The Ringer NFL Show - Lamar Jackson Asks to Be Traded. Will He Ever Suit Up for the Ravens Again? | Extra Point Taken

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

The Lamarathon continues! Lamar Jackson told his Twitter followers on Monday that he’d requested a trade from the Baltimore Ravens after being franchise-tagged and not reaching a long-term deal. Sheil and Ben discuss whether Jackson will be granted his wish or be back with the Ravens. Sheil and Ben also discuss what teams should be pursuing Jackson, and what the fallout will be if a team doesn’t trade for him. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Ben Solak Producer: Cliff Augustin Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, my name is Kevin Clark. I'm the host of a new football podcast called Slow Newsday. I want to tell you about it. On Mondays, Lindsay Jones and I will recap the weekend in football that was, as well as look ahead to what's next. On Wednesday, the normal Slow Newsday, the thing you've been watching for years, current players, current coaches, current analysts talking about the football world. And on Friday, it's a wild card.

Could be some college football. Could be more pro stuff. It's a video podcast so you can watch it on Spotify or listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. Follow on Spotify. It's Slow Newsday. Welcome to Extra Point Taken on the Ringer NFL feed. Shield Capade here, joined by Ben Solac. You know, we were thinking about what should we do today?

Will there be some news out of owners meetings? And then we got this, I don't know if it's called a Lamar Baum or what, but certainly Lamar Jackson will be headlining every league-wide NFL conversation for the next 24 hours or so. So we decided, let's just, you know, there's a lot, there's some myths, there's some reality. There's some fact. There's some fiction.

Let's go over six questions that have to do with Lamar Jackson and lay out what we think is actually happening, what's going to happen, all those things. Benjamin Solac, you are no stranger to Lamar discourse. How are you feeling for this episode? What are we calling it? Lamarcast? The Lamarcast, sure.

There's no other puns that are immediately coming to mind. Yeah. The Jackson, six, but because it's seven. technically, even though we'll have six questions. We better stop and just move on at this point. Yeah, I don't think we're going to be the ones to come up with this. We have many more creative people at the Ringer who can come up with the title, including our wonderful producer, Cliff Augustine, who suggests Lamarathon, which, listen,

I don't know how it's going to do. Ah, this is why we got to get Cliff in the building, the Lamarathon, yes. All right, let's get to it. What happened today? Lamar Jackson, right before John Harbaugh has his breakfast with the, reporters at the Biltmore in Arizona as part of NFL. Which I already, I already want to stop you right here. Legit right before. Like three minutes before. Impeccable timing. Best part of the sequence. Okay, go ahead. Absolutely. Lamar Jackson starts tweeting, I don't need to read them word for word

here, Ben, but just paraphrasing, he thanked his fans. He said, don't believe everything you read. He said he requested a trade on March 2nd because the Ravens have not been interested in meeting his value and he said it's a business decision. He still loves Baltimore. He still loves Maryland, but he has to do what's best for him and his family. So aside from some gifts and some one-liner tweets, this is kind of the first we've heard from Lamar in an official capacity, certainly the first time he's gone on the record as saying he's requested a trade. What was your initial reaction when you saw Lamar Jackson send out these tweets this morning? Yeah.

Like when Lamar was like, I requested a trade on March 2nd, I was kind of like, okay, that makes sense. Like, I wasn't like, wow, I had no idea Lamar was this upset with the Ravens. No, I had a feeling. I had a sense that Lamar was this upset with the Ravens. Functionally, like, it does put a little bit of a different color, a little bit of a different lens on the non-exclusive franchise tag situation, right? he requested the trade on March 2nd, which means that the Ravens knew kind of that he was going to do his best to go find other jobs,

for other places that would give him a deal for about a week, even more than a week, before they really knew they were going to non-exclusive tag him. And so it gave the Ravens probably a little bit of a time and opportunity in a window to kind of poke around and better see what the market for Lamar was going to be. So I think it provides a little bit of color there. And then the timing of Lamar tweeting it, I think also provides us with some information. Usually, when a player requests a trade, we know about it pretty quick. That's not to say that that's always to the benefit of the player. That's not to say that that's the right way to do it. But usually the agent makes sure that Schaefter or rap knows ASAPs.

That way they can tweet it. It's the way the entire league knows, so that way we can get this ball moving. This happened three weeks ago, and Lamar just shared it with everybody. and obviously Lamar doesn't have an agent, and the timing of it is important. Like, it is not an accident that this was tweeted four seconds before John Harbaugh went to talk at owner's meetings, which Harbaugh did an awesome job. I don't know how well he knew this was coming down the mountain, but Harbaugh did great. So, you know, if there was some gamesmanship here, which I imagine there was, I think that Harbaugh

sidestepped it nicely. But, you know, the timing of Lamar's trade request occurring and then being released is just another factor to consider in this entire question about like, how is Lamar handling this? How would an agent be handling this? What makes a situation unique? So on and so forth. But altogether, I wasn't like, wow, tectonic shift.

It's like, yeah, he wants to get out of Baltimore. I got that. Yeah, we'll get to the agent stuff in one of these other questions because I think there's a lot to get into there. I think it's meaningful because of, you know, what you said. It just makes it clear in his own words that he's ready to get out. of Baltimore. And so there was this thought that, hey, you know, teams aren't going to be interested because they don't want to negotiate for the Ravens and he's just going to end up

resigning with the Ravens. Well, now if you know that the player is more than open, willing to move on, then maybe you re-engage in some of those conversations you have as a team. I mean, teams can talk to Lamar Jackson and then they can talk to the Ravens about a trade. That's another thing to make clear here as well. It's not, we have the non-exclusive tag, which means you can sign Jackson to an offer sheet and then the Ravens can either match or give him up for two first round picks. But also, Lamar can sign the tag with the Ravens and then the Ravens can tag and trade him. So there are a lot of moving parts. But if Lamar Jackson agrees to a deal with a new team just kind of agrees to terms on a new deal and then that team agrees to trade terms with the

Ravens, then it can be different than two first round picks. There can be another quarterback involved. We might be getting to that later in the show. There can be different. draft compensation involved. All sorts of things can happen. So it's important to remember that it's not just the two first round picks and matching him or not matching him. There's a scenario where you just have kind of a brand new creative trade with this thing. So I thought that was meaningful just that he went on the record with it.

And I have to say, but I thought my other takeaway here is I sort of wish he had gone this route a little bit earlier, you know, and that's partially to what you were saying there. But I just feel like he really could benefit from. And there's a fine line here, but just from being more open, being more clear, you know, there's just speaking directly to the public, to the fans, to the other 31 teams, hey, here is the actual narrative. Here, you know, there's an actual narrative and here's what's actually happening. Now, I don't expect him to say exactly, hey, this is exactly what the Ravens offered me. This is exactly what I'm looking for.

Any of those things, but there certainly is this sort of sense of mystery and intrigue around the Lamar Jackson situation where we're not like totally sure what's the exact thing he's looking for. How does he feel about the Ravens? All those things. So if this would have happened, you know, even before free agency opened, right? I mean, now I think teams knew that Lamar Jackson was available. And like you said, I think most of us could have assumed he's open to playing somewhere else.

