The Ringer NFL Show - Likes, Dislikes, and Under-the-Radar Picks From the 2018 NFL Draft | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 260)

Episode Date: April 28, 2018

The Ringer’s Robert Mays and Kevin Clark discuss the things they liked (01:40) and didn’t like (10:30) from the 2018 NFL draft. Then they break down the picks they thought went under the radar (26:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is JJ Reddick here to talk to you about the JJ Reddick podcast, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. Currently, I play in the NBA for the Philadelphia 76ers, but you may know me from my previous teams, the LA Clippers, Milwaukee Bucks, and the Orlando Magic, or from my college days at Duke University. Being a professional basketball player, I have a great opportunity to talk to a lot of interesting people, and the podcast is a place where I can share those conversations with you, the listener. On my show, I sit down with athletes, celebrities, and a variety of other special guests. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the JJ Reddick podcast on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark, joined by Robert Mays. Robert.

Draft. Yeah. It's over. Sort of. Don't let people know we're recording this during the seventh round. Fair. Yeah. What would happen?

What would have to happen in the seventh round to just dramatically change this episode? Somebody drafting like a 60-year-old man or something like that? Maybe. Yeah. I mean, that's the only thing that would alter what we're doing right now. A kid from my high school just got drafted, which is a bad sign for the draft. That means it's over. That means it's over.

Yeah. Congratulations, Johnny Townsend. I think I also went to the middle school and the elementary school he went to too. I think. Look at that. Pettigree. St. James. I think, 99% sure.

Anyway, that's a bad sign for how deep this draft is. Robert Mace, we want to talk about the best classes, the worst classes, the picks that we're not talking about, but we'll be talking about in September. Let's start it out with just generally, what do you like out of this draft from a team perspective? I mean, I think it's hard to hate what the Browns did. Yeah. Obviously, they had the capital to do something, and they really improved in the areas they needed to. On Thursday night, I said they won the first round because they didn't screw up to top five picks. Which, by the way, in the NFL, it's no sure thing.

I mean, they could have done any number of things to screw this up, and they at least landed the plane safely. Yeah. I mean, I think that they really did need a quarterback and a playmaker on defense of some sort. And they got both. So I like that. You know, they have another running back now, another weapon. So that's the class I like the most probably.

For me, there were a couple things. Number one, I just wanted to point this out when I talk about things we like during the draft, is that the Texans gave up their first round. pick, obviously, from last year's Watson pick. They gave up their second pick to get rid of Brock Oswald's contract. And it's something where if that Watson pick hadn't looked the way it looked, we would have just been raking everyone through the coals, but literally nobody cared because they got their guy. I thought that was a very funny, there was just no discussion on the Texans giving up their first two picks because Watson worked. And that sort of speaks to the NFL

draft in general, which is it's almost like our friend Ben Lindberg's book. The only thing is it has to work, right? So, uh, I thought that was funny. The Texans won the draft by getting Deshawn Watson last year and having no picks basically for, for two, two rounds here. Now, the teams that actually improve themselves

quite a bit. Okay, number one, I kind of like the 49ers. Yeah, I mean, the tackle that high was interesting. McGlinchie, is it McGlinchie? I believe so, yes. I don't like that last name. Doesn't inspire confidence in it? It doesn't inspire last time.

But no, no, I want to talk about, because we're doing the entire draft, I want to talk about Fred Warner, who is one of my draft crushes, the fast athletic, versatile linebacker from BYU, and Tavarius Moore, who's a defensive back who can do a lot of different things. I think that the Niners are building a modern NFL team. They're going to be able to do a lot of different things. I just, I like, they are getting the athletes that are needed to go wherever the game is going. That's really fascinating.

Dante Pettis is interesting too because I think it opens up their receiving core I think that inside outside they have a lot of different pieces to move around kind of what you're saying Yeah all right Jaguars If there's one team I thought It's hard for me to say the Jaguars got better today

Because the Jaguars won't show the AFC championship game And I don't think they're going to make the Super Bowl But Tavin Brian DJ Chark who I love Just a really great wide receiver And then Ronnie Harrison The Safety Out of Alabama Athletic enough

I mean, comes from a program where you playing a lot of big games, Ronnie Harrison slips to the third round. There's value there. There's value there probably for all of those picks. I think that to add two athletic guys to that nasty defense, especially a guy like Taven Brian, who's huge, 6'5 can move. I mean, that's making that Jaguar's defense better. And then...

