The Ringer NFL Show - Kyler's Last Game With Kliff? Plus, Brady Don't Go Back, GM Talk, and More Big Takeaways from Week 14 | Extra Point Taken

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

Ben and Sheil get together to share their reactions to the Patriots' victory over the Cardinals on 'Monday Night Football.' They then discuss some possible destinations for Tom Brady next season, and examine a Lions team that is building steadily toward sustained success (6:55). Next, Ben details the apparent changing of the guard in the AFC South, while Sheil gets excited about the Dolphins' schedule heading toward the playoffs (31:53). Ben ends the pod with the weekly extra point (55:28). Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Ben Solak Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mac Jones is ripped. Matt Patricia's calling plays. The Celtics are title favorites. And The Ringer has a new Boston show. I'm Brian Barrett, host of Off the Pike, the show covering all things Boston sports. I'll have shows multiple times a week covering your favorite teams and with your favorite ringer and local guests.

Plus, maybe Bill will stop by to rant about the socks. Follow off the pike with me, Brian Barrett, now on Spotify. Welcome to Extra Point Taken. I'm Shield Capote. As always, joined by Ben Solac. We come to you every week after Monday night football where we watch the Patriots, take care of the Cardinals, 27, 13. Benny Souls, if the season ended today,

the New England Patriots are your seven seed going to Kansas City to take on the Chiefs as what I would imagine would be big underdogs. How are we doing tonight? Yeah, like that was a game. Football players played football plays. That was a, the, the Kyler injury was just devastating. It was just, it was scary. It was uncomfortable.

You hate the non-contact injuries. He was devastated on the cart. And then everything that followed was just bad football. And you're like, man, I really wish that really talented scat quarterback runaround guy was out here. It made things a lot better. So the earlier reports on Kyler are pretty bad. It puts the Cardinals in a tough spot. I was kind of, I was trying to figure out a take off of Monday Night Football that was about

Kyler being injured and the rest of the season for the Cardinals and what it means for Cliff and Steve Kahn, the general manager. And I just have nothing. Like, they, it's very evident that, that Cliffs, not suited for an NFL head coaching job. It's very evident that Steve Kimes

not suited for an NFL general managing job. It's been evident for a while. They were four and eight with Kyler. Obviously, he was out for a couple games. Four and nine now. They don't Kyler for the rest of the season. But Kyler's the franchise. They extended him.

So if you're going to be a losing team and you extended your quarterback, then the other parts of the nucleus have to go. But that's been evident for a long time. So I don't know, like, if the Kyler injury is the straw that breaks the camel's back and forces the bidwell family to make a change at head coach and a change at general manager, sure,

but that's bad. That's bad process because it took your mobile quarterback getting a major knee injury for you to then change the people around him to maybe finally win some football games with them. It's too little too late once the injury comes. Maybe like, you don't know he's going to recover, yada, yada, whatever, but you don't want to be making it on the back half of the injury. You want to be making it before and when he's so healthy

and you know that you've got him. So, like, I was trying to come up with that take. I couldn't get anything going there. I was trying to come up with a Matt Patricia, calling 10,000 screens take. And I was like, now everybody knows this. This isn't interesting. Josh Uche had like two and a half sacks.

I was trying to come up with a, let's talk about how Ben, dude. Josh Uche was good coming out of the 2020 NFL draft take. I didn't feel important enough to start the show. Yeah, I don't want that one. Or two rookie running back scored touchdowns to the New England Patriots tonight. Belich things, right?

we talked about Belgics coaching a couple pods ago. There you go. Just going back to that nonsense. A lot of things happened. I do not have a big Monday night football take out of the game. So you, listener, take any one of the four you want, decide that that's the important one for you. Here, I'll put it into a sentence for you, okay, because you said it, but it feels like

Kyler Murray has played his last game for Cliff Kingsbury to me. I mean, that, that, you know, is a take. I've been feeling that way since 2021. Yeah, I mean, I don't think the injury had anything. to do with it, but you look at the last year for this Cardinals team. I mean, you have the disastrous end to last season. You have the bad wildcard game. You have Murray's agent lobbying in the media for an extension. You have Cliff Kingsbury and Steve Kime inexplicably getting extensions. Then Murray gets the extension with the homework clause. Then they remove the homework clause. Then you have two

members of Kingsbury's, two members of Kingsbury's coaching staff fired for all field transgressions. they finally get on the field. They're sloppy, disorganized. Kyler's yelling at Cliff. Cliff's yelling at Kyler. They're calling terrible timeouts. The clock management's terrible. The on-field product is terrible.

I mean, they're 28, 33 and one in Cliff Kingsbury's four years as an NFL head coach with one playoff appearance and zero playoff wins. I mean, that usually does not get it done four years in. Now, normally you don't get an extension based off of that. So who knows what will happen. But it'll be an interesting offseason. for them because, as you said, the early reports, Josh Weinfuss of ESPN reported a source saying, like, there's little doubt that it's a torn ACL for Kyler Murray, so they don't have full confirmation,

but that's what they're thinking, which would mean that's going in to next year. You have the sixth overall pick in the draft. Like, all of a sudden, it turns to a pretty big off season. So that's what I felt was my take, like, all right, you know, he played three snaps today. Those are the three snaps. the last three snaps, he's probably played for Cliff Kingsbury in what could be an interesting coaching opening this offseason. Here's the best, here's the real fun, Cliff Kingsbury stat.

Since January 1st, 2021, it's December 22. It's two calendar years. The Cardinals have won four home games. All right? They've won one this season. It was a Thursday night football game against the Saints. Andy Dolan through multiple pick sixes. Now is the Cardinals first home win in 11 months.

That's the most recent home win. The most recent one beforehand, 31 to 5 over the Houston Texans in week 7 of last season. Christian Kirk had a touchdown. Chase Edmonds at 15 carries. Cardinals were 7 and 0. Since then, they're like 1 and 9 at home. They lost in a wild card.

This was 7 and 0. And they've won one home game since. That was October of last year. Holy, we were in masks, man. This was a long time ago. It is, they cannot handle business. They just are not professional football team. They do not handle the stuff

that professional football team is supposed to handle. Embarrassing franchise. The graphic tonight that said Cliff Kingsbury had not won a challenge since 2019. Did you see that one? I was like, wait, that can't be right. I'm not going to look this up with that.

If that's right, that is pretty wild. All right, we don't need to talk more about that game. If you're new to the program, this is what we do. We swap takes. We each have three. That was Ben's first one off of Monday night football. And Ben will have an extra point at the end.

We don't know what each other's takes are going to be. We just let them rip and see where we go. All right, so mine is sort of Monday night football adjacent, my first take. So Patriots win that game. Did not look great offensively. Once again, you mentioned it. I think they had thrown 11 screens at least in the fourth quarter. Mack Jones going at Matt Patricia.

once again in what has become sort of a weekly occurrence here on the field. And so there's been some speculation. You know, our Bill Simmons was on the Manningcast tonight. He did a podcast. You were on his podcast a couple of weeks ago where he had a segment about could Tom Brady potentially return to New England as a free agent in 2023? And my take is Tom Brady returning to New England would be a complete disaster for everybody involved. It is a horrible idea. I understand the nostalgia. Listen, I remember when the six years,

oh, we're going to bring Alan Iverson back. Oh, yeah, that'll be fun. We had some fun years. That didn't end well. This would not end well. And I'm watching Tom Brady on Sunday against the 49ers in a non-competitive game. He has not looked good the last two to three weeks, I would say. You know, I think earlier in the season, I was watching him going, it's not Brady. It's the offensive line. It's the weapons. Recently, Brady's missing a lot of throws. You can tell. He does not want to get hit at all. That's been the case all season long. He averaged 4.6 yards per attempt in that loss to the 49ers through two interceptions. It was a disaster. I mean, the bucks are six and seven. They're still positioned to win the NFC South, but this is a bad team.

