The Ringer NFL Show - Lombardi's Super Bowl Reactions | GM Street (Ep. 397)

Episode Date: February 5, 2019

Bill Belichick's most dominating Super Bowl win, what the history books will remember from the Patriots dynasty, and what's next for Sean McVay and the Rams. Hosts: Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier Try Hopsy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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To the GM Street part of the Ringer Podcast Network. It is Monday. It is February 4th. And last night, we saw Super Bowl 53, and Bill Belichick told the world we're still here and also here. Michael Lombardi, Lombardi, how you doing? I'm great, Tate Frazier.

How are you, my man? I am doing all right. It was quite the game last night. Super Bowl 53. A lot of thoughts and comments out there and a lot of people were discussing about, you know, the defensive showdown. We got first, in the first three quarters, we saw six combined points in this game. That is the fewest in Super Bowl history. We saw history as well. Tom Brady breaks his tie with Charles Haley. Now he has six

Super Bowl rings. On them, one, two, three, four, five, six Super Bowl rings. And, of course, Bill Belichick figures it out and gets another Super Bowl added to the resume. Lombardi, your first thoughts after Super Bowl 53. What did you see? And how do you feel about this Patriots dynasty? It's official 18 years, six Super Bowl, six for nine overall. What a run for Bill Belichick and Tom Brady.

Yeah, really remarkable. I mean, look, the guy just stopped. He stopped the 11th best offense of all time, held him to three points. You know, I know Brian Flores has now become the head coach of the Miami Dolphins and well-deserved. I mean, Brian's call on the Blitz, the Jared Gough interception to Stefan Gilmore, great play call by a defense coordinator. But this run is truly remarkable. But this game, Tate Fraser, was the first time they've won the Super Bowl where Tom Brady didn't play very well. And it wasn't because of the offensive line. The other Super Bowls that they've lost, you know,

the one against Philadelphia, that was on the defense. The defense couldn't get control of the game. The two against the Giants was really on their offensive line. They couldn't protect Brady. This game really came down to the Patriots having a lot of opportunities offensively, couldn't do much with the ball, couldn't convert on third down, two of 12 on third down. Brady just looked like at times during the game, he wasn't the same player that he's been, you know, whether it was the uncomfortableness, the changes that I think we saw that Wade Phillips did. And I think the other thing that was pretty obvious in the game, the two best coaches on the field, both could get discounts at their movie. in their local hometown for senior citizens because they were the two best coaches, Wade Phillips and Bill Belichick.

And that was the chess match as it was down basically to these two defenses. And as I say, chess is the struggle against the era. And it seemed like both these teams were trying to maybe not make an error to give the other team the advantage. Both defenses were, I mean, to say the least, playing at a premium level in this game. And one of the things that really stuck out was the way that the Patriots decided to cover this Rams team.

So they ran quarters coverage, a matchup zone, had a lot of six one fronts where they had a bunch of linebackers on the line. So that game plan going into the game, I mean, one of the interesting parts of this was Bill Belichick said there were 20-story skyscrapers surrounding their practice field. So they didn't do any public practices. They did a lot of stuff indoors, you know, in the ballroom, things like that, as opposed to doing it outside, because they were worried about the Rams being able to have a spy to sort of see what they were going to deal in defense. They haven't done this that much this season.

McVeigh seemed a little, you know, stunned by what was going on with this defense and what they were running. out there. And then they had these blitzes that they were sitting with High Tower, two big blitzes for him on Goff. And just sort of that game playing defensively at Bill Belichick, what does that say about him? And what does it say about the defensive mastermind that he is to throw that at Goff and that offense? Well, I think what he did was we did exactly what we talked about on GM Street on Friday. Okay? I mean, go back and listen to it. What do he do? He doubled, he doubled Robert Woods. He jammed Brandon Cook's on damn near every play, made him have to work for it. And he pressured Jared golf inside and made Jared Goff feel pressure. He set the edge in both edges in the run game.

