The Ringer NFL Show - Lamar’s Nonexclusive Tag, Daniel Jones's Extension, and Rodgers to Meet With the Jets

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Austin and Steven discuss the Ravens placing Lamar Jackson on a nonexclusive franchise tag, Daniel Jones’s contract extension, running backs being placed on the franchise tag, and Aaron Rodgers meeting with the New York Jets. Hosts: Austin Gayle and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Austin Gill here with Stephen Ruiz. I'm filling in for Nora Princiatti. I won't do her justice, but Steve, it's great to podcast again. Yeah, I guess is this the first emergency podcast? of the offseason? It might be the first emergency pod. It might be the first emergency pod. We are recording this at 139 Pacific,

39 minutes after the franchise tag or tag deadline in the NFL. Some people have been tagged. Some people haven't been tagged. Lamar Jackson is the first name I have to bring up. This guy got the non-exclusive tag. Austin Gale, what the hell is the non-exclusive tag? Let me break it down for you.

This is via NFL.com. The non-exclusive franchise tag is the most commonly used tag. often termed the franchise tag. What happens when you sign or offer the franchise tag or the non-exclusive franchise tag to a player is they get a one-year contract, which is an average of the top five salaries

of the player at their position, right? So quarterback for Lamar Jackson, or 120% increase of their previous salary, whichever is higher. Why does that matter? Because if you franchise tag a player twice, obviously that second time you franchise tag them, it's going to be 120% of that salary.

What's important about the non-exclusive is that this tag player, so Lamar Jackson, for example, can negotiate with other teams a contract. And if a contract is agreed to and say the Baltimore Ravens do not agree to that contract or match that contract, that team say it is the Falcons, the Jets, the commanders, the Raiders, any team looking for a quarterback could then offer that to Lamar and send two first round picks. No negotiation on the picks, right? It's like two first round picks. and Lamar Jackson then is signing with another club. The exclusive franchise tag is a little bit different. That's why it's important that Lamar got the non-exclusive with the exclusive franchise tag. The players, same salary range,

but they do not have that opportunity to negotiate with other teams. And then the transition tag is just a cheaper franchise tag in a lot of ways. It's an average of the top 10 salaries at their position. And if a deal is made with that player, say Lamar Jackson got the franchise transition tag and it was negotiating with the Falcons, this would ever happen.

If that team does not match the Falcons offer, there's no trade compensation, no two first round picks. Your thoughts, first, throw the tags up out the window, your thoughts on Lamar Jackson getting the not-exclusive franchise tag? It makes no sense to me, like from the perspective of the team, because you would imagine at the starting point in trade negotiations, which is where you would get if you had put the exclusive franchise tag on them, presumably if you couldn't come to a long-term deal.

And the deadline for that is July 15th. I would think the starting point for trade talks is at least two first picks, first round picks. Like you have to think just two years ago, Carson Wentz got a first round pick in return for him from the Colts. So that's my first. My first thought is the Ravens have kind of screwed this up. And I know, I know, like, Lamar is coming off another injured year. It was two years in a row. And people talked about how risky it was going into last year without a deal.

And there's been talk about the fully guaranteed demand that he was. He wants the Deshawn Watson deal, basically. And people are questioning whether he's worth that. But you have to think they were able to renegotiate a deal after year three. They had a full year before Deshaun Watson signed his deal in Cleveland to get this deal done, which is typically when these guys get signed. Like people are talking about Joe Burrow signing an extension this offseason. And they didn't do it.

So they let Lamar get to this point. And now it feels like we're at a point of no return. because I don't see how he hits the open market and doesn't get what he wants. Kirk Cousins hit the open market and got fully guaranteed money. Ryan Tannahill basically got fully guaranteed money from the Titans without hitting the open market. If a 23-year-old, he was 23 when he won MVP, he's 25 now. If he hits the open market, like he might make $50 million a year, $60 million a year. So I don't know.

I don't know what the Ravens are betting on. I did not expect this right away, and I know I just went through a boring slog of explaining the non-exclusive exclusive and transition tag, but very quickly, I'm going to fire up the pod. I disagree. My opinion of giving him the non-exclusive franchise tag is that this allows Lamar Jackson to explore a market. It allows him to negotiate contracts with other teams. Now, what's going to happen? Teams, not the Falcons, according to, I think it was Deanna Rossini of ESPN or maybe a different reporter, Justina Anderson, whoever it was. The Falcons are not interested in Lamar Jackson, for whatever reason.

I don't know if Arthur Blank, the owner of the Falcons hasn't seen the Lamar Jackson jersey swaps. Those things are hot. I don't know if he's seen them yet. He should. But the Falcons are out. Other teams will be in. The Jets potentially, the Raiders, commanders, lions, any team that doesn't have a good quarterback should be in.

But teams are going to offer him some money, right? They're going to offer him probably a fully guaranteed deal. They're going to offer him high dollar. What I think is going to happen is the Baltimore. or Ravens are now essentially allowing the market to set his contract because they were in a stalemate with him. They don't know what's going to be. Like Lamar Jackson wants more. Lamar Jackson wants more. Now Lamar Jackson is potentially without an agent going to negotiate with three, four, five other teams. Highest bidder gets that offer given to the Ravens. I think the Ravens are going to match it.