And now you look ahead. I mean, I swear when I was researching this pod, then there are like six different articles in different areas of the country of could this team be the team for Tom Brady in 2023. You're seeing it New Orleans. You're seeing it San Francisco. I mentioned it with Bill and New England. The Raiders rumors are going to be out there. The Patriots issue, and I'm not like, you know, Matt Jones fan number one,

but to just think that quarterback is their issue is nuts to me. I mean, to think Tom Brady could go to this team where the offensive line has been a little bit up and down, where they do not have weapons comparable to any really good team in the NFL. I mean, that's spending spree a couple of years ago with Hunter Henry, John Hussmith, Nelson Aguilar, Kendrick Borne. That was a disaster for Bill Belichick.

And then you talk about Brady's going to be 46 years old. He's averaging 6.2 yards per attempt, Ben. That ranks 31st out of 33 quarterbacks. That's with Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Russell Gage. And now he's going to go to New England and play for Matt Patricia and Joe Judge. Or who knows? Maybe they bring in Bill O'Brien. Maybe they bring someone else in.

But to me, it's a terrible idea. this is not your dad's AFC East. There's a man named Josh Allen in the division. The Jets are not the Jets of old. The dolphins are a much improved team. And you're talking about the conference. Tom Brady's going to go back to New England and now compete with Mahomes and Allen and Herbert and Burrow.

So I just think it would be a terrible idea all the way around. It would be a nostalgic move, in my opinion, if it were to happen or if it were to get serious, it would be a Robert Kraft move saying, this hasn't gone so well since we got rid of Tom Brady. Let's bring him back and try to get one more year. But I think it would end poorly for everyone involved. And they should cut that off before they even strongly consider it.

Your thoughts? It's inevitable because Tom is who he was. He means to New England what he meant to New England. New England's at this stage of their team and Bill Belichick's at this stage of his weird coaching decisions. And it's not fun. And it's not great. there's seven and six, but it feels ugly.

So it was inevitable. But, yeah, there's no merit to it. Brady doesn't solve most of the problems, right? Now, if Brady comes in and because he's Brady and he kicks down the door, he goes, Matt, Patricia out, go get me, you know, that Bill O'Brien or just like some other cast off of this Patriot's isn't. And then, like, even then, like, Bill O'Brien, there's a lot to be said about Bill O'Brien. I'm actually going to bring a Bill O'Brien on a later take on this pod.

somehow. Regardless, he's called offense before. There's a lot to be said about. What phrasing. I love it. He has called offensive football before for several years in a professional level, something that cannot be said for Matthew Patricia, who is currently doing so for the New England Patriots. But even if Brady's clout allows him to say, like, we need to do this, bang, or like, you know, Nelson Aguilar, or Kendrick Boren, Jacoby Myers,

Devon de Park, this isn't good enough. We have to go get this phrase, and they do. Like, even if Brady's presence in New Mexico, England leads to improvement at offensive play caller where there's been such an issue, improvement at Pascots where there's been such an issue. The team is in disarray. I don't fully understand why. I think Bill Belichick is the best coach, but the team's in disarray.

And it's lovely to think that, oh, yeah, if we just get Tom back, then everything will feel like 2008 again. That's pie in the sky. It's a nice fable. I don't think it would occur. I also don't think that, I think like the Patriots would want it because even at Tom at this stage in his career, I think is an improvement over Mac Jones. I don't see why Brady would want it. Just like, you won a Super Bowl in Tampa.

You made your point. You were, you know, middle-aged dad drunk being escorted around on a boat, tossing the Lombardi over the water. You did it. You could have got out nice and clean. You could have retired. You chose not to. That was a mistake. But you did it.

You made your point very clearly. Take your ball and go home. And that's okay. It's all right to end a career with seven, eight? How much are you going? That's not happening. Yeah, seven, I think seven, right? It's okay.

So just be like, I won seven, I overall won. I don't need to go back and try to run this back and make another point. Take a ball and go home. I don't think that's going to happen. I think he's going to continue to play. I don't think he's going to be ready to retire. Do you have a favorite team for, because here are the two that I was looking at, looking at this and looking at the other teams.

I don't think he should go to New England. There's some smoke around the Saints potentially bringing Sean Payton back. There was a column by Jeff Duncan, who has been writing in New Orleans for a long time, who wrote a book on Drew Brees and Sean Payton saying if Sean Payton wants to come back, Sean Payton should be the Saints head coach. We know that the dolphins tried to collude with Sean Payton and Tom Brady. They shared the same agent and bring them together. So that one kind of cut my attention.

If he just stays in the NFC, stays in the NFC South, very winnable. if Sean Payton goes back to New Orleans and Tom Brady goes there, you have a lave, you have a good offensive line, maybe you make a couple more moves. We know the Saints are all in every year. So it's not like pushing all their chips in is going to be anything different. And the Raiders are the other interesting name that I think we have to look at because to reunite with Josh McDaniels. We know they tried to before you have Devante Adams, Hunter Renfro, Darren Waller. And by the way, you can trade Derek Carr and you can get some draft capital to a address other areas of the roster.

My only hesitation there is, do you really want to be in that division? If you really want to win a Super Bowl, do you really want to be in that division with Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert and in that conference with Alan and Burrow? When it feels so lopsided right now, the AFC and NFC with the quarterbacks. Does he want to win a Super Bowl? That's a good, it's a very good question. Here's my thing. He does, because that's what football players want to do.

But I have to imagine after you win seven, you're kind of like, there's other stuff. Enjoy the day to day. Yeah, there's something to be said for that. I'll put it to you this way. Like, Super Bowl,

I was going to do, I put a hand up ranking, like tier things and people can't see me. If winning a Super Bowl is here, insert hand at a certain level, where on this imaginary scale is like setting lifetime achievement records

that'll never ever be touched in terms of like career passing yards, career passing touchdowns. Like how much does, hey, let's go to Las Vegas with Josh McDaniels. And then I'm going to, pass the ball 68% of the time.

I'm going to throw to Devante Adams as much as I want. We're never going to run the ball in the red zone. And I'm going to have six trillion bagillion career passing touchdowns. And then my name is going to be in the record books forever. Like, I'm not going to even remotely attempt to enter the psyche of 45-year-old Tom Brady, whose life could not be more radically different than mine.

But in my head, like, that would matter a little bit more. Like, what does the eighth ring do relative to being able to be like, I, no one's ever going to touch this record because no one's ever going to play another 46? If he wasn't playing another season, I just wonder, like, legitimately, how much does Super Bowl actually matter? Yeah, I don't even know if it's the numbers, but I think it's the feeling of at the end of the game, feeling like that was fun. I'm still able to do it. I've got my guys.

Like, look at him now. He's miserable. And so I do think there's something to be said for that. So we'll see. My take is just, don't go back to New England. You know, Robert Kraft, don't do it. Tom Brady, don't do it. It's going to sound good.