I mean, it really was a really good game plan. That is the game plan to beat the Rams. You've got to force Goff to not be able to have time and feel pressure and see different colored jerseys coming at him. And when you make them play faster, this is the game he has. I mean, look, golf is an incredible quarterback when it's in September. You know, I mean, this year in September, he was averaging almost 12 yards. attempt. But the playoff games, golf is under seven yards. In the four playoff games that he's played in his career, he's under seven yards per passing attempt. And this offense, you know, for as good it is, they hide the offensive line. They want to make sure that the offensive line doesn't get

exposed, like we talked about on GM Street. And it did. And when you can pressure this line with power, straight ahead power, going right back into the quarterback's face, it affects golf, it affects their team, And I don't think, I don't think Shaw McVeigh thought that this defensive front would dominate like it did against his offensive line. And one of the things that Tony Romo pointed out of this game, obviously Romo calling the game with Jim Nance. He said it was getting vertical and not falling into the trap of moving sideways with that offensive line and sort of getting baited into those situations where the play action game can work for Jared Gop and make things easier. We see a lot of those plays on first and second down for the Rams offense. They were able to stymie them as much as they could early on in this game. And interesting enough, against the Detroit Lions early in the season with Matt Patricia,

Patricia ran this quarter's coverage and sort of had it blanketed out the same way that the Patriots did it last night. So is there a little bit of, you know, Bill Belichick sees that tape, sees what Patricia does there and is able to see the struggles that they have in the play action game with some of those seam routes being blocked up by having a safety that's dedicated to certain parts of the field. Because last night it just seemed like Goff was able, I mean, Cooks would be where he wanted him to be, but he wasn't able to make some of these throws. And then the one time that he did have the throw there with Cooks in the back of the end zone, he sort of threw a little bit of a duck,

and McCordy was able to get back and make a play. Yeah, I think, look, it was a perfect game plan. It was what he had to do. And we talked about the Detroit game plan. Look, the Detroit game plan, the Chicago game plan, and the Philly game plan, those three teams really understood how to handle golf and how to attack this passing game. As we talked about, if you make this game a drop-back passing game, it's not going to favor golf.

and if you make him hurry and you have to make him feel pressure, it's not going to be good. You know, I talked about this earlier. In September, in his career, Jared Goff averages 10.34 yards per attempt in September, seven games. In the eight October games he's played in his career, he averages 7.39. In the seven November games, he averages 8.87. And in the 9 December games, not counting the playoffs, he averages 6.69 yards per attempt, 16 touchdowns. throws the most interceptions. So when teams have started to figure out what McVeigh's doing,

they can slow golf down. And I think that's ultimately what happened. I think Matt Patricia did a great job. I know Vic Fangio did a great job. And Jim Schwartz did a great job. Three veteran coordinators in the league, they stymied golf. And golf after the game, he said, I will be better because of it was his quote after this. When McVeigh pretty much put as succinctly as possible, he said, I just got out-coached in this game. And you look at Bill Belichick and what he was able to do with some of these fronts. I want to look at the offensive side of the football. So the one drive, we have a 3-3 game in this one.

I mean, you know, Tony Romo's making the little jokes about, you know, it feels like it's a scoring spree as soon as it was tied three-to-three as we were going to break. And we come back, and the Patriots go with the big personnel. And I saw you on Twitter talking about this. But they put the big personnel out there with Rob Grancowski, and they run the same play three times in a row. And eventually they find Grancowski on the seam route or Brady finds Grancowski on the seam route, gets them down to the two-yard line. Michelle punches it in their own first and goal.

That is the one and only touchdown in this football game. But they got the Rams and base where they wanted them to be. They found this package would get them in the base defense that they wanted to see. They kind of used Edelman a little bit as a decoy as they made this final drive. But how important was that drive and how much of a decision was that made by McDaniels and Brady to sort of see that on tape and then make this run to go for the one touchdown to pretty much seal this game? You know, I thought the 21 personnel spread was going to be a factor.