But if he would have done this before free agency even opened, who knows? Maybe that gives teams more time. So I think this is like a step in the right direction. You know, he's had some tweets here. in there and he'll sometimes tweet a giff out or whatever and it's funny and it's fine. But I do feel like he's at this place now where obviously teams are not, you know, knocking down the door willing to give up draft compensation and pay him what he wants, that I think it does benefit him to do this kind of thing and make it clear what his motives are, what his

demands are, what he's looking for, all those things. So I hope for his sake that he kind of continues to do it in this way. I think this is sort of a more organized way to get his messaging out there. So I will say this. I agree that if Lamar got this news out sooner, it would probably have been to his benefit. The degree of benefit I am skeptical of, right? Like when Lamar got hit with the non-exclusive tag, and then I think what was kind of the most, like, shocking moment at this entire saga, which, like a lot has gone down, right?

I was doing prep for the pod, and I went, and I went, and I was. I was just like, all right, let me make sure I know my dates and know my numbers and whatever. And I found an ESPN article, like, Lamar Jackson denies Baltimore Ravens $250 million extension and wants a deal fully guaranteed at signing. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I saw the date was September 11th, 2022. I was like, oh, shoot, I forgot we've been doing this for a long time. A long time. So in this entire saga, to me, like, the most surprising moment was when Lamar got hit with the non-exclusive tag and the NFL jumped.

Teams, teams are chomping at the bit to clarify that they didn't want him. I would have expected the exact opposite. I said on this pot I expect the exact opposite. That moment to me signifies, makes clear that teams knew Lamar was going to be available because there's no way the Atlanta Falcons are within 20 minutes of Lamar being put in the non-exclusive tag going, all right, we've done the pros, consless, we're out, we don't want them.

They had their time. So I don't think I would be surprised if there's even one team in the league who, when Lamar tweeted today, like I requested a trade, was like, wait, what? Lamar's trying to, Lamar really wants out? I think they all knew. You know what I'm saying? So there's that aspect of it that I think is up for debate.

And that goes back to your point of clarity, right? I think I was back to your point of like the way Lamar is trying to play this in terms of, you know, making it clear that he wants this contract figure. He understands his worth is aggressive, but also like I think it's player backed. I think it's generally public backed. I think like the average football fan would think that Lamar is worth that money. And so he kind of has the, you know, like, It has the advantage of being right. It's not the correct way of saying it.

But I think you would have good public support if you probably got his message off a little bit more clearly, which again goes back to the agent thing. It's worth remembering that Lamar tweeted this information about the trade request that he put in, what he wants and how he always loved Baltimore, how he wants him in a Super Bowl. But if you just scroll down his timeline like three days ago,

it's him clarifying that a dude who he's in a business relationship with for gym equipment in Florida is not calling teams acting as his, unlicensed representative. And that's where you're like, okay, you got to handle that. This can't, the owners are lapping you in this arena of the contract negotiation.

In this public, in this sliver of the public arena, the owners are killing you, right? Chris Mortensen, ESPN's out here tweeting today, like, there's some concerns with owners that Lamar's sleep habits and nutritional habits are why he keeps getting sick, which, like, that's fair.

He gets sick every year when the weather turns, I hear you. But come on. Like, that's ridiculous. This is an MVP. They wouldn't actually care in a different context. And so, like, that's where the, like, if you're going to be out here tweeting the way you're going about your business, you should be trying to do it first.

And you should be trying to do it with a lot of clarity and be on the forefoot just because the public arena does matter. And some of this, like, you know, who is negotiating for you nonsense is not good, man. It doesn't work well for you. You said it much better than I did. Like, I was thinking, you know what? I didn't make that point. very clear. And you said it, you said it the way I wanted to say. That's what I meant. Complementary football. Complementary football. That's what I meant. I mean, if he would have come out, like even when he gets tagged, he could tweet out, I don't have an agent, but I'm working with the NFLPA. Some of the numbers out there about what I'm seeking are inaccurate. I would love to speak to teams about what I'm actually looking for. You know, all those things, just again, in a more organized step-by-step manner where there's kind of less,

mystery about it and teams kind of know that the lines of communication are open there with him and maybe that would make them more likely to make an offer. Maybe not. So let's get to that. Question number two, Benjamin, what are the real reasons why no team has shown interest that we know of to this point? I mean, you said it. We were on this pod a few weeks ago. You said you expected teams if they use the non-exclusive tag to jump at the opportunity to make a play for Lamar Jackson, not only has that not happened. It's like, there's nothing. It's some of the strongest language I use on a pod because I tried to like not be a sound bite.

I was like, no, off the chain. 100% serious, I'm positive. They're going to go crazy for Lamar. If anybody goes back and finds the sound bite, I haven't had those stones yet to go listen. Please let me know. I can't imagine it's a good one. Yeah, so that hasn't happened. Listen, I thought teams would be interested.

You weren't on an island there. I mean, I wasn't as strong as you. But yes, look at just the history of the NFL when a quarterback becomes available who's even mediocre or competent. They usually end up getting overpaid or the team ends up getting more draft compensation than you think they should get. We could look at Carson Wentz from the Eagles to the Colts. We could look at Carson Wentz from the Colts to the commanders. We could look at what Kurt Cousins has been paid here. I mean, I could probably go on and on and on.

There are many. We could look at Deshawn Watson just last offseason. yet here we are March 27th, plenty of teams in the NFL in need of quarterback help. And we haven't heard so much as a team saying, hey, let's have a meeting, go fly out and at least talk to Lamar Jackson. Why? Why has no team shown any real interest at this point in your opinion? I don't really know. I think it's the combination, it's the amalgam of like many, many, many things.

And, you know, it's not like all the one teams are like, oh, well, like we're worried about him getting the flu in October. So we're out. Like, I think it's probably different for everybody. I would say that one, and this goes back to our timing conversation, by March 15th, most teams, like, you know, I'm talking about the start of the league new year, right? you've got to make a couple moves, you know, Jimmy Garbo's got to land some more, Derek Carl's going to land somewhere. So let's say like by March 18th,

by March 18th, March 19th, most teams want to feel comfortable with their quarterback situation moving forward, right? Like they just want to be like, all right, like, if we have to go forward with this group, we're okay. Panthers and Texans with the first and second overall pick, notwithstanding,

that's what you see when like the commanders go sign Jacoby Brissette, right? It's like, all right, we're not going to not do something because we have Jacoby Brisset, but if we have to go into next year with Jacoby Brisset and Sam Howell, or okay. You know what I'm saying?

Set the floor. Yeah, set the floor with a little bit of competency. Exactly, right. We just got a quarterback's a bell support position. We don't want to be really embarrassing here. We don't want to be totally lifeless here. We don't have no young players.

So like, you know, Broncos go get Jared Stiddam and the lines bring back Nate Sudfeld. And it's like everybody's got enough guys that if they had to play tomorrow, they'd have a dude that they could start and a back of it they're okay with and we're fine. And so that just lessens the stress, right? It lessens the, okay, we have to go out

and get a dude. But I don't find that to be a fully sufficient explanation because Lamar is more than just like a dude you go out to get to secure the position. He's not a Derek Carr. He's not a Jim McGropolo. He's evidently more than not. More than that. Not in my opinion more than that. Not oh, there are some of the case. He won the MVP. He's evidently, we're positive. We know for sure. He's more than that. There is the aspect of it that like often it's called collusion, which I don't think is like full on straight collusion by the like FEC, FBI definition. I don't know who defines what collusion is. The justice system. Yeah, abbreviation. By owners are inherently up against the players when it comes to aspects of

compensation, contract structure. If players don't have the ability, they're fighting for the same pie, right? It is, it is the money. It is the cap space. owners want to spend as little bit as possible and they also want to keep the total amount of cap space down, right? They want to keep their percentage of league revenue share, which is how cap space is defined. They want to keep that as high as possible.