It's going to feel good. It's not going to end well for you. there. All right, Benjamin, what is your next take? All right, the Detroit Football Alliance, six and seven, winners of five of their last six, should have freaking beat the bills, had the bills came in hand, still bothered. I was at my in-laws in Michigan,

watching with Detroit fans saying, they're going to beat these bills, and they made me look like an idiot. I don't appreciate it. But anybody who's been listening to ExtraPointe taking knows, we've been here, right? Jared Goff, when they have a Monroe, St. Brown healthy, like this offense's been working.

The bills surge now has them. at a 20% chance to make the playoffs. One game out of the NFC, or excuse me, one and a half game out, because the freaking tie. Out of the NFC wildcard picture, Ceox are seven and six.

They're within range. You have a lion's take coming up. You knew I had a lion's state coming in. You told me you think we're going to disagree. I don't think we will because I don't think my take's going to be anywhere near where your take is. I think it's going to be two totally different categories. It might be a different topic.

Yeah, a lot of talk about Jared Goff, potential, you know, starting quarterback for the Lions in 2023. A lot of talking about Dan Campbell, coach of the year, analytics, fourth down decisions, plus also culture. My take is Brad Holm should win executive of the year.

Howie Roseman had himself a day in Philadelphia. And Howard Rosemann's had himself a few days. Let's talk about the way Brad Holmes rebuilt this frigging Lions team, man. Do you remember what Bob Quinn left? Do you remember the shambles that this roster was in? And you can't win it for your achievements for two. years. But let's just remember how well this Jared Gough

trade is working out for the lines to the point where their offense is functional. They've had development at wide receiver. They've had proof of concept with office coordinator Ben Johnson. When you make the Matthew Stafford trade and you, oh, you kind of get Jared Gough back and I drafted him with the Rams, I know him. Obviously, you're

trading away a good quarterback for a not as good quarterback. Everybody knows, except for the people who are willinglyly ignorant about it, i.e. nerds. Everybody knows that Stafford's better than Gough. But if you get a really bad quarterback back in that trade, you stumped your opportunities for offensive development. The Rams didn't, or excuse me, the Lions didn't do that. They got Gough now only paying him $30 million per year because the Rams took on a lot of his money, which is good value for a

quarterback of golf's caliber, right? He's done remarkably less than cousins, remarkably less than Tanna Hill, and also executing the offense to the point where you can evaluate your wide receivers, evaluate your running backs. Let's talk about those players. Let's talk about Jamal Williams, year $6 million deal in free agency last year. Jamal has become the lead back for them because DeAndre Swift hasn't panned out as much. Let's talk about the fact that in this past off season, 2021 off season, the Lions of Brad Holmes came under heavy fire for not signing a ton of free agents, for not going out and getting big market players.

You know the one player they got was DJ Chark, one year four million dollar deal. It's been a perfectly solid wide receiver for them on the outside. They re-signed Khalif Raymond, drafted Jameson Williams, all forward-facing moves. All we need is see what we can do at wide receiver long term. We're not going to pot commit to anybody, except for the fourth round pick that I nailed in Amon Ross St. Brown. Yeah, yeah, fourth round star receiver. Don't mind me, Brad Holmes developing out my offense. It's talking about defensively resigning Tracy Walker, who was playing great football, got injured,

and then third round rookie Kirby Joseph steps in. And Kirby Joseph is playing lights out of third round rookie. Their other free agent, Deshaun Elliott, right, who knew Brian Duker, the safeties coach. One year, I think it's, what, $4.5 million deal? Solid player for them. Let's talk about Malcolm Roderigan. is working. Let's talk about James Houston, undrafted free agent rookie stepping in and being a designated pass pressure. Brad Holmes killed this from step to CERN. Now, here's what's really important.

Brad Holmes killed this with the intention of not pushing all the chips in, of waiting, of being patient. They did not sign big contracts. They signed one-year deals. Everybody, they resigned, everybody they brought in one-year deal, two-year deal. They have a ton of expiring contracts in the next couple years because they wanted to sit and see all right if by the end of 2022 do we really know if this is going to work independent of what happens with the Lions 20% chance to make playoffs

independent of beating the bill or losing the bills and beating the Vikings and all this proof of concept I mean like they're going to have to fight to not lose offensive coordinator Ben Johnson in the head coaching cycle fight not to lose defense coordinator Aaron Glenn in the head coaching cycle they know that this nucleus works

Campbell, Johnson, and Glenn. Goff gives them a functional quarterback entering next season in the event that they don't like any of the rookies. And when you go and you read what Brad Holmes has said after the drafts, 2020, he said, yeah, if there was a quarterback we liked better than Penteau, we would have drafted him. That was 2021. 2022 draft, he said, yeah, the quarterbacks were properly rated.

The quarterbacks went in the draft where we thought they would, right? We had pick it the early note that he implied we had Malik Willis around three, be a desperate around three. He has had top 10 picks and not taking quarterbacks, which means if Brad Holmes looks at this rookie class and don't like C.J. Shroud too much, and thinks Bryce Young's too small. Thinks Bill Levison's too raw.

They'll bring Jared Gough next year. They have proof of concept. But Holmes set up this year, this off season, to be the fork in the road. Say, okay, we're going to get the guys in that we think are good. We're going to DJ Chark one-year deal. We're going to Deshawn Elliott one-year deal. We're going to see if we like what we got. and if we do, then we can shove these chips in.

That's good team building. Now get quarterback right because you just did everything Chris Ballard did for two years. And then what happened? You couldn't finish it. Couldn't finish the job. And they had that Rams pick and they have the top five pick. So huge inflection point for Brad Holmes. Huge inflection point for the Detroit Lions.

Independent of anything that happens next, this offseason could catapult them to the top of the NFC North or could totally submarine this whole thing. But right now, man, give me a. executive of the year award, let me hand it to Brad Holmes. There are so many flowers right now for Dan Campbell, for Ben Johnson, for Jared Goff. Brad freaking Holmes. Unbelievable. Perfectly executed two-year turnaround. Cherry on top comes this offseason in the quarterback position. Can't wait to see it. Yeah, I'm on Ra and Jameson Williams. I mean, that for years to come is very fun.

Jerry Jacobs, man, Jeff Okuda goes down on this game. He's still banged up. Jerry Jacobs, undersized, undrafted Freezing Corn out of Arkansas. He's lights out. Inside out versatility. Mike Hughes. Won your contract, Mike Hughes. He didn't miss that all offseason, man.

Aidan Hutchinson had a series in that game against the Vikings that he took over. He had two big plays and ended a series against Minnesota. I forgot this was supposed to be my lead in point. It was going to make a real kicker. So take me back to the beginning. This team traded away T.J. Hawkinson.

you remember that? This team traded away. Second round pick. They got a second round pick back for a tight end. This is a tight end that people are like, yeah, it's a top five, top 10 tight end. This is a legit receiving top 10 tight end. They didn't feel it.