Take two backs, one tight end, and spread it. They went to 22 personnel on that drive and spread it. And it created Wade to have to make an adjustment. He played zone to it because it would have lightened. He wasn't sure what the box was going to be like. So he didn't really have a check for it. So they went to zone. And that's when Edelman was able to run those two routes in the middle of the field,

become wide open. He ran jerk routes in the middle of field. Brady, who really, we know, what Wade did against Brady is very, is very simply. He dared Tom Brady to throw the ball outside the numbers. He said, if you beat me today, you're going to have to throw the ball without breaking routes. He couldn't do it. But on that drive, he did

throw inside routes, which was something that they weren't able to do. The the fourth down pass to Gronk earlier in the game where they turned the ball over on down should have never been thrown. They packed that middle of the field. Grank wasn't open and the ball should have gone outside,

but Brady just wanted to insist on. He likes throwing the ball in the middle of field. and this personnel group allowed them to get to the middle of field, and then that seam route, because we talked about it on Friday on GM Street. Even when Gronks covered, he's open. Throw it, get it out there, let him make it play on the ball. They did. And then I think the most impressive drive of the game is when they were able to run the clock out

with four minutes to go in the game and control the game and score that extra point. Sonny Michelle, their offensive line. I said on Twitter, I think their offensive line should have been the MVP of the game. I mean, what Trent Brown did, what Marcus Cannon did at tackles, what Joe Tuny did, Shaq Mason at Guard, and David Andrews at center are truly amazing. Yeah, and at one point, we thought Johnny Hecker may win MVP for the longest pun in Super Bowl history with the 65-yarder. But you talked about that final drive. So as Goff is going down, they're down 10-3.

They're making a little bit of run at second and 10. And Stefan Gilmore, after the game, he said, I was, you know, just like in my head, I know you didn't throw this right now. You see me looking right at you. Goff throws it up, trying to throw it up to Cooks. Gilmore gets the interception. And as soon as Gilmore gets down and takes the knee and we have about four minutes left in that game, Sony Michelle has a huge run.

And then yet again, Rex Burkhead, they rely on Rex Burkhead to sort of seal this game. It gets a nice first down play there. It makes them have to call a time out and just sort of, you know, chokes them out, runs the clock out ends the game. And, you know, the time management and all things with the Patriots, it just seemed like they were able to get things rolling. Even though it was ugly, even though it was a defensive showdown at the end of the day, the Patriots had the ball in their hand. And that's exactly whether you wanted if you're Tom Brady.

and they didn't even really need Brady. I mean, again, his first pass of the game is picked off, having to throw outside the numbers, just like you said, trying to find Hogan. Roby Colman makes a nice play on the ball, and it gets tipped up and intercepted. But they were able to get the running game going. So did Michelle, 94 yards, a touchdown,

six touchdowns in the postseason, first time since Terrell Davis that he does that. So no matter how you look at this game and the way it may be viewed in history, the Patriots were able to find a way to win, and that's, and as it is, that is history. It is. I mean, look, it wasn't pretty, but it was the most dominating Super Bowl that they've had.

I mean, let's be real honest. I mean, they were able to win the game with their defense, which you never would have thought would have happened, and golf threw the ball up. I mean, we know golf likes to stare down receivers. I mean, we know he likes to stare them down, and we know that if he sees color coming out and he's going to throw the ball quick. I think this opens up a whole set of, in this game,

I think the decisions are where the Patriots are going to do. They're going to have to obviously get a younger player at quarterback at some point. Tom wants to play to 45, but they don't have a backup quarterback. on their team. And then I think the Rams have a decision to make. Do they want to pay Jared Gough $200 million or do they think Jared Gough's going to improve after, is he going to get better? I don't know. I mean, I've never been a golf as the franchise quarterback guy, but we're going to have to see. And I think that's what makes this game entertain. I thought the game was entertaining.

I thought it was a battle between two really good coaches. I think the Rams didn't play well because the Patriots did. That Patriots defensive front, you know, Danny Shelton didn't play much in the second half of the season, but he got in that game and he kicked John Sullivan's ass up front. You know, both their tackles, I thought Wise was really a dominant force on Haverstein, the right tackle for the Rams. The Rams offensive line got exposed for what it is. It's not a very good group. And that's what we talked about.