And the players want to get bigger pieces of the pie and they want to get safer contracts. They want to get guaranteed contracts. You know, when DeMarne Hamlin had his injury, we're talking about medical benefits, right? Like this is boss and employee. This is a battle for wealth and for control over the wealth

and every other, you know, capitalist paradigm that you want to use. and Lamar is out there on a limb really trying to put the screws to owners and say if there is a player in the league who justifies a fully guaranteed deal like the one Deshaun Watson got, I am him.

Give it to me. And the second that happens, there are now two, two in a row, right? Because Kirk Cousins did it once and then nobody else was able to follow back on it. It was 2017, 2018. Right? It's now, okay, the last two really big quarterback talents

to hit the market, which Deshawn Watson whole situation nonwithstanding in the context of all that. But the last two really big talented young quarterbacks at the market, both got fully guaranteed deals. Now this starts to become expectation, right? My band teacher in eighth grade, Mr. Pritchard used to tell me, once is an accident,

twice as coincidence, three times you've got it down. Like you know how to play the notes, right? So once we get two or three, now it's a trend and now it's legitimate. And so, again, I don't think it's full on collusion, but I do think no owner wants to be the owner to give out that second fully guaranteed deal to a major quarterback in consecutive off-season.

So I think that's an aspect of it. And then I do think the health aspect of it is real and the sickness, but also like the injuries and coming off of the D problem and everything. I think that's part of it as well. So I opened this by saying I don't know and then I gave like three potential explanations. And I think that all those combine

into being enough that there's some resistance somewhere. But I find even the combination of all three, even cumulatively, I don't find it sufficient. I don't find it acceptable. I can't remember the last time the Lee was this disinterested in getting this talented of a player on their roster.

Deshawn Watson and everything that was happening with Deshawn's sexual harassment cases, plural, 20 plus, every draft prospect that's going to come out this year, who has a history of crimes, of domestic violence, of massive character issues.

And the league doesn't, I want to say they don't care. That's unfair to say. but they've always shown that they are very happy to get talent in the building despite the cost. Tyreek Hill, Jeffrey Simmons, Kareem Hunt, let's just name some guys. But with Lamar Jackson, league MVP, they're disinterested. And I can't make two ways of that. I can't get my head around it.

Yeah, your last point there is the reason why the football aspects of this don't fly with me. He's, listen, he's missed 10 games over the past two seasons. I think running has to be a part of the Lamar Jackson. I can see teams being hesitant about paying a quarterback big money and potentially multiple first round picks and then using him as a runner, especially when he's already missed time the past two years. Like that is a valid argument. I think there have been inconsistencies in the Ravens passing game.

And I'm not telling you that's because of Lamar Jackson only. We all know the Greg Roman conversations we've had. You look at the Ravens depth chart right now, by the way, and it is not pretty. they're surrounding him with, I can't get there with those arguments because of what you just said. Look at what teams are willing to overlook to get talented players who they deem to be talented. They might not even be that talented. Right. Willing, willing to what they're willing to overlook. Look at what we just saw last off season with Deshawn Watson. And so, uh, those could be, those, I'm not saying they're non-factors. I think they're partial factors. I don't think they're the

biggest factor, and I'm with you, I don't know definitively. It's really impossible to know definitively because we haven't had a situation like this. But I think so much of it, a big chunk of it comes down to them thinking, we are not making that guaranteed deal commitment. And if you remember back to last year, and again, it's impossible to discuss this situation without talking about Deshaun Watson. I mean, that is, if we're doing it, if we're doing it, what was the first domino to fall. If that Deshaun Watson deal doesn't happen, Lamar Jackson is probably signed under a long-term contract

with the second most guaranteed money of any quarterback. Everybody's saying, we're talking about, wow, Todd Munkin, Lamar Jackson, hey, who should they, who are they going to get him at a wide receiver? Huge deal, but it's worth it. Who cares? It's within line of the market, yeah.

It all started with Deshawn Watson getting that deal, Ravens owner, Steve Bishotti, going on the record, I think almost at this exact time last year, I believe. It was owner's meetings. owners meetings saying I don't think he should have been the guy who kind of started the guaranteed deal thing. And I think one important thing to remember about that, there were not teams plural lining up to give Deshawn Watson a fully guaranteed contract. If you remember how this went,

the Browns were out of it. The Browns were out of the Deshawn Watson bidding at that time. And guess what? They got back in. How did they? get back in. They went where no other team, presumably, was willing to go and fully guaranteed his contract. They went the other teams were not willing to go there. This is a huge thing because people all the time say like, oh, people blame the Browns, but like multiple teams were in on Deshawn. Yes, multiple teams were in on Deshawn. Multiple teams were trying to get him on their team, which stop aside. How terrible, how horrible. That was insane. No teams are trying to get with Lamar right now. That in and of itself already is bananas. Resume. And then the Browns got him by giving him

the fully guaranteed deal, right? And that's why like the Haslam family went out on an island in doing that. And Bashadi said it publicly, but there were owners who gave quotes privately. They were like, there were reports like owners are furious with the Haslam family that they have given out this fully guaranteed deal to Deshaun Watson. They know it's going to cause them problems. Bashati said in the same owners meetings where he gave that quote, he was like, this is going to make it tough with our guy. Like he just said it explicitly. He was like, yeah. we are inconvenience in the Lamar situation. And so now it's become lines in the sand.

Now if Lamar does not get the fully guaranteed deal, then it is the second time in the last five years where a quarterback got a fully guaranteed deal and then that wasn't able to pick up enough steam for a second quarterback to do and it wasn't able to kind of generate momentum for that contract structure in the league. And for everybody who's like,

if you don't follow NFL super closely and you're like fully guaranteed deal, like kind of who gives a hoot, it's an enormous deal because other leagues, have fully guaranteed deals, other sports, NBA, M-O-B, like they have fully guaranteed contracts, the NFL doesn't have that structure. It's not a common structure. It's used very, very sparingly, mostly for like low-level players, if at all. And in the context of short-term injury, the NFL tends to have a bigger injury issue than other sports. In the context of long-term

issue, it's not even close. The NFL has massive long-term injury concerns that you don't see in other non-contact sports. So if there's a group of players that need fully guaranteed deals who need more financial security and, you know, they're kind of the risk that they take on probably warrants it, it's the league. So like, I think there's an instinct to be like, oh, fully guaranteed deal, like whatever. Like if he signed for, you know, a $250 million extension and 65% of his guaranteed, that's great.

And it is. But this is a golden goose. This is, this is, you know, something that's kind of worth fighting for it in the perspective of the players union. Yeah. So I think, I think that is the number one thing to remember is that. So far in the history, in recent years, we have seen exactly one team willing to go this route. And, you know, yeah, Kirk Cousins, but I mean, that was on a much smaller scale.

Three years 84. Yeah. I mean, we've seen one team willing to go fully guaranteed on a $230 million contract. So that, to me, is at kind of the heart of this negotiation with Lamar Jackson. And by the way, again, this is why, you know, maybe he's not seeking fully guaranteed. We don't know what the number is he has in his head, how it compares to what the Ravens offered in, any of those things. But I think that to me is a huge, huge part of this. All right.