He traded away Hawkinson and the team didn't burp. That's bananas. The make that move and then the coach staff doesn't even sweat. That's incredible work, man. That's so sick. Yeah, it's always hard to separate personnel from coaching. I mean, I look at it on paper and look at, at the pieces on offense and go, that is a, like, outstanding coaching job. I mean, I agree with

pretty much everything. You said there, just looking at those pieces on paper, if you would have told me coming into the season that they're going to operate like a top eight offense, I would have gone no way. In fact, I'm sure wherever I ranked them before the season, you know, I think they were in the 20s, probably. So, yeah, he's done a good job. And it leads right into my point, Ben, about the Detroit Lions. Jared Goss playing really well. There's no doubt about it. But my, I think we've gone a little too far. If the Lions like a QB in this draft, they have to take him. I thought we're going to disagree? You thought I was going to back Jared Gough? You don't know me. We're not pals. I'm not friends. Well, I have heard talk that Jared Goss could be the guy next year and, you know,

they don't need to. They can just upgrade the rest of the roster and go with Gough. And to me, that would be a listen, if you don't like the quarterbacks, that's one thing, like you said, but this is your chance. You are drafting right now. What is it? Number four, overall, baby, that Rams pick is looking good. You are set to draft number four that could go higher. We don't know which quarterbacks will be available right there, but like you said, you've built it, you've built all around that quarterback. You've been patient. At some point, at some point, you have to pull the trigger and find your guy. You want the guy who can elevate the offense, not be a function of the offense like Jared Gough. Again, he's playing well.

Statistically, he's been a top five. He's fifth in EPA per play. I mean, that is ridiculous. The Lions are seven in offensive DVOA. Golf was dealing against the Vikings. You also might have noticed he had a lot of time back there. You also might have noticed the wide receivers were making plays. It's a very nice spot for a quarterback to be in. If you are the Lions, you are chasing sustained success. Do you know the last time they made the playoffs in back-to-back years? Were you even born? I have no idea when you were born. Caldwell?

No. They do a Caldwell? No. They only did once? 94-95. Yeah. So I was born 97. Oh my God.

Get it. All right. End the podcast. Chris, end the podcast. I'm going solo. The rest of the... A couple years ago, 97 was annoying. You got guys making plays in NFL games who were born like 99.

All right? Brock Purdy's out here. Purtty was born in 1999. I get mad at him. So, no, you want to chase sustained success. They haven't had it. I mean, if you're a alliance fan, you're going, we've never had this. We've been alive for a long time. And we've never had this. They haven't gotten past the wildcard round since 1991. And so they're in such a good position. It doesn't mean you have to bid farewell to Jared golf. It means if, you know, if you sit there, four, if you get to three, let's just say for, hypothetically, you did your scouting on C.J. Stroud. You like C.J. Stroud. Either he can come in and play

right away. He can sit a little bit. He can come in in the middle of the season. You have golf on a reasonable contract. Like you said, the offense works with him, but you have to make that move to find that guy who's going to be the elevator, who's going to put you in the mix year in and year out with the talent around them. And so they're so well positioned right now. And I hear some of the chatter. It probably applies a little bit to the Seahawks in Gino Smith. Honestly, it's a very similar situation, in my opinion, you might disagree. But I think you have to take the swing on the quarterback here if you're the Lions because also the roster is good. The team's pretty good. You're not going to be picking this high again anytime soon unless something goes terribly wrong.

And so you can't always be looking for the perfect guy. You can't always say, we're going to wait for Caleb Williams. 30, you know, 25 teams are going to be waiting for Caleb Williams next year. If you like a guy, you have to take him. You still have the 15th pick. And I don't know. I guess I would maybe I'm, I hope I'm not arguing a straw man here. I feel like I have heard a little buzz that they can just roll with golf next year, upgrade the roster and they're good there. They don't have to force quarterback. But I feel like this is their chance to really pounce and set themselves up for the next five, six, seven, eight years.

Absolutely. No, this, they like what I was workshopping this, this lion's take that I ended on Brad Holmes. one of the things I was thinking about saying was the take is the lines are going to make the playoffs and it's one of the worst things that can happen to them because they're going to make the playoffs and then ownership and Brad Holmes who Brad Holmes loves Jared Goff. He's very effusive in his praise for Jared Goff.

He's going to be like, hey, took us to the playoffs. Run it back because he is cheap. He's $30 million. That's good value for a player like Goff. And I think ideally they walk into training camp next off season. Goff taking quarterback one snaps,

a rookie taking quarterback two snaps. And then you have an on- board, right? You have the ability to bring a Will Levis on and, you know, start him in week five or in week eight or in week 13 or whenever kind of golf turns back into a pumpkin, wherever the clamoring starts, whatever it ends up being. So he's a good guy to have

in Puckkin. You can do him in a rookie. It's just if they were to like make the playoffs as a seven seed. They play the Vikings as the two seed. They beat the Vikings. They just did it, so it's possible. They're playing in the divisional round. It's really hard to move on from a quarterback after you play in the divisional rounds.

So there's a way they talk themselves into it. So I don't think it's a strong man. I think it's certainly possible. The thing with golf is very simple. We know what happens when he enters the playoffs and plays playoff defenses. We've seen it happen. We've seen playoff defenses talk about it, right? We brought this up on the ringer NFL show, the preview show on Friday a couple

weeks ago. But Mike Girardi reported during the 2018 Super Bowl, right, Rams Patriots, that like Patriots, defenders, and Bill Belichick were effusive in their praise to Jared Gough in front of mics. And then behind closed doors, they were like, yeah, if we show this guy somebody's never seen before, Bill, he'll quote, Mike Girardy,

bleep in his pants was what Mike Durrity said on NFL network. Because Goff is in that middle tier of quarterbacks that great from the pocket, he's got good size, he trusts his receivers, he's got an arm, he can make all the throws, beautiful touchdown on the field. There's a lot to like about Jared Gough, but he's limited as a creator. He's limited under pressure.

He's a sort of quarterback where if you can get a grain of sand in the operation, he doesn't elevate as much. And he's more veteran than he was. So he makes fewer backbreaking mistakes. But the mistakes are still there. It's just, it's not the sort of horse you want to hit your wagon to. It's fine in 2021 when you're figuring out what you are. It's fine in 2022.

When you feel better but you're not sure yet, when you're sitting there with that pick, burn a hole in your pocket, top five pick, it's really hard to pass on this class for another year of Jared golf, especially you get mired of that mediocrity, right? You get stuck in that spot where we don't have the Rams future pick and we are always good enough that we are not getting a top 15 pick and now we have to trade the farm. We have to do what Kyle Shanahan did to go get that rookie.

This is your window. You don't want to force it. If you don't like a guy, you don't like a guy. That's okay. But you kind of have to force it a little bit because you need to start thinking about the future after Jared Gough. I will be fascinated. Ring around NFL draft shows.

starting this week, by the way. We'll be talking about this. Me, Danny Kelly, and did a high for you go subscribe. I'll be fascinated to see how the lines feel about Bryce Young. Because I think as a competitor, as a creator, accuracy, I think they're going to love them. I also think that Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell like large human beings on their football team.

And a large human being, Bryce Young ain't. And there's a chance they're extremely split in the building on Bryce Young and what he might mean for them at their pick. And that's going to be a huge storyline to watch throughout the whole season. Also, listen, they're four, they might not get a shot at either the top two guys. So we've got to see how the final month here

plays out. But yeah, maybe the take maybe should have been the Lions can't let this taste of success sort of alter their offseason plans. Because that's really what we're talking about here when we talk about Detroit and what they're going to do. Listen, Gossvin, a great story. I saw him break the team down. I saw that clip. I think he was there.

Walter Payton Man of the Year nominee. it's normal when that trade happened, no one expected sort of this to be the second chapter of Jared Gough's career and good for him for making the most of it. But like you said, if you look at the previous three years, he's a mediocre to below average quarterback. You don't want to get fooled by this year when the circumstances are so good.