They almost have too many defensive linemen. How are you going to get them all in the field? That's a good problem to have, obviously. But, God, they're just stacked and so deep. I mean, if you want to rotate defensive linemen, that's as smart as you can get. That's as smart as you can get. Because it's a fast-paced league. If you have six, seven deep on the defensive line and all of them are really good,

that's how you win in the modern NFL. If Harrison works out for them, I'll be curious to see if they play more three safeties this year. Because obviously they lost their nickel corner, so I think that's one way to combat. Okay, you're going to see the theme. of the teams that I think did really well are just the teams that are building defenses

that can do anything. And so you take another safety, you have already a deep defensive backfield. Jalen Ramsey can do anything. A.J. Boyer is at this point a shutdown cornerback, whether or not that's a product of his surroundings is

a different story, but A.J. Boyer last year played like a shutdown cornerback. And now you have the capability to either have incredible depth that's safety or just have three safeties on the field. I think that's great. And then the last one, I'm sort of, I'm pretty intrigued with what the Cowboys did. Michael Gallup, uh, I like him at wide receiver.

Connor Williams, I think he's probably a good value. And he clearly, he was, he was crying when the Cowboys took him, which in a good way. How do you? In a good way. In a good way. He's from Texas. There you go. He might be from Dallas.

He's in the University of Texas. But then I think he's from Dallas as well. He was crying in a way that I, I assure you was positive, unlike some other people who would cry for other reasons. And then Leighton Vandreche, who is Robert Mase's ultimate draft crush? I mean, I think so. Like, I spent time with the guy. Okay.

So, I mean, that changes things a little bit. You spent time with them. Take me through what Leighton Van derrash brings to the Cowboys. Just athleticism on defense that they desperately needed. I mean, something in the middle of the field, he could pair perfectly with Sean Lee. I mean, just a ton of coverage at that area. And you need that right now. You need two guys that can cover.

You need two, three-down linebackers in the league right. right now, and that's exactly what he is. Okay, what are the teams you like? I kind of like what my team did, to be completely honest with you. Okay, I like what the Bears did, but I didn't want to take that. That's fair. I mean, Roquant Smith is perfect at 8. I mean, it's the exact pick they should have made if Quentin Nelson wasn't available.

And even if Quentin had been. I mean, Smith is a perfect piece for that defense. And then they go get a wide receiver in the second round, which they needed. I mean, that was a position of need after they let Cam Meredith go. and it just seemed like Anthony Miller was super productive in college. Just the guy I know how to play. And then they get James Daniels

who a lot of people expected to be picked in the first round. And he's going to play guard for them, but again, they needed interior alignment. They've patched a lot of holes in the last couple days. There were some people who were saying that Ryan Pace maybe had the best draft

when you consider everything. He's been a good drafter. The free agency stuff has been a disaster, but he's done a really good job of finding guys in the draft. I always thought that maybe, I know that you sort of need a singular voice in the organization, but if the GM cannot handle free agency, just don't let him do the free agency part of it. It's like how Andy Regis shouldn't call timeouts, like you need someone in his ear.

Right, right. He should get whoever the Eagles guy is, the analytics Eagles guy who just tells Doug Peterson what to do in situations. They should just poach that guy. It's not a bad idea. This is the smartest move of the week brought to you by ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire Robert. What do you got? I'm going with Green Bay. Yep.

Moving down four spots to get Jair, to get Jair Alexander, a guy they probably would have picked at 14, a position they wanted, and getting a first round pick next year. I mean, I just think when you're doing anything in terms of building your business, you want to get yourself the most resources possible.

And again, four spots, first round pick. I mean, think about the other trades that happened in this draft. The Raiders got a third and a fifth. to move down. It's just an absolute haul for Green Bay to get the guy they probably want it anyway. Any team that can pick up extra picks, when they have a guy in mind,

they know he's going to be there four or five picks later. I mean, you look at a team like the Colts who just dropped back three spots. They got exactly who they wanted, and they picked up four second round picks for, which have tremendous value. It's a perfect way to build your team. Finding value in getting him

is it's just a double whammy, and it's an exactly perfect way to build your team. Or just understanding that the person you want is maybe wrong. And that's what the nature of trading back is. We don't know what we're doing necessarily. So let's do everything we can to give ourselves a chance to succeed. And again, when you're the Colts and you have so many needs and so many holes, and you're trying to rebuild not only your roster, but what you are as a franchise,

it's the best way to do it. The smartest move of the week was brought to you by ZipRecruiter. 80% of employers who post on ZipRecruiter find a quality candidate. through the site in just one day. Try it free today at ziprecruiter.com slash ringer NFL. That's ziprecruiter.com slash ringer NFL. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. So, do you want to move on to the stuff we didn't like?