The Ravens are essentially going to say, what's the most a team will pay for you? We'll pay it. Because I don't think they let him leave the franchise. Honestly, I just think they were really struggling to set the market themselves, negotiate the market themselves, in a one-of-one conversation with Lamar Jackson, obviously the Ravens front office. And now, if the Jets say will give you X amount of money, say it is like matching or narrowly beating the Deshaun Watson contract, I think the Ravens look at that and they say, okay, we'll pay it.

If you see that another team's willing to pay it, we'll pay it. Now, if they don't, that's where I would agree with you, right? If the Ravens completely screw this up, if Lamar Jackson comes with the contract, like, yeah, okay, take it. and they only get two first round picks in return, that would be bananas. I just don't think that's what the Ravens do. The Ravens obviously had the statement that came out saying they're still committed to getting a long-term contract done with Lamar Jackson. I think giving him specifically the non-exclusive franchise tag allows him for a negotiated marketplace.

He's going to come back with the biggest offer. And I think ultimately the Ravens are going to match it. If he got the exclusive franchise tag, he's not allowed to negotiate with other teams. So then these stale conversations that have been going on for three years, like you said, would just continue. and I think to no point, to no avail. So I don't know. I think the Ravens are, I wouldn't say smart to let it get to this point, but because it has gotten to this point,

I think giving him the non-exclusive and then being willing, they have to be willing to match whatever contract he brings to them. That, I think, is the move. The other way around this too, and some people are tweeting about this as well, is that there is this scenario where independent of, obviously, Lamar Jackson negotiating his contract and finding one for an offer sheet and all those things

and the Ravens matching it is the Ravens can start to negotiate a tag-in trade deal with another team where those contract parameters are set up and the trade parameters are set up. I don't know, man. I don't think this is the worst for the Baltimore Ravens. I honestly think it was a necessary move for them doing non-exclusive over exclusive to allow Lamar Jackson to identify what teams are willing to pay. I think this facility, I do think it's spurs action. I do agree with that. Things have gotten stale. But I don't think it spurs action in a way that benefits the Ravens in the end. I don't think they believe that because I think they should just pay Lamar Jackson whatever he wants. I think he's worth whatever he's asking for.

And then it could have avoided this whole thing just by giving him the money he wanted a month ago. I think what this leads to is a trade. I think they end up doing a sign and trade with a team like, say, Miami, who would have to do a sign and trade with them because they don't have the two first round picks. Or they would either have to do that or they would have to wait until after the draft to sign him. And then that way they have their two first round picks back. That's what I think it leads to. And if that's how it ends, if it ends in any way where Lamar Jackson's not playing in a Ravens uniform in week one in September, I think it's an L for the Ravens.

And this made this decision to give them the non-exclusive tag makes that more of a reality or more of a possibility. And that's a loss for them. I don't know. I don't see the upside of letting another team come up with the contract and come up with the structure. because the only option they have is matching that offer word for word, clause for clause. Like they have to do that deal.

We saw this play out with Alex Mack. I think it was 2015. The Ravens are the Jaguars put like a poison pill clause into his contract. The Browns had no choice but to match it. And that allowed Alex Mack to leave in free agency the next year or two years later. And the Browns got nothing back in return. They run the risk of that happening. And maybe there's a team out there with deep pockets that have enough cash to just throw out Lamar.

in year one. And now the Ravens are forced to just shell out a bunch of money they didn't want to spend in the first place. So I don't, I just don't know, I don't see how this works out in a way that,

where it looks like a W for them. That's a great point, honestly. And something that, you know, I didn't even take an account that a team could look at the Baltimore Raven salary cap situation for the next three years and put together a contract

in addition to meeting or exceeding Lamar Jackson's expectations for a contract. Say it is in, you know, the Deshawn Watson range of five years $230 million or five years $2.35 fully guaranteed. And within that contract, the structure of that contract, by researching what the salary cap situation is for Baltimore,

make sure, essentially make sure that Baltimore can't match this offer. That will be interesting to follow. If that ultimately happens, the Ravens took one of the biggest else of the off seasons that I've seen in a long time. Because if Lamar Jackson is not playing in Baltimore next year, I would be appalled if I'm in the Baltimore Ravens front office. That sucks. That absolutely sucks. And anyone, I'm going to say it right now, I'm going to say it proud.

anyone on Twitter, anyone in the NFL, anyone alive, that is saying, I've gotten tweets and response to Lamar Jackson going places. Like, he can't even pass. He hasn't won a place. But you stop. If you don't think Lamar Jackson is worth what Watson recede, I mean, the Falcons two, three years ago were willing to give to Sean Watson the quote unquote, keys to the city.

If you do not think Lamar Jackson is worth that, you don't know ball to quote Steve Ruiz. Or just like being a human being, like a good human being. You don't know that. You don't know morals? I don't know. But one thing I will point out, like, just to argue your point for you, the Ravens are not a dumb team. Like, they did their homework. They probably have a good idea or they think they do of what his market is going to be.

I don't think they made this move. They just didn't think of this last night. This has been planned out. And I wouldn't be surprised if the league does kind of push back against Lamar because of what he's fighting for. He's fighting for a fully guaranteed deal, which that's a bad precedent for the other teams too. and if he gets this, that changes contracts forever. I mean, exactly. I mean, it's legitimately changed contracts as the Sean Watson signed his.