Question number three, how much has Lamar Jackson been hurt by not having an agent? You touched on this before, I think with some of the messaging stuff. But now that we sit back a little bit and look at it and look at what's happened, how do you feel about it? Define hurt. well, good question. I mean, you define her. No, you're asking a question. You should find her.

All right. Here's what I'll do. I'll answer this one first. I'm making you answer all of them first. So here's how I will define it. I think it's unclear at this point how much he has been hurt because we don't know what the end game is. I mean, he could go back. That offer that the Ravens made to him previously could end up still being on the table here.

And he could get the second most guarantee. of any quarterback in NFL history, and that's probably the deal that an agent would have advised him, hey, this is a fair deal, this is a good deal, go ahead and take that. But that might not be what he wants. And so there's a couple things I think we need to clarify. One is players can do this. And so I feel like there's this thought that any time of players trying to do it on their own, it's like, uh-oh, this is going to end badly. Laramie Tunsell, left tackle, Houston Texans, acted as his own agent, just reset the market. for left tackles.

Again. Second time he did it. Yes. Players who are winning the quote unquote business of football, he is right there, done a terrific job to maximize his career earnings, does not have an agent. So where does it hurt you?

Many of the biggest, and we've talked about this before, many of the biggest voices in NFL media are linked with agents. I mean, just look at the reporting around Deshawn Watson a year ago. And, I mean, there were tweets and I don't need to name names or specify specific tweets.

There are tweets that literally you would say, was that actually written by Deshawn Watson's agent? They were so sort of one-sided in terms of their scope and what they were saying. In this situation, there's been very little reporting around what is actually going on with Lamar Jackson. It's actually, if there's like a media studies or a sports journalism class out there,

like this is a good one to study. We know very little. Why? Because Lamar Jackson does not have an agent. agent, and the Ravens know Lamar Jackson has a very small, close circle. And if news gets out there, Lamar Jackson is going to know the news got out there because of the Ravens. I mean, to the Ravens credit, they've done a good job of just being like, no one is saying anything. Nope, sorry, not answering your calls. Harba said with a straight face of Oder's meeting today,

when Lamar's was starting quarterback for the Ravens this year, everyone will be happy and this will all be behind us. King! My politically correct fence-sitting king! Unbelievable. Harba is very polished, is very polished with the media. I think if you were looking at coaches, you could kind of trust to handle this situation in the public scope. He would be high atop the list. So, listen, agents, I think where they would have helped Lamar Jackson is certainly they would have been able to be more proactive with teams. I mean, every, you know, not every agent, a lot of agents, they have good relationships with GMs, with people in front offices where they can call and say, listen, he's not looking for a fully guaranteed, or he is looking for a guarantee of this number. Bring him in,

just at least bring him in. I mean, you will see teams allow agents to kind of use them and say, you know, you'll see these reports that Team X was interested in player and the team's not interested in player, but the agent's saying, can you do me a solid here and allow, you know, this to play out so that I can drum up some interest or negotiate with another team. These things happen all the time. And so I think an agent probably would have helped him create a market, use the media a little bit. But again, having said that, let's see how. how this plays out. You know, at this point, it seems like it's not going great, but we saw him, again, I think the tweet today was a step in the right direction where he's going to be a little more,

it looks like he'll be a little bit more organized and realize the value in getting his voice out there. And maybe that will lead to something. So I would say, I'm in like wait and see mode when I have to answer that question. Now, if this goes horribly and badly, and again, I think there are some things like you mentioned looking, looking down on his timeline that you would hope would have been avoided, you know, with a little more guidance, then yeah, it could go in a bad direction, but I'm not fully there yet in terms of, man, if he had an agent, this would be completely different. It would be different because he would have accepted the deal that the Ravens already offered him,

but that's not what the player wants. And the agent's job, in many cases, is to try to get what the player actually wants. So I don't know. I feel like I was talking in circles there. Well, no, because that's good, because that was also my answer. I just thought if I gave it, you were going to yell at me and be like, no, you got to pick. It's a risk-reward balance. I think if Lamar had an agent, it's much more likely that he would be signed to a deal right now.

I think it also can guarantee you that that deal would not be a fully guaranteed deal. I'm like 100% positive it wouldn't be. Agent's job is to get the player what they want. The agent's job is also to be honest and square with the player. I'm like, this is what is reasonable. This is the best you're going to get. If we do it this structure, then you can get out within two years. Maybe the landscape looks different.

Then you can go forward again and so on and so forth. And like, functionally with this roster bonus, it's the same as having this much guaranteed money. Like, you know, it's also like, you know, you're working for the player, but you're also like helping communicate to the player. Like, this is what's achievable and this is what isn't. I think about Daniel Jones, who had his agents, I think it was read by CIA. And then he fired him like halfway into the negotiation period with the Giants. and went with athletes first because his agents from CAA were probably like, dude, you cannot get this much money.

Like, you're Daniel Jones. Like, you got to, this is your range. Daniel Jones went on to sign a $40 million per year deal with the Giants. So maybe that was a good move for Jones. Like, that's part of the process, right? It's like, players will move on from agents because agents also try to be honest with you and tell you what, like, you know, what the lay the land is. So the hurt question is kind of like, well, what are you willing to risk and what are you willing to give up?

It's a gamble. It's a gambit and chess. It's, like I said, Lamar's out on a limb. This is aggressive. Like, this is digging your heels in and an uphill battle. You know, going up against NFL owners is very tough. If it comes that, you know, insert team here, don't want to spoil the second half of the podcast, spend multiple first round picks to give him a massive contract. Then you took the swing and you connect it.

If it doesn't and you go back to the Ravens and the deal that they offered you in the beginning of 2022 is no. longer on the table because the Ravens know that you know you don't have any leverage negotiating wise then that was the risk and you didn't connect to the pitch and now you got to take your lumps. So we'll see. The thing is like with with the risk reward calculations is that the Ravens being so clearly like we love Lamar and we want him back and he's going to play for us this year, does put Lamar on a spot where like might, you know, go through the draft, go into training camp, hold out a little bit, see if another quarterback somewhere gets. it's hurt. See if a team that thought they were going to trade up for a quarterback doesn't get

to trade up for a quarterback, take all the time, try to spend as much, you know, put as much pressure on other teams as you can, so even get out of Baltimore. And then if not, like, sounds like the Ravens will be cool with just like giving you a lot of money and letting you play, even if it's just like a year. And then that's not the worst thing in the world. And so it's a risk-go-word calculation. I don't think in the world of like getting your messages out, handling the optics of this entire process, not having. an agent has absolutely hurt him. But he wouldn't be out here if he had an agent in the first place, in my opinion. And if he ends up getting through this and threading this needle and getting

a massive deal, which I don't think is outside of the realm of possibility. I still think there's a shot he gets that contract that he's looking for. Then, you know, the risk was worth it. And that's why we got to wait and see. Which leads to our next question. Question number four, is it over with the Ravens definitively? Or is there a scenario where he still goes back there. It sounds like from what you just said, you think there is a scenario where he still goes back there. Yes. I mean, he was like, you know, again, like we look through that Twitter thread. He's like, listen, I'll always love Ravens fans no matter how far I go, he said. Like, I would talk like geographically, like championship wise and career wise? What do you mean?