Good for him for performing. And let's see if they can sneak into the playoffs. That would be certainly a fun story, but you can't let it change your off-season plans. All right. What do you got next? All right. So, dual take. Titans Jags played this past Sunday.

Jaguars beat the Titans in Nashville after nine consecutive losses. The take is that this is a changing of the guard in the AFC South. Not yet. Probably two few games left. Titans won their close games. Jags have lost a lot of their close games. The Jags have a chance still to win the division. These teams play again in Jacksonville in Week 18.

The last time the Jags had a divisional opponent in Week 18 last year, They had a hoot and a holler at home. There's a chance they're playing another very meaningful and hilarious game. But they, you know, both teams face Dallas. The Titans have the Chargers up coming next week. Both teams get Houston. If the Jaguars lose to Dallas but then win out and then the Titans lose to the Chargers, yeah, there's a chance that that week 18 game matters.

But put that to the side for right now. This is a changing of the guard over the next couple years. The first half of the take is because Trevor Lawrence is playing the best football we ever dog on saw Trevor Lawrence play. We talked last month about wanting to see more from Lawrence. He's really stepped up to the plate. Their young receivers have done a lot better. The Jaguars are one of the most beautifully positioned young teams, I think, in the league, right?

They have good, young, developing, impressive players on defense. Tyson Campbell's been a good corner for them. They've had ups and downs with Devin Loy, but he's shown enough that I think you're excited about his athleticism. You're excited about his growth. Trayvon Walker and Josh Allen. There's stuff to hang your hat on there. Offensively, the offensive line's going to need some retooling. receiver. I think they spent a lot of money. Didn't get exactly the returns they were looking for.

Evan Ingram hero game, nonwithstanding. But Calvin Ridley's come in and they got Trevor Lawrence, who looks like all that in a bag of chips, and they got Doug Peterson, who's just extremely good at his job. So Jacksonville's beautifully set long term. But the second half of this take comes from a move made last week that we haven't had a chance to talk about in this pod, which is the Titans firing John Robinson. We're going to look back at this as being one of the biggest team-building mistakes made in the last few years when we get an update on it. I really believe that. When Robinson was fired, I was positive we were going to see something off field come

through. He's too good of a general manager to not be something off field. And of course, like, the firing is seven days old. Like, we don't necessarily know where we're at with that just yet, but nothing has come yet. And a lot of Titans fans and ownership made comments about football roster and building kind of how to go forward. Titans fans have done.

a nice job pretzling themselves into like, you know, oh, well, Robinson's 2020 draft wasn't that good. He traded AJ Brown, so he's not a good enough general manager, which is Poppycock. You look at what John Robinson's done over the course of his tenure relative to what the average NFL general manager does over the course of his tenure, and Robinson's in above average general manager. GMs miss.

They draft players in the first round who don't hit. Kevin Colbert was a general manager for like 70 years and was just regularly missing in the first round, right? Harry Roseman missing the first round. Mickey Loomis missing in the first round. Trade up for Marcus Davenport. Bill Belichick, Bill Belichick is always missing in the first round. John Schneider, do we know what John Snyder was doing from 2012 to 2022?

His two pole classes? Not much in the middle. L.J. Collier, baby, Rashad Penny. GM's miss, right? So, like, yeah, Isaiah Wilson flamed out. He did. It was a huge swing at the plate. That's what Robinson does.

He takes injury risks. he takes guys who have off the field concerns. Sometimes he hits, sometimes he misses. So he was a risk-prone general manager. He was an aggressive general manager. Sometimes you're going to have misses. But Robinson was a good GM. He had a good eye for talent.

He understood what Vrable wanted on the team. The Titans very clearly, though, in this past off season, after they extended John Robinson, mind you, February of 2022, thought, you know what? We have to get building for the future. The Jags are loading up for the next run. The Colts are doing whatever the Colts are doing.

The Texans are young and they're trying to develop and whatever. Like, you know, we've got control over the AFC South right now. But there was not enough evidence that the current core, Ryan Tannanhill on the wrong side of 30, Derek Henry approached in the wrong side of 30, was going to be the core for them long term. You look at the way that the Titans cap was built out, and they didn't have any money locked into Ryan Tannhill

after the 2023 season. No money on Derek Henry locked down after the 2023 season. Just void years. Taylor LeWan, not after the 2023 season. season. Denico Autry, not after the 22th season. Jeffrey Simmons, not after the 2022 season. David Long, not after the 2022 season. So the core of the team,

they star players, the players who are driving them home to playoff wins, say, A.C. South Championships. Robinson made a distinct point not to commit to those players because he wanted to build for the future a little bit. He wanted to be patient. He wanted to try to do it the slow way. Part of that was trading

AJ Brown. Wasn't a good move. Right? It's when we're like, oh, we've got to be patient. We don't know if we have the core just yet. We're going to low ball AJ Brown, it doesn't work and you train him away. It's objectively a bad move. If he got fired for it when ownership 100% absolutely was part of that decision and okay the decision at the time, that's bad work from ownership. It's bad work from the general manager, but it's also bad work from ownership

because they said one thing in March and said a different thing in November and December when they fired John Robinson. But critically, and this is the important note here, it's the job of the general manager to take the slow view in the room. It's the job of the general manager to take the page. should view in the room. The general manager is in, is in that spot to make sure the team is good three years from now. The head coach is in his spot to make sure the team is good now. Those two bodies are supposed to exist in tension. They're supposed to help one another. GM's got to get

good players for the coach. Coach has developed the players to GM build in. There's, there's a harmony, but they should exist in a dynamic tension where they're balanced because they're pulling opposite one another. GM is always building for the future. Coach is always building for now. And ownership is kind of the deciding factor that has to balance out that seesaw. Well, the seesaw is out of whack in Tennessee. Robinson's gone. Reports are that Mike Brable is going to have more control over the roster. You know, there's an interim general manager, Ryan Cowden,

but Brable's going to be heavily involved. Remember the last time we did this with Bill O'Brien? Remember the time we did this before we were Chip Kelly? Remember when head coaches got frustrated with general managers who were generally giving them playoff caliber rosters and then won those power struggles and took over the roster? What happened next? When a head coach gets his jaws in a roster,

when he gets control over it, we've seen good coaches, good play callers, good designers, get too big for their boots. They get too much power and they start making impulsive, rash, aggressive. We have to win now decisions. I need this player. I need this shiny new toy. And I'm extremely worried that a very good head coach in Mike Ravel

is going to be put in the spot where he gets a job he should not have, which is personnel management, and it tanks how good his Titans team have been because that equilibrium between general manager and head coach has been thrown out of balance. So I foresee a changing of the guard in the AFC South, in part because the Jaguars are playing well, they got their win over the Titans,

they're starting to exercise their demons. But in large part because I think the Titans made a grave misstep in initiating this patient John Robinson plan and then casting it aside eight months later and now seemingly giving Brable too much of the roster more control than a head coach should have. I'm trying to decide, Where to begin here. Let's get the Jaguars part out of the way. Yeah, I said a month ago, I want to see

more from Trevor Lawrence. I don't want to see him operate like a robot. I want to see him let his talent show. And, oh, baby, two out of the last three weeks, you are seeing that. If you saw the Doug Peterson clip, Trevor Lawrence had the touchdown run where it's not a read. He's supposed to hand the ball off. And he saw the end crashing in. And he and Peterson said that Lawrence just decided to keep the ball stiff arm. I think it was the linebacker. And it was a very weird touchdown run. But I was like, I love that. Yes, take control. I saw J.P. Acosta posted the clip of the downfield. I think it was a post-downfield that he threw, just a heat check throw, a money throw. He was hooking. Another one, he's rolling out to his left and finds Jamal Agnew.