Sure. Okay. I got to be honest with you. This is not, there are only a handful of teams I really didn't like. Normally I'm a lot more pessimistic on a lot more draft classes, but I'm willing to listen to basically anything. Let's start with your least favorite draft class, Robert Mace. I mean, it starts with the bills.

Oh, yeah. I mean, the fact that you're moving... I didn't have them a little. They're in a separate category. I mean, the Josh Allen category is its own category. It really does set things in motion in a really terrible way. The other thing I didn't like is Tampa moving back and then getting a non-pass rushing defensive tackle at 12.

Yeah. It's just, I really think it's tough to justify that. I do like that they got Ronald Jones later because he's a player. So that draft overall is fine to me, but I think they really did not get value in the first round. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, I think the Josh Allen thing, at this point,

I want to be embedded in the Bill's QB room. You have Nathan Peterman, you have A.J. McCarran, you have Josh Allen. I have a question for you. If you want to roll out right now and you have one game to win your life and you've got that quarterback room, who are you starting? Is the answer McCarron? Yes. And that's terrifying.

I have a question for you. I have another question for you. If you could not play McCarran in that situation, would you start Nathan Peterman or Josh Allen in this game for your life? I would just snap the ball to LaShawn McCoy every single way. Yeah, I thought about that. Just a wildcat thing. Yeah.

I think that's a smart move. Wow. I mean, it's really rough. Okay. So we are philosophically opposed on the next thing. and it's that I did not like the Giants draft. There's a couple things here. Number one, I think Sequin Barclay has a good chance

of being a productive NFL player. I think he's, I think the tape shows everything you need to know. I think he has incredible explosion. I think he's going to be a very productive player. But I think the we're all in with Eli thing and in a quarterback heavy draft, taking him second overall and not taking even what the Jets were offering, the Colts at three, whatever it is.

Auctioning off the pick, moving back to six, moving back to whatever team calls you with the best package. To force that and say we're all in on Eli who got benched for Gino Smith last year, I just think we're going to look back on this. You know, someone said on Twitter there's going to be a 30 for 30 about the Giants draft. You know, just the fact that they said, oh, we're all in with Eli. That could go south so quickly, dude. Yeah. I mean like October 1st I feel like one of us on October 1st

are going to write a column that's like wait a second the Giants draft was as bad as we thought it was and now here's here's the problem from my perspective they pick Kyle Aletta with the fourth round pick 8808 overall I think Kyle Aletta

if they don't bring in another veteran Kyle Aletta might have to play this year because I think Eli is pretty dang bad I don't think Kyle You're leaving aside So Kyle Luleta is not going to be ready to play this year

He's not going to be ready to play next year Right? If he was ready If he was going to be a starter in 2019 He would not be a fourth round pick So are you What are you going to do? What's your plan at quarterback?

That's my question. Dave Guttelman, what's your plan a quarterback? I mean, I think their plan is Eli The issue is I think they have That's not it. That's not right. You know, it's funny.

There's a, there's a NFL league office thing, a mantra. They say hope is not a strategy, right? Eli Manning is not a strategy because hope is not a strategy. In 2018, Eli Manning is hope.

It is taking a penny and throwing it in a fountain and saying, man, I hope Eli Manning has a bounce back year. I think they have too much talent. I just Google the Giants schedule and got the San Francisco Giants. Give me a break, Google. No one wants a San Francisco Giant's schedule.

I think that they have too much talent on that team to be nearly as bad as they were last year and that's the thing I don't think they're going to be anywhere close to the second overall pick next season excuse me what do you mean? You think they're going to be better? Yeah, I think they're going to be fine

Here's my only thought was that this was some weird tanking thing Oh, this year? Rolling out with Eli Oh, I don't think so I mean they were in I don't think they're going to be in as prime a position next year to get a quarterback. That's all I'm saying.

Hey, have we did. done the annual, if you think these quarterbacks were good, next year's are even better thing? We do that every single year. I don't think that's true this year. That's the problem. But it's not true which speaks volumes about next year's quarterback crew. Because it's a knee-jerk thing for everybody. May 5th

of every year. It's like, wait till you see these guys. And it's always some red shirt sophomore that I've never heard of. And then he gets drafted in the fourth round following year. So, the quarterbacks right now, Eli Manning, Davis Webb,

Kyle Loletta. Did, I've heard some rumblings that the giant staff likes Davis Webb. Then why would you pick the Luleta? No, but it also can't be real. How do they know? I don't. He didn't play last year.