It's legitimately changed how people think about contracts, specifically quarterback contracts moving forward. Let's put a pin in. No, tie a bow on the Lamar Jackson conversation, move to some of the other tag conversations that we have or tag decisions that we have. I'm going to list some teams that could potentially be suitors for Lamar Jackson.

The first team I had in my notes was the Falcons. is apparently not interested. Dumb, Dumb. Arthur Blank, write a blank check for Lamar Jackson and resurrect this franchise.

Regardless, you're dumb. After that, I have jets, Raiders, lions, Colts, Texans, some of the obvious ones. Panthers,

keep pounding. Packers, maybe. If Aaron Rogers leaves, I know those rumors we're going to talk about later, but if Aaron Rogers

leaves, the Packers could be interested, commanders, Bucks, what team stands out to you, maybe that isn't the ballings? What team stands out to you that isn't?

XFL Guardians could be the guardians but what team stands out to you or what teams stand out to you that maybe aren't the Falcons and aren't the Ravens that not the best

not the best fit for Jackson as much because I think any team gets Jackson but like the best fit for that team like the team that's most positioned to maximize Alamar Jackson and compete for the big dance

I don't know how it works out with the cap but the dolphins are the team that just jumps off my mind first. Just because of what they've built, that offense, it's a Mike McDaniel offense, they have Tyree Kill, they have Jalen Waddle. I would just end personally, I would like to see it. And I do think that that's the team with the highest ceiling

if they get a good quarterback. We saw what they were last year when Tua was playing hot. When he was hot for the first month, they looked like they could beat anybody in the NFL. They look like the best team in the NFL at a certain point. So I would say them, another team I would throw out there. I don't think it happens because I don't know if Lamar Jackson wants to play in Indy. But the Colts have a lot of money. They have a need. I think they have an owner who's desperate

to find a long-term solution at the quarterback position after what they've done the past few years. So I think that kind of makes sense. And then Carolina, like if you're Carolina, or if you're any team really, if you don't get Lamar Jackson, you fail to get Lamar Jackson. Like, that's how I would frame this offseason. He is available, readily available. You give up two first round picks and presumably if you give him a fully guaranteed deal, you get Lamar Jackson, one of the best players in the NFL. So I feel like any team that needs a quarterback, like you said, should be in on him. And if you don't get him, you failed.

Atlanta has already failed. They've said we're not even going to try. I am upset. I'm like physically upset, ill, even, that the Falcons that quickly were like, nah. What are you doing? For Desmond, Midder? Desmond Minter? What are we doing here?

Now, a fit that I like for vibes, I do like Detroit, Ben Johnson cooking with Lamar. I do like that. You get Jameson Williams back healthy for a full season next year. I like that. The other team I'll mention, and you mention them as well, is the Carolina Panthers. When I was in Indianapolis to the combine, Fitterer, Scott Fitterer, the GM of the Carolina Panthers,

said the, I'm paraphrasing, but it was pretty much quote for quote, we've been told go get the best of the best. And that was evident in how they attack the coaching hires, right? Frank Reich, they bring in Jim Caldwell as a senior advisor, one of the young up-and-coming defensive coordinators in Everett. Like, they went and got some dogs. And I think they're going to take that same approach in this offseason and in the same draft class.

Like, they're going to go up and try and get a young quarterback, maybe even move up to one to go get Bryce Young. And now that Lamar Jackson's out and about just ready to party, I think they're going to be in on Lamar Jackson as well and looking to structure contracts to make that happen. Because I do think that the GM, the coaching staff, they've been given essentially a blank check, the blank check that Arthur Blank should have wrote

to go get whoever and whatever to be, quote unquote, what Fitterer said at the Combine, the best of the best. We want the best of the best. And their owner has a lot of money. He's one of the richest owners in the NFL. He could put together that contract that we talked about that could kind of prevent Baltimore from even matching it.

I think Dave Teper is going to get in his baggett and make a play, for Lamar Jackson. Now, if it isn't Lamar, it could be Rogers. And if it's not Rogers, they're going to go try and get up to one. Like, I legitimately think Carolina, given what we've heard in Indy, given what we've seen and how they've hired, they're going for

they're shooting the moon. They're absolutely shooting the moon this all season. And if they don't, it's a failure by David Tepper. He's all talk, all bark, no bite. I agree. Let's take a quick break. Let's take a quick break and then we'll get into New York, New York. Daniel Jones, Sequin Barkley, Giants had some decisions. Let's get in them.