And so I'm seeing more of that from him. And it's been really fun. The Jags are on the right path. Two of their last three weeks have been really fun. I disagree with you on John Robinson. I think you highly overrate John Robinson. Now, I come from a place of most. GMs are the same and there's not much that really, you know, there are a couple that might be real difference makers. There are a couple who can really be terrible and put you in a bad spot, but there's a large, large middle class of GM. So I think John Robinson's been fine. I don't think he's been exceptional. I don't think he's going to be that hard to replace. And I think what happens is, and you're right, maybe we'll learn more about this story, whether it is an off-field thing,

but there's also a more, you know, likely scenario, which happens with every team. You described it as a healthy tension, it's a fine line between that healthy tension and what becomes a power struggle. And this happens every year, more, not just every year, every team in the NFL. It's remarkable when these guys can stay together because they're not always going to see eye to eye. One person's not going to feel the same as the other person. And then it's going to become a struggle, an argument of, well, who is more replaceable by ownership and who's going to win out. And in my opinion, that's such an easy decision. If you're Titans ownership and these two guys are not seeing eye to eye, Robinson or Vrable, I mean, it's Vrable 10 times out of 10 times. I mean, you look at this

roster, do they have one blue chip player right now on the offensive side of the ball? I mean, that offensive side of the ball stinks. There is no talent on that side of the roster. I would even argue defensively, they're doing more with less. They've got more talent on defense. They've got some nice players. But to me, that is a coaching job, a coaching job of consistently, doing more with less. And so I'm sure there was some, whether it was AJ Brown, whether it was draft picks,

whether it was roster moves, you're right about the danger with a coach getting that power and then what they're going to do with it because the coach's job is to win this week and then after that game's over is to win the next week. It's not to look three seasons ahead.

However, we have a lot of examples in the NFL. I mean, Kyle Shanahan had all the power and brought in John Lynch. Pete Carroll was hired first and brought in John Schneider. And so when you have a coach who you really believe in, and you're saying, we're not even like thinking,

this is our coach, we're not thinking about anything else. And he wants more, then you can say, all right, that's fine. You know, find a guy who's going to help you out and go ahead and move forward. So I have no issue with that process at all. I mean, you look at, I don't see many moves in like the last couple of years, why I say, wow, John Robinson's killing it. To me, it's more replacement level GM. He's been fine.

Again, I think most of them are in the same bucket. And I think they're in a weird part in sort of their franchises place right now where they are in that middle, like, which way are you going? Are you sticking with the guys you have now and moving forward? Are you going to do a slow rebuild? Are you going to blow it up? I'm sure if Rabel doesn't want to blow it up, maybe Robinson did want to blow it up. And that was the tension.

But I think it's fine. I don't think they're going to look back and be like, oh, my gosh, we don't have John Robinson. And that's why our team stinks right now. I totally disagree with that. Yeah, see, to me, I think it'll be extremely clear. A lot of the Robinson conversation to me is very much backfilling the reasoning. Like, the Titans are 7 and 6 right now. Let's describe out the median outcome for the Titan season this year.

Titans finish 10 and 7. They win the AFC South. They play the five CED, so that's who, like Miami, but Cincinnati. Cincinnati? Yeah. They lose in the White's see. wild card round. Are you hopping on this pod with me after the Titans lose to the Bengals, which they always play the Bengals tight, one score games. They lose to Bengals 20 to 17. Are you hopping on

the pod with me in January and going, Titans very clearly need to fire John Robinson? No chance. There's no way you're saying that in January if the Titans season just finished and Robinson wasn't fired midseason. You see what I'm saying? No, I'm not saying that. But if I'm, my, my read on this is that Brayble is not happy with the job. His GM is doing. I would have popped on this podcast and we would have talked about the Titans. And I would have got another great job by Vrabel. I can't even believe they won the AFC South with this roster. He's one of the five or six or seven best head coaches in the NFL. He did it again. They won the division. We all thought this was the year that they were going to

come back down to Earth and underachieve and they didn't do it. So if in his mind, the GM is not doing the job he wants the GM to do, they're not seeing eye to eye in Rabel. Like it's a Brable's vision. To me, there should be no misunderstanding about that. It's got to be Brable's vision. And then you're right, he can't pull a Bill O'Brien. See, it's interesting because Brable's vision, and I agree with you that Brable's character is very clearly stamped on this team. Remember, John Robinson was in a power struggle with Mike Malarkey, got Mike Malarkey fired. They were off of a playoff win, got Malarkey fired, and then went out and hired his guy and got Mike Brable. And before Vrable,

John Robinson was drafting some large, angry son of a gun, some physical players, and was hitting early in the draft, despite it, right? And part of the reason why I got rid of Malarkey was, Malarkey, you know, was defending his coaching staff. I can't recall the name of his officer coordinator.

Who was it? It was the Marcus Marriota year, and he was just like, abysmal. And Malarkey was like, this guy's the best and it was terrible. Whatever. But, like, brought in Vrabble. And Robinson was the,

was the installer of this culture that now is attributed to Brabel, which I think a lot of that attribution is rightful. I absolutely do, because Brable is very clearly affected the team in positive ways. But it ain't like, you know, Robinson and Brable got hired together, and then it's been right, who's in charge here? No, Robinson built the bedrock on which Mike Brable's built his church. And so I agree with you.

Like, I very clearly think this mid-season firing, which is a shocking thing to see for a general manager. Mid-season firing for an NFL head coach, you see one or two a year. Mid-season NFL firing for general manager rare and never happens on a winning team. Man, Sasha got fired to go to 0 and 12. You know, Dave called off fired by the Jags, lost 10 straight.

So the only way Robinson is getting fired is because of power struggle because of Brable. I agree with you that I think Brable's better at his job than Robinson at his. I do think that when head coaches and GM struggle and head coaches win and end up with more roster control, the team always and invariably gets worse.

And that sucks. That's maybe Titans are putting a bad spot. Ownership put in a bad spot. But I do not see if we get to the end of this season and the Titans hire a general manager and Brable steps back from the roster great. Kudos to Brable,

kudos to ownership for understanding how to build our team. I'd be surprised if we see it. Head coaches love roster control. Feels great. Oh, baby. I'm finally building the team the way I want to. And there'll be that initial boost and then nothing. And then things tank because they're not responsible with future draft picks. They're not responsible with player

development. They want veterans. They spend money. Win now. Win now. Win now. And they mortgage the future for short-term gains and then those gains fall away. And I'm so, so worried that Braybel, who you love and I love, is going to fall down that same trap. And so it's the absence of Robinson, but it's also Braybill filling the void that I think is going to turn this Titans team that's been so wonderfully, patiently, meticulously built down a bad way. Rable definitely has the keys now. I mean, any move that is made, it's Rable's move regardless of who they hire, regardless of if it's his hand-picked guy, it doesn't matter.

I mean, he has the keys. I think that's what this is about. Again, maybe there will be more reporting. Maybe you're right. Maybe there will be another explanation for it. The timing is certainly weird. And listen, it's the NFL. Two guys get along great for three years.

Things are going well. Then things start going south, and then things aren't going so well. And then someone's talking to the owner and someone else is talking to the owner. and all of a sudden someone wins out. Like the drama, the egos in these buildings, all 32 teams, I think probably the average listener, fan, whatever, would be surprised. But it's very common. So we'll see.