How far I go? But this is the way he was phrasing it was like, goodbye to Baltimore. So I think that there's very clear interest and acceptance of the Ravens saying, like, hey, we will bring you back. Like, you know, you're doing all this and like trying to go play elsewhere and trying to get a different deal. Like, go to you. But like, we will bring you back. We love you. We drafted you. We built the office. We're great. I don't know if Lamar at this stage will go back to the Ravens, but the world might look a lot different in four months than it looks right now. And that can kind to change your perspective, especially when like you feel like you have to go out there and play and remind the league what it is you're capable of doing. So just to get your,

value. So I do think there's still a world where he returns to the Ravens. That ball is in Lamar's court, I think, more than is in Baltimore's. Most situations in the NFL are salvageable. It's almost a never say never scenario. I got to tell you, my gut says I think it's over. I think it's gotten too personal. I think it's gotten too emotional. It's hard for me to see him playing on a $32.4 million franchise tag. It's hard for me to see him even agreeing to whatever deal they offered him previously, and it's hard for me to see the team giving in. I think one important here is that, one important thing here is that not every, like,

contract is viewed equally by a player. And what I mean by that is, the way I read it is Lamar could be more likely to sign a contract with another team that he would not be willing to sign with the Ravens at this point. because he feels wrong by them, because he feels like they've seen him since he was a rookie. They've seen him play through. They've seen his ups and downs, a lot more ups and downs given their record with Lamar Jackson as the quarterback. And yet he will still feel like, man, they were not willing to invest that in me,

even though they had an up-close look at who I was, what I was about, the way I connected with team, all whatever things you want to mention where he could look at another team and say, hey, they believe in me. They're willing to offer me this contract. fact, it'll be a fresh start. Let's go there and let's play. So maybe I'll be wrong because listen, right now, you know, the Ravens do have the leverage. They've got the franchise tag in their pocket. Like you said, they're saying all the right things publicly. I think there's a nice, their setup in terms of owner GM coach. This is an advantage of kind of having different

layers to it. You know, John Harbaugh can just come out there and say, I, you know, I wasn't the one making the decisions on what the offer was to Lamar. Jackson. I love Lamar Jackson. I want him to be our quarterback. Let's go try to win the Super Bowl. And so there is kind of that divide where if that relationship stays closed and even if it's, you know, fractured with higher up members of the organization, it can still work for the team. But man, I just look at it. And like for me at this point in time and this is a snapshot in time, again, March 27th, for me to picture him like going back into that building and that locker room. And then you have the dynamics of teammates and the culture and T. One thing we've seen, it's Seems like most players are like team Lamar Jackson. I mean, we have seen that, whether it's guys he's played with or other people in the league. So they're going to look at that and go, man, they weren't willing to take care of that guy. Are they going to be willing to take care of me?

What's this organization really all about? I just feel like it gets into a very messy, messy situation. And I think that even if the Ravens believed, and I actually do believe that they probably thought this was going to be the case that they could kind of navigate this, let the process play out, and eventually hold on to him. their quarterback, things change, dynamics change, relationships change, hurt feelings happen, all those things. At this point in time, it's hard for me to see him going back to the Ravens. So, yeah, a couple of nuts and bolts things on Lamar going back to the Ravens and how it all might work. Joel Corey has written about this for CBS Sports.

I was looking for the exact article when I was preparing for Lamar. I can't find the exact one, but I know I wrote it somewhere. So Lamar's on the non-exclusive tag, 32.4. The deadline at which you can negotiate a multi-year extension with a player who is on the tag is July 17th. So the Ravens haven't told July 17th to continue negotiating with Lamar Jackson for a multi-year extension. If that day passes and they don't have a multi-year extension, they can't extend him. They can, however, offer him a higher figure than the $32.4 million non-exclusive tag for one year. So Lamar, again, this is like a hypothetical world.

But Lamar can come and say like, hey, I'm not playing for the number. non-exclusive number. I'll play for the exclusive number, 46 million, and the Raven can go, yeah, okay, and they can bump that number up. So the deadline is for a multi-year extension. They still can negotiate as to the one-year figure that Lamar gets paid if we get to that point in training camp, we're like Lamar's holding out. It's also worth noting that so long as Lamar doesn't sign his franchise tender, which, you know, that's a little bit of logistics here, when the Ravens tag Lamar, franchise tag, they set aside the cap space such that they can keep him at that number. Lamar still has to sign the franchise tender, which says, I agree to

play for the Baltimore Ravens at this number. I agree to this figure for this year. Lamar has yet to do that, from what I understand. And so, Lamar as right now, is not signed with the Ravens. He's not signed with anybody. And so Lamar can hold out from camp with no penalty because he is not a contracted player. If he signs the tender, he becomes contracted player and he can no longer hold out from camp without incurring financial penalties. So that's some nuts and bolts and terms of what July into August and September might look like. So even if we get to like pass the draft and Lamar's not going anywhere and no teams are training for him and no teams are signing them to an offer sheet, we're still going to be sitting around with Lamar probably wanting more than $32.4 million

to play for the Ravens if he even wants to play with the Ravens again. And we're going to be dealing with Lamar holding out from camp and not having really any incentive to show back up. So yeah, there's a way in August this gets real sweaty, real sweaty for the Ravens. By the way, Ravens have done nothing to add to their roster in part because they've got $32 million committed to, I mean, that roster, that is, look at the offensive depth chart there. That is not a good place to be in. No, no, no, no, no. John Harbaugh told me also at owner meetings today that Rashad Bateman's coming back healthy, which was hilarious because the Ravens team social media account got the clip up of Harbaugh saying that Rashad Bateman's doing great with unbelievable swiftness. Everybody's just retweeten Lamar, retweet himar, retweet him mar, retweet himar, retweet him mar, retweet himar. And the Ravens are like, look at it. and coach John Harbaugh talking about X first round wide receiver, Rashad Bainman. Look how excited we are for Rashad coming back. It's good work, social team. Bravo to you.

Oh, my God. To what you said, though, about Lamar and, like, even a one-year deal and they give in, I will pay more. I mean, a one-year deal, you're going to do a one-year deal and then do all this over again? Next off season? I mean, that is hard for me to have that hanging over your season. That does not seem to me like a recipe for success.

It's almost like you got to agree to terms on the. long-term deal and, you know, try to make sure everyone's feelings are in order and relationships are mended or nothing and he's not going to play for them again. So we'll see. All right. Question number five, which teams, and this has been discussed often, we've discussed it on this show, which teams should show interest, which teams will show interest. Ben, what I did, I haven't told you about this. I'm springing it on you. I have split the teams into four categories. Category number one, don't even have a meeting about it, not happening. Category number two, at least have a meeting.

Category number three should be considering it, and category four should be strongly considering it. I was going to just read the teams out to you in each category, and if you have an issue, you can tell me, and then, of course, we can offer our thoughts on what we actually think should happen and will happen. Does this work for you? I want you to know that when I was...

Did you do the same thing? No, I thought of I do the same. thing and I was like that seems like too much work. I'm not going to do that for the spot. So I'm glad you did. It's a complimentary football, baby. Here we go. All right. All right. Don't even have a meeting. If I say a team and you disagree, just stop me and we'll talk about and we'll hash it out right there. Okay. So this is don't even have a meeting about acquiring Lamar Jackson. The Buffalo Bills. Yes. The Cincinnati Bengals. Yes. The Cleveland Browns. Yeah. I mean, yeah. The Jacksonville.

Jaguars. Yeah. The Houston Texans. No, disagree strongly. Okay. Why? They don't have a quarterback. You got to at least have a meeting about it.