All right. Daniel Jones, officially has signed a four-year $160 million contract right at the deadline with the New York Giants. I think the structures in place, according to Albert Breer, over the first two years, he's getting essentially $82 million, which is bigger than the other re-signed. We saw from Vino Smith, bigger than the Saints contract for Derek Carr. So he's getting a little bit of a bigger payday, $41 million each year over the next two years. That decision also impacted, obviously, their other free agent, their other big name free agent in Saquan Barclay. Daniel Jones, your opinion of this contract, your opinion of the effort from Joe Shane,

the general manager of the New York Giants to get this deal done and to bring him back. And obviously looking at the structure of the deal, essentially two years, 82 million for Daniel Jones. I honestly, and we still have to see the full structure of it. We don't even know the guarantees, which is usually something that's reported initially. And the fact that it hasn't been reported yet leads me to believe that a lot of this money is fake. And it could end up being like a Derek Carr type deal where it was essentially a one-year deal

and the Raiders had an out after one year, or it could have turned into like a four-year deal worth the amount of money it was supposed to be worth. But even if it's not, it still sounds based on the initial reporting, like a two-year deal. He's getting most of the money in those first two years. And I mean, fine, sure.

I know it's a lot of money for a quarterback who probably is worse than the most average quarterback you can think of right now. But I do think he's a useful player. And I think one thing that they proved last year or one thing he proved last year is that he could be a useful piece in an offense that's well designed. And now the Giants didn't have any help for him. It's not like they had great receivers.

The offensive line was okay at times. Sequin was obviously a good player, but he's a running back and there's a limit on what a running back can do for an offense. But the offense worked in part because of Daniel Jones's athleticism and the things he could do. And I think people have trouble giving Daniel Jones credit for his total skill set, like his athleticism, his ability to run. Even like as a thrower, I do think he makes some impressive throws from time to time. Because he is this guy just like generic white dude who went to Duke, played for David Cutcliffe, who's only famous for coaching the Manning. So he was compared to Eli Manning instantly.

They're nothing alike. I still feel like he gets those comparisons, the Eli Manning, Daniel Jones, whose games are nothing alike at all. So I don't think he gets credit for that. And I think that makes him a quarterback that's probably worth like 25 to 30 million. And so you're paying them 40 million for the next two years. It's a bit of an overpay. But like I really don't get too concerned about these short-term commitments where there's not a lot of guaranteed money involved.

There's a lot of incentives involved. So, I mean, it can turn out to be a pretty decent deal for them, even if he stays at this rate of development. What I will say and why I think, I think it's important to frame the short-term commitments to veteran quarterbacks. Now, I know Derek Carr's a little bit older, but still, just bear with me here. Short-term commitments to veteran quarterbacks like we see with Gino Smith in Seattle, Derek Carr, New Orleans, and now obviously Daniel Jones in New York,

they're in this middle tier of the market. They're not getting 50 million plus, 55 million plus, like the best of the NFL. What's important is, is what stage of the rebuild or build towards the Super Bowl are you in? I think that for Seattle, it's legitimately trying to bounce back from what was obviously a very story franchise when they were competing with Super Bowls with Russell Wilson. It's a young team. I think they had the most snaps played by rookies of any team in the NFL last year. You're still learning to win. You know how you learn to win?

Short-term commitments to veteran quarterbacks until you find the guy or the guy. Now, Gino Smith could be the guy, right? You see him as a top 12, top 10 quarterback. Maybe he is the guy that can take them to a Super Bowl. But still, it's a short-term commitment to a veteran quarterback that can help you win now. Maybe you're not competing with a Super Bowl with Patrick Holmes as long as he's alive. But still, you're competing and you're helping a young team learn to win. I see the Giants very similarly, right?

It's a young football team with a now second year head coach, learning to win football games, learning to play in January. And I think that's why I back a decision to sign to Gino Smith, to sign to Daniel Jones, even if there isn't a lot of historical data suggesting that, oh, Daniel Jones could take them to the Super Bowl. Geno Smith can take the Seahawks to the Super Bowl.

Now for the Saints, and we haven't talked about the Derek Carr stuff, I know Sheel and Solac talked about that on the Monday podcast. the Saints aren't in that. They have an old team that has barely won. Their goals are completely different. They're like stay alive goals. I use this quote all the time because I think it's so great from Solac. The number one job for a GM in the NFL is not to win a Super Bowl to keep his job.

And if Mickey Loomis is doing anything, this guy is like, he's going to trade up pay Peter to Rob Paul or whatever the expression is to make sure that this team wins at least eight games. And I know they won seven last year, but like, man, they are like, hey, we are winning seven, eight games every year. We never win a Super Bowl, but I stay as the GM of the Saints for the next 10 years. That is a win for the Giants and the Seahawks. They're trying to build a team with experience playing in late January,

experience maybe even playing in early February, until maybe they find a guy that can compete with Patrick Mahomes. Because that's the whole question of this entire offseason. Everyone's looking to compete with Patrick Mahomes, where this guy looks like he's going to win 10 more Super Bowl. That's tough to do, man. Like every decision, it's like, oh, I kind of like that move. Oh, they brought in that slot corner for $10 million per?

Buddy, you are competing with Patrick freaking Mahomes. You make elite plays, elite plays only if you're going to try and compete with Vatchamor Homes. I want to talk about the ramifications of the Daniel Jones contract. So Daniel Jones gets the long-term extension, not the long term, but the multi-year extension is essentially a two-year $82 million deal. I like it for the Giants, young team looking to win. The tag on Sequan Barkley, he's now the third running back this offseason specifically that has received the franchise tag. And when I went through the boring slum, slog, I think is the word I first used, of talking through the exclusive and non-exclusive contract. I did not get into a second more boring conversation that I still will get into of why I think

the franchise tag should be banned for the NFL. Brandon Marshall of I Am Athlete, also a former NFL receiver, just went on a long rant why it should be banned and why it was first and stated. I'll summarize that and kind of add my opinions as well. He's essentially saying that this was agreed to at first as the John Elway rule to help teams negotiate bigger contracts with quarterbacks. Like, hey, give us more time to negotiate bigger contracts with quarterbacks and give us more control of some of these big name players. Now, it's been applied to every single position.