I don't know. They went back and watched practice tape, I guess. At Cal? Who knows? I mean, that's just silly to me. I don't know. I'm kind of angry about this. I don't really know any.

Danny Hyattitz from here as the Giants fan. He is. Yeah. I don't know any Giants fans besides Sam. I don't think. Yeah, it's because we hired all the Eagles fans in the world to work here. And Patriots fans. But other than that, so I don't, I just, I'm angry on their behalf.

Raiders draft. A lot of tackles. Weird. You know, when a team goes for a weird strategy, I, I tend to applaud it. I think that the sort of, Guidepost by which all draft overreactions are judged by is everyone giving an F to the 2012 Seahawks draft that included people like Russell Wilson and even guys like Bruce Irvin and people say this draft is terrible. Everyone thought Bruce Irving was like a ridiculous reach. Yeah, but he turned out to be a decent NFL player.

Immediate draft grades are tough, man. I mean, there's not a ton of value in that. No, I know. I think it's more so about you can learn where teams want to go. Sure. With the tackles, I mean, they weren't said it right tackle. They didn't really have an answer there. And Donald Penn is in his mid-30s.

It makes sense. So you take two tackles, you take a nose tackle in the second round, PJ Hall. Then you go Edge with Arden Key. Sort of mixed reports. That's a good pick. And then pick 140. Mo Hurst out of Michigan. Hurst is the boom-abust pick of the fifth round.

And it's worth it because if he hits, he can't. be dominant. There were dominant plays on his tape at Michigan. You know, Charles Robinson had the reporter earlier today that his tape was a little bit inconsistent. But, you know, to get a fifth round impact player, if he's healthy, if you trust the doctor's enough, that's a big deal. We've seen

what guys at that position can do in the league right now. Just explosive interior pass rushers. Yep. They're more impactful than I think they've ever been. And if you can find one of those guys in the fifth round, it can change your fortunes as a defense. They really needed help in the middle of the defense.

Some people thought that would be a linebacker, but getting two defensive tackles gives you a similar boost. Martavis Bryant. Yeah. Third round. Third round pick. That was the trade, if you weren't aware. He wasn't drafted in that third. He didn't reenter the draft.

Is that a good trade for who? It's a good trade for the Steelers who are trying to get rid of him? Yes, because what year of his contract is he on? It's the last one, right? It's the last one. To get a third round pick for a guy that is in the last year. of his deal was pretty good. Yeah, I totally agree with you.

They also, I mean, they've tried to move on. I mean, he tried to force a trade in the middle of the season. Yeah. I mean, it was at the end for Martavis Bryant in Pittsburgh, most likely, whether that was a trade or whether that was him walking in free agency. Again, to get a third round pick for that is pretty good. It's good value. They were replacing him with James Washington, Oklahoma State.

And then the interesting thing. Third round, Mason Rudolph. Again, people thought he was a first round. round pick. That was one of those. Sometimes we have this sort of Ryan Nassie Memorial. This guy might be a first round pick, buzz, like a week before the draft. Remember when Ryan Nassab was mocked?

He's going like 10th, and then he just, did he go to the fifth round? That was the strangest one. It was like the third, I think. But yeah, I remember all that. That was a very strange night for everybody. That was an altogether lack of quarterbacks. So I guess Rudolph is the heir apparent a year after Josh Dobbs is the heir apparent. But on the other hand, I forgot about that.

Kevin Colbert forgot Josh Jobs' name in an interview last month. I absolutely forgot that Josh Dobbs actually what happened for the Steelers. You bringing that up is the first time I've heard about it in like two years. It was only a year ago. It seems like six years ago. It seems like six years ago. Yeah, I'm intrigued by the Steelers draft. Terrell Edmonds was a draft crush of mine.

I didn't know who'd go at 28, but I'm fine with it. I mean, a lot of people were panning the Steelers' draft. I'm a little higher on it than most people. People think that Mason Rudolph is a wasted pick. I don't know. I mean, Rathesburg could go at any time. Yeah, how is that a wasted pick? There were people who were very angry about this.

I think I was drafted 14 years ago. I mean, it's probably time to get somebody you think can play after he leaves. Hey, did you see what Carri-on-Johnson said? No. Do you want to feel depressed? Maybe. I'm already pretty depressed. So he's a running back draft of the Lions out of Auburn.

Pick 43 overall He said Love love to be in Detroit here I just wish I was alive to watch Barry Sanders That makes me sad Yeah I knew I almost didn't want to tell you That's oh my God I just wish 1997

I just wish I was alive For Barry Sanders Evan were you alive for Barry Sanders? No Our podcast producer Evan was not Was not born either That really yeah That's gonna ruin

my day. Yeah. I'm so old. It's not good. It's not good. All right. What else didn't you like? Bill Simmons didn't like the Patriots draft. Shocking. Are they going to put win at tackle? Is that what's going to happen? I guess. I mean, it seems that way, right? They have two guards. Yeah. By everything I've read, apparently he can do that, but it's still just odd. Teams really... Lived it as a tackle on NFL.com. There you go. So, yeah, it's... Belichick tweaking the tweaking the page. When teams do that, I'm kind of with that on my team. When they drafted

Daniels, I was like, what does that mean? Are they going to put white hair at guard again? Yeah. Jerking around offensive line is not my favorite. Apparently, they're going to put Daniels at guard, but he played center in college. Yeah. So that's not an easy transition all the time. So that, yeah, that is never one of my favorites. Two straight inside

linebackers on day three. Who? The Patriots. One, Bentley and Christian Sam. And Sony, Michelle. Duke Dawson. I mean, I don't know. Belichick's had a lot.

Here's a thing. Here's a thing about any and all Patriots drafts, okay? Belichick has, especially at cornerback, drafts, some real stinkers. The second round corner was a wasteland for a while. Yeah. And so Duke Dawson, I don't know, okay? But here's what I do know. Like, half these guys are just going to wash out.

A couple of them might be cut in training camp or something. And then he's going to figure out the holes that he needs to fill in. they're going to make the Super Bowl. That's just a little FYI about the Patriots drafts. That's exactly right. Everyone gets so upset about the Patriots drafts who missed on this guy. It's like Sony Michelle is probably going to be like fourth in the depth chart in the Super Bowl. He's going to be like inactive.

They have like six running backs. I know. It's so weird. James White. Let me tell you what's going to happen. James White is going to catch three Super Bowl touchdown passes. And Sonny Michelle is not going to play. He's not going to play.

But he's going to. And we're going to wonder why. Yeah. And then this. Christian Sam guy is going to win them the divisional playoff game. Just because. I don't even know who that is. I don't know who the sixth round pick is,

but I want you to know he's going to win them the divisional playoff game. They desperately needed help at that spot. I mean, just overall talent and athleticism, they really needed it at linebacker, period. I mean, that group hurt them at times last season. Yeah, and they were banged up. Sure. I mean, not having Hightower hurts, but outside of Hightower,

you still need other guys. You need at least one more. I'm looking at Christian Sam's Scouting Report Broad chest with tapered waist And well-defined limbs That's what you want man That sounds great

That's Belichick Perfect there it is Belichick well-defined limbs in the three Cone are the two biggest things What is well-defined limbs are? I don't know You know Anderson Silva is The UFC fighter?

Yes I feel like he has well-defined limbs Just very just like insanely long arms Is that what well-defined limbs means I think it just means you It's obviously that I'm looking at his arm. Yeah, I don't think that's what that means. If you just look at his arm, it's like, that's an arm.

Yeah, you can have defined, like, you can have definition in your body, but your limbs are just your limbs. But what is well-defined limbs? Does that mean his forearm is muscular? His hands. Yeah, you can just see the muscles in his hands. It's just a weird description. This is great, this is great stuff.

There's a lot of, there's a lot of gems in these draft profiles. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Christian Sam. Former staff considered playing him at cornerback before he got too big. Doesn't he mean like 250 pounds? That is how Belichick is going to solve the cornerback problem.

This 245 pound guy with 31.5 inch arms, 10 inch hands. He's always one step ahead. That's the next trend. 245 pound corners. We're moving back to it. We're moving back to it, baby. All right, what else didn't you like? I was curious about what the Titans did.

It just seemed like they have a lot of needs and a lot of spots And to draft two more guys to play on the edge when you already have a RACPO and Who's the other guy? Derek Morgan? It just that seems odd I mean I don't know what Rishon Evans is going to do in that defense Maybe they play him off ball, but that team has holes like definitively and to take two guys that are going to be Maybe redundancies with the best players on your team is weird Somehow they went from pick 41 to 152 without a pick

They traded up to get Harold Lambs. entry from BC. He knows Mike Rable. Rable's kid plays him with the BC. So they get rid of pick... That seems like a good reason to draft someone. They give up their 89th overall pick, something like that. So they don't really get a chance for a team that has a huge opportunity this

offseason. They don't really get a chance to bring in the cavalry here. And they didn't do much in free agency either. No. I mean, it was one of those things where, again, made the playoffs, even if they shouldn't, which you can argue. But the fact that they didn't get a lot better personnel-wise is disheartening. It's, yeah.

I trust John Robinson. Yes, I do too. I mean, he's done a good job of building that team, but again, it doesn't seem like they're ready to make. I'm in. Yes, that's right. I'm sorry about that. No, no, no. They didn't go out and they didn't sign, you know, they weren't throwing the huge money out there.

They weren't super active for a team's a lot of government. I like that. Okay. Should we move on? Sure. Okay. When you look at the under the radar picks or even a draft class that no one's talking about that's come September, October,

we're going to say, how did we let that guy go away? Aside from Christian Sam, who we both found out about 10 minutes ago and now we're all in because it was well-defined limbs. Who are you thinking about when you talk about that? I'll start because there's a draft class I really like for the strategy that they enacted. Last week, we were talking about teams that could be this year's Saints. So we meant by that was the team with the quarterback and the coach and the infrastructure, but they haven't really been there, they hit on the draft class,

and all of a sudden they're contenders. You get an Alvin Kumar, you get a Latimore, you get a Ryan Ram check, and you're in. You said the Green Bay Packers had too many holes to be that kind of team. I'm generally with you on that one, but I think taking two cornerbacks with the first two picks, J.R. Alexander and Josh Jackson. two cornerbacks in the top 45 then coming around and picking

I don't know if he was one of my official draft crushes on the pub but I loved Orrin Berks and Vanderbilt it is clear to me that the Green Bay Packers have almost the same draft philosophy that I do that's why you always like their picks I love them it's very clear

No it's they they and the Cowboys and the Steelers Dorsey's Browns now that used to be the Chiefs but I think the Chiefs still have a little bit of that too I mean, it's the Ron Wolf, it's the Ron Wolf tree. Sure. With the exception of the Cowboys, the Cowboys are a little different.

But you look at Seattle, they're in on it. I mean, it's just, I think that there's so, it is so hard to scout personality, drive, ambition. It's impossible because you don't know, you don't, you, you can't, you know, I saw an Interrap Report tweet a couple hours ago about how Nick Saban said you can't, you can't find anything out about a player. until the lights come on, right? And obviously, if you went out and you played at LSU or you played at Alabama or Ohio State, like you've played in big games where you're not going to actually just start puking when you get on the NFL field.

But I think generally it's really hard to project how these guys can be the NFL level. You're getting millions of dollars. You're not in a support system like you were in college. I mean, there are a million variables that will impact how you practice, how you play, how you work out in the offseason. A million of them. And we've seen guys come to the NFL who you thought were absolutely. absolute, you know, self-starters, one in a million prospects who are going to be great, and their personality shouldn't work in the NFL.

That's why I got so angry when you say, okay, not you, but when the NFL says, oh, Josh Rosen doesn't have the personality for it. Well, the NFL doesn't know what personality they're looking for because guys get to the NFL and NFL teams are wrong all the time. They have no idea of Scott. Absolutely. And so my long point is getting to this. You get as many athletes as you can, and then you figure it out later.

That's what the Falcons have done for years too. Exactly. When you start scouting personality and drive and practice, you're going to get a lot of BS from college scouts, from college coaches, a lot of BS. You're going to get a lot of pseudoscience. Oh, this guy doesn't look like the part. This guy doesn't have the personality.

This guy's too smart. This guy's too nice. I know a lot of people who are too nice who succeed in the NFL. And I know a lot of people who are real jackasses who flame out in training camp. So just I would almost go the other way and just not scout personalities at all. It's a safer bet. It's a safer bet.

If you're going to roll the dice, and that's what all of these picks are, is their dice rolls. Roll the dice on traits. I mean, that's the safer way to do it. Exactly. And there are times where you watch a guy. I'm sure these Packers guys are great guy.

I'm not talking about the personality. I'm just saying that the Packers, take a guy like Oren Berks, that's an analytical pick because he's a good athlete. They desperately need an athleticism in that area of their defense. For years, they've really struggled to just stop the pass with their linebacking corps. Those guys are not coverage guys.

They're not athletes, the people they have right now. And to get one was a huge deal. They needed one so badly. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that are the Packers going to be my NFC North favorites? No. But are they going to be... I mean, you wouldn't be crazy to do that.

I wouldn't be crazy. I mean, I think it's the Vikings right now. Sure. But number 12 is always there. Wait, what just happened? Last week, you said they had too many holes to be this year's Saints. Yes, I agree. They have too many holes for one draft to really help them.

No, no, no, no. I'm saying he always lingers. When you have Aaron Rogers, you're always a Super Bowl contender. And that's actually what we got in last year with Drew Breeze, where we had that debate of whether or not the Saints going to the Super Bowl in June or July. I said, when you have Drew Breeze, you were always a Super Bowl contender. Always. You cannot rule them out.

I mean, it's a very good point. I think that Rogers has shown an ability to transcend what's around him more than Breeze. And Breeze still does it to a certain degree. But you're right. When you have one side of the ball that's just set. Like, no worries about it. It's going to be what we think it's going to be. Top five, no matter what, you can get really good in a hurry.

You can become a contender in a hurry because if the other side of the ball just takes a slight step forward, you become a real team. Okay. Orrin Burke's scouting report. I just want this pod. If we just cut everything else in this pod except me reading scouting reports from my phone.com, I would be happy. Well proportioned between upper and lower body. Is that important? Sure.

I think so. You don't want to have skinny legs. What about well-defined limbs? If you have well-defined limbs isn't hard to be proportional? Well, not if you have well-defined limbs upper upper upper body. Arms and leg. Yeah. No, that's true.

Broad back. Great. This is great stuff. Great. He used to be a safety, Orrin Berks. That you like, again. This is great stuff. It's the athleticism.

This is great stuff. I just think it's funny that the weaknesses are all extremely specific football things. Like what? Like, we'll make mistakes in diagnosing that pull him out of position. Like, that's the first weakness on the scouting report. But on the strengths, it's like nine things about his back. Yeah, that's odd. It's just a thing.

I mean, that's what happens. These are weird. All right, Mace. Who's your under the radar pick or team that we're not talking about that we should be? This is kind of cheap just because they had so many picks, so it puts them in a position to be that. But it really feels like the Colts did a lot. Tampa Bay is in that boat, by the way, too. The VIA thing annoys me.

I mean, but like the what does? The VIA pick. I don't like him at 12. I would be really excited about their entire draft. I agree. If it didn't involve him at 12, I'd be more excited. If they took Derwin James. Yeah, that's exactly right.

He's like the exact player. I'd be like, okay, things are getting really interesting now. I like the Colts draft for this reason. They desperately needed just an infusion of attitude and physicality. And that's exactly what they did. Nelson is the player that they needed to change their identity on offense. For years, they have struggled just to be that team in the trenches, and that's exactly who he is, to draft another guard in the second round,

and then all players up front. It was just, we need to get better up front on both sides. That's what Chris Ballard said, and that's what they did. It really does feel like a sea change just for who they are. Because their GM for years played fantasy football with his picks. Well, you know, he had one of the, every GM has different philosophies. And what I thought was interesting with Ryan Grigson was that he did not value good football players. He thought they're drafting bad football players.

He thought the drafting bad, I mean, I've seen it in Orlando with Magic close up. But, you know, he felt like if you have the opportunity to take a guy who can't play football, you just got to do it. Yeah, of course. Did you see the interview with him in Sporting News a couple days ago? Who? Ryan Grigsend. He gave his first interview. Not interesting.

No, it was actually quite amazing. He was just like, listen, I can sleep at night because you're judged by your record, and I had a good record. Wow. It was some very, he took you are what your record says you are to a very, very distant place. In that case, you're not what your record says you are. you are Andrew Luck. That's what you are if you're Ragerson.

You accidentally fell into Andrew Locke and the Jacket Philip Dorset. What a guy he is. Yeah, Ryan Grigson, bad GM. Chris Ballard, good GM. Yeah, fair. Yeah. This was Chris Ballard's kind of shot, I think.

Year one, you kind of slow play it, gauge what you have, everything else. This is the year I think where he really is like, all right, let's do this. Let's change what this team is. Yeah. Okay, well, Robert Mays. Any other thoughts?

No, not really. I was actually, there weren't that many picks that stood out. and be like, why is this team doing this? I think that most teams picked with kind of with their identity, like in line with their identity. Yeah, and I also think I don't want to

I don't want to say this in a broad sense because it's going to come back to bite me. I think NFL teams in general are getting smarter, but I think that there are some teams who, if they're not getting smarter, are so obviously not getting smarter because the league in general is getting smarter. Does that make sense?

Sure. The Giants taking a running back at two. Josh Allen going in the top 10. Those things, because they're a little bit head scratching, illuminate the fact that the majority of teams are now making sound decisions in line with how to play football in 2018. That's exactly right. There are a couple of picks that stand out to me just in terms of like, oh man, that's like interesting and I can't wait to watch that. Goddard going to Philly. Yeah. Perfect. I mean, that's just such a good fit. Did you see the thing about how they jumped in front of Dallas because of that Dallas going to take them and Dallas was never going to take them?

No, I didn't see that. They were just going to take Connor Williams the whole time. I mean, that makes sense. Dallas needs a guy like that. I just love the little, the head games there. We're going to jump in front of Dallas. The division ones are always the best, too. Remember when like the Ravens were afraid that the Steelers are going to take Max Williams? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like those are my favorite ones.

Gotta lock up Max Williams. You got to do it. And the other one I like kind of in a similar mode where we're talking about, like a player going to an offense or a group that is already fun. Yeah. Calvin Ridley going to Atlanta. Yeah, and we talked about that when the pick, happened, really does not have to be a number one receiver there.

No. That's very good. And they can just play with those guys so much. You can move Julio into the slot more if you want to. You can use Sanoo that way. It just opens up their receiving for us so much. I keep going back to the Steve Palazzoa line. This is a draft of number two receivers.

Well, if you have a number two receiver, what's the best thing in the NFL to do for him? Put him next to Julio Jones. That's exactly right. I mean, it's a perfect fit in several different ways. And the other one that I really liked Just in terms of pairing him with someone else in a similar mode Pradley Chub playing with Von Miller is pretty damn fun man I mean that is a game wrecking situation

And as they're losing pieces in their secondary and they're not as complete of a unit anymore You need just high upside like game-changing players Like strip sacks sacks They're not the dominant defense they were So they need players that can change a series I'm ready to believe it I'm ready to believe any projection about this year's

Broncos team. It's so true. Yeah, that's exactly right. I have no idea what people are going to think about them come like July 30th. The AFC West is going to be so weird next year. The same thing is true for both the Chiefs and the Raiders, because the chiefs now, obviously, the quarterback situation. And are the Raiders going to be good? No, yes? I have no idea. I have no idea about any of those teams. AFC North, by the way, every single team is going to have a sort of an error or a young starter this year. Except the guy who's going to inherit the division after the changeover, Mr. Andy Dalton. We've talked about this a lot just in terms of this era ending quarterback-wise

and how we're going to usher in a new one. And it seems like we're getting to that point. Yeah. So, I mean... The Browns might be decent. The Browns and the 49ers are the... Obviously, the Garoppolo thing accelerates everything. And I think that that rebuild is...

It's not over, but it's going to be ending sooner than anybody. thinks. I just generally think that some of the crappy teams, we consider crappy, are going to be a hell of a lot better than we think comes in. I mean, the Giants aren't even, the 49ers aren't even like a secret anymore. I mean, that's just obvious that they're going to be much better. I believe we thought the Browns were going to win like six games this year, seven games. I thought that. Last year. 2017. I think we both discussed them as like a seven-win team. Here's, this is what I think about the Browns right now. I think this is the year we've learned. Is it the fact that they don't have good players or is Hugh Jackson just a garbage football coach.

I think they have enough guys now where it's going to be easy to tell. I am going to with old judgment on that. I have a feeling. I think we both have the same feeling. Okay, that's it for the ringer NFL show, a part of the ringer podcast network. Robert, you fly back to Chicago today. Are you going to just try to, are you going to hang out at the Bears facility, try to meet some of the draft picks? What I'm going to do after I fly home tonight is sleep for like six straight days.

Okay. And then maybe I would be that. And then you're going to go drive to Lake Forest? Then possibly. They're still in Lake Forest, right? Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I'm pretty happy.

Yeah. Like, it's, I'm trying to temper my excitement. I feel pretty good. Like, they could be a real team. Lake Forest has a tremendous rest stop on the way to Green Bay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. There's a, it's one of the overhang ones. Yeah. If you ever been to Chicago, drive underneath it. That's what I'm describing. They all have a sense. 7-Eleven as you drive in? They do?

They have a Panda Express there. Well, that's in the Oasis. Okay. On the way in, there's a 7-Eleven with the gas station. Okay. All the... My eyes are just locked in. What is the plural of Oasis?

Oases? What is the plural of Panda Express? Panda Expresses. Pandas Express. I like that better. That one works. Okay. That's really it.

All right. Thanks for listening.