Seahawks were approaching offense in Jackson vith and Jigba.

Like you rounded out some of your rough edges in a way that I don't think the Detroit Lions did. Like, Jamir Gibbs is better than DeAndre Swift. But was the Lions running game the problem? Like, Brian Branch is a great addition to the secondary. But was covering slots the issue for the Lions?

No. It was Jared Gough. Jared Gough, and the interior run defense was the problem for this team. He had a Jack Campbell, which does help with the 18th overall pick, which is too high of a pick to be spending on a thumping between the tackles linebacker. So it's tough to probably get on board. Well, I think you look at it, and I was on, like I've spent two, much time on this podcast talking about how I thought this offseason they should have

aggressively looked to upgrade from golf. They were still sixth in offensive DVOA. They were 27th and defensive DVOA. Even though there were times where their offense didn't show up, that's true. But if you look at the larger sample, absolutely overachieved and we're one of the better offensive teams in the NFL. But yeah, I still looked at it and I didn't love what they did at all in the draft. I left feeling underwhelmed and disappointed in the first round with the Lions now. The Seahawks, I will say, I think for like the first, what, eight to 10 games of last year, I don't know what this specific range was. We all were like, ooh, this offense, it looks good, they're playing well. They finished with a bit of a whimper, obviously, and they finished 14th in

offensive DVOA. So like, they need to be more efficient on offense. Now, the reason to be bullish on the Seahawks is because they killed last year's draft, and theoretically, players get better from year one to year two. Like, they don't have an old roster. I mean, they have some old. players on their roster, but you have two tackles in a corner, two, two tackles and two corners who are young players. Three of those four players are going from their first year to their second year. And by the way, Gino Smith, you know, it's like the first time he actually got to play. He's in the same system. He could theoretically be better last year to this year. This would be his first offseason preparing to be the starter. Like last off season, it was still

like, what if Drew Locke? You know what I'm saying? Like, this would be his first off season. Like, I'll walking to Camp QB1, I'm leaving Camp QB1. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, they did a nice job. You were higher on, I liked Gonzalez over Witherspoon, but I am not going to be so brazen as to tell you I know more about cornerback play than Pete Carroll. So if he liked Witherspoon, Wetherspoon, you know, very well, probably was the better player. And I love Smith and Jigba.

I mean, those three wide receivers, if you can, if those tackles come through and you can protect Gino Smith, that is going to be absolutely a tough. offense to deal with. So yeah, I think the lions and Seahawks are probably right there in four and five. I need to think about whether I'm over-indexing my feelings on what the lions did in the draft. I need to sit back and say, do I need to take a breath and come August say, no, no, no, the lions are still really good. So we'll see if I get there. But yes, no doubt Seahawks were a winner. All right, I will finish us off with my extra point. My extra point, Ben is everybody quit your whining about draft greed. Okay, the Ms. Evans every Monday, every Sunday,

every Monday after the draft, everyone gets on their high horse. You can't create a draft to two or three years in. First of all, that's wrong. The draft is about making decisions under uncertainty. The teams actually should be evaluated based on what they did with their resources given the information we know at the time of the draft. What good three years from now, yeah, we can all go on pro football reference and point out who the good, but what fun is that? That's like after a game is played saying this team won, yeah, we all know that team one. That's not what this is all about.

There's no mystery three years later. Are we not allowed to discuss the upcoming season? Like, can I not tell you who's going to be good? Because we just have to let the season play out. And then I'll tell you who's going to be good. No, that's not how it works. This is the same thing. So that's number one.

It's absolutely wrong to say you have to wait three years. And number two, more importantly, it's only freaking football. Can we calm down? Like, stop your whining. Do you know how many stupid things we argue about in football in sports? That's literally all that we do. We come on with these mics and we argue about dumb stuff like somebody's paying us. We thank you.

Spotify, the ringer, nice job by you. Yeah, absolutely. Love it. Great. Thank you for doing that. Good decision. It's the nature of this podcast. It's the nature of the end.

industry, why do people get so bothered about draft grades? Like, seriously, who cares is people offering opinions about how they think teams performed? If your opinions turn out to look ridiculous, and many of mine have over the years, then you get called out for it. And that's okay. That's part of it. So everyone just settle down. You don't know what's making you click on draft grades, listen to draft grades, redraft grades. But you know what? I like them. Danny Kelly, I thought you did a great job with the ringers He was stressing over him. He was working hard. Yeah. Bell curve. I got to give out some Cs. He knew.

He's good stuff. Yeah. He knew. Hard work by a man trying to feed his family. That's right. It's analysis from an informed writer. I like reading that. You know what? At the end, I get a letter. I like getting a letter. It tells me how did this person actually feel about how the team did. So good job, Danny Kelly. If you're doing draft grades, it's okay. we support you. To everyone else, it's going to be okay. Take a deeper.

Listen, there are a lot of English teachers back in Strausburg High School who are now wishing that instead of putting a B on my paper, they put a, this wasn't that great, but you might end up a writer eventually.

And so we'll grade this at a later time. Right? Yeah. If there were no value in draft grades, which is essentially, here's how you did relative to the consensus. Board, here's how you did relative to consensus expectations.

here so he did well as it to the draft trade value boards, then there would be no reason to watch the players beforehand. If it were not meaningful to see which teams drafted the players that we thought were good players, then we would not have three months of draft coverage. It would just let the players go into the draft cycle. They'd get picked. Fans of the Steelers would watch some Keanu Benton and some Broderick Jones. Fans of the Seahawks would watch them, Devon, Wismund, and Jackson Smith and Jigba.

Everybody would say, wow, we all got the best players. And then we would just move on from there. Like, this has to be meaningful. This has, absolutely 100% has to be the case that we say, okay, now with the information we have, who did well and who didn't. And then in three years, we'll redo it. And you guys will click on that too. And the Kapadi and Solac families will remain fed.

And by the way, to you 2024 mock drafters out there, I'm going to read yourself too. Oh, what do I look better on a Tuesday after the draft than reading the next year's mock draft? It's literally be the first thing I click. on tomorrow morning. While I was like thinking about my day, this morning, get ready for the pot, I was like, oh, you know what? Like, I should actually watch some Drake May film because I really haven't like sat down and watched him yet. And then my head went, you sick, sick man, you just

disgusting, you sick boy. Absolutely not. You are not allowed. But that was my thought. I was like, what, what better time to watch a little Drake May than 363 days before the next NFL draft? We got time. This is our only downtime of the year. We have to find some way to use it other than fishing and golfing and stay connected to football. All right, that will do it for this episode of Extra Point Taked. Thank you to Ben Solac. Thank you to Cliff Augustine for producing additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal. We will be back talking to you next Monday on the Ringer NFLP.

Until then, everyone, have a great week.