They are being fairly compensated in a single year. Sure. Where my gripes are, where my gripes are is what is happening with Josh Jacobs, Tony Pollard and Saquant Barclay, who in 20203 and 2024 will either be 25 or 26, Josh Jacobs is the youngest at 25 years old, is you are saying Jacobs, Pollard, Berkeley, you are going to play for us. And you're going to do it at this much money. and if you choose not to sign this contract, not to sign this franchise tag, you can't play anywhere else. And if you choose to sign this contract and not play, you will get none of the money. And guess what? It's in the prime of your freaking career. That is, in my opinion, awful. Like, it's awful specifically for the running back position. And I think it's going to be more and more

used for the running back position because it is a position that we know ages pretty quickly. Last year, only 16 running backs in the NFL played 400 plus snaps at age 27 or old. That was Daven Cook, Austin Eckler, and Nick Chub, Derek Henry, Albert Mara, Aaron Jones, and Siegel Elliott, and some others. What are some of those guys happening? Derek Henry's on the trade market. Ezekiel Elliott has one of the nastiest contracts in the league. Like, there are teams that are thinking about these players.

It's like, oh, no, we just sign them to those contracts and we hate it. Now, teams are saying, what if we just essentially wage suppress these 25 and 26-year-old guys at the position that is losing value every single year and sign them to this tag. I think what's going to happen is your credit. They don't say essentially. They don't say essentially. They say let's wage suppress.

It's not essentially. That's what it is. And what I will add to that, and I know this conversation is different than saying is Daniel Jones good or is Lamar Jackson's good, but I think it's important to have the conversation. It's like Josh Jacobs and Tony Pollard

and Seekwon Barkley, if they were going to make money from the NFL next year, have to play on these one-year contracts where they make $10.1 million per. They have to. They don't have a choice. It's unlike any of the, other employer ever. They don't have a choice. You have to play or you make no money or you make

no money from the rest of the league. And this won't be negotiated out of the CBA probably ever. And the reason is simple because talking to Brad Spielberger, who's a cap analyst at PFF, and I don't even think you need to be a cap analyst to understand this. The players that negotiate the CBA, a high percentage of them will never get a franchise tag because the high percentage of them aren't that freaking good. Like there aren't like at the tops of the NFL. So when you're putting together bargaining chips within the CBA saying, hey, we'll give you X if you give us why, maybe we sneak in a little Z. A lion's share, a start majority of the players, like, dude, we don't care about the franchise

tag stuff. Like, we just want to make enough money in the four years I'm on the practice squad so I don't have to like, you know, there's other things that other players, a high percentage of the players want that will be used as bargaining chips before enough players at the top of the talent pool are willing to really fight for removing the franchise tag or even like resetting what it means. I just think it sucks, man. It sucks for Sequin Barclay.

It sucks for Tony Pollard. It sucks for Josh Jacobs. Because I do not think any three of those running backs are going to agree to long-term extensions before the season. I think the Giants, Cowboys, and Raiders would much rather give each of those backs 340, 50, 500 touches and say, hey, oh, if your body wears down, you get a season and injury.

We'll see you on the flip side. I appreciate the one year of services. Yeah. It's a little ironic that 32 billionaires are not willing to let these players hit the open market. I'll just leave it at that. But other thing I'll mention on the running back stuff, Pollard coming back, Barkley coming back,

Jacob's coming back. There has been an instance where this has happened. Levion Bell got the franchise tag. And he said, you know what? Put the birds up to the man. I'm not playing. Every game he missed, missed a contract. I mean, missed a paycheck.

And then when he got out of it, ended up getting less money, past his prime. That dude was out of the league a couple years after. Like, you are dealing with finite, finite edges when you play the position that is running back. You are hit the most, you're injured the most, and your prime is the shortest.

You can't make these, like, Josh Jacobs has a quote saying, if I sign the franchise tag and we don't make aggressive signings to make a better roster, I'm going to become a villain. Okay, what villain you're going to become, my king? Like, what are you going to do?

You're not going to play? You lose money. You're going to play, but not get the ball. I don't know what you're going to do. Your hands are tied behind your back, and it's just so unfortunate that this position specifically has to go through it. Now, Evan Ingram also got the franchise tag tied in for the Jacksonville Jaguars. Duran Payne, defensive tackle for the commanders also got the franchise tag.

Those positions, you get paid more, right? Evan Ingram, 11.3 million. Durant Payne, 18.9 million. It's a little bit of a different story. And those positions historically aren't nearly as injury plagued and have longer, you can play longer at those positions. So I just feel for the running backs that got the franchise tag this off season. Yeah, and like the point you bring up is it's, it's not really risky to give a running back to the franchise tag.