You watch your guys, right? You prep all your draft prospects, and then you sit down and go, okay, who do we really think here has a chance of being as good as Lamar is in two years? And then you say, okay, none of them. And then you say, all right, well, financially speaking, in terms of like the contract size, like how much we'd have to pay Lamar versus how much you'd have to pay these guys, the surplus value, like who's going to provide more value on their rookie contract than Lamar would provide on his. And then you go, okay, maybe we like

Bryce Young that much. And then you feel good about it and you go from there. I don't think the Texans are going to do it. But absolutely you have to have a meeting about it when your current starting quarterback is Davis Mills. That's like one of Newton's laws. It equals MC squared, force equals mass, maximum acceleration. If Davis feels your starting quarterback, you have to talk about Lamar Jackson. To me, that's one that you could hash out, you know, while you're getting lunch or coffee. I don't think that's going to be that difficult of a decision to me. When you talk about what you have to give up, multiple first round picks, what you have to pay Lamar Jackson,

versus getting a quarterback, either Bryce Young or C.J. Stroud on a rookie contract, which will be four years, Aiden Hutchinson last year, four years, $35.7 million. versus five years, $230 million? I mean, to me, all right, but that's fine. If you want to bump them up into at least have a meeting category, that's fine. To me, you know, if I have the number two pick, I like these quarterbacks. I like both C.D. Stroud and Bryce Young, that would be pretty easy for you to just say. Let's take them.

Where do you have the Panthers? Well, hold on. Come on, you can jump ahead. Let me finish my not even have a meeting group. All right. The Kansas City Chiefs. Yeah. The Los Angeles Chargers.

Yeah. The Philadelphia Eagles. Yes. However. He paused. Well, because since this whole Lamar thing started at the meeting the last season, I, a big Eagles fan, have just been incessantly tweeting about how good Lamar's going to look in midnight green. I didn't know we were going to get the season from Jalen Hertz that we did.

Well, I still think Lamar's better quarterback than Jalen Hertz. There's a dance with the one that brought you theorem here that I don't think you're trying to make you make a change. So I think you're good. Yeah, you're not taking the meeting. the Dallas Cowboys Yeah The Carolina Panthers There you go

I also have them in this I guess I could have just said that But I don't have it in order So I didn't know Right exactly That's why when you were like Well let me finish I was like well the same logic's got to apply for both

Right I never said listen you didn't do this at all I did this in five minutes Before the podcast started I thought I shouldn't be poo pooing When I admitted it on this show That I wasn't trying to do this much I think right, the same logic applies for the Panthers.

Yes. Right, they're at one and they trade it up for one as opposed to Houston who just kind of sat there at two and earned the pick the old-fashioned way. So that makes a conversation a little bit different, right? You trade Future First and DJ Moore to get a pick that you then trade for Lamar. Like that I think makes it, does make it trickier.

But you have to. To me, like when your quarterback room looks, who the Panthers got right now? Matt Corral? Yes. They don't have PJ Walker. Yeah, they don't have Sam Darnold. Once Matt Corrales, QB1 on the depth chart, you're having conversation about everybody.

Oh, Andy Dalton. They signed Andy, dear boy, Andy Dalton. Andy, yes. Okay, well, guess what? I still think you're probably taking a meeting with having signed Andy Dolan. Now, these next two are sort of tricky. It's more because of what they already did. So it's kind of like the Panthers, honestly.

It's because of what they've already done this offseason. The Giants, I mean, they could have a meeting, but they just committed $82 million guaranteed to Daniel Jones. over the next two years, so I feel like they've already made their decision, and then the Saints, they just committed to Derek Carr. So I don't think those teams are even having a meeting at this point. Yeah, I, man, if you're the Giants right now,

do you wish you franchise tagged Jones? Do you wish you, yeah? I've been saying that for, yeah, quite a while. Regardless of Lamar, I thought that was the smarter move, but anyway. I agree. All right. Next, so that was 12 teams. So we're taking 12 teams.

we mostly agree on. If you want to throw the Texans out or whatever, that's fine, who we feel like don't need to have a meeting. Nine teams, at least have a meeting. The Pittsburgh Steelers. Now, this would be spicy, Ben. The Pittsburgh in the same. Now, listen, I know the Ravens are not going to be inclined

to trade Lamar Jackson to the Pittsburgh Steelers, but couldn't the Steelers could really just basically force the Ravens to have to pay a fully guaranteed contract to Lamar Jackson because the Ravens aren't going to let him then go play for the Pittsburgh Steelers. So maybe the Steelers would say, well, that's a bad thing

because then they're going to have Lamar Jackson on their football team for the next five years. But I like Kenny Pickett more than you, but I'm definitely at least having a conversation about it, even though it seems highly, highly unrealistic. The Denver Broncos, I mean... Okay, explain the map to me, like a five.

I mean, I don't know. There's probably no. way for this to happen, but you have very, very, very, very, very, very, very rich owners. And so maybe there's a way you at least have a meeting. You say, all right, we've tried, we've, it's like, you know, just the physics on the chalkboard. You're coming up with the formulas and you're saying, all right, we can't make this happen, but at least we had a meeting about it. The Green Bay Packers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of like a Jordan. Again, financial considerations are very tricky there, but yeah. Yeah. All right. I'm

I can't wait to see your reaction for this one. The Chicago Bears. Yeah, 100% yes. Oh, okay. I got no, I got no to do that. I like Adjusting Fields. I love Adjusting Fields. Again, this is a, when your quarterback death chart looks like X, you are forced to have a

conversation about Lamar Jackson. And, like, Fields for as much as exciting as he is, and he'd be good bait for the Ravens, you can't, you can't put enough eggs in the Justin Fields basket to justify not even thinking about Lamar. Okay. I know you're going to like this one. The San Francisco. 49ers. I should maybe bump them up the category. I don't know. What are your thoughts?

I have them and at least have a meeting, not should be considering it. When I wrote my Lamar piece, I said that the three teams that I, if I had to guess right now, who Lamar ends up the quarterback for, I had the Jets, because it was like, Will Rogers Go? Well, not Rogers go. We didn't know yet at that time. I had the Lions, and I had the Niners. The Niners have signed Sam Donald, and then John Lynch told me this morning that if Brock Purdy could play right now, he'd be like the starting pitcher for the Metz or something. He was like, Brock is amazing. Brock's, he's there with Brock's body of work, he's earned it. Brother started for eight games,

but okay. Did he use the phrase body of work? I think it was body of work. I'll double check, but the Niners absolutely should have the conversation. I just figuring out the Niners quarterback conversation, man, or their quarterback prioritization is just like speaking

a different language. I don't even know where they're at. Well, it sounds like they definitely did not give a big boat of confidence for Trey Land. So that to me made it, you know, all right, throw Tray Lance in there with a pick or something. Here we go. It's, uh, it's, uh, it's, quote, I think Brock has earned the right with the way he played that he's probably the leader in the clubhouse at that.

If we were to line up, he'd probably take that first snap. So he didn't say body of work, but just earn, earn the right. Earned the right. Our seventh round rookie quarterback QB3 entering the season has. All right. There you go. Uh, next up. This is sort of a wild cardish team.

the Seattle Seahawks. They had made a one-year commitment to Gino Smith. Really? It's one-year 27. It's the best, I think the best contract from a team perspective for probably any quarterback this off-season because they get him back for one year. He has incentives where if he falls out, he gets paid more, yet they're not committing to him long-term.