We said, if you make this line become a dropback pass line, they won't win and they didn't. And it is one of those interesting things, too, where they were getting a lot of, you talked about Shelton. Shelton is one of those guys with McCordy. They go from 0-16 last year to winning at Super Bowl this year. year, which is pretty impressive as far as the dichotomy between those two things. But being able to get the pressure up front on Goff and get him sort of out of the way,

I mean, you have to point to a guy that we thought in this game could come back and maybe be a real, you know, factor at some level. He started the second half and had his biggest play of the game, and that is Todd Gurley. As you're watching that game and you're seeing the limited reps for Todd Gurley, is that something where as an offensive coach on that staff with Shaw McVeyerer, you're trying to press him to get Gurley back in the game. Gurley continues to insist that he's not hurt. everything's okay, but it just does not seem like the same girly that we saw all regular season for whatever it may be.

I didn't think he was bad, Tate Fraser. I thought he looked healthy. I mean, when that run, he had that 16-yard run, he just zapped up in there. He looked like he had a burst. I mean, then they just stopped using them. I couldn't understand it, you know, and so, look, that's going to be one of those things. We've talked about it on GM Street often. I mean, the Rams are undefeated.

The Rams are undefeated when they're able to, when they're able to run Gurley 17 times or more. We know he's the straw that stirs the drink. We know this. I mean, he's the guy that makes them go. And if he's not going to get the ball, then, you know, what are they going to do? And look, their defense play well. If I would have told you before the game, the Patriots are going to score 13 points. They're going to turn the ball over twice, once on an interception, once on a misfield goal. They're going to also turn the ball over two more times on downs. They're going to have four turnovers and score 13 points. You said, well, they rot the game. And literally, the Rams score three points. And that's just not enough. And as you said, I mean, as great of a game plan as Wade Phillips may have had with a defensive

of the football. Things that just do not go well for the offensive side of the football for the Rams. All right, Lombardi, before we move on, let's take a quick break to get a word from our sponsor. ZipRecruiter. Hiring can be pretty time-consuming. You post a job to several online job boards only to get tons of the wrong resumes. Then you have to sort through all those resumes just to find a few people with the right skills and expertise. Those job sites that overwhelm you with the wrong resumes, they're not smart.

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And Romo at the end, he said, enjoy folks. You're never going to see it again, talking about Brady and Bella. in their sort of situation. Do you think Lombardi, this will be considered the greatest dynasty in football? Because, again, it has been 18 years. And the NFL is not set up for something to be to have a dynasty of this level, of this ilk, to continue over time, despite all the turnover, despite everything out there, two constants, and those two constants continue to win.

And they're not done yet. Yeah, they're not done yet. And look, Belichick keeps getting better at his craft. He loses Brian Flores today. He's going to lose a bunch of other coaches on that staff. Some of them are going to go down to Miami to join Flores. And he'll rebuild. I mean, it doesn't matter who's a lot.

in the organization, he's the constant. And the culture he creates, the ability he creates within the building is remarkable. And their attention to detail on game plan, I think Brandon Daly, the defensive line coach, did a great job in the pass rush game plan along with Belichick. I think it's a true total team effort. I think this is his finest coaching job. He's not going to ever win coach of the year because everybody thinks he's got the best team. But he doesn't. But he is coach of the year to take this team and improve it. And I think it's a little bit like John Calapari doesn't get enough credit for being a really good coach, but his teams are always better in March than they were in November. And this Patriot team peaked at the right time,

and they were able to win games at the right time of the year. And we've got to take their hat off to him, Tate Fraser. I mean, it's really remarkable. It's a great way to close the season, I think, knowing how good they played. And Tom Brady embraced the idea that he was the underdog. He kept saying he was the underdog. Last year, of course, we remember the Philly Special and the fact that the Eagles sort of, you know, fell under that same umbrella of we are the underdog. Nobody believes in us and they were able to come through and get the victory. And Tom Brady and this team was able to sort of follow the same footsteps this season, as ironic as that may seem, looking at, you know, the fact that the Patriots now tie the Steelers

for the record for the most Super Bowl titles and talking about some of the turmoil that we saw last year, 2017, sort of with the Garoppolo situation and, you know, the agent Don Yee and what was going on there and the Guerrero's talk. I mean, all the sort of stuff that was happening behind the scenes. people were pointing to Brady and Belichick and crafts and all those sort of relationships that were going on. It seemed as if, you know, this season, you know, Belichick maybe pulled back a little bit on Brady, wasn't as in his face about certain things. And it just seemed like a great big, happy family.