I mean, it could definitely go down that path. If he gets power hungry and says, I'm making this move. If he pulls a Bill O'Brien, you will absolutely be right. But I do think there's another path where he says, I just want somebody else. And yeah, I'm going to have final say, but it's not going to be a one-person show. And we'll see what happens. I hope that's the route that he goes down. I hope it says I want somebody else and they get somebody else.

If that somebody else can go get A.J. Brown, Nate Davis, David Long and Christian Fulton, all with no first round picks. Kudos. That's straight, good drafting, brother. That's good drafting. And no to hold on to AJ Brown when they have him in, not to miss on Isaiah Wilson and the next year's.

Listen, I know there's always misses. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying he's bad. I just don't think he's at a level where I'm going. Ryan Tannhill for a fourth round pick. Imagine if Malik develops and John Robinson's two quarterback moves

for Ryan Tannahill with a fourth round pick and Malik Wilson with a third round pick two starting quarterbacks didn't even spend a round two pick. Can you imagine? That's just general manager, baby. All right.

My final take and I think this is going to lead into your extra point taken. The Miami Dolphins are the most interesting team in the NFL going into the final four weeks of the season. I saw a handsome man podcast.

Someone called him a podcaster. Someone called him a writer. Put together a terrific video online. I can't remember the gentleman's name about what the Chargers did to the dolphins in that game Sunday night showing how they had their corners playing inside leverage, take away the middle of the field, bump those wide receivers at the line of scrimmage. By the way, that same podcaster writer, I think, was ahead of the curve on the show last week saying, this is the one thing that is replicable

is to press these guys, is to get at them within those five yards and that's exactly... That's an extra point taken, baby. I'll try to get the guy's name. Sorry, maybe at the break or in post-production, I can find it. But that is what the Chargers did. And after last week, I would say it's the 49ers. Everyone relax.

They're a great defense. They do this to everyone. The Chargers have not been a great defense. The Chargers have been a mediocre defense. The Chargers were playing without Derwin James, and they completely shut down that Dolphins team. 14 first downs, 219 yards. Miami gets that fluke fumble TD with Tyree Kill. Otherwise, they're really not even in that game.

I mean, one real touchdown on nine possessions. And so I'm looking at this Miami team going down the stretch. I know this is going to be so fun week to week. I think they're the most high variance, probably team in the NFL, but certainly the most high variance offense in the NFL. When you think about what we were talking about for the first 12 weeks of the season and how unstoppable they looked.

I let you convince me that they were Super Bowl contenders. I was on board. It looked like nobody could stop them. I'm still there. You're still there. Okay. Well, I want to hear from you on this. I didn't want to react to the 49ers loss.

But when you go back to back weeks like that, and the second defense is not a great defense, and they're still doing that to you, if you look at it statistically, Ben, there have been 399 quarterback starts this season. To a start on Sunday night ranked 376 if you look at success rate. So just how many positive plays are they producing when he drops back to pass? 376th out of 399. And now I'm looking at their next four games. Bills, top six defense.

Packers, eh, Patriots, top six defense. Jets, top six defense. Three of the top six defenses in the NFL in DVO. are on their schedule in the next four weeks. So this is going one of two ways. One is that word blueprint applies. I think it gets overused, but guess what?

There are also times where it actually applies where one team does something and the other team say, hey, that was pretty good. Let's do that. I said last week, you had it. The whole take was the Niners game

is not a blueprint game. Updated take, the Chargers game is a blueprint game. Yes. We're there. Exactly. Well said. So if teams are doing the same thing, disrupting those receivers within five yards, pressing, taking away the middle of the field, it could get really ugly down the stretch for this Dolphins team.

And the narrative could totally shift on what we think about them going into the off season. So it could go that way or it could go the other way where Mike McDaniel has a plan B. They get through this stretch. The offense looks explosive. They're a dangerous playoff team. And we say, oh, they had that tough stretch, remember, against the Niners and the Chargers. But look at what they did to bounce back. and now they look like the team we thought they were.

So I'm so interested to see what happens with the dolphins in the last four weeks. Hopefully, that sets you up for your extra point taken. Yeah, so we talked a lot about the specific Chargers Dolphins game on the Sunday recap show. So for a full, like, gamut of what it means for Tua and Herber and defenses, you can certainly go there and I encourage you to listen as we open the show with. But to say here, like now, like this, it can't be said yet that this is the most impressive. win of kind of the Chargers, Brandon Staley era. First of the, they had the early

win against the Chiefs, right, when he took over, and like that way, I think certainly means more. But if they're able to finish the job here, and we'll talk about that in a second, what the next month might look like for the Chargers, this is a watershed win. This is an inflection point win for a team that was reeling. I'm talking like, you know, like ducks

around the head, eyes crossed, nose-blooded, like they were just begging for a knockout punch. And I thought Miami was going to boat race him, man. I thought, I I thought Miami was just going to run them out of town. Like, what do the Chargers do from here? What needs to change?

Resiliency from a team that is so good at playing good games and then losing them. To walk into that Dolphins team that's just so high-powered. Put up a tough physical brand of football, win their third down reps, not make the critical mistakes, try to make the critical mistakes. Yeah. And then recover the fumbles and avoid. It just, it, again, like we, I can't say right now, like, all the exercises. their demons, the charges are whatever.

But it, again, like, if they can finish the job here over the next few weeks, this is a, this is a game we look back on as a turning point game. I don't want to believe in the Chargers because that'd be dumb. I've never done that before. But this is the sort of game that the Chargers lose so, so, so often. And the fact that they didn't, I think is a very, very big deal. Good game planning, good coaching, good quarterbacking. It's what should win your games.

And the Chargers tend to find. for it not to happen and happening as an AFC rival that they desperately needed to beat. Kudos to them. I don't think this is going to end up being a, I think it's going to end up being a great individual team performance for them. Now, the end of their scale, I mean, they have the Titans, the Colts, the Rams, and the Broncos. I mean, you really couldn't ask for a better final four games if you're the Chargers.

So they're in the driver seat there. They should be able to get into the postseason, but I'm not going to trust them. I mean, it would not surprise me at all if they lost this weekend. to the Titans. That could absolutely happen, but it was a great performance by them. All right. Benny Solz, anything else? Yeah, so the extra point taken for me is on this exact topic, like you said. I want to walk you through right now as we sit here at the end of week 14, the teams that have between a 60 to 10% chance to make the playoffs.

And then I want you to pick out of that group, the one team that you would just not want to have to play as some stupid stinky wildcard team coming out of it. Oh, I love it. You don't want to play them team. All right. I like this. Now, again,

like not all these teams will make it, but implied in them making it is the fact that they won some of those subsequent games, right? So when you make your decision here, when you think about it, and I'll read off some of the remaining schedule for you, think about what it means for them to have made the playoffs and the teams that they've beaten to got there. So less than 60% chance.

So Buccaneers are our first team out at 66% chance right now by 538. You have the Seahawks at 55%. They have the Niners, the Chiefs, the Jets, and the Rams coming up. You have the Chargers at 55%. WayfC Wildcard. They have, as you said, the Titans, the Colts, the Rams, and the Broncos. You also have the Patriots. Right now, 40% chance to make it.

