The Ringer NFL Show - Lombardi’s Conference Championship Reactions | GM Street (Ep. 389)

Episode Date: January 22, 2019

The "No-Call in NOLA” allows the Rams to slip by the Saints, and the Patriots outlast the Chiefs for another trip to the Super Bowl. Hosts: Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. Before you start the show, I wanted to tell you about our brand new podcast called Tea Time. It's a biweekly pop culture show on the Channel 33 feed where me, Kate Hallowell and Amelia Weddemeier, have four minutes in each category to get out our strongest opinions about what's happening in the celebrity world at large. The episodes air every other Friday afternoon, and you can subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to GM Street, part of the Ringar Podcast Network. Tuesday, January 22nd, and the Super Bowl 53 matchup is locked in. Rams, Patriots, and I am joined, of course, by the great Michael Lombardi. Lombardi, how you doing?

I'm great, Trey, but I think the only great thing right now is, can we not have to weigh a certain, can we just put Bill Belichick in the Hall of Fame like right now? Like, seriously, can we just put him in a taking this team to the Super Bowl? He won't get any coach of the year mentions this year because God knows it'll go to Matt Nagy. Oh, by the way, your boy, Mitchell Trubisky's going to the Pro Bowl. People have let me know that on that. He's a Pro Bowl talent. There's no doubt.

I mean, can we just put him in the Hall of Fame right now? Seriously. Speaking of Hall of Famers, I just got off the phone with Broadway Joe Namath, 50 years since Super Bowl 3. And we're obviously going to talk about Super Bowl 53 and everything and how it played out to get us there. But quickly, Lombardi, I mean, you're a guy that, you know, historically speaking, you know all about, you know, these great moments in the NFL. And when you think about Super Bowl 3 and you think about, the proclamation of Joe Namath and the fact that they were going to be blown down that game.

Do you have any memories from that game? You're too young to really remember it. But when you go back and look at it through time, I mean, what that game did for Joe was really remarkable. Because when you look at Joe's career and you look at the landscape of what he did, you know, in that year, he threw for 4,000 yards the year they won the Super Bowl. You know, and then from that point on in his career, he didn't even come close. to those numbers. I mean, knee injuries. I mean, he went on to play two more years,

14 games, but then from that, from 1970 to when he retired in 77, he only played one year of 14 games. And I think by him calling that shot, got him in the Hall of Fame, I mean, you know, would you think a quarterback with has 220 interceptions in his career and 173 touchdown passes would get into the Hall of Fame? Short memory. That's what it is. And I'm not saying Joe doesn't belong there. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that it's remarkable by him calling that shot.

You know, if we put this on Jeopardy, what Hall of Fame quarterback threw for 50% completions had 173 touchdown passes and 220 interceptions? Is he in the Hall of Fame? I mean, Joe only threw, now this is a different game, but Joe only threw one time in his career better than 52.9% completions. He had one other year he threw 52%. 52.5.

Most of the time he resided in 49, 48 completion of percentages. I think Eli Manning might be the second answer in about 20 years when he's in the Hall of Fame. So New York quarterbacks, they're making it work. We got a lot to talk about on this episode of GM Street. We've got to get into all of the big things that happened this week. And obviously, the two big conference championship games. And I just have to point out, you know, Broadway Joe, he said that after he made that, you know, prediction, he went to Coach Eubank afterwards and said, you gave, you know, he was giving him too much confidence that they were going to win the game.

So he blamed his coach. So all in good fun, we have a lot of storylines, you know, that come out of all these games. And the major storyline out of this weekend, Lombardi, and this is what it's being called now. It is called The Call That Never Came. And Sean Payton, after this one, said, I don't know if there was ever a more obvious pass interference call. Obviously, he's going to talk to the competition committee, got off the phone before he went and did his press conference in this game. Of course, I'm talking about the no call on Nekyll, Roby Coleman. It was a third and 10 on the Rams 13-yard line, 149 left in the fourth quarter game tied at 20, third and 10.

Drew Brees tries to throw a pass to the outside. And Roby Coleman, pretty much without, you know, noticing the ball. or identifying the ball, knocks down a receiver for the Saints, and then all hoopla and hell breaks loose from there. So we're going to start at this play because this is sort of the crux of the weekend as far as conversation goes.

So when you look at this play, this third and ten, obviously Lombardi, the first takeaway is this is by the rule, by definition of the rule, and all these Saints players are tweeting out the rule. This was a pass interference call, right? Just from the jump, that's what we're going to say as soon as we see this play happen. I mean, I like to refer to this as the no-call and Nola.

I mean, that's what it really is, the no-call and Nola, because it was two calls, right? So, Sean Payton comes after the game and says, I was told it was pass interference in a helmet-to-helmet. And Tate Fraser, this is the only league of the three prominent football leagues, American football leagues. The CFL, the NC-2A, and the National Football League, soon to have some other leagues coming. but in those three leagues, two of those three leagues would have overturned this call. College football would have looked at it as a helmet to helmet, and they would have made the call. Canadian football would have been able to see it as pass interference and it would have made the call and corrected it. In two of the three leagues, this call stands, and it changes history.

I mean, look, you can say whatever the fuck you want about, hey, the Saints had ample opportunity. They shouldn't have thrown the ball on first down down there. they could have done this, they could have done that. Look, the Saints didn't play great. Neither did the Rams, for that matter. The reality of the call is the guy blew the call. And it wasn't the tuck call because when I got fucked by the tuck call, we still had to go to Pittsburgh to beat the Steelers. We weren't going to beat Cordell Stewart. We couldn't handle a quarterback then. We weren't going to win that. That wasn't a Super Bowl impact. That was a divisional round impact. This was we're going to take our shit to Atlanta and go play in the Super Bowl and you just stopped us. And it's really unexcusable. And when you could say two of the three leagues would have corrected it, that even makes it more, more hard to take. I mean, Sean Payton said two years now, the miracle in Minnesota, the no call in noola. I mean, it's just, it's hard for me to understand. And, you know, with the Saints, obviously, I mean, you talk about the history of a franchise where, you know, things haven't necessarily gone and played

in their favor. You mentioned Minnesota last year. And obviously this same call, you know, in this game with Drew Brees. I mean, he throws the deep ball to Ted Gann, 43-yard gain over Lamarcus Joyner. They get the ball 158 left in this one. They're on the 13-yard line. Two timeouts for the Rams. And we talk about in this program a lot,

and you mentioned a lot about, you know, game management, making decisions. A lot of people are pointing to, you know, Sean Payton's, you know, he runs a slant to Michael Thomas on that first down. So that saves the Rams of timeout. Is there a little bit of revisionist history that can go into this, where if you are Sean Payton, maybe you do run the ball. Is that something to look at as well? Because I've seen a lot of people point to the fact that maybe they do run the ball

and make the Rams use their timeouts in that situation. Well, I think certainly, you know, the first and 10 call calls for a, you know, you could certainly second guess and say he should have run the ball. But I thought he called a control pass. I mean, when you're down there, you're in the headset there, the first thing you're thinking about is, okay, control pass. We've got to get the clock moving here, right? So on first and 10, he calls the control pass and it falls down in front of, and Breeze makes a horrendous, a horrendous throw. I mean, if Breeze just throws a good pass there, Thomas is going to catch. He's going to get the ball to the three, four yard line.

It's going to be close. It's almost going to be a first down. Yeah, it's too low. But he makes a horrendous throw. He makes a really bad throw. And that doesn't excuse the call. It's just that you can't blame it on the call. You blame it on the execution of the call.

So there's two byproducts of that. I mean, you could have easily called a run play and turned around and fumbled it, right? So that execution's a problem there. But you know me, I'm a staunch believer getting the clock moving. I thought it was a safe pass, probably a good call, catch him off guard and see what you can do. So, yeah, you can go back. But Tate Fraser, I mean, look, the reality of it is, is they were beating them all day long on wheel routes. Wade Phillips runs, rushes five, cover one.

He gets picked constantly in the game, gets away with it. Camara had how many catches in the game. It was ridiculous. And this time they just exchanged Tommy Lee Lewis for it and they don't get the call. I mean, I don't know what to say to St. Saints. I mean, the economic impact of this no call is staggering. First of all, for coaches.

You lose out on a chance to make substantial money, right? You lose out on a chance for the city to just have a whole other level of atmosphere within it financially. I mean, the impact is so great. It spreads a cost all over. It's legendary. I mean, look at this now. We're going to call Sean McBey a Super Bowl coach and well-deserved. He got to the Super Bowl.

But there's an asterisk there, right? I mean, this is legacy affects it. And the two guys who didn't make the call, they go back doing their regular jobs. You know, they sell insurance, their lawyers. Nobody even knows who the fuck they are. Like they just go on with life, at least in the tuck game, at least in a tuck game. When I said, we won, Art McNally tapped me on the shoulder and said, whoa, kid, I think you're going to I think they're going to overturn this with the tuck call.

At least they had something in the rulebook. This, they just blatantly missed. Well, let's talk about the rule book because that is the other big thing that came out of here. A lot of people are pointing to the fact that this should be a reviewable play. And I have Bill Vinovich is the head referee in this game. And when he was asked about it, he said, here's a quote. It's a judgment call by the officials personally have not seen the play.

And then another question with a follow-up is like, did the timing in the game have any impact on the no-call there? He said, absolutely not. And then a follow-up question again, you said you sit and you didn't see the play correct. And he said, correct. And they said in this situation, is the play subject to an instant replay review? It is not a reviewable play. So that is now the question.

If you're the competition committee, if you're the NFL, should this be a reviewable play? Should we get into the weeds of going back and reviewing past interference calls? Is that the way to fix this? Is this something that we should do? I mean, because it becomes more and more of a controversy. And like you said, this is, legacies are on the line at this point. Yeah, no doubt. So Canada last year, in last year they had 42 of the 71 challenges for pass interference were overturned. So that's 48 percent, okay? So, you know, all right, that 71 times pass interference was channeled. Now, to me, I would just say, look, hey, coaches, you get a one time challenge, pass interference one time.

Now, if you want to be like Andy Reid and use it in the first quarter on a 12-yard gain, then that's your own stupid fault. You go ahead and do it, right? But if you want to be smart and prudent with it and you want to utilize it, then, you know, don't and wait to the moment that you absolutely needed at a critical point in the game. But I think so I think having just that pass interference can be challenged as part of your challenges. That's really not that hard, right? The second, the second is, is just adopt the college rule on helmet to helmet. If we care so goddamn much about player safety, then why don't we adopt the college rule? I don't like the college rule for helmet to helmet. but it takes a long time for the game to get away.

But it does protect against stuff like this. I mean, there's no flag on the field, and they'll still go up in the box and look at helmet-to-helmet in the college game. Right? So I don't understand how Al Riveron didn't buzz down there and say, I think we had helmet-to-helmet there. We better take a look at that, right? Yes.

I mean, it makes no sense, right? I mean, we're talking about a billion-dollar industry. We're talking about finances that are long. We're talking about legacies. We're talking about shit that makes. matters, you know? And meanwhile, my grandson's Dominic and Leo, will they know that Shaw McVeigh got to the Super Bowl because of a no call? Probably not. It'll be a little asterisk, you know? Just like we don't know that Cho Namath through 50 more interceptions that he did

touchdown passes, he's just going to say he's a Hall of Famer, right? Yeah. It's the same thing. It's all about the legacy. Yeah. It's what we remember. And I do want to point out because, I mean, we are kind of harping on the fact of this no call. We, if they run the ball three times there, then Jerry Goff is going to get the ball back with probably around, you know, 58 to a minute, two, something like that in this game. And no timeout is going to have to go down and, you know, kick a field goal to get this game into overtime. And Goff drives down 45 yards less than a minute. Obviously, they do have the two timeouts. I mean, they almost have a big play with Robert Woods.

And it did seem after the no call, the Saints were sort of stifled and almost it just seemed like the game kind of shell-shocked is probably the right term to use, right? After it happens. I think so. But then again, Tafrasia, then we get another no call. Then we get another no call, right? So Drew Brees gets his arm hit. The ball's never touched. We never really get to see it.

The ball's never touched, right? And there's past interference on the interception. There's no freaking doubt. The guy hits him early, Fowler hits him, and Johnson intercepts the ball. But Johnson went at him. I mean, that was clearly pass interference. So you could say the ball was tip bullshit. You could just go back and watch it.

Just like you could say that Julian Edelman touched that ball. but when you really look at it, you could see the ball never changed direction. You could see his arm got hit. They didn't touch the ball. And since he didn't touch the ball, that's past interference. But these guys were told before the game to keep the flags in their pockets, to only call what you have to call. And they did. Is that a conscious decision if you are the NFL to go into this game and say, we don't want to, you know, have this harp on the fact that we are worried about the officials and the officials are going to be the big story in the game.

We've had so many, you know, moments in the NFL over the past few years, whether you can go all the way back to the catch rule with Des Bryant and move it forward. But there have been so many little moments where you can point to the officials becoming a bigger part of the game. And you mentioned that John Johnson intercepted. Michael Thomas took a dive on that play, right? When John Johnson interceptions it, because he's trying to sell the fact that he is getting, that it should be a pass interference call. But see, all this other shit, Tate Frazier, you're talking about the Des Bryant No Catch, the Tuck.

There's rulebooks in there. There's interpretations for it. These were no calls. Like these were no calls. Those things went upstairs. The catch with Des, these went upstairs. These weren't Super Bowl impactful calls. Like the Deskets, there still has another game left to play.

It wasn't, we're going to fucking, we're going to the Super Bowl where we're staying home. And then the no call on the pass interference. I mean, if you're the saints like, okay, like that's a horrible no call. The ball, they didn't even review whether the ball was tipped or not. they just kind of let it linger. They let it linger. They should have, I mean, every, every turnover is reviewed, right? Well, they should have gone back and reviewed and said, you know what?

The ball wasn't tipped. It's past interference. I mean, how do you not make that? That call was as egregious as the other call. It's just not getting talked about as much because we're so busy talking about this other call. And, you know, it's like ridiculous. I mean, there's two calls in the game that were not made that cost the Saints a chance. And then, you know, they get to go to the Super Bowl.

ball on a 57-yard field goal. God bless them. I mean, a 57-yard field goal. It isn't like they were moving the football down the field on that last drive. I mean, they made a 12-yard gain on one play, and then they kicked the 50, then they threw a short pass for six incomplete. And now they try the field goal with, with, what becomes a 57-yarder, which is remarkable that they made it. But, I mean, that one call there gave them eight, all they needed was 18 yards and they got a 57-yard field goal and they go to the Super Bowl.

So do you think the Saints lost the game? the Rams won. I mean, this is one of those where I'm not sure either team played well enough. I agree with that. But the officials got in the way and it really puts a bad light on the NFL. Those two miscalls were really bad. And speaking of getting in the way, we're going to talk about what Shaw McVeigh said after the game on the no call. He said, football is an imperfect game, which is a nice quote, because obviously this was an imperfect situation the way that it played out. But like you said, I mean, they do come down and they have a guy by the name of Greg the legs or line. And Greg Deleg makes a 57-yard field goal, despite the fact that, you know, Woods

drops the screen pass. It looks like things are not really going to go their way. You know, they lose the coin toss from the start. So the Saints had the ball first. So everything is sort of playing in their favor. The one play that I want to point to, I know that, you know, we've already spent enough time talking about the no call or the non-call or the call that didn't happen. But the fake punt, you know, that the Rams pulled in the second quarter. This is a fourth and five, the Rams on the 30-yard line. It's about 14 minutes or so left in the second quarter. Saints are up 13 to zero.

And we saw the same thing happen last week. Doug Peterson declines a holding penalty with the Saints on third down. New Orleans has a fourth and one. And then they pull the fake. The Rams do it back to the Saints. And that kind of just gears up their offense, gets them kind of going, gets them comfortable in the situation. And then at the end of the day, it leads to them being in a situation to win the game.

So, I mean, the irony of it all there, but just, the confidence in Shaw McVey to make that call, right? That was pretty much, that changed everything in this game because up until that point, it just seems like the Saints were rolling, right? I mean, it seemed like everything was going in their favor. And it was almost eerie that it was so similar to the Eagles game. Look, there's no pass interference calls on punts, right? So when you single, when you single up Sam Shields out there as the gunner, right? Sam Shields, people forget, Sam Shields was been a corner in the NFL, played at Green Bay, really a good player, signed a big time contract, got too many concussions.

retired, came back, kind of like an extra guy there, a good special teams player, but he was a receiver at Miami University, and he could catch the ball. And anytime you single up one of their gunners, I happen to think that was a check. I'm not sure they were going to run that play. I think they wouldn't have run it had they had a double, had they had a double vice on out there. But they saw the single vice because they were worried about the run inside. So they saw the single vice. So Hecker throws the ball on a stop route out there. Now, to me, all you got to do is tackle Sam Shields at the line.

I mean, trust me, the Patriots on their punt protection team, on their punt team, they will fucking jam the shit out of both those gunners, and those gunners will be

down on the ground. They won't be able to run routes. They'll keep their defensive team on the field for all punts and jammed it because they're not going to get beat with special teams trick plays. I mean, that's one thing.

I mean, they're talking about the special team's master going to play. To me, that was, to me, stupid on the Saints part, even though it just resulted

in a field goal, they came down and kick the field goal. The second quarter is where the Saints lost the game. I mean, they have one first down in the third second quarter. You know, they don't get anything going. And the middle eight of the game, they allow the Rams to score. They get the ball back. They get the ball back with 530 to go in the half. They know the Rams have the ball to start the second half. That drive, they get a second, they got a first and 10 at their own 30 yard line, and they lose six, they lose another yard. Then a two-minute warning comes, and they got to punt it back,

and they end up losing the game. I mean, to me, the middle eight is. really, but they were able to play defense to start the second half. And then they come right back down the field and they make a 20 to 10. Things are going good. But then they just can't quite get control of the game. Speaking of control, and I mean, what the Rams wanted to see as far as being able to control possession and time of possession, I mean, it would usually point to Todd Gurley to be that guy. And I have to ask you about this because after the game, Gurley said he was simply sorry,

not injured in this game. But C.J. Anderson has been the featured back. You know, he's almost getting to Robert Orie territory with, you know, these chances. championship runs where if you got C.J. Anderson, he turns it on in prime time a little bit. But Gurley struggled in this game, and he wasn't able to find his footing. And then after the game, a lot of people were in a little bit of an uproar because he posted a Photoshop picture with him and Bill Venevich, you know, holding his jersey up. And, you know, a lot of people making the joke about the officials winning the game for the Rams.

But just looking at Gurley in this game and obviously being able to have a secondary back as reliable as C.J. Anderson, I mean, going into the Super Bowl, I mean, Do you have to put a little bit of a pause on what this Rams teams necessarily is at this moment? Because, you know, who they were and what we expect in the regular season, it was led by Todd Gurley being that offense. And he is not himself at the moment. So is that something to concern yourself with? But obviously, we do have two weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. So maybe there is some time to get him healthy.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know what's going on with Gurley. I have no idea. You know, if you tell me, if you tell me before the game, the Saints are going to run for 77 yards and that it's going to take 40 attempts for Jared Gough to get almost 300 yards and he's going to throw a pick. And you tell me that Gurley's only going to have one catch for three yards. I say, I think the Rams won't win, you know. And add to the fact that, you know, the Rams weren't that great on third down. You know that they were six for 16 on third down, so they're 38 percent.

And they still win the game. But I think the really the biggest issue is it gets overlooked is the Saints' offense wasn't very good. I mean, the Saints only gained 290 yards. they only had 64 plays. They couldn't really get it going in the run game. They couldn't protect well enough really to get it going in the passing game. I mean, Breezes throws, you know, he throws for 249 on his 40 attempts, you know,

and they're not able to get the ball down the field. And I think when they lost, when they lost Hill, the tight end, it really killed them. You know, they don't have Watson for the game. They lose Hill on that screen pass. And all of a sudden, they don't, you know, now they're down really weapons. You know, they got the ball of Camara four times on. they got the ball of Michael Thomas just four times. They took him away.

Kamara had 11 catches, but he had 96 yards, but they needed somebody else. Ginn made the one big play, but they couldn't get enough offense out of anybody else. And I think that's ultimately, at the end of the day, that's what killed him. And, you know, what Teggin does is kind of break the backside of a defense and being able to get that big play, gets the 43-yarder there. And then it obviously leads to the non-call, that situation. And again, we can play out the many factors of whether you run the ball, whether you, you know, try to, you know, knock the clock down. But Jared Goff deserves some credit for being able to come into this game and lead them down to get these two field goals,

one to tie the game to send it to overtime. And obviously, the last one with Greg Gallag to get the 57-yard to win. So as much as all the talk has been about officials, all the talk has been about rules and how they should be applied to this game and how it affects, you know, the legacy of Drew Brees and Sean Peyton and everyone else. I mean, Jared Goff, number one pick, a guy that they, you know, believed in, know, from the jump when they drafted him first overall in 2016. He does what he has to do. He's a young guy, young quarterback, a guy that we've talked about on this, you know, podcast plenty of times about how much you can rely on him in big time situations.

And he did at the end of the day get them in the right spots. And granted, they did have the timeouts. Granted, the clock was on their side as they made that last drive. But the Rams were able to make it happen. And after the game, I mean, Shaw McVeigh was going crazy, right? After the game, did you like that he kind of toned it down? I mean, he was celebrating and all that sort of stuff. And then he kind of locked it down.

and went right into the professional mode of, you know, talking to Sean Payton right there, because it was a tough pill to swallow if you were a Saints fan or if you were, obviously, Drew Bree, Sean Payton, any of those guys in the locker room, because, you know, they said that they wanted to, you know, in 10 years talk about and reminisce about going to the Super Bowl together. And now all they're going to talk about is this, you know, no call, this non-PI call. Yeah, I mean, it's a tough pill. I think, look, I give the Rams credit. You're down 13 to nothing on the road in a hostile environment and you fight back.

They got mental toughness. I mean, and the Rams are good. in all three phases of the game. I mean, the Rams by no means are not worthy of being a Super Bowl team. That's not at all what I'm saying. I think Jared Gough played well enough for them to win. I think that they were mentally tough enough to win that game. They just were fortunate enough to get that call. I'm not dismissing what the Rams have done this season or their talent base or anything about them. I just think to me, this is one of those where it was a close game. We knew it was going to be a close game. It was a field goal game. And, you know, it came down to,

the Saints not getting any calls, especially in the final minutes and in the overtime, and the Rams got them. So, you know, now they get to take on Belichick and the Patriots and we'll go from there. All right, Lombardi, before we move on to the AFC Championship game and talk about the past win over the Chiefs. Let's take a quick break to talk about our sponsor, Kavo. Clean up your remote control clutter in time for the Super Bowl with Control Center by Kavo. Plug in your streamer, sound system, cable, or satellite, even your game console, and Control Center does it all. Control Center simplifies your home theater so you can control everything connected to your TV

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We've got to talk about it, and that was the New England Patriots going down to Kansas. City to take on the Chiefs. Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, taking on Andy Reid, Pat Mahomes. And I got a Tom Brady quote for you. He said, you play on the road. It's going to be tough. What travels is running the ball, playing tough. That's good in any weather, any condition, any environment, any stadium.

That was a big part of our game. And as much as we have talked about the dynamic duo that is Brady and Belichick, we have to talk about what they're able to do with this bunch formation, these big guys that they put in line with Deblen, Dwayne Allen, Rob Grancowski. And it is interesting, Lombardy, in the world of spread offenses where everyone is trying to make everything as far as horizontal and spread the field out and get all these gaps. So gap control isn't as much as a problem with a lot of these defense. You don't have to worry about it. Bill Belichick is going the other way.

He is zigging while they zagging. And he is running it down the throat. And you can see, you know, Sony Michelle, I mean, on that first opening drive of this game, it kind of set the tone for what this Patriots team was going to do on the road. They were going to run the ball. they were going to be a tough up front. And Tom Brady, again, delivers. So just off the basis of that, I mean, what did you see in this game from the Patriots to show that, you know,

they are really a team that's rolling at the right time? You know, they're playing really well. I think the underscore of this game was how well their offensive line played. Shaq Mason, David Andrews, Joe Tunney, the tackles. I thought Trent Brown played really well. And so did Marcus Canada. That was five offensive line, along with Gronk Block. And to me, they were the heroes of this game.

They won't get a lot of credit for it, but they were the heroes. and I just thought that the way the Patriots came out with their tempo, the way they decided that they were going to match it so that if they played base, they ran the ball out of, if the chiefs try to play base, they threw them out of it. They tried to play nickel.

They ran them out of it. They really didn't have an answer for it. I'm not sure what the chiefs were trying to accomplish on defense, especially in the overtime part. You're playing cover two against Tom Brady on three, on two third and tens. It's shocking that he throws the ball in the middle of field when he's 17 for 20 in the first game.

kind of interesting how you know you just didn't play that but I think more than anything is this game was proof that Andy Reid never read the book the gridiron genius because if you read that book you know Belichick's going to take away your best players let's send it to him right we talked about this on the Friday forecast I mean Tyrico has one catch for 42 yards never really can't get him the ball because he's pressed we predicted he was going to be pressed could never find a way to get a ball Travis Kelsey three catches for what 27 yards nothing. Let's go defensively now. You know, no help at all defensively from D4, just he lines up off sides. I actually heard some idiots saying they shouldn't have called off sides. Can you imagine that?

The guy's like in the ball. And then somebody else said, well, Trent Brown was lined up too deep. Get the hell out of you. You line up on the ball. You don't line up on the ball. If it's in legal formation, they'll tell you. That's a joke. And then, you know, D4 does nothing. Justin Houston does nothing. And then to be the biggest factor of the game, which nobody talked about, was Chris Jones, on the stat sheet, Chris Jones has one play. He batted a ball down. That's it. Made no other contributions to the game. Those five players, though your five best players for the Kansas Chiefs, they do nothing in the game, you're going to lose. And you mentioned on the Friday forecast we were talking about Belichick is going to make you

play with someone or use someone that you not necessarily want to use or do something different. So you mentioned Tyree Kill, one catch 42 yards, of course. But Sammy Watkins was a guy. You said Sammy Watkins, let him get open. He gets four catches, 114 yards, no touchdowns. But, you know, it just seemed like this chief teams, and Pat Mahomes had the same trajectory as he did in the first matchup where starts out a little slow. And then as the game wears on, he kind of gets into a little bit of a group. I mean, he plays well in this game, 16 for 31, 295 yards, three touchdowns, no picks.

But these are the first two games, first championship games that both go to overtime. If you look at the overtime rules, Tom Brady gets the ball. goes down, scores a touchdown. So the MVP doesn't even get the ball in this game. And that's been a complaint from people about the fact that we don't get to see Pat Mahomes get a chance to get redemption against Brady. Is that something that you watch that game and feel like Mahomes deserve the chance? Or did Tom Terrific just do it again and win this game outright? Because, I mean, the rules are the rules.

But now people are saying that maybe we should change the overtime rules for big games like this also. It's the chief's job to stop them. I mean, I don't know what more you want to do. There's no why because Patrick Mahomes needs the ball. back. Come on, seriously. I mean, it's your job. You had third and ten, three times, right? Third and ten, three times, and you can't stop them. At some point, you know, that your job is to stop the other team and the rules they called heads they won, right? So they got it. To me, I think the biggest part of this game that no one's talking about that Andy Reid reared his ugly head again that nobody wants to

talk about is in the fourth quarter. Now, you know, bear with me here, Tate Frazier, but the the chiefs get the ball. If I tweeted this out, I, I had the flu on Sunday. I was dying, but I was trying to kind of keep up with the games that kind of rallied back. But on the chiefs get the ball with 332 to get. By this point, I was kind of just watching. I couldn't do any tweeting. So 332 to go in the game.

The chiefs get the ball. Actually, they get it with 326. They take the opening kickoff. They get it out to the 32. So there's 326 to go. The Patriots have all three timeouts. Okay. Now, you know when you take the field, you know Andy Reid, you have the play call.

you say to yourself, look, there's two things we have to accomplish. We need to score a touchdown to get a four-point lead. We also need to make sure there's not much time left on the clock. We need to milk as much as we can and force them to use their three timeouts. Okay, those are the three objectives. So naturally, because you want to milk the clock, the first play should be a run. It should be a run because you want the clock working for you, not, working against you. But if you understand game management and you understand how this part of the

game is so important, you would call around. What does Andy do? He calls a pass. Okay. Incomplete, stop the clock. Second and 10, what does he do again? No interest in keeping the clock going, right? Calls another pass. Gets failed out. Pass interference. Okay? Pass interference on J.C. Jackson. Now he gets to start the drive all over again. Now we can. regroup ourselves. We can now pay attention to the clock management of the game and we can start to get back in a focus. Not Andy. No, no, no. We're going to go to go eat at the buffet line. We're going to go through the line right away, right? How many times have I said, don't be the fat guy at the buffet line and eats fast, right? How many times have I said that? Too many times to me.

No, what's he do? First and 10 throws the ball incomplete. Second and 10, bailed out again. Bailed out again. Okay. He's bailed out again. Now, another pass interference call on J.C. Jackson moves the ball 23 yards. Now he's in, now he's at New England 40. He's at the New England 40. He only needs he only, it's 24 to 21. A field goal ties the game and sends it in overtime, right? But a touchdown wins it maybe. Well, let's work the clock. We're in, we're kind of in field goal range. Let's work the clock. What do we do the next play? Throw it again. Throw it again. Why not, Andy? Let's just have some more incomplete passes. Next place second and ten, he gets the illegal pick.

They get it down to the two. Now, Belichick gets the ball back with 157 to go, by the way, having all three of his timeouts, correct? And now Belichick's mission is to move the ball down the field as much as he possibly can and utilize the time. Now, he throws completed passes. And if Rex Burkhead would have laid down on the one-yard line and not scored, I'm sure it would have made Belichick really happy. But he didn't. And so he can't quite get enough time off the clock. And the chiefs get the ball back with 32 seconds left to go.

And they get a 21-yard pass. And they make a 27-yard pass. They get in a field-goal range and they kick the field goal. So, you know, they don't do a good job. And I think that's really where the chiefs lost the game right there, right at that point. And then they lose the toss. So those two factors to me, nobody will talk about. But game management is so critical.

and how you start the clock is even more critical. We've gotten in this weird situation too where there's the standard practice of game management, which as you were discussing, which is we should run the ball. I mean, we talked about Sean Payton in the situation with the no call. I mean, your first and 10,

you're trying to drain some clock out, maybe you run the ball. But do you think that coaches like an Andy Reid, Sean Peyton, some of these guys, do you think they're overthinking the process a little bit and they're almost like hurting themselves in a certain way because they know what they should be doing, but they're trying to do the opposite

just to be different to kind of throw them off the center a little bit on the defense. Is that what's happening with these guys, or is it a lack of self-awareness with the time management? I think there's such a rush to hurry up and score. And I think that, you know, look, if you really, if you're a coach out there listening to this podcast, I think what you need to do is go online and watch the Patriots drive at the end of the second quarter. The middle eight, I talk about the middle eight all the time. It's the last four minutes of the first half and the first four minutes of the second half. The middle eight is so critical.

But just look at the Patriots. They get the ball with 308 to go in the half, right? Okay. So Belichick, now the score is seven to nothing. Belichick easily could say to himself, look, we'll just three runs get out of here, right? So what does he do? The chief still have three timeouts. He starts with a run.

He gets two yards. Okay. Second and eight. He goes to three receivers. He gets in a nickel. He forces them to play nickel. runs a nickel run, they get nine yards first down. Two minute warning.

Okay. Now he's got the ball of his own 21-yard line. What does he do? He starts the clock. He starts the clock. He's never worried about the clock. He knows he's got plenty of time. He's not in a rush to score.

He's not the fat guy at the buffet line. He's going to start the clock. Two minutes. The clock starts. Second and nine. They don't snap the ball to 119 to go. He gets five yards. Of course, Andy calls time out there thinking he's going to

the ball back. First down, James White, five yards. What do they do there? Do they call timeout? No, they go no huddle. They complete it for 30 yards. Only then do they call timeout. Now there's just 50 seconds left to go in the half, right? New England calls their first time out. They run another shotgun left tackle, a shotgun run. They call another timeout. Then Brady throws the touchdown pass to fill up their set for a 29-yard touchdown. Boom, touchdown. They run eight plays, 90 yards, 241 on the drive, and use two timeouts. And probably Belichick's kicking himself in the ass for calling the timeout at 033 to go in the half.

That's how you use the clock in your favor. That's not. He's not in a rush to score. He stuck a run in there. I could hear him on the headset, Josh, stick a running. Stick a running. He wants the clock to work for him, not work against them. Yeah.

And it's a pacing situation too where we need to write the book, Lombardi's Laws of Time Management. Maybe we can get that together because. I wrote the book. It's called Grid Iron Genius. Nobody in the NFL will read it because they say the Patriots are lucky. Why is he so lucky? He's smarter than everybody. I mean, he's got Zach. He's going to compete against Zach Taylor and Matt LaFleur. It's like it's going to be no. I mean, Tony Romo even knows that he gets it. And you can see him the grin of Tom Brady after this game. They did like a little Instagram video with Tom Brady just, you know, listening to, you know, the bad boy from back of the day like Pete Ditty and, you know, just a little smirk on his face with Rob Gunn Kowski. because, again, like you said, it's more outwitting. It's a game of chess rather than checkers that is the old moniker that we like to say.

I want to talk about third and five. We're on the Chiefs 29-yard line. The Patriots, 54 seconds left in regulation. Chiefs lead this game 2824 at the time. Grancowski, they put him outside, and Tom Brady is just trying and trusting his Hall of Fame Tide in to make a big play for him in this moment. And it is one of my favorite matchups. We got Eric Berry going up against Grancowski.

And he throws it up. Brady gives Grunkowski a chance. He gives his start tied in a guy who has become not as much of a threat in the passing game as he was once upon a time. And obviously we remember that pick early in the game when Brady was trying to throw it to him and they got intercepted by Reggie Raglan. But he makes

this big time throw to Grankowski, trust Grankowski. Is Eric Barry, their best guy matched up with Grankowski? And ironically enough, you look back to that week one loss a couple of seasons ago when Eric Barry played so well matching up with Grancowski and Grancowski gets the best of them. It's like fortuitous, you know, how it flips over for the Patriots in that situation. And Brady takes a chance

Grock, you know, makes the big play there. And the rest is history, as they say. So just looking at that matchup there. I mean, that is just, that is a supreme player. You know, Tom Brady being that Michael Jordan type player to take the chance with his guy, Grancowski. That's his Scotty Pippen. And it works. You know what I mean? It on a big stage. It did. It worked because like we talk about all the time, Tate Fraser. It works because even when Grox covered, he's open. Like, he really wasn't open. You know, he's just got those big toilet seat hands and he catches the ball.

And he's just remarkable what he does. And so, you know, and then I thought the other play, look, Josh McDaniels called a brilliant game. I mean, he had everything going. The offensive line was working so well. But for Sutton, you know, for Sutton not to play one robber or one rat, somewhere where he could pack the middle of the field was a mistake. So even on the third and 10 in overtime, when when gronk was extended outside the formation away from the three by one, Josh was expecting him to change to cover one because he played cover two on the last two third and tens,

and he couldn't cover anybody. And Sutton was like, well, I'm not going to get beat with Edelman coming over the middle again. You know, so I'm going to play cover one and try to trap that route. So he leaves himself open. So the guy's coming down to, but then he doesn't double gronk. and Gromk runs a slant for a first down and the game's over. I mean, there's so many plays on that tape that if the chiefs were better coached, and I mean in situational football, not in fundamentals or technique, I just mean in situational

football, they could have averted it. And for me, this is what keeps Andy Reed out of this winning Super Bowls. He's such a good coach. For him not to have an adjustment to how to get the ball to Tyree Kill is a crime. And he had to know the way they were going to rush the pastor. The other thing I think that's pretty clear about this game is anybody who thinks the Chief's offensive line is filled with pro bowl players, they're crazy. It's never been the case all year. They've gotten away with holding.

They're well coached. But I think you saw on Sunday how a really good team that knows how to attack attacked them. And they pressured exactly like we said they would. They pressured inside out. They forced him to back, Mahomes to back out of the pocket and throw the ball when he wasn't ready. And the times he made big plays when he got out of the pocket, which is when the Patriots didn't contain him. I do want to ask you because, you know, you mentioned the Tucker rule earlier in this podcast. That was the last overtime we could really, you know, point to, it's like a big moment, a turning point moment with this Patriots team.

Matthew Slater goes out, wins the overtime coin toss. Tom Brady goes down and does what he has done so many other times in the fourth quarter and takes a team down and scores to win this game. But is there any strategy that goes into the coin toss, Lombardi? Do you have anything that you would, you know, is Belichick saying something to Slater? like, you know, we need to take tails here, take heads, whatever it may be, because it just seemed very fortuitous that it all worked out in their favor, yet again, just like the tuck rule game. I don't know. You know, I mean, last time we did that, one time we deferred against the Jets, which we lost that game on the coin toss on overtime, you know, it's just, I think it's one of those

things that just lock, you know, heads, tails. It's 50-50 prop, right? So I don't know. I think it's just one of those where you, you know, but I think your mentality is really what it is. I mean, you could clearly see from the Patriots style and the mannerism of what they wanted to do is they were not going to give the ball back to the Chiefs. I mean, that was pretty clear. I think if they had had to go for it on any fourth down, they would have. I don't think they wanted to kick a field goal. I mean, they had the same mentality in the Super Bowl against Atlanta. They were going to kick it. I mean, the one thing the Patriots do better than anything is play complimentary football. And that's what the Chiefs don't do. The Chiefs,

that's what I get pissed off about Andy Reid. He never plays complimentary football. Everybody wants to call more pass plays, more pass, more pass. And I'm I love pass plays. You need pass plays to score. But sometimes you've got to let the clock work in your favor. They never do. Big picture looking at this Patriot season. I mean, you talked about, well, you know, the coaching job that Bill Belichick has been able to do. I mean, they're using, they're doing everything that it seems like football is not designed to do in today's times. When you look at the Rams and the Chiefs being in the main storylines this season with the spread and being able to throw the ball around.

I mean, they draft their rookie running back in the first round, which is, you know, become a little bit of a taboo decision. And Sony Michelle in this game, 29 carries, 113 yards, two touchdowns, has been a nice little chip for them as they've made this run. And you look at Week 16 when they made that, they kind of flipped the switch. You know, they had the Dolphins game. And Tom Brady and that team and that offensive line sort of said that, you know, we felt like our time was running out. So we had to really lock in and make it happen. I mean, what is, I mean, does Belichick? I mean, what happened?

I mean, how do you get this team to completely, that? I mean, that offensive line looks like a totally different offensive line from what we saw from week 14, week 15. And then, you know, the past four weeks they have been playing at another level. I mean, is it as simple as, you know, we got to turn it on because we're in prime time? Or was it something they did with the linemen or formations or whatever it may be? Because teams can't even touch Tom Brady, it seems like. I mean, it's really, they just keep practicing. I mean, one thing I think it happens during the year is your pad level gets high.

Football's a game of pad level. It's always has been, it always will be. Who has the best pad level? Who comes off the ball? Who practices in pads? Now, in the NFL, you can only practice 14 debt times once the regular season starts in pads. The Patriots will practice once a day.

Then once the regular, after that, you get one practice a week during the playoffs. And they practice pad level. And they practice fundamentals. They practice tackling. I mean, the one thing about his team that I think is pretty clear is he is getting better. His team's improved from the time they played in the middle of December until now. They're playing their best football. Now, last year, I couldn't say that.

I didn't think they were playing their best football this time of the year. This year, they're playing their best football, and that's really important. They're coming off the ball. Their defensive line is playing at a higher level than it has in a while, and they're able to control the line of scrimmage with their offensive line. I mean, Shaq Mason's a legitimate big-time guard, and, you know, they were able to control the line of scrimmage. Tuni played well.

They're going to need to do it this week against two really good tackles next week when they played Donald and Sue. but their ability to run and their ability to mix it in there. You know, I'm not even sure Brady played his best game. I mean, I know it was great down the stretch and he made some throws, but I'm not sure it was his best game, but it was the best team effort by far. They have embraced the underdog mentality. I mean, it has been, you know, we saw that last year with the Eagles.

And, you know, as you doubt, it turns into locker room fodder and teams seem to galvanize and come together. And that is what has sort of happened with the Patriots. another weird storyline that came out of this game, and I don't know if you've seen this Lombardi. The NFL is also investigating a laser pointer that was used by some Chiefs fans, apparently in this game,

that apparently led to an interception on one of these plays. So we just have a lot of off-the-field, interesting situations that are going on in the league and a lot of random storylines. But for the most part, you just have to take away, right, from these two games, two great games. Obviously, all the talking points will come out of it, but they both go to overtime.

They both come down to the wire. They both take some big time plays, big time efforts from both teams. And at the end of the day, we're going to get possibly the new guard with the Shaw McVeigh and this Rams team, a team that invested a lot of money this offseason to bring in some talented guys to try to make a Super Bowl run. They were right. They made it. They're in the Super Bowl now.

And then you have the Bill Belichick, Tom Brady dynasty that seems like, you know, it will never end. I mean, this is not Rome. I mean, this is Rome if it was still the world power that you would imagine it could be, I guess. But, I mean, Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, there, there is no end. to this inside at this point. And Tom Brady seems like he's ready to roll and get ready for the Super Bowl. And Super Bowl 53 in Atlanta, we are very excited to see how that will play out.

Yeah, I mean, I'm really excited for the game. I think Patriots are playing their best football of the year. The Rams are really a good team. It'll be a hard matchup for the Patriots, especially if Gurley gets going, which we can talk about next week. But it clearly is. It's fun. And I mean, look, the Patriots, the thing that's proven out is they, they may not be the most talented team, but they have the best culture, and culture always wins. And if Andy would read Gridiron, I think he would be a better coach. Well, we got to get his mailing address, and we'll get him a copy of that as soon as possible. Quickly, before we get out of here, I want to ask you about a report that came out.

Apparently, this is the current Super Bowl champions, the Eagles. There was a report that Carson Wentz, this is from inside sources within the locker room. Carson Wentz is a quote-unquote, you know, pre-Madana. there's been some problems, yada, yada, yada. All this stuff sort of came out. And as they're trying to figure out this Nick Foll situation, I mean, how much stock do you take into these reports that come out? And, you know, after you lose a tough game like they lost,

I mean, is this sort of throw it away and we'll deal with it in April if you're, you know, within that organization? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, you know, they rallied right behind them. I saw that, you know, I saw Kelsey come right out and say it. I mean, look, you know, one thing you know for certain is the team, there has to be team like each other. I think no team that's ever won a title didn't like each other.

Last year's team, they all liked each other. They all of a sudden they don't like them this year. It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. I mean, the narrative doesn't fit. Last year, they were depressed that he had a, that he wasn't there. So, you know, where is this story coming from? I don't know. To me, it's a no story.

I think it's one of those where if they didn't like Wince, then, you know, that would have been the case. Has Wynch changed? I don't know. They couldn't wait to get him back on the field. You know, people have such short memories. I mean, after the first two weeks of the season, I mean, if Wince would have been in a sling, you know, in a cast, they would have wanted them to play in a game. I mean, seriously, they just put them in a cast, they would have played them. They were so desperate to get them back on the field.

So, you know, it's just, look, the one thing you got to deal with is all the distractions. It's like the distraction of Belichick and Brady. Brady hates Belichick. Belichick hates. No, they both want to win. They both want to win. Do they have social events? Do they play pinnuckle every day?

You know, do they go out? I mean, no, of course not. They just, they're all there to win. That's the most important thing. And they get along and they both have the same objective, which is about winning, and they get along towards winning. And the objective is obviously now to win Super Bowl 53. We got the Patriots.

We have the Rams. It is all setting up for quite the matchup. We will cover it all here on GMStreto as always. We will break it all down with Michael Lombardi as well. And it will be, it's going to be a great lead up to all this sort of stuff. We have a lot of, I guess not distractions, but we have a lot of things to talk about leading into this game. I mean, you've got the Todd Gurley Marshall Fault comparisons, you know, what will Brady and Belichick do to plot and plan against this vaunted Rams defense.

So a lot of things that will play out. We will get into all the preview stuff here on GM Street leading into the game. Lombardi, this has been fun. I can't believe it. We finally did it. Super Bowl 53. Thanks, Dave, Frazier. Thanks again to Kavo with the holidays over, take back control of your TV with Control Center by Kavo.

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