I think they're trying to create this. I don't think they're going to take a quarterback at their pick, but they're certainly trying to create the impression that they are by taking it. these photos every quarterback's pro day. But do they have a long, is Gino a long-term solution? He's what, 33, 34 years old, right? Gino Smith, would they be intrigued?

33. 33. I, yeah, they're probably, again, like, it's like you have to take a meeting. I will say that they make so much more sense going young than going guy on his second deal, right? Like, they're just in a perfect situation, which is why they're doing all this positioning that they are, to try. take a young quarterback, not necessarily, you know, at five, wherever they're picking five.

I can't remember. Are they five? Five or six? Yeah, the five. Yeah, yeah. So they're perfectly positioned not necessarily there, but like do trade backs, trade up into the first round, like, you know, do kind of do whatever. But they make so much sense to take a young guy that like, Lamarst is a little bit of a square fit just because like, all right, you have Lamar, he's ready now, you're paying him now, and you have to change the whole offense to make sense for him, because he's very different stylistically than Gino is. And so. it's a bit of a weird one. But yeah, you still talk about it. The Los Angeles Rams, I don't know if there's any way to make it work with whatever they're paying, $60 million to Stofford.

What's the next category up for them? What's the next category? Next category is should be considering it. I'd put Rams and should be considering it. I mean, the way that they're trying to move on from Stafford makes you think that elbow just doesn't work. I'm not sure they got to, I'm not sure they have a quarterback in the room right now, put it that way. Until we see Stafford healthy, I don't know what. to believe. And so to me that they'd even get bumped up a little bit. And Jordan Rodriguez done good. I mean, it's reporting on this for the athletic. It certainly seems like they're basically taking an L for this year and setting themselves, trying to set themselves up for 2024, which who knows what the team will look like at that point. Who knows how interested Sean McVeigh will be

interested in coaching at that point. We'll see. And then the last one I had, the Arizona Cardinals. I mean, I don't know if they're probably better off, as we said, just stinking it up this year and then going and getting Caleb Williams next year, but you at least have a meeting, I would assume, if you're that. Okay. Weird meeting. We try, let's let's trade Tyler for Lamar and have just a second enormous quarterback contract for a very talented mobile quarterback who's slightly more injured than we'd like for him to be. Really, it's like, I think you're getting a better player, but you are kind of weirdly in the same spot after making the move. So yeah, probably better to hold your water. They might, they might belong in the not even have a meeting

category. All right. Should be considering it. So there should be considering it and should strongly be considering it. Should be considering it. I have the Miami Dolphins. Would you like to bump them up or are you okay with them here? Yeah.

I mean, like they were one of the teams to immediately hit strong no. The second he got non-exclusive tagged, they picked up to his fifth year option. They are fully pod committed. They are doing two a thing. It's great. They should be considering Lamar though. Like, I mean. Sheesh.

Yes. I would have been very intrigued by Lamar with Tyreek Hill and Jalen Waddle and Mike McDaniel, but that's just me. The New England Patriots, Benjamin. Yes. Is there any chance they just swoop in here? Look at Belichick's history of playing against mobile quarterbacks. There's no way he doesn't think that they're really good because he sucks at defending them.

He can't do it. Defensively, it's one of his biggest weaknesses over the course of his career. Yeah, no, absolutely. And, like, you know, their whole offensive coordinator bamboozling, notwithstanding. Like, I don't think that they've seen enough from Mac over two years. Same to the only just feels. We were like, yeah, we'd be fine. If we kept, like, give this guy a third year and, like, you can continue to get better.

And we've seen those great stuff. But not enough to keep you off Lamar. I like that a lot. The New York Jets, this Aaron Rogers thing hanging in the balance. As Jason Fitzgerald, I think of over the cap, tweeted out. I mean, if nothing else, they should. at least be putting it out there that they're you know they should at least go hang out with Lamar Jackson for a day you know in this whole leverage game with Aaron Rogers to at least

make it seem like hey we actually do have at least uh one other option here Joe Douglas has strong you know connections with the Ravens organization that locker room would probably love uh have Lamar Jackson in there should be considering it should really be considering it is it would this be Mama Solax first choice for Jets quarterback for 2023 yeah yeah Yeah, Mama Solic, we definitely prefer this. I just feel like the Jets negotiating with Rogers and his whole process of getting information out into the media and then Lamar and his whole process of getting information out to the media.

She's like a big headache multiplied by a big headache. I think if the Ravens are, excuse me, if the Jets are for sure trading premium picks for a star quarterback, they'd be better served getting Lamar than getting Aaron Rogers. With that said, Nathaniel Hackett is their OC. Alan Lazard is on this team, and I think that Rogers is going to cost less than Lamar will in terms of the trade deal.

Accordingly, I would understand if they already feel bot committed on a better value option, and they're going to go for Rogers that way. But, like, yeah, they would benefit them greatly to generate at least synthetic interest in Lamar Jackson. I think that would be good for them in terms of negotiation with Packers. Remains to be seen if the Packers actually take that seriously

because it's very hard to take the Jets seriously at this stage. Obviously, it would be more of a longer-term option and then Aaron Rogers. And the last one in this category, the Las Vegas Raiders, which I honestly didn't know where to put them. I mean, if you've listened to this podcast, you know I'm mostly just annoyed by the way they operate,

but I put them here should be considering it. Okay with that? Yeah. All right. Should be strongly considering it. I've got seven teams here, Benjamin. Let's see. How you feel about them?

The Tennessee Titans, which the more I think about it, I mean, they got no other. I mean, Malik Willis fine, but they've really got no other path to being a good football team with kind of where they are right now. And I would like that combo, Lamar Jackson and Mike Brable. All right.

They're meeting with a bunch of the rookies, too. So they're definitely in the quarterback market. The Indianapolis Colts? 100% yes. They gaffed it absolutely half to 100% should be looking into this. And I think they are. Like Zach Giefer was on McAfee saying we haven't ruled it out, which to me means they're doing homework.

The Washington Commanders. Vibes, terrible. Football building. Yes, it makes sense. A little sleeperish one here. The Minnesota Vikings. Yeah, I've seen this one. I've seen this one around a little bit. I don't know how much dead cap they take on from the Kirk deal. The Kirk deal's been restructured so many times that I can't remember how it works anymore. Yeah, you can trade Kurt. You can trade Kirk Cousins.

I mean, he has a no trade clause, but someone is like Kirk Cousins. He is a 20.25 cap hit this year. That's all he hits the cap for this year, with a dead cap hit of 48.75 million. So just a little bit more dead cap. You'd be losing $28.7 million if Kirk's off the roster. So you have to carry both Lamar and Kirk probably, which is a little weird. I don't know about that. There are ways you can figure it out.

But if you're doing that, it means you're trading Kirk to somebody who really wants him, and they're working with you on the money, which, who, over and they wants Kirk. Ravens really want Kirk? I don't know if the Ravens really want Kirk. Somebody would want Kirk, I think. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. Yeah. I mean, the one thing with, you know, like Lamar Jackson's kind, like if you look at just Deshawn Watson's contract structure, like last year, the way they set that up, like, I mean, his cap hit for the first year was like $9 million worth something. And so I know we think of these big dollars, but if you're giving a big signing bonus and guaranteeing stuff, you can spread that out over the course of it.

contract. The Detroit Lions, who extra point taken, has been a yes on for a long time, correct? Oh, it, my dreams, Lamar Jackson is a Detroit line. Come on, how good would the offense be? That line? Ah! The Tampa Bay Bucks. Now, I don't know how they would make it work financially, but, I mean, they got nothing. Right. I mean, Baker-Mayfield, Kyle Trask falls under the if your roster looks like this theorem. So yes, I would say that like they even more than like the Cardinals and the Rams, they probably need a little bit of like the reset year. And so, but I mean they brought you Meldeen back.