It's a one-year commitment, and it's so cheap. It's like the opposite of why you don't draft running backs in the first round because they automatically become one of the highest paid players right when they entered the league. This way, you get them at a discount. And the same thing happens at the safety position, which is why we see teams readily give those guys the tag. Even tight end, like Evan Ingram, 11 million is not that much.

So, yeah, it's rough. And it's, like you said, it's never going to get taken out of the CBA. the two reasons why is a high percentage of the player voters aren't involved in that. And then also the teams love it. Absolutely love it. I relate it to like, why in Texas is the minimum wage for waiters and waitresses $2.50 and they make the rest of their hourly wage on tips. That sounds crazy. You know why? Those restaurants are cleaning up my guy. Those restaurants are like, yes, sir, yes, sir, three bags full. When the people who are paying that are all on board and the ones who are lobbying all these different things and have the negotiating power, it's going to stay. for a bit. I don't care how immoral it may be. That's what you do. That's what you came to the ringer NFL show for. Why the franchise tag sucks and why we shouldn't be giving it to running

backs, et cetera, et cetera. What we will get into after this next break, I want to talk a little Aaron Rogers. There's also been some news that some players are going to be cut your opinions of some of those things and maybe the free agency hits up. But let's do it when we get back. Aaron Rogers, according to Dan Graziano and Deanna Rossini of ESPN, others as well, apparently is meeting with the Jets. The New York Jets have flown on Woody Johnson's private plane to Cali. I don't know if they're going into the darkness or not, we will see, to meet with Aaron Rogers. And the Packers have given, surprising, no one, permission to the Jets to speak with Rogers. I'll tell you what, buddy.

I was an Indy. There wasn't a single person in Indy, whether he's an NFL exec or an intern. The Packers are done. The Packers are done with Rogers and desperate to find someone who will trade for him. The Jets, so desperate, are on Woody Johnson's private plane. What's your opinion of the Jets kind of going all out? for him, especially now that Derek Carr has signed with the Saints, the guy that they were kind of petitioning for

as probably a plan B. And two, do you think that the Jets ultimately pulled the trigger? And is this a good move for the Packers? This is a good move for Rogers. I just need the whole shabang. Yeah, I like it from the Jets angle before the Lamar Jackson News dropped. Now that the Lamar Jackson News has dropped,

that's where I'm turning my attention to. Not because I think that Lamar Jackson, I do think Lamar Jackson is a better player than Rogers at this point, But even if you don't think that, even if you're one of those people that question his ability to pass and you obviously, you know, Aaron Rogers is a good passer. Just the long term, the length of how long you're going to get that. Like how long are you going to get Lamar Jackson? How long are you going to get the top shelf Aaron Rogers? Maybe two years, max.

Maybe three years. You're the Jets. You're Joe Douglas. You've built this young roster. You just had two rookies of the year. you have a really good young roster, really good draft. I think you go for the younger option.

And I would think that when you're trading for Aaron Rogers, you're going to have to give up a first round pick at least. So I don't even think like the compensation is there's like a wide gap in that, besides the long-term contract. I don't know. If I'm the Jets, I go to my plan B right now. I turn the plane around.

I make an excuse to Aaron Rogers and I go fly to Miami, find Lamar Jackson. I do that right now. You are not doing that. You are not turning the plane around. Woody Johnson's PJ out of Cali and saying, Hey, Aaron, appreciate the time. Because how I view it now is Aaron Rogers is your plan B.

But you don't tell him that. You say he's your plan A. And everyone on the plane right now is like, oh shit, Lamar Jackson's going to be available. Well, let's still go all out for Aaron. See what we're dealing with here. What do we got? How is he feeling out of the darkness?

And then also explore how much do we have to obviously send to the Green Bay Packers to get this done as our plan B, just in the same way that they did Derek Carr when they thought he was their plan B. And then when you get back on the PJ, you take that mother effort to Baltimore and you go get your plan A. And you say, hey, how are we doing? What do we want? How can we get this done?

And that way, again, you're not in a situation where it's Rogers or Bus. It's Rogers or Jackson for the New York Jets. I agree that they should pursue Lamar Jackson over Aaron Rogers. Obviously for the longevity. I also think he's a better player right now, like you said. But that doesn't mean to turn the PJ around. I can't do that. It's fine.

It's fine. Who cares? It's Aaron Rogers. Like, who else is? What I want to know is like, what is the market for Aaron Rogers if it's not the Jets now? I don't know. I don't know another team where it makes a kind of sense. The Raiders and the Raiders and commanders don't have the money to do it, basically.

The Saints are out of the market. Carolina, it's hard for me to see Aaron Rogers going to care. I want to mention this on the Raiders front because I think it's been reported here and there like the Raiders are interested. The Raiders aren't interested. I've seen multiple reports. People are like, oh, I think they're interested. I think they're not. Here's why I don't think they are. Josh McDaniels. Going back to the, I just got to keep my job, the leash is significantly longer for Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler, who the GM, the Newland Patriots that came on board with Josh McDaniels, Mark Davis paying them both to kind of take the reins. The leash is longer if they get a young quarterback. period. It's way shorter if they trade the farm for Aaron Rogers, who gets to rekindle flames with Devante Adams and work with Josh McDaniels. If it doesn't work out next year with Aaron Rogers, they're done. Both of them are gonezo. And if you go trade up for CJ Stroud or say you get, here's a longer leash, Anthony Richardson, oh, we're going to need two, three years, just give us some time. Stade and we'll start next year. Keep your job. Keep your job. Keep your job. You continue to kick the can. And next thing you know, the Raiders haven't gotten to. to the playoffs in five years, but Jackson Daniels and Dave Seekler are still there because they're

waiting for this turn and waiting for this opportunity. Anthony Richardson hit his stride or whatever it may be. Rogers, you trade for him. He doesn't work out. You win seven games next year. Good night. Good night. I don't know where you ended up, but it's not going to be here.