They were having fun playing football, right? I mean, it was a different feel to this Patriots team than maybe a season ago without all the drama and the controversy behind the scenes. Yeah, no doubt. I think they liked each other. I think that was important. I think the team got along. And I think they bonded as the team became better. and they were selfless.

They really did. They did the things they needed to do to win games. I mean, look, they gave up 265 yards passing to Ryan Tannillo. He had a 155 quarterback rating, you know, after that game, and then they go to Pittsburgh, score 10 points and lose. They lost five games to teams that didn't even make the playoffs, and they go ahead and stop the 11th best overall defense of the history of football, hold them with three points.

It's a tribute to Belichick. It really is. It's his ability to continue this thing and never feel contentment. I mean, look, they lost last year. and come back and win this year. That's unheard of. That doesn't happen. Usually you lose, you tend to fade away, and they haven't. They haven't. And, you know, as a son of Steve Belichick, a man that was schooled and, you know, the Navy Academy and being around a Naval Academy and sort of all those principles that went into that over the year as Bill Belichick is one of those guys that,

you know, reads books from the pre-1960s to sort of motivate himself and see how, you know, the history of all of football and how the things have sort of played out in life, which is all, you know, sort of the allure of Bill Belichick. So as you look, look at a legacy of a coach like that. I mean, are we looking at the greatest coach of all time, Lombardi? It's as simple as that. In any sport, Tate Fraser, in any sport, he's the greatest coach. He never stops. He keeps working. I'm sure tomorrow he'll be working on coaching staff, working on the draft. He'll start back like he never won a game. It's really remarkable. It's a privilege to have been

with them and call him a friend. And I think the guy's, you know, he's the greatest coach in the history of any sport. And I will say, this is a fun little tweet that got sent to me about the Cleveland Brown staff from 1994. And if you look at the names that are on this list, you got Bill Belichick, the head coach, Ozzie Newsom, you got Nick Sabin, Kirk Forinch, Jim Schwartz, Scott Pioly, Eric Mangini, Michael Lombardi.

And is that all played out? I mean, I wish that everyone could have stayed in Cleveland with that staff because maybe we're talking about, you know, eight titles with the Browns possibly. We could have kept that thing going, right? Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think we could have. But, you know, how that goes.

I mean, you know, we got moved the team. Everybody said we're bad. And, you know, life goes on. It's the last team. it's the last time they've won a playoff game in Cleveland. And I said it in 1991. I wrote about it in Gridiron Genius. When I first met Bill Belichick, I thought he was the best coach I've been around,

and I'll still say that. Today, six Super Bowls later, it now looks right. And quickly, we have to mention the Super Bowl MVP, a guy that was an option quarterback playing for Ken State not too long ago, the 232nd pick. And now he reels in 10 of his 12 targets in this game, 141 yards, and named the Super Bowl MVP. And that, of course, is your guy, Julian Edelman.

And what are your thoughts just on Edelman? because again, he delivers in the big moments. It's just a tough competitor, tough kid. I mean, I think he's just unbelievable how, you know, he's dedicated, he works at it, he wants to get better, you know, and I think he gives everything he has. I mean, it's really his competitiveness, his drive to excel, it's, you know, being close to Brady, you know, I think that's what separates them. And, you know, look, a lot of people give him crap for being suspended for four games.

You know, nobody really knows the real story on that. I think the kid's just an incredible, incredible. incredible story, and I think he works so hard. Looking at the two, you talked about Brian Flores. Flores not going to go down to Miami, go to the Dolphins, be the head coach down there. Obviously, had a great game plan in this one, and it works so well against that Rams offense.