I don't know. They're there as tough as young players. Yeah. They're as tough for me to figure out as the Raiders are. But a lot of that's like not their fault. It's just like, you know, they knew that for as long as they were carrying Brady was going to kind of be like this. But yeah, looking to it for sure.

And then the last one is the team who said, know right away, but would make sense is the Atlanta Falcons, who I think, you know, we would agree with should be strongly considering it. All right. So we did that whole exercise. I came back, just my closing thoughts on it. I keep coming back to the Lions as the team that I would, if I could pick one team that I really want to do it, and I think should do it with two first round picks. It's the Lions. Again, Jared Gough played well last year. When the pieces around him are working for him, he can absolutely operate. highly efficient offense at the same time. I think Lamar Jackson is more of an elevator,

more of a longer-term solution. You're going to be able to run the ball better with him. I would love that fit of Lamar Jackson with the Lions, NFC North NFC. The Titans, again, for what we just said, it's kind of like they got to do, you know, they're in this weird spot here where that could really change their fortunes and how quickly they're going to be able to be competitive and get out of this hole here. I like that one. And then I like the Vikings as a sleeper. I mean, listen, Kurt Cousins is signed for one more year. They don't really have a, they don't have a long-term solution at quarterback. This is a situation where they could come in and pounce in a weak NFC and be relevant right away. So those are the teams I have. Who are your,

lions are your favorite? Lions are my favorite. Titans are up there. I like the Colts. I just like in terms of like again going back to the which owner is going to go out on the island and do the thing that makes all the other owners mad at him. Jim Mersey, step up to the plate, brother. Here, this is your song has been sung, man. This is Jim Mersey's business. I'm not there on the Vikings. Lamar in Minnesota.

I just don't, I don't know. Money wise to me, that's tricky. And team building wise, that's tricky. But I like those three. commanders, if the commanders had a new owner right now, I would say that they're a good sleeper for it. The thing is, they're the process of getting a new owner. So if they get a new owner before Lamar gets moved, commanders, I think, you know, become a little bit more likely. But they got, they got to handle their own backyard first. All right. Let's go to final question.

Question number six, how does this thing play out? We are, I mean, you've been saying that. We've been talking about this for a long time. It has taken on different twists and turns over the previous months. We have what, April, May, June, July, August, September, six months until week one and the start of the NFL season. What's going to happen here in the next few months, Benjamin Sollack? I think we're going to get, at the very least, through the NFL draft before the Margets moved. And then I think in the immediate wake of the NFL draft and the, the teams that are able to get a quarterback and are not able to get a quarterback, you know, starting on day one, we'll see if maybe there's a chance that Lamar gets moved,

right? Look at the Colts at four. If a team gets in front of them, moves up to the Cardinals at three, and then three quarterbacks go, and they don't get the guy that they want, and they didn't want to send the fourth overall pick to the Ravens in the offer sheets, and they trade back, and then they just send you the other thing. Like, there's, I think we won't see movement at the earliest until after the NFL draft. And then I don't think that a team gets it done with Lamar.

I don't think a team signs a tune off for sheet or trades for him. And I think we get to August. And I think he's holding out from camp. And I think we get into September and he's holding out, you know, as we approach the regular season. And then after that, like, somebody get hurt. Somebody's rookie quarterback look really bad. Like, I don't know. Something's got to happen.

Something's got to give. I don't think we see, I'd be stunned if we see Lamar get moved before the draft. And I think if there's a chance, if it happens, it'll happen, you know, around the draft or after the draft. and that kind of will open the window a little bit, but I think we're getting towards a training camp hold out. And then from there, it's kind of how that goes and what the Ravens look like

and how much Lamar wants to play. The world starts to look a lot different in August, September, that it does in February, March. But to me, I think we're in for a long staring contest. All right, so percentage chance he's starting for the Baltimore Ravens on week one of the 2023 season is... 10. Like starting week one.

Okay, so you think he's going to either just be holding out or, okay, all right. All right. Wow. Very low. I think that after the draft, we're going to, there will be a team that surfaces. There will be a team that says, you know what, we thought maybe we could trade up for Anthony Richardson or that he was going to fall to us. Right. Titans. Yeah, a team that thought wants to say, we don't want to do it now, but what we were hoping

for in the draft didn't happen. Now let's revisit this. Let's at least have a kind of conversation, see what he's asking for, and go for it. I don't think, I don't think as we did this exercise, I was talking myself into the Vikings a little bit. I know what you're saying, but I look at a team that just has no options in 2024 and beyond in terms of quarterback. I think they could be a team to watch the Colts, absolutely, because they're in that spot where they really don't know what's going to come to them with the fourth overall pick who's going to be available. So I think those are probably a couple of the teams I'm looking at. I think a trade will happen between after the draft and probably training camp.

I think somewhere in that window, the ravens will say, you know what, this is not salvageable. Maybe there are things we could have done differently, but this guy has no interest in playing for us anymore. We can get some picks for it. We can look ahead. We've got other good players on the roster. And I think there will be another team who is able to come to terms with Lamar Jackson. I don't think he'll get the fully guaranteed, but I think he'll say, you know what,

for this other team, I'm willing to give in a little bit because they want me. I wouldn't assign that deal with the Ravens, but I'm ready for a new start, and let's look ahead to this season. So we will see. It's not going away. I don't know how much more we can talk about Lamar Jackson.

We just talked about it for an hour. If there aren't more changes. The Lamarathon. Yeah, our second Lamarathon will be coming probably sometime in May after the draft happens, and we're all trying to figure out where he goes again after that. That's true. The only thing I wanted to say for an extra point taken, unless you had something additional. Go ahead. I was just going to say, I'm curious to see what happens with the other

quarterbacks this offseason. I mean, really, they could all say, we're doing, we want fully guaranteed contracts too, Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, Jalen Hertz. Now, the truth is most quarterbacks who signed big deals in their mid-20s, the guarantees aren't that big of a deal. They end up seeing all the money on their contract. Like teams, you know, don't move away. from those players. So it's almost a scenario where they would have to decide, is this worth it? Do we really need to do this?

Obviously, you want the guarantees, but it's almost like it's more for the greater good, the other players, and to get everything moving in a direction, as you alluded to earlier, in terms of guaranteed contracts. But, I mean, those deals could happen really at any time, and then we would have another data point

in terms of what Lamar Jackson is asking for, what teams might be willing to give him, because you have some big names up for contract, extensions at quarterback this offseason. All right. Joe Burrow, I want a fully guaranteed deal. Bengals, you will not be getting one. Let's make it real messy, baby.

Here we go. All right, that will do it for this edition. Extra Point taken, the Lamarathon. Hopefully we answered the questions to the best of our ability. Thank you to Ben Solak. Thank you to Cliff Augustine for producing additional production supervision by Connor Nevins. Arjuna Ram Gopal State 2 to the Ringer NFL feed throughout the week as we will react to news

from the NFL owners meetings and whatever else is happening. Until next week, thank you for listening.