New England has Raiders, Bengals, dolphins, bills. You have the Panthers. 31% second position right now in the NFC South. They have coming up, Steelers, Lions, Buccaneers, and Saints. Two more teams left. Excuse me, three more teams left. You have the Giants,

45%. They have Minnesota, they have Indianapolis, they have Washington, they have Philadelphia. You have the Jets at 34%. Detroit, Jacksonville, Seattle, Miami.

And then you have those pesky little Detroit Lions. They're coming up with the Jets, the Panthers, the Bears, and the Packers. So, listing the teams again, Seahawks, Chargers, Patriots, Giants, Jets, Panthers,

Lions, who do you not want to see the most in the playoffs? Say it. This is testing many, you know, do you have these things in your head going off? I'm going, I heard you guys on the pod. I'm with you on Justin Herbert. That was going to be one of my takes, but then I go, they already covered that. But would I really feel like the Chargers are going to beat me? I don't think so.

So I'll give you some time to noodle on it if you want, because my team in that group. I've got my team. I've got my team. Who is it? If it's your team. It's the lie. I think it's the Lions. Yeah.

I think it's the Detroit Lions. I mean, listen, the Detroit Lions are scoring on anybody and everybody. They have a, what, top seven, top eight offense. And by the way, Dan Frick and Campbell will call a fake punt with Mr. Dave Fipp's legendary special teams coach. Wow, Dave Fip, shout out. This is an Eagles people podcast for sure. Inside his own 30 in that game.

Are you kidding me with that fake pun? And then Penae Sewell on the third and seven. So I think it would be the lion. I'm not buying the Lions defense. I think they got a lot of work to do defensively. I thought Cousins played really well in that game. But as I'm looking at all these teams, I mean, if you want to say the Chargers, you can say the Chargers because of Herbert. If you want to say the Patriots, you can say the Patriots because of Belichette.

You could talk me into the Jets easily because of that defense. I mean, so those are the three teams I looked at. But I don't know. It's probably a little recency bias. But when I just looked at the teams and I knew I had to pick one or we were just going to have dead air, I was going with the Detroit Lions. And that's the thing, as I think there's two teams that are legitimate. And they're total polar opposites because it's the charges and the Lions. When I look at that list and you're like, are you giving me this version of the Seahawks?

You know, the Patriots go ahead and handle business and make it the seven seat. All right. I know how to beat these teams. I've watched football. I know what's going on. Lions with the way, again, one five or the last six, they're going to have a ton of momentum. They're a super young team. Like you said, they'll try everything.

There's a nightmare to prepare for, right? Because they're just going to be crazy and they're going to be super chaotic and all of that. But the answer to me is the Los Angeles Chargers. And the reason is what we saw on Monday night. Steven said it really well on the Sunday recap show. Herbert played about a perfect game. He played about as good of a game as you'll see a quarterback play. They only scored 23 freaking points.

But Herbert played about as good of a game as you'll see the quarterback position play. And he also did last week. This is becoming extremely regular for this young man. Just be about as mistake-free, efficient, effective as you can be in this offense. critically. This offense has gained reinforcements. Mike Williams and Keenan Allen sharing the field once again against the Miami Dolphins.

Keenan's clearly still Gympie, but this again from Stevens timeline, Herbert this season, 68 dropbacks total with both with Mike Williams and Keenan Allen on the field, averaging 0.32 EPA per dropback. That's Mahomes averaging 0.34 right now on the season. So when he has both Mike Williams and Keenan Allen,

it's looking pretty good. Reporters today out of Los Angeles from Brandon Staley, there's a chance that both Joey Bosa and Roshan Slater left tackle are back in the regular season. Rishon is a little bit more of a long shot for Week 18, maybe in the playoffs,

but Joey Bosa, Khalil Mack had three sacks in the four games that he played, or excuse me, he had four sacks in the three games he played with Joey Bosa. He has only had three sacks since. They are going to get potentially their best defensive player back

and then also the saving grace of this offensive line. the Chargers are kind of rounding out a little bit into the team we thought we might see and the health at wide receiver, nothing more important than that and getting a player like Michael Williams back, you saw how much it mattered to them against the Dolphins.

I would like for the Chargers to lose the game against the Titans so I don't have to entertain these thoughts anymore. But if they can go from beating a team that plays like the Dolphins to turning right around and beating a team that plays like the Titans and they're getting healthier and Herbert's continuing to play like this, there is not a team in the AFC field they can't beat. They'll find a way to lose!

But there's not a team in the AFC field they can't beat. I thought I was bad. You got sucked in by one win. Even I was stronger than that. And I am normally weak. I mean, I would go back, I hear everything you're saying. But listen to what you said. You said

Herbert, and I agree, Herbert had to play like a perfect game and they scored 23. There are just constraints around this man that I think are going to be difficult to overcome. Now, listen, if Williams and Allen stay healthy, if they're healthier on the, I mean, he was running for us.

Like, I don't know how sustainable that is, but I would see that in a one game, you know, because I think Staley in a one game scenario in the playoffs, come up with the creative game plan for this team. We just saw him do that. That's a big feather in the defensive coach's hat. And then the quarterback,

can just put the team on his back. So there could be, you know, if you wanted to take it far, and maybe we'll save this for if they beat the Titans next week, this will be a take, could they be the Bengals of this year? I mean, they've got the quarterback. They're not having a great season. No one's really taking them seriously, but they sneak in and all of a sudden they make some noise.

That, you know, there might be some parallels there. Now that the Bengals are like, you know, just way better than they were when they actually got through the Super Bowl. So the Bengals can't be this year's Bengals. Okay. I like it. The Chargers. Ben's back in on the Chargers.

Stay tuned for next Monday night when we talk about how the Chargers lost to the Titans and Mike Rabel just out coach their butts. Here's the thing. With Ryan Tannahill and Nick Westbrook Aquina with two touchdowns on that defense. If you go and you look at the Titans rushing numbers this year in the Tannahill games, in the non-Malik Willis games, they're not running the football very well. This offensive line is really, really bad. So the whole, like, oh, just running on the Chargers.

They will, but it's not. same rushing attack it's been in previous seasons in Tennessee. So I don't like, the Titans are well built to beat the Chargers, but also the Titans aren't the Titans. And this defense is so, so, so injured in Tennessee. I think the Chargers win the game. I hate that I said that. Get me off the Pod.

Stop the pod. I don't even know what the line is, but I could tell you in my picks column, I will absolutely be taking the points with the Titans in that game. Whether I pick them to win or not, I do not know. All right. That'll wrap it up. Thank you to everyone for listening. weeks in the books.

We've got four more to do, and then I think we're going to do a playoff one because we got that Monday night wildcard game this year. Chargers are favored by one and a half. Only one and a half one? Come on, I thought I was getting at least a field goal there. No, Titans right now.

This was at Open. I'm just looking at an article that has that it open. FPI has Chargers 62.5% chance to wins. That's five-eighths. Chargers handle success. Well, I'm sure... Chargers will be the Titans.

Playoff Chargers! Yeah, I'm sure they'll be fine with expectations and do great things. And I'm sure, you know, the Titans don't usually perform well when their backs are up against the wall. And people are telling them. Against an AFC contender. I've never seen them do that before.

Oh, well, we'll see how it goes. Maybe this will be the breaking point where they're just not as good of a team. All right. Thanks to everyone for listening to me and Benny Souls. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing additional production supervision by Connor and Evans and Arjuna Rampas. Stay tuned this week. The power rankers, the island, the scramble, and the preview show.

on Friday. Everyone have a great week and we will talk to you next Monday.