The only good thing is that Mark Davis commits even more money to someone else. And all of a sudden, you still can't fire you. You still can't afford to fire you. Oh, man. I didn't think of it like that. I'm playing chess. Mark Davis went as far as to cutting his bowl cut because he's such a fucking, he's in such a, what is that

when you're losing a lot of bets or you're just in a slump right now. Mark Davis is in a massive slump and he's, the reason he's in his slump is like, I know my dad likes but Gruden, we'll bring in Gruden. Oh no. Then he's like, all right, I'm going to just go get a package deal. We're going to get a new GM, new coach, same thing.

They're going to be friends. It's going to be great because obviously Mike Mayock and Gruden. I don't think we're great. I don't think they had the same companionship that this new duo does in Ziegler-McDaniels. Another miss, in my opinion. I mean, Josh McDaniels has one of the worst coaching records in the NFL ever since he got caught cheating. Like, it is bad for McDaniels.

We'll see how long that leash goes. I think they ultimately go young quarterback, though. Are you saying the, are you saying him cutting off the bowl cut was his version of like putting on a rally cap? He turned it inside out. You shave off the bowl cut. You're saying, hey, I got to figure it out, dude. I got to figure it.

It's like when I shave down the stash. It's growing back now and we're getting back into our groove. But I shave down the stash because we needed to reset. We need to find ourselves. You rebuild. You're in rebuilding mode. We need to rebuild the same. thing from the ground up. We've made a lot of bad decision. It's time to bounce back. You can't

bounce back, period. Stefan knows this. You know this. Everyone knows this. You can't bounce back with a bull cut. That's a fact. Name someone who's bounced back with the bull cut. You're in a slump of as long as the bull cut exists. All right, let's close this off. I know we were going to talk Rogers. There are some names being rumored that are going to be released. I just want to know if any of these excite you because I think a lot of people get excited by players being released and the free agent pool, the free agent talent pool getting upgraded. Donovan Smith, opposite tackle for the box is going to be released or if not has already been released. Eric Kendrick's lineback for the Vikings expected to be released.

Bud Dupree, edge defender from the Tennessee Titans, Frank Clark of the Kansas Chiefs, Leonard Floyd, Robbie Anderson, the receiver for the Cardinals, Damien Wilson. Michael Thomas, question mark, exclamation point. It hasn't been reported that he's going to be released, but the way his contract is structured, I think it's all signs point to him being a free agent. Any of those players excite you? Is there any treadlets on any of those tires? Some of those names.

Like Donovan Smith is a. he's kind of a, it's a weird one because he might have just been, you know, kind of mailing it in last year like most of the bucks did after they started losing. I thought he was a decent player before then. I think he could be a decent player again. He's still relatively young. A team like the Chiefs, I don't know. It would make sense for them.

I mean, there's a reason why these guys make it a free agency. I think we hype up these guys just because we recognize their name, like a Bud Dupree, for instance. He's going to sign with someone. Someone's going to get hyped about him. They're going to be like, oh, yeah, he's going to get nine sacks or whatever. then he's going to play like 200 snaps. So like Robbie Anderson, no. I'm not excited about a lot of these people.

Maybe, maybe Kendricks. I do think Kendricks has some good ball in him. I think he's a good linebacker who could play on all three downs still. I don't know how long that's going to last, but that's the one name, him and Donovan Smith, out of that group that I would, that I think would move the needle a little bit if a team signed. Michael Thomas?

Not Michael Thomas? I was watching some Michael Thomas film last week for, a free agency thing I'm writing, I might be able to run faster than him right now. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop.

Stop. Well, let's see. I guess now that to tie a bow on this, we're going to go into free agency. The tags are done. We're going to see where Lamar Jackson ends up soon. Hopefully, we're going to see where Rogers ends up soon. Hopefully, depends how fast that Woody Johnson private jet is. I'd love to hear your philosophy if you were a team builder, if you were a fitterer or a

Ziegler going into free agency. Because I think a lot of people have different perspectives, right? It's like, don't overspend. I know it's a big one. Everyone talks about don't overspan, don't overspend. The biggest spenders in pre-adency are oftentimes the biggest losers. Some also look at it as bring in serviceable talent, fill out depth at specific positions. I know offensive line is something that people say, go get that and pre-edency,

go get that and crazy maybe. Who knows? What's your approach to free agency? What are the do's and don'ts? What are the things we should be looking out for for teams next week? I honestly think, like, people frame it as something that bad teams get involved in. And it does happen. and like bad teams give away bad contracts.

But bad teams also make bad graphics, and they also make bad trades. And bad coaching hires. And I think we see plenty of teams build smart rosters through free agency, like Buffalo. I know Josh Allen was the big move, but they built that roster around him

in part with free agency. And it was like mid-tier free agents. And I think that's how I would use it. If I was building a team, I would not sign any of these like, you know, top shelf guys. I would not. Unless it was Lamar Jackson.

If it's Lamar Jackson, he makes it a free agency. I'm selling the farm for him. But otherwise, I'm looking for, like, B-tier talent. I'm looking for guys that can be useful. And not much more. I'm not looking for star players. I'm not looking for a foundation. I'm going to use that phrase and I'm going to add to it.

I'm going to go get B-tier talent at B-tier money, hoping that in my system, with my coaches, there'll be B-plus, A-minus-tier talent. I think everyone brings up the bills. I think that that team has been used as the model for how to dip into free agency for too long. It's time to switch. It's the Bengals do. The Bengals went out and got DJ Reader, Von Bell, Trey Hendrickson,

Chedobie Ousier, Mike Hilton. Like they built almost their entire roster by going into freeancy and trying to go get guys that maybe aren't A tier talents, maybe aren't a plus tier talents in their current situation. But you bring them, especially on the defensive side, Hendrickson, Reader, Bell, Awusier. we're going to go get them with Big Lou who in a Rumo and we're going to make them better. And that's what's happened. I think that going and getting B-tier talent, beat your money,

and turning them into A players because your team is better positioned to win and has better coaches or better framework to put them in positions to win, I think that's the move, right? If you're going to go get A-tier talent and expecting them to be A-tier talent again with this new team and this new situation, oftentimes I think you end up overspending and expectations are set too high for this big name, big player. Now, if you want to go get A-tier talent,

they're not going to be on the open market. You're going to go have to trade, right? Like Tyree Kill, A.J. Brown, you're going to have to go trade for these eight-tier talents. Those guys aren't tapping, those guys aren't tapping free agents. Like, you have to go into an assumption that everyone here is B-tier talent. If you are assuming there's a free agent that is a tier talent, you're probably going to end up spending too big.

I would say this is what you're getting at, but I would approach it the same way that I think smart teams approach the draft, where it's buying a bunch of lottery tickets. rather than buying one that you think is going to pay off big. I did like an article a couple years ago. I was looking at how teams spend in free agency. And the two teams we brought up already, the bills and the Bengals were,

or two teams that outperformed how much they spent. And their strategy was, we're going to sign a lot of guys for small contracts. And if we hit like on half of them, we got good value from this free agency cycle. And I think that's the way to approach it. And I think why teams or maybe why fans, media don't view it in the same sense that the draft is a lottery and three and see he's

more like confirmed things is obviously because there's this assumption that oh we've seen him in the NFL we know what he is it is so under discussed how important situation is it with player evaluation man i i've said this before like players don't bust teams bust and situation matters more than like any amount of evaluation you could do for a single player like it is huge what the players asked to do especially on defense man the further you get away for the ball right going from like center out to receiver, center out to, or defense to tackle out to corner, what you're asked to do matters so much more, so much more in terms of how you're going to perform, what the ball production is going to look like at safety or corner, what the

receiving production is going to look at receiver and all that stuff. I think it's so massive that there aren't in free agency a lot of like guarantees. There are guys that maybe did well in one system but would take an adjustment in another or guys that haven't played well, but in your system could improve. So I think that you're right in looking at players in free agency. agency just because they play in the NFL that does not mean they're solved products, right? They're not solved things. Things that are solved in the NFL make a shitload of money and don't test the open market. The things that are like, oh, no, we get it. He's good. I mean, look at

the patron home's contract is, I think the biggest cheat code in the NFL. People want to bring up rookie contracts as cheat codes. You know how it'll be like, oh, you got your quarterback on a rookie contract. That's a cheat code. You know what's a cheat code? I have the best player in the NFL on a 10-year deal. Welcome to the fucking show. I have a guy. I have the best player in the NFL on a contract for 10 years when the cap is going to go up every year, when teams are going to be constantly, constantly paying like Daniel Jones, $8,000 million over two years.

What am I going to be doing? I have Patcham Holmes next year, and the year after, and the year after, and that's what's going to allow the Kansas City Chiefs to sum of the pod. Everyone's going to go in this office and compete with the Chiefs,

not going to happen. Patch of the Holmes. I'm predicting repeats here. It's that early. It doesn't even matter. March, three and chief draft. I'm scooping you. I'm scooping you.

I'm picking them in 2024 already. Okay, perfect. Perfect. Stephen, always a pleasure when we get on the pod, man. I wish we podcast some more. Nora's going to replace me, though, and she's going to be fantastic. This ringer NFL feed is going to be loaded. Herbie fully loaded, 2005 film starring Lindsay Lohan, Michael Keaton and Justin Long.

That's what this feed's going to be. Herbie fully loaded. Big shout out to our producer as well. Stefan Anderson. Tune in as we get into pregnancy, the draft. The slog that is June. I've used slog six times. Might as well go one more.

Looking forward to the ringer NFL feed. Thanks again. Thanks to Stephen. Until next time, Ascale. Dean Louise, Stefan Anderson. The ringer in the phone show.