And then Zach Taylor, the quarterback's coach of the Los Angeles Rams, a guy that's been discussed quite a bit going to the Bengals. That's official now he's going to go to Cincinnati. So you look at those two staffs, you lose two big guys like that, Taylor on one side, Flores on the other side. What's the first step as a head coach or within the organization to move, move on from it. Is it trying to find a guy right now to go out and replace or is it, you know, decompressed, take some time and then kind of move forward from there as we get

ready for the draft? There'll be no decompress and he'll be right there trying to get the game going. He'll be doing trying to get his coaching staff ready to go and, you know, it'll be on to the next week. I mean, there'll be no doubt about it. And so that's what he'll do. And he'll want to do that all the time. And I think that that's what makes him so great. There's no rest. He's going to get his coaching staff together, going to get ready for the combine, I would say in 10 days, so probably take a little break and then go from there. And I do want to point out, you know, the 33-year-old McVeigh, a young coach comes into this game, has the big stage, goes up against Bill Belichick, a guy that's been there before,

that's seen it. What do you think? And obviously, it's close with McVeigh's grandfather a little bit, and they are in contact. And, you know, they have that relationship and that rapport. What is the main takeaway from a young coach like McVe just to see, you know, what this big stage is? I mean, what is the next step for the Rams? Because obviously, you want to build momentum off something like this.

don't let it hold you back. Sort of, you know, if you may lose, you can always come back and bounce back in redemption, and you just saw that with the Patriots this year. Yeah, I think the next step from McVeigh is to study that tape and just see what Belichick did and understand why he did it and then try to fix your team that way. And I think the next step from McVe is trying to figure out, what is he going to do at quarterback? You know, is he going to resign golf?

Is he going to pay him a lot of money? Where are they going to, what contract are going to give golf? I think that's going to determine the future of his career. I think he's got to feel like, can I get another player to come in here and play as well as goff or do I draft a guy? Do I pay golf or do I understand that if we give golf a certain number, he either takes it or we move on? I think these are the tough decisions he's got ahead of them. And then I also think he's got to say to himself, look, we've got to have a little bit more offense when we play against some of these teams that take away our play action pass. We've got to

rebuild this offensive line, especially in the interior, because we've got to be able to do some different things when people take away our play action pass. Absolutely. Absolutely. And Lombardi, I mean, just a final thought, an overarching thought that you have just on, after seeing the Super Bowl, after seeing the season, this was the year of the offensive explosion. A lot of people pointed the Chiefs, a lot of people pointed to the Rams. The Patriots were able to hold them scoreless in two halves, both in the first half against the Chiefs and against the Rams in the Super Bowl. But is there an overarching theme that you saw from this season after we get done with Super Bowl 53? I think to stay, Frazier, I think it's a bad experience. I think experience and coaching matter.

I think there was no great team. I think the Patriots peaked at the right time. I think some teams peaked too early. I think teams that didn't understand situational football can't win like the Chiefs. And I think this is a league right now that there's a lot of even teams. I think the difference maker, the coaches can really do that, make that more effective. And if you got yourself a great head coach who's truly a head coach, you got a really good chance. That's what gives the Patriots their chance every single year.

But what a great year, Tate Frazier. There was no great team. You know, the Patriots lose week 14 in Miami. They lose week 15. But they come bouncing back and they win the Super Bowl. I said to him a month ago, if you get this team to a conference championship game, you should be coached the year.

He got it to a Super Bowl win. His most dominating Super Bowl win of any of them. And with this team, they may not be the best team. They may not have the best players, but they truly were the best team at the end of the year. Yes, and six for nine, six Super Bowls,

nine appearances in the Super Bowl for Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. That is something unlike anything we have seen in quite some time. And Lombardi, I will say this. I wish that I was sitting across you in the studio. I miss you here on the West Coast. I know that you and Millie are in Las Vegas and hopefully getting back to Ocean City very soon. I wish that we could share some onion rings together. I'll get the order in.

And hopefully soon we can be in the same room and enjoy talking about football again. I would love that. Tate Fraser. I appreciate everything you've done. I appreciate working with you and enjoying our podcast together. And it's been a great two years. And I'm looking forward to whatever the future holds. Absolutely.

And we will continue to keep up. the date here on GM Street. And we appreciate all the listeners this season. We appreciate everyone that kept up with us. As Lombardi made all of his picks on Friday and reviewed all of them on Tuesday. And again, it was a fun year. The Patriots do it again. They are the Super Bowl champion. Super Bowl 53 is wrapped up. Thanks for listening. This has been GM Street, part of the Linger podcast network. Clean up your remote control clutter with Control Center by Kavo. With one universal voice remote, just say what you want to watch. And control center will take you straight there so you can finally get off A-V-Duty and bring the joy back to watching